TRANSCRIPT One Bad Mother Episode 431: Don’t Freak Out, But I Don’t Like Reading! with Max Greenfield

00:00:00

Biz Ellis

Host

Hi. I’m Biz.

00:00:01

Theresa Thorn

Host

And I’m Theresa.

00:00:02

Biz

Host

Due to the pandemic, we bring you One Bad Mother straight from our homes—including such interruptions as: children! Animal noises! And more! So let’s all get a little closer while we have to be so far apart. And remember—we are doing a good job.

00:00:21

Music

Music

“Summon the Rawk” by Kevin MacLeod. Driving electric guitar and heavy drums.

[Continues through dialogue.]

00:00:24

Biz

Host

This week on One Bad Mother—don’t freak out, but I don’t like reading! We talk to Max Greenfield about his new children’s book, I Don’t Want To Read This Book!. Plus, Biz is thankful. 

00:00:36

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz and caller: Wooooo!

Caller: Woo!

Biz: Woo!

00:00:42

Caller

Caller

Uh, just a check-in. 

[Biz laughs.] 

I’m on my way to a very, very small bachelorette party for my bestest friend in the whole world, who is officially marrying her partner. And it feels good! To go celebrate that. It doesn’t feel good knowing that I’m leaving my spouse with my two small children, three-and-a-half and twenty-one-months—after he’s been traveling for his uncle’s funeral for three days. He landed back home three hours ago and now I’m leaving. And it also doesn’t feel good—[Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

 —that I missed my ex-brother-in-law’s funeral, who passed away very suddenly. It was very saddening. So yeah. It doesn’t feel good that I didn’t get a chance to support my sister. It doesn’t feel good that I didn’t get to support my husband while he was in Oklahoma for a funeral, and then—which is like an eight-hour flight away from us, so it’s not close. And then I’m gonna just enjoy trying to celebrate my friend tonight. Because she deserves it. And… you guys are all doing a great job. Thanks for the show. Bye!

00:02:12

Biz

Host

I think you’re also doing a really great job. Yeah. I—[sighs]. Aaack! It’s really hard to find that balance. And between where you can give support and—like, kids come into your house and it really can make it incredibly difficult when it comes to… like, how you would support other people in your life if kids weren’t in your house. Y’know. Having—especially if they are really young kids? And we’re definitely still not living in a system in which—[Laughs.] There’s childcare available for many of us right now because of COVID? As well as costs? We aren’t always able to make the time we want to make to support and care for others. And I know that it feels like we have to, but when it comes to… supporting your partner, I definitely understand that feeling. And I want you to know that it is also important that you’re able to stick with the commitment that you were able to make. That’s a lot of different things—your choice to go and support your best friend, I think, has incredible importance to you and to them. And it’s just such a shitshow juggle-fest! But I’m glad that you are opting for some joy amidst all this. So you’re doing a really good job. 

Speaking of doing a good job, it’s thank-you time!

00:03:57

Music

Music

Heavy electric guitar and driving percussion overlaid with “Ohh, oh-oh, oh-oh” and “Hey-ey-ey-ey-ey-ey” lyrics.

00:04:11

Biz

Host

And how apropos! It’s Thanksgiving week! Woo-woo! [Laughs.] Let’s gobble up some thank-you’s, everybody! I am particularly thankful this year. It has been very… sort of centering for me to be able to come on every week and thank all the people that are out there really working very hard to make our lives feel somewhat normal or somewhat safe, in what has been just a shitshow two years. And what I’d like to focus on right now, though, is thanking the people in my immediate life—my life right now!—a weird thing to say. “My immediate life.” My past lives. [Laughs.] Where—that have been making all of this enjoyable and possible. So I am gonna start with—Gabe! [Singing] I am thankful for Gabe! Gabe shows up here every week on the lovely Zoom with me. And makes me sound good, though I’m recording in a bedroom. And has been a phenomenal guest-getter and guest-suggester. And is generally a remarkably pleasant and professional person that makes me so happy. And a really nice guy! You guys don’t know this, but Gabe has been fostering two dogs—not at the same time, recently—which makes me love Gabe even more. And as you all know, Gabe has a Supernatural tattoo, which, y’know. Makes me a big fan. So Gabe? Thank you for everything you are doing! I really appreciate it.

I also want to thank you guys, the listeners, and this community. I am keenly aware of what a privilege it is to be able to have One Bad Mother be my job. And I am thankful that that is because of your support. And… I am thankful for the kindness that you bring to this community and this show. I am thankful that you have been part of creating this space in which you feel safe enough to let me know when I need to be better, as well as feeling safe enough to share with us your genius, your fails, your rants, your woo’s, all of it. It’s… really remarkable. And I really see how remarkable it is. And I appreciate it. And I appreciate you. And I know that we’re at Thanksgiving right now, and that nothing has gotten less complicated, and… I just want you to know that there’s at least one space in which somebody is so thankful for you. And so thankful for everything that you are doing. And to be perfectly honest, that’s exactly where I’m gonna leave this. That, right there. That’s my check-in as well, just how thankful I’m feeling for this community and… for Gabe. And I’ve got a Theresa story later! So I’m incredibly thankful for Theresa. Do not think I’m not thankful for Theresa! But I’m saving that for my genius. So. Okay.

