TRANSCRIPT One Bad Mother Episode 425: Stay At Home, Dad! No, Really, Cause It’s Great. with Shannon Carpenter

00:00:00

Biz Ellis

Host

Hi. I’m Biz.

00:00:01

Theresa Thorn

Host

And I’m Theresa.

00:00:02

Biz

Host

Due to the pandemic, we bring you One Bad Mother straight from our homes—including such interruptions as: children! Animal noises! And more! So let’s all get a little closer while we have to be so far apart. And remember—we are doing a good job.

00:00:20

Music

Music

“Summon the Rawk” by Kevin MacLeod. Driving electric guitar and heavy drums.

[Continues through dialogue.]

00:00:24

Biz

Host

This week on One Bad Mother—stay at home, Dad! No, really! ‘Cause it’s great. We talk about the power of community when it comes to supporting fathers with Shannon Carpenter. Plus, Biz was sick with guilt.

00:00:39

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz and caller: [Very short] Woo! Woo!

00:00:41

Caller

Caller

Well, I think this is just a check-in. ‘Cause it honestly could be a genius, a fail, and a rant all in one. I have a four-week-old son and a two-year-old daughter and I am just… worn. Out. ‘Cause every morning unless my dad can help, I am responsible for getting both of the kids ready to be out of the door so that I can take my daughter to daycare. And that is not ideal with a four-week-old who hates his car seat and cries for, I don’t know, the last ten minutes of the twenty-minute drive every time we make it. And there’s just nothing that I can do about it. To top it off, I don’t know what has happened to my breastmilk production, but it has just rapidly declined, which is devastating because I can’t tell if my son is hungry or not yet even though it sounds like he’s swallowing. And then to top it off, this morning I needed to get gas. Got to Costco. Realized I didn’t actually have my wallet, just my car keys. But the genius is I kept my cool and checked my phone and remembered they have contactless payment and I have my credit card in my Apple Wallet, and I was ablet to get gas just by tapping my phone against the machine. I don’t know. And it made me feel really good about this really crummy night, morning, and I’m gonna make it. You guys are doing a great job. Thank you so much for the show.

[Biz laughs.] 

00:02:25

Biz

Host

Ohhhh! Wow! First of all, you’re doing a remarkable job! Wow! We could just take that apart at any point in your story. Four weeks old? Did you say you have a four-week-old? [Laughs.] Jesus! I’m sorry. I will send cookies and wine if I can. Wow. Like I said, you’re doing a great job. And one of the great things about your check-in is like… this is what I mean, everybody. When I say, “What do you think the other person’s day might be like?” [Laughs.] When we walk out into the world. We have all had this day. You are not alone. There is no question I have been in this situation with a under-one-year-old, a preschooler, trying to get ‘em to school. Screaming in the car. Not bringing my purse. Going to the store. Walking out with milk in the stroller in the bottom like a—just stealing milk. Just stealing milk ‘cause I’m not thinking about it. All of that. So tired. So broken. And like… you are the person I [through laughter] assume when I get to the store and I get really mad that somebody left their grocery cart in the parking space. And then I think, “Unless it’s—for example—this beautiful person that I’ve just spoken to on the show. You leave that cart, honey. Today, I’ve got you. Today I have you.” When somebody just lets the door shut in your face or cuts you off in traffic or is just doing something incredibly frustrating, let’s remember that this was probably their day. And just remind them that you got their back. I got your back! You’re doing— [through laughter] you’re doing so good! That’s just too much! It’s too much! Speaking of too much, it’s time… for something we can never have too much of! Gabe always looks at me like, “How is Biz gonna segue this? What’s coming next? What’s coming out of Biz’s mouth?” It’s time for thank-you’s!

00:04:24

Music

Music

Heavy electric guitar and driving percussion overlaid with “Ohh, oh-oh, oh-oh” and “Hey-ey-ey-ey-ey-ey” lyrics.

00:04:38

Biz

Host

[Singing] Boo boo boo-boooo! [Regular voice] Okay. [Laughs.] I’m gonna start off and say thank you, Gabe! Guys? I am! I’m gonna start with thank you, Gabe. Gabe is just doing such a stellar and awesome job. And we are not the only show that Gabe has to do work with. Gabe has as lot of demands on him because he is so delightful and great. And every week when I get through interviewing our guest, I think, “Geez, that was a good guest! Good job, Gabe.” And however shitty the recordings are—[Laughs.] Given this pandemic—Gabe makes them sound wonderful. And Gabe gives me jazz hands every once in a while. So thank you, Gabe! Gabe? You know who else we need to thank? Doctors.

Geez Louise, people. I gotta tell ya—if you ever run into somebody who works in a hospital, in particular an ICU unit, they’re not gonna tell you great stories. They’re gonna tell you what a fucking nightmare things are right now. And that a majority of the people who were in there are unvaccinated. And it’s frustrating, because we are putting so much strain on all of the people who work in the medical industry. Not just doctors. Not just nurses. Not just RNs and EMTs. But just all the people that the medical community relies on to keep functioning. They’re. Just. Worn. Out. And we could make life easier with just a few simple steps. Wearing masks. Getting vaccinated. It’s a great way to support others. [Laughs.] Who can’t. Like little children. [Laughs.] Or immune-compromised people. I want you to know that I see you and that’s still not enough. But thank you. For everything that you’re doing.

Teachers? [Singing] Duh-duh, da-duh-da-duh! [Regular voice] I love you! [Laughs.] I just wanna cry. Guys? Make a little note. Just leave a little note on your teacher’s desk. Maybe make a little poster that says, “Yay! You’re doing a great job!” Slap it on a teacher’s door. Leave it on their car. Not in a weird, creepy way. But like, y’know, let’s—any little gesture to let them know that we see them and we know this was a crazy, weird time to be teaching. I think we should. They’re doing a great job. Thank you, teachers. 

I want to thank everybody who has gotten vaccinated, and I wanna thank all the people who volunteer or work for groups that provide vaccinations and testing. Testing is also a wonderful tool. Look around. Look for it. People are here. People like want to help you get tested. Get vaccinated. And stay safe. So… I had to go get a test this week and, y’know, that woman stuck that swab up my nose and swirled it a good fifteen seconds. You know what she deserved? A big thank-you. A big thank-you. [Laughs.] For this job that you’re doing. So thank you to everybody who’s involved in that. And you’re doing such a good job. 

