Transcript
music
“Switchblade Comb” by Mobius VanChocStraw. A jaunty, jazzy tune reminiscent of the opening theme of a movie. Music continues at a lower volume as April introduces herself and her guest, and then it fades out.
katie walsh
Hello! And welcome to Switchblade Sisters, the podcast where women get together to slice and dice our favorite action and genre films. Every week, here on the podcast, we invite a new female filmmaker or pair of female filmmakers—a writer, director, actor, producer—and we talk in depth about their favorite genre film. Maybe one that influenced their own work. I’m film critic Katie Walsh, and today we have writing/directing team and my dear friends Bridget Savage Cole and Danielle Krudy.
bridget savage cole
Hi! I’m Bridget!
danielle krudy
Hey, I’m Krudy.
katie
Welcome to the pod! [Bridget makes a sound of excitement.]
krudy
Hi, Katie.
bridget
Happy to be here.
katie
Hellooo.
bridget
Thanks for having us.
katie
Of course! Well, let me tell you a little bit about Bridget and Danielle before we get into it. And the movie that they chose to talk about this week. Bridget is originally from salty Beverley, Massachusetts. And she attended Wesleyan University, where she discovered a passion for choreography and cinematography and began creating her own DIY projects. After moving to New York City, she began creating videos for Nylon Magazine, as well as shooting and directing music videos for bands such as Future Islands and Hearts. In 2011, she was selected to participate in AFI’s Directing Workshop for Women, where she directed the award-winning short film OowieWanna—co-written by Danielle Krudy. Bridget has directed national commercials for brands including Target, Mastercard, and Spotify. And she has also created original, narrative content for FunnyOrDie and Refinery29, where she premiered her short, Swell, starring Gabriel Luna and Britt Lower. Danielle also studied film studies at Wesleyan University and then moved to New York City, where she worked in the indie film world and at a camera rental house. And also as the assistant for Oscar-nominated director of photography Matthew Libatique on films such as Black Swan. Blow the Man Down is Danielle and Bridget’s first feature and they will also make their television directing debut on the upcoming CBS All Access series adaptation of Stephen King’s The Stand. So, let’s get into it! Today, Bridget and Danielle have chosen to discuss the 1973 folk horror classic The Wicker Man! So! [They chuckle.] Whyyy did you choose The Wicker Man?
krudy
We have—well, we have a couple different reasons. I know Bridget’s got more of a personal connection, but we—when we were making Blow the Man Down, she said, “I’ve got to screen this movie for you. You haven’t seen it?!” [They laugh.]
bridget
Yeah, I had this thing where I was like, “Wait—we’re making this, like, Maine—” We were making this movie set in Maine, in the boonies, and I was just like, “I really—” And we have sea shanties in our movie, and so I was like, “I really think we’re gonna—you guys are gonna like this movie.” And everyone was like, “Yeah, yeah, original, blah, blah, blah. Old movie. Nobody cares.” [Krudy chuckles.] And then we were in prep and I just put it on, one night, and I think—Krudy, you watched the whole first half of it standing up. ‘Cause you were basically in this state of, like, “I’m not gonna watch a movie tonight. I’m just, like, gonna go to bed—“
krudy
[Defensively.] For the record! Because we were in production! You know, like, we’re like basically in prep!
bridget
My point is, this movie has this phenomenon of just, like, once you start watching it, you can’t stop. [Katie agrees.] And I feel like the… it ended up being, like, a real bonding moment for us—everyone who was in the house. We watched it with our cinematographer, Todd Banhazl, and Danielle Mandel.
krudy
Our coordinator.
bridget
Our coordinator and mascot. [They laugh.] And—and—
krudy
And let’s just say it, um, climaxed with us, like, doing the dance of the maypole in our living room. [They laugh.] To the soundtrack, which became the soundtrack of our lives, of Blow the Man Down. [Laughs.]
bridget
It’s really true. We played—for the rest of prep on Blow the Man Down, we would play the soundtrack, like, unironically. And, like, dance around the kitchen.
katie
Oh my god, amazing. [Bridget agrees.]
krudy
It was really like a—it was like a spiritual, like, mascot film for us, I think. [Bridget agrees several times.] It’s really not, like, a reference, necessarily. [Katie affirms.] But it kind of—it channeled some sort of bigger—you know, Storytelling with a capital ‘S’ and sort of this, like, timelessness. And it kind of—
bridget
It also was just, like—you’re in the middle of nowhere and we felt like we were in the middle of nowhere making this movie. [They agree.] You’re already in, like, Crazy Town when you’re making a film and you’re all living in a house together in freezing cold Maine. So, [chuckling] it really summed up, sort of, the craziness.
krudy
And we could really relate to, like, the small-town—like, everybody knows you’re—like, everybody in this town in Maine knew. We were the movie kids. We were basically the policemen. Like— [Bridget laughs and agrees several times.] Kind of like walking around and everybody was like, “Oh, you’re the film crew.” You know? So, it was sort of like this—you know, the mystery of the town was definitely channeled by the movie.
crosstalk
Bridget: Yeah, totally. Katie: They’re like, “We’re not gonna let you in!”
krudy
Yeah, it was like, “One day they just might come for you!” [Bridget agrees.]
bridget
Do you need to, like, describe the movie? And the basic gist?
katie
Yes! I am going to do a little plot synopsis. [Bridget agrees.] Uh, spoiler alert. For those of you who haven’t seen The Wicker Man, today’s episode will contain spoilers. That shouldn’t stop you from listening before you watch. Like we always say, it’s not what happens but how it happens that makes a movie worth watching. Still, if you wanna pause this episode and watch it, now’s your chance. It is on Netflix. It’s very easy to watch it.
music
"The Highland Widow's Lament" by Lesley Mackie from The Wicker Man (Original Motion Picture Soundtrack) plays underneath Katie as she speaks.
katie
Alright, so! The Wicker Man. Once memorably described by the film journal Cinefantastique as “the Citizen Kane of horror films”. The Wicker Man is a 1973 British folk horror classic directed by Robin Hardy and written by Anthony Shaffer, inspired by David Penner’s 1967 novel, Ritual. It stars Edward Woodward as Sergeant Howie: an uptight policeman sent to the remote Scottish island of Summerisle to investigate the disappearance of a young girl named Rowan Morrison, based on a tip and photo that he received in the mail. Obviously, when he arrives the people of Summerisle are like, “You can’t come here. You need permission from Lord Summerisle.”
