TRANSCRIPT One Bad Mother Ep. 373: There Are Many Creative Ways to Get a Kid in Your House with Mary Fagot

Biz is joined by creative director Mary Fagot to talk about her fertility and creative work. As we have always said, there are a lot of ways to get a kid in your house. Mary tells us how her daughter got into her house and what she learned along the way. She also gives us the scoop on a new educational program that she created with the band OK Go, OK Go Sandbox. Plus, Biz wants silence and Theresa is back for a visit. 

Podcast: One Bad Mother

Episode number: 373

Guests: Mary Fagot

Transcript

biz ellis

Hi. I’m Biz.

theresa thorn

And I’m Theresa.

biz

Due to the pandemic, we bring you One Bad Mother straight from our homes—including such interruptions as: children! Animal noises! And more! So let’s all get a little closer while we have to be so far apart. And remember—we are doing a good job.

music

“Summoning the Rawk” by Kevin MacLeod. Driving electric guitar and heavy drums. [Continues through dialogue.]

biz

This week on One Bad Mother, there are many creative ways to get a kid in your house. We talk to creative director Mary Fagot about fertility and creative work. Plus, Biz wants silence and Theresa is back for a visit.

crosstalk

Biz and caller: Woooo!

caller

I don’t know if you’re still taking woos, but you mentioned the other day that you love them and I wanted to woo with you and I was camping with no reception the week that you were officially doing the woos? So I just thought I would call and leave one. Just in case, ‘cause I’ve been wooing with you every week for seven years and I just wanted to really do it. My weeks are going… okay? They’re—it’s really—“Okay,” I think, is just right— [Biz laughs.] —‘Cause they’re really variable. For the first time in my life, I got fired from my job. Well, I mean, it was technically because of COVID. They didn’t need me anymore because their business hasn’t gone back up, even though it’s an essential business with outpatients. Medical. And they weren’t having as many patients. But they fired me in an email so that was really nice. But then, also, I just self-published an eBook of a children’s story that I wrote and illustrated, which is something I’ve—so outside my comfort zone that I never planned on doing in my life, so that was amazing. I just did that. And we’re gonna be rescuing a new dog, and then also we’re planning for the online school. Online school starts next year. I mean—next week. [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.] For the next year. It didn’t go so well for us in the spring. [Biz laughs.] So I’m trying real hard to hype that one up in a positive way, but I’m glad I have you guys here every week. I can listen to you and be together in this craziness. So thanks! Bye. [Biz laughs.]

biz

Thank you! Yeah! “Okay” seems like the exact word [through laughter] to describe what’s going on. “Okay” really is, I think, the perfect word these days. Because sometimes we say, “Eh, everything’s okay” and it’s not? Like you’re getting fired from an email. Wow. Eh, that’s… [deep breath] pretty gross. But it’s also okay because you got pushed out of your comfort—I love the “getting pushed out of your comfort zone”! That is awesome! That is so awesome. Good job doing that! I just think that is—that is incredible? Yay! Yay! And also for rescuing a dog! I… love it. I love it. You’re doing amazing. And as always, no one’s doing anything at anybody. This is good stuff! I am so… I am so… impressed. You’re doing great! And—eh. Who knows. Who knows about online school. How’s online school going for everybody, guys? [Laughs.] It’s… okay? [Laughs.] Man. It is such a crazy, like, wavelength of how it’s going for people with school. In our three weeks of online school—first week, Ellis punched the computer. The second week, Ellis threw a hacky-sack at the computer, which I thought was an improvement. And this week, no one punched a computer. Including myself. At least in our house. Katy Belle’s just in her room doing—I hope—school. I hope she’s doing school. But I don’t know. I have a friend who—it’s not going well at all. Not even a little. ‘K? And… some people seem to be born to be remote-taught. And every day it changes! And that’s—ahhhh! I don’t like that! I would like some consistency with things either sucking or being great. [Laughs.] Just so I could know what was happening when I woke up in the morning. Speaking of consistency, let me take a moment and say—thank you, thank you, thank you to essential workers. You’re still essential! Guess what? COVID is still here. Nothing has changed. Nothing has changed! [Laughs.] It’s just—guys. Guys. I need to be really clear. The coronavirus is a horrible, horrible thing. And it makes people very sick. And it has killed and threatens to continue to kill people all over the world. And… many people have suffered incredible loss over the last six months related to this. Not just the incredible loss of the lives of people that they loved? But also in… the loss of normalcy. And… it’s not normal, and we’re all still in it, and I know we are all doing our best to show up every day. And… showing up every day, though, should not make us numb to this still being something that impacts us greatly. We still need masks. We still need to pay attention to science.

biz

We still need to thank all the people out there who are working so hard to keep us safe? Whether that be making sure the places we go are clean, and sanitized; showing up—nurses, doctors—school nurses! School nurses? I love you! I love you! You’re doing—God! I—great. Great. Now you are officially president of all questions everybody has at school about the coronavirus. So you’re welcome. So thank you, teachers. Wooo! Patience. The patience I have seen from our teachers is next level. It’s next level. Principals? Just… everyone. Everyone, thank you, thank you, thank you. And those who continue to find creative and new ways to make the world accessible to all of us during this time. Be it farmer’s markets that will deliver food to you—and all the delivery people! Golly! Everybody? You’re doing a great job! I really appreciate you and see you. Thank you, thank you. Lastly, I’ll just tell you guys—I’m doing mehh! Blech, blech, blech, blech, blech. I am tired and I… am really over all of this. I’m over it. In particular, I am over listening to children. The voice of children. I do not find peace in the voice of children and [through laughter] Katy Belle is in her room, so I don’t have to listen to the voices of children. But there is no space in our house for me to be anywhere else during Ellis’s remote learning? Even though I have a little divider in the den to divide him? That doesn’t divide the noise and he doesn’t wanna wear headphones. So when I say I understand the patience that my teachers are extending to kids? I mean it. Because two minutes into—[high-pitched voice] ”I don’t know where my folder is! What do I do if I don’t have this? Hi! Can I just tell you about a building I saw in a dream once?” [Laughs.] Ahhh! Woo! I just—hoo, hoo. Hoo. I— [Laughs.] Ohmygod. Oh my god. Blech. So, like our guest wooer said, everything’s okay. Speaking of okay, let’s settle back and have a wonderful discussion with our guest, creative director Mary Fagot, who also was the creative director on many of OK Go’s music videos! And talk to her about her fertility journey as well as how to remain creative in these very special times.

music

Banjo strums; cheerful banjo music continues through dialogue.

theresa

Please—take a moment to remember: If you’re friends of the hosts of One Bad Mother, you should assume that when we talk about other moms, we’re talking about you.

