TRANSCRIPT One Bad Mother Ep. 372: Surprise! The Workforce is Still Unfair to Moms with Audrey Goodson Kingo

Biz is joined by Deputy Editor of Working Mother, Audrey Goodson Kingo. We review the statistics on what the pandemic has done to working parents, specifically working mothers. It’s not looking great for women in the workforce, but there is some good news about equity in the home. We are reminded that making choices is really hard right now and that everyone is doing their best. Plus, Theresa stops by for a genius and fail! 

Podcast: One Bad Mother

Episode number: 372

Guests: Audrey Goodson Kingo

Transcript

biz ellis

Hi. I’m Biz.

theresa thorn

And I’m Theresa.

biz

Due to the pandemic, we bring you One Bad Mother straight from our homes—including such interruptions as: children! Animal noises! And more! So let’s all get a little closer while we have to be so far apart. And remember—we are doing a good job.

music

“Summoning the Rawk” by Kevin MacLeod. Driving electric guitar and heavy drums. [Continues through dialogue.]

biz

This week on One Bad Mother—surprise! The workforce is still unfair to moms. Biz speaks with Deputy Editor of Working Mother, Audrey Goodson Kingo. Plus, Theresa stops by for a genius and fail!

crosstalk

Biz and caller: Woooo!

caller

Biz, you’re doing a great job. You’re holding it down for us. I feel you and the One Bad Mother audience would like to know that I’m a teacher. My kids are sort of maybe going back to online school. It’s horrible. [Biz laughs.] And they also have this strange, mild diarrhea? And the pediatrician said I needed to do a stool sample so I got the kits? It’s a whole kit. Seven samples. Seven vials of poo for each child. [Through laughter] That’s 14 vials of poo, which is a perfect metaphor for the quote-un-quote “back to school, no childcare, I don’t know how I’m going to do it” experience. And you have to laugh and you’re holding it down for us, Biz. Hello, One Bad Mothers. We’re really in this. 14 vials. Thanks a lot.

biz

Ooh! It is literally a shitshow in your house. [Laughs.] Did you call just so I could say that? Wow! That… that is a metaphor as well as, ahh, again, I feel like in the like parenting books… y’know, not—it basically—anything that has to do with human feces, they just don’t talk about. And so there’s the pooping in the tub. Big surprise. But there’s also the surprise that a doctor, at some point in time, is gonna ask you to take a sample. We have had to sample things in this house before. And it is really… something. There—it’s… it’s something. And I’m— [Laughs.] So sorry you have to do that on top of everything else. It’s like, I swear, this whole year is just like, stack upon stack, list upon list, of like “Eh, it’s the pandemic, eh, there’s this. There’s that. They have a teacher. Remote learning. I don’t know what do to.” And mild cases of diarrhea. Like— [Laughs.] I’m … so sorry. But. Here’s the thing. Teacher. Teacher, teacher? You are amazing. You’re amazing. You are absolutely amazing. And I am so glad you checked in and I am just gonna use that to do our weekly, “everybody’s doing an amazing job” shoutout. Especially teachers. My children started school last week, and even though I’ve done everything I can possibly do to give Ellis and his first- and second-grade class private, he doesn’t wanna wear his headphones. And that’s fine. So I hear everything. And I know it’s already hard enough for teachers live and [through laughter] in a classroom to manage six- and seven-year-olds. That’s a lot. They have a lot of things to say. They’re still not the best at stuff. Maybe putting things away or knowing where stuff is or just wanting to tell you a story about something completely unrelated to what you are talking about. When that then goes on to a Zoom… wow. Five minutes in, I want to just start punching. Like, just a punching machine. Just punching the air. And I hear these teachers being so patient and so nice and I—I cannot begin to tell you— [Laughs.] How much I appreciate teachers! I love you! I also wanna tell all the people in the medical industry who are still helping to take care of all of those infected by COVID-19, to keeping them well, to all the people who work to keep the facilities clean, to enter the data—all of it! I love you, too. Oh! And—because I happen to live right below the fire—a big shoutout to firefighters. Holy cow! Holy cow, firefighters! You are amazing! I really appreciate you. Everybody? You’re all doing such a good job. You know why? ‘Cause I’m gonna talk about myself real quick.

biz

We’re like seven months into this. Maybe longer. I’ve lost track. We’re over the halfway year mark. And as I said, I’m in Pasadena and I live five blocks below the evacuation warning line for the Bobcat fire, which has been burning close to us. We didn’t wind up having to evacuate. But there’s been no sun? For like nine days. There was no sky. No sun. It looked like you were on another planet. Our air quality was in the 300s at my house. Like, that’s the purple zone. Like, I feel like I’m coughing. I can feel it in my lungs. Like, the smoke. The last two days—thanks to the firefighters and to nature—the wind has shifted and we actually have blue skies again? And I cannot tell you how much I appreciate a blue sky and being able to see the sun. We didn’t leave the house, guys. Not even to go outside on the porch. For nine days. Y’know? I’m sure I could talk about other things like how the first week of school went and a lot of self-realizations that I made. But instead I’m just gonna say— [through laughter] what a fucking shit-ty year. And again, it brings me—living like this brings me back to all the thank-you’s. I work from home. Stefan works from home. We’re able to not go out into the hellscape that is our city. And all of the medical workers—everybody who works at grocery stores. My mailman. Oh, god, I’m so thankful for him. Are out walking through poison air. Okay? This pandemic has not been nice and Mother Nature is pretty pissed and… I think that ties in nicely to what we’re gonna talk about today—speaking of being pissed— [Laughs.] We’re gonna talk about how working from home may be disproportionately affecting working mothers versus working fathers.

music

Banjo strums; cheerful banjo music continues through dialogue.

theresa

Please—take a moment to remember: If you’re friends of the hosts of One Bad Mother, you should assume that when we talk about other moms, we’re talking about you.

biz

If you are married to the host of One Bad Mother, we definitely are talking about you.

theresa

Nothing we say constitutes professional parenting advice.

biz

Biz and Theresa’s children are brilliant, lovely, and exceedingly extraordinary.

theresa

Nothing said on this podcast about them implies otherwise. [Banjo music fades out.] [Biz and Audrey repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss the weekly topic.]

biz

This week, I get to talk with Audrey Goodson Kingo, who is the Deputy Editor of Working Mother. She is a mom of two and a maternal near-miss survivor. She has frequently covered maternal and postpartum health, paid family leave, workplace discrimination, and more. Her essay— [Sound of baby crying in background.] —“We Need to Share the Real, Gory, Painful Details of Postpartum Life”—and having babies in your house— [Audrey laughs.] —was— [Laughs.] Was nominated for a Folio Eddie & Ozzie Award. Hoo hooo! Welcome, Audrey!