clip
[The sound of seagulls.] Harbour Master: Perhaps you would be good enough to explain matters to his lordship. He’s most particular who lands here.
katie
But he starts to look for Rowan, starting with her mother, going to her school, and everyone keeps… you know, keeps claiming that she doesn’t exist.
clip
Sergeant Howie: Now, do any of you recognize either the name or the photograph? Students: [In unison.] No. Librarian: There’s your answer, Sergeant. If she existed, we would know her.
katie
It’s very confusing. [Bridget agrees several times.] And then he goes to stay at the Red Man Inn, where he is [laughing] propositioned via song. [They laugh.] By the innkeeper’s daughter, Willow, who is played by Britt Ekland. And it really seems like everybody in the town is, like, in heat. [Bridget and Krudy agree.] As they’re preparing for May Day—‘cause they’re just, like, screwing in the fields and the cemeteries and he is a virgin and very deeply religious. And he’s very, very troubled by all of this. He ultimately ends up getting permission from Lord Summerisle, who is played by the inimitable horror icon Christopher Lee, and receives permission to exhume Rowan’s coffin.
clip
Sergeant Howie: Your Lordship is a justice of the peace. I need your permission to exhume her body, have it transported to the mainland for a pathologist’s report. Lord Summerisle: You suspect foul play? Sergeant Howie: I suspect murder and conspiracy to murder. Lord Summerisle: In that case, you must go ahead.
katie
All he finds inside is a dead rabbit or hare. And then Lord Summerisle starts to explain to him, like, why the—you know, that they worship the Old Gods and that it—they attribute all of their harvesting and their, you know, unique climate to the Old Gods and everything.
clip
Sergeant Howie: And you—you encourage them, in this? Lord Summerisle: Actively! It’s most important that each new generation born on Summerisle be made aware that here the Old Gods aren’t dead! Sergeant Howie: [Horrified.] And what of the true God?! Whose glory, churches, and monasteries have been built on these islands for generations past? Now, sir, what of him? Lord Summerisle: [Beat. Casually.] Well, he’s dead. He can’t complain.
katie
Sergeant Howie does some investigation. I do love that this is also, like, an investigation, like, true crime movie, almost. [They hum in agreement.] Where he’s like finding out where Rowan is and he, like, looks at these old photos and he discovers that he—he develops the theory that she’s being kept alive to be sacrificed at the May Day ritual. So, then he knocks out the innkeeper, steals his costume, joins the—joins the procession. I absolutely adore when Christopher Lee is like, [in an English accent] “You call that dancing, man?!” [They laugh and agree.]
clip
Music: Traditional music. Lord Summerisle: [Irritated.] What’s the matter with you, McGregor? You call that dancing?!
crosstalk
Katie: Anyway, they— Bridget: And he plays—is playing the fool, too. Katie: Yes! Yeah. Krudy: He’s playing Punch. Bridget: He’s playing Punch. Katie: Yes! True. Good point.
katie
So, he participates in all of their, you know—their parade, their ritual, the game where they almost cut people’s heads off. And—
bridget
[Chuckling.] It’s a game.
katie
Yeah, it’s a fun game. [They laugh.] And then they—he finally discovers Rowan at the sea—on a sea cliff, and she leads him into this cave and—on top of the cliff—and then suddenly everyone’s there and he’s like, “Oh my god, I’m the sacrifice.” [Krudy and Bridget make surprised noises.] “They’re gonna put me inside the wicker man with all these farm animals and set me on fire.” And he starts screaming. They start singing. He’s condemning them to hell.
clip
Sergeant Howie: [Screaming.] And ye shall all die! Accursed!
katie
They’re singing [laughing] and singing and dancing.
bridget
That’s a very crazy climax. [They agree.]
katie
And it’s like—the movie’s not all that scary. But the way it ends is so profoundly dark. [They agree.] And, like, the wicker man just collapses against, like, the setting sun and you’re like, “Ugh, God. That is—” You know, like it’s a quote-unquote “horror movie”, but there’s not that much horror in it.
krudy
You really know the guy is—I feel like you know that guy is fucked from, like, the moment he first sees the guys on—you know, on shore. [Bridget agrees.] And they’re at this distance and you’re just like, “This guy—” As soon as he lobs that little anchor, you know? He like, throws this pathetic anchor out. You’re like, “Oh god, this guy is—"
katie
Doomed.
krudy
Is doomed, doomed, doomed, doomed. [Bridget agrees.]
katie
Yeah. I mean, it’s interesting, because I—as I was watching it, obviously thinking about your movie—I mean, there’s so many weird parallels to Blow the Man Down. [Krudy laughs.] I mean, there’s the musical element, ‘cause you have— [They hum in agreement.] These sea shanties sun by fishermen that are woven throughout your film. And… there’s this musical element of these, like, ancient—you know—folk songs. But also new folk songs, which were created by a band called Magnet, that were created for the purpose of making this—the soundtrack. And they also are, like—
bridget
Is that the, like, the “corn rigs and barley rigs”?
crosstalk
Bridget, Krudy, Katie: [Singing.] Corn rigs and barley rigs! Katie: Ooh, what a jam! Krudy: [Singing dramatically.] Cooorn rigs and baaarley rigs! [Bridget laughs.]
music
"Corn Rigs" by Magnet from The Wicker Man (Original Motion Picture Soundtrack) Corn rigs and barley rigs and Corn rigs are bonnie I’ll not forget that happy night Among the rigs with Annie
krudy
I love it when there’s a refrain. Like, you’re pretty deep in, like, his little journey already and then there’s just, like, a cut to like a refrain of "Corn Rigs and Barley Rigs”.
bridget
Yeah, they come back to it!
krudy
But shit is fucked up, already. [They agree several times.] And you’re like, “Wait a minute—like, corn rigs and barley rigs?!” [Laughs.]
bridget
It’s, like, such benign music for, like, a—
krudy
[Laughing.] So wrong!
katie
Um, Magnet is considered to be a major influence on neofolk and psychedelic folk. [Bridget and Krudy make sounds of impressed surprise.] Obviously. Obviously. So, you know.
bridget
Magnet! Didn’t know I was such a fan! [Krudy agrees.]
