TRANSCRIPT Oh No, Ross and Carrie!: Ross and Carrie Become Conscious (Part 5): The Great Linda Moulton Howe Sting

Carrie regales Ross with a tale of her own deceptions gone awry, when she attempts a sting operation to test UFOlogist and journalist Linda Moulton Howe’s fact-checking system. How fast does a conspiracy theory take hold?

Podcast: Oh No, Ross and Carrie!

Episode number: 239

Transcript

music

“Oh No, Ross and Carrie! Theme Song” by Brian Keith Dalton. A jaunty, upbeat instrumental.

ross

Hello! Welcome to Oh No, Ross and Carrie. The show where we don’t just report on fringe science; spirituality; and claims of the paranormal—but! Take part ourselves!

carrie

Yep! When they make the claims, we show up so you don’t have to. I’m Carrie Poppy!

ross

And I’m Ross Blocher. And we’re back at the Conscious Life Expo!

carrie

Yeahhh!

ross

I know you were all waiting—wait, what happened?! I wanna know the rest of the story!

carrie

Yeah. Sorry for our diversion into coronavirus? But we are back, babyyy!

ross

So for anybody else who hasn’t been following along, the Conscious Life Expo is an annual conference in Los Angeles at the LAX Hilton. Thankfully, it came right before everything started getting cancelled. So we got to go.

carrie

Oh, right. Yeah.

ross

[Through laughter] Yeah. Well, some of our other events have definitely been cancelled.

carrie

Yep.

ross

And some of them have moved online. Anyways! It’s an interesting world we live in now. But! Let’s take you back to February!

carrie

So Conscious Life Expo—if you haven’t heard about it yet, you wanna go back a little bit ‘cause this is episode five of this series. Not that you won’t understand.

ross

Mm-hm. Mm-hm.

carrie

But it’ll give you a broader picture. But they are a… an expo where a bunch of people who make wild claims come together.

ross

Yeah! And quite the intersection of our interests for the show—

carrie

Mm-hm.

ross

—are represented there at the conference. You’ve got aliens. You’ve got crystals.

carrie

Faith healers.

ross

Water treatment systems.

carrie

Religious leaders. People who… record your voice and play it backwards and tell you what it’s—you’re saying to yourself.

ross

Oh, we’ll get there.

carrie

I wonder what that sounds like backwards!

ross

[Clip played backwards] Ereteglewoh!

carrie

Anyway. Uh… so as we were telling this story originally, I hinted that I was gonna come back a couple of things because they were sort of still alive.

ross

Yeah! I was so excited the first day—within—I don’t know. Within an hour of wandering into the building, I saw Linda Moulton Howe.

carrie

Ugh! I love her!

ross

And she has been… [sighs.] Our rock? [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

She is… there’s service within her. And it is the jewel in her. [Ross laughs.] So what would you call her?

ross

Well I feel like a sense of attainment—

carrie

Mm-hm. When you think of her?

ross

In that I’ve met her!

carrie

Mm-hm.

ross

So really, she is— [Both laugh.]

carrie

She [though laughter] She is the rock that containeth. [Ross laughs.]

crosstalk

Ross and Carrie: The jewel… which is service.

carrie

Inside of her.

ross

Okay. That’s—that’s a very long reference to the—

crosstalk

Ross and Carrie: Aetherius Society.

carrie

An episode from four years ago. Anyway! Is that right? Four years ago?

ross

Who knows.

carrie

Ugh! Something like that—

ross

Actually, that sounds about right! ‘Cause I had just gotten my new Prius C when that investigation happened. It is a 2014 car, so. Yes!

carrie

Well, well.

ross

Five years, maybe! Going on six—who knows.

carrie

I’ve ridden in the trunk of that car.

ross

[Laughs.] Yeah! Not many people can say that.

carrie

[Laughs.] Can any other people say that?

ross

Not many living people can say that. [Laughs.]

carrie

[Laughs.] Uh-oh! Hm! Okay!

ross

This went dark. [Both laugh.]

carrie

Yes. You mentioned Linda Moulton Howe because you knew the secret. You knew that I was going to go to a Linda Moulton Howe talk.

ross

Yes. Okay. And who is Linda Moulton Howe that we should serve her?

carrie

Uhhh… Linda Moulton Howe do we sum her up? [Ross laughs.] She is… a luminary.

ross

[Singing to the tune of The Sound of Music’s “Maria”] How do you solve a problem like Linda Moulton Howe? [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

But “Howe” with an “e.” She—[makes exhaling “pbhthhht” noise] She’s a thought leader?

ross

Mm-hm.

carrie

She is a journalist.

ross

As much as that term “thought leader” has meaning, it applies to her. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

She is an independent journalist. She is a documentarian.

ross

Mm-hm.

carrie

And she got her start by making a documentary about—

ross

Cattle mutilations?

carrie

Yeah. And the like.

ross

Okay. Which is often tied to alien activity.

carrie

Right.

ross

“These cuts are too precise! They removed everything except for the skin! No wild animal could’ve done this!”

carrie

Yeah. When Ross says they’re often tied to alien activity, he doesn’t mean aliens did it, but that people think aliens did it.

ross

Correct.

carrie

Yeah. But she kind of broke her teeth on that. [Through laughter] Broke her teeth on those animals. Uh—oh my god, it’s her! She actually got a regional Emmy for that work.

crosstalk

Ross: Oh. Okay. Carrie: Yes.

carrie

And has since been one of the big speakers in the UFO community talking about UFOs; aliens; and especially government whistleblowers.

ross

And we covered some of her previous presentations in our Ozark Mountain UFO Conference episodes, and also at Contact In The Desert.

carrie

Also known as the “Summer of UFO 2017.”

ross

And our favorite summation of Linda Moulton Howe came from one of the presenters- [Carrie laughs.] [Though laughter] —at the Ozark Mountain Conference, who—after a panel discussion—someone came up to him and I just happened to be nearby and someone said, wow, it’s just—I—I can’t believe the things that she’s revealing! This is so cool! The host said—yep. You never know what’ll come out of her face. [Carrie laughs.] [Through laughter] And you could just tell that he took her with quite the grain of salt, even amongst—

carrie

He wasn’t sure.

ross

—all the other UFO believers and conspiracy theorists.

carrie

Yeah. I think we were passing by him—I—I can see him saying it. I think we were passing by him in the lobby as this happened. What a glorious thing to witness. [Ross laughs.] Uh, but ever since I’ve been a very big fan of Miss Howe. She’s so delightful. And I don’t want—listen. Do I think she’s kooky? Yes. Do I think she believes some things that are probably not true? Yes. But also, she’s a delight! You just like—you get the feeling you wanna hang out with her? And she sees the world the way someone who’s just doing pot for the first time sees the world? Just full of awe. Just like—

ross

Yeah!

carrie

Look at this! Can you believe everything around us?! And you’re like, Cindy, you’re on shrooms. It’s gonna be fine in two hours.

ross

It’s a bit like Huell Howser.

carrie

Yeah!

ross

But in the alien set. Like, oh, you just have a joy for life and this implicit trust in everything you hear and this very interesting way of looking at the world.

carrie

Yeah. And it fills you with wonder and so we all just want to watch it.

ross

If you were to map your feelings towards other people on maybe a triangle of affinity, reality, and communication, uh, there’s so much affinity for Linda Moulton Howe, even if we don’t necessarily—

crosstalk

Ross and Carrie: —share the reality.

ross

I don’t know where communication is.

carrie

She and I are gonna have some communication.

ross

Hey, okay!

carrie

In this story. [Laughs.]

ross

Alright. Let’s hear about the ARC Triangle—the ARC Triangle of, uh, Linda Moulton Howe.

carrie

That is a Scientology reference. Promise we won’t do this the whole episode.

ross

[Through laughter] Yes. Stop is, Ross! Bad Ross. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

Bad Carrie, too. Okay. So one of her big things over the last couple years has been—and maybe going back further; we’ve only been aware of her a few years—is government whistleblowers. And when we say government whistleblowers, you may think—Edward Snowden!

ross

Right.

carrie

Chelsea Manning!

ross

Right.

carrie

Nope. That’s not what we mean here.

ross

Nope?

carrie

Mm-mm.

ross

Okay.

carrie

She means people who have come to her—typically at UFO conferences—and said, hey, heads up, I used to work for the CIA or FBI or the Navy. And… I have secret information about the powers that be and how they control the flow of information. It usually ties into aliens.

ross

Mm-hm.

carrie

Often it will involve other portals and oh—the—the US Government has access to other dimensions that they don’t want anyone to know about and I’ve been to them! Very, y’know, earth-flipping stuff.

ross

Right. Profound, if true.

carrie

Mm-hm.

ross

Kinds of things. Now I wonder—for her, as those people come to her, if she thinks, like, wow! I found the next Edward Snowden.

carrie

Yeah. I mean, it should be bigger!

ross

Right! Yeah! This is massive information!

carrie

Yeah. It should be enormous. I mean, we look at Edward Snowden and we’re like, oh, okay. The government should’ve have been spying through people’s webcams. Whereas Linda Moulton Howe—

ross

True statement.

carrie

It’s like, oh, yes. The government probably shouldn’t be hiding the fact that we were seeded by aliens and that there is a secret society under Antarctica and that you can walk through portals and be in other dimensions? It’s bigger news.

ross

And if true? Yes!

carrie

Huge! So I just couldn’t wait. I was like—Oh! She’s gonna be at the conference! She’s opposite Russell Brand? I don’t freaking care! [Ross laughs.] Those chumps can go pay $100 or whatever to go see Russell Brand. I know where the action is. I’m gonna pay $40 to see Linda Moulton Howe.

ross

Nice.

carrie

And boy howe-dy was it good! That’s “Howe” with an “e” in there.

ross

Mm-hm.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

Every time you hear “how” in this episode, add an “e” in your mind. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

Just assume. Okay. So this talk was called: “Antarctic Military Whistleblowers—2020 Update.”

ross

Hey! Okay!

carrie

And this was on that Saturday, February 8th. I did buy my ticket to her talk the day of. I was a little worried they’d be sold out but they weren’t. Phew! Now I had thought ahead. I said to myself—I said, Carrie, it seems to me… that Linda… bless her heart. Will repeat anything she hears. And I might be wrong. If I’m wrong, she’s doing a better job and she should prove me wrong!

ross

But looking at the links in the chain here, this seems to be the weak link. Which is her information sources.

carrie

Yeah. It seems like… listen. Maybe sometimes she talks to real people who really have defected from their previous jobs in the government. Possible. But it seems like a person could just walk up to her and say—I was in the FBI. And dogs are secret aliens.

ross

How would you test such a thing, Carrie?

carrie

And she would just repeat it.

ross

Mm-hm.

carrie

Well, uh, I said to myself—uh, yeah. How do you know? How do you know if she does that? I can’t just go around saying she does that! I gotta find out! And there’s only one way I can think of, and that’s to send her a note saying I’m an FBI agent and dogs are secretly aliens.

ross

Oh! You did this! [Both laugh.]

carrie

[Through laughter] So. I—here’s what I done did, Ross. I took out a thank you note and I thought, okay. If I were one of these folks who are in this community who either want to have a laugh with her or maybe harbor a delusion that they were in the FBI, etcetera, how would I approach this? And I thought, I’d wanna thank her! I’d wanna be like, you are the bravest person alive! Right? You’re the only person who’s willing to speak this truth that this underground network of whistleblowers is telling you. You’re amazing. So I got out a thank you note and I got out some gel pens. And I found myself having— [Laughs.] Uh, having different goals inside my heart as I wrote this? ‘Cause I started feeling guilty immediately? [Ross laughs.] And I was like, okay, I’m just gonna throw her a bone. I’m gonna try to make this, like, so obvious?

ross

On its face.

carrie

That she… can just go—this is nuts. Like—

ross

When you told me the premise of this, I thought, oh. Okay. [Carrie laughs.] Yeah. Sure. Dogs are being used by the government. Okay.

carrie

Right. Okay. So here’s what I wrote. In purple and pink gel pen.

ross

Mm-hm. Mm-kay.

carrie

“Dear Linda, thank you for your tireless dedication to the truth. I’ve seen you at several conferences now and I’m always surprised by how many former agents come forward to speak to you! It’s time I did the same. I’m at this conference because I’m sick of holding it in. I must remain anonymous for obvious reasons, but I’m hoping you will tell the truth to the world. For 21 years, I worked as a CIA operative in the ONRAC division.” [Ross laughs.] “These people know everything. I was regularly in contact with extraterrestrials and here’s the reality—Earth was seeded by advanced intelligences from another dimension we call Element 12. The closest beings we have on Earth to the Element 12 people is canis lupus familiaris, or the quote-unquote ‘domestic dog.’”

ross

Hmmm!

carrie

“These are, by far, the smartest animals on our planet and we’ve only gained control accidentally by inbreeding these animals. Mutts are the solution! After enough generations of mutts—not purebreds—we will see a shift in this world toward a higher dimension. The Element 12 people are distraught that we have so many problems. I had to leave the CIA because it was too much to handle. More later, Agent Poppy.”

