TRANSCRIPT One Bad Mother Episode 418: I Can’t Wait To Show My Kids This Movie (Or Not), with jarrett hill and Tre’vell Anderson

00:00:00

Biz Ellis 

Host

Hi. I’m Biz.

00:00:01

Theresa Thorn 

Host

And I’m Theresa.

00:00:02

Biz 

Host

Due to the pandemic, we bring you One Bad Mother straight from our homes—including such interruptions as: children! Animal noises! And more! So let’s all get a little closer while we have to be so far apart. And remember—we are doing a good job.

00:00:21

Music

Music

“Summon the Rawk” by Kevin MacLeod. Driving electric guitar and heavy drums.

[Continues through dialogue.]

00:00:25

Biz 

Host

This week on One Bad Mother—I can’t wait to show my kids this movie! Or not! We talk to the hosts of the podcast FANTI about being a fan of something as a child that now proves problematic. Plus, Biz is on a roll!

00:00:40

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz and caller: Wooooo! [Both do extra, short, clipped woos.]

Biz: Honk, honk!

00:00:45

Caller

Caller

You said to specify what it was, but I think you could tell that this is a woo. I’ve been wanting to call for so long and I’ve been waiting for something to be excited about. [Through tears.] And my husband’s just finally got a job. He lost it in March when I was three months pregnant.

[Biz exhales forcefully.]

But we’ve done it. We’ve been doing it. We didn’t get government assistance, unfortunately. But we did it and it’s done. He’s got a job. I couldn’t have gotten through this without you guys and the community that you built. And I just wanna say thank you so much for everything. Everyone’s doing such a great job. Everything has been so hard and everybody’s just kept doing it. And it’s helped me keep doing it, and I just wanna say thank you to everybody. I love you guys—everyone—so much. Woo! 

[Biz laughs.] 

00:01:30

Biz 

Host

Woo! I—you are doing an amazing job. Also, I’m going to copy you in your wooing style of “woo-woo! Woo-woo! Woo-woo-wooo!” It sounds like you’re honking a horn and you should be honking a horn, because you did it. Honk if you did it! You did it! I gotta tell ya, that is so stressful? To be pregnant and… have your partner lose their work and, y’know, that sensation of being just out of control but you did it. And keeping that mantra of “we did it. We’re doing it. We’re doing it. We did it.” Just—really helps me to remember [through laughter] to do it and keep doing it when it feels like doing it is impossible. I just think you’re doing such a great job. So is your partner. You guys are amazing, and I really appreciate you calling in. This community is awesome because of you! Because of everybody. We each bring something different and… I think what makes this community so… awesome is that—at least for me—I know that I’m bringing something different but I am also bringing the desire to try something different. And talk about things that are different. And just be open to different. So I—yayyyy! Everybody, you’re killing it! And if this didn’t sound like the perfect setup for a thank-you fest, I don’t know what does! It’s time… for thank-you’s!

00:03:21

Music

Music

Heavy electric guitar and driving percussion overlaid with “Ohh, oh-oh, oh-oh” and “Hey-ey-ey-ey-ey-ey” lyrics.

00:03:36

Biz 

Host

I would like to take a moment to focus on teachers and school administration. Everybody affiliated with schools. I know that here in California and in lots of places, schools have already started. They started this week. Some are starting next week. Basically for the next month, schools are starting. And if it is anything like what it’s like here, literally up until the night before classes start, policies are still being updated and changed. Y’know. A week ago, no masks. Now, masks. Is there testing? Now there’s testing; no, there’s not testing. You’re gonna need to prove that you’re vaccinated; you’re not gonna need to do it. Some staff need to—like, it—they just—it just—[Laughs.] I’ve known school was coming, guys. [Laughs.] I just feel like we coulda gotten this together a little sooner than, like, the day before school starts. 

So with that said, I want to say thank you to teachers. You also haven’t been in the classroom in over a year, many of you, or if you were back in a classroom setting last year it was very different and unpredictable. And it stinks because the schoolyear’s starting off in that same place of, “What is this gonna be like?” Anybody under twelve? That is a group of kids that can’t get vaccinated! And that is terrifying! [Laughs.] I mean, it’s not relaxing! I’m not relaxed! And you combine that with pandemic—[sighs.] Just like, “Where are we? Are we safe? Are we not safe? I don’t know!” Blah, blah, blah. “Like, it’s been going on so long it must be over!” That mental state makes all of us as parents crazy? So again, I say that so that teachers know I’m thanking them for dealing with crazy. 

And I also know you have kids, teachers. Many of you. And so that’s really hard. Basically, I see you going in and putting your health and the health of loved ones around you at risk to teach and I appreciate that. And I know that that could not have been an easy decision. And whatever your decisions are, they are the right decisions for you. This is—decisions did not get easier in the last year and a half. School nurses? School counselors? Thank you. The administration for… scrambling to try and make it work when the city, state, and national government keeps changing what the guidelines are? I, along with every parent in the country, have our fingers crossed that this isn’t going to implode. And that we’re gonna get to stay in person at school. And I want to say thank you for making this happen. And I promise I won’t be mad if it doesn’t. [Laughs.] I promise I will still support you and love you. Thank you.

As always, thank you to everybody. I just—I just really feel like teachers are in a super weirdo situation. And I… I just—as we drop our kids off, let’s make sure to give an extra thank-you. Let’s be really kind to each other ‘cause it’s nerve-wracking dropping our kids off right now. Especially if we’ve been home with them—really, legitimately—for two years without letting them out of our sight. Just give everybody the space and grace. Thank you. And thank you for getting vaccinated. And thank you for encouraging those around you to get vaccinated. And thank you for helping those who might need assistance in getting vaccinated, vaccinated. Thank you, thank you, thank you. 

00:07:48

Biz 

Host

Speaking of vaccinations—Raiden got poked! It was Raiden’s birthday last week! Get ready for this—Raiden, formerly known as the superstar Katy Belle—[Laughs.] Who is now going as Raiden, Japanese God of Thunder, they turned twelve. Can you guys believe it? If you’ve been listening for as long as I’ve been doing this, that’s… I’m freaking out. [Laughs.] I’m really freaking out! To have a twelve-year-old. So they of course got vaccinated! The day after their birthday. That has always been the plan and they are doing very fine. They just have a sore arm. And that’s okay by all of us. 

But because it was their birthday, they had been saying that there was something that they wanted for their birthday for a while. They didn’t even say it for their birthday. They were just like, “I wish I had… Heelies.” Now if you don’t know what Heelies are, they were kind of a fun fad. Maybe when Raiden was like in elementary school. But they’re basically tennis shoes that have one wheel in the heel. Hence, “Heelies." And you can skate around on them. Kind of. I got Raiden a pair of Heelies based on their current shoe size. And—which is gigantic. Hello, tween. And they came, but they actually were one size too big… but they fit me perfect! So I got Raiden another pair that fit, and they came in yesterday and I don’t know what has possessed me, but I think I should be Heeling as well. I think I should be Heeling around. Is that what the cool kids say? Or break my neck. [Laughs.] And my old bones. And my—[Laughs.] My old elbows and knees. I am going to try to skate around on Heelies and bond with my child. And we’ll see how that turns out. 

Just tune in next week for the fail segment to see how that is. If I even am able to go a foot, I’ll take that. Put that up on the Instagram. Because y’know, as far as I know, Heelies are never going to go out of style. Which I actually think ties in nicely to what we’re gonna talk about today, which is when the things that we used to think were cool or really love—like TV shows or movies or music—when we revisit them now as adults—or in some cases, six months later! [Laughs.] They may be a bit problematic. And we are gonna talk about this with the hosts of the Maximum Fun podcast FANTI, jarrett hill and Tre’vell Anderson.

