TRANSCRIPT Oh No, Ross and Carrie!: Ross and Carrie Cure Covid…. Symptoms (Part 2): Corpse Reviver Edition

Ross and Carrie return for day two of the online class for treating COVID-19 (symptoms) with homeopathy. They learn that germ theory has been debunked, a guru’s dream foretold the real cure, and two natural remedies for the phenomenon known as “death.”

Podcast: Oh No, Ross and Carrie!

Episode number: 244

Transcript

music

“Oh No, Ross and Carrie! Theme Song” by Brian Keith Dalton. A jaunty, upbeat instrumental.

carrie poppy

Hello! Welcome to Oh No, Ross and Carrie!, the show where we don’t just report on fringe science, spirituality, and claims of the paranormal, but take part ourselves.

ross blocher

That’s right! When they make the claims, we show up so you don’t have to. I’m Ross Blocher.

carrie

And I’m Carrie Poppy. And we are back to tell you about how to cure your COVID-19 symptomsss.

ross

You know, focus on the symptoms. That’s—

carrie

Symptoomsss!

ross

—important—

carrie

With homeopathy.

ross

Yeah. Sorry to leave you in the lurch, there. I’m sure you’re wondering, “Well, how do I apply all this important homeopathy information?”

carrie

You’ve all been saying, “I thought I needed to go to the ICU, but hang on. I’m gonna wait for the second week of Ross and Carrie’s reportage on this.

ross

I know that like kills like. I know that I have a vital force. But, what do I do?

carrie

I’m just gonna wait. [Ross chuckles.] I’m gonna wait seven days and see what happens.

ross

So again, this was a two-part class. I had attended the first part, and then Carrie attended the second part we’re gonna talk about. This was on Wednesday.

carrie

Yeah, it was a Wednesdady.

ross

Yeah.

carrie

Nice little hump day. Uh, I just want to say once again—[chuckles]— we’re recording this during the COVID-19 outbreak. Everyone is home, and so we’re recording it in my apartment, which is unusually loud, because everybody’s home.

ross

So—

carrie

So, if you hear some sounds, it’s life.

ross

You heard it here first.

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

You heard it in the backgrounds second.

carrie

[Chuckles] So, I got on there at noon.

ross

Good!

carrie

Thanks. It started at noon, so it seemed appropriate.

ross

[Chuckles] Yeah.

carrie

I think I was the first person there. And then a few minutes in, it was still just me, Rena, something that said, “iPhone,” which I think you mentioned you saw the first day. And—

ross

[Chuckles] Oh. Sure, yeah. It’s a Zoom call, so—

carrie

Right.

ross

—somebody’s got some device and they’ve never used Zoom before.

carrie

Mm-hmm. And someone who I noticed, last name, “Sassi,” just like Rena.

ross

Oh, yeah! Okay.

carrie

So, I actually wrote in the chat, I said, “Two Sassis!” And Rena said, “Oh, yeah. That’s my sister.”

ross

Ahh, okay.

carrie

Yep.

ross

I'm guessing this is the same person who was there the day I went as well. How many people did you get total? It sounded like there had been quite the drop-off.

carrie

It was very small.

ross

I know I was missing, but I was replaced by you.

carrie

True, but there was still attrition, overall. I think we ended up with five total—

ross

Okay.

carrie

—including Rena.

ross

[Carrie makes a couple of affirming sounds as Ross speaks.] So, yeah, a little bit of attrition there. But, yeah, when you’ve paid 55 bucks, usually you want to get both parts. But, A, life is complicated, and B, she had been providing videos and supplemental materials. And I’ll say she did a very good job of that, making sure that if you missed you, you’re not missing out.

carrie

Yeah. And she presented that well, too. Because I said in the chat, I said, “Oh, my friend’s not going to make it this time, but he’ll watch the video.” And she said, “You know, there’s probably a lot of people like that.”

ross

Ah. Okay, she did handle that well.

carrie

She—yeah, she did.

ross

And thank your telling her I felt—

carrie

No prob.

ross

You know, I—I know that feeling as an instructor and looking, “Where’d that person go?”

carrie

Mm-hmm. “Did I do a bad job the first time—“

ross

[Chuckles] Right.

carrie

“—that they didn’t want to come back?”

ross

It was nice of you to quell that voice inside her head.

carrie

No prob. So she said, “What’s everybody drinking?” And I said, “Coffee. Is that okay? Is that bad?” [Ross chuckles.] And she said, “Oh, no! I’m drinking it, too.” And she held up a huge, huge ol’ mug of coffee.

ross

But you said, “It’s 1X preparation. I watered it down.”

carrie

[Chuckling] Yeah, it’s not the actual beans. I su—I put them through a succussion process. [Ross and Carrie laugh.]

ross

I'm sure that’s gotta be a thing. Homeopathically prepared coffee.

carrie

It seems like that’s all coffee.

ross

If not, it’s probably a multi-million dollar idea.

carrie

I mean, the coffee—

ross

If I had no scruples, I could— [Carrie chuckles in agreement.] —I could make money on.

carrie

Yeah. I feel like you could just say it with any coffee. Just be like, “I succussed it the one time through my Mr. Coffee.” [Ross giggles.] Anyway, she said, “Okay, well, let’s—let’s get started. Let’s review a little. Who remembers what the two principles of homeopathy are?” [In a teasing voice] And guess who know? Guess who knew?

ross

I’m—I’m guessing Ms. A Student, uh, Ms. Poppy.

carrie

[Chuckles] It was me. So I was like—

ross

Carrie’s pointing at herself.

carrie

With my thumbs.

ross

With her thumbs. “Who’s paying attention? This gal.”

carrie

This guy. I said, “Like cures like and, a…fancy word for, ‘You have an energy body?’” [Ross chuckles gleefully.] She’s like, “Yeah, that’s right.”

ross

That’s word for word.

carrie

[Chuckles] And she said, “That’s right.” Oh, and then—you know what? Then a fifth person did join. Anastasia. So then she went into the discussion of the three-legged stool. And I remembered this from somewhere else. Where was it? Was it some other homeopath?

ross

Oh! Interesting. Okay. I don’t.

carrie

Oh, okay.

ross

But three legs makes for a sturdy seating surface.

carrie

It’s true. So she was saying, “When you want to diagnose with homeopathy, you want to make sure you always have three symptoms from your client. So, one should be mental and emotional, if you can. One—“

ross

Mm-hmm. Something to do with the mind. So you look for their anger, their irritability or their crying or weeping or sadness. Or are they being sorry for themselves?

carrie

[Amused] Mm-hmm.

ross

That’s the first leg of the stool.

carrie

Then the second one should be a modality. So, like, something that’s making them better or worse.

ross

Mm-kay.

carrie

You know, “Oh, they want warm. They want cold. They’re thirsty, and they like it when they drink water. They want to move. They don’t want to move.”

ross

As I was reviewing, I noticed that she asked, “Do they want a hot drink?”

carrie

Ohhh!

ross

And I thought, “Hey-ey-ey-ey-ey!”

carrie

[Chuckling] Carrie’s got this problem all the time!

ross

Yeah.

carrie

What’s that sickness?

ross

Well, and also your rating just went up.

carrie

Oh, true. As long as she’s allowing it.

ross

Mm-hmm.

carrie

And then the third is your—is your gimme. That’s the one where you can have a specific physical symptom.

ross

Mm-hmm.

carrie

But she’s like, “Get specific here. We don’t want to just hear, ‘[In a deeper, mumbling voice] Oh, I just got a fever.’ [Resuming regular tone] We want to hear, ‘High fever. Fever over 100.’ Or ‘She has fever and there’s chills. She has fever and there’s flushing.’ We want details.”

ross

This is where I saw someone in the chat was making a joke about a solid stool. Was that you [laughs]?

carrie

Yeah, that was me.

ross

I was like, “I’m betting that’s Carrie.”

carrie

And she said, “Yeah, with these three legs, you get a solid stool. Alright.” And then moved on. [Ross loudly snorts with laughter.] So I just typed it in the chat. I quoted her, “That will give you a solid stool. Heh.” And then she came back to a couple minutes later, and giggled. Yeah.

ross

She like it. Yeah, yeah. Good times. Another important piece of homeopathic information that she thew out there was that there is this Materia Medica, which is kind of—I don’t know, almost a shopping list or ingredients list of various preparations. She said that you can use that when you’re looking for one of those particular symptoms or a remedy. And she mentioned that there’s something like 5,000 remedies? I guess there’s different Materia Medicas that you can collect.

carrie

It’s like a Merk Maual.

ross

Yeah. I can’t remember where I looked, but I saw a number of different-named ones. And the largest one had something in, like the 500s or 600s of— [Carrie makes a thoughtful, affirming sound.] —ingredients or preparations. So I guess she’s got a massive collection. She said that about 100 of the remedies are the ones that we use 70 to 80% of the time. So you’ve got your—

carrie

Oh, interesting.

ross

—your kind of—your all-stars, your go-tos. Um—

carrie

Your Oscillococcinum.

ross

You—right, right. Your onion or your—

carrie

What’s that one that’s, like, would kill you? Belladona would kill you if it were actually there.

ross

Right, right. Exactly.

carrie

Arnica.

ross

Yeah, a lot of those. Arsenic—

carrie

Mmm.

ross

—as well. Arsenica. Not to be confused with Arsenio Hall.

carrie

Oohhh. I didn’t know arsenica was from arsenic. Makes sense. There’s an A on the end.

ross

Anyway. So that—that was a new piece of information for me. I think I’d heard of the Materia Medica before. But I wouldn’t have been able to tell you what it was.

carrie

Yeah, and then there’s also that—what was the other big book? The Hahnemann book? Or—Ordonis—Opipalla.

ross

Oh, yeah.

carrie

The Ordonis Opipalla. Mm-hmm.

ross

[Chuckling] That’s it.

carrie

Homeopathy Omnibus. Ho—Homeward Bound: The Incredible Journey. Om—shirico.

ross

Organon of Medicine.

carrie

Organon of Medicine.

ross

Organon, yeah.

carrie

That’s it. I was so close.

ross

Yeah, yeah. You were right on it. [Both giggle.] And she—she had a name for those kind of prepared recipes, preparations. And they’re called, “keynotes.”

carrie

Yeahhh! Really distracting thing to call it.

ross

Yeah, especially since she was presenting with a Prezi.

carrie

Uh-huh.

ross

So, I’m busy making jokes about power points—

carrie

Uh-huh. Yep.

ross

Yeah, okay. I’m glad our minds work the same way.

carrie

[Chuckles briefly] Totally.

ross

A keynote is just another way to find a remedy. And she said that when they write them out, they’ll be bolded or caps-locked, so you can look for them that way when—when you see something kind of listed out, and it really stands out. Like, “Oh, I need to go look that up, and then I can see what preparation I need and mix and match my pellets.”

carrie

Right. And she said those are really strong indicators. You don’t even necessarily need the other two legs, if you have the keynote of one thing.

ross

Someone’s done the work for you.

carrie

Yeah. It’s like, “Oh, he has an itchy throat and—“

ross

“This says, ‘Itchy throat.’”

carrie

“—and wants to drink diet Pepsi? That’s a keynote for—“

ross

It also says, “loose bowels.” [Carrie chuckles.] But it says, “itchy throat.” We’re good.

carrie

Exactly. So, she also said, “And there are a lot of scanned pages from all of these books. They’re in the Google Drive.” She really prepared very nicely.

ross

Yeah!

carrie

So, she mentioned that aconite in particular is good for the fear of death. That’s a great to give people when they’re afraid they’re dying.

ross

That’s probably less invasive than, say, psyliocyban.

carrie

Yep. That’s true.

ross

Which also can have an effect on fear of death.

carrie

I feel like you should check to make sure the person is not dying, though? What if it’s a rational fear? What if they’re dying?

ross

Oh. Oh, right. Uh, well—

carrie

Then—then you can do something for them.

ross

—it sounds like it’s supposed to deal with the fear itself.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

Which is the thing to fear.

carrie

Oh, touché. With these people, it’s always the fear.

ross

Mm-hmm.

carrie

The fear is bad.

ross

Gotta get that energy body in balance.

carrie

Mm-hmm. So she told us, “Homeopathy is gentle and rapid.” So—

ross

Right [giggles]. I—I liked the logic loop that starts here. But, yes, continue.

carrie

Okay.  She said, “You might find relief immediately when you take a remedy and then wonder, ‘Was that the right thing, then? ‘Cause that went away right away.’”

ross

Yeah. “That seems so fast. How could it possibly have taken effect?”

carrie

And then she said—right. Then that means that it was in fact the right one.

ross

That’s when you know it’s working. Yeah. But, even though that means it’s working, well, sometimes you need to give it four tries, like we talked about before.

