Transcript
music
"Switchblade Comb" by Mobius VanChocStraw. A jaunty, jazzy tune reminiscent of the opening theme of a movie. Music continues at a lower volume as April introduces herself and her guest, then fades out.
april wolfe
Welcome to Switchblade Sisters, where women get together to slice and dice our favorite action and genre films. I'm April Wolfe. Every week, I invite a new female filmmaker on—a writer, director, actor, or producer—and we talk in-depth about one of their fave genre films, perhaps one that influenced their own work in a weird way, and today I'm very excited to have writer Julia Prescott here with me. Hi, Julia!
julia prescott
Hi! [Chuckles.] [Music fades out.]
april
For those of you who aren't as familiar with Julia's work, please let me give you a rundown of her life: Julia was born and raised in North Hollywood with two parents who came out to LA to make it, and was infected by the industry bug. She went to an arts magnet high school and carpooled with the sisters from—is it Haim (Haim)? Is that how you—?
julia
Haim, yeah.
april
Wow! [Julia chuckles.] Before moving on to an arts college to study cinematography until it broke her soul! It was her time working at a three-screen indie theater in Berkeley that helped her find her way, and then she went to film school at Chapman to practice her writing skills. She started doing stand-up and interning at Warner Brothers, FX, and Comedy Central. Pretty much everywhere. Even her stint working at Disneyland, however, did not stymie her passion for film. [Julia laughs, April stifles laughter.] Right before she hit the graduation stage, she got her first writing gig on Mad, a Cartoon Network show produced by WB, a connection that she got through her internships. It was the toughest job of her life, and that's where she learned to write. Julia then moved on to write for The Aquabats! Super Show! before playing a character on the show in season two, and then... nothin'.
julia
Then nothin'! [Laughs.]
april
She hit a dry patch and got further into stand-up and writing for herself. And then the animation studios came calling: Disney, DreamWorks, Nick, Cartoon Network. She wrote for all those places before selling her own shows to WB and Adaptive Studios. In 2018, she finally got to see her own show made. That's Townies, which she describes as "an O.C. in the Old West, horny teen comedy Western." Alright! [Julia laughs.] It stars Natalie Palamides as a girl named Boy.
julia
Yeah.
april
Attempting to become the world's first hangwoman executioner. [Both laugh.] Since, she's sold a show to Disney, which is a little hush-hushhhh.
julia
Hush-hushhh.
april
And written a Simpsons book, and the book Basic Algebra for Basic Bitches.
julia
Yeah.
april
There's a lot of Bs.
julia
There's a lot of Bs.
april
And—[laughs].
julia
I like alliteration, to [inaudible].
april
Oh, yeah, yeah! Yeah, yeah, yeah! [Julia laughs.] And along the way she also started cohosting a Simpsons podcast, which has gone through multiple iterations and titles, with Allie Goertz. And has written an episode of The Simpsons for its Treehouse of Horror series.
julia
Yeah.
april
So she will be credited as Ghoulia Prescott. (Julia + Ghoul.)
julia
[Laughs.] The part I was born to play, baby! [Laughs.]
april
Oh, what a dream come true.
julia
What a dream come true.
april
Julia, the movie that you chose to talk about today is Addams Family Values. Can you give us a little explanation of why this is one of your fave genre films?
julia
Well, I feel like—I've been thinking a lot about comedies in the nineties lately. Because you know, I write comedy, and I'm also just starting to dip my toe into feature writing. I've been primarily just TV and only TV, and frankly the thought of writing a feature scared the hell outta me for years and years.
april
And also Addams Family Values, because it is—it's got horror...
julia
Yeah!
april
...sensibilities to it, it's a toe-dip into genre as well.
julia
Yeah! And I really, really like genre, I feel like. You know, I made a Western, and some of my student films in both high school and college were—I think I made like a film noir, and was like really into—sort of why I started with cinematography, I was really into black and white cinematography. Ed Wood was one of my favorite movies; it really inspired me. And I wanna say also my like, "thesis film," quote-unquote, at the end of high school was an adaptation of a Twilight Zone episode, [laughs] so I was very much into genre very early on. And I've been thinking a lot about the kind of movies that have inspired me that I want to emulate in my own work, and also thinking about the difference in what, you know, feature comedies are now vs. what they were when I was growing up.
april
Mm.
julia
And so Addams Family Values was firmly in that timeline of me, you know, starting to understand—starting to pick out the movies and the TV shows that I wanted to watch vs. what my parents put on. Even though they had good taste, too.
april
Mm-hm.
julia
But you know, sort of that autonomy that led me to these sort of North Stars. And also I will say, connecting back to my parents, the reason why Addams Family Values was around and was so prominent in my childhood—speaking of my Hollywood parents, they came here and they had other friends that were doing similar things, acting and writing and all that stuff. My mom had a friend who had a bit part in this movie.
april
Mm!
julia
And she plays Dementia at the end.
april
[Gasps.] Dementia!
julia
Everyone's favorite. And you know, so great, she had like I wanna say one or two lines, and made such an impact. And so that's why my mom bought the VHS, but then I benefitted because every time I was sick from school I would watch, you know, [laughing] either this or Wayne's World 2 on VHS. [April laughs.] And I would—only sequels. I only watched sequels growing up. [Laughs.] Yeah.
april
[Laughs.] It's like—like only listening to Weird Al's music—
julia
Yeah! [Laughs.]
