TRANSCRIPT One Bad Mother Episode 430: I Just Can’t Sit Still! with Dr. Reema Naim

00:00:00

Biz Ellis

Host

Hi. I’m Biz.

00:00:01

Theresa Thorn

Host

And I’m Theresa.

00:00:02

Biz 

Host

Due to the pandemic, we bring you One Bad Mother straight from our homes—including such interruptions as: children! Animal noises! And more! So let’s all get a little closer while we have to be so far apart. And remember—we are doing a good job.

00:00:21

Music

Music

“Summon the Rawk” by Kevin MacLeod. Driving electric guitar and heavy drums.

[Continues through dialogue.]

00:00:25

Biz 

Host

This week on One Bad Mother—I just can’t sit still! We talk to Dr. Reema Naim about sensory challenges. Plus, Biz finds herself alone!

00:00:37

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz and caller: Wooo!

00:00:38

Caller

Caller

This is a check-in.

[Biz laughs.] 

So I decided that I was going to be a Self and I was going to do some yoga. So I went into my living room and I put on a yoga video and I started doing it and then in the middle of it at one point I was laying on the ground. And I laid in something wet. And my house is basically overrun with children and animals, so the chances are very high that that was probably some bodily fluids or something. But I just said, “Well, I’m already wet, so I’m just gonna finish my yoga.” So I did. So I’m a Self. But, uh…

[Biz laughs.]

A haggard and broken Self. Thanks for the show! You’re doing a great job.

00:01:27

Biz 

Host

And… wet. Let’s not forget a Self who has a wet spot, not made by themselves. That—I gotta tell ya—I’m just at this place where I no longer wanna shout, “This is life now.” I want us to just knead the dough. Fold the dough of parenthood over and accept that like, “Yes! Yes!” Not that it should be something we call out or we’re like, “Oh, that’s so sad.” Or—[Laughs.] Or, “Oh! Yeah! That’s happened to me, too.” Like, I just want us to enjoy—I think I used a kneading yeast, dough, metaphor just a second ago. So I’m gonna say—I just want a big, honking loaf of delicious acceptance bread. Acceptance and like… okay-ness. Right? ‘Cause sometimes we can accept things but it’s not okay. You’re like, “I’ve accepted this and it’s horrible.” I would like to just accept, “Yeah! Yep! I stepped in at least three wet spots today when I was walking around the house this morning.” One, I was in socks, and I stepped on a tomato that had been left on the floor from the night before. That I had not cleaned up. This was my doing. And so I took my sock off. And then I stepped in a wet spot in Raiden’s room that was clearly a small—like, a quarter-size of cat—I wouldn’t say puke, ‘cause it was just liquid. Right? So it’s—but it came from the mouth. And then I was like, “Gross! That was—but I’m just gonna keep going ‘cause, y’know, whatever. It’s not gonna be wet three steps from now when I dry my foot off with walking.” And then I came back into my own bedroom where there was so much cat puke. On the floor. In its purest cat-puke form. And I’d like to say I didn’t step in it. I didn’t! I cleaned it up. But y’know? There’s still the like… the damp? And then I just stepped right back in it. So yeah. Have I showered? [Laughs.] Did I wash my feet? No. I put a clean pair of socks on and I went about my business. Like ya do. I think you are wonderful. And I would like to focus more on the yoga. Very good job! I hope you really enjoyed yourself, and I hope that you will find more time for being a Self. 

Speaking of finding more time to do something, I would like to spend a little more time… handing out the thank-you’s!

00:04:05

Music

Music

Heavy electric guitar and driving percussion overlaid with “Ohh, oh-oh, oh-oh” and “Hey-ey-ey-ey-ey-ey” lyrics.

00:04:18

Biz 

Host

Guys? Is it better yet? [Laughs.] Somebody said to me—oh, it was Stefan. Stefan was like, “I think it’s really nice you’re still doing the thank-you’s.” And I’m like, “Oh, well—thank you. But there is actually still a pandemic. Going on around the whole world. Around the whole world.” And yeah! Yeah! A lot of us are vaccinated. A lot of our older kids are vaccinated. A lot of our younger kids have been dosed once or will be getting dosed soon. And then of course there are the places where people just pretended like the pandemic didn’t happen and they’re just going about their normal business like it’s not a thing. But it is! It is! And so I—I think thank-you’s are still really important. Because whatever life looks like for you where you are? It looks really different possibly a town over. A state over. A country over. Y’know? It… yeah! La, la, la! 

So thank you… medical people! Healthcare workers have worked their fucking asses off, be it nurses, doctors—like those frontliners that we see every day. Or the people who work behind the scenes keeping things clean. Y’know, like, again—when my mom was in the hospital recently, I mean there was a guy who helped her get up and go to the bathroom! Jesus Christ! Thank you! Thank you, thank you, thank you! I couldn’t have done that! Thank you so much! And y’know, all the people who were in charge of entering the medical records—I just—thank you! I really appreciate you! Thank you to all of you who are passing out those boosters, as well as sticking it to our children. I am so thankful for you, be you a volunteer or be you part of the medical community. I really see you. No one likes getting poked, and little kids above the age of five—that’s not like it’s a magic number where they’re gonna stop screaming their heads off when a shot comes at them. Okay? Like—[Laughs.] All the prep talk in the world isn’t gonna make that fun. So… thank you. 

Thank you to everybody who works in the postal and shipping universe. The holidays are coming. Everybody’s freaking the fuck out about, like… I don’t know. Shipments. And like, [yelling] “Nobody’s gonna get anything!” [Regular voice] So thank you, those of you who are out there making whatever can happen, happen. Thank you! I really appreciate that!

Teachers? And other school faculty? I love you. Thank you so much. You’re doing a great job. You deserve all the #1 Teacher mugs, except I know that you don’t really want those. ‘Cause… there’s just a mug limit. That all of us have. And mine is one. Mine is one mug. But you deserve them all. And… thank you—I will just wrap up today on my thank-you’s of thanking everybody who works with food banks, as well as homeless shelters. I know that here in L.A. they just got through doing the homeless census—or actually I think maybe it’s about to come up. So I think about all the people who were volunteering out there to help count, identify, and make sure that we have an accurate number of who is out there and who needs services and help. And the pandemic doesn’t make that any easier or, like, less stressful? So thank you to all of you who are doing that. And especially to those who are working in children’s services. Thank you. [Singing] Thank youuuu! 