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

So, it might not work right away. Maybe you don’t see that gentle and rapid response. So, you know, keep trying it. Keep dosing. And then she says, “Sometimes you’ll see temporary worsening of the symptoms.” So, uh, you know—

carrie

[Chuckles] Any outcome validates what I am saying [laughs with Ross].

ross

[Laughing] Right, exactly. “So, it might happen, like, absurdly fast, as if it was just maybe in your head or something. In that case, yeah it’s working great. And then maybe it won’t, in which case, you know, keep trying—“

carrie

Just keep on it.

ross

“—until it does do what you expect it to do. And maybe sometimes things get worse.”

carrie

"And that’s good too.”

ross

Those are the three possibilities. [Ross and Carrie laugh.] Either it gets better—

carrie

Or you—

ross

—it stays the same, or it gets worse. Either one, eh!

carrie

Or you die, in which case I don’t think you’ll be complaining.

ross

We’ll have a solution for that coming up.

carrie

That’s true. Oh, my God. So, I asked her—she mentioned something about the energy body, and I—I was typing in the chat a lot, and I said, “Can people see the energy body?”

ross

Oh, yeah!

carrie

And she said, “No. Well, I can’t. But some people can. I don’t have that kind of intuitive skill. I have other ones, but I don’t have that one.”

ross

Okay.

carrie

Alright. Fair enough.

ross

Know yourself.

carrie

Know—[chuckles]—yes. Physician, know thyself.

ross

Another way that you can know it’s starting to work is that the patient will either go to sleep—

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

—or get increased energy.

carrie

Or—[starts laughing]—their fever goes up. That’s when you really know things are top and notch.

ross

All of those mean that it’s working. [Carrie chuckles.] Yeah. Okay, so fever is a good thing.

carrie

Right.

ross

We want to encourage it. This might be the best piece of advice she had in this talk.

carrie

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

ross

And that is that, yes, usually people try to fight and remove a fever. The fever is your body reacting. And you had a good way of saying it. She liked that.

carrie

Oh, yeah. This is what my mom always said when I was growing up, that a fever is your body trying to bake the illness out.

ross

And Rena responded to that, “Oh! I’m gonna use that.”

carrie

[Imitating Rena’s voice, a bit higher-pitched and softer] Yeah, that’s really good”

ross

"I like that.”

carrie

[Mumbles a bit, still imitating Rena, then back to regular tone] And this is true. Like, basically your body’s trying to make an inhospitable environment for that virus or bacteria.

ross

Mm-hmm. And as much as you can allow that to run its course, do.

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

But of course, there are limits.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

Which came up as probably your question as well. It’s always fun to—

carrie

Uh, actually I don’t think it was.

ross

Oh, okay. It’s always fun to watch someone else partake in a class, and be like, “Oh, which are the Carrie questions?”

carrie

[Ross makes a couple of affirming sounds as Carrie speaks.] Right. Totally. There are definitely good purposes for fevers. But I was just curious about this too, because I do feel like I hear people just being like, “[Panting] Ah! I have a fever I have to take something!” And I always think like, “Well, it’s probably okay for you to have a fever until it gets really high.” So I was curious and went and looked up, like, “What happens if your fever is really, really high? What happens?” On the very upper end you can suffer brain damage.

ross

Oh wow.

carrie

But it—it—you have to have, like—

ross

Prolonged—

carrie

—a very high—like 105-degree fever for a really, really long time—

ross

Okay.

carrie

—and you do nothing about it. Then, yeah, you can start having seizures or have brain damage, but it seems to be pretty rare.

ross

Phew! Okay. That’s good to know.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

So, yeah. She spent quite a bit of time unpacking fever and what to do with fever. Of course, the one thing you really want to avoid is Tylenol, or these other drugs that people take.

carrie

Mm-hmm. This is her talking, not you?

ross

Yes. That’s her—yes.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

That’s a very good point to make. This is Rena. And so she said that the real risk of a fever is dehydration. And you want to keep people hydrated. Okay.

carrie

Hmm. That is one risk of a fever, yeah. And she said that it’s the suppression of fever itself that sends people to the ICU with COVID-19 [chuckles].

ross

That’s probably not correct.

carrie

Yep.

ross

She had one miracle drug for dealing with fever, and that’s ferrum phos.

carrie

[Interested] Ohh.

ross

So, you should be using ferrum phos—

carrie

Oh, right, right, right.

ross

—6X because it increases your blood volume. And the important thing of dealing with a fever and illness in general is having enough blood and have it be oxygenated.

carrie

Okay.

ross

And the ferrum phos will help you, uh, get your blood up.

carie

Okay. I think I missed the mechanism there. Okay. I didn’t know I would get more blood.

ross

Yeah. And it's a 6X preparation, so it’s not that dilute. And she said it actually does have some iron in i.

carrie

Ah. Ah.

ross

Probably very little, but there you go. There’s like an actual, active substance. And I was thinking to myself, “Well, yeah. Fararh Fawcett in her day has gotten many, uh, people’s blood to rise to increase—“

carrie

Is that true? I don’t get it. Because iron does that?

ross

It’s called ferrum phos. I was thinking of Farrah Fawcett.

carrie

[Laughing[] Oh! Wow. Didn’t even notice. Didn’t notice.

ross

[Giggles] See? It was that similar.

carrie

You know, you could market that. [Ross laughs.] You could make a ferrum phosphate with her on the front.

ross

[Chuckling] Need to get your blood up?

carrie

Yeah, yeah. There you go.

ross

Here’s some Farrah Fawcett. Ferrum phos.

carrie

Ferrum Fawcett? I don’t know. [Ross laughs loudly.] So, she said, “This virus—COVID-19—is very intense. So dry does are recommended.” So again, don’t take it with water. This is—I don’t know why this bothers me so much, but I just keep picturing theses sick people and then being like, “No, no, no! Do not have water—“

ross

Somebody being like—someone saying, “Open your mouth. Okay. I’m gonna put these pellets in your mouth—[chuckles]

carrie

“Dry-ass pellets in your mouth. Swallow. Swallow.” And then she said you can drop the pellet into a sleeping child’s mouth. So, you’re—no water, because they have COVID-19—

ross

I mean, it’s probably fine. It’ll just dissolve, but—

carrie

Probably. But, I’m not—

ross

It’s just a little obnoxious.

carrie

—prob—but, like, 1 time out of 1,000, you’re gonna choke that child.

ross

Yeah. Hopefully it would be small enough and dissolve fast enough that that would not the true concern. But yeah, she’s recommending 4 to 5 pellets ever 15 minutes if this is really serious. And yeah, of course—

carrie

[Chuckles quietly] This poor child.

ross

—if for some reason you can’t use the pellets, you can do the water preparation. But it’s gonna be more—what’s the word? Potent?

carrie

Yeah. If—

ross

If it’s in pellet form? I don’t—I don’t understand their—

carrie

—you’d—although, again, you’d think it would be the other way—

ross

Right!

carrie

—because she’s all up in dilution is—who knows!

ross

It’s contrary to basic logic, so—

carrie

Oh, it doesn’t make any sense.

ross

—that’s what she said at least. There were a couple other medications that—colly sulph for, uh—uh—

carrie

Delicious.

ross

Yeah. Colds and skin eruptions, supposed to help with that.

carrie

Okay.

ross

And the nat sulph. That’s for flu, nausea, and vomiting. Both of those are 6X preparations as well.

carrie

Hmm.

ross

So those were the three ones she said to have handy, and she showed us the little bottles from Highlands.

carrie

Interesting. So, with 6X, I mean—yeah. She’s mostly showing you just, like, very mild herbal medicines, probably?

ross

Yeah.

carrie

Hm. Interesting.

ross

Pretty much.

carrie

She also said we should get liquid oxygen.

ross

Oh, yeah. I don’t know anything about that. What is that?

carrie

I had to look it up. So she mentioned in particular something called, “oxygen extreme,” which supposedly is a liquid form of oxygen. You put it in your water. You drink it. And then it makes your body absorb extra oxygen?

ross

Hmm. ‘Cause don’t you have to get extreme temperatures to get oxygen in liquid form? Like, you’ve have to make it extremely cold?

carrie

I…don’t know.

ross

Okay.

carrie

But—[chuckles].

ross

I feel like there’s less than meets the eye here, but who knows.

carrie

I feel like the way to get extra oxygen is to breathe.

ross

That would help.

carrie

Yeah. Anyway. I looked this up. So there’s this wonderful doctor, Dr. Ken Harvey, from Australia—and I just went on this rabbit hole, being like, “This guy’s the best!” But anyway—

ross

Ah!

carrie

—he had, uh, reviewed this product. And he said, “It’s been proven not to work in the sense that firstly, we absorb oxygen from the lungs, not from the gut. And secondly, complaints about those claims have been submitted to the proper authorities, and they investigated them, and they’re completely spurious. It’s basically just salty water.”

ross

Oh, here we go. So the actual liquid point of oxygen is -187 degree Celsius or -297 degrees Fahrenheit [chuckles].

carrie

That’s pretty cold.

ross

Yeah, okay. I’m guessing that is not what you are buying in this bottle. She included the—

carrie

[Laughing] She—they just send you ice.

ross

—[chuckling] screenshot of.

carrie

[Chuckles] So that quote I mentioned—

ross

Mm-hmm.

carrie

—I just want to give a shoutout. That was from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation’s “Alternative Money Spinners” from 2006.

ross

Oh, okay.

carrie

And the reporter was Gordon Taylor.  Anyway, Ken Harvey, badass. So he’s this Australian doctor. He’s a medial professor. He worked with the WHO to create ethical criteria for, uh, drug promotions. Anyway. He’s been sued by, like, a bunch of homeopaths, and he’s like, “No! I’m not gonna back down!” And he’s—

ross

Nice!

carrie

He’s been the Ross and Carrie of Australia, and I love him. I’m in love with him. I’m marrying him.

ross

Well, mazel tov.

carrie

Thank you.

ross

That’s so cool. Also she recommends electrolytes, another important thing for hydration. Which, hey! I’m all for that. Good job.

carrie

Sure. Have some electrolytes.

ross

Yep. Give you some extra sodium, magnesium, and potassium. She recommended Smart Water.

carrie

Ah, right

ross

I don’t know.

carrie

Don’t know much about it. Jennifer Anniston loves it.

ross

I feel immediately suspicious of any kind of special water. But—

carrie

Sure. Fair.

ross

—I’m glad it’s smart. Probably use Gatorade or some other sport drink as well.

carrie

Coconut water, I think, has a fair amount of it as well.

ross

Oh yeah! Right.

carrie

Oh, yes. So, she gave us a really great advice for how to handle your own symptoms if you’re feeling sick.

ross

Mm-kay.

carrie

She said, “I firmly believe in people’s intuition. Everyone knows on a deep, soul level what is right for them, what is the medicine for them—“

ross

Oh, yeah.

carrie

“—what is disease for them.”

ross

Mm-hmm.

carrie

This is what I would call a poor idea.

ross

Yeah, and I think that was kind of delivered in the context of—she was talking about breaking a fever.

carrie

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep.

ross

And when you do need to do that.  ‘Cause she’s all for letting the fever run its course. And she had sort of rough temperature levels to look at. If you’re a really small baby—zero to three months—any fever probably you should try to break it. Uh—

carrie

If you’re a really small baby and listening to this podcast, that’s what you should do.

ross

[Chuckles briefly] Break that fever!

carrie

Hey, you cool babies.

ross

[Chuckles briefly again] And, uh, three to six months, uh, over 100.5 degrees. Six months or anywhere, you know, through the rest of your life, 104 to 105 degrees. But then she was saying, “You know what? You’ll know better.”