april
—and never hearing the original! I mean, if you're only gonna watch sequels, this is the one to start with.
julia
Yeah.
april
For those of you who haven't seen Addams Family Values, today's episode obviously will give you some spoilers. But that shouldn't stop you from listening before you watch. As always, my motto is that it's not what happens but how it happens that makes a movie worth watching. Still, if you would like to pause and watch Addams Family Values first, this is your shot.
music
"It's An Addams!" from Addams Family Values Original Motion Picture Soundtrack By Marc Shaiman. Energetic and relentless. Song plays quietly as April speaks.
april
Now that you're back, let me introduce Addams Family Values! Written by Paul Rudnick and directed by Barry Sonnenfeld, Addams Family Values stars Anjelica Huston and Raúl Juliá as Morticia and Gomez Addams. They have a baby named Pubert, [stifles laughter] and Wednesday and Pugsley Addams attempt and fail to kill it. So they hire a nanny, Debbie Jellinsky, played by Joan Cusack. [Music stops.]
clip
Debbie: I can show you all my references so you know I'm not a homicidal maniac. [Laughs.] Morticia: Course you're not. Gomez: You're too young!
april
Debbie seduces Uncle Fester, and to keep the meddling kids from uncovering her plan to marry Fester, kill him, and take his money, she convinces Gomez and Morticia to send the kids to Camp Chippewa, where a mean girl—Amanda Buckman—is determined to torture the outcasts.
clip
Amanda: I'm Amanda Buckman. Why are you dressed like that? Wednesday: Like what? Amanda: [Scoffingly] Like you're going to a funeral. Why are you dressed like somebody died? Wednesday: Wait.
april
But they also meet bookworm Joel, who falls for Wednesday. Meanwhile, Debbie and Fester get engaged and meet each other's families, giving her a glimpse at her horrifying new in-laws who terrify her to no end. Debbie tries to kill Fester with a boombox in the bathtub on their wedding night, but it doesn't work. So she forces him to sever ties with his family and move into a new house with her.
clip
Music: Tense yet upbeat music. Debbie: [Pleasantly] After we've made love, you can never see your family again. Fester: ...What?! Debbie: Otherwise I could never really... enjoy myself. I could never... give myself completely.
april
Pubert turns into a blue-eyed golden-haired baby, a disease—
clip
Music: Dire and dramatic. Granny: Stay back! He's very sick!
april
—from a stressed home life, they're told. Gomez is depressed. At camp, Wednesday and Pugsley are subjected to hours of Disney movies until they agree to participate in a Thanksgiving Day play. They agree to participate, but it's a ruse to capture their enemies, set the camp ablaze, and escape in a van.
clip
Music: Steady drum beat, gradually intensifying. Wednesday: The gods of my tribe have spoken! They have said "Do not trust the pilgrims! Especially... Sarah Miller." [Audience members gasp.] Amanda: Gary, she's changing the words! Wednesday: And for all these reasons, I've decided to scalp you. And burn your village to the ground.
april
Debbie, meanwhile, blows up the house. But Fester just won't die. So she holds him at gunpoint and admits her sinister plan: that she didn't really love him.
clip
Debbie: Look at yourself! You're a nightmare! You're the missing link! You shouldn't be married, you should be studied! You're a big, dumb, weird thing! No woman in her right mind could love you!
april
Thing, however, comes up and helps Fester. And then the whole family is reunited back at the Addams house—before Debbie finds them, ties them to electric chairs, and reveals her sordid history as a black widow.
clip
Debbie: [Overwrought] So I—I killed. So I maimed! So I destroyed one innocent life after another! [Gasping for breath intermittently] Aren't I a human being?! Don't I yearn and ache, and shop?
april
Upstairs, baby Pubert escapes and thwarts Debbie's plans by switching up the wires, electrocuting Debbie to a pile of ashes. Months later, Fester gets smitten with Cousin Itt's nanny, Dementia.
julia
Mm-hm!
april
And Wednesday tells new boyfriend Joel she wouldn't fail like Debbie if she were trying to kill her husband. [Julia laughs quietly.] She would just scare her husband to death. Joel lays flowers on Debbie's grave, and a hand—presumably Thing—shoots up to grab him. He screams, she laughs. A lovely match.
julia
I love it. Oh my god. I mean, what more is there to say? [Laughs.]
april
There's a lot. So—[laughs]. Paul Rudnick, this was his first solo writing credit. And he had actually done some script doctoring on the original Addams Family.
julia
Mm-hm.
april
And so you can see his mark on that. So it felt like a natural thing for him to kind of step in after he had worked with Scott Rudin on Sister Act. But you know, this was his first one that kind of launched him as just like "Okay, this is a name." Right?
julia
Yeah, yeah!
april
And he was kind of riding on this wave of the first film's success, because it was a really big success. No one really knew what was gonna happen with it, but it did really well at the box office. So that meant that Paramount gave them a lot of free room. He said, quote: "This first film had done so well, so the studio was eager for a sequel. And because Scott managed to reunite that amazing cast and Barry Sonnenfeld, who was the terrific director. I was brought on board too, but I think we were allowed to get away with a lot more because of that first movie had been so successful. The reigns were very loose." So—
julia
And it shows, I wanna say!
