TRANSCRIPT One Bad Mother Episode 419: I Can’t Wait To Show My Kids This Movie: The Sequel! with jarrett hill and Tre’vell Anderson

00:00:00

Biz Ellis

Host

Hi. I’m Biz.

00:00:01

Theresa Thorn

Host

And I’m Theresa.

00:00:02

Biz

Host

Due to the pandemic, we bring you One Bad Mother straight from our homes—including such interruptions as: children! Animal noises! And more! So let’s all get a little closer while we have to be so far apart. And remember—we are doing a good job.

00:00:20

Music

Music

“Summon the Rawk” by Kevin MacLeod. Driving electric guitar and heavy drums.

[Continues through dialogue.]

00:00:24

Biz

Host

This week on One Bad Mother—I can’t wait to show my kids this movie: the sequel! We continue our discussion with jarrett hill and Tre’vell Anderson of the podcast FANTI about navigating past and present media with a critical lens. Plus, Biz hates summer!

00:00:41

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz and caller: Woo!

00:00:43

Caller

Caller

Hey, Biz! I am just calling with a check-in. Because I’m really feeling happy and need someone to celebrate with.

[Biz laughs.] 

My two-year-old had her first day of day camp this week and it’s her first time going to any kind of school or camp or anything completely by herself. And I was an anxious wreck because I messed up the scheduling and I couldn’t be there to drop her off and her dad—like, her dad did a great job of drop-off, obviously. But it felt like I should be there. I don’t know. And so I was so anxious all morning. And then when I went to pick her up, she was so happy? And she had done so well and had so much fun. And had such a good time. And her teachers were saying how impressed they were with her.

[Biz laughs.] 

And when I put her in the car and was asking about her day, one of the first things she did was she looked at me and she said, “My teachers love me.” And I just… also wanna thank teachers?

[Biz laughs.] 

For loving my baby. And like… I just—I’m so happy. And I’m going to need this preschool now to come out with a K-12 program because I don’t wanna send her anywhere else. But anyway. I just needed to celebrate. Thanks, Biz. You’re doing a great job. And so am I. Bye.

00:02:03

Biz

Host

Woo! That… is woo-worthy! That is a great check-in. And I am celebrating with you. I am—[singing] boop, boop, boop-boop, boop, woo! [Regular voice] I am doing the celebrating happy first day of preschool… independent child off—away from you—day. Yeah. Of course it’s stressful. And I think secretly there is a hidden genius in mis-scheduling. Because a, it let your partner shine when it came to drop-off, and two, it just… I don’t know. I don’t know! I always found the drop-off like, “Ahh!” And I am with you on that great feeling, whether it’s preschool or a friend’s house. First time they go over to a friend’s house. Summer camp. School. Whatever. That moment where you realize, A, they’re okay. And B, that other people will also care for and love your child. In support of you. And that is really nice to know. And I’m with you. I cry all the time when I think about teachers. So you—[Laughs.] You are doing a remarkable job all around. Good job. And obviously, that’s gonna take us right into—the thank-you’s!

00:03:38

Music

Music

Heavy electric guitar and driving percussion overlaid with “Ohh, oh-oh, oh-oh” and “Hey-ey-ey-ey-ey-ey” lyrics.

00:03:52

Biz

Host

Well let’s just go right in with teachers. We’re all crying right now. Teachers! Thank you for being nice to our children! Teachers? Maybe school has started. Maybe school is just about to start. I don’t know if we give enough credit and insight to the fact that in many cases, no one has really set foot on a campus in, like, almost… two full school years? Or like a whole schoolyear and a half? There are things that were put up on the walls in 2019. Right? I mean, it’s—no one’s paying to have that place cleaned while they’re gone! And I am just saying that I see you in terms of whatever strangeness you are coming back to before school starts. So thank you, and I know especially in most situations there’s not a huge budget for teachers. In their schools. [Laughs.] Just—my mind is blowing. And so I know you’re doing a lot of this out of your own pocket. And I just want you to know that I see you and I appreciate you. And… this is a really difficult time to be a teacher and in education and I… just want you to know that… we really thank you. 

Medical professionals? God, I am so sorry that there is no break. That there was like this little window of, “Oh, maybe we’re headed towards a break.” And now in many of our states, the numbers in COVID have really shot through the roof. And you’re being asked to work nonstop, whether that is as a doctor or somebody who keeps the facility safe and clean. Whether that’s people who are doing insurance and data entry. I mean, you’re—you’re being pushed above and beyond. I was listening to a story today with a chaplain from—a hospital chaplain. And I thank you, to all of you who work in hospitals. As volunteers or as chaplain or as rabbis. Because in a lot of cases, you are our only contact. Because we can’t be there. So thank you. I see you. Thank you. 

And, as always, thank you to just everybody who is out there making it so that the world is even remotely—remotely normal feeling. Thank you to everybody who created vaccines and continue to give vaccines. And continue to help make it so that people who have been given misinformation and/or cannot access vaccines for any variety of reasons, helping them to access them. That is major work, and I appreciate it. And speaking of people who may have a hard time accessing it—I want to give a special thank-you shoutout to people who work with or volunteer with the homeless population in our country. We had a problem before the pandemic with people not having access to living spaces. And with the pandemic, that number has increased. And I think that there are people out there every day who are assisting those who are in need and giving them access to the vaccines and to masks. And to clean water. Safe places to use the bathroom. All those sorts of things. Thank you. That is a really hard job, and I appreciate it.

