Transcript
biz ellis
Hi. I’m Biz.
theresa thorn
And I’m Theresa.
biz
Due to the pandemic, we bring you One Bad Mother straight from our homes—including such interruptions as: children! Animal noises! And more! So let’s all get a little closer while we have to be so far apart. And remember—we are doing a good job.
music
“Summoning the Rawk” by Kevin MacLeod. Driving electric guitar and heavy drums. [Continues through dialogue.]
biz
This week on One Bad Mother, we talk to the lovers, the dreamers, and you, as we sit down with Angela Joy to talk about her new book, Black Is a Rainbow Color. Plus, Biz busts out some cake parenting.
crosstalk
Biz and caller: [Quietly] Wooo.
caller
I’m here. And I just got my second COVID vaccine and lefty got his second shot yesterday and my parents are getting their second shots next week. And it just feels like… relief! It just feels like relief that there’s some sort of end in sight and I woke at a community health center. Our community has been just devastated by this. And… and my favorite people in the building, our MAs and our janitor and our facilities guy who works so hard to keep us safe. So just the folks who clean the building, it’s truly—they are so important. We’re vaccinating almost 200 people this week, which is just awesome. And we’re a little health center in the city but we’re just gonna keep chipping away at this and oh my gosh, it’s hard to believe that the end might be in sight at some point. Whew! Take a deep breath. You’re doing a great job.
biz
You are doing a good job! I appreciate the most releasing deep breath sighing “woo” I think we’ve had to date on the show. [Breathily] Woooo. You’re doing such a good job. I am so thankful that you called in because it just allows me the chance to jump right into saying “Thank you” to all the small clinics that are out there! Small clinics are picking up a lot of the work when it comes to testing. Smaller clinics are the ones that are based in neighborhoods that people have access to. They’re the front line for getting information out to people who might otherwise not feel comfortable going to a larger hospital situation or might not have regular doctors or regular health care. So thank you for your work that you’re doing. And thanks for calling in and congratulations on the vaccines! I think that’s so great! Is it just me, or is it like—when people say they’re vaccinated, the response—all of the responses I see are like, “Yes! Good—woo!” Right? As opposed to, “Fuck you. I don’t have my vaccine yet.” Like I just haven’t seen that. Now I also haven’t seen people in about ten months, so maybe that is happening. But I hope that we all continue to just, y’know, not high-five ‘cause that’s still not necessarily safe, but just congratulate people when they get their vaccine. That’s one more person who’s gonna make it safer for each of us and our loved ones, so good job! So let me just segue right into, thank you, people who have made vaccines, and who are distributing vaccines! There are so many people volunteering to do this work right now? Thank you, hospitals. Thank you, doctor’s offices. Thank you, local community clinics. Thank you to the volunteers and the doctors and the EMTs and the nurses and the RNs, and again—to all of the people who work in all of the places that we go to. Schools. Office buildings. Medical facilities. The grocery stores. The apartments that you live in. The people who keep that clean and running? Are really… really important and just deserve all of our appreciation and thanks. Thank you. Thank you to the teachers. What a crazy time as we’re trying to get schools back open. Again, no one has an easy decision when it comes to whether you want to teach in person or continue remote learning. These are hard choices families and faculty and staff are having to make about what’s best for them and their family? There are no good decisions. So I just wanna say thank you and I see you. And you’re all doing such an amazing job.
biz
I have a cake parenting story to share. Okay. So my oldest, Kat, is in sixth grade. And, y’know, the pandemic has not been the best when it comes [through laughter] to supporting tween-y growth or, y’know, friendships are weird and hard in the best of times. But just this week, we had our very first sort of really important friendship come to an end. And I have to say from like an outside perspective, this wasn’t like, “Oh my god! Somebody stabbed somebody in the back!” Right? [Laughs.] This was just—it just was like a weird set of circumstances that caught Kat really off-guard. Regardless, the point is, I had to sit there and watch my child’s heart break. And y’know, accept the fact [through laughter] that this is just the first of a long line of heartbreaks. Some I’ll know about and some I won’t. And I really hate it. And I just was like, “I don’t know what I’m supposed to do. I don’t know how to help this.” And so the first thing I did was, “Well, I can order sushi for dinner. Because that’s what they like.” So I ordered sushi. And then I opened the freezer and half of my birthday cake was still in it, so I busted out my seven-layer caramel birthday cake. [Laughs.] Then I made sure they got to stay up a little later and watch some of their favorite shows and basically I explained it to Stefan like, “Her emotions were like a dam and I just kept shoving things in different holes.” [Desperately] We’ll just try this! Shove a little toilet paper in there! Did that work? Let’s shove some sushi! How about cake? Cake! But Stefan walked by and was like, “Oh, is there cake?” And I was like, “Oh, we’re cake parenting all the way today. This is 100% a cake parenting week.” And I will admit it did work. It didn’t fix it. I mean, the next day we looked for other ways to distract ourselves and to focus our emotions in a healthy way. But there ya go. Cake parenting. I am glad we invented it. [Laughs.] Again, I don’t think I was quite ready for the shock and surprise of these sort of questions and issues starting to come in to our lives. Or to be confronted with as a parent. Which I think ties in nicely to what we’re gonna talk about today with Angela Joy, whose new book, Black Is a Rainbow Color, was brought on by a very interesting statement by her own child.
music
Banjo strums; cheerful banjo music continues through dialogue.
theresa
Please—take a moment to remember: If you’re friends of the hosts of One Bad Mother, you should assume that when we talk about other moms, we’re talking about you.
biz
If you are married to the host of One Bad Mother, we definitely are talking about you.
theresa
Nothing we say constitutes professional parenting advice.
biz
Biz and Theresa’s children are brilliant, lovely, and exceedingly extraordinary.
theresa
Nothing said on this podcast about them implies otherwise. [Banjo music fades out.] [Biz and Angela repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss the weekly topic.]
biz
This week, we are welcoming Angela Joy, who was born and raised in Minneapolis, Minnesota before graduating Summa Cum Laude from the University of Minnesota. Angela attended New York University and Spellman College. After her move to Los Angeles, California, Angela traveled extensively as a background vocalist, also working in television and movie soundtracks. Currently, Angela is an author, substitute teacher, Girl Scout cookie manager—guess where we’re going to derail on this, everybody!—book club moderator, and music lover. She is the cofounder of the McGaugh International Culture Club. She lives in Southern California but will always call Minneapolis home. Black Is a Rainbow Color is her first book. Welcome, Angela! [Laughs.]
angela
Thank you, Biz! So great to be here with you!
biz
I gotta tell you, that is a impressive bio of— [Andrea laughs.] —a diverse life. I love all of that. Just so you know, I’ve never been the cookie chair. But I am the one who will volunteer to go and distribute cookies, which is a—you have to show up at the Girl Scout cookie place at like 6AM and you like pick your cookies and then you’re shoveling out cookies to people and it’s—and it is a delight.
angela
It is a delight, isn’t it?
crosstalk
Biz: It’s —I love it! Angela: Oh my gosh. It’s so fun.
biz
I know. Mine is no longer a Girl Scout, but luckily—I have connections. Anyhoo, who lives in your house?
