TRANSCRIPT Oh No, Ross and Carrie!: Carrie Meets Lori Spagna: DNA Activation Edition

Carrie speaks with “DNA activator” Lori Spagna, a spiritual teacher with a sizable online following. Lori explains how she channels beings in other realms, adjusts DNA, promotes financial abundance, and challenges the traditional definition of “truth.”

Podcast: Oh No, Ross and Carrie!

Episode number: 246

Guests: Lori Spagna, spiritual teacher

Transcript

music

“Oh No, Ross and Carrie! Theme Song” by Brian Keith Dalton. A jaunty, upbeat instrumental.

carrie poppy

Hello! Welcome to Oh No, Ross and Carrie! The show where we don’t just report on fringe science, spirituality, and claims of the paranormal. No! [Tuts.] We take part ourselves. [Pitching her voice low to imitate Ross.] Yep. When they make the claims, we show up so you don’t have to. I’m Ross Blocher. [In her normal voice.] And I’m Carrie Poppy. And I know I fooled you just there, but Ross is actually not here this time. So, this time it’ll just be me and the spiritual teacher, Lori Spagna. So, you heard about her in the Conscious Life Expo series, if you’ve been following the show. She was in part three. Some of her greatest hits you might remember from her talk about DNA were: “Diabetes is an inability to accept the sweetness of life!” And, “Cancer comes from old wounds and you just have to cure it through forgiveness.” “The cause of all problems in the world is vibrational mismatch.” She said, “Science has proven that there are ten more strands of DNA, in humans—” in addition to those two we’ve always known about, since 1953, when Watson and Crick discovered the double helix. And she also said, “Compassion allows you to access those other ten strands.” She also said, “AI robots are souls who have caused so much harm, they can’t have a body!” She asked, “Who’s afraid of viruses?” And when I raised my hand, I was one of only two people in the—in the audience who did so. And she kind of mocked us. She told us that activating these special codes that she knows will make you immune to all viruses. This was just about a month before corona virus hit the US, too. She told us, “Medications and financial debt are all part of the old paradigm that’s going away.” Anyway. You get it. She said a lot of stuff. So, Lori Spagna is a relevant figure today for a few reasons. One is that our society is currently having this, like, particularly contentious relationship to truth. So, somewhere along the way we started to think of truth as something that’s different for everybody. And for a long time, we treated it as kind of gauche to even engage with people about their beliefs, about things like the universe and God and truth. And I think there’s this sort of unspoken rule that we never ask people why they believe. And I always found that a bit insulting, even when I was religious. Because, you know, I felt like—well, you’re just assuming I don’t have a good answer! And I do! So, I think the last few years have shown us just how dangerous that attitude can be.

carrie

We used to hear this phrase all the time: “Well, what’s the harm?” [Chuckling.] And that was always delivered rhetorically, right? The answer was implied—there is no harm. Now, I think you could ask the exact same question, “Well, what’s the harm?” And again, you don’t even have to answer. We all know. The answer is implied. It’s all around us, right now. And the other reason Lori is particularly relevant right now is that she has a sizeable internet following. And she’s speaking at conferences, she’s teaching workshops, she’s taking divinations. And I think this is where it gets the most dicey: she’s performing healings and what she calls DNA activations. In a recent interview about COVID, she told a fellow youtuber that she can heal whole groups of people at a time. And she’s saying things like this: “If you’re afraid of getting the virus, if you’re thrilled that you didn’t get the virus, that means there’s a victim-victimizer program running.” And she goes on to say, “There’s nothing to fear in the physical world, right now.” And that, “Anyone who is dying is choosing to exit.” And this health emergency isn’t—the only thing facing our world or facing the US in particular right now—we’re also facing a record high level of unemployment, a tanked economy—and if you want help with your finances, Lori offers some advice too. She teaches regularly about how to get money, even become a millionaire, mostly by changing your mindset. So, right now roughly one in four Americans will be out of work this month. So, flipping financial advice is not inconsequential. So, this conversation you’re about to hear is tough. And usually I want to find common ground, I wanna start from a place of understanding and work from there. And I will admit this was harder to do with Lori than with pretty much anyone else I’ve ever interviewed. But I believe in trying to find the truth and Lori says she does too. So, I kept at it. And if you’re here because you follow Lori’s teachings, I hope you’ll stay through to the end and seek the truth too. So, here then is the interview.

music

“Oh No, Ross and Carrie! Theme Song” by Brian Keith Dalton. A jaunty, upbeat instrumental.

carrie

I’m so excited to have our guest today! We have Reverend Lori Ann Spagna. She’s a spiritual teacher, an author, a speaker, and ascension guide, multidimensional channel, intuitive, pet psychic, energy healer, lightworker, visionary, and luminary. And like me, she loves animals and she loves the truth. Her books include How Psychic Are You? and The Secret Energy of Money and the Spiritual Laws of Wealth. She also hosts a popular YouTube channel called Ascension and Enlightenment, where she offers wisdom, healing, and channeling sessions with beings from the great beyond. And she says her life calling is to help people wake up to the truth. So, calling in from Florida, please welcome Lori Spagna.

lori spagna

Well, hi Carrie! Thanks for having me here today. I’m looking forward to our time together.

carrie

Me too! I’ve been looking forward to this for a couple weeks, ‘cause I’ve been watching your stuff pretty nonstop. You turn out a lot of stuff!

lori

[Laughs.] I do. I do churn out a lot of content. It’s amazing.

carrie

Yeah. How do you find the stamina?

lori

It’s not even a matter of stamina. I just love it so much, it is like the divine working through me and using my body vehicle, and I just—I get charged by it. I love sharing stuff from the nonphysical and from the unknown and bringing it into the known world.

carrie

Okay, so doing that stuff doesn’t exhaust you. Like, I talked to some healers who say that doing their healings depletes them of energy. Not the same for you?

lori

If they’re getting exhausted, they’re using their own energy. They should be using source energy. Source energy, it’s infinite. And it is always replenishing.

carrie

Ah, interesting. Okay.

lori

And it’s—contributes to reversal of aging and age regression. They’re using their own human energy and that’s not, in my opinion, not true divine healing.

carrie

Okay, I wanna get into that a little more, but just before we jump ahead of ourselves, I wanna hear a little bit about your background. You know, where you grew up, what the early years were like. So, let’s start at the beginning. Where were you born?

lori

I was born in New York, outside of Manhattan in Westchester County. My storyline is this: I went through mainstream life, like everybody else. And somewhere around 20 years after college, approximately, of living in mainstream America, over those 20 years I just developed the worst habits. I was miserable. I was not aligned with my path. So, I developed all these coping mechanisms that humans do—excessive drinking, excessive eating, excessive smoking, excessive caffeine, excessive spending, excessive pharmaceutical drugs from well-meaning doctors. Ridiculous amounts of financial debt. You know. Working the hamster wheel, the slavedriver programing that is typical in our human society. And a million other unhealthy behaviors. And it got to the point where it just was so bad, I was so miserable. And my brother actually died. And he became my divine wakeup call. And I started hearing and receiving messages from him that, over the course of like two years, I was testing them, trying to make sure I wasn’t going crazy. And that started opening up all my gifts. I’ll just give a little bit more to this storyline so you can sort of see how it became where I am now—is that that wakeup call was like, “You have to change your ways. You’re basically doing the same kind of lifestyle that I had. And if you don’t change your ways, you’re gonna end up the same way I did.” So, I quit my six-figure job with six figures of financial credit card debt. And I became a dog trainer. [Chuckles.] [Carrie affirms with a laugh.] Right after that, the dogs started talking to me. [Carrie reacts in surprise.] Like I started getting messages from the animals. And they were like, “We’re gonna teach you. You listen to us, and we’ll teach you.”