00:07:58

Biz

Host

So—how am I? Well, maybe you can hear it in the sound of my voice. I fucking hate summer. Guys? Some of you are saying, “Biz? Summer? Summer’s over! School started!” Uh, not here! Not my—not my school! Not the school that my kids go to! It doesn’t start until, like, September 8^th. That feels like forever. It’s three more weeks. It’s like—two and a half. We’re in August and there are no camps and there are no nothing and last year we were in a pandemic so everybody was trapped and we had all gotten into that, like, “Oh, we’re all at home!” zone. 

Now? Stefan’s going back to the office on some days. Some days he’s working remotely. The kids are both home and I—there’s nowhere to take them. And if you’ve been listening to this podcast for nine years, you will remember that I—I don’t do camp mom. I’m not good at that. And as I’ve gotten older, I’ve gotten even worse at it. I’m like—this is—camp mom is essentially, “How many hours of Switch games can we play, and how many hours of Ninjago or Craig of the Creek—” that’s the new one around here “—we watch?” And the answer is: a lot. The answer is, so much I don’t think I should tell Stefan. [Laughs.] That is—aaagh! By Wednesday I was already just like, “Fuck everything. I don’t even wanna parent anymore! I can’t do it! I just wanna turn the television on and make it all go away!” 

Which ties in nicely to what we are going to do today, which is pick up the first-ever part two of an interview! We’ve never done a part two. But in talking with jarrett hill and Tre’vell Anderson of FANTI—that podcast—that discussion went on and on! Because I was having such a good time talking with them and we were really talking about… stuff that I’m not sure how to navigate! Like navigating old media that I really liked that I wanna share with my kids that now I’m like, “Well, maybe that’s not the right thing to do anymore!” And actually much deeper questions than just that. So with all that said, we are going to get back in to that discussion with jarrett hill and Tre’vell Anderson.

00:10:29

Music

Music

Banjo strums; cheerful banjo music continues through dialogue.

00:10:30

Theresa

Host

Please—take a moment to remember: If you’re friends of the hosts of One Bad Mother, you should assume that when we talk about other moms, we’re talking about you.

00:10:37

Biz

Host

If you are married to the host of One Bad Mother, we definitely are talking about you.

00:10:41

Theresa

Host

Nothing we say constitutes professional parenting advice.

00:10:44

Biz

Host

Biz and Theresa’s children are brilliant, lovely, and exceedingly extraordinary.

00:10:48

Theresa

Host

Nothing said on this podcast about them implies otherwise.

[Banjo music fades out.] 

[Biz, jarrett, and Tre’vell repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss the weekly topic.]

00:10:55

Biz

Host

As a parent—I had a—an old high school friend of mine was on this show recently. They do—they write young adult novels. And they’re all centered around gay men going through their teens. Young adult, y’know, discovering. He was gay. We grew up in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. And as you can imagine, there was not a single role model or person that—I mean, he and I were talking about that. And I was like, “Oh my god, you’re—yeah! There was no teacher! There was no kid who had two moms or two dads.” None of that was there. And that is… not even close to the experience. And I say this because it used to be you had to search for books. You had to search for shows. You had to search for music. And now… because of the hyper-focused, like, some of these lanes, y’know… 

I grew up in a house where no one said I couldn’t watch Diff’rent Strokes or I couldn’t watch What’s Happening!!. Right? That was not my house. So here, it’s also not our house that my kids can’t access—it’s like the books. It’s like, y’know, you need diversity on your shelves so that your kids are already exposed to diversity. And… the same goes with TV. So my kid, who wants to only watch all things gay, trans, whatever—they have just so many more outlets. And they get so excited when they see it. They get to come in and be like, y’know, “Steven Universe!” And like—all of these, “There’s a character in this book that’s this! There’s a character in this manga that’s this!” And I just think that’s so fucking awesome!

00:12:38

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz: I just wish there weren’t the other assholes out there.

jarrett: Well, I—I—I’m completely with you.

Tre’vell: That part. 

00:12:42

jarrett hill

Guest

I’m completely with you. I think that there’s something really fantastic about having a niche that is being super-served. Right? IN the ways that we can see a full network devoted to, y’know, insert-demographic-group-here. I think the challenge becomes—if we think about it from the lens of social media. Right? So if I get onto my social media—if I go and start scrolling through Twitter? 

00:13:05

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz: Ugh. Sorry.

jarrett: I’m—it’s very likely that—I know, right?

[Multiple people laugh.] 

00:13:08

jarrett

Guest

As I start scrolling through Twitter, I’m gonna start seeing themes of conversations that are happening. Right? Whether it’s about something that’s trending from a TV show or some new music just dropped or there’s a new music video or, y’know, whatever it is. Right? And I’m gonna get this impression from my Twitter feed that everyone is talking about X thing. But if I were to log into your Twitter feed, Liz—god knows what we would find, right? 

00:13:33

Biz

Host

Not a lot! ‘Cause I hate social media.

[All laugh.] 

You would find a tweet from eight years ago!

00:13:41

jarrett

Guest

But if I was looking at the people that you chose to follow, right? They would probably be different people than I did. And so you would have a different impression of what everyone is talking about in the world. And we all kind of exist in these bubbles that we are creating on our social media, whether it’s Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, what have you. Or TikTok. And so as we’re kind of creating those bubbles, it’s a safe space for us. Right? Because a lot of the times we’re seeing people that agree with the things that we’re thinking about or feel similar things that we feel. Right? But then it’s also kind of putting us in silos and when we look at the polarization of our country right now—if we think about politics, ‘cause I’m always thinking about politics—we see so many people who have—

00:14:20

Biz

Host

I’m sorry.

