TRANSCRIPT Oh No, Ross and Carrie!: Ross and Carrie Stand Tall: Posture Correction Edition

Ross and Carrie take the advice of stern aunts everywhere, and sit up straight. Armed with two posture devices – one electronic, one very very manual – they trade off with these gadgets that aim to correct slouches, improve health, and boost self-esteem.

Podcast: Oh No, Ross and Carrie!

Episode number: 245

Transcript

music

“Oh No, Ross and Carrie! Theme Song” by Brian Keith Dalton. A jaunty, upbeat instrumental.

ross blocher

Hello! And welcome to Oh, No, Ross and Carrie! The show where we don’t just report on fringe science, spirituality, and claims of the paranormal, but take part ourselves.

carrie poppy

Yep! When they make the claims, we show up so you don’t have to. I’m Carrie Poppy.

ross

And I’m Ross Blocher. And we are talking today about good posture.

carrie

About being upright citizens.

ross

We’re not quite a brigade, though.

carrie

[Chuckles lightly] Correct.

ross

This is something that—well, many people had suggested to us, but also the internet suggested to us.

carrie

So many times.

ross

Every day—

carrie

Social media, man.

ross

—for months on end. You’ve seen it, as you’re scrolling though your feed, looking at your friends, getting angry at political news, you see some attractive person and they’re slouched over. And then all of a sudden, they sit bolt upright, and they’ve got a little white thing on the back of their backs.

carrie

And you’re like, “They are instantly more fuckable.’

ross

[Chuckles] You think, “Wow! Oh my goodness, look how she went from zero to hero—“ [Carrie laughs.] “—just by straightening her posture.”

carrie

She was like a 9.4 before, and now she’s a ten.

ross

[Chuckling] I was trying to avoid using the rating system.

carrie

Sure.

ross

Or some handsome, muscly guy, and he’s doing the same thing. Just like, “Aw, look at that slob.”

carrie

[In a gravelly tone] “Oh, I’m so sad, and I’m in black and white right now, and I hate my life.”

ross

One second later:

carrie

Whoa!

ross

He put his shoulders back!

carrie

“I’m in all color now! I love my life!”

ross

So it seems like the main—I don’t know if, “culprit,” is the right word here. But the main product is Upright.

carrie

Upright GO.

ross

Upright GO. Yeah, that’s the—

carrie

Yeah.

ross

—one you can buy. There’s a couple different versions of it. So we kept seeing that. But there’s also a whole host of similar products and ones that also are kind of just braces, if you will.

carrie

Yeah, more manual.

ross

So we thought, “Well, let’s give these a shot. Let’s try them. See if we can improve our postures,” which I think is a good goal.

carrie

I think so. And I’m not just posturing when I say that.

ross

Aw [chuckles pointedly].

carrie

I have always felt that my posture is poor

ross

Yeah, same here. And—

carrie

Wow, Ross. Rude [beat, then laughs quietly].

ross

[Beat, then chuckles] About myself.

carrie

Oookay.

ross

But I can see how it would have come across that way. [Carrie giggles.] It’s one of those things that you see in other people very easily. Like, “Oh, she’s slouches a lot.”

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

But it’s harder to see on yourself, ‘cause you’re in your own body.

carrie

That’s right.

ross

But, you know, I’ll catch myself. For hours on end, I spend a lot of time in front of computers.

carrie

Me, too.

ross

And I’ll realize for a long time my butt has been on the very edge of the seat, and the rest of me is just—

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

—you know, slouching back. And I think, “Oh, this—“

carrie

Little turtle pose.

ross

“This is not sustainable.”

carrie

For sure. [Chuckles] But you’re doing it right now and you’re sustaining it. Um—

ross

[Chuckles] Look, I—yeah, I guess, clearly it was sustainable for hours on end. Or, yeah, the reverse. Which is hunching forward. And—

carrie

Yeah, I’m more of a huncher-forward-er.

ross

[Carrie makes a few affirming sounds as Ross speaks.] Yeah, I—I do both. I’m an—I’m a shifter. I don’t stay in place for long. It’s funny. Once I gave an hour-long lecture, and I watched it later. And for some reason I had to, like, kind of watch it in fast mode, or I was scrubbing through it or something. And I just saw, like, I was doing this sort of dance. Where—da-dun, da-dun, da-dun. You know, where, like, one foot would sort of shift out forward and then the other foot would. And I’ve realized just over time, like I don’t hold still well.

carrie

Uh-huh. Same

ross

I’m always just assumed that that’s kind of healthy, ‘cause then I don’t get, you know, the equivalent of bedsores or whatever, you know.

carrie

Mm-hmm!

ross

I’m always kind of moving around where I’m, uh, situated. But, you know, certainly I could have better posture.

carrie

I hunch forward easily. And my mom—I guess—has mild scoliosis? I can’t actually, like, see it. But I guess the doctor has told her that.

ross

Okay.

carrie

And it ended up really harming her lower back. She had to get a cage put in there in her older age.

ross

Oh, goodness!

carrie

Yeah. Sooo, you know, I’m trying to pay attention to my posture.

ross

Yeah!

carrie

At least be cognizant of it.

ross

So it’s, you know, on my shortlist of things that are just general good life advice. You know, like, eat healthy. Drink lots of water.

carrie

Get exercise.

ross

Yeah. Look after your posture.

carrie

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

ross

Yeah. All of those thing are just good advice for everybody.

carrie

Read. If you can.

ross

Rrread. Yeah! Or have someone read to you.

carrie

Keep the air clean.

ross

Right? Reduce, reuse, recycle.

carrie

Right.

ross

I feel like this could be an episode, ‘cause, you know, we spend a lot of time—

carrie

He who hesitates is lost.

ross

—talking about bad ideas. There are good ideas out there.

carrie

True.

ross

And—wait, what was the last one you said?

carrie

[Giggles] He who hesitates is lost?

ross

That’s so funny, ‘cause I hesitated to understand that. Uh—

carrie

And yet, look before you leap.

ross

It’s so funny. Every now and then, I’ll come across a phrase that my wife hasn’t heard.

carrie

Uh-huh.

ross

And I just wonder, “How did you miss that?” The other day it was, “A stitch in time saves nine.”

carrie

Oh, wow! Yeah.

ross

And she’s like, “Did you just make that up?” “Uh, no.”

carrie

Wasn’t it you who hadn’t heard, “Six of one, half a dozen of the other.”

ross

I had not. Nope. Nope.

carrie

That’s so crazy.

ross

That—and now that you taught me that—

carrie

Right. You hear it everywhere.

ross

Of course. I of course hear it all the time. And then I always want to send it to you, like, “Look, look, I saw it.”

carrie

[Laughs] “Yes, it’s a phrase in the English language.”

ross

Yeah, when Cara and I were first dating, I once said something about, like, “Oh, I know how that really gets your goat.” And she’s like, “What?”

carrie

[Laughs loudly] That would be very funny to hear for the first time as an adult.

ross

“G—Goat? What goat? I don’t—what is that—“

carrie

“I don’t have a goat!”

ross

“What does that mean?” The other one was—

carrie

[Chuckles] And then you’re forced to explain, like, “Well, it means nothing.”

ross

[Chuckles] Right, yeah.

carrie

“It means nothing at all!”

ross

“I—uh—English idioms are strange.” What was the other one? “Good enough for government work.”

carrie

You know what? I had never heard that until probably, like, age 20. ‘Cause I—I remember hearing it and being like, “What?!”

ross

So there you go. How did we get there? Anyways.

carrie

Oh, “Good rules.”

ross

“Good rules.” So, you know, there are lots of them out there, and one of them is to have good posture. So—

carrie

Yes.

ross

—if one of these devices can help you—and me—have better posture, that’s a good thing.

carrie

Why not, I say.

ross

Let’s do it.

carrie

Why not?!

ross

Well, we’ll be back next week to tell you how it went. [Carrie chuckles pointedly.] Just kidding. That’s not how we do the show.

carrie

JK.

ross

We actually bought this a long time ago.

carrie

Yes.

ross

Back when we were buying our foot pads for our foot detox episodes.

carrie

And you know what? I had one before that!

ross

Did you really?

carrie

Cause my aforementioned mother—so a couple years ago—I think it was on some online wishlist I had.

ross

Mm-hmm.

carrie

I had put it on there. I was like, “Yeah, that sounds cool. See if I can improve my posture.” So my mom saw it and got it for me. And then I can’t remember why—I—I know I didn’t use it. But I can’t remember if that was just plain laziness, or if I tried to and ran into some bug and never picked it up again or what. But I had one and it was the Upright GO original, which is not available anymore.

ross

Oh, you can’t even buy version one, huh?

carrie

[In the negative] Mm-mm.

ross

I think when I bought ours, there was still the option to get the first one.

carrie

Mmm.

ross

But we bought the Upright GO 2.

carrie

Yes.

ross

The sequel.

carrie

Well, the one I had had a magnet to connect it to you instead of adhesive.

ross

[Quietly] What?!

carrie

I’m pretty sure you can’t buy this one anymore.

ross

Wait, a magnet?!

carrie

Mm-hmm. So you’d put it on—

ross

So, you have to—wait, no. I know where you’re going with this.

carrie

You make yourself metal.

ross

Yeah, exactly. So, you have someone surgically embed a metal plate—

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

—into your back, and then that attaches on the outside.

carrie

The original Upright is the mark of the beast.

ross

Okay.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

Oh, so it’s the back of the right hand or on the forehead.

carrie

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Correct.

ross

Okay, yes.

carrie

Nooo.

ross

[Mock disappointed] Oh.

carrie

You would put it on the inside of your shirt, facing out. And then the magnetic attachment on to other side of your shirt.

ross

Oh, I see. So it’s holding on to your…

carrie

Shirt.

ross

Shirt. Oh, that’s interesting.

carrie

Yeah, and—

ross

Huh.

