TRANSCRIPT Oh No, Ross and Carrie!: Ross and Carrie Become Conscious (Part 1): Conscious Life Expo-sition Edition

Ross and Carrie attend the 18th annual Conscious Life Expo, featuring the best and brightest in the world of new age and mystical claims. UFOs, chakras, healing patches, CBD tinctures, holy water, weird hats, unusual baseball habits, and so much more!

Podcast: Oh No, Ross and Carrie!

Episode number: 233

Transcript

music

“Oh No, Ross and Carrie! Theme Song” by Brian Keith Dalton. A jaunty, upbeat instrumental.

carrie poppy

Hello! Welcome to Oh No, Ross and Carrie! The show where we don’t just report on fringe science, spirituality, and claims of the paranormal. No, no, no, no, no. We take part, ourselves.

ross blocher

Yup! When they make the claims, we show up, so you don’t have to! I’m Ross Blocher.

carrie

And I’m Ross Blocher. [Ross makes a “hm” sound.] We are coming at you, live, from my living room.

ross

Well, okay, so we’re not live.

carrie

Okay. Touché.

ross

Well, we—you and I are live.

carrie

We are alive! And we are—

crosstalk

Ross and Carrie: Conscious! Carrie: Coming at you consciously. Ross: Apropos of our recent visit to the Conscious Life— Ross and Carrie: [Cheering.] Expo!

ross

This is one I’ve wanted to do for a long time.

carrie

Yeah, and people send it to us every once in a while. [Carrie agrees several times as Ross talks.]

ross

This is something we’ve been aware of for a long time. And it was in its 18th year, this year! So, it’s been going on since year of our Lord 2003.

carrie

Amen.

ross

It couldn’t be more appropriate for our podcast, because it is an assembling of—

carrie

Smorgasbord.

ross

A gallimaufry, jambalaya, of every— [Carrie agrees enthusiastically several times.] —spiritual claim. All rolled into one LAX Hilton. In Los Angeles.

carrie

Every single year.

ross

It’s crystals. It’s healing. [Carrie agrees.] It’s CBD supplements. Free energy devices. It’s UFOs.

carrie

Haunted things. Blessed things

ross

Pyramids and chem trails and just, it’s—

carrie

Chakras.

ross

You said it very well. It’s like if our podcast just spilled out into a building. [Carrie agrees.] There it is. And it—

carrie

That’s what this is.

ross

Normally we have to go out and seek these people. [Carrie agrees with a laugh.] And they have all fallen in our laps. So essentially, we could just do our investigations out of this conference.

carrie

[Laughing.] We could! And we will. And that’s all we’re doing from here out.

ross

Our podcast shall heretofore be known as Oh No, Conscious Life Expo!

carrie

[Giggling.] And I thought it was going to be more of a crunchy, healthy thing. [Ross hums in acknowledgement.] Not so much with the wild claims.

ross

Oooh! When you heard the term “Conscious Life Expo”?

carrie

Yeah. I guess That’s what it summoned to mind, for me. But no, no, no, no, no. You’re not gonna go here and eat some granola. You’re not gonna go here an hear about animal rights. You’re gonna go here and talk to someone about how a pyramid is gonna heal your missing foot.

ross

And that crunchy stuff might be subtext, but it’s— [Carrie agrees several times.] It’s on the fringe of what is normally fringe and is now this whole expo. And yeah, we’ve been meaning to do this for years, and every year we talk about it. ‘Cause we’ve been doing this podcast for nine years, now!

carrie

Niiiine yeeears! Geez.

ross

That’s Wiiild! Yeah, every time we think, “Oh, shoot! We just missed the Conscious Life Expo!” Or, “Oh, shoot. You have to be out of town that week?” [Carrie agrees.] You know, it’s always something or other. But, yeah. It’s a four-day conference, though kind of centered on a weekend. And so, we signed up. I got the one-day pass for Saturday and the day pass for Sunday. Each was $35.

carrie

I think I did the same. [Ross affirms.] We figured, “Okay, there are these individually priced workshops and talks. We’ll just sort of play it by ear, and if—in the moment—we wanna go to a particular one, we’ll eat the cost then.”

ross

Right. And You can buy, like, VIP admission and pay a lot more, but then you get—kind of—more guaranteed access to things. But we thought, [voice pitched high and thoughtful] “You know, let’s just go check it out, see what’s there.” [Carrie agrees.] So, uh, 70 bucks for that and you’ll pay double that just in parking, ‘cause—

carrie

[Pained.] Oh my god! The parking situation! Is awful!

ross

Well, you’re near LAX and everybody’s trying to park. [Carrie agrees.] And get to the airport, and…

carrie

Truuue. But.

ross

But.

carrie

This particular Hilton? [Ross agrees.] The parking is under the hotel, and they don’t tell you when it fills up. They still let you come in, even though there are literally no spots left.

ross

This is criminal.

carrie

And so, I go down there, y’all. And I’m driving and driving and driving thinking, “Where are the open spots?” Before I realized, “Oh! There are no open spots! You just let me in, anyway!” And then I realized people were, like, parking along the side of the walls and, like, creating spaces where there were no spaces!

ross

[Chuckling.] Oh, wow.

carrie

So, I just…

ross

It’s the wild west.

carrie

Yeah, and I joined it.

ross

Oh, you did? [Laughs.]

carrie

I created a space on the end of an aisle that was not there.

ross

Though you said you ended up spending $40, for parking? [Chuckles.]

carrie

I was $40. Now, did I spend $40? No.

ross

[Intrigued.] Oooh.

carrie

Was I so furious [chuckling] when I left that I said, “I lost my ticket.” And got the guy to let me out? [Ross makes a sound of surprise and agrees several times.] Yes. I lied. And I don’t feel proud of it and I told Drew the next day, “I feel guilty about this and I have to tell someone.” [Wheezes into laughter.]