ross

You’ve given her a lot to google—

carrie

Mm-hm!

ross

—at the very least.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

Did it end with, “P.S. Do you think Bobby likes me?”

carrie

What the fuck is that reference?

ross

It’s just—you were writing in gel pens. [Laughs.]

carrie

Oh! [Laughs.] I did not.

ross

Okay.

carrie

On the outside it says—“Linda Moulton Howe—Urgent and Classified.” On the back there is a sticker of— [Laughs.] A puppy and a kitten.

ross

Hey! Okay! [Laughs.]

carrie

And then in the corner on the back I wrote—DD-214: 55-390-772.

ross

Oh, the 555 is the giveaway. It’s a made-up number.

carrie

Oh. [Laughs.] Yes. If there were a ‘90s movie— [Ross laughs.] —there definitely—so DD-214 is your discharge document if you were ever in the armed services?

ross

Oh!

carrie

And so I was—

ross

Okay!

carrie

I did look up a few things about, like, how would you verify—‘cause she’s probably gained some knowledge about this stuff! How do you verify someone was, like, in the service or really a government agent and one thing is a DD-214. So—

ross

What happens if someone looks that one up?

carrie

Uh, probably you’d find nothing!

ross

Okay!

carrie

Also, if you called, y’know, the CIA and said—Agent Poppy. Ever heard of them? They’d be like… what?

crosstalk

Ross: Right. But they don’t want you to know about it. Alright. Carrie: That—they don’t want you to know. Exactly.

ross

Okay!

carrie

So. Okay.

ross

How did you deliver this to her?

carrie

Okay. So… [Ross laughs.] I get to, uh, Conscious Life Expo. And you weren’t there yet. So I’m kind of wandering around, looking for her or someone I know will be friends with her. Connected to her. And I run into Jimmy Church! [Ross laughs.] So—those who don’t know, Jimmy Church is another member of the UFO community with his own following, but he is also just enrapt by Linda Moulton Howe. He just thinks she is the most amazing person in this whole movement. And, uh, so I saw him, uh, over at his table, talking to a lot of people. Also standing at his table was a woman who, y’know, was clearly there with him but wasn’t currently engaged. So I went up to her and I—I handed it to her and I—I put my most confused look on and I said—I’m sorry, is—is that Jimmy? And she said, yeah! And I said, Jimmy, uh, Church? And she said—yes? And I said, okay. Sorry. I’m so confused. Someone just handed this to me and said to give it to Jimmy Church. But on the front it says Linda something? Do you understand this?

ross

Mmm!

carrie

And, uh, and she said—ah. Yes. I do. [Ross laughs.] And so she took it. And she like slipped it on the table toward him and he looked at it and, y’know, his eyes kind of widened with acknowledgement. Okay. Okay. I see what I’ve got here. Okey-dokey! Okay. So I go on my merry way. [Ross laughs.] Um—

ross

Smart!

carrie

Thank you!

ross

Now you’ve already created—let’s see. One, two levels of remove… from the original information source. So she’s gonna get it from Jimmy. Jimmy’s credible! Oh, he gave me this thing! It says it’s to me! So it gets him imprimatur. But then it came from… you—

crosstalk

Ross: —the person—yes! Right! And—right! Then you! Carrie: From his friend! Well, his friend, then me— [Laughs.]

ross

And then you said you just got it from someone else, presumably the actual information source.

carrie

Right.

ross

Later on, they’re gonna wish—oh. Man. Why didn’t we grab her and ask her more?

carrie

And later they will find that no—even that information source was Agent Poppy’s daughter.

ross

So already there’s at least four links in the chain… leading up to Linda.

carrie

Mm-hm. Mm-hm.

ross

I like—okay! Well done!

carrie

Thank you. Thank you. Okay. So the talk was about a half-hour after that. So I went and lined up. I was—I think I was the—no. That’s not right. I was gonna say I was the first person in line? But that’s not true. There were two superfans in front of me who had clearly been there—like—they were like, we are gonna be the front row.

ross

Oh, you got out-fanned!

crosstalk

Carrie: Mm-hm. Which is hard. Ross: For Linda Moulton—yeah!

carrie

For Linda? Come on! How dare you. [Ross laughs.] So I get in line. You, I think, were thinking about where to go next. You were tempted to go with me.

ross

I think this is when I ended up at the Deborah King talk.

carrie

Ah!

ross

And I’m glad I did! So.

carrie

Yes.

ross

I’m very eager, though. [Carrie makes angelic choir sound. Ross corrects her by making sound more akin to monotone, vibrato digeridoo music—the singing that was done by Deborah King and can be heard in Part 4 of the Conscious Life Expo Series/episode 236.] [Laughs.]

carrie

I already improved in my memory to at least nice— [Laughs.] Like, nice tone. I forgot about the “mwaaaaah” part.

ross

You’re all welcome for the healing I just gave you. [Carrie laughs.] Uh, so yeah! I’ve wanted to know what happened in this room but I didn’t wanna ask you ‘cause we make a podcast!

carrie

I—right. I gave you little tiny pieces of it but couldn’t spoil this! Okay. So Ross?

ross

Mm-hm.

carrie

Here’s what happened!

ross

Mm-kay.

carrie

So… she, uh, she sets up her talk. She’s in the front. Y’know. As soon as she enters there’s this sort of hush like [in hushed tones] Oh, there she’s is. Oh, there she is! We love her! [Regular voice] Uh, so she’s up there moving her laptop around. Doing stuff. And Jimmy Church walks up to her and stands on the stage. And I—I’m, y’know, tuning in to what they’re saying while everyone else is just sort of chatting. And he said to her—Linda? Someone gave this to me to give to you? It’s one of those things.

ross

Oh-ho-ho-ho! And you got to hear him say it!

crosstalk

Carrie: Mm-hm! Yeah! [Laughs.] Ross: Yes! [Laughs.]

carrie

So… uh, so she takes it. She kinda glances at it? I got the impression… maybe this happens often enough that this—these aren’t huge moments for her? Like, she looked at it like, uh, okay. Yeah. One of these!

ross

And having given talks at conferences I know you’re busy thinking about—okay. I need to set things up. Oh! Okay. Alright.

crosstalk

Ross: I’ll take a look at this later. Carrie: Oh, no!

carrie

Right. Yeah! Yeah. That’s a good point. If she thought it was banal, you’d think she’d set it aside. And if she thought it was important you’d think she’d open it. She found a middle ground I never knew was there, which was to hold it the entire talk and never open it! [Laughs.] [Ross laughs.]

crosstalk

Carrie: Entire talk! Ross: That’s funny.

carrie

In her hands! Her cell phone and the note. In her hands. The entire talk! [Laughs.]

ross

Wow!

carrie

Yeah!

ross

I’m trying to think what that’s like. That’s like the teacher catching your incriminating note and carrying it around— [Carrie laughs.] —and you’re like trying to listen to the lesson but you’re like—is she gonna open the note and share it with the class?

crosstalk

Carrie: Totally. It’s like that one episode— Ross: That’s amazing.

carrie

—of the Love Boat where they accidentally hand out that hurricane warning and the whole time you’re like, is someone gonna read it? Is someone gonna read it? And then they do and you’re holding up a picture of Linda Moulton Howe.

ross

Yeah! Well I was just thinking we should describe her a bit. I’d just seen her earlier that same day, so she was probably wearing a red turtleneck with a cross—

crosstalk

Ross: Cross with a— Carrie: Gold—gold colored?

ross

Yeah. Gold with a garnet in the middle? Some kind of red stone. And a black leather jacket on top of that? And a big—she always wears big glasses. These big kind of purplish glasses. She’s got brown hair and it’s shoulder-length and curly.

carrie

Curly. Wavy.

ross

She looks a lot like my mom did for most of my childhood.

carrie

Oh wow! Okay.

ross

This is how my mom—like, take away the leather jacket and you pretty much have my mom.

carrie

Okay! Wow! By the way—just an aside—we are recording this during the massive 2020 covid-19 outbreak? So if you hear any sirens, etcetera—sorry about that. This is a rough time. Anyway! So now we get Jimmy introducing Linda. Which, of course, he’s gonna make a big freaking deal.

ross

Oh. Superlatives.

carrie

Mm-hm.

ross

[Deep voice] This lady. She— [Carrie laughs.] —is bringing us information that is accessible nowhere else. She has access to hundreds of inside sources on government conspiracy and alien cover-ups! [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

Yeah. It was like that, except… not as prepared? Even though I know you just said that off the cuff?

ross

[Through laughter] Okay.

carrie

It was one of those, like—oh, I could go on and on. But I shan’t.

ross

Mm. Mm-hm.

carrie

Uh, well, maybe you should. This isn’t—this isn’t Tom Hanks! [Ross laughs.] Y’know? Come on!

ross

It’s Tom Hanks!

carrie

Come on! You can’t just say it’s Linda Moulton Howe. There are gonna be 20 people in this room who don’t know who she is! Let’s explain it! Y’know.

ross

How many people are in the room?

carrie

Thank you for asking. Let me see if I actually counted and wrote it down. That’s a Ross question and I was missing my Ross… [Ross laughs.] Uh… let’s see. I don’t look at things. I just hear them. I remember counting it! I really do! I remember thinking, now, Carrie—

ross

Ross is gonna ask you this!

carrie

[Through laughter] Ross isn’t here! I’m looking through—I bet ¾ of the way through these notes we’ll find out how many people were there. But I wanna say, like, 80.

ross

Okay!

carrie

Yeah.

ross

Good-sized group

carrie

Yeah! Good-sized group. Not a full room.

ross

Not a Deborah King.

carrie

Oh, right! She was full, right?

ross

Yeah! Yeah!

carrie

Man.

ross

It was a lot. Then again, that talk was free.

carrie

Oh! Fair enough. So Jimmy says—uh, yeah. I could go on and on about her accolades but I won’t! But I will say this—she has traveled to many countries. And then he started naming countries she’s been to? Which is nice. But it wasn’t a specific, like, to do anything.

ross

I just got a picture in my mind of him singing the Yakko song from Animaniacs? [Carrie laughs.] [Through laughter] Where like, you sing all of the countries in the world?

carrie

Oh, I’ve never heard it!

crosstalk

Ross: [Sings tune of the song he’s referencing—a peppy, bouncy tune similar to the “Mexican Hat Dance.”] Carrie: Oh, okay.

ross

And it’s like all the countries of the world and.

carrie

Oh. Okay. Well, he was like—she’s been just about everywhere. And he’s naming all these countries and I’m thinking, okay. Well this talk’s about Antarctica—

crosstalk

Ross: I was gonna say! Carrie: How are you doing to link this in?

ross

Has she been to [deep voice] Antarctica.

carrie

No mention of it. [Ross laughs.] In this intro. Like, at least just say—even if at the end of your list you realize, like, oh, wait. I’m talking about a place she’s never been to! Then be like—but there’s one place… she’s never been. Fortunately, the whistleblowers have told her—y’know!

ross

Yeah!

carrie

Work it in! He didn’t. Anyway. So— [Ross laughs.] He tells us like all these Central American countries she’s been to and then he’s like, and today she’s here in L.A.—Linda Moulton Howe. Okay. [Ross cheers.] Yeah. We’re all very excited. Woo-hoo-hoo! You can tell who the superfans are for sure.

ross

But with all her focus on Antarctica, she should’ve gone there. It’s—it’s not easy to get to? But you can!

carrie

If it’s your life’s work, make it happen!

crosstalk

Carrie: Yeah. Absolutely. Ross: Mm-hm. Mm-hm.

carrie

So she comes up and immediately starts talking about her cats.

ross

Good. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

You’re right! You’re not wrong! She got up and I think someone called out something like, “Where’s Brownie?” One of the—

ross

‘Cause she does all these online videos where she’s holding her various cats—very fluffy cat, she has.

carrie

Yes. She has two cats at least. They’re on her Earthfiles YouTube a lot. [Ross laughs.] I’ve seen them many times. So then she just immediately starts talking about her cats. “Oh, yes, my cats—y’know? I always say that cats create a pressure in your chest. Y’know, when you hold ‘em up and there’s just a pressure in your chest?”

ross

I don’t always say that.

carrie

I’ve heard her say this a few times now on YouTube since this talk?

ross

Okay!

carrie

And I keep thinking she’s just talking about love?

ross

Okay!

carrie

I think she’s talking about love!

ross

At least she’s not talking about a hypnogogic vision—

carrie

Of a cat like sitting on her chest? [Laughs.]

ross

Yeah! You—‘cause that’s one of the—that’s one of the symptoms of the common experiences is to have that weight on the chest?

carrie

Right! Right. That’s where we get—

ross

Where her cat just comes and lays on her as she’s falling asleep?

carrie

[Through laughter] Right? Probably not that? But now you gotta wonder! So she says, yeah. So those of you who watch my YouTube stream, you know that I share my cat love! Okay. Well I just gotta tell you about my work. Oh boy. How do you describe Linda Moulton Howe’s style of speaking? There are so many threads to follow.

ross

Mm-hm.