carrie

—during this experiment, as we were experimenting with the newer versions, I thought, “Well, I’m gonna at least put that one on.” So I went and found it and put it on. It no longer speaks to the app. It’s useless. But I wanted to feel it on my body. And I gotta say, they have improved things. ‘Cause even though I would love the idea of not having to use an adhesive strip over and over—

ross

Yeah.

carrie

—your shirt moves too much. It’s not your back. You’re shirt's not your back! I’m Carrie Poppy. That’s what I learned.

ross

[Laughs] Yeah, adhesive strips were never part of my life before this podcast. And now they are.

carrie

[Thoughtfully] Oh, yeah. Touché. Same

ross

Thing that need to adhere to your skin.

carrie

If one day we find out that, like, tape is the main cause of cancer, we’re fucked.

ross

Well, let’s—

carrie

I don’t think that will happen, though.

ross

—let’s hope that doesn’t. So, the—the first one we bought was the Upright Go 2. When I bought it back in September, it was—all told, with shipping and tax and all that—$107.20.

carrie

Ooh! Okay.

ross

Yeah, not—

carrie

That’s pricey.

ross

Not cheap.

carrie

So there are three models you can currently buy if you go to their website. There’s the Upright Go, the Upright 2—which is lightly smaller, more sleek—

ross

Mm-hmm.

carrie

—and then the Upright necklace.

ross

Oh, yeah! that’s right. I think around the time we were trying it, they had just started selling that as well.

carrie

Oh, okay. That makes sense. I think you still have to buy either the Upright or the Upright GO to go in the necklace. But basically it has a nice little look on the front, like a sort of a V-neck design. And then in the back, the Upright is just sort of hanging on the other side of you.

ross

Another way to avoid adhesives.

carrie

Right.

ross

Okay.

carrie

But I imagine you may run into the same problem I did with the magnet one.

ross

I’m looking at their website. They’ve, uh, got an ad reminding you you can buy one for Mother’s Day. “Show Mom that you’ve got her back.”

carrie

Ohhh!

ross

I see. Okay.

carrie

Or that you’ve noticed she has poor posture.

ross

[Chuckles] Right. And, yeah, it looks like I’m seeing incentives here for like $90 certain places. So maybe it would end up being a little cheaper— [Carrie makes an intrigued sound.] —than the full-priced $100 one. Interesting. Oh, they sell them at Apple stores? Oh, that’s appropriate. ‘Cause the Upright Go device is a sleek piece of white, molded plastic.

carrie

Totally looks like it would be made by Apple.

ross

Yeah, their little logo—kind of like a lightening bolt sort of thing, but also maybe a—a graph, where you sort of see the downward slope going from the negative values to the positive values on the X axis. That’s a bad description. And then there’s sort of a depressed circle that is your on and off button—

carrie

Yes.

ross

—how you kind of communicate with the thing. And down at the bottom, there's a USB port where you can just plug it in. It’s just for charging, essentially. All of the communication and control happens through your phone. And it wirelessly, you know, connects your Bluetooth to your phone.

carrie

So you will have to get the Upright app, which I have on my phone here.

ross

Should we call it the Appright?

carrie

Nooo, okay! Okay. I see where you’re going with that. It’s actually the Upright GO, so Appright Go.

ross

Hey, I like it.

carrie

Yeah, and, uh, listen, I think I’m fucking sick of apps.

ross

You got a lot of apps, huh?

carrie

I don't want any more apps.

ross

Yeah.

carrie

This is the main drawback for me, is like, “Ugh. Another thing to connect to my phone and monitor and be invested in.”

ross

Yeah.

carrie

[Sighs] I don’t know. It’s too much.

ross

I—I think we went through that same process with computers. Like, personal computers. People started getting all these different little programs that did everything, and then they all got sort of built into the operating system.

carrie

Mm-hmmm.

ross

And then people are like, “I don’t want to buy a bunch of programs”

carrie

Yeah. Maybe I like having a paper address book.

ross

“My operating system should be able to search for viruses. Why do I need a separate thing?” I think the same app fatigue is setting in for people on phones as well.

carrie

Yeah. So—

ross

Oh, yeah? Okay. You got it running there. Yeah.

carrie

I still did it. Yeah. You can see—okay, I’m leaning a—toward the mic. Awayyy from the mic. Toward the mic.

ross

So Carrie is currently wearing this small piece of molded plastic on her back.

carrie

Yes, I am.

ross

It's maybe like—I don’t know, 1.5 inches wide by maybe 3 inches tall. Something like that.

carrie

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

ross

In that neighborhood.

carrie

You put tape on the back of it, this special tape that they send you. It’s double-sided.

ross

Mm-hmm.

carrie

And then you stick it on your back and you put it kind of right between your shoulder blades.

ross

Oh, here we go. On their website, they talk about some of the comparative features between the original GO and the all-new GO 2. Oh, yeah. So the GO 2 is 1.89 inches. So just under 2 inches.

carrie

Mm. Mm-hmm.

ross

I assume that’s tall. Oh, it’s supposed to get 40 hours of battery life?

carrie

Oh, is that right? Okay.

ross

Impressive.

carrie

I've just been charging it at night, but…

ross

It’s got multiple sensors. So I assume there’s an accelerometer. So, this one’s has—I guess—a couple. And a 40% wider adhesive.

carrie

Oh! Finally.

ross

Okay.

carrie

Yeah, so it sticks on your back. And I will say this about it. You forget it’s there, as far as the, like, physical feel of it on your back.

ross

You do?

carrie

Yeah.

ross

Yeah.

carrie

Very light.

ross

I agree. We’ll talk about another product in a bit. But I felt like this was one that really did just sort of disappear into the background.

carrie

Until…

ross

Until… [Carrie mimics an ominous three-beat sting, as from a classic horror film.] It lets you know—well, I think there were three options. One where you can just have it run silently in the background and see later on, “How was I doing?”

carrie

Right. That’s tracking mode.

ross

Yes. And then there’s the second one, where you can have it just sort of every 15 minutes sort of ping you if you’ve been consistently slouched.

carrie

Oh, interesting. Okay. I wasn’t aware of that.

ross

And then it will give you a notification and say, “Hey, hey! Thought you should know—“

carrie

Mmm.

ross

Maybe that’s during tracking. Uh, but—

carrie

Oh, okay.

ross

And then there’s the one where it will just—in real time—buzz at you any time you lean over, essentially.

carrie

And that’s training mode. And I’m in it right now.

ross

Okay.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

Phew! That’s a little—I—I was gonna say, “stressful.” It’s not stressful, but now you have a process running in the back of your mind, where you know, like, “Uh, I better stay upright or I’m gonna get this [makes an electronic buzzer sound].“

carrie

Oh, interesting. I don’t have that experience. One thing that I—it’s both good and bad about it. The good about it is that I just totally forget it. It doesn’t make me, like, “Oh, no. Don’t want to get that buzz.”

ross

Oh, okay.

carrie

I just forget about it. And then I’ll, you know, lean forward. Maybe I’m sitting at my computer and I lean forward to look at it and I stay in that position—

ross

Maybe—

carrie

—and it’ll buzz. And I go, “Oh. Right. Okay,” and sit up.

ross

Okay. Maybe you’re editing a Google doc on your laptop over there.

carrie

[Chuckles] RIght.

ross

And then Ross keeps hearing a buzzing sound.

carrie

[Chuckles] “What is that?”

ross

“What is that?”

carrie

So that’s the good of it. The bad of it is—well, two things for me. One is it’s not that sensitive. I find that—

ross

Hmm.

carrie

—I can—I can be pretty…not sitting upright. Like, right now, I’m like—I’m not hunched over. But, like, my shoulders are rolled forward.

ross

Oh, yeah.

carrie

My belly’s sticking out, etc. And it doesn’t care.

ross

I don’t—I don’t recall any way to, um, kind of set the range of acceptability. So what first happens is, when you first adhere it to your back it wants to calibrate. I don’t think it has any ability to objectively know in the world whether it’s upright or not. Of course, that would be possible.

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

You could do that with, you know, built in a little level. But essentially what you do is you kind of get your own personal estimation of, “This is the posture I want to maintain.” And then you tell it to set that on your phone—

carrie

Mm-hmm. You—you kind of tare there if you will.

ross

Yeah.

carrie

T-A-R-E.

ross

Yeah. Very good. And the—that’s never a word I think to use in conversation, but a very good word for this. So, yes. You tare your posture. And then it just uses that as your baseline. So if you lean too far forward or backward—though I think it really focuses on forward—

carrie

Oh! I haven’t tried leaning backward. Let’s see.

ross

Lean backward. Carrie’s doing the limbo in her chair.

carrie

No. I don’t think anything happens if you lean backward.

ross

That is disproven. You can lean backward as much as you want. [Carrie chuckles briefly.] Okay. You know what? That’s right. Because I remember thinking that was sort of a—not a way to cheat the system. But an easy way to have bad posture without it noticing is if I was doing that sort of butt-forward slouch.

carrie

Ohhh. Right, right.

ross

This is bad posture.

carrie

Yes. So now Ross—[laughs]—Ross can’t do this without acting it out like he’s a bedraggled employee. But, yeah, okay. So Ross’s butt is super forward on—on the chair, and then his back is really far down the support column of the chair.

ross

And it is not good for my back. I can tell you that.

carrie

Some people might call the support column the back. But not me.

ross

So, it doesn’t care about that particular solipsism. But, yeah. If you lean slightly forward—there’s kind of like a timer—you can watch it in real time on your phone or it can run in the background. But you can see—it’s kind of fun—this little diagram showing you as you lean forward. And it gets closer and closer to the red, and then, “Oh, no you’re in the danger zone.”