angela
In my house I have my husband, my daughter who’s 14, my son who’s 12, and a brand-new baby kitten, Coco Mishu. [Biz laughs.] Who is a giant, actually. He’s 13 points and he’s not a year yet. But he’s a Siamese boy and he has won over the hearts of my non-cat-loving husband and my non-cat-loving daughter! So he gets major props from me.
biz
Well a oversized Siamese cat— [Andrea laughs.] —definitely sounds like it has its charms. [Laughs.] It’s a big boy! He’s a big boy! We have one big boy in this house, too. I love my big boy. Anyway. I talk to cats like children. Alright.
angela
How can you not? They are your children!
biz
It’s how I segued into parenting. [Both laugh.] Alright. I wanna talk to you about—clearly I wanna talk to you about many things. But we are here to talk about—and push the heck out of—your book, Black Is a Rainbow Color. And I’m gonna start with how I found out about it.
angela
Oh, please!
biz
So I don’t have anywhere to go during remote learning. [Laughs.] So my—I have two kids. One is in sixth grade so they can be in their room doing it. My first-grader has to be out where somebody can kind of keep an eye on what’s happening? I have this pathetic little divider that I put around his work desk [through laughter] and then I sit at the table on the other side doing my work. So I hear everything. [Andrea laughs.] And early on in the year, they were doing one of their read-alouds as part of—they do different books during different times. Y’know, sometimes they’re longer, sometimes—whatever. And I suddenly hear your book being read! Black Is a Rainbow Color.
angela
Wow. Wow.
biz
And I got to hear it—not only did I get to listen to it being read by the teacher, I got to hear all the kids’ reactions and responses—
angela
Awww!
biz
And sort of the, like, it’s a mix of first- and second-graders in the same class? And they—like, it was just so great to hear how they all were sort of responding ‘cause at the beginning of first and second and kinder, they do a lot of work in the school they go to with just like, y’know, “Let’s talk about what we look like and who we are” and all this kind of stuff. So this— [Laughs.] Such a great book to be read. So I immediately emailed Gabe and was like, “Gabe! I want—please find me Angela Joy!” So I just want you to know—
angela
Love it.
biz
—‘cause usually we have people on and I’m like, “Go buy books and give them to your school!” [Both laugh.] But this time, the school gave me a book! So with that said, I wanna talk about what led you to write this book because I think it’s a really great story about getting caught off-guard by your daughter. So would you mind sharing that with us?
angela
Not at all! So it was about this time—Black History Month—seven years ago? Yeah. About seven years ago. My daughter was six. My son was four. And so being who I am—like, super anal; must plan every moment of every day for the children— [Biz laughs.] I said, “Well this will be great! We’ll have our first Black History Month together.” [Biz laughs.]
crosstalk
Angela: And so I organized all of the picture books— Biz: Sorry. I am not laughing at Black History Month.
biz
I am laughing at— [Andrea laughs.] —the parenting experience of planning something to be just a certain way because I am also that person? I am also that person. So anyway. Go ahead.
crosstalk
Biz: You got a playlist—you got a—yeah! And they’re gonna love it! Whatever you do, they’re gonna love. ‘Cause it’s gonna be perfect. Angela: [Laughs.] You have big dreams, right? Yes! Of course! It’s gonna be perfect. Well-planned.
angela
I had posters of Rosa Parks. I was very intentional about not talking about slavery. We’re not there yet. We’re gonna only talk about positive things. It was beautiful. I had my lesson plan all planned. So we’re sitting on what we call “the reading bench.” I’m not even three minutes into my speech and my daughter—who’s six—is like, “Mommy, why do you keep calling us ‘black’ when really we’re ‘brown’?” And she put her little hand in my face like I didn’t know what color she was.
crosstalk
Biz: Yeah, duh! Mom! You’re an idiot! Yeah! [Laughs.] Angela: Hello! [Laughs.] Exactly!
angela
Hello, little girl!
biz
“Look, everything that books have told me since birth until six is about colors, farm animals, and shapes. So yeah.” [Andrea laughs.] “This is not black.”
angela
“Get it right, lady! Get it right!” [Biz laughs.] And so y’know, I—in the moment, of course initially I’m irritated. But then I immediately wanna fix it. I wanna smooth it over. And so I start to explain, well, y’know, “Black doesn’t mean ‘black.’” But now I’m realizing how confusing that concept is actually going to be to these children and so I didn’t have a good answer in the moment. We just kind of moved along and played the songs and read the books and I didn’t really know what to do. So I started talking to my girlfriends about it and one of them—who happens to be white—says, “Oh my gosh! My daughter came home saying the same thing!” She had a classmate who is African American and they were doing—as they do, as you mentioned—self-portraits in class. And she says, “Mommy, Jada keeps saying that she’s Black! But she’s holding the brown crayon! How can she be in first grade and she doesn’t even know her colors?” [Biz laughs.] And I was like, “Whoaaaa. There’s something to this!” They are very literal, right, at this age. So from that point I started trying to figure out ways to communicate that Black is a color and a culture, and that’s how this book was born.
biz
When we start off with the culture aspect—which as adults is a concept that is easier to understand either by exposure or experience—but just to say it’s a color. Like, a physical thing? Yeah. Oh yeah. Kids are like, “Nope, not doing it.”
angela
“Forget about it.” And a lot of it had to do with the fact that like—for me, I was raised in the Black community. So it was by osmosis you learn the dual meanings. They didn’t have that. So I had to be intentional about teaching it, which was something I had no clue how to do at the moment.
biz
Oh, that’s so interesting. There’s like… so many layers to this book in what you give us as readers? I wanna start actually with the book itself. The story. You talk about all the things that Black is. From the physical to the intangible. So for example, “Black is a rhythm. Black is the blues.” I love that one. And then it’s “Black is the robe on Thurgood’s back.” So there’s our physical. Were there some parts that were just easy to write, like you knew what it was, and then were there other parts that you found harder or you were surprised were like—‘cause I would imagine that if you start writing “Black is__” there would be times where you’re like, “Is it? Or is this? Or can—or should I?” Or, y’know, like—what—
angela
For sure.
biz
It all carries something. So talk to me about the process of trying to write this.
angela
Well once I had the concept kind of solidified in my brain it started with list-making, which is also a habit of highly A-type people.
biz
Intelligent, brilliant, creative, amazing people? [Andrea laughs.]
crosstalk
Angela: Yes! Let’s do that! Let’s say that. I like it. [Laughs.] Not the other thing. [Laughs.] Biz: That one! Not—not—not people who—yeah, not the other thing. [Laughs.]
angela
So I was making lists and the things that were most common—just the dictionary lists—were all negative. And so I was coming across “Black male; black cat; black magic; blacklisted; black market”—like, there’s a lot of words that have “black” that are negative.
biz
Cowboys in the white. Villains in black. Right? Like— [Laughs.]
angela
Yes! Yes! And not just cowboys! Like if you look at Disney, all the villains have black. Yes. Ursula? Who for me is the queen villain, right? She’s so bad! [Biz laughs.] I love her. All in black, right? So I knew that I didn’t want to go down that road.
biz
Well that road’s been down. [Laughs.] Going down it.