[Tre’vell laughs.]

00:14:22

jarrett

Guest

I know. [Laughs.] Listen. There’s therapy for that. But like, we see—

00:14:26

Biz

Host

I know! [Laughs.] I’m in it!

00:14:29

jarrett

Guest

We see all these silos of people who have a different politic or a different worldview, and it is fully supported and energized and connected because they all—we all have these worlds that we’re kind of creating. And there’s something really beautiful about it, but there’s also something challenging about it, too.

00:14:44

Biz

Host

But can’t you… I mean, the challenge is the isolating. Right? Is the isolating you in your silo, whether you are—whether you have been underserved up-to-date and now you get it, or you’re just a complete nightmare and you’re gonna live in the—so that’s the—that’s the down. But the up is—if you are willing—if you want to make sure that you are being exposed to a variety of things, having all these niches allows you to, y’know, travel through it. I remember when Queer Eye came out for the first time a hundred thousand years ago, I was just like, weeping! I’d never write people a letter and I wrote them a letter and I was just like, “I hope you understand how important the thing is that you’re doing.” Right? Like, “You’re getting a whole bunch of people who’ve never been around anybody who’s gay. Right? And only have horrible stereotypes to go off of getting to see the kindness, the sensitivity—and people get to see people change when it comes to their acceptance.” Right? So you get to—having more out there, I think, can help. It seems like the question is, “How do you help the world navigate—pick up all the channels, not just the one that interests them?” Sorry, I will have to say that Tre’vell had another bird in the room.

[Tre’vell laughs.]

So I’m gonna—I have to let—sorry, Tre’vell, there was another bird! In Tre’vell’s room.

00:16:18

Tre’vell Anderson

Guest

[Laughs.] So I… I don’t necessarily disagree with what y’all are saying.

[Biz laughs.] 

00:16:25

jarrett

Guest

So can we pause? Tre’vell, before you make your point, the original show that we pitched was called I Don’t Disagree because it’s something we say to each other all the time. And that was the show that they were like, “Nah, this ain’t it.” 

[Tre’vell laughs.]

We always end up saying this back and forth to each other. No, go ahead.

00:16:39

Biz

Host

No, I actually—I love it. Because it’s the same thing with parenting. Where it’s like, “Oh, we didn’t agree on anything on how we do that. But did it work for you?”

00:16:46

Tre’vell

Guest

But it worked, right?

[jarrett laughs.] 

00:16:49

Biz

Host

That’s all that matters!

00:16:50

jarrett

Guest

Right.

00:16:51

Tre’vell

Guest

And I’m just thinking about the ways in which, you know, media that is created—even social media—the social media bubble is the word that you used, jarrett. That is often created by those who are the most marginalized in our societies? End up being the most representative of the fullness of our society. And so what I’m thinking about is like, my social media pages… while there’s definitely, you know, an overrepresentation of Black, queer, and trans folks, there are also other people—and other people’s thoughts—that are a part of that world as well? And I’m thinking about the films and the TV shows you spoke about—you spoke about the original Queer Eye, but I’m also thinking about the new Queer Eye reboot. I’m thinking about Steven Universe, you mentioned. I’m thinking of Doc McStuffins. I’m thinking of all of these TV shows. The L Word. The new L Word reboot. Generation Q. I’m thinking of all these newer shows in particular that have, y’know, diversity, equity, and inclusion, you know, and representation, you know, baked into the—the cake, if you will? And I am thinking about the ways in which just those forms of media are decidedly different than the forms of media that are produced for, by, and about the problematic folks. The racists and the white supremacists and the sexists and all of that.

00:18:22

Biz

Host

That’s true. That—I can see that.

00:18:24

Tre’vell

Guest

It feels different to me. Right? And when I hear what y’all are saying, like, those are the—that’s the same, you know, argument that conservatives use against social media. Against the liberal—the liberal folks and all of that. 

00:18:37

jarrett

Guest

The liberal elites? 

00:18:39

Tre’vell

Guest

The—all of that! Right? And it just—it just—I don’t know. For me, it just feels… different. The type of media that is hyper-serving my interests? Feels different than the type of media that might be hyper-serving other people’s interests. And I wonder if it’s because the media that’s serving me is not only aware and cognizant of my station in life as a Black, queer, nonbinary person—etcetera, etcetera—but it’s also aware of how my position in life? Is in relation to everybody else’s. Because my experience is under patriarchy and white supremacy and all of that. Does that make sense? 

00:19:18

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz: Yes. Hold on. There’s a bird in here.
 
jarrett: Well it makes perfect sense. And that—

[Tre’vell laughs.]

00:19:22

jarrett

Guest

I started to look around to indicate that I had something, but I didn’t know if that was the right way to do that?

00:19:27

Biz

Host

I had nothing. I’m just indicating I need about ten minutes—

[Multiple people laugh.] 

—to journal what we’re talking about. Go ahead. [Laughs.] 

00:19:35

jarrett

Guest

What I think is great about—‘cause I wholly agree with you, Tre’vell, on this one. But the thing for me is like—it really hearkens back to the first point I was making about the ways that shows that have a progressive perspective or a progressive writer’s room or a progressive tilt tend to age better. Because I think that that is an inherently progressive value, right? To be all-inclusive. I’m always explaining this, but it’s really important to me that we always define the difference between what it means to be conservative or progressive, right? 