april
It does. I mean, there's something that—like, for instance—and you know, this is another note that I had. It is a... a movie that has a—[stifles laughter] two musical numbers in it that are Thanksgiving-themed. And it is strange in that it is very clearly set in a summer camp. But they're doing Thanksgiving musicals. And one of the reasons why they were able to do that is, um... they wanted something dumb, and they made it work. [Both laugh heartily.]
julia
That is the best!
april
Here's a quote:
julia
What a great lesson.
april
"No one has ever questioned why they're doing a Thanksgiving play in the middle of the summer, but it's earned its keep." [Laughs.] And this is Rudnick. "Everyone involved in the film was a big fan of musical numbers, and there'd been a terrific number in the first one. I wrote the lyrics, and Marc Shaiman—the wonderful composer of Catch Me If You Can and Hairspray—wrote the music. We couldn't resist having a number, and somehow—somehow—we wanted children dressed as turkeys and pumpkin pie."
julia
[Laughs.] Yeah! I mean, for me, that is such an argument of "Don't overthink it." And just like, you know—again taking a creative swing and saying "Okay, we—this is already tonally such a weird, specific movie." And it fits within that!
april
Yeah!
julia
Because I feel like the world that we inhabit in this movie is already so bonkers that, you know, I didn't question it when I saw it. And now I think by multiple accounts, [laughing] it is considered one of the greatest Thanksgiving movies of all time.
april
Yeah!
julia
People watch it.
april
It's a summer movie that's a Thanksgiving movie as well.
julia
Yeah! And I know that it also got released around Thanksgiving, so maybe that played a part into it as well. I'm not sure.
april
And like, probably the studio being like "Sure!" [Laughs.]
julia
Yeah, yeah! Yeahhh, they like, checked their schedule very quickly and said "Yeah, alright. You're a genius." [Laughs.]
april
"Uhhhh, actually, yeah! We don't have a lot of Thanksgiving movies. Oh, good!"
julia
"Ohhh, yeah!" I mean, what other Thanksgiving is there? Son in Law? [Both laugh.]
april
There's, uh... oh, man. There's a few. We actually did a Who Shot Ya? episode with Thanksgiving movies and it really jogged my brain, and I forgot all of 'em!
julia
Did you do What's Cooking?
april
Didn't do What's Cooking? What's the one, Pieces of April?
julia
Oh, I haven't seen that one.
april
I have, obviously. [Both laugh.]
julia
We shan't talk about it. It'll be a lopsided conversation. [Both laugh.]
april
But I would love to maybe talk just for a second about the kind of setting up of these big swings, and making them work. Because that's—you know. A lot of what this movie is is saying "We wanted this weird thing, and we're gonna work real hard to fucking get it."
julia
Yeah! And it's, I think—this movie also makes me think, if we're talking about the specificity of nineties comedies, the Brady Bunch movies to me really made an impact when I watched them as a kid. And then later as an adult I was so happy to see that they held up. And especially watching it as an adult and thinking back like "How did they get away with it?" I think especially now, people are so precious with their IP. And you find that everything is, you know, handled with kid gloves. I work a lot in kids' animation, and I've worked on multiple projects that have come from these sort of legacy IPs where they're even more protective of it.
april
Mm-hm. Yeah.
julia
And you know, I have worked on them, and then I hear the arguments people have or criticisms of Star Wars, and I'm just like "It's so hard to make a thing!" [Laughs.] You know, when you have so many people looming over your shoulder! And I feel like that's the culture now, but back then it's sort of mystifying that they were able to take this legacy IP and make it as weird as they wanted, and have that long a leash. I know that this is a sequel, so you're, you know, riding on the success, and you're just naturally going to get a longer leash because what worked in the first one, you know, they think is going to work in the second by some degree. But it's just bizarre to me to sort of look back and go "Why don't we still have that now?"
april
Mm-hm.
julia
Why can't we just sort of hand the reigns to creatives and let them do what they wanna do? Is it because, you know, entertainment is run by two companies right now? [Stifling laughter] I'm not sure.
april
Gosh, Julia, I don't know! [Julia laughs.] Maybe it is!
julia
[Laughing] We're asking the big questions, I'm sorry. Coming in hot!
april
Maaaybe it is! I do wanna talk about quickly, first, the PG-13 rating of this movie. Because—[laughs] there is the joke. Right in the beginning. "Everyone knows that when you have a new baby, one of the other children has to die." And then you have Wednesday and Pugsley trying to kill this child.
julia
Yeah!
april
And that—you just start the movie out like that. And Rudnick had said that there weren't any cuts to make it PG-13 that he could remember.
julia
Amazing.
april
It was just like—this is what it was, and it was PG-13, and he said: "I remember there was one moment on set where Barry called his wife gleefully and said 'Guess what? Today I threw a baby off a roof!' So once that proved normal, there were very few boundaries."
julia
Yeah. I think I read maybe the same quote, but just like, "We were bouncing babies off the rooftop, [stifles laughter] and we were doing all this stuff!" I think that it being the Addams Family definitely, you know, accounts for getting away with it. Because, you know, by definition they're crazy and they're kooky! [Both laugh.] So you can't really, you know, form a big argument! They have to deliver on that promise! But I think that, you know, also that leash really becomes apparent in these kids' scenes. I can see so many people at studios, executives, just wringing their hands over "You gotta cut that, you gotta cut that." I worked on an Amazon show once—
april
Yeah?