angela
Yeah. You gotta do something else. You gotta do something else. But then when you imagine what kids would be familiar with it gets tricky. So there were a lot of things that I wasn’t able to use—either because it was negative—even references to slavery. Like I didn’t want to go to “Black is the coal in—"
crosstalk
Biz and Angela: “—mines.”
angela
Thank you. Yes. A lot of Black folks worked in mines. And it’s historic, but it’s got that negative connotation so we couldn’t use that. But thankfully, my background is in African-American studies, so it wasn’t too hard to think of positive things? What was interesting to me was how—and I didn’t recognize it until a child asked me the question—but when I talked about Black being—“Black is a raisin, like dreams that are left out in the sun to die”—which is a reference to Langston Hughes—
biz
Yes.
angela
Which is also a reference to the Broadway play—
crosstalk
Angela: —by Lorraine—yes. Raisin in the Sun by Lorraine Hansberry. Biz: A Raisin in the Sun. Yup.
angela
Which is also a reference to the movie Raisin in the Sun with Sidney Poitier and Ruby Dee. What we discovered is that Black is also the inspiration of art that crosses generations and lives with new people making new art. So it’s an artistic heritage in that sense and also in the poem by Paul Laurence Dunbar, “I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings.” This art has inspired other people to create art, including this book, right? So the string that draws all of us through history is itself Black. When we’re talking about art and history and political commentary. Which I thought was great. The kid that asked the question is brilliant. [Biz laughs.] So thank you, wherever you are, sir.
biz
Yeah. Actually that ties so beautifully into what I wanted to ask about next, which was the illustrations. Ekua Holmes is the illustrator. And there’s so much you get to look at.
angela
Mm-hm. Mm-hm.
biz
In this book. There are like layers of collage and color and these very specific shapes and the collage includes things like a raisin in the sun—or—like, from that play. Or the newspaper clippings of the story about Young, Black, and Genius. Right? Like—there is the… oh, sorry, “gifted.” Genius. Gifted. Same thing. Anyway. [Laughs.]
angela
Absolutely!
biz
Absolutely! Sheet music from Nina Simone; maps of the Deep South. I mean like, it was all in there. So I’m—how much did you guys get to collaborate or was this just one of those amazing moments? [Laughs.]
angela
It was the latter.
biz
Really?
angela
We had zero communication.
biz
Wow!
angela
I know. Crazy, right? So—
biz
That’s crazy!
angela
I know! I know! I say it’s kismet. It was absolutely kismet. So I wrote the story and I was lucky enough to help select an ideal illustrator? Luckily at the time Ekua was just bursting into the children’s book industry and so we were able to snag her. But she had two or three books ahead of mine and each book takes a year to illustrate. So there was a lot of time between when I wrote it and when she got it. And so when she got it three years later, she got the text. She worked on it on her own. She and the editor had some communication. But the two of us were actually at a writer’s conference together and there was some hesitation about us, like, hanging out. Like they don’t want me to come and say, “Okay, what’d you do for that—that spread?” [Biz laughs.] “Did you include the map there? ‘Cause I think that’s really important!” Like, they really didn’t want me to harass her, which I would never do, by the way. But some people apparently get into fights. Right? If you’re author/illustrator. So—and she’s all the way in Boston so we have just started to communicate in the past maybe three/four months. Outside of, well, ever. Not even outside of anything. We just started to communicate. [Laughs.]
biz
Well it’s just—it’s so fantastic and it encapsulates your writing and your words. Kismet. Like, so crazy. Perfect.
angela
But she’s also brilliant. Like, she does beautiful work with every author that she works with. I just—she blows my mind. Consistently. And then she created a whole new style for this book that she’d never worked on before. Yeah.
biz
Really? Because that’s unbelievable. Well the style—I might just pull my book out and flip through it.
angela
Come on!
biz
The style sort of changed depending a little bit on adult versus child versus a reference to somebody who was famous to somebody who is just a kid on the street. And I know some have this element of glasswork? Right?
crosstalk
Angela: Mm-hm. Stained glass. Yes. Mm-hm. Biz: Y’know, like—stained glass.
biz
It runs throughout it. And I also—just in talking with other authors and illustrators who are writing and creating books that focus on people of color, I know they have talked about it being a challenge to really illustrate kids that look like African-American kids. Right? That really—that a lot of times authors have gotten the illustrations back or read other books and been like, “Eh.” It’s like that Disney-fied—it’s a Barbie. It’s just a different color Barbie. Right? And you’re like, “I don’t think that was exactly—” [Laughs.] But she’s—she’s just—it’s so good. Alright.
angela
She’s brilliant.
biz
I’m gonna move on because—so good. Alright. Now you give us more than just this book. And I wanna start with the playlist.
angela
Wooo! The playlist! [Laughs.]
biz
[Through laughter] So good. You include, in the back—one of the things you include is the Rainbow Color Playlist. And I know that in talking with my own kids, music has wound up being a really… easy way to start conversations about Civil Rights and even about slavery, depending on like—‘cause we listen to almost everything all the time. And I love finding like modern artists who take old songs and turn them into new songs and folk music and all this stuff. So there’ve been times where we’re singing or listening to something and I can say, y’know, my daughter would say, “I really love this song.” And I can say, “Yeah. This is Miles Davis. Now imagine this—you love this song. You wanna go see him play.” [Andrea laughs.] “He can’t come into the building to watch somebody else like you can. He’s gotta come in a totally separate way and—” I mean, like, it’s just—you get to tie it to the music? So—anyway.
angela
It’s beautiful.
biz
So talk to me about the selection of this playlist for the book.
angela
So again, it is the playlist that I had for my kiddos.
crosstalk
Biz: Is it? Angela: It is. Yes. [Both laugh.]
biz
Oh good. You’re a list saver, as well. [Laughs.]
angela
Of course! [Laughs.]
biz
Yeah, duh!
angela
Yeah! I mean, back in the day—it shows how old it was. But I actually downloaded on a CD and we would listen to it on the way to school! So— [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.] In my car that still has a CD player!
biz
Yesss!
angela
Yesss!
biz
I’m just gonna roll down my window and you can see me doing the hand-crank but this is how I roll down my window. Okay. Go ahead. [Laughs.]
angela
That’s right! Mm-hm! We say air conditioning by A-R-M. That’s right. That’s right. [Both laugh.]
biz
Our cars will not turn on us when our computer overlords take over. [Laughs.]
angela
That’s right. No one’s hacking my system, thank you very much.
biz
That’s right. That’s right.
angela
But it’s the same playlist. It is a timeline of sorts so we start with LadySmith Black Mambazo, who did “Graceland” with Paul Simon. And gosh, when I watch them or listen to them they just—they give me chills every time. So beautiful. So that’s the homeland, and we travel through the ‘20s and ‘30s and ‘40s. We get some Bob Dylan. We get some Nina Simone. We move into Earth, Wind & Fire. And we end with John Legend and Common with a little bit of hip-hop. The purpose is to inform, inspire, and get people to groove a little bit. Because I feel like music is not as rich and deep as it used to be? I know that makes me sound old.
crosstalk
Angela: I’m so sorry. There are exceptions. [Laughs.] There are exceptions, but—yes! But it’s not the same. For me. Biz: I know. We are old. I’m probably older. We’re older. I get it. Some people are trying—yeah. Some people are trying. But. It’s a bit frivolous. [Laughs.]