crosstalk

Carrie: That I stole a fake space under LAX Hilton. Ross: It’ll be… [chuckling] our little secret. What did you do the next day? ‘Cause I—

carrie

I took a Lyft.

ross

Ooh, smart. That’s right. I parked at the parking spot next door, which is normally—is for airport parking. And that was 32 bucks or something. [Carrie makes a sound of surprise.] But yeah, it’s just—

carrie

Come on!

ross

Yeah, every Los Angeles story begins with traffic related anger. [Laughs.] So.

carrie

Yeah. Yeah. Anyway.

ross

It’s a great way to start your hippie, like, spiritual experiences.

carrie

Getting in touch with your feelings. [Ross hums in agreement.] First one? Anger.

ross

[Laughs.] So, you walk in and—of course, it’s the LAX Hilton, so you see various Hollywood types walking through, wondering what is going on. But then you see a lot of people wearing robes and shawls and—

carrie

Several flowy scarves on one person.

ross

Beads and crystals.

carrie

You’re like, “Those are my people.”

ross

Oh yeah! In the big atrium, as you enter in, you can see—like—a grand staircase leading up and there’s signs everywhere. So, you see, “Okay, there’s programming going on up there.” And then there’s hallways leading back, so you know there’s stuff there on the first floor. But in this giant atrium, you have a performance stage. And there’s always someone up there playing a flute. Or… [Carrie agrees several times.] Playing the harmonium or dancing. Or leading a live yoga session. And just a smattering of people kind of sitting on the couches there, watching them, or participating.

carrie

Or ignoring them. I got to see a couple pretty choice performances, there.

ross

Oh, did you?

carrie

Oh yes.

ross

And what’d you catch.

carrie

Oh yes! Okay, let me pull out my phone. Little interesting fact about me, my phone also takes video and photos.

ross

[Beat.] Yeah.

carrie

[Beat.] That’s it.

ross

Oh! That’s—that’s very interesting.

carrie

And so, I—you know—I use it to capture various things that happen, in my life, and [dreamily, drifting into a murmur] that’s a unique fact about me.

ross

That’s very unique.

carrie

Here’s the guy singing on the stage. [The sounds of the video playing are very distant, only barely picked up by the microphone. It continues under the dialogue.]

ross

Yeah, okay. Carrie’s playing the videos she took.

carrie

Just super atonal.

ross

We’re looking down into this large, kind of, two story atrium from the staircase. And you can see there’s a large chandelier hanging from the ceiling. We’ve got posters. And, yeah, what’s he doing? He’s all by himself.

carrie

He’s all by himself. He’s singing super atonally. But he was singing a song that went, [tunelessly] “This! Is! Everythiiiiing!” And people were largely ignoring him.

ross

Awwww. [Carrie agrees.] So, it’s not everything.

carrie

[Laughing.] It’s not—

ross

Aw, that’s sad.

carrie

There was him and then there was also someone who was, um, doing what I can only describe as the hippie dance. [Ross affirms with humor in his voice.] All around. So, yeah. Lots of arm waving and stuff. And he was fun to watch.

ross

Yeah, I felt like every time I came out, there was a new performer. And it might be a woman playing guitar and singing something or could be, like, a full dance number happening with people wearing sparkly veils and dancing around. So, yeah. It was varying levels of liveliness. So, nice way to enter. I love that they—

carrie

[Interrupting.] Ross! This is how I had to park.

ross

That’s not a parking spot. [Carrie affirms.] You’re, like, straddling one. Okay.

carrie

Mm-hm! Okay, go on.

ross

And I love that, behind this area where everyone was sitting, there was a large, flat table surface. And they had known what was gonna happen, so they put up these signs that said, “Please do not place pamphlets here.” [Carrie agrees with a laugh.] “They will be thrown away. Thank you.” And it reminded me of, you know, when someone puts up a sign that says, “Post no bills,” and everyone puts, like, Bill Clinton and…

carrie

Oh, sure! That’s fun.

ross

And Bill Nye.

carrie

And a duck.

ross

Oh, right [chuckles], yeah. [Carrie laughs.] Posts any kind of bill they can think of. Everyone had brought their little 5x7 fliers that they’d been littering all over the place. I saw one for the Trust Frequency. Another for the Dance of Souls. Another one that said, “Know your life’s purpose.” [Carrie affirms several times.] Star Magic Healing Workshop. “Learn how to live in the 5th dimension.” Advertisements for people’s various workshops and services and they all had that standard art of, you know, the meditating person and the lotus position, or…

carrie

In purple.

ross

Yeah, or glowing networks of lines forming weird torus shapes, or whatever it may be. Yeah, we felt right at home.

carrie

On that exact same table where they had the, “Please don’t leave your fliers here,” flier— [Ross agrees.] —I saw this. Did you get to see this one? The “Women Beware” sign?

ross

[With interest.] Nooo! What—wait.

carrie

Take a look. I was like, “Hey, good job whoever did this!”

ross

“Warning. Women be conscious. Be aware. Be safe. Hold your power. Beware of sex in exchange for healing or enlightenment. Don’t let yourself be manipulated. There is a longstanding history of sexual inappropriateness in the spiritual community. Male gurus/enlighten masters/swamis/teachers throughout time have been known to make sexual advances towards women, offering healing or enlightenment in exchange for sex. This continues to this day! Be aware. Be strong. And be safe. Allow no opportunity for impropriety. Be safe.” Wow!

carrie

Fuck yeah, right?!

ross

Oh, my goodness, that’s awesome! [Carrie agrees.] Yeah, I did not see that! How cool!