And I mean, yes, I’m leaning into the politics of this, but like—apolitical conservative means to conserve or protect or to hold onto or to remain unchanged or to—y’know, keep something the same, right? Whereas progressive means to move forward, to evolve, to change, to—y’know, to welcome in. To always be making more room for more things. And so again, apolitically, if you are looking at something that is more progressive inherently it’s going to age better. Right? Because it was including more people into those narratives and conversations and thought processes. 

But if you’re watching something that is very niche—or very conservative that does not really have room for those other things—the people who are in that cable lane? Who are all watching just things that have that kind of focus? They also are not going to age well. Right? Because their worldview is going to be very narrow in that way. 

00:21:00

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz: They’re gonna be left behind.

jarrett: And I think that we also—

Tre’vell: Yeah.

00:21:02

jarrett

Guest

Right. We tend to see that, because when we hear actors talk about playing villains? They always talk about how, “Well, I can’t see the Joker as a villain. I have to see him as a person who made choices for whatever reasons because of whatever programming they had.” And I try, and fail, to see the Trump supporter in that way. Right? Or the conservative person—the white supremacist—like, how did you get here? Right? And so I think about all of the things that go into the programming, whether it’s media—if it’s social media, if it’s their upbringing or their religion or their environment or whatever—what programmed them to think and feel and respond the way that they do? And I think that it’s a double-edged sword. It cuts in both directions. If you’re not seeing something that is inherently more progressive, it’s gonna continually narrow your view of the world and who’s in it and what they deserve and what they should be able to do and who you are in relation to them.

00:21:57

Biz

Host

This is what I wanna wrap up on. As… and this is not something you’re supposed to necessarily have a specific answer to. But I am always looking for strong, good wording when it comes to like… [Laughs.] How I engage with my kids when it comes to stuff. Because I—I do wanna show them stuff that I liked as a kid! Stuff that wasn’t, like… I’m not looking to show them Nightmares. [Laughs.] 

[Multiple people laugh.] 

I’m looking to show them stuff that has like—that’s eighty to ninety percent good stuff! Right? That’s got some garbage tied in it. And we used to fail miserably at overexplaining things to the point where, like, we showed our oldest when they were four years old Indiana Jones? Thinking that would be fun? And then when the Nazis showed up—

[Tre’vell laughs.]

00:22:50

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

jarrett: Yikes.

Biz: Instead of just—listen. 

00:22:53

Biz

Host

Instead of just saying to a four-year-old, “Nazis are bad. They’re the bad guys.” Stefan and I went down this like—[Laughs.] 

[Tre’vell laughs.]

“Well, okay. See, this whole history of the horrors—"

00:23:09

jarrett

Guest

“Back in the ‘40s, there was this thing—” yeah. 

00:23:11

Biz

Host

The horrors! Of like the Holocaust and like all—sorry, we shoulda just said “bad people” to a four-year-old. So what are good ways to—and I ask this because of your experience studying and talking about this for a while now. What are good ways to navigate this, in terms of… wanting to share things that you enjoy with a younger generation… I mean, lots of times we just go, “It ain’t like that. That’s not—that wasn’t okay.” And we move on? But like—[Laughs.] Maybe that’s enough? But… and it may not be an answerable question.

00:23:50

jarrett

Guest

This is one of those things that I think… full disclosure, neither one of us are parents. Right? But we have different children in our lives in different ways. And I think this is one of those things that shows up in the ways that we ask questions of children. Right? When a child is presenting an idea to you that this toy is for boys or this toy is for girls or that color is representative of a boy or, y’know, that show is for whatever—I always feel like if you asked someone, “Why?” three times? You can generally get to the root of the issue.

[Biz laughs.] 

Or the root of whatever it is that they’re talking about. “Well, why do you think that blue is for boys?” “Well I saw it at such-and-such and blah, blah, blah, and duh, duh, duh.” And it’s like, “Well why did they say that? Or why did they present it that way?” or “Where did you see that?” I think if you just ask why a few times, and make them have to think about where that’s coming from, and then maybe challenge it? I think oftentimes we get to the root of whatever the thing is that we’re talking about. And I mean, it’s something that I enjoy doing in interviews when I have the time, right? But oftentimes you don’t have the time. But I think if you can ask that second or third—sometimes fourth “Why?” of “Well, where did that come from?” or “Why do you think that?” Or “Why did that feel that way to you?” Or “Why did it speak to you in that kind of way?” I think you can really start to see the ways that the messaging is having an impact, whether it is the way that they’re internalizing the information or the way that they’re expressing the information. Those kinds of things. And I think that as a person who is—y’know, like I said, always consuming and creating media and thinking about media, I’m always thinking about like, “Well what is the message that we’re sending out that is gonna be saved in someone’s mind?” Because I remember being ten-ish, and I had seen—I watched a lot of talk shows as a kid? 

[Biz laughs.] 