angela
And so when you look at somebody like Earth, Wind & Fire, whose sole purpose was to uplift people—those bands aren’t around anymore. So I wanted to include those and say, “Hey, y’know, while there is a message here it’s also really fun to dance to.” So it’s uplifting and so I wanted to give that gift to everybody. And it is a great way to introduce culture in classrooms. If you have a morning song? Play that morning song! Let’s learn “Lift Every Voice and Sing.” Just in the background. It doesn’t have to be a punitive thing. “This is our lesson for today.” No! Listen to how beautiful this is! Let’s explore this! It’s a great poetry study! So I just—I agree with you 100%. There’s so much learning that can be done through music so I wanted to give that away.
biz
Yeah, no. I’m with you on the just playing it? Without pointing it out also as, y’know, can carry a lot of important weight that we may not give it enough credit. Right? Like, I do agree. Let’s make a mixtape! Let’s move on. You also—you don’t just give us a playlist. You also include poems as well as a title of Black ethnonyms.
angela
Mm-hm. Mm-hm.
biz
Ethnonyms. And—talk to me about those choices!
angela
So I think that the poetry is—really informs the book itself. I love poetry and because I refer to both Paul Laurence Dunbar and Langston Hughes, I thought it was important to give the kids a sample. Both of these poets, though—in addition to the poems that are in the back of the book—they’re really safe to google. [Biz laughs.] Like you’re not gonna get a lot of skanky mess with Paul Laurence Dunbar and Langston Hughes. [Biz laughs.] So—and now all the kids are on computers doing searches in class, so. You gotta be careful who you recommend. [Laughs.] So they were safe. Beautiful work. Period work, so you can get a lot from what was going on in their time. But also, so much of it is relevant still today. So important to include that. In terms of the ethnonyms, this was something that was not in the original sketch for the book? But I was kinda playing with the idea and I let my editor know that I was considering and she said, “Let’s do it. Let’s absolutely do it.”
biz
Well because—you said it had sat there for three years waiting for the artist. A lot has happened! [Laughs.]
angela
Yeah. A lot has happened.
biz
So with those events, how much impact did that have on any last-minute changes and choosing to include those ethnonyms?
angela
So the ethnonyms were… kind of separate from what was going on in society. However, it was again kismet that there is that page that says, “Black is the power of movement and pain”? And we have the people with the Black Lives Matter sign. It looks like that was just created last year, but in fact it was three years ago when the illustrator created that spread. Which is an indication of how long this has been going on. I think a lot of people are looking at it now and saying, “Oh my gosh!” As they should. But this has been an ongoing problem that we’ve been dealing with for a long time. I think initially the motivation was to—it was actually for non-Black people to understand the history, and to feel comfortable with—like, if you know that there’s been a lot of changes—and obviously we know—but if you know what we know, then maybe you might feel more comfortable saying, “Hey, Ang! What do you prefer? African-American, or Black?” And I appreciate that, ‘cause there have been a lot of changes. And there’s division! There are people in my family who will never be “African-American.” They don’t reply to “African-American.” It’s only “Black.” I can do both. I don’t have a problem with either; I use them interchangeably. But I wanted to get people comfortable with the terms. Also, there’s so much history in the names that we have called ourselves. The names that we have been called—y’know, it was tempting to put it in there and give true definitions and say, “This is a dumb word.” But we tried to stick to more positive things or ways that we defined ourselves. There’s a couple of exceptions that I thought were important, like—did I put “Octaroon” in there? Or… “One-Drop Rule?”
biz
“Hypodescendant.”
angela
Hypodescendant.
biz
Which I’d never heard of hypodescendant.
angela
But have you heard of “The One-Drop Rule”?
biz
No, actually, I haven’t! Which is amazing, given I grew up in the very Deep South. [Laughs.]
angela
Did you really?
biz
Oh, yes. The buckle of the belt. Hypodescendant and the One-Drop Rule, this is—so maybe it’s not new to me, but it’s not something that is in the forefront of my thoughts of like when I think about it. Do you wanna explain it?
angela
Yes! I’d love to! So back in the day, when people who were enslaved were brought to the United States, it’s I think common for us to think that the Black folks hung out with the Black folks and the white folks hung out with the white folks and it was pretty much taboo to mix. Which—it was. It was taboo. But it happened. It happened enough that legislation had to be passed that said, “Hey. If you are a child that has a parent who is white and a parent who is Black, you’re considered Black.” Now why would we have that rule if it wasn’t happening? Right? They wouldn’t have made the rule if it wasn’t becoming a problem. For many states, they said if you were a great-great-great—sometimes -great-child of a Negro, then you were considered Negro. It didn’t matter how you looked; you were Negro. You were still subject to being owned by another human being. And so I think that’s important because—not just to dredge up old history, but the Black community has been welcoming of all shades and hues out of necessity for a very, very long time. So for me growing up, I was never “mixed.” My mom’s white and my dad is Black. I was never “mixed.” I was always “Black.” And sure, people would say, “Mm, now what are you?” [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.] I got that.
biz
That’s such a great question. Hmm.
angela
I know. Especially for children. [Laughs.]
biz
We’re just so good as people, aren’t we? We’re just really making it work out there. [Both laugh.]
angela
Such a hard time. But—but—but I never felt isolated in the Black community. I never felt like the odd man out if I were lighter. And then when I went down South—speaking of the South—for college, I had a good girlfriend who came to my room for the first time and she looked. She said, “What are all these white people doing on your wall?” [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.] I said, “That’s my family! Those are my people! That’s my grandma! And my cousin Shawn!” Like— [Laughs.] But it didn’t make a difference, y’know? As long as I was down. Right? Which of course I am. So— [Biz laughs.] [Laughs.] Y’know. We’re gonna say it.
biz
But that goes right back to where we started at the beginning about culture versus color.
crosstalk
Angela: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Biz: So I think—and that’s—
biz
That’s the thing that can be difficult to express. And now—and I think this also ties in some to what we were just talking about. You had said, y’know, “This is language—I wrote this not for people of color.” It’s for me. Hi! It’s for me! [Both laugh.] I’m white. It’s for me! You dedicate the book to children who ask difficult questions and to—I’m gonna get it wrong—but to adults who are—
crosstalk
Biz: —brave enough to brave the unknown. Angela: Brave the unknown.
biz
And I don’t need to guess what kind of weird questions and hard questions you’ve been asked by children. I know children. [Andrea laughs.] But I wanted to wrap up actually focusing on… adults and the brave unknowns. And… like, what—what are some of those “brave unknowns” and—yeah!