biz

If you are married to the host of One Bad Mother, we definitely are talking about you.

theresa

Nothing we say constitutes professional parenting advice.

biz

Biz and Theresa’s children are brilliant, lovely, and exceedingly extraordinary.

theresa

Nothing said on this podcast about them implies otherwise. [Banjo music fades out.] [Biz and Mary repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss the weekly topic.]

biz

This week, I am speaking with Mary Fagot, who is a creative director and director with a sharp eye, a love for compelling stories, and a strong belief in mixing high and low. For over 20 years, she has gone where the work is the most meaningful; having created with museums, foundations, bands, and brands from the Smithsonian to the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative; from Google to OK Go and Robyn. Welcome, Mary! [Laughs.]

mary

Thank you so much! Nice to be here in my house. [Biz laughs.] Looking at you on a screen. [Laughs.]

biz

Actually, I want to start with asking you what we ask all our guests, which is—who lives [through laughter] in your house? Where we all are these days. [Laughs.]

mary

That’s right! I live full-time in my house. And my husband Jesus lives here as well. All the time. [Biz laughs.] And our four-and-a-half-year-old daughter Anna lives here. And at the moment, we also have two other kids, a five- and a five-and-a-half-year-old, and our wonderful teacher, Hannah, who is watching them. Minding their development. And doing like nine jazillion other things. So we have a little kind of kindergarten pod going.

biz

Whoa! I gotta tell you, you’re my first pod that I’ve talked to. And you’re going full pod! With a teacher and… more than one child. ‘Cause I kinda liked the idea at first before you said there was a teacher? That the five-and-a-half-year-old was just in charge by age? [Mary laughs.] Right? Like, five-and-a-half-year-old’s like [claps to get attention] “Guys?”

mary

Well, it’s just who’s on top, really . [Biz laughs.] Who’s on the king of the mountain? That’s basically would be it, yeah.

biz

That’s right! So—good job. Doing the pod. Because—

mary

Thank you! I feel great about it for myself and my daughter. I feel very, like, wow. We’re moving into this funky world where my privacy and privilege lets me get away with, y’know, stuff that not a lot of people can. And at the same time I know everybody’s being resourceful with what they’ve got to deal with, so it’s a balance. And I go back and forth.

biz

It is a balance. But I think we… just as a mental exercise, for years on this show, have really and— [Laughs.] have been—it’s been resurfacing in myself, being so at home all the time, is this notion that no one’s doing anything at you. Right? Like… it’s—and the moment like a kid comes into your house, that becomes a narrative. That just begins spinning in your head all the time. “Your kid sleeps?” Y’know, like—“What are—” No one’s child is sleeping at you. [Mary laughs.] If I made a weird felt mushroom for a kid—another kid today—and it’s okay, but I’m not making this mushroom at you.

crosstalk

Mary: Right. I do not feel any less of a woman because of your felt mushroom. Biz: Yeah! Don’t—yeah, don’t be less.

biz

I didn’t have eight hours to make it. I’m not— [Mary laughs.] —y’know. Like, it’s—but I think especially now in this really weird environment that we’re living in, I think it’s also though important to be like, “Good job—good job! Making—y’know—ahh! Good job!” So good job! Well, how… did you get a four-year-old into your house? [Laughs.]

mary

Oh! Right! How did this four-year-old get here?

biz

I know how you got a teacher. [Through laughter] How’d you get a four-year-old? [Laughs.] [Mary laughs.]

mary

This four-year-old—I really feel like—I had to go searching for this four-year-old. I had to go to all ends of the universe to get this four-year-old and it turns out I found her? Even though she was hard to find. So I had been married before, and my current husband and I got together when I was already into freezing eggs and that kind of thing. I was like 39 and, y’know, was getting on there and I knew that was something I wanted in my life. So when we met I basically told him, like, “Hey, I’m already on this path? If you wanna join me, cool, but like—” [Biz laughs.] “—literally right now at this time in my life this is where I’m headed, so that’s my priority.” And he was with it. He jumped in there and caught up to me and so we started the fertility journey, as we could say— [Biz laughs.] —and had, y’know, numerous IVF rounds that didn’t work. And then I actually saved the frozen eggs ‘til sort of the end thinking, y’know, we don’t know what’s gonna happen. And the eggs that I had frozen didn’t work, either. So we were about—I guess—three years into that and nothing worked. And we looked at each other and said, like, “We still want this. We still want a family.” And looked at our options and decided to go ahead with an egg donor. And it turns out—fertility is about biology? It is not about me. Or anything I’ve done wrong. Or what I ate for dinner last night— [Biz laughs.] —or the fact that I’m stressed or I didn’t get enough sleep or whatever. So we did the egg donor, put in one embryo and bam. [Snaps fingers.] It was—we were on.

biz

Awesome.

mary

Yeah! It was like, y’know, it was very difficult. Really, really difficult process. But it was very—it allowed me to move on that it happened so quickly. Because it really—like, I joke that it’s all biology but it really came down to it of like—yes. It’s all biology. And no matter if I was—y’know—37 or 42 or whatever it is? Biology’s different for every person and it has nothing to do with me. And I think that, y’know, we get these messages about, y’know, our responsibilities, y’know, what our value is in the world? And a lot of that has to do with our ability to reproduce. And it’s been—for me personally—a process of… like, detangling that. Unraveling it. And just trying to like throw away the things that are not good for me. That I don’t believe in. That, y’know, I think are detrimental to me and my well-being. [Biz laughs.] And—

biz

Do you mean lies? Do you mean, like, falsehoods and lies?

crosstalk

Biz: Do you mean like things created to like sell and/or things created to keep women in certain positions in the hierarchy of power? I mean, like, that narrative— Mary: Yeah! Totally! I mean—all of it.

biz

—is garbage. And in the seven years of doing this show and talking to all of the different people who have gotten children into their house in so many different ways—each one—even the most, y’know, “we got drunk and fooled around and it just—right out of my vagina.” Right? Like—even that, there is still just… garbage and messaging and, y’know, no one’s doing it right. No one’s doing it right. It’s your fault.

mary

Right!

biz

The ‘your fault’ message or there’s something wrong with you or you’re somehow broken—it is just such bullshit.

mary

It’s such damaging bullshit.

crosstalk

Biz: It’s damaging bullshit. Mary: It’s just toxic, damaging bullshit.