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

And if you’re there more than three seconds, it will buzz at you. And, uh, when I was using it, I wore it for at least three weeks every day. And they have, like, a certain amount of recommended time, and I would go way past that. I would use it for, like, four hours a day, and—

carrie

Oh. Yeah, I’d just put it on and forget it until I go to sleep.

ross

Oh, wow!

carrie

Am I doing it wrong? Am I too upright?!

ross

Well, like, they’ll ha—[chuckles]—they’ll have sort of recommended days. Like they want to sort of work you into it.

carrie

Okay.

ross

And so they’ll keep extending sort of the number of minutes/hours—

carrie

Oh.

ross

—you’re supposed to be wearing it as they train you.

carrie

Huh.

ross

But, yeah.

carrie

Well!

ross

Usually they would say, “Okay, you’re kind of done for the day. You can take it off.”

carrie

Huh!

ross

And I would say—

carrie

I've just been wearing it. But also it says I’ve only been slouched 2%? I’m telling you, it’s not—I need a stricter disciplinarian in my app.

ross

Yeah. Well, like with anything, I think you just learn over time—not how to game it, but just sort of how to predict what it’s gonna be looking at. So I would be using, like, my standing desk. And I could just got for hours at a time at work wearing this thing and know I wasn’t gonna get dinged at all. But—

carrie

Sure. Though it’s hard to think of using a standing desk as cheating.

ross

Oh, right. But then other times, I would be maybe helping someone move something, or I’d be setting stuff up and plugging things in, and I’d have to be leaning over—

carrie

Right.

ross

You know, to do X. And then I would keep getting buzzed. And I’d be like, “Ugh! Well, this is annoying.” So I’d go in the app and turn the thing off. But up to that point, I’d totally forgotten I was wearing it.

carrie

Mm-hmm. Yeah, mine has mostly buzzed I’d say because I’m, like, picking up Ella, putting my shoes on, etc.

ross

How dare you.

carrie

But I’m fine with it.

ross

Okay.

carrie

When it happens. I’m gonna be like, “Ooh. Little tiny massage.”

ross

Okay. Well, then, can you point to any times at which you feel like it has encouraged you to have better posture?

carrie

So I would say, if I wear it all day, there are probably three to five moments in any given day. I find it’s mostly like, I’m working on my computer pretty intently, and I kind of, like, squinted at something subconsciously. Not because I can’t see it, but because we jus have this built-in mechanisms of, like, “I am focusing!”

ross

Right, right. “This is the hunter instinct.”

carrie

[Chuckling] Oh, right.

ross

“I am—I am narrowing my field of vision and the light that I intake to give me slightly sharper vision.”

carrie

“Now—“ Yeah, “Now that I’m closer to this, uh, this shirt design is totally different. But, so, I’ll do that and then it buzzes. And I’m like, “Oh! Hey!” And I’m always so excited. Like, “Look at that! You did the thing you were supposed to do! Okay!” And then I sit up. And I would say that’s how maybe one out of every…seven buzzes is useful to me in that way and not just a—

ross

Okay.

carrie

—a false positive.

ross

[Carrie makes a few affirming sounds as Ross speaks.] So, I think a good measure is to compare those training sessions vs. the—the tracking sessions. And I think early on when I was first using it, I would kind of follow their recommended times. So I would have like a chunk of time where I was just tracking without really being aware it was there, just to get a baseline. And then I would have it on and buzzing me. And I feel like I did notice a difference, because I was becoming more aware of it and trying to sort of game the system. And this is all very good for people who love gamification. Uh, it gives you little charts afterwards, and you can see a little pie chart of how long you were upright vs. how long you weren’t. I don’t know. I—I think the first time, I was somewhere around 20% of the time I was slouched.

carrie

Mm-hmm. Oh, wow! Okay.

ross

And then I very quickly got it up to the low single digits. You know.

carrie

Right.

ross

So, in that sense, yeah. Yeah. It works.

carrie

Yeah, that’s it!

ross

That’s it!

carrie

We’re all done. So you might be thinking to yourself, “Who invented this glorious contraption?”

ross

I’m thinking that.

carrie

Were you thinking that?

ross

Who invented it?

carrie

I found out. It’s made by Vahid Sahiholnasab and Hussein Sahiholnassab.

ross

Any relation?

carrie

I assume so? But actually, see, the—why not fall down that rabbit hole for no reason. [Ross chuckles.] I found their website. I looked at them. Couldn’t tell if they were related. But one of them said the other was his mentor. And I was like, “Do you really just have the same last name?” ‘Cause you should say, “mentor and brother.”

ross

Huh.

carrie

Anyway. I don’t know. And that’s the most important thing you can take from this, is these—this might be invented by brothers. Maybe not! But they are Canadian medical entrepreneurs. They also made something called the EyeFacer, which are glasses that alert you if you’re getting text neck. It’s like—

ross

Text—text neck. Okay.

carrie

Yeah. So text neck is a real thing and a problem, right? Where, like, you’re hanging—

ross

I’ve never heard that term before.

carrie

Oh, okay.

ross

But, I don’t know if it sounds as good as Text-Mex.

carrie

[Chuckles] See, it’s not nearly as good. Not as much avocado, etc. So, it’s like, you’re keeping your chin at that level that we text at—

ross

Ahh.

carrie

—and it’s unnatural to our spine. And you end up, you know, uh—

ross

Sure.

carrie

—yeah, getting weird pains and stuff. So, this is a pair of glasses with a little sensor in them. You can actually get them in your prescription if you like. And if you’re at that angle, it flashes a little tiny light at you, just to notify you. So then you bring your hand up so that it’s straight in front of you. And you look like a freak when you’re texting, but you’re not hurting your neck.

ross

So this is totally the same concept—

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

—as the Upright GO. Just on your face.

carrie

These two are just obsessed with posture. They love it.

ross

I kind of like my mental image of them now, just kind of walking around with books balanced on their heads.

carrie

[Chuckles] Yeah, maybe they went to finishing school.

ross

[Carrie makes several affirming sounds as Ross speaks.] This reminds me of kind of ergonomic designs just for setting up your desk and, like, not having your monitor at such a way that you’re constantly looking up toward it. You know, that it’s just naturally, comfortably a little lower than you, All these other concerns. And these are good things to think about. Especially if it’s something where your’e going to set it and forget it. It’s worth the time to make sure that your workspace is helping your body in the long run. ‘Cause we weren’t made for this. You know, we were designed by evolution. And if you listen to our interview with Nathan H. Lents, you’ll know we were designed originally as quadrupeds, and only relatively recently in evolutionary time did we start walking upright. And that’s where most of our bodily problems come from.

carrie

And making our bodies last forever past when they were supposed to.

ross

[Chuckling] Right.

carrie

Forever!

ross

Right.

carrie

[Chuckling] I mean, I was supposed to die so long ago.

ross

Yeah. It was supposed to be, you know, like smallpox or something that got us. Uh—

carrie

Yeah. I was supposed to have a kid and then my body was supposed to be like, “Done! You did it! The end! You’re 22! You’re fine!”

ross

Yeah! You’re now invisible to evolution.

carrie

Right.

ross

But, we remain viable longer nowadays. And, yeah, we gotta take—

carrie

Knock on wood.

ross

—we've got to take care of these things.

carrie

So wear a mask when you go outside. Anyway, the headquarters of the Upright GO are in Tel Aviv.

ross

Okay.

carrie

Yeah. Israeli company.

ross

Always a lot of tech—

carrie

Is that true?

ross

—in Tel Aviv. Yeah.

carrie

Okay. I didn’t know it was a tech hub.

ross

Absolutely.

carrie

And yes, they do own the patent for devices that sit on the top of your back and vibrate when you go into an upright position.

ross

Oh!

carrie

It is US patent number 9406211B2.

ross

Alright. Well, there goes our plan making a competing device that didn’t cost $100.

carrie

Yeah. Touché. Can’t do it. Sharks.

ross

On their website, they list the benefits. Just to run through what—

carrie

Ooh, yeah.

ross

—what they kind of claim, uh, this will help you with.

carrie

Yeah. Tell me about them bens.

ross

So the first thing is that you will look and feel better than ever.

carrie

And ever? Hm.

ross

“Changing your whole appearance just by being upright.”

carrie

Alright.

ross

“An upright body makes you look taller and slimmer.”

carrie

‘kay.

ross

Yeah, okay. And, you know, they kind of elaborate on that. So, “Don’t let your stomach hang out,” and all of that. But also, you build confidence naturally by stimulating your biochemistry.

carrie

[Chuckles] Okay. Stimulating my biochemistry.

ross

Yep. Uh—

carrie

Okay, that’s pretty big.

ross

Okay, “An upright posture boosts testosterone production—“

carrie

Oh!

ross

“—and lowers cortisol levels in the body and brain—“

carrie

[Amused] Huh.

ross

“—making you feel ready to take on any challenge.”

carrie

Ineresting.

ross

Interesting.

carrie

Boosts testosterone? That’s—

ross

And lowers cortisol.

carrie

So, yeah. Cortisol’s the stress hormone. Hmm.

ross

Okay, I’ll look this one up.

carrie

Yeah, ‘cause I did look up some studies about posture, but—

ross

Yeah.

carrie

—didn’t run into anything about those two chemicals.

ross

There’s just kind of a general note about how it helps you get noticed and build new relationships. [Carrie chuckles.] Not be overlooked at work. I don’t know. What if you want to lean in?

carrie

Ohhh. Touché!

ross

Oh-ho-ho!

carrie

Okay!

ross

See what Sheryl Sandberg has to say about this. It—it’s also a form of tuning into your body. So it just makes you more aware.

carrie

Okay. That—I would say—is objectively true.

ross

And they're kind of tying it to other benefits of de-stressing and just calmness, etc. “Boost work productivity and success in life.”

carrie

Oh, shit. That’s exactly what I want to do.

ross

“Get—get more done in less time with quality results.”

carrie

[Chuckles] Okay.

ross

We—we have another substance. “You can increase the flow of oxygen to your brain,” it’s saying.

carrie

Ohhh.

ross

Hmm.

carrie

Okay. I guess that’s possible. Because when you’re leaning forward, you can’t—

ross

You're breathing better?

carrie

You can't get as much oxygen into your diaphragm at least.

ross

You know what? That’s—that’s actually—okay, that’s fair. Uh, “Upright posture also helps your lungs to take in more oxygen, giving your body what it needs to naturally relax and feel great.” Okay. That doesn’t seem like an extraordinary claim.