julia
—and I learned for the first time, you know, how powerful "mom comments" on Amazon are.
april
Whew! Okay!
julia
[Laughs.] And so that was its own sort of realm and you know, another thing of how this is very much indicative of its time and place, that it was able to have these scenes, that it was able to have like a very big plotline outta the gate of murder of their own innocent baby sibling! [Laughs.]
april
Yes!
julia
And we're all laughing!
april
Yeah!
julia
I was laughing. [Laughs.]
april
Well you know, I mean, it says something about like if you are going to do something wild, you gotta set it up immediately.
julia
Mm-hm.
april
And then people are like "Well, I guess this is the world that we live in."
julia
Yeah, and it served a purpose! Because it fed into the greater plot, which was getting Debbie to come in and be the nanny.
april
Yeah!
julia
That they are—even though their parents seem to be delighted by their antics, you know, they are a problem.
april
Yeah.
julia
You know, it's three children running around a lot of windows.
april
Yeah! [Both laugh.]
music
"Switchblade Comb" starts fading in.
april
On that, we're gonna take a break. We're gonna come right back—
julia
Great.
april
—and we're gonna get into some of those production design details, and also some anecdotes from some of these actors and how they were preparing for these very strange roles. We'll be right back. [Music continues at full volume until the promo.]
april
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music
"Switchblade Comb" plays again and then fades back out before the next promo.
promo
Music: Upbeat, cheerful music plays in the background. Allie Goertz: Hi, I'm Allie Goertz! Julia Prescott: And I'm Julia Prescott. And we host— Both: —Round Springfield! Julia: Round Springfield is a new Simpsons podcast that is Simpsons-adjacent— Allie: Mm-hm. Julia: —um, in its topic. We talk to Simpsons writers, directors, voiceover actors, you name it, about non-Simpsons things that they've done. Because, surprise! They're all extremely talented. Allie: Absolutely. For example, David X. Cohen worked on The Simpsons, but then created a little show called Futurama! Julia: Mm-hm! Allie: That's our very first episode. Julia: Yeah! Allie: So tune in for stuff like that with Yeardley Smith, with Tim Long, with different writers and voice actors. It's gonna be so much fun, and we are every other week on MaximumFun.org or wherever you get your podcasts! [Music fades out.]
music
"Switchblade Comb" fades back in and drops to play quietly as April speaks.
april
Welcome back to Switchblade Sisters! I'm April Wolfe, and I'm joined today by Julia Prescott, and we're talking about Addams Family Values.
julia
Yeahhh. [Music fades out.]
april
So as promised, let me talk about some production design characteristics with you, because as you mentioned, they were amazing.
julia
Mm-hm!
april
Ken Adam is the production designer on this. He was actually nominated for I think, uh, an Oscar?
julia
Cool!
april
For this. A lot of people probably know him more from his work on early James Bond films, actually.
julia
Oh, yeah.
april
He's worked—he had worked in the business for forever. But he said, quote: "I said that I couldn't do much better than to try and bring the Addams cartoons to life, because I think this man was a genius." Talking about Charles Addams. "I made quite sure that I would go back to the Addams cartoons with a touch of Ken Adam thrown in. You see that in the small gallery running on top of Gomez's study, the bed in Wednesday's bedroom, the kitchen, the attic, the wallpaper, the out-of-plumb walls. I think in every room in the house, there are elements of Charles Addams. In Pubert's nursery, however, there was no Addams prototype. So I tried to go back to the Charles Addams style of drawing certain animals. Grotesque ones, to be sure."
julia
Mm-hm.
april
So he was really looking at kind of making the house cartoonish.
julia
Yeah! And that's felt, but it also feels inhabited in a way that is kind of grounded in its own bizarre way. Again, like, you enter this world and it is coming at you so bright and confident. And I as a viewer just immediately accept it, and so I feel like the Addams Family house and the Addams Family just in like how they look at the world, is where we are grounded?
april
Yes.
julia
And everything else is an extension of that.
april
Yeah.
julia
So it's—that's I think also why I didn't bat an eye when the kids were trying to bounce the baby off the roof. Because it felt like we were in a cartoony world, and there was like no consequence to what their actions were gonna be.
april
Well, I mean, since we're talking about cartoons, and you work a lot in animation... you know, I mean, there is a freedom to animation.
julia
Yeah! Absolutely!
april
In a way that there's not a freedom to, you know, live action work.
julia
Mm-hm, yeah! And it's not just—I have this argument with people all the time, where I think the outsider perspective of animation writing specifically is like "Well, you have all the freedom because you can make a dinosaur talk." And it's like—yeah, sure, but I think that not a lot of people are considering how you could make a character endearing despite doing terrible things. You know, if we're talking about The Simpsons, Homer is a character that if it were a live action show, we would hate him.
april
Mm-hm.
julia
And you know, it would be like what I imagine that Kevin James riffing show that's about to come out—Kevin Can Go Fuck Himself, if you've heard about it?
april
Oh, yeah, yeah!
julia
It would be sort of that version, where he is, you know, someone we despise that we wanna take down. But because I think it is within the world of animation, we not only suspend our disbelief in a way where we don't think that, you know, direct terrible consequences are gonna come from their actions, but there is just something generally endearing about watching a drawn character go about their day, [chuckles] and go about a plot, so that you kind of have your sympathies already aligned with them.