mary

I mean, two things come to mind as you’re talking about that? One is that I would sit in the waiting room at the fertility clinic and look around and go, “Okay. Like, everybody here is able to do this but me.” Right? And when I got to the place where I couldn’t do it biologically on my own, my doctor said, “Hey, you know what? Like—in my office, a quarter of my patients are making the choice that you’re making!” So, y’know, the fact that I imposed this idea on myself—that I am not enough, because everybody around here, I’m just assuming, is doing better than I am—is so damaging. And it’s just a terrible thing to carry around!

biz

It’s that “doing it at you, at me.” It’s like—when you’re trying to conceive and everybody around you is pregnant, it makes you feel like everybody’s great at it. And it took ‘em no time to do it. And… That isn’t… true. I mean, it’s true for some people. Some people are just big ‘ol fertile flowers walking around and it’s like, “Ah-choo! Whew! Congratulations!” [Laughs.]

mary

There it is!

biz

There it is! And you said the story you were telling yourself—and yeah, you were telling yourself, but you were taught that story. I mean, like—

mary

Right!

biz

It is—yes. How long are we gonna continue to accept that narrative and assume there’s truth to it; be it a fertility narrative; our worth; or any of the other things that are floating around out there. Or are we just gonna say, you know what? That’s actually not true. Even if I get this Pottery Barn Catalog and I paint my walls white and I have all of this [through laughter] matching furniture, my children are gonna behave great. They’re gonna love sitting on those ground pillows and they’ll never yell at me and it will be beautiful. And they will— [Laughs.] I will be the perfect mom and I will wear heels. But that’s not—that’s not true! It’s just—like, it’s just garbage! And… I really hate—I really hate it. For us. That so much is tied up in our bodies and in how kids get into our house. And somehow it’s just all on us.

mary

Right. Well, from start to finish, right? Like, to carry it in all the way through raising it. [Laughs.]

biz

Yeah! “It.”

crosstalk

Biz: “The—that thing!” Mary: “That thing!”

biz

That thing in the house which right now is Lord of the Flies down in your kitchen.

mary

It’s true! And I now remember the other thing I was gonna say, was that like, I did—I mean, I tried everything. Acupuncture, all this stuff. [Biz laughs.] And one of the things was, like, a low-inflammation diet. And I remember like—you couldn’t have sugar. You couldn’t have bread. You couldn’t have anything. And I just—it was like almost like if I was, “Should I put—is it possible for me to eat that like crumb of a cookie that I really want right now? No! No! Because you can’t have a baby then!”

crosstalk

Mary: [Laughs.] Like— [Laughs.] It’s—it’s—yeah! Biz: Yeah! You can’t have a baby. ‘Cause you ate a cookie. Right? Like—

mary

But you know, there’s—I think there was a lesson in it for me because like once I did get pregnant? And once I did realize that, okay, it’s biology? I said, “I am not gonna take the bait on anything about my pregnancy or raising this child that has to do with taking on… y’know, outside voices. Doing any like comparative critique or anything like that.” I read one book. [Biz laughs.] When I was pregnant, I read one book. When I had her. And like, that was it. And I—y’know, it’s just not helpful. There’s too many toxic messages in all of this stuff, and, y’know, I think I have it in me to raise a good kid. I just believe it. I don’t need a whole bunch of, y’know, referential stuff.

biz

Can I ask you… what are some of the things you had to navigate during this process?

mary

I think that… it’s still got this connotation that… it needs to be somehow secret.

biz

Yes!

mary

That—y’know, that… it’s—if I communicate about it. Let’s say I tell somebody that, “Oh yeah! We had Anna through an egg donor.” A lot of times the reaction is, “Oh! Wow!...” [Biz laughs.] And doesn’t go any further than that! Because people are concerned about, y’know, I think they empathize and they’re concerned about my feelings? But it gets so loaded so fast? That people just can’t deal with it. And… that is just… that just goes to show you… y’know. How ingrained this is in all of us. Because, y’know, I feel in the position of—I wanna be very open about it. I would like to tell as many people as I possibly can— [Biz laughs.] —because you know what? I only knew one person who had been through the same thing? And I had spent some time living in Sweden? I was back in LA at this point. She was in Sweden. We did a phone call. Like, that was as close as I got to somebody that I knew who’d been through something similar. And it… honestly? I—after I spoke with her, I just was like, “Yes. This is the thing I need to do. I can relate to your story, and this can be part of my life. And I can like navigate this and… it will make everything I ever wanted come true with an asterisk.” [Biz laughs.] That—the asterisk is that I just had to think about it differently. Y’know? And I will have to think about it differently as I communicate it to my daughter and discuss it with my daughter for however long that needs to take! But I can still do this. And, y’know, people just—so during the process, I didn’t have a lot of dialogue with people about it? ‘Cause it’s very hard to talk about, like, “Oh, I don’t know how this is gonna work out but I’m going through this really hard thing.” People don’t really wanna engage with that! When you—y’know, after the fact, I have this like beautiful, vibrant kid. Like, there’s nothing bad to talk about now! Like, I did it with an egg donor! We can talk about it! Y’know? But it’s still hard for people to engage with. And I think the more… conversations like this that can happen, the more it permits other people to have conversations. And—very importantly—allows other women to see that this choice is possible for them! And it’s… fine.

biz

You are a creative director badass. And I’m gonna start with this, that you have done many things, is you have worked with the band OK Go on some of their music videos. And I would like to say that I have—for years—been showing those—well, not “for years.” [Mary laughs.] But as long as the videos have been—for a hundred years!

crosstalk

Mary: [Laughs.] Feels like it! Biz: That OK Go’s been around.

biz

Yeah. We watch those in this house all the time. As just something to like amaze the kids with. And just in case anybody is not familiar with what I’m talking about. OK Go is a band, and they sort of made a name for themselves with the help of you with their visually stunning music videos. They are… these ornate… complex… one-camera… optical illusion… people—I mean, they’re absolutely stunning and so much fun to watch… music videos! So I would like to actually shift into your work. Can you talk to me a little bit about how you got into this line of work and there’s no question you have a distinct voice with your projects, and I would love to talk a little bit about that, too!

mary

Mm-kay! Well, I mean, I guess I… so my dad was in the music business. He was like a radio promotion guy in like the ‘80s, so it was like— [Biz laughs.] —think, like, a wrestler, or like maybe a manager of a wrestler? It’s kind of like on that level but he’s basically shucking and jiving to, like, y’know, get a record on the radio and yadda, yadda. [Biz laughs.] So he was quite a character and music was always a very big part of my life. And my mom was an elementary school art teacher. And so at some point—long after I had gone to college— [Biz laughs.] —and, y’know, long after you’re supposed to have figured out what you wanna do, I put it together and I was like… yes! You can make album covers! That’s it! [Biz laughs.] And I’d been kind of doing this in smaller and larger ways. Anyway. Once I kinda, like, that like… y’know, magical combo finally was realized by me, that’s how I started. And I worked at different record labels kind of like coming up and by the time I met OK Go I was the creative director at Capitol Records, which was where they started. That was their first label. And we kinda got together early on and just, like… it was like we were related. [Biz laughs.] Y’know, Damian calls me his big sister even though he has a big sister who is also a collaborator— [Biz laughs.]

