TRANSCRIPT Ross and Carrie Stand Tall: Posture Correction Edition

Transcript

music
									
“Oh No, Ross and Carrie! Theme Song” by Brian Keith Dalton. A jaunty, upbeat instrumental.
ross blocher
									
Hello! And welcome to Oh, No, Ross and Carrie! The show where we don’t just report on fringe science, spirituality, and claims of the paranormal, but take part ourselves.
carrie poppy
									
Yep! When they make the claims, we show up so you don’t have to. I’m Carrie Poppy.
ross
									
And I’m Ross Blocher. And we are talking today about good posture.
carrie
									
About being upright citizens.
ross
									
We’re not quite a brigade, though.
carrie
									
[Chuckles lightly] Correct.
ross
									
This is something that—well, many people had suggested to us, but also the internet suggested to us.
carrie
									
So many times.
ross
									
Every day—
carrie
									
Social media, man.
ross
									
—for months on end. You’ve seen it, as you’re scrolling though your feed, looking at your friends, getting angry at political news, you see some attractive person and they’re slouched over. And then all of a sudden, they sit bolt upright, and they’ve got a little white thing on the back of their backs.
carrie
									
And you’re like, “They are instantly more fuckable.’
ross
									
[Chuckles] You think, “Wow! Oh my goodness, look how she went from zero to hero—“ [Carrie laughs.] “—just by straightening her posture.”
carrie
									
She was like a 9.4 before, and now she’s a ten.
ross
									
[Chuckling] I was trying to avoid using the rating system.
carrie
									
Sure.
ross
									
Or some handsome, muscly guy, and he’s doing the same thing. Just like, “Aw, look at that slob.”
carrie
									
[In a gravelly tone] “Oh, I’m so sad, and I’m in black and white right now, and I hate my life.”
ross
									
One second later:
carrie
									
Whoa!
ross
									
He put his shoulders back!
carrie
									
“I’m in all color now! I love my life!”
ross
									
So it seems like the main—I don’t know if, “culprit,” is the right word here. But the main product is Upright.
carrie
									
Upright GO.
ross
									
Upright GO. Yeah, that’s the—
carrie
									
Yeah.
ross
									
—one you can buy. There’s a couple different versions of it. So we kept seeing that. But there’s also a whole host of similar products and ones that also are kind of just braces, if you will.
carrie
									
Yeah, more manual.
ross
									
So we thought, “Well, let’s give these a shot. Let’s try them. See if we can improve our postures,” which I think is a good goal.
carrie
									
I think so. And I’m not just posturing when I say that.
ross
									
Aw [chuckles pointedly].
carrie
									
I have always felt that my posture is poor
ross
									
Yeah, same here. And—
carrie
									
Wow, Ross. Rude [beat, then laughs quietly].
ross
									
[Beat, then chuckles] About myself.
carrie
									
Oookay.
ross
									
But I can see how it would have come across that way. [Carrie giggles.] It’s one of those things that you see in other people very easily. Like, “Oh, she’s slouches a lot.”
carrie
									
Mm-hmm.
ross
									
But it’s harder to see on yourself, ‘cause you’re in your own body.
carrie
									
That’s right.
ross
									
But, you know, I’ll catch myself. For hours on end, I spend a lot of time in front of computers.
carrie
									
Me, too.
ross
									
And I’ll realize for a long time my butt has been on the very edge of the seat, and the rest of me is just—
carrie
									
Mm-hmm.
ross
									
—you know, slouching back. And I think, “Oh, this—“
carrie
									
Little turtle pose.
ross
									
“This is not sustainable.”
carrie
									
For sure. [Chuckles] But you’re doing it right now and you’re sustaining it. Um—
ross
									
[Chuckles] Look, I—yeah, I guess, clearly it was sustainable for hours on end. Or, yeah, the reverse. Which is hunching forward. And—
carrie
									
Yeah, I’m more of a huncher-forward-er.
ross
									
[Carrie makes a few affirming sounds as Ross speaks.] Yeah, I—I do both. I’m an—I’m a shifter. I don’t stay in place for long. It’s funny. Once I gave an hour-long lecture, and I watched it later. And for some reason I had to, like, kind of watch it in fast mode, or I was scrubbing through it or something. And I just saw, like, I was doing this sort of dance. Where—da-dun, da-dun, da-dun. You know, where, like, one foot would sort of shift out forward and then the other foot would. And I’ve realized just over time, like I don’t hold still well.
carrie
									
Uh-huh. Same
ross
									
I’m always just assumed that that’s kind of healthy, ‘cause then I don’t get, you know, the equivalent of bedsores or whatever, you know.
carrie
									
Mm-hmm!
ross
									
I’m always kind of moving around where I’m, uh, situated. But, you know, certainly I could have better posture.
carrie
									
I hunch forward easily. And my mom—I guess—has mild scoliosis? I can’t actually, like, see it. But I guess the doctor has told her that.
ross
									
Okay.
carrie
									
And it ended up really harming her lower back. She had to get a cage put in there in her older age.
ross
									
Oh, goodness!
carrie
									
Yeah. Sooo, you know, I’m trying to pay attention to my posture.
ross
									
Yeah!
carrie
									
At least be cognizant of it.
ross
									
So it’s, you know, on my shortlist of things that are just general good life advice. You know, like, eat healthy. Drink lots of water.
carrie
									
Get exercise.
ross
									
Yeah. Look after your posture.
carrie
									
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
ross
									
Yeah. All of those thing are just good advice for everybody.
carrie
									
Read. If you can.
ross
									
Rrread. Yeah! Or have someone read to you.
carrie
									
Keep the air clean.
ross
									
Right? Reduce, reuse, recycle.
carrie
									
Right.
ross
									
I feel like this could be an episode, ‘cause, you know, we spend a lot of time—
carrie
									
He who hesitates is lost.
ross
									
—talking about bad ideas. There are good ideas out there.
carrie
									
True.
ross
									
And—wait, what was the last one you said?
carrie
									
[Giggles] He who hesitates is lost?
ross
									
That’s so funny, ‘cause I hesitated to understand that. Uh—
carrie
									
And yet, look before you leap.
ross
									
It’s so funny. Every now and then, I’ll come across a phrase that my wife hasn’t heard.
carrie
									
Uh-huh.
ross
									
And I just wonder, “How did you miss that?” The other day it was, “A stitch in time saves nine.”
carrie
									
Oh, wow! Yeah.
ross
									
And she’s like, “Did you just make that up?” “Uh, no.”
carrie
									
Wasn’t it you who hadn’t heard, “Six of one, half a dozen of the other.”
ross
									
I had not. Nope. Nope.
carrie
									
That’s so crazy.
ross
									
That—and now that you taught me that—
carrie
									
Right. You hear it everywhere.
ross
									
Of course. I of course hear it all the time. And then I always want to send it to you, like, “Look, look, I saw it.”
carrie
									
[Laughs] “Yes, it’s a phrase in the English language.”
ross
									
Yeah, when Cara and I were first dating, I once said something about, like, “Oh, I know how that really gets your goat.” And she’s like, “What?”
carrie
									
[Laughs loudly] That would be very funny to hear for the first time as an adult.
ross
									
“G—Goat? What goat? I don’t—what is that—“
carrie
									
“I don’t have a goat!”
ross
									
“What does that mean?” The other one was—
carrie
									
[Chuckles] And then you’re forced to explain, like, “Well, it means nothing.”
ross
									
[Chuckles] Right, yeah.
carrie
									
“It means nothing at all!”
ross
									
“I—uh—English idioms are strange.” What was the other one? “Good enough for government work.”
carrie
									
You know what? I had never heard that until probably, like, age 20. ‘Cause I—I remember hearing it and being like, “What?!”
ross
									
So there you go. How did we get there? Anyways.
carrie
									
Oh, “Good rules.”
ross
									
“Good rules.” So, you know, there are lots of them out there, and one of them is to have good posture. So—
carrie
									
Yes.
ross
									
—if one of these devices can help you—and me—have better posture, that’s a good thing.
carrie
									
Why not, I say.
ross
									
Let’s do it.
carrie
									
Why not?!
ross
									
Well, we’ll be back next week to tell you how it went. [Carrie chuckles pointedly.] Just kidding. That’s not how we do the show.
carrie
									
JK.
ross
									
We actually bought this a long time ago.
carrie
									
Yes.
ross
									
Back when we were buying our foot pads for our foot detox episodes.
carrie
									
And you know what? I had one before that!
ross
									
Did you really?
carrie
									
Cause my aforementioned mother—so a couple years ago—I think it was on some online wishlist I had.
ross
									
Mm-hmm.
carrie
									
I had put it on there. I was like, “Yeah, that sounds cool. See if I can improve my posture.” So my mom saw it and got it for me. And then I can’t remember why—I—I know I didn’t use it. But I can’t remember if that was just plain laziness, or if I tried to and ran into some bug and never picked it up again or what. But I had one and it was the Upright GO original, which is not available anymore.
ross
									
Oh, you can’t even buy version one, huh?
carrie
									
[In the negative] Mm-mm.
ross
									
I think when I bought ours, there was still the option to get the first one.
carrie
									
Mmm.
ross
									
But we bought the Upright GO 2.
carrie
									
Yes.
ross
									
The sequel.
carrie
									
Well, the one I had had a magnet to connect it to you instead of adhesive.
ross
									
[Quietly] What?!
carrie
									
I’m pretty sure you can’t buy this one anymore.
ross
									
Wait, a magnet?!
carrie
									
Mm-hmm. So you’d put it on—
ross
									
So, you have to—wait, no. I know where you’re going with this.
carrie
									
You make yourself metal.
ross
									
Yeah, exactly. So, you have someone surgically embed a metal plate—
carrie
									
Mm-hmm.
ross
									
—into your back, and then that attaches on the outside.
carrie
									
The original Upright is the mark of the beast.
ross
									
Okay.
carrie
									
Yeah.
ross
									
Oh, so it’s the back of the right hand or on the forehead.
carrie
									
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Correct.
ross
									
Okay, yes.
carrie
									
Nooo.
ross
									
[Mock disappointed] Oh.
carrie
									
You would put it on the inside of your shirt, facing out. And then the magnetic attachment on to other side of your shirt.
ross
									
Oh, I see. So it’s holding on to your…
carrie
									
Shirt.
ross
									
Shirt. Oh, that’s interesting.
carrie
									
Yeah, and—
ross
									
Huh.
carrie
									
—during this experiment, as we were experimenting with the newer versions, I thought, “Well, I’m gonna at least put that one on.” So I went and found it and put it on. It no longer speaks to the app. It’s useless. But I wanted to feel it on my body. And I gotta say, they have improved things. ‘Cause even though I would love the idea of not having to use an adhesive strip over and over—
ross
									