Oh! And I am also thankful to all of the amazing guests who have taken the time to come in and talk with us! Over the last—I don’t know—nine years? Which I think ties in nicely to a great guest we’re gonna be talking to today—thank you, Gabe, for this recommendation and for finding this person! And that’s Max Greenfield, who is going to talk to us about his new children’s book—his debut children’s book!—I Don’t Want To Read This Book!

00:08:16

Music

Music

Banjo strums; cheerful banjo music continues through dialogue.

00:08:17

Theresa

Host

Please—take a moment to remember: If you’re friends of the hosts of One Bad Mother, you should assume that when we talk about other moms, we’re talking about you.

00:08:24

Biz

Host

If you are married to the host of One Bad Mother, we definitely are talking about you.

00:08:28

Theresa

Host

Nothing we say constitutes professional parenting advice.

00:08:31

Biz

Host

Biz and Theresa’s children are brilliant, lovely, and exceedingly extraordinary.

00:08:35

Theresa

Host

Nothing said on this podcast about them implies otherwise.

[Banjo music fades out.] 

[Biz and her guest repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss the weekly topic.]

00:08:41

Biz

Host

This week, we are welcoming Max Greenfield, who is a New York-born actor who you may know from New Girl and The Neighborhood, but who is best known—this may be my favorite bio ever—for being interrupted by his two beautiful children, Lily and Ozzy, as he writes this very bio. Max tries to tell them that this is important and to please live him alone! But neither child believes this, as they are certain that Mommy is the one with the career and Daddy just acts silly on TV sometimes. His debut children’s book is I Don’t Want To Read This Book!, which is out now. Welcome, Max! Yayyy! [Light applause.]

00:09:19

Max Greenfield

Guest

Glad to be here. 

[Biz laughs.] 

00:09:23

Biz

Host

I gotta tell ya, I have to give you the—a proper salute for that bio! That is magnificent. 

00:09:30

Max

Guest

Oh, appreciate it! Thank you very much!

00:09:31

Biz

Host

Yeah! Yeah! I’m gonna assume it’s a true life story.

00:09:34

Max

Guest

Yeah. 

00:09:35

Biz

Host

Yeah. You’re like, “Yeah, didn’t make that up.”

00:09:37

Max

Guest

That’s every day. [Laughs.] 

00:09:38

Biz

Host

That’s every day. Well that leads to our first question, which is—and sorry, spoiler alert!—we already know some of the information. But who lives in your house? 

00:09:47

Max

Guest

In my house, I have my beautiful wife, Tess. Our children, Lily—who’s eleven—and Ozzy, who is six. We have a dog named Joey, who’s anywhere from six to eight, we think.

[Biz laughs.] 

He was a rescue, so it’s… sort of debatable. Sometimes he looks like an eleven-year-old dog. Other days, you’re like, “Maybe he’s really young!” He’s really the all-star of the group.

00:10:12

Biz

Host

Yeah. Of course. I would imagine.

00:10:14

Max

Guest

And then I’m sure there’s some other things living in the house that I’m not really quite certain of. Some bugs and… 

00:10:21

Biz

Host

I always think of that video when I ask this question and we’re talking. A long time—a long time ago. In the year of the internet, there was this video where—and I’m sure it was fake. But a guy had set up a camera in his kitchen ‘cause his cabinets kept being opened. Do you remember this? The cabinets kept being opened and it was really weird so he decided to set up this camera, and… throughout the course of the evening, suddenly one of the ceiling tiles—‘cause he lives in an apartment—sort of shifted, and a woman crawls out and crawls down, gets stuff out of his cabinet, and crawls back up. Now… it was the most disturbing thing ever, but I like to think of that now as, “Who knows? Who knows who else might be in our house.” [Laughs.] 

00:11:05

Max

Guest

I hope there’s not a woman in the attic! 

00:11:10

Biz

Host

There’s a woman in the attic. That’s the name of my biography. Anyway. Okay. You’ve got an eleven-year-old and a six-year-old, and I know that we are here to talk about this book. But this book, I Don’t Want To Read This Book!, ties in really to the six- and eleven-year-old. I have an almost-eight and now-twelve-year-old. So I’m very familiar with the tween action. As it comes into play. How’s that—how’s that going for you? [Laughs.] 

00:11:40

Max

Guest

Yeah. I don’t… the six-year-old’s not there yet, so I’m really focused on him. 

00:11:46

Biz

Host

Yeah. You’re just already giving up on the eleven-year-old because they—you had a—[Laughs.] 

00:11:51

Max

Guest

Well, she’s given up on me.

00:11:53

Biz

Host

Oh. Fair. Fair. You do have a article out where you have publicly shared—in a “Once Upon A Time in Fatherhood” piece—y’know, questioning if you can be a dad and cool. 