00:10:47

Music

Music

Banjo strums; cheerful banjo music continues through dialogue.

00:10:48

Theresa 

Host

Please—take a moment to remember: If you’re friends of the hosts of One Bad Mother, you should assume that when we talk about other moms, we’re talking about you.

00:10:55

Biz 

Host

If you are married to the host of One Bad Mother, we definitely are talking about you.

00:10:59

Theresa 

Host

Nothing we say constitutes professional parenting advice.

00:11:02

Biz 

Host

Biz and Theresa’s children are brilliant, lovely, and exceedingly extraordinary.

00:11:06

Theresa 

Host

Nothing said on this podcast about them implies otherwise.

[Banjo music fades out.] 

[Biz, jarrett, and Tre’vell repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss the weekly topic.]

00:11:12

Biz 

Host

This week, we are talking to two wonderful people. I am very excited about having them on. The first is jarrett hill, who is an award-winning journalist, speaker, media trainer, and host contributing to The New York Times, Variety, NBC News, CNN International and Channel Q, among others. He is also president of the National Association of Black Journalists, Los Angeles Chapter. We also have Tre’vell Anderson, who is an award-winning journalist, social curator, and world changer who always comes to slay. Named to The Root’s 2020 list of the 100 Most Influential African-Americans, they have dedicated their career to centering those in the margins, grey spaces, and at the intersections of life through a pop culture lens. Together! They host! FANTI, a Maximum Fun podcast chosen as one of Apple Podcast’s Best of 2020! Wooooo! Welcome!
 

[Multiple people laugh.] 

00:12:16

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz: Welcome! Welcome!
 

Tre’vell Anderson and jarrett hill: Thank you!

00:12:18

Biz 

Host

I’m sorry you guys are so fabulous! [Laughs.] 

00:12:21

jarrett hill

Guest

I was gonna say—are we supposed to come in and act like we’re brilliant after that? ‘Cause that was—that’s—

00:12:24

Biz 

Host

Oh, yeah. No. Yeah. No—yes. Anybody who’s ever listened to y’all’s podcast will like—it is—there are moments where I’m like, “Ohhh my god I haven’t used my smart brain in so long! Ahhh! Stop!” 

[Multiple people laugh.] 

Anyway. Before we get into that—

00:12:39

jarrett

Guest

That’s so sweet. Thank you.

00:12:41

Biz 

Host

Well—you’re welcome! I just have ears and I listen. So that’s—

[jarrett laughs.] 

Not a lot to thank me for there. Before we get into the podcast, I want to ask you the question we ask all our guests—who lives in your house? It’s a chance for you to let us know who’s in there. Could be pets. Could be people. Could be ghosts. Always looking for anything you wanna share. Let’s start with you, Tre’vell.

00:13:07

Tre’vell Anderson

Guest

Um, okay. So I have twelve people who live with me in my home. They all happen to reside within my head, FYI. So, y’know.

00:13:14

Biz 

Host

Nice. Simple! The people! The people!

[All laugh.] 

00:13:20

Tre’vell

Guest

And that’s what we’re doing! I also have a partner, of sorts, that also lives at the house as well. So.

[Biz laughs.] 

He’s there, too. But y’know, he gets drowned out by everyone else. So.

00:13:35

Biz 

Host

Fair enough. Fair enough. [Laughs.] And jarrett.

00:13:38

jarrett

Guest

I live with now seventeen houseplants, from what I’m told? I think? That are spread throughout the house. My best friend is a plant nerd and they came to visit last—earlier this month or last month. And the number of plants that I have in my home has doubled. And—

00:13:56

Tre’vell

Guest

And sixteen of them are dead, FYI.

00:13:58

Biz 

Host

Oh yeah. No. I killed all mine right away.

00:14:00

jarrett

Guest

Okay. Well to be clear, these seventeen are alive but there are about eight that live out in the graveyard that I call my balcony?

[Multiple people laugh.] 

And so there’s—that is who is residing here at Casa de jarrett.

00:14:13

Biz 

Host

So y’know, the pandemic—you either ran out and you got something really living-living, or you got plants. We already had to many living things in this house so I started doing plants. I kill all plants. I am the only person I know who cannot keep a succulent alive.

[Multiple people laugh.] 

I’m like, oh! To everybody who’s like this, “It’s so easy! You just spritz them! And then ignore them!” And I’m like, “Okay.” And then they just die. They’re just… everywhere. But we—

00:14:44

jarrett

Guest

Listen. I’ve had a crew of succulent that have been here for years and then they started dying and I’m like, “Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait! We’ve been doing so good! Like, what’s happening?!” So yeah.

00:14:54

Biz

Host

It’s jealousy. Jealousy is what happened.

[Multiple people laugh.] 

I would like for you to… tell us how you guys started FANTI and y’all’s history!

00:15:06

jarrett

Guest

Tre’vell, you wanna tell ‘em how we met? 

00:15:09

Tre’vell

Guest

I don’t remember. Oh wait. No. I do. It was in ABJ, right? It was in ABJ.

00:15:12

jarrett

Guest

It was on a gay dating app. And—

00:15:15

Tre’vell

Guest

The lies you tell.

[All laugh.] 

00:15:19

jarrett

Guest

[Through laughter] But, Tre’vell—

00:15:23

Tre’vell

Guest

We met in the local chapter—the Los Angeles Chapter—of the National Association of Black Journalists. jarrett was hot shit back in the day. You know. He did this really big thing—

00:15:33

jarrett

Guest

Back in the day? I’m still here!

00:15:34

Biz

Host

He’s still president! What’s happening?!

00:15:37

Tre’vell

Guest

Wow. You know what, he was a regular-degular-schmegular person bad in the day who had a little bit of… y’know… he had the whole situation with Melania. I’ll leave it there. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, Google it.

00:15:47

Biz

Host

Google it. [Laughs.] 

00:15:49

Tre’vell

Guest

And so he was like brought into the local chapter by, y’know, the current president at that time. And then we just kind of hit it off, I think. Right? And then I became president of the chapter and my vice-president left, and so I duped jarrett into becoming my vice-president. And started—

00:16:08

jarrett

Guest

I’m glad we’re using accurate verbs. Because it was definitely duped.

00:16:11

Biz

Host

Duped. Yup.

00:16:12

Tre’vell

Guest

You’ll be alright.

[Biz laughs.] 

And y’know, we just kind of developed our friendship from there. And while we were leading that organization together, people kept saying “You all should do a show. I would listen to you all” ‘cause of our banter and our chemistry or whatever. And around that same time? Y’know, the good ol’ Laura Swisher, alright, from Maximum Fun?

00:16:31

Biz

Host

Yayyyy!

00:16:33

Tre’vell

Guest

I had been a guest on a few other MaxFun podcasts at the time, and she was like, “Listen, if you ever wanted to do a show, let me know!” And so long story short? We came in with a pitch and we got some feedback on the pitch and they were like, “Okay, it’s cute or whatever, but like that’s not it.” 

[Biz laughs.] 

And so we went away for like a week or so?

[Multiple people laugh.] 

And we workshopped it and then we came up—we were on the phone for like two hours at one day, I think, and came up with the idea for FANTI. We pitched it. They loved it. And now, y’know, the rest is history! 

00:17:03

Biz

Host

That is history! That is some beautiful history. I— [Laughs.] The feedback part always sucks! I’m like, “What do you mean, my first idea is not brilliant? You’re wrong! I’ll be back.”

00:17:15

jarrett

Guest

They were like, “This is really cute, but it’s… no. No.”

[Multiple people laugh.] 