katie
[Laughing.] I know. So— [Bridget chuckles.] Why did you guys decide to include these sea shanties in your—in your film? I mean, it really does give it, sort of like, an ancient, historical vibe—to the film. And then also really connects it to the place. I think Blow the Man Down, like, creates—you create such a sense of place, of this, like, New England fishing town, so well. So, were the sea shanties always there?
bridget
Um, thank you. Yeah. You wanna take it?
krudy
They really were. From the very beginning of the Blow the Man Down journey. [Bridget agrees several times as Krudy talks.] The sea shanties—it was always called Blow the Man Down, and I attribute, you know, the idea of the sea shanties a lot to Bridget, because she has, like, a really rich musical background. She’s a great singer. She has, like, music—grew up with a lot of music and was, like—‘cause we knew we wanted to do a fishing town. And Bridget was like, [excited] “Yeah! Sea shanties!” You know?
bridget
I feel like you were the most committed to the song once it was in there. And I was like, “I don’t know! Is this weird?!” [They chuckle.]
krudy
I was like, [in a deep, frat-boyish voice] “Oh my god, I LOVE it!” [Chuckles.]
bridget
Yeah, yeah. And, like, also I really give—you making it, like—really sticking to the fact that we needed the bookends, too. Of the—
krudy
Ooooh.
bridget
Of the—of the “Blow the Man Down” at the beginning and the end. Um—
krudy
That is the movie.
bridget
But, yeah, so—you know, we were starting to write the movie and we were—we knew fishing town. We had kind of—that was one of the things we both, like, bonded over. Where we were like—we literally got together and were like, [pleasantly] “Let’s write a feature today. Like, let’s start it.” [They chuckle.] And, “What do we write about?” And we’re like, “Well, we both have sisters.” And we both were really attracted to fishing towns from our own past. And so, then we started listening to sea shanties. And I think the song title already felt like it foretold some sort of plot. And, like, it was juicy. And I think we were just—yeah. Really attracted to it from the beginning.
krudy
And we thought it was a powerful name, yeah! [Bridget agrees several times.] But we obviously didn’t [chuckles] know what the movie was about, then. But it really was—like, that first day—it was like, day one, like [dreamily], “Blow the man down.” [They laugh.] Cut to eight years later.
bridget
But I think, weirdly, I associate it with the same thing—like, I mean, I feel like we wrote this movie over years, because it was, like, one of the first and last things we worked on together. We—you know—we were… we learned how to write over the course of this movie. So, it had many different chapters and phases. And I feel like there was this whole other phase where, like, we’re pulling, like, reference images. And we were always, you know—Krudy’s so good at pulling images and she, like, pulled all these amazing paintings of, like, just, like, a woman standing in front of the ocean. Or, like—you know.
krudy
Like, a lot of Winslow Homer.
bridget
Winslow Homer and, like, other—like, just amazing things with, like, the ocean and, like, this timelessness. And so—I think we—I always put them in the same, like, spiritual family of what the movie wanted to be. Where we wanted it to be a modern tale, but we wanted it to have this, like, spiritual core that had, like, this timelessness to it. And I think the shanties really helped us feel like this is a tale, but it’s any tale. And it’s any woman. [They agree.] And it’s any town, kind of thing. So, that was, like, the juicy part of it, for us.
katie
Yeah. I also feel like there’s some interesting parallels in the—in the policemen, in your film. [They all laugh.]
krudy
Woah. Woah, I never thought about this.
bridget
Okay, ‘cause this—‘cause just to be clear, like, Krudy had never seen Wicker Man until we were in production.
katie
I know! I think that’s so interesting! [They agree.] That you guys, like, were nooot…
bridget
And I had forgotten about it and I—when I think about how it influenced us, I was like—‘cause when we actually watched it, we were talking a lot about, like, faces. [Katie agrees several times.] “Ooh yeah! We’ll have all these faces and the faces help sell the town, too.” [Krudy gasps.] And that was, like, one of the things we took from the movie. [Bridget and Katie agree several times as Krudy talks.]
krudy
Oh my gosh, you know what else I was thinking when we were watching it is—[chuckles] we always talked about how, like… kind of from Godfather, when there’s extra people in a room, it makes it more intimidate—makes the conversation more intimidating. And that opening scene, where the policeman goes up and there’s those guy—you know, the old men.
bridget
All the guys.
krudy
But a lot of them don’t talk? [Bridget agrees several times.] But, man, that pack seems so intimidating. And I remember, we were talking—I mean, this is a version of Blow the Man Down that has, like, ten times the budget. But these scenes with women having the conversations where it was like, “Yeah!” And it’s like a big room with, like, a lot—like, there’s just women in the background just not saying anything. Just, like…
bridget
Oh yeah, yeah. Like the version of the—where it was like 20 women in that Susie Gallagher scene.
krudy
Just like 20 women! A lot of them don’t talk. They’re just intimidating. [They laugh.] And, like, cut to, like, a budget, like, slash, slash, slash, slash.
bridget
It’d be like, “Ooor three.”
krudy
“How ‘bout three? Does three work?”
katie
Listen, June Squibb, Annette O’Toole, Marceline—you know—Hugo. Like. [They agree.] That’s enough.
bridget
That’s all you need. That’s all you need.
krudy
But there was stuff—there was stuff that, then, seeing it in— [Bridget agrees several times.] You know, Wicker Man—also that opening was really—I remember watching it in production. Or, like, we were just about to go into production—that opening with the seaplane and the remoteness that—they really set the context up so well. That really stayed with us. We were like, “Wow. We gotta think about that.”
bridget
It’s worth it to, like, slow things down at the beginning to really show you’re in the boonies.
krudy
Mm-hm. And to set the scene. [Bridget agrees.] You know, this place is surrounded by water and—where there’s nothing else around.
katie
Right, where he tries to leave the—Sergeant Howie tries to leave and the guy’s like, “Yeah! Someone could row you to the mainland, but it’ll take a week.” [Bridget affirms.] And you’re like—and he’s like, “I guess I’ll just stay here! And… figure it out!” [Laughs.]
bridget
He’s like—that’s when you’re like, “Oh, you’re really screwed.”
krudy
Ooh man. [Chuckles.]