00:12:05

Max

Guest

Yeah.

00:12:06

Biz

Host

Yeah! I mean, it’s a sharp turn, isn’t it? From when you’re cool to suddenly you are—you are not cool. How—are you okay? [Laughs.] Are you feeling okay with that?

00:12:18

Max

Guest

No, I don’t feel okay with any of it!

[Biz laughs.] 

00:12:21

Biz

Host

You’ve worked really hard to be cool! [Laughs.] What happened?!

00:12:25

Max

Guest

I don’t—I don’t know. I don’t know. Well, it’s not really you work really hard to be cool. It’s that they perceive you as cool for—they make you believe that you’re cool. For quite a long time. To the point where you’re like, “I think I’m… I think I’m… I think I’m cool! I’m doing this! I’m doing this! I’m really an involved—I’m a present parent! And that’s cool!” And then they turn on you. For no reason! And, uh… y’know? Whatever. I’m fine with it.

[Both laugh.]

00:12:59

Biz

Host

“Whatever. I’m fine. I don’t have to be—"

00:13:04

Max

Guest

“I don’t wanna talk about it.” Yeah, I don’t know. I just… they don’t want anything to do with me anymore. So it’s fine. My son is very impressed by me. And we have a great relationship right now. So. 

00:13:17

Biz

Host

Good. Yeah.

00:13:18

Max

Guest

Take that! 

00:13:19

Biz

Host

Do you ever try? Like, extra hard with your oldest? Like, “You know what? I could chaperone your dance. Would that make everything better?”

00:13:27

Max

Guest

I mean, I’m not trying to chaperone a dance. [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

But, um… yes. That effort is made daily. Daily. 

00:13:34

Biz

Host

Daily. Well, we look forward to your parenting book. On trying to stay cool with your tween.

00:13:43

Max

Guest

I know. It’s too many pages. I’m sticking to children’s books.

00:13:46

Biz

Host

Well speaking of children’s book, I Don’t Want To Read This Book!—I don’t know if maybe a editor or anybody told you, but we’re supposed to be telling our kids that they love reading. This seems—seems way off! With “I don’t want—” You’re just giving them language, Max. I’m not sure—talk to me about where this book came about. Where did it come from?

00:14:09

Max

Guest

Well it’s kind of the exact reason why I wrote the book, was—

[Biz laughs.] 

 —is that it’s based on my own experience as a parent and a reluctant reader myself. But y’know, all of the messaging from both teachers and parents has always been some different way to say, [in soothing voice] “Fall in love with the magic and wisdom, beautiful forests that you’ll find yourself in, and discover what reading can do for you and the people around you, and you will begin to love reading!”

[Biz laughs.] 

 You know what I mean? And it’s always like this… it’s always this messaging of, “You’re supposed to love reading.” And that is definitely not my experience and continues not to be my experience. 

[Biz laughs.] 

I do not love to read. There are books that I’ve found that I’ve thoroughly enjoyed. And love, love, love. But for the most part, I’m asked to read things that I really don’t wanna read. Y’know. I’ll get sent scripts quite a bit, and I gotta tell ya—if I make it through the first ten pages, I’m like, “This is a good script.” If I can read the whole thing? This is—it’s a masterpiece. But so this was an idea—the idea of this book was to give kids who are probably feeling a much different way towards reading an outlet and a voice to articulate themselves! And to say—because, y’know, it comes at a really interesting time. When you’re learning to read, you’re also learning to compare yourself to other kids. And it’s like, “Well hold on. If that guy is really tall, does that mean I’m short?”

[Biz laughs.] 

“And how do I feel about myself—"

00:16:00

Biz

Host

Yes. The answer is yes, Max. [Laughs.] 

00:16:02

Max

Guest

Yeah, but you’re like, “Well then how do I—” But if you’re discovering that on your own, like, how do I then feel about myself? Like, I don’t know. So I feel—do I feel shitty that I’m short? And then with reading, it’s at that same point where you’re starting to learn how to read and there’s the kid that’s sitting two desks away from you, you’re like, “Hold on. You mean to tell me that you’ve read three of the Harry Potter books and—"

00:16:27

Biz

Host

Oh, yeah, that kid.

00:16:29

Max

Guest

“And I… I’m still struggling to get through the first chapter? And I really want to read them! But my—but I’m at a different pace than you.” And—and—and really at that time, it’s so much about that in general. That what else do you have to base your—however you think about yourself and your level of intelligence on? So all of a sudden I’m looking at them. The reading for me is difficult. And I’m thinking to myself, “Not only am I short, but I’m stupid?”

[Biz laughs.] 

And so—

00:17:08

Biz

Host

Max, that’s what elementary school is there for. It’s just to sort you. Sort you right away! Just right away! [Laughs.] 