carrie

That seem like one of those things where if you actually measured it, it would probably be a very, very tiny increase, and who knows how it actually affects your greater system.

ross

Yeah.

carrie

But, probably at least technically true.

ross

Yeah, I think you're right on that. Also, “Relieve pressure and strain on your back! Sitting or standing in a slouched position for long periods of time can put undue strain on your back—“

carrie

Sure.

ross

“—especially if you are mostly inactive during the workday. Along with muscle fatigue, slumping can lead to neck pain, breathing limitations, and digestive problems.” So, yeah. Actually, that—that all sounds pretty straightforward. ‘Cause when you’re leaning too far forward, too far backwards, it’s chaining your center of balance, and it’s putting undue stress on your back.”

carrie

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I wonder, too, if—when I sit upright, it takes just this little tiny bit of effort from, like, my core muscles, etc. And I wonder if just that little amount of activity has some effect as well?

ross

Mm.

carrie

Cause it does take some minor effort.

ross

Right.

carrie

Maybe that effort’s good for me. Maybe it’s bad for me.

ross

So it's sounding like your overall experience has been fairly positive.

carrie

I would say it is just a hair above neutral. Like…uh, it doesn’t annoy me. I see what the benefits are. Would I…recommend this to anybody—[chuckles]—who didn’t just say they want to track their posture? Would I just be like, “This is a thing my friends need!”

ross

Right

carrie

Nah. It’s fine.

ross

Yeah.

carrie

It’s fine. It's a solid C+ experience.

ross

[Chuckling] Okay. Yeah. I think I would be kind of, uh, similar in my assessment, where I can’t really point to anything objectively bad about it.

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

If someone gave me one, I'd be, “Oh, cool.”

carrie

Yeah. "Oh, this again.”

ross

Would I—outside of this podcast that we do—would I spend $100 on it? No.

carrie

No.

ross

Not at all.

carrie

Absolutely not.

ross

Is it worth $100? Uh, I doubt it.

carrie

Mayyybe. I guess it depends on how much this is a problem for you.

ross

Yeah I—

carrie

We should say that. Neither of us started out with, like, “This is something I gotta fix!”

ross

Right, right. But, you know, would it be worth $20? Now we’re talking. You know. Something like that. [Carrie makes quiet, affirming sounds in the background.] And I would notice that maybe—yeah, I think you were just kind of hinting at this. Sometimes it takes certain musculature just to sort of keep yourself in a certain pose.

carrie

Right.

ross

And I think sometimes I would sort of have in my mind, like, “Okay. This is the posture I would want to hold. And then I would kind of put some extra muscle effort into doing that. And I would start to get, like, a sore lower back.”

carrie

Yep.

ross

And I think I was holding something that was kind of an unnatural pose. And then—I don’t know, I just mentally had a hard time. Like, “Wait, what is natural? Where should I be? I don’t even know anymore.”

carrie

[Ross makes a few affirming sounds as Carrie speaks.] Agree. And I will say this. On their website, I think, they have a video where they’re like, “Hey, here’s how to set your perfect posture.” And they mention that. They say, “You know, if you kind of immediately get into Superman pose, you’ll think, like, ‘Yeah, my posture’s awesome!’ but you’re actually kind of hurting your back. So you want to—to not feel like much effort. Like, it took effort to get there, but it should take virtually no effort to stay. That’s your sweet spot.”

ross

Okay. Ah. Ah, very good. Okay. Well, I probably could have improved that quite a bit. But yeah, overall, I would say, you know, eh, thumbs up!

carrie

Yeah!

ross

I—I kind of like it. I got really nothing bad to say about it. But always, I think, the true test of something when we try it is, “Do I keep doing it even when we’re done trying it out?”

carrie

Uhh...no way.

ross

[Carrie makes a few affirming sounds as Ross speaks.] And it’s no. You know, it’s an adhesive that you do have to swap out every now and then. The adhesives were pretty good at staying sticky for multiple days. But, yeah, eventually you have to swap them out or clean them. And it—yeah, it’s just an extra process. It’s something else—you know, I’m already doing lots of daily apps and other to-do-list items, and so it just—

carrie

No! More! Apps!

ross

Right. It just becomes part of the noise of things you gotta think about—

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

—in a day. And it’s just inconvenient enough that, you know, I didn’t keep using it after those first three-plus weeks.

carrie

I bet though, if you were a person like a model or an actor or someone who, like, your body is your job—

ross

Mm. Mm-hmm.

carrie

—I could see why this would be useful, especially if you’re taking a million photos and you don’t want to rely on the photographer to be like, “Oh! You’re slouching a little bit.” This would be a useful thing for that.

ross

We've talked in the past about other things like, uh, hypnotherapy that are just good at reminding you of something. And that that is a valuable service.

carrie

Mmm-hmm.

ross

I think it does that. If you would love to have someone there, just kind of reminding you every now and then, like, [makes a pointed coughing sound].

carrie

Yeah [chuckles].

ross

This can be that person for you.

carrie

Oh, you know what? Actually, I know who this would be great for. Maybe we should send it to them if we don’t want this thing. My old boss, Chris—who works at the humane society now and is a wonderful man who has devoted himself to animal rights—

ross

Nice.

carrie

—he always had a reminder set on his calendar that said, “Sit up straight!”

ross

Oh!

carrie

And he'd also have little sticky notes and stuff. ‘Cause he’s very, very tall.

ross

Oh, yeah.

carrie

So, just looking at the computer or looking at his coworkers, etc, he just slowly, through the course of the day, he hunched over.

ross

Devolve. Okay.

carrie

So, mm, yeah. I bet he’d love this!

ross

If he doesn’t already have one.

carrie

Okay, I’ll ask.

ross

Okay.

carrie

And then maybe we’ll send it to him.

ross

Alright, alright.

carrie

He should be so lucky.

ross

The—I—I should say, my son, Andrew, he got really excited by—

carrie

Oh, okay.

ross

—this product category. ‘Cause I think he realized its was something about himself. He plays a lot of video games.

carrie

He uses the computer a lot.

ross

Sure. So he was kind of thinking about, like, “Oh, should I try to get one of these?” And I said, “Well, we’re gonna try it for the podcast. You want to try it to?” So he’s tried both devices. The one I’m wearing right now he’s used extensively.

carrie

Okay,

ross

And he wore the Upright GO for a long time, too. And he liked them. He would use them even more than I did.

carrie

Oh, okay.

ross

‘Cause I think he felt that was worthwhile, having that kind of device saying, “[makes pointed coughing sound]

carrie

[Coughing the first syllables] Ah—ah—ah—ah—Andrew!

ross

[Chuckling briefly] Yeah.

carrie

We will get into the second device in a second. Before we do, if you were selling a device—

ross

Yes?

carrie

—how do you think you would go about it?

ross

Oh, goodness. Okay. So, I’ve got all these devices. They’re siting around me in my apartment, in my home. I need to get them to other people’s homes. Probably what I would do is, I would drive them to each and every—ah, that’s going to be really difficult.

carrie

What were you gonna say?

ross

You know what?

carrie

You would drive them to each home?

ross

Yeah. Just deliver them to the people—

carrie

Oh, wow.

ross

—and say, “Here you go.” And I’d throw it from six feet away. But I’d say, “Here’s your device.”

carrie

I’ll be honest. Our listeners would love that. We would sell so much merch if this were the promise.

ross

Ah, this one is in Missouri. Okay, well—

carrie

Alright.

ross

—guess I better get started. No. You know what? I should probably use something like the mail system.

carrie

Okay. I’m with you. I’m with you so far.

ross

That—that would make it easier for me. [Putting on a stressed, groaning tone] But, ah, man, now I’ve got to, like, box it. I’ve got to, like, fill out labels and—

carrie

Yeah. Sure. But—and then, you also have to figure out, “Okay, I’m sending hundred of these.”

ross

Right.

carrie

“What’s gonna be the cheapest service to use? Is it FedEx? Is it USPS? Is it UPS? Is it Jim’s Sending Service, JSS?”

ross

Right. Oh, my goodness. This has gotten so complicated all of a sudden. You know what? I would need some kind of service that would kind of figure all this out for me.

carrie

Exactly. And you know what that service is?

ross

What is it?

carrie

ShipStation!

ross

Oh, ShipStation! Yeah.

carrie

And I just realized—oh my God, this is so funny, that we’d be talking about this. ShipStation is actually one of the sponsors of this episode.

ross

What?

carrie

Yes! I know!

ross

What? Are you serious?

carrie

I know! Yeah, I’m serious.

ross

Aren’t they the service that brings all of your orders into one simple interface? Whether you’re selling on Amazon or Etsy or your own website?

carrie

Yes, it is. And you know, folks are adapting to this changing world, right? We're all buying stuff online—

ross

Mm-hmm.

carrie

—and there’s all this delivery culture. And ShipStation works with all the major carriers like the ones I mentioned, right?

ross

Mm-hmm.

carrie

USPS, FedEx, UPS. Even Amazon fulfillment.

ross

Oh, that’s amazing.

carrie

And Jerry’s Shipping Service, JSS. So, you can compare and choose the best shipping solution for you and your customer right inside the system.

ross

They even offer big discounts on shipping costs. So now any business can access the same postage discounts that are usually reserved for larger Fortune 500 companies.

carrie

Oh, boy.

ross

You’ll always know that you’re getting the best deal.

carrie

Aw, man. That’s good stuff. And right now, Oh No, Ross and Carrie! listeners can try ShipStation for free for 60 days.

ross

Free?

carrie

Yes. When you use the offer code, “OhNo!”

ross

Oh, then they’ll know that we sent you.

carrie

Exactly. So make sure you business is ready to meet the demands of delivery culture. Get started at ShipStation.com today.

ross

Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage, and type in, “OhNo,” O-H-N-O.

carrie

That’s ShipStation.com and then enter offer code, “OhNo.”

ross

ShipStation.com. Make ship happen.

carrie

But that is not the only thing I wanted to tell you on this, the 23rd of May, 2020.