carrie

Mm. And how many years were you a dog trainer then?

lori

Well, I was a professional dog trainer for a little over two years, but what happened was I was overlapping that with animal communication, telepathy, and then I started incorporating the healing arts. All of my habits, all those things I mentioned, gone forever. Like, six figures in credit card debt was gone within two years. Sixty pounds of overweight body weight was gone within two years. All the excessive caffeine, the excessive smoking, 100% pharmaceutical drug free. Like, all the alcohol was gone. All the addictive behaviors for the most part were gone. It was all gone within two years. [Carrie reacts with surprise.] Because I righted my course. I aligned myself, my true mission and passion. Which is what I do now.

carrie

And so, before that switch—you’ve mentioned working in corporate America. What were you doing there?

lori

I was in business marketing. Well, first of all I worked in cable television for a long stint of it. And then I worked in, like, the internet. You know. Startups. And I was in event planning. I mean, I was hopping all over the place. I was just not rightly aligned.

carrie

Trying to find your calling, it sounds like. [Lori agrees.] You know, you mentioned being a dog trainer, but it also seems like—in a very big way—animals have always been sort of a part of your identity, going back even to childhood. And you tell this really wonderful story about SeaWorld—how you went to SeaWorld when you were seven, I think. Tell me about that!

lori

I was about seven years old. I remember going to SeaWorld for the first time. And I remember walking out of—it was the orca, you know, show. And I was holding my father’s hand and I remember saying, “That’s what I wanna do with my life. I wanna help animals.” And he said to me, “You can’t do that, because you won’t make any money at it.” [Carrie expresses surprise.] That was so pivotal, because that became the inner conflict. Do what you love or make money.

carrie

Oh, right. Yeah.

lori

Right. I had to reprogram my belief system, because that had such a strong impact—so to speak—on the beliefs that I carried through during those 20 years. It was like, “I have to make money. I have to make money. I have to make money.” And that’s just the slavedriver programming. And I definitely did have a very strong, real connection to animals on kind of like what I would call a—in a nonphysical reality—my whole life. Definitely. But not with any formal awareness or training like I knew what I doing until much later.

carrie

I really resonate with this because I’ve been an animal person my whole life. And I actually worked in animal rights for about seven years, before switching paths. Now, I’ve heard you talk about factory farming and it made me wonder if you’re a vegetarian.

lori

I don’t ever label myself that way. I would say I am mostly vegetarian, yes. I don't eat any animals, but sometimes I’ll eat a fish and the reason I actually will sometimes eat a fish is that in all my dialogue and conversations with animals, I’ve asked almost every animal species I could how they feel about being eaten. [Carrie hums in surprise.] Fish are the only animals—wild fish, like I literally have had conversations with fish who were, like, at the surface of water and the collective of fish—and they’ve all sort of answered in this kind of perplexed way like, “Huh? Well, we eat each other. What’s the big deal?”

carrie

Aah! Oh, interesting.

lori

When I heard that, I thought, “Well, okay. I can handle that, if they’re kind of like pole caught, and they’ve lived a good life. I don’t do it a lot. And I would say I am almost 100% because most of my nutrition, I do a lot of what I call sungazing. [Carrie affirms.] Literally breathing in and drinking in and imbibing the light of the sun, which has the capacity to fuel our body.

carrie

Really?

lori

Yeah. We can all be sungazers. As we learn how to breathe in the light and the breath of the divine, that feeds us. And so, the bulk of my nutrition comes from that, actually.

carrie

Is the goal to eventually eliminate regular food entirely?

lori

I think I’m just following my own divine course, but yeah, I would like to be a person who doesn’t really require that kind of substance. I do have a big, huge, raw green juice that I typically make with a slow-press juicer every day. So, that’s very nourishing. I do a lot of supplements, so I don’t really need a lot of nutritional food in that way. The other thing that’s really helpful is if people understand our unconscious has been programmed by our reptilian ancestors to believe that we need to eat animals to survive. Like, I’ve reprogrammed my own unconscious.

carrie

You also make a big point of saying, “Human are animals. We tend to differentiate and say, ‘Humans are over here, and animals are over here.’ But no, we are all animals.” Do you believe we have a common ancestor with the other animals, then?

lori

I know my stuff is really esoteric. It’s very out there. But I would say that we are an intergalactic species and an interdimensional species. That our DNA has codes—not only of all of our ancestors, which include what I would call reptilians, hybridized races from many intergalactic nations actually—it includes also our future generations of who we evolve into. So, the idea is to start reconnecting with both our ancestors and our future generations to awaken what’s most valuable within us. And to activate it.

carrie

And how far back do you think this goes? I mean, you always hear from scientists that the Earth is, you know, somewhere around four and half billion years old. How old do you think this all goes back?

lori

Well, I would say through eternity. So—‘cause the human brain doesn’t typically understand the concept of eternity. [Carrie agrees.] For eternity we have existed. And we have eternally morphed and evolved. And so, we’re at a peak evolutionary point right now of what we would call linear time. And during this peak evolutionary time, our most important task as a collective species or race is to remember who we are.

carrie

Mm. Who is it?

lori

We are the divine. We are all source. We’re representing ourselves as embodied humans and embodied beings. But in truth, we are witnesses peering in on our reality through our awareness. So, we are the awareness of ourselves waking up.

carrie

So, if this is a—you said this is a time when—I forget the words you used, but like a tipping point, kind of, of humanity. How finite is that? Do you think like this year? Like 2020 is a tipping point? Or is it like our generation? Or…?

lori

Well, what I would say is this year is one of the most pivotal years anyone alive at this time on earth will experience in their lives.

carrie

Oh, wow. Okay.

lori

So, if you’re in a really, really fear-based reality, think of it as a train. You know. That train is not really a train you wanna be on. [Carrie agrees.] If you’re in a love, joy, optimism, excitement-based reality, that’s kind of like a train that you wanna be on. ‘Cause the trains are leaving the station. In terms of—to answer your question—the finiteness, this year is most pivotal, however it will continue to be pivotal. Especially for those on the trains that are kind of going to joy, happiness, love, excitement, optimism, new beginnings, fresh starts, etc. Those trains will continue to be revealing more and more to us over the next certainly three years? Five years?

carrie

Okay. What do you think we can expect in those next few years?

lori

Well, provided that you’re vibrating and aligning with these opportunities of excitement, joy: more and more freedom, more liberation, more and more excitement. Things that are gonna be revealed to us like free energy. Nikolas Tesla’s dream that was—he was murdered for his dream that he tried to bring out. John F. Kennedy’s dream that he tried to bring out for humanity will be revealed. We will start to see the complete eradication of the pharmaceutical drug industry, which is just designed to keep people sick. We will begin to see a reality where fewer and fewer people get sick, including animals, because we understand the root cause of it is everywhere we’re out of alignment with love, joy, peace, happiness, etc. We will see the elimination of the old financial system, but in ways that feel good and right for us, that are so freeing and liberating. We’re seeing the beginning of it now. Like money just being handed back to the people with zero harm, ideally. And certainly, zero debt incurred. Debt meaning not only financial debt, but especially what we would refer to as karmic debt. And then if you continue to choose to serve and contribute to the greater good, however and best you’re able, and to be in the state of happiness, joy, peace, and love as best as you’re able, then you will be on the trains that you wanna be on.