00:08:01

Biz

Host

Everybody? I got sick this past week. This is what sucks about being sick nowadays. [Laughs.] Trying to get a test, which actually was not that big of a deal in Pasadena ‘cause a shit-ton of people are vaccinated. But I had to wait and get the test the next morning ‘cause I didn’t get sick ‘til the evening. And then I was just positive the entire time I’m trying to like just be sick and get rest and feel better. I am simultaneously sure that I have killed everybody in my house, as well as everyone I’ve come in contact with. Oh, wait! I don’t even know if I have COVID! But I’m still sending my children to school. Is that okay? Should I have done that? Should I have kept them home until I took tests and got results back? [Laughs.] Aaaah! Right? Do I want to spend the money on the rapid test? Should I go get a [inaudible]? I’m sure, like, until I got those test results? I was sure. I was sure I had just been patient zero for the entire shutdown of the elementary school. [Laughs.] I was so convinced! And I gotta tell ya, that sucks! That just sucks. Because like I’m already dealing with guilt and tired and blegh, everything. It was not COVID. It was probably just my body saying, “You’re good now! You’re done. Gonna just shut down for 48 hours. All you get to do is sleep. Sorry about that.” [Laughs.] And everybody’s got a cold right now. There’s a nasty little cold going around the school. So again, that’s disruptive. Yeah. I just wish that as people in the world, we didn’t have to have that additional layer of stress and anxiety on top of the stress and anxiety that being sick can cause in terms of disrupting our day-to-day life. So I’m just gonna add that to the list of super-suck. Check. You know what doesn’t suck, though, everybody? Dads. Dads don’t suck! Dads have never sucked on this show. And today, we are going to be talking to Shannon Carpenter, whose new book, The Ultimate Stay-At-Home Dad: Your Essential Manual For Being An Awesome Full-Time Father, is our guest. And it is a hilarious and very helpful book. So yay! 

00:10:32

Host

Banjo strums; cheerful banjo music continues through dialogue.

00:10:33

Host

Please—take a moment to remember: If you’re friends of the hosts of One Bad Mother, you should assume that when we talk about other moms, we’re talking about you.

00:10:40

Biz

Host

If you are married to the host of One Bad Mother, we definitely are talking about you.

00:10:44

Host

Nothing we say constitutes professional parenting advice.

00:10:47

Biz

Host

Biz and Theresa’s children are brilliant, lovely, and exceedingly extraordinary.

00:10:51

Host

Nothing said on this podcast about them implies otherwise.

[Banjo music fades out.] 

[Biz and Shannon repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss the weekly topic.]

00:10:58

Biz

Host

This week, we are talking to Shannon Carpenter, who has been a stay-at-home dad since 2008. He is also a humor writer trained through the famous Second City. He has done public readings on local NPR affiliate KCUR and teaching through At-Home Dad Network and the Dad 2.0 National Conference, which named him one of the funniest dads of 2019! The more broken you are, the funnier you are. Right? Anyway. [Laughs.] He has also given interviews about his experience to Forbes, The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, and others. Welcome, Shannon! 

00:11:37

Shannon

Host

Yay! I’m happy to be here! Hi, guys! I know! 

[Biz laughs.] 

I’m just gonna start strong. I’m gonna yell for myself and it’s gonna be fantastic. [Laughs.] 

00:11:44

Biz

Host

That’s—ya gotta yell for yourself. We all gotta yell for ourselves.

00:11:48

Shannon

Host

It’s the only way I can hear myself over the kids. So that’s what I do.

00:11:51

Biz

Host

[Through laughter] That’s right. That’s right. Preferably kind, because the kids are probably saying things that are unpleasant. Speaking of kids, who lives in your house?

00:11:58

Shannon

Host

Uh, there is me. There is my wife, Erin. There is my fifteen-year-old daughter, Vivvie, my fourteen-year-old son, Wyatt. My eight-year-old son, Oliver. My brand-new COVID dog—‘cause we got him during that—his name is Hans. After Hans Gruber from Die Hard, not from—not from the—

00:12:16

Biz

Host

Very good. He’s a Christmas—did you get him at Christmas?

00:12:18

Shannon

Host

No. But I love the movie.

[Both laugh.]

Everyone thinks Hans from Frozen. I’m like, “No, no, no. It’s Hans Gruber. Get it right.” And then our cat, Moony, which is named after Harry Potter. So there ya are. That’s my house.

00:12:29

Biz

Host

Okay. So one named after something in the world of quote-unquote “children’s literature,” and the other after the greatest Christmas movie of all time: Die Hard. Do you consider Die Hard a Christmas movie? Or are you in just Die Hard is a great movie.

00:12:45

Shannon

Host

No. So much Christmas movie that a couple years ago, I wood-burned Alan Rickman’s face [through laughter] on a giant Christmas ornament—

[Biz laughs.] 

—and that was the present I gave to my wife.

00:12:55

Biz

Host

Nice. I—that—the full support. Before the show started, you and I were saying to each other—you’ve been listening to the show and I’ve read the book and it’s good when you find your people. And I think you woodburning his face into a Christmas ornament for your wife definitely brings it home that we are of the same ilk. I think that’s really wonderful. I gotta stop and say you’ve got teens in your house.

00:13:21

Shannon

Host

I do! Yeah. It’s—it’s fun. 

00:13:23

Biz

Host

How’s—is it fun? Is it? [Laughs.] 

00:13:25

Shannon

Host

I’m legally required to say that. [Laughs.] 

00:13:28

Biz

Host

Oh. Fair enough. 

00:13:31

Shannon

Host

‘Cause my wife is going to listen to this. No, it’s—they’re great kids. They’re great kids and it’s its own challenges. We gotta deal with conversations that we haven’t had, and especially during the last several years or, y’know, with the COVID and everything else. They’re very aware. Which we get to learn together, which is really cool. I love doing that. And they’re pretty badass. But they’re also very surly. My daughter likes to make fun of me because I’m bald. I don’t know where that came from. I’m like, yeah, I realize I have no hair. I got it. [Laughs.] 

00:13:57

Biz

Host

It's probably developmental. I just blame everything on—

[Shannon laughs.] 

“It’s developmental.” I’m sure there’s a book somewhere out there. Okay. So—your book! The Ultimate Stay-at-Home Dad: Your Essential Manual For Being An Awesome Full-Time Father is a delight.

00:14:13

Shannon

Host

Thank you!

00:14:15

Biz

Host

It’s—it actually… y’know. I mean, well that’s gonna sound insulting. [Goofy voice] “It’s actually amazing how great it is!” 

[Shannon laughs.] 

Fuck yourself, Biz. You’ve arranged it in—like, it’s just a good book. Guys? It’s a good book on how to do parenting stuff when you’re new to parenting, regardless of mom/dad. But I will warn you, it is definitely humor-based for the dads. For the dads. If you are a sensitive mom—[Laughs.] 

[Shannon laughs.] 

Maybe not. But there are enough—we all know there are enough chat boards out there where men just get shredded. [Laughs.] So, y’know. Like, those, “Oh my god. My husband doesn’t put the toilet paper on the roll! Ahhh!” Right? Like—

[Shannon laughs.] 

If they ever said that about you, moms, you would be outraged. 