ross

It looks like you have another delivery for me.

carrie

Yes, I do. [Makes a fanfare sound] Opening this box. It’s a Jumbotron!

ross

A Jumbotron!

carrie

Whoa! And this is a very, very important message from McKensie.

ross

For Eric.

carrie

And the message is, “Lorb!”

ross

“Lorb.” That’s it. That’s the message.

carrie

That's the whole thing.

ross

You—did you get that, Eric? Loud and clear?

crosstalk

Ross: Lorb! Carrie: Lorb!

carrie

Okay, so about posture devices.

ross

[Laughs] So, yeah. We got another one as well. Because it seemed like there was kind of a second class of devices. Now, there’s that exclusive patent of the Upright GO. You know, they’re the ones that are the brand name of adhesive devices that sit on your back or—I guess—on your necklace. But there were also a lot of devices that were essentially just like over-the-shoulder—

carrie

Boulder holders.

ross

Yeah, I was trying not to…end the phrase that way.

carrie

[Laughs] That’s what people say about bras!

ross

Over-the-shoulder posture holders.

carrie

Over—okay! Alright!

ross

Holsters, essentially.

carrie

Which—okay. Okay. Over-the-shoulder posture hostlers.

ross

[Chuckling] Okay. There you go. Like wearing a backpack without the pack.

carrie

The pack.

ross

Or a rucksack without the sack.

carrie

The ruck.

ross

No, you still got the ruck.

carrie

Oh, yeah. Okay.

ross

You’re trying to keep it upright.

carrie

Imagine if you wanted to have all of the threatening look of carrying a gun, without having to carry a gun.

ross

[Laughs briefly] I have friends who wear, like, holsters like these.

carrie

Uh-huh.

ross

Like kind of the shoulder things, but they’ll have a calculator in there—

carrie

Oh.

ross

—or their phone or, you know, some other thing.

carrie

Well, alirght.

ross

And it’s—yeah, there’s always this process of, “Ah—oh, okay. That—huh.”

carrie

Okay. Yeah [giggles].

ross

Cause, you’re just primed to think of that as, like—

carrie

Right, it’s like—

ross

—a gun. Someone’s got a gun.

carrie

—okay. Yeah, okay. “Oh, I’m scared. No, I’m confused. Oh, I see what’s happening. Oh, wait. You wanted me to go through this process. That’s strange.”

ross

[Laughs] And that’s what I’m wearing right now. This device called, “The Posture Corrector for Men and Women.”

carrie

[Chuckling] Aw. Okay. Very straightforward. I appreciate that.

ross

By—by Gearari. Oh, it goes on, actually. The full title on Amazon—I bought this on Amazon—was, “Posture Corrector for Men and Women, Upper Back Brace for Clavicle Support, Adjustable Back Straightener and Providing Pain Relief from Neck, Back & Shoulder, (Universal).”

carrie

Okay. Universal is better. ‘Cause I want to say, if you’re not a man or a woman. If you’re gender-non-binary, this is still gonna work for you.

ross

Still for you. Now originally I tried to buy the Mr. Posture.

carrie

Oh-ho! My, my, my! Mr. Posture! What are you doing here?

ross

Yeah! They had a little more advertising going. It felt like more of a product. It had its own dedicated website. But they wouldn’t take either of two credit cards I tried to give them.

carrie

Oh.

ross

And then I—then I was just getting suspicious and uncomfortable.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

And, oh, my goodness. I got so many e-mails, like, “You didn’t finish your order. How can we help you complete your order?”

carrie

That’s your fault.

ross

Right, so I wrote them back and said, “You know what, I actually will take your survey, and tell you that I tried to buy your Mr. Posture and I couldn’t. That’s on you.” [Carrie chuckles.] Then I would get their personal sales rep. “Well, how can I make it up to you. Let me give you a discount.” “I already ordered the other thing! [Chuckles] Like, leave me alone. I don’t want this.” And I would just get, like, five e-mails a day, lik—

carrie

“Can I speak to Mr. Posture.”

ross

[Laughs] Like, trying to—[breaks off, laughing]—uh, trying to, uh, resolve this pro—anyway. So, don’t go to them. Instead—if you do a search for this on Amazon, oh my goodness. So I just put in the words, “mr” and “posture” on Amazon, and I just got hundreds of results.

carrie

Oh, yep, yep.

ross

So many things selling this exact same format. I think this one cost me, like, $27 I want to say? And so, uh, that’s kind of in the—the higher range of what these devices tend to cost. Still cheaper than the Mr. Posture, though.

carrie

And much cheaper than the Upright GO, too.

ross

But they also had some stated advantages to this. Let’s see here. We've got, “the drawbacks of bad posture,”

carrie

Is—you’re in black and white again. Ughhh, you’re sad. You’re in black and white. You’re slouched forward.

ross

You’ve got soreness and pain. Your arms are experiencing numbness. You’ve got poor digestion, a negative mood, low self-esteem, poor circulation, and fatigue.

carrie

Oh, god. But then you put on your dinghy. Which—actually in this photo—she does not have on.

ross

Right—[laughs]!

carrie

And now you have correct posture! And you’re in color! And you’re happy!

ross

Yeah, you’ve got pain prevention and higher mobility, better breathing, positive feelings, higher self-esteem, good circulation., energy efficiency, improved concentration, and looking good.

carrie

Oh, alright, alright.

ross

Alright, yeah. They show people using this device, happily riding a bike, going to school. I like this guy’s going to school and people are like, “Uh, your backpack is tiny. Can’t even see it.”

carrie

[Chuckles] This is very good, because one of the photos is a stock photo of a man leaning against his car and it says, “driving,” at the top. But A, he’s not driving and B, he’s clearly a stock photo of someone wearing a backpack that we just can’t see the back of.

ross

[Chuckles] I think you’re right. And then somebody running with this. They recommend you measure your chest circumference beforehand. They’ve got some product reviews. It’ll take 14 days of evolution to kind of adjust and get to your best posture. Which is interesting. Upright GO said exactly the same thing.

carrie

Oh, okay.

ross

Like, it’s a 14-day period to really get to good posture. It’s not gonna happen overnight.

carrie

Come on!

ross

Let’s be realistic here. And—this is a big claim. [Carrie chuckles.] Invisible under clothing.

carrie

Um…no.

ross

“You can wear our posture corrector all day long, even under clothing. No one will notice.”

carrie

Incorrect.

ross

Okay. Yes. So, we’ve tried this.

carrie

Yeah, it is a—how thick would you say that is? Like a good two centimeters thick?

ross

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

[Carrie makes a few affirming sounds as Ross speaks.] Yeah, the band is pretty wide. And in even—in, like, the thickness of how fat it is—it’s squishy, and it feels a bit like wearing a backpack. You know, like the—the straps on a backpack. And yeah, it’s padded a bit. And essentially you run the loops around over your shoulders and then back under your armpits and then through these loops and then you tighten it, essentially as tight as you can, until it’s uncomfortable. And it’s a very different method of kind of restricting your motion or reminding you of your posture. ‘Cause essentially, if I kind of slouch my shoulders forward, this will provide some resistance. And I’ll feel that motion. And that reminds me, “Oh! I’m wearing this posture thing. I’d better get my shoulders back.”

carrie

It reminds me of those back braces people use to, like, pick up stuff.

ross

Oh, yes. Uh, that usually kind of terminate in some sort of cummerbund. Sort of—

carrie

Yeah, go around your torso.

ross

Around—yeah. But, yeah. You tighten this thing up and then it’s got a long strap of velcro so it can sort of attach to itself. So it forms this sort of butterfly loop that’s going around your armpits. Yeah. I tried wearing it under the clothes one day. It was really uncomfortable.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

And I remember someone—I think it was their last day. And they came by at work to, like, say goodbye to me, and I went to give them a hug, and it was like—it was super uncomfortable.

carrie

Oh, yeah.

ross

And I felt really uncomfortable with this thing restricting my motion underneath my shirt, and I was like, “I don’t like this.”

carrie

“And they—and they don’t have a visual cue for what’s happening, so now I’m just a weirdo.”

ross

[Chuckles] Yeah, and they're like, “What is this under his, uh—ah, it’s the last day. I’m not going to ask.”

carrie

[Chuckles] It makes me think of that I Love Lucy episode where she hides all the eggs under her, uh, muumuu.

ross

[Laughing] I don’t—

carrie

But not quite that extreme.

ross

I don’t remember that, but it sounds like her.

carrie

It’s a good episode, but they all are. So the main drawback of this—I think—is how it looks. So you really do look like you’re packing heat.

ross

Yeah! And I will be—‘cause I’ve taken it out running, to try it for the podcast. But I feel self-conscious—

carrie

Yeah.

ross

—being out there with, like, “Who am I gonna run past, and they’re gonna have to look at me and think, like, “[Gasps] What has he got?”

carrie

Right!

ross

Can you imagine if I was wearing this plus that mask that we had before?

carrie

That’s—or the masks we’re all wearing right now.

ross

Right, but remember when we were wearing the elevation training masks—

carrie

Yeah, sure.

ross

—which already made you look like Bane. Plus, like, this thing that at first blush looks like a gun holster as a—

carrie

Yeah.

ross

Yeah, a little nerve-racking.

carrie

[Sighs] I think one of the reasons I feel moderately okay wearing this is that I’m white.

ross

Mm.

carrie

Like, there are so many signals that you don’t want to send if you’re a person of color. One being carrying any sort of weaponry.

ross

Ugh.

carrie

So I feel like this is already a device that’s, like, very limited to a particular audience. Yeah.

ross

Yeah, but that's all just a side consideration. But, you know—

carrie

But it ends up being a big deal. ‘Cause I did—I felt all the time like, “Oh, I look like I’m carrying a gun.” [Ross laughs.] And as a person who is afraid—very afraid of guns, like, I don’t want to make anybody else look at me and think that.

ross

So around the house, no big deal.

carrie

Yep. True.

ross

But you—you have to at least be conscious of it. And, yeah, I wouldn’t want to wear it to work, because people would have those reactions. And now, so, like, “Which…what’s this one Ross? What are you doing this time?”

carrie

Right [chuckles].

ross

I mean, at least they’re used to weird behavior from me.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

And also because you’re tightening it kind of as tight as it goes, it runs right up under the armpits. And I’m even feeling it right now. Like—

carrie

Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

ross

—I feel like I’m a little sweatier than I normally would be. It’s sort of accelerating that process of my armpits sweating.

carrie

And also there’s that, like—not quite a pinch. It's the sort of thing you wouldn’t notice for the first two hours, but after five or six hours, you’re like—

ross

Mm.

carrie

—“Ah, it’s just like a very bare chafing kind of stuff.”

ross

But it’s interesting, though, because in a few different ways it’s doing the same thing as the Upright GO, but in a very different way.