carrie

I was so glad I had taken my ADD medication that day ‘cause it took so much focus to be like, okay. okay. Oh, she’s saying that, which comes back to the—okay. [Ross laughs.] I think I foll—oooh! It was so hard. So she—she said—my work is 18 hours a day. This is what I devote my entire life to is this work. So first of all, girl, get more sleep.

crosstalk

Carrie: You shouldn’t get six hours of sleep! Ross: 18 hours! Yeah!

carrie

Yeah. Unless some of it is while she’s asleep, which seems possible.

ross

That’s fair. Getting downloads and stuff.

crosstalk

Carrie: Right! Yeah. Ross: Yeah! Okay.

carrie

Or having cats sit on her chest. So she says she started this work by trying to get to the bottom of, uh, animal mutilations. Like I told you about earlier. But then quickly it became about UFOs and the—the hidden structure beneath society. Then just a few years ago, she started having Marines come forward and tell her that they had seen UFOs! And she thought at the time—she thought, okay. Finally. Like, we have confirmation that this stuff is real. I’m finally gonna see the big headlines—aliens are real!

ross

Yeah! Payoff!

carrie

Right? And she’s expecting that and it doesn’t come! [Ross sighs.] Uh, and then she said an astronomer named Donald McDowell was murdered right around then? Not familiar with that name.

ross

Oh. No.

carrie

Donald… Ross is googling it.

ross

Okay. Well I assume not the member of the Wisconsin State Assembly. Astronomer?

carrie

Yeah. That’s what she said. Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh. [Ross laughs.] Desexualizing a sexualized term! [Laughs.]

ross

Uh, nothing’s coming up with that at least.

carrie

Okay. Well, anyway. All these events sparked her interest in getting more into UFOs. So today, she’s going to tell us about how that connects to her newest film, called Antarctica: Spirits Beneath the Ice. And this is her opus. This is what she has been working toward—and we should mention also, she’s probably approaching 70. So when she says this is like her life’s work, she means, like, this is what it’s all been leading toward.

ross

Wow. But there’s this envelope that looks like— [Carrie laughs.] —it might give me a new purpose and direction.

carrie

Yeah! Entirely possible. But I really like cats and this one’s about dogs.

ross

Oh, yeah.

carrie

I did think that—actually, as I was listening to her go on about her cats I was like, fuck. Shoulda said cats. Shoulda said cats.

ross

Yeah. Giving dogs to a cat person.

carrie

Yeah. Tough. So she said, now I can’t share everything I know because I hold the same standards that the New York Times hold. I have to find three sources for every claim before I repeat it!

ross

Hey!

carrie

Good!

ross

Yeah!

carrie

Good! It’s important that you don’t put a booger in the punch bowl by saying to source #2—have you ever heard [blank]? That’s really important.

ross

It’s—yeah. Very important how you ask these questions. And verifying your sources. [Ross and Carrie agree with each other.]

carrie

So we’ll see if that comes up.

ross

Okay.

carrie

Um… so she says, listen. The government’s job is to counter the real facts. That is why they’re here. And three years ago, a Marine analyst who I will call Spartan 1 introduced himself to me at… the Ozark Mountain UFO Conference!

ross

Really!

carrie

Mm-hm.

ross

Okay!

carrie

He pulled her aside and they talked for seven hours. And he told her that marines know the secrets of the Face on Mars. I do too.

ross

As do I.

carrie

They’re shadows.

ross

Mm-hm.

carrie

Mm-hm.

ross

Yeah. It was a low-resolution photo. Then a high-resolution photo came out with different lighting and we realized—oh, it’s not a face!

carrie

Mm-hm.

ross

‘K.

carrie

And we’re evolved to look for faces.

ross

But I’m guessing that’s not the secrets that marines know.

carrie

Uh, no. Uh, there is a pyramid on the moon that is the same as the one on Earth. I assume she means the largest one.

ross

Oh, the one with the stairs that go up!

carrie

[Through laughter] The ascending stairs. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

ross

Oh no! I did—I did another reference to another investigation! Sorry.

carrie

Uh, so he tells her all this stuff. He tells her that extraterrestrials and the government have manipulated us to make us dumb and blind.

ross

Mm. Mm-hm.

carrie

And ever since then, whistleblowers have been coming to Linda with dangerous information. So her I start writing down, like, she’s still holding my note! [Laughs.] [Ross laughs.] So she says, okay. So I can’t believe how my life has taken a turn since then. I recently found out that one of my books has been in a meeting at the Pentagon—a firsthand source told me that.

ross

Whoa!

carrie

Yeah!

ross

Did she verify that with two others.

carrie

I don’t think so? And the Pentagon’s very big. And a book being in it might sound a little more important than it is.

ross

And sometimes people like us read books ironically?

carrie

Mm-hm. Or—yeah. [Through laughter] Books that we expect to not fully buy. Yes. [Laughs.]

ross

Guys, [though laughter] look at what this woman is saying about what we do here!

crosstalk

Ross: At the Pentagon! Carrie: Right! Yeah.

carrie

Entirely possible it was that. Um, or that someone gave it to their friend who works at the Pentagon and was like, you guys gotta check this out. And they’re like, uh, I got it. Y’know. One of those. Anyway. So she says—and I’ve been threatened and I know things that you wouldn’t believe. Antarctica, the moon, and Mars all have the same architecture. What?

ross

Antarctica, the moon, and Mars have the same architecture. Okay. So a similar—similar style. Frank Lloyd Wright. Frank Gehry.

carrie

[Through laughter] Right. Same architect!

ross

Coffin and Brode.

carrie

God?

ross

You can just see a similarity.

carrie

[Through laughter] Yeah. Right. I—and—she is—I’ll give her this. [Imitating Linda Moulton Howe’s earnest and emphatic speech patterns.] She is such a gifted orator; the actual science of expressing things in a way that the words could be completely empty of meaning? And you would still just be along for the ride of the experience of her speaking! [Regular voice] I’m writing, like, Antarctica, moon, and Mars all have the same architect—uh-huh—wait, what?! [Ross laughs.] Y’know, but she has moved on?

ross

Right! And the way it’s presented just sounds—it sounds right! So.

carrie

Yeah. We’re on this train and we’re going!

ross

So with someone like Linda Moulton Howe, I get it. I get why people kind of like follow along. Get into it and are excited by it. We—we’ve talked about other groups and speakers where we just wonder—how is any—

carrie

What is the appeal?

ross

Yeah. There are so many people without that level of charisma!

carrie

Yeah!

crosstalk

Ross: And—and yet! Carrie: Harold Klemp!

ross

Yes! And we haven’t talked much yet about Shakuntali. But that might come up again. It’s—maybe. [Laughs.]

carrie

We’ll see. [Laughs.]

ross

And I listen and just think, oh, this is so boring!

carrie

Yeah! Vapid.

ross

It’s vapid but you can also tell it’s vapid. ‘Cause—

carrie

Right. It’s not even delivered well.

ross

The delivery’s boring. Yeah. But definitely not Linda Moulton Howe’s problem.

carrie

Yeah! Linda could read you IKEA directions and she’d be like—[imitating LMH again] and take the—the sofa and put the leg on it but you need two people!

crosstalk

Carrie: You’d be like, whoa! Ross: Okay! Two people!

carrie

I never thought about that! The world does need teamwork! Wow! She’s right! Anyway. Um—

ross

Same architecture—Antarctica, Mars, and—

carrie

The moon.

ross

The moon. Gotcha.

carrie

Okay. So one guy, uh, that is a source of her has—has been to all three. The moon, the Mars, and Antarctica. So we already know—you and I know—this guy is… we have a couple options. [Ross laughs.] Liar, legend, lord! He’s either making this up; or he has a mental health problem—

ross

Mm-hm. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. We got the lunatic, we got the legend—yes.

carrie

Mm-hm. Or it’s true. But those seem—that—that seems far less likely than the others.

ross

Yeah. Let’s try to rule out some of those other ones first before we even give that a passing glance.

carrie

Yeah. So let’s see which of these seems right as we keep going. So it turns out we’re gonna be talking about two different sources—Spartan 1 and Spartan 2. Those are the nicknames she gave them. So she—as you might expect—she met Spartan—oh, no! I was gonna say “as you might expect she met Spartan 1 first,” but that’s not true! She met [though laughter] Spartan 2 first! [Ross laughs.] So—so she meets this one guy and she was being a very good reporter. She said, well, I can’t just take all this as gospel unless someone else confirms it. Do you know anyone else who might confirm it? And he said, yes! Spartan 1! But obviously said Spartan 1’s real name. And she said, great! And then she went to Spartan 1 and was like—hey, Spartan 2 said he’s been to the moon and Antarctica and Mars. And they all have the same architecture. Can you confirm that? And Spartan 1 was like, yes! [Laughs.] [Ross laughs.]

ross

As Carrie said that, her eyes did this quick little, like, glancing aside like, oh, this is fun! Yes! [Laughs.]

carrie

Right! [Laughs.] Right.

crosstalk

Carrie: Uh, why not? Ross: That’s not how—

ross

Not how you ask—that’s a leading question. That’s leading the witness.

carrie

Uh-huh! Uh-huh!

ross

And—okay. I’m—I’m not gonna think too hard about the Spartan 1/Spartan 2 thing. Did they give themselves these names?

carrie

No. I think she did.

ross

Okay. But then she started the naming when she met the second one and she said—well, shoot. I’ve already called you Spartan 1. I guess—chronologically—

carrie

No! She met Spartan 2 first!

ross

That’s right. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

I think though—

ross

[In robotic voice] My brain can’t do this!

carrie

I think she later determined that Spartan 1 was the person who had more experience.

ross

The more primary source.

carrie

Yeah.

crosstalk

Ross: Alright. Well, that’s fair. That’s fair. Okay. Carrie: So he’s Spartan 1. Yeah. Yeah.

carrie

Okay. So— [though laughter] so she’s talking to these two guys who—first of all—like, are friends! Like, it’s very obvious these two guys know each other.

ross

Which essentially collapses two sources into one source.

carrie

Correct. Exactly. So… she’s—she promises them secrecy because they’re afraid for their lives. They could only communicate through FedEx. Um— [Ross laughs.] [Through laughter] [Inaudible.]

ross

It’s got “fed” right in the title!

carrie

Oh, they’re ex-feds! [Both gasp dramatically, then collapse into laughter.]

crosstalk

Ross: Oh, there’s nothing to attach significance— [Laughs.] Carrie: There’s nowhere to go from here! [Laughs.]

ross

Alright.

carrie

[Through laughter] Alright. So she decides—oh my god. There’s too big a story here. This is what my whole life has been leading toward. I need to make a documentary about Spartan 1 and Spartan 2. So— [sad laugh-whimper]. She says, I got all the money together. I paid for it myself. And I—

ross

Aww.

carrie

—booked the rooms and I flew them out. I meet them in these rooms. And she says—and I was the only cameraman. I was the only crew. It is the hardest thing I have ever done.

ross

Aw. I’ve seen a little bit of this footage. They’re both kinda backlit so you can’t see their faces. They’re obscured. And they’re just, like, dudes wearing baseball caps. Right?

carrie

Mm-hm. Mm-hm!

ross

And t-shirts.

carrie

Yeah. I’ll tell you a little more about the film, but that’s—that’s a good summation. And, y’know. Bad audio. I mean, it’s fine. It’s—like, I don’t—I don’t know that I could make something even that well by myself! But we’re not talking fine art. [Laughs.] Okay. So she starts showing us some clips from this movie, which—by the way—you can see on Amazon Prime.

ross

Ooh!

carrie

Um, I think it’s $3 to rent. So she’s pointing at one of the sources and she’s like, this is—this is Spartan 1. And right before we met to shoot this, he tells me that a guy in all black shows up to his door and holds him at gunpoint.

ross

Whoa.

carrie

So she didn’t actually see this, but Spartan 1 told her afterward. And this guy says to Spartan 1—never speak to Linda Moulton Howe.

ross

Mm-kay. So Spartan 1 is dead now because he did talk to Linda Moulton Howe?

carrie

No—so there’s a little bit of a twist!

ross

Is he in jail?

carrie

Nope.

ross

Okay.

carrie

Interesting. No.

ross

He suffered serious consequences of some other sort?

carrie

Mm… maybe? But probably not? Here’s what done happen.

ross

A real credible threat.

carrie

Spartan 1 says to Linda—as he’s telling this story—I have been trained to kill anyone in under 10 seconds. So I punched him in the jugular and he dropped to the ground and I told him to [yelling] crawl away! [Laughs.]

crosstalk

Carrie: Ah. That didn’t happen, Spartan 1. Do you just have a crush on Linda Moulton Howe and you’re bragging now? Ross: Alright. Yeah. And that’s not how that—that’s not how that—

ross

Oh my goodness. [Carrie laughs.] None of that is how that works. So okay. You punched the guy. You show him that in hand-to-hand combat you can take him down—great. They can kill you many other ways.

carrie

[Through laughter] Right! They work for the government!

ross

If they wanted you dead, you’d be dead. They wouldn’t play by Queensberry rules.