00:15:02

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Shannon: We don’t, by the way. Just FYI. [Laughs.] 

Biz: So talk to me—yeah. Don’t. 

00:15:05

Biz

Host

Talk to me about creating the book. What led you to it?

00:15:08

Shannon

Host

So—I got pissed off. So I can be—this—I can be honest, right? 

00:15:12

Biz

Host

That’s a fair answer.

00:15:14

Shannon

Host

Fuck it! I got mad! I got really mad. Because, y’know. I am a humor writer by nature, right? I cannot not tell a joke. It’s just what I do. And so—[sighs]. What happened here is… I had a book proposal out there and then one of the editors at Penguin read it. And he said, “I want you to add advice.” And he was like, “How much?” And I was like, “How much?” And he said, “All of it.” [Laughs.] I said, “Oh, you want a new book?” And he’s like, “Yeah.”

[Biz laughs.] 

And I was like, “Fuck it. That’s fine.” And I started reading what was out there. And I started getting so mad. 

00:15:47

Biz

Host

So mad? Yeah.

00:15:49

Shannon

Host

Yeah. It was such trash for dads. ‘Cause they pretend that the baby ends at, like, one years old. And it’s been scientifically proven that they live longer.

00:15:55

Biz

Host

Well, to be fair, that’s true for moms, too. There is a general stopping point where apparently you’re all set to go. [Laughs.] 

00:16:02

Shannon

Host

Yeah. Like, you know it. Don’t worry about it. 

00:16:05

Biz

Host

Yeah. I know you know it. Two? You got it! [Laughs.] 

00:16:09

Shannon

Host

Yeah. You’re a teenager. You don’t have to worry about that anymore. Y’know. The sex talk. It happens on its own. Y’know?

[Biz laughs.] 

So it was [inaudible] for dads! But it was—everything that was actually out there was not practical advice. It was all platitudes. Of, y’know, “just suck it up and make it and take it like a man.” And I’m like, “What does that mean? I’ve gotta cook dinner with a baby on my hip and a toddler trying to punch me in the junk and I don’t know what to do.” And that’s why I wrote the book. ‘Cause I got mad because there wasn’t any real advice for dads on how to actually be a dad. So that’s why I wrote it. 

00:16:39

Biz

Host

Well, ya nailed it. And I think—

00:16:40

Shannon

Host

Thank you.

00:16:41

Biz

Host

But I think as a parent, I certainly went through and still go through those moments of like, “Why can’t somebody just write a fucking book that doesn’t insult me, doesn’t assume I haven’t already thought about a thing.” Right? Like, y’know. And that is being realistic with what—I mean, we joke on this show all the time. Until our book, no one ever said somebody was gonna shit in the tub. Right? Like, that should have been—

00:17:10

Shannon

Host

Yeah! Like, that’s a thing!

00:17:11

Biz

Host

That should’ve been chapter one in any book. “Somebody’s gonna shit in your tub and then you’re probably gonna get in that tub later.” Right? Like, and not think twice about it. So—

00:17:19

Shannon

Host

Don’t make fun of me because of a colander in my bathroom. It’s there for a reason. [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

00:17:23

Biz

Host

That’s genius! That—oh my god! Why did I never think of a goddamn colander?! 

[Shannon laughs.] 

00:17:30

Shannon

Host

It’s fucking in there!

00:17:32

Biz

Host

Oh my god! Oh my god! I was always just like, “Ugh!” I made it way more complicated and you are a genius. It would be great if we could all say, “There can be one book that does that for everybody who’s a parent.” But you can’t. Because dads do have a different experience, and I say that because I think it’s based on years of bad assumptions, bad stereotypes in your role as a parent. As well as the general, like… “Man up.” The, “Are you a man?” Like, what does it mean to be a man? And like—[Laughs.] That puts you at a disadvantage. So you do need a book that says “your kid’s punching you in the balls.” Right? And you’re trying to cook dinner. I can make a cappuccino with like my feet. Right? Like, it’s—but no one’s—where is that? Right? Like—[Laughs.] 

00:18:27

Shannon

Host

Yeah! How do you protect your fallopian tubes when they’re coming at you? Right? Like, that’s a thing, right? [Laughs.] 

00:18:30

Biz

Host

Yeah! Exactly! 

00:18:32

Shannon

Host

No one teaches you that.

00:18:35

Biz

Host

So… I wanna actually ask—before we get into some of the smaller things, you have been involved in the world of parenting, focused on stay-at-home—being a stay-at-home father. Has there been change? Is it a different world now? Like, where have things gone right and where are things still not going right? 

00:18:59

Shannon

Host

Yeah, it’s improved. There’s more of us now. Which sounds threatening. “We grew! There’s more of us now!” [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

00:19:06

Biz

Host

“When you’re a Jet, you’re a Jet—” anyway. [Laughs.] 

00:19:09

Shannon

Host

I know! That’s exactly it! [Through laughter] So thirteen years ago, when I first started, it was two guys were the only ones I saw online doing this. And there really wasn’t dad groups and things like that. Or at least that I knew about. And in the thirteen years now, dad groups are more the norm. Y’know, we don’t have one in every neighborhood—like, it’s still easier to find a mom’s group than it is a dad’s group—but we’re out there. And I go in—in the book, I’m like, “How to find them.” How to find your tribe and kind of find your people. Because you know what? I need a place to go to ask real and honest questions that I don’t know. Like cracked nipples. That was a big deal to me ‘cause—yes, I don’t breastfeed. I understand that. But my wife does, and she was crying and there was blood and I didn’t know what to do. And who are you gonna ask? The doctor—the doctor’s gonna look at me like I’m creepy. I need to ask someone who’s been through it. And so now, that is more acceptable to have men together and to have that support system in place. And that’s better. What I would like to see further—and this is coming around now—is more parenting groups. But, y’know, I understand why it’s split like that. I get along with everybody. I can talk about anything. Right? You wanna talk episiotomies? Let’s do it. Let’s get into it. Right? [Through laughter] I’ve been through that. But I get that it can be kind of weird. So I would like to see just kind of more—less Us vs. Them, all that kind of crap. ‘Cause I think moms get such a bad rap on so much shit. Right? They get—their expectations are so high, they’re unattainable. They really are. And we see that in the dad world. We’re like, “That’s stupid. That—she’s—can’t pull that off because no one can.” And I would like to see that go away and just let us all be parents. 

00:20:47

Biz

Host

Alright. I want—[Laughs.] I want to get into—I love this. One of my favorite things is your “How to identify the different moms you might come across at the playground.”

[Shannon laughs.] 

And—again—again—if you are a sensitive type, maybe [through laughter] without a sense of humor, this might not be your book. And I get it. But like I said, dads also totally deserve this book. Talk to me about how you determined how you categorized the different moms. 

[Shannon laughs.] 