april
Yeah! And I—you know, I think that also—I mean, if we're talking about—let's talk about adapting something that is drawn or animated for live action in the same way that this is. It is hard to get that right, and to get that tone and to feel like there's a cartoonishness to it that gives you that suspension of disbelief, and suspension of morality.
julia
Yeah.
april
Unless you have the budget, and the means.
julia
Yes.
april
Because otherwise if it looks too real, it's just—you're—it's not gonna fly. You're still gonna have that thing where you just—you're not into the character.
julia
Yeah—!
april
Like, it's just not okay.
julia
That makes me think of, um—[laughs]. It's the first time I've thought about this in a long time, but if you recall, I think it was like in the early 2000s they were doing the Munsters reboot.
april
Yeah!
julia
And it was like Jerry O'Connell and a bunch of other people, and it was like, this really bizarre, photorealistic in the way of—like, the design of the house and the design of their makeup. And it was shot very flat, kind of like the WB shows of that time.
april
Mm-hm.
julia
The O.C., etc. And you know, I think there's a reason why I think only the pilot came out and then it was quickly axed, because it just didn't have that same magic as the original.
april
Mm-hm.
julia
And it didn't have... maybe it did have the budget, maybe it didn't. I—they didn't channel it in the way that I think the people that did Addams Family did. And didn't have that mind of "Well, we need to have this balance of cartoony and real." And you know, not just like, make it this cookie cutter primetime show on WB.
april
So I do wanna get into Joan Cusack and villains.
julia
Yes.
april
Producer David Nicksay said "Joan Cusack brings a kind of unpredictability to the role that is wonderful. What's very important in a movie like this is that the movie be great. And like Batman had a great villain in Jack Nicholson as The Joker, Joan Cusack adds that same kind of energy to the story." [April responds affirmatively mutiple times as Julia speaks.]
julia
Absolutely! Absolutely. I'm—I never made that sort of connection, 'cause again that was a movie that came out sort of around the same time, but I just—I knew her from this and I also had seen her in Toys, I wanna say, [laughs] and like a bunch of other roles, and had already recognized her I think. As a child watching this movie she was very appealing to me 'cause she does have a quality that I think—it's so larger than life that I think is—is very... it can resonate with a child viewer very well. But I also felt like, you know, I read somewhere in research for this that the difference between the Addams family and specifically Fester and his energy of being this sort of like, unhinged, monstrous energy, but in a very positive way, he's sort of like chaotic good. [Both laugh.] And she is chaotic evil.
april
Yeah!
julia
And it's just really interesting to see, you know—the Addams family in the previous film, it was this sort of one-joke run of them being the oddballs out. In that there's nobody weirder than the Addams family, and everybody else is sort of the straight man for it.
april
Yeah, they will top you, yes.
julia
Yeah! And then to introduce this character who is not that. She is crazy in her own way. And there's a timeline—there's like a Sliding Doors parallel reality where I can see her getting along so well with the Addamses! [Laughs.] Like, there are so many similarities! And you even hear it from Morticia when she says she like, respects her hustle, basically, [laughs] for trying to kill—
crosstalk
April: Yeah, in the end! When she's just like, compassionate, and she's just like, "Ohhh! You—" Julia: She's like "Oh..." And I just love Anjelica Huston in that moment.
april
"You did have to kill them."
julia
Yeah.
april
"I—I understand." You know? [Julia laughs.] Like, she just like—she... yeah. She should have been playing by the Addams family rules, you know?
julia
Right, right! Yeah! And—but that also gives way to some really, really great jokes. There's a lot of really great one-liners in this movie that I feel like definitely makes it stand out, you know, a step above the previous movie. Where they visit Debbie and Fester in their new suburban home, and Morticia has like this whole run of lines—
sound effect
[Whoosh.]
clip
Morticia: You have married Fester. You have destroyed his spirit. You have taken him from us. All that I could forgive. But Debbie... Debbie: What?! Morticia: [Dismayed] Pastels? Music: Deep, dramatic musical sting. Debbie: Get out of my house!
sound effect
[Whoosh.]
april
[Laughs.]
julia
You know, when you get that moment from her, it's so great! Again, just sort of making us think, like, in a perfect world they would really get along if she just didn't have this plan in motion and wanted to win.
april
Yeah! Yeah. She just—you just have to do it as a family. You know?
julia
Yeah!
april
You can't do it rogue! You need to do it together.
julia
I know. I mean, and then, in the way we're talking about it now, it makes me think of Avengers. It is truly the Avengers of the nineties. [Both laugh.] Of—you have to work together! You can't separate, or else trouble will happen. I haven't seen many of the Avengers movies, I'm just—
crosstalk
April: So yeah! It's definitely—I'm gonna tell you— Julia: Definitely exactly. April: The—exactly the same as The Avengers. Julia: Wow! [Laughs.]
april
I should—this is—you know, we have kind of touched on this a little bit, but I think that it's necessary to say that the kind of premise for this movie, and the play on the title, Addams Family Values, was taken from Dan Quayle and the 1992 LA Riots. Because Dan Quayle's—blamed the unrest on the breakdown of "family values." ...Pretty racist, very classist.
julia
[Laughs.] Yeah.