carrie

Okay. [Chuckles.] Yeah! I thought that was pretty neat. It was—it seemed like it was intentionally placed next to this one person’s brochure, but… [Ross chuckles thoughtfully.] I could be reading into that, so I’m not going to…

ross

Maybe it was—okay.

carrie

Name and blame.

ross

Won’t necessarily read into that. Okay. [Carrie agrees several times.] Wild. Yeah, from here you could also see banners for Gaia. G-A-I-A. Which normally you would think of as kind of the lifeforce of the planet.

carrie

I think of it as the largest conscious…

ross

Media network. [Chuckles.]

carrie

Yeah, exactly. It’s like a media network that came alive. Just walking through a building. It’s got a bit TV for a head. [Makes roaring monster sounds.]

ross

[In a deep, monstrous voice.] “I’m a media network! Why do I know that?!”

carrie

[In the same deep voice.] “I’m—” [They both dissolve into laughter.] “And I’m the biggest one! Oh, there’s a little conscious one. Stomp! Stomp, stomp, stomp!” [They giggle.]

ross

I love that your brain went there. ‘Cause my first thought was, “How many conscious media networks are there?” [Carrie agrees.] But I like that you’ve thought of the modification of conscious—applying to the network itself. That the network is conscious.

carrie

[In her monster voice.] The appropriate modification! The only one that makes sense! [They laugh.]

ross

So, well, I appreciate networks that are self-aware. [Chuckles.] So, my first stop was to walk right upstairs, because they had a little Gaia room. A lounge where you could hang out.

carrie

Nice.

ross

And when I first walked in, there was a bunch of TVs playing different media from the Gaia Network. And they’re sponsoring this event, and so various key notes and important talks and some of the paid talks are streaming live on Gaia Network, and you can sign up for this. So, I was immediately drawn to the very first TV. ‘Cause there are all these graphics of brains and little regions of the brain being lit up.

carrie

I don’t think I saw this room at all!

ross

Oh, really?!

carrie

Yeah! I’m trying to picture a room with a bunch of TVs, and I don’t remember it.

ross

Yeah, as you come up the stairs, it’s to your right.

carrie

Okay, so I’m Rose, going up the stairs. [Ross agrees with a chuckle.] I go to Jack’s side.

ross

It’s funny, these were not unlike Titanic’s stairs. [Carrie agrees several times.] You would go up the stairs and to your right—and then before you go down the hallway with all the ballrooms and stuff, you hang another right. So, it’s attached to that central atrium.

carrie

Yeah, I think I didn’t even go in here. Which—by the way, this place is fricking huge. [Ross agrees.] And many roomed and many layered and you can miss an entire floor and not realize.

ross

Which I did, the first day! Yeah. Carrie texted me after I’d left, on Saturday. And she said, “Oh! I found a whole other section of vendors!”

carrie

A floor!

ross

“On the lower level.” [Carrie agrees several times.] I said, “Oh really?! Okay! I will look at that tomorrow.” Well, that means you didn’t get to meet Julie. I was busy watching this thing about the brain, and I guess it was all the work of Dr. Joe Dispenza. And it was saying really wild things, like, “One hour of focused concentration on a single idea LITERALLY doubles your synaptic connections!” [Carrie disagrees with a laugh.] And I was like, “What does that—what does that mean!?” And so, I’m—like—starting to write this stuff down. But then this lady sidles over to me, and she’s a rep for Gaia. They have very nice colors, for this. Kind of a teal.

carrie

Okay. And purple?

ross

And purple!

carrie

Ope! Those are the go-to—

crosstalk

Ross and Carrie: Spiritual colors. Carrie: Yeah.

ross

So, she had them. She was wearing them. And I was like, “Oh, that is very nice.” And we had a conversation about how, you know, “It’s not fair to ask someone their favorite color. You know, I always say blue, but that’s not true. My favorite color changes all the time.” [Carrie makes a thoughtful sound.] “’Cause there’s so many good colors!” So, we were both chatting about that. And—

carrie

[Giggling.] It’s—oh, I’m happy for you both.

ross

Thank you. [Carrie agrees.] Well, I know orange is your favorite.

carrie

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

ross

Okay, and…

carrie

I don’t know, it just—it struck me as such a—like, a—like, two—I don’t know, two people who had just, like, woken up from a Rip Van Winkle style nap or something. [They laugh.] Like, where all we can relate on is, like, the basic senses. “Do you like the smell of strawberry?” “Love it.” Anyway.

ross

This is all true.

carrie

Go on.

ross

So, I can’t remember quite how we got into this conversation, but at one point she told me about a dream she had about dragons. Oh—that’s right. We were talking about animation. It was—

carrie

Oh, cool.

ross

She wanted to know what the next film was, coming from Disney animation. I mentioned Riot and The Last Dragon. And she said, “[Gasps.] I’ve been having dreams about dragons!”

carrie

Oh shit!

ross

“I’ve been feeling, like, a real connection to dragons, this year!” [Carrie affirms.] And I said, “Oh! That’s funny. I’ve kind of had this thing with peacocks." And I mention how my friend and I, you know, were talking about peacocks and now we’re seeing them all over the place. And she said, “Oh! That’s amazing. Actually, let me show you my shawl.” And so, she picks out this teal and purple shawl that she has in her bag, with—

carrie

Ooooh, yeeeah! With—

ross

With a prominent, embroidered peacock on it!

carrie

Peacock! Wow! Cool!

ross

With jewels and everything!

carrie

It’s like peacocks play a prominent role in our culture!

ross

[Giggling.] It’s a lot like that! So, I took a picture so that—to share with you. Uh, so yeah. I didn’t get to look at the displays too much, ‘cause we were engaged in conversation.

carrie

[Dramatically.] Oh my god, but Ross!

ross

Yeah?