And then—and then like—

00:21:25

Shannon

Host

We’ll get into this. [Laughs.] 

00:21:27

Biz

Host

Is there a quiz that I can take that lets me know—

[Shannon laughs.] 

Like a Cosmo quiz—that lets me know which mom I am? That’s—this is—I want us to assess this by the time we’re done. [Conspiratorially] It’s probably the bad one. Anyway. [Laughs.] 

00:21:41

Shannon

Host

No, no. You’re what we call a Good Witch Glinda. And we came up with that because it’s—

00:21:47

Biz

Host

I’m cool. Dads are cool.

00:21:49

Shannon

Host

You’re cool but you’re helpful. You just treat us like normal individuals as dads, and we really appreciate that. And that’s kind of your—your—y’know, the Good Witch Glinda. Now, the way I came up with the different—and it’s a joke, so everyone get ready. It’s a good joke. [Laughs.] But there are certain kind of people you run into in the world. Like, the Mary Poppins Mom is one of ‘em, I call it. Y’know, she’s almost perfect. Like, she will power walk a mountain, I think is the one I put up there. And she has everything in her bag and she will help you. Also kinda judgmental. [Laughs.] Y’know. Just a tad. And then there’s the Wolf Pack Mom Group. Now, this is true—those are the kind of moms that kinda—they’re kind of the badasses of the playground. They take up all the chairs. Get a little bit scary but they do not notice you as a dad or it’s just—right? And I’ve known—the other one kind of is what I think I call The Yeller. Y’know. You’re at the park as a dad. Yeah. You’re at the park. And… she wants to know where your kids are and why you’re there. And that—that actually has happened to a lot of [through laughter] stay-at-home dads. 

00:22:50

Biz

Host

You chose an interesting—you chose an interesting name for The Yeller. I’m like, “Is it The Yeller? Is that the name that you really went with originally? Because—”

[Shannon laughs.] 

“Y’know, I’m not sure that they’re ‘yelling’ as much as they are ‘making sweeping assumptions about a man on a playground.’” So. Y’know. Just throwing that out there. You were very nice.

00:23:14

Shannon

Host

But for the moms, I can do the same thing with the dads ‘cause we got our own dickheads in the dads group place. There’s Craft Beer Dad. There’s the Over-The-Top Dad. Honestly, that’s me. Y’know. There’s the Bro Dad. I hate the Bro Dad. Like, everything’s “Bro, bro! Let’s go do this, bro. And check it.” I’m like, “No.” So—

[Biz laughs.] 

I do the same thing with dads. I just do it—y’know, it’s a book for dads so this is to make ‘em laugh. [Laughs.] 

00:23:35

Biz

Host

Yeah. No. It’s great. It’s—it’s really… [Laughs.] 

00:23:39

Shannon

Host

Your husband will laugh a lot and you probably will, too. 

00:23:42

Biz

Host

Well, I laughed a lot because I’m Cool Mom. Uh—but like—

[Shannon laughs.] 

And I have a sense of humor. Because my children are older, so I have a sense of humor now. As opposed to when I was younger and nothing was funny. I have—one of my categories—I like to call myself the Jack Reacher Mom. So if you read Jack Reacher books, this is like one of these guys who always has his back to the corner and can see every exit? I am the one at the playground that, like, I’m the Jack Reacher. I see where every child is at all times. Mine or otherwise. Like, “That one’s wandering off. They—totally—totally gone. There’s no parent aware.”

[Shannon laughs.] 

“That that child is off.” Y’know, and then it’s like, “Okay—how do I assist without, y’know—” And then we do have a subgroup, and it’s the Dads Lodge. The Dads Elk Lodge or whatever. And it’s—I’m part of it, but I do not interfere in their dad world.

[Shannon laughs.] 

But every one in a while, I’ll see a question come up on Facebook and it’s exactly like that. It’s exactly like the question about the cracked nipples. It’s like, “Look, my wife’s going through this” or “My child’s going through this. I’m really stressed out. How do I support? How do I get support for myself?” Which goes into something else you talk about in the book, which is—mental health. And… I—y’know. There are stereotypes that surround that for men, I think, more than women. Because we’ve got things like postpartum. Things we can call it. Whatever. However misused that can be at time. But talk to me a little bit about what you talk about in the book when it comes to mental health.

00:25:20

Shannon

Host

Well, y’know, just with mental health stuff—with dads and men in general, we’re always taught to ignore it or don’t tell anybody about it. Be stoic. Be stoic. Be John Wayne. And I was like, “John Wayne cried, dude.” I mean, you could say that. He did eventually. Even if it was by himself in the corner, it happened. 

[Biz laughs.] 

And so—and the “fatherhood” word—being a father—it changes you fundamentally. Y’know? And you’re not ready for it, even when you think you are. And don’t ignore your mental health because if you do it’s gonna come back and make life harder. And that’s gonna affect your other relationships. And it’s hard to say, y’know, to take care of other people, take care of yourself first? It’s hard to say that. Right? But it’s a fundamental truth that all mothers know. Right? You gotta take care of yourself ‘cause—

00:25:59

Biz

Host

Yeah, but we don’t do it, either. I mean, y’know. It’s easy to say, hard to do. Yeah.

00:26:03

Shannon

Host

Exactly. And with dads, it’s just not talked about. And I was like, “No. We’re not gonna do that in this book. We’re not gonna pretend that anxiety doesn’t exist or depression doesn’t exist. We’re not gonna ignore people.” And so that’s why I wrote the chapter of explaining my own mental health stuff and, y’know. Coming clean with it. Because it’s really hard to do and it’s really hard to even look at that chapter. I wrote it six times. That’s how many times I wrote that chapter. It was six times. But I have to! If any other dad’s gonna get help, I have to. And then it gives you resources and strategies on how to help yourself. How to find guys that have been through it. And the men that I interviewed there for that one, those are the heroes to me. They were all honest. And all just upfront with it. And that’s gonna help people. At least I hope so. That’s how the came about, yeah. 

00:26:50

Biz

Host

No, it does! I’m just such a big believer in the more people talk about these sorts of things, the less exciting they are. And you want ‘em to not be exciting. You want ‘em to be as exciting as the grocery list. This is something on my list I need to take care of. We all get it. Here we go. I also really like the advice that is given throughout the book by different dads. My favorite was—well, one of my favorites—is the “do not share a diaper bag with your partner.” Right? Like don’t—because when a baby’s screaming, you don’t have time to rearrange that bag the way that you want it. Yeah. But how do you feel about macho dad bags? Did you ever feel like you were—

[Shannon laughs.]

—getting sold something? Like—like, y’know, the pink razor for ladies? Like, do men get, “Yours has camo! And it’s black!” Right? Like—[Laughs.] 

00:27:44

Shannon

Host

And it’s always named something like the Marine Sniper 002 Man Bag. And you’re like, I just need a fucking bag, man. [Laughs.] 