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

“You know, it doesn’t matter where these exact numbers are. You’ll feel it. If it’s less than that, and you're like, ‘This fever needs to break,’ go ahead and break it.”

carrie

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. This whole idea of you, like having intuition about your health is good advice if you have been through that scenario before.

ross

Yes.

carrie

‘Cause this is what our intuition’s great at. Is just recognizing shit it’s been through before.

ross

If your intuition is informed by experience and—hopefully—good science.

carrie

Right. But if you’re just like, “Well, I’ve never had COVID-19 or anything like it, but spirit, soul, what do you think?” [Ross giggles.] Your spirit and soul is just gonna make some fucking guess, and you’re gonna suffer the consequences.

ross

So she had a few recommendations for dealing with a fever. So, here you go. You can use warm and cold compresses. Good advice. Hydrotherapy.

carrie

Drinking water [chuckles]?

ross

I guess so. I hope so. Yeah, that would make sense. Uh, garlic remedies.

carrie

Oh, yeah. She said—okay. This sounded so gross. She said—

ross

Oh, yeah. “Put it up against your foot, but it’ll burn your skin if you put it against your foot—”

carrie

[Chuckles] Right. So, take a sock. [Ross laughs, wheezing.] Okay, put—okay, put your feet in socks. Then take garlic and put it outside the sock on the sole of your foot. Then take another sock, pull it on over that, and by the time you smell or taste it through your foot, the fever probably will have broken.

ross

I’m just picturing, like—

carrie

Eugh!

ross

—like, having to get up out of bed and walking over to the bathroom, and you’ve got garlic foot [laughs].

carrie

So gross!

ross

Huh.

carrie

And you know what? You’re tasting it. You’re tasting it, because it’s like you’re—you stink and now—so your body’s telling you that you’re tasting it, but you’re smelling it—

ross

Right.

carrie

—because you fucking stink!

ross

Yeah, she says, “Keep using it until it has so permeated you— [Carrie makes a disgusted sound.] —that—“ [chuckles]—yeah, gross—

carrie

God!

ross

“It’s coming out your mouth.” Then she also recommended Bentonite clay? So that’s a clay that she says pulls the fever right out of your feet. Or wherever you want to apply it, you can apply that clay.

carrie

Great. Let’s do it.

ross

And then also epsom salts.

carrie

I—I never really was clear on that. whether you actually can absorb any magnesium from epsom salts.

ross

If that gets through the skin barrier?

carrie

Yeah, yeah.

ross

I would imagine so. It doesn’t seem like an extraordinary claim.

carrie

I looked it up, and it seems like, uh, like the jury’s out.

ross

Oh, okay.

carrie

[Ross makes several affirming sounds as Carrie speaks.] But, um, yeah. I never really knew. So I asked her at this point, “Okay. I’m trying to wrap my head around all this at once. So if the sickness is really in the energy body, but COVID-19 really is a virus, does the virus attack the energy body instead of the physical body?” And then I said, “I know you can see viruses under a microscope. I assume you can’t see the energy body under a microscope? Or can you? I’m having trouble kind of marrying these two concepts.” She said, “Oh, that’s a great question. So the energy body has the disturbance. Then that weakens the physical body. And then it’s susceptible to the infection in the physical body.” I thought that was a clever—clever way, to, um, make these things almost agree.

ross

[Carrie makes a few affirming sounds as Ross speaks.] Yeah, and consistent with what she was saying in the first class about this being kind of the iceberg above the water that indicates the iceberg below the water. So, yeah. By all means, take care of these urgent physical symptoms. But we’re really worried about the energy body.

carrie

But then she said something very perplexing.

ross

What’s that?

carrie

“You know, germ theory has really been debunked many times.”

ross

[Sighs, then exasperatedly] Oh, my God.

carrie

“I don’t know why we’re still following that concept.”

ross

Oh, my God! Yeah, I don’t—I don’t think that’s so settled as you think it is.

carrie

You were just saying COVID’s a virus.

ross

Yeah, she just threw—

carrie

What does—what does, “germ,” mean to you?

ross

Yeah.

carrie

What’s a—what’s a germ?

ross

I have no answer for that. [Carries sighs.] That would be her question to answer. But yeah, wow. “Germ theory. Oh, that is—that has been disproven so many times.”

carrie

This is Rena again.

ross

Yeah, that’s what she said.

carrie

[Chuckles] Yeah.

ross

“Debunked,” I think she said.

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

Wow.

carrie

And I—I was like—in the chat again—“Oh! Wow! Is there any good reading on that? I had never heard that.” And she said, “Oh. There are great whistleblowers. There’s Sayer Ji from GreenMedInfo and Dr. Kelly Brogan, MD. They are the whistleblowers who are debunking germ theory. You gotta look them up. Ugh. They’re amazing.” I didn’t spend any time with Sayer Ji, but I did look up Kelly Brogan.

ross

Yeah?

carrie

What a cook.

ross

Oh, no.

carrie

Holy moly. She’s promoting this awful website called, “questioningcovid.com" that’s all up in 5G theories and [makes a babbling sound]. She’s an anti-vaxxer. She’s doesn’t think HIV causes AIDS. She thinks that the drugs we use to treat HIV cause AIDS. So—ugh!

ross

Mm. But she’s a whistleblower, huh? She’s on the inside. She sees the corrupt system and knows how they’re lying to us?

carrie

She…owns a whistle.

ross

Huh! Alright.

carrie

Yeah [chuckles].

ross

Well, way to blow that whistle.

carrie

And she says, “All disease is psychological.” She’s just—[makes several long fart sounds]. [Laughing] That’s my analysis of that.

ross

That’s—that’s how—that’s how you summarize it?

carrie

Yeah.

ross

Alright.

carrie

No, thanks.

ross

Rena was throwing out some other remedies, things that people had asked about as well. She was also talking about getting more oxygen from hydrogen peroxide. ‘Cause it has extra oxygen. H202. I was really curious about that. You—what are you saying? Are we supposed to drink hydrogen peroxide? I mean, don’t do that.

carrie

[Laughs] Huh.

ross

Yeahhh.

carrie

Yeah, that’s weird.

ross

The concept was, sometimes you need more oxygen than just simple water is providing.

carrie

Riiight.

ross

But I’m like, “Where are you putting this hydrogen peroxide?” That’s—

carrie

Is that bleach?

ross

No.

carrie

No. Okay. Hydrogen peroxide is the stuff that people used to gargle with, right?

ross

Yeah.

carrie

Okay.

ross

And apparently there’s not too much support for what my dad used to do, which is, like, to pour it in a wound.

carrie

Yeah,

ross

That can actually, like, really harm the healing process.

carrie

I did that not long ago, when I—oh, remember I dropped a razor on my foot—

ross

Yes!

carrie

—and it was infected forever?

ross

Yes.

carrie

One step in that process was that the only antiseptic available where I was was hydrogen peroxide. And I—I think it really did make it worse.

ross

Oh. So, you pour it, it foams. You pour it, it foams.

carrie

Yeah. Yeah.

ross

I remember ever time I got a cut, my dad would pour it on there.

carrie

Oh, wow.

ross

You’d watch it bubble. It would hurt.

carrie

Uh-huh [chuckles].

ross

You’d wash it off. Pour it on again. Bubble. Hurt.

carrie

Oh, man! I didn’t do it that many times.

ross

Oh, yeah.

carrie

Anyway.

ross

Another questioner asked about, uh, cider vinegar. I assume apple cider vinegar, and Rena agreed with that. “Oh, yeah. That’s another good way to help with you fever, is to take a bath in that stuff.”

carrie

[Laughs] These people are gonna smell to high heaven. [Ross giggles.] Garlic, apple cider vinegar. That’s potent shit.

ross

I don’t think smelling good has ever really been the province of alternative medicine.

carrie

[Chuckles] Fair enough. Well, they do have really good incense.

ross

Oh, okay. Eh. She was also, uh, talking about iron and how you need to be kind of careful with that.

carrie

Mm. Mm-hmm!

ross

Cause she realizes that’s important for the blood. But it can also be constipating. In general, whenever she would talk about supplements, she was more against the supplemental forms. Like, wherever possible, you should get it from the food.

carrie

Mm. Mm-hmm.

ross

Um, so she wasn’t a big fan of someone taking, like, iron pills, say.

carrie

And this is one bit of good advice. You do want to be cognizant of how much iron you’re getting. It’s one of the few things that you can accidentally get too much of.

ross

[Carrie makes several thoughtful, affirming sounds as Ross speaks.] Mm. Uh, while she was talking about germ theory, she was taking about how some people are just not susceptible to COVID and it all comes down to energy signatures. And so sometimes you’re born in—[sighs] this is where it gets really hazy. She was saying sometimes it can be inherited through your genes, but sometimes it’s just your environment. Yeah, it’s like, “Okay, wait. Define this more?” And that somehow you’re just, like, you’re never gonna get COVID—or you’re never gonna express anything with it—‘cause you’re just—you’re kind of immune to it. Too bad we don’t have a way to screen for that, right?

carrie

Right. Right. All we know—we know risk factors.

ross

And she called these—it sounded like she was saying, “myasims,” are these inherited susceptibilities or lacks thereof.

carrie

Mm. Okay.

ross

And apparently, this had been proven by some Dr. Koch who, uh, had been a homeopathic doctor who proved that you can be completely immune to something. And—for example—he knew that his energy signature was not susceptible to TB—

carrie

Oh, right.

ross

—and so he drank a solution with TB in it, and he didn’t get it.

carrie

Oh, right. Yeah, I want to know the real story there.

ross

[Chuckles] Yeah, right. I feel like we’re missing some details.

carrie

Anyway.

ross

Blech.

carrie

Blech! [Makes a gagging sound] That’s our analysis.

ross

Cool.

carrie

So of course, what is the best medicine? Say it with me, everybody.

crosstalk

Carrie: Prevention. Ross: Prevention.

carrie

You knew it was coming.

ross

Hey! Yeah. An ounce of prevention.

carrie

It’s true! Pound of cure. So she said, “Prevention’s not something we just do one time. Same with your immune system, you need to be—you know, constantly taking care of it, making sure you have a strong immune system.”

ross

Yeaahhh.

carrie

Sure. True. And then she said she’s glad that people are waking up to how supportive we need to be of our immune systems.

ross

People just kind of use that phrasing for immune systems, saying, like, “You need to boost your immune system.”

carrie

Mm. Mm-hmm.