And I remember always being like, really intrigued by queer people on talk shows. And Ricki Lake would have bisexual people and all kinds of crazy shit, right? And I would be like—I was so intrigued! But I didn’t have an appreciate for why I was intrigued by it. But then Oprah had Greg Louganis on her show, and—for those of you that remember, Greg Louganis, Olympic swimmer who was gay but also HIV positive. He had an incident where he hit his head and he was bleeding. And it opened up this whole conversation about HIV. And I saw Greg Louganis on Oprah talking about what it was like to be gay for him? In that he was always—he was like, afraid and scared to speak out loud about it. And y’know, afraid of being rejected and ostracized and all those things. And that was the moment that I realized, “Oh… that’s what I am. Because I’ve been feeling that all of these years. I’ve been trying to figure out what the language was for a number of years up until that.” And I was like, “I am like him.” But then I also knew, like, “But I better not say that out loud to anyone.” 

00:26:43

Biz

Host

See, aah! But—here—and I know that I have—we have to let Tre’vell let the birds out. But when I listened to that—

[jarrett laughs.] 

—I also think, again, that’s a lens that’s on it. Because that started with—that started with “What will somebody consuming this take away from it?” And… the horrible realization that my children are not taking away the same things that I took away from something. Right? It goes back to the Charlie Brown. I never once thought that those kids were mean. I just thought they were kids. 

00:27:19

jarrett

Guest

But you—you also saw it in that time. 

00:27:21

Biz

Host

Well, in that time. And now my perspective has changed ‘cause I have a kid. And I’m like, “Well, do I… what will my kids see and take away from this? And not take away right now, but take away five years from now.” Y’know, ‘cause we process it and we remember things differently. Alright. Tre’vell, bring us home! [Laughs.] 

00:27:43

Tre’vell

Guest

Well I don’t know—I don’t know what to suggest in terms of things to say. But I am thinking about—and you sort of mentioned this earlier—about the other forms of media that you know you’re introducing your kids to. Right? And how that—those—whether it’s books. Whether it’s plays. Whether it’s music. How those other forms of media can either affirm what they’ve seen on TV in these old shows, or how they can push up against it. Right? And so I think about, y’know, watching those classic Black sitcoms that I mentioned. Seeing how homophobic and transphobic they are. But I was also watching this show called Noah’s Arc from back in the day, which was like a Black, gay Sex in the City.

00:28:25

jarrett

Guest

Amen!

00:28:27

Tre’vell

Guest

Okay? And I remember—

[Biz laughs.] 

00:28:28

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz: Gotta google the Noah’s Arc! Anyway. Go ahead.

Tre’vell: —how different!

[Multiple people laugh.] 

00:28:32

Tre’vell

Guest

I just remember how different those classic Black sitcoms and Noah’s Arc treated gay people. One of the reasons with Noah’s Ark being about Black, gay men in Los Angeles, written and directed by a Black, gay man who lived in Los Angeles. And so I just wonder about, y’know, making sure that the other forms of media that we’re introducing young people to can be those counterpoints? So that it doesn’t always have to be a conversation, right? 

00:28:59

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz: Right! Oh, no, that’s good.

Tre’vell: But you can introduce—you know? 

00:29:02

Tre’vell

Guest

You can introduce something else that like, you know, decidedly shows that Nazis are—are bad.

[Biz laughs.] 

Right? Or decidedly shows, you know—

00:29:12

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Tre’vell: —that homophobia or transphobia—

Biz: You’re right. “Come on, kids! It’s time to watch Schindler’s List.”

[All laugh.] 

00:29:15

Biz

Host

Get your popcorn!

00:29:17

jarrett

Guest

There ya go! 

00:29:18

Biz

Host

Put on your PJs! I don’t want to have this conversation, but this movie can have it for me! You know? Yeah. 

00:29:24

jarrett

Guest

Thanks, Steven Spielberg!

00:29:26

Biz

Host

Thank you! I will say—no problems there. I will say that actually—thank you for saying that, ‘cause that’s a really good point. That is exact—that’s one of the things we try and do and talk about is just like music for us is just a great way to not only talk about difficult things—like, to use them as a starting point. Or not difficult, but just… things. Like, “Oh, do you like this? You like this singer? They’re great, aren’t they? They weren’t allowed in the same door as the people who were, y’know, paying to hear them.” Right? Just small—

00:29:57

jarrett

Guest

Sometimes it’s okay to have a very special episode conversation. Right? Like—yeah!

00:30:01

Biz

Host

That’s—oh, my poor children have to—

[Multiple people laugh.] 

The oldest is like, “Are we about to get one of your lectures?” And I’m like, “Buckle up! You’re in the car! You can’t go anywhere!” 

[Multiple people laugh.] 

“That bumper sticker is offensive because X, Y, and Z!” Anyway. Oh well. Well, everybody, on a very special episode of One Bad Mother—

[jarrett laughs.] 

—we continue to pull apart the nuances of media on our children and our parenting! Thank you guys so much for joining me today. And—

00:30:29

Tre’vell

Guest

Thank you!

00:30:30

Biz

Host

I just had a really good time. I like talking to people who—especially very smart people. And we could’ve literally—

00:30:38

jarrett

Guest

Or us. Whichever one you can find. So.

00:30:40

Biz

Host

Whichever—yeah.

[Multiple people laugh.] 

Or you guys. Whoever’s there. Thank you, Gabe, for being my smart person I like to talk to.

[Multiple people laugh.] 

We are gonna make sure—guys, you’re already listening to this podcast. If you aren’t already listening to FANTI, you should. And there are… so many—and what’s great is you can kinda go through and go like, “Alright, maybe I’ll start with the Bill Cosby one and just see where that is!” Right? Or “I’m gonna go and do the Tyra.” Or—y’know, go all the way back to the beginning ‘cause I like to see how people progress through their discussions.