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

Cause, like, for this one, it doesn’t really restrict you if you’re just leaning forward—

carrie

Mm.

ross

—but if your shoulders are going forward.

carrie

Which is more my problem.

ross

Okay, So this one at least, like, you feel that resistance—

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

—if you try to lean your shoulders forward and then you bring them back a bit.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

I guess if anything, it would kind of inspire me to keep my arms out a little more.

carrie

Oh, okay.

ross

Which might be a good thing. That might help with circulation.

carrie

Sure. You got that old, uh, superman pose.

ross

Right, right. Just to air out my armpits a bit. [Carrie chuckles.] ‘Cause I’m wearing this—but I will say, my son—again—Andrew’s worn this at least five times more than either of us have.

carrie

Wow, okay!

ross

Yeah, as soon as I was—I felt like I had tried it enough, he just sort of inherited it and—

carrie

Okay.

ross

—he had it when we went to record. I said, “Hey, Andrew, can I borrow that—“ [Carrie laughs loudly, briefly.] “—back. Uh, I want to use this.” But he’ll use it when he’s playing video games and stuff, ‘cause—

carrie

Oh, that’s nice!

ross

Yeah.

carrie

Okay.

ross

I think he feels it’s helpful.

carrie

Well, I liked that one more. As far as the physical experience of using it, I found that much more usable, more useful to me as a person who has slumped over shoulder more than slumped back, I guess.

ross

Mm.

carrie

I liked it a lot more. But, yeah. The look of it is such a drawback. I think at least make it a bright color? Then maybe that would—a little more like a vest or something instead of—

ross

Ineresting, yeah.

carrie

—a holster?

ross

That’s something, ‘cause, you know, both of us wear backpacks.

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

And we’ll do it when we’re walking towards someone, and they can’t see the backpack behind us, but—

carrie

Sure.

ross

—for whatever reason, it doesn’t have that same feeling to it.

carrie

Yeah. And—and I think that’s color. ‘Cause let’s see. My laptop backpack is red and my everyday backpack is orange. So, yeah.

ross

Oh, including the straps?

carrie

Uh-huh.

ross

Interesting.

carrie

Yeah, the orange one’s next to you right now.

ross

I have a black backpack, so I—

carrie

Okay.

ross

—I’m just doing the exact same thing.

carrie

Oh, that’s interesting. Yeah. Okay, yeah. I mean, I guess you look more or less like someone with a backpack. Then, of course, if you’re running or something, it’s like, “Person running with a backpack?”

ross

Mm. That could be the missing piece.

carrie

Yeah. So…I have a feeling neither of these are going to take places in our homes and hearts.

ross

[Chuckles] Right. We’ve had these for many months, and kind of after I’d used them each for a few weeks, I’d just sort of toss them aside. And I still have kind of this baseline posture that could be better.

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

I like the idea of these? But in execution, I don’t think they rise to the level of importance that I’ve made them a daily routine.

carrie

Yeah, that’s always the real question. You know, you go to a blog and you see someone’s review of a device. Often it will be glowing, maybe even completely honest. But if you go back and ask them a year and a half later, “Hey, how are those colored lenses going?”

ross

Yeah, right [laughs].

carrie

That’s the real question.

ross

That’s funny. That makes me think, like, “I don’t know. You should make that Upright GO device glow.” ‘Cause then I challenge someone to right a review that doesn’t include, “glowing.”

carrie

Clap, clap, clap, clap, clap.

ross

That’s a—there’s an Emo Phillips joke where he sets up this whole thing about how, uh, he wants to have a show where he does nothing but just drive steel bolts into sheet metal. And he challenges anyone to write a review that does not include the word, “riveting.” [Ross and Carrie laugh.]

carrie

Ridiculous.

ross

I love it.

carrie

Um, so, Ross. You might be wondering, “But is it true that better posture is gonna do all these things for me? Is it going to give me more self esteem? Is it going to make me better at math? Is it going to put me in a better mood?” ‘Cause these are things you hear.

ross

Oh, well I want to know. ‘Cause that will be the difference between me taking this off and me keeping it on.

carrie

Forever?

ross

Yes.

carrie

Wow! Okay! Here it comes, for all the sauce!

ross

Yep. If the science is there, I listen to the science.

carrie

I’ve never heard the phrase, “For all the sauce,” but I…just invented it, and I like it.

ross

I didn’t, uh, question it. You know. “A stitch in time saves nine.”

carrie

Oh, that’s interesting. I never thought about that.

ross

There’s more where that came from I can just make them up.

carrie

So, okay. There was an Ohio State University study. It was released in October 5th 2009.

ross

Mm-kay.

carrie

It seemed to indicate that upright posture does increase your own confidence in your own thoughts. So this is what they did.

ross

Hmm.

carrie

They had some people slouch and some people sit up. They told them a cover story so they would hopefully not understand what the study was really about.

ross

Focusing on some other factor.

carrie

Yep.

ross

Okay, good.

carrie

And then they had them write down good and bad traits about themselves as if they were applying for a job.

ross

Ah.

carrie

So, “What are—what makes you best suited for this and what makes you, uh, maybe a little weaker of a candidate?”

ross

Okay. I like it.

carrie

Now, what was interesting, though, is afterward, you might expect that the people with better posture were like, “Yeah, I am good for that job.” But, no, no. The people with better posture believed what they wrote more, positive and negative. So it gave them more confidence in their own thoughts—

ross

Ohhh.

carrie

—but the content of those thoughts was a pretty independent variable.

ross

Interesting. Okay, so it increased your level of certainty, but not necessarily your positivity.

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

Okay.

carrie

Which—that—I thought that was really intersting.

ross

Yeah. Okay. So it—if you don’t want to waffle back and forth, remain upright.

carrie

Yeah. [Chuckles] Right!

ross

Okay.

carrie

So, if you’re in a debate, perhaps, where it’s like, “Listen, it doesn’t so much matter if what I’m saying is true, it’s that I win!” [Ross chuckles.] Then you want one of these posture devices on.

ross

[Carrie makes a couple of affirming sounds as Ross speaks.] That’s so funny, ‘cause we use upright as an adjective to describe someone who follow the rules, is dependable, you know, good citizen.

carrie

Morally sound.

ross

Right.

carrie

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah! Yeah!

ross

Upright. And we use, “right” as well, yeah, vs left, you know.

carrie

Oh, true. [Whispers] Oh, yeah.

ross

If you're left-handed, you’re sinister, you’re gauche.

carrie

And those are all true things.

ross

Correct.

carrie

Mm-hmm. Left-handed people are evil. Mm, just kidding. Please don’t write to me, left-handed people. Okay. Then—

ross

But if you do, do it with your right hand.

carrie

[Laughs] Prove it! Prove you’re left-handed! Okay. And—by the way—that study was published in the European Journal of Social Psychology. I should say, I just read the abstracts of each of these, so I have not checked the methodology, etc., etc. They could be shit. I don’t know. [Ross makes a few affirming sounds as Carrie continues.] Okay. So, June 29, 2018, San Francisco University released a study in the journal Neuroregulation. And it did suggest that good posture improves math reasoning ability. So, yeah. People whose posture had been corrected seemed to do better at these, like, logic and math problems they were presented with. I couldn’t tell from what I was reading whether it was controlled in any meaningful way. But they did conclude, “Yeah, it seems to make you better at math.”

ross

Now, uh, just playing with that idea—not necessarily saying I’m buying into that. You know, if we also buy—let’s say—better oxygen circulation as a result of better posture, you know, maybe that’s it, too. You know, if you’re breathing better, maybe you're doing better at math.

carrie

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All these things go into the soup, and then it’s pretty hard to extract one—

ross

Right.

carrie

—one part of it.

ross

Just feels like, “Oh, okay. Maybe hat’s not the causality there.” But, okay, interesting.

carrie

Yep. Or if confidence is important in math. Who knows?

ross

[Carrie makes a couple of affirming sounds as Ross speaks.] But this obviously ties in very much with the idea of power poses. And, you know, people with their arms akimbo can be more commanding in a meeting and more self-confident.

carrie

Or there’s that thing people say where you should—like, before a meeting or whatever, you bring your hands out like a lion and go, “Ahhhh!” Supposedly that makes you more confident. [Ross laughs.] A couple times I’ve done it and I feel so stupid.

ross

Did you do it before your recent interviews?

carrie

[Chuckling] I didn’t. I should have.

ross

Where you were very assertive and collected.

carrie

Oh, thank you. Thank you.

ross

Were you beforehand, um, “Ahhhrr!”

carrie

No, I was not. Hi, Kimberly!

ross

Aw. [Laughing heavily] That seems too bad, ‘cause, “Ahhhgh!” I like that mental image.

carrie

Okay. And then in June 2015, in the journal Health Psychology, there was a study with 74 participants and they had put physiso tape on some of them to make them upright—

ross

I was gonna say earlier, when we were talking about this over-the-shoulder posture holder, how it will sort of give that little tugging feeling as your shoulder is going the wrong way. I was thinking, “Oh, that could be done with tape as well.” So—

carrie

Mm-hmm. And they do.

ross

Okay!

carrie

Yeah, I think they use it mostly in, like, sports medicine.