00:08:03

Biz 

Host

Alright! I’m all alone. Why? Stefan is out of town. Do you guys remember back in the early days of One Bad Mother? Stefan would be gone all the time! [Laughs.] He was always gone! He was always traveling. Always. For long, extended periods of time. Now, this is the first trip that they have had to take in—I gotta say almost two years. And they haven’t even been in an office for reals in… over a year. So it has been some very intensive family time. We luckily like each other a lot. So not only was it a little weird for him to go—[Laughs.] Which—that’s very sweet. But I’m like, “Go! Run for your life!” I’m also not the same person I was back when they used to travel ‘cause I—did you hear me? I said, “Go! Run for your life!” [Laughs.] “I hope you have a nice dinner and a drink at least one night!” 

Y’know, because… I don’t have little babies in my house anymore. I have kids who are satisfied with television. And… at least one of them will eat pizza. So it is a tiny bit easier than it used to be. And because Stefan’s not here to work from home, when I am home during the day, I am totally alone! Like, all alone. And I have been spending that time unwisely. Investing too much energy in the—the new software update for Animal Crossing. I have built a farm with all of my tomatoes. So… there you go. In fact, the whole family—now that Stefan is gone on this trip—is investing too much time in Animal Crossing. And what’s funny is that you wouldn’t think there would be a lot of movement surrounding videogame play? But Ellis—oh, darling Ellis!—can bounce through any situation and needs to. Which ties in nicely to what we’re going to be talking about today with Dr. Reema Naim and her Adventures of the Sensokids. 

00:10:15

Music

Music

Banjo strums; cheerful banjo music continues through dialogue.

00:10:16

Theresa

Host

Please—take a moment to remember: If you’re friends of the hosts of One Bad Mother, you should assume that when we talk about other moms, we’re talking about you.

00:10:23

Biz 

Host

If you are married to the host of One Bad Mother, we definitely are talking about you.

00:10:27

Theresa

Host

Nothing we say constitutes professional parenting advice.

00:10:30

Biz 

Host

Biz and Theresa’s children are brilliant, lovely, and exceedingly extraordinary.

00:10:34

Theresa

Host

Nothing said on this podcast about them implies otherwise.

[Banjo music fades out.] 

[Biz and her guest repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss the weekly topic.]

00:10:40

Biz 

Host

She’s got a second book out in the series, this one entitled, Adventures of the Sensokids: I’ve Got the Wiggles!

[Reema laughs.] 

Is she in my house? Welcome, Dr. Naim!

00:10:54

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Reema: Thank you! Thank you so much! Thank you guys for having me.

Biz: Thank you!

00:10:58

Biz 

Host

Before we get into the Sensokids, as well as to sort of better understanding your work—‘cause there’s a lot of abbreviations I am not familiar with—I wanna start by asking you, who lives in your house?

00:11:13

Reema Naim

Guest

So who lives in my house? My husband, myself, I have a five-month-old—

00:11:19

Biz 

Host

Oh my god!

00:11:21

Reema 

Guest

Five-month-old daughter, yes. She’s—she’s, um…

[Biz laughs.] 

Yes. She’s a handful. [Through laughter] And then—wait! And then I have a twenty-three-month-old. Actually he’s turning two. Actually he’s turning two. [Laughs.] There’s a lot of craziness going on. And then I have—who else do we have? We have our three dogs.

[Biz laughs.] 

Yeah, we have three dogs. Yeah! It’s pretty much a farm. [Laughs.] 

00:11:44

Biz 

Host

You’re currently not in your actual place of residency. You are in—you live in L.A., but you’re in Houston right now. And I bet that’s relaxing. 

00:11:54

Reema 

Guest

Very relaxing. [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

Traveling and packing up with all the kids—we didn’t bring the dogs. The dogs have a dog sitter, so that’s—that was a little less stress. But picking up and moving to Houston for a while with the kids was definitely—especially at the ages that they’re in right now—has been… a pretty interesting experience. [Laughs.] 

00:12:13

Biz 

Host

I’m not sure I have yet to discover an age in which any form of travel is super awesome.

00:12:20

Reema 

Guest

Y’know? I know. People say it gets much easier at five? 

[Biz laughs.] 

But I don’t know.

00:12:26

Biz 

Host

Eh, I don’t know. Maybe.

00:12:27

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Reema: [Laughs.] I’ll let you know when it changes. 

Biz: Will it make you feel better? 

00:12:29

Biz 

Host

[Through laughter] Will it make you feel better if I tell you it does? [Laughs.] 

00:12:32

Reema 

Guest

Oh my god. Hold onto those.

00:12:34

Biz 

Host

It gets different. That’s what we like to say. It gets… something. Mine are always something. But right now, what’s important is that—are you okay? How are you? ‘Cause five months and two… that… like, that’s its own special… special sort of recipe for… I think that was around the time when I was like, trying to make pasta? And I was boiling it and I was pretty sure I was so sleep-deprived that I was looking at eyes in the boiling water. That was like—I was like, “This is too much! I have too much! Time for sleep.”

00:13:12

Reema 

Guest

I know! Yeah. No. It’s been—it’s been challenging, but I have help. Which I’m grateful for. Because if I didn’t have any help, I definitely would not be here today. [Laughs.] 

00:13:23

Biz 

Host

Yeah. ‘Cause you look kinda put together! You look nice. She looks nice, everybody.

00:13:29

Reema 

Guest

Oh, thank you. [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

I feel like I… anyone with kids at that age needs to have some sort of help. Of some kind. Especially—my husband’s—he’s working all day long so it’s really me and the kids. So. Definitely made sure that I had help. And take time for some self-care and just kind of… y’know. Giving myself the time for me and what I have to do. 

00:13:55

Biz 

Host

Woo! Good job! Good job!