angela
So I think—[sighs.] The book was written for families, obviously, but I really wanted to give this book to educators and librarians. Who really are forming our future. Really. They spend so much time with our kids. But I think oftentimes they’re overworked and it’s a drag on their time and energy to create a new lesson plan. And so I wanted to give this gift to teachers to say, “Hey, this is your Black History unit right here. This is your American History unit right here. You don’t have to do anything more. Play that playlist. Here’s some poetry. And dig into it however you like. Let your creative juices flow.” Because I know that teachers, in their hearts, want to go into that unknown world. To show their kids that everyone is special. That everyone should be celebrated. These are the lessons that I think 99% of teachers want to teach, but many don’t know how or they don’t have time to dig into the other cultures. It’s a lot. It’s a lot to ask. But I feel like if we can catch these kids in kindergarten, first grade, second, third grade—where they can get those seeds planted? That say, “Hey, y’know, Black isn’t all negative.” I remember reading that book that Black is Beautiful. I remember dancing to that song, “Say It Loud - I’m Black and I’m Proud”. Hey listen, I’ve got white kids dancing to “Say It Loud - I’m Black and I’m Proud” every morning this month. [Biz laughs.] Come on! Let’s do it! Let’s learn some James Brown! I’m not mad at that! I’m not mad at that because it plants the seed of acceptance and celebration of others. And so this gift is to those who are willing to do that. Yes, it is absolutely for my people. I want my children; my nephews; my nieces to all feel empowered. I had a girl today tell me, “I love the page of the girl with the braids in her hair because I have braids in my hair.” You don’t see it very often! But she’s looking at that book, and ooh! I could cry right now.
biz
She gets to see herself. I know!
angela
She gets to see herself! And other kids get to see that that is beautiful!
biz
Right. They get to see it. It becomes normal.
angela
Yes.
biz
I know for my kids, I want them to like—if they find themselves sin a room and they look around and everybody’s white? That they should know that’s weird. [Laughs.]
angela
Mmm.
biz
Right? Like, that’s—right, like, “That’s weird.”
angela
Love it.
biz
Angela, it is painfully obvious to everybody that I could just talk with you for hours. [Laughs.]
angela
I’m having such a good time!
biz
Thank you so much for joining us and I really appreciate this book. It fills so many of the holes that were lacking out there? There are some wonderful books out there. But I think that this one is unique in what it offers and—like we tell everybody—y’know, a great way to be involved is to buy. [Laughs.] So people need to go buy this book. They need to go buy three copies. One for them— [Andrea laughs.] —one for their school, and one for their library. ‘K?
angela
Love it. We would appreciate that very much.
biz
Yeah! Well people are always like, “I don’t know what I’m supposed to do!” I’m like, “Go buy a book!” If you’re mad because people aren’t represented, you gotta buy the book! [Andrea laughs.]
angela
Especially in children’s publishing! Can I say that? Because we have to show the publishers that these books will sell. Otherwise they’ll stop printing them. So.
biz
No! I agree! You’ve got to show—you have to show everybody in publishing. I’m sure you’ve been to the parenting aisle. [Andrea laughs.] Lacking—apparently only one type of person can be a parent and give advice about it.
angela
So true. So true. Mm. Unless you’re Beyonce. I’m waiting for her parenting book. When is it coming?
biz
[Through laughter] I don’t know! I’m sure it’s in the works. She’ll probably put out a kid’s book first and then everybody will be like, “All done!” [Both laugh.]
angela
Baes by Bey.
biz
That’s right! [Laughs.] [Andrea laughs.] I would buy this. Anyway—can we get her on the show? Okay. So everybody… go buy this book. And Angela, I hope you continue to write more books that I get to scream and yell and jump up and down about. Thank you so much.
angela
Thank you so much. I can’t wait to share the next one with you. I think you’re gonna love it.
crosstalk
Biz: Yay! Can’t wait! Alright! Absolutely! We’ll talk soon. Bye. Angela: Woop-woop! Thank you Biz! Thank you for having me! It’s been lovely. [Both laugh.]
angela
Alright, my dear. Buh-bye!
music
“Ones and Zeroes” by “Awesome.” Steady, driving electric guitar with drum and woodwinds. [Music fades out.]
music
Cheerful ukulele and whistling plays in background.
biz
One Bad Mother is supported in part by Function of Beauty. Function of Beauty is the world leader in customizable beauty, offering precise formulations for your hair’s specific needs. Tell me all about it, Theresa!
theresa
Okay, guys, I just did this recently and it’s great. And I wanna start by saying it’s vegan and cruelty-free and they never use sulfates or parabens. And you can also choose to go completely silicone-free if you want. So what you do is you go to their website and you take a quiz about your specific hair needs, but also, like, your preferences! Like the smell amount that you want and the type of smell and the color. [Biz laughs.] And they send it to you in the mail and it has your name—
biz
I know!
theresa
Not just like on the box but like printed on the bottle. Like, my kids thought this was so cool. But I will admit—I felt so special.
biz
Never buy off-the-shelf just to be disappointed again. Go to FunctionOfBeauty.com/badmother to take your quiz and save 20% off your first order. That applies to their full range of customized hair, skin, and body products.
theresa
Go to FunctionOfBeauty.com/badmother to let them know we sent you. And get 20% off your order.
theresa
Hey, you know what it’s time for! This week’s genius and fails! This is the part of the show where we share our genius moment of the week, as well as our failures, and feel better about ourselves by hearing yours. You can share some of your own by calling 206-350-9485. That’s 206-350-9485.
biz
Genius fail time, Theresa. Poof! [Theresa laughs.] You’re back again!
theresa
Hellooo!
biz
One of these days I’m gonna say it and you’ll just like appear but like in a towel? And your hair will be wet?
theresa
Like, “Oh! Hey!” Yeah.
biz
Lucky—lucky would I be if that was the case. That said, welcome. It’s nice to see you.
crosstalk
Theresa: Thank you! It’s nice to see you, too. Biz: You’re welcome.
biz
Like everybody needs to understand this legitimately is the first time I see Theresa for each show. Like, we pop up on Zoom and I say—
theresa
I know. And this—we haven’t really talked this week. I feel like I maybe haven’t talked to you since last… last week?
biz
Like a while. Since the last show!
theresa
It’s weird. It’s a weird feeling. I didn’t like it.
biz
It’s very odd. And so that’s why this has just become a real weird thing. [Both laugh.] The show has kind of got parts now. Anyway, with that said—genius me.
clip
[Dramatic, swelling music in background.] Biz: Wow! Oh my God! Oh my God! I saw what you did! Oh my God! I’m paying attention! Wow! You, mom, are a genius. Oh my God, that’s fucking genius! [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective genius moments of the week.]
theresa
Okay. I will. And I have a cake parenting genius for you today, Biz.
biz
This is the year of cake parenting!
theresa
It is! This is the year of cake parenting. So. It was… a day or two after Curtis—my four-year-old’s—birthday. And Biz was kind enough to be our birthday fairy again for Curtis and delivered a beautiful Death Star-themed cake.
biz
It was grey. Like a Death Star. [Laughs.]
theresa
So grey. It was the funniest cake color ever. But it was a major hit, obviously. And so we still had some left over and I don’t know what was going on. It was like a day or two after the birthday and I know that Curtis was occupied and Gracie was occupied. And I really had my sights set on like some kitchen chores that really probably only needed 20 minutes? But like I just needed to do it. Like I needed to do it with my music on and I needed to be in there by myself— [Biz laughs.] —and I just needed to do it.
biz
Kitchen chores; aka, masturbation. [Laughs.]
theresa
Yeah. Thank you. Yes. Yeah. Just imagine that that’s what I’m talking about.
biz
“I need to do some kitchen chores. Right now.”
theresa
“By myself. By myself, in my bedroom.” [Laughs.]
biz
“With some music on!” [Laughs.] Alright. Sorry. I’m sorry. Go—please continue.