carrie

One of your YouTube videos, just in the last month or so, you talked about this train analogy and it—or maybe it’s not even an analogy, [laughing] maybe this train fact—and it sounded like it actually came as a download, like you channeled it. Right?

lori

Yeah, I would say most of what I get is channeled. I don’t typically do learning in the left, analytical brain way. I tend to go into very—these kinds of peaceful, blissful states and then I’ll ask questions of my own higher team, benevolent beings, and also—especially when I have a large group of people with me or even animals together—for the greater good of all, information comes through to help support and assist us. And that’s where most of my learning and sharing comes from.

carrie

Do these people have names? Would I recognize any of these figures?

lori

Oh my god! You totally would. First of all, members of the animal kingdom always come through. Every collective species, like subkingdoms of the animals, they come through and they share all kinds of wisdom. Then, of course, we have tons of those ascended masters, who you know who they are. Serapis Bey, Jesus, Buddha, Krishna. They’re ascended masters, which means that they learned how to maintain their consciousness. Sananda, Enoch, I mean—well, Enoch’s an angel. Metatron. We have angels and angel gods. They’re all different classifications of angels and angel gods. Archangels. They come through. Divine goddesses, they come through. And they’re able to traverse these dimensions of time, space, and communicate with us into the physical world. But we have to become vibrationally compatible. So, in other words, to a person who thinks it’s crazy? It won’t happen for them. Unless they decide to change their viewpoint and want to learn more and be willing. To a person who’s like, “Hey, I don’t really know about that but I’m willing to learn,” they get to open the door. Like right now, there’s a door opening in a sense. And then to people who know it’s possible and are already exploring it, we’re already having those experiences.

carrie

And you mentioned that when your brother passed away, you heard from him. Do you still hear from him?

lori

Well, that’s another perfect example. Our loved ones who have crossed over, we can easily interact with them, too. And yes, I do get a lot of downloads and interactions with them. My loved ones, including my brother. Although, not as often with my brother, unless I actively kind of seek him out. From what I know, he has sort of moved on. Like, a few years ago I went to tune into him, and I got this incredible download, awareness, interaction with him that he told me that he had come back as an aborted fetus.

carrie

[Shocked.] Oh! Wow.

lori

The reason he chose that for himself was because the woman who ultimately did abort him—was that she was very religious and spiritual and she was so conflicted, but it was the right—ultimately, the right choice. So, he learned from her how to value life. [Carrie reacts with surprise.] Because when he was alive, he had not valued his life. Isn’t that fascinating?

carrie

That is fascinating. And I’ve heard you mention that we all sort of pick the moment that we die, whether we know we’re doing that or not. Right?

lori

Yeah, we do. Although we have—and this is true for animals too—we have lots of what I would call exit windows. So, it’s not like you only have one moment. You have multiple choice points where a window will sort of open up to you, if you’re ready to leave. Then you can make those choices. So—but yes.

carrie

Gotcha. When I first heard you speak, at Conscious Life Expo, I think I remember you saying that theoretically we could choose to be immortal.

lori

Well, we are immortal beings. We absolutely are. The question is, our physicality is not, at this time—is not immortal. Our physical experience in this embodiment, in this lifetime, is not—to the best of my knowledge, that’s not yet available to us. However, that is becoming more and more available to us because we are learning how to work with our DNA. We’re learning how to replenish the infinite energy of source, creator, God, the divine, holy spirit, whatever we call it. And we’re learning to remove the aging programs. I mean, I’ve been playing with this for a while. So, we have all kinds of aging programs in our unconscious and programs and patterns stored up in our DNA that have to be resolved and removed. Plus, all fear of death and all resistance to it. That has to be resolved before we can really change our so-called death patterns in humanity.

carrie

Yeah. Do you see any difference in yourself or in your body since you’ve been doing that?

lori

Yeah! For me, I absolutely do. I mean, I don’t associate with a linear age in the same way that most humans do. And in fact, the kind of energy that I have and the kind of vitality and the ability to change physical experiences is completely different. So, you wouldn’t necessarily know it from the external, but internally—yes. You could sort of compare, in chronology, different people with their ages and you’d see how different it is for someone like me.

carrie

You mentioned DNA. So, I wanna get to that because that’s the first encounter I had with you, was that I went to the Conscious Life Expo and I went to your talk about DNA. So, you call yourself a DNA activator, is that right?

lori

Yeah, that’s a good way to explain it.

carrie

And my understanding—and I’m sure you can correct this and say it better, but my understanding is we all have these codes in our DNA—some in those two strands of DNA we all know and then some in additional, hidden, unknown to science strands—that sort of program us to have different diseases and different life experiences and they can be deprogrammed. Is that right?

lori

Yeah. Well, here’s how I would say it. Your first two strands—those are the first two strands that humans have been actively engaged with. Those strands basically are the records of our ancestors and our genetics. And to me, from my perspective and everything I do as a DNA activator, is that those are basically corrupted for the most part. And why do we call them corrupted? ‘Cause they include disease and they include, you know, like death. And they include all kinds of malefic types of things that happen to us. You know. Suffering. Pain. They include patterns and programs of lack, limitation, aging. You know, all that stuff. So, that can be completely reprogrammed. And this what epigenetics is starting to study. Now, beyond the first two strands, we know we have ten more strands of what has previously called junk or dormant, which we could also call uncoded. [Carrie affirms with a thoughtful hum.] Those ten strands have all of our gifts. We’re all intuitive. We’re all healers. We all have an original divine blueprint for perfect and ideal health and wellbeing. We have programs and patterns in there for rediscovering and reclaiming our divinity, our true authentic nature, our divine mission. On and on. We are all psychic. We’re all gifted. Incredible, superpowers are lying dormant in those ten strands of DNA. The western world wants our DNA so much, because they’re trying to figure this out for themselves.

carrie

So, there’s the two that Watson and Crick [laughing] or whoever discovered and then there are ten more that are in the spiritual realm?

lori

No, they’re physical. [Carrie affirms.] But they’ve been called junk up until 2012.

carrie

Got it.

lori

And in 2012, enough scientists with enough credibility declared, finally—when science declares it, suddenly we think it’s true. [Carrie chuckles.] They declared, you know, there’s enough credible scientific journals where it was published and made credible that the other ten strands are not junk, but rather dormant.

carrie

Okay. I thought junk DNA was still, at least like in the scientific understanding, I thought it was still on those original two strands. It was just the pieces of it that aren’t doing anything. Is that wrong?

lori

Well, I would tell you I don’t study science. I can’t speak for the scientists that way. I can tell you that the first two strands are active strands. But they’re corrupted. They’re blueprints that are basically being read that are telling, “Oh, I have blonde hair. I have blue eyes. I have this or that in my lineage.” I mean, it’s not corrupted if you have blue eyes, but it’s corrupted if you think you have breast cancer and that the only way that you can heal from the breast cancer is to slice off your breasts, which is complete ridiculousness. They’re corrupted if you think that you have some form of cancer or disease that your doctor is telling you is unhealable without putting more poison into your arms. That’s not even true, real, right, or accurate. And yet, our western society believes that it’s real. From my vantage point, it’s insanity. It’s crazy to think that you can’t heal from diabetes. I had diabetes in my family lineage. I cleared it all out.