00:27:51

Biz

Host

I know! [Laughs.] I know. Does it have enough pockets? I just need twenty pockets.

00:27:55

Shannon

Host

I need a lot of pockets. I need a lot of Velcro. I need a cooler to put my breastmilk in. Y’know. I need stuff. [Laughs.] 

00:28:02

Biz

Host

Yeah. Exactly. It needs stuff! That’s right. What’s the feedback? Have you gotten any feedback on this yet?

00:28:08

Shannon

Host

On the man bag stuff? Or—

00:28:10

Biz

Host

No! No! [Laughs.] 

00:28:12

Shannon

Host

I mean, I was like, I don’t know. The man bag? Yeah, we all agree.

00:28:15

Biz

Host

No! No, no. What do you—what’s the response been on the book?

00:28:18

Shannon

Host

Honestly, a little bit overwhelming. It’s very humbling for me because it’s hitting a chord with dads. And I think over this last eighteen months that dads are more involved—as they should be. Mothers have been carrying more of the mental load and that needs to change, and this is a way to get that change to happen. Y’know. I don’t like shaming dads? I like showing them the better way to do it. But I can also acknowledge our shortfall that we need to step up, and there’s dads that do. Now I know a lot of very, very involved fathers—actually, 57 of them that are in the book—they tell you how to do it. So, y’know, I—all the reviews that I’ve gotten have been super positive. The people I’ve talked to have been super excited. And then those little quips and pieces of advice—like, things that you’ve jumped on—there’s been other people that are like, “Oh, that’s great.” Like, carrying around post-it notes in your diaper bag when you’re potty training? Yes! And you put ‘em over automatic flushers! That’s a great tip! And I’ve had people come to me and say, “That’s fantastic.” So.

00:29:17

Biz

Host

Yeah. That is a great tip. Because we used to not be able to go into the bathrooms at airports and Disneyland. Because the noise was like too much. For my youngest. And I did! I had the post-it notes in my back pocket!

[Shannon laughs.] 

To go in and do it! And like—y’know, ‘cause it’s weird when you walk in and go, “Can everybody just not flush for like… just two minutes! Just two minutes! Just everybody hold it! No flushing!”

00:29:45

Shannon

Host

You gotta hang on! [Laughs.] 

00:29:46

Biz

Host

Yeah. Exactly. “No hair drying! No hand dryers! Stop it!”

00:29:48

Shannon

Host

Well here’s a truth for ya—we did some of our potty training—so I live in the middle of the country and there are times when we’re out on the prairie. And with my whole dads’ group. And we just started peeing on Larry’s truck tire. That’s how [through laughter] we—‘cause we were like, “Pee on the tire, guys.” [Laughs.] 

00:30:01

Biz

Host

Poor Larry. Poor Larry.

00:30:02

Shannon

Host

I know!

00:30:03

Biz

Host

But Larry? Larry, we all know it’s your truck. You’re not allowed to park in my driveway, Larry. [Laughs.] 

00:30:09

Shannon

Host

No. But we appreciate your tire, Larry. You’ve potty-trained like eight kids that way, probably. [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

00:30:15

Biz

Host

I love it. Alright. Anything for you? I’m gonna wrap up with this. For you—is there anything that you kind of discovered or became more aware of or… I dunno. Did you have like a come-to-god moment kind of thing while you were working on the book? 

00:30:30

Shannon

Host

Yeah, there was some places like that. Y’know—[sighs]. I’ll tell ya this. My wife loved parts of when I was doing it. So I’m researching cleaning stuff. So I’m potentially getting things messy? And then cleaning ‘em up. Right? I’m like, “How far can I push this vinegar/baking soda thing, right?” 

00:30:48

Biz

Host

Oh, you can push it everywhere, Shannon!

[Shannon laughs.] 

00:30:50

Shannon

Host

[Laughs.] Oh, it goes far.

00:30:51

Biz

Host

It goes—my husband just recently was like, “You can do anything with vinegar and baking soda.” And I was like, “You are correct. And the patriarchy is real.” Ack! But like—[Laughs.] What other—

00:31:02

Shannon

Host

I was walking around the house going, “I need a stain to clean up. Someone pee on the floor. Where’s the dog?” Right? [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

So, y’know, there were moments like that and there’s something called Swedish Death Cleaning, which is like a whole thing! And I was like, “That’s an aggressive way to clean.” [Laughs.] So there were parts of that which were really good. But I think for me, the epiphany was at the end of the book. ‘Cause I was stuck and I didn’t really know how to finish it, right? And I didn’t wanna be too sappy, but I wanted to be more “rah, rah!” And I got stuck and it was—this was almost in the beginning of the pandemic. And I was out driving on a rainy day, and by accident I went to the very first place I ever took my kids together by myself. And it was a Civil War battlefield out in Missouri, right? Just didn’t mean to. I know! And they had this little pergola that I could sit under the rain. And I was like, “Oh, I know how to finish the book! The same place I kind of started the book! With the very first adventure!” And I hit the end and those words, but then I look through it and I thought, “Holy crap, this is good. People—dads need this.” Like it was a legit thing that I was like, “Dads need something that doesn’t condescend to them. That tells them how to do it.” And that was my epiphany there. So those were my two extremes on that side. [Laughs.] 

00:32:19

Biz

Host

I 100% agree. And I will also say that I encourage moms to also pick up this book, because it’s very helpful as a parent. 

00:32:32

Shannon

Host

Thank you.

00:32:34

Biz

Host

In general. And I think it’s also helpful in understanding how to support your partner as a father, as a stay—whether they’re stay-at-home or not. I think it’s—it’s a great way to open up conversation. Because, y’know, we all discover that when kids enter our lives, there are a lot of discussions we forgot to have [through laughter] with them. With the other adults in the house.

[Shannon laughs.] 

And then that just builds into a beautiful resentment pie. So… I just wanna say, really, this is an excellent book. Thank you for putting it out there in the world. And you’re doing a great job!

00:33:16

Shannon

Host

Thank you! That means a lot! And it really actually—I know I shouldn’t, but I crave mothers’ approval in the parenting world. I don’t know why, but I do! [Laughs.] 

00:33:25

Biz

Host

It’s not mothers’ approval! It’s all approval! You are, in fact, doing a good job! And anybody who’s got kids knows that you never get to hear that enough. Y’know? Because you’re lame. ‘Cause you’ve got kids in your house. Blehhh.

[Shannon laughs.] 

Anyway. Everybody? You know where to buy books. But just for fun, we’ll put a link in the show notes for how you can get The Ultimate Stay-At-Home Dad: Your Essential Manual For Being An Awesome Full-Time Father. Do not wait for Father’s Day to get this. Go get it right now. And I—y’know, if your school has a little section up in the front for parent library?

[Shannon laughs.] 