mary

—and she’s great. I’m the other one. Yeah! I mean, it just became this relationship that over time, y’know, there were like very intense periods of time where we were working together very closely. I would say my contribution tended to be at the start of an album cycle. Not for every one, but for some of them. Where we’d be figuring out, like, conceptually, like, what is this all about? Kind of like, what’s our theme? What are we going for here? And I mean, aesthetically a lot of—you say, like, I’ve kind of a specific voice. And that specific voice is like… very specific to them, too? So it just like, worked? Y’know, we always loved patterns. And we always loved… y’know, optical illusions. And then like over time that just got—went from like an album covered in wallpaper to like a full-on music video with like crazy optical illusion freak-out things. So it was kinda like this scale thing and so like all of the, y’know, ingredients were there at the beginning. But like, at the beginning we could, y’know, afford to bake like one cupcake and then like— [Biz laughs.] —later it became, like, I don’t even know. A feast. So I feel really, really lucky to have had that affiliation with them. And… just support! And kinship! Over the years. And I think one of the things I would love to just suggest to you and I think maybe some of your audience is a project that we did—

biz

Yes!

mary

—over the last couple years, which is called “OK Go Sandbox.”

biz

Yes! I was gonna ask you about this! And I just sent it to my teachers after checking it out! I was like, “Hey, guys, not like you don’t have enough that you’re reading right now, teachers, but… this is like—this is really cool!” And I started like researching all of the different—so tell us—tell us about the OK Go Sandbox!

mary

Well so basically for years, teachers would show up, write letters, y’know, emails, whatever, saying like, “We used your video in our classroom to teach math. We use it over here to show physics. Like, this is—” And so basically, this was like a—just a formal response to that. And Damian had been—he was like in line for coffee, I think, at like the TED Conference or something like that? [Biz laughs.] And literally, serendipitously, the woman behind him in line was a women named AnnMarie Thomas, and she is a really special genius woman who runs something called “The Playful Learning Lab.” Out of the University of St. Thomas. And she studies basically how kids learn through play! And runs a lab and helps educators build their curriculum around these principles. So they got some money together, kinda kicked it off, brought me in to creative direct that, and y’know we were able to really find different ways like strategically to have the content align with like the core curriculum that teachers have to teach in schools? So really helping them find ways to like navigate this into what can be really, really, like, tight, narrow requirements? But also, y’know, to inspire kids and essentially it presents each video and this sort of conceptual architecture behind it? Whether that’s like, the physics of parabolic flight, let’s say. And then it breaks those down into separate units and creates projects that the students can do around each of those principles. So it’s really cool and damn if that wasn’t prescient because… this is stuff that, y’know, families, schools, can use right now for at-home learning! And I highly recommend it for that.

biz

Yeah! No. It is… really… fun. To go through. Because—again, like I said—we’ve been showing these videos forever just to be, like, “How did they—" y’know, we always ask the kids, “How do you think they did that?! How did they—” Right? ‘Cause they—it’s designed! I mean, they are—

mary

That’s the question and this is the answer! Like, we basically are saying, “Well, this is how we did it!”

biz

I know! And it’s—what I really was nervous about but then I was so thrilled to see what that it was broken up by age. So I was like, “Oh, I’m gonna look at this and it’s only gonna be for like eighth graders. Right?” But there’s like a K-3 and like—which is wonderful. And it’s such a gift. It’s such a nice thing, nice resource, to have available. And no one panic—we’re going to link everybody up.

mary

Alright!

biz

To the OK Go Sandbox. Mary? Thank you so much for joining us. And I just wanna say, thank you for, y’know, making that choice to talk openly about your experiences? Because I think—I am also someone who had kids a little later. And I have other friends as well, which is—of our generation. People who were doing other things. [Laughs.] At the time.

mary

What do you know?

biz

Yeah! What do you know! So I am doubly happy to speak with you to get that message out there, and your story and experience out there. And any time I can have anybody on to agree with me that there is garbage being fed to us daily in this country, I will have you on all the time!

mary

That’s right! Flush those toxins! Get ‘em out!

biz

That’s right! Flush, flush, flush! And good luck with the pod.

mary

Thank you! I hate to tell you this—and I think everybody’s gonna hate me—

biz

Sure!

mary

This is not—I’m not doing this at you.

biz

I’m gonna take that.

mary

But the kids are baking banana muffins right now? And it smells really good. So I’m just gonna go—

crosstalk

Mary: [inaudible] [Laughs.] Biz: Fuck yeah! [Through laughter] Yes!

mary

I didn’t do it at you! Okay?

biz

No, no! The kids are just down there making a music video. [Mary laughs.] Don’t worry about it. It’s totally fine. They’ve just built— [Laughs.] I think it’s wonderful.

mary

Thank you.

biz

But here is to everybody smelling banana bread, regardless of what it actually is.

mary

May everyone smell banana bread.

biz

That’s right. Well thank you so much and we will make sure that everybody can see all of your work. Thank you so much for joining us!

mary

Thank you. It’s been really nice.

music

“Ones and Zeroes” by “Awesome.” Steady, driving electric guitar with drum and woodwinds. [Music fades out.]

music

Laid-back guitar plays in the background.

theresa

One Bad Mother is supported in part by KiwiCo. We know this Halloween is already gonna be a little different? I know I’m just planning to buy way more candy this year? [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.] But I also realize it’s so much better if we don’t just make Halloween all about candy. And with KiwiCo, you can have hands-on science and art projects, and that way—

biz

Your ghoulies won’t go batty with boredom, guys! [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] Guys? What’s wonderful about KiwiCo is there is something for the whole family. Ellis and Katy Belle both use the Kiwi Crates, which were perfect when they were under the age of seven, roughly. Ellis is now using the Tinker Crates, and recently built a robot which was really cool. And I’ve stolen all of Katy Belle’s Maker Crates and have been making macrame hanging baskets. [Laughs.]

theresa

Oooooh!

biz

Isn’t it so fun!

theresa

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theresa

Hey, you know what it’s time for! This week’s genius and fails! This is the part of the show where we share our genius moment of the week, as well as our failures, and feel better about ourselves by hearing yours. You can share some of your own by calling 206-350-9485. That’s 206-350-9485.