carrie

Wow, and is—is everybody okay now?

lori

Yeah! They—yeah! They don’t even know! It’s not even a factor. [Carrie laughs.] Just recently I was working on dropping pounds, right? I dropped something like 35 pounds by searching into my own DNA to figure out what is blocking me from dropping this last 35 pounds. So, I start searching in my own DNA, looking. Well, it’s linked into the diabetes. It’s linked into a belief system that sugar had power over me. I cleared that belief system. In two months, I dropped 35 pounds.

carrie

Wow! Congrats!

lori

Yeah! It just melted away!

carrie

When was that?

lori

This was in the last year.

carrie

When did you start doing the sungazing?

lori

I started doing that probably within the last three years. And it’s a slow evolution. [Carrie affirms.] Some of it is so intuitive. We’re awakening our intuitive knowings. And we’re—what we’re doing is we’re reclaiming our own personal power within ourselves so that we no longer give consent to some outside authority to tell us its crazy. ‘Cause if I went to a western doctor, you know, I’m not berating western medicine or western doctors—‘cause if I had a broken leg, which I never—probably wouldn’t get, ‘cause I’m so aligned with my mission—but if I had a—like, I would do that. But my point is—is like, we’re reclaiming our power, our sovereignty, and our authority within our own intuitive knowing, to know what’s best for ourself and to start playing with it and working with it and unlocking it and revealing it to ourselves so that we are just so amazed by what we’re uncovering. Nobody ever taught me breathairianism. Nobody ever taught me sungazing.

carrie

Mm! And you had never even heard of it before.

lori

I had heard of breathairianism and sungazing, but it—when I first started hearing about it, it was like something other people did. I—it was the same thing as anyone who’s hearing about it from me, right now.

carrie

Oh right. Yeah, good point.

lori

It was that kind of thing. I never took a class in it or a workshop, but I wouldn’t tell someone to stare into the bright sun, that’s not what I’m saying. [Carrie agrees with a laugh.] I’m not saying that at all. I learned how to do it intuitively, I followed my own guidance. I do teach how to do it in my classes, but not like—it’s not a workshop I do. It’s all intuitive.

carrie

And you mentioned that you have a school. So, now you’re teaching people to do the same sort of thing?

lori

I do all of this online in webinars and then of course I do lead sacred retreats, in person, when we’re able to travel. Like, my next retreat will be a sacred crystal retreat in Arkansas. That’s in September. And so, the school is really all about teaching this so people can do DNA activations through webinar and they get these codes activated in them and they start learning and unpacking this stuff for themselves. They can also come to a retreat—like, the one in Arkansas that’s coming up in September, we work with the crystals. Literally in a group where we’re just comradery, you know? We’re just having fun. We’re playing with this, but the crystals are storing up codes for us as well. So, they’re like time capsules. And when we learn to work with them and communicate with them and interact with them, they support us in activating our own dormant potential. They have codes for the DNA to help us activate that in ourselves.

carrie

Have any of these people experienced physical healings?

lori

Oh my god! Endless. I have people who have recovered large amounts from their Parkinson’s. There’s one client who had to have, like, a full hysterectomy. She never had to have it after the healings. She still comes on retreats and does all my classes and workshops. I’ve had animals who doctors thought that they had to severe their limbs and they didn’t have to. They had, like, what we would call miracle healings, yeah.

carrie

Can you see those illnesses as well? I know some medical intuitives can, like, spot disease in people.

lori

Well, what I can do is scan a body on request. So, I wont do anything without conscious consent, but if a body has something in there, I can scan the body and see. And all of that—like I said, that can be cleared out. So, yeah, I can scan bodies and see that. We can all do it.

carrie

Yeah?

lori

We’ve been massively brainwashed. I will use the word brainwash. We’ve been mind-manipulated to believe that we can’t. And we’ve done it to ourselves. So, there’s no wrongness here. It’s just—you know, if you’re watching the nightly news and every five minutes a commercial comes on telling you with some sad song about how, you know, poor you, oh you’ve got this disease. You’ve got that. Oh, poor you! And it’s playing this sad, melancholy music. And then you just get emotionally drawn into that and you start believing that stuff is true from pharmaceutical drug industries and then news telling you that there’s just nothing but misery and suffering in the world. That stuff is energetically interacting with us. And the only way to reprogram ourselves, essentially, is to completely disentangle from that by refusing to give your consciousness to it. In fact, even if you look at the state of world affairs right now, humanity has believed that there is a state of emergency, but in my reality we realize there is a state of immunity.

carrie

Oh, tell me about that. I assume you’re talking about the COVID-19 pandemic.

lori

Every human—in every animal’s DNA, there are dormant codes for immunity and imperviousness. Now, those codes have to be fully activated. When they are activated, you will know—whoever you are—when you really have them activated and you’ve cleared out what’s entangled that would in any way, shape, or form make that crazy, impossible, untrue, ridiculous, unfathomable—like, all that unconscious stuff. You would walk around right now knowing—absolutely knowing that you are immune and impervious to it. However, you would also not be so foolish to throw caution to the wind and stand in front of someone who’s coughing at you, ‘cause you’re not an idiot either. You’re smart, you’re wise, you’ve got your wisdom, your left brain is active. So, you have analytical thinking. Your right brain is active because you’ll have total awareness or really a lot of awareness and your heart center will be very active, so you have emotional intelligence. You have the ability to think critically in an intelligent way with wisdom, with heart-centered awareness and your gut brain is active too. So, you’re gut knows what’s good and right and real.

carrie

Hm. I’m trying to wrap my head around if I were confident that I was immune, I would think I would then go help people who are sick and I probably would go stand in front of the person who’s coughing if I were completely sure I wouldn’t get it.

lori

It’s just like you said, Carrie. You’re trying to wrap your brain around it, but when it’s unlocked and activated in your DNA, you don’t have to wrap your brain around it. It becomes part of your knowing. Because that’s when the left analytical brain is overworking. This is so beyond the capacity of the limitations of the left analytical brain.

carrie

Mm, okay, so this is more about intuition.

lori

It’s better than just intuition alone, because we have brain matter in our heart that makes us so much more conscious and aware. And we also start activating gut matter in our gut—gut brain. We literally have brain matter in our guts and in our hearts. So, most humans, we’re not using that. Most animals already are. Once that starts to happen, in combination with awakening these codes in the DNA, then you can absolutely know—K-N-O-W—that you are immune and impervious to this kind of stuff.