ross

Yeah. Where essentially you can get someone to sort of keep their elbow or their shoulder in the right position, just by putting this tape on that will make it just that much harder to kind of move it out of position.

carrie

Right.

ross

I’ve used it before. Like, in physical therapy. And, yeah. It worked.

carrie

Makes sense. Same idea as a cast, just much gentler.

ross

Not to be confused with—there are some pseudoscience tapes out there—

carrie

Yes.

ross

—that people will use in sports applications.

carrie

Okay. So some people had the physio tape on that made them sit upright. Others were slouched. They did tell them a cover story to make them think the study was about something else—

ross

Good.

carrie

—and then put them through stressful tests. And, um—

ross

No the scientology stress tests.

carrie

Correct. Well, maybe that was part of it.

ross

Okay.

carrie

That is stressful. And then afterward, the people who had been upright were in a better mood. They were less scared. They were more alert. And they had higher reported self esteem From what I could tell, this seems like it had just been single-blinded. But, anyway. You know, some suggestive results.

ross

Nice.

carrie

I should also mention—just in looking at all this data—I found something called the American Posture Institute. Just the funniest little outfit. It’s basically these two doctors. I’m just going to trust that they really are doctors.

ross

Okay.

carrie

Though they go by, “doctor firstname,” in both cases—

ross

Oh, alright [makes some noncommittal sounds].

carrie

—which I always find a little weird. But they talk about their credentials in that dumb combining way, where they say, “[In a lower, declamatory voice] Between the two of us, there are five PhDs, eight Master’s degrees, twenty courses from Harvard extension, threee certifications from the such-and-such institute.” It’s just so silly.

ross

Wow, okay.

carrie

So, anyway, that’s neither here nor there. But I became a big fan of the American Posture Institute and their very silly marketing.

ross

That—wow, okay. I tried looking up to see if there were, like, any PubMed articles talking about cortisol and testosterone levels in relation your posture.

carrie

Mm.

ross

I think maybe they’ve been looking at this one, that was looking at the effect of yoga poses, such as the cobra posture.

carrie

Cobra posture, you’re leaning way back. But, okay.

ross

Yeah. Okay, so they were looking at blood serum of healthy subjects who adopted the cobra posture.

carrie

And how is my serum when I do the cobra posture?

ross

Your cortisol is decreased by 11%.

carrie

[Surprised] Wow, okay.

ross

And testosterone is increased by 16%.

carrie

I wonder how that compares to just other forms of exercise.

ross

Yeah.

carrie

But, uh, good to know.

ross

That’s the only one I found that mentioned those particular chemicals. There were a few other studies about, like, standing vs. sitting work station. They were saying that cognitive performance and workload were unaffected after 23 weeks of use. However, accuracy appeared to improve, and physiological stress appeared to be altered.

carrie

After use of what? A standing desk?

ross

Yeah, I believe so.

carrie

Okay.

ross

So, there were a few other tests looking at some things. But I’m not seeing exactly where Upright GO got that cortisol, testosterone claim, so—

carrie

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Interesting.

ross

[Carrie makes a few affirming sounds as Ross speaks.] —take that one with a grain of salt. But generally, having good posture is a good idea. And your body does a pretty good job of telling you when you’re uncomfortable. So just be tuned into your body. And overall, you know, just be mindful. I think it’s a good thing to think about.

carrie

And these are also things that are sort of on the upper end of being a lucky and healthy individual. If you naturally have a slouch, I don’t think this is something you need to kill yourself over to fix.

ross

And, you know, when we’re talking about studies, even when there are perceived advantages, they’re probably subtle.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

This is just kind of a you-taking-care-of-you thing.

carrie

Yeah. But if this is something you care about, this is one way you can monitor it.

ross

And, you know, overall, giving them a thumbs-up.

carrie

Yeah, sure.

ross

But just for me, I didn’t feel like there was enough of an advantage for me to just make them part of my daily routine.

carrie

Instead of a thumbs up, I’d give them one of these.

ross

Uh, Carrie is extending her hand. Actually, I kind of associate that post with, like, the—

carrie

Spiderman?

ross

Yeah, I was thinking a comic book cover where someone is generating—yeah, you might be shooting webs.

carrie

That’s interesting. Yeah, like, well, so I think it’s all in the face. When you have the same hand with this, where my nose is all scrunched up, it means like, “Meh. It’s fine.” But keep the same hand and go—

ross

There you go [laughs].

carrie

—which is a very intense stare.

ross

Yeah, Carrie’s fingers are splayed. Each one is pointing in a very different direction.

carrie

Yeah, that’s interesting. This hand can mean either, “Meh,” or intense power.

ross

Or, “I—“ or, “I’m magic!”

carrie

[Laughs] And I mean, “Meh.”

ross

“Meh.”

carrie

It’s fine.

ross

Okay, more, “meh,” than magic.

carrie

Yeah. Well, what would you give this on a danger rating? Ten is something that’s very dangerous. Like getting COVID-19— [Ross groans.] —and then training a big cat to be in your magic act—

ross

Oh, no. Aww.

carrie

—but not being so good at interacting with the cat.

ross

Aw, poor Rory.

carrie

And doing both those at the same time.

ross

Okay.

carrie

That’s a ten.

ross

That’s a ten.

carrie

And then one is something that’s not that dangerous. Like, spilling some flour on your nice apron when you’re making cookies.

ross

Yeah, I would say a one. I would say they’re helpful if anything. You might find yourself—like me—sort of stressing the wrong muscles—

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

—uh, to maintain something that isn’t quite the right posture and getting a little wigged out in your own mind, but that’s something you can work through. How about you?

carrie

One.

ross

Alright.

carrie

It’s not dangerous.

ross

Well—well—

carrie

Maybe, I mean, it’s zero if you want. Whatever you want, listener.

ross

Look. Our scale is one to ten.

carrie

One.

ross

[Chuckling] Okay. I know it’s confusing. What would you then give this on a pocket-drainer scale? Where one is something not very pocket-draining. Like, uh, your dog buys you a— [Carrie chuckles.] —a Mother’s Day gift. And it’s food for her.

carrie

Why, that just happened today!

ross

But you were probably gonna get her a snack anyway.

carrie

That's true. And your fiancé made the purchase.

ross

And ten is, you decide for Mother’s Day to take your mother in a helicopter and fly across whatever country you live in.

carrie

Goodness. What am I? The Bachelor?

ross

Right. So that’s a ten.

carrie

Okay. I do think it’s expensive—I mean, hard to compare to a helicopter ride. But sort of ignoring the scale— [Ross chuckles.] —I think it’s pretty expensive for what you’re getting.

ross

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

carrie

No offense, uh, to my two friends who invented this. I think a six. That’s if I’m talking about the Upright GO. The other thing, two.

ross

Oh, okay. Fair. Yeah, I feel like both of these are kind of devices where the person has thought, “Ah! I found something that’s kind of helpful. And I’m gonna add a markup to that.”

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

Yeah, I think maybe both of these were a bit overpriced for what they were.

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

I would say the Upright GO even more so. So, yeah. I’m with you. I’ll say, yeah, somewhere in the six or seven range for the Upright GO. And what did you say for—

carrie

A two.

ross

Uh, three or four, I’ll say. For the whole [inaudible].

carrie

Okay. So, we’re averaging out around four.

ross

Yeah.

carrie

Alright. What about on a pseudoscience rating, where one is something that’s not pseudoscientific at all. So that would be something that’s very scientific.

ross

Mm-kay.

carrie

Are you following me?

ross

Yeah. Something, like—well, this is probably going to be the gold standard of scientific evidence.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

So, something well-supported by mountains of evidence convergent from multiple fields of study.

carrie

Exactly. So, like, the climate has been changing for generations—

ross

Well, yes.

carrie

—but is accelerating in particular at this moment and humans had something to do with that.

ross

Oh, yes. That is correct.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

Okay.

carrie

That’s a one. And then ten is something that’s extremely pseudoscientific.

ross

Mmm.

carrie

Like the current coronavirus outbreak is actually a 5G attack.

ross

Mm-hmm. That was simultaneously leaked from a lab in China.

carrie

Mm-hmm. Correct. That’s a ten.

ross

Okay. Yeah, I don’t—I don’t feel like there’s really much in the way of extraordinary claims here. Like, you know, you could haggle over transmitters or hormones in the body. I’ll say maybe two at most.

carrie

Yeah, I was gonna say two or three. This is, again—and we say this so many times—if anything, this is an issue of overselling.

ross

Right. Yeah. You’re trying to make a lot of hay out of something that’s a very subtle improvement. But, you know, if it’s right for you, it’s right for you.

carrie

Right.

ross

What would you give this on a creepiness scale, where one is something not creepy. That plant, over there. That’s not creepy at all.

carrie

Oh, my pothos? Yeah.

ross

It's very—

carrie

It’s beautiful.

ross

What is it called?

carrie

Pothos.

ross

I know I’ve seen those before.

carrie

Yeah, they’re known for being very easy to care for.

ross

Broad leaves.