00:13:57

Reema 

Guest

I know. You have to—

00:13:58

Biz 

Host

That’s hard to do! 

00:13:59

Reema 

Guest

Yeah, ‘cause there’s a lot of mom guilt, but at the same time it’s like, “No, I need to prioritize my needs at the same time.” I’m trying. I’m trying.

00:14:08

Biz 

Host

You are doing such a good job. ‘Cause that mom guilt—it’ll strip that right away from you. So good job! And I really hope you continue to do that. I mean, I think it’s kind of awesome to set that at the beginning? A lot of us set a very different tone at the beginning. And then that’s a hard narrative to change. But if you’ve set this now? I mean, you’re—this is looking good!

00:14:31

Reema 

Guest

Yeah. I just had to be really realistic. With myself. And be like, “Okay, I wanna be the mom that does every single thing, but the truth is that’s just… for me, it’s just not possible and I just came to terms with it and accepted it.” And got the help that I needed. So I am sane and I’m alive and I’m okay. [Laughs.] 

00:14:52

Biz 

Host

Good… job! Alright. Somewhere in all of this, you are also a Self. Not just a Self, but a doctor Self. And there are several initials that follow after your name, and I am unfamiliar—well, I think I know what they are. But it’s really—this is not a show where I should be offering any official insight into anything. So I’m gonna ask you—can you tell us about OTD and OTR-L? Yeah, what these—what these mean. 

00:15:24

Reema 

Guest

So OTD is Doctor of Occupational Therapy, and the OTR-L is that I’m a registered and licensed occupational therapist. 

00:15:34

Biz 

Host

And what… does an occupational therapist do? 

00:15:39

Reema 

Guest

That’s great. That’s a great question. There are different—I guess—parts of occupational therapy. There’s, y’know, occupational therapists who specialize in hands. Occupational therapists who specialize—yeah, in geriatrics. In pediatrics. In what I do, we work with children who have—they are having challenges with adaptive behaviors. Challenges—y’know, it’s a little bit of a fine line, but some social skills. And what I do is sensory integration, primarily. So working with the senses and working with sensory integration in children who have, I guess… I always feel like I’m tiptoeing around how to say it, but children who have sensitivities to… different sensory—

00:16:29

Biz 

Host

Stimuluses, right?

00:16:31

Reema 

Guest

Stimulus, yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. So working with them and making sure that they’re able to kind of engage in their daily lives and their activities, either adapting their activities or just working with the central nervous system and getting them to be able to actually, y’know. Process those different sensory feedback and sensory input.

00:16:50

Biz 

Host

I have read your book. [Laughs.] The Adventures of Sensokids. In which you explain a lot of this. Which is very helpful. But one of the things that I wasn’t ready for when I read it was… when I think “senses,” I think, like, sight. Sound. Y’know. Touch. But you talk specifically… as well about, like, movement. Muscle activity and balance. That I never… thought of, necessarily, as a sense. But I guess it’s actually one big receptor, isn’t it? Tell me about that!

00:17:27

Reema 

Guest

Yeah! So… the senses are super complicated. 

[Biz laughs.] 

I feel like—[Laughs.] I feel like—I have a hard time explaining the vestibular and the proprioceptive senses. So trying to make a little bit easier for parents and just people to understand—when I think of the vestibular system, I’m thinking of movement. I’m thinking of balance. I’m thinking of, y’know, if you’re on a rollercoaster and you closer your eyes, you know what movement you’re going in. Right? that’s your vestibular system kind of giving you feedback. Then you’re thinking about the proprioceptive and that's muscle activity. So you're doing jumping jacks, you know what your body is doing. You know where your muscles and your joints are moving in space. Right? With kids that we see, some of our kids on the playground, y’know, we’ll get phone calls from teachers like, “Y’know, this kid is clumsy. I have a kid who doesn’t know how to use the playground equipment. He’s not able to engage with the playground equipment like other typically-developing kids are.” And that’s when we kind of can look at what’s happening in the vestibular, what’s happening in the proprioceptive systems. What’s happening in the sensory systems, y’know, entirely. What’s going on with these kids who are having a hard time to engage.

00:18:46

Biz 

Host

How do you look? What does that mean? How do you like… yeah?

00:18:50

Reema 

Guest

To look into it?

[Biz laughs.] 

It’s basically— [Laughs.] No, it’s not looking at it like seeing—it’s more so like the teachers will say stuff like, “Oh, y’know, this child is having a hard time going down the slide.” Or “This child is afraid of going near the slide or afraid of going near the swings or this child doesn’t wanna step up off the floor onto a second platform towards the playground.” So certain things like that, and then we’d be able to see, okay. Well if they’re having a hard time—or if they don’t want to be off the ground, for example, they don’t want to get on anything that’s suspended, then maybe there’s a vestibular modulation issue. Depends on what it is, depends on what the child is fearful of or is avoiding. But a lot of the times you see in the playground setting, you see in certain—even in the home settings when it’s like, “I don’t want to wear this top. This specific shirt. I don’t want to put on these pants. I don’t like the texture of any of this. I don’t like my hair getting cut. I don’t like to be in the bathtub.” You’ll see certain things at school and at home that can lead to being able to kind of wanna delve into the sensory systems more and see if there’s something underlying that we need to look at.

00:20:05

Biz 

Host

Okay. See, that—kids get in your house. And one of the—[Laughs.] And as the people taking care of the kids in our house, I… constantly have gone through different moments at different stages thinking, “Is something off here? Is something more here? No, no, no, no. That kid didn’t wanna get on the swing? I ain’t gonna make that kid get on a swing! Who wants to be on a swing?” Right? Like, I feel like there’s this… weird space that I can find myself in… and all of it’s tied to, y’know, some form of guilt or some form of self-judgment or—y’know, like, it’s not like it ever comes out of a place of like… rational thinking, most of the time. Right? And so… I’m listening to you talk about the things and because I am the voice of all of us who do not understand—[Laughs.] I’m happy to be that person and say it all out loud!
 

[Reema laughs.] 

So I’m listening to you talk about all those issues. So…

00:21:09

Reema 

Guest

I think we all are guilty of thinking like that.