audrey goodson kingo

Thank you very much. And Amelia’s going to be joining in a little. [Laughs.]

biz

Yes! Oh my gosh, guys, there’s a baby who can’t hear me on the Zoom. And I’m gonna just keep talking as if she [in high-pitched voice] can hear me! [Laughs.] [Audrey laughs. Sound of doorbell chiming in background/]

audrey

We like to make it authentic at Working Mother.

biz

I love it. Now, I heard a doorbell.

audrey

That is my husband, who will hopefully be making his way here soon to take said baby. [Laughs.]

biz

Guys? This is as raw and as hardcore as it gets. This may be my favorite interview I’ve ever had and we haven’t even started! Before we get started, who lives in your house? I see one! [Laughs.]

audrey

Yes. We’ve got one one-year-old. She’s got an older brother, Jay. He is five. And then my husband, Hasa.

biz

I gotta tell ya—I was just saying to my therapist today— [Laughs.] That, like, mine are 11 and 6. And that combination with good medication has made this— [Audrey laughs.] I’m not really sure—I mean, just—everybody who’s got kids five and under right now? I just really, really see you. Because there’s no—it’s not like putting ‘em on a remote learning thing does anything. That’s nothing. And like… there’s no daycare. There’s no park. There’s no, like—I am, like, the mental health for parents everywhere right now— [Laughs.] With kids five and under. I just— [Laughs.]

audrey

It’s brutal. It’s brutal.

biz

Yeah. Can I ask you? How are you?

audrey

Um, doing better now because her daycare reopened. [Laughs.] To be 100% honest.

biz

Yes!

audrey

So that has been huge. But I’m now home with my son, who just started virtual schooling. He’s five. So that means he asks for snacks the entire time. [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.]

biz

Yeah! My six-year-old’s been doing that. [Laughs.]

audrey

And running away from the iPad. So that’s where we are. Oh, good! Daddy’s here! [Laughs.]

biz

Yayyy! Daddy’s here! [Applauds and laughs.] Excellent. And voila! A baby disappears! [Laughs.] [Aubrey laughs.] Alright. We know who lives in your house and we know things are going as it is for everyone [through laughter] in the world right now.

audrey

Right. Clinging on for dear life. Yeah.

biz

Yeah. Clinging on for dear life. Just crying a little. I’m gonna wanna get into talking about… how… working from home has changed and is not well-balanced. As well as some of the things that are being done correctly, which is always good. I mean, I could sit here and rage about inequality all day long! But it’s nice to sometimes hear about the things that people are getting right. But I actually kinda wanna start with—as someone whose work focuses on the experiences of working parents, and many times specifically mothers—of which you identify—how are you not in a constant state of rage? Or are you?

audrey

Oh, I am. [Laughs.] I definitely am. And it’s because also what I cover is applying to my own personal life so there’s no escape. Right? I think about it all day long on a personal level. Trying to solve my family problems. My schooling. Y’know, right now all of my paycheck is going to childcare because of school closures. And then I see, y’know, moms—I’m wrestling with whether or not I should even stay in the workforce! I love my job! I love what I do! But when my entire paycheck’s going to childcare, do I stay? I mean, that’s a really hard—it’s really hard to say, y’know, hand your kids off every day and think it’s a worthy trade. Even though I’ve written the pieces about why you should stay! [Biz laughs.] I’ve written the pieces about—

biz

I know! Yeah! Ha, ha! [Laughs.]

audrey

Right! Right! [Laughs.]

biz

Whoa, wait. Are we all learning that like nothing is ever, like—like, there is no perfect balance! That’s just it!

crosstalk

Audrey: No. Exactly. Biz: And it like…

biz

And what works for a while doesn’t always continue to work and vice-versa. I’m glad you have— [Aubrey laughs.] —you live in a constant state of rage.

audrey

Right. Exactly. So I see it in my own life and then I log onto my laptop and I read about it all day. I see that moms are quitting. Y’know, we have survey after surveys now coming out. I just wrote a piece today—40% of working parents have either quit or scaled back their hours during the pandemic. So this is going to have really negative long-term cosnequences for women in the workforce. So you’re right! I think about it all day. I’m angry all day! I’m angry all night. [Laughs.]

biz

Oh, my god. [Laughs.] What do you do to relax? [Laughs.]

audrey

Uh… I read a lot of romance novels. [Laughs.]

biz

Oh, yes! [Laughs.] Yes! That is so good. I am so glad to hear that. I puzzle. I like to do a jigsaw puzzle. But now I should see if I can get some dirty jigsaw puzzles. That would be fun.

audrey

[Through laughter] There ya go.

biz

So, two of the pieces that I read recently—you’ve got a lot of great pieces. But two that I’ve read recently stand out, and when you put ‘em side by side, I think they tell a very compelling story. It’s not the best story. One is entitled, “Millennial Moms Without Children are Three Times More Likely than Dads to Stop Working.” And the other is, “Dads Three Times as Likely as Moms to Receive a Promotion While Working from Home During COVID." And I interpret those articles to suggest that companies—and women!—are saying that we don’t see women as deserving. Look. I—that’s us, too. Right? If the narrative has been that this whole time, talk to us about what you have found plays into that.

audrey

Yeah. I mean, well, it’s—you’re right! It’s a little of each, right? There are women who are looking around saying, “Why am I doing this to myself right now?” Like, “Why am I—y’know, I’m putting my whole paycheck towards childcare or I’m losing my mind. I just can’t do it all right now.” And so they’re voluntarily choosing to scale back or quit. And then on the other hand—y’know—and that’s what you see in the piece about how dads are getting more promotions and raises. Is that companies—y’know, they’ve always used a yardstick of productivity. You know, how much money are you bringing in for the clients. How much work are you doing. Well, if moms are doing more at home—and moms always do more at home—almost always, I should say—there are some great dads out there. If moms are doing more at home and they can put fewer hours into the work they’re doing, when it comes time to decide who gets a promotion, who’s gonna get it? It might not be the mom. And we’re seeing that now and I think we’re gonna keep seeing that play out as well.

