TRANSCRIPT One Bad Mother Episode 424: Thanks, Media! You’ve Been SUPER Helpful For Parents, with Shayna Ferm and Tracey Tee

00:00:00

Biz Ellis

Host

Hi. I’m Biz.

00:00:01

Theresa Thorn

Host

And I’m Theresa.

00:00:02

Biz

Host

Due to the pandemic, we bring you One Bad Mother straight from our homes—including such interruptions as: children! Animal noises! And more! So let’s all get a little closer while we have to be so far apart. And remember—we are doing a good job.

00:00:20

Music

Music

“Summon the Rawk” by Kevin MacLeod. Driving electric guitar and heavy drums.

[Continues through dialogue.]

00:00:24

Biz

Host

This week on One Bad Mother—thanks, media! You’ve been super helpful for parents. We talk to Shayna Ferm and Tracey Tee from the Band of Mothers podcast about changes in the mom media landscape. Plus, Biz sits alone. 

00:00:39

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz and caller: Wooooo!

[Biz laughs.] 

00:00:43

Caller

Caller

I am getting really good at this! And I am doing a great job! ‘Cause I just dropped off all three of my kids at their various schools. And I did it on time. In fact, I was early! We had to sit in the car and listen to music. And it was fun! And they enjoyed it!

[Biz laughs.] 

I’m alone and get to be a Self for the next three hours! Which is amazing. Because I have a two-year-old and a four-year-old and I haven’t actually gotten to do that much since the four-year-old was born. Because I have another kid who’s older. And I was just starting to get a taste of freedom when she was four, and then I lost it. Because I had another kid. And another kid. And now… I’m free!

[Biz laughs.] 

They’re all at school! And it’s amazing! And I get to go and I get to drink my coffee and eat whatever I want for breakfast ‘cause nobody’s going to interrupt me. I’m really excited. You are doing a great job. You’re all doing a great job. And I am a Self!

00:01:42

Biz

Host

Wooo! Awesome! You are a Self for at least three hours! Good job! Good job. I… I loved this woo check-in. Thank you for being so enthusiastic about what a good job you’re doing! Because you are doing a good job! You got—[Laughs.] I especially love the “and we even got there early! And we all had to sit in the car and listen to music!” I—[Laughs.] That is the thing that lots of people do. And we clearly haven’t talked about that enough on the show, because for a brief moment when I heard you say that I was like, “I do that, too!” I can’t tell you the number of times that we have gotten there too early. Like, just enough where you can’t go in yet. [Through laughter] And you have to listen to some music. And I’m glad that that turned out to be fun for you and all of your kids. You’re doing an absolutely remarkable job. And just the vision of you sitting alone, having coffee, and eating whatever the fuck you want without interruption, is gonna tie in so nicely to what I’m gonna talk about in my check-in, right after I get through saying—thank you.

00:03:00

Music

Music

Heavy electric guitar and driving percussion overlaid with “Ohh, oh-oh, oh-oh” and “Hey-ey-ey-ey-ey-ey” lyrics.

00:03:13

Biz

Host

[Singing] Thank youuu! [Regular voice] I gotta—it’s so—almost one-on-one in my heart right now. [Laughs.] Between teachers and the medical profession. I—they’re totally different! And yet doing some of the most important work ever. Medical professionals, thank you for continuing to show up. And for working within ridiculously impossible situations to sometimes just even meet the minimal amount of healthcare a person might be seeking when they come to see you. Because it’s like everything is an emergency right now. Still. Still! It’s sort of like parenting, isn’t it? Where you have a kid and you lose all this sleep. You lose all this like—y’know, you start to [through laughter] slide. Start to do a little slide. And you think, “I’ll get that back. I just need a couple of nights’ sleep.” Right? But then you come to realize that there’s no getting it back. Just every time something chips away—[Laughs.] It’s just chipping away! More! You’re just like the Grand Canyon. Just all of that is eroding. You cannot put the land back. So that is my depressing way of saying thank you so much for all of the work you are doing. And that goes for everybody in the medical profession.

Teachers? You’re also like the Grand Canyon. Slowly being eroded away. I—[Laughs.] I seriously love you. I know I said this, I think, on the last show. I am still in the mind-fuck that is the thought that, like, so many teachers right now? Are teaching kids who have never been in a school. Never! Been in a school! Like, they missed so much physical school time. [Laughs.] And we learned a lot in those, like, story times and preschools and daycare. We learn a lot about how to function with other kids. How to listen to a teacher. I remember in kindergarten, Raiden’s kindergarten teacher—the first field trip they did? Was to a grocery store. And I remember half the parents were like, “What is this? A grocery store?” And I gotta tell ya—I thought that woman was a genius. Because that field trip wasn’t about the grocery store. It was about teaching kindergarteners how to go on a field trip. “We’re gonna get on the bus. This is how we get off the bus. We’re gonna tour the grocery store. And then we’re gonna get back on the bus and go home.” Brilliant. Well now apply that to school. So I—teachers, I just wanna say that I see you. You are amazing. Thank you to everybody who is [sighs] out there wearing masks. And being vaccinated. And supporting the benefits of vaccines. They really are great and there are so many people who cannot get them for medical reasons. And it is our privilege to get a vaccine to support those who need us to for their health and safety. So… yay, vaccines and science! Thank you, science. 

Alright. I am going to say that I, too, recently had a day where the kids got to school and I had an hour before I had to start doing some sort of work thing? And I just… sat there. In fact, this is what I’ve been doing for the last few little bursts of “no one is in the house; it’s just me.” There was a time I would’ve probably played music or watched TV or danced around or—[through laughter] now I literally just sit on the couch. In total… silence. [Laughs.] That silence is such a gift. It’s such a gift! No one’s talking. No one’s like—there’s nothing loud happening. Or piercing. Crying or yelling or needing me to emotionally regulate them. It’s just me and silence. And I have to just… give a big shout-out for silence. Because we can get inundated from all sorts of places. From our kids, from our kids’ schools, from the news, from—everything! In fact, we can sometimes get particularly inundated from the amazing media landscape that is parenting media. Mom media. Things geared towards—or for—or about—parenting. Which I think ties in very nicely to what we are going to talk about today with Shayna Ferm and Tracey Tee. 

00:08:18

Music

Music

Banjo strums; cheerful banjo music continues through dialogue.

00:08:19

Theresa

Host

Please—take a moment to remember: If you’re friends of the hosts of One Bad Mother, you should assume that when we talk about other moms, we’re talking about you.

00:08:26

Biz

Host

If you are married to the host of One Bad Mother, we definitely are talking about you.

00:08:30

Theresa

Host

Nothing we say constitutes professional parenting advice.

00:08:33

Biz

Host

Biz and Theresa’s children are brilliant, lovely, and exceedingly extraordinary.

00:08:37

Theresa

Host

Nothing said on this podcast about them implies otherwise.

[Banjo music fades out.] 

[Biz, Shayna, and Tracey repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss the weekly topic.]

00:08:41

Biz

Host

Today we are welcoming back Shayna Ferm and Tracey Tee, creators of The Pump & Dump Show, a much-needed Mom’s Night Out event that quickly grew into a nationally-touring production, written, produced, and starring Shayna and Tracey. The pair toured for five years before replicating the show to star additional casts of new moms and cofounding their umbrella brand, Band of Mothers Media. Besides holding the positions of CEO—that’s Tracey—and Chief Creative Officer—Shayna—they also host the brilliant Band of Mothers podcast, a weekly variety show-style podcast featuring real mom stories, games, original comedy, music, and guest interviews. In 2018, riding the massive popularity of their show—no shit—Shayna and Tracey published their first book, Parentally Incorrect. It’s so nice to see both of you again. I love you.