So yeah. 

00:17:20

Biz

Host

“I’m sorry.” For anybody who hasn’t heard the podcasts, Tre’vell just gave us personal history of y’all. jarrett, tell me a little bit about the focus of the podcast.

00:17:30

jarrett

Guest

Yeah. So our show is focused on the things that we love but have some challenges with. Some people might called that like our problematic faves, right? The name “FANTI” is a portmanteau of “fan” and “anti.” To be a fan of something but have some really anti feelings about it? And so each week we take on a different topic of person or show or movement or whatever it is. Or experience that we’re having. And discuss what we love about it but why it’s also kind of challenging. And so when we pitched the show, we pitched things like the Black church as Black queer people. Right? Or Tyler Perry. Our first episode was on Kevin Hart. We’ve talked about the All Black Lives Matter movement which was supposed to be inclusive of queer and lesbian, trans folks. And all kinds of different issues that we take on each week. We take on and discuss—y’know, in an honest way that a lot of people have spoken back to us about the show about being able to have conversations about difficult topics with nuance. And being able to say like, “Y’know, this is actually really cool but this is a major problem with X thing.” So that’s kind of the focus of the show. 

00:18:32

Biz

Host

No, it—well you already know this. It’s brilliant. Because I mean—

00:18:35

Tre’vell

Guest

Of course it is. 

00:18:38

Biz

Host

What’s wonderful—it is! 

[Multiple people laugh.] 

But like, we’re always kind of talking about—and this progress is great. It is great that however slow and steady or super fast something progresses when it comes to our cultural understanding of something or becoming more present and aware of and changing and working towards—that giving space to letting people who’ve stepped in it come forward. Right? Like, move ahead. Right? I was just having a conversation with a friend the other day just about like—I step in it all the time. Our fans are happy to let me know. [Laughs.] When I do. Very graciously!

00:19:20

Tre’vell

Guest

Same, actually.

00:19:21

jarrett

Guest

As are ours. Yes. [Laughs.] 

00:19:23

Biz

Host

Yeah! And it’s such like—I actually really like it ‘cause you have this chance to get better! Like, learn what it is that you screwed up! And I appreciate that they give me space to do that. The world of pop culture, music, books, TV shows, movies—those didn’t go away as I have moved forward. Right? And like—in fact, I haven’t given lots of things a second thought until my partner Stefan, who just didn’t watch movies in the ‘70s and ‘80s—I’m trying to catch him up on classic moments and [through laughter] he’ll put ‘em in and I’m like, “Hoo, hoo, hoo! Oh. Oh. Yeah.”

[Multiple people laugh.] 

“That… wow.” I mean, I knew maybe here, but now I’m like, “Wow. That’s even—” And I think for a lot of people who have kids in their houses—my favorite story is I have two kids. That’s the end of the story. I have two kids.

[Multiple people laugh.] 

The oldest one, when they were like—when they were, y’know, very little. We only had the one. Halloween was coming! And I was ready to do The Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown. Which is one of my favorites. And we—I am wandering through the preschool parking lot and I’m like, “It’s the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown! Is tonight!” And I had three separate parents say, “We’re not showing that to our kids.” And I was like, “…why? It’s—” I know! I was like, “What’s wrong with—” I mean, I know that—but like—what?! And they go, “It’s too mean. It’s really cruel.” And I’m thinking, “Is it? I don’t remember that!” I hadn’t seen it in a while, but I don’t—I dunno! And so, y’know, I come home and we put it on to watch it. And Stefan and I are sitting there and as they are literally using the back of Charlie Brown’s head as a pattern to do their ugly jack-o’-lantern, or things like, “You couldn’t have gotten that letter, Charlie Brown! Nobody invites you to anything! I mean, like— [Laughs.] It was! It was vicious! And I was like—

00:21:35

jarrett

Guest

You’re immediately thinking about how much therapy Charlie Brown is going to need… when he grows up. Yes. 

00:21:39

Biz

Host

Oh, from Lucy for five cents! I know! So like—

00:21:43

jarrett

Guest

[Through laughter] Exactly.

00:21:44

Biz

Host

I’m sitting there and I turn to Stefan and I was like, “I—I don’t wanna feel weird about this. I grew up watching this. I did not go out and treat people like assholes.” Right? Because I watched—in fact, the cruelty never crossed my mind until I became an adult with kids. We kinda had this discussion about, “Well, do I want my kids to look at something through my lens or their own lens?” Right? They’ve gotta develop a lens. And so… with that—and they watch it every year and they never… they never comment on the cruelty. Right? They—y’know. So that’s one example that we’ve kind of gone through. But I guess I wanna start by asking… do each of you have that moment? Where you’re like— [Laughs.] You’ve turned something on that you loved as a kid or that, y’know, and you’re like—what was y’all’s—do you have a memory of a first moment with this? jarrett? I’m gonna start with you.

00:22:43

jarrett

Guest

So it’s interesting that you’re asking about this because I just did another show and we spent the whole show talking about that specific thing? 

00:22:51

Biz

Host

Oh, really? Yeah.

00:22:53

jarrett

Guest

About what that specific episode was? And so for me, I’ve been really analyzing my television viewing a lot because I’m working on a piece that I’m writing. And I’ve started to develop this theory that the more progressive a writer’s room is—or the more progressive the worldview of a show is—the better it tends to age. Right? And so—

[Biz laughs.] 

I’ve been thinking about this a lot.

00:23:13

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz: Yeah? You think?

jarrett: Right? 

00:23:15

jarrett

Guest

And so—

[Biz laughs.] 

I’ve been thinking a lot about this with Will & Grace. Because I grew up watching Will & Grace—I mean, it started in the late ‘90s, but I’ve watched Will & Grace throughout my college years? I watched it a lot in reruns and on DVD and all that kind of stuff. But now… me and my best friend—my best friend and I, whatever—

[Biz laughs.] 

My best friend and I are always talking about Will & Grace. The plant friend. His name is also jarrett, which is its own weird thing. But we’re always quoting Will & Grace. But I hadn’t really watched it in the last year and a half or two. And it’s one of those shows I’ve seen every episode backwards and forwards and all that kind of thing. But now that I’ve started rewatching it again, I’m like, “This show is aggressively white.” And this show is like—

[Biz laughs.] 

—Unapologetically white. They don’t have many Black people—there are two Black characters who have a multi-episode arc throughout the series, I believe? In eight seasons? And the unique, interesting thing to me about Will & Grace is that Will & Grace is the first show that ever got a multi-season reboot and they didn’t fix it! Right? And so even in the modern era—I think their show came back in 2018 or something like that and went off in 2020—but they still didn’t make it any better! Right? They could’ve plugged Anthony Ramos into a handful of shows. And it was like, “Oh, you guys are committed to this.” But it was interesting to me because they’re all such liberal, progressive people—the actors are—in life, but they’re most powerful when they’re all together and they didn’t use that power to… y’know, effect change or progress.

00:24:49

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

jarrett: And that’s interesting.

Biz: There’s like a 90%—100% chance it never crossed their mind. Unintentionally.

00:24:54

Biz

Host

You know what I mean? Or it just—

00:24:56

jarrett

Guest

Or at least not the first time. Yeah.

00:24:58

Biz

Host

Not—yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Huh. I’m sure they were like, “Well, we are covering The Gaze, so we don’t need to do all the things.”

[Multiple people laugh.] 

00:25:06

jarrett

Guest

There’s only so many diversity checkboxes that are getting ticked off on certain shows. So yeah. 

00:25:12

Biz

Host

Yeah. Tre’vell, do you have a moment like that?