biz

Genius fail time… Theresa! Oh, I just—I love the way that just rolls off my tongue. [Theresa laughs.] Genius me.

clip

[Dramatic, swelling music in background.] Biz: Wow! Oh my God! Oh my God! I saw what you did! Oh my God! I’m paying attention! Wow! You, mom, are a genius. Oh my God, that’s fucking genius! [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective genius moments of the week.]

theresa

Okay. This is like relating to that feeling of… y’know, when your kids see something that is like a project idea that someone has done and they wanna do that, too, right now, and I’m looking at that project and not only do I not know how to do it but I have to learn how to do it and see if I could— [Biz laughs.] —and then I don’t know how long it would take and it would probably cause all kinds of frustration for my kids and myself. But this is a story of when that didn’t happen!

biz

Oooh! [Laughs.]

theresa

What happened was, Oscar—my six-year-old—had made a book with one of his therapists. It was a book that was very cute. It was like you could print it on printer paper, but it had picture that had clearly been, like, things had been pasted into pictures? And then there was writing. It was very simple, but it looked really nice? And he was very excited about this book and he was sharing it with me. And Gracie, my now-nine-year-old, noticed the book. And she wanted to make one, too. Sure. Great. Well, let me just real quick email this therapist and say, like, “How did you—what—did you use like special software to make this book, or what did you do?” And Gracie was feeling very impatient. Like, “Has the therapist written you back yet?” And I was like, “Honey, she’s gonna get back to me but it might not be for like a day. Like it might be later today or it might be tomorrow. I don’t really know.” Well— [Laughs.] She was losing her mind waiting. She just really wanted to like make a book right then. So I said, “Well, I mean, it seems like something you could make with PowerPoint.” I don’t really know—like, I know PowerPoint is like pretty basic sometimes? But like I don’t use it, so I don’t really know how to do it. But I was like, “I could try.” I said, “I could try. We could try PowerPoint and see if it works.” And she said, “Great. Let’s try PowerPoint.” So we tried PowerPoint. That was fine. We were getting like something going. But then the next thing was, she wanted to paste pictures of herself into like a Minecraft background? [Biz laughs.] 

theresa

So she took screenshots of Minecraft—like, stuff she’d built in Minecraft—and then she took pictures of herself and she sent them all to me and she’s like, “Here you go! Like, put me into the Minecraft thing.” And I’m like, [sighs] “Okay.” Like, I really don’t know how to do this kind of stuff. [Biz laughs.] But I just thought… I don’t know. Maybe I can! So I just like kinda googled it and like tried to figure it out, and sure enough, like, the software that came with my computer made it possible for me to like cut out Grace from this picture of herself and paste it into the Minecraft world. It was actually not that hard, and I did it, and we did it right there and we just made the whole book! And then—yes! And then… what was great was that, y’know, it uses so much ink to print those like pictures? Like, those full pictures? [Biz laughs.] So much so that like, we’ve already ruined Grace by—like now she’ll look at it and she’ll be like, “You probably don’t wanna print this because it’s gonna use so much ink.” Like, she’s like already worried about that? That’s already giving her a stomachache? I’m like, “It’s fine.” ‘Cause I’m feeling good now ‘cause I’ve had this success? [Biz laughs.] So I’m like, “It’s great. We’ll just print it. Don’t worry about the ink. It’ll be great. Let’s make sure it’s all looking good!” Well of course like we ended up having to print it out like three different times? [Biz laughs.] Y’know? This like 20 page book with full color images? Because like inevitably something was wrong each time. Like, the first time we like printed on both sides and that made the book look weird and like the next time like something was cut off. But I… the genius was, I was calm for this whole thing. Like, I just said I would try. I didn’t say, like, “I can do this.” I just said, “I’ll try.” And then I just took my time and did not rush and we did all the pieces and we made the book and it is great! And she’s very happy!

biz

Oh! That is so good!

theresa

Thank you!

biz

Really! That’s really nice!

theresa

Thanks, Biz.

biz

Yeah! Guys? I’m struggling on a genius.

crosstalk

Biz: This week. Theresa: You went for a walk.

theresa

You told me off of the air that you went for a walk.

biz

I did. I went for a walk. But I’m in such a gross place that it’s like… “Well, why can’t I do that every day?” Y’know. Like it’s more of a punishment. “Everybody else gets to walk all the time. Mreh, mreh, mreh, mreh, mreh.” So like… I did go for a walk and that was nice. And I did—the air is breathable again here, and so I did clean the porch. Which is a place I like to go sit. And… I’m showing up every day when I would really like to not… show up. So I’m just going to enjoy the very—not enjoy. I think I’m just going to recognize the incredibly low bar… and be done with it and leave it at that. So as we don’t go down [through laughter] a dark spiral of— [Laughs.] Just… ahhhh! Where are we?! This is a—it’s crazy!

crosstalk

Biz: Everything’s crazy. Theresa: Showing up is actually a really big deal.

biz

It is. It is. I am showing up. I am here.

theresa

Good job.

biz

Here I am. Thank you.

caller

[Answering machine beeps.] Hi! This is a genius. And this is a genius that I’m not just proud of myself; it’s a genius that might actually help another mom out! I’m very, very proud of myself. So I just went to support the local business for food—so genius one—I am not cooking tonight. And then also I managed to be able to like not have my kids in the car, which is also a genius—two. And—okay. No, this is it. Get this. This is the real genius right here. I put the food in the rear-facing infant seat so that it doesn’t spill all over the place. I got a big old food bag—y’know, you put it on the floor? It ends up everywhere! You like, rearrange it? What do you do? No! In the fucking baby seat! I feel so smart right now. [Theresa laughs.] The one, like, tiny bad thing is I can’t reach the French fries? But— [Biz laughs.] —like, and I can smell them, which is really hard. But ahh! So my food is so safe and I’m looking at it in the mirror! And I’m looking at my beautiful food that I didn’t have to cook in the baby seat mirror, all tucked in. I didn’t buckle it because I think it’s going to be okay, but— [Both laugh.] Man, I’m really—I just—it’s really great right now. So you guys are doing a great job. Everybody, wear a mask. We are all doing a great job. And put your food in the baby seat. [Biz laughs.] So you can look after it like you love it. [Biz laughs, applauds.]

theresa

So good!

biz

This is—it’s so good! This is… I think I really enjoy the genius and fails that just borderline on all of us going literally insane.

theresa

Yes!

biz

I love this person. So much. She’s like—“I’m looking at my food!” [Theresa laughs.] “Wear a mask! Look at it!”

theresa

“Keeping my food safe! I feel so smart right now!” [Biz laughs.]