carrie

You mentioned Dr. Joe Dispenza. [Ross affirms.] So, I looked him up.

ross

Yes! I recognize the name. I know either we’ve run into him before or I’ve read about him before.

carrie

Ooh, okay. I didn’t remember that. But it says, on his website, “Dr. Joe is a faculty member at Quantum University in Honolulu.”

ross

That sounds legit!

carrie

[Giggles.] I wonder where his doctorate’s from.

ross

[Laughing.] This is how Carrie works.

carrie

[Laughing.] Oh boy. Okay. Go on.

ross

She was telling me about the network itself. And, for a mere—eh, $11, $12 a month, you get all of this streaming content, all these amazing documentaries about everything that the conference itself is interested in. The questions of consciousness and who we are and greater purpose and nature and UFOs and… [Carrie affirms.] All of the above.

carrie

But, presumably, you couldn’t put up a video that was, like, “Nature happens the way science says it happens.”

ross

No! That would be—that’s just wrong and boring.

carrie

Okay, got it.

ross

Yeah. [Chuckles.] This is all very much alternative. So, she gave me her card. First, she gave me someone else’s card and I was like, “Oh! Is your name Powers?” And she said, “Oh, no! Sorry! How did I give you that card?”

carrie

Someone’s first name is Powers? [Ross confirms.] That’s pretty good.

ross

Right?!

carrie

Yeah! Good for them.

ross

Yeah. That was my visit there. But they also had posters for some of their featured speakers. Like Emery Smith. [Carrie lets out a long “Woooah”.] Who’d be presenting Cosmic Disclosure: Inside the Secret Space Program.

carrie

Oh shit!

ross

Only on Gaia! And boy, does he look intense, there.

carrie

Yeah, no kidding. He’s a very symmetrical person.

ross

Oh. Interesting. Yeah! Alright. [Carrie agrees.] The—and then, of course, our good old friend George Noory.

carrie

Nooryyyy!

ross

You’ve been on his show.

carrie

Well, true. Though, it wasn’t him hosting. But yes.

ross

Oh, gotcha. Beyond Belief. That’s funny. I’ve seen that in secular contexts. [Carrie hums in agreement.] Uh, quite often. Like, The Foundation Beyond Belief is a good charity network. But he is also on Gaia. “Real accounts of paranormal phenomena, conspiracies, and all things unexplained.” So, there are various posters for the things that they were either sponsoring or streaming. And some of them are people that we’ve talked about on this show before, like Graham Hancock. You may remember.

carrie

Yesss. I saw him, there! Just walking around.

ross

From our Ozark Mountain UFO conference. Oh! You saw him? Pacing the floor.

carrie

He attended a talk that I attended.

ross

Oh, hoo hoo! Interesting! Well, speaking of that, I ran into some fun people as well.

carrie

Okay. I mean, surely you couldn’t run into my… top speaker of all time.

ross

I saw, just kind of wandering around, trying to find her way, Linda—

crosstalk

Ross and Carrie: [Carrie almost sings the words.] Moulton Howe!

carrie

[Shouting.] Yeeees! Oh, I was so delighted when I found out she was gonna be speaking at this.

ross

Wearing her big glasses and—there’s something about her that reminds me a little bit of my mom. She has, just, sort of a—

carrie

Oh, okay!

ross

Not in terms of what she’s saying, but just physicality-wise.

carrie

Hm. Okay.

ross

And, uh, she was wondering around in a black leather jacket and bright red shirt and, yeah, her big purple glasses. So, I just walked up to her and she was talking to someone. So, I kinda leaned in for a second. And she seemed available and I thought, “Oh, later on once people realize who you are, you’re gonna be besieged.” [Carrie agrees.] “I’ll never get this chance, again!” So, I took a picture with her and—

carrie

Oh, so jealous.

ross

I asked her, “So, what are the big things going on right now? Like, what’s the latest?” And she said, “Oh, wow, well, we just had a panel, yesterday. And it’s just great to be talking with people who are on the forefront of what’s going on. And I—you know, we made new discoveries on the panel!”

carrie

Wooooah!

ross

Yeah, and I’m thinking—

carrie

That’s hard to do! [Laughs.]

ross

[Laughing.] Yeah, like—so—so you had a synthesis of made-up stories about government coverups and alien discoveries? Onstage? Is that what happened there?

carrie

Yeah. So, to back up a second, for context. Yeah. Linda Moulton Howe is a—oh boy. [Ross laughs and affirms each of Carries points.] She is a purveyor of claims that include: humanity was seeded by aliens, we’re in contact with a number of alien races, and she started off her career by investigating cattle mutilations. She was one of the OG people who was like, “Wait a minute—cattle mutilations are aliens.” And so, she did a documentary on local TV, called Earth Files, that won a regional Emmy. [Ross makes a sound of surprise.] And that kind of became her career, from there on.

ross

Vaulted her into the stratosphere.

carrie

So, we’ve seen her a number of times speak. And she really is—I think my favorite speaker that we see a lot. Because you never know [laughing] what’s gonna come out of her face! [Ross chuckles.] As someone said, at the UFO conference.

ross

Yeah, it was at the Ozark Mountain Conference. The MC—someone was saying, “Oh, that was so great, what Linda Moulton Howe had to say.” [Laughing.] And his measured response that was, “You never know what’ll come out of her face.” [They wheeze into laughter.] It just—such a good description.

carrie

So good. So good.

ross

‘Cause you never know.

carrie

You really don’t.

ross

So, in this case, I prompted something new out of her face, which was, “Hey, what’s going on?” And so, she said, “Well, really all the action is in [articulating] Ant-arct-ica.” And I said, “Oh yeah, I’ve heard about some pyramids down there.” And she said, “Oh, I’m sure there’s a pyramid, but I mean—” [Carrie laughs.] “They’ve got 13 acer rooms. And—"

carrie

Damn.