theresa
No, never be sorry. [Biz laughs.] And then Oscar wandered in. And… he wanted to see what I was doing. [Biz laughs.] And talk to me about things. And was annoyed that I wasn’t like doing an entertaining tap dance for him, I guess. And I just remembered cake parenting, guys. Like, I just—it popped into my head. And I just said, “Would you like a slice of cake?” [Biz laughs.] And he said, “Cake?! Yeah! Yeah!” And I sliced him a fat triangle of cake—
crosstalk
Theresa: —that you can pick up with a hand— Biz: Yeah! A wedge!
theresa
A wedge. Thank you.
biz
You’re welcome.
theresa
A wedge of cake. [Biz laughs.] Put it on a plate. Got him some water or something. Set him up at the table. And then went back to what I was doing. And it worked. I got the time I needed. He wasn’t talking to me. He was happy with his cake. We were—we were good. We were good. All was well.
biz
Good job!
theresa
Thank you.
biz
Good job, mother bear! Or mother badger! All of our children’s books in which parents are just like giving cake to kids. Good job!
theresa
Thank you.
biz
Year of cake parenting! So good. I… have started the garden again. Which is something I always like to do this time of year and then slowly let it fall apart— [Theresa laughs.] —over the ungodly heat of the summer. But it’s physical—y’know, here’s the thing I was discussing with my therapist today, Theresa. ‘K. You ready?
theresa
Yeah. Lay it on me.
biz
This whole pandemic time has not left a lot of room for there to be… choices that I can just make and have control over. Y’know?
theresa
Oh, ain’t that the truth.
biz
Y’know, where it’s like, “Oh, do we need to take care of X, Y, and Z? Here’s my plan! Boop, boop, boop! Done!” None of that. I’ve just been floating free— [Laughs.] Free without a plan—
crosstalk
Biz: —that I could execute—right! Theresa: That’s not you. Yeah.
biz
And so just like puzzles, I get to show those puzzle pieces who are boss—who is boss, is English. A garden, I can control you, Mother Earth. This little plod—I get to say where you go! Until I ignore you and the ants come! Anyway. Geniuses just have to happen for a moment, guys. [Laughs.]
theresa
No, that is genius. Good job!
biz
Thank you.
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Hey, guys! I am calling with a genius, which is exciting ‘cause they’re rare. My kids hate getting out of the bathtub and every night is a debate over who’s gonna get out first and neither of them wanna get out and the water will be completely gone and they’re just sliding around in there— [Both laugh.] —arguing with each other about who’s gonna get out first. But they love picking music. So like when we’re in the car I let them pick a song if I wanna keep ‘em awake. [Biz laughs.] So I thought, y’know, I had my phone in the bathroom with us while we’re doing bath time, so whoever gets out first gets to pick their song. Thinking back to like my baseball days when the pitcher got to pick their exit—or their entrance song? I was like, “You guys get an exit song! Whoever gets out first gets to pick their exit song!” So they get to pick what song they get to jam to while they get out of the tub. And now they fight over who gets out first. I don’t know if it’s a genius ‘cause we just changed problems? [Biz laughs.] But it’s made it more fun. There’s a soundtrack now. So that’s cool. Anyways. I’m doing alright tonight, and I hope you guys are, too. Love you guys and your show and you’re doing a great job! Thanks! Bye.
biz
You’re doing a good job and I’m pretty sure that a Webster’s Dictionary, under “genius,” it says, “Just changing the problem.” [Laughs.]
theresa
Yeah. So true. So true.
biz
Right? Like just—
theresa
“You got a new problem now! Good job not having to deal with that old problem anymore.”
biz
You have a new problem, this time with music. So that makes it better. Good job!
theresa
Good job.
biz
I think you’re doing a stellar job and I just like the idea of entrance and exit music overall. And therefore that is how I will be making my way through the rest of this pandemic. Failures.
clip
[Dramatic orchestral music plays in the background.] Theresa: [In a voice akin to the Wicked Witch of the West] Fail. Fail. Fail. FAIL! [Timpani with foot pedal engaged for humorous effect.] Biz: [Calmly] You suck! [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective failures of the week.]
biz
Fail me, Theresa.
theresa
Okay. So Gracie, my nine-year-old’s, school is about to start doing a one-day-a-week in-person thing? And that’s fine. The kids have to have a negative COVID test before they go, which is fine. I… made the appointment and then last night when I was doing like the schedule for the day, I didn’t have my phone. I had left my phone in like another room and I was too lazy? I was like, “I know what’s happening on Friday. The same shit that always happens on Friday.” [Biz laughs.] And I set up the schedule and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I just—usually when I do that, I later at least have the sense to go and double-check the calendar and just make sure there wasn’t something I was forgetting? But I never did that, and then today I got the notice—the appointment notice. Like you know my calendar does the ten minutes before it’s supposed to start reminder? [Biz laughs.] And I was like, “Oh, yeah.” This thing we’re doing—it’s like across town—
crosstalk
Theresa: There’s no—and plus, like— Biz: You’re not making it.
theresa
—the preparation of “We’re gonna go do—” I mean, just nothing. By the time I remembered and saw it, there was zero chance that we would make it. So— [Biz laughs.] Whatever. I will make another appointment and we will do it. But it’s just one of those… y’know? Like, I could’ve—we could’ve done it. I just needed to look at my calendar to see that that would’ve been happening.
biz
Yeah. God, you’re doing a horrible job. I mean, I think we should just line people up and have them point at you. [Theresa laughs.] And say, “Shame, shame! Shame, shame!”
theresa
Yeah. “Shame, shame.”
biz
Oh well. [Theresa laughs.] Alright. So Kat and I—Thursday night is our TV, watch-a-little-something night. And we’ve had a few projects that we’ve worked our way through and then we were left without anything to watch. So I just—we’re scanning through the Netflix and I come upon the new Charmed. And I’m like, “You know what? Kat really likes witchy stuff. They’re into the witch stuff.” I remember the original Charmed. It was alright. I mean, I didn’t’ watch it as much; maybe one or two episodes. But it’s no Nancy Drew. I’m not making the same mistake I made when we watched the CW’s Nancy Drew. Which was terrifying, okay? So we started it— [Laughs.] It is definitely not appropriate. Like, it’s very good and wow have they taken on a feminist, like, stance on everything from witches to—I mean, the whole thing is just me—in fact, the theme of the first three episodes are about an assault on campus. ‘K? And so like we’re—a lot’s coming out of this? Including two to three episodes in—‘cause we went two to three episodes in! We, y’know, a horrible monster. Like a horrible—yeah, you’re gonna have a hard time sleeping if you look at it. A lot of sex. Just like a lot of sex. Which again, sex is—yay, sex! It’s not like we don’t talk about those things. I just was like, “This is a lot!” They’re mixing messages of happy sex and bad sex and like, I’m not ready to have all of these discussions?
theresa
It’s a lot. Yeah. It’s a lot.
biz
It was a lot. So we’ve stopped. But like— [Laughs.] Just cut it right off at the— [Theresa laughs.] —at the witchcraft. I’m a little bummed ‘cause I was kind of digging it, but eh. There ya go. That’s the fail. Once again, cannot seem to pick shows for my children to watch.
theresa
Or just media in general. I’m thinking back to the recent book that you shared with Kat.
biz
Yeah. I’m—yeah! Oh! You’re right! Good point! Yeah. That’s— [Theresa laughs.] I’m not doing much of a good job with that one.
theresa
Is that a new segment for this, where we share a fail and we each remind each other of one of our past fails? [Biz laughs.] Is that good? Is that helping?
biz
Oh, that would be really helpful. [Laughs.] That would be… [Theresa laughs.] “This week on a very special One Bad Mother, we look back and remind each other all of our failures.” [Laughs.]
theresa
We just each have a list of only the other person’s fails and we just go down the line?
biz
Yeah. I’m just gonna start with coffee. With coffee.
crosstalk
Theresa: My baby’s drinking coffee? Yeah. Biz: With all of your baby children. Yeah.
biz
Your baby’s drinking coffee. It’s a good one. It’s a classic. It let you guys know who we were as people.
theresa
Early on. Yeah.
biz
Oh, let’s feel better and listen to somebody else fuck it up. [Laughs.]
theresa
Yeah.