00:17:14

Max

Guest

Totally! So the idea of this—one of the ideas of this book is to say, “Look! It’s—you might not wanna read this book, and there’s a different way to approach reading than just letting the kids know that it’s something that they need to fall in love with.” And it’s an interesting thing and it gives the kids an interesting point of view of their reading it, but more so, I think, if you have a teacher reading it or a parent reading it, it potentially allows them to articulate something that you might be feeling that you don’t think that you’re allowed to say. And I think these books—especially the children’s books—they’re all conversation starters. So I think this one starts a really interesting conversation with you and your kid. That’s one of the meanings of the book. The other one is just like, this is a really funny, fun book.

00:18:02

Biz

Host

Oh, it is! [Laughs.] 

00:18:04

Max

Guest

For kids who, y’know… might not wanna read the books that they’re being told to read. Or just—they’re having a night where it’s like, “Can we not read—can we just read the fun book tonight?”

[Biz laughs.] 

“Can I get a chance to—"

00:18:15

Biz

Host

“No, we’re reading The Odyssey! Again!”

00:18:18

Max

Guest

Yeah. That’s right. 

[Biz laughs.] 

Can I just act aggravated and read this book for fun? 

00:18:23

Biz

Host

Oh, I will say, as a parent who has read this book to my seven-year-old—it is a—there’s some therapy involved in reading this. If you like to give it a little oomph. We like to give it a little oomph in this house. And I think it’s—it’s very fun. We had a really good time reading it. And Ellis is—Ellis can read. Ellis is not, like… “Oh, I’d really—” His teacher was like, “Y’know, he’s just reading Piggie and Elephant books.” And we were like, “That’s cool. That’s—he’s reading those.” “Have you asked him to read something more challenging, ‘cause he won’t on his own!“ “He’s totally fine—Piggie and Elephant are great books! Why would you not wanna be giving him the choice?” And that is… he was delighted by this book. 

00:19:09

Max

Guest

Oh good!

00:19:10

Biz

Host

Yeah! And I—so I guess I would love to ask about the illustrations. There’s this very cute book who looks very happy on the front. While there’s a sticky note that says, “I don’t wanna read this book.” And then you get to go through this and the words are all illustrated and have motion and have an effect. Like, “The words are all squished together!” And sometimes there’s just one word—y’know. And did you guys get to work together on this, or did you just—or was this one of those magical things where you send it out—[Laughs.] 

00:19:45

Max

Guest

Well I think that’s how it usually works. It’s one of these magical things where you send it out. You just hope that it’s magical. And what Mike did was so incredible and he really brought the book to life in a way that exceeded every expectation that I had ever had. But you’re right. Y’know. The only thing that I was really adamant about was that the book stay very readable. And I wanted it to be a readable book.

00:20:11

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz: [Laughs.] ‘Cause that would—

Max: ‘Cause this is a book that’s —

00:20:13

Max

Guest

‘Cause it’s meant to be read. And I was like, “You could really overpower this with a lot of pictures and illustrations.” And I was like, “I really want it to be fun, but let’s keep it simple.” And Mike just did such a great job. And he knew exactly what words to have fun with and which words to emphasize. And… it really is an enjoyable reading experience for a kid. 

00:20:39

Biz

Host

Yeah. One of my favorite parts would be the list of all the things I could be doing that are more important than reading this book. One? Eating cake. [Laughs.] You don’t know this, but on this podcast we have invented a new form of parenting called “cake parenting.” And that is—if you grew up watching The Brady Bunch or reading a lot of the old children’s books—Richard Scarry, y’know, Bedtime for Frances—people were just giving kids cake all night. All day. All night. “I can’t sleep! Can I have a piece of cake?” “Yes, you can have a piece of cake. Now go back to bed.” So we’ve decided that cake can solve all problems. Right? Kid doesn’t wanna go to school? Cake. Right? And so when I got to this page—eating cake is number one—I thought, “I’m good! We’re good!” And my kid’s like, “Hey, it’s cake parenting!” And I was like, “Yes, it is!” 

00:21:30

Max

Guest

Nice.

00:21:31

Biz

Host

And then we go on to say “eating cake while watching YouTube” and then number three, “Watching YouTube and not eating cake, but truth be told I prefer to be eating cake.” Which is, I think, very accurate for so many of us. But I have to ask—when you’re writing something like this—I mean, you could go off in all directions! I mean, you really could go so many places… how did you manage to keep what you felt was really important in it, versus, y’know. It could be a hundred more pages. Right?

00:22:02

Max

Guest

It's such a great question. And that really was probably one of the hardest parts about writing the book, is… what do I keep and what do I leave out? I knew I wanted to ramp up into the book so the beginning had to be a certain way and it had to just really, really be simple in the beginning. And then I knew I definitely wanted to break down structure in the beginning and just go from words. ‘Cause one of the things—not only was I taking this from my own experience, but I was asking, y’know, my daughter and her friends. And overwhelmingly [through laughter] when I would say, “What do you not like about reading?” They would go, “So many words!”

[Biz laughs.] 

00:22:40

Biz

Host

Books. [Laughs.] 