ross

“—They’re inside of, like, 62 acer facilities. And these were being built 34 million years ago! So, you have to ask—why has this been in development and kept a secret?!”

carrie

[Amused.] You do need to ask that, yes.

ross

[Chuckles.] And I remember—she didn’t say it here, but in previous talks she’s talked about, like, tunnels being built in Mars and—it’s so wild! You just never know where she’s gonna go with this stuff!

carrie

You just don’t know! [Ross laughs.] And she has a very popular YouTube Earth Files where she—[laughs] shows you her cats a looot. She’s just—she’s the BEST! She really is. So, I knew that she was gonna be there. I was actually looking for her. I’ll tell you more about that. [Ross hums in acknowledgment.] But I was so delighted, and I immediately bought a ticket to her talk, so that was—that was the first thing I did. Gotta get my LMH in.

ross

Yeah, absolutely. Not to be confused with LRH.

carrie

Oh! True!

ross

So, our conversation quickly turned into her saying, “But do you know where the elevators are? I’m trying to get upstairs for—” And she was making it sound like some important meeting she needed to be at. [Carrie affirms several times.] Probably gonna learn some new secrets about undercover government operations.

carrie

Who knows how many whistleblowers are there!

ross

Oh, my goodness, there could be so many.

carrie

‘Cause that’s another thing about her, is that she will just tell you about whistleblowers she just met and you’re like, “Well—oh—who are these people?”

ross

Who aaare these people?!

carrie

You met someone who “worked for the CIA” at this conference? [Ross hums skeptically.] Uh, did you check it? How? How did you check it, Linda Moulton? How did you check it?

ross

[Laughs.] Then I was telling her, “Aw, I’m sorry, I actually haven’t seen an elevator this whole time, but I’m sure there’s gotta be one towards the center.” So, I’m the blind leading the blind, trying to help Linda Moulton Howe find an elevator somewhere.

carrie

It seems like the kind of place you’d elevate people.

ross

So, I walked down to the lobby with her and we kind of searched around for a bit. I was like, [mumbled] “I don’t know, good luck! I hope you find it.” [Carrie cackles.] ‘Cause I realized I was just getting in the way, at this point. [Carrie agrees.] I’m sure she found an elev—later on, I saw an elevator and I was like—

carrie

I know she did, ‘cause—

ross

“OH! Were close! I could have led her over here!” But I didn’t know.

carrie

She found that or the stairs, because the next time I saw her, it was a floor up!

ross

Okay! Linda Moulton knows Howe (how) to get around.

carrie

Mmmmm-hm! Mm-hmmm!

ross

So, uh, that was pretty delightful. Buuut, I also saw another person that we mentioned in our Contact in the Desert investigation.

carrie

Another UFO conference.

ross

Yeah! So, I—at this point, I was wandering up on the second floor…

carrie

[Delighted.] Ooh! I know who it’s gonna be! And [dropping her voice into a deep growl] I’m exciteeed!

ross

[Chuckles.] There’s all these booths for—oh my goodness, there’s so many things. There’s these really beautiful amethyst geodes and there’s, like, another booth with a bunch of Tibetan singing bowls. [Carrie affirms.] There’s another one with malas.

carrie

Uh-huh. I think there’s paintings on that floor, too.

ross

Oh yeah. Oh yeah! You ended up buying one of the paintings. So, a lot of interesting things going on. Oh yeah, the malas booth had a really interesting pamphlet that we both took photos of that explained—well, a) what a mala is. It’s—I guess the Sanskrit word for a garland, string of beads used in meditation to count mantras, prayers, or intentions. But the important thing is that they explained why a mala has 108 beads.

carrie

Yes! And we had heard about the number 108 when we hung out with Amma the hugging saint.

ross

Right! And also, in our “Vital Tones” episode, that was one of the important numbers there for some of the healing. So, the number 108 has a very powerful significance in the science and spirituality of India. Did you know that there are 108 letters in the Sanskrit alphabet?

carrie

I didn’t!

ross

But now you do! Vedic mathematicians measured the sun’s diameter to be 108 times larger than the diameter of the Earth.

carrie

Okay. [Ross laughs.] Were they right?

ross

Uh, they’re approximately right.

carrie

Oh! Okay.

ross

Yeah. Let’s see, they also measured the distance between the sun and the Earth to be 108 times the sun’s diameter, which obviously—you know—we don’t have a circular orbit, so on average that is about right. [Carrie affirms several times.] But also, it’s arbitrary. Why is that important? Is it? Maybe.

carrie

I mean, I guess if you find that that number keeps cropping up in a meaningful way… cool.

ross

Yeah, or maybe it’s tied to gravitational force, somehow. [Carrie agrees.] Interesting.

carrie

I mean, you know. 3.14, we remember that one. [Ross agrees several times.] It keeps popping up! Just keeps following circles around.

ross

There are 108 sacred texts of the Upanishads. [Carrie affirms several times as he continues.] 108 sacred holy sites in India. 108 acupressure-like points on the body.

carrie

So, some of these things are starting to feel like less confirmation and more like, “We already thought this number was holy and we started ascribing it to various things.”

ross

Yeah, like when Newton added indigo as a color of the spectrum—

carrie

So, we would have ROYGBIV.

ross

So, it would be seven, right. ‘Cause that’s a holy number. So, you get the idea. There were some other uses of 108. But I’m burying the lead, here. Yes, the next person that I saw was none other than [dropping to a lower register] Jimmy Church!

carrie

[In a low rumble.] Jimmy Chuuurch!

ross

[Dramatically.] Jimmy Church. So, he’s the host of the show Fade to Black.