Yeah.
carrie
									
—your shirt moves too much. It’s not your back. You’re shirt's not your back! I’m Carrie Poppy. That’s what I learned.
ross
									
[Laughs] Yeah, adhesive strips were never part of my life before this podcast. And now they are.
carrie
									
[Thoughtfully] Oh, yeah. Touché. Same
ross
									
Thing that need to adhere to your skin.
carrie
									
If one day we find out that, like, tape is the main cause of cancer, we’re fucked.
ross
									
Well, let’s—
carrie
									
I don’t think that will happen, though.
ross
									
—let’s hope that doesn’t. So, the—the first one we bought was the Upright Go 2. When I bought it back in September, it was—all told, with shipping and tax and all that—$107.20.
carrie
									
Ooh! Okay.
ross
									
Yeah, not—
carrie
									
That’s pricey.
ross
									
Not cheap.
carrie
									
So there are three models you can currently buy if you go to their website. There’s the Upright Go, the Upright 2—which is lightly smaller, more sleek—
ross
									
Mm-hmm.
carrie
									
—and then the Upright necklace.
ross
									
Oh, yeah! that’s right. I think around the time we were trying it, they had just started selling that as well.
carrie
									
Oh, okay. That makes sense. I think you still have to buy either the Upright or the Upright GO to go in the necklace. But basically it has a nice little look on the front, like a sort of a V-neck design. And then in the back, the Upright is just sort of hanging on the other side of you.
ross
									
Another way to avoid adhesives.
carrie
									
Right.
ross
									
Okay.
carrie
									
But I imagine you may run into the same problem I did with the magnet one.
ross
									
I’m looking at their website. They’ve, uh, got an ad reminding you you can buy one for Mother’s Day. “Show Mom that you’ve got her back.”
carrie
									
Ohhh!
ross
									
I see. Okay.
carrie
									
Or that you’ve noticed she has poor posture.
ross
									
[Chuckles] Right. And, yeah, it looks like I’m seeing incentives here for like $90 certain places. So maybe it would end up being a little cheaper— [Carrie makes an intrigued sound.] —than the full-priced $100 one. Interesting. Oh, they sell them at Apple stores? Oh, that’s appropriate. ‘Cause the Upright Go device is a sleek piece of white, molded plastic.
carrie
									
Totally looks like it would be made by Apple.
ross
									
Yeah, their little logo—kind of like a lightening bolt sort of thing, but also maybe a—a graph, where you sort of see the downward slope going from the negative values to the positive values on the X axis. That’s a bad description. And then there’s sort of a depressed circle that is your on and off button—
carrie
									
Yes.
ross
									
—how you kind of communicate with the thing. And down at the bottom, there's a USB port where you can just plug it in. It’s just for charging, essentially. All of the communication and control happens through your phone. And it wirelessly, you know, connects your Bluetooth to your phone.
carrie
									
So you will have to get the Upright app, which I have on my phone here.
ross
									
Should we call it the Appright?
carrie
									
Nooo, okay! Okay. I see where you’re going with that. It’s actually the Upright GO, so Appright Go.
ross
									
Hey, I like it.
carrie
									
Yeah, and, uh, listen, I think I’m fucking sick of apps.
ross
									
You got a lot of apps, huh?
carrie
									
I don't want any more apps.
ross
									
Yeah.
carrie
									
This is the main drawback for me, is like, “Ugh. Another thing to connect to my phone and monitor and be invested in.”
ross
									
Yeah.
carrie
									
[Sighs] I don’t know. It’s too much.
ross
									
I—I think we went through that same process with computers. Like, personal computers. People started getting all these different little programs that did everything, and then they all got sort of built into the operating system.
carrie
									
Mm-hmmm.
ross
									
And then people are like, “I don’t want to buy a bunch of programs”
carrie
									
Yeah. Maybe I like having a paper address book.
ross
									
“My operating system should be able to search for viruses. Why do I need a separate thing?” I think the same app fatigue is setting in for people on phones as well.
carrie
									
Yeah. So—
ross
									
Oh, yeah? Okay. You got it running there. Yeah.
carrie
									
I still did it. Yeah. You can see—okay, I’m leaning a—toward the mic. Awayyy from the mic. Toward the mic.
ross
									
So Carrie is currently wearing this small piece of molded plastic on her back.
carrie
									
Yes, I am.
ross
									
It's maybe like—I don’t know, 1.5 inches wide by maybe 3 inches tall. Something like that.
carrie
									
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
ross
									
In that neighborhood.
carrie
									
You put tape on the back of it, this special tape that they send you. It’s double-sided.
ross
									
Mm-hmm.
carrie
									
And then you stick it on your back and you put it kind of right between your shoulder blades.
ross
									
Oh, here we go. On their website, they talk about some of the comparative features between the original GO and the all-new GO 2. Oh, yeah. So the GO 2 is 1.89 inches. So just under 2 inches.
carrie
									
Mm. Mm-hmm.
ross
									
I assume that’s tall. Oh, it’s supposed to get 40 hours of battery life?
carrie
									
Oh, is that right? Okay.
ross
									
Impressive.
carrie
									
I've just been charging it at night, but…
ross
									
It’s got multiple sensors. So I assume there’s an accelerometer. So, this one’s has—I guess—a couple. And a 40% wider adhesive.
carrie
									
Oh! Finally.
ross
									
Okay.
carrie
									
Yeah, so it sticks on your back. And I will say this about it. You forget it’s there, as far as the, like, physical feel of it on your back.
ross
									
You do?
carrie
									
Yeah.
ross
									
Yeah.
carrie
									
Very light.
ross
									
I agree. We’ll talk about another product in a bit. But I felt like this was one that really did just sort of disappear into the background.
carrie
									
Until…
ross
									
Until… [Carrie mimics an ominous three-beat sting, as from a classic horror film.] It lets you know—well, I think there were three options. One where you can just have it run silently in the background and see later on, “How was I doing?”
carrie
									
Right. That’s tracking mode.
ross
									
Yes. And then there’s the second one, where you can have it just sort of every 15 minutes sort of ping you if you’ve been consistently slouched.
carrie
									
Oh, interesting. Okay. I wasn’t aware of that.
ross
									
And then it will give you a notification and say, “Hey, hey! Thought you should know—“
carrie
									
Mmm.
ross
									
Maybe that’s during tracking. Uh, but—
carrie
									
Oh, okay.
ross
									
And then there’s the one where it will just—in real time—buzz at you any time you lean over, essentially.
carrie
									
And that’s training mode. And I’m in it right now.
ross
									
Okay.
carrie
									
Yeah.
ross
									
Phew! That’s a little—I—I was gonna say, “stressful.” It’s not stressful, but now you have a process running in the back of your mind, where you know, like, “Uh, I better stay upright or I’m gonna get this [makes an electronic buzzer sound].“
carrie
									
Oh, interesting. I don’t have that experience. One thing that I—it’s both good and bad about it. The good about it is that I just totally forget it. It doesn’t make me, like, “Oh, no. Don’t want to get that buzz.”
ross
									
Oh, okay.
carrie
									
I just forget about it. And then I’ll, you know, lean forward. Maybe I’m sitting at my computer and I lean forward to look at it and I stay in that position—
ross
									
Maybe—
carrie
									
—and it’ll buzz. And I go, “Oh. Right. Okay,” and sit up.
ross
									
Okay. Maybe you’re editing a Google doc on your laptop over there.
carrie
									
[Chuckles] RIght.
ross
									
And then Ross keeps hearing a buzzing sound.
carrie
									
[Chuckles] “What is that?”
ross
									
“What is that?”
carrie
									
So that’s the good of it. The bad of it is—well, two things for me. One is it’s not that sensitive. I find that—
ross
									
Hmm.
carrie
									
—I can—I can be pretty…not sitting upright. Like, right now, I’m like—I’m not hunched over. But, like, my shoulders are rolled forward.
ross
									
Oh, yeah.
carrie
									
My belly’s sticking out, etc. And it doesn’t care.
ross
									
I don’t—I don’t recall any way to, um, kind of set the range of acceptability. So what first happens is, when you first adhere it to your back it wants to calibrate. I don’t think it has any ability to objectively know in the world whether it’s upright or not. Of course, that would be possible.
carrie
									
Mm-hmm.
ross
									
You could do that with, you know, built in a little level. But essentially what you do is you kind of get your own personal estimation of, “This is the posture I want to maintain.” And then you tell it to set that on your phone—
carrie
									
Mm-hmm. You—you kind of tare there if you will.
ross
									
Yeah.
carrie
									
T-A-R-E.
ross
									
Yeah. Very good. And the—that’s never a word I think to use in conversation, but a very good word for this. So, yes. You tare your posture. And then it just uses that as your baseline. So if you lean too far forward or backward—though I think it really focuses on forward—
carrie
									
Oh! I haven’t tried leaning backward. Let’s see.
ross
									
Lean backward. Carrie’s doing the limbo in her chair.
carrie
									
No. I don’t think anything happens if you lean backward.
ross
									
That is disproven. You can lean backward as much as you want. [Carrie chuckles briefly.] Okay. You know what? That’s right. Because I remember thinking that was sort of a—not a way to cheat the system. But an easy way to have bad posture without it noticing is if I was doing that sort of butt-forward slouch.
carrie
									
Ohhh. Right, right.
ross
									
This is bad posture.
carrie
									
Yes. So now Ross—[laughs]—Ross can’t do this without acting it out like he’s a bedraggled employee. But, yeah, okay. So Ross’s butt is super forward on—on the chair, and then his back is really far down the support column of the chair.
ross
									
And it is not good for my back. I can tell you that.
carrie
									
Some people might call the support column the back. But not me.
ross
									
So, it doesn’t care about that particular solipsism. But, yeah. If you lean slightly forward—there’s kind of like a timer—you can watch it in real time on your phone or it can run in the background. But you can see—it’s kind of fun—this little diagram showing you as you lean forward. And it gets closer and closer to the red, and then, “Oh, no you’re in the danger zone.”
carrie
									
Mm-hmm.
ross
									
And if you’re there more than three seconds, it will buzz at you. And, uh, when I was using it, I wore it for at least three weeks every day. And they have, like, a certain amount of recommended time, and I would go way past that. I would use it for, like, four hours a day, and—
carrie
									
Oh. Yeah, I’d just put it on and forget it until I go to sleep.
ross
									
Oh, wow!
carrie
									
Am I doing it wrong? Am I too upright?!
ross
									
Well, like, they’ll ha—[chuckles]—they’ll have sort of recommended days. Like they want to sort of work you into it.
carrie
									