00:25:15

Tre’vell

Guest

Um, okay. So I can’t—I can’t figure out one specific moment, but I’ve been thinking a lot—as you all have been talking—about all of those classic Black sitcoms? That popped up on Netflix? Was that last year or earlier this year? So like Moesha or The Parkers or… Girlfriends. And I remember rewatching all of those. Being in love with them when I was younger? But now realizing that, oh, these shows are like… super homophobic. Super transphobic. And still funny in some parts. [Laughs.] But also still very much a problem? Even though, right, those are the shows that many Black folks of our age, at least, those are the shows that we grew up on. Those are the shows that we talk about when we talk about seeing ourselves represented on screen. And so I think there is that like… that kind of like… ickyness, sometimes? Right? watching the shows today? ‘Cause you’re like, “Ooh, that joke, one, wasn’t even necessary. Don’t know why I found it funny. Y’know, fifteen years ago.” But also realizing that while things have definitely changed—and I hope for the better. 

00:26:27

Biz

Host

Yeah. No. It’s interesting the jokes and things like that. [Laughs.] We’ve talked about this on the show before, too. I really enjoyed the show Supernatural. Because I like two hot dudes driving around in a car listening to ‘70s music punching the shit out of monsters. ‘K?

[Tre’vell laughs.] 

Now those are some of my boxes that I’m like, “Check, check, check.” And I’ve watched it for so long… I hadn’t gone back and watched any of the early ones. And we were doing a show—a Supernatural bonus show—and I went back and watched some. And I was like, “Oh, I forgot how homophobic this show was!” Just in the sense of like—well I knew it was always a little sexist the way they threw around the “B-word,” which is just the one word I fucking can’t stand. ‘Cause I’m like, “You can say that on television whenever you fucking want ‘cause no one gives two shit about women.” Anyway! [Laughs.] I mean, you can say that you can’t say “shit.” You can’t say “fuck.” You can’t say any of that. But—

00:27:23

Tre’vell

Guest

Points are being made.

00:27:25

Biz

Host

You can say all the things all day long. But anyway. They said that. They called each other. Y’know, lots of like references to being… gay. Or—and it’s because they had emotions. And I was like, “Alright, how do I—how do I navigate this? How do I still enjoy…” And I guess I want to get into this! How do you still enjoy something even though you know that there are problems with it? ‘Cause there’s lots of things I have cut off my list that I won’t watch again.

00:27:52

Tre’vell

Guest

So I have a great answer for this. 

00:27:55

Biz

Host

Yes!

00:27:56

Tre’vell

Guest

And we actually—we sort of did an episode—I mean, we’ve kind of traversed this topic in various ways. But before I answer your question I also wanted to add America’s Next Top Model? I remember re-watching it in quarantine? Like literally everyone else? And realizing from literally the very first season how horrible that show was to a variety of different types of communities. [Laughs.] 

00:28:19

Biz

Host

Oh yeah! Just check, check, check, check!

00:28:22

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz: Check, check, check, check, check, check!

Tre’vell: Like, literally all of them. 

00:28:25

jarrett

Guest

At the risk of a shameless plug, we have a whole episode about Tyra Banks?

00:28:29

Biz

Host

Tyra Banks! I know! Yes. Plug—we’ll wait for that.

00:28:32

jarrett

Guest

And so we talk a lot about that. Yes. So if anyone is a fan of America’s Next Top Model, go check that episode out. Yeah.

[Biz laughs.] 

00:28:37

Tre’vell

Guest

But I think the way you go about… still trying to enjoy some of those things that are, y’know, touchstones for us. Y’know. That we grew up on. Y’know I feel like sometimes you just have to suspend your current reality. Right? Like, we talk a little bit about this on—we did a Bill Cosby episode.

00:28:57

Biz

Host

I heard that episode.

00:28:58

Tre’vell

Guest

We talk about The Cosby Show. We talk about A Different World and how those shows were—jarrett really loved The Cosby Show; I really loved A Different World. And how those—I was just watching A Different World last night. It’s on HBO Max, if you’re interested. [Laughs.] So like I feel like you just—

00:29:14

Biz

Host

I saw it come through! And I was like, guys, just so you know how geeky—like, and I’m not geeky in a cool way like—as I have children and I have to let them make horrible choices for themselves? I had the— [Laughs.] The Dwyane Wade flip-up glasses. 

00:29:33

Tre’vell

Guest

Yesss!

00:29:33

Biz

Host

Oh no. No. It was not cute.

00:29:35

jarrett

Guest

Um, when are we getting to the horrible choice? 

00:29:37

Biz

Host

I know! I literally—I was just ahead of my time in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. [Laughs.] 

[All laugh.] 

00:29:45

jarrett

Guest

Let me be clear—if I saw a pair of them right now, I would buy them. Because I love them.

00:29:50

Biz

Host

There are a variety of reasons this face should not have those glasses. But anyway, I just wanted to let you know how cool I am. Anyway. So yes. A Different World. You’re watching—but those are the shows I grew up with. I think I might be a little older ‘cause I also grew up with all of the Good Times, The Jeffersons, What’s Happening!!. 

00:30:10

jarrett

Guest

I saw those on Nick at Nite if that counts.

00:30:12

Biz

Host

I know. It counts. I’m like, all I can do is the theme songs. What’s the other one? It’s like, “Gimme a break! [Inaudible.]” Like I know all those—my sister and I grew up with. But The Cosby Show and—

00:30:23

Tre’vell

Guest

Yeah! I feel like you just have to like… you know… suspend reality for a little bit. Right? You have to realize that you’re watching something that ultimately is a relic. Right at this point. And it does not—most of it—some of it does not necessarily hold up to our kind of present-day belief systems about, y’know, how you treat people. And talk about folks and inclusivity and stuff like that. Like I feel like that’s the only way some of these shows that we’re talking about, films that we’re talking about, that you can still enjoy them. ‘Cause otherwise, y’know, you can’t—yeah! Otherwise you can’t do anything with them.

00:31:01

Biz

Host

Well because even stuff that’s coming out now—ten years from now—we might recognize that there were things that could have been better as well. But here’s a question—do you think there’s a difference when it comes to suspending the disbelief between characters that have been written a certain way… and the actors who play them—like Bill Cosby wasn’t a rapist on The Cosby Show. [Laughs.] He was—

00:31:30

jarrett

Guest

Can we touch on that? Because that’s an interesting point. As a person who watched The Cosby Show a lot and really enjoyed it and really loved all of those characters, someone pointed out to me in the last few months, like… Bill did choose to make himself a gynecologist.

00:31:45

Biz

Host

Gross.

00:31:47

jarrett

Guest

Which was interesting to me. And I thought—oh, wow.

00:31:48

Tre’vell

Guest

You did not have to remind us of that. 

00:31:51

Biz

Host

Fucking gross.

00:31:52

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Tre’vell: You did not have to remind us.

jarrett: No, it was an interesting thing, right? [Laughs.] Like it was something that I was like—

Biz: Gross.

00:31:56

jarrett

Guest

“Oh. I didn’t think about that.” Right? Until—

00:31:59

Biz

Host

Well now I really can’t go back and watch The Cosby Show. Goddammit!

00:32:03

jarrett

Guest

Because like—I still enjoy—Clair Huxtable is one of my favorite characters of all time. Right? And so I still enjoy their interactions. As myself now, as a writer, I’m enjoying writing scenes without dialogue and the first place I remember seeing that was on The Cosby Show. There’d be these beautiful scenes where there’d be music and you’d see Claire and Heathcliff interacting with no words and there’s music and maybe they’re dancing or they’re smiling or they’re gesturing or whatever. And I always thought that was really, really cool. And so to both of your points—and Tre’vell was talking about kind of suspending the disbelief piece—it’s hard for me now even more. Because as I’m watching Bill Cosby and I know that there are dozens upon dozens of women who’ve come out saying that he’s done these things to them—and we have to imagine there are probably more who we haven’t heard from or have passed away over the years or whatever—I think to myself, like… oh, was he in his trailer before filming this scene doing, y’know—

00:32:56

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

jarrett: —dirt? Or—

Tre’vell: Right.