ross

[Carrie makes several affirming sounds as Ross speaks.] “You need to strengthen or support you immune system.” I’ve heard people who understand the immune system better kind of caution against that phrasing, because so many of our physical ailments and problems and autoimmune diseases are the immune system being overactive and being a little too boosted. Sometimes a healthy immune system is one that knows when to hold ‘em—

ross

When to chill the fuck out.

ross

Yeah!

carrie

Yeah, yeah [chuckles quietly].

ross

Exactly. So whenever I hear, “boost the immune system,” I think, “What does that actually mean?”

carrie

Yeah, I think something similar. I always assume when someone’s talking about, like, “Such-and-such makes your immune system more active,” I think like, “Well, that means you infected yourself.”

ross

Mm.

carrie

I mean, which might be fine.

ross

Yeah.

carrie

I’m not saying it’s not. But, like, don’t just leave it there. I need more details. I remember when I was in college—I don’t even know if it was a proper study, but some news came out that was like, “Eating your boogers is good for your immune system.” And I was like, “Well, okay. But that probably just means, like, there are germs in your boogers.”

ross

Your—

carrie

[Laughs] I mean, like, that’s—okay.

ross

Yeah.

carrie

Fine. I’m not saying that’s necessarily bad, but it’s—

ross

[Carrie makes a few affirming sounds as Ross speaks.] It’s like eating that hamburger off the ground. Uh, your—your body’s getting some low-level experience at fighting off various microbes, and later on it’s ready for them if it encounters them in a more potent form. Okay. sure. Sure.

carrie

Yeah. And it—yeah. It’s kind of, like, saying, like, “Bright color stimulate your eye system.” [Ross chuckles.] Well, yeah. I don’t really know what you’re going for, but that’s truuue.

ross

Oh, right, yeah. It’s almost a tautology.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

It’s—it’s obviously and not particularly profound.

carrie

[Chuckles briefly] Right. Yeah. Anyway.

ross

Right. So, anyways. It’s definitely wording to be cautious around—to have a little red flag for—when someone says something is boosting your immune system.

carrie

Right.

ross

What does that actually mean?

carrie

[Ross makes a couple of affirming sounds as Carrie speaks.] That said, obviously you want to eat well. You want to exercise, get a good amount of sleep. These are things that are easy to not do well and affect your immune system, which is where I think she really wanted to go.

ross

Which is fair and fine.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

But she does have her own boot camp specifically for building the immune system—

carrie

Oooh.

ross

—so if this class has convinced you, you can shell out—I think it was 100-something for the, uh, for the boot camp.

carrie

Nice. Oh, I just got to show you this screenshot of all of us in the—in the chat. ‘Cause there’s Rena. Hers is the only image that’s actually on the only webcam.

ross

Right.

carrie

So, there’s her, her sister, the word, “iPhone,” and then me, where I am an ostrich with headphones on.

ross

Ah [laughs]!

carrie

And I just loved that, um, these were all the people partaking in this class.

ross

[Chuckling] There you are.

carrie

An ostrich, Rena, her sister, and an iPhone.

ross

Very good.

carrie

Yeah. So then she talked about constitutional remedies.

ross

Oh, yeah!

carrie

This was new to me. Do you know this one?

ross

No, I don’t.

carrie

Okay, so constitutional remedies apparently are your sort of daily medicines. So the way that I might go to my doctor and he might say, “You know, it’s good for you in particular to take Omega 3s. You should probably take those daily.”

ross

Mm-hmm.

carrie

Or vitamin D, there’s a common one that, you know, doctors will tell people like, “Oh! Your blood tends to be low in it. Let’s go ahead and have you take that.” Same idea here, that there are just homeopathic things that are good for you, Ross, and not necessarily important for Carrie to take.

ross

In order to form a more perfect Carrie.

carrie

[Chuckling] Exactly.

ross

That would be a constitutional remedy.

carrie

[Giggles] Exactly. That explains the blank look on your face while you figured out exactly how to work that in [laughs]. So—

ross

[Laughing] Correct. Carrie was watching me work on a pun.

carrie

“So, what’s happening over there? Oh, okay.”

ross

So there’s this—this test that they have to help—I guess—get enough info about you to build your constitutional remedy. An HTMA test.

carrie

Oh.

ross

Which is—

carrie

So close to HTML.

ross

Yeah. [Chuckles] That’s right. This isn’t a markup language. This is hair, tissue, mineral analysis. [Carrie makes an intrigued sound. She then makes a few affirming sounds as Ross continues.] So, I feel like I’ve heard them talk about that before: getting this particular piece of diagnostic material from you, and then they can use it to dial in exactly what you should be taking every day that matches your energy signature. And she had, uh, a list of homeopathic recommendations that I guess is kind of just sort of a basic kit that would work for almost everybody and could be tweaked. Though that included aresnicum 30C, byronia 30C once a day for three days, followed by eupatorium 200C once a day for four days. I don’t know about you, but my brain shuts off as soon as I see that. I just think, “I’m not doing it.”

carrie

[Laughs briefly] Yeah. I mean, fair.

ross

Too many instructions. You know, this and this—

carrie

Mmm.

ross

—for, like, once a day for three days. And then this other random thing—

carrie

I don’t know. That seems like something you could excel at.

ross

I don’t know. It just—I don’t—

carrie

You could literally make an Excel spreadsheet. You’d excel at that [giggles].

ross

[Laughs] I don’t wanna do it. But I guess I could. A number two was a nosode.

carrie

Oh, yes. Yes. So I think at this point, we’re talking about both what’s good for you everyday and—

ross

COVID-19.

carrie

—what’s going to help you not get COVID-19.

ross

Right.

carrie

So, yeah. The nosode again is like a homeopathic vaccine. She said, “You have to have a separate consultation with me.”

ross

Mm-hmm.

carrie

“I can’t just put this in your homeopathy kit.” I wonder if there’s a law around this or just her special rule or what.

ross

Yeah. I wonder if it takes some special preparation or juju or—

carrie

Yeah.

ross

—I don’t know. Energy alignment. Some piece like that. But I would suspect it’s more along the lines of what you’re saying, that it’s kind of like how if you wanted that preparation that included cyanide—

carrie

Uh-huh.

ross

—that—[chuckles]—that she had to go through a separate pharmacy. She didn’t have it available. But, “You know, contact me on the side. We’ll get you set up with this.” I’m guessing it’s something like that. Like, nosodes are kind of problematic.

carrie

Mmm.

ross

I don’t know.

ross

That’s speculation on my part.

carrie

Yeah, I wonder what the deal is there. ‘Cause I wanted that nosode.

ross

And the third thing that you can do for the COVID-19 preparation is to follow the Cuban protocol.

carrie

Yes. So this is apparently, allegedly—we haven’t looked into this very much, but something that some segment of the Cuban government is recommending for people to avoid COVID-19 is to take these herbal remedies.

ross

Yeah. She said “This Cuban government is giving this to their elderly.”

carrie

Hmm. Hmm.

ross

Hmm. I feel like if we looked into that, we might learn more.

carrie

[Chuckles] Talked about it a little bit in the last episode, and there were some good write-ups. But it’s sort of a dense and complicated situation, so I won’t speak out my ass about it.

ross

I wonder how many homeopaths spend time studying Latin.

carrie

Mmm.

ross

Or—or just doing some introductory courses in Latin, just to know how to pronounce these things.

carrie

Yeah, yeah.

ross

Cause I look at it and think, “I could use some Latin here.” But the Cuban protocol includes Anas Barbariae 200—and that’s the ingredient in Oscillococcinum.

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

Also Baptisia tinctoria 200. Bacillinum 30. Pyrogenium 200. Eupatorium perf 200. Influenzinum 200. [Carrie chuckles quietly.] That’s interesting. And Arsenicum album 200.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

There you go. Do it like the Cubans,

carrie

[Chuckles] We have no idea if this is what the Cubans do. We just know this lady says so. By the way, we’ve mentioned a couple times here Oscillococcum—Oscillococcinum, that’s it.

ross

Easy for you to say.

carrie

Oscillococ—[slurs the rest of the word]. [Ross imitates her slurring.] Um, which you’ve probably seen on store shelves. I picture a white box, blue writing, and then a band that goes from yellow to orange, running across the box.

ross

Yep. Yep. And in this case, this is something you should not eat if you can’t pronounce it.

carrie

Oh! True. But mostly because it’s nothing. [Ross laughs.] Um, so it’s a homeopathic remedy that has nothing in it. If it did have something in it, check out what the fuck it is. It’s like a piece of a duck or a goose’s liver?

ross

Oh, wow. Okay.

carrie

Yeah. Gross! Gross, mean, pointless, and not there.

ross

Though—[chuckles] right. Uh, I feel it’s akin to our future situation, where we’ll have cloned meat—meat that’s prepared sort of in vitro, pitri di—

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

—however you want to refer to it. But the idea is—

carrie

Nobody gets hurt?

ross

Yeah. You take one meat cell and then you clone that and, uh, yeah, the animal didn’t even have to die for that to get seeded. In this case, yeah. I guess you can have one very small bit of—was it liver, did you say?

carrie

Uh, I forget if it’s liver or gut or what. It’s sad.

ross

Oh, well. Whatever it is, it’s awful. Boy, I wonder about that, when they have a preparation called, “influenzium 200.” Does that mean that they just took—

carrie

Riiight.

ross

—some flu virus somehow? They got their hands on that, and they—or someone sneezed into a—a 99 drops of alcohol and then they did their succussion thing?

carrie

Yeah, I mean that sounds like a nosode.

ross

I’d love to see how all of these were originated. Like, what they actually did to get these batches started.

carrie

Whoa. Wait.

ross

I’m waiting.

carrie

Whoa.

ross

What?

carrie

I’m looking at Boiron’s website.

ross

[Chuckles and slurs, “Boiron.”] Yeah? Ugh.

carrie

As we all know, the—the top maker of homeopathy at—probably in the world.

ross

Yeah. Certainly someone you always see in the US.

carrie

Mm-hmm. Influenzinum, which is their—it’s proprietary—

ross

Oh, okay.

carrie

Is a homeopathic dilution from the approved seasonal and activated influenza vaccine.

ross

[Stutters pointedly] What?

carrie

[Giggling] So, they take—

ross

[Sighs] A vaccine.

carrie

—the vaccine.

ross

Something useful.

carrie

Yeah. For a second, you’re like “Oh, my God. The homeopaths are taking a vaccine. Alright!” And then they’re like, “Hang on. We’re gonna put it in water. And then we’re gonna succus it—

ross

Or alcohol.

carrie

—a bajillion fucking times.

ross

Uh-huh.

carrie

And then we’re gonna put it in some sugar pills and give that to you. [Ross laughs pointedly.] How would they even get the—you have to have an actual doctor who goes and gets the vaccine.

ross

They must—

carrie

I’m kind of doubting this even happens.

ross

Do they have someone on the inside? Like a whistleblower [breathes dramatically]?

carrie

[Gasps] Do they have a whistle? We should call. I got Boiron to refund me one time.

ross

Oh, I remember that!

carrie

Years ago.

ross

Yeah, there’s a video on Youtube somewhere of you, uh—

carrie

Yeah.

ross

—when you lived in the Hobbit home.

carrie

Yep. That’s right.

ross

Getting them to refund you for your purchase.

carrie

Needs no more explanation than that.

ross

That’ll get people searching on YouTube.

carrie

“Carrie Hobbit house?” [Ross laughs heartily.] No, uh—

ross

Getting colder. Colder.

carrie

But you can look up, “Carrie Boiron.”

ross

Boy-ron.

carrie

Which you obviously know how to spell.

ross

Yeah.

carrie

 It’s [slurs] Boiron. [Both laughs.]

ross

[Carrie makes guttural sounds on each syllable as Ross speaks.] B-O-I-R-hor. [Both giggle.] Carrie doesn't want you to know how to spell, “Boiron.” [Ross laughs while Carrie continues to make gutteral vowel sounds.] This is—like, I—I endlessly crack up at the, uh, fake pronunciation Youtube. It puts out names and words that people commonly don’t know how to pronounce. Like, “Brett Farve.”