biz

Yes! And I also like that she acknowledged that the one downside was that she cannot reach the fries. Because it’s all the way back there. But don’t worry—soon you’ll have to turn that seat around when your food gets old enough, and you’ll— [Theresa laughs.] You’ll turn it around. And then you can reach. You can reach the fries. I just—the real genius is the joy you have found in your life. Right now. This is— [Theresa laughs.] —you are—

theresa

You’re finding joy.

biz

You are [through laughter] finding joy. I look forward to your book. [Both laugh.] “I Can Smell the French Fries; They’re Just Out of Reach: The true story of a very happy person.” [Both laugh.] You are doing a great job! Failures.

clip

[Dramatic orchestral music plays in the background.] Theresa: [In a voice akin to the Wicked Witch of the West] Fail. Fail. Fail. FAIL! [Timpani with foot pedal engaged for humorous effect.] Biz: [Calmly] You suck! [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective failures of the week.]

biz

Fail me, Theresa.

theresa

[Sighs.] Just a classic, but for our times.

biz

Mm.

theresa

I… have enrolled Oscar, my six-year-old, in a part-day, three-day-a-week, nature camp.

biz

Hey!

theresa

And… yay for that. On the first day, I was very careful to pack all the important items. [Biz laughs.] And have him ready with his hands washed and… sunscreen. All the things. Water bottle. Snacks. Change of clothes. Blah, blah, blah. Definitely forgot the COVID mask.

biz

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Everyone needs those in nature. I know.

theresa

We need them all the time—

biz

I know.

theresa

—when we’re not home. And we have dozens. Dozens. [Biz laughs.] And we—y’know, it’s not even—like, Oscar has worn one a lot now! He’s really used to wearing it? And it’s totally part of our routine in leaving the house. But I guess I was so busy thinking about all the other things? That I haven’t had to do for him in six months? Like, pack stuff to go somewhere? That I just totally forgot the mask. All the way to camp. Which is like— [Biz makes frustrated sound.] —20 minutes away.

biz

Yeah, not close. [Laughs.]

theresa

Until standing in line—the six-feet-apart line—to get into the place.

biz

Did you look around? Is that when— [Theresa laughs.] —when did you, like, how did it dawn on you? ‘Cause what you’re describing here is the dream I have every single night.

theresa

Well this is why I was like, “Why don’t I keep a stack of these in the car?” Like… I don’t know why I don’t. ‘Cause I think ‘cause I’m scared of them getting dirty somehow? Or something? I don’t know!

biz

We’re not ever in cars! That’s why!

crosstalk

Theresa: I guess. Yeah. I don’t know. Biz: Who’s in a car?

theresa

Now I’m keeping some in the car and I’m keeping some in his backpack. It’s fine. I just felt really, really stupid. And I felt like, oh, that feeling of like, “Oh, people totally think that I don’t care. About the—like, that I’m not in the habit of using a mask. Like, that I’m not…” [Biz laughs.] For my kids.

biz

I’m really sorry. Like, literally every night I have a dream that I am like at a grocery store or really anywhere. And then I realize, halfway through my experience being there? [Theresa gasps.]

crosstalk

Theresa: That you’re not wearing a mask. It’s like the naked dream! It’s like the naked dream— Biz: That I’m not wearing a mask. It’s the naked dream—

theresa

—but the mask dream.

biz

Now it is a mask. All the time. I’m not kidding. I feel like there’s some reward that Oscar’s not where Ellis is, where the sheer panic of like—Ellis can’t leave the house without being like, [frantic voice] “We don’t have a mask!” And I’m like, “Is this healthy? Did I do this right?” [Theresa laughs.] “This doesn’t feel—this doesn’t feel good either!” So, eh. We are all boned. Well, I’m sorry. [Through laughter] You’re doing a horrible job! [Laughs.]

theresa

Thank you. I know. [Laughs.]

biz

But A+ for remembering every fucking thing else. [Laughs.]

theresa

I know.

biz

[Through laughter] I just like—ahh! Okay. Stefan has a glass that he loves very much. It is— [Theresa laughs.] —I know. This sounds like a crazy. But like, so… when he has a little bourbon, some nights, the end of a long day, he really, really likes to have it in this sort of classic bourbon glass that like you get like at a bar. Right? And he used to have one when we were in New York and I’m pretty sure I broke that one. And then we got to California and he like went out—he went back to—he was visiting New York and like took one from a bar and got it home.

crosstalk

Theresa: So good! Yeah! Ohhhhhh! Biz: And it’s been there forever! And I broke it!

biz

I broke it two days ago. I was emptying the dishwasher, and I just—I am—I’ve mentioned it a million times. I’m a dropper. When I’m very tired or whatever, I just—things just fall out. [Laughs.] Of my hands. I mean, just, they’re there and then they’re not. And it shattered. And… I just was like, “There’s a lot of things I could’ve broken in this house that I wouldn’t have felt like—I would’ve been, like, ‘eh. That sucks.’” But this I was like, “Oooh. I am really, really sorryyy. That I did thissss.”

theresa

Yeah. There’s no—there’s no way to fix that. It’s just broken.

biz

No! You cannot fix it! This is not, like, I can’t go to IKEA and get a new one!

theresa

No.

biz

Yeah. No. This is like, a thing.

crosstalk

Biz: So there ya go! Theresa: Yeah. I’m sorry. [Sighs.]

biz

There ya go. Just everything’s falling apart. [Laughs.] Just one glass at a time. [Laughs.]

caller

[Answering machine beeps.] Hi, One Bad Mothers! I’m calling with a fail. And it’s an embarrassing one, but, y’know, if we can’t share our embarrassing failures [inaudible] them. I was at work and noticed that my leg kept tickling and itching but it was only my left leg and I couldn’t figure out why. There was nothing there. And then I looked down and realized that while I was in the shower this morning that I only shaved my right leg— [Theresa laughs.] —and I’d forgot to shave my left leg and that my leg hair was tickling me. And no one at work would understand it. They would all be horrified if I told them that, but there ya go. I was— [Biz laughs.] —half a Self at work today. And we’ll see if I can’t even out tomorrow. Thank you for reminding us that we’re doing a good job. You’re doing an awesome job, too.

biz

I really like the sort of… moral of the story, which is—“Maybe tomorrow I’ll even myself out.” [Both laugh.] But that is—yeah! A, I mean, I guess kudos for shaving. Like, that’s a… yeah! That’s—

theresa

That’s more than some would.

biz

Many. Yeah. More than many might be doing. And… and by “many,” it could be me?