Biz: Jerking off? Just something horrible? Yeah. 

00:32:58

jarrett

Guest

Yeah! Or I’m always thinking—and sometimes the jokes hit a little bit differently for me. And I’m like, “Ohhhh. You’re a serial rapist.” Y’know? Like.

00:33:07

Biz

Host

Yeah. ‘Cause I think for me it’s easier—like, so with a show like Supernatural, those two actors are totally decent guys as far as I know. I haven’t seen anything truly horrible come out about them. Right? And they’re not homophobic. They’re not—y’know, these are the characters that they play. They may not be the best example, either. But— [Laughs.] But then if it’s somebody who’s done something, like that—for me I have a much harder time… it’s like I don’t think I could watch The Cosby Show and not see him. Right? Not see… that. Which is… like, a shame. But I wanna—well it’s not a shame. Fuck you. But— [Laughs.] 

00:33:52

jarrett

Guest

But even to that point—but like— [Laughs.] 

00:33:54

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz: To Cosby! Not the show.

jarrett: But even to that point, right?

00:33:56

jarrett

Guest

Separating the actor from the character… part o the challenge for me, if we’re talking about Will & Grace like I did earlier? Is all of these actors are so powerful now, right? Eric McCormack, Debra Messing, Megan Mullally, and Sean Hayes are all really powerful, seemingly-wealthy people who have a say in what goes into those scripts because they have to say those words. And so nowadays I’m looking at these actors and saying, like, “Well, you didn’t write it but like… you didn’t push back on it either.” Right? Or you didn’t say, “Well, why don’t we have more of this?” or you didn’t speak out against it and say that this wasn’t okay. And so it becomes more challenging for me now because as I’m looking back I’m like, “Well why didn’t you say something in the newer seasons,” right? It was one thing in 1998; it’s another thing in 2021 or 2019 or whatever the year is. So.

00:34:47

Biz

Host

Well it’s fascinating as—I get to sit and watch my kids experience new media and old media. Right? I get to… sit here and see, alright, y’know, our influences on them. The school’s influences. The things they read. Y’know, all the same stuff. We all got influenced by different things. And it’s so… like, I will try and find a show for my oldest to watch. Everybody who listens to the show knows that Raiden—formerly known as Katy Belle—and every single one of the kids in their class trying to out-gay each other. Which is just so different than my experience in seventh grade. [Laughs.] ‘K? I mean, I swear to god—every single one is like—y’know, I mean with words that I’m just learning. I’m like, “You’re what? That’s not even—like, I know the big ones. But we are—great.” 

But watching shows with them—like anything even five years old, sometimes. Where you’re like, they’ll be like, “Oh, that’s not—” We tried to do Glee, but that just wound up being too yuck? Even though they’re like twelve, I was like, the things I think are funny in this show are a little too dark for you to under—like, every time that kid got that milkshake in the face I was howling? And then iw as like, “Oh, you don’t understand why that’s so cruel and yet funny at the same time.” See? Charlie Brown! Goes right back to Charlie Brown! And it’s like, god, the first three episodes I’m like, “How much sex are we going to talk about in this hilarious show?” I loved it, but I was just like, [through laughter] oh my god! Sorry. Sorry, baby. But just anything that—and my—again, Stefan will go and watch tons of old movies. Labyrinth and E.T. and Back to the Future. And Back to the Future is a good one for me where I’m like—I love Back to the Future. I can’t imagine watching this… with my child when we get to what is essentially Biff trying to rape the mom. The—what’s-her-name. The—y’know. And I’m like—but as a kid you just watched it. Y’know? You just watched it and you didn’t think twice about it. But now I’m like… y’know. I think quite a bit about it. Right? And I’m like—yeah.

00:37:06

jarrett

Guest

It's interesting ‘cause I have a nephew that’s almost three years old and he has all of these shows that he loves to watch on Netflix. Like all these animated shows and there are airplanes that are flying around and a motorcycle that talks and all kinds of stuff like that. Right? And he’s not really listening to the storylines? ‘Cause sometimes the TV’s not even really turned up loud enough for him to be able to hear it, but he’s just kinda staring at it? And watching the things move and happen. And so I find myself starting to… watch things through what I imagine his lens is? As like, “Oh, so what is he taking in from this?” Because as a person who is in media and creates media, I’m thinking about the ways that all of these things are starting to kinda program what he thinks and believes and feels. Right? 

And only in the last year have I started to really—he’s like, gone from being an infant to being a toddler and having a bit of a personality, right? And so he’s playing with this airplane that talks or whatever. And I’m watching him tell stories with the airplane and the firetruck and the airport and the different things. And I’m like, “Oh, he’s beginning to see how these different things interact with one another. Who’s the good person. Who’s the bad person.” And all that. And so as he’s watching TV I’m always thinking about that. Like, what is being saved and what’s kinda like going in and out and not really registering at all? 

00:38:28

Biz

Host

‘Cause like even with voices… in animated shows. Right? Y’know, you can still—by the way, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic is the greatest show ever. Everybody should watch that. It is excellent.

[Multiple people laugh.] 

My child has figured out that every pony is a different LGBTQ flag.

00:38:45

Tre’vell

Guest

Yessss!

00:38:47

jarrett

Guest

Oh, is that what that is? 

00:38:49

Biz

Host

Yes! I don’t know if it’s on purpose but I think it is ‘cause all of their stuff is very… all the ponies have been shipped. 

00:38:55

jarrett

Guest

Oh, I never thought about that!

00:38:57

Biz

Host

And it is… fucking great show. And there are some action scenes that would put Batman and Superman to shame with Twilight Sparkle. Anyway. But like—

[All laugh.] 

I could talk kids’ media. I will tell you, I don’t know where I just went. But I will tell you this—the thing that I’ve noticed—we don’t have live television in the house. We cut cables a long time ago and so they, y’know, Netflix, Amazon—whatever. They can just poke it and watch it. So commercials are not something they get. A lot of. 

00:39:27

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Tre’vell: Ahhh.

jarrett: Hmmm.

00:39:29

Biz

Host

And right now—because of the Olympics and the impending football season—college football season. [Laughs.] ‘Cause I am from Alabama. We get Hulu Live so we can stream live television? So the kids have been like, “Live television?!” And all I hear are the ads? And the ads are just… like… it is impactful. The tones for girls. The tones for guys. I mean, we all know this because we grew up with it. But these kids haven’t been around it. And the toys themselves. Like… there’s a line of Bratz dolls that are like—you can tell they made them and then the world decided that maybe we shouldn’t have as many female dolls that are called Bratz? So somebody kept the doll but changed—

[jarrett laughs.] 

—changed the copy. And the copy’s like, “When you wanna get involved with an important cause!” And suddenly each of these Bratz is involved in the environment and wildlife safety? And I’m like—

[Tre’vell laughs.]

—no they’re not! No they’re not! They are not!

00:40:33

jarrett

Guest

That’s a shift.

00:40:35

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz: I know. It was a bit shift. And I was just like—

jarrett: That’s a shift. Yeah. 