00:31:12

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Tre’vell: Oh, lordt. 

jarrett: I actually hear a lot of—

00:31:13

jarrett

Guest

We get a lot of feedback from listeners that they’re like, “Oh, I went back and I listened to them all?” One of the things that we thought about when creating this show was that if we’re not topical and talking about what’s happening this week all the time? It gives us the opportunity for people to go back and have these conversations and things like that. So it’s really great.

00:31:30

Biz

Host

Well, sadly, you can be as topical as you want when it comes to the topic. But the issues that surround that topic? Sadly are timeless.

00:31:38

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

jarrett and Tre’vell: Yeah. Yeah. 

Biz: So. 

00:31:40

jarrett

Guest

Yeah, for sure.

00:31:41

Biz

Host

Good job, everybody.

[All laugh.] 

Everybody, we’ll link you up to where you can learn more about both jarrett and Tre’vell and the podcast. Thank you guys so much for joining me. 

00:31:54

Tre’vell

Guest

Thank you! 

00:31:55

jarrett

Guest

Thank you!

00:31:56

Music

Music

“Ones and Zeroes” by “Awesome.” Steady, driving electric guitar with drum and woodwinds.

[Music fades out.]

00:32:12

Music

Promo

Mellow ukulele and whistling plays in background.

00:32:13

Biz

Promo

One Bad Mother is supported in part by KiwiCo. We all know how much we love KiwiCo on this show. Plus, it’s the schoolyear! And that’s gonna be filled with transitions, whether your kids are going back to school or logging into a classroom from home. KiwiCo saved me during the pandemic lockdowns. I mean, we did everything—from making catapults to making robot hands. A actual robot that moved, we made. We made air cannons. That was awesome. And the great thing about Kiwi Crates is there is something for all ages. KiwiCo is redefining learning with hands-on projects that build confidence, creativity, and critical thinking skills. There’s something for every kid or kid-at-heart. Get your first month free on select crates at KiwiCo.com/badmother. That’s K-I-W-I-C-O.com/badmother.

[Music fades out.]

00:33:22

Theresa

Host

Hey, you know what it’s time for! This week’s genius and fails! This is the part of the show where we share our genius moment of the week, as well as our failures, and feel better about ourselves by hearing yours. You can share some of your own by calling 206-350-9485. That’s 206-350-9485.

00:33:41

Biz

Host

Genius… fail tiiiime. 

00:33:45

Clip

Clip

[Dramatic, swelling music in background.]

Biz: Wow! Oh my God! Oh my God! I saw what you did! Oh my God! I’m paying attention! Wow! You, mom, are a genius. Oh my God, that’s fucking genius!

00:33:59

Biz

Host

Genius me… me! Okay. I will. Genius, genius, who’s got the genius? Alright. Here is my genius. Do you remember last week? [Laughs.] When I said that I was putting Heelies on? The shoes that had heels? No. Shoes that had wheels in the heels? AKA, Heelies? Well, I have put them on a few times. And gone out to practice with Raiden, the artist formerly known as Katy Belle. And—[Laughs.] I’m not good at it! I’m not good at it. And there are moments where you’re just supposed to be completely balanced and moving on a wheel on one foot. Like, that’s—because you’ve gotta pick the other foot up. Think skateboarding, but on your shoes. So like, one foot’s kind of kicking you along. 

And my feet instinctually are like, “Go down!” [Laughs.] I got one heel—basically I am holding onto the wall of the house and letting the slight slant of the driveway just, like, gravity style slowly roll me a few inches. So needless to say, it was not having fun. And thought, “Well, I don’t ever wanna do this again.” But I was having fun wheeling around. And I was having fun watching Raiden wheel around. And then I realized—I need roller skates. Just gonna let that sit there. I—[Laughs.] Roller skates, I am 100% sure, are going to solve all my problems. And are going to be a really good idea. And now is my perfect hashtag for all things. Hashtag #rollerskates. Hello, almost fifty. [Laughs.] 

00:35:53

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

Hi, One Bad Mother. This is one of those very simple geniuses that has been such a gift to myself. And that is WD-40-ing the hinges of my toddler’s bedroom door so that after I get him situated in his bed, I can leave in virtual silence. 

[Biz laughs.] 

Uh, yeah! So there ya go. I’m not sure if that’s something that everyone has problems with, but WD-40’d his hinges. And you can just sneak out! It’s great! You’re doing a good job.

[Biz laughs.] 

00:36:33

Biz

Host

Now you need to go WD-40 the front door! And sneak out! And sneak away! This is a great genius. And it’s not a simple genius. This is a… genius that many of us would never have thought to do and would have just lived in fear forever. With “How do I close this door without it—” In our case, it wasn’t the squeaky door. The air conditioning would make the door, like, rattle against the—[Laughs.] Against the frame? So I would shove this little, like, piece of cloth in there at night so it wouldn’t rattle! It wouldn’t rattle. I think you are a genius. And you are doing a very good job. Failures! Fail me, me.

00:37:27

Clip

Clip

[Dramatic orchestral music plays in the background.]

Theresa: [In a voice akin to the Wicked Witch of the West] Fail. Fail. Fail. FAIL!

[Timpani with foot pedal engaged for humorous effect.]

Biz: [Calmly] You suck!