carrie

Yeeeah. An internet radio show.

ross

Yeah! I saw him walking amongst those other booths, and I was kind of walking over to get close to him and someone said, “Oh! I need to see your wristband.” [Carrie hums in acknowledgement.] ‘Cause I guess there were gonna be workshops or talks down that hallway. And I said, “Oh! Sorry.” And at that point, I hadn’t even picked up my registration.

carrie

Oh gosh! Okay.

ross

Yeah! I’m just wandering about, having a good old time, and no one’s really checked at this point. So! “Oh! Sorry!” And so, he wandered back toward his booth. There were three other people behind the booth, including a guy who’s kind of like a handsome, aged, rocker fellow. [Carrie hums in acknowledgment.] But just to talk about Jimmy, for a second. So, we’ve mentioned him before and the reason we keep saying [dropping to a lower register] Jimmy Church— [Carrie echoes it.] —is because when he’s hosting his show or when he was on the stage at Contact in the Desert, [dropping back into the low growl] he would just constantly be talking like this! It would just seem like such an affect in tone, to me.

carrie

Yeah, a little bit of a put on.

ross

[Continuing the voice.] So, I was really curious to see the—you know, if he’s just walking around, how does he talk?

carrie

[High pitched and nasally.] “Hey there, Ross! It’s me, Jimmy Church!”

ross

[Still in a low register, but not as deep.] Yeah, it turns out when he’s talking, you know, it’s more like this! You know, this is just sort of his normal voice. But—

carrie

Still deep but—

ross

Yeah, definitely deep. But then, [dropping into an almost incoherent low grumble] he really could sound like this when he’s on the radio. [Carrie laughs.] So, uh—someone else was talking to him, so I walked up to that Fade to Black booth and they were selling a number of things, including—they had a Fade to Black roast—a dark roast. Great. You can get some coffee.

carrie

A what?! Oooh! Coffee. Got it. Got it. [Ross confirms.] I was picturing, like, a pig on a spit! And I was like, “That’s terrible!”

ross

[Chuckling.] Oh, no.

carrie

I also don’t know my meats. [They laugh.] Would you call that roast? I guess probably.

ross

Yeah?

carrie

Yeah? Okay.

ross

Yeah, if it’s on a spit, you’re roasting it, eh?

carrie

Alright, don’t email me about this. It’s sad.

ross

Nor me. But they were also selling their Black Moon Organic Full-Spectrum Vegan CBD Wellness Tincture.

carrie

Oookay!

crosstalk

Ross: That’s a lot of words, there. Carrie: Now I’m listening! Ross: [Laughing.] Yeah! Carrie: Okay!

ross

So, they got—the aging, handsome, rocker guy tells me about this really cool tincture. And he’s saying it has 1000mg+ CBD. [Carrie affirms.] And so, I’m thinking, “Okay, well you said 1000mg. That’s a gram.”

carrie

[Beat.] Oh, right! Uh-huh.

ross

But yeah. It’s the metric system, like— [Carrie agrees.] You just wanted to make it sound bigger than it was.

carrie

Oooh, I really—actually I bet he was told that number and he never thought about it.

ross

Maybe, okay. But I said, “Oh, 1000mg.” And he said, “Plus!”

crosstalk

Ross: Oh, wow, okay! Carrie: Oh okay, so one-point-something, grams.

ross

Right. So, then he’s telling me a bit about how it’s prepared and I’m thinking, “Oooh.” So, I said, “Is this a homeopathic preparation?” [Carrie makes a sound of understanding.] And he said, “Yeahhh!” And I was like, “Oooh, okay. Huh. Powerful.”

carrie

[Giggles.] As strong or stronger!

ross

It looked like he thought I was already on the hook to buy this thing. [Carrie makes an “oooh” sound.] And so, there’s so much of this at this conference where you just—at some point you have to walk away. [Carrie agrees several times.] There’s a lot of hard pressure sales tactics. And people just—you know, they look so desperate and you wanna help them out. Which is always my first inclination. I’m like, “Let me give you money just to take the pained expression off your face!” But I—

carrie

I get it.

ross

No, I don’t want it.

carrie

CBD is the non-psychoactive element in marijuana and hemp. And some people claim that it makes you calm or has an analgesic effect--meaning it dulls your pain. But it seems like the science is, like, not all there yet. There’s a really good Sawbones episode about a Consumer Reports report where they bought a bunch of that stuff and, like, half of it didn’t have any [laughing] CBD in it!

ross

Wooow.

carrie

Yeah. Terrible.

ross

And I’m guessing this one in particular would not show any signs of CBD having been anywhere near it.

carrie

Good point.

ross

Yeah, I did get to meet Jimmy Ch—[dropping into the low announcer voice] Jimmy Church. [Returning to his normal voice.] Though he was just Jimmy Church at the—at that point. And I told him, “Hey! I’ve listened to your show.” And he said, [speaking deeply] “Oh, you were on the show?!” “Oh no. No, just [chuckles] listened to it, but very nice to meet you and can I take a picture with you?” [Deeply.] “Yeah, you can do whatever you want.” [Carrie affirms.] So, I… humped his leg.

carrie

[Laughs.] You said do what thou wiiiilt!

ross

[Chuckling.] But yeah! Already. I hadn’t even gotten my wristband and I’ve met two celebrities.

carrie

Oh, my goodness.

ross

At least in our world, celebrities.

carrie

Oh, totally. Oh yeah. No, that’s—that’s an exciting morning. Now, what time would you say this is? ‘Cause I haven’t arrived yet in our chronology.

ross

Oh, okay. I took the picture with Jimmy Church just after 11:30. [Carrie affirms several times.] I think you may be wandering around downstairs or somewhere, at this point. ‘Cause we didn’t arrive too far apart from each other. We should mention another celebrity who was at this conference.