Okay.
ross
									
And so they’ll keep extending sort of the number of minutes/hours—
carrie
									
Oh.
ross
									
—you’re supposed to be wearing it as they train you.
carrie
									
Huh.
ross
									
But, yeah.
carrie
									
Well!
ross
									
Usually they would say, “Okay, you’re kind of done for the day. You can take it off.”
carrie
									
Huh!
ross
									
And I would say—
carrie
									
I've just been wearing it. But also it says I’ve only been slouched 2%? I’m telling you, it’s not—I need a stricter disciplinarian in my app.
ross
									
Yeah. Well, like with anything, I think you just learn over time—not how to game it, but just sort of how to predict what it’s gonna be looking at. So I would be using, like, my standing desk. And I could just got for hours at a time at work wearing this thing and know I wasn’t gonna get dinged at all. But—
carrie
									
Sure. Though it’s hard to think of using a standing desk as cheating.
ross
									
Oh, right. But then other times, I would be maybe helping someone move something, or I’d be setting stuff up and plugging things in, and I’d have to be leaning over—
carrie
									
Right.
ross
									
You know, to do X. And then I would keep getting buzzed. And I’d be like, “Ugh! Well, this is annoying.” So I’d go in the app and turn the thing off. But up to that point, I’d totally forgotten I was wearing it.
carrie
									
Mm-hmm. Yeah, mine has mostly buzzed I’d say because I’m, like, picking up Ella, putting my shoes on, etc.
ross
									
How dare you.
carrie
									
But I’m fine with it.
ross
									
Okay.
carrie
									
When it happens. I’m gonna be like, “Ooh. Little tiny massage.”
ross
									
Okay. Well, then, can you point to any times at which you feel like it has encouraged you to have better posture?
carrie
									
So I would say, if I wear it all day, there are probably three to five moments in any given day. I find it’s mostly like, I’m working on my computer pretty intently, and I kind of, like, squinted at something subconsciously. Not because I can’t see it, but because we jus have this built-in mechanisms of, like, “I am focusing!”
ross
									
Right, right. “This is the hunter instinct.”
carrie
									
[Chuckling] Oh, right.
ross
									
“I am—I am narrowing my field of vision and the light that I intake to give me slightly sharper vision.”
carrie
									
“Now—“ Yeah, “Now that I’m closer to this, uh, this shirt design is totally different. But, so, I’ll do that and then it buzzes. And I’m like, “Oh! Hey!” And I’m always so excited. Like, “Look at that! You did the thing you were supposed to do! Okay!” And then I sit up. And I would say that’s how maybe one out of every…seven buzzes is useful to me in that way and not just a—
ross
									
Okay.
carrie
									
—a false positive.
ross
									
[Carrie makes a few affirming sounds as Ross speaks.] So, I think a good measure is to compare those training sessions vs. the—the tracking sessions. And I think early on when I was first using it, I would kind of follow their recommended times. So I would have like a chunk of time where I was just tracking without really being aware it was there, just to get a baseline. And then I would have it on and buzzing me. And I feel like I did notice a difference, because I was becoming more aware of it and trying to sort of game the system. And this is all very good for people who love gamification. Uh, it gives you little charts afterwards, and you can see a little pie chart of how long you were upright vs. how long you weren’t. I don’t know. I—I think the first time, I was somewhere around 20% of the time I was slouched.
carrie
									
Mm-hmm. Oh, wow! Okay.
ross
									
And then I very quickly got it up to the low single digits. You know.
carrie
									
Right.
ross
									
So, in that sense, yeah. Yeah. It works.
carrie
									
Yeah, that’s it!
ross
									
That’s it!
carrie
									
We’re all done. So you might be thinking to yourself, “Who invented this glorious contraption?”
ross
									
I’m thinking that.
carrie
									
Were you thinking that?
ross
									
Who invented it?
carrie
									
I found out. It’s made by Vahid Sahiholnasab and Hussein Sahiholnassab.
ross
									
Any relation?
carrie
									
I assume so? But actually, see, the—why not fall down that rabbit hole for no reason. [Ross chuckles.] I found their website. I looked at them. Couldn’t tell if they were related. But one of them said the other was his mentor. And I was like, “Do you really just have the same last name?” ‘Cause you should say, “mentor and brother.”
ross
									
Huh.
carrie
									
Anyway. I don’t know. And that’s the most important thing you can take from this, is these—this might be invented by brothers. Maybe not! But they are Canadian medical entrepreneurs. They also made something called the EyeFacer, which are glasses that alert you if you’re getting text neck. It’s like—
ross
									
Text—text neck. Okay.
carrie
									
Yeah. So text neck is a real thing and a problem, right? Where, like, you’re hanging—
ross
									
I’ve never heard that term before.
carrie
									
Oh, okay.
ross
									
But, I don’t know if it sounds as good as Text-Mex.
carrie
									
[Chuckles] See, it’s not nearly as good. Not as much avocado, etc. So, it’s like, you’re keeping your chin at that level that we text at—
ross
									
Ahh.
carrie
									
—and it’s unnatural to our spine. And you end up, you know, uh—
ross
									
Sure.
carrie
									
—yeah, getting weird pains and stuff. So, this is a pair of glasses with a little sensor in them. You can actually get them in your prescription if you like. And if you’re at that angle, it flashes a little tiny light at you, just to notify you. So then you bring your hand up so that it’s straight in front of you. And you look like a freak when you’re texting, but you’re not hurting your neck.
ross
									
So this is totally the same concept—
carrie
									
Mm-hmm.
ross
									
—as the Upright GO. Just on your face.
carrie
									
These two are just obsessed with posture. They love it.
ross
									
I kind of like my mental image of them now, just kind of walking around with books balanced on their heads.
carrie
									
[Chuckles] Yeah, maybe they went to finishing school.
ross
									
[Carrie makes several affirming sounds as Ross speaks.] This reminds me of kind of ergonomic designs just for setting up your desk and, like, not having your monitor at such a way that you’re constantly looking up toward it. You know, that it’s just naturally, comfortably a little lower than you, All these other concerns. And these are good things to think about. Especially if it’s something where your’e going to set it and forget it. It’s worth the time to make sure that your workspace is helping your body in the long run. ‘Cause we weren’t made for this. You know, we were designed by evolution. And if you listen to our interview with Nathan H. Lents, you’ll know we were designed originally as quadrupeds, and only relatively recently in evolutionary time did we start walking upright. And that’s where most of our bodily problems come from.
carrie
									
And making our bodies last forever past when they were supposed to.
ross
									
[Chuckling] Right.
carrie
									
Forever!
ross
									
Right.
carrie
									
[Chuckling] I mean, I was supposed to die so long ago.
ross
									
Yeah. It was supposed to be, you know, like smallpox or something that got us. Uh—
carrie
									
Yeah. I was supposed to have a kid and then my body was supposed to be like, “Done! You did it! The end! You’re 22! You’re fine!”
ross
									
Yeah! You’re now invisible to evolution.
carrie
									
Right.
ross
									
But, we remain viable longer nowadays. And, yeah, we gotta take—
carrie
									
Knock on wood.
ross
									
—we've got to take care of these things.
carrie
									
So wear a mask when you go outside. Anyway, the headquarters of the Upright GO are in Tel Aviv.
ross
									
Okay.
carrie
									
Yeah. Israeli company.
ross
									
Always a lot of tech—
carrie
									
Is that true?
ross
									
—in Tel Aviv. Yeah.
carrie
									
Okay. I didn’t know it was a tech hub.
ross
									
Absolutely.
carrie
									
And yes, they do own the patent for devices that sit on the top of your back and vibrate when you go into an upright position.
ross
									
Oh!
carrie
									
It is US patent number 9406211B2.
ross
									
Alright. Well, there goes our plan making a competing device that didn’t cost $100.
carrie
									
Yeah. Touché. Can’t do it. Sharks.
ross
									
On their website, they list the benefits. Just to run through what—
carrie
									
Ooh, yeah.
ross
									
—what they kind of claim, uh, this will help you with.
carrie
									
Yeah. Tell me about them bens.
ross
									
So the first thing is that you will look and feel better than ever.
carrie
									
And ever? Hm.
ross
									
“Changing your whole appearance just by being upright.”
carrie
									
Alright.
ross
									
“An upright body makes you look taller and slimmer.”
carrie
									
‘kay.
ross
									
Yeah, okay. And, you know, they kind of elaborate on that. So, “Don’t let your stomach hang out,” and all of that. But also, you build confidence naturally by stimulating your biochemistry.
carrie
									
[Chuckles] Okay. Stimulating my biochemistry.
ross
									
Yep. Uh—
carrie
									
Okay, that’s pretty big.
ross
									
Okay, “An upright posture boosts testosterone production—“
carrie
									
Oh!
ross
									
“—and lowers cortisol levels in the body and brain—“
carrie
									
[Amused] Huh.
ross
									
“—making you feel ready to take on any challenge.”
carrie
									
Ineresting.
ross
									
Interesting.
carrie
									
Boosts testosterone? That’s—
ross
									
And lowers cortisol.
carrie
									
So, yeah. Cortisol’s the stress hormone. Hmm.
ross
									
Okay, I’ll look this one up.
carrie
									
Yeah, ‘cause I did look up some studies about posture, but—
ross
									
Yeah.
carrie
									
—didn’t run into anything about those two chemicals.
ross
									
There’s just kind of a general note about how it helps you get noticed and build new relationships. [Carrie chuckles.] Not be overlooked at work. I don’t know. What if you want to lean in?
carrie
									
Ohhh. Touché!
ross
									
Oh-ho-ho!
carrie
									
Okay!
ross
									
See what Sheryl Sandberg has to say about this. It—it’s also a form of tuning into your body. So it just makes you more aware.
carrie
									
Okay. That—I would say—is objectively true.
ross
									
And they're kind of tying it to other benefits of de-stressing and just calmness, etc. “Boost work productivity and success in life.”
carrie
									
Oh, shit. That’s exactly what I want to do.
ross
									
“Get—get more done in less time with quality results.”
carrie
									
[Chuckles] Okay.
ross
									
We—we have another substance. “You can increase the flow of oxygen to your brain,” it’s saying.
carrie
									
Ohhh.
ross
									
Hmm.
carrie
									
Okay. I guess that’s possible. Because when you’re leaning forward, you can’t—
ross
									
You're breathing better?
carrie
									
You can't get as much oxygen into your diaphragm at least.
ross
									
You know what? That’s—that’s actually—okay, that’s fair. Uh, “Upright posture also helps your lungs to take in more oxygen, giving your body what it needs to naturally relax and feel great.” Okay. That doesn’t seem like an extraordinary claim.
carrie
									
That seem like one of those things where if you actually measured it, it would probably be a very, very tiny increase, and who knows how it actually affects your greater system.
ross
									