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

And so—[chuckling]—if you listen to it, it says, “Beau Foofer.” “Beau. Foofer.”

carrie

[Laughs] And so confidently.

ross

[Chuckling] Yeah.

carrie

It's very important, the delivery.

ross

But Justin Bieber is, “Juggy Brodleteen. Juggy. Brodleteen.” [Carrie laughs.] [Chuckling] Oh, they just make me laugh and laugh.

carrie

John Hodgman does a similar thing, where if you donate during MaximumFun Drive and choose, “Judge John Hodgman” as one of the shows you listen to, he will say your name badly on Instagram.

ross

Oh, nice!

carrie

Yeah.

ross

The Youtube channel, is, “Pronunciation Manual.” It’s hours of fun.

carrie

[Slurring] Pronunciation Manual. [Slurs another word, then resumes her regular tone] I speak French.

ross

I'm gonna stop this, or I’ll just start listening to these for half an hour.

carrie

Well, you know what I could do for half an hour or an hour or 24 hours?

ross

Make websites, I bet.

carrie

Exactly. I could make websites. I can’t get e-freaking-nough of websites.

ross

I know, Carrie and her energy signature. It’s all about websites.

carrie

Exactly, Ross. I love to make a website, like, on a Saturday, when you’re like, “Oh let’s—let’s take a load off.” I’ve had such a busy week.

ross

Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah.

carrie

You know, I’m—I’m an architect. I’m a photographer. I’m a food producer. I’m a producer producer. I’m an instructor. I’m a wedding professional. I’m a restaurant. I’m a bar. I’m a pub. I’m a wellness coach. Or I’m a sports team. Or I’m a personal trainer.

ross

All of those things.

carrie

Or I’m a coach. And it’s time to take a load off. I think I will make a website for myself.

ross

Yeah! When you’re done with the brown paper packages tied up with strings, hopefully there’s a website inside of them. And to create that dream—that dream that is a great idea, that doesn’t have a website yet—you can make that real with Squarespace.

carrie

That’s right. You can create a beautiful website to blog or publish content. Have you heard about content lately? It is blowing up.

ross

You know, it’s king.

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

And, uh, you can promote your physical or online business. And a lot of business are online right now.

carrie

[Chuckling] That’s true. Maybe you want to announce an upcoming event. Maybe you’re doing your own COVID-19 symptoms homeopathy class. Well…uh, you could promote that. Uh, I’m not gonna stop you, but maybe you shouldn’t.

ross

It's a good way to get $55 out of us.

carrie

[Amused] That’s true.

ross

Or $110. But hopefully you’re doing something more legitimate than that. Squarespace gives you access to beautiful templates created by world-class designers.

carrie

It gives you powerful e-commerce functionality.

ross

A new way to buy domains and choose from over 200 extensions.

carrie

And 24/7, award-winning customer support. They got an Emmy, you guys.

ross

[Whispers] Wow.

carrie

So check out sqarespace.com/ohno for a free trial. And when you’re ready to launch, just use the offer code, “OhNo,” to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

ross

You're a daisy if you do.

carrie

So, she also was talking a little bit about vitamin C. Gotta get your vit C.

ross

Yeahhh.

carrie

Vitamin C’s a complicated one.

ross

[Carrie makes several affirming sounds as Ross speaks.] Yeah. ‘Cause vitamin C is essential. You need to have it. We don’t make it in our own bodies. If you've listened to my interview with Nathan Lents, our bodies used to make it back when we weren’t primates and we had the Gulo gene. Your cat does.

carrie

Don't drink the Culo.

ross

[Chuckles briefly] Your dog does. They make their own vitamin C, but we don’t. So, yes. You do need vitamin C. Good to get it through natural sources.

carrie

And you have to get it all the time because you keep peeing the fucker out.

ross

Right. So, all that is true and good. What does she say?

carrie

So, you want to take a whole bunch of it.

ross

Yeah.

carrie

Like, a whooole bunch of it. Let’s see. What did she say?

ross

3,000 to 5,000 milligrams daily.

carrie

That seems like a lot.

ross

Which I guess would just be 3 to 5 grams.

carrie

[Laughing] Oh, right. It’s always funny when people do that.

ross

[Chuckling] Yeah.

carrie

I always kind of go back and forth on the way people talk about vitamins. A lot of times, I’ll hear people who are very science-minded like us—

ross

Mm-hmm?

carrie

 Say, “[Sighs] You don’t need vitamins unless you’re deficient.” Well, okay. Yes. But it’s also not that hard to become deficient temporarily.

ross

Mm-hmm.

carrie

And topping off the gas tank, eh? Fine.

ross

Mm-kay.

carrie

But then some people go to this other extreme of, like, “If I pack in a million grams of vitamin C all day, I’ll just get healthier and healthier and healthier—“ No. No, no, no. There’s an upper limit to what you can do here.

ross

Right. And she said that, essentially. “You cannot overdo it with vitamin C.”

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

 She said, “Yeah, if you get more than you need, you’ll pee it out. And okay, if you add another, like, gram per day and finally you start getting loose bowels, that’s when to dial it back.”

carrie

[Laughing] It’s just my favorite fact.

ross

1,000 milligrams.

carrie

Yeah, that—that you want to get to what she called, “bowel tolerance.” [Ross chuckles.] She was like, “So take these until bowel tolerance, which is when you flush or, well, diarrhea. So you keep increasing every 30 to 60 minutes and then—when you’ve found your limit because you’re diarrheaing—then you go down one level—“

ross

[Quietly] Wow.

carrie

“—and then stay there. Just take those until you diarrhea.” [Giggling]  This is terrible advice. Especially if you’re dehydrated!

ross

She gave us a couple hints in this talk that English wasn’t her first language—

carrie

Oh!

ross

I mean, she—she speaks very well.

carrie

Oh, I didn't notice that at all.

ross

When she was trying to think of cold compresses—

carrie

Uh-huh?

ross

—she was saying, “Oh, what’s that English word for, ahhh…”

carrie

Oh, interesting.

ross

She had to think about it. “Compress.” So I wonder what her original language is.

carrie

Huh. Oh, I didn’t—

ross

She speaks very good English.

carrie

Right, right, right.

ross

But just every now and then—

carrie

Or maybe she’s bi—maybe she grew up bilingual and just, like—

ross

Oh, maybe.

carrie

Cause that—like, my—one of my best friends—Alisha—is bilingual. And every once in a while, she’ll be like, “Oh, I’m thinking of the Spanish word. What is the English word?” Uh, yeah.

ross

Right. There were just little word choices here and there that made me think, like, “Oh, okay.”

carrie

Mm-hmm. Oh, interesting.

ross

“She's got some other language floating around in her head.” But I'm sure we've mentioned this on the show before, but the vitamin C fixation we have Linus Pauling to thank for—

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

—who was a brilliant scientist and won two Nobel prizes. And yet even he could chase this rabbit trail that was not productive and not right.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

He went around promoting vitamin C as kind of a cure-all. And that’s not correct.

carrie

[In the negative] Mm-mm. Cure-alls cure nothing.

ross

But now everybody has that so firmly entrenched in their minds. “Ooh, I’m feeling sick. I better start taking some vitamin C.”

carrie

But like I’m saying, I don’t think that’s the—if you’re taking a little—

ross

It’s not the worst thing.

carrie

Yeah. If you're taking a little, you might be topping off the tank.

ross

Eat an orange. Why not? Have some lemonade.

carrie

But—yeah, eat an orange. There you go [chuckles].

ross

It's one of my favorite drinks. Can’t get enough lemonade.

carrie

Here’s a little inside-Ross-Blocher tip. You ever see Ross, offer him a lemonade or a root beer. He’ll be very happy about the situation.

ross

Yeah! Or a—

carrie

Those are his two favorite drinks.

ross

—or a Martinelli’s sparkling cider.

carrie

Ahhh, is that a third? Okay.

ross

That rounds out the top three.

carrie

Okay. Nice, nice, nice. Oh, yeah. So then I asked her, “Well, so wouldn’t vitamin C and all those things, would they be stronger if they were diluted homeopathically?”

ross

Yeah!

carrie

Cause you've already sold me on this concept.

ross

Good point!

carrie

And I said, “I mean, you’re talking about these really high doses of, like, vitamin D. Wouldn’t that make them weaker?” And she’s like, “Oh, no, no, no, no. You can’t do that.” [Laughs] ‘Cause you need actual vitamin C.

ross

Yeah. This one is—I guess—very clearly tied to the physical body.

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

Not the energy body. So, that’s where you want to use a real substance.

carrie

Right. Which, I mean, good. I’m glad she’s aware of this. But at the same time I was like, “Okay, well why do those behave so differently?” And she's like, “I don’t really know what you’re asking. It’s just—just don’t take those homeopathically.” Okay. Well…I was trying to form some internal consistency for you, but forget it.

ross

Not taking the bait. Oh, vitamin D is another one. You can’t get too much of that.

carrie

Is that true? Yeah, I guess that one’s water soluble.

ross

Eh, she was talking about, like, 5,000 IUs daily?

carrie

Oh, goodness.

ross

Thaaat’s a lot of vitamin D. And again she’d prefer it not be supplemental. But, you know, if that’s what you need. She said to also take vitamin K. I guess that helps fix it, or—I don’t know. Vitamin K was like a good assist there on the body handling the vitamin D.

carrie

Wait. I am not scientist. But. But I just looked up vitamin D, and it says it’s fat soluble. So I don’t think you do want to get too much of fat-soluble vitamins, right?

ross

I don’t know. She said to eat it with fatty food.

carrie

Hmm.

ross

So eat it with some avocados or something.

carrie

Oh! Yeah, no. The Mayo Clinic says vitamin D toxicity—oh, is a rare but potentially serious condition that occurs when you have excessive amounts of vitamin D in your body.

ross

Okay.

carrie

So, yeah. You know. Look up what the upper limit is before you got taking a bunch of vitamin D to prove a point.

ross

What else did she want you to take? Selenium, zinc, quercetin?

carrie

I’m not gonna correct you.

ross

I don’t know what that is. A plant flavonol from the flavonoid group of polyphenols—that’s boring—of a—

carrie

Okay. Flavonoids—I think—are like the B vitamins.

ross

It’s a plant pigment—

carrie

Okay.

ross

—found in many plants and foods such as red wine, onions, green tea, apples, berries, ginkgo biloba, and so on.

carrie

Mm-kay.

ross

“And some people use it as a medicine,” says WebMD

carrie

Oh, some people.

ross

Alright.

carrie

Alright. She also mentioned anas barbariae, which sounds like a woman’s name. Oscillococcinum, of course. Classic.

ross

Mm-hmm.

carrie

And aconitum. And she said, “Most people who take those won’t advance in symptoms even if they have COVID-19.”

ross

That—there you go.

carrie

[Chuckles] There you go. We don’t need any evidence of that. Just say it.

ross

Mm-hmm.

carrie

She also recommended zinc 30 milligrams a day. Not the worst advice. Zinc is one of the few things that actually, like, may shorten the duration of a cold.

ross

Yes. Though if you overdo it with zinc, I think you can lose your sense of smell?

carrie

I’ve particularly heard that you don’t wanna do, like, the sprays up the nose with zinc.

ross

Oh, yeahhh. That that could be potentially very dangerous to your sense of smell.

carrie

Yeah. That’s what I’ve heard. I don’t know if it’s true. Your mileage may vary. She also told us that she got advice from her spiritual leader.

ross

Oh, yeah. What is that? Does that mean, like, a human? Or is this some sort of spirit guide? You never know.

carrie

Well, she—she said the spiritual leader said that sumac is the cure for COVID-19.

ross

Right, and she didn’t seem too—I don’t know. That wasn’t the whole subject of the class She didn’t—

carrie

Right. If this were true, this would be a big bomb.

ross

Right. And she didn’t seem to really talk about it any more than that. It was just like, “Oh. My spiritual guide says this.”