00:09:39

Tracey Tee

Guest

Likewise! We love you!

00:09:40

Shayna Ferm

Guest

It’s so good to see you!

00:09:42

Biz

Host

No, I just—it’s—we were just—before we get into asking who lives in your house—again—I was just listening to a mom have a breakdown. And one of the things that she said was, “Stop being an asshole to moms.” And I was like, “We should just go ahead and change the name of this show. To Stop Being an Asshole to Moms.” Right? Like, anyway. I just… and I… I know that the work that you guys do and why we have always loved The Pump & Dump and all of that is because you share the same vision. Of not only everybody stop being an asshole to moms, but maybe—maybe we should stop being assholes to ourselves sometimes and just accept that we’re fucking great! So. That is my little personal bio about you guys. And with that said, Tracey? I’m gonna start with you. Who currently is living in your house?

00:10:40

Tracey

Guest

Yes. So still my daughter, who is now ten. Going on thirty-five. Y’know. Because of COVID years. And she’s— [Laughs.] Yeah. And my husband and then we used to have two dogs but we did, in fact, acquire a COVID puppy. A nine-pound chihuahua named Jojo. Who is named after one of the lead characters in the Syfy series Eureka? Which we binge-watched during lockdown. And Josefina became my daughter’s favorite character, and so when we drove an hour and a half away to buy—or rescue—the tiny chihuahua mix puppy, my husband was like, “Let’s call her Jojo!” And I didn’t think she was gonna be a big deal? ‘Cause she’s real small. But I have to say, I do not recommend three dogs. Like, ever. Two was okay. ‘Cause they played with each other and they’re much older. They’re fourteen and fifteen. 

[Biz laughs.] 

But it’s just so many legs and feet and tails and so much hair. And—

00:11:42

Shayna

Guest

It’s mostly because when you’re walking them, you look like you’ve been hired to walk them. 

[Multiple people laugh.] 

00:11:46

Biz

Host

You’re like a professional dog-walker!

00:11:48

Tracey

Guest

Oh, well—or if—‘cause there’s only three of us in our family and there’s three dogs? So it literally is like small, medium, large, and I’m the tallest. I’m taller than my husband. And so it’s like a Disney movie. We’re just taking our respective dogs and…

00:12:01

Biz

Host

Shayna, who lives in your house? 

00:12:03

Shayna

Guest

Uh, in my house is my daughter—who is ten—my son—who is nine—my husband, and I have one dog named after Top Chef. His name’s Chef. And—

[Biz laughs.] 

—during COVID I got a new car! [Laughs.] 

00:12:20

Biz

Host

Oh! You got a COVID car!

00:12:22

Shayna

Guest

I got my first car! Like, my first new car! 

00:12:25

Biz

Host

What’d you name it? 

00:12:27

Shayna

Guest

Uh—well now I gotta think of another TV show!

00:12:29

Tracey

Guest

You haven’t named your car! You’re right! But I will say the other thing we both acquired—which is very trendy—is we both got stock tank pools in our—we put—

00:12:40

Biz

Host

Stock tank pools? Wow! I thought you were gonna say you got COVID! At some point! It’s also very trendy. It’s trending right now.

00:12:48

Tracey

Guest

It’s so trendy. We got cow watering tanks and we had our—we all swim in them! 

00:12:55

Shayna

Guest

Yeah. That and we both really got into crypto. But the— [Laughs.] Those are like the two things that happened.

[Biz laughs.] 

During the pandemic. For us. [Laughs.] 

00:13:05

Biz

Host

That’s like a book. Right there. Just its own journey book of cow septic tanks or cow tanks or—something—

00:13:13

Tracey

Guest

[Through laughter] Cow septic tanks!

00:13:14

Biz

Host

Is there a septic word in there? I dunno.

00:13:16

Shayna

Guest

There—we definitely didn’t buy septic tanks. [Laughs.] 

00:13:17

Tracey

Guest

For the record, we don’t make our children swim in shit. Like, the things haven’t gotten that bad.

00:13:23

Biz

Host

We’re in California. We have no water. So, y’know. I don’t—it’s very—it’s very exotic. What you’re talking about. Alright. So. You guys have been… doing this sort of thing. You started with The Pump & Dump, the live show. And have just brilliantly—like, I am so just—and not like “in awe.” [Mocking voice] “What are you? Fucking saints?” [Regular voice] Like, oh my god. I—you guys are so awesome. To have really created a company. This umbrella. Y’know, this podcast. Creating the show to be something that other women can step up and perform in, which is really hard to find as parents. So you’ve been involved in I guess what people might call “mom media.” “Parent media.” Or one of those—

00:14:12

Shayna

Guest

Can I just say, Biz, because I just want to clarify before we even continue this conversation? That One Bad Mother, in our opinion, is the original mom podcast.

00:14:21

Tracey

Guest

I’ve been—I was gonna say the exact same thing.

[Biz laughs.] 

You guys—you guys paved the way for all of us. 100%.

00:14:28

Shayna

Guest

You pioneered it. And we never wanted to do a podcast? We’re seriously, thoroughly enjoying it now? But we never wanted to do a podcast because you guys—

00:14:38

Tracey

Guest

You guys do it! [Laughs.] 

00:14:40

Shayna

Guest

—exist! And you’re so great! And so we just—and we’re like, “Why do people need to hear us talk when they can listen to Biz and Theresa?” And so—

00:14:48

Tracey

Guest

That was a year of conversation. We were like, “Why would we wanna enter this space when One Bad Mother exists?”

00:14:52

Biz

Host

Because you’re amazing and should also—there should be—guess what? Not to be like super lean-on-the-mom heavy, but like—we’ve gotten a lot of stuff! As moms. [Laughs.] And so for me, I’m like, it’s like women in comedy in general. Like, there should be so many. Doing good work out there. That it’s not an oddity. That, y’know, there should be just so many options and choices. For people to access. That makes them feel normal and feel good? That it is great that your voices are out there.

00:15:29

Tracey

Guest

Thank you.

00:15:31

Shayna

Guest

Well thank you. But I think that that’s what’s made us—like, with this new iteration of the podcast—we just keep—y’know, I’m so tired of—and we can talk about it as we get into the—y’know, the nine years of media that we’ve all been a part of—I’m so tired of like men in some huge network producing, like, a mom comedy show for TV that lasts two months because nobody does it right. Because they don’t let the moms fucking do it. And so, y’know, we started our podcast. We’ve been getting our sea legs. And now we’re doing this whole new format that’s kind of like a variety show. We’re taking what we know—which is our live show. The way that we talk about being a woman who just happens to be a mom. So we talk a lot about lifestyle stuff. It’s not necessarily just parenting. It’s always about crypto. [Laughs.] 

00:16:17

Biz

Host

Just all about crypto, all the time.

00:16:19

Shayna

Guest

Just all about—some episode. Um, and so, uh, y’know, it—we are trying to create with Band of Mothers and with The Pump & Dump Show and with the podcast, like you’re saying. It’s not just a bunch of dude billionaires who acquired a big diaper company, y’know, throwing what they think is funny out to the masses. ‘Cause we—y’know, we’ve been put—we’ve been pigeonholed and put in those categories for so many years? People tried to throw us into Hollywood and we were like, “No thanks!” So, y’know, it’s—it is important that we all have a voice that we try to—that there be a lot more of us doing this. 