carrie

Yes. Queensberry rules.

ross

Y’know, like where you put your dukes up and you hold proper stance and—

crosstalk

Ross: “There’ll be no punching—” Carrie: Oh! There’s a name for that!

ross

“There’ll be no punching below the belt!” and— [Laughs.]

carrie

Oh, right Okay. Okay. You don’t wanna be the first to shoot, etcetera. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

ross

Right. Right. They’re not gonna obey these rules of engagement.

carrie

Right. Okay. Yeah. Propriety.

ross

That’s somehow gonna protect him because he knows how to take someone down in under 10 seconds.

carrie

And yet—that’s what happens! So, uh, so Linda says—now, Spartan 1 and Spartan 2—they show up at this hotel room and they brought six guns. And they told me to get on the ground if anyone came through the window. And everyone goes—[gasping]. No one comes to the window in this story, but they apparently showed up with guns? Scary, if accurate.

ross

How would you describe the furnishings in the hotel? Were they… spartan? [Laughs.]

carrie

Actually, yes! [Ross laughs.] It was pretty empty!

ross

Hey! Alright!

carrie

So as an aside, she says—now, y’know, I must say these were really reputable sources. I checked them many times. And in fact, originally Spartan 1 told me his rank in the Marines and I went to check and that rank doesn’t exist? [Laughs.] Uh, so I had to go back… and re-test him. And ask him new questions to make sure he hadn’t lied? And he said—oh, yeah. Gosh. I don’t even know why I said this. It must’ve just been this slip of the mind. No, I had this other rank. And that was a real one. That was her test.

ross

Awww. You were—you were doing so well!

carrie

Yeah! It’s like she has three-quarters of the concept and then just doesn’t deliver.

ross

Yeah. Knowing half a thing can be pretty dangerous.

carrie

Poor thing. Okay. So. One of the main things she learned from Spartan 1 and Spartan 2 is that there are structures under Antarctica that were built before the ice came. So, uh, Spartan 1 reported that he had to actually go extract a scientist who was stuck under the ice as part of his job. His secret job with the Marines. Ross, you look confused.

ross

Well, yeah! As I recall, she keeps talking about the timeline of Antarctica being like 35 million years old. This ancient time when these things were built? [Carrie agrees repeatedly.] So this scientist—is this scientist from 35 million years ago or is this a more recent scientist who came to icy Antarctica and got stuck there?

carrie

[Breathes in deeply.] Great Q’s, no A’s.

ross

Alright. Okay.

carrie

I’m not sure. But… when he dug under the ice and found this scientist, the scientist didn’t want to leave and Spartan 1 had to just give up on the project of extracting him?

ross

Uh. ‘Cause—yeah. How long had the scientist been there? Did the scientist, when dug out, say, like, oh, actually I’ve got a great thing going here! See? I have a food source!

carrie

Yeah! There’s a whole society under here!

crosstalk

Carrie: Come on down! Ross: I’m happy and getting my work done and I’ve been here for maybe thirty—

carrie

[Through laughter] Getting my work done. [Laughs.]

crosstalk

Ross: Well he’s a scientist! Clearly that’s gonna be important! Carrie: Yeah! Nope! Totally! Yep!

ross

Uh, I don’t know where he’s publishing his research, but. [Laughs.]

carrie

I—I could use some Vitamin D supplements, but otherwise I’m fine. [Laughs.] [Ross laughs.]

ross

How long has he been there? Has he been there two months? Has he been there 35 million years? We dunno! [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

Yeah! I really don’t know.

ross

Just trying to picture this scenario and I’m—

carrie

It’s possible that she answered that question. There’s so much info flying. Um… okay. So she says that she learned from Spartan 1 that advanced intelligences are working at the molecular level to make every single thing on earth. And in Antarctica—this is a direct quote I wrote down ‘cause I did not understand it. “In Antarctica, a room is like being in a computer that will self-program forever.”

ross

Yeah. Okay. That will remain a mystery. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

I—I—so—I—what I’m kind of picturing is you’re kind of like in a dreamlike world where everything just keeps getting recreated ‘cause someone’s making it over and over maybe?

ross

It’s a holodeck?

carrie

Yeah! Holodeck! Sure!

ross

I don’t know.

carrie

I don’t know.

ross

Okay. I’ve gotta insert here that all of this Antarctica sounds reminiscent of the one HP Lovecraft book that I’ve actually read—At the Mountains of Madness.

carrie

Okay. Oh, great title!

ross

Yeah. So essentially you have this group that goes down to Antarctica to explore and it turns out that there is this ancient civilization there. And these giant megalithic stone structures and they find their way in there and it turns out that there are these aliens from HP Lovecraft’s collection of nasty, brutish, destroying aliens. And they start eviscerating everybody. But it just—it so smacks of that? Everything she describes with discovering all these caverns and buildings and structures and civilization hidden in Antarctica. Uh, so I was thinking that. And then somebody sent us an article after the Conscious Life Expo and said, hey, this is an interesting write-up! And the author of that article also made that point, that this sounded derivative of At the Mountains of Madness. So I just thought it was kind of interesting. That was the one book I had read and saw that similarity.

carrie

That’s interesting. It reminds me of, uh, there’s a researcher named Joe Nickell who, uh, one of his great accomplishments is tracking the way that our perception of aliens has changed, especially in American culture. From like 1930-ish on. And it’s clearly driven by pop culture.

ross

Right. This is when the episode of The Outer Limits came out. Then the Betty and Barney Hill abduction happened.

carrie

Betty and Barney and their dog.

ross

Oh, I’m sorry. Wait—don’t tell me!

crosstalk

Ross: Starts with a “D”? Carrie: Starts with a “D.” [Laughs.]

carrie

Darla? That’s not it. But it’s something like that.

ross

I’m impressed, uh—

carrie

Delphi?

ross

That I said “D” and you also said “D.”

carrie

Delulah? Destitute?

ross

Wait. I almost had it for a second. Delbin. Del…

carrie

It’s a girl.

ross

Okay.

carrie

Betty… Hill… dog… search. Delsey.

ross

Delsey! Okay!

carrie

Delsey Hill. Forgotten Delsey Hill.

ross

Well, not forgotten anymore. Anyways. You know. It was very clear afterwards. Like, oh, they saw that episode of The Outer Limits. And they’re describing the aliens they saw there.

carrie

Exactly. These things are self-referential and you don’t have to be lying to crib. Sometimes it’s just living in your head.

ross

This is now what your brain goes to when it’s trying to build a picture of aliens and every time we access our memories they get a little corrupted by all of those media influences. Uh, Susan Clancy used the term “culturally available explanations.” Which I think is really powerful for situations like that.

carrie

Yeah. So Antarctica was created in an instant with an advanced computer! Did you know that?

ross

Now I do.

carrie

Yeah. Cool.

ross

In an instant. Ah.

carrie

In an instant. So at this point, Russell Brand is next door and he is very loud. And he’s joking and clapping and everybody’s—Wooo! Duh duh duhhh! And she’s got this very quiet intensity? So this is just a real uncomfortable contrast.

ross

You would’ve preferred maybe more of a faint Russell-ing. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

Yes. Yes. I would. [Laughs.] [Ross laughs.] It took me a second to understand, but yes. Spartan 1 also reported that he would disappear and reappear when he was in Antarctica, and if he touched anything, uh, his hand would move through it and it would become a portal and then he’d walk through the portal into a world unlike ours. No scientist on his team could figure out what the walls were made of—it was some black basalt that we don’t have on this planet, Ross!

ross

How does he know that?

carrie

How do you know it’s basalt without it being basalt! We’ve got that!

ross

Have you been to the Giant’s Causeway? Like, how do you know what—

carrie

What does that mean? It’s just a thing you can say. [Ross sighs exasperatedly.] Ugh. Also, even if we didn’t know a thing—like, new species of animals are discovered every week!

crosstalk

Carrie: If we just didn’t know—it doesn’t mean anything! It’s just—yeah. Ross: What a statement to make! Yeah. Meaningless.

carrie

Meaningless. Meaningless! Anyway. She—she said that one of the things she kept hearing about were the markings on the doors. There were these circular ancient suns that were carved on the doors and she pulls one up and she says—now, you might find that it reminds you of… the Nazis. And she pulls it up and indeed it does remind me of the Nazis, Ross. And—

ross

Is it a swastika?

carrie

This is because it is a swastika! [Ross laughs.]

ross

[Through laughter] Oh no! Not again! [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

It’s not a—I wanna say it’s not a perfect swastika? Not that any swastika is perfect— [Ross laughs.] It’s not exactly a swastika. It is very close. Like, the feet—if you will—of the swastika are more connected?

ross

Okay.

carrie

But it’s a goddamn swastika!

ross

Why?!

carrie

Why? Because these dudes—I think—are out-Carrie-ing Carrie and are like… [yelling] we are throwing you a bone, Linda!

ross

So you can say this is ridiculous.

carrie

Right.

ross

Why are you punking me.

carrie

Right. But—you don’t need to throw racism into it, guys. But yeah. I think they were just really having a laugh.

ross

Hey, if they’re Lovecraft fans, we’ve already got plenty of racism.

carrie

Oh, is that true?

ross

Oh, HP Lovecraft was an insane racist.

carrie

Oh. Shit. Well, if you are Spartan 1 or Spartan 2 listening to this—email us!

ross

Yes!

carrie

We wanna know you.

ross

[Laughs.] Indeed.

carrie

But prove you are Spartan 1 or Spartan 2—

ross

Uh-oh!

carrie

Eh, we’ll figure it out. Um— [Ross laughs.] So— [Laughs.] Yes. Okay. So Spartan 1 said he actually had photos of these doors! Okay!

crosstalk

Ross: Hey! Yeah! Carrie: Linda! Great!

carrie

Hard evidence! This is amazing! Can’t wait! We are ready! And she says—and so… he didn’t have ‘em with him but he recreated them in drawings.

ross

Nope! Not good enough! [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

Go get them!

ross

Yeah! How about… we don’t have any more conversation until you show me those photos!

carrie

Go get them! Oh! You already came out here from your home? Have your wife fax them!

ross

Yeah. Or you go get them. We can resume this conversation later.

carrie

Because so far—there has been zero evidence of anything you are saying! She starts showing us these drawings that are based on the photos that he took in Antarctica. So one is a star map. Spartan 2 was the one who showed it to her, but then she showed it to Spartan 1 and he said he recognized it. So there— [Laughs.] There ya go!

ross

Nope. Nope. Not verified.

carrie

So she starts showing us this art that she has commissioned to like fill in the gaps of his sketches. It’s just like, oh, hon. Stop paying money for this.

ross

Don’t do his work for him!

carrie

Right! Oh man. But they were—just to give a shoutout to the artist—Volker Springel of Australia had made most of the art.

ross

Okay. The star map thing also reminds me of Betty Hill.

carrie

Yeah! Totally! Well, Betty Hill just drew a dick. [Ross laughs.] But yes. [Laughs.] She—she, too, was like—you gonna believe this? You are! Wow! Amazing. So the—the star maps were generated by the extraterrestrials. And as he was showing her these maps… there was a weird, um, humming sound, I guess? Like, she heard someone going—hummmmmmm. I don’t know. She felt that was notable. So then Spartan 1 implied to her—she said—that he had photos and/or sketches of the door under Antarctica with the star map. But he wasn’t ready to show them to her yet.

ross

Let me know when you’re ready. [Carrie laughs.] Let me know—

carrie

Maybe that’s when you should give this talk!

ross

I feel like… there really is an important link in this chain of like how you get from bad information sources to… conferences like this? Y’know, it takes someone to say these things and draw these things and do these things, but it takes someone else to take them seriously.

carrie

Mm. Mm-hm.

ross

And you were just making the point that, y’know, like with Betty Hill, like—hey, I drew a penis made of stars. Are you gonna call me on it? Are you? No, I guess you’re not.

carrie

Okay!

ross

And I think maybe that’s the more important thing that’s missing. Is just people being willing to say—uh, yeah. No.

carrie

Yeah! Oh. This is totally how religions get formed.

ross

Yeah. We just—

carrie

And cults.

ross

—need people to be able to say—huh. Not buying it.

carrie

I think of, uh, Warren Jeffs, who—who led the FLDS who at one point while he was in prison—someone visited him and there is prison camera footage of him saying, I’m not the prophet. I never was.

ross

Wow!

carrie

And the guy’s like—you are the prophet. You’re having a bad time. And within like a week, Warren Jeffs is like, yeah. Sure. I was going through a thing. I’m the prophet.

ross

That’s interesting. That’s such an explicit call for help. And I feel like kind of with what you were saying earlier—I feel like this even happened with L. Ron Hubbard where like you’ll say something so absurd… where it—it is that call for help! Like, hey, please, somebody just like… call me on it!

carrie

Bring me back to the world of facts.

ross

Oh, you’re not going to? Oh. I guess I just discovered a new limitless… y’know, extension of my ability to say shit.

carrie

Anything!

ross

Yeah.

carrie

Anything I want. Yup. Okay. So she pulls up the star map and she’s like—and, y’know I had to verify this. So… I looked at it and I matched it up with Orion. And she pulls up a picture of Orion.