crosstalk

Theresa: Could be me! On any given day. It could definitely be me. Biz: Might not be me. Any given day.

biz

Yeah. There are definitely times when you’re like, “What is that feeling?” And you’re like, “Oh, it’s the wind… blowing across [through laughter] my leg hair.”

theresa

Oh yeah.

biz

Yeah. And so… to have one shaved leg and one [singing] born freeee leg—[regular voice] yeah. [Theresa laughs.]

theresa

It must just be a weird feeling! Y’know? Like, you just don’t feel centered.

biz

No. Centered is the—right. You feel a little to the right. [Theresa laughs.] That’s where you feel that day. And being centered is probably a more comfortable place. Y’know? I’m—you are very smart to not share that information with anyone at your work, but we know. That you’re doing a horrible job at being like a person. So.

theresa

Yep! [Biz laughs.]

music

“Mom Song” by Adira Amram. Mellow piano music with lyrics. You are the greatest mom I’ve ever known. I love you, I love you. When I have a problem, I call you on the phone. I love you, I love you. [Music fades out.]

music

Cheerful banjo music with whistling plays in background.

biz

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theresa

I recently bought myself a few more ThirdLove bras. I really personally love the fact that they have half-cup sizes. I feel like that should be a thing. It’s so necessary for so many of us. With signature details like memory foam cups, no-slip straps, and a scratch-free band, ThirdLove creates bras that focus on what matters—keeping us comfortable. They donate all their gently-used returned bras to women in need, supporting charities in their local San Francisco Bay area and across the United States. You can use their online Fit Finder quiz to identify your breast size and shape to find the right size and style for you.

biz

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promo

Music: Dramatic organ/piano music. [Background noise throughout: a howling wolf and cawing crow. April speaks in a sinister voice.] April Wolfe: Hello there, ghouls and gals. It is I, April Wolfe. I'm here to take you through the twisty, sca-a-a-ry, heart-pounding world of genre cinema on the exhilarating program known as Switchblade Sisters. [Sinister echo on the title.] The concept is simple: I invite a female filmmaker on each week, and we discuss their favorite genre film. Listen in closely to hear past guests, like The Babadook director Jennifer Kent, Winter's Bone director Debra Granik, and so many others every Thursday on MaximumFun.org. Tune in! If you dare... [Thunder booms, something growls over April as she cackles evilly, and then all sound abruptly cuts.] April: [Rapidly] It's actually a very thought-provoking show that deeply explores the craft and philosophy behind the filmmaking process while also examining film through the lens of the female gaze. So, like, you should listen. [Same sinister echo effect] Switchblade Sisters!

music

Music: Upbeat, sci-fi sounding music plays. Dan McCoy: Hey! I’m Dan McCoy. Stuart Wellington: I’m Stuart Wellington. Elliott Kalan: And I’m Elliott Kalan. Together, we are The Flop House. Dan: A podcast where we watch a bad movie and then talk about it! Elliott: Movies like—Space Hobos! Into the Outer Reaches of the Unknown and the Things That we Don’t Know: The Movie, and also—Who’s That Grandma? Stuart: Zazzle-Zippers! Breakdown 2 and Backhanded Compliment. Dan: Elvis is a Policeman! Elliott: Baby Crocodile and the Happy Twins! Dan: Leftover Potatoes? Stuart: Station Wagon 3. Elliott: Herbie Goes to Hell. Dan: New episodes available every other Saturday! Elliott: Available at MaximumFun.org or wherever you get your podcasts. Dan, Elliott, and Stuart: [In unison] Byeee!

biz

[Singing] Guys? Theresa is still here! And do you know who’s also still here? Moms having a breakdown. Let’s sit back and [through laughter] listen to one right now.

caller

[Answering machine beeps.] Hi, Biz and Theresa! This is a rant. [Tearfully] I am calling because I’m just… so frustrated. I have a small baby. Born in the pandemic. [Inaudible] have just been home with her and it was just supposed to have been me and the baby, but now my husband is here also working from home all day. And he’s always around and he always has, like, opinions and things he wants to say and he’s always just… there. And I never have any time just to be quiet and just… to be with the baby and [sighs]. God. I’m just… it just wasn’t supposed to be like this. And right now I’m just a little bit over it. [Sniffs, sighs.] Thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate you guys. You’re doing a really good job.

biz

First of all, you are doing a really good job.

theresa

Yeah, you are.

biz

Ugh. This is exactly where… I am and I am sure everybody is. And that is that daily sort of, “This is not how this is supposed to be and I just… need… some quiet. And some time alone.” And that’s… so… not on par with this idea that we sometimes hear from, from others, that’s, “Oh, I’m finally getting to be home with my whole family! Isn’t it great?” [Laughs.] “I’m so excited!” And that is true. There are some really nice moments about all being able to be home more than usual and having these different sets of circumstances. That said? You are one of a lot of calls. From just this month. Of people calling in and saying, “I haven’t been alone since November.” Or “I haven’t been alone since March.” And… that’s—even in the best of relationships, and the best of circumstances in terms of, y’know, what all’s happening in your house, it is crazy, the effects of not having any quiet time or alone time or… any of it. That is really having an affect on you. On me.

theresa

I think also… for some reason? We don’t see, like, “needing alone time” as being something that’s like a spectrum for people? Like, your husband, it sounds like, may be somebody who doesn’t maybe need a lot of alone time? And it’s possible that maybe for him this is like really hard because he’s more social and he’s missing that like interaction with more adults and being out in the world and you’re, like, the sole outlet for that for him. Whereas for you, you need more alone time! And for some reason we don’t always feel like that is like an okay thing… to say that we need. I mean, I know in our situation here, like, Jesse, my husband, is the one who needs more alone time than I need. I also need alone time. [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.] But he needs more! And he needs more quiet time. And we’ve been recently talking about this and talking about, like, because ever since COVID he’s felt so guilty any time he feels like he needs to take some quiet time, because he feels like he’s like leaving me with the kids or that he feels like he’s, y’know, abandoning the situation. And also that—how do the kids take that if he’s the one who goes and gets quiet time and, y’know, mom’s there but dad needs more quiet time. And so we’ve been trying to think about, like, how can we talk to them about it? And we were just saying the other day, like, “Maybe it’s okay to just say to them, like, ‘Look. Everybody has a different amount of quiet time that they need, and we’re all learning that more about ourselves right now because all of a sudden it’s not built into our day. Like, all of a sudden we have to make that time.’” I think the other thing that is like really tough about your situation is with the baby! Like, I was like you. When I had each one of my babies, I just wanted to be alone with my baby. Like, that was like the most— [Biz laughs.] I know not everybody has that—

crosstalk

Theresa: —either. That’s different for everyone. Biz: No, but—yes.