00:37:32

Biz

Host

Ohhh. Summer? Summer! I’m failing at summer. I wasn’t failing at summer when my children—[Laughs.] Had something to do. But now I just can’t stand it. And there’s, like, I feel bad. About all the TV and all the videogames. And… I don’t know really what to do about it. I know that I’m just gonna, like, go with it. Because—who’s asking it of me? So I’m gonna set my bar super low? But I am failing at filling in the day from the time I wake up until the time I go to sleep with anything that I actually want to do with my children. [Laughs.] Failing!

00:38:26

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

Hi, Biz and Theresa. This is a major fail. We went to a goat farm yesterday. And my preschooler and toddler are absolutely loving pretending to be goats today.

[Biz laughs.] 

And they continue to ask me, like, as a reminder, “Whwat does a goat say?” And for some reason this morning I told them what a goat says. Which is, “Maaaa.” And now they’re just going around the house screaming, “Maaa! Maaa!” And it just sounds like, “Mom! Mom! Mom!” And I think I’m getting a twitch because every time I hear it I just cringe. 

[Biz laughs.] 

Yeah. I think I should’ve told them goats say “Dad.” Or just some other obscure word. This has been—I would not feel my whole body tense every time I hear it. You’re doing a good job and I am not being honest with my kids on what animal sounds are. 

[Biz laughs.] 

Have a good day!

00:39:30

Biz

Host

Maybe you’re being too honest. Maybe you’re being too honest. You know where goats live? Outside. Outside, kids! Go! I mean, I know. They’re too young to send out to the yard all, like, completely. And put earmuffs on. But—yeah. This is a fail. This is… you built this house of failure and now you have to live in it. Shame, shame. Everybody knows your name. And your name is, “Maaaaa!” [Laughs.] 

00:40:00

Music

Music

“Mom Song” by Adira Amram. Mellow piano music with lyrics.

You are the greatest mom I’ve ever known.

I love you, I love you.

When I have a problem, I call you on the phone.

I love you, I love you.

[Music fades out.]

00:40:24

Music

Promo

Inspirational keyboard music plays in background.

00:40:25

Biz

Promo

One Bad Mother is supported in part by Dipsea. Everyone needs an escape. [Laughs.] Especially if there are kids in your house. Oh my god. Enter Dipsea. Let yourself get lost in a world where good things happen and where your pleasure is the only priority. Did somebody say “my” and “only”? Yes! Please! Dipsea is an audio app, and it’s full of short, sexy stories designed to turn you on. I absolutely love Dipsea. For listeners of the show, Dipsea is offering an extended 30-day free trial when you go to DipseaStories.com/badmother. That’s 30 days of full access for free, when you go to D-I-P-S-E-A-Stories.com/badmother. DipseaStories.com/badmother. 

[Music fades out.]

00:41:23

Promo

Clip

Music: Cheerful music plays.

Dave Holmes: Are you feeling elevated levels of anxiety?

[Ding!]

Dave: Do you quake uncontrollably even thinking about watching cable news?

[Ding!]

Dave: Do you have disturbing nightmares, only to realize it's two in the afternoon and you're up?

[Ding! Ding! Ding!]

Dave: If you've experienced one or more of these symptoms, you may have FNO: [Censor bleep] News Overload! Fortunately, there's treatment.

[Music changes, becomes more intense.]

Dave: Hi. I'm Dave Holmes, host of Troubled Waters. Troubled Waters helps fight FNO. That's because Troubled Waters stimulates your joy zone. On Troubled Waters, two comedians will battle one another for pop culture supremacy. So join me, Dave Holmes, for two—two—two doses of Troubled Waters a month. The cure for your [Censor bleep] News Overload. Available on MaximumFun.org, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Music fades out.]

00:42:16

Promo

Clip

Music: Peaceful, angelic music.

Benjamin Partridge: The Beef and Dairy Network is a multi-award-winning comedy podcast, here on the Maximum Fun. And I would recommend you listen to it. But don’t just take it from me. What do the listeners have to say?

[Several beeps of a busy signal.]

Speaker 1: I would rather stick a corkscrew inside my ear, twist it around, and pull out my ear canal like a cork than listen to your stupid podcast ever again. Please stop contacting me.

Speaker 2: Hell would freeze over before I recommended this podcast, The Beef and Dairy Network, to anyone.

Speaker 3: Not in a million years. Actually, scratch that. Make it a billion years. No, how long’s infinity?

Benjamin: That’s The Beef and Dairy Network podcast, available at MaximumFun.org and at all good and some bad podcast platforms.

Speaker 4: Disgusting.

[Music fades out.]

00:43:01

Biz

Host

Alright. It’s time… for… a mom rant. [Laughs.] 

00:43:07

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

Hey! I don’t know what category this would fall into, but if anything it’s more of a shoutout. To the other One Bad mom at the park today. I was struggling getting my dude out of the park, as is customary with the toddler breed, and uh—

[Biz laughs.] 

She automatically told her kids, “Hey, we gotta go, too! It’s lunchtime. It’s naptime.” And that helped make my job a lot easier. Uh… thanks, everybody! You’re doing a good job. And thank you to Park Mom.

00:43:45

Biz

Host

Sometimes a rant is a shoutout. And sometimes it is a moment of joy. And I love this call so much! I—this is where it belongs. This is that, like… shoutout to the park mom. I—A, first of all, shoutout to you. Good job. There—we all know that there is a hidden rant below the surface when it comes to trying to get your kids to leave a park. We’ve dedicated whole episodes to bribery, to how it feels to have to football-carry a screaming, kicking child out of a park. None of that is fun. At all. And… what a absolute gift that you got backup from this other mom. And if you’re anything like me, you’re going to wind up going to the park, like, all the time in hopes that you run into this mom again. Then you can become mom friends. 