ross blocher

O-kay. Brain matter in your gut. Got it. I guess she’s referring to the enteric nervous system. Oh! Hey, everybody! Sorry to interrupt here. I’m enjoying this conversation as much as you are, but I thought it was important for me just to chime in just for a moment to tell you about Squarespace. Because you may be a graphic designer or a furniture maker or maybe you’re a museum or a record label. Maybe you’re a clothing designer. Whatever you are or do or where you work, perhaps you need to make a website. That is the way that we communicate our goods, our services, our projects, our exciting events coming up. It’s the way we blog or publish content. And you might be looking for a place to create said content. If so, look no farther than Squarespace! Squarespace gives you access to beautiful templates created by world class designers, powerful eCommerce functionality, a new way to buy domains and choose from over 200 extensions. Also, 24/7 award winning customer support. And—one thing I really like about Squarespace—is that you can just go there, play around with the tools. It’s all web-based. You don’t need to download any special software or anything. It’s all right there, in your browser. And you get to try it out, see if you like it, even name your site and start building it. And only then—once you’ve realized, “Yeah! This is great for me!”—only then do you make the move and say, “Let’s actually sign up for this. Let’s make it real. Let’s put it out in the world.” So, the way to do that is to check out Squarespace.com/ohno, O-H-N-O, for a free trial and when you’re ready to launch, use the offer code “ohno”, O-H-N-O, to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That’s it! That’s all I wanted to tell you. Let’s go back to Carrie and Lori.

carrie

One of the things that I really like about you, Lori, is that I’ve heard you say, “Truth is a real thing.” You know, we hear some teachers talk about truth as different for everybody. You’ve said, like, “Well, there are some things that are just true! Like gravity. And if you don’t believe in them, good for you [laughs] but it’s still the truth.” And you even said when you got into this work, your big goal was to know the truth. How do you define truth?

lori

Yeah, this is awesome. So, first I wanna say that truth is perspective, because every perspective is a perspective that can be true according to that person or animal’s perspective. So, in that sense, everything can be true. However, in the search for truth—and this is one of the most important things, I think, for humanity to understand, is that ultimately everything is true, and nothing is true, based on perspective, energy, and vibration. But ultimately, there are really only very few truths. Absolute truths. And those absolute truths you discover through the inquiry of exploring what’s true, real, right, and what’s not true. So, for example, cause and effect. You can deny cause and effect, but it doesn’t matter if you deny it. [Carrie agrees.] Like, gravity is a law of nature. It’s not universally true, but if you deny that it’s true, well then you’re just in la la land. [Carrie agrees with a laugh.] There are laws of nature in the physical world and they are real. If you move beyond the physical world, they’re not as real. You cannot move beyond our reality in quantum physics or laws of the universe. Those are true. They’re upheld in what I would say is the sixth dimensional reality—which is beyond our human experience. Quantum physics validates them. Those laws of the universe, for example, cause and effect. For example, synchronicity. For example, the law of attraction. For example, the law of radiation. Those are real laws. And it doesn’t matter if you believe in them or not. They’re real. They uphold all other reality.

carrie

What about the person who says, you know, you should be checking this against the evidence?

lori

Well, I don’t really care about those people, because I tend to think they’re quite ignorant. It’s not that I don’t care about them. I love them. I embrace them. But I don’t need to prove anything to anybody. My job is to discover for myself what I know to be true, real, and right, and accurate, and to do my absolute, very best to be true, real, right, and accurate. And to share that with others. So, if someone’s a skeptic, I mean they have every right to find out for themselves. Have at it! [Carrie laughs.] Go figure it out for yourself, then.

carrie

If someone listening is kind of still—this is their first time dipping their toe into these kinds of subjects, what kind of sources can they start with? ‘Cause I know you’ve talked about the mainstream media not being so useful. So, where should they turn for this kind of information?

lori

Well, let me say—with respect to that—that’s different. That’s not a skeptic. When someone comes forward with true inquiry—in that inquiry—like, “Okay, I wanna learn more. I’m not sure. I don’t know what I don’t know,” that is a beautiful thing. Those—that’s my tribe.

carrie

Yeeeah. Me too.

lori

I love that. ‘Cause I am that person. I wanna know. I don’t know what I don’t know. I only know what I’ve discovered already and have tested and validated so many times that I’m that certain of it. But there’s infinite capacity to learn and to grow and to evolve. And learn more. And I love that kind of inquiry. So, I mean the first place I’d send people is my website, my YouTube. Those are great places to start. And then you have to learn buzzwords. But if you just google the word “dormant DNA” or “starseed”. What is a starseed? But just searching that word will uncover a lot for you. Another one: search the words “fifth dimension”. ‘Cause all I teach about is about evolving out of 3D. Which is the old paradigm. And evolving into and beyond 5D, or the fifth dimension. People can search that and discover. And once you start learning some of these buzzwords, that really will help you. And then the other key thing I would really recommend is to—you have to have an open mind. You have to be inquiry. Because you’re gonna find a lot of stuff that’s junk. [Carrie agrees several times.] It’s just someone’s perspective. You have to be willing to really sort through a lot of junk and a lot of good stuff and then develop your discerning.

carrie

Yeah, god, that’s the hard part though, right? How do you tell the good stuff from the bad stuff?

lori

You don’t be in a rush to try to know the answer. [Carrie hums an affirmation several times.] You start engaging the critical thinking that is more inquiry. What makes this true?

carrie

I love that. Do you also apply that to looking at the other side of whatever issue you’re investigating?

lori

Well, when you say look at the other side, I mean what lights up for me—I’m not sure exactly what you mean by that—is polarity. So, if one polarized experience exists, so does the other polarized experience. For me, I’ve come to learn that the way to resolve those issues is to come into the divine neutral, which is to understand that all exists and both polarized views exist. And again, not one is necessarily or absolutely right or true or real. Both can coexist. Both are in harmony with regard to polarity. And I think my answer to your question, if I understand it, is do I explore all sides of things? Yes.

carrie

Yeah, there are sort of two sides to every story, but usually one is more right than the other. You know?

lori

It is true that there are some things that just aren’t really true. So, yes. You’re right about that, in that sense. I mean, one of the things that’s really helped me so much is the law of truth. So, there is a law of physics—and I don’t know how physics would call it, but it upholds truths. It upholds what is true. ‘Cause they’re conscious of themselves, as laws. And they exist on the sixth dimensional plane. I can go straight to a law and say, “Is this true?” Once you learn how to work with truths, this—that’s a very advanced concept, right? But it will validate things for you. It will show you how things are true. Part of knowing what’s true is that it will always uplift you, advance you, inspire you, or somehow expand your awareness. By contrast, go to the nightly news five minutes and it will shrink you, diminish you, make you smaller, make you fearful. It’ll reduce you. It’ll make you less than you are. It’ll contract. Your body will get tense, tight, stressed, full of anxiety. Those are gonna be lies. [Carrie hums skeptically.] Just start tuning into your body. And even with your mind when you get in relationship challenges with any person, place, or thing. Group or organization. If you feel somehow reduced or made smaller or less than, typically that is an unhealthy or what I would call an unholy relationship, because it’s reducing you. The truth of humanity is that we are absolutely at our core meant to be 100% healthy, whole, and living in our most ideal state of health and wellbeing.

carrie

What—[sighs]. I don’t know. My ancestors only lived to be like 30. [Laughs.] You know? And—

lori

You’re storing something up in your DNA that believes that limitation.

carrie

Oh, so do you think then that my ancestors died at that age because they saw their peers die at that age?

lori

Well, what I’m saying is that we’re at a new point in time and space, in humanity’s evolution, where everything that was true is no longer really true. And it’s up to us to unpack it. So, our ancestors—they typically—what they did was they went through experiences in what we call unconscious, and because they were unconscious, their traumas, their dramas, their upsets, their death, their disease, that unconsciousness was stored up as—what I call them is corrupted records. We don’t realize that’s just a corrupted program in the DNA, a gift that we don’t see what’s inside the gift! We have to unwrap it and realize, “Oh! That’s ‘cause they didn’t realize their potential!”