april
All of those things. And so Debbie is a character with something that Rudnick was writing in, and Barry Sonnenfeld too was very interested in this, of exploring what family values are to certain people. And so Debbie is the kind of like this embodiment of those kind of conservative family values that you're talking about with Kathie Lee Gifford—
julia
Mm-hm.
april
—and this like, "This is America!" You know.
julia
Right, right. Yeah, and it's funny because—and maybe you read the same interview, too—they did—there was an anniversary for this movie. I wanna say maybe last year was like the 25th anniversary or something like that. And in that interview, I think Barry and David were both like "Yes, it was very political" and that was sort of the headline that went with that...
april
Yes.
julia
...interview with the whole cast.
april
Yeah.
julia
You know, of what they were trying to do with the Family Values title. But it was funny to read it, and to read from the cast, and especially people like Christina Ricci and the other kids that were in the movie, and their reaction being like "Was it political? ["I don't know" noise.]" Like—[laughs].
april
"No idea!"
julia
"I thought it was great!" And then yeah, I think Christina Ricci was like "Yeah, I remember thinking it was cool my role had been expanded. Anyway!" [Both laugh.] It was so funny to have that in the same... I wanna say Variety article of like, "Yes, we were on the forefront of making a statement." Which is another thing that I don't really think that broad comedies in the mainstream moment we're currently in have a mind to do, nonetheless get away with.
music
"Switchblade Comb" starts fading in.
april
No! No. We're gonna take a quick break. When we come back, we're gonna talk a little bit about character development from movie to movie. [Stifling laughter] And we're also gonna talk all about Michael Jackson.
julia
Yeah.
april
So gear up for that. And a couple other things, too. We'll be right back. [Music continues at full volume until the promo.]
promo
Music: Upbeat, cheerful music with clapping in the background. Jesse Thorn: Hey, gang! Jesse here, the founder of Maximum Fun, and with me is Stacey Molski, who is—among other things—the lady who responds to all of your Tweets. Stacey Molski: Hi everyone! I also send you newsletters. Jesse: Uh, so anyway. Something really awesome. You! MaxFun listeners have given us the chance to do something really cool on behalf of our entire community, and we wanted to tell you about it. Stacey: Last summer, following the MaxFun drive, we put all of the enamel pins on sale to $10 and up members, with proceeds going to the National CASA/GAL Association for Children. Jesse: Your generous support and enthusiasm raised over a hundred thousand dollars. Our bookkeeper, Steph, would be quick to tell me the exact total is $109,025, to be exact. Stacey: Your money will go toward pairing kids who've experienced abuse or neglect with court-appointed advocates or guardian ad litem volunteers. Jesse: In other words, kids in tough spots will have somebody in their corner. Knowledgeable grown-ups who are on their team through court dates and life upheavals and confusing situations, whatever. Stacey: The money we raised together is going to help a lot of kids. Jesse: Whether you bought pins or not, you can help us build on that $109,000 foundation. Make a donation to support National CASA/GAL, and help some of our nation's most vulnerable children, at MaximumFun.org/casa. That's MaximumFun.org/casa. Stacey: And seriously, thank you. Our community rules. [Music fades out.]
music
"Switchblade Comb" fades back in and drops to play quietly as April speaks.
april
Welcome back to Switchblade Sisters! I'm April Wolfe and I'm joined today by Julia Prescott.
julia
Hey!
april
And we're talking about Addams Family Values. [Music fades out.] Okay. I have a quote here from Barry Sonnenfeld, because he has—very, very thoughtful about character, which is something that I appreciate in a director. And it's also something I appreciate in cinematographer—
julia
Yeah!
april
—which was what he was doing, you know, before these movies. He said, quote: "The Addams are the ultimate functional family. The parents love the children. The mother and father love each other. They don't change their values based on a whim. They're a perfect family. It's an interesting thing making a sequel to The Addams Family, because there are certain characters who can change and grow and become different, and there are other characters who the audience does not want to see change. For instance, you wouldn't want to make a movie with Gomez and Morticia get a divorce. They have a perfect relationship. You wouldn't wanna see Wednesday be any more evil or deadpan, or Pugsley to be any more or less goofy. At the beginning of the movie, we find that Fester is very lonely. He realizes that everyone's very happy, the family has another baby, and Fester is lonely. He wants a mate. But Fester, he can change."
julia
Mm-hm!
april
So... I think it's a really smart thing that they did to not mess with these archetypes that they already created that were solid, and to not shake the foundation of people's trust, in a sense.
julia
Yeah! And I think that's so hard to do with a sequel.
april
Yes. [April continues responding affirmatively as Julia speaks.]
julia
Where, you know, you want to not just do a carbon copy of the first one. You want to progress it and expand the universe in some way that feels meaningful, and even though we as an audience are savvy enough to know that a lot of sequels are cash grabs—[laughs] there still needs to be a reason why we're revisiting, you know, this one world, and what further stories are being—are begged to be told. And I felt like choosing Fester—especially considering the first movie was an introduction to him—I felt like that sort of implied that his story's evolving in real time, and thus incomplete. And so to have him be kind of the main focus of change in this was so smart. And you know, I also thought that, you know, when you have kid characters, that I feel in lesser hands would be the target for this change. Because somebody would go "Oh, they're going through puberty!" And you know, Wednesday gets her first boyfriend! And I think in lesser hands, that would have been made into this big coming-of-age moment, but that's not the tone of what this world and what these movies are, and—
april
'Cause it doesn't change her.