theresa

But all I wanted was just me and the baby. I just—that was like the most… like, special and much-needed thing for me at that time? And how—and how hard it was to share that time with anyone else, even other family members who I dearly love. And so again, you’re in this situation where it feels… it feels like you don’t have that time that you expected having built in. And we’re not used to having these conversations like, “I—can I be the only parent right now?” [Laughs.] Like, we’re not used to having— [Biz laughs.] —y’know, it’s just a—we haven’t had to be in this situation before. And that’s… it’s really hard to figure out how to do that in a way that like… doesn’t hurt anyone’s feelings, and like, doesn’t… y’know… create conflict.

biz

That is so spot-on. I think that’s like… the key with so many of the things we’re struggling with right now. Is we are being put into situations that have always existed. But have not existed with the spotlight turned on them so brightly and so consistently that we have to have these conversations. That may have been needed to be had already? [Laughs.] But, y’know. I mean, Lord knows my relationship is built on the “I’m just gonna sit on it. Until I—"

theresa

“It’ll be different later.” [Laughs.]

biz

“We’ll figure it out.” Right? And then like—yeah! But now there is no space to figure it out later. You have to figure it out like right now. And that is new.

theresa

Yes.

biz

To a lot of us.

theresa

Yes.

biz

And… you’re doing—you’re doing a really good job.

theresa

Yeah, you are.

biz

Yeah, you are. Theresa? You’re also doing a really good job? I’m so glad that… this is working for at least these last two days. [Theresa laughs.] And I hope that it continues to work.

theresa

I do, too.

crosstalk

Biz: If it doesn’t work, that’s okay, too! Theresa: I know!

theresa

I know. I really hope it keeps working, too.

biz

Yeah. I… love seeing you. And I love hearing you. And I miss your voice and your input into all of our conversations. And there are many times throughout this time that I have been like… “Ugh! If Theresa was here, I would not have stepped in that!” [Theresa laughs.] “That would’ve been really great to have her voice in on this!” So I miss you and I appreciate you and I know everybody was so excited to hear you last week, and… you are doing… a really good job. Thank you.

theresa

Thanks, Biz. I am really happy to be here and I’m already looking forward to next time. Thank you for continuing to make One Bad Mother. You are amazing and it’s really good to see you and hear from you, too.

biz

Guys? [Laughs.] That was so nice to [singsong voice] have Theresa here. [Regular voice] I really like getting to have her around for genius and fail and for moms having a breakdown! Because like I said, her voice is… so important and useful and… I have always, throughout all of these years, felt—when she was responding to a caller—that I was gaining something from what she had to say as well. So that was so nice to have her on. Just as it was so nice to speak with our guest today, Mary Fagot. I just really like badass hardcore smart women. I do. I like smart people. So what did we learn today? We learned that everything’s okay. [Laughs.] And “okay” is code for… everything from “a total shitshow” to “nailing it!” Okay, guys? We learned that there are many ways to get a kid in your house, and they are all valid and they all have value and… whatever choices you make when it comes to how a child gets into your house, are no better or no less than anyone else’s choices. Mm-kay? Guys, the story they’ve been telling us forever that somehow our worth is wrapped up in whether or not we can make babies? Is garbage. Our worth is not wrapped up in that. Mm-kay? Having children in your house is… certainly a big deal! But it is not the thing that defines us. We were people before and we will be people [through laughter] after and we are—this is the one that I’m having a hard time still learning—we are people right now while there are children in our house. Mm-kay? We learned that the time that we are living in right now is ridiculously hard and alone time—quiet time—is incredibly important to us. Even if we differ from the other people in our house when it comes to how much quiet time we need or how much alone time we need? The takeaway is getting confident and communicating our needs with those in our lives. Guys? I think that was the real lesson. Communication, communication! Communicating that there are different ways and different experiences when it comes to how kids get in our house. Communicating the good and bad about our experiences out in the world. We gotta be willing to talk about all of it, no matter how uncomfortable it may be. And sometimes it’s even those really, really, really small yet incredibly important discussions with the people in our own homes. At the moment. Y’know? And I think it’s fair to begin talking with our kids about things like that. [Through laughter]

biz

I thought—listening to Theresa say that she and Jesse have been talking to their kids about, y’know, people having different levels of alone time needs? I thought that was stunning. That was amazing. And that they were thinking about the messaging that was being put out by Jesse needing more alone time than Theresa needing—‘cause that was a truth in their house—but if you’re not talking about that with your kids, the message may come across very differently to them. [Singing] Talk, talk, talkatalkatalk-talk, talk-talk. Let’s all talk. ‘K? Talk, talk, talk-y-talk-y-talk-talk. Taaalking! [Regular voice] I don’t have a problem with that. [Laughs.] Everybody? You’re doing a remarkable job. You really are. Yeah! It’s crazy. And I just… I just think you’re doing… great. And I see you. Whether it be a good day or a bad day, you’re still showing up. Let’s keep showing up. Trying our best each day. And—we will talk to you next week! Bye!

music

“Mama Blues” by Cornbread Ted and the Butterbeans. Strumming acoustic guitar with harmonica and lyrics. _I got the lowdown momma blues_ Got the lowdown momma blues Gots the lowdown momma blues The lowdown momma blues Gots the lowdown momma blues Got the lowdown momma blues You know that’s right [Music fades somewhat, plays in background of dialogue.]

biz

We’d like to thank MaxFun; our producer, Hannah Smith; our husbands, Stefan Lawrence and Jesse Thorn; our perfect children, who provide us with inspiration to say all these horrible things; and of course, you, our listeners. To find out more about the songs you heard on today’s podcast and more about the show, please go to MaximumFun.org/onebadmother. For information about live shows, our book and press, please check out OneBadMotherPodcast.com.

theresa

One Bad Mother is a member of the Maximum Fun family of podcasts. To support the show go to MaximumFun.org/donate. [Music continues for a while before fading out.]

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MaximumFun.org.

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Comedy and culture.

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Artist owned—

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—Audience supported.

About the show

One Bad Mother is a comedy podcast hosted by Biz Ellis and Theresa Thorn about motherhood and how unnatural it sometimes is. We aren’t all magical vessels!

Join us every week as we deal with the thrills and embarrassments of motherhood and strive for less judging and more laughing.

Call in your geniuses and fails: 206-350-9485. For booking and guest ideas, please email onebadmother@maximumfun.org. To keep up with One Bad Mother on social media, follow @onebadmothers on Twitter and Instagram.

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How to listen

Stream or download episodes directly from our website, or listen via your favorite podcatcher!

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