00:16:55

Biz

Host

Well let’s just jump—let’s use that as our segue into, yeah. We’ve all been doing this for about nine years. I feel like when we all started, there for sure wasn’t a live show. [Laughs.] And there wasn’t—there weren’t really any podcasts. It was the world at that time—if I remember correctly—was predominantly—and I love it. They had to call them “mom blogs.” They weren’t “blogs”! They were “mom blogs.”

00:17:23

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Shayna: Mommy. Mommy blogs. Yeah.

Tracey: Mommy blogs. Mommy blogs.

Biz: Mommy blogs! Yeah. Mommy blogs. Mom—

00:17:28

Biz

Host

Again, the use of the word “mom” as something lame—

00:17:33

Tracey

Guest

As something that has to be quantified. Y’know. Like a mom—I never say I’m a “mom-preneur.” I mean, why would I? 

00:17:42

Biz

Host

[Through laughter] Why would you do that? 

00:17:45

Tracey

Guest

I don’t know! But—

00:17:45

Biz

Host

A “mom-preneur.” That sounds dirty.

00:17:46

Tracey

Guest

—it’s constantly trending on Twitter! But I’m just like… is that different somehow? Did I miss the—did I miss the “mom-preneur” class? I’m just running a business, y’know?

00:17:54

Biz

Host

It’s just amazing that you can do it all and get paid less for it!

00:17:58

Shayna

Guest

That your husbands let you! Yeah! [Laughs.] 

00:17:59

Biz

Host

That you got permission to do it! I know! Y’know—okay. So that was how it started. And I think… we’ve both been in it a while. And so what I want us to talk about are like, how it’s changed or hasn’t changed. What has changed is I think people—more and more people are more comfortable talking about how hard it can be. That sort of like balance of, “It’s hard, but I still love it.” Right? It doesn’t—they don’t cancel each other out. So I think… that has become more acceptable. Which is—I mean, not 100%, but I think that’s nice. But it hasn’t—like, sometimes I’ll see it in ads? Where I’m like, “That is a believable ad.” And then there’s the ad of the mom in high heels whose kids have snuck a kitten home, and they’re trying to keep the kitten from the mom and litterbox and all this stuff and she’s just in heels sitting on the edge of her steps. And these are like a four-year-old and a six-year-old.

[Shayna laughs.] 

And I’m thinking, “This is not—like, whose house is this? Why are you in heels in the middle of the day at home? And you don’t know your kids just snuck a fucking cat in your house? You are going to be cleaning it up! This is a nightmare! So.”

00:19:13

Tracey

Guest

It must be a mute cat.

00:19:14

Biz

Host

I know! I was like, one that just shits roses all the time. I don’t know.

[Shayna laughs.] 

So it’s interesting because you guys are touching on so many different elements of media. What have you guys seen as mom-preneurs and—

00:19:29

Tracey

Guest

Stop it. 

00:19:32

Shayna

Guest

Y’know? The thing is, like—and Tracey can definitely elaborate more on this. Y’know, Biz, when you and I started comedy, YouTube didn’t even exist. Right?

00:19:39

Biz

Host

Yeah! Exactly! Exactly.

00:19:42

Shayna

Guest

So like, live comedy was our lifeblood. That felt so good. Y’know? [Laughs.] And then anyone—anyone—and we were in New York City, right? Anyone, anywhere, can now make a thirty-second video. And then everyone else in the business of entertainment got really fucking lazy. And went, “Oh, well these people in Bloomington Bumble-whatever—” Sorry, Bloomington. [Laughs.] 

00:20:10

Biz

Host

All Bloomingtons!

00:20:12

Tracey

Guest

Wherever you are.

00:20:14

Shayna

Guest

Sorry. I don’t know which Bloomington. Um, now they have better numbers than the people that just spent twenty years of their life selling tickets. 

[Biz laughs.] 

And now— [Laughs.] And so it’s just—everything turned on its head. Right? In the entertainment industry as a whole. But then in like the mom world—

00:20:30

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Shayna: It’s actually great ‘cause like—right!

Biz: Yeah! No one had done anything!

00:20:33

Shayna

Guest

And so all these moms are making a living on Instagram. And I’m so happy for them. But it fucked everything up. In the sense of reality. And, like, what’s real. And so the mom in the heels, she doesn’t exist. But women now were making a living off of portraying that that exists, and then fucking over other women. It’s like a very complicated…

00:20:57

Biz

Host

I mean, is it—is it that people who don’t take the risks and do the heels, do the perfect house, do the—like, everything’s clean all the time and everybody’s wearing matching clothes and things like this. Is that just where the money is? Is that like—I mean, are we getting screwed that people will invest in that and, once again, as women getting pigeonholed because, y’know, you wanna make money!

00:21:24

Tracey

Guest

Well let’s—let’s think of some—let’s talk about some positives here. Because I think… I think the—

00:21:30

Biz

Host

No! [Laughs.] 

[Shayna laughs.] 

I’m too riled up now! Go ahead.

00:21:35

Tracey

Guest

“Fuck everyone!” I think the internet and digital media for sure opened up opportunities for immensely creative and talented, well-spoken, good writers. Funny, artistic, creative people. Who would’ve never had a chance to express themselves on a larger playing field. To like, just open themselves to the world. And that, I think, is beautiful. And then I think everything got Americanized, and I use this term a lot. Like, we take one good idea—just in America—and then we just like vomit all over it, an then we just like wrap it in gold and then we just stick a pump in it and we just keep pumping it up until it’s too big to handle.

[Biz laughs.] 

And so what started with someone who—

00:22:21

Biz

Host

Like a uterus. [Laughs.] 

00:22:23

Tracey

Guest

Especially mine, which is why it had to be removed. That’s exactly what happened. [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

It just got so big, everyone was like, “It’s time to shut it down. Get it out.” You know, what started I think with someone who is really good taking photos and also loves to cook, making a beautiful blog—somehow along the way had to get concerned about pageviews and click-throughs. So now—as we all know—you can’t read a goddamn recipe in five minutes when your hands are covered in ground beef while the guests are coming in the door, because you have to scroll through an hour and a half of, y’know, editorial to get to the fucking recipe. And I think that’s transferred over if you take the mommy space. What started with women who truly do love to dress and match with their children? 

00:23:14

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz: Which is also totally awesome! Yes.

Tracey: That’s an aesthetic. That’s a thing.

00:23:17

Tracey

Guest

I thought, “I would die to be that mom.” I literally do not know where those clothes exist. Like that’s how far—I don’t even know where to buy those clothes if I wanted to do it. That’s not my thing. But I appreciate it. But it got so big, and then it got amplified with social media. That instead of just doing your thing and having followers enjoy your little quirky—if you wanna call it—your niche, everything had to get bigger and bigger. And instead of just one matching outfit a month—which is probably the normal amount of time to match with everyone in your family?

[Biz laughs.] 

It turned into twice a month. And then it turned into every week. And then it turned into the kids have to be, y’know, videotaped walking down this bucolic street going to school.

00:24:06

Shayna

Guest

Who is taking these pictures?

00:24:08

Biz

Host

Who is taking the pictures? ‘Cause I’m not in any pictures with my children. It’s me always holding glasses.