Yeah.
carrie
									
But, probably at least technically true.
ross
									
Yeah, I think you're right on that. Also, “Relieve pressure and strain on your back! Sitting or standing in a slouched position for long periods of time can put undue strain on your back—“
carrie
									
Sure.
ross
									
“—especially if you are mostly inactive during the workday. Along with muscle fatigue, slumping can lead to neck pain, breathing limitations, and digestive problems.” So, yeah. Actually, that—that all sounds pretty straightforward. ‘Cause when you’re leaning too far forward, too far backwards, it’s chaining your center of balance, and it’s putting undue stress on your back.”
carrie
									
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I wonder, too, if—when I sit upright, it takes just this little tiny bit of effort from, like, my core muscles, etc. And I wonder if just that little amount of activity has some effect as well?
ross
									
Mm.
carrie
									
Cause it does take some minor effort.
ross
									
Right.
carrie
									
Maybe that effort’s good for me. Maybe it’s bad for me.
ross
									
So it's sounding like your overall experience has been fairly positive.
carrie
									
I would say it is just a hair above neutral. Like…uh, it doesn’t annoy me. I see what the benefits are. Would I…recommend this to anybody—[chuckles]—who didn’t just say they want to track their posture? Would I just be like, “This is a thing my friends need!”
ross
									
Right
carrie
									
Nah. It’s fine.
ross
									
Yeah.
carrie
									
It’s fine. It's a solid C+ experience.
ross
									
[Chuckling] Okay. Yeah. I think I would be kind of, uh, similar in my assessment, where I can’t really point to anything objectively bad about it.
carrie
									
Mm-hmm.
ross
									
If someone gave me one, I'd be, “Oh, cool.”
carrie
									
Yeah. "Oh, this again.”
ross
									
Would I—outside of this podcast that we do—would I spend $100 on it? No.
carrie
									
No.
ross
									
Not at all.
carrie
									
Absolutely not.
ross
									
Is it worth $100? Uh, I doubt it.
carrie
									
Mayyybe. I guess it depends on how much this is a problem for you.
ross
									
Yeah I—
carrie
									
We should say that. Neither of us started out with, like, “This is something I gotta fix!”
ross
									
Right, right. But, you know, would it be worth $20? Now we’re talking. You know. Something like that. [Carrie makes quiet, affirming sounds in the background.] And I would notice that maybe—yeah, I think you were just kind of hinting at this. Sometimes it takes certain musculature just to sort of keep yourself in a certain pose.
carrie
									
Right.
ross
									
And I think sometimes I would sort of have in my mind, like, “Okay. This is the posture I would want to hold. And then I would kind of put some extra muscle effort into doing that. And I would start to get, like, a sore lower back.”
carrie
									
Yep.
ross
									
And I think I was holding something that was kind of an unnatural pose. And then—I don’t know, I just mentally had a hard time. Like, “Wait, what is natural? Where should I be? I don’t even know anymore.”
carrie
									
[Ross makes a few affirming sounds as Carrie speaks.] Agree. And I will say this. On their website, I think, they have a video where they’re like, “Hey, here’s how to set your perfect posture.” And they mention that. They say, “You know, if you kind of immediately get into Superman pose, you’ll think, like, ‘Yeah, my posture’s awesome!’ but you’re actually kind of hurting your back. So you want to—to not feel like much effort. Like, it took effort to get there, but it should take virtually no effort to stay. That’s your sweet spot.”
ross
									
Okay. Ah. Ah, very good. Okay. Well, I probably could have improved that quite a bit. But yeah, overall, I would say, you know, eh, thumbs up!
carrie
									
Yeah!
ross
									
I—I kind of like it. I got really nothing bad to say about it. But always, I think, the true test of something when we try it is, “Do I keep doing it even when we’re done trying it out?”
carrie
									
Uhh...no way.
ross
									
[Carrie makes a few affirming sounds as Ross speaks.] And it’s no. You know, it’s an adhesive that you do have to swap out every now and then. The adhesives were pretty good at staying sticky for multiple days. But, yeah, eventually you have to swap them out or clean them. And it—yeah, it’s just an extra process. It’s something else—you know, I’m already doing lots of daily apps and other to-do-list items, and so it just—
carrie
									
No! More! Apps!
ross
									
Right. It just becomes part of the noise of things you gotta think about—
carrie
									
Mm-hmm.
ross
									
—in a day. And it’s just inconvenient enough that, you know, I didn’t keep using it after those first three-plus weeks.
carrie
									
I bet though, if you were a person like a model or an actor or someone who, like, your body is your job—
ross
									
Mm. Mm-hmm.
carrie
									
—I could see why this would be useful, especially if you’re taking a million photos and you don’t want to rely on the photographer to be like, “Oh! You’re slouching a little bit.” This would be a useful thing for that.
ross
									
We've talked in the past about other things like, uh, hypnotherapy that are just good at reminding you of something. And that that is a valuable service.
carrie
									
Mmm-hmm.
ross
									
I think it does that. If you would love to have someone there, just kind of reminding you every now and then, like, [makes a pointed coughing sound].
carrie
									
Yeah [chuckles].
ross
									
This can be that person for you.
carrie
									
Oh, you know what? Actually, I know who this would be great for. Maybe we should send it to them if we don’t want this thing. My old boss, Chris—who works at the humane society now and is a wonderful man who has devoted himself to animal rights—
ross
									
Nice.
carrie
									
—he always had a reminder set on his calendar that said, “Sit up straight!”
ross
									
Oh!
carrie
									
And he'd also have little sticky notes and stuff. ‘Cause he’s very, very tall.
ross
									
Oh, yeah.
carrie
									
So, just looking at the computer or looking at his coworkers, etc, he just slowly, through the course of the day, he hunched over.
ross
									
Devolve. Okay.
carrie
									
So, mm, yeah. I bet he’d love this!
ross
									
If he doesn’t already have one.
carrie
									
Okay, I’ll ask.
ross
									
Okay.
carrie
									
And then maybe we’ll send it to him.
ross
									
Alright, alright.
carrie
									
He should be so lucky.
ross
									
The—I—I should say, my son, Andrew, he got really excited by—
carrie
									
Oh, okay.
ross
									
—this product category. ‘Cause I think he realized its was something about himself. He plays a lot of video games.
carrie
									
He uses the computer a lot.
ross
									
Sure. So he was kind of thinking about, like, “Oh, should I try to get one of these?” And I said, “Well, we’re gonna try it for the podcast. You want to try it to?” So he’s tried both devices. The one I’m wearing right now he’s used extensively.
carrie
									
Okay,
ross
									
And he wore the Upright GO for a long time, too. And he liked them. He would use them even more than I did.
carrie
									
Oh, okay.
ross
									
‘Cause I think he felt that was worthwhile, having that kind of device saying, “[makes pointed coughing sound]”
carrie
									
[Coughing the first syllables] Ah—ah—ah—ah—Andrew!
ross
									
[Chuckling briefly] Yeah.
carrie
									
We will get into the second device in a second. Before we do, if you were selling a device—
ross
									
Yes?
carrie
									
—how do you think you would go about it?
ross
									
Oh, goodness. Okay. So, I’ve got all these devices. They’re siting around me in my apartment, in my home. I need to get them to other people’s homes. Probably what I would do is, I would drive them to each and every—ah, that’s going to be really difficult.
carrie
									
What were you gonna say?
ross
									
You know what?
carrie
									
You would drive them to each home?
ross
									
Yeah. Just deliver them to the people—
carrie
									
Oh, wow.
ross
									
—and say, “Here you go.” And I’d throw it from six feet away. But I’d say, “Here’s your device.”
carrie
									
I’ll be honest. Our listeners would love that. We would sell so much merch if this were the promise.
ross
									
Ah, this one is in Missouri. Okay, well—
carrie
									
Alright.
ross
									
—guess I better get started. No. You know what? I should probably use something like the mail system.
carrie
									
Okay. I’m with you. I’m with you so far.
ross
									
That—that would make it easier for me. [Putting on a stressed, groaning tone] But, ah, man, now I’ve got to, like, box it. I’ve got to, like, fill out labels and—
carrie
									
Yeah. Sure. But—and then, you also have to figure out, “Okay, I’m sending hundred of these.”
ross
									
Right.
carrie
									
“What’s gonna be the cheapest service to use? Is it FedEx? Is it USPS? Is it UPS? Is it Jim’s Sending Service, JSS?”
ross
									
Right. Oh, my goodness. This has gotten so complicated all of a sudden. You know what? I would need some kind of service that would kind of figure all this out for me.
carrie
									
Exactly. And you know what that service is?
ross
									
What is it?
carrie
									
ShipStation!
ross
									
Oh, ShipStation! Yeah.
carrie
									
And I just realized—oh my God, this is so funny, that we’d be talking about this. ShipStation is actually one of the sponsors of this episode.
ross
									
What?
carrie
									
Yes! I know!
ross
									
What? Are you serious?
carrie
									
I know! Yeah, I’m serious.
ross
									
Aren’t they the service that brings all of your orders into one simple interface? Whether you’re selling on Amazon or Etsy or your own website?
carrie
									
Yes, it is. And you know, folks are adapting to this changing world, right? We're all buying stuff online—
ross
									
Mm-hmm.
carrie
									
—and there’s all this delivery culture. And ShipStation works with all the major carriers like the ones I mentioned, right?
ross
									
Mm-hmm.
carrie
									
USPS, FedEx, UPS. Even Amazon fulfillment.
ross
									
Oh, that’s amazing.
carrie
									
And Jerry’s Shipping Service, JSS. So, you can compare and choose the best shipping solution for you and your customer right inside the system.
ross
									
They even offer big discounts on shipping costs. So now any business can access the same postage discounts that are usually reserved for larger Fortune 500 companies.
carrie
									
Oh, boy.
ross
									
You’ll always know that you’re getting the best deal.
carrie
									
Aw, man. That’s good stuff. And right now, Oh No, Ross and Carrie! listeners can try ShipStation for free for 60 days.
ross
									
Free?
carrie
									
Yes. When you use the offer code, “OhNo!”
ross
									
Oh, then they’ll know that we sent you.
carrie
									
Exactly. So make sure you business is ready to meet the demands of delivery culture. Get started at ShipStation.com today.
ross
									
Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage, and type in, “OhNo,” O-H-N-O.
carrie
									
That’s ShipStation.com and then enter offer code, “OhNo.”
ross
									
ShipStation.com. Make ship happen.
carrie
									
But that is not the only thing I wanted to tell you on this, the 23rd of May, 2020.
ross
									