00:22:41

Max

Guest

So… I knew I wanted to keep the structure of it all with just going from words to sentences to paragraphs. And length in general being a real problem. 

[Biz laughs.] 

00:22:52

Biz

Host

I believe there’s a line that says, “Paragraphs belong in chapter books. Chapter books are for people with nothing better to do.” You turn the page and it says, “Chapter Two: I still don’t wanna read this book.” 

00:23:04

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Max: Totally.

Biz: That is a good joke. [Laughs.] 

00:23:07

Max

Guest

So that—yeah. Then it goes to chapters. And then after that—once I got past that point—you’re like, “Oh, well now I sort of have to… land the plane. Start to land the plane a little bit here.” And there was definitely some stuff that I edited out that I would’ve loved to have kept, but I felt like we kept the stuff that was most important and… and that it also allowed us to really end the story properly. 

00:23:36

Biz

Host

Well—and by “properly,” you mean, “It just ends and the kid gets space.” There’s no—I love that you don’t come back at the end and are like, “Wasn’t that fun? Didn’t you enjoy it?” No. It’s flat-out, like, “Ugh, fine. I know it’s gonna happen. The end!” 

00:23:52

Max

Guest

There was a version in the beginning that I had read to a bunch of those kids who showed up on my front lawn—

[Biz laughs.] 

 —where we did acknowledge that the reader had just read a book. And I quickly realized when I read it aloud to them, that I’m not really sure how they responded to it? But I hated it. And I was like, “Oh, this book can’t be a trick. Or a gimmick. I don’t wanna trick the reader here. I want this book to be accurate to the experience of a child who genuinely does not like to read. Because if that’s true, then as much fun as they’re gonna have reading this particular book? They’re probably also not gonna like it, either.” And… and again, it comes back to what we talked about before—this isn’t for that reason. It’s to become a conversation starter and also to laugh. [Laughs.] 

00:24:45

Biz

Host

Yeah, no! And it’s great. I mean—one of the things that I think was the funniest to Ellis and myself was, we turned the page expecting there to be one more. And it wasn’t! And we both got to look at each other and go, “Look at that! That kid really just doesn’t wanna read this book!” 

[Both laugh.]

00:25:06

Max

Guest

Totally.

00:25:09

Biz

Host

Oh my gosh. Max, thank you so much for joining us. And thank you for writing this book. I mean, we could talk a lot more about the deeper relevance of there being books like this? And we give—we talk a lot about giving kids and parents vocabulary and words and the opportunity to have conversations? And… a lot of the time that has to do with really big stuff. Right? But reading—we are taught to say, y’know, “I don’t like math.” “Yes you do! You’re very good at math!” “I don’t like reading.” “Yes, you do! You come from readers! Read it!” Right? Like, “You just haven’t found the right book.” And this… I don’t know what the discussion is supposed to be after this? But I’m glad that this book offers a fun way into… that discussion. 

00:25:58

Max

Guest

I love that you totally got it. It really means a lot. I so appreciate it.

00:26:06

Biz

Host

Absolutely. We are—everybody, you know where to buy books. But we will link people up specifically, directly, to this book. As well as more information about Max and all of his projects that are happening. Max, thank you so much! 

00:26:21

Max

Guest

Thank you! I really appreciate it, again.

00:26:24

Music

Music

“Ones and Zeroes” by “Awesome.” Steady, driving electric guitar with drum and woodwinds.

[Music fades out.]

00:26:42

Music

Promo

Cheerful ukulele with whistling plays in background.

00:26:43

Biz

Promo

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[Music fades out.] 

00:27:55

Music

Promo

Inspirational keyboard music plays in background.

00:27:56

Biz

Promo

One Bad Mother is supported in part by Bombas. Bombas’s mission is simple—make the most comfortable clothes ever, and match every item sold with an equal item donated. So this holiday, when you gift Bombas to someone on your list? You’re also giving them to someone in need. It is a give-give! I love my Bombas. They have got great Bombas for little feet with stickies on the bottom so you’re not gonna fly all over the place if you’re learning how to walk. I have got some great no-show Bombas. I got some Pride Bombas. They are amazing. Go to Bombas.com/badmother and get 20% off your first purchase. That’s B-O-M-B-A-S.com/badmother, for 20% off. Bombas.com/badmother. 

[Music fades out.]

00:28:48

Theresa

Host

Hey, you know what it’s time for! This week’s genius and fails! This is the part of the show where we share our genius moment of the week, as well as our failures, and feel better about ourselves by hearing yours. You can share some of your own by calling 206-350-9485. That’s 206-350-9485.

00:29:08

Biz

Host

Genius fail time.

00:29:10

Clip

Clip

[Dramatic, swelling music in background.]

Biz: Wow! Oh my God! Oh my God! I saw what you did! Oh my God! I’m paying attention! Wow! You, mom, are a genius. Oh my God, that’s fucking genius!