00:24:15

Tracey

Guest

And so it just—yeah! It just got too big! It’s just too much. And then I think we—we found this niche. Like, right when you guys came on. You guys started it. Where we were like, “Okay. This is hard. Let’s talk about it.” And that was good. And then The Pump & Dump came and we were like, “Let’s laugh about it!” And that was good. And now, everyone’s like, “Let’s just talk about how hard it is and how miserable we are all the time! Let’s only talk about how hard it is! And let’s do nothing positive!”

[Biz laughs.] 

And so now that’s a thing! Y’know? And then it was, “Let’s just be drunk all the time and talk about how hard it is.” Y’know?

[Multiple people laugh.] 

And [through laughter] like we—we just keep doing these swings. And we can’t just settle in. And now I think we’re in this space where it’s this… I think we’ve had this collective, y’know, spiritual thing that’s happened with the pandemic. People have really had to take a long look at their lives. They’ve had to face a lot of darkness. And everyone’s kind of gob smacked from it. And so now I think the vibe is, “Let’s just talk about how miserable we are all the time. Let’s talk about how victimized I am. Let’s talk about [through laughter] the drama.” All of which is also good! But it’s like we need to balance it. We need to be a little drunk. We need to be a little matchy-matchy. We need to be a little spiritual.

[Biz laughs.] 

And then we just need to shut the fuck up. That’s my take on the whole thing.

00:25:38

Biz

Host

Well the problem—I think what one of the causes of that swinging? Is, again, you have to go back I think—I feel like I’m in the middle of this, like, y’know, flashback to my Women’s Studies minor. Where I’m just like, “We gotta go back!” We gotta go back to this origin of… women being less than or women being pigeon—like, different ways… women have been manipulated. And for example, we’ve spoken a lot on this show about advertising and TV and magazines. And how robbed I feel of… like, I want it to be like The Brady Bunch. I wanna be in some fucking heels while my kids quietly sneak around with the cat.

[Shayna laughs.] 

And I am so disappointed that that’s not even close. To the broken and haggard experience that I find myself in a lot of times? And… that can lead to the self-doubt, which leads to the self-judgment, which then leads to the judging others. Which then leads to the, “Well, maybe I should start matching. Or looking. And then maybe I should be more of this. And more—” It’s like, how many different ways can we be separated as opposed to united? 

00:27:02

Tracey

Guest

And you—we forgot that piece. We forgot the piece of entitlement where people just—the internet just allowed—y’know, as theatre people we all know that there’s a fourth wall that you don’t break. And people who didn’t grow up performing don’t understand that that is—that this is all performative. And so they just take a semi-automatic and blow that fourth wall down—

[Biz laughs.] 

—and then just throw up all of their feelings and opinions onto strangers. With no consequence. 

00:27:36

Biz

Host

Right. There’s consequence, just not always to the person who’s doing the vomiting. Right? Like—

00:27:42

Tracey

Guest

Well that’s what I meant. No, there’s horrible consequences! [Laughs.] 

00:27:45

Biz

Host

Horrible consequences on the other end!

00:27:47

Tracey

Guest

Life-threatening consequence! But there’s this detachment. And so while blogging or YouTube has given all these creative people voices, comments have given a lot of angry people voices. A lot of people who aren’t heard. Who don’t feel seen. Who don’t get to have conversations day-to-day.

00:28:05

Shayna

Guest

Or like themselves.

00:28:07

Tracey

Guest

Or like themselves. And so they use the comment section to feel seen. And it’s just—if, y’know, I imagine… God—spirit—whoever—is just looking down and just being like, “Y’all have got to sort yourselves out. [Through laughter] Y’know, there’s just—"

00:28:23

Biz

Host

Stop commenting!

00:28:25

Tracey

Guest

“Isn’t this obvious what you’re doing?” [Laughs.] It’s so obviously not working! Y’know.

00:28:30

Shayna

Guest

But then there’s like the larger outside scope that is like the business side of it, right? Where then it doesn’t matter how many shit comments you made or how much damage that you’ve done if people are watching. That’s the new bar. And that bar affects people with real authentic voices like all of us that are trying to do this because we really, really love it and want to help moms. And so it’s just this really messed-up—

[Biz laughs.]

—situation, all because of… just the amount of access we have to understanding who’s watching. It’s—it’s wild.

00:29:08

Tracey

Guest

It’s actually all because of matching clothes.

[Shayna laughs.] 

00:29:10

Biz

Host

it is! It is. Let’s just put it off on that. By the way, if you’re really good at matching clothes, please send us a link to where we can figure out how to fucking do that? But like—okay. So—so not a lot’s changed or it’s changed, but it’s the same problem in a new—in a new matching outfit. Um, so that’s—

00:29:28

Tracey

Guest

Well I will interrupt and say I think—and Shay touched on this, too. I think mom blogging or the mom space has gotten massively corporatized. And so the big—there are massive, multi-multi-million-dollar media outlets now kind of calling the shots? And setting the bar for everyone. Because, like Shayna said, numbers are important. Views are important. And I get it, to a certain degree. But quality, originality, true creative expression, true original performance—those things, if not quantified by a million-plus views? Are seen as not having value. Because the corporate things can churn out a very run-of-the-mill essay about “mom life is hard” and get two million views. When someone else is trying really hard to just actually describe it in a way that’s much more, like, from the heart. And I think that’s a bummer.

00:30:32

Shayna

Guest

Those corporate entities that are sending the matchy-matchy outfits to people. [Laughs.] I mean, it all goes—y’know? Then it’s not even—it’s not even people who like that! They’re getting sent it and they have to put it on their kids and themselves because they’re getting a couple hundred bucks for it. And it’s just this really wonky—and again, this all started with me saying, “And then it’s so awesome that moms had this new way to make money and work!” Because they do! Now from home, they could do this thing that they’re being creative and they’re showing their kids. They’re sharenting. And they’re doing all this stuff—

00:31:03

Biz

Host

“Sharenting!” I am so—

00:31:05

Shayna

Guest

It’s a term. It is a term. 

00:31:06

Biz

Host

I have willfully ignored all parenting—it’s funny. I fucking hate parenting things? So like I never—unless it’s a book that somebody has been sent or whatever, I am so removed. Okay. “Sharenting.” Got it.

00:31:21

Shayna

Guest

Uh-huh. That’s the internet sharing of your kids. 

[Multiple people laugh.] 

00:31:28

Biz

Host

I’m only gonna share pictures of my kids when they’re in college. And I’m gonna go—I’m gonna go on their campus without them knowing about it? Right? And just be like, “Surprise! It’s your mom! Click!” 

[Shayna laughs.] 

And then just be like, “It’s going on the internet!” Right? “Do you mind if I post this?” Okay. So… it feels like an unbeatable trap. The idea of how do you then make money if you have found a place in which you can be authentic. We—for example, we’re very luck at One Bad Mother. We are a listener-supported show. And so when people come and offer sponsorships, we have every opportunity to say “no.” And we say no to multiple things. Because I’m like—like, that’s gross. That doesn’t feel genuine to who I think is listening. Sometimes I’m like, okay, yeah. Maybe somebody wants that. I’m fine talking about it. But a lot of times I’m like—y’know, like for example we don’t do weight-loss stuff. 

00:32:29

Tracey

Guest

We don’t either.

00:32:30

Biz

Host

We don’t do, like, y’know. Dental work. But y’know, anything which I think you should probably see a doctor, we’re not gonna play. 

[Multiple people laugh.] 