Grab an extra copy for that. Don’t be weird and give it to like… strange men. And be like, “You’re gonna need this ‘cause you suck.” And we will link everybody up to where they can find out more about Shannon Carpenter. And we—we have always promoted that we probably haven’t in a long time thrown our links up for the Stay-At-Home Dad’s Network, which is a great, great community. And—are they still doing the Dad 2.0 conferences? Or are they—

00:34:35

Shannon

Host

They’re getting back up there. They’re gonna get their Dad 2.0. They have a great online community and they’re really supportive and of this book. So yeah. Them and City Dads Group. Always will love those guys. So that’s how you find a group chat.

00:34:46

Biz

Host

Oh great! Make sure—we’ll—all of those links will be there in the show notes for everybody. Thank you so much, Shannon.

00:34:53

Shannon

Host

Thank you for having me! This was a fun talk. I loved this one. [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

00:34:56

Biz

Host

Alright. Bye. 

00:34:59

Music

Music

“Ones and Zeroes” by “Awesome.” Steady, driving electric guitar with drum and woodwinds.

[Music fades out.]

00:35:16

Music

Promo

Inspirational keyboard music plays in background.

00:35:17

Biz

Promo

One Bad Mother is supported in part by Billie. Billie set out to be the best razor out there for women at half the price you’d expect. And guess what, dudes? You could also [through laughter] totally use this affordable razor! Their starter kit comes with their award-winning razor, two precision five-blade refill cartridges, and—my favorite—the magnetic holder. And I will tell you—it was a great little starter kit for my oldest. When they said they were ready to take a stab at shaving. Woo! Don’t suffer another second paying a pink tax for a bad shave. Go to MyBillie.com/mother to get the best razor you will ever own while supporting this show! Billie is half the price of other razors, plus free shipping always. Just go to MyBillie.com/mother. Spelled MY-B-I-L-L-I-E.com/mother. That’s—here we go—MyBillie.com/mother. 

[Music fades out.]

00:36:21

Music

Promo

Cheerful ukulele with whistling plays in background.

00:36:22

Biz

Promo

One Bad Mother is supported in part by Smalls. Smalls is fresh, human-grade food for cats! Delivered right to your doorstep! Those kitties need fresh, protein-packed meals. Listen. With the help of cat nutritionists, Smalls develops complete and balanced recipes for all life stages. Smalls’ recipes are gently cooked to lock in proteins, vitamins, minerals, and moisture. And I am excited to finally have a sponsor for our cats! [Laughs.] I gotta tell ya—all three of my cats have enjoyed what we got from Smalls, including Onion, who has a very sensitive stomach. [Laughs.] Look, all you gotta do is take a short quiz on Smalls.com/badmother to customize your sampler. Take a short quiz on Smalls.com/badmother to customize your sampler, and use code “badmother” for a total of 30% off your first order. That’s Smalls.com/badmother, code “badmother.”

[Music fades out.]

00:37:34

Theresa

Host

Hey, you know what it’s time for! This week’s genius and fails! This is the part of the show where we share our genius moment of the week, as well as our failures, and feel better about ourselves by hearing yours. You can share some of your own by calling 206-350-9485. That’s 206-350-9485.

00:37:53

Biz

Host

Genius fail time. Genius me… me! 

00:37:58

Clip

Clip

[Dramatic, swelling music in background.]

Biz: Wow! Oh my God! Oh my God! I saw what you did! Oh my God! I’m paying attention! Wow! You, mom, are a genius. Oh my God, that’s fucking genius!

00:38:13

Biz

Host

Okey-dokey. Alright. Slice-and-bake cookies, guys. [Laughs.] The other day, I needed to go to the store to get some stuff. And I was like, “I’m gonna get some slice-and-bake cookies. Because those are fucking easy.” And I did. I got—not even slice-and-bake! I got the ones that are like… like, it’s a square. It’s like a rectangle. Like, old cafeteria-pizza-style rectangle of cookie dough that is precut. And all I gotta do is break it apart. Oops! One fell in my mouth. Anyway. [Laughs.] I am of a generation that ate raw cookie dough and survived. No. My children are not allowed to do that. See you at the emergency room in a week. Okay. So cut up some cookies. Cook ‘em. And then when I go pick up the kids? I’m like… “I have cookies!” Because Ellis—no matter how good his day is—always gets in the car and says it’s shit. Well, he doesn’t say that. But he does, “This was the worst day ever!” And I say, “I’ve got cookies.” And Ellis is like, “This day is turning around!” And gets to eat the cookies. And hilariously said, “Maybe this could be called ‘cookie parenting.’” And I said, “Quite possibly you’re onto something.” Anyway. Slice-and-bake cookies made me feel like a supermom. Like, at pickup, which is always, eh. Hit or miss. So there ya go. Don’t forget. People have done the work for you already. [Laughs.] 

00:39:42

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

Hi, Biz and Theresa! I’m calling with a genius or fail. I’ve been engaging in some cake parenting. [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

I got my kids out of bed yesterday and also this morning by telling them they could have a chocolate zucchini cupcake if they got up right away. For breakfast. I’m not sure if I should just leave it there. Just end myself by saying there’s no frosting on these cupcakes, but they’re definitely cupcakes. Let’s be clear. They’re not muffins. 

[Biz laughs.] 

On the genius side, it totally worked. Like, I went in to try to wake them up and sometimes they’re up really early and this time they were both like curled up tight in their blankets and having a really hard time getting out of bed and promising them a chocolate zucchini cupcake got them to get up immediately, put their clothes on, and come down for breakfast. [Laughs.] So really eased our morning. But also I mean I just—I just fed cake to my children for breakfast. Two days in a row. So, um—

00:40:38

Biz

Host

Two days?

00:40:39

Caller

Caller

Yeah. I don’t know how to classify that one. I guess you can pick where you’re gonna play it. [Through laughter] If you play it. Anyway. Uh, thank you for the term “cake parenting,” which I definitely—

[Biz laughs.] 

—appreciated as I was feeding them cupcakes. I was like, “Oh! Look at me! I’m—I’m doing cake parenting. That’s fine. This is—this is all fine.” Thanks, guys. You’re doing a great job. Bye.

00:41:01

Biz

Host

So are you! Surprise! You’re a genius! That’s where you are. Surprise. Wow. Way to sneak in the two mornings in a row right there at the end! I love this. It is cake parenting at its finest. I also appreciate that you clarified they aren’t muffins—they’re cakes. ‘Cause they have icing on them. And that, my friend, I think is a very important clarification in the world of cake parenting. This falls into the whole side argument of “are brownies cake?” No. “Is a muffin a cake?” I don’t think so. But if there’s icing on it, yes! That makes it a cake. It had zucchini somewhere in it. That’s a vegetable. Maybe. And you know what? Maybe we’re just looking at it wrong. Maybe we should be feeding cake in the morning and then, like, something healthy after dinner. Like, “Here’s your frittata.” I don’t know. Is there really that many healthy things for breakfast? [Laughs.] “Here’s your Toaster Strudel! Here’s your sugar cereal!” Anyway. I think you’re doing an amazing job. Two points for cake parenting. Failures. 