00:21:11

Biz 

Host

Yeah. So how do we as parents navigate it without putting our own, like, “Oh, my kid is gonna go down a slide if it—” Y’know? Like—[Laughs.] 

00:21:20

Reema 

Guest

No. I mean—[Laughs.] I think the rule of thumb is if it’s not affecting his daily life—we all have sensory quirks, I think. I mean, I definitely do. And it’s not affecting my daily life! It’s not affecting my ability to participate in an everyday life. So when it doesn’t affect you in that sense, then it’s not something to be concerned about. It’s more so the kids who won’t engage in social play because they won’t be able to even go near the equipment and play with their peers. Or it’s affecting them socially. It’s affecting them when parents are getting their kids ready for school, it’s taking like three hours instead of ten minutes because the child just is not able to tolerate all of that sensory input. Or feeding, y’know. Child’s not eating anything. These are the areas where you should consider thinking about, y’know, how is this affecting daily life? But if it’s not and it’s just like, “Oh, he just doesn’t feel like doing that and that’s fine. Maybe he just doesn’t feel like doing it! It’s okay!” It doesn’t have to be—y’know.

00:22:28

Biz 

Host

Okay. But let’s—well let’s shift onto the wiggling and movement. Talk to me about the wiggles. And the movement. 

00:22:35

Reema 

Guest

Well, yeah. So I mean… so the book series is four books. The first one was tactile. This one is the vestibular system. And then we still have the proprioceptive and the vestibular—the visual perception coming out. [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

The vestibular issue is the subject on the wiggles and the movement. And the balance. And the reason kind of I—we thought about going in this direction is because, y’know, we do get a lot of calls from teachers and conversations from parents who say, y’know, “Our kid isn’t sitting still in Circle Time. Isn’t paying attention. Is kind of—y’know.” And sometimes teachers will think it’s defiant behavior. Y’know. Just wants to get up and run around and doesn’t wanna sit still and doesn’t wanna pay attention. When it’s not really—it doesn’t have to be a behavior issue. There is a fine line between sensory and behavior? But it doesn’t have to be a behavior issue. It could also be a sensory concern. I think it’s just important to have the awareness for teachers and for parents to know that maybe there’s something here with the vestibular system. Maybe they need certain things. Maybe we need a wiggle cushion. Maybe we need a little bouncy ball. Maybe we need something else to kind of help get into that optimal—y’know, level of arousal where you can focus and pay attention in circle time or in class or whatever it may be. But if it’s not disturbing everyone—if it’s, y’know, sometimes—I don’t know. I was one of those kids that would bite my pencil. And I would kinda sway back and forth in the chair. It’s not really bothering anybody? It’s not really a big deal. But when it’s the kids who are just unable to listen at all. Hear. Focus. Pay attention. Then it’s when there’s something. And it’s usually the teachers that will bring that up. Like, “Okay. This child’s not paying any attention.” My whole thing is that, y’know. It’s important to know that there can be a sensory—underlying sensory tone to all of this. It’s not necessarily a child being defiant or not listening or not cooperating or not paying attention. There could be something else that we should be aware of. 

00:24:39

Biz 

Host

I… A, I think that’s… so important. When the world is being its best—[Laughs.] We become aware of things in ways we had not previously been aware of them. So—for example, not seeing sensory issues as… being difficult children, or disruptive children, or “They’re just doing that on purpose.” Right? Like, y’know? Like that. I mean, now you go to museums and they’ve got sensory rooms where you can go in and every kid’s got a fidget toy. And y’know, somebody figured out those stupid bathroom hand dryers—I mean, Ellis could not go in—thousands of us! Carry around, y’know, Post-It notes to stick over the automatic flushers. Right? Like—[Laughs.] Y’know? We’ve started to… adapt our thinking and our narrative, how we talk about it. I have to imagine, though, we’re still at a place where… that is still difficult. Right? Depending on… y’know. How one was brought up. How, y’know, what… the expectations were in their house or their parents’ house or their-their-their parents’ house. And then, “Well in that case, it’s gotta be here!” But what I like about the book is that you’re giving language to it? Which… there is nothing more helpful than language. Right? Because I think it gives kids and parents a sense of… normalcy and a sense of ownership? 

00:26:23

Reema 

Guest

Right. And I think that’s the reason I created The Sensokids, was because when I initially got into the field and I was working, I noticed a lot of our kids with sensory processing disorder and having sensory concerns—a lot of the parents had absolutely no idea what we were talking about. And any information they could find online or anywhere was just these long-winded, y’know, pages of text. And I thought for kids and for parents, it’s important to make the information somewhat fun and understandable. Without going into, y’know, neural pathways and, y’know, just to make it fun and simple and The Sensokids allowed me to find a way to do that. So we have YouTube videos and videos on our website and on our Instagram that kind of make all of this information a little easier to digest and a little easier to understand. And that’s another reason why I started with the books, was because in the beginning of each book it’s kind of talking—we kind of talk about, y’know, the senses and what they are. And give you a little briefing on what you’re going to be hearing. And then we go into introducing the characters, so you’re familiar with them. And then there’s a story about a boy with a sensory concern but the Sensokids are able to help, using activities and games that we typically—kids usually do engage in! But for this kid, it’s going to make more of a difference because he needs it more. He needs these certain activities more to be able to focus and pay attention and be present in school. So it’s just like… y’know Captain Planet? How there was Earth, Wind, Fire, Water—

[Biz laughs.] 

Y’know, and then “With our forces combined—” And then this—I mean, y’know! The same thing with Pixar’s Inside Out, y’know. Jealousy, Sadness. This is just a way of understanding your senses.

00:28:19

Biz 

Host

Again—I love having language for things. And—surprise! As an adult, you might see yourself as well. [Laughs.] And it might be really nice to hear the right language for things you’ve always thought were weird about yourself. I wanna end on this question, and that is—what happens in occupational therapy? And I know that depends on what the situation is. But what happens, and is occupational therapy a little like therapy-therapy? In which I think everybody should do it. [Laughs.] 

[Reema laughs.] 