00:40:37

Biz

Host

The only thing that’s changed here is the copy. But I think possibly the reason why my kids—and their friends, besides living very progressive, Southern California—are very different than the world that I was in at their age—is because they’re not getting inundated as much. They get to choose what they’re watching as opposed to me, who just had to watch whatever was on television. Right? Or they’re not getting inundated with the ads that are so full of messaging. I just… I was talking. I’m like, I wonder how much that plays into it. ‘Cause no one’s telling them that, “This is the toy you need to be a guy!” [Laughs.] 

00:41:19

jarrett

Guest

Yeah. Well to that point, I always reference this as like, “Everything is becoming cable”?

[Biz laughs.] 

Something I don’t think we had an appreciation for in the way that like… when we were in the era where it was just broadcast networks and then cable was like a handful of channels? Cable is something that is niche, right? Every cable channel has a very specific, direct audience. Whereas broadcast television is still trying to reach the broadest audience it can, right? On different nights of the week they’re trying to reach Black folks or women or whatever it is. And so that has been interesting to me because as we watch things become more and more niche? Each of these streaming platforms has their own kind of specific lanes that they’re trying to find. Some doing better than others, right?

[Biz laughs.] 
 

But as we are looking at different streaming platforms, I see these new billboards up for Discovery+ and they’re like, “The home for suspense!” And there’s all these different suspense platforms that they’re doing. Or “The home for whatever.” And it’s like we’re gonna start getting more and more niche in our interests? And I’m only gonna start watching shows that are reaching into my interests. Which is great on some level. But then also is like—

00:42:30

Biz

Host

Well I was gonna ask, do you think it’s great or do you think it could lead to some issues?

00:42:33

jarrett

Guest

Well it’s great—

[Biz laughs.] 

I mean, it’s a double-edged sword. It’s gonna cut both ways, right? Because on some level we’re going to get narrower and narrower focus? But also we’re not gonna be introduced to new things or new perspectives or new ideas that are outside of that area. Everything is becoming cable. We’re kind of all kind of getting into our own niche world with the way that we consume our news. Or the places that we read our social media. All of these different things.

[Biz laughs.] 

00:42:58

Biz

Host

I’m looking at Tre’vell. There’s either a bird—

00:43:00

jarrett

Guest

I see Tre’vell processing.

00:43:01

Biz

Host

There’s either a bird—

[Multiple people laugh.] 

—in Tre’vell’s home flying around that they are looking at, or… or Tre’vell is processing this. I can’t tell. You’ll have to tell me. Is this the “I totally disagree” or is this the “I have a bird in my house?”

00:43:17

Tre’vell

Guest

It is—

[jarrett laughs.] 

Okay, here’s the—it’s not the bird. I’ll put it that way.

00:43:20

Biz

Host

Okay. I’m kinda sad that it’s not the bird. [Laughs.] 

00:43:23

Tre’vell

Guest

I don’t know if I disagree… but I think it depends on… like… the particular viewer’s station in life. Right? I think when we start talking about, y’know, basically people’s interests being hyper-served… y’know, if your interests happen to already be inclusive and representative of a variety of different communities, that it’s cool. Right? Now if your interests happen to be, I don’t know, Fox News or—

[Biz laughs.] 

Y’know, conspiracy theories. Right? Or something like that. Then maybe—

00:43:58

Biz

Host

Racist? [Laughs.] 

00:43:59

Tre’vell

Guest

Listen! You know!

00:44:01

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

jarrett: Racist. Homophobic. Transphobic. Xenophobic. Yeah.

Biz: I mean, if. If it is. If it’s homophobic—yeah. If it’s—

00:44:05

Tre’vell

Guest

Maybe that is a problem, right? If you—y’know, doesn’t Donald Trump have a cable network now? Did I make that up? 

00:44:11

Biz

Host

Ugh, gross. I don’t know. I’m not—

00:44:12

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

jarrett: You did. You did. 

Biz: —thinking about it.

Tre’vell: If you’re—if you are—

00:44:14

Tre’vell

Guest

If that’s what you’re interested in, then maybe… maybe we would see that as a problem. Right? But I don’t know! I like being able to hyper-serve my interests. Because historically, Tre’vell Anderson’s interests haven’t been hyper-served? Right? Like, I love—y’know, just the flip side of it. Right?

00:44:35

Biz

Host

That’s true. That’s true.

00:44:36

Tre’vell

Guest

Y’know? And that’s not to dismiss or erase what you’re saying. Right, jarrett? But that is one of the things that I think many of these platforms are leaning into. With the Netflix, the reason why they have Strong Black Lead is because Black folks wanna see Black folks on screen. Right? And it’s become its own thing. And so I don’t know. Maybe there is overall a net negative? Because of, y’know, the racists and the white supremacists and all of that?

00:45:04

Biz

Host

Yeah. All the people who are ruining it. [Laughs.] 

00:45:06

Tre’vell

Guest

But I wonder about—is there a way for us to reframe our thinking about it to where we’re not focused on, y’know, the foolishness, right, that they are able to continue perpetuating. But we’re focused on, y’know, the majority. Right? Everybody else, who isn’t interested in perpetuating that. 

00:45:28

Biz

Host

Wait. We have to stop. Hi, everyone! [Laughs.] This week’s discussion with jarrett hill and Tre’vell Anderson of the podcast FANTI was so epic we had to split it into two episodes. Check back next week for the rest of this epic discussion. 

00:45:47

Music

Music

“Ones and Zeroes” by “Awesome.” Steady, driving electric guitar with drum and woodwinds.

[Music fades out.]

00:46:05

Music

Promo

Mellow ukulele with whistling plays in background.

00:46:06

Biz 

Promo

One Bad Mother is supported in part by Function of Beauty. Are you tired of… never having time to take care of yourself? [Laughs.] I am! I am! Ugh. Fine. I’ll just use whatever shampoo was left here by a relative. Guys, Function of Beauty makes haircare products that are 100% customized to your needs. And here’s how you do it! You go to Function of Beauty. You take a quick but thorough quiz to tell them a little bit about your hair type; hair goals. Then Function of Beauty will send you your 100% customized formula! Function of Beauty also just launched its best-in-class subscriber program—Function with Benefits! Subscribers get discounts on every order and more great perks. So turn your good hair days into a good hair life. Go to FunctionOfBeauty.com/badmother and take your quiz and save 20% off your first order. Go to FunctionOfBeauty.com/badmother to let them know you heard about it from our show, and get 20% off your order. FunctionOfBeauty.com/badmother. 

[Music fades out.]

00:47:23

Theresa

Host

Hey, you know what it’s time for! This week’s genius and fails! This is the part of the show where we share our genius moment of the week, as well as our failures, and feel better about ourselves by hearing yours. You can share some of your own by calling 206-350-9485. That’s 206-350-9485.

00:47:42

Biz

Host

Genius fail time. As always, a little reminder—Theresa is taking time off to focus on their family. Which leaves it… to me. To genius me. 

00:47:57

Clip

Clip

[Dramatic, swelling music in background.]

Biz: Wow! Oh my God! Oh my God! I saw what you did! Oh my God! I’m paying attention! Wow! You, mom, are a genius. Oh my God, that’s fucking genius!

[Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective genius moments of the week.]

00:48:11

Biz

Host

Alright, guys. Raiden’s birthday—like I said—was last week. They wanted a rainbow cake. Quote-unquote, “I want a big gay cake.” [Laughs.] They wanted the outside of the cake to be totally white and then when you cut in it, rainbow. Now, guys. I make some cakes. I’ve been known to fiddle with a cake or two. And I think this is not going to be a problem. I’ve got three cake pans. And that means I can make six layers in two rounds of cake. So I make the batter. I individually mix the recipe suggested amount for each pan. Red, blue, yellow, green. I made purple. I made orange. I cook them, and out they come. 