It looks like you have another delivery for me.
carrie
									
Yes, I do. [Makes a fanfare sound] Opening this box. It’s a Jumbotron!
ross
									
A Jumbotron!
carrie
									
Whoa! And this is a very, very important message from McKensie.
ross
									
For Eric.
carrie
									
And the message is, “Lorb!”
ross
									
“Lorb.” That’s it. That’s the message.
carrie
									
That's the whole thing.
ross
									
You—did you get that, Eric? Loud and clear?
crosstalk
									
Ross: Lorb! Carrie: Lorb!
carrie
									
Okay, so about posture devices.
ross
									
[Laughs] So, yeah. We got another one as well. Because it seemed like there was kind of a second class of devices. Now, there’s that exclusive patent of the Upright GO. You know, they’re the ones that are the brand name of adhesive devices that sit on your back or—I guess—on your necklace. But there were also a lot of devices that were essentially just like over-the-shoulder—
carrie
									
Boulder holders.
ross
									
Yeah, I was trying not to…end the phrase that way.
carrie
									
[Laughs] That’s what people say about bras!
ross
									
Over-the-shoulder posture holders.
carrie
									
Over—okay! Alright!
ross
									
Holsters, essentially.
carrie
									
Which—okay. Okay. Over-the-shoulder posture hostlers.
ross
									
[Chuckling] Okay. There you go. Like wearing a backpack without the pack.
carrie
									
The pack.
ross
									
Or a rucksack without the sack.
carrie
									
The ruck.
ross
									
No, you still got the ruck.
carrie
									
Oh, yeah. Okay.
ross
									
You’re trying to keep it upright.
carrie
									
Imagine if you wanted to have all of the threatening look of carrying a gun, without having to carry a gun.
ross
									
[Laughs briefly] I have friends who wear, like, holsters like these.
carrie
									
Uh-huh.
ross
									
Like kind of the shoulder things, but they’ll have a calculator in there—
carrie
									
Oh.
ross
									
—or their phone or, you know, some other thing.
carrie
									
Well, alirght.
ross
									
And it’s—yeah, there’s always this process of, “Ah—oh, okay. That—huh.”
carrie
									
Okay. Yeah [giggles].
ross
									
Cause, you’re just primed to think of that as, like—
carrie
									
Right, it’s like—
ross
									
—a gun. Someone’s got a gun.
carrie
									
—okay. Yeah, okay. “Oh, I’m scared. No, I’m confused. Oh, I see what’s happening. Oh, wait. You wanted me to go through this process. That’s strange.”
ross
									
[Laughs] And that’s what I’m wearing right now. This device called, “The Posture Corrector for Men and Women.”
carrie
									
[Chuckling] Aw. Okay. Very straightforward. I appreciate that.
ross
									
By—by Gearari. Oh, it goes on, actually. The full title on Amazon—I bought this on Amazon—was, “Posture Corrector for Men and Women, Upper Back Brace for Clavicle Support, Adjustable Back Straightener and Providing Pain Relief from Neck, Back & Shoulder, (Universal).”
carrie
									
Okay. Universal is better. ‘Cause I want to say, if you’re not a man or a woman. If you’re gender-non-binary, this is still gonna work for you.
ross
									
Still for you. Now originally I tried to buy the Mr. Posture.
carrie
									
Oh-ho! My, my, my! Mr. Posture! What are you doing here?
ross
									
Yeah! They had a little more advertising going. It felt like more of a product. It had its own dedicated website. But they wouldn’t take either of two credit cards I tried to give them.
carrie
									
Oh.
ross
									
And then I—then I was just getting suspicious and uncomfortable.
carrie
									
Yeah.
ross
									
And, oh, my goodness. I got so many e-mails, like, “You didn’t finish your order. How can we help you complete your order?”
carrie
									
That’s your fault.
ross
									
Right, so I wrote them back and said, “You know what, I actually will take your survey, and tell you that I tried to buy your Mr. Posture and I couldn’t. That’s on you.” [Carrie chuckles.] Then I would get their personal sales rep. “Well, how can I make it up to you. Let me give you a discount.” “I already ordered the other thing! [Chuckles] Like, leave me alone. I don’t want this.” And I would just get, like, five e-mails a day, lik—
carrie
									
“Can I speak to Mr. Posture.”
ross
									
[Laughs] Like, trying to—[breaks off, laughing]—uh, trying to, uh, resolve this pro—anyway. So, don’t go to them. Instead—if you do a search for this on Amazon, oh my goodness. So I just put in the words, “mr” and “posture” on Amazon, and I just got hundreds of results.
carrie
									
Oh, yep, yep.
ross
									
So many things selling this exact same format. I think this one cost me, like, $27 I want to say? And so, uh, that’s kind of in the—the higher range of what these devices tend to cost. Still cheaper than the Mr. Posture, though.
carrie
									
And much cheaper than the Upright GO, too.
ross
									
But they also had some stated advantages to this. Let’s see here. We've got, “the drawbacks of bad posture,”
carrie
									
Is—you’re in black and white again. Ughhh, you’re sad. You’re in black and white. You’re slouched forward.
ross
									
You’ve got soreness and pain. Your arms are experiencing numbness. You’ve got poor digestion, a negative mood, low self-esteem, poor circulation, and fatigue.
carrie
									
Oh, god. But then you put on your dinghy. Which—actually in this photo—she does not have on.
ross
									
Right—[laughs]!
carrie
									
And now you have correct posture! And you’re in color! And you’re happy!
ross
									
Yeah, you’ve got pain prevention and higher mobility, better breathing, positive feelings, higher self-esteem, good circulation., energy efficiency, improved concentration, and looking good.
carrie
									
Oh, alright, alright.
ross
									
Alright, yeah. They show people using this device, happily riding a bike, going to school. I like this guy’s going to school and people are like, “Uh, your backpack is tiny. Can’t even see it.”
carrie
									
[Chuckles] This is very good, because one of the photos is a stock photo of a man leaning against his car and it says, “driving,” at the top. But A, he’s not driving and B, he’s clearly a stock photo of someone wearing a backpack that we just can’t see the back of.
ross
									
[Chuckles] I think you’re right. And then somebody running with this. They recommend you measure your chest circumference beforehand. They’ve got some product reviews. It’ll take 14 days of evolution to kind of adjust and get to your best posture. Which is interesting. Upright GO said exactly the same thing.
carrie
									
Oh, okay.
ross
									
Like, it’s a 14-day period to really get to good posture. It’s not gonna happen overnight.
carrie
									
Come on!
ross
									
Let’s be realistic here. And—this is a big claim. [Carrie chuckles.] Invisible under clothing.
carrie
									
Um…no.
ross
									
“You can wear our posture corrector all day long, even under clothing. No one will notice.”
carrie
									
Incorrect.
ross
									
Okay. Yes. So, we’ve tried this.
carrie
									
Yeah, it is a—how thick would you say that is? Like a good two centimeters thick?
ross
									
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
carrie
									
Yeah.
ross
									
[Carrie makes a few affirming sounds as Ross speaks.] Yeah, the band is pretty wide. And in even—in, like, the thickness of how fat it is—it’s squishy, and it feels a bit like wearing a backpack. You know, like the—the straps on a backpack. And yeah, it’s padded a bit. And essentially you run the loops around over your shoulders and then back under your armpits and then through these loops and then you tighten it, essentially as tight as you can, until it’s uncomfortable. And it’s a very different method of kind of restricting your motion or reminding you of your posture. ‘Cause essentially, if I kind of slouch my shoulders forward, this will provide some resistance. And I’ll feel that motion. And that reminds me, “Oh! I’m wearing this posture thing. I’d better get my shoulders back.”
carrie
									
It reminds me of those back braces people use to, like, pick up stuff.
ross
									
Oh, yes. Uh, that usually kind of terminate in some sort of cummerbund. Sort of—
carrie
									
Yeah, go around your torso.
ross
									
Around—yeah. But, yeah. You tighten this thing up and then it’s got a long strap of velcro so it can sort of attach to itself. So it forms this sort of butterfly loop that’s going around your armpits. Yeah. I tried wearing it under the clothes one day. It was really uncomfortable.
carrie
									
Yeah.
ross
									
And I remember someone—I think it was their last day. And they came by at work to, like, say goodbye to me, and I went to give them a hug, and it was like—it was super uncomfortable.
carrie
									
Oh, yeah.
ross
									
And I felt really uncomfortable with this thing restricting my motion underneath my shirt, and I was like, “I don’t like this.”
carrie
									
“And they—and they don’t have a visual cue for what’s happening, so now I’m just a weirdo.”
ross
									
[Chuckles] Yeah, and they're like, “What is this under his, uh—ah, it’s the last day. I’m not going to ask.”
carrie
									
[Chuckles] It makes me think of that I Love Lucy episode where she hides all the eggs under her, uh, muumuu.
ross
									
[Laughing] I don’t—
carrie
									
But not quite that extreme.
ross
									
I don’t remember that, but it sounds like her.
carrie
									
It’s a good episode, but they all are. So the main drawback of this—I think—is how it looks. So you really do look like you’re packing heat.
ross
									
Yeah! And I will be—‘cause I’ve taken it out running, to try it for the podcast. But I feel self-conscious—
carrie
									
Yeah.
ross
									
—being out there with, like, “Who am I gonna run past, and they’re gonna have to look at me and think, like, “[Gasps] What has he got?”
carrie
									
Right!
ross
									
Can you imagine if I was wearing this plus that mask that we had before?
carrie
									
That’s—or the masks we’re all wearing right now.
ross
									
Right, but remember when we were wearing the elevation training masks—
carrie
									
Yeah, sure.
ross
									
—which already made you look like Bane. Plus, like, this thing that at first blush looks like a gun holster as a—
carrie
									
Yeah.
ross
									
Yeah, a little nerve-racking.
carrie
									
[Sighs] I think one of the reasons I feel moderately okay wearing this is that I’m white.
ross
									
Mm.
carrie
									
Like, there are so many signals that you don’t want to send if you’re a person of color. One being carrying any sort of weaponry.
ross
									
Ugh.
carrie
									
So I feel like this is already a device that’s, like, very limited to a particular audience. Yeah.
ross
									
Yeah, but that's all just a side consideration. But, you know—
carrie
									
But it ends up being a big deal. ‘Cause I did—I felt all the time like, “Oh, I look like I’m carrying a gun.” [Ross laughs.] And as a person who is afraid—very afraid of guns, like, I don’t want to make anybody else look at me and think that.
ross
									
So around the house, no big deal.
carrie
									
Yep. True.
ross
									
But you—you have to at least be conscious of it. And, yeah, I wouldn’t want to wear it to work, because people would have those reactions. And now, so, like, “Which…what’s this one Ross? What are you doing this time?”
carrie
									