I mean, is there—

00:28:56

Reema 

Guest

I agree with that. I agree. [Laughs.] Occupational therapy—so what it looks like—what it would look like if you were coming in for OT, would be you’d be going into at least in our—and I’m gonna speak specifically to my clinic. What we do. When you come into the clinic, you’re kind of introduced into this magical gym. Which has—our gym has, like, drawings of mountains and butterflies all over the walls. And it just is like a fun little escape place. We have all this suspended equipment. We have mats. Looks a little bit like a physical therapy—like a gym—like a play gym. Ones you would go and take your kids to. With ball pits and stuff like that. So it’s got that kind of a feel. It doesn’t feel like you’re going into something for therapy. It feels like you’re going in for a play? But what occupational therapists are trained to do is take the neuroscience behind the play and the activity and kind of combine the two and engage the child in activities that can help foster certain sensory and cognitive skills that they were lacking. Or were, y’know, needed a push or help or guidance towards. So it doesn’t seem or have a feel of any kind of therapy-type atmosphere? It’s more like a play atmosphere. It’s just that therapists are trained to know what they need to do and what activities they need to do to help the child overcome certain concerns.

00:30:24

Biz 

Host

Yeah. I think about—the one that I’m most familiar with would be speech? Therapy? Right? Developmental? Where, like, oh, suddenly somebody’s like, “Eh, maybe your kid should be saying more things by this point in time.” [Laughs.] Right? And then I’m like, “You are wrong! My child is brilliant and is just… they’re just sitting on it, like their mother did!” But like—[Laughs.] Just gonna come out in a rage one day! But then after a certain period of time working with a speech therapist, that person knows how to help the child develop the things that didn’t—right? Like, it’s not like—and am I supposed to feel horrible as a parent that I didn’t do that? [Laughs.] 

00:31:09

Reema 

Guest

No! Not at all!

00:31:11

Biz 

Host

Are you sure? [Laughs.] 

00:31:12

Reema 

Guest

No! Yes! No! ‘Cause you’re not trained to know the certain ways and the certain things—

00:31:16

Biz 

Host

Yes, but I am the mother! 

[Both laugh.]

00:31:20

Reema 

Guest

Yeah. No, we all—we all need some help in certain areas. It’s not—we don’t—we can’t as moms know everything and encompass everything. But I agree. I think even speech therapy—they have fun ways of getting a child to engage in communication and communicate. So they have fun, engaging ways. We have fun, engaging ways to work with sensory systems and developmental—like, fine motor skills and balance. Coordination. Y’know. Things that we can create these fun experiences that will help meet these child’s goals.

00:31:55

Biz 

Host

I gotta imagine that it also is really beneficial to the child to develop these things and work with somebody away from… the overwhelmingness of the playground. Or the classroom. Right? ‘Cause I—right? ‘Cause it’s like—everybody’s running and it’s crazy or they’re doing it and I’m not doing it and like—y’know? [Laughs.] 

00:32:19

Reema 

Guest

Yeah! And then also it’s great because the OT can always—or the speech therapist—can always communicate with parents. Like, “These are some things that you can do at home that you may not have been doing that are actually super beneficial for what your child needs, specifically.” So even though they’re engaging in this stuff at the clinic, you always have something to go home with and something to think about when you’re at home. And you’ll have a different perspective on how to engage in play at home to foster the areas that your child needs help with.

00:32:52

Biz 

Host

I… love it! Dr. Naim, thank you so much—well, first of all, for joining us and letting me ask you questions that, y’know, I feel like I should’ve known all the answers to already.

[Reema laughs.] 

But I think it’s—there are so many different things that touch our lives and our kids’ lives that it doesn’t mean we’re all having the same thing touch at the same time? And I—y’know, this has been so helpful in helping me know more about what occupational therapy is and the senses, which then allow me to go out and be more empathetic. And the book not only helps me put language to it, I’m just so happy that this is gonna help parents be able to talk to their kids with the right language.

00:33:44

Reema 

Guest

I think what’s great is that, y’know, this is for all kids. It’s something—y’know. I think children should all be aware of the terminologies. All be aware of and understand all seven of the senses. And they can think about that when they’re on the playground and when they’re doing activities and when they’re moving their bodies and they’re engaging in certain play activities. They all understand their bodies better by understanding the definitions.

00:34:10

Biz 

Host

Yeah. No—

00:34:11

Reema 

Guest

Of their senses.

00:34:12

Biz 

Host

And it helps especially new parents or even old, broken, haggard parents like me—

[Reema laughs.] 

—understand our kids’ bodies better, too. Which I think is so important. We’re gonna link everybody up to where they can find out more about the series, The Adventures of the Sensokids, and to the videos. All of those things. Thank you so much for joining us!

00:34:37

Reema 

Guest

Thank you so much for having me! Thank you!

[Biz laughs.] 

00:34:40

Biz 

Host

Absolutely! You are doing a wonderful job! [Laughs.] 

00:34:43

Reema 

Guest

Thank you! Now back to the farm.

00:34:46

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Reema: Back to the kids.

Biz: I know! Back to the farm! Ugh!

00:34:49

Biz 

Host

Back to sleep! Back to sleep!

[Both laugh.]

00:34:52

Music

Music

“Ones and Zeroes” by “Awesome.” Steady, driving electric guitar with drum and woodwinds.

[Music fades out.]

00:35:10

Music

Promo

Inspirational keyboard music plays in background.

00:35:11

Biz 

Promo

One Bad Mother is supported in part by KiwiCo. [Singing] Holidays are coming! [Regular voice] I was in the closet the other day and I pulled out the Maker’s Crate on making a rope basket! I wanted to keep it for myself, but I did ask if Raiden wanted to participate. And [singing] we made a rope basket! [Regular voice] And y’know? It kinda doubled up, because the basket turned out so nice, Raiden plans on giving it to a friend [singing] as a gift! [Regular voice] This holiday season, give the gift of fun, hands-on holiday experience with KiwiCo. You can get 50% off your first month, plus free shipping, on any crate line with code “badmother” at KiwiCo.com. That’s 50% off your first month at K-I-W-I-C-O.com, promo code “badmother.” 

[Music fades out.]