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

Friendly-looking plant. Whereas ten would be—oh, my goodness. I just started reading this book that was recommended on Reading Glasses. It’s called, “Hex.” It’s about this town where they have this witch.

carrie

Uh-huh. I think I heard about this on Reading Glasses, too. But go on.

ross

Okay. Yeah. And, you know, I won’t—I won’t share too many details, ‘cause then it gets even creepier. But essentially, you move into this town. They try to discourage you from doing it. But then all of the sudden now, you have this witch who will just show up in random places. So at any time of the day, maybe she shows up in your bedroom.

carrie

Oh.

ross

Maybe she shows up in the living room. And she just stands there. You can’t get rid of her.

carrie

[Chuckling] Oh, my god.

ross

You can’t do anything about—

carrie

That’s very creepy.

ross

Uh, yeah. And she’s got—you know, like, her eyes and her mouth are sewn shut, and if you hear her too much, you’ll want to kill yourself. And—

carrie

Oh, my God. Okay, is this a paper book that you have a copy of?

ross

Kindle book.

carrie

Aw, shoot. Okay.

ross

Or I'd totally lend it to you. It’s—anyways, that’s a ten.

carrie

Phew! Boy, it is.

ross

I—I just—I thought it was a brilliant conceit.

carrie

Yeah. Well, I will tell you my answer to that question. But this also reminds me that everyone should go to bookshop.org/shop/ohno to see our, uh, suggested reading list!

ross

Yayyy!

carrie

We finally have one!

ross

Yayy!

carrie

And if you use that link to buy the books we recommended, you both support independent bookstores and support this show, ‘cause we get a little cut for curating the list for you.

ross

Both those things are good.

carrie

Good!

ross

It’s a work in progress. We’ll keep adding more books. But it’s got a lot of our favorites and things related to our investigations and things we bring up often on the show. So, check it out.

carrie

Yeah, check it out. Check, check, check, check, check, check. Okay, anyway. Um—

ross

[Chuckles] Now that we have a scale.

carrie

Uh, creepy. Okay, so the only thing that keeps coming to mind that’s sort of in that realm for me is just how much we are bio-hacking ourselves at this point.

ross

Oh, yeah!

carrie

That, like, God, our lives are so good. At least people like you and I who, like, are relatively healthy, have jobs, etc, that we can obsess about the tiniest little details.

ross

[Putting on a deep voice and upper-class accent] Is my posture right?

carrie

Is my posture okay?

ross

[Continuing in the voice] Am I 2% too forward—yeah—

carrie

[Enunciating] I will add something to the top of my back that vibrates that tells me and then I will simply sit up.

ross

[Same voice] I have $100 to—for that cause.

carrie

We’re too good—yeah, exactly. And I can imagine, like, my grandmother looking forward in time and seeing me, like, looking at an app and being like, “[In a panicked tone] Ah, ugh! Slouch! Ugh! Okay, uh, now I have to correct that! Oh, uh, I’m learning this! Oh, boy, I—I’m doing 1% worse than my mental gains. Ahh!” [Ross laughs.] [Regular tone] I could see her being, like, “This is creepy and sad.”

ross

Is this why I’m putting myself through college, so you can do this [inaudible].

carrie

[Chuckling] Right. So.

ross

Okay.

carrie

With that in mind, I’ll give it a two.

ross

I like that. Okay.

carrie

Still not that creepy.

ross

Well, and we also talked about the holster appearance of—

carrie

Oh, true. The holster is much more. That’s like a five.

ross

I like your argument. You talked me up to a three.

carrie

Alright! Oh, I talked you past my own number [laughs].

ross

Yeah. It was the slingshot effect. I like it. I like your description there.

carrie

What about hot drinks?

ross

Uh, no hot drinks came with my order.

carrie

[Chuckling] Mm-hmm. They should have.

ross

[Chuckles] And, uh, I don’t think I enjoyed them any more sitting upright than I would have otherwise.

carrie

I guess if you were really slenched over you could choke.

ross

[Giggles] Sure.

carrie

So, hey.

ross

You know, thumb sideways.

carrie

[Chuckles] Yeah, neutral thumb.

ross

Well, thanks for joining us on this investigation. And, you know what? Maybe some of you out there are thinking, “I do want this in my life.”

carrie

And you know what? We’re not gonna stop you.

ross

Yeah, that’s awesome.

carrie

That’s fine. That’s exactly what this device is. Fine.

ross

[Laughs] Right.

carrie

It's fine!

ross

I'm sure now that you’ve listened to this episode, you’ll get hit with tons of ads for it. They’ll come right back.

carrie

[Laughs] Yeah, I guess you’re right.

ross

Or, just like the keywords in our episode.

carrie

Mm-hmm. Yeah, you’re right.

ross

We hear—we hear that from people all the time. Like, “Why am I getting all these Rythmia ads all of the sudden?”

carrie

And that does not mean that your speaker is listening to you. That means that you are giving data you don’t know you’re giving through your internet activity.

ross

But thank you for listening to our show.

carrie

Yes

ross

And arming that pump

carrie

Exactly. Thank you for making this possible. Our theme music is by Brian Keith Dalton.

ross

Our editor is Victor Figueroa.

carrie

Our administrative manager is Ian Kremer.

ross

You can find us on social media, facebook.com/onrac. O-N-R-A-C.

carrie

Or on Twitter, at twitter.com/ohnopodcast.

ross

It’s a good place to interact with us. Interact with other listeners to the show. Get, uh, ancillary articles and links and images.

carrie

Find out when I randomly throw things on my Etsy store for a few hours at a time.

ross

Sometimes she does.

carrie

Sometimes I do it. Sometimes I don’t.

ross

You can also support us at MaximumFun.org/join or /donate.

carrie

And you could also leave us a positive review. Do it on iTunes, for example, also known as Apple Podcasts. Or write it on your NextDoor app, and just tell your neighbvors.

ross

[Giggles quietly] It’s a little thing for you, hopefully. But it’s a big thing for us.

carrie

That’s right.

ross

It helps people find us. Helps us look well-liked by people.

carrie

[Giggles] Yeah, it’s really a popularity contest out there.

ross

Well, you know, like, we cover a lot of topics.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

And, um, sometimes people just see that we came down not-their-way on one topic—

carrie

That’s true.

ross

—and they give us a negative review just for that.

carrie

Yep, yep. That’s true. That’s true.

ross

So it would be nice for those of you who do enjoy our show to be heard.

carrie

And who have a bird’s-eye view of the whole project.

ross

Yeah.

carrie

Not this little, tiny sliver.

ross

Think of the birds.

carrie

Think of the birds. I’m Ross Blocher. And remember:

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Pat James DeMentri (Morning Q Live episode February 14, 2018): We think about, “Okay. I want to get in my steps during the day. How many of us actually think about the pressure that we’re putting on our abdomen. Or the strain that we’re putting on our spine throughout the day. Well, now you don’t have to. Because there’s an invention that’s going to do that for us. This is the Upright GO connected posture trainer. And this is something that I was super excited to be able to launch in Morning Q Live, with my friend Brooke this morning. Good morning! Brooke: Hello! Good morning! Happy Valentine’s Day! Pat: Hi! Happy Valentine’s Day. And you know what? What a great gift to be able to give to somebody. At any time of the year, to be able to give them something that can track their own health. Brooke: Mm-hmm. Pat: Now, we know Brooke Mills as one our friends who is an expert in personal care. But this is a company—this is their second item that they’ve brought to us here at QVC, and this is one that already has a popular following. Brooke: They’re really—it—I’m so excited to bring this to you— Pat: I know [claps]! Brooke: —because it’s a tiny wearable device that’s actually going to train you to a better posture, because it vibrates every time you slouch. And it’s so simple to use, because so many of us, we are at our computers. We’re hunched over. Right? Or we are leaning over, looking at our phones, and some people may call it, “tech neck.” And it—you don’t have great posture when you do that. And it’s actually proven that bad posture may cause some discomfort in your lower back. Um, for me, I get the discomfort right by my shoulder blades. Pat: Same. Brooke: And I used to think it was my chair or where my monitor was lined up, when really it was just poor posture. And this is so simple to use. And I love how small it is. Pat: I’ve been wearing it— Brooke: Yeah! Pat: —throughout the show this morning. And, let me tell you. You know when you put your phone on vibrate? It’s half of that intensity—

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Brooke: Mm-hmm. Pat: —when it gives you a little buzz, um, to let you know that you’re slouching a little bit. So when I do this, I feel a little buzz right on the base of my neck, like, a little bit lower, right on my spine. And it’s just a little gentle reminder— Brooke: That’s right. Pat: —kind of like your mom tapping you on the back going, “Hey, hey—“ Brooke: Exactly! Love that. Pat: “—that’s enough now.”

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“Oh No, Ross and Carrie! Theme Song” by Brian Keith Dalton fades in quickly and plays through to the end.

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Music: Shouted vocals, “Hey!” kick off an upbeat rock instrumental featuring electric guitar and drums. The music quickly fades and continues to play below Jesse as he speaks. Jesse Thorn: Hey, MaxFunsters, it’s Jesse Thorn. This week on my public radio interview show, Bullseye, I’m talking with Tina Fey and Robert Carlock about creating Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, 30 Rock, and also just kind of why they’re the best at everything. Tina Fey: There was a window of time when we would just go to awards things and pick up our prizes and party with the people from Mad Men. Jesse Thorn: You can find Bullseye at MaximumFun.org or wherever you listen to podcasts. Just search for, “Bullseye with Jesse Thorn.” Music: The song finishes with a guitar and drum flourish, followed by scattered cheers.

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Speaker 1: I listen to Reading Glasses because Brea and Mallory have great tips. Speaker 2: My suggestion for book festivals is just go for one day. Speaker 3: I listen for the author interviews. Speaker 4: I was a huge Goosebumps fan. Brea/Mallory: Yes! Speaker 4: R.L. Stein was totally my jam!  Speaker 5: I don’t even read. I just like their chemistry together. [Clip from an episode plays] Mallory: Literally if on the back it said like, “this book made me shit my pants,” I’d be like, “That’s—I’m buying this book.” Brea: Yeah. Mallory: Like, I think the problem with blurbs a lot of times—

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Brea: I like that we both want to crap ourselves over books. [Clip ends] Brea: I’m Brea Grant. Mallory: And I’m Mallory O’Meara. Brea: We’re Reading Glasses and we solve all your bookish problems every Thursday on Maximum Fun.

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A cheerful guitar chord.

speaker 1

MaximumFun.org

speaker 2

Comedy and Culture.

speaker 3

Artist owned—

speaker 4

—Audience supported.

About the show

Welcome to Oh No, Ross and Carrie!, the show where we don’t just report on fringe science, spirituality, and claims of the paranormal, but take part ourselves. Follow us as we join religions, undergo alternative treatments, seek out the paranormal, and always find the humor in life’s biggest mysteries. We show up – so you don’t have to. Every week we share a new investigation, interview, or update.

Follow @ohnopodcast on Twitter and join the Facebook group!

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