00:29:24

Biz

Host

Genius me, me! Okay! Guys? Twice now—two weeks in a row—and I even did this while Stefan was gone! Like, this is when this was established—Theresa and I found time to go walk the Rose Bowl. Now this is how our friendship started. Years ago was a—essentially, you guys know this—a blind date. [Laughs.] Set up by our partners. And both of us being like, “Yes, yes, I’m sure we would be great friends. Except we’re really tired and have children.” [Makes garbled noise.] But we started walking and that’s where I told her about One Bad Mother idea and that’s where we realized there was plenty to talk about, no matter how difficult. And it has been a long time since we’ve walked. And we made it so that just one day a week—before we go do our school pickups—we go walk now that the weather’s nicer. And we’ve done it twice, and it’s been so awesome, guys! [Laughs.] [Goofy voice] It’s so nice to see Theresaaa! [Regular voice] It’s been so nice. And the walking is really good for us. And the talking is really good for us. And the genius really is, is that I’m making this a full-on priority? That I will be sticking with. Which is not always easy. So. Yayyy for me!

00:30:51

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

Hi. This is a genius. This is Mindy all the way up in Canada. I heard this on your podcast and my genius is that I implemented it. And I wanted to call to remind people, because during this pandemic I know we all are having a lot of trouble finding a bathroom? Sometimes restaurants don’t allow eat-in, so you can’t have any place to pee, nor do your kids have any place to pee. And somebody said, “Oh, yeah, just keep a little port-a-potty in the back of your minivan or car. You can whip it out wherever you want. And if you’re even more discreet—keep a diaper for yourself!”

[Biz laughs.] 

“And your children. And if they have to go pee, just tell them—you gotta pee in the diaper. You gotta pretend like you’re a baby.” And it works for adults, too!

[Biz laughs.] 

I have had to use this in underground parking lots. In, y’know, school parking lots. [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

So many places. Since you’re running around and you don’t have time. Nobody allows you to go pee inside. Pack some diapers in your vehicle, ladies. And you shall fret no more. 

[Biz laughs.] 

You’re all doing a great job. 

00:32:21

Biz

Host

[Laughs.] I love you! I love you so much. Yes! You hit two—two of our previous genius bathroom-in-the-car-related geniuses. And I am so happy to know—and everyone should feel a little normalized, feel good—that we are all out there doing these things that we’ve shared. The potty in the back of the car? Y’know. Ellis was terrified to use public restrooms. Terrified! So for years we’d have to trudge out to the car if they needed to use the bathroom and then trudge back in, which was odd. And yeah. I can still remember the first time we had that caller call in and say that they peed in their diaper. Peed in a kid’s diaper, because both kids were asleep and they were not close enough to home to make it and they couldn’t pull over to a rest stop because they’d have to wake both their kids up and they didn’t wanna do that when they only had twenty minutes left! I love you guys. I love you! This is—this is exactly right. And you’re doing such a good job. Thank you for reminding us how smart we all are. [Laughs.] 

Failures. 

00:33:39

Clip

Clip

[Dramatic orchestral music plays in the background.]

Theresa: [In a voice akin to the Wicked Witch of the West] Fail. Fail. Fail. FAIL!

[Timpani with foot pedal engaged for humorous effect.]

Biz: [Calmly] You suck!

00:33:45

Biz

Host

Alright. As many of you know, I have children that like to be prepared with information before anything happens. They need to be reminded and you can’t just be like, “We’re going to the doctor today. We’re going on a trip.” Like, obviously. But Raiden has to get some dental work done in preparation for some orthodontal work done. Ack. Teeth are so weird, everybody. But the first step is a consultation with an oral surgeon, and yeah. I fucking hate everything, everybody. Anyway. Stefan is back from their trip and they’re going to be taking Raiden, and neither one of us remembered to remind Raiden that this was happening. It’s, in fact, happening today. On the date of this recording. I am taking the kids to school. We are not five minutes from the drop-off point when I say, “Oh, did Papa remind you that you’re going to that consultation today?” The answer… in a nutshell… is “No.” They had not been reminded. And it was an unpleasant five minutes to drop-off. That’s… all I’m gonna say about that. [Laughs.] 

00:35:15

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

Hey, One Bad Mother! This is a fail. A silly, ridiculous fail. [Laughs.] So yesterday I had a periodontist appointment.

[Biz laughs.] 

I have a little dumb graft that I need to have done, and they asked me when I got in, “Did you fill out the new patient paperwork?” And I said, “Yes, I filled it out online last week when you called me.” And they’re like, “We can’t find it. I’m sorry, you’re gonna have to fill it out again.” I was furious. I was scribbling as messily as I could on that new patient paperwork—

[Biz laughs.] 

Like, “Grumble, grumble, grumble! I already filled this out! Why do I have to do this again? They need to look harder! Grumble, grumble, grumble.” Come to find out—I got a phone call today from a different place saying, “We received your new patient paperwork, but we don’t see your appointment on the schedule. Please give us a call back.” Turns out I filled out new patient paperwork for the wrong place. Whomp, whomp, whoooomp! [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

I’m doing a horrible job. [Laughs.] Thanks, guys. Byeeee!