That’s what I used to do. I’d be like, “That mom was fun. Maybe they go to this park all the time! I’ll just go at the same time every day. Is there a mom friend here? How about now? Is there a mom friend now? How about now?” So really—really good job in that whole situation, and good job recognizing the other mom and good job to you, other mom! Park Mom! Helping—what a simple and easy way for us to help each other. Right? Like, that—that was—even if I took ‘em all the way to the car and then was like, “Let’s go back!” [Laughs.] That would be… still worth it. To support a parent trying to get their kids out of the park. You guys are both doing a good job. Here is to parents everywhere looking out for each other. Because—man. It can feel like we are all on our own. 

00:45:44

Biz

Host

I really enjoyed talking with Tre’vell and jarrett about navigating media. It—there’s… I think especially when it comes to like what’s okay to watch; what’s not okay to watch—that always falls so squarely in your own personal, like, the values. I don’t know if “values” is the right word. But the sort of… y’know, house rules that you’ve set up in your own house about what’s okay and what’s not okay to watch. And everybody has the right to set that up in their house the way they want to. And yet it can feel very imposing when you hear what somebody else is doing. 

Like, “What do you mean, they don’t let their seven-year-old watch Stranger Things? What? Am I—am I doing something wrong? I’m probably doing something really wrong.” Or the opposite way. “They’re showing their kid Stranger Things? Maybe I should—” Guys, we all know our kids are all different. They all have to like—I’ve got one who—Ellis has zero interest in Marvel movies. They’re just too big. Too action-y. Too much. Except for Thor: Ragnarok, because my kid’s got great taste. That is a delightful movie. But all the rest? Star Wars? Which is plenty of violence and action and blow-up! That? Totally fine. Marvel? Mm-mm. No way. 

So when I say my kid doesn’t watch Marvel movies to another parent, I’m certainly not insinuating that’s for anything highbrow or lowbrow or some moral greatness. It’s literally—we just don’t watch those movies. Minecraft is another great example. Every kid, according to Ellis, plays Minecraft and Roblox. We don’t. We’re not not letting them play ‘cause we’re anti-Minecraft. It’s against our religion or something. It’s totally because we just… didn’t want to, like, invest in the mythology that that was gonna bring into this house. Right? Like, we already had things that involved a lot of their attention and their time and had their own mythologies and blah, blah, blah. We’re okay without an extra one. We’re okay without it. Right? [Laughs.] There’s nothing to it! Because it’s what we’re doing in our house. 

And everybody gets to do what they wanna do in their house and it’s just another opportunity for us to remember that our choices and others’ choices… don’t have to be mirrors for each other. Whether that comes with our kids or whether that comes to… our own needs and our own choices. It’s better to just go out—if we can—and support each other when it comes to those choices. “Really? You’re not doing Minecraft? God. You’ve got a will of steel! Good job!” And I can say, “Good job letting your children do that. Did you get to actually have ten minutes to yourself? Wow! That’s great!” Right? Like—[Laughs.] Just—just go out, see each other, and support each other. You know what’s best in your house. So why don’t you treat others as if they also know what’s best in their house? 

So… I really appreciated having that discussion when it comes to media, because that is a really complicated area for—at least for me. So there ya go. Everybody? You’re doing a really remarkable job. I am so keenly aware of how awful it is for all of our collective anxiety out there right now. With school safety mandates changing all the time. With the anger. It’s just—ugh. Everywhere when it comes to, like, safety and COVID and school. And they, “Hey, everybody’s back in school and it’s great! Wait—two kids got COVID. So now everybody who’s not vaccinated has to go home and quarantine for ten days.” Like, great. But as a parent I’m like, “Uh, I was… I did not plan for quarantine.” Right? [Laughs.] ‘Cause how can you? You still have work! So I just—I just see you guys. Let’s go out and see each other. And I will talk to you next week. Bye!

00:50:09

Music

Music

“Mama Blues” by Cornbread Ted and the Butterbeans. Strumming acoustic guitar with harmonica and lyrics.

I got the lowdown momma blues

Got the the lowdown momma blues

Gots the lowdown momma blues

The lowdown momma blues. 

Gots the lowdown momma blues

Got the lowdown momma blues

You know that’s right.

[Music fades somewhat, plays in background of dialogue.]

00:50:33

Biz

Host

We’d like to thank MaxFun; our producer, Gabe Mara; our husbands, Stefan Lawrence and Jesse Thorn; our perfect children, who provide us with inspiration to say all these horrible things; and of course, you, our listeners. To find out more about the songs you heard on today’s podcast and more about the show, please go to MaximumFun.org/onebadmother. For information about live shows, our book and press, please check out OneBadMotherPodcast.com.

00:51:02

Theresa

Host

One Bad Mother is a member of the Maximum Fun family of podcasts. To support the show go to MaximumFun.org/donate.

[Music continues for a while before fading out.]

00:51:26

Music

Transition

A cheerful ukulele chord.

00:51:27

Speaker 1

Guest

MaximumFun.org.

00:51:28

Speaker 2

Guest

Comedy and culture.

00:51:29

Speaker 3

Guest

Artist owned—

00:51:30

Speaker 4

Guest

—Audience supported.