biz

Yeah. It—[sighs.] It feels that salary has so much to do with not only value—what is value?—but, I mean, given that women still tend to make less for similar work, right? I mean, obviously there are family situations in which two parents are doing two totally different types of work. And I understand that one income may be the one that’s better to rely on. But we’re also saying that income takes precedence over self-interest, self-care, things that you may be really very good at. Also, it sort of inherently forces the decision to be made for a lot of couples that might have made other choices. Where one partner may choose to stay home and wanted to stay home, but can’t! Because financially it doesn’t make the same kind of sense… even though it would make probably more emotional sense for everybody involved.

audrey

It’s a self-fulfilling cycle. Right? So dads are making more—men have historically been making more money. So they—you preference the breadwinner in the family, right? But when you do that, and the women step back, it just reinforces that wage gap! So men keep making more money and the cycle continues for ever and ever.

biz

Yeah, no. I think also on paper it’s showing that it looks like women choose to be home. Or they can’t make a commitment. Which… again, is false, if the decisions are being—and right now? I don’t know. I don’t know if you’re aware. Decisions are horrible to make right now.

audrey

There are no good choices. That’s what all my friends have been—y’know—don’t feel guilty, because there are no good choices. Whatever you choose right now? Is what’s best for your family. And don’t feel guilty about it. Because this is a systemic problem. The Man has let us down. [Biz laughs.] And don’t feel guilty about it! The system was never built for working moms. It was built—y’know, we’re still working on this like 1950s, y’know, system where dads went to work and moms stayed home and that’s the work system we still have. We don’t have paid family leave like other developed countries. We don’t have subsidized childcare like a lot of European countries. We have a system that is just not built for working moms. And so, right! We feel like we’re, y’know, moms look bad or something if we have to step back. But we have a system that absolutely gives us no support in making those choices!

biz

Yeah. FYI, sisters, you’re not letting me down if you have to step out. Right? It’s okay. [Aubrey laughs.] Because this is a crazy situation. There was a poll—and I don’t really know where I’m going with this? But it made me laugh really hard. So I’m gonna read it out to all our listeners. The poll surveyed 1,051 US adults between the ages of 18 and 65, including 685 respondents with children. Almost half of men—42%—believed that working from home for an extended period of time would have a positive effect on their career progression. [Laughs.] Sorry. I can’t even finish it. But only 15% of women said the same. And then I literally wrote out, “Ha ha. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha ha, ha, ha. Ha, ha.” [Aubrey laughs.] I don’t know why I wanted to bring that up, but I’d like us to go somewhere with this. Because if I was to guess—based on what happens in my own house, where my partner and I are able to both work from home—his company cut back one day a week. So Fridays he’s technically not working. But for four days of the week, he comes into our bedroom and the door closes. And… I am out there. [Both laugh.] I am on the other side of that door. And even if I’m just jumping on to do some work or if I have to come in and do something, I am still the first to be interrupted. If my door is closed, people just open it. Right? Like, no matter what we say—no matter how many times we’ve set it up—is this part of that reason? Is that—I mean, why do you think this is the case? Besides sexism. [Both laugh.]

audrey

Well, there’s a really—there was a really good piece in the New York Times lately and the title of it was “They Go to Mommy First.” So part of the problem is these patterns are established from day one. Right? And… so when you bring the baby home from the hospital, y’know, some of it is just biological. Like, if you choose to breastfeed, that’s a huge time commitment and that just means right away you’re spending more time with the baby than your partner. Also, men are less likely to take paternity leave! Right? So they’re less likely to spend time with the baby. And so those patterns that are started from the very beginning about who’s the default caretaker get established. And then in times like these, when everybody’s at home—like you said— [Biz laughs.] —who gets the baby during their podcast? I’m just saying! [Laughs.]

biz

That’s right! I know! I love it! Who gets the baby during the podcast? That’s our new fun game, sponsored by One Bad Mother. Baby, baby, who gets the baby? [Aubrey laughs.] Um… I wanna talk about the theme of giving up. And I promise, guys, I do have some positive questions coming. [Aubrey laughs.] But I thought this was such—talk to us about the theme of giving up, as you wrote about it. I really liked this. This idea of—women are giving up on limiting screen time. Limiting snacks. Limiting—it’s like, but how that spirals into limiting work on some level. Right?

audrey

Right. I mean, what choice do you have?

biz

None.

audrey

I mean, we’re all in survival mode, right? I mean, my son watched two hours [through laughter] of YouTube videos today. [Biz laughs.] But he ate a salad, so I felt really good. [Laughs.]

biz

Oh! Good! Now, see? I’m all about balance! As long as something going in is good. And who knows what those YouTube videos were? He could’ve been learning quite a bit! [Laughs.]

audrey

Exactly. Who knows. So I mean, we—that’s just what we have to do right now. Right? I mean, we have to make it work one way or another and so, y’know, I think what’s tough for moms is there’s always that guilt. Right? So what are you giving up on and do you really feel comfortable with that choice, y’know? Do I feel good that my son watched two hours of YouTube today? No, I don’t feel great about that. But right now, that’s what I have to give up on. Y’know I don’t want to give up on my career so that’s my choice. So we’re all—I think we’re all in just this position of basically deciding what we’re going to give up on. Is it—y’know—letting them raid the snack cabinet? [Laughs.] The YouTube videos. Screen time.

biz

Wouldn’t it be amazing if what came out of all of this was people discovered everybody can make the choices that are best for them and their families and it’s not a judgment on you? Or—a judgment on someone else! That like—wouldn’t that be nice?

crosstalk

Biz: Just to be like, as opposed to having— Audrey: That would be lovely!

biz

As opposed to having to make all the excuses of like, “Oh, my kids watched this many [garbled blabbing] but he ate a salad!”

audrey

Exactly! But he made a salad! [Laughs.]

biz

But he ate a salad! Right? Like… I mean, it was a gummi bear salad, but “salad” was written in it. Alright. Let’s talk about people getting it right. Let’s start with the family-friendly companies and how some have been successful in supporting working parents since COVID began.

audrey

Yeah. Some have been really great. Microsoft, Google, Bank of America—there are a lot of companies—Facebook—who have given paid leave during this time to their employees so they’ve been able to take time off when they need it. They’ve also—a lot of companies have expanded their backup childcare? Bank of America comes to mind because they’re offering either $75 or $100 a day for every day that you’re working?

biz

Wow.

audrey

Through the end of the year? So that’s—yeah. That’s fabulous. So a lot of companies, I think, are really stepping up. And it’s interesting. I also wrote a piece recently about how companies have reacted to Black Lives Matter and the different social movements going on right now. So companies really are paying attention to their metrics right now. They don’t want to lose their women employees. They know people are looking pretty carefully at, y’know, “Are you keeping women of color at your company?” And so that’s the good news is they kind of have more incentive right now to put those things in place to really support the employees who need it. So I hope that that will continue and I hope more companies will catch on. That’s the good news. [Laughs.]