julia
No! [Both laugh.] No!
april
And like, she's already set!
julia
She changes her boyfriend, we see by the end! He looks— [Both laugh.]
april
Exactly!
julia
—exactly like her father, which we shall unpack on another day. [Both laugh.]
april
Let's switch into some darker things: Michael Jackson!
julia
Yeah. That was a surprise in this latest viewing. I mean, I had—
april
There's more surprises, too.
julia
[Laughs.] I bet. It—and it's very brief, but it's very impactful when you see it.
april
We should explain, too.
julia
Mm-hm.
april
That the character of Joel, Dave Krumholtz, his character is kind of getting undressed in a room, and he looks over and there is a poster of Michael Jackson looking at him. And he's like "Ahhh!"
julia
Mm-hm.
april
And he screams, and he lets out like a shriek. So it's just like, it's baked into like, "We know the rumors."
julia
Right.
april
But the thing is that before they had started shooting, those were just like so, so under the radar rumors. They weren't... up yet. Like, this—the dentist had not accused Michael Jackson of molesting his son yet.
julia
Mm-hm.
april
And so it was just something that like, mm, was in the cultural consciousness, but people weren't taking like too seriously. They were like "Yeah, we all know, whatever." And then that joke is in there. And... here's the other layer of it: Michael Jackson had recorded a song for the movie. [Julia gasps.] He was supposed—you know how like Hammer did the first song?
julia
Yeah!
april
Michael Jackson actually did this song, and there is a video for it. There is a film, a short film, with a lot of well-known character actors. And it's available, you can watch it, 'cause it's mostly finished. The song isn't in there but the film itself is there.
julia
Wow.
april
And you can find it on YouTube. And—[stifles laughter] one of the reasons I think that they decided not to do it is because if you watch it, it is essentially a defense of him spending time alone with children. And the adults don't get it, and the adults think it's too weird and scary, but the children know that Michael is not scary. If you watch this, please, please... please—
julia
Oh my gosh.
april
I would love to hear what people think about this.
julia
Hooo.
april
But the song was called originally "Is It Scary." Sometimes people call it "Addams Groove Family Thing," but the title of this short film and what the song was supposed to be is "Is It Scary." It's very, uh, risqué for that, and I'm really glad that they dumped it.
julia
Right!
april
It would have been... insane to have that come out at the exact same time that there is, you know, like a very real case going on accusing him of some very terrible things. But it was an—essentially a defense of...
julia
Oh my god. I mean—[audibly shudders]. I—I'm sure we've all seen the Leaving Neverland documentary series by now.
april
Mm-hm.
julia
And just you describing that put me right back in the most terrible parts of that documentary, which is pretty much all of it. And you know, how a predator could re-frame things in a way, especially to innocent children, augh. It's just like—it's so gnarly. I can't even—and I'm—yeah.
april
Yeah. But it was a coincidence that they had the Michael Jackson poster playing a gag in this movie and that he was doing his song.
julia
Was it? Yeah.
april
Because those were decisions made in two separate places.
julia
Right, right, right! Yeah, because it's such a machine, especially from such a big studio—
april
Yep!
julia
—that like, they're just look—the marketing department is completely separate from the screenwriters and the people actually making the film.
april
No, absolutely.
julia
Thank god! Because I mean, I—I'm not sure what it would have done to the legacy of this film, but it would have been definitely a stain in a way that, you know, it—I think it just—it—I'm—[laughs] it's alright that it's not part of it.
april
Um, switching gears out of Michael...
julia
Yes.
april
The characters who didn't seem to be huge in this movie, Sonnenfeld was still extremely specific with how and who he wanted to be in this movie. The level of detail that he had was... just, I think, incredible. For instance, Thing.
julia
Yeah.
april
That was Christopher Hart playing that. I mean, it's a hand, but he's playing it!
julia
Mm-hm!
april
He said, quote, "Thing had to have his own weight as a character. So I had to make sure that my wrist was at a certain angle over my hand so that when my body was taking off, it would look correct. And of course I had to consider the performance aspects, what his personality was like and how he moved. I see Thing as a lovable little character. He's like a little puppy dog, in that he likes to play practical jokes. He's a kid at heart, but he's also obviously very intelligent, and cares about his family. He's willing to put his life on the—in the line and put himself in danger to save them."
julia
Absolutely comes across. I just remember there's a really great sequence in the beginning of the movie where you see—and—so most of this movie is practical effects, and I was really impressed in rewatching it now of how well the special effects for Thing look.
april
Mm-hm.
julia
And you know, how well it's aged. But there's a whole sequence of hopping on a skateboard and sort of like almost a Rube Goldberg–type sequence of going through the house, which is also a really great introduction to the house. But you sense that exact personality through Thing, and I remember even as a child being like "Oh, that's my friend! I'm happy he's here."
april
Yeah, you don't think of it as a hand.
julia
No!
april
You think of it as a character.
julia
Mm-hm!
april
It's always a character. Which I found delightful to know that this actor really took this quite seriously, and that he and Sonnenfeld—that scene in particular, the skateboarding scene—they rehearsed it quite a bit.
julia
I bet!
april
To get the right emotion and the right action, and like—it seems silly. It does. But if it's a character, then it's gonna be a character!
julia
But that's the best part. I mean if we're talking about why we do this, the best days that I have working in this town is when I go "This is the silliest, stupidest thing. I can't believe it's coming to life."