00:36:05

Music

Promo

Cheerful ukulele with whistling plays in background.

00:36:06

Biz 

Host

One Bad Mother is supported in part by MadeIn. If quality and craftsmanship is important to you, you should check out MadeIn. Made In is a cookware and kitchenware brand that works with renowned chefs and artisans to produce some of the world’s best pots, pans, and wine glasses. Who doesn’t need wine glasses over the holidays? Or quality, good cookware? MadeIn—all of their cookware distributes heat evenly and can easily go from the stovetop to the oven. That is incredibly helpful during very large meal planning. I got one of their amazing kitchen knives, which—it was time for me to get a new kitchen knife. And this guy is gonna be with me for a very long time! It’s so beautiful and sharp! Right now, MadeIn is offering our listeners 15% off your first order with promo code “badmother.” This is the best discount available anywhere online for MadeIn products. Go to MadeInCookware.com/badmother, and use promo code “badmother” for 15% off your first order. That’s MadeInCookware.com/badmother, using promo code “badmother.”

[Music fades out.]

00:37:25

Theresa

Host

Hey, you know what it’s time for! This week’s genius and fails! This is the part of the show where we share our genius moment of the week, as well as our failures, and feel better about ourselves by hearing yours. You can share some of your own by calling 206-350-9485. That’s 206-350-9485.

00:37:44

Biz 

Host

Genius fail time. Genius me, me! 

00:37:49

Clip

Clip

[Dramatic, swelling music in background.]

Biz: Wow! Oh my God! Oh my God! I saw what you did! Oh my God! I’m paying attention! Wow! You, mom, are a genius. Oh my God, that’s fucking genius!

00:38:03

Biz 

Host

Okay! I will! Alright. So… some mornings, Ellis isn’t excited about going to school. And it’s usually because they have gotten into some sort of mood? And then the day is ruined before they even get there, or they’re worried about jerks. Y’know. “I don’t wanna run into any jerks. So-and-so’s a real jerk.” Right? So the other day, they were very upset in the car. We’re pulling up for Ellis to get out, and I say, “Hold on. Hold on. I’ve got something for you.” And I reached into my pocket, and I pulled out magic. [Laughs.] Nothing. Nothing’s in my hand, actually. But I pull it out and I say, “Okay. This is a mood adjuster. Okay? I’m gonna put it in your pocket. So whenever you feel like you need to change your mood to a good mood, you just reach in that pocket and use it. ‘K? Just give yourself a little spritz of it.” And then Ellis says, “Well what if I run into a jerk who ruins my new mood?” I said, “Ope! Hold on. I think I have something in my purse.” [Laughs.] And then I start going through the purse. “Okay. I got this.” Again—there’s nothing in my hand, everybody. I’m waving it around like, “Ehhh!” Like a stereotype of some kind. Anyway. So I’ve got this in my hand and I say, “Ellis, I’m gonna put this in your other pocket. And if somebody’s being a jerk, you just take it out and you pinch a little and throw it. Just a little spritz. A little pfft of this anti-jerk powder. And it’s just gonna turn them around and they’re gonna go away.” And Ellis was very satisfied with this and was like, “Okay. This is good.” And then they start to get out of the door and I go, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait! Wait, Ellis! Oh—okay. I am not sure if I gave you jerk powder? If you throw that at the jerk, if that’s going to stop them from being a jerk? Or if I gave you the one that’s gonna turn them into a frog. I don’t… I don’t know which.” [Laughs.] And Ellis was like, “Well maybe I should try it out.” “I don’t know!” “I could try it out on a tree.” “Yeah, but trees aren’t jerks.” “Alright, well, I’ll let you know.” I said, “Thank you very much.” Anyway. I’ve done this two additional times since then. It has been working so well. And I feel like I still got a little—I mean, y’know. Ellis is almost eight! Y’know the old, like, “This is the monster spray! Spray it in your room!” Or “This is—I’m gonna put sweetness on your medicine and it’s gonna be delicious!” Whatever lies—like, mystical, magical lies that we told our kids when they were little. I’m very happy to know it’s still holding up at this age.

00:40:57

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

Hi! I am calling with a genius. [Small child asks unintelligible question in background.] Just a minute! If you have a three-year-old—

[Biz laughs.] 

—who loves to get her nails painted and always wants to get them painted like mine, you—it’s a pain in the butt, though! ‘Cause she can’t hold still. I don’t care if they look good, but she can’t hold still for them to not get everywhere. For the paint not to get everywhere. So use the cool setting on your blow dryer and you can blow dry her nails! Or his nails. And it goes so much faster. 

[Child continues to make noise in background.]

And she thought it was funny! And kind of silly and whatever. And before that, I also had another genius.

[Biz laughs.] 

Only Google told me about it. You—to get the dirt out from underneath their nails—since it’s—they don’t know how to [through laughter] wash their hands and get that dirt out—use an old toothbrush! And put some soap on it. And she also thought that was kinda—tickled her and that was funny. So anyway, I never use the cool setting on the blow dryer anyway, so that’s the perfect use for it. Actually, I haven’t really used a blow dryer in forever because—

[Biz laughs.] 

—who has time for that? [Laughs.] But anyway, thanks for the show. I love it. It makes me so happy. It gives me joy. So thank you for sharing that. Thank you for this awesome community. And you’re all doing a great job. Thanks! 

00:42:35

Biz 

Host

[Laughs.] I think you got a pileup at your salon, madam! I hear a lot of noise behind you. Okay. First of all, you are doing a great job. You are a genius. I can safely say that the cool setting is so smart. I will also acknowledge—as a parent with two children, one of whom would be fine with that, the other of whom would completely lose their mind—I’ll let you guys decide which one likes the sound of the dryer [through laughter] and which one doesn’t. I love this, but I gotta tell ya—I actually kind of love even more? The toothbrush under the nails. I… this is so genius! [Singing] Brushing your nails! Brushing your teeth! Brushing your nails—whatever. [Regular voice] That’s a song. I love this idea so much! And I am going to do this on my children, or at least suggest that they do it to themselves. It’s a great one to do with slightly older kids? Like in the bathtub, give them a toothbrush and be like, “Go to town!” Right? Like, on different parts of their body that needs cleaning? I love this. You are doing an amazing job. 