biz

That’s good news! What are benefits or policies working parents may not know to even ask for right now? Like, I mean—even under the best of times, I’ve had plenty of friends who didn’t know they could ask for certain things at their jobs or that certain things were available to them?

audrey

Well, the very first thing that comes to mind is the paid leave and the Family First Coronavirus Response Act. Which a lot of people don’t have a lot—don’t even know is available to them! And there were a lot of carve-outs so it’s not available to everybody, but if you work at a company with between 5—excuse me—between 50 and 500 employees, you may be able to take that. And so I would definitely go talk to your employer and see if that’s something you can take. If you need a little bit of paid leave, you should look into that. Flexible work, y’know. You don’t know what they are willing to offer to you unless you ask. Right? So ask for, y’know, some accommodations. Some different hours if you need them. Again, I think a lot of companies are willing to be flexible right now? I think a lot of companies understand it’s crazy time. So I would definitely ask.

biz

Yeah. Asking. I mean, this is true of men as well. Like, I was raised by people who said just what you said. “The worst they can say is no.” Okay? But I think many of us feel the worst thing they can say is “You’re fired. Get out.”

audrey

Yeah. Exactly. And that’s a real possibility right now, too.

biz

I know. I know. It just sucks.

audrey

There are also a lot of—we know that the number of workplace discrimination and caregiving discrimination suits have gone up right now. So I mean it is a real reality. On the other hand, y’know, there is a bit of an imposter syndrome that women have. Right? Like, a lot of studies have shown that men will apply for a job, I think, when they qualify for like six out of ten of the requirements and women wait until we have like ten out of ten. “I’m perfect for this position!” [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.]

biz

“Oh wait! But you’re still a woman.” [Both laugh.] I know. That is very true. Okay. Tell us—besides everybody just running away—is there anything from doing this research and doing these articles that you think we could reset or get right as we go forward? Like, I mean—y’know—we’re going back here. There’s a lot that’s not—we’re not gonna come out on the other side of this? Stronger. When it comes to women in the workforce. Or even to our own mental psyche when it comes to how we see ourselves in the workforce. But that may also—possibly—leave some room to demand certain changes or shift things. And our partners and the people out there who want to support women in the workplace—Stefan always says he’d rather work with [through laughter] an all-women team, any day of the week. [Aubrey laughs.] I just really need some sort of good news as the world burns around me. What do ya got, Audrey? [Laughs.]

audrey

Okay. I got some good news. [Biz cheers.] I have several pieces of good news for you. Okay. So first of all, studies have shown that housework has become more equitable during the pandemic. Now, it’s still not equal because we started from unequal places with women doing so much more? But by necessity, men have had to pick up some slack. So that’s the good news. And I think that pattern might stick! I think there are more men helping out at home and we know that when men help out at home, we can do more at work. So I think that’s a great pattern and I think it’s great that our kids are seeing that. Right? And especially our sons are seeing that. Right? And maybe that becomes a pattern for them going forward. So that’s one piece of good news.

biz

Yayyy!

audrey

I think that’s good news? [Laughs.]

biz

I’ll take it! I’ll take it!

audrey

And then the other piece—

biz

And you’re like, “That’s it.” [Laughs.]

audrey

That’s it. [Through laughter] Sorry. That’s all the good news I got.

biz

“That’s all I got. Bring the baby back. Woo! Baby!” Alright.

audrey

[Through laughter] Yeah. And the other good news, I think, is that it’s really exposed some of the weaknesses and the supports that we have for working moms. So it’s really shown people that we do need paid family leave. It’s really shown people that we do need some sort of childcare subsidies and we see how important that is on the campaign trail and we saw that, y’know, Joe Biden’s basically adopted some of the really great pieces of the other candidates’ plan to put forth a really great plan for childcare. So I don’t know what’s gonna happen in November? And I don’t know what’s gonna happen going forward? But— [Biz laughs.] We’re talking about it. And everyone seems to be really aware of it. And I think it’s becoming more of a bipartisan issue understanding that these are, y’know, this is how we’ve gotta support working families. And it’s good for the economy, too!

biz

Yeah. No. That’s—all those things are true! [Aubrey laughs.] They are all facts, and I just—in all this time sequestering myself fin this house, have had way too much time to think about how obvious so many things are. [Aubrey laughs.] Audrey? Thank you. Not only for the work that you are doing with Working Mother and the articles—and we’re gonna make sure that we link everybody up to the one’s we’ve spoken about—thank you so much. You’re doing an amazing job. There are two very small people in your house and under the best of circumstances, that can quite literally drive you crazy. And I don’t mean that in a toss-off kind of way as a person— [Aubrey laughs.] —who was driven crazy by it. So thank you so much!

audrey

Thank you! It’s really been a pleasure. And I love the podcast and I, y’know, I love it. Anything that empowers moms and makes us feel not guilty about our choices. Because—who’s got time for that?

biz

Just wanna make people stop feeling like shit— [Aubrey laughs.] —for being a mom. [Laughs.] Alright. Thank you so much.

audrey

Thank you.

music

“Ones and Zeroes” by “Awesome.” Steady, driving electric guitar with drum and woodwinds. [Music fades out.]

music

Laid-back guitar plays in background.

biz

One Bad Mother is supported in part by Desserted, a small business taking gifting up a notch—or more like 30 notches—with custom dessert boxes that change lives.

theresa

Okay, you guys. This dessert box actually did change my life. [Biz laughs.] I—it really did! I have a wheat allergy that I discovered like, I dunno, six months or a year ago. And I don’t usually get to eat good, yummy, baked treats. This box—it’s not all gluten-free, but you can get gluten-free options. And they are actually really, really good and possibly the best part was the hand-drawn, personalized card that felt like it was sent to me by somebody who knows me really well.

biz

Also, what is amazing is every time you press “purchase” and someone imbibes in a cookie, it changes a life through their rotating Give Back. This quarter, Desserted is supporting preemie babies in the NICU through the nonprofit Twenty-Five and Four.

theresa

For 25% off, go to Desserted.co/badmother. That’s 20% off at D-E-S-S-E-R-T-E-D.C-O/badmother. [Music fades out.]

theresa

Hey, you know what it’s time for! This week’s genius and fails! This is the part of the show where we share our genius moment of the week, as well as our failures, and feel better about ourselves by hearing yours. You can share some of your own by calling 206-350-9485. That’s 206-350-9485.