katie
But the—I mean, I don’t—I was kind of thinking about why—you know, I watch Wicker Man and I’m just like, “Why isn’t every movie Wicker Man?” I just—I feel like I constantly wanna watch a movie that’s like Wicker Man. [Bridget agrees.] But I’m like, “I’ve seen that too many times. I need to watch something else.” And then—it’s just not—nothing else is as good as that!
bridget
Nothing is as Wicker Man as Wicker Man.
katie
No! No.
krudy
But what—but what is that?!
crosstalk
Krudy: What is that? Katie: What is it?! Krudy: Let’s unpack that. Bridget: The je ne se quoi. Katie: I know.
krudy
Is it just that it’s—that it follows, like, a loose enough framework, but has so much X-factor? [Katie agrees.] I mean, it’s really like—[chuckles]
crosstalk
Bridget: It’s a procedural, so you have a very— Krudy: That’s what I think really helps.
bridget
You have a very clear through line, so you’re not, like, lost, but then you’re totally exploring this world. I feel like, in filmmaking, a lot of it is to—I mean, I feel like watching movies, a lot of it is we wanna explore a world we’ve never been into. And I think that [chuckle] is big time, with Wicker Man. You’re like, “Yeah, I am interested in, like, old, pagan societies.” Especially when they’re having, like, weird, like, fuck-fests. [They laugh.] Like, outside—The act one—
krudy
The Act One fuck-fest freeze frame. It’s like—
bridget
Yeah—oh, yeah, the freeze frame. With—I noticed all the women were on top. [Katie agrees.]
krudy
Yeah, I noticed too. I made a note in my notebook about it.
crosstalk
Krudy: I was like, “Women all on top.” Bridget: “Women. On. Top.” Katie: Yeah. [Music fades in.]
katie
We’re gonna—we’re gonna take a quick break and we’re gonna come back and talk about—we’re gonna dig in. [Krudy makes a sound of surprise and Bridget laughs.] On Willow’s seduction scene.
crosstalk
Krudy: Oh no! Bridget: So exciting.
music
“Switchblade Comb” by Mobius VanChocStraw.
promo
Music: Bouncy electronic music. Dave Shumka: Hi, I’m Dave. Graham Clark: Hi, I’m Graham. Dave: And we’re two house DJs who have been trapped inside our drum machine. Graham: We love it here, and we’d love it if you stopped by and visited us every week— Both: —on Stop Podcasting Yourself— Dave: —here on MaximumFun.org. We’re just a couple of doofuses from— Graham: —Canada? Dave: —and listen to our show or perish. [Graham chuckles.] Stop Podcasting Yourself. Graham: [Laughing lightly] On MaximumFun.org. [Music plays for another few moments, then ends.]
music
“Switchblade Comb” by Mobius VanChocStraw.
katie
Welcome back to Switchblade Sisters. We are talking The Wicker Man with Blow the Man Down filmmakers Bridget Savage Cole and Danielle Krudy. And we were about to just really dive into one of the best, most memorable scenes of the film. Which is when Willow, the innkeeper’s daughter—played by Britt Ekland—seduces [laughs]—attempts to seduce Sergeant Howie with a—with a siren song, in the middle of the night. And she dances naked in her room and, like, bangs on the wall. I do love that the percussion— [They agree emphatically.] —comes from her banging on the wall. It’s—I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything like that in a movie before. [They laugh.] I don’t know, have I? Like, I don’t know.
bridget
It’s—that is the scene where, if you’ve made it to that scene, you—there’s no way you’re not watching ‘til the rest of the—end of the movie. Like, ‘cause you’re like—I feel like it’s also—it hit—it strikes you where you’re like—it’s the first time there’s nudity in the film, I think. [Katie affirms.] Or, no, is the the—is it after—it’s before—it’s after the fuck-fest.
krudy
It’s after the fuck-fest. But it’s so, um…
katie
Casual. [Katie agrees.] It’s such a casual nudity.
bridget
Casual nudity. It’s got, like, just, like, also, like, a weirdo factor, too. Do you know what I mean? [Katie hums in agreement.] It’s just something kind of like—
katie
Like it’s not totally sexy. It’s just so strange what’s happening.
bridget
Yeah! It’s like a little doofy. The rhythm is never quite on beat and, like, she’s banging this thing and—but also it’s just juicy on some level, too. It’s like this repressed, Christian guy doing this, like, dance of agony and repression, like, on one side.
krudy
Love it.
bridget
And he’s like—you know, like smelling the door and, like, pressing himself up to it. And then he, like—she’s on the other side of this door, like, knocking and singing and beckoning him to bed.
krudy
I think that’s where you’re actually like—this guy is—he is capable of being tempted. [They agree.] This story might get juicier. The scene is shot really bizarrely too. I mean, when the innkeeper shows up, right? There’s such a wink when she first gets introduced. [Bridget agrees several times.] And you’re—you’re actually aligned with, like, the people in the inn, watching him be introduced to her. And it just feels like everybody’s like, “Okay, buddy. Good luck.” You know? It’s so—yeah.
bridget
She’s literally presented as, like, the—“Here’s your—here’s your sex, tonight.”
krudy
“Here’s your sex—your side of sex.” [Katie agrees.] And then the scene is shot where she’s—
bridget
They sing a whole song about it.
katie
Yes, they do! The innkeeper’s daughter. Or the landlord’s daughter.
krudy
She’s kind of almost mugging the lens, you know what I mean? She kind of is looking into the lens, which is really—doesn’t happen a lot of other places in the movie. [Katie agrees several times.] And there’s that weird shot where she’s kind of, like, the most dead-on and it goes out the window and she, like, blows the kiss out the window and the camera floats. I mean, it’s a really bizarre perspective.
bridget
There’s also some strange cuts just because they use a body double, when it’s—when it’s full-body. And that I only noticed this watch—or maybe I’ve seen it before, because I was like—[chuckles] you know, it’s just so funny when they cut to the wide, too. ‘Cause like, the dance moves are just funny. [Katie agrees.] The dance moves of her—
krudy
They don’t go with the song! [They laugh.]
bridget
They don’t go—they’re not on rhythm with the song. She’s like—you know, it’s like this big naked butt, like, swooping around and, like, knocking on the doors.