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

Take it or leave it.

carrie

So I did look this up.

ross

Okay. Sumac.

carrie

I could only find one reference to it, and it was a Turkish website that I had to have Google Chrome translate for me.

ross

Okay.

carrie

But it was saying that there was a religious figure in Turkey promoting this idea based on a dream he had.

ross

[Sighs, then tiredly] That’s a great way to get info. Goodness.

carrie

[Chuckles] That’s how Daniel did it. So another thing she said we could do is—ugh, this sounds so terrible. Take—

ross

Is this the wet sock thing?

carrie

Yesss. Ugh.

ross

[Laughs] Gross [sighs].

carrie

You wet some socks. You put them on your feet.

ross

Uh-huh.

carrie

You put them on your feet.

ross

Kay.

carrie

Then you put wool socks over the wet socks. What? She loves doubling socks. [Ross chuckles.] Then you go to sleep. Ugh!

ross

Mm-hmm. And then you wake up healthy.

carrie

By morning you’ll feel better. This has been used for hundreds and thousands of years.

ross

Thousands of years. I know, and immediately I start picturing people from thousands of years ago with wool socks.

carrie

With two pairs of socks.

ross

Yeah. Huh.

carrie

Also something being used a long time, that doesn’t tell you very much.

ross

Argument from antiquity.

carrie

Mm-hmm. But also—

ross

Well, okay. Your mileage may vary.

carrie

Sounds so awful!

ross

Yeah.

carrie

Ugh!

ross

You know that game, “Would You Rather?”

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

My favorite question I ever saw—I—I don’t know why it made me laugh so much. But your option was, “Would you rather always have wet socks or always have air blowing in your face?”

carrie

Oh, air blowing in my face!

ross

Okay!

carrie

Oh, 100%.

ross

And those are both incredibly annoying.

carrie

[Laughs] Sure. But I’m a dog at heart.

ross

[Chuckles] Okay. Alright.

ross

Uh, you know, I’m not sure. I—

carrie

I mean, if I—well first, I’d want to ask a doctor, “Listen. Is this gonna give me glaucoma or something?”

ross

[Chuckles] RIght.

carrie

‘Cause my eyes will dry out ’til [inaudible]. But if there’s no actual medical danger, air in my face.

ross

I think I’ll go with the wet socks.

carrie

Whoooa! Let’s do it.

ross

They’re both so annoying, though.

carrie

Let’s do it for the rest of our lives. For one episode of this podcast.

ross

[Chuckles] Okay. Let’s commit—commit to this Would You Rather card that Ross read when he was in high school.

carrie

It’s funny, though, because air blowing in your face is going to come up at the very end of this talk.

ross

Ahhh.

carrie

Mmm.

promo

Music: Mellow ukulele music plays in the background. Jordan Morris: Welcome! Speaker 1: Thank you. Speaker 2: Thanks! Speaker 3: No problem. Thank you. Jesse Thorn: These are real podcast listeners, not actors. Jordan: What do you look for in a podcast? Speaker 1: Reliability is big for me. Speaker 2: Power. Speaker 3: I’d say comfort?

promo

Jordan: What do you think of this? [Loud metallic crash and clanging.] All: Ooh. Speaker 2: That’s Jordan, Jesse, Go! Speaker 1: Jordan, Jesse, Go!? Speaker 2: They came out of the floor? [Loud thump.] Speaker 1: And…down from the ceiling? Speaker 3: That… can’t be safe. Speaker 1: I’m upset. Speaker 2: Can we go now? Jordan: Soon. [Music that sounds like it would have backed a 1990s commercial starts.] Jesse: Jordan, Jesse, Go!: a real podcast. [Music fades out.]

carrie

So also she was having a lot of trouble finding the chat window in this part of the talk.

ross

Oh, my goodness! Yeah, the whole time the Prezi presentation would zoom in, zoom out, zoom in, zoom out.

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

And it—it looked like she just had sort of a nervous tick, where she just had to sort of scroll something or move around—

carrie

Oh, huh.

ross

—and she’d say, “Ugh, I don’t know why it’s doing this.” [Chuckles] And then would she'd say, “Someone asked a question, and I can’t find the chat. Where is it? Do I need to click out of here?”

carrie

And it’s that thing that—I don’t know if this is a universal experience of someone about my age, but where you have to convince your parents, like, “If you’re not sure what’s happening, don’t keep clicking things.”

ross

Mm.

carrie

“You’re just giving the computer more things to do before it returns to stasis—“

ross

Sure.

carrie

“—so we can deal with this situation.”

ross

Sure.

carrie

I feel like there was a little bit of that.

ross

Yeah, you’re just hastening yourself towards the spinning ball of death.

carrie

[Chuckles] Right.

ross

Or—or program crash.

carrie

Alright. So as you’re going along in your COVID-19 journey, you want to continue with natural medicines, hydrotherapy. You can add activated charcoal.

ross

Oh, yes.

carrie

And she says, “Activated charcoal is great, ‘cause it absorbs everything in the body. Good and bad.” And then she said, “It’s what they use when someone ODs. They pump the body with activated charcoal.” Which, if you ingested something—

ross

Oh, and you need to, like, physically collect it—‘cause charcoal is thirsty—

carrie

Yeah. It’ll basically coat your stomach and block your system from taking up that drug. But a lot of ODs are intravenous. You can’t put charcoal in someone’s veins. I don’t know. It seems like a real oversimplification.

ross

Mm. Speaking of activated charcoal and giving Ross lemonade. I remember during—do you remember that?

carrie

[Laughing] I know what you’re—where you’re going with this.

ross

During the Amazing Vax series, one day Carrie brought me this activated charcoal. Maybe it was a different seminar. Anyways, [chuckles] it was like lemonade, but it was dark grey.

carrie

Yeah. It looked terrible. It was—

ross

And Carrie just watched me with a big grin. Like, “You gonna drink this gritty, awful stuff?”

carrie

[laughing] it was $11.

ross

I mean, it’s technically lemonade.

carrie

“You love lemonade. I got you this.”

ross

“I spent extra money to get you bad lemonade.”

carrie

“[Laughing even harder] It’s $11.” [Sighs] What a good day.

ross

[Sighs] Good times.

carrie

I think that was the same day that Kellyanne Conway first used the term, “alternative facts.”

ross

Wow. I—I like that these are linked in your mind.

carrie

Yeah. ‘Cause I just remembered describing that to you, and you being like, “What?” [Both laugh.] But we were so tip-of-the-iceberg at that point. By the way—while we’re talking about ODing—just a sidenote—I feel like it’s something we don’t get to talk about a lot. So even though it’s a little bit of a segue, it’s a good time to talk about synthetic opioids. They are now the leading cause of accidental death in the US. More than car crashes.

ross

Whoa.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

Whoa.

carrie

So just a little PSA here. I think most of us have been affected by this point by someone we love struggling with this. So, if your doctor prescribes synthetic opioids for more than three days—especially for acute pain—like, you know, you just got in an accident or whatever—it’s a bit of a red flag. It doesn’t mean for sure your doctor is a bad doctor. But, like, you do want to say, “Ooh.” ‘Cause that’s about where your addiction profile raises—

ross

[Intrigued] Ohh. Yeah.

carrie

It's three days, your risk of addiction will spike quite a bit. SO you just wanna have that information. Be an advocate for yourself, because this—

ross

Push back a little bit.

carrie

—this—yeah. This is a real problem—

ross

Yeah.

carrie

—especially in the States.

ross

Good advice.

carrie

So she also told us thirst is a good indicator for what’s going on.

ross

Hmm.

carrie

Someone who needs phosphorus will want to gulp down lots of cold water, whereas someone who needs belladonna won’t want any water.

ross

Take that for what it’s worth.

carrie

[Chuckles] Also, how do you know that someone doesn’t want wa—like, I guess right now I need belladonna? Like, ‘cause I’m not thirsty?

ross

[Thoughtfully] Yeah.

carrie

Ugh. So This is where she mentioned the EVMS protocol again.

ross

Oh, right. Yeah, what is that?

carrie

So the East Virginia Medical School did put out this protocol. They have been dealing with a lot of cases of COVID-19 and had written out this protocol that she was quoting from. We talked about it in the first episode. They said something about, “letting the disease take its natural course.”

ross

Ah, okay.

carrie

What they were saying was—

ross

And took him out of context.

carrie

Yeah. They were saying, “You don’t want to necessarily want to immediately intervene with breathing support—“

ross

Mm-hmm.

carrie

“—because that introduces a whole host of other issues you’re now going to have to deal with.” Sometimes you will need to do that, but you don’t want to jump to it, right? So she took that tiny sentence about a natural course, took it out of context, and made it sound like they’re endorsing homeopathy or—

ross

In this $55 course.

carrie

[Chuckles briefly] Right. Right. So. I said to myself, I said, “I bet I can find the source of that.”

ross

Mm-hmm.

carrie

And I done did.

ross

[Ross makes a few amused and affirming sounds as Carrie speaks.] It turns out this protocol was written by Dr. Paul E. Marick from East Virginia Medical School. I reached out to him. I said, “Yo, I’m taking this class. Here’s how your quote’s being used. I just wanted to see if you feel like this is, uh, an appropriate understanding of what you meant when you said that natural course seems to be the best.” He wrote back and he said, “Thank you for this. Without question, homeopathy has no scientific basis, has been shown not to work. She’s obviously misquoting our work, and we are not herbalists or naturopathic doctors. Please keep me updated about this.”

ross

Good.

carrie

So shoutout to Paul Marick. Hello, hello. So, when she brought this up again, I was like, “Okay. I’m gonna say something about this.” So in the Zoom chat, I said, “Oh, uh, you know it’s interesting you mentioned the EVMS. I know the guy who wrote that. And while we’ve been talking, I said, ‘Hey! Uh, this class is mentioning your protocol! What do you think?’ And here’s what his reply was.”

ross

Mm-hmm.

carrie

And she sort of read that.

ross

Ahh. Okay, I heard her reply to that. Alright. She didn’t let it get her down too much.

carrie

No. Yeah, she said something like, “Oh, okay. Yeah. I mean, people say all sorts of things on homeopathy. I just ignore them.”

ross

[Chuckles] But—and then you selectively quote them when promoting your homeopathy class.

carrie

Right. Right. So then she also told us, uh, other things we could do. Ozone treatments, for example.

ross

Mm-hmm.

carrie

Don't do it, guys.

ross

Ugh.

carrie

Don't do it.

ross

So dangerous.

carrie

Can be very dangerous. Especially the intravenous gas therapy.

ross

You can get an embolism. Those are bad.

carrie

Yep. Your veins are not meant for gas. They’re meant for blood.

ross

Those can kill you right away.

carrie

Mm-hmm. That’s right.

ross

But then she tells us what to do if someone is critical.

carrie

Yes!

ross

[Laughing] Okay. Carrie’s so excited. So, yeah. Let’s say you’ve done everything right. Of course, ‘cause you’re a naturopathic doctor. But what if someone gets to a really scary point, where it looks like they need hospitalization?