biz

Genius fail time, [dramatically] Theresa! Genius me!

clip

[Dramatic, swelling music in background.] Biz: Wow! Oh my God! Oh my God! I saw what you did! Oh my God! I’m paying attention! Wow! You, mom, are a genius. Oh my God, that’s fucking genius! [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective genius moments of the week.]

theresa

[Biz laughs wildly.] Hello!

biz

Whee! [Claps.]

theresa

I am so excited to hear you say those words into my ears.

biz

I am so excited to say those words ‘cause weird words are, [slowly] “Genius me, self.”

crosstalk

Biz: That doesn’t have the same ring. [Laughs.] Theresa: Yeah. That doesn’t—no. No.

theresa

It’s—yeah, no. That’s not the way it should be. This is the way it should be.

biz

This is the way. Yes. [Laughs.]

theresa

[Through laughter] Yes. Okay. I’m really excited, but I’m just gonna like pretend like this is normal and just tell you what my genius moment is!

biz

That’s genius enough!

theresa

Okay. So we’ve been living in a hellscape of smoke and heat for the past week or so? And my genius moment is that we have just been gradually accumulating, like, mats and small trampolines found by the side of the road— [Biz laughs.] —and little balance beams and got ourselves a crash pad and our living room is not a living room. It is a gymnasium. Full of equipment for kids to bounce and jump and climb on. And that is how we got through, like, our smokiest days. Which I hope are behind us now. But, y’know, it was truly not okay to be outside at all. And it’s not as though there’s somewhere we can go to exercise indoors, either!

biz

There’s a pandemic!

theresa

There’s a pandemic. [Biz laughs.] You can’t be outside. You can’t be inside. The only place you can be is inside your own house. And we actually did pretty well in those worst days because just walking through the living room was exercise for my kids ‘cause they had to like jump over things and bounce on things and climb over stuff and climb under stuff in order to get from one side of the house to the other. And that was genius!

biz

That is… so genius. And there’s two geniuses happening. One is you provided something for your children to do. La, la, la, la, la, la, la. The real genius— [Theresa laughs.] —is that, like—and I know, guys? This is just—yehhh—disproportionate to the things that are happening in the world. But we all need space? And one of the things I think we’re losing a lot of is any sort of individualized space? And I feel like parents are having to say goodbye to space that was once adult space? Even if it’s like a corner! And to like… to just let it happen. That sucks. And I see you. That is what—I’m not gonna say “good job,” ‘cause like—

theresa

But I mean, like, it’s not like it was adult space—really—before. Like, it was still cluttered and, y’know, whatever.

biz

Yeah. But now you can bounce over the clutter.

crosstalk

Biz: Which is great. Theresa: Yep. Bounce over the clutter.

biz

And I just see you. I think that’s amazing.

theresa

Thank you so much.

biz

Oh, it’s so nice to see you. [Laughs.]

theresa

It’s so nice to see you, too! [Laughs.]

biz

Okay. As mentioned, it has been a hellscape here. Last week, there were the fires. There was so much smoke where I live it was in the, like, 300s of the air quality. Like, the purples! The purples! Couldn’t—and there’s pandemic. And there was no sky or sun. [Laughs.] And it was the first week of school for my children. And it just… it just was too much. And do you know what I did?

theresa

What did you do?

biz

I sent my parents and my sister an email. And I said, “I’m really—I’m really done. I don’t—this is—it’s just a lot. I’m going in a lot of directions for a lot of people and I would like to ask you guys to take care of me. And send me… just some fun stuff. I’d like to get a package in the mail. Just some puzzles? Or something?” Dude. I have over ten new puzzles.

theresa

Awww.

biz

I have two brand-new crossword puzzle books. And my sister hooked me up with this wonderful independent bookstore in Texas that she loves called Murder By The Book and I got to have a one-on-one with Johnnycakes, who—I just told him the books that I liked reading! And he just—boom, boom, boom!—it was—ahhhh! It—guys? I—like—I—it makes me feel like I have some sort of control—like, puzzles. Y’know what I mean. Like I can’t control anything, but puzzles? You will go where I know you’re supposed to go! And mystery fiction? Let’s go punch somebody in the face for justice! And I normally don’t ask and I’m really glad I did and they did a really nice job and I feel… really supported.

theresa

Those are also things that are, like, really identity—like, core identity things for you, too. Like, that’s what I love about that. Like, you—yours is a double, too, Biz! You asking for help from people who could help you—like—it’s one of those situations where people say, “Uh, I wish there was something I could do to help!” And you actually just went to the people who would wanna help you and told them how they could help you. [Biz laughs.] Which is huge. But then like those—those things are so specific and personal to you. It’s so… like… I feel like that’s comforting on such a deep level. Like so much more than just like somebody sending you flowers or sending you cookies. Which would be great. But like those items are actually, like, they probably made you feel a little bit like a Self. Like, they made you feel like Biz. Yeah.

biz

They did. That is exactly right. Look at us! Being geniuses! [Theresa laughs.]

caller

[Answering machine beeps.] Hey, One Bad Mother! This is Ann from Kalamazoo. And I wanted to call because I just made a s’more appear out of thin air! Yeah! That’s right! I just amazed my teenaged daughter, who was on the Zoom call for what would have been the end of camp campfire night for her summer camp that obviously did not happen this year. And I snuck over and I used our stove and I roasted some marshmallows on a fork and I got a graham cracker and I had some chocolate and you know what? I walked into that room with a s’more on the plate and you would not believe the shock and awe on her face. So. [Sighs.] [Biz laughs.] This has been hard and a lot of days I don’t feel like I’m doing a very good job? But I really nailed it this time. Hang in there. Love the show. You guys are doing a great job.

biz

First of all, I’m not gonna break into the song “I Know a Girl from Kalamazoo.” You’re welcome. But oh my god! I like so many things about this, Theresa.

crosstalk

Theresa: It’s so nice! Biz: I like magically-appearing s’mores.

biz

But the fact that you could impress a teenager? Right? Like—

theresa

It’s so, so special. [Biz laughs.] That’s—it is! It’s like—

biz

It is! There’s like, such joy and like badassery in your voice. You’re like, “I did it!” [Laughs.] Just—I love this. This is like everything that a genius is supposed to be.

theresa

Yeah, it is. Way to think ahead. Way to make her feel special.

biz

Jab a fork in it and set it on fire. [Laughs.]

theresa

Yep! You can do that!

biz

You can do that! You are amazing! [Glumly] Failures.