And… they’re very thin. [Laughs.] Some edges might be more cookie than cake? Or crisp? And for sure it looks like none of the color is there. But I can’t cut it apart to see. Right? ‘Cause like, the outside’s brown and toasty from the oven. So… I just say, “To heck with this!” And I start cutting it so that I’m cutting all the crispy parts off so it’s just slightly smaller—but still round, more even—rainbow cake. Again, I do not think the layers of the cake are rainbow. Then I decide—I know what I’ll do. I’ll make icing and rainbow color each layer of icing and then between each layer of the cake I’m gonna put like a red, a yellow, a green, a blue—like whatever. So I do that. And for the first time ever, I made actually the right amount of icing. And I don’t know when you ice the top of your cake—when I do it—I always end up jerking up some of the crumb and I’m like, “Aaah! I’ll just slap some more icing [through laughter] on this cake!” 

Anyway, that night we are cutting the cake. And it is not very rainbow inside. It was very— [Laughs.] It was like… muddy, muddy, muddy… blue. Muddy, muddy green. Muddy, muddy—and then the icings were all just like… eeeeeee. Just like a little pop of color. But there was so much fucking icing on the outside of this cake, even Ellis was like, “This is mistake cake. This is… miscake. Too much sugar. Too much… too much sugar.” But cake is cake, and cake is good. So. That cake is fine. And I’m counting it as a genius. [Laughs.] 

00:51:02

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

Hello, Biz, Theresa, and Gabe. 

[Biz cheers.]

This is a genius. It is dinnertime for my three-year-old and almost-two-year-old. I filled up the smaller one’s milk again because he is a monster, and I accidentally gave it to his older sister. And of course panic ensued. So I asked my older daughter if I should go on time out. And she said yes. So here I am. On time out. And it’s the best. Thanks, you guys. You’re doing a great job.

00:51:32

Biz

Host

Oh yeah. Mama’s gonna need a loooong time out. Mama has been very, very bad. [Laughs.] I’m gonna need to sit in this very comfy chair facing the corner in—in fact, maybe you should just put me outside. For a little while. That’s genius! Everybody, keep that in your repertoire of hide-and-seek. “Oh man, I still just can’t find you!” [Laughs.] To “I’ve been bad. Put me in a time out.” You’re doing an amazing job! And also—thanks for the shoutout to Gabe! Gabe is here! Listening to all of our secrets. Failures! 

00:52:17

Clip

Clip

[Dramatic orchestral music plays in the background.]

Theresa: [In a voice akin to the Wicked Witch of the West] Fail. Fail. Fail. FAIL!

[Timpani with foot pedal engaged for humorous effect.]

Biz: [Calmly] You suck!

[Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective failures of the week.]

00:52:23

Biz

Host

Fail me, me. Okay. I actually have quite a few fails saved up from this past week. It’s been just a great week. But I will lead off this week with—Ellis and I—well, in fact, all of us in the family—used to like—pre-pandemic—going to little random conventions that would come through the Pasadena Convention Center. They always had a lot of fun ones. Different little Robofest or Toyfest or Robocon. Animefest. Catfest. I mean, there was a whistling competition we went to once. I mean, we love that shit! And Ellis has been Lego/Beyblade/whatever addicted, and so I saw that for the first time since the pandemic, a Transformer robot fest was gonna be coming to the Pasadena Convention Center. And so for three months, I’ve had this on the calendar. And Ellis and I have been like, “Ellis, let’s save up our money so that you can go ‘cause they’ll probably be Legos there.” And tra-la-la-la-la, we’re so excited. Mama-Ellis time. We’re gonna do it. So Saturday morning—and I have paid for the VIP tickets, by the way. So that we can be the first ones in the door so it’s less COVID-y. [Laughs.] 

So Ellis and I get up. We’re fed. We’re masked. We make it over to the Convention Center. We park. And we’re walking towards it, and usually there’s like… a sign or like a giant robot or something? All I see are people—like, dudes in khakis and polos and women in like casual business skirts. And their laptops. And I’m thinking, “That is a weird con.” And I pull out the tickets and the event is for… Sunday. Not Saturday. Not the day that we’re there. Not the day… that we’ve been talking about and going to sleep all excited. Can’t sleep. Oh my god! We went on the wrong day! And I looked at Ellis, and I said, “Ellis? We are here on the wrong day. The fest is tomorrow.” And he looked at me—and this shows you where being part of this community comes in—he turns to me [through laughter] and he says, “Man, there’s your fail for the week.” [Laughs.] I was like, “You’re right! You’re right. I don’t even have to write this one down.”

00:54:54

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

So this is a failure for trying to be a person, I guess. I—

[Biz laughs.] 

—had a meeting with a mom group and it was during bedtime so my husband agreed to put the boys to bed. We talked to the boys. We have two four-year-olds. Explained Daddy was putting them to bed; Mommy would see them in the morning. Um… my husband tries for thirty minutes to calm down one of my guys. 

[Biz laughs.] 

Eventually he FaceTimes me. Then my son insisted I read his book—which I cannot do over the phone—

[Biz laughs.] 

—and I end up leaving my meeting and of course he falls asleep before I can get home. So… I guess… that’s what I get for trying to be a person. I am just my children’s comfort, and I will have a life at some point. [Inaudible.]

00:55:52

Biz

Host

Oh yeah. For sure. That is a… epic, classic, tried-to-be-a-person-and-failed. What? Did you think you could go out and not be FaceTimed? The wound—the salt in the wound is really the like, “Well will you read a book to me?” You’re out in public and you’re on FaceTime with your child who’s like, “Will you read a book? Will you do blah, blah?” And then you have to watch them! Like, I used to tell Stefan, “Please don’t FaceTime me. Because if Ellis sees me, they’re gonna start crying. And then what position am I—like, I am trapped. I mean, I have to come home. Right?” And you’re right—that child will be asleep when you get home. And I am very sorry. You are failing at trying to go out and have friends. But luckily, you were trying to go out with a group of people who—if anybody—will for sure understand. [Singsong voice] You’re doing a horrible joooob!

00:56:50

Music

Music

“Mom Song” by Adira Amram. Mellow piano music with lyrics.

You are the greatest mom I’ve ever known.

I love you, I love you.

When I have a problem, I call you on the phone.

I love you, I love you.

[Music fades out.]

00:57:15

Promo

Clip

Music: Light, rhythmic keyboard over drums plays in background.

Tre’vell Anderson: Hey there, beautiful people! Did you hear that good, good news?

jarrett hill: Something about the baby Jesus?

Tre’vell: Mmmm! He’s coming back! [Laughs.]

jarrett: Or—do you mean the fact that Apple Podcasts has named FANTI one of the best shows of 2020?

Tre’vell: I mean, we already knew that we was hot stuff, but a little external validation never hurts. Okay?

jarrett: [Through laughter] Hosted by me, writer and journalist jarrett hill.

Tre’vell: And me, the ebony enchantress myself—

[jarrett laughs.]

Tre’vell: —Tre’vell Anderson.

jarrett: FANTI is your home for complex conversations about the grey areas in our lives; the people, places, and things we’re huge fans of but got some anti feelings toward.

Tre’vell: You name it, we FANTI it. Nobody’s off-limits.

jarrett: Check us out every Thursday on MaximumFun.org or wherever you get your slay-worthy audio.

[Music ends.]

00:58:02

Promo

Clip

Music: Light, chiming music.

James Arthur M.: Hey, folks! It’s me, James Arthur M., host of Minority Korner—your home through these bewild times for weekly doses of pop culture, history, news, nerdy stuff, and more through a BIPOC, queer, and allied lens. 

[Scene change.]