carrie

Hm. Why did the human—the upper end of the human lifespan increase so much around when we started to develop things like antibiotics?

lori

I mean, there’s a lot of reasons for that. Number one, humans chose it. Humans wanted to extend our lives. There were a bazillion things that happened. Like, when you’re creating that cause-effect—in your mind, Carrie, the cause and effect relationship of life extension is, “Oh, we just started adding more antibiotics. We started adding more pharmaceutical drugs.” And you, Carrie, through what you just said are revealing that you have a believe system that that is why it happened. And what I’m saying is I don’t agree that that’s why it happened. [Carrie affirms.] That was one participating factor that may or may not have been the cause to the effect.

carrie

Oh, I don’t think it’s the only reason it happened. Yeah.

lori

But ultimately, it was because human consciousness chose to extend our lives. A million other things happened. We started exercising more. Play was good. Breathing in was good. A gazillion factors contributed to it. [Carrie agrees.] It’s because we chose it.

carrie

I know you have to go soon. I wanna ask you about money. Do you have time for that? ‘Cause this is one of your topics that you talk about on the channel and you even wrote a book about it. It seems like a lot of people ask you about sort of feeling disempowered in their financial situation, yeah?

lori

Well, the thing is, in the old paradigm—this third dimensional paradigm that we’re evolving out of—we have believed that money is limited. And we have believed that we have to earn our money by working for it and typically we have to work for someone else who controls our money—whether it’s a boss, an organization, a 401k, an IRS, the stock market, or whatever. Somehow we have to get our money from this kind of external source that has power over us. In reality, the new paradigm, our source of supply is our connection with the divine. [Carrie hums.] And that is a limitless source of supply. The law of infinite supply—which is a law of the universe—which works in collaboration with synchronicity, cause and effect, and—think about this, law of radiation. So, let’s just take a dollar and give it out freely, joyfully. Law of radiation says, “Oh, she just radiated in here. She’s radiating out a dollar.” And now, law of attraction says, “Oh! She’s gonna attract it back to her, immediately.” Because it was circulated out, radiated out, joyfully supplied, joyfully given, joyfully multiplied. These are all laws of the universe. And attracted back to her. You see? When we understand the true dynamics of reality, in the new paradigm, and the infinite supply that’s coming from our connection with this source, our whole reality with respect to money, abundance, wealth, prosperity, etc.—it all changes.

carrie

All a mindset. I actually read your eBook about this—The Secret Energy of Money. And—

lori

Oh, awesome.

carrie

And you put it really well. You said, “The only reason you haven’t had as much money as you would’ve wanted is because you’ve somehow been walking around in a daze and therefore created a sense of lack in your own life.”

lori

Wow, that’s awesome! Thank you for reading that to me! I wrote that book quite a while ago. So. [Carrie laughs.] Sounds totally like me. That’s so me. “You’ve created a sense of lack in your life.” It’s true. I like to ask people in my classes and stuff like, “Where does your money come from?” [Carrie agrees.] People who haven’t heard me will say things like, “Well, I get it from my inheritance or my father or my mother or my sister or my boss or my job.” The ones who know me—I can always tell, ‘cause they’ll always say, “Source.” And through developing and strengthening your connection with that source, and through the expansion of your consciousness, your awareness as you are that source—and as you come into alignment with these higher knowings, you’ll never have fear of money again.

carrie

And you talk in the book about how tithing is an important component of this—giving approximately 10% of our income just to say, “Hey, source. Here I am. I believe in you. If you believe in me [laughs]—.” And then it kind of comes back tenfold. But one thing that surprised me, in the eBook, is that you said—or you suggested maybe not donating those to nonprofits. Could you kind of explain your thinking there?

lori

Two factors in that: the idea that you’re giving to charity or a not for profit cannot come from the old set of belief systems that there’s lack in the world. So, if you’re donating to a not for profit, it has to come from your belief system and your knowing that you believe in the organization and that the divine is working through that organization in such a glorious and magnificent way that it’s expanding and uplifting you. Because if you’re giving to lack or poverty or limitation, that’s not the way to celebrate the divine. That’s not a tithe. A tithe is ten. It’s giving to the divine to recognize that the divine is your source and your supply. So, therefore you must give to the—you know, whatever glorifies you. So, when I first was working and learning this stuff, in my very early days of starting my own business as a spiritual healer and as an animal communicator, one of the things that gave me the greatest joy was to go to little animal charities and play with the animals and give them reiki. And I would do it out of joy! Not because I felt pity or sorrow. I felt more joyful. I developed my reiki and my healing. I expanded. And so, I would donate there. But not because, you know, “Ooh, it’s so sad. These poor animals. Sarah McLachlan song—‘in the arms an angel’, be depressed.” No! It was joy that inspired the giving. [Carrie hums in affirmation.] That’s what I mean about—you just have to be mindful. I would say, and I mean, you have free will to do whatever you want. But I’ll use this word—I would not recommend donating to any charity or organization that tells you sad stories, horrible things, shows you pain and suffering, you know—death and disease. Horrible death, oh my god. That is not where you give your tithe to, because then you’re feeding and telling the universe basically that you want more of that. Plus, you want to nourish those charities that really are focusing on the good.

carrie

I feel like you could frame any charity that way. Right? Like you could say, “Oh, they’re not combating hunger. They’re giving meals.” Or—you know?

lori

I mean, I guess that if that’s your perspective. That’s not my perspective. By the way, it’s also important to use your discernment, because right now all your old charities are mostly corrupted. The vast majority of charities are completely corrupted.

carrie

Really?

lori

A lot of those animal ones, sadly they’re corrupted. You have to do your research. Children’s hospitals, most of them are using them as testing. They just go in there and they test on children. This is upsetting stuff.

carrie

Yeah—where’s a good place to research about that?

lori

Well, you have to go on the internet and search. You know, search for credibility. What are they doing with their funds? Who’s at the realms and the heads of them. But as you become more and more intuitive and you awake your gifts, you’re gonna know. But all those pink ribbon ones—they’re not helping people. They’re just siphoning off their money. You’ll see, this one I do know, over the next couple of years. I’m—in my reality, and as far as I know, this is happening—going to happen for the whole of humanity, the pharmaceutical drug industry is going to be exposed. So, anything that’s kept people sick and in a perpetual state of fighting cancer or fighting this disease or fighting that disease, no. They’re not gonna survive through. They’re corrupted.

carrie

You think those industries will dismantle?

lori

Yes. Within the next few years. And be replaced, just as quickly. Like, at the same time. You’re not gonna miss them. Because so much better is gonna come through.

carrie

Okay, just jumping back to the financial thing. Oh—one thing that you mentioned in your book is that you eliminated over $100,000 in bad debt. How did you do that?

lori

At the time, I was trying to get free. This was all before that 2008 economic collapse. So, I was going to banks back then and trying to negotiate and they just weren’t having it. They weren’t interested. So, I—where was I gonna go? I went to the divine. I literally was, like, praying. “Help me. What am I gonna do? I’ve tried everything.” And what I was told, by my own guidance and my connection with source, was—number one, start practicing forgiveness. So, I started forgiving the banks. And one of the earliest things that started happening was that the banks started sending me forgiveness of debt letters. I mean, that was a real miracle, Carrie! “Your $7000 debt with this institution is forgiven.” I couldn’t—I mean, it was shocking!