00:42:18

Clip

Clip

[Dramatic orchestral music plays in the background.]

Theresa: [In a voice akin to the Wicked Witch of the West] Fail. Fail. Fail. FAIL!

[Timpani with foot pedal engaged for humorous effect.]

Biz: [Calmly] You suck!

00:42:24

Biz

Host

Fail me, me. Okay. This is just a—it just shows you how in sync the world is with each other right now. Two days ago, at breakfast—[Laughs.] Ellis just turns to me and says, “You haven’t been doing any cake parenting recently.” And it’s true. [Laughs.] It’s true. I don’t think I’ve baked a cake in… a really long time. Since somebody’s birthday. Maybe Raiden’s birthday? I don’t even think we did a cake! I can’t remember! I’m sure I did a cake. Anyway. Oh yeah. Gabe’s like, “You did a cake.” And I’m like, “Thanks.” And I’m giving Gabe attitude that he doesn’t give me. Like, [with snark] “I did a—you did a cake!” That’s not what Gabe sounds like. I—anyway. Ellis is very serious about it. I said, “Oh, you’re right, Ellis.” “I think you need to get back into cake parenting. I’m gonna need you to do some cake parenting soon.” And Stefan looked at me and was like, “You’re a monster for not cake parenting.” And I said, “Obviously this is my fail.” And then just to show you that cake parenting is in my future, Ellis—later that day—said to Raiden, “Hey, Raiden—” Formerly known as the artist Katy Belle “—hey, Raiden! Guess what? Mama’s bringing back cake parenting!” And Raiden, like a good tween, said, [flatly] “Yayyy.” [Laughs.] Anyway. See you next week for whatever I did with cake. 

00:44:00

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

Hi! I’m calling with a fail. Every Friday I think, “Aw, how nice! It’s Friday!” And then every Saturday morning when I open my eyes, I think, “Huh. It’s Saturday morning. This is gonna be great.” And then by about 9 AM I remember, “Oh. That’s right. I’m a mom now.” So—

[Biz laughs.] 

00:44:31

Biz

Host

Whomp, whomp.

00:44:32

Caller

Caller

—weekends aren’t fun. And then I get kinda grumpy about it. Every weekend. And that’s it. That’s the fail. It’s the cyclical fail. The Friday then Saturday grieving. 

[Biz laughs.] 

[Sighs.] I suck.

00:44:51

Biz

Host

Wow. You discovered it. You’ve nailed it. Whomp, whomp. It’s Saturday! Whaah-waaah-waaaah. There’s nothing great about the weekends. You’re a parent. [Laughs.] It’s like—you know what’s coming, guys. The witch costume is coming, because it’s almost Halloween. Because it’s October 1^st when I’m recording this. So like “weekends” are to “good days to be in the world” as “sad mom witch” is to “Halloween costumes.” Right? You think, “This is the year I’m gonna have a good costume,” and you wind up a sad mom witch. This is the Friday and Saturday morning you think, “Whoo! Weekend! TGI… fuck! It’s actually not gonna be fun!” Waah-waah. So like, I’m sorry? And you’re right. The fail is the Groundhog’s Day loop you find yourself in. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’ll see you at the playground. I’ll be the one crying. [Laughs.] 

00:46:00

Music

Music

“Mom Song” by Adira Amram. Mellow piano music with lyrics.

You are the greatest mom I’ve ever known.

I love you, I love you.

When I have a problem, I call you on the phone.

I love you, I love you.

[Music fades out.]

00:46:24

Promo

Clip

Music: Cheerful, brassy music.

[The chatter of a wedding party, quieted by the insistent clinking of a glass.]

Kyle: [Clears throat.] Hey, excuse me everybody. I just wanted to say a few words about the beautiful couple. I’ve known you two for a long time. And you get along like peanut butter and chocolate! Or, you know, [chuckling] like—like, uh, comedy and culture! Like, uh, Maximum Fun podcasts.

[Polite chuckles from the crowd.]

Kyle: Actually, they’re having a block party from October 11^th to October 22^nd. And that’s kind of like your party. Right? You have a community of friends and family, and Max Fun has a community of shows and audiences that support them!

[Curious sounds from the crowd.]

Kyle: You’re having a new start with your life together and Max Fun will be putting out new episodes that are especially welcoming to new audiences! So, it’s a great time to introduce your friends to your favorite show or jump into one you haven’t tried before.

Speaker 1: [Quietly.] Is he still talking about podcasts?

Kyle: AND they’re setting up a volunteer event where we can help out our local communities, plus Maximum Fun is gonna have games, prizes, episode recs, so much other fun stuff!

Speaker 2: What’s wrong with Kyle? Is he okay?

Kyle: Oh! [Chuckles.] Anyways, anyways. Sorry for getting carried away there. If it’s alright with everybody here, let’s all raise our glasses for a toast. To the Max Fun Block Party!

[The audience groans.]

Kyle: Which you can learn more about at MaximumFun.org/blockparty and don’t forget to join in on October 11^th!

Speaker 3: Actually, that sounds pretty cool.

00:48:03

Biz

Host

Okay, everybody. It is time… for a mom… rant. 

00:48:09

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

This is a rant. My daughter is having a birthday party this month and my in-laws and many of my daughter’s uncles, aunts, refuse to get vaccinated. And so I put on my invitation if they wanted to come and they’re not vaccinated, to please wear a mask. Which I didn’t feel like was that much to ask. But now… they are all saying that they cannot come to this birthday party. For a four-year-old. My father-in-law says that he will not wear a mask and be subjected. Several of the other relatives who said that they are coming at first are now not coming. And I just—I just cannot even understand this logic. So I went on and changed one simple word in the invitation to say, “When you go inside.” Because outside in the state that we’re living, you don’t have to wear masks. And that still isn’t enough. And I just cannot believe that people will not make a sacrifice for a four-year-old little girl. [Sighs.] I just needed to say that to somebody. And get some support. Thanks! I hope you guys are having a great day. 