Speaker 1: Yo, we have been in a panorama for a whole year.

James: I—! The Pon de Replay has been going for…

[They laugh.]

James: We’ve been in a Ponderosa for a year.

[Scene change.]

Speaker 2: Wonder Woman doesn’t even get to fly her own invisible jet. That was another thing. I was like, “This is your jet!”

[Scene change.]

James: Think about the war on drugs. We must think of it as a war on Black and brown and poor people.

Speaker 3: Yes.

James: To only uphold the caste system of America.

[Scene change.]

James: So, join me and some of your new BFFs every Friday, here on Maximum Fun, to stay informed, empowered, and have some fun. Minority Korner: because together, we’re the majority.

[Music fades out.]

00:58:49

Biz

Host

Alright, everybody. Let’s snuggle up and hold hands in a socially-distanced and responsible manner and listen to a mom have a breakdown.

00:59:03

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

Hi, Biz and Theresa. This is Angelina calling with a rant. Why is it so hard for the girls’ weekend to happen? Like, why? I swear, every single time it’s like, guys wanna go camping or fishing? It’s like just magical butterflies just come down and everything lines up perfectly. But I have been back and forth, energetically texting, physically talking to all my favorite people and we’re all really great women and we all know how to make this happen, but it’s just… [sighs.] It’s just so hard to get from A to B. I guess we just need to have more girls’ weekends so we can have systems in place and practice doing this so we can get better at it. Anyway. Thanks so much for the Hotline. I just needed somewhere to put this. Biz and Theresa, you guys are doing a really great job. And eventually, so am I. Thanks. Bye. 

01:00:06

Biz

Host

First of all, you are doing a great job. None of us are doing a good job at figuring out how to create social opportunities and put systems into place so that we can enjoy those social outings with friends. Especially with young kids. And look. We have sat here on this show. And we have had guests come on this show. And we have all talked and talked and talked to death this notion of, “Just go! Just go! They’ll figure it out!” And I mean, like, listen to the fail! We just—we just talked about this in the fail with the mom who actually got out. And then— [Laughs.] And then got pulled back in! Like a horrible riptide. 

That—in a perfect world—just before a child enters your house, you would sit down with your support team. Be it a partner. Be it parents. Siblings. Other caregivers. Y’know. Whoever is in your support system. And say, “I need to get a system in place so that X amount of times a week or a month, I get to go out. I’m going out with my friends. In fact, I’ve already organized this with my friends so we’re not all scrambling.” Right? Now this—again—is a dream world. Because everybody’s schedules are different. Any day of the week a kid is sick. Any day of the week you haven’t been sleeping and the idea of going out suddenly feels overwhelming. And yeah! There is sometimes some very unfair President of Everything, emotional labor, who can actually take care of the kids, like, things happening in our houses. Where yeah! Do you know why it’s easy sometimes for our partners to go out? Because we are programmed to say, “Go for it. I got it. I got it.” And sometimes our partners aren’t programmed that way. They didn’t grow up in a house like that. Or society hasn’t been telling them that this entire time. I mean, they know—‘cause you didn’t marry an asshole—they probably know, but until you sit down and say, “We really… we gotta be on the same page.” 

And I remember with Stefan—who was like, “Go. Out. I’ve got this.” I still had the problem going. Not only did I need them to tell me that they had it, and that it was really okay—they needed to also tell me that they weren’t giving me permission, ‘cause fuck you if I want to go out I can. Right? That’s fucked up. And they also had to, like, really support me doing it. And in a way that was unrelated to our kids. We can’t beat ourselves up about not getting this right every time we try it. Because it’s not… always about just one thing. It’s—it goes back to the old, “Make some time for yourself! Take a shower! Do you wanna go take a shower while I’m here?” 

Y’know, like, yes! Thank you! I appreciate your reaching out and offering me space. But actually my brain is scrambled eggs and I don’t know what to do with this five minutes. Or ten minutes. And all I can say is that I keep trying to figure it out, and I will say—because I have yelled and screamed about it enough in our house—I am more willing to take those moments for myself and ask for those moments. But it took a long time. [Laughs.] I just flat-out—I have a twelve-year-old, and I am currently now like, “I’m gonna go see a friend tonight.” So, y’know, everybody’s timeline is different. But the thing is, is that you’re doing a good job. And you’re trying to have a girls’ weekend. Which is just above and beyond. And I encourage you to keep trying. I encourage all of us to keep trying. Just ‘cause we haven’t asked before doesn’t mean we can’t ask now. You are doing… a really good job. 

01:04:30

Biz

Host

Guys? [Sighs.] You’re all doing a really good job. Surprise! All of this is so fucking complicated! I mean, like, everything from what we were talking about with jarrett and Tre’vell about, y’know, for lots of us we have these touchstones from our own childhood—whether they be TV shows or movies or music, books—and suddenly as the world and our social consciousness evolves—which is good!—a lot of those things that were once our touchstones are… touchy. And that gets really complicated. Because as an adult I can sit there and say, y’know, “I understand the nuances of the things that are no longer really okay in this. I understand why it was funny and now I understand why it’s grossly unfunny. And—but it’s just a portion of this larger movie. And I know I can still navigate this and enjoy it. But I should have no reason that my twelve-year-old think that they can navigate it.” Right? 

But it’s also an opportunity, as we talked about, to have these conversations! Things that we think are perfect right now—being put out right now—in six months or six years or… sixty years might become problematic! Because again, we want to keep getting better at how we see each other and treat each other. But it’s a weird fine line in there! And as parents, it’s just another thing to add to the long list of things I didn’t think I was gonna have to think about but now I have to think about it all the time and I’m probably gonna stay up until two o’clock in the morning overthinking it. So… great. 

Also, school. Great. Another thing. Like, another thing that’s gonna freak me out and keep me up all night. I don’t wanna have to make decisions to send or not send my kids. I want my children to go to school! God, I hate watching the world just to see if we’re gonna fuck this up and then not be able to do it! I might lose my mind. So that—we’re all going through that. And we’re all going through the… [sighs.] Never-ending struggle of finding balance between time for ourselves; time for our families; and I—it’s a lot! It’s a lot. It is, in fact, a lot. And in many cases, it is, in fact, too much. So let’s go be kind to ourselves. Let’s go be kind to each other. You’re all doing a remarkable job. And I will talk to you next week. Byyyye!

01:07:30

Music

Music

“Mama Blues” by Cornbread Ted and the Butterbeans. Strumming acoustic guitar with harmonica and lyrics.

I got the lowdown momma blues

Got the the lowdown momma blues

Gots the lowdown momma blues

The lowdown momma blues. 

Gots the lowdown momma blues

Got the lowdown momma blues

You know that’s right.

[Music fades somewhat, plays in background of dialogue.]

01:07:55

Biz

Host

We’d like to thank MaxFun; our producer, Gabe Mara; our husbands, Stefan Lawrence and Jesse Thorn; our perfect children, who provide us with inspiration to say all these horrible things; and of course, you, our listeners. To find out more about the songs you heard on today’s podcast and more about the show, please go to MaximumFun.org/onebadmother. For information about live shows, our book and press, please check out OneBadMotherPodcast.com.

01:08:23

Theresa

Host

One Bad Mother is a member of the Maximum Fun family of podcasts. To support the show go to MaximumFun.org/donate.

[Music continues for a while before fading out.]

01:08:46

Music

Transition

A cheerful ukulele chord.

01:08:47

Speaker 1

Guest

MaximumFun.org.

01:08:49

Speaker 2

Guest

Comedy and culture.

01:08:50

Speaker 3

Guest

Artist owned—

01:08:51

Speaker 4

Guest

—Audience supported.