carrie

Russell Brand! [Ross agrees several times.] Yes! Of Forgetting Sarah Marshall fame. The only thing I’ve ever seen him in.

ross

That’s funny. My immediate go to is, “He used to be married to Katy Perry.”

carrie

That’s true too. [Ross agrees.] Took a picture of her in bed, tweeted it, she was very upset.

ross

Oh really?

carrie

Yeah, he seems [chuckles] like, not the greatest. But! Maybeee he’s doing better, because I know he’s in his sobriety, now. And maybe he’s turned a leaf.

ross

You know, that’s maybe what his featured keynote talk was about. Recovery! Freedom from our addictions.

carrie

Great. That sounds like something I should pay, what? $100 for?

ross

$110.00

carrie

[Frustrated.] Oh, my gooood.

ross

He had two. The other one was a… workshop? I think? Called “Recovery Live”. An hour and a half. Also $110 to get into. [Carrie makes a shocked “whooo” sound.] So, I thought—[sighs].

crosstalk

Carrie: Rough. Ross: And then, like, I’ve heard him in interviews. [Carrie agrees several times as he continues.]

ross

And he strikes me as one of those people who just—he loves to talk, he loves to put things out there, he’s very energetic about it. But I feel like if you analyze what he’s saying—which can sound eloquent—there’s very little actual substance there. And, you know, he’s one of those people like, “Oh, I’m just putting questions out there. I’m just saying this. Oh, I’m just exploring this! Isn’t this interesting that we’re talking about this? But I’m—” You know, it’s like, when you come full circle, like, have you actually put anything out there? I don’t know if you have! So, I didn’t feel like that was worth $110 to me, that day.

carrie

It’s interesting, because that’s making me think of me and you. ‘Cause one thing that I always think about is how—okay, [chuckles] this is the analogy that comes to mind in my weird head. [Ross affirms.] You have a—you have a cross-stitch, embroidery thing. What do you call that?

ross

Cross-stitch.

carrie

I’m clearly ready to give this analogy. [They laugh.] Just, like! Like, embroidery on a little—

ross

Screen.

carrie

Loop thingy.

ross

That’s funny. It’s—

carrie

I’ll just say a pillow!

ross

Which looks like a lot like our little pop filters, here. [Carrie agrees.] Yeah. Okay.

carrie

But, okay. You look at the embroidery and you’re like, “Oh, that’s really beautiful, intricate, interesting.” But you cannot have that without the fabric underneath that the beautiful embroidery’s going on. [Ross affirms.] I feel like I’m good at, like, connecting thoughts and stuff, but I would never remember 90% of the things we cover if you weren’t there with the pillow.

ross

[Surprised.] Oh! Okay! [Carrie laughs.] Well, thank you!

carrie

You’re like—you’re very good at, like, keeping a lot of facts and details and, like, really—I don’t know. You’re very smart! I just come along and I, like, knit the thing at the end. [Ross thanks her.] You’re welcome. [Laughs.]

ross

It’s a very lovely embroidery. It’s good teamwork.

carrie

So, anyway, I feel like what you described Russell Brand—he’s like, all the thread. It’s all just thread. [Ross hums in understanding.] I haven’t pulled in any data or facts or reference materials at all! It’s just all the embroidery. Here it is, bleh.

ross

I see where you’re going with that and, uh—well thank you. That’s very nice. [Carrie chuckles.] Well, it would be a very boring podcast if it was just me recounting every single detail that I wanted to communicate. Listeners, you should know that Carrie is the one who forces me to eventually move on, ‘cause otherwise I would still be telling our Ayahuasca story. So, it’s good—

carrie

You need the pillow. You need the embroidery.

ross

It’s good teamwork. I like that. So, yeah. Russell Brand, wasn’t feeling it that day. Not $110 worth.

carrie

Yeah, god, me neither.

ross

Sorry, listeners.

carrie

Yeah, but—you know. Go watch him on YouTube. There’s a million things of him.

ross

Ooor! Sign up for Gaia, the world’s largest conscious media network, and you could probably see his talk there! [Carrie agrees.] For a mere $11 or $12 per month.

crosstalk

Carrie: Do it. Ross: That’s what Julie told me. I’m not gonna look it up.

carrie

[Giggles.] Yeah, he ended up being in the room next to mine for another talk, and he was so loooud! And everyone kept clapping for him, and I happened to be in, like, a very sort of [whispering for emphasis] serious, soft spoken talk.

crosstalk

Ross: Oooh no! Carrie: So, it was very irritating.

ross

I’ve been in that situation before. Well, on our investigations where you’re trying to hear something about the sacred masters and there’s music piping in from the next room. And clapping.

carrie

And you’re like, “They’re having more fun!”

ross

Well, I hope it was 110 decibels.

carrie

Probably was. Or 108. [Ross makes an “oooh!” sound and laughs.] He should have made his talk $108!

ross

You’re right!

carrie

Ugh.

crosstalk

Ross: Oh, missed— Carrie: Missed opportunity! Ross: [Chuckling.] Indeed. Uh, so what were you up to?

carrie

Oh! You know, okay. I was there. Well, lets see. When I got in there, it was February 8th, 2020. And it felt like it was—

ross

Oh yeah, that’s important context. February 8th and 9th. Those are the days we were there.

carrie

Okay. So, I get there and oh my god! I walked into the exhibit floor and it is sensorially overwhelming. [Ross agrees.] It is so much!

ross

Oh yeah, you’re talking about, like, the vendor boothsss. [Carrie agrees.] Oh! Yes! It is—

carrie

Oh my god. The sighs, the sounds, the smells! It’s just so much stimulation!

ross

Right! Like, seriously, do—

carrie

[Laughing.] We’re both touching our faces!