But that’s a gift. And it’s not normal. I mean, we were lucky to be involved with a group that already had that set up. Right? But a lot of people are doing this on their own. And… without, like, guilt should be taking whatever they can take ‘cause you wanna make that money! And not do that—ack! Blah, blah, blah! So—

00:33:01

Tracey

Guest

And it’s—and Shay and I have talked about this a lot. Like, y’know, when you—if you’re on a TV show, right? And an ad comes on, it doesn’t reflect on the actors who are in the TV show. If you’re doing news editorial and an ad comes on, it doesn’t reflect. But when it’s your voice and you’re saying, “This is amazing.” Which—y’know, is so funny to me, because those ads have been around since I was driving around in my dad’s Volvo listening to AM radio, wanting to gauge my eyes out from boredom.

[Biz laughs.] 

Listening to the show host talk about, y’know, the curtain maker down the street in downtown Denver. Y’know? Like, that’s been around forever. It’s nothing new. And there’s something very powerful—

00:33:43

Biz

Host

Fuck you, downtown curtain maker! [Laughs.] 

00:33:46

Tracey

Guest

[Laughs.] You’ve ruined my childhood!

00:33:49

Biz

Host

You’ve ruined my childhood!

00:33:51

Tracey

Guest

And there’s something really powerful about personal, y’know, endorsements. But I think you do have to be careful. Or you have to just—and this is the other thing. And this is, I think, a large conversation for a lot of things in life. But like—or you just have to trust that people use their own discernment and make the choices that are best for them based on the information that they’re given. And if we talk about a weight-loss thing—which we wouldn’t do, either, because it doesn’t align with our values—but if we did, and you go off and do it and have a miserable experience, is that my fault? I don’t know! If I told you to do it, it kind of is. If I told you I loved it and I never even tried it, then that really is. 

00:34:29

Biz

Host

So as entrepreneurs—as—

00:34:33

Shayna

Guest

Mom-preneurs. [Laughs.] 

00:34:34

Biz

Host

I know! I so tried not to say it! As—or I could’ve even gone with, “As women-preneurs.”

00:34:41

Shayna

Guest

Women-preneurs.

00:34:42

Tracey

Guest

Mom boss. It’s “mom boss.”

00:34:45

Biz

Host

Is it “mom boss”?

00:34:46

Shayna

Guest

Boobie-preneurs. Just—we’re ladies with boob. Boobie-preneurs.

00:34:48

Biz

Host

Boobie-preneurs. You have a period and you started a business! Are you a witch?

00:34:54

Tracey

Guest

How did you do it? How did you do it?

00:34:57

Biz

Host

I don’t know!

00:34:58

Shayna

Guest

Are you a witch?

00:34:59

Biz

Host

You are smart for a—I just now assume [through laughter] everything is just, “You’re a witch. That’s why.” So… as two people who are also women who are also moms—having those experiences—as all of those different things—running your own sort of little media empire there. What are you guidelines? Like, how… how have you found a balance? Or have you not found a balance quite yet? I mean, y’know.

00:35:28

Tracey

Guest

Yeah, it’s called “no advertisers.” [Laughs.] Just jokes.

00:35:31

Biz

Host

It’s called “no advertisers!” It’s called—yeah, exactly! [Laughs.] 

00:35:33

Tracey

Guest

Just jokes.

00:35:35

Shayna

Guest

I think back to like the social media part—I think that’s… in all honesty, been our biggest challenge. And we’ve finally in the past couple years had to just kind of accept that we just kind of suck at it. And only in the sense that—

00:35:50

Biz

Host

Yeah. We suck at it.

00:35:52

Shayna

Guest

—we don’t really… even when we’ve tried to put in the amount of effort that it might take? It’s really—I like to blame the actual apps. Like, the algorithms and the kind of things that they do to reward and punish people. ‘Cause that’s what they do, in case you guys don’t understand. 

[Biz laughs.] 

They— [Laughs.] 

00:36:12

Tracey

Guest

They’ve been punishing us since 2010.

[Multiple people laugh.] 

00:36:15

Shayna

Guest

They have. Your—people’s posts will get seen or not seen based on things that they do. So just in case that’s not clear to anybody listening? So people who have hundreds of thousands of followers have done a very good job following the rules or getting—doing—and it’s a lot of work. To make that happen. And a lot of that work is, like Tracey said, blowing out that fourth wall and just, y’know, vomiting your life out there. Which a lot of people are so good at, and a lot of people are not! And so we have been told time and time again to, y’know, “People wanna know you! They wanna see your day! They wanna see your kids!” And honestly? It’s never, ever gonna be in Tracey or my personality to be like—I mean, they just—they don’t wanna see us. [Laughs.] Believe me, you don’t! There’s nothing that fucking interesting! 

00:37:04

Biz

Host

I know. You’ll learn very quickly that this is not the life. You don’t want that window.

00:37:09

Shayna

Guest

Tracey—yeah. Tracey should go to bed at 7:30 ‘cause she’s insanely boring.

00:37:13

Tracey

Guest

I’m like—I mean— [Laughs.] 

00:37:15

Biz

Host

Biz is on her period. Again. And it’s a bad one! Right? Like—

00:37:18

Shayna

Guest

We talk about the things that we wanna talk about, and we just—at this age—I mean, we’re fucking 44 and 45 years old. What I don’t care that you tell me I have to do that. So—so we’re now kind of owning that, um, sure. We could potentially be much more successful in some other way if we had played that, honestly, that game. But the truth is, we do work really fucking hard! And we have great content! And I’m hoping that because—as Tracey said—like, there has been a shift into some more, like… y’know, what’s the word I’m looking for, Tracey? Like, more spiritual. More aligned. More, like, everyone’s kind of been through a hell of a lot and no one had it harder than moms. We’re just kind of hoping that if it’s that same “If you build it, they will come.” Like, let’s just keep doing what we do. Because at some point, Facebook has to implode. Right? At some point, these algorithms—these poor women who are working their asses off to meet these requirements; to get these likes; to get this engagement; to pay for fake followers. For all of the things that you have to really do? That people don’t know behind the scenes? It’s exhausting.

00:38:34

Biz

Host

It's already exhausting as parents. And as people. In the world. And… y’know, I’m with you. We are, y’know. We’re so bad at social media I just had to put out an apology for not posting anything about our shows for six weeks!

00:38:50

Tracey

Guest

I loved that, Biz, by the way. I was like—yes. Yeah.

00:38:53

Biz

Host

Because I was like, I just don’t wanna fucking be on social media! Like, I just—

00:38:57

Shayna

Guest

Well, and I didn’t see it, because you got punished! [Laughs.] 

00:39:01

Biz

Host

Because you weren’t on social— [Laughs.] I know! That’s right. 

00:39:02

Shayna

Guest

I follow you, but I never see your shit. Because—

00:39:06

Biz

Host

Well, that’s—

00:39:08

Tracey

Guest

Well she’s never posting, Shayna. 

[Biz laughs.] 

00:39:10

Shayna

Guest

I should’ve seen the one!

00:39:12

Biz

Host

Alright. Let’s wrap up on this. Here we go.

[Shayna laughs.] 

Are you ready? Now that we’ve—again—stated a lot of the things.

00:39:17

Tracey

Guest

Ruined our careers, collectively. Like, in fifteen minutes. [Laughs.] 

00:39:21

Biz

Host

We’ve stated a lot of opinions. Oh. What would be… the greatest mom-centered television show? Right? Like, every producer, every development company in town is just like, “Honest to god, we’re just gonna keep giving you money. Do whatever the fuck you want, ‘cause we trust you.” 