clip

[Dramatic orchestral music plays in the background.] Theresa: [In a voice akin to the Wicked Witch of the West] Fail. Fail. Fail. FAIL! [Timpani with foot pedal engaged for humorous effect.] Biz: [Calmly] You suck! [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective failures of the week.]

biz

Ohhhh. Let me just slip into a comfortable pair of pants. [Theresa laughs.] Fail me, Theresa. [Laughs.]

theresa

Oh. You guys, I just want you to all sit back and just… loosely imagine all the failures you’ve missed from me [through laughter] over the past few weeks while I’ve been gone. Just stacking them up over here.

biz

Lucky! [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.]

theresa

It’s going great. Going great in the failures department.

biz

Just great.

theresa

I have had some fails. But the one that I have to share today—because it’s by far the thing that’s gotten in my way the most this past week—is that I managed to throw out my back again.

biz

Ooh!

theresa

In the middle of just—like, for no reason. Like, just… y’know, picked up a kid. Felt something weird but then didn’t really care for it. And then got jumped on when I wasn’t expecting it and it was all over. It was like, perfect storm of that and then just really having—like, having the kind of day where I was just in pain. Like, it wasn’t like things I did hurt? It was like standing or sitting hurt?

biz

Being a person hurt?

theresa

Yeah. Being a person hurt. [Biz laughs.] To the point where I was like feeling ill. And it was funny ‘cause I was talking about it to somebody and Jesse was there and he’s like, “Yeah, I can’t imagine—it’s pretty stress-free around here. I can’t imagine what’s stopping your back from healing.” Like, it’s just a joke, like—how— [Biz laughs.] How would it heal?

crosstalk

Theresa: I don’t know! Biz: Yeah, how would you heal it?

theresa

There’s no way for it to heal. So.

biz

You’re just carrying the weight of, like, months of, like, pandemic. Family. School. Remote—

theresa

Everything.

biz

Remote everything.

theresa

Yeah! And this probably isn’t even the first time it’s happened during the pandemic.

biz

Probably not!

theresa

But like the worst part is, every time it happens, I’m like, “Oh, yeah, that’s because I like still have no core strength because I still haven’t—” [Biz laughs.] “—like, found time to exercise.” And like, that’s—the phrase “find time to exercise”— [Biz laughs.] —is just, it’s humorous. It doesn’t even hurt me anymore. It can’t hurt me anymore. It’s just not… it’s just not… it’s just not… it doesn’t exist. It doesn’t exist.

biz

The only thing that can hurt you is yourself.

theresa

Yes. [Laughs.]

biz

And your back. [Laughs.]

theresa

[Through laughter] Yes. Just my back.

biz

God. There’s nothing worse than that moment where you’re like, “Huh. Something feels off.” And then a child launches onto you and you’re like, “That’s my spine.”

theresa

Yeah.

biz

Yeah. I am sorry.

theresa

Yeah, I know. Thanks.

biz

You’re failing at taking care of yourself, Theresa! [Laughs.]

theresa

I am! Guess what? I totally am! Every day. [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.]

biz

I miss you so much! Alright. I think I’ve mentioned on the show that I just give my kids stuff all the time and let ‘em just do anything they fucking want.

theresa

Oh, yeah.

biz

Just so much. And the recent thing was—Ellis has wanted to play on the Nintendo Switch, Breath of the Wild: The Legend of Zelda game. That, y’know, we’ve had forever. IT is something I play. We let Katy Belle play it. Y’know, three years ago she played it. And y’know, every time she’d start, it would turn into like a meltdown of her just being so frustrated. And I was like, “This is too complicated a game for Ellis. I’m not—no, Ellis, you’re like—” When we got it, I was like, “You’re five. You’re not gonna—I mean, four. You don’t get to play this.” But now, as we approach seven—and he’s mastered every other Nintendo game in the house—he’s very good at it! He’s special. He wanted to play this. And I’m like, “No. No. No. No. No. Okay.” [Laughs.] “I’ll let you play it. Please understand, though, if it ever looks like it’s getting too frustrating—we’re gonna stop.” “Okay. No, I am so ready.” [Theresa laughs.] It is just a runaway train of just something else to make him yell. And scream. And get upset about and not be able to communicate clearly—like, we had just made so many strides in clearer communication and this just [makes sound of something breaking] and it’s like… I just wanna be like, “I’m gonna fucking take this Switch and throw it in the toilet!” Like I just wanna like— [Laughs.] Like, I mean… and the door’s open. That—horses are out of the barn. Whatever metaphor—

theresa

It’s over.

biz

It’s over.

theresa

It’s over. You did it.

biz

And here’s an upcoming fail. I feel like the only way to stop this? IS to get a brand-new game of some kind. [Laughs.]

theresa

Right. Oh, totally. Oh, totally. Totally.

biz

Yep. Problem solved.

theresa

Yeah. Well you know what you could just do is sit your almost-seven-year-old down and say, “See? You were wrong! You couldn’t handle this!”

biz

“You can’t handle this.”

crosstalk

Theresa: That’ll work really well. Biz: “I’ve read a paper that I’m not supposed to tell you you’re doing a good job.” [Theresa laughs.]

biz

Instead I’m going to tell you how much you’re failing! Alright. Let’s hear somebody else. [Laughs.]

theresa

Okay.

caller

[Answering machine beeps.] So… this is a fail. And I wanna add rant, but I think that’s just to try to make me feel better. [Biz laughs.] I just—I use Marco Polo with a friend of mine who also has a toddler and is working full time and has an unhelpful partner. And, y’know… we just—it’s a fast way to communicate. And so I was sitting at a red light that I know is really long. I popped open Marco Polo and I gloated that today, at 9:30 in the morning, I left for the Farmer’s Market for the first time since the pandemic. And I just said to my husband, “I’m gonna go to the Farmer’s Market.” And he said, “Okay, have fun.” There wasn’t a conversation about the fact that the toddler was awake. And that I maybe go during nap or anything. And I just went. And I told my friend this on the Marco Polo. I gloated about how I just went and what a win that was and so excited. And then I got to the Farmer’s Market and my debit card was not with me. It was at home. So my fail is that I tried to do something and it—I just can’t do it. And also that I gloated. I think that’s a fail. It’s just, don’t share your happy news. [Biz laughs.] Before it’s been fully executed. That’s my lesson. Okay. Everybody is doing a great job and I will do better next time. Bye!

biz

I think you’re doing a wonderful job of failing. What do you mean, you’ll try better next time? [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.]

theresa

That was a perfect fail! What’s the problem?

biz

That was perfect! Yeah! I really like the new catchphrase, “Just don’t share your happy news.”