music
"Willow's Song" by Magnet from The Wicker Man (Original Motion Picture Soundtrack). Please come Say how do The things I’ll give to you
bridget
Like, okay, so this was also—like, speaking of the scene, bringing back—so, Katie Walsh and I have a mutual friend, Edith Zimmerman, who is my old roommate. And after we both watched this movie together, we used to do that dance. Like, when we were, like, moving between each other’s rooms—we were roommates, so like, we would do that—
crosstalk
Bridget and Krudy: [Whispering.] Boom, boom, boom, boom-boom-boom-boom. Bridget: Like the smacking. Krudy: [Singing.] Boom, boom, boom.
bridget
And it’s like moving your ass and just, like, being—it’s, like, really, like, a butt-forward dance. [They agree.]
krudy
It’s butt-forward, but the smacking is also—‘cause it’s like—she’s just, like, patting and smacking.
bridget
It’s, like, awkward dance moves and then, like, this body-double butt and then, like, this—and then all of a sudden, they will just cut on a head turn to the close-up of the other actor.
krudy
Of the guy.
bridget
The girl.
crosstalk
Krudy: Oooh. Katie: Oh, to Britt Ekland. Krudy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bridget: The closeup to Britt. Katie: Mm-hm.
bridget
And then she—that’s like—I think that’s, like, this big moment where then, all of the sudden, she’s staring right at camera.
krudy
Yeah. It’s really tripped out. And this is—Well, as a Catholic woman— [They laugh.]
katie
It troubled you to your core.
krudy
I was like, [sighs dramatically and sings] “I remember the feelings!” [The others laugh.]
bridget
And there’s, like, the shame and the guilt and stuff. Yeah.
krudy
Yeah. And, like, really—he felt—like, he so committed that scene. [The others agree several times as she continues.] He’s, like, sweating and just so, like—when he’s staring at the door you’re—it really is, like, his most intense moment in the movie. And it really, uh—okay, also the landlord daughter. I was thinking about—you know, the song that introduces her, they go to these crazy low angles.
crosstalk
Bridget: I know! Katie: Oh yeah. Krudy: And that’s when you’re like, “There are—” Bridget: I thought of you! Krudy: Oh, because [deeply] I love low angles. Bridget: [Deeply.] ‘Cause you love low angles. [Bridget and Katie agree several times as Krudy continues.]
krudy
But also, it was just, like, such a horror—it felt like such a horror low angle of like, “You are so screwed, dude!” Like, I feel like there’s—keeps being these little things of, like—
bridget
The grotesque. [Katie agrees.]
krudy
Yeah, the grotesque. Like, “Good luck, man.”
bridget
That was very, um, Little Mermaid, “Les Poissons”, kind of energy. [Katie laughs, Krudy agrees.] Yes. Which is a big reference for us in Blow the Man Down.
katie
Really?! [Krudy affirms.] “Les Poissons”?
krudy
The original “Les Poissons”.
bridget
The original “Les Poissons”, from the Disney movie. We watched it as a reference for the opening fisherman sequence.
krudy
That and “Tradition” from Fiddler on the Roof, the movie version. [Bridget agrees.]
katie
Oh, as to how you wanted to sort—how you wanted the song to feel or how you wanted to shoot it?
bridget
The opening fisherman sequence. Yeah. How we wanted it to look, where it should really be, like, almost—almost, like, larger than life kind of framings, if that makes sense.
krudy
And sync and, like—I don’t know if this word is right: syncopated? Like, there’s something where there’s sound—kind of, like, you know, the—almost like the banging on the doors. Where there’s—
bridget
Yeah, the, like, that the images have rhythm, kind of thing. [The others agree. Katie makes a sound of surprise.]
crosstalk
Krudy: Deep cut. Deep cut. Bridget: “Les Poissons”.
katie
Of course! I mean, how could you forget. You’re like, [in a cartoonish French accent] “Les Poissons!”
krudy
My favorite part about the Willow thing is, like, the next morning when she goes to wake him up. [Bridget agrees several times.] And she adjusts the picture. Because there’s that moment when he’s in bed and you’re like, “Did that happen? Was it a dream? Are we in his subjectivity? Like, did they feed him something weird?” And then she just does the little thing and they don’t even play it up. She just adjusts the picture.
bridget
But it’s also, she’s like, “I know you were struggling.” [They agree.] Like, I know you were struggling. She’s like, [innocently] “I called to you last night!”
krudy
Yeah, “You never came!”
bridget
“You never came!”
katie
Her—I do have to say, her accent is questionable. Uuuh. [They laugh.] And I heard that she was dubbed.
crosstalk
Bridget: Whoaaa. Krudy: I feel like the whole movie’s dubbed. Is that just me? Bridget: The whole-- yeah, just—well. I don’t know.
katie
But she—I mean, she is Swedish. And she’s, like, doing a Scottish accent. But I heard that she was dubbed. I don’t know. I’m like—the whole thing was a little awkward.
bridget
Oh, there’s whole moments where she’s—they’re—she’s saying lines and her mouth is not moving at all. [Laughs.] I just remember—
krudy
Yeah, that’s why I feel like—I literally feel like that’s the whole movie, honestly.
bridget
I just remember, at one point it’s like, “Would you like to get up this morning?” And I was like, “Her lips aren’t moving.” [They laugh.] Like, it was something really simple.
katie
I do feel like there is a tone that you guys achieve, in Blow the Man Down, which is kind of like a quirky, almost like “what’s happening?”—like, it’s not as mischievous, necessarily, as what this movie is doing, but kind of like a—it’s not like a dark comedy, but there’s an element of sort of—I feel like the score that you have really helps with that. [They agree.] Where it’s sort of like, “What’s going on here, in this town? There’s, like, bad, dark stuff happening, but we’re also still, like, rooting for the people who have made mistakes and done bad things.” I mean, what was the tone that you were trying to achieve in this, like, essentially crime… thriller?
bridget
Yeah, I think you’re describing it really well. I mean, we actually just talked a lot about how to make it fun.
krudy
Yeah, it was really—
bridget
We were like, “We want people to understand they can enjoy the stress.” If that makes sense? [Katie affirms.] So, there—it was—gosh.
krudy
Otherwise it would be real dark and—
bridget
Yeah! ‘Cause that—a movie like that can get heavy pretty fast. [They agree.] And so, we’re—the music really is lightening the tone, in a lot of ways. Or—what we call it is adding saltiness.