carrie

And you didn’t have to file bankruptcy or anything?

lori

No. [Carrie expresses surprise.] And that was part of it. And then there was monies that came through that helped me pay off some of it, which was amazing. I—so, it’s just like, I was doing the inner work with the divine.

carrie

And in your book, you also reframe the concept of a millionaire, which has become sort of a bad word in our culture, right? You hear, “Billionaires shouldn’t exist. Millionaires shouldn’t exist.” But you reframe it as, like, “No, you’re just—you’re owning your own abundance.” And that made me wonder, are you—can I ask this? Are you a millionaire, yet?

lori

Oh, I’m not a millionaire in that sense. [Carrie affirms.] But what I would say is that I have so much more than I can possibly imagine. One of the things I teach about, which is not in that book—but I do teach about this and I definitely do, I have YouTube videos on it—is—are benefactors. Because as we level up into a 5D reality, we all have benefactors—things that we never imagined. Like, trust funds become available to us that we just didn’t know we had. [Carrie murmurs a soft, “oh.”] Not all of us! But, I mean, it depends. We all have our own journeys. Do you understand?

carrie

I—so, did a trust fund come through for you? Is that what you’re saying?

lori

Not in a way that a left analytical brain would perceive it, but yes. And I have benefactors who have supported and assisted me on the journey. And we all have benefactors. And benefactors are always both parties or all of the parties benefit. And it’s always in ways that are aligned with integrity and for the good of all, with harm to none.

carrie

What do you say to the person who’s listening to this and says, “Someone else is just footing her bills.”?

lori

Yeah, well, I didn’t have that when I lost everything. I didn’t have that while I was working corporate America, slaving away. I didn’t have that while I was miserable. I didn’t have that while I was trying to do it myself. I didn’t have that. It was not revealed to me until I got online and started following what I’m teaching here. See, I was meant to be a spiritual teacher and healer and to do the work that I’m doing. So, the universe is completely supporting me. I’m just saying, when you’re aligned with your mission—what’s right for you—you will have so much abundance. What I need and want is supplied for me.

carrie

Did you grow up in poverty or did you grow up in wealth?

lori

I actually grew up in a family where there was gas/break mentality. “We have it, we don’t have it. Spent—oh, we gotta pull back. Gas, break. Gas, break.” And actually, my family lineage, I would say, was quite poor. My grandfather was a metalworker who came over on the boat, went through Ellis Island. You know. An Italian metalworker. And my mother’s side, they were all poor. So, my lineage was very poor and if I—you know, for those of you who are into past lifetimes, I would say I’ve lived almost every lifetime poor. A nun. As a [inaudible]. You know. Witch. I mean, all those kinds of lifetimes. You know. I have a lifetime of a kind of Norma Rae type of character. [Carrie chuckles.] Even those [inaudible] we had, because my father worked and he created his wealth himself, but it was always gas/break.

carrie

So, then your father isn’t the CEO of a marketing firm?

lori

No, he is the CEO of a marketing firm.

carrie

Oh, okay. And does he have a $3,000,000 house, in New York?

lori

No. I think, Carrie, maybe you’re getting a little personal. But—maybe for me. And I think maybe I would rather not go down my family lineage. But my father is his own business corporation. Yes. He does work.

carrie

Okay. Is he one of those benefactors?

lori

So—and I would rather keep this out of it. ‘Cause I don’t think this is public information. You know what I mean?

carrie

Uuum. Hm.

lori

‘Cause I don’t—I—my family’s story is their story. So—and I don’t think that, when you get—start getting into that stuff—that’s appropriate for right now. That’s their story.

carrie

Okay. I don’t know. I mean, you said you were an open book, so.

lori

My family has, to varying degrees, helped—just sounds like you’ve done research on my personal story that maybe isn’t appropriate for right here and right now. But what I will say is that my family has been one of those triggering people—groups, who have, to some degree, really helped me and to other degrees really hurt me. That’s been part of my journey. The other thing I will say, too, is like—that was part of my own karmic work to do. So. With that, though, I do need to go. [Inaudible.]

carrie

Sorry.

lori

I have a class that I’m teaching.

carrie

Can I ask you one more question?

lori

I just wanna thank you so much for having me, Carrie.

carrie

Oh, yeah! Of course! And your nonprofit—Efil’s God, is that an okay one for people to donate to?

lori

Yeah, I mean, it’s a not—a is a registered not for profit and that’s—that is what I do. So, yeah. And I’d love to—

carrie

So, why can’t—

lori

And I’d love to—I’d love to just mention my website. LoriSpagna.com. I’m happy to have people learn more and they can always go to the website, LoriSpagna.com, and there’s lots of free gifts there and lots of great things they can learn about.

carrie

Yeah, they can learn how to get rich and fix their DNA.

lori

Yeah, I would say also—just to be clear, Carrie—my work is not about teaching people to get rich. I’m not teaching millionaire stuff. That’s not where I go. I’m teaching spiritual lesson and how to resolve things, spiritually. You went down that, and I went down that lane with you.

carrie

Mm-hm. Well, you wrote—you wrote a whole book about it. [Laughs.]

lori

I wrote a book about it, yeah. It’s—money is part of our life. My mission is not about money. My mission is about using all the tools of source: spiritual enlightenment, spiritual wisdom, etc., to help people to awaken. To help people come into—money’s just one teeny little piece. And it’s such a small piece. It’s so relatively insignificant, compared to all the things there are to grow, to expand, to learn. You were willing to talk about it, that that was important to you, I went there with it.

carrie

Yeah, thank you.

lori

And I’m—I don’t mind talking about it, but that’s not my true mission. And when you start bringing in my parents and their story, it’s not related.

carrie

I guess just if you’re telling people that their mindset is what’s relevant, then it’s relevant where your mindset came from, right? Like, I can—I can understand why you don’t have an attitude of lack, why you don’t have a mindset of lack, if you know—you were born into wealth.

lori

Well, I wouldn’t say I was born into wealth and that’s not the conversation we had. I would say I was born into more poverty. That’s what I would say. There was gas/break mentality.

carrie

[Skeptically.] Mm-hm.

lori

So, I think I made that clear and I’m not sure why this is so important to you, in that sense. But—

carrie

Well, because it’s something that you teach about.

lori

I really have to go, ‘cause I have to get ready for class. [Music fades in.]

carrie

Okay. I understand. Thank you so much, Lori.

lori

Thanks so much. Bye-bye.

carrie

Bye.

music

“Oh No, Ross and Carrie! Theme Song” by Brian Keith Dalton. A jaunty, upbeat instrumental.