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

[In a patronizing tone] “Well, first of all, I’m not gonna stop you from taking them to the hospital. If you feel you need to do that, go ahead.”

carrie

You could.

ross

[Continuing the tone] “Just be aware, as soon as you take them to the hospital, they’re gonna take them away from you, and you won’t have any control over them anymore.”

carrie

Thank God.

ross

[Chuckling] I’m thinking, “Good!”

carrie

[Laughing] You’re not an appropriate person.

ross

“But there’s some things that you can do—”

carrie

Mm-hmm?

ross

“—if somebody is critical.” Alright, you’re excited, Carrie. What can we do?

carrie

Well, thank you for asking. Ross, is it?

ross

I’m Ross.

carrie

If they are collapsing—

ross

Yes.

carrie

—passed out, on the verge of death—or have just died— [Both laugh heartily.] —you can give them corpse reviver!

ross

[Trying not to laugh] Corpse reviver?! What?! Is that—is that something not from the world of magic? Or Harry Potter?

carrie

[Laughing] Corpse reviver! Corpse reviver brings people back to live, but only if they have just crossed over.

ross

“Carbo veg-et-ab-lis,” is the name of the corpse reviver.

carrie

It sounds like wet potato [laughs].

ross

[Chuckles] Yeah, it’s—it’s got a lot of carbs.

carrie

Carby veg.

ross

Yeah—yeah. Carbo vegetablis. Wait. Carbo vegetabils.

carrie

[Slurring and nasally] Carbo vegetabilis.

ross

She went—she went on to say, “You know, that—there’s been times that it’s been known to work.”

carrie

Uh—

ross

And that's clearly not something that works all the time—

carrie

Right.

ross

—even in her estimation. "But, hey, you know, if they’ve just died, give it a chance! Give them some carbo vegetablis.”

carrie

[Laughs breathlessly] You might be able to revive them.

ross

Carbo vegetabilis, I guess. Okay. Oh, Boiron sells it.

carrie

Oh, good.

ross

Also known as vegetable charcoal, it is prepared by igniting a pile of dried beech or birchwood, which is then covered by a thick layer of soil. And then some homeopath comes along, grabs that, and succusses it and succusses it—

carrie

And says, “Give this to your dead friends.”

ross

And this will revive you from death.

carrie

Maybe.

ross

Maybe. No promises.

carrie

But if that doesn’t work, this is actually an either-or. Do you know what the other remedy is, if your friend has just died?

ross

A high potency of some other remedy?

carrie

Nope.

ross

Cell salts? Frequently?

carrie

Nope.

ross

Hydrotherapy and oxygen drops?

carrie

[In the negative] Mm-mm.

ross

Uh, insist on an IV of vitamin C at the hospital?

carrie

Mm-mm.

ross

What else can you do?

carrie

Your friend has just died. It is good to have a fan blow in their face.

ross

[Laughing strongly in disbelief] Oh-ho-ho-ho-ho-ho no-oh-oh! Ohhhh! But if they’re Carrie, they’ve had it blowing in their face their entire lives.

carrie

[Trying to catch her breath] If someone died—

ross

[Laughing heavily] Oh! This is a—now, we’re laughing. Obviously, this is a horrible situation. But just the thought—

carrie

Yep.

ross

—of this hapless homeopath sitting over a freshly dead body— [Carrie makes an amused, uncomfortable sound.] —pointing a fan at its face!

carrie

Yep!

ross

After putting some pellets of what used to be—[breaks off, laughing]—charcoal—

carrie

[Laughing] Birchwood.

ross

—of birch or beech covered in soil—[breaks off, laughing]. “This is gonna revive him. Oh, that didn’t work.”

carrie

[Laughing] “That didn’t do it. Does anybody have a fan?!” [Ross sighs with laughter.] Just imagine all of the funerals now that are just going to be full of homeopaths just blowing on everybody.

ross

That’s interesting, ‘cause I’ve heard that in Korea, there’s a persistent fear of fan death. Yeah.

carrie

Fan death. Yeah, yeah. That’s a whole thing.

ross

Yeah. So that would not be recommended advice for someone who believes that. Wow. Wow.

carrie

Well, they’d be dead anyway.

ross

So, corpse reviver. Make sure to have that in your kit.

carrie

Mm-hmm. Good God. Um, anyway.

ross

But, yeah. There were some other recommendations for people near a state of collapse. The ones I mentioned as alternatives. Including that IV of vitamin C.

carrie

Mmm.

ross

And she was saying at the hospital, you know, the doctors, the nurses, they may tell you no. But insist on it. Insist that they get a—a vitamin C drip in their IV.

carrie

Ah. This reminds me of a story I wrote recently for another project where a mother brought her adult daughter to a psychiatric hospital, but she didn’t believe in psychiatric drugs. So, she was like, “Just promise me you won’t give her any psychiatric drugs.” And the hospital is like, “Okay, ma’m.” ‘Cause they have, like, a 25-year-old woman. Like, the mother’s not the client.

ross

Right.

carrie

And so they’re like, “Okay.” And the mother’s writing this story, but you can just see through the lines. She gets her daughter’s back, and she’s like, “She was so much better. Like, everything was be—they must have followed my advice. ‘Cause she was completely fine.”

ross

“They followed my advice and did nothing!”

carrie

[Chuckles] Right. Sometimes it’s—it’s good to listen to experts sometimes.

ross

Well, good. Hey, they did—they did the right thing. She felt validated.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

And she was ignored, as she should be.

carrie

[Chuckles] Oh, she also mentioned that the hole in our atmosphere caused by depletion of ozone, that is indicative of us all needing ozone. Because whatever happens on a macro level also happens on a micro level.

ross

I pushed that right out of my brain.

carrie

[Chuckles] If it’s happening to the earth, it’s happening in your personal body.

ross

Oh, right! Oh, that’s right. That’s a really weird rule of thumb.

carrie

Yeah. It’s like As Above, So Below

ross

My personal body?

carrie

—but way more weird.

ross

Huh.

carrie

So, because the—the ozone in the atmosphere is—

ross

Over a different part of the earth.

carrie

—well, she said, “low,” but isn't the ozone in the atmosphere actually high, and that causes the hole in the layer?

ross

Well, the ozone layer hole has gotten much better—

carrie

Oh, that’s good.

ross

—because we stopped using all of those aerosolized products.

carrie

Oh, that’s—well, good. I was really afraid of that in third grade, so I’m glad to hear it.

ross

Yep.

carrie

How's quicksand doing?

ross

[Laughs briefly] Quicksand’s still around. Beware.

carrie

Huh. Shit.

ross

Uh, but yeah. The ozone layer is one of those kind of success stories—

carrie

Hey!

ross

—of us actually sort of turning the situation around.

carrie

Read Factfulness.

ross

[Chuckles pointedly] Right.

carrie

You'll feel better.

ross

I don't think it's completely out of the, uh, the woods yet. But, uh, it has improved.

carrie

[Queitly mumbles in a sing-song tone] Are we out of the woods? Are we out of the woods?

ross

Does that mean—

carrie

Doesn't matter. Anything that's happening anywhere on Earth is happening in Ross’s body. So…acid rain.

ross

Why does she have to pick on me?

carrie

Acid rain all up in you. Um…

ross

So, I need—do I need more acid? Or do I need less acid?

carrie

Less a—let’s say the less.

ross

Ohh, but I—

carrie

That’s why you need alkaline water.

ross

[Mock sighs] But I like lemonade.

carrie

I—[chuckles]—I bet she really does love Evalon water. I bet she’d be like, “That’s a wonderful example.” Deforestation shows that you need to eat more broccoli. Little tiny trees.

ross

[Giggles] I do like broccoli.

carrie

I love broccoli.

ross

I’ve never—

carrie

Not raw, though.

ross

Oh, yeah. Raw. Nah.

carrie

Blech. But, ooh, cooked broccoli? Mm. Mm! Mm!

ross

Mm! Delicious.

carrie

And then—

ross

Yeah?

carrie

The coup de grâce!

ross

Yes?

carrie

[In a French accent] The grand finale!

ross

Yes?

carrie

[Slurring dramatically] The Boiron [chuckles]. [Ross giggles.] Uh, she said, “And you can buy my homeopathic kit—“

ross

Yeah!

carrie

“—for a mere $176.50, with shipping and handling.”

ross

So I got a Venmo request—[chuckles]—shortly thereafter for half of that amount.

carrie

That’s right!

ross

Guess what we own?

carrie

We now have this. [Ross giggles.] I’m holding it.

ross

So what do we have here?

carrie

Okay. We have homeopathy for COVID-19-related symptoms.

ross

Right, right. ‘Cause we don’t treat a disease, we treat symptoms.

carrie

Mm-hmm. So, God. Okay, we have aconite. Oh, two types of aconite. One that’s 30C, one that’s—

ross

More like asinine! I’m gonna do that for every single one.

carrie

Ohhh, great. Uh…[laughs briefly] aconite 30C, aconite 200C.

ross

Those all get the same pun.

carrie

Oh, okay. Uh, aconite 1M, aconite 10M. Anas barb.=

ross

I—I have no barbs for that one.

carrie

[Chuckles] Um—

ross

Anus barb!

carrie

Oh, okay! There it is. Ant. ars.

ross

More like ant or not.

carrie

Cool. There’s gonna be like 30 more of these. Uh, ant. ar—ant. aresnicum. Arsencuim. Aresnic—

ross

More like Arsenio Hall!

carrie

Baptisia. More like John the Baptist?

ross

That—yeah, sure.

carrie

Bacillinum. Sur—

ross

More like ba-cill-inima Baker Street.

carrie

[Laughs] Soria—no. Bryonia.

ross

More like bro-nia.

carrie

[Chuckling lightly] Okay. Camphora.

ross

I'm done.

carrie

Carbo veg. Oh, that’s our corpse reviver.

ross

Oh! Yeah! Ooh! Ooh!

carrie

Yeah.

ross

If—

carrie

We have to keep that until one of us dies now.

ross

If I keel over—

carrie

[Chuckling] I’ll give you that.

ross

You have to be freshly dead.

carrie

Ugh. Are we gonna have to take that everywhere?

ross

I—[chuckles]—I love it—you know, someone drags me out of a pool somewhere.

carrie

“Don't worry! I—this is what he’d want!”

ross

“Wait! Before you try anything else, let me put a pellet of this in him!” [Carrie sighs with laughter.] Oh! It’s kind of hard, too, to identify these. ‘Cause once you open it up, you just see—let’s see. It’s a grid of five by—what is it? Eleven?

carrie

Not sure.

ross

[Under his breath] Six, seven, eight, nine, ten. [Regular volume] Ten. So, yeah, we’ve got fifty of these remedies. But it’s just a bunch of black caps.

carrie

But, but, look at the—nope. Open it up. Open back again. And right in front of you.

ross

[Gasps] Oh! Like—

carrie

Yeah! It’s like a See’s candy box where the diagram is—is there for you.

ross

Okay. Yeah, yeah. I was thinking Battleship, but that’s a better analogy. [Carrie chuckles.] Uh, okay. There you go. That’s how you can tell which one is which. ‘Cause when you’re in a hurry—when you need to find that corpse reviver—

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

—you want to find it right away. Okay. Carb V 1M. I got it. I am ready to revive a corpse.

carrie

Yaaayy. With Carbo veg.

ross

I’m gonna take a picture of that. Amazing.

carrie

I'll just rattle off some others. Carbon dioxide, China office? China O-F-F—oh, I’m sure it’s fine. Eup perf. Ferrum phosphate. Gelsemium. Hydastis. Infuenzinum!