theresa

I know. [Biz laughs.] I know.

biz

Just—don’t share it. Because you’re gonna get it squashed. I’ve had something similar happen where I got to get away from my family and go to a farmer’s market when my children were smaller and I didn’t have cash. And it was a cash-only market. And I cried. Just there. ‘Cause once you go home—

crosstalk

Theresa: It’s over. Yeah. Yeah. Biz: You might as well stay home! It’s over. It is over.

biz

You’re not going back out. It’s not happening. And your day is ruined.

theresa

Yeah.

biz

Yeah.

theresa

That was your thing that you were gonna do. So now you’ve done it, whether you’ve done it or not. [Biz laughs.]

biz

Yeah. Whether you succeeded at doing it. That was it! Oh well!

theresa

Yep.

biz

You’re doing a horrible job trying to be happy.

theresa

You are. [Biz laughs.]

music

“Mom Song” by Adira Amram. Mellow piano music with lyrics. You are the greatest mom I’ve ever known. I love you, I love you. When I have a problem, I call you on the phone. I love you, I love you. [Music fades out.]

biz

Cheerful banjo plays in background.

theresa

One Bad Mother is supported in part by Care.com.

biz

Well, it’s back to school! What’s that look like? You can find trusted caregivers for your every need and boy do I have needs. [Theresa laughs.] Whether it’s full time, part time, or anything in-between! As the world’s largest online destination for finding and managing family care, Care.com helps millions of families find high-quality care for their children, ageing loved ones, home, and pets. Care.com can also help with all your household employer obligations, including payroll and taxes with Care.com Home Pay.

theresa

To save 30% off a Care.com premium membership, visit Care.com/badmother or use the promo code “badmother.” [Music fades out.]

promo

Music: Cheerful, jazzy, old-timey music plays in background. Speaker 1: Hey, you like movies? How about coming up with movie ideas over the course of an hour? ‘Cause that’s what we do every week on Story Break, a writers’ room podcast where three Hollywood professionals have an hour to come up with a pitch for a movie or TV show based off of totally zany prompts. Speaker 2: Like that time we reimagined Star Wars based on our phones’ autocomplete! Speaker 3: Luke Skywalker is a family man and it’s Star Wars but it’s a good idea. [Multiple people laugh.] Speaker 4: Okay. How about a time we wrote the story of a bunch of Disney Channel Original Movies based solely on the title and the poster? Speaker 5: Okay, Sarah Hyland is a 50-foot woman. Let’s just go with it, guys. Speaker 1: Or the time we finally cracked the Adobe Photoshop Feature Film. Speaker 5: Stamp Tool is your Woody, and then the autofill— Speaker 1: Ohhhh. Speaker 5: —Is the new Buzz Lightyear! [Multiple people laugh.] Speaker 1: Join us as we have a good time imagining all the movies Hollywood is [accusatory voice] too cowardly to make! [Dramatic voice] Story Break comes out every Thursday on Maximum Fun. [Regular voice] don’t know why I’m using this voice now. [Music ends.]

promo

James Arthur: Hi, I’m James, host of Minority Korner, which is a—? Speaker 1: Podcast that’s all about intersectionality. It’s hosted by James with a guest host every week. Speaker 2: Discussing all sorts of wonderful issues; nerdy and political. Speaker 3: Pop culture— Speaker 1: Black, queer feminism. Speaker 4: Race. Sexuality. Speaker 5: News. Speaker 6: You’re gonna learn your history. There’s self-empowerment. And it’s told by what feels like your best friend. Speaker 2: Why should someone listen to Minority Korner? Speaker 7: Why not? Speaker 8: Oh my god. Free stuff. James: There’s not free stuff. Speaker 1: The listeners of Minority Korner will enjoy some necessary lols, but mainly a look at what’s happening in our world through a colorful lens. Speaker 2: People will get the perspective of… marginalized communities. Speaker 1: I feel heard. I feel seen. Speaker 9: Like you said, you need to understand how to be more proactive in your community? And this is a great way to get started. James: Join us every Friday on MaxFun, or wherever you get your podcast. Multiple speakers: Minority Korner! Because together, we’re the majority. 

biz

Theresa was able to stick around and join me. Let’s listen to a mom have a breakdown.

caller

[Answering machine beeps.] Hi, One Bad Mother. This is a rant. I… I live in an area where COVID cases are reasonably stable and our school is planning on reopening for this hybrid model, which is a couple of days in school; most of the week at home. Whatever. It’s fine. Like, you have the choice between doing that or the fully-remote thing. And today the school sent out the surveys to find out who’s doing what so that everybody knows—so the school can start making their plans. Right? That makes sense! That needs to happen. But what would be really, really nice is if people in the school’s Facebook group could stop saying how—“Well, this isn’t gonna be like normal school. Remember. Everything’s gonna be really different. Remember. Talk to people and make sure you know what you’re getting yourself in for.” Look. We fucking know it’s gonna be different! [Biz laughs.] We know that! We figured it out! Because everything has been different since March. It all sucks. Nothing doesn’t suck right now. So can we stop judging how other people are trying to make their shit go around and just let people make the decisions they need to make that are best for their family, without telling them, “Don’t forget! School’s going to be different this year and everything’s gonna suck.” Yeah. We know. It already sucks. There’s no way it’s not gonna suck. So… Mmm! Anyway. [Biz laughs.] That’s it! That’s my rant. I’m really tired of hearing how much school is gonna suck when I already know that. [Biz laughs.] My mother-in-law’s friends keep asking how I’m doing? And what she tells them is, “You know that really great feeling when your youngest went off to school for the full day for the first time and you suddenly had this time to yourself to like really think about who you are and what you wanna do?” [Biz laughs.] And they’re like, “Yeah, yeah, yeah!” “Yeah. She just got that taken away from her.” And they’re like, “Oh.” That’s where I am right now. School’s gonna suck. The school year is not what I expected because now that my youngest is finally in full-day school, he’s also doing it from home. So I guess I can’t do that stuff that I was gonna do. Anyway. No, this is—yeah. That’s the end of my rant. [Biz laughs.] Everybody? You’re doing a great job. I hope I am too. As long as I don’t start screaming on Facebook. [Laughs.] Bye. [Biz laughs.]

biz

That’s always—that’s always a good rule of thumb. “As long as I don’t start screaming on Facebook, all will be okay.” You are—

theresa

Scream into the One Bad Mother hotline instead!

biz

Yeah! That’s right! You are doing such a good job. Theresa? I just—I wanna look to you— [Both laugh.]