ross

Mm-kay.

carrie

The constellation.

ross

Yeah. Just like Deborah King was looking at!

carrie

Oh, okay! And… it’s similar—it’s similar.

ross

Okay.

carrie

Okay. But not that similar. I wouldn’t have noticed the connection. Right?

ross

Maybe that’s what Orion looked like 35 million years ago.

carrie

Well. Don’t worry. She had an explanation. She says—these three stars here—they almost match up. And at first I thought—oh, this has to be made up because it doesn’t match. But then I realized—they’re coming from the other way!

ross

Ohhhh. Okay. The—

carrie

So I flipped it 180 degrees—girl! What?! Okay. There’s no up or down in space! I mean, yes, you might come from quote “the other way”—like, a different angle! But it’s not 180 degrees from the two-dimensional representation you happen to be looking at!

ross

Right. Yeah. That’s meaningless. You could do it with the same number of dots you could configure in almost infinite ways and say, oh yeah! It’s just a move to a different angle and location.

carrie

Yeah. All it shows is the limits of the human mind to use… pictures.

ross

Oh. This is so sad! So she—she knows verification is important, but she doesn’t know how to verify anything.

carrie

Right. Correct. Uh—

ross

But she wants it to be true and so then she bends over backwards to… make it true.

carrie

And because it must be very uncomfortable to think these two guys might just be pulling a laugh on you and that you spent a bunch of money on them. They’ve become your friends over three years.

ross

Yeah. So now that there’s a sunk cost fallacy of friendship; of money; of time; of effort.

carrie

Exactly.

ross

Oh, poor Linda.

carrie

I know. And I’m doing it to her too and she’s got it in her hand!

ross

Oh no!

carrie

Um, but don’t worry. I won’t let it go on three years.

ross

Okay.

carrie

Or let her pay me money! Okay. So… then she says—she… [Laughs.] God. So she starts telling us about another source she has. It’s this guy that she’ll call the Big Seal because he is an active Navy Seal and I guess he’s like her big source from that, uh, branch of the military. So the Big Seal sends her email through something called ProtonMail. And ProtonMail is this email service that just sort of jumps through a lot of hoops to encrypt your email for you. Makes it just a little tougher to find the IP address of the person who sent it. So she says—you gotta see what I got on ProtonMail from the Big Seal. And she pulls it up and it’s an email from this guy who says that submarines can actually go much deeper than two miles, and they can access the places in Antarctica. And then she said—and I did check his credentials but I can’t show you. Okay.

ross

Hmm.

carrie

Alright. But she did. Anyway. The Big Seal told her that anything that she wants to know she should just check Google Earth for? Google Earth has all the secrets. Well—

ross

Hey! Okay!

carrie

Those aren’t secrets! [Laughs.] That’s the definition of a secret! Right?

ross

Yeah. Well, I mean, certainly things have shown up on Google Earth that later on governments say, oh! Can you remove that?

carrie

Oh, okay.

crosstalk

Ross: Should say—I mean—you can’t—kinda see everything from satellite view. Carrie: Mm. Fair enough.

ross

That’s all—that’s a whole new way of working! But if it has all the secrets, let’s stop this talk and go there and—

carrie

Go pull it up!

ross

—look at Google Earth!

carrie

Hey, you’ve got a projector right now! Pull it up on your thing!

ross

I mean, it’s got all the secrets from one angle and distance.

carrie

Uh, right. Right. But you just flip it 180 and then you can see what the aliens see.

ross

There ya go.

carrie

So she starts pulling up these images that she’s pulled up on Google Earth and my heart kinda sank for her at this moment. She was like—like—look at these! Look at this picture! Look at this strange underwater structure off the Ross Sea—

ross

Heyyyy!

carrie

There’s a Ross Sea and a Ross Ice Shelf in Antarctica.

ross

And an island. Yep. Doing pretty well down in Antarctica if I do say so myself. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

So she shows us this image and she’s like—look at this rectangular… structure! And it’s like, just—she’s blown it up huge and it is pixelated mist. It just is. Like, that’s—I—you’re looking at it and you’re like, this is—it’s like fog. It—you’re looking at water!

ross

It’s not a hard structure.

carrie

It’s nothing! And I think because it was pixelated she’s seeing the hard barriers of the pixel?

ross

Here we go again with the face on Mars.

carrie

Right!

ross

It’s, uh, pareidolia! Is the—the name of the phenomenon where you see random information or low-res information and you interpolate interesting, more specific information from it. Your brain is so good at generating patterns, especially people’s faces. That’s kinda the first thing we learn to recognize and respond to.

carrie

Yeah! And that’s why we’ll see, like, ghosts in photography. Jesus in toast is the famous example.

ross

Yeah!

carrie

But you—so now I’m like starting to just feel bad for her. Y’know? This is just so silly and like how many of us are buying this, y’know? I don’t know. Anyway. Then she just suddenly tells us that the Big Seal’s name is Mark. So she’s not really great at protecting these sources, which will come up again. He’s, uh, a Georgia Tech grad. He has a masters from somewhere else, she says. That’s how we know he’s for real. I have a masters from somewhere else!

ross

Hey!

carrie

Yeah! So—I don’t know. She keeps showing us these pictures. I wrote down a bunch of examples of them but I won’t make you sit through them. But just—y’know. A bunch of things that I was like, okay. That could be anything or that’s—that’s just definitely a cloud. Uh, but are like very, very persuasive to her. And seem to be persuasive to other people in the room somehow.

ross

Right. There’s always that moment of looking around to your confederates in the audience, like, okay. You guys are—oh. You… you… alright.

carrie

She’s blown her cover! She’s a kook!

crosstalk

Carrie: No? Oh. Yeah. Ross: You’re buying it. Alright.

carrie

So she did tell us that the whistleblowers can’t figure out why the ice in Antarctica is melting? And I just wanted to raise my hand and say—well, I could tell you! I could tell you why ice is melting! There’s a very simple answer to this!

ross

Global warming!

carrie

It’s climate change! Yes. But they’re still trying to figure it out. [Laughs.] [Ross laughs.]

ross

Ohh, this is why we can’t have nice things. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

Um, she shows us another—a face. She’s like, look at this large Asian face on the side of a mountain! And it’s like—it didn’t even look like a face to me. I don’t think I have a strong pareidolia response. But… like, then when I tried to picture what she was seeing I was like, oh, okay. Because the eyes were more like almond-shaped or whatever. It’s just like, oh, girl, what are you doing. Okay. So… as she’s wrapping up, she’s like—now, just think about this. Have you ever heard coverage of any of this? And everyone’s like, no! And I can join in that chorus. She’s like, do you see The Guardian? NBC? CBS? CNN? Do you see them covering what is happening? In Antarctica? We’re like—no.

crosstalk

Carrie: Nope. Ross: No. Lamestream media.

carrie

[Through laughter] Yeah. You got us there! And she says—so who is having control of these gag orders? Who… is keeping us silent about this huge discovery?

ross

Awww.

carrie

I know! And she says—she wants to go to Antarctica herself—like you were mentioning—and she has asked her sources if she can go but she was told that she can’t. That they’re really strict on it. It sounds like Spartan 1 or Spartan 2, though. Who of course are gonna say no. It’s a highly-restricted entrance.

ross

Cool. We’ll go there and video the guards turning you away.

crosstalk

Ross: That—that would—that would be interesting! Carrie: Yeah! Yeah! That would be interesting!

carrie

That’d be something! Yeah. You know what? If you’re listening to this and you do have some sort of access where you could help Linda Moulton Howe… get in—in Austral—in Australia. Goddammit. In Antarctica. [Ross laughs.] ‘Cause Australia doesn’t exist. Tell us! Email us! We’ll try to hook it up!

ross

Yeah. Now, granted, getting around Antarctica is not easy.

carrie

It’s not easy.

ross

I have a friend who just went there recently and she did a artist’s residency program at, uh, McMurdo Station. And yeah! Super awesome. She’s working on a comic about the Scott expeditions. And very much it was all controlled by the weather where you could go which day and you needed escorts ‘cause it’s a dangerous place to be!

carrie

Mm-hm!

ross

‘Cause it’s very cold.

carrie

Mm-hm. Oh! Interesting.

ross

So yeah! I mean, it wouldn’t be easy for her to navigate around and maybe she could spin that as being her being kept out of these places. But.

carrie

Yeah. True. But I bet—I wouldn’t be too surprised if someone listening to this is like, eh, I kinda know the steps to make this happen.

ross

Okay!

carrie

Y’know? We have a lotta smarty-pantses in this crowd!

ross

Any of you former Navy Seals out there. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

Are you a Fed-ex? [Laughs.] [Ross laughs.] Um… oh! Ross!

ross

Okay?

carrie

What the fuck?

ross

What?

carrie

Oh, well I guess this—okay. I [though laughter] felt my face flush as I read my own notes and I kinda had a woozy— [though laughter] I’m okay.

ross

What is happening?

carrie

So she said—this was before the coronavirus had made big news, at least here in the States. But it was big news internationally.

ross

Yeah. But early February.

carrie

Yeah. She said extraterrestrials can eradicate coronavirus in a snap. They live in Antarctica, but we refuse to let them save us.

ross

Whoa. So you were writing the word coronavirus before it was really even in your head!

carrie

Yeah!

ross

As a thing.

carrie

Well, I mean I was following the international news? It just wasn’t—yeah. It wasn’t a present fear for me. Y’know. So this didn’t sing as loud in my head.

ross

Okay! Wow! Linda!

carrie

Wow. We gotta find those E.T.’s!

ross

Yeah! Why aren’t they coming out to help us!

carrie

Right? Uh, the iPhone may have been rewired so our society could be manipulated, by the way.

ross

Let me look that up on my iPhone. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

These are just some things she was saying toward the end just so we’d know. Just a little extra info. If we all knew what she knows, we wouldn’t be so optimistic.

ross

Aw.

carrie

I know. Kinda sad, right? And she said she gets so much information it’s often dangerous. [Yelling] And she’s still holding my fucking card in her hands!

ross

[Through laughter] Wow!

carrie

Not looking at it.

ross

That’s wild.

carrie

I know. And she said—we are in the last democracy the stands. The US has the biggest population and the largest democracy and… if we could just get this headline out that says we’re not alone in the universe, it would be the first global truth in five million years. So I took out my phone and googled “we are not alone in the universe,” and there were like… a bajillion hits from large outlets? Because—astronomers have been saying that forever.

ross

Yeah.

carrie

Anyway. So she finished up. Uh, and she said—I love you! And she reached out to us with both of her arms and there was a huge swell of applause and a standing ovation! And then she said—she rushed back up to the microphone and she said—oh, by the way, I’m giving a talk about zinc on Monday. [Laughs.] [Ross laughs.] And she never opened my note.

ross

Truly, from A to Z—from Antarctica to zinc!

carrie

Oh, yeah! Yeah.

ross

Hey!

carrie

Ross, you look like you have something you wanna say.

ross

Oh, no! I was just thinking it was amazing how she went from saying—if you knew everything I knew, you wouldn’t be so optimistic. To standing ovation, arms outstretched—I love you allll!

carrie

I love youuuu! Yeah. It—y’know, I always kind of admire someone who can end on a pessimistic note? ‘Cause I can’t do it. I feel like… when I’m giving a talk or… sharing something? I’m not ready to do it until I’m ready to give you some beacon of hope?

ross

Right. Some takeaway; an action item; a sense of… the bright future.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

That will come from the knowledge. Yeah. It’s like, uh, resolving the chord in music.

carrie

Mm-hm! Yeah. So a little more happens that I’ll tell you about, but before I do, I—I was thinking about that image that Linda Moulton Howe showed us where there was sort of like a—a rectangular space in her Google Earth image that she thought was some sort of structure. What would you call that kind of a structure?

ross

Oh, let’s see. Okay. So did it have… straight edges relatively?

carrie

Because of the pixels, but yes.

ross

Were they vaguely at least equidistant?

carrie

Yeah! More or less.

ross

And were the angles also all 90-degree angles?

carrie

Mm-hm.

ross

Well, to me—I’m not an expert on this kind of thing, but I would call that a square.

carrie

Okay.

crosstalk

Ross: That—it—and it’s—it’s filling space— Carrie: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

ross

So it would be like a square space.

carrie

Yes. Okay, yeah. That’s kinda what I wanna call it. And—and it’s funny—like, as we’re saying that, I’m remembering something. I think this episode is actually… sponsored in part by Squarespace!

ross

You mean that place where you can make your website dream a reality?

carrie

[Through laughter] Yes. Yes, I do.

ross

Oh, wow!

carrie

That is what I mean. It is a government secret.

ross

Mm-hm.

carrie

That that is where you can turn your dream into a reality no matter what you do for work!

ross

Well, hey. We’re gonna blow that wide open and share it with our audience. Because they’ll keep it a secret amongst themselves.

carrie

[Whispering conspiratorially] Don’t… tell… anyone.

ross

But you know what? Sometimes a dream is just a great idea that doesn’t yet have a website!