Failures!

00:43:48

Clip

Clip

[Dramatic orchestral music plays in the background.]

Theresa: [In a voice akin to the Wicked Witch of the West] Fail. Fail. Fail. FAIL!

[Timpani with foot pedal engaged for humorous effect.]

Biz: [Calmly] You suck!

00:43:55

Biz 

Host

Fail me, me. Well, alright. So in the past… the pumpkins we have bought to decorate the house for Halloween and all fall festivities usually last for ever. Unless we’ve jack-o’-lantern’d them, in which case they mold and like—kckck, cave in within 24 hours. I don’t know what’s going on with the pumpkins this year. [Laughs.] But I have had three pumpkins—like, they look normal, but then you see the, like… juice? The pumpkin juice? It’s as if the pumpkin laughed really hard and couldn’t—maybe they’d had a baby? And then a little pee came out? So we got rid of one of them. And I’m like, “Well this was funny. There’s still pumpkin pee on my porch.” So we discovered that another one is leaking. So we clean that up and we throw that one away. And today, I’m walking up the stairs—how many pumpkins did I get? Well, we went to Trader Joe’s. So it was a good deal. So I got quite a few. I even got the weirdo-looking, oooo, it’s a weird pumpkin! This one’s definitely not for carving. And big and weird and like comical looking. That one is rotting from the inside. So I’m a little disappointed. All the—even the little tiny pumpkin that went next to Ellis’s bed! Those things last for like a year! Was completely rotten just two days ago. Less than a month after buying it. So there ya go! Big pumpkin fail. 

00:45:30

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

Hi, One Bad Mothers! I am calling with what is most definitely a fail. I was on a family trip to visit my in-laws with my two sons and my leftie, and we were on a lake in Alabama. Biz, you would appreciate that.

[Biz cheers, comments “Roll tide!”]

And my mother-in-law was teaching me how to do stand-up paddleboarding. So… I’m on the board. And she is helping me. And trying to steady me. And she was teaching me what do so I wouldn’t fall. And my mother-in-law and father-in-law are very conservative Christian people. Don’t cuss. And I started to lose my balance. And my husband and my two sons were watching, and my father-in-law and of course my mother-in-law was right there trying to steady me, and I screamed, “SHIT!” 

[Biz laughs.] 

And then I realized I shouldn’t cuss, but in my panic and while I’m trying not to fall, I just started screaming, “Balls! Balls!” Over and over and over again. 

[Biz laughs.] 

And then after about ten times, I stopped and I steadied myself and I said—very nicely—after screaming “Balls!” like this, “BALLLLS!” 

[Biz laughs.] 

I very nicely stopped and said, “Excuse my language, please!” And then I paddled away. And no one spoke of it again. Thanks for listening. Thanks for doing what you do. I thought you would like that. Shit balls. 

00:46:53

Biz 

Host

I did. I liked it. The whole time I kept thinking, “I really hope that she reenacts it. I hope that she reenacts it.” And then you did! ‘Cause I wanted to know the full degree to which you were yelling “Balls!” on a lake in Alabama, which I’m sure carried throughout the deeply-conservative and Christian state. I’m pretty sure “Balls!” is okay. I was Catholic in the South. I think “Balls!” might be alright. Either way, it’s nothing you wanna yell in front of your mother-in-law. And I like the idea of you paddling away, just far, far away. Just never—never to return. You’re like, “I apologize for my language.” Paddle. Paddle. Paddle. [Laughs.] Just never come back. Well, you are doing a horrible job. I don’t know. Controlling your inner demons? I don’t know. That can’t be right. I can’t think of anything to say. Balls!

00:47:55

Music

Music

“Mom Song” by Adira Amram. Mellow piano music with lyrics.

You are the greatest mom I’ve ever known.

I love you, I love you.

When I have a problem, I call you on the phone.

I love you, I love you.

[Music fades out.]

00:48:19

Promo

Clip

Guitar strums.

John Moe: Hey, it’s John Moe. And look, these are challenging times for our mental and emotional health. I get it. That’s why I’m so excited for my new podcast, Depresh Mode. We’re tackling depression, anxiety, trauma, stress—the kinds of things that are just super common but don’t get talked about nearly enough. Conversations that are illuminating, honest, and sometimes pretty funny. With folks like Patton Oswalt, Open Mike Eagle, and Kelsey Darragh.

Speaker 2: Now I can kinda go like, “Oh, yeah, there’s that thing where I feel like I’m in a videogame and my hands aren’t real and I’m living The Truman Show. Okay. This, too, shall pass.”

John: Plus psychiatrists, psychologists, and all kinds of folks. On Depresh Mode, we’re working together. Learning. Helping each other out. We’re a team! Join our team! Depresh Mode, from Maximum Fun. Wherever you get your podcasts.

00:49:07

Promo

Clip

[A restless crowd chatters indistinctly.]

Music: Upbeat rock music.

Jordan Crucchiola: You’re in the theatre. The lights go down. You’re about to get swept up by the characters and all their little details and interpersonal dramas. You look at them and think, “That person is so obviously in love with their best friend. Wait, am I in love with my best friend?! That character’s mom is so overbearing. Why doesn’t she stand up to her? Oh, good god, do I need to stand up to my own mother?!” We never know when we’ll see ourselves in a movie, but that search for recognition is exactly what we’re going to talk about on the podcast Feeling Seen, with me! Jordan Crucchiola. Each episode, we’ll bring in a guest to talk about the films that they see themselves in and also the ways that movies have fallen short. So, join me every Thursday for the Feeling Seen podcast, here on Maximum Fun or wherever you find your podcasts!

[Music fades out.]

00:49:55

Biz 

Host

Alright. It is time… to listen to a mom have a breakdown. 