Right [chuckles].
ross
									
I mean, at least they’re used to weird behavior from me.
carrie
									
Yeah.
ross
									
And also because you’re tightening it kind of as tight as it goes, it runs right up under the armpits. And I’m even feeling it right now. Like—
carrie
									
Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
ross
									
—I feel like I’m a little sweatier than I normally would be. It’s sort of accelerating that process of my armpits sweating.
carrie
									
And also there’s that, like—not quite a pinch. It's the sort of thing you wouldn’t notice for the first two hours, but after five or six hours, you’re like—
ross
									
Mm.
carrie
									
—“Ah, it’s just like a very bare chafing kind of stuff.”
ross
									
But it’s interesting, though, because in a few different ways it’s doing the same thing as the Upright GO, but in a very different way.
carrie
									
Mm-hmm.
ross
									
Cause, like, for this one, it doesn’t really restrict you if you’re just leaning forward—
carrie
									
Mm.
ross
									
—but if your shoulders are going forward.
carrie
									
Which is more my problem.
ross
									
Okay, So this one at least, like, you feel that resistance—
carrie
									
Mm-hmm.
ross
									
—if you try to lean your shoulders forward and then you bring them back a bit.
carrie
									
Yeah.
ross
									
I guess if anything, it would kind of inspire me to keep my arms out a little more.
carrie
									
Oh, okay.
ross
									
Which might be a good thing. That might help with circulation.
carrie
									
Sure. You got that old, uh, superman pose.
ross
									
Right, right. Just to air out my armpits a bit. [Carrie chuckles.] ‘Cause I’m wearing this—but I will say, my son—again—Andrew’s worn this at least five times more than either of us have.
carrie
									
Wow, okay!
ross
									
Yeah, as soon as I was—I felt like I had tried it enough, he just sort of inherited it and—
carrie
									
Okay.
ross
									
—he had it when we went to record. I said, “Hey, Andrew, can I borrow that—“ [Carrie laughs loudly, briefly.] “—back. Uh, I want to use this.” But he’ll use it when he’s playing video games and stuff, ‘cause—
carrie
									
Oh, that’s nice!
ross
									
Yeah.
carrie
									
Okay.
ross
									
I think he feels it’s helpful.
carrie
									
Well, I liked that one more. As far as the physical experience of using it, I found that much more usable, more useful to me as a person who has slumped over shoulder more than slumped back, I guess.
ross
									
Mm.
carrie
									
I liked it a lot more. But, yeah. The look of it is such a drawback. I think at least make it a bright color? Then maybe that would—a little more like a vest or something instead of—
ross
									
Ineresting, yeah.
carrie
									
—a holster?
ross
									
That’s something, ‘cause, you know, both of us wear backpacks.
carrie
									
Mm-hmm.
ross
									
And we’ll do it when we’re walking towards someone, and they can’t see the backpack behind us, but—
carrie
									
Sure.
ross
									
—for whatever reason, it doesn’t have that same feeling to it.
carrie
									
Yeah. And—and I think that’s color. ‘Cause let’s see. My laptop backpack is red and my everyday backpack is orange. So, yeah.
ross
									
Oh, including the straps?
carrie
									
Uh-huh.
ross
									
Interesting.
carrie
									
Yeah, the orange one’s next to you right now.
ross
									
I have a black backpack, so I—
carrie
									
Okay.
ross
									
—I’m just doing the exact same thing.
carrie
									
Oh, that’s interesting. Yeah. Okay, yeah. I mean, I guess you look more or less like someone with a backpack. Then, of course, if you’re running or something, it’s like, “Person running with a backpack?”
ross
									
Mm. That could be the missing piece.
carrie
									
Yeah. So…I have a feeling neither of these are going to take places in our homes and hearts.
ross
									
[Chuckles] Right. We’ve had these for many months, and kind of after I’d used them each for a few weeks, I’d just sort of toss them aside. And I still have kind of this baseline posture that could be better.
carrie
									
Mm-hmm.
ross
									
I like the idea of these? But in execution, I don’t think they rise to the level of importance that I’ve made them a daily routine.
carrie
									
Yeah, that’s always the real question. You know, you go to a blog and you see someone’s review of a device. Often it will be glowing, maybe even completely honest. But if you go back and ask them a year and a half later, “Hey, how are those colored lenses going?”
ross
									
Yeah, right [laughs].
carrie
									
That’s the real question.
ross
									
That’s funny. That makes me think, like, “I don’t know. You should make that Upright GO device glow.” ‘Cause then I challenge someone to right a review that doesn’t include, “glowing.”
carrie
									
Clap, clap, clap, clap, clap.
ross
									
That’s a—there’s an Emo Phillips joke where he sets up this whole thing about how, uh, he wants to have a show where he does nothing but just drive steel bolts into sheet metal. And he challenges anyone to write a review that does not include the word, “riveting.” [Ross and Carrie laugh.]
carrie
									
Ridiculous.
ross
									
I love it.
carrie
									
Um, so, Ross. You might be wondering, “But is it true that better posture is gonna do all these things for me? Is it going to give me more self esteem? Is it going to make me better at math? Is it going to put me in a better mood?” ‘Cause these are things you hear.
ross
									
Oh, well I want to know. ‘Cause that will be the difference between me taking this off and me keeping it on.
carrie
									
Forever?
ross
									
Yes.
carrie
									
Wow! Okay! Here it comes, for all the sauce!
ross
									
Yep. If the science is there, I listen to the science.
carrie
									
I’ve never heard the phrase, “For all the sauce,” but I…just invented it, and I like it.
ross
									
I didn’t, uh, question it. You know. “A stitch in time saves nine.”
carrie
									
Oh, that’s interesting. I never thought about that.
ross
									
There’s more where that came from I can just make them up.
carrie
									
So, okay. There was an Ohio State University study. It was released in October 5th 2009.
ross
									
Mm-kay.
carrie
									
It seemed to indicate that upright posture does increase your own confidence in your own thoughts. So this is what they did.
ross
									
Hmm.
carrie
									
They had some people slouch and some people sit up. They told them a cover story so they would hopefully not understand what the study was really about.
ross
									
Focusing on some other factor.
carrie
									
Yep.
ross
									
Okay, good.
carrie
									
And then they had them write down good and bad traits about themselves as if they were applying for a job.
ross
									
Ah.
carrie
									
So, “What are—what makes you best suited for this and what makes you, uh, maybe a little weaker of a candidate?”
ross
									
Okay. I like it.
carrie
									
Now, what was interesting, though, is afterward, you might expect that the people with better posture were like, “Yeah, I am good for that job.” But, no, no. The people with better posture believed what they wrote more, positive and negative. So it gave them more confidence in their own thoughts—
ross
									
Ohhh.
carrie
									
—but the content of those thoughts was a pretty independent variable.
ross
									
Interesting. Okay, so it increased your level of certainty, but not necessarily your positivity.
carrie
									
Mm-hmm.
ross
									
Okay.
carrie
									
Which—that—I thought that was really intersting.
ross
									
Yeah. Okay. So it—if you don’t want to waffle back and forth, remain upright.
carrie
									
Yeah. [Chuckles] Right!
ross
									
Okay.
carrie
									
So, if you’re in a debate, perhaps, where it’s like, “Listen, it doesn’t so much matter if what I’m saying is true, it’s that I win!” [Ross chuckles.] Then you want one of these posture devices on.
ross
									
[Carrie makes a couple of affirming sounds as Ross speaks.] That’s so funny, ‘cause we use upright as an adjective to describe someone who follow the rules, is dependable, you know, good citizen.
carrie
									
Morally sound.
ross
									
Right.
carrie
									
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah! Yeah!
ross
									
Upright. And we use, “right” as well, yeah, vs left, you know.
carrie
									
Oh, true. [Whispers] Oh, yeah.
ross
									
If you're left-handed, you’re sinister, you’re gauche.
carrie
									
And those are all true things.
ross
									
Correct.
carrie
									
Mm-hmm. Left-handed people are evil. Mm, just kidding. Please don’t write to me, left-handed people. Okay. Then—
ross
									
But if you do, do it with your right hand.
carrie
									
[Laughs] Prove it! Prove you’re left-handed! Okay. And—by the way—that study was published in the European Journal of Social Psychology. I should say, I just read the abstracts of each of these, so I have not checked the methodology, etc., etc. They could be shit. I don’t know. [Ross makes a few affirming sounds as Carrie continues.] Okay. So, June 29, 2018, San Francisco University released a study in the journal Neuroregulation. And it did suggest that good posture improves math reasoning ability. So, yeah. People whose posture had been corrected seemed to do better at these, like, logic and math problems they were presented with. I couldn’t tell from what I was reading whether it was controlled in any meaningful way. But they did conclude, “Yeah, it seems to make you better at math.”
ross
									
Now, uh, just playing with that idea—not necessarily saying I’m buying into that. You know, if we also buy—let’s say—better oxygen circulation as a result of better posture, you know, maybe that’s it, too. You know, if you’re breathing better, maybe you're doing better at math.
carrie
									
Yeah, yeah, yeah. All these things go into the soup, and then it’s pretty hard to extract one—
ross
									
Right.
carrie
									
—one part of it.
ross
									
Just feels like, “Oh, okay. Maybe hat’s not the causality there.” But, okay, interesting.
carrie
									
Yep. Or if confidence is important in math. Who knows?
ross
									
[Carrie makes a couple of affirming sounds as Ross speaks.] But this obviously ties in very much with the idea of power poses. And, you know, people with their arms akimbo can be more commanding in a meeting and more self-confident.
carrie
									
Or there’s that thing people say where you should—like, before a meeting or whatever, you bring your hands out like a lion and go, “Ahhhh!” Supposedly that makes you more confident. [Ross laughs.] A couple times I’ve done it and I feel so stupid.
ross
									
Did you do it before your recent interviews?
carrie
									
[Chuckling] I didn’t. I should have.
ross
									
Where you were very assertive and collected.
carrie
									
Oh, thank you. Thank you.
ross
									
Were you beforehand, um, “Ahhhrr!”
carrie
									
No, I was not. Hi, Kimberly!
ross
									
Aw. [Laughing heavily] That seems too bad, ‘cause, “Ahhhgh!” I like that mental image.
carrie
									
Okay. And then in June 2015, in the journal Health Psychology, there was a study with 74 participants and they had put physiso tape on some of them to make them upright—
ross
									
I was gonna say earlier, when we were talking about this over-the-shoulder posture holder, how it will sort of give that little tugging feeling as your shoulder is going the wrong way. I was thinking, “Oh, that could be done with tape as well.” So—
carrie
									
Mm-hmm. And they do.
ross
									
Okay!
carrie
									
Yeah, I think they use it mostly in, like, sports medicine.
ross
									
Yeah. Where essentially you can get someone to sort of keep their elbow or their shoulder in the right position, just by putting this tape on that will make it just that much harder to kind of move it out of position.
carrie
									