carrie

[Singing to the tune of “A Dream Is A Wish Your Heart Makes” from Cinderella] A dream… is a great ideaaa… that doesn’t—

crosstalk

Ross and Carrie: —have a website yetttt! [Laughs.]

carrie

So make that dream a reality with Squarespace.

ross

You can create a beautiful website to blog or publish content; promote your physical or online business; announce an upcoming event or special project; or tell people about the new information you just uncovered from a secret source that you verified!

carrie

Yeah! You could do that. Squarespace gives you access to beautiful templates created by world-class designers.

ross

Whoa!

carrie

Yes.

ross

Like the same designers who create things in Antarctica?

carrie

Or… create drawings of photos of star maps.

ross

It’s world-class.

carrie

They have powerful e-commerce functionality—

ross

Nice.

carrie

They have a new way to buy domains and choose from over 200 extensions. You want .horse? You got it!

ross

Also, 24/7 award-winning customer support!

carrie

Phewf!

ross

But I think the coolest thing is—you can go to Squarespace and actually start building a site. See if you like the tools. Try it out! You don’t have to pay just yet! You can actually start your project—

carrie

Make sure you like it!

ross

Yeah! And then say—oh, okay! Yeah! I’m ready to pull the trigger on this. And when you do… that’s when you’re gonna use our promo code!

carrie

Yes. So check out Squarespace.com/ohno for your free trial. And then when you’re ready to actually launch, that’s when you’ll use the offer code “oh no” and save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain!

ross

‘Cause then they’ll say—ah! We know who your source was!

carrie

Mm-hm.

ross

It was Carrie Poppy—

carrie

And Ross Blocher!

ross

And that establishes the link. The chain. So you help support us. You also get an awesome website that you built, uh, that looks amazing.

carrie

And you can… convince someone you’re a government agent!

ross

And then you’ll be speaking at the Conscious Life Expo and we’ll be—

carrie

In like, two years. [Laughs.]

ross

And we’ll be talking about you on this podcast!

carrie

That’s right! Go ahead and do it.

carrie

So. The next day was Sunday, February 9th. And Linda Moulton Howe—as far as I know—has still not opened my goddamn note. I—I hovered in that room, too. But there was only so long I could do that without it being weird.

ross

I would love it if she just carried it around with her to the restaurant— [Carrie laughs.] Home and just all day long—

carrie

Keeps gesturing with it. [Laughs.] [Ross laughs.]

ross

She starts, uh, I don’t know. Spackling a wall with it.

carrie

I mean, at that point I’d be like—good on you. Now you’re pulling one over on me. [Ross laughs.] [Laughs.] Good for you, LMH!

ross

Yeah! Now it’s a bit and… it’s turned around. Now it’s become funny.

carrie

Oh, I just realized—we’ve probably mentioned this before, but LMH and LRH—very close!

crosstalk

Ross: Yeah? Yeah! Carrie: Yeah! Huh. Anyway.

carrie

Okay. So the next day, there was a panel called “UFO Panel: ET Contact and Consciousness.” And guess who was on it?

ross

Linda Moulton Howe!

carrie

[Singing] Linda Moulton Howe! [Regular voice] Now of course, I was really just there to hear Linda and partly to see if I had had any effect on her thinking in these last 24 hours via a note. But just to give a little bit of due—what are you [though laughter] doing right now?

ross

I’m working on my Linda Moulton Howe dance. It’s—y’know, it’s like that YMCA—

carrie

[Through laughter] Oh, okay!

ross

—but—so we got—

crosstalk

Carrie: You’re spelling out L-M-H— Ross: L—M—

ross

That’s—that’s the best I can do for an “H.”

carrie

Exclamation point! [Ross laughs.] It’s a—there ya go! [Laughs.] [Ross laughs.] You guys can’t see it, but I can! But just to give the other panelists a little bit of their due, here’s who else was on it. Uh, Serena Wright Taylor was the moderator. She is an ET experiencer.

ross

Okay.

carrie

Mary Rodwell, whos’ a counselor, hypnotherapist, speaker on multidimensional and hybrid beings—woo! Paola Harris, a photojournalist and investigative reporter on ET phenomena; Daniel Shein, a Harvard-trained constitutional and public-interest lawyer.

ross

Hm.

carrie

Yes. I have not double-checked any of this, by the way. Barry Littleton, who has physically been on an extraterrestrial craft.

ross

Whoa!

carrie

Mm-hm! Barbara Lamb, a hypnotherapist, regression therapist, ET researcher, and a person who has done over 2,000 regressions for ET experiences.

ross

Oh, wow. Okay. This all sounds interesting.

carrie

And Steve Mera, UK’s most-respected researcher in the realms of UFOlogy. He’s also the head tutor for the British Investigators Training Course—“On Anomalous Phenomena and UFOs.”

ross

I’m trying to think from the outset which one of those people is probably [though laughter] causing the most harm? And—

carrie

Oh, I have a choice.

crosstalk

Carrie: Just based on description. Ross: Yeah. I would—

ross

I would say—yeah. Based on the description it’s the person who’s conducted all the hypnotherapy sessions.

carrie

Agree. Barbara Lamb. Uh, but—who knows! Okay. So… I wish I could tell you guys every question and every answer. It was so much fun to go to this thing. But I showed up so you don’t have to so some of this will just live in my heart. [Ross laughs.] But I do wanna tell you, uh, what Linda said and a few of my favorite, uh, notable quotables. So the first question was a great one! Was—what are the ETs main message for us? Great. Okay. So--

ross

And why can’t they just spell it out in the sky on their own? ‘Cause we couldn’t stop them!

carrie

Yeah! Good point!

ross

Okay. But yes. What are they trying to tell us?

carrie

There are good panels and there are bad panels, Ross.

ross

Awww.

carrie

And there are good moderators and not-as-strong moderators.

ross

Mm-hm. Mm-hm.

carrie

And sometimes, a person thinks… oh. It’s my turn to speak. [Ross laughs.] Now, I will just say whatever comes to my mind? Lose track of the question that’s been asked, and just know that I am sort of famous. And that’s gonna be my moment. I’m gonna soak in this moment.

ross

Is that Linda?

carrie

I would say that was most of this panel.

ross

[Through laughter] Okay.

carrie

So she says—what are the ET’s main message for us? And the first note I am able to get down with my little hand… is Paola’s answer that there are 57 known species of extraterrestrials. They watch the ecology of our planet. They walk around in the water. They— [Laughs.] [Ross laughs.] [Through laughter] Just like—what—that’s such a simple question, Paola! [Laughs.]

ross

Interesting, but not a message!

carrie

[Through laughter] Yeah! Uh, and then I’m just gonna show you my notes. When Barbara begins talking—half of my page is just me trying to find the answer! To “what are ET’s main message for us” from Barbara! But I just—all her info comes from regression work. And in regressions, sometimes the beings come through and she’s done 4,000 regressions and there are many different types of beings. There’s probably about 60. And they, uh, they have one agenda. But the others, they show great caring about the Earth and the people they meet! And, well, she started in 1991 and everyone was terrified of them then but now they have such caring encounters and often they’ll physically heal the experiencer or maybe they have cancer and that gets better! Maybe they have a broken bone and that gets healed! But anyway—humans have ET genetics. And the hybrids are here. And they’re gonna help humanity evolve. So finally…

ross

[Through laughter] But what is the message?!

carrie

[Through laughter] Yes! Finally the moderator actually interrupts her. So thank you, Serena. And is like—y’know, I just wanna—just wanna finish up. Just a couple—couple more seconds there. Uh— [Ross laughs.] So finally Barbara sums up—they want us to join the Galactic Federation.

ross

Alright.

carrie

Mm-kay. Fine. At least that’s a goal. Thank you, Barbara.

ross

I haven’t gotten my recruitment card yet.

carrie

[Laughs.] Yeah. Right? So Steve had the most plain, direct answer. He said, well it depends on which ones you ask, but, um, I’ve been involved in a lot of very secret research and a lot of them talk about unity equilibrium and they want us to save the Earth. Alright.

crosstalk

Ross: Boring, but… thank you for answering the question, Steve. Carrie: Boring, but… yeah! Exactly.

ross

Just reminds me of one of those kind of, um… like, beauty pageant contests. The stereotypical answer is, y’know—

carrie

“Many don’t have access to maps? And—"

ross

I want— [Laughs.] [Carrie laughs.] Whoa, I was thinking of the stereotypical, uh, y’know, “I want world peace.” Right?

carrie

Oh, yes.

ross

That’s very good! Thank you for saying that. Y’know? Oh, the aliens want us all to live in harmony and be happy. That’s great! How do we do that?

carrie

Little Jimmy, who is your favorite president?

carrie

Abraham Lincoln!

ross

[Through laughter] Right.

carrie

Very good! Why? Good. He freed the slaves. Okay.

ross

It’s Sunday School—who made the Earth? Jesus!

carrie

Jesus!

ross

Okay. And who loves you very much?

crosstalk

Ross and Carrie: Jesus! [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

Yeah. It was that. So then Daniel Shein—oh my god. That guy. Such a confusing speaker. So many diversions per sentence. No idea what he thinks the aliens’ main message is. [Ross laughs.] But— [Laughs.] But. He did ramble for several minutes about Jesuits. [Laughs.]

ross

Oh, yeah! You gotta watch out for the Jesuits—

crosstalk

Ross: —‘cause they’re smart! Carrie: No. I think he’s—

carrie

He’s pro-Jesuit. I think he teaches at a Jesuit school?

ross

Oh, never mind! I thought—‘cause I’ve heard so many conspiracy theories. Like, our man Dylan Lewis Monroe—he often talks about—oh, I learned about the Jesuits! Oh, man, they’re behind so many things! Okay. Be he was pro-Jesuit!

carrie

Interesting. Yeah. I feel like Jesuit is also just one of those words? That like sounds, uh, a little secretive or whatever to some people? It just like has—

ross

Little Opus Dei maybe kind of—the inside track of the Catholic Church.

carrie

Right. Like, you kind of feel its Latin roots in the word or whatever.

ross

Mm-hm.

carrie

Anyway. Next, we’ve got Linda. And… she just dives right into her personal autobiography.

ross

And how!

carrie

Why answer the question when you can tell us that 41 years ago you started looking into animal mutations and there were no tracks around those animals and some people said they’d been taken up and [inaudible] the light. And the police department was telling her privately that it was ETs and now she’s sitting in front of us and she can’t believe where her life has gone! And when she heard the moderator ask this question, she just saw a kaleidoscope of answers. Literally! So…

ross

‘K. We’re getting somewhere.

carrie

Uh, so she starts rambling a little bit and then she says—there is an eight-foot-tall praying mantis— [Ross laughs.] —who is in charge of all the other ETs. [Ross laughs.] [Through laughter] And I’m like—Linda!!! We have been burying the lede! All weekend! [Laughs.]

ross

[Through laughter] This is so perfect for the “you never know what’ll come out of her face.” [Laughs.] [Carrie laughs.] [Through laughter] This time it was an eight-foot praying mantis that is in charge of all the other aliens! [Laughs.]

carrie

[Through laughter] That is so much more interesting than anything you’ve ever said! [Laughs.]

ross

I mean, why have a talk about zinc [though laughter] when you know about this alien?! [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

[Through laughter] I know! And I start picturing this wonderful, eight-foot-tall praying mantis— [Ross laughs.] —and its little tiny arms. [Laughs.] Bossing everybody around. [Ross laughs.] Eating its, uh… does—is the praying mantis one of those—

crosstalk

Carrie: —that like, eats its—yeah! Fascinating! Ross: The woman eats the head of the man after they copulate. Yeah. Yeah?

carrie

I need to know more! And you saw a kaleidoscope of answers? This one didn’t just jump to the top of your list? [Laughs.] [Ross laughs.] Anyway. She says, uh, but the most important thing that the praying mantis wants us to know is that we need to translate into the light. It’s vital that the soul stay with the body for a specific amount of time. If you’re killed too early, the praying mantis will save you and put your soul in a new cloned body in Australia.

ross

What? What?! [Carrie laughs.] The praying mantis will clone your body— [Carrie laughs.] —and put it in Australia?!

carrie

[Through laughter] Yeah!

crosstalk

Ross: [Through laughter] And save your soul? Carrie: Linda!

carrie

Why are you doing talks about [though laughter] Antarctica?!

ross

And how did we get a whole new religion just within the span of your answer? [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

And then she said— [Ross laughs.] —and I guess my final sentence is—

crosstalk

Carrie: Which, first of all— Ross: Oh, yeah. What is it?

carrie

What a weird way to talk. But— [Ross laughs.] [Through laughter] Second of all, as soon as I heard it I was like—I’m gonna count the sentences after this.

ross

Yes.

carrie

And then I wrote, “1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7… looooong sentences.”

ross

Wow. Okay.

carrie

Mm.

ross

Linda, Linda, Linda.

carrie

Then Barry was next and he said—ugh. I have to follow that up? [Ross laughs.]

ross

Indeed.

carrie

Touché, Barry.