krudy
Yeah, it’s salty. [Bridget agrees several times.] And it was—it was always like the characters, individually, like, always cracked us up. You know? Just, like, writing them and the way they would talk. And of course, there’s sort of this darker, heavier context of, like, the brothel and the murders. But, like, the personalities had a lot of life and really spoke to that, sort of—the fun. The joyous—and we also just wanted—yeah, we wanted to really make the movie like—more like a ride. Where it’s fun. Brian McCumber, who did the score, really understood that and brought it out in an amazing way.
katie
It’s such a great score.
crosstalk
Krudy: With a lot of crazy percussion. [Chuckles.] Bridget: I think he did a lot of—yeah!
bridget
He, like, kind of—we were like, yeah it should—I feel like he really understood that it needed to be, like, real instruments and rattle-y and crackly and kind of this, sort of—like, the feeling of, like, you know, being in an old shipyard. You know? Just kind of like clanky, janky, salty.
krudy
Yeah, like a—kind of like an old fisherman who, like, smiles and no teeth, but he’s, like, laughing. Like, that’s like kind of—
crosstalk
Bridget: That’s like what we wanted the movie to feel like. Krudy: You know what I mean? Like that’s what—that’s what it should feel like. Bridget: It was like, “Make the score an old fisherman with no teeth.” [Katie laughs.] Krudy: Well, and it’s like— Katie: But you know what?! Someone got that and made that! Bridget: Yes! He did! Krudy: Yeah, he really did get that. So. Katie: That’s amazing.
bridget
Fun fact. Wesleyan fun fact. He recorded all the instruments in Crowell Concert Hall.
katie
Nice!
bridget
Yeah. He lives in Middletown.
krudy
That’s a deep cut for a very specific listening audience out there.
bridget
For the Wesleyan alum.
katie
But—so, both of you have, like, a camera/cinematography background. But you have a cinematographer, Todd Banhazl, who shot Blow the Man Down. But you obviously talk about filmmaking in terms of, you know, shots and all of these things a lot. So, how do you think that background in being DPs and in training and camera, like, affects your directing? I mean, obviously you have to choose the shots and everything, but it’s sort of like—you know, is that—?
bridget
I think getting started it was so much—I, first of all, I never really, like, feel like I graduating to being like a “DP” DP. But, [laughs] but we were definitely shooters and we were constantly shooting. And I think initially it was really good to give technical confidence. And I think this was—is a very specific feeling, when you’re on set. And oftentimes, when we were starting, we’d be like—you know, one of the few women. And I think when you have technical knowledge, it gives you confidence. [Krudy agrees.] And it gives you ability to ask for what you want and it’s pretty common—probably in any field—that sometimes when people don’t wanna do something, they give you a technical [chuckling] reason why they don’t wanna do it. And so, if you have the technical knowledge then you can actually, like—understand—
krudy
You can challenge it.
bridget
You can challenge.
krudy
Or understand.
bridget
Or understand. Or, you know.
katie
You’re arming yourself. [They agree.]
bridget
You don’t feel, like, at their—at the mercy of things you don’t understand.
krudy
Yes, that’s huge.
bridget
And so, I think that’s, like, really was, like, really important to us, personally. I can’t—I mean, speaking for myself for sure. And then—yeah, I mean, Todd has, like, just elevated it so much for us, too. And I think one thing I always hear from you, Krudy, and I—like—I really believe in, is your sort of like this conviction that shots matter. That shooting something with a long lens feels different from a wide lens. And that having this, like—this kind of a composition is going to feel like this and this is going to align you with X and this is gonna align you with Y and to really understand that shot scales and lens choices matter for story reasons.
krudy
Yeah, for story. [Bridget agrees several times.] And I think that was, like, actually the journey of, you know, having a camera background to the role of—you know, being the director and writer. You know. Doing it with Bridget. Like, I actually feel like it was forgetting a lot of the camera stuff, too. Letting go of that, because there’s a lot—you know, you really have to just think about storytelling. And you have a—that’s why it’s great to have a DP that you trust. And to—we’ve worked for Todd, you know. We’d worked with Todd in a lot of different circumstances. I worked as Todd’s AC in the past. So, really trusting him to be on, you know, the lighting and to, like, be on the lot and be—you know—captain of the technical team so that you have more freedom. So, it was like—I mean, I definitely made shorts where I got too obsessed with the gear and the camera and just, like, so into the camera that I was forgetting, like, about story stakes and emotion. And so, weirdly, the arc is like—let go of some of that stuff? Which actually really—[laughs] Once you get older, you let go of some—like, I just am like, “Man, I really forget a lot,” in this kind of sad way. But also, it’s just, maybe, somewhere in a different utility.
bridget
It’s in a different thing. I think it’s actually understanding, like… you can describe a feeling and the DP should get it. [Krudy agrees several times.] And then if you’re—if something’s not aligning, you can troubleshoot with them. But also, like, it’s really—sometimes it is a curse to know… to be asking too many questions about lenses and blah, blah, blah. I’ve definitely tried to let go of that.
katie
When you’re trying to focus more on story, performance. Yeah.
bridget
And also trusting. Just be like, “Even though you pictured it on this lens, maybe it’s fine on this.” [Katie agrees.]
krudy
Yeah, ‘cause it can get really—it can get really literal when you’re imaging scenes with your mind lens, as they call it. [They chuckle. Bridget agrees several times as Krudy continues.] Like—so, but also in reality, things are different and there’s different compromises to make. But I think you’re really smart, Bridget, about articulating that having the knowledge helps you troubleshoot. So, knowing, you know, that you can shift a couple lens—like, knowing to ask—maybe the problem—“Maybe why it doesn’t look right is the lens.” And I’ve seen you do that so much and it’s really, like—it’s always remembering that that can be one of the factors to troubleshoot. [Music fades in.]
katie
Awesome. Well, we will take another break and we’ll come back and talk more Wicker Man.
music
“Switchblade Comb” by Mobius VanChocStraw.
promo
Music: Upbeat rock plays in the background. Announcer: Dead Pilots Society brings you exclusive readings of comedy pilots that were never made, featuring actors like Patton Oswalt— Patton Oswalt: So, the vampire from the future sleeps in the dude’s studio during the day, and they hunt monsters at night. It’s Blade meets The Odd Couple! [Audience laughs] Announcer: —Adam Scott and Jane Levy— Jane Levy: Come on, Cory. She’s too serious, too business-y. She doesn’t know the hokey-pokey. Adam Scott: Well, she’ll learn what it’s all about. [Audience laughs.] Announcer: —Busy Philipps and Dave Koechner. Dave Koechner: Maybe this is family. Busy Philipps: My Uncle Tal, who showed his wiener to Cinderella at Disneyland, is family. Do you want him staying with us? [Light audience laughter.] Dave: He did stay with us, for three months. Busy: And he was a delight! [Audience laughs harder.] Announcer: A new pilot every month, only on Dead Pilots Society from Maximum Fun.