00:39:43

Shayna

Guest

Ha, ha, ha.

00:39:44

Biz

Host

What would that be?

00:39:45

Tracey

Guest

That question got me very happy inside. I have like a very glowy feeling.

00:39:50

Shayna

Guest

You know what it got me? It got me wanting… like, my dream scenario for this—‘cause like, y’know, people ask us about doing TV all the time and we’re always like, “Nope, nope, nope.” But my dream scenario for that? Like, if we had support and everything we wanted? Would be a writer’s room of all of my fucking favorite, hilarious moms.

00:40:07

Biz

Host

Favorite—I know. I always think about that, too. I’m like, “Are there any moms at these writing tables?” Sometimes I’m like, “Jesus! Steal! Steal! Steal the material from our show for god’s sakes!” I mean, like—

00:40:19

Tracey

Guest

There’s like a pregnant millennial that they count as the mom, and then everything else is like—

[Multiple people laugh.] 

That’s it.

00:40:26

Shayna

Guest

Yeah. Just this room full of fucking—everyone who has the same opinions about everything that’s happened in the last nine years like us? Just going, “Alright. What are we gonna do?”

00:40:35

Biz

Host

One voice. [Laughs.] 

00:40:36

Shayna

Guest

“What are we gonna do?” Y’know? 

00:40:39

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz: I know. There’s gonna be so many moms. Yeah, call us! We’re ready! 

Shayna: It’s possible. Call us. We—we know a lot of moms.

00:40:44

Biz

Host

We do! We have a lot of insight into the parenting experience. Everybody? You know how to use the internet and you know how to look things up. But as always—in the show notes—we are gonna have links to where you can find out all about The Pump & Dump. Plus—‘cause I know a lot of our listeners have come out to see you guys back before the COVID. But you can get that special, special Shayna and Tracey vibe and little taste—a little taste—on their podcast, the Band of Mothers podcast. And it’s—y’know, as always, go support people who are trying really hard! To do the right thing!

00:41:26

Tracey

Guest

And you can get it sometimes on Instagram! So there ya go!

00:41:27

Biz

Host

And sometimes they’re on Instagram! That’s—that’s our social media, uh, like, y’know, whatever. Venn diagram. Sometimes… on social media.

00:41:36

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Tracey: If we can make a promise—if we can make a—if we can make a promise—

Shayna: Please follow us on Instagram. [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

00:41:40

Tracey

Guest

—it’s that you won’t get bombarded with too many posts. That, we can assure you.

00:41:44

Shayna

Guest

However, next week, I think Tracey and I should wear matching outfits. [Laughs.] 

00:41:47

Biz

Host

Yes! All week. Can I—wait. Let me know what you’re gonna wear, and I will also wear one? And then we will do some sort of weird shot of us all—

00:41:56

Shayna

Guest

Can it just be all black? [Laughs.] 

00:41:57

Biz

Host

Yeah. 

00:41:58

Tracey

Guest

Why do I—why do I actually really love the idea of all moms wearing the same thing? Like, I can get behind that like a thousand percent. That is—

00:42:05

Shayna

Guest

It’s our black day. [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

00:42:09

Biz

Host

“Moms would walk off day, except, y’know. Ya got fucking shit to do.”

00:42:13

Tracey

Guest

“Sit on the couch day.” We’re just—wear black until we get some rights. Until we get some respect, I’m just gonna wear black.

[Multiple people laugh.] 

00:42:20

Shayna

Guest

“Mom has a cold day and we all just pretend we’re sick.” “Mom has diarrhea day.”

00:42:24

Biz

Host

We’re all gonna dress alike. Which means we’re all gonna just stay in bed all day. [Laughs.] And somebody else has got this. That’s—that’s what we’re gonna do.

00:42:34

Tracey

Guest

I’m here for it. Sign me up.

00:42:37

Biz

Host

Alright. Done. Well we’ll make sure we let everybody know what to wear on “dress like a mom day.” 

[Shayna laughs.] 

Coming to you.

00:42:43

Tracey

Guest

Dot-com.

00:42:45

Biz

Host

Coming to you much later than a person good on social media would bring it to you. So look for this in like a couple months when one of us remembers. 

00:42:53

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz: Thank you guys! [Laughs.] 

Tracey: When Biz apologies.

00:42:55

Biz

Host

When I apologize. Again. I’m sorry! I’m just trying to keep it together! Shayna and Tracey, you’re doing such a wonderful job. And I really appreciate you guys coming on, and I probably could start getting weepy. Both because I’m tired, and I love you. And that combination usually equates to a breakdown of some kind.

[Shayna laughs.] 

So thank you for putting out there into the world what you put out there. And everybody, go support these two amazing people. 

00:43:27

Shayna

Guest

Thank you, Biz. We love you. Thanks for having us.

00:43:29

Tracey

Guest

Thank you, Biz. We love you so much.

00:43:31

Biz

Host

Yay! Alright! Byeeee!

00:43:32

Tracey

Guest

Byeee!

00:43:34

Music

Music

“Ones and Zeroes” by “Awesome.” Steady, driving electric guitar with drum and woodwinds.

[Music fades out.]

00:43:51

Music

Promo

Inspirational keyboard music plays in background.

00:43:52

Biz

Promo

One Bad Mother is supported in part by Dipsea. You know what I’m gonna say. Everyone needs an escape, but those can be hard to come by right now. Enter Dipsea. And I know that I am reading some copy right now? But here comes my favorite part, because I love it! Let yourself get lost in a world where good things happen and where your pleasure is the only priority! Boom! Enough said! Dipsea is an audio app full of short, sexy stories designed to turn you on. And again, one of my favorite things is it’s very easy to navigate and select the things that you like and that are in your comfort zone. For listeners of the show, Dipsea is offering an extended 30-day free trial when you go to DipseaStories.com/badmother. That’s 30 days of full access for free when you go to D-I-P-S-E-A-Stories.com/badmother. DipseaStories.com/badmother.

[Music fades out.]

00:44:59

Theresa

Host

Hey, you know what it’s time for! This week’s genius and fails! This is the part of the show where we share our genius moment of the week, as well as our failures, and feel better about ourselves by hearing yours. You can share some of your own by calling 206-350-9485. That’s 206-350-9485.

00:45:20

Biz

Host

Genius… fail time. Genius me… me!

00:45:25

Clip

Clip

[Dramatic, swelling music in background.]

Biz: Wow! Oh my God! Oh my God! I saw what you did! Oh my God! I’m paying attention! Wow! You, mom, are a genius. Oh my God, that’s fucking genius!

00:45:38

Biz

Host

Okay! I will genius you! Here is my genius. I can’t remember if I have mentioned this on the show before, but Stefan and I, last year, after our anniversary, decided that we were not looking forward to the either traditional or modern gift traditions of anniversaries. That were to come. I think it’s our thirteenth anniversary and I think it’s something like, y’know. Linen or tissue or something? And I was like, eh. Anyway. So we decided we were gonna come up with our own themes for anniversaries. This was our first year for a themed anniversary. And because it is our thirteenth anniversary, it’s so clearly a ghost-iversary. [Laughs.] Yes! So this Sunday, we will be giving each other gifts that are ghost-related. Which is very exciting. It was actually not a hard decision to not go on eBay and buy a haunted object. Because I don’t want a haunted object. I don’t want a real ghost for my [through laughter] ghost-iversary. I have plenty of those with me all the time. I carry my own ghosts. But I am looking forward to seeing what Stefan has for me, and I am very excited about what I have for Stefan. And next week, I’ll tell ya all about it. But anyway, we are genius for breaking with tradition and making it a little fun for ourselves. Woo! 