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] This is a fail. I have a four-year-old who is going to a new school that celebrates the holidays and does Valentine’s Day and Christmas and all of that stuff and I was super on top of it and bought valentines when I went to the grocery store the other day and we filled it out as an activity yesterday on January 24th and I put them to the side so that I would have them ready. And I was like, “Okay. Don’t forget them on Valentine’s Day party day!” And my kid is so excited—and I’m so early with stuff—that my kid is bringing his Valentine’s Day and is probably going to have a shit-fit about giving them to kids today on January 25th. So I was so on top of shit that now we’re blowing our load a little too early. [Biz laughs.] My kid is a little premature with the Valentine’s Day festivities. Sometimes you’re too late, sometimes you are two weeks too early. And I’m probably just going to have to do it again the night before. Bye.
theresa
Yeah. This is a practice run, is what you gave yourself.
biz
Good job!
theresa
You’re gonna get to do it again. [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.]
biz
Yeah! That is good foresight. You will—I can see all of this unfold. I can see the raising of your self-esteem by getting them early. Doing the activity. “Look at us! We’re doing it!” And then your child just being like, “We’re not going any further until I take these into school.” Right? Like, “I don’t understand what you mean by waiting ‘til February? That doesn’t make sense!”
theresa
“As far as I know, February doesn’t even exist, so I’m gonna bring these now. It’s—they’re ready.”
biz
“And if you say no, I’m gonna really be upset. And this could spiral into something that’s exhausting for you. Just giving you a heads-up, parent.” [Theresa laughs.] “I’m gonna flip out in a way that’s gonna really take its toll on you. So y’know.” Yeah. This is—I will say, good job just going with it. Good job just letting that kid take ‘em into school and not trying to have a logical discussion about it with a five-year-old or however old. Anybody under the age of 22, really. Just let ‘em have their valentines.
theresa
Plus I feel like at this stage in this fail, we can still say, “Maybe it’ll be fine.”
biz
Oh yeah! “Maybe it’ll be fine!”
theresa
You never know! Might be fine! [Laughs.]
biz
We don’t know! [Laughs.] I’m laughing with hope. [Laughs.]
theresa
Me, too!
music
“Mom Song” by Adira Amram. Mellow piano music with lyrics. You are the greatest mom I’ve ever known. I love you, I love you. When I have a problem, I call you on the phone. I love you, I love you. [Music fades out.]
music
Up-tempo keyboard music plays in background.
theresa
One Bad Mother is supported in part by Bombas. Bombas is dedicated to making the most comfortable socks in the history of feet.
biz
Guys? I’m just gonna quickly tell you how much I love the Bombas socks. They actually stay on my feet. The little no-show socks? I love them. And they’re comfortable for freaking ever. But I really wanna actually make sure that everybody remembers that Bombas—their socks do more than keep feet cozy. Every pair of socks you purchase, Bombas donates a pair to someone in need. And the generosity of Bombas’s customers has allowed them to donate forty million pairs of socks and counting.
theresa
Give a pair when you buy a pair and get 20% off your first purchase at Bombas.com/badmother. That’s B-O-M-B-A-S.com/badmother for 20% off your first purchase.
promo
John C. McGinley: Hey, kid. Your dad tell you about the time he broke Stephen Dorff’s nose at the Kids' Choice Awards? [Audience laughs.] Music: Upbeat, funky rock. Andrew Reich: In Dead Pilots Society, scripts that were developed by studios and networks, but were never produced, are given the table reads they deserve. Will Forte: When I was a kid, I had to spend my Christmas break filming a PSA about angel dust. So yeah, being a kid sucks sometimes! [Audience laughs.] Andrew Reich: Presented by Andrew Reich and Ben Blacker. Dead Pilots Society. Twice a month on MaximumFun.org. Echoing Background Voices: Dead Pilots Society... Sage Ryan: You know, the show you like. That hobo with the scarf who lives in a magic dumpster? [Audience laughs. Scattered applause.] [Music fades out.] John Hodgman: ...Doctor Who? Sage Ryan: Yeah! [Audience laughs and applauds as the clip fades out.]
promo
Music: Jazzy saxophone plays in background. Annabelle Gurwitch: Hi! Are you someone who thinks that when one door closes, another one opens? Laura House: Someone who always sees the light at the end of the tunnel? Annabelle: If you answered “yes” to one or both of these questions, good for you! Laura: We are not those people. Annabelle: Nope! I’m Annabelle Gurwitch and I’m a “Y’know that other door opening? It probably leads to a broom closet” kind of person. Laura: And I’m Laura House. When I see a light at the end of a tunnel, I assume it’s a train headed right toward me! Annabelle: Laura and I have created a brand-new podcast for people like us! It’s called Tiny Victories. We’re sharing personal tiny victories or things we’ve read or seen that inspire resilience. Laura: So if you’re looking for a tiny reason to get out of bed each week, subscribe to Tiny Victories. Annabelle: Available on Maximum Fun, or wherever you get your podcasts! Laura: Let’s get tiny! [Music fades out.]
biz
Everybody? Cozy up. Slip on a mask. And let’s settle in together— [Laughs.] And listen to a mom have a breakdown.