music
“Switchblade Comb” by Mobius VanChocStraw.
katie
Welcome back to Switchblade Sisters. We are talking about Wicker Man. And one thing we wanted to talk about was sort of the, like, cultural influence of this movie. Which, when you watch is, like, kind of a smallish—like, it’s not a huge story, but it has an outsized influence. I think. I mean, I mentioned that I always wanna watch movies that look like Wicker Man. [Bridget chuckles.] And it does—it is, sort of, like the original, like, quote-unquote “folk horror”. And obviously that was a very popular folk horror movie.
bridget
What are other folk horror movies?
katie
So, I was reading an article that they—it’s this one and then a movie called The Blood on Satan’s Cloth. [Bridget and Krudy hum in interest.] Which is on Shudder.
bridget
Have you seen it?
katie
And I will be watching it hopefully soon. [They chuckle.] And then—I don’t know what the—I don’t know what the other one that they mentioned is—was, is like. But I really wanna see [chuckling] The Blood on Satan’s Cloth. But it’s kind of becoming, like, more popular. I mean, obviously Midsommar last year. Ari Aster’s Midsommar was huge—hugely influenced by The Wicker Man. And it’s interesting because people will say, “Oh, well—” I’m like, “I just wanna watch Wicker Man.” And people will say, “Well, what about Midsommar?” And I’m like, “Yeah, but it’s just—I don’t know.” It doesn’t scratch the same itch. I don’t know. Maybe I just need, like, a prudish police officer character. [Laughs.]
bridget
Yeah, I mean, it’s a different—it’s totally different. Like, it’s a different fish in the water.
krudy
But it’s the same water—it’s like a similar water.
bridget
It’s the same water. Similar water.
krudy
Different fish.
bridget
I think—I loved Midsommar. And I just thought that the—I loved the folk art that they used in it was so cool.
krudy
Mm, the art was amazing.
bridget
And so good.
katie
And I think he did a ton of research on that. So, it’s, like, super authentic.
krudy
Yeah, I was looking at the Swedish—this, like, Swedish art—like, folk art exhibit in Cleveland, Ohio, where I’m from. And gosh. I mean, it really was, like, so—like, channeling all the iconography in it.
bridget
And it was like—had such a wit to it. Like, the embroidery with, like, the pubes being cut into the thing. Uh. It’s so ridiculous, you know?
katie
Yeah, I mean I think Midsommar is, like—it’s also, you know, it’s one of those movies that it’s a horror movie but it kind of tests the boundaries of horror storytelling and kind of flips them by having everything be in the daytime and flowers and fields and—
krudy
There’s not as much of a wick—[stumbles and laughs] a wink. A wick. [Laughs.] A wink.
katie
No, but it is, like, actually funny.
bridget
It is—yeah, it is funny. Like, the relationship with those, like, college dudes is quite funny.
katie
You know the scene where they make him have sex with the young girl. I mean, that’s—comedy.
bridget
That’s done in a really witty place.
krudy
That has a wink, you’re right. But I—yeah, I wouldn’t say it was, like—you know, the opening. Just because of the tone of the opening of the movie, I didn’t really feel like it was—
katie
The tone is heavier, for—at the beginning. Oh yeah.
krudy
It’s more, like, grounding you in a place of being terrified, I feel like? [Katie agrees.] Where, you know, I think—and not, like—not judging it good or bad for not having a wink. I just—that’s one thing I think, just thinking about watching the film.
bridget
But similar takeaways, I would say. [Krudy agrees.] Where even though you’re like, “Oh, this is—” You know—so many of your main characters are being killed in Midsommar. And you are supposed to be scared of this society, you also are won over by the society. And I think the same thing happens in Wicker Man. [The others agree several times.] You know, it’s a movie where the main character is literally terrified of sexuality. And the movie is celebrating sexuality and saying like, “Fuck-fest! Look at these naked bodies! Like, we have got three blondes! And they’ve got boobs, boobs, boobs!” It’s literally like the movie loves, like, nudity. And, like, loves it and is celebrating it. And, like, actually is like, “Dude, don’t be a stick in the mud. They’re just dancing around naked.” Like, just—I feel like it’s like—
krudy
Like, kind of like the question is, like, “What are you so afraid of, dude?”
crosstalk
Bridget: Yes! Yeah! Krudy: Like, that’s like really— Bridget: What are you so scared of? Katie: Yeah. Krudy: That’s really the dramatic question.
katie
One thing I did wanna ask about—kind of pivoting a little bit—was, you know, Christopher Lee—who stars as Lord Summerisle—he was really trying to get away from his Hammer horror roles as Frankenstein and Dracula. So, he had this really established—he was actually very involved in the development of this project. But—and I love his performance. I love his, like, wild hair.
krudy
Yeah, he’s great.
katie
Yeah. And it is—you know, it’s in the horror vein but it’s a little bit different from what he’s usually—what we know him for. [Bridget agrees.] But he has this really established screen persona. And then you, in your film, you have Margo Martindale—who also has this established screen persona. [Bridget makes an intrigued sound of understanding.] Did you always have her in mind? Or was that someone that you, like, wanted to work with, you know, her presence? Her—you know, kind of strong, you know, authoritarian [chuckling] mama presence?
krudy
What a tee-up for a answer that is going to surprise you. Well, Margo was cast very late in the process. [Bridget confirms.] And is, in the story of Blow the Man Down, this person who then became, like, the embodiment of the movie.
bridget
Of the movie. Yeah, yeah.
krudy
So, it’s just like the—tee-up the journey of filmmaking. Of—
bridget
Casting is just a crazy process.
krudy
It’s a crazy process.
katie
And scheduling.
bridget
Yeah, scheduling and you’re at mercy, and people drop out, and da-da-da. But! We really feel like casting Margo Martindale was like the best possible thing to ever happen to the movie. Because she is fun to watch! [Krudy agrees.]
katie
She’s great.