ross

There’s a lot of entertainment value there. The—at least—at least she did have—there was an answer in there embedded somewhere. About— [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

An amazing one.

ross

Yeah.

carrie

Yeah. It’s sort of like when someone writes a memoir and they don’t know which elements of their own life are interesting?

ross

Mm! Mm-hm.

carrie

And, y’know, so it’s like, oh, two chapters about your mom’s piano. Amazing. And then chapter three’ll be like—y’know—I was also told that I was a child prodigy in math and I was sent to Quebec for a summer. But anyway. What—what—it just—what—that—what?

crosstalk

Ross: That’s actually interesting! Carrie: [Makes sounds indicating being lost for words.]

carrie

You brushed right over that! I feel like that about this, uh—

crosstalk

Ross: Yeah. And just— Carrie: —praying mantis.

ross

—with all of this talk about aliens and the Galactic Council and all the contact they’re making that all they can come away with are vague platitudes that any one of us could generate.

carrie

This praying mantis in charge of everybody—he’s like, you gotta translate into the light. [Pause.] What?! That doesn’t even mean anything to me!

crosstalk

Ross: Is he a literal praying mantis or does he just look like one? Carrie: I think so!

carrie

I think…

ross

Did he come from Earth and he’s—

carrie

“Eight-foot-tall praying mantis is in charge” is what I wrote down.

ross

How does his exoskeleton— [Carrie laughs.] —manage his internal organs ‘cause they’re not made to even be able to breath at that size! I have so many questions! [Carrie laughs.] Okay!

carrie

Well maybe she’ll be on the show to answer them sometime.

ross

Please, Linda.

crosstalk

Ross: Please come on the show. Carrie: Oh, please.

carrie

Linda. We love you so much. So Barry then gave his—his answer. Uh, well first, y’know, he’s like—I can’t believe I have to follow that up. I’m sitting between the two people I’ve admired the longest—

ross

Awww.

carrie

—Which was, uh, Linda and Mary Rodwell. But okay. He said—the most important thing they want us to know is that the age of the Earth isn’t known. We—we need to do like a better job figuring out the age of the Earth. Okay.

ross

Oh, okay. Gotta go back to the drawing board on the age of the Earth. Not 4.55 billion years old.

carrie

Right.

ross

Okay.

carrie

Uh, he didn’t mention, like, 6,000 or anything that would set off a lightbulb in my head, but.

ross

Probably going the opposite direction. Way older!

carrie

Yeah. That’d be my guess. Like L. Ron Hubbard did.

ross

Also interesting that… all these people are talking to the aliens and the aliens are giving them inconsistent messages that are the most important messages.

carrie

Oh, right.

ross

Three people have answered the question and they’ve answered it in different ways.

carrie

Ah, true. Though I guess, like, if someone asked you—what’s Carrie’s most important message? It could differ from—

ross

Ella is a good girl. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

—from Drew’s—oh, never mind. [Laughs.] [Ross laughs.] You would both say the same thing. He did tell us that the ships that he’s been on are made of fungus.

ross

Well, that is sustainable.

carrie

Yeah! Right. Yeah. Sustainable in the, um… environmental sense. Not sustainable in the ship sense. [Ross laughs.]

ross

No. But hey—I’m glad they’re using fungus instead of, say, plastic.

carrie

Yeah. Oh, definitely. Boy, then Mary talked and ah I don’t even know what she was trying to get across? But something about… kids getting a lot of autism and ADHD? The—the aliens want us to figure that situation out. ‘Cause—oh! The mantis—so she knew about the mantis, too!

ross

Oh, wow!

carrie

The mantis is a master geneticist. [Ross gasps.] And something is—

ross

He’s so talented!

carrie

[Through laughter] Something is happening right now and children are at the forefront.

ross

I wanna know more about this mantis!

carrie

Oh, and kids with ADHD and autism are wired better. It’s not something to be corrected.

ross

Okay.

carrie

Hm. ‘K.

ross

Well that’s better than, say, that vaccine fear of—oh, my child dying is, uh, is a happier thought than them getting autism!

carrie

Right. Right.

crosstalk

Ross: It’s just so awful. Carrie: Than being neurodivergent. Yeah.

carrie

Okay. So now we get audience questions. Excellent. So we had been able to write our questions on little cards and then someone came around and collected them. I did fill one out. So one question was—when is everyone going to get to meet these aliens? Which I thought was great! I felt like—oh, gosh! I rarely hear that answered. Only Mary really responded. She said that the shift is coming. I’m not sure that she actually expressly said this? But I got the impression she was saying, like, in our generation. Like, we’re going to see the aliens.

ross

I feel like—now, there needs to be a rule. New rule! Every time— [Carrie laughs.] —somebody says “I predict [x] vaguely within our lifetimes,” you have to also say—“but if this does not happen by the year [blank]”—in which they should still be alive—“I will admit I was wrong.”

carrie

Right. Totally.

crosstalk

Ross: So then you could just— Carrie: Or you can put it on my headstone if I am wrong about this.

ross

Yeah!

carrie

Yeah.

ross

Yeah! And then we could just have, uh, a list, y’know, and keep a nice little Wikipedia entry and—okay! How’s the date doing? Oh, it’s now 2022! Okay. You’re wrong! You’re wrong. Say it. Say you’re wrong. Okay. Good. You admit it. You’re wrong. Okay. [Laughs.] Next? You’re wrong!

carrie

Right. Yeah. It’s unfalsifiable otherwise.

ross

Exactly.

carrie

Or close to unfalsifiable. Someone asked Paola what happened at Mount Shasta? Which must be part of her personal origin story? But I hadn’t heard it. And she—she said, um—it’s—it’s very, very personal. So, um, I’m going to be brief, but, um, I went to Peru and I talked to people and a Guatemalan man said a spaceman wanted to meet me and I went to Mount Shasta and I meditated and I fasted for three days and, um—

ross

Wait. Is Mount Shasta—that’s in California.

carrie

Mm-hm. It’s in Redding.

ross

Okay. So… she was in South America—alright. Well.

carrie

Oh, it’s a good question. Yeah. I don’t know.

ross

Alright.

carrie

But so she meditated and fasted for three days. She had this very spiritual and loving contact. She said she hated it, which—confusing. Spiritual and loving but she hated it. She said it was really cold and then she said she hates camping. [Laughs.] We gotta teach you all to tell stories.

ross

Hoo! Hoo, yeah.

carrie

So next question was—should there be a diplomacy initiative for extraterrestrials?

ross

Okay.

carrie

Yeah, okay. And Daniel was like—no. You should never hand things over to the government. I studied this at Harvard. Citizens and major religious groups should do this. The government never should. Ah, interesting answer at least.

ross

As long as someone’s getting the work done.

carrie

Mm-hm. [Laughs.] Okay. Next question was to Linda Moulton Howe—they said, you have shirts that say “Down with entropy; up with light!” What does that mean? [Ross laughs.] And she said—-well, we always want angels, life, love, and freedom to win. And our universe has entropy. And… I’ve just always had this thought in my head—down with entropy; up with light. And it took me ten years to get that shirt made. So let’s make a planet where we align with light! And everyone went—yayyyy!

ross

That sounds awfully optimistic to me.

carrie

For entropy to be over? [Laughs.]

ross

Well, just like, her attitude in general when she said earlier—if you knew everything I did.

carrie

Oh, yeah! Good point.

ross

Yeah.

carrie

Yeah. Alright, this is a good one. Someone said, when a UFO crashes here, do aliens come to rescue them?

ross

Good question!

carrie

Yeah!

ross

Do they have AAA-lien [says it as “Triple-alien”]? [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

How did you do that that fast?

ross

It’s how my brain works!

carrie

You should feel proud of yourself today.

ross

Thank you.

carrie

If you accomplish nothing else— [Ross laughs.] —you did that!

ross

Thank you! [Laughs.]

carrie

You’re welcome.

ross

That’s right. I’ll hold onto that. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

So… Paola actually said—yes! A government army source said he saw a crash retrieval where their own people came to rescue them!

ross

Okay!

carrie

Yeah!

ross

Alright.

carrie

There ya go! Then Linda had to contribute. [Laughs.] She said—there’s a place in San Diego called “POA” and Nordics isolated there in a Faraday cage underground. And on April 25th, 1964, there was a meeting between the US Military and the Sumerian aliens and the two greys and they wanted their bodies back. And they traded technology.

ross

I’m sure it’s all true.

carrie

[Through laughter] Mm-hm. ‘K. I’ll tell you… the next two questions and you tell me which one you wanna hear the answer to.

ross

Mm-kay. [Laughs.]

carrie

One was—do ETs have religious beliefs?

ross

Oohh!

carrie

And the other was—there’s a CIA agent here in the audience and he asked who will tell the truth about canis familiaris and Element 12. [Ross laughs.]

ross

Well—ah. That’s tricky, because I’m interested in the first question— [Carrie laughs.] —but obviously the second was submitted by one Carrie Poppy. [Laughs.]

carrie

Oh, you just assume. Oh my god. What if it hadn’t been?! That would’ve blown my fucking mind!

ross

Oh man! Like—this is how things start!!!

carrie

Yeah. Well, yeah, or I’d think like—somehow I downloaded it!

ross

Yeah!

carrie

Yeah!

ross

Yeah. But no. It was from you.

carrie

It was from me. So yeah, I wrote down, like, I am ex-CIA. And so as Selena is reading this out loud, she’s like—ohhh! There’s a CIA agent here in the audience. And the whole room goes—ohhhhh!

ross

Starts looking around?

carrie

Yeah.

ross

Is it you?

carrie

Everyone’s looking. Everyone’s looking. She immediately starts calling the agent “he.” And— [Laughs.]

ross

I—I hope you didn’t look around.

carrie

[Singing to the tune of “The Schuyler Sisters” from Hamilton] “Look around, look around…” I think I did look around. Why?

ross

Oh, okay. To see who the CIA agent—well, obviously, it’s you!

carrie

Right. But that’s why I had to play along! So they wouldn’t think it was me!

ross

Right. It goes either way. Right. Yeah. ‘Cause if you don’t look around then people would be like—look at her!

carrie

That’s her!

ross

She’s not looking around!

carrie

Although Selena said “he.”

ross

I was gonna say—the dog thing sounded a little farfetched until I heard about the eight-foot praying mantis. [Laughs.] [Carrie laughs.] Everything’s out the window!

carrie

So… she says—there’s a CIA agent here. Everyone goes, oooh! And she says—well, a former—former CIA. Former CIA. And… he asked—who’s gonna tell the truth about—and I can’t quite make this out—canis familiari—and Linda goes, “dogs.” And uh, and she said—okay. Dogs and Element 12. And Linda said, I actually received a note about this yesterday.

ross

Oh, wow. And now this kinda serves as like a second source! I’m guessing the way her mind works.

carrie

Oh! Interesting.

ross

She’s probably like—oh, now I’ve heard—I’ve heard this again. And I don’t have the ability to—

carrie

Disprove it.

ross

And I don’t have the ability to realize that this came from the exact same person?

carrie

Uh-huh.

ross

And so… now I have extra confirmation! So okay! Okay!

carrie

Perhaps. Perhaps.

ross

What happens?

carrie

So she said—I heard about this yesterday. I hadn’t heard it before. I do want to know more. So—

ross

Mm-hm!

carrie

Please come talk to me. And um, so then Steve said—I also heard about that yesterday.

ross

What?!

carrie

And then… the panel starts going, oh, interesting! Okay. You know what? I think I also heard something about that!

ross

[Through laughter] Oh no! [Carrie laughs.] What have you done? What have you done, Carrie?!

carrie

Well, also—I even got the impression, like… maybe Steve really did hear something about it? But I think a lot of what was happening in that moment is just your brain being like… this feels familiar. You know what? I think I heard that, too! More than that they had actually heard it? Do you know what I’m saying?

ross

Mm-kay.

carrie

Yeah. It felt more like that. But—it was being created in front of my eyes.

ross

Right!

carrie

For sure.

ross

But now they’re all just subtly lending… energy to that idea!

carrie

Yup! And so… then… Linda—into the microphone—says: so the idea is that apparently dogs are a super-species that was planted here. By advanced beings! The whole room goes—ohhhh! And this sweet—

ross

In that moment, you’ve already— [Carrie laughs.] —done the deed. Your letter has turned into a Conscious Life Expo talking point.

carrie

[Through laughter] Yep! And the girl behind—this sweet, sweet girl in her twenties behind me—goes, [shrieking] Yes!!! [Laughs.]

ross

[Through laughter] Oh no!

carrie

She’s so happy. She’s like, finally, the dogs are vindicated! And I was like—yes! You know what? If I’ve done nothing else— [Ross laughs.] —I’ve made her so happy! Um, but also your lies get away from you and this is probably not gonna be good over time. Um… anyway. Yeah. ETs do have religious beliefs. Um—

ross

Oh, phew! Okay. [Carrie laughs.] I was gonna ask you about that. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

Okay. So. I can’t—I didn’t feel confident enough in my… acting skills or… my ability to decide whether to lie in the moment.