00:36:28

Biz

Host

You are. You are! I mean, I gotta tell ya—I still feel that any paperwork-related issue falls into a special level of fail hell. Right? Like, maybe it’s like a—like a fifth level. Right? Because paperwork is such a fucking pain in the ass to do. And you can hit a moment in your life where you feel like, “What’s the big deal about paperwork?” [Laughs.] ‘Cause you only fill it out like once that whole year! But once there are kids in your house, you’re filling out paperwork like every month. For you. For your kids. For school. For doctors. For different doctors. If you are sandwich-generation-ing it, you’re maybe filling it out for parents. Maybe your partners. So when you fail at it… it really sucks. So you’ve failed at paperwork. Really. You’re doing a horrible—[Laughs.] Horrible job. [Laughs.] 

00:37:29

Music

Music

“Mom Song” by Adira Amram. Mellow piano music with lyrics.

You are the greatest mom I’ve ever known.

I love you, I love you.

When I have a problem, I call you on the phone.

I love you, I love you.

[Music fades out.]

00:37:53

Promo

Clip

[Sci-fi beeping.]

Ben Harrison: Do you sometimes wonder whatever happened to the kids at your school who really loved Star Trek?

Music: Futuristic synth.

Adam Pranica: You might remember a kid like me! The one who read the Star Trek novels and built starship models. I also took music classes to avoid taking gym classes that required showering after, but I don't see what that really has to do with–

Ben: [Enthusiastically interrupting.] Or a kid like me! I introduced myself to kids at my summer camp one year as Wesley! But when the school year started and some of those kids were in my new class, I actually had to explain to my friends that I had tried to take on the identity of my favorite Star Trek character. The shame haunts me to this day!

Adam: I'm sure some of those Star Trek fans from your childhood grew up to have interesting and productive lives, but we ended up being podcasters.

Ben: On The Greatest Discovery, you'll hear what happens to two lifelong Star Trek fans who didn't grow up to be great people, but just grew up to be people who loves jokes as much as they love Trek.

Adam: Season four of Star Trek: Discovery is here, so listen to our new episodes every week on MaximumFun.org or wherever you get your podcasts. 

[A beep.]

00:38:55

Promo

Clip

Music: Jazzy music plays in background. 

Jesse Thorn: Hi, it’s Jesse Thorn, the founder of Maximum Fun. It’s the Thanksgiving season, and I want to take this opportunity to thank you—the members of Maximum Fun. This MaxFun Drive, your generosity and your love of pins helped us raise over $90,000 to help bridge the digital divide. Families without internet access struggle to do things that the rest of us might take for granted—especially during COVID. Going to school, applying for jobs, finding medical care. Your donations help the nonprofit EveryoneOn. They provide equipment, services, and training to get people online so they can access opportunity. You can find out more about the great work EveryoneOn does at EveryoneOn.org. Thanks for supporting Maximum Fun. Thanks for supporting EveryoneOn. And thanks for being awesome people who want to do good in the world.

[Music continues briefly before fading out.]

00:39:57

Biz

Host

Alright, everyone. It’s Thanksgiving. So let’s gather together… and listen to a mom have a breakdown.

00:40:04

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

[Tearfully] Hey, this is a breakdown. [Inaudible.] I was just the mom in public with a baby strapped to my chest and a three-and-a-half-year-old melting down. So dramatically. [Inaudible] strangers tried to help me, and I had to basically just drag him away because he was trying to run from me and hiding in any nook and cranny and my husband was getting an eye exam at the time and I literally sent someone to please just go get my husband. I don’t have the arms. And they couldn’t find him or—I don’t know. Didn’t… know who he was or something. 

[Biz laughs.] 

And now I’m in the parking lot with the baby, because I told my husband to please take the three-year-old. And I don’t know if I can ever come here again. I don’t know why I’m embarrassed? Because it’s not me who was screaming and I was pretty—

[Biz laughs.] 

 —damn calm. But my god! Just—how awful! And before we even got here, I thought, “I haven’t been in public like this in a year and a half.”

[Biz sighs sympathetically]

“This causes me anxiety, but you know what? I’m just gonna go for it! It’ll probably be fine.”

[Biz laughs.]

But no, no, no, no. That was not fine. [Laughs.] By any sense of the word. Oh my god. Anyway, thank you for letting me call you on my way out. You’re doing a good job. And you know what? Goddammit, I did a good job, too! It’s just a shitty situation, right? Right. 