april
Mm-hm.
julia
"And we get to do it. Here we go." Like when I am talking very seriously about a very stupid subject, but it is what we are writing about, what we are making... those are the best days in working. [Both laugh.] 'Cause it's like, I went to college! You know, like— [Both laugh.]
april
Yep!
julia
Here we are! My grandparents did something noble— [April laughs.] —and I'm here talking about, you know, how big the necklace on a horse who is a love interest of one of my characters in the Western should be. [Stifles laughter.] You know? It's—those are the best days for me, and you get it especially a lot in animation of course.
april
Yeah!
julia
Yeah.
april
I mean, take being silly seriously.
julia
Oh my god, it's my favorite. Dumb things are the best. [Laughs.]
april
Julia! What do you have to plug? What's coming up for you?
julia
Well, I have a Simpsons-themed podcast called Round Springfield, so as you mentioned up top, this is a podcast that my co-host Allie Goertz and I have done for a little while, and previously it was called Everything's Coming Up Simpsons, where we would interview people about their favorite Simpsons episode. We have since restructured our premise, and now it is called Round Springfield. We are interviewing people that have worked on The Simpsons whether as a writer, a director, showrunner, voiceover actor—we had a great episode with Yeardley Smith—and we talk to them about non-Simpsons things! Shows that they've written on, pilots that have failed... you know, Yeardley talked about growing up in the theatre and what that was like, so you know, it's a series—if you like The Simpsons of course that will naturally filter in, but it is us profiling the brilliant people that make the greatest show on the planet.
april
Mm-hm.
julia
And all the other amazing things that they do. It is a 20-episode season that is releasing right now. You can listen to our episode with David X. Cohen talking about Futurama and all other fun things now. So that's on Maximum Fun, and if you're in the LA area, I host a monthly show called the JP lecture series. [Confidentially] Based off my initials. [April laughs, Julia stifles laughter.] And it's at the Lyric Hyperion, and it's a show where I curate a panel of industry professionals about many different topics, but they all kind of circulate around breaking into the industry. So we'll have shows that are titled "How Do You Get A Manager?" or "How Do You Get A Pitch Meeting?" and I'll have a panel of people that are on both sides of the table—so development execs and show creators—and then I also do fun ones where it'll be "Inside the Writers' Room of: Fill in the blank," so we've done "Inside the Writers' Room of Brooklyn Nine-Nine," we've done Rick and Morty, I had a panel with Simpsons showrunners. And so you can catch that at the Lyric once a month. It's usually the third Saturday, but check on their schedule and check on my Twitter, 'cause sometimes it may change. And it's always a good time, people bring notebooks, they take copious notes, and it kind of feels like, you know, comedy grad school in a way.
april
Yeah!
julia
Though we do talk about dramas, too! I'm just a comedy gal, so that's sort of where I'm gonna go.
april
And then people can also watch Townies on their phone.
julia
They can watch Townies on their phone! If you can download the Black Pills app, you can watch Townies. Hopefully more people get to see it, 'cause I'm really proud of what we made.
april
And we'll just kind of keep an eye out for something from Disney from you.
julia
Yeahhh! [Stifles laughter.] In like three years, 'cause animation takes a looong time!
april
Three years later, okay!
julia
Oh, and then I mean, well, speaking of animation, I—you can catch the Treehouse of Horror episode I wrote. [Laughs.] [April gasps.]
crosstalk
Julia: Later this year! April: Speaking of animation! Julia: So that'll be the first one that comes out.
april
Awww, thank you so much, Julia, for joining us.
julia
Thank you! This has been such a treat.
music
"Switchblade Comb" starts fading in.
april
And thank you all for listening to Switchblade Sisters. If you like what you're hearing, please leave us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts. "Oh He's Just Joking, Right?" said "For the last two weeks I've been telling my friends again and again about the movie Ravenous, and suddenly Ravenous episode drops on Switchblade Sisters. I'm envious of anybody who learned about that movie by listening to that episode. This is a really informative and very entertaining podcast. April Wolfe is a great interviewer while themselves being very engaging, and their enthusiasm is infectious. Also, go check out Who Shot Ya? podcast for which Wolfe used to serve as a regular host." That's true! I was a regular panel co-host on that. If you wanna let us know what you think of the show, you can Tweet at us at @SwitchbladePod, or email us at switchbladesisters@maximumfun.org. And please check out our Facebook group, that's Facebook.com/groups/switchbladesisters. Our producer is Casey O'Brien, our senior producer is Laura Swisher, and this is a production of MaximumFun.org. [Music finishes.]
clip
Debbie: You're a big, dumb, weird thing!
music
A cheerful guitar chord.
speaker 2
Comedy and culture.
speaker 3
Artist owned—
speaker 4
—audience supported.
About the show
Switchblade Sisters is a podcast providing deep cuts on genre flicks from a female perspective. Every week, screenwriter and former film critic April Wolfe sits down with a phenomenal female film-maker to slice-and-dice a classic genre movie – horror, exploitation, sci-fi and many others! Along the way, they cover craft, the state of the industry, how films get made, and more. Mothers, lock up your sons, the Switchblade Sisters are coming!
Follow @SwitchbladePod on Twitter and join the Switchblade Sisters Facebook group. Email them at switchbladesisters@maximumfun.org.
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