theresa

Yeah. Wow. I… I am just so—I’m so with you, caller. I haven’t been able to do much in the way of social media, but I just—I’m so with you in this feeling of, “Does anyone—who is it that thinks that anyone needs to be reminded that things will be weird or bad? Right now? Anywhere? Specifically, school.” Like, whether or not your kids are doing anything at all out in the world— [Biz laughs.] —you’re already dealing with your kids having to figure out how to wear masks at times. There’s always gonna be a time where that’s called for. And the handwashing and the not seeing anyone and just all this—I mean, it’s just—it’s amazing that the thought would cross someone’s mind, like, “Oh, I just should make sure everyone knows how bad things will be.”

biz

Well, it also—like, I think—it also kind of… we’ve spoken on the show that people aren’t doing things at you. And that lots of times when it feels like you are being @’d at, it may just be because we’re all trying to process our own business. Right?

theresa

And self-judging and trying to figure out what the right thing is to do. Yeah.

biz

So when someone says… “Do you know? Are you aware?” Or whatever, it’s kind of loaded with… the suggestion that your choice isn’t the right one.

theresa

It is. It is.

biz

And—but I’m like, “Let’s just turn that mirror around! Are you sure you’re not saying that to give yourself the talk you need?” Right? Like, it’s—

theresa

Well, that is! We’re all just giving ourselves the talk that we need! Like, the person who said that is probably feeling really stressed about the idea of whatever they chose to do. And, y’know, it’s just… truly what I really appreciate about this caller is just the point that, yes, like, we’re all dealing with a really rough set of choices. Nobody is excited about the choices. There’s nobody who’s like, “Okay, I don’t have to think twice about this. I know this is the right answer.” It’s just—there’s just a lot of mental sorting that we’re all doing. And trying to balance things and… and it’s just really, really hard.

biz

And not a single person’s circumstances are the same as somebody else’s. Y’know? Like, we both may choose to do it from home, but that doesn’t mean that experience is the same. Both equally good or bad! Right? Like, it just—and—oh! Just quick shoutout to—yeah! I actually really like that description of, “Hey, you remember that first year everybody—like, your last kid—” I do! My first year was last year. And I absolutely—that is such a great description of the, like, shitshow place so many are in right now. Like it’s just—this has just been a year of like, “Oh! Were you planning on that? No. How about now? No.” Just… that’s a stressful place to be. You’re doing… such a good job. Call back and yell into the phone some more. You are not alone. You are doing remarkable.

theresa

Yeah, you are.

biz

Theresa? You are also doing remarkable. I know I’m not going to get to keep you for the wrap-up, so I’m just gonna give Theresa a little individual wrap-up right now and say… how glad I am that you were able to come in and do this today. And the chair, as it were, the Zoom screen is always open to you! [Theresa laughs.] Any time you want!

theresa

Thank you, Biz. It’s been really, really nice being back. I hope I can keep coming back. I love it here. I love you. I love you, too, Hannah. I love all of you, our listeners. And you guys are doing such a good job. And I will talk to you soon.

biz

Oh my god, guys. That was so nice to see and talk to Theresa! That—I needed that. I really needed that. Hannah and I both were like screaming when she came on the screen. What did we learn today, guys? We learned that we miss and love Theresa, that’s 100% sure. We learned that moms continue to get shit upon. [Laughs.] More than their male counterparts. I don’t know, guys. Yeah. I mean… we all can sit down and list all the reasons why we understand why the balance is really unfair at this particular moment when all the blinders have been ripped off and we are at home and we do not have childcare support and… everybody’s in the house together. And kids are different ages and have different needs and we’re all trying to balance everything? It stinks! It does stink! And it is falling disproportionately on the moms to carry both. To be able to do it all. In heels. Backwards. Y’know? And it’s just… none of us can. No one can. So do not feel bad if you are unable to do that. Okay? Guys? I think the real lesson that we’re learning today is that it is unbelievable that we are still here. And… it is really hard and I—myself—am having a really hard time sitting in all of… the bad news. I just wanna acknowledge, it’s really hard right now. What I’m trying to get to is, even with all this bad news—even with all of this, like—[sighs.] Overwhelming sense of… blech. Awful. It is okay to go small. It’s okay to go small in your house. It’s okay to let your focus for a while be just on what is right in front of you. That is okay. You are not letting anybody down by doing that. And then we will take steps from there. Okay? It… yeah. I—I don’t know. I’m up on the box again. I apologize. Uh… but it’s such a nice view from up here on the soapbox, Hannah! Um… I think what I’m trying to say is you guys are doing an amazing job? And I see you? And it is hard? And there are no decisions? And… what I love about the Hotline is that I really get to hear people celebrating the absolute smallest of victories. Be you in a Trader Joe’s parking lot or making a s’more appear out of nowhere. That’s what I mean. Let’s get small, guys! [Laughs.] Let’s get real small in here and celebrate those things. You guys are doing great! Thank you for the break. Hannah and I both had some nice time off. And we’ll talk to you next week. Bye!

music

“Mama Blues” by Cornbread Ted and the Butterbeans. Strumming acoustic guitar with harmonica and lyrics. _I got the lowdown momma blues_ Got the lowdown momma blues Gots the lowdown momma blues The lowdown momma blues Gots the lowdown momma blues Got the lowdown momma blues You know that’s right [Music fades somewhat, plays in background of dialogue.]

biz

We’d like to thank MaxFun; our producer, Hannah Smith; our husbands, Stefan Lawrence and Jesse Thorn; our perfect children, who provide us with inspiration to say all these horrible things; and of course, you, our listeners. To find out more about the songs you heard on today’s podcast and more about the show, please go to MaximumFun.org/onebadmother. For information about live shows, our book and press, please check out OneBadMotherPodcast.com.

theresa

One Bad Mother is a member of the Maximum Fun family of podcasts. To support the show go to MaximumFun.org/donate. [Music continues for a while before fading out.]

speaker 1

MaximumFun.org.

speaker 2

Comedy and culture.

speaker 3

Artist owned—

speaker 4

—Audience supported.

About the show

One Bad Mother is a comedy podcast hosted by Biz Ellis and Theresa Thorn about motherhood and how unnatural it sometimes is. We aren’t all magical vessels!

Join us every week as we deal with the thrills and embarrassments of motherhood and strive for less judging and more laughing.

Call in your geniuses and fails: 206-350-9485. For booking and guest ideas, please email onebadmother@maximumfun.org. To keep up with One Bad Mother on social media, follow @onebadmothers on Twitter and Instagram.

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