crosstalk

Ross: Mm. To make a face-to-face interaction. Carrie: To go up to her.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

But… it seems like there’s a very open window for you to contact later and say—sorry, I couldn’t give away my identity. But.

carrie

Exactly. And so I did.

ross

Okay. [Laughs.]

carrie

So. She had mentioned ProtonMail.

ross

Yes!

carrie

So I went and got a ProtonMail account. I called it, uh… feel free to email me! It was DeceptionIsland@ProtonMail.com. Deception Island is an island in Antarctica. Looked it up. [Laughs.]

ross

Hey, hey! Nice!

carrie

Thank you!

ross

Nice touch!

carrie

I’m trying so hard to give her every possible fucking hint. I put “deception” in the name of my thing.

ross

Sure.

carrie

I call myself “Poppy Hornet”? As my name? As my first and last name.

ross

Mm-kay.

carrie

I make a… oh, I tell her I’m from the ONRAC division of the CIA.

ross

Mm-hm.

carrie

I send her a DD-214 that I have edited in, like… y’know, Paint or something. It looks terrible. There are lines, like, going through it like an orange just, uh, like, editing line? Going through it—I’m like, Linda! This is fake! Say anything! And—

ross

Call me on it! [Carrie laughs.] Just call somebody on something!

carrie

Please! For God’s sake! And I keep talking about ONRAC. Oh yeah. So anyway. Uh, so I email her. And I say… hi, I’m the one who gave you the note. My daughter wrote it for me. I’m not very good with the computer. ‘Cause I had also posited that I was fairly old.

ross

Mm.

carrie

But, uh, she encouraged me to get in contact with you here. If there’s anything I can tell you I’d love to. And she said—your DD-214 form is incomplete!

ross

Mm!

carrie

Do you have a full one? Uh, can your daughter scan it? And I thought—Linda! Hey! A little tiny dose of skepticism!

ross

Yeah? Good!

carrie

This is wonderful!

ross

Though we’ve seen her do that before. It seems like it’s very easy to knock over that tiny wall of skepticism.

carrie

So an hour later—

ross

Okay.

carrie

She writes back and she says, never mind. I got it open.

ross

Oh no!

carrie

I’m very curious…

ross

[Through laughter] Oh alright. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

Please tell me—please tell me everything you’ve been through. I’m like—oh, and she specifically said “a long and detailed”—“please send me a long and detailed email about everything you’ve been through.” I’m like, well, fuck. Okay.

ross

She’s so—she’s so—

carrie

Okay.

ross

—credulous! She could be credo-more.

carrie

Yeah. [Laughs.] True. [Laughs.] So I sit down and like—I’m fighting with myself, right? I’m like, do I do this? She’s asking me to write, like, a long—God, what have I done?!

ross

This is a conflict! Yeah!

carrie

This is awful! Yeah! And I—and I like her so much so I just—I’m trying to make it impossible that this is real! Y’know? I—I talk about ONRAC so many times and hope that she’ll google the fucking acronym! And see “Carrie Poppy” and be like—oooh, Poppy Hornet? ONRAC?

ross

See, this is how it started with Spartan 2!

carrie

Come on! [Laughs.]

ross

Spartan 2 did the same thing—you know what? I’m gonna have her talk to my buddy. My frat buddy. [Laughs.]

carrie

It’s gonna be so obvious.

ross

She’s gonna realize this is silly and not wanna talk to us.

carrie

Ohhh, god. But I write her this long-ass email.

ross

Carrie’s covering her eyes.

carrie

Hands on my face. I wrote her this long email with this story about being chosen by the CIA. First I worked for the Navy and then they spotted me and I was, uh, one of the only women who could perform a particular task and then I had to go to Romania and I was working at this Navy base in Romania and then these dogs kept showing up and I’m a real animal lover so I was like—oh, my god! These dogs! So why is there such a big dog population in this town in Romania? And then people started saying, oh—well, some people would say, oh, yeah, they call it Dog City. And then other people acted like they didn’t know what I was talking about! And I was like—something’s up! And then this one dog showed up one morning and I got really attached to the dog! And then I was like, oh, y’know—

ross

I like how this was so tough for you but then the words just— [Carrie laughs.] Flow out from Carrie’s hands!

carrie

I spun a yarn. Uh— [Ross laughs.] So I—

ross

Well you can’t tell details if you’re lying, so clearly—

crosstalk

Ross: This is true! Carrie: Exactly.

carrie

It’s long and detailed. So. I adopt this dog and then I’m trying to convince my coworkers, like, we gotta do something about this dog population here and finally they’re like—fuck. We gotta tell her the truth ‘cause she’s going to disrupt this delicate balance between us and the dogs.

ross

Right.

carrie

So they pull me aside into a side room. And very loudly, play Ann Murray’s “Danny’s Song” to obscure any recordings. [Singing] And even though we ain’t got money—I’m so in love!

ross

[Through laughter] Okay!

carrie

They play that on loop. [Ross laughs.] Super loud to obscure any recordings. And they tell me that there is a portal to Antarctica in our coat closet. And that these dogs have been running society and they spill the tea, Ross. They spill the tea. And from then on my life was [whispering importantly] never the same.

ross

Wait, what does “spill the tea” mean? Like, they’re observing all of us and sharing our information?

carrie

Oh, no. They told—they told me all the truth. They—yeah.

ross

Oh. Gotcha.

carrie

Y’know. And then I kinda—I tried to make it just like—this is the origin story, dot, dot, dot? ‘Cause I don’t have time to tell her about my 21 years in the CIA! But, y’know. I’m like—oh, I also said, I can send you clippings of dog hair and you will not be able to identify what breed it came from.

ross

Oh, you’re—

carrie

Which is true.

ross

You’re a little too good at this! [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

But it’s true. Like, when I did DNA test on Ella they were like—I don’t know. Mutt? [Ross laughs.] So she is not any particular—she is not a breed known on this planet, Ross.

ross

True statement.

carrie

Fuck. Anyway. She did write back. She said, like, very interesting. Do you know anything about some other project? And I had to google the shit out of that. And then I was like, oh, I think that’s this. It’s some other UFO lore thing.

ross

Now you’ve verified! She checked you out! [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

Yeah. And then she stopped responding!

ross

Oh!

carrie

Yeah!

ross

Okay!

carrie

So I did ask her—I followed up once and said, hey, I’m just curious—has anyone else from ONRAC contacted you? I’m curious if anyone else has broken their silence. And she said—no one else from ONRAC has contacted me. And then I said, okay. Do you need anything else from me? No response. And then finally yesterday I wrote back and I said—well. I guess no one cares.

ross

Ohhh! Okay!

carrie

So I’m gonna send her this episode when it’s out.

ross

And do you think that maybe she did look something up and—and realized, oh, this is—this is not real. I’m not gonna follow up with it anymore?

carrie

Um—

ross

Did she just—

carrie

That seems possible.

ross

She just doesn’t deliver a “Dear John” or call someone directly on it but discards it if—

carrie

I mean, that was my intuition about it? Was like, okay. She’s finally caught up. It should not have taken this long or this many hints? But good!

ross

Okay.

carrie

But… also, could she just not be checking her email? Yeah.

ross

Oh. Maybe.

carrie

Maybe.

ross

What a ride!

carrie

Yeah. I feel pretty guilty about the whole thing. I think the lesson here is—lies get away from you. Just don’t even [though laughter] start it.

ross

That was just a—about a month and a half of interaction, then.

carrie

Yeah. Yeah. February ‘til last night. We’re recording this on April… 4th. Yeah.

ross

Okay!

carrie

Do you think she’ll come to my wedding?

ross

I hope so!

carrie

Hm.

ross

If she can dramatically read with me.

carrie

Ahhh! There we go! Ross is a reader. And he’s sort of added [though laughter] the title “dramatic” to it. [Laughs.]

ross

I thought it said “dramatic reader” in the original description!

carrie

Uh, I think it says… “esteemed reader.”

ross

Oh, “esteemed!” Alright.

carrie

But I like the thought of you like getting up with a whole play or something. [Laughs.]

ross

Yeah. It’s gonna be dramatic.

carrie

Cyrano de Bergerac. [Laughs.] [Ross laughs.] It’s been 90 minutes! He’s still doing it! [Laughs.] [Ross laughs.]

ross

How did dogs get worked into this?! [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

And that’s my story!

ross

Amazing. Well.

carrie

My throat hurts.

ross

If you do listen to this, Linda—we like you!

crosstalk

Ross: Come on this show! Carrie: I like you so much!

carrie

And I’m sorry and it’s just… this was the only test I could think to run. I don’t feel good about it. [Ross laughs, then sighs.] Come on the show?

ross

And also, that whole program—not real. That didn’t happen.

carrie

That didn’t happen. And there was probably also not a praying mantis running… all the ET societies besides ours?

ross

And I am the chief other member of the ONRAC division.

carrie

Oh, shit. It starts.

ross

So I can—I can—

carrie

It starts again.

ross

What is the opposite of verify? I can dispel these rumors.

carrie

That’s… [whispering conspiratorially] what he wants you to think. [Ross laughs.]

ross

Well, thank you for sharing that, Carrie!

carrie

You’re welcome. It was a lot of very tortured work.

ross

I wanted to know what came of that letter. Carrie was so excited [though laughter] when she had sent this to her. And I thought, oh, this is just silly. [Carrie laughs.] She’s going to discard this out of hand. But—

carrie

Nope!

ross

Little should I have doubted that she would keep it in her hand for a very long time.

carrie

[Through laughter] Mm-hm. Literally and metaphorically!

ross

Well let that be a lesson to all of you— [Carrie laughs.] —on misleading, uh, credulous reporters. [Laughs.]

carrie

[Through laughter] Mm-hm.

ross

And I guess that’s it for our show!

carrie

Our theme music is by Brian Keith Dalton.

ross

Our administrative manager is Ian Kremer.

carrie

This episode was edited by Ross Blocher!

ross

You can support us by telling your friends, uh, by going to MaximumFun.org? You can /donate you can /join there.

carrie

Mm-hm!

ross

If you want to be part of the Maximum Fun family. Get some bonus content. But don’t worry—MaxFun Drive’s still gonna happen!

carrie

It is. We don’t know the date yet? But we do know it cometh.

ross

But it—yeah. It’s not like one of those things where like, oh, Jesus is coming back and none of you standing here will pass away before that happens. Like, it’ll—

carrie

It’s not like the aliens are going to come see everybody before this generation has passed.

ross

Yeah. This is one of those predictions like—we will stand by. If it doesn’t happen by this time next year, we will be legitimately surprised and say we were wrong.

carrie

Yes. Correct.

ross

There we go! I—

carrie

If there is no MaxFunDrive before I die, you can put on my tombstone— [Ross laughs.] Carrie Poppy: No MaxFunDrive. ??? [Ross laughs.]

ross

You can also, y’know, tell your friends; share us on social media; you can visit us on social media! We have a Facebook.

carrie

Mm-hm. We have a Twitter!

ross

Facebook is the ONRAC Division—O-N-R-A-C. [Carrie laughs.] Twitter is OhNoPodcast.

carrie

Mm-hm!

ross

And remember—

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Music: Eerie science-fiction-style music begins. Speaker 1: [Distorted voice, as though deliberately disguised to protect his identity] As far as the aliens go? There’s more than one race. They have been in contact with homo sapiens since time began. They seeded us. Speaker 2: There is a huge secret hidden deep underneath the ice in Antarctica. Military whistleblowers tell me that there are very large alien structures under two miles of Antarctic ice. Speaker 1: It needs to be open. The truth needs to be out. [Music vibrates; then fades into the ONRAC theme song.]

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“Oh No, Ross and Carrie! Theme Song” by Brian Keith Dalton. A jaunty, upbeat instrumental.

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Music: Fun, upbeat music. Dave Hill: Hi! I'm Dave Hill. From before. And I'm very excited to bring Dave Hill's Podcasting Incident back to Maximum Fun, where it belongs! You can get brand new episodes every Friday on MaximumFun.org. Or, you know, wherever. And what my partner Chris Gersbeck and I might lack in specific subject matter on our podcast, we make up for in special effects! Chris, add something cool. Right here! [Gunshot or whip snap.] Also, we have explosions! [Explosion.] Animal noises. [A goat bleating.] And sometimes, even this! [Two comedic timpani "boings," a springier "sproing" sound, and what sounds like a human scream.] Dave Hill's Podcasting Incident! Every Friday on Maximum Fun. Chris, do another explosion right here. [Another explosion, right here.]

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MaximumFun.org.

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Comedy and culture.

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Artist owned—

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—Audience supported.

About the show

Welcome to Oh No, Ross and Carrie!, the show where we don’t just report on fringe science, spirituality, and claims of the paranormal, but take part ourselves. Follow us as we join religions, undergo alternative treatments, seek out the paranormal, and always find the humor in life’s biggest mysteries. We show up – so you don’t have to. Every week we share a new investigation, interview, or update.

Follow @ohnopodcast on Twitter and join the Facebook group!

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How to listen

Stream or download episodes directly from our website, or listen via your favorite podcatcher!

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