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Hi, One Bad Mother. This is a rant. I was just taking a shower and I noticed that my legs are covered in bruises. Covered! From head to toe. As a result of my toddler. Who is constantly jumping on me or… tripping me or hanging on me or her crap is everywhere and I’m running into it and knocking my legs and knees into it and I have bruises all over my legs. My upper legs are all bruised from holding her, because it’s right where her feet are and she kicks her feet while I’m carrying her. And I just am so tired. [Laughs.] And I just… want to have nice legs back. Without bruises on them. And I know this is stupid and trivial when we have a pandemic going on, but I think this might just be the thing that pushes me over the edge and completely breaks me right now. [Sniffles.] Anyways. Thank you for listening. I guess I will [deep breath] just walk around with crazy, bruised-looking legs for the rest of my life. [Biz laughs.] Thanks. Bye.
biz
First of all, you’re doing a good job. Second, here’s some good news: as your child gets older, the bruises really are not as all-encompassing. It’s more like you get in the shower and there’s just one weird bruise on your thigh. [Theresa laughs.] And you’re like, “How did that bruise get there? Like, that’s a big bruise! That looks like I ran into the corner of the coffee table, but I didn’t. How did I get that?” And that—surprise!—I’m going through that experience right this very minute. [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] In fact, I’m pretty sure we’ve discussed this before as one of my fails. Because I’m with you. That feeling of getting in the shower and just seeing your body so impacted by a child being in your life in this, like, way that no one tells you, A, they’re even gonna do that. Right? Like, no one says, “Hey! Chapter 3 of What To Expect When You’re Expecting: Mysterious Bruised Legs!” [Through laughter] That’s just—and then you get ‘em and yeah! It’s not—it’s not a look that makes you feel together? Right? Like it is! It is like… kind of… what is the word I’m looking for? It’s not debilitating.
theresa
I just wanna add that I feel like there is like a sad… parent acceptance about it? Like—
biz
Yes!
theresa
Because it’s not your kid’s fault and it’s just something about how they’re—we’re not like—it’s like the opposite of what we would say to ourselves in another situation, which is like, “What I’m doing right now doesn’t feel good to my body. This doesn’t feel good. I’m not—” Like, “I don’t like getting bruises all over my legs. I’m gonna—boundaries. I’m not gonna engage in this.” It’s like, you don’t really get to do that when it’s your own toddler— [Biz laughs.] —just doing toddler stuff and you’re an actively involved parent and that’s awesome. It’s very demoralizing? Is the word, maybe?
biz
That’s the word I wanted to use earlier! Demoralizing!
theresa
Okay.
biz
Because you have a toddler. They’re a lot. At the end of the day—or when you wake up in the morning—and the sort of emotional… like… fatigue hits you from all the nonstop shark parenting you’ve had to be doing, just the constant moving, constant engaging, constant emotional regulation, constant keeping them alive, constant—oh, and there’s dinner and there’s your own life and there’s work and there’s—blahhh, right? All of that is exhausting and then you get naked in the shower and you’re like— [Theresa laughs.] “Oh, shit.” Like, “Ohhh, dammit!” And physically, this is—ehhh! Right? Like, so I—I just… I just want to say, you are such a good parent. You’re doing such a good job. And it is within your right to like—I know the whole, like… comparing things like this to larger conflicts and situations that are in the world? Yeah. No. It’s not the same as a pandemic. No one—no one is accusing you of trying to compare it to a pandemic! It just sucks. And you get to fucking hate it. So… y’know. And that doesn’t take away from the suck that is the pandemic. You are doing a remarkable job.
theresa
Yes, you are.
biz
Theresa?
theresa
Yes.
biz
You’re doing a very good job!
theresa
Thank you, Biz. So are you.
biz
Oh, thank you. Was there less crying this week? I had less crying this week. How was your week? Less crying? More crying? Same crying?
theresa
I’ve had… uh… [Biz laughs.] I haven’t had a lot of crying this week. No. I’ve had a lot of—
biz
More of a general numbness?
theresa
No, I’ve had more of like a frozen state of… fear. Yeah.
biz
Oh! Yeah. Mine’s more “Less crying, more of a ‘everybody watch out. I’m about to say what I really think to you right now!’” Staaaah! I’m about to treat you like a fool on the Subway! [Laughs.] Like I just—so. Good! Glad to hear it.
theresa
Yes!
biz
I will talk to you next week.
theresa
See you then!
biz
Bye!
theresa
Bye! [Biz laughs.]
biz
Oh, boy. This show was a joy. Guys? First of all, as always it is a pleasure to see Theresa and I just am so thankful I get to see her at least once a week. And what did we learn today? Well, let’s get the silly one out of the way first. Cake solves all parenting problems. So cake parenting—still very impactful. But what we also learned was the importance of putting a new light, a new story, pulling the positive sort of expressions of words and of language into how we talk to each other. Into how we explain to each other. Black Is a Rainbow Color is so great because—yeah, look. It doesn’t erase all of the negative connotations associated with the word “Black.” Nothing can do that. [Laughs.] But what it does is it offers a different way to start the conversation. It offers us a new tool in our arsenal in our work to be anti-racist. To have open discussions with our children. To make all of these things normal, normal, normal when it comes to who we see in books. And again, this book in particular is such a gift because it is a wonderful resource for librarians or teachers to use for Black History Month or any month? [Laughs.] The playlist is also awesome, as is the poetry. But the story itself is such a delight and the illustrations are also just remarkable. You can spend a lot of time just absorbing the art that is in this book. So we’ll make sure everybody knows where they can get a copy for themselves and their school and their library. [Singing] I love you, libraries! Liiibrarians! [Regular voice] ‘Cause sometimes we don’t get to see these in the schools! And—so yeah! You guys know how I feel about libraries. And they are so important and I love you. I love you, librarians. I do. I’m looking really engagingly at a Zoom camera to make sure that you can really feel how much I love you. Everybody? You’re doing a very good job. Again—timely, not timeless—but right now a lot of people in America are dealing with multiple crisises. One on top of the other. There is a terrible winter storm. That is consuming most of the country. There is, sadly, sometimes we don’t discover it or care about it until it’s too late, a real problem with the infrastructure in many parts of our country, and that tends to impact our communities of color more than other communities. People are without power. They are without water. For days. And there is a pandemic. And there are people who need power? For medical resources and medical reasons in their own home. And I just—is it a lot on top of a lot on top of a lot? And it is very easy and within [through laughter] your right to feel completely done. But I want you to know that you are doing a good job. You really and truly are. And I see you? And… I will be here to talk to you again next week. Bye!
music
“Mama Blues” by Cornbread Ted and the Butterbeans. Strumming acoustic guitar with harmonica and lyrics. _I got the lowdown momma blues_ Got the lowdown momma blues Gots the lowdown momma blues The lowdown momma blues Gots the lowdown momma blues Got the lowdown momma blues You know that’s right [Music fades somewhat, plays in background of dialogue.]
biz
We’d like to thank MaxFun; our producer, Gabe Mara; our husbands, Stefan Lawrence and Jesse Thorn; our perfect children, who provide us with inspiration to say all these horrible things; and of course, you, our listeners. To find out more about the songs you heard on today’s podcast and more about the show, please go to MaximumFun.org/onebadmother. For information about live shows, our book and press, please check out OneBadMotherPodcast.com.
theresa
One Bad Mother is a member of the Maximum Fun family of podcasts. To support the show go to MaximumFun.org/donate. [Music continues for a while before fading out.]
music
A cheerful ukulele chord.
speaker 2
Comedy and culture.
speaker 3
Artist owned—
speaker 4
—Audience supported.
About the show
One Bad Mother is a comedy podcast hosted by Biz Ellis about motherhood and how unnatural it sometimes is. We aren’t all magical vessels!
Join us every week as we deal with the thrills and embarrassments of motherhood and strive for less judging and more laughing.
Call in your geniuses and fails: 206-350-9485. For booking and guest ideas, please email onebadmother@maximumfun.org. To keep up with One Bad Mother on social media, follow @onebadmothers on Twitter and Instagram.
Get in touch with the show
onebadmother@maximumfun.org
@OneBadMothers
@onebadmothers
How to listen
Stream or download episodes directly from our website, or listen via your favorite podcatcher!