00:47:15

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

Hey, Biz and Theresa! This is a genius. This is a very tired genius because I am tired of cleaning and then turning around and having the house be a shitshow again. I’m tired of cooking for two picky kids and a husband who can’t eat, like, any of the things. I am tired of my part-time higher-ed job that I adore, but pays me next to nothing. I am tired of all of this COVID and political—just, craziness that just—where is common sense? And I’m tired of having to decide whether or not I should cut my family out because they just see things completely differently than me. And I’m just—I’m tired. I’m so tired. But today, for really the first time in a really long time, I truly believe that I’m this tired because I’m doing such a fucking good job. I’m just—

00:48:18

Biz

Host

Yes!

00:48:19

Caller

Caller

I’m doing everything that I can and I’m doing it as best as I can and today I’m giving myself the grace to just know that I’m doing a really good job. And everyone out there who is just also feeling so tired—you guys are doing such a good job. And I am calling it a night and I’m watching Bachelor in Paradise because I deserve to. Because I am doing a really, really fucking good job. Thank you so much for the show. You guys are doing a good job, too.

00:48:49

Biz

Host

Oh my god. This may be the greatest genius of all time. The first time I was listening to this call, I was like, “…and? Where are we going with this?” And then you just brought it home with the “I realize I’m tired because I’m doing such a great job!” You are doing such a great job! This is the greatest spin put to tired that I have ever heard. And if this is true, I am also doing a remarkable job. In fact, now I think—y’know how when we were running into people when the pandemic started and you’re like, “Hey, how’s it going?” And somebody says, “Okay.” We now know that “okay” means… basically hanging on by a thread. Eternally crumbling. Tired and haggard. Broken and haggard. I like now thinking that if I say, “I’m doing a good job,” it means “I am… so tired I can’t feel my bones.” [Laughs.] I love it! I love this so much! It’s—I’m sorry. I’m gonna add one more thing, and that is just this like—this is the perfect One Bad Mother different ends—like, different parts of like the different messages that we discovered over the years coming full circle and eating itself! [Laughs.] Accepting that we’re tired and accepting that that can mean we’re doing a good job. I love you. You are doing amazing. Failures.

00:50:24

Clip

Clip

[Dramatic orchestral music plays in the background.]

Theresa: [In a voice akin to the Wicked Witch of the West] Fail. Fail. Fail. FAIL!

[Timpani with foot pedal engaged for humorous effect.]

Biz: [Calmly] You suck!

00:50:30

Biz

Host

Fail me, me. Well, alright. I will. So… to be honest, maybe I’ve talked about this one before, too. Who knows, guys? The fail is gonna be that it hasn’t changed whatever I am about to tell you. Our front door—right around the time the pandemic started—it’s like one of those doors that opens—y’know, you push the thumb down? It’s like you’re giving the door a handshake and then you gotta push the thumb latch. That opens your front door. And ours just—you can push it, but it’s—something’s happening in which the mechanism isn’t coming all the way inside, so, y’know, you’re jamming on the door. It’s like it’s locked but it’s not. So… all—like, guys, this is—what? Is it 19 months? We haven’t been able to open our front door easily. The children can for sure not open it. I can now get it open maybe ten percent of the time. Stefan manages to get it open, but with great force. And so lots of times somebody’ll just ring the doorbell ‘cause they got locked outside. [Laughs.] But my fail—well, there’s two fails here. One, yeah! We hadn’t gotten that fixed. It’s a big problem that should be address. Haven’t done that. The other fail is I’ve finally did the thing where I was about to leave and I was gonna be going out the front door ‘cause that was closer to the car. I had locked all the other doors in the house, and then I went out and closed the door and realized I didn’t have my key. And what sucks about this is I know that I wasn’t locked out. I just couldn’t get in the house! [Laughs.] Through the door! That was very… upsetting. So… winning.

00:52:16

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

I have a fail! A pretty funny one. So I went to pick up my Clicklist order and I check in on the app. I’m on my way. And I get the drive-through pharmacy to get my kid’s prescription because she has an ear infection again, and then I go and I pull into the Clicklist pickup spot and I type that I’m in spot number seven and I sit and I wait and I see the three cars that were here ahead of me get their groceries, and then I see a car that got here after me get their groceries, and then I look at the time and I realize that I’ve been sitting there for twenty fucking minutes. And yeah. I didn’t hit submit.

[Biz laughs.] 

00:52:59

Biz

Host

I… love you. And this is such a weird, new sort of modern reality problem. Right? The click, but you order. You submit for your groceries. And then you go and you park and somebody’s gonna bring it to you and that’s so nice. And I gotta imagine that was pretty horrible probably sitting there for twenty minutes waiting for your order. [Laughs.] And not getting it. ‘Cause I know—if you’re like me, there’s a little window of pure indignance. When you’re like, “How come they got theirs after it was clearly supposed to—oh. Oh. Well that’s not—” You are doing a horrible job trying to make life a lot easier for yourself. [Laughs.] Oh well! Click! 

00:53:51

Music

Music

“Mom Song” by Adira Amram. Mellow piano music with lyrics.

You are the greatest mom I’ve ever known.

I love you, I love you.

When I have a problem, I call you on the phone.

I love you, I love you.

[Music fades out.]

00:54:16

Music

Promo

Cheerful ukulele with whistling plays in background.

00:54:17

Biz

Promo

One Bad Mother is supported in part by StoryWorth. Even if you’re super close with your relatives, there are aspects of their life that don’t come up in day-to-day conversation. If you wanna learn more about them, gift them with StoryWorth. We talk a lot on this show about being a Self, and sometimes we can forget that the people in our lives—like our mom or our dad or our grandparents or our aunts or uncles or even our siblings—are also Selves. [Laughs.] StoryWorth is an online service that helps a loved one share stories through thought-provoking questions about their memories and personal thoughts. After one year, StoryWorth will compile all the stories—including photos—into a beautiful keepsake book that ships for free. StoryWorth is a meaningful gift you and your family can treasure forever. Get started right away with no shipping required by going to StoryWorth.com/badmother. You’ll get $10 off your first purchase. That’s StoryWorth.com/badmother for $10 off. 

[Music fades out.]

00:55:29

Promo

Clip

Music: Strumming banjo.

Announcer: Welcome!

Four voices overlapping: Thank you. Thanks. No problem. Thank you!

Announcer: These are real podcast listeners, not actors! What do you look for in a podcast?

Speaker 1: Reliability is big for me.

Speaker 2: Power.

Speaker 3: I’d say comfort?

Announcer: What do you think of this? 

[Sound of something crashing.]

Three voices in unison: Oohhh!

Speaker 2: That’s Jordan, Jesse, Go!. 

Speaker 1: Jordan, Jesse, Go!?

Speaker 2: They came out of the… floor?
[Thumping sound.]

Speaker 2: And down from the ceiling?

Speaker 3: That can’t be safe.

Speaker 4: I’m upset. Can we go now?

Announcer: Soon.

Music: Cheerful, jangly music plays. 

Announcer: Jordan, Jesse, Go!—a real podcast. 

[Music fades out.]

00:56:06

Promo

Clip

Music: “Baby You Change Your Mind” by Nouvellas.