ross

Oh! There we go.

carrie

I wanna tell her, like, “Hey, did you know this is the flu vaccine? Did you know that you're selling the flu vaccine?”

ross

Yeah.

carrie

Huh. [Slurs] Justicia. [Ross snorts with laughter.] Calc carb. Lobelia. Mercurius. Oh, nux vomica. Ew, is that made out of vomit? [Ross laughs in disgust.] Ugh. I'm gonna look this up. Nux vomica. “Contains strychnine and brucine, two deadly chemicals.”

ross

Cool.

carrie

People use it for erectile dysfunction when it's in its actual potent form.

ross

Well, I can see why it’s in this homeopathy for COVID-19 kit.

carrie

[Chuckles] One of the biggest problems with COVID-19 is erectile dysfunction. Everybody’s talking about it. Phosphoric acid. Phosphorus. Pyrogenium. Spigelia stannum. Sciatica? Sick-ti-ca?

ross

What?! We—

carrie

Schita. Schita.

ross

Oh, okay,

carrie

And thuja. And then there's a little tiny asterisk at the bottom that says, “Remedies made with 100% sucrose pellets.”

ross

[Laughs] Meaning 100% sugar pills.

carrie

These are all sugar.

ross

“Remedies made with 100% sucrose pellets.” Wow.

carrie

We paid $176.50 for what is essentially very bad candy.

ross

[Whispers] Wow. Okay. Well. I don’t—I don’t know if was our best purchase ever. I don’t know what we’re gonna do with that.

carrie

Well, I think—

ross

Hey, if we revive one dead corpse with that, that—that’s it’s money’s worth right there.

carrie

Oh. So worth it. Also, Ross—

ross

Carrie.

carrie

—I am willing to make commitment here and now.

ross

Okay.

carrie

In this moment and time.

ross

Yeah.

carrie

That if COVID-19 has cleared up relatively well in 2021, that we do go at least a couple more live shows—

ross

Yes?

carrie

—and we bring our homeopathy kit.

ross

I like it.

carrie

There we go.

ross

Okay. There we go.

carrie

Something for it to do.

ross

We can share the love and the wealth.

carrie

There we go [sighs].

ross

So there we are. We are the proud owners of this health kit. We did not get a nosode. [Carrie sighs.] We did not get cyanide.

carrie

Ugh! Terrible. Honestly terrible. But we’ve been wearing our masks. We’re both doing okay.

ross

Yeah.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

And we hope you are as well.

carrie

Wear your masks. And…if you actually start to feel sick, call your doctor.

ross

Yes. That’s right.

carrie

Call your actual, real, medical doctor.

ross

Call first.

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

Get the recommendation. Don’t just drive there.

carrie

Call the ol’ doctor-roo-roo.

ross

Those are the rules. We don’t make them, but we try to live by them.

carrie

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Amen.

ross

I guess that's it for this investigation. We watched and attended these classes. We learned a lot. I would say I did learn a lot about homeopathy—

carrie

Oh, very nice.

ross

—I didn’t know before. Doesn’t give me any greater faith in it, though.

carrie

[Chuckles] My faith in it has been reduced, which actually makes it more potent.

ross

Hey, hey! I—I see what you’re doing there.

carrie

Alright, alright.

ross

Yeah, there we go. The class was effective. [Carrie giggles.] She sent a survey form. I haven’t filled it out yet. But maybe I can say that.

carrie

Yeahhh. There you—[laughs]—you’re gonna steal my line!

ross

No, no. That’s your line. You—you use it.

carrie

Let me see here…

ross

Who’s line is it anyway?

carrie

Did she send me—“follow up.” There it is. Okay. Cool.

ross

Alright.

carrie

I'll fill that out, too.

ross

Good.

carrie

Well, that’s it for our show. Our theme music is by Brian Keith Dalton.

ross

Our administrative manager is Ian Kremer.

carrie

I want to thank Dr. Paul Marik, both for helping us with this episode and for doing good work actually treating people with COVID-19.

ross

For being a badass. You can support us at MaximumFun.org/donate or /join. But you can also support us by giving us positive reviews, sharing us with your friends, playing us in the car when you go on a road trip. Spread the word.

carrie

This episode was edited by Victor Figueroa. And you can follow us on social media, you know.

ross

That's a good idea.

carrie

Yeah! We have Twitter. We’re @ohnopodcast. And we have Facebook. facebook.com/onrac.

ross

We share fun stuff there.

carrie

Yeeaahh.

ross

Check it out.

carrie

Check it out. Check, check it.

ross

In—interact.

carrie

You know, speaking of science, I just read a pretty good book about, uh, the study of alternative medicine and whether it’s as good or better than placebo.

ross

Oh, ooooh.

carrie

It was a very thorough look at that. It was very enjoyable. It was called, “Snake Oil Science.:

ross

Ahhh.

carrie

Anyway, I'm gonna slap it up—

ross

Yeah, where am I going to find this?

carrie

On our bookshop.org store!!

ross

That's right. We’ve got a bookshop at Bookshop.

carrie

Yeah!

ross

Yeah, this is super fun. A nice little bit of synchronicity.

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

Uh, Carrie had just found out about this and then Mallory O’Meara of Reading Glasses podcast also messaged me that same day and said, “Hey, we just created our own Bookshop, and it’s a great way for your listeners to support local bookshops—“

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

“—but also to support you.”

carrie

Yeah.

ross

And so I said, “Why, thank you, Mallory. I think we’ll look into that.”

carrie

This is so cool, because there are so many ways that, uh, we are all reliant on Amazon, a company that I don’t care for. Um, and this is, uh, a good way to instead support local bookstores while still getting that mail-order experience, if that’s something that you need, especially right now. [Ross makes a few affirming sounds as Carrie continues.] Um, so yeah. They have, like, a network of different independent bookstores that fulfill the orders, so you’re always supporting an independent bookstore. And then on top of it, if one of your favorite, say, podcasters curated a list for you, you can say, “Well, thank you, A, for curating this wonderful list of things I should read and B, for doing whatever it is you do in general. For example, making a show I love.”

ross

Yeah. And, uh, both Carrie and I are big book lovers. And, uh, we—we love a lot of the same books, and we love some different books that the other hasn’t read yet. So, uh, if you go to bookshop.org/shop/ohno, you can find our shared recommendations, our individual recommendations, and right there, add them to your cart. So please check that out, and, uh, it’s a work in progress. There will be more coming.

carrie

And that's a way to support the show and your local bookshop.

ross

I think mine is all nonfiction. Do you have any fiction books in yours?

carrie

I have at least one fiction book in mine.

ross

Well, I guess I have The Thrilling Adventures of Lovelace and Babbage, and a lot of that is fiction, but in a very geeky, fun way. Anyways, yeah, check it out. And, uh, I do read fiction, it’s just…nonfiction is my drug of choice.

carrie

Yeah, me too. Buuut, yeah, The Rapture of Canaan is in there and that is so good.

ross

Oooh.

carrie

Maybe I’ll put A Prayer for Owen Meany in there, too. Who knows?

ross

Oh, I've already looked through the list of things that you’ve added and gone, “Oh! I’ve gotta read that.” So—

carrie

Oh, good.

ross

--I'll be reading stuff off of bookshop.org.

carrie

Alright! /shop/ohno!

ross

Uh, and while we're talking about it, MaximumFun.org, you can find transcripts of this show!

carrie

That's right!

ross

If you’re thinking, “Ooh, I want to read more stuff. I want to read this podcast.”

carrie

"I want to re-read what I just heard.”

ross

Or maybe you know somebody who, eh, they don’t listen to stuff. But they would be—

carrie

Yeah! That's not their deal.

ross

—they would be into a transcript. Send them the transcript.

carrie

But maybe encourage them to download as well, so we still get that sweet download number.

ross

Read the transcript! [Carrie chuckles and then they both sigh.] And remember:

carrie

From my old friend, James  Randi.

clip

James Randi (Homeopathy, Quackery, and Fraud TED talk, 2007): I want you to know the four rules of homeopathy, each increasingly more embarrassing. The first one is that you do what they call a, “proving.” A proving in homeopathy—and I’ve—I’m not going to go into all the details. That would take me three nights here. The proving consists of taking a substance—we’ll call it substance X—and you give it to a patient who is well. That is, to a person who is well. Now, that definition isn’t arrived at. Maybe somebody who can walk and sit down and stand up again and is warm would be a person that’s well. I don’t know. But you give it to a person who’s well, and that person develops symptoms A, B, and C. And I will say that the substance is, uh, the—the milk from milkweed. Oh, that must taste awfully bad. Sap from milkweed. Blah! Uh, you give that to a—a well patient in a proving. And in this proving, the patient develops these three symptoms. A, face gets very, very red. Head swells up round like a ballon, and every 20 minutes, he falls down on the ground in a dead faint. Now, those are symptoms you’d be likely to notice. [Audience chuckles quietly.] I think you’ll agree with that. So they write that down in the book. That’s called, “the proving.” That’s the first rule of homeopathy. Second rule of homeopathy is—suppose you have a patient walk into the office and the patient sits down and says, “Ah, am I sick.” And the homeopath looks at the patient and notices that the patient has head swollen up like a balloon and is bright red. And the homeopath says, “Hmm. Every 20 minutes do you fall down on the ground in a dead faint?” And the patient looks at his doctor, and, “You’re wonderful. Yes I do.” Wait a minute. You go through the book. You find out what caused that in a well patient and then you give them that medicine, and reverses the effect. Don’t look at me. It’s their idea. [Audience chuckles warmly.] And the people down there going, “Why?” Yeah. It’s their idea, not mine. I’m just telling you what it’s all about. Third rule of homeopathy says you don’t do that. [Scattered audience laughter.] I told you they got sillier as they went along. [Audience laughs.]

clip

James Randi: Third rule of homeopathy says that you give them a highly diluted mixture of that substance. You haven’t heard dilution until you hear this. I’m going to step over the board here. This is a simple mathematical lesson, okay? 10^1 is 10. Okay, we knew that. 10^2 is 100. It’s the number of zeroes after the one that the index refers to. Okay, so 10 cubed, 10^3 has 3 zeroes, and it goes on and on like that. Okay? Now, in homeopathy, to prepare a solution, you take one part of the substance and you but it in ten parts of water and then you success it. That would be called a, “one solution.” They never use that. Far, far too strong. Now, what they do to prepare it is they take the substance, put it in the water and then they success it. That means shake it up and down ten times, sideways ten times, and back and forth ten times, in three different dimensions, ten times each. That’s called, “succession.” I call it, “shaking it.” [Audience laughs.] But I’m not scientific. So what do I know? That’s a one solution. As I say, they never use that. Then they take one part of that solution and put it in ten parts of water, and chugga-chugga-chugga the whole thing all over again. And they get a two solution. One part in one hundred. You following that? Then they repeat in one more time, ten parts, and they get one in a thousand. But that’s far, far, far too concentrated. Nooo. They prefer dilutions of 1 in 10^20th parts of water. That’s 1 with 20 zeroes after it. That’s what I call dilute. “Attenuated,” is the term they use. Attenuated. That’s really attenuated. And the fourth rule of homeopathy. As if you weren’t ready for it. The more dilute the medicine is, the stronger it is. [Audience laughs.] I told you they get sillier as you go along.

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About the show

Welcome to Oh No, Ross and Carrie!, the show where we don’t just report on fringe science, spirituality, and claims of the paranormal, but take part ourselves. Follow us as we join religions, undergo alternative treatments, seek out the paranormal, and always find the humor in life’s biggest mysteries. We show up – so you don’t have to. Every week we share a new investigation, interview, or update.

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