00:41:59

Biz

Host

Oh my god. I love you so much! I am just like—I’m fist-pumping the air that you still managed to come around and know that you were doing a good job! You started this rant and I like, “Oh—” My heart started pounding. Started pounding! Because I have been right there as many of us have. And… [Laughs.] It can be so overwhelming! And you just want it to stop so badly. You also really want help, but it’s incredibly hard to know what will help? And I gotta give you just real high-fives for just stopping and being like, “Somebody find my husband! Right now!” [Laughs.] That is next-level. And I think that was really smart. And it was also really smart letting him just take the three-year-old so that you could go to the car. It is… soul tiring. Like, it makes you tired at your core. When this sort of thing happens. I really appreciate you recognizing the fact that this is not embarra—why are you embarrassed? You’re not the one screaming in the middle of Target. Though—I don’t know if you were at Target. But you know what I mean. Target is our metaphor for all public places [through laughter] that we go with children. But even if you were the mom having the crazy breakdown—which, you would have been justified to be crying as well. With a baby strapped to your chest and a three-year-old having a full-on meltdown. It would have not made me think twice! If you were additionally crying there in the store. So let’s all make sure to remember to try not to feel embarrassed about that. But it’s just—I understand that feeling! “Everybody’s looking!” Or maybe they’re not. It doesn’t matter. But like… we all know everybody’s looking. Everybody’s looking at us. And… [Laughs.] You just want it to stop! I—and the dragging the—ugh. I remember football-carrying Ellis out of the Target with just the biggest, craziest-ass breakdown he’d had publicly. I have football-carried that kid out of a lot of places. And it is… really makes me feel like shit. And… and I always, in those moments, would think to myself, “Why—why is this happening?! Why—[Laughs.] Why can’t my child be happy all the time and understand things?!” And it—obviously, we all know it’s completely normal that they’re melting down and freaking out. But I don’t know. For me, it would trigger all sorts of like… “What am I doing wrong?” feelings. All of this is to say… you are not alone. You are absolutely remarkable. And you are doing such a good job. 

00:45:20

Biz

Host

Everybody? I had such a nice time talking with Max. I loved that he was able to help [through laughter] start conversations about a topic that I think we wouldn’t necessarily ever think to start! “What do you mean, you don’t like reading?! You’re supposed to like reading!” This message that everyone is supposed to love reading—it’s just like another version of how we can let expectations set by others completely influence how we feel about ourselves. [Laughs.] Like, what we’re supposed to be doing. I like that this time it came in a package made of books, as opposed to a package of, y’know, breastmilk pumping or sleep behaviors in children or what we’ve chosen to wear out in public to pick our children out in car line. It all is arbitrary! Look, I—it’s Thanksgiving. Speaking of expectations. We’re all—possibly for the first time in a while—wandering into family gatherings. And it has been a really difficult—let’s just go ahead and say “six years” for family gatherings. Sometimes we’re seeing family that we haven’t seen in a really long time. And sometimes we are in situations with family and friends who do not see eye-to-eye with us. Or we don’t see eye-to-eye with them. And it can make it a very—a lot of times we can walk into those situations looking for a fight. [Laughs.] Expecting a fight. And I don’t… I don’t know how to avoid that? The pandemic is nice ‘cause maybe we can still just say we’re hiding from the pandemic and we don’t have to go to family Thanksgivings, but I know a lot of people will be and I just want you to know—to remember to hide something really nice for yourself in a bathroom somewhere, so that you can excuse yourself to hide in the bathroom—use infants if you have them to your advantage. “I need a quiet place to feed the baby. No, you can’t help. Don’t—nope. I don’t—I don’t need your help.” I remember spending whole Thanksgivings in a different room than the entire other family, ‘cause my kid just couldn’t sit at a fucking table. Right? Like, with all these fancy things? Y’know, it’s just like, “I’m not gonna make this kid sit here for two hours!” [Laughs.] And so whatever you need to get through it, I do hope you find some moments that are special and that remind you how thankful people are to have you in their lives. Happy Gobble-Gobble! I will talk to you next week. Bye!

00:48:17

Music

Music

“Mama Blues” by Cornbread Ted and the Butterbeans. Strumming acoustic guitar with harmonica and lyrics.

I got the lowdown momma blues

Got the the lowdown momma blues

Gots the lowdown momma blues

The lowdown momma blues. 

Gots the lowdown momma blues

Got the lowdown momma blues

You know that’s right.

[Music fades.]

00:48:41

Biz

Host

We’d like to thank MaxFun; our producer, Gabe Mara; our husbands, Stefan Lawrence and Jesse Thorn; our perfect children, who provide us with inspiration to say all these horrible things; and of course, you, our listeners. To find out more about the songs you heard on today’s podcast and more about the show, please go to MaximumFun.org/onebadmother. For information about live shows, our book and press, please check out OneBadMotherPodcast.com.

00:49:09

Theresa

Host

One Bad Mother is a member of the Maximum Fun family of podcasts. To support the show go to MaximumFun.org/donate.

[Music resumes for a while before fading out.]

00:49:33

Music

Transition

A cheerful ukulele chord.

00:49:34

Speaker 1

Guest

MaximumFun.org.

00:49:35

Speaker 2

Guest

Comedy and culture.

00:49:37

Speaker 3

Guest

Artist owned—

00:49:38

Speaker 4

Guest

—Audience supported.