Rileigh Smirl: Hello! I’m Rileigh Smirl.

Sydnee McElroy: I’m Sydnee McElroy.

Teylor Smirl: And I’m Teylor Smirl.

Rileigh: And we host Still Buffering, a cross-generational guide to the culture that made us.

Sydnee: Every week, we share media that made us who we are. Things like Archie comics!

Teylor: Sailor Moon.

Rileigh: And lots of Taylor Swift.

Teylor: And now that Rileigh’s an adult, it comes with 100% more butts.

Rileigh: And now I am totally comfortable with it.

Sydnee: So, check out new episodes of Still Buffering every Thursday on MaximumFun.org. 

Teylor: Butts, butts, butts. Join in, Rileigh. Butts, butts, butts, butts.

Rileigh: Butts, butts, butts, butts, butts.

Sydnee: Butts, butts, butts, butts, butts.

[Rileigh laughs and the music fades out.]

00:56:48

Biz

Host

Alright, everybody. It is time… to listen… to a mom have a breakdown. 

00:56:56

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

Hey! This is a rant. I’m pregnant. I’m about… 23 weeks pregnant at this point? Super excited to be pregnant. Happy to be pregnant. It’s been a tough pregnancy. Found out that baby boy has a cleft lip and cleft palette and minor heart defects. And we know that there is a chance that there are other things that we may not know about until he is born. And it’s just… it’s been a lot. But one of the—that’s not what I’m actually ranting about, actually. [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

One of the few small things that has brought me a lot of joy? Is I know what we’re going to name him. We’re going to name him Francis Damien. And I love that name so much. And it makes me so happy. But I don’t feel like I can tell anyone the name. Because I’ve tried to casually bring up both of those names in conversations when people ask? And people are just assholes about names!

[Biz laughs.] 

They just are. Every time I mention “Damien,” somebody talks about a Damien that they knew that was like an actual demon. Or like seemed like a demon or looked like a demon or whatever. And everybody has something bad to say about Damien. And when I brought up Francis to the ultrasound tech, she was like, “Oh, I bet your husband doesn’t like that one!”

00:58:32

Biz

Host

Oh my god! [Laughs.] 

00:58:34

Caller

Caller

I’m like, “What does that mean?” And why—I have had one friend who I told those names to and she was like, “Wow. Those are beautiful names.” And that’s all I fucking wanna hear! I’m… I’ve got too many other things going on right now. I just want to be able to enjoy this small part of naming my child. And really loving that name. And I feel like I can’t tell anyone because I’m so tired of people responding in shitty ways. If you’ve got opinions about it, that’s fine. I have opinions about people’s kids’ names. I get it. We all do. 

[Biz laughs.] 

But keep it to yourself! Go talk to your partner about it or something. Just—but not to me. Don’t tell me. Let me enjoy this one small thing about my pregnancy. Because the rest is really hard right now. And even if it wasn’t, don’t be an asshole. Stop being an asshole to pregnant women. Anyway. That’s my rant. And I feel better now. You’re doing a great job, and so am I. Thanks. Bye.

00:59:48

Biz

Host

Oh my god. I love you so much. Maybe we should just change the name of this show to Stop Being an Asshole to Pregnant Women. [Laughs.] Okay. First of all, you’re doing an amazing job. Second, everything about this call and your response to—from describing the, like, craziness that is going on to how people are responding to the name—and to how much you love that name? All of this—all of this—all of this attitude, this whole thing that you have presented? The main thought in my head was, “This person is gonna be such a kickass parent.” [Laughs.] You are gonna be such a great mom to this kid! Whose name will be Francis Damien. Which is the most beautiful and literary-sounding epic name that I have ever heard. And I agree. What is up with the name shame, guys? Like, this is such a crazy—it's so… it’s so insane. Like, as soon as—like, right now, y’know, like— [Laughs.] “Oh, really hate that your name is Karen. You’re gonna name your kid Karen?!” Look, I get it. Every generation, something comes along and really ruins a name. [Laughs.] For people. I just—I feel like no one—I mean, unless you are very, “Wooo! I am good at making decisions at the last minute!” I feel like we should assume that people have put a great deal of thought into the name they’ve chosen for their child. Also, we should assume that they have spoken with their partner if they are in a partnered relationship about this name. I know that if it was a name that my partner didn’t like, I’d probably lead with that. “Oh my god, Stefan hates this name but I love it. It’s… bleh, bleh, bleh.” I don’t know. I don’t know. Names are clearly weird in our house at this stage. But I— [Laughs.] I’m so sorry! That you’re—everybody, we all gotta try a little harder with this. Okay? And, y’know, sometimes we can be so removed from this part of pregnancy for people that we just kind of forget that it’s a thing we shouldn’t say. We shouldn’t respond. And I also love that you—I was thinking the same thing. You say, “That’s a beautiful name” and then you go home and you make fun of it to your partner or to your friend or on the internet! I don’t care! But you—all you’re supposed to do is say to this woman, “That is a beautiful name.” And just to circle back to the beginning, that is a lot that you are going through with this pregnancy. I wanna assure you that you’re not alone and that all the feelings that you are having that I’m sure range from one extreme to another? Are valid. And you are remarkable and I hope that you’ve got support and friends that you feel safe talking to about the stuff that you’re going through right now. And if you don’t? Come on over to the One Bad Mother page! I’m sure we’ve got a subgroup for you. [Laughs.] You are doing an amazing job. Guys? This felt like one of those weird unicorn shows in which sort of once again, a lot of the themes we touch on here at One Bad Mother all sort of… came to the forefront today. Not only the fact that we’re all tired. That’s a standard theme. But that we’re still doing a good job? That tired doesn’t mean doing a bad job? Tired means doing a good job? And I think also the core is we need to be supporting each other. We need to not let media make us feel bad or feel judged. We need to remember that we have the power to step away from the things that make us feel bad about the job we are doing. And just—if you can’t say something nice, don’t say something at all. Unless it’s against the patriarchy. [Laughs and claps.] Guys? I love you. You’re all doing an amazing job. I will talk to you next week. Byeeee!

01:04:40

Music

Music

“Mama Blues” by Cornbread Ted and the Butterbeans. Strumming acoustic guitar with harmonica and lyrics.

I got the lowdown momma blues

Got the the lowdown momma blues

Gots the lowdown momma blues

The lowdown momma blues. 

Gots the lowdown momma blues

Got the lowdown momma blues

You know that’s right.

[Music fades somewhat, plays briefly in background of dialogue.]

01:05:04

Biz

Host

We’d like to thank MaxFun; our producer, Gabe Mara; our husbands, Stefan Lawrence and Jesse Thorn; our perfect children, who provide us with inspiration to say all these horrible things; and of course, you, our listeners. To find out more about the songs you heard on today’s podcast and more about the show, please go to MaximumFun.org/onebadmother. For information about live shows, our book and press, please check out OneBadMotherPodcast.com.

01:05:32

Theresa

Host

One Bad Mother is a member of the Maximum Fun family of podcasts. To support the show go to MaximumFun.org/donate.

[Music continues for a while before fading out.]

01:05:56

Music

Transition

A cheerful ukulele chord.

01:05:57

Speaker 1

Guest

MaximumFun.org.

01:05:58

Speaker 2

Guest

Comedy and culture.

01:05:59

Speaker 3

Guest

Artist owned—

01:06:00

Speaker 4

Guest

—Audience supported.