00:49:40

Biz

Host

First of all, you’re doing an amazing job. I actually made a note about this rant in my show notes to—for the show. And it says—and I’m gonna say this to you now—my thought listening to you was, “How incredibly unfair that is to you.” You’ve invited family. And you’ve been clear. [Laughs.] You’ve been clear not only once, but accommodating a second time. And their choices leave you in a situation in which you now have to question yourself. You have to… wonder if maybe you should just let them come? Like, you’d—I—I—you’re also stuck in the position of how do you explain this to your kid if they ask. It’s putting you in a position to have to worry and think about this whether you want to or not. I’m not saying you should be worried. I’m just saying as a parent, parent-to-parent, I know this is the kind of thing that just gets stuck in your head and becomes a problem that didn’t need to be a problem. So that’s first. I am really sorry that they’re putting you in this position. Two? Fuck that! I am so angry. I am so with you. I—look. I think everybody who can should be vaccinated. ‘K? I have not—I have not been unclear on that. [Laughs.] Issue. On the show. This is not a work situation. This is not, like, “I don’t wanna wear it at this Dodgers game” Right? This is not any situation in which somebody might find a reason to defend their right to not wear a mask. ‘K? This is a party for a four-year-old. Who—guess what? I’m fully vaccinated. And I would still wear a mask to a party with a four-year-old, because the four-year-old can’t get vaccinated. Alright? That is—that is… how easy a choice that is. And I think choosing to not see your four-year-old niece/grandchild/cousin/whatever—a four-year-old who’s never done anything to you! [Laughs.] It’s a sweet little four-year-old! And it’s what, a two-hour birthday party, max? For a four-year-old? You won’t put a mask on at the request of the mother of a four-year-old. You… are… a jerk. [Laughs.] You are being a jerk! You’re not being a defendant of your rights, in my opinion, at that point in time. You’re being a jerk to not put on a mask for a four-year-old. That’s heartbreaking to me! That’s so heartbreaking! And I—in listening to you, I want you to know that your choices are correct. To have set that boundary for your four-year-old, unvaccinated child’s birthday party is your right to do that. You do not have to change it to accommodate others who are willing to put your child at risk. And it really sucks that this is happening within families. It sucks so much. Because I think of all the things that we do for our families. I think about all the other times in which we—I don’t know—not smoke in their house. Right? Or not swear around grandma. Or, y’know, don’t wear—[Laughs.] “Elizabeth, we’re going to see your grandmother today. Can you please not wear the ‘Fuck You’ t-shirt?” “Okay, Mama. I won’t. I will—out of respect to my family—dress quote-unquote ‘nicely.’” Right? Like—[Laughs.] “Don’t tell your grandmother you’re living with a man.” “Okay. That’s easy. Fun. I can do that. Who cares?” We already support each other in lots of ways. So I find it very hard to understand why one would not just put a mask on for a four-year-old’s birthday party. And I’ve now said that 253 times. All of that is to say, you’re doing an amazing job. I wish it wouldn’t be weird for you to post this to like a local One Bad Mother group, because you know who would show up at that party? A bunch of masked OBMs. Okay? Turn this party into, like, a friend event. Where you invite a couple of your friends, and you guys all have a nice time with this—with your child. Okay? I haven’t had a birthday party with family for my kids for years. For years! Alright? So have just a kickass party. For you. Get a pinata! You guys—just you and your child could just sit there and whack the crap out of that pinata. That child will love it. I would demand that all those people at least send that child a gift. Jerks. You’re doing… an amazing job. 

00:55:16

Biz

Host

Guys? We’ve stepped away sometimes from remembering the mantra of “Don’t Be A Jerk.” I have a sign that hangs above our door in the kitchen that leads outside. And it says, “Don’t Be A Jerk.” It’s sort of like, y’know, the football teams? They run out and they kiss and—[Laughs.] Hit their team name as they run out of the locker room? “Don’t Be A Jerk” is ours. And everybody has the power to be a jerk. [Laughs.] And everybody has the power to not be. And there are lots of grey areas where we make mistakes. Maybe we don’t realize that we are being a jerk. I have sat happily in that place. Well, not happily. I have sat in that uncomfortable place often. But if we can learn from those moments, it helps us be less of a jerk the next time around. And I think about our rant call. This mom who’s just trying to have a party for a four-year-old. And people not wanting to put on a mask. That’s just being a jerk. You’re just being a jerk. There’s nothing like—I’m sorry. Convince me otherwise, and I will humbly listen. But I—on the face, the story I’ve heard so far? You’re just being a jerk if you won’t put a mask on to go to a four-year-old’s birthday party. That’s in your family! Okay? And that—that sucks. But it serves as a reminder that we make lots of effort to not be jerks to the people who are important to us in our lives. And also, talking with Shannon, it’s a really good reminder that fathers, dads, parents who identify as either of those—they are also doing their best. And we should not be a jerk to them. And I’m not saying just moms shouldn’t be a jerk. Men shouldn’t be a jerk. Women shouldn’t be a jerk. Y’know. Alligators shouldn’t be jerks. All of us! However you identify, like—anybody who’s spending that much time with a child? Deserves some [through laughter] grace. [Laughs.] And I think that is just a good reminder that I also always need, to remember that I didn’t marry an asshole. And that the other men that I see out in the world parenting are working just as hard. Again, it’s assuming from a place of good and of effort and of… trying your best. Rather than starting from the place of assuming that the grass is greener or that they are doing it at you. So I don’t know. [Sighs.] Let’s just try not to be jerks! Put a mask on. Um—[Laughs.] Guys? You’re all doing an amazing job. All of you! Let’s don’t fall into those traps of assuming that dads are the worst. Let’s don’t fall into the traps of, y’know, assuming that mom has got it going on and you don’t. Somehow. We all are failing. We’re all struggling. We are all that parent who called in at the beginning of the show who is just constantly haggard and broken. ‘K? That’s where we all are. And I see you. And you are doing a really remarkable job. And I will talk to you next week. Bye!

00:58:57

Music

Music

“Mama Blues” by Cornbread Ted and the Butterbeans. Strumming acoustic guitar with harmonica and lyrics.

I got the lowdown momma blues

Got the the lowdown momma blues

Gots the lowdown momma blues

The lowdown momma blues. 

Gots the lowdown momma blues

Got the lowdown momma blues

You know that’s right.

[Music fades somewhat, plays briefly in background of dialogue.]

00:59:20

Biz 

Host

We’d like to thank MaxFun; our producer, Gabe Mara; our husbands, Stefan Lawrence and Jesse Thorn; our perfect children, who provide us with inspiration to say all these horrible things; and of course, you, our listeners. To find out more about the songs you heard on today’s podcast and more about the show, please go to MaximumFun.org/onebadmother. For information about live shows, our book and press, please check out OneBadMotherPodcast.com.

00:59:49

Theresa

Host

One Bad Mother is a member of the Maximum Fun family of podcasts. To support the show go to MaximumFun.org/donate.

[Music continues for a while before fading out.]

01:00:13

Music

Transition

A cheerful ukulele chord.

01:00:14

Speaker 1

Guest

MaximumFun.org.

01:00:15

Speaker 2

Guest

Comedy and culture.

01:00:17

Speaker 3

Guest

Artist owned—

01:00:18

Speaker 4

Guest

—Audience supported.