Right.
ross
									
I’ve used it before. Like, in physical therapy. And, yeah. It worked.
carrie
									
Makes sense. Same idea as a cast, just much gentler.
ross
									
Not to be confused with—there are some pseudoscience tapes out there—
carrie
									
Yes.
ross
									
—that people will use in sports applications.
carrie
									
Okay. So some people had the physio tape on that made them sit upright. Others were slouched. They did tell them a cover story to make them think the study was about something else—
ross
									
Good.
carrie
									
—and then put them through stressful tests. And, um—
ross
									
No the scientology stress tests.
carrie
									
Correct. Well, maybe that was part of it.
ross
									
Okay.
carrie
									
That is stressful. And then afterward, the people who had been upright were in a better mood. They were less scared. They were more alert. And they had higher reported self esteem From what I could tell, this seems like it had just been single-blinded. But, anyway. You know, some suggestive results.
ross
									
Nice.
carrie
									
I should also mention—just in looking at all this data—I found something called the American Posture Institute. Just the funniest little outfit. It’s basically these two doctors. I’m just going to trust that they really are doctors.
ross
									
Okay.
carrie
									
Though they go by, “doctor firstname,” in both cases—
ross
									
Oh, alright [makes some noncommittal sounds].
carrie
									
—which I always find a little weird. But they talk about their credentials in that dumb combining way, where they say, “[In a lower, declamatory voice] Between the two of us, there are five PhDs, eight Master’s degrees, twenty courses from Harvard extension, threee certifications from the such-and-such institute.” It’s just so silly.
ross
									
Wow, okay.
carrie
									
So, anyway, that’s neither here nor there. But I became a big fan of the American Posture Institute and their very silly marketing.
ross
									
That—wow, okay. I tried looking up to see if there were, like, any PubMed articles talking about cortisol and testosterone levels in relation your posture.
carrie
									
Mm.
ross
									
I think maybe they’ve been looking at this one, that was looking at the effect of yoga poses, such as the cobra posture.
carrie
									
Cobra posture, you’re leaning way back. But, okay.
ross
									
Yeah. Okay, so they were looking at blood serum of healthy subjects who adopted the cobra posture.
carrie
									
And how is my serum when I do the cobra posture?
ross
									
Your cortisol is decreased by 11%.
carrie
									
[Surprised] Wow, okay.
ross
									
And testosterone is increased by 16%.
carrie
									
I wonder how that compares to just other forms of exercise.
ross
									
Yeah.
carrie
									
But, uh, good to know.
ross
									
That’s the only one I found that mentioned those particular chemicals. There were a few other studies about, like, standing vs. sitting work station. They were saying that cognitive performance and workload were unaffected after 23 weeks of use. However, accuracy appeared to improve, and physiological stress appeared to be altered.
carrie
									
After use of what? A standing desk?
ross
									
Yeah, I believe so.
carrie
									
Okay.
ross
									
So, there were a few other tests looking at some things. But I’m not seeing exactly where Upright GO got that cortisol, testosterone claim, so—
carrie
									
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Interesting.
ross
									
[Carrie makes a few affirming sounds as Ross speaks.] —take that one with a grain of salt. But generally, having good posture is a good idea. And your body does a pretty good job of telling you when you’re uncomfortable. So just be tuned into your body. And overall, you know, just be mindful. I think it’s a good thing to think about.
carrie
									
And these are also things that are sort of on the upper end of being a lucky and healthy individual. If you naturally have a slouch, I don’t think this is something you need to kill yourself over to fix.
ross
									
And, you know, when we’re talking about studies, even when there are perceived advantages, they’re probably subtle.
carrie
									
Yeah.
ross
									
This is just kind of a you-taking-care-of-you thing.
carrie
									
Yeah. But if this is something you care about, this is one way you can monitor it.
ross
									
And, you know, overall, giving them a thumbs-up.
carrie
									
Yeah, sure.
ross
									
But just for me, I didn’t feel like there was enough of an advantage for me to just make them part of my daily routine.
carrie
									
Instead of a thumbs up, I’d give them one of these.
ross
									
Uh, Carrie is extending her hand. Actually, I kind of associate that post with, like, the—
carrie
									
Spiderman?
ross
									
Yeah, I was thinking a comic book cover where someone is generating—yeah, you might be shooting webs.
carrie
									
That’s interesting. Yeah, like, well, so I think it’s all in the face. When you have the same hand with this, where my nose is all scrunched up, it means like, “Meh. It’s fine.” But keep the same hand and go—
ross
									
There you go [laughs].
carrie
									
—which is a very intense stare.
ross
									
Yeah, Carrie’s fingers are splayed. Each one is pointing in a very different direction.
carrie
									
Yeah, that’s interesting. This hand can mean either, “Meh,” or intense power.
ross
									
Or, “I—“ or, “I’m magic!”
carrie
									
[Laughs] And I mean, “Meh.”
ross
									
“Meh.”
carrie
									
It’s fine.
ross
									
Okay, more, “meh,” than magic.
carrie
									
Yeah. Well, what would you give this on a danger rating? Ten is something that’s very dangerous. Like getting COVID-19— [Ross groans.] —and then training a big cat to be in your magic act—
ross
									
Oh, no. Aww.
carrie
									
—but not being so good at interacting with the cat.
ross
									
Aw, poor Rory.
carrie
									
And doing both those at the same time.
ross
									
Okay.
carrie
									
That’s a ten.
ross
									
That’s a ten.
carrie
									
And then one is something that’s not that dangerous. Like, spilling some flour on your nice apron when you’re making cookies.
ross
									
Yeah, I would say a one. I would say they’re helpful if anything. You might find yourself—like me—sort of stressing the wrong muscles—
carrie
									
Mm-hmm.
ross
									
—uh, to maintain something that isn’t quite the right posture and getting a little wigged out in your own mind, but that’s something you can work through. How about you?
carrie
									
One.
ross
									
Alright.
carrie
									
It’s not dangerous.
ross
									
Well—well—
carrie
									
Maybe, I mean, it’s zero if you want. Whatever you want, listener.
ross
									
Look. Our scale is one to ten.
carrie
									
One.
ross
									
[Chuckling] Okay. I know it’s confusing. What would you then give this on a pocket-drainer scale? Where one is something not very pocket-draining. Like, uh, your dog buys you a— [Carrie chuckles.] —a Mother’s Day gift. And it’s food for her.
carrie
									
Why, that just happened today!
ross
									
But you were probably gonna get her a snack anyway.
carrie
									
That's true. And your fiancé made the purchase.
ross
									
And ten is, you decide for Mother’s Day to take your mother in a helicopter and fly across whatever country you live in.
carrie
									
Goodness. What am I? The Bachelor?
ross
									
Right. So that’s a ten.
carrie
									
Okay. I do think it’s expensive—I mean, hard to compare to a helicopter ride. But sort of ignoring the scale— [Ross chuckles.] —I think it’s pretty expensive for what you’re getting.
ross
									
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
carrie
									
No offense, uh, to my two friends who invented this. I think a six. That’s if I’m talking about the Upright GO. The other thing, two.
ross
									
Oh, okay. Fair. Yeah, I feel like both of these are kind of devices where the person has thought, “Ah! I found something that’s kind of helpful. And I’m gonna add a markup to that.”
carrie
									
Mm-hmm.
ross
									
Yeah, I think maybe both of these were a bit overpriced for what they were.
carrie
									
Mm-hmm.
ross
									
I would say the Upright GO even more so. So, yeah. I’m with you. I’ll say, yeah, somewhere in the six or seven range for the Upright GO. And what did you say for—
carrie
									
A two.
ross
									
Uh, three or four, I’ll say. For the whole [inaudible].
carrie
									
Okay. So, we’re averaging out around four.
ross
									
Yeah.
carrie
									
Alright. What about on a pseudoscience rating, where one is something that’s not pseudoscientific at all. So that would be something that’s very scientific.
ross
									
Mm-kay.
carrie
									
Are you following me?
ross
									
Yeah. Something, like—well, this is probably going to be the gold standard of scientific evidence.
carrie
									
Yeah.
ross
									
So, something well-supported by mountains of evidence convergent from multiple fields of study.
carrie
									
Exactly. So, like, the climate has been changing for generations—
ross
									
Well, yes.
carrie
									
—but is accelerating in particular at this moment and humans had something to do with that.
ross
									
Oh, yes. That is correct.
carrie
									
Yeah.
ross
									
Okay.
carrie
									
That’s a one. And then ten is something that’s extremely pseudoscientific.
ross
									
Mmm.
carrie
									
Like the current coronavirus outbreak is actually a 5G attack.
ross
									
Mm-hmm. That was simultaneously leaked from a lab in China.
carrie
									
Mm-hmm. Correct. That’s a ten.
ross
									
Okay. Yeah, I don’t—I don’t feel like there’s really much in the way of extraordinary claims here. Like, you know, you could haggle over transmitters or hormones in the body. I’ll say maybe two at most.
carrie
									
Yeah, I was gonna say two or three. This is, again—and we say this so many times—if anything, this is an issue of overselling.
ross
									
Right. Yeah. You’re trying to make a lot of hay out of something that’s a very subtle improvement. But, you know, if it’s right for you, it’s right for you.
carrie
									
Right.
ross
									
What would you give this on a creepiness scale, where one is something not creepy. That plant, over there. That’s not creepy at all.
carrie
									
Oh, my pothos? Yeah.
ross
									
It's very—
carrie
									
It’s beautiful.
ross
									
What is it called?
carrie
									
Pothos.
ross
									
I know I’ve seen those before.
carrie
									
Yeah, they’re known for being very easy to care for.
ross
									
Broad leaves.
carrie
									
Mm-hmm.
ross
									
Friendly-looking plant. Whereas ten would be—oh, my goodness. I just started reading this book that was recommended on Reading Glasses. It’s called, “Hex.” It’s about this town where they have this witch.
carrie
									
Uh-huh. I think I heard about this on Reading Glasses, too. But go on.
ross
									
Okay. Yeah. And, you know, I won’t—I won’t share too many details, ‘cause then it gets even creepier. But essentially, you move into this town. They try to discourage you from doing it. But then all of the sudden now, you have this witch who will just show up in random places. So at any time of the day, maybe she shows up in your bedroom.
carrie
									
Oh.
ross
									
Maybe she shows up in the living room. And she just stands there. You can’t get rid of her.
carrie
									
[Chuckling] Oh, my god.
ross
									
You can’t do anything about—
carrie
									
That’s very creepy.
ross
									
Uh, yeah. And she’s got—you know, like, her eyes and her mouth are sewn shut, and if you hear her too much, you’ll want to kill yourself. And—
carrie
									