00:50:02

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

Hi, there! This is a rant. It’s just so hard. I bought these Halloween costumes for my daughters and I was so excited. They were just Wonder Woman and Princess Jasmine, and I knew they would love them. And anyway. Today my daughters found the costumes in my closet and I got mad at them. I yelled at them. I said, “Don’t go looking in my closet. Leave it alone. Don’t come in here again.” And then I left. And sure enough, they went back, put the costumes on, and they didn’t listen. And so now I have to take the costumes away. And my husband and I talked about it. They are not getting the costumes for Halloween this year. And… y’know, I was so excited about it! And I feel like we have to follow through with this, but it just sucks. And they were really upset. And I hope this kind of gets through to them that they don’t lie? Especially my older one. She’s been lying a lot. And my husband and I are just sick of it. So we’re hoping that by having this consequence it goes away, but it just sucks! Because I was really excited about it. And… y’know? I know it’s a small problem, and—[sighs.] But it’s really hard and, y’know, I’ve just gone back to work, too, and it’s a lot going on. So… yeah. I don’t know. I know I’m doing a good job, but sometimes it’s hard to follow through with these consequences. So that’s it. you’re all doing a great job. I am too, but doesn’t make it any easier sometimes. Bye. 

00:51:57

Biz 

Host

Wow. You are doing—god, you’re doing such a good job! And you’re right! I’m glad you know it. I am glad that you know it. Okay? I… I think we can miss that and I—in situations like this, it—nobody’s like, “All right! I get to set a consequence for my children! Woo! This is so great!” I mean, it’s hard even—even in the situations in which it’s really obvious. And y’know, I can proudly say I have fucked this up so many times. And so… you give me this strange sense of strength that the next time I won’t fuck it up. And I’ll stick with it. And I… I gotta tell you, that is the—ugh! Oh! I’m so sorry! But I want you to know that that was the right consequence! You did it! It’s like… y’know, I can remember suddenly not being able to go to a sleepover that was really important to me. I can remember having dates cancelled or other plans. Y’know. And not being able to go. And it sucked! Like, I hated it! But… there were lessons learned. As it were. And I know my parents didn’t want to do it, either. But you know what? That’s not even—I don’t think that’s even why you’re calling. It’s not about the act of the consequence and doing it. Like you said, you know you had to do it and you and your husband—you talked about it, you made the choice together, you stuck with it. This is a rant about how much it sucks. And I see you and I hear you. And you are right. It… sucks. This is part of that hard stuff we have to do. And it’s not fun. And… I hate it. Ooh! I hate it even more for you because it’s so centralized in something that you had done to, like… surprise your kids and make them happy. Right? Like, this was something… like, this wasn’t like they ruined their own thing. [Laughs.] They ruined something that you were really connected to in terms of a relationship with them. And I think… that is such an extra gut punch. And I’m… it’s such a reminder of that space of both-ness. Right? Like, the one side knowing you have to do this. You set a consequence, and now you have to go through with it. And at the same time, wish you could just be like, “Okay, let’s just say ‘No TV.’ Here’s your costume!” Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right? “Let’s go trick-or-treating!” Y’know? Like, it’s—[sighs deeply]. It’s just really complicated, and it’s really hard. And I’m really sorry that it is so hard. But you’re not alone. And you’re amazing. And y’know, maybe next time lead with the fact that you just went back to work. That’s kind of a big one. And you’re incredible. You are doing such a good job. 

00:55:07

Biz 

Host

Guys, what did we learn today? You know what I think we learned? I think we learned that like… we’ve made this discovery with other places along the way in parenting. Like, helping our kids? But learning the language and understanding the senses. Right? Giving language to why our body does certain things or why our body can feel so overwhelmed at times or why our body isn’t doing the same thing that somebody else’s body is doing. Right? Like, all of these different things—having a lgnague to go to it? And having a chance to show your child that they aren’t alone? As well as allowing yourself to realize you’re not alone? It’s like—[Laughs.] Now, look. Obviously, the biter is not included in all the stuff we talked about today. I’m just saying, when your kid does something like that, it can be very much like, “This is my fault! And I am the only person. They are gonna come get me.” Right? And then you start to discover other parents and other—you hear other stories. You begin to learn, “No, no, no, no, no. I’m not alone. My kid’s not alone. We aren’t going to be ostracized forever because of a thing.” Or whatever valid fear or anxiety you have surrounding anything that relates to your child. I got a list that goes all the way out the door. The one thing I think that does help and that we can control is giving our kids positive language and positive understanding. And that goes for us, too. Just giving ourselves—changing that narrative. Giving voice to our own feelings and our own experiences. Reminding ourselves that we’re not alone. And no matter how stressful or big or… scary or anxious an experience is, and how it’s making us feel? We can do it. We can do it. We all can do hard things. 

So let’s go out and remind each other that we can do those hard things, and that we’re all doing a good job doing them. And… as well as maybe taking an ounce of empathy and understanding out there as we see other parents and other kids doing things that our kids aren’t doing, and ahh! Turn that self-judgment noise down! You’re all doing an amazing job. And I will talk to you next week. Bye!

00:57:40

Music

Music

“Mama Blues” by Cornbread Ted and the Butterbeans. Strumming acoustic guitar with harmonica and lyrics.

I got the lowdown momma blues

Got the the lowdown momma blues

Gots the lowdown momma blues

The lowdown momma blues. 

Gots the lowdown momma blues

Got the lowdown momma blues

You know that’s right.

[Music fades.]

00:58:03

Biz 

Host

We’d like to thank MaxFun; our producer, Gabe Mara; our husbands, Stefan Lawrence and Jesse Thorn; our perfect children, who provide us with inspiration to say all these horrible things; and of course, you, our listeners. To find out more about the songs you heard on today’s podcast and more about the show, please go to MaximumFun.org/onebadmother. For information about live shows, our book and press, please check out OneBadMotherPodcast.com.

00:58:32

Theresa

Host

One Bad Mother is a member of the Maximum Fun family of podcasts. To support the show go to MaximumFun.org/donate.

[Music resumes for a while before fading out.]

00:58:56

Music

Transition

A cheerful ukulele chord.

00:58:57

Speaker 1

Guest

MaximumFun.org.

00:58:58

Speaker 2

Guest

Comedy and culture.

00:58:59

Speaker 3

Guest

Artist owned—

00:59:01

Speaker 4

Guest

—Audience supported.