carrie

There you have it. Thank you to Lori Spagna for staying on the phone with me, talking out some really difficult questions toward the end there. Our conversation was challenging for me, because Lori and I see the world very differently. But I think there’s a lesson here about exposure, about people like me being willing to expose ourselves to conversations that are difficult, but that help us understand other people’s perspectives. And for people like Lori, exposing yourself to conversations that will challenge your claims, challenge your beliefs. If your life has been mostly marked by privilege, as mine has, or if it’s been mostly marked by wealth—if your society has cushioned you from disease through herd immunity or policy makers, and scientists have built a protective scaffolding around your society so that your life is hundreds of times better than your ancestors of just a couple generations ago. I mean that’s the experience for a lot of white, upper class people in America. So, if that’s you, then your perspective is limited by your privilege. And all of us have limited perspectives. So, knowing the backstory of this teacher who claims to be blowing open all our previous notions about truth—I think that backstory really matters. In a recent YouTube interview, Lori called this pandemic, “A wonderful time out that has been offered to us by the divine.” And she said, “We have all our needs met.” Meanwhile, the United Nations just said that the expected number of hunger related deaths will double, this year, due to this pandemic. If you don’t intentionally expose yourself to the world beyond the echo chamber of the internet or your social group or your personal history, you can miss quite a lot. You’ll also recall that Lori said she doesn’t do science. Maybe that doesn’t come as a surprise, but it kind of does to me, because she’s talking about stuff like DNA strands, things that we didn’t even know about until pretty recently. Right? The same year we got color TV. 1953. That’s the year we learned about the double helix. And only because of science. But nevertheless, she says science backs her up on some of her claims, and especially around things like quantum physics. So, to check on that backup, I reached out to Jason Rosenhouse—he’s a professor at James Madison University. He has a PhD in mathematics from Dartmouth. If you’re hearing mathematics and thinking, “What? What’s that got to do with it?” Quantum physics is deeply intertwined with math. So, I sent him four of Lori’s statements about the laws of physics, which she says science upholds.

carrie

So, Dr. Rosenhouse very politely replied, “You know, there’s an expression in science that I like. ‘Some ideas are so bad, they’re not even wrong.’” [Laughs.] And he said, “I think that applies here. Those quotes are almost complete gibberish. It’s hard to discern even what she intends to say, much less try to correct it.” But then he tried. He noted in particular that Lori, “Begins from a rational place. She says that we’re all bound by physical laws and by the truth.” Then he went on, “But her list of laws is very strange. Cause and effect? That’s not a law. I’ve never heard of the laws of circulation or radiation. I don’t know what she means by synchronicity. I have no idea, even, what it could possibly mean to say there was a law of physics that upholds truth.” He actually suggested that that she made up from whole cloth. So, Dr. Rosenhouse closed his email with this. He said, “There’s a whole industry of people just trying to make a quick buck by taking advantage of people’s ignorance of science. And, as we’re seeing in the middle of the COVID-19 pandemic, scientific ignorance gets people killed. This stuff is serious business.” So, as you know, Lori and I also entered our conversation by talking about finances and about her personal background in that way. And, by the way, sure it took some research to figure out her family’s story, but it’s hardly private information. And yes, they own a $3,000,000 mansion on a private waterfront, in New York. And without going into too much detail, there’s scant evidence that Lori was ever without this sort of financial parachute. And listen, lots of people grow up in wealthy families and they learn something from their parents about wealth and investment or business. And maybe they go on to teach about that or to write books about that. But Lori paints herself as something completely different—someone who grew up in poverty but turned things around almost entirely by her mindset. But in our conversation, Lori was pretty adamant that getting rich isn’t a major part of her teaching, that she isn’t here to teach people to get rich. So, I went back to her eBook—The Secret Energy of Money and the Spiritual Laws of Wealth Abundance and Prosperity. So, in one chapter called, “The Law of Affirming”, she recommends repeating some affirmations. And here are a few: “I have a right to riches, because I am a child of God.” “I am a money magnet.” “Millions of dollars come to me for use of good in the world.” “The more money I spend, the more money I have.” “I am divinely guided to experience life as a millionaire.” Hm.

carrie

She also lists some excuses that get in the way of our abundance. Things we tell ourselves that are not true. And among those are: “I have to work to get money.” “It’s a struggle to have money.” And, “I am not trying to become a millionaire.” Hmm. Uh, this all feels uncomfortable, right? Like, I feel awkward prying into someone’s financial background and their personal history. But, you know, it matters here. Lori’s essentially asking you to put aside all the things experts tell us about hard work and saving money and structural inequality and buy into her premise that anyone can be rich if they just change their mindset. And repeatedly, she uses herself as an example. So, as uncomfortable as it is, we have to look at that example closely before we dive into the deep end of this philosophy. But anyway. Does any of that matter? She’s using her own personal history to prop up this theory, but you know, so what? I mean, your brain can get in the way. And a positive attitude can be part of a successful financial strategy. So, who cares? Well, that’s not the only advice you will get in Lori’s book. So, according to the book, the first law of prosperity is tithing. Which Lori defines as “giving 10% of your income to whoever you receive your spiritual food from.” Hm. Maybe you need more information. Okay. Go to LoriSpagna.com and click on the “donations/tithing” page. There, you’re invited to tithe to Lori as a demonstration of gratitude and appreciation for her services. And she goes on, “Equally important, these donations help you to stay in flow with original source abundance and prosperity.” Hm. And for reasons I can’t quite figure out, the page also says that donations received there are not tax deductible, which is weird since her nonprofit is a registered nonprofit. But don’t worry, it’s the good kind [laughing] of nonprofit, I guess. Because, you know. It teaches abundance. So, at Conscious Life Expo, Lori said, “I can love anyone. I really can.” And I hope that’s true. And she also said that a lot of people have what she calls an insignificance complex. She said, “If you haven’t been famous or acknowledged, this is a burden you carry. Sometimes I think it’s interesting to look at someone’s background and look at their teachings and ask, ‘Maybe instead of saying something about how I should live my life, it says something about them.’ About what they’ve experienced.”

carrie

Ross and I have talked a lot of times about how religions and philosophies often come from the leader’s own idiosyncrasies, writ large, imposed on the rest of humanity. I would suggest maybe that’s happening all around. Well, that’s it for our show. Our theme music is by Brian Keith Dalton. This episode was edited by me and Ross and Victor Figueroa. You can support us by going to MaximumFun.org/donate. You can find us on social media! @OhNoPodcast on Twitter or at Facebook.com/onrac. Or you can support us by leaving a positive review, saying, “I love this show. I really, really, really hope it becomes number one, above Joel Osteen, on the spirituality channel. Amen.” And then sign your name. You can also go to our Bookshop.org page and find our reading lists. And remember:

lori

First, let’s talk about this idea of a global pandemic and a global virus. Please, please know that what we’re being told in the mainstream media— [A loud text notification goes off.] —is all misinformation. There really is, for the most part, almost nothing—almost nothing—that is trustworthy, reliable, or true… on the mainstream media. Unfortunately. And this is something that’s come through the channeling, couple of recent channels I did that just—I’m just gonna say it. If anything makes you feel afraid? It’s a lie. This is the law of truth came through and it—at a recent channel, on one of the calls I did. You may have seen it. And it basically said, “If it makes you feel fearful, trust that it is a lie. And if it makes you feel somehow uplifted or elevated, trust that it is a truth or a fact.” So, let’s dissect this concept of pandemic virus. [Music fades in.] And I’m a truther.

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Welcome to Oh No, Ross and Carrie!, the show where we don’t just report on fringe science, spirituality, and claims of the paranormal, but take part ourselves. Follow us as we join religions, undergo alternative treatments, seek out the paranormal, and always find the humor in life’s biggest mysteries. We show up – so you don’t have to. Every week we share a new investigation, interview, or update.

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