Oh, my God. Okay, is this a paper book that you have a copy of?
ross
									
Kindle book.
carrie
									
Aw, shoot. Okay.
ross
									
Or I'd totally lend it to you. It’s—anyways, that’s a ten.
carrie
									
Phew! Boy, it is.
ross
									
I—I just—I thought it was a brilliant conceit.
carrie
									
Yeah. Well, I will tell you my answer to that question. But this also reminds me that everyone should go to bookshop.org/shop/ohno to see our, uh, suggested reading list!
ross
									
Yayyy!
carrie
									
We finally have one!
ross
									
Yayy!
carrie
									
And if you use that link to buy the books we recommended, you both support independent bookstores and support this show, ‘cause we get a little cut for curating the list for you.
ross
									
Both those things are good.
carrie
									
Good!
ross
									
It’s a work in progress. We’ll keep adding more books. But it’s got a lot of our favorites and things related to our investigations and things we bring up often on the show. So, check it out.
carrie
									
Yeah, check it out. Check, check, check, check, check, check. Okay, anyway. Um—
ross
									
[Chuckles] Now that we have a scale.
carrie
									
Uh, creepy. Okay, so the only thing that keeps coming to mind that’s sort of in that realm for me is just how much we are bio-hacking ourselves at this point.
ross
									
Oh, yeah!
carrie
									
That, like, God, our lives are so good. At least people like you and I who, like, are relatively healthy, have jobs, etc, that we can obsess about the tiniest little details.
ross
									
[Putting on a deep voice and upper-class accent] Is my posture right?
carrie
									
Is my posture okay?
ross
									
[Continuing in the voice] Am I 2% too forward—yeah—
carrie
									
[Enunciating] I will add something to the top of my back that vibrates that tells me and then I will simply sit up.
ross
									
[Same voice] I have $100 to—for that cause.
carrie
									
We’re too good—yeah, exactly. And I can imagine, like, my grandmother looking forward in time and seeing me, like, looking at an app and being like, “[In a panicked tone] Ah, ugh! Slouch! Ugh! Okay, uh, now I have to correct that! Oh, uh, I’m learning this! Oh, boy, I—I’m doing 1% worse than my mental gains. Ahh!” [Ross laughs.] [Regular tone] I could see her being, like, “This is creepy and sad.”
ross
									
Is this why I’m putting myself through college, so you can do this [inaudible].
carrie
									
[Chuckling] Right. So.
ross
									
Okay.
carrie
									
With that in mind, I’ll give it a two.
ross
									
I like that. Okay.
carrie
									
Still not that creepy.
ross
									
Well, and we also talked about the holster appearance of—
carrie
									
Oh, true. The holster is much more. That’s like a five.
ross
									
I like your argument. You talked me up to a three.
carrie
									
Alright! Oh, I talked you past my own number [laughs].
ross
									
Yeah. It was the slingshot effect. I like it. I like your description there.
carrie
									
What about hot drinks?
ross
									
Uh, no hot drinks came with my order.
carrie
									
[Chuckling] Mm-hmm. They should have.
ross
									
[Chuckles] And, uh, I don’t think I enjoyed them any more sitting upright than I would have otherwise.
carrie
									
I guess if you were really slenched over you could choke.
ross
									
[Giggles] Sure.
carrie
									
So, hey.
ross
									
You know, thumb sideways.
carrie
									
[Chuckles] Yeah, neutral thumb.
ross
									
Well, thanks for joining us on this investigation. And, you know what? Maybe some of you out there are thinking, “I do want this in my life.”
carrie
									
And you know what? We’re not gonna stop you.
ross
									
Yeah, that’s awesome.
carrie
									
That’s fine. That’s exactly what this device is. Fine.
ross
									
[Laughs] Right.
carrie
									
It's fine!
ross
									
I'm sure now that you’ve listened to this episode, you’ll get hit with tons of ads for it. They’ll come right back.
carrie
									
[Laughs] Yeah, I guess you’re right.
ross
									
Or, just like the keywords in our episode.
carrie
									
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you’re right.
ross
									
We hear—we hear that from people all the time. Like, “Why am I getting all these Rythmia ads all of the sudden?”
carrie
									
And that does not mean that your speaker is listening to you. That means that you are giving data you don’t know you’re giving through your internet activity.
ross
									
But thank you for listening to our show.
carrie
									
Yes
ross
									
And arming that pump
carrie
									
Exactly. Thank you for making this possible. Our theme music is by Brian Keith Dalton.
ross
									
Our editor is Victor Figueroa.
carrie
									
Our administrative manager is Ian Kremer.
ross
									
You can find us on social media, facebook.com/onrac. O-N-R-A-C.
carrie
									
Or on Twitter, at twitter.com/ohnopodcast.
ross
									
It’s a good place to interact with us. Interact with other listeners to the show. Get, uh, ancillary articles and links and images.
carrie
									
Find out when I randomly throw things on my Etsy store for a few hours at a time.
ross
									
Sometimes she does.
carrie
									
Sometimes I do it. Sometimes I don’t.
ross
									
You can also support us at MaximumFun.org/join or /donate.
carrie
									
And you could also leave us a positive review. Do it on iTunes, for example, also known as Apple Podcasts. Or write it on your NextDoor app, and just tell your neighbvors.
ross
									
[Giggles quietly] It’s a little thing for you, hopefully. But it’s a big thing for us.
carrie
									
That’s right.
ross
									
It helps people find us. Helps us look well-liked by people.
carrie
									
[Giggles] Yeah, it’s really a popularity contest out there.
ross
									
Well, you know, like, we cover a lot of topics.
carrie
									
Yeah.
ross
									
And, um, sometimes people just see that we came down not-their-way on one topic—
carrie
									
That’s true.
ross
									
—and they give us a negative review just for that.
carrie
									
Yep, yep. That’s true. That’s true.
ross
									
So it would be nice for those of you who do enjoy our show to be heard.
carrie
									
And who have a bird’s-eye view of the whole project.
ross
									
Yeah.
carrie
									
Not this little, tiny sliver.
ross
									
Think of the birds.
carrie
									
Think of the birds. I’m Ross Blocher. And remember:
clip
									
Pat James DeMentri (Morning Q Live episode February 14, 2018): We think about, “Okay. I want to get in my steps during the day. How many of us actually think about the pressure that we’re putting on our abdomen. Or the strain that we’re putting on our spine throughout the day. Well, now you don’t have to. Because there’s an invention that’s going to do that for us. This is the Upright GO connected posture trainer. And this is something that I was super excited to be able to launch in Morning Q Live, with my friend Brooke this morning. Good morning! Brooke: Hello! Good morning! Happy Valentine’s Day! Pat: Hi! Happy Valentine’s Day. And you know what? What a great gift to be able to give to somebody. At any time of the year, to be able to give them something that can track their own health. Brooke: Mm-hmm. Pat: Now, we know Brooke Mills as one our friends who is an expert in personal care. But this is a company—this is their second item that they’ve brought to us here at QVC, and this is one that already has a popular following. Brooke: They’re really—it—I’m so excited to bring this to you— Pat: I know [claps]! Brooke: —because it’s a tiny wearable device that’s actually going to train you to a better posture, because it vibrates every time you slouch. And it’s so simple to use, because so many of us, we are at our computers. We’re hunched over. Right? Or we are leaning over, looking at our phones, and some people may call it, “tech neck.” And it—you don’t have great posture when you do that. And it’s actually proven that bad posture may cause some discomfort in your lower back. Um, for me, I get the discomfort right by my shoulder blades. Pat: Same. Brooke: And I used to think it was my chair or where my monitor was lined up, when really it was just poor posture. And this is so simple to use. And I love how small it is. Pat: I’ve been wearing it— Brooke: Yeah! Pat: —throughout the show this morning. And, let me tell you. You know when you put your phone on vibrate? It’s half of that intensity—
clip
									
Brooke: Mm-hmm. Pat: —when it gives you a little buzz, um, to let you know that you’re slouching a little bit. So when I do this, I feel a little buzz right on the base of my neck, like, a little bit lower, right on my spine. And it’s just a little gentle reminder— Brooke: That’s right. Pat: —kind of like your mom tapping you on the back going, “Hey, hey—“ Brooke: Exactly! Love that. Pat: “—that’s enough now.”
music
									
“Oh No, Ross and Carrie! Theme Song” by Brian Keith Dalton fades in quickly and plays through to the end.
promo
									
Music: Shouted vocals, “Hey!” kick off an upbeat rock instrumental featuring electric guitar and drums. The music quickly fades and continues to play below Jesse as he speaks. Jesse Thorn: Hey, MaxFunsters, it’s Jesse Thorn. This week on my public radio interview show, Bullseye, I’m talking with Tina Fey and Robert Carlock about creating Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, 30 Rock, and also just kind of why they’re the best at everything. Tina Fey: There was a window of time when we would just go to awards things and pick up our prizes and party with the people from Mad Men. Jesse Thorn: You can find Bullseye at MaximumFun.org or wherever you listen to podcasts. Just search for, “Bullseye with Jesse Thorn.” Music: The song finishes with a guitar and drum flourish, followed by scattered cheers.
promo
									
Speaker 1: I listen to Reading Glasses because Brea and Mallory have great tips. Speaker 2: My suggestion for book festivals is just go for one day. Speaker 3: I listen for the author interviews. Speaker 4: I was a huge Goosebumps fan. Brea/Mallory: Yes! Speaker 4: R.L. Stein was totally my jam!  Speaker 5: I don’t even read. I just like their chemistry together. [Clip from an episode plays] Mallory: Literally if on the back it said like, “this book made me shit my pants,” I’d be like, “That’s—I’m buying this book.” Brea: Yeah. Mallory: Like, I think the problem with blurbs a lot of times—
promo
									
Brea: I like that we both want to crap ourselves over books. [Clip ends] Brea: I’m Brea Grant. Mallory: And I’m Mallory O’Meara. Brea: We’re Reading Glasses and we solve all your bookish problems every Thursday on Maximum Fun.
music
									
A cheerful guitar chord.
speaker 1
									
MaximumFun.org
speaker 2
									
Comedy and Culture.
speaker 3
									
Artist owned—
speaker 4
									
—Audience supported.
About the show

Welcome to Oh No, Ross and Carrie!, the show where we don’t just report on fringe science, spirituality, and claims of the paranormal, but take part ourselves. Follow us as we join religions, undergo alternative treatments, seek out the paranormal, and always find the humor in life’s biggest mysteries. We show up – so you don’t have to. Every week we share a new investigation, interview, or update.
Follow @ohnopodcast on Twitter and join the Facebook group!