bridget
And she has swagger. And she is, like—carries herself like a queen. And that really is, like—
krudy
Very regal.
bridget
—something she has in real life. Like, she really lights up the room and is, like, charming and naughty and ridic—and outrageous.
krudy
Speaks her—speaks her miiind! [Bridget agrees.] And makes [whispering] jokes like crazy.
bridget
And she’s just, like, so—she’s got so much chops, too. Like, she just is, like, such a lifer—as far as acting goes. [Krudy agrees.] I just, like—we just think she could do anything. [Chuckles.] [Katie agrees.]
krudy
I mean, we always loved the character of Enid. You know, writing her was so much fun. [Bridget agrees.] Even though she was—you know, she’s a—like a quote—you know, “naughty woman” and she has, like—her moral compass is broken. But she was really fun to always put in a scene and was, like, this X factor. And that really is what Margo Martindale was, in every scene. Is bringing her own… like, humor and wit and just personality. So, we’re so thankful that—and we really give it up to Margo for seeing the role and knowing that she would knock it out of the park.
bridget
Yeah, she really made it her own.
krudy
She wouldn’t have come all the way to Maine if she didn’t know, you know? And just show up for that shoot knowing that she was like, “I can—I can do this. And make you love this role.”
bridget
It was Margo’s role.
katie
Yeah. I love that you said she had swagger. [Bridget lets out a delighted “ugh” in agreement.] ‘Cause she really does—when she’s got her, like, fur and her cane and she’s just, like—you know, she’s got gangster moves. And…
bridget
She knows—yeah, and she spends money on herself, man. Like, I feel like that’s the biggest difference between her and the other women in the town. You know? It’s just like—in New England there’s such a, like, thing where you’re like, “Oh, don’t mind me and I’m not gonna make a fuss out of myself.” And it kind of can, like, be stifling. [Chuckles.]
krudy
Yeah. Like, “Don’t show off!” Like—
bridget
“Yeah, we don’t show off.” Or nothing ostentatious, you know?
krudy
Yeah, don’t call attention.
bridget
And she’s like—she’s like, “I’ve made my money and I’m gonna spend my money. And I’m gonna get my nails done and—I will—I will be broke, but I’m wearing lipstick and I have, like, a nice—and dress nice.” You know. So, we kind of always—
krudy
Well, it’s like pride. It’s like, almost like a pride. That’s—
bridget
She’s got pride! Yeah. In a culture that doesn’t always have—women don’t always have, like, a lot of pride. So, we just love that she enjoys herself and her persona and she’s got her own, like, cult of person—like, you know, her own story she’s written around herself, too. You know, to—you know.
krudy
Oh, Enid?
bridget
Yeah! [Krudy agrees.] She, like, sees herself as a like a savior in a town of—yeah.
krudy
And a maverick, you know? [Bridget agrees.] And has kind of, like, built herself in with this own narrative of, “Well. I made mine and the rest of you are just haters.” [The others agree.]
katie
Yeah. Haters. The haters. Well, I think that’s about it for this episode. But thank you guys so much. This was such a fun conversation. [Bridget agrees.] Love that I got to do it with you. [Krudy thanks her.] Longtime friends. Everyone watch Wicker Man and everyone watch Blow the Man Down. How can we see Blow the Man Down?
bridget
Blow the Man Down is going to be released as an Amazon Original after March 20th. I don’t know when this is airing—
krudy
On March 20th.
bridget
On March 20th.
katie
So, streaming on Amazon, March 20th. [Bridget confirms.]
krudy
Included with Prime. Check it out.
crosstalk
Katie: Watch ‘em both. On—double-feature. Krudy: Shout out to the— Bridget: Double-feature. Krudy: Shout-out to the candy shop in Wicker Man. We didn’t get to talk about it, but I love it.
bridget
Oh, the candy shop is so good. [Katie chuckles.]
krudy
The giant children that you could eat.
bridget
Oh, [laughing] the children you could eat. [They laugh.] Can I do my last shout-out?
katie
Yes! Last shout-outs for Wicker Man.
bridget
Wicker Man—final Wicker Man shout-out to the opening title card that says: [Krudy gasps.] “The filmmakers would like to thank Lord Summerisle.”
krudy
I was—I had a note about that!
katie
I also had a note about that. Didn’t get to it.
bridget
And I was like, “Are they pulling a Fargo?”
crosstalk
Bridget: Where they’re like, “This story is absolutely true!” Krudy: They’re pulling a Fargo! Bridget: And it’s not. Katie: It’s the original Blair Witch. Bridget and Krudy: It’s the original Blair Witch. Katie: Yeah. Also— Krudy: Take that, internet! Katie: Could be a folk horror movie. Alright. Bridget: Blair Witch? Katie: Yeah. Krudy: Definitely. Bridget: Interestiiing. Katie: Yeah. Krudy: Definitely.
katie
Alright, well, we could do, like, another hour on this alone. [They laugh.] Maybe we’ll have to do a round two sometime, but thank you guys so much and talk to you soon! [Music fades in.]
crosstalk
Bridget and Krudy: Thanks, Katie!
music
“Switchblade Comb” by Mobius VanChocStraw.
katie
Thank you for listening to Switchblade Sisters. If you like what you’re hearing, please leave us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts. If you wanna let us know what you think of the show, you can tweet at us @SwitchbladePod or email us at SwitchbladeSisters@maximumfun.org. Please check out our Facebook group: Facebook.com/groups/switchbladesisters. Our producer is Casey O’Brien. Our senior producer is Laura Swisher. This is a production of MaximumFun.org. [Music ends.]
clip
Music: Traditional music. Lord Summerisle: What’s the matter with you, McGregor?! Do you call that dancing?!
speaker 2
Comedy and culture.
speaker 3
Artist owned—
speaker 4
—audience supported.
About the show
Switchblade Sisters is a podcast providing deep cuts on genre flicks from a female perspective. Every week, screenwriter and former film critic April Wolfe sits down with a phenomenal female film-maker to slice-and-dice a classic genre movie – horror, exploitation, sci-fi and many others! Along the way, they cover craft, the state of the industry, how films get made, and more. Mothers, lock up your sons, the Switchblade Sisters are coming!
Follow @SwitchbladePod on Twitter and join the Switchblade Sisters Facebook group. Email them at switchbladesisters@maximumfun.org.
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