crosstalk

Ross: We’re covering our eyes! Carrie: Just with the memory! Oh god!

ross

The memory is a sensory overloooad! [Carrie laughs.] Yeah, just imagine every investigation we’ve talked about, with people trying to sell us devices and energy systems and preach spiritual messages and tell you about their guru. And it’s just everywhere, all around, from all angles. [Carrie agrees.] Hundreds of—probably, like, 108 booths.

carrie

Yeah, it’s like if you had a fever dream after listening to a bunch of our episodes and then, like— [Ross laughs weakly.] Everyone we’ve ever met is like, [nasally] “Do you wanna join thiiiis? Do you wanna join THIIIIS?!” And it’s, like, coming in and out of cloud. [They laugh.] That’s this conference!

ross

I’m picturing it like a Baz Luhrmann film. [Carrie agrees.] You know, where everything’s in this fish-eye camera and people, like, right up in your face. It’s crazy.

carrie

Oh my god. It’s exactly like that.

ross

It’s wild.

carrie

I walked in and I—within a few feet was like, “Oh god, I have to do this for two days. Oh my god. Okay. Okay.” But yeah. There’s hundreds of vendors there. [Ross agrees several times.] And so, yeah. I started walking around and the first person I interacted with was a guy who was testing chakras. So, he had a sign up that said, “Get your chakras tested!” And I thought, “Oh! Cool!” And so, I said, “So, how much is this?” And he said, “Weeeell, a half hour psychic reading is this much, and a channeling is this much, and this is this—” And I was like, “Oh, well wait, the sign is for chakra balancing. How much is that?” And he, [laughs], he like leans over and looks at the sign on his own table and he’s like, “Huh!” [They laugh.] “Okay! Uuh, hmmm.”

ross

“I didn’t know I could balance chakras!

carrie

[Laughing.] Yeah! So, he’s like—

ross

“But I said I could!”

carrie

[Laughs.] So, he kind of caucuses with the woman next to him. [Carrie makes grumbling noises to imitate hushed speech.] [Ross wheezes with laughter.] And then he’s like, “I guess it’s free?” And I’m like, “[Beat.] Greeeat… I’ll take one!” [Ross agrees.] So, [barely able to speak through laughter] I sit down with him. He has his laptop and he’s just click, click, click, click, click, click, click. “Okay, I guess I—hmm. I pull up this proooogram…” [Ross makes a sound of utter disbelief. They laugh.] I mean, that was so weird! “Okay. Here we go. And then… Okaaay. Alright.”

ross

I feel like you could have just as easily said, “You know what? Let me look up on my phone how to balance a chakra. I’ll do it for you!

carrie

Right?! Right! Totally! And he’s like—

ross

At the same value!

carrie

He’s barely glancing at me while his eyes are locked on the computer, ‘cause he’s clearly doing this for the first time ever! [Ross giggles.] And he grabs a pair of headphones and he’s like, “Okay, um… h-here.” [Laughing.] And, like, hand them to me with no certainty. [Ross makes a sound of disbelief.] Okay, then I put them on my ears! And then he’s reading the instructions as he’s telling me this. He’s like, “Okay. You’re gonna listen for some clicks. It might be loud. But I still need you to press it against your ears, really hard.” I went, “Okay.” [Ross affirms several times as she continues.] So, I’m pressing these headphones against my ears. Luckily, it wasn’t that loud. But it does go [makes a breathy “kuh-kuh-kuh-kuh” clicking sound]. You know. It’s working. It’s doing something. Okay, so, “Click-click-click-click-click-click-click-click-click,” and—

ross

Wh-what’s it connected to?

carrie

His computer, I think. [Ross affirms.] Yeah. And then up comes a readout of me. Of my body and my chakras on his screen.

ross

Okay, just based on the input of playing a sound to your ears. [Carrie hums several affirmatives.] Okay. And it—was it just connected via one of these, like, 8th inch cables? To the computer?

carrie

That’s a very good Ross question. See, this is why you need the pillow! [Laughs.]

ross

‘Cause [laughs]—‘cause, well, I’m just wondering—like—what, information could possibly be coming back from the headphones to the computer?

carrie

Right. I suspect none.

ross

[Laughing.] Yeah! I suspect that as well.

carrie

But if I had to guess, I’d say a USB cable? But—

ross

Okay, alright. Well, at least then you can have a bi-directional, uuh… transfer of information.

carrie

But that’s only a guess. I…

ross

I mean, theoretically, you could, over the—yeah, I’ve—yeah, you could have, like, a microphone. Okay. Alright.

carrie

Yeah, I don’t—

ross

I’m thinking about this too hard.

carrie

[Laughs.] You’re thinking about it more than he ever had! Okay, up pops this. And as you can see, Ross: if you walked up to this, you’d be like, “Well, that’s Carrie! There she is!”

ross

Oh, yeah! You’ve got a cross section of somebody’s liver and lungs and other internal organs. It looks like you just cut a cross section into a cadaver. [Carrie agrees.] Which is probably what that photo is.

carrie

Yeah! Probably. But that’s meeee!

ross

And it’s—yeah, got little, yellow labeled numbers.

carrie

Yeah. So, some are yellow, some are white, some are red. One is black. So—

ross

Were you splenetic?

carrie

What’s that mean?

ross

Bad tempered or spiteful.

carrie

Not yet! Most of the numbers say two. There are a few ones, a few threes, one four, and one five. So, he explained, “Okay. These are all on a scale of one to seven, where seven is emergency problem, one is—"

ross

Goat sperm.

carrie

[Breaking into a laugh.] One is, uh, functioning perfectly. [Ross affirms.] So, he said, like, “Twos, threes, we don’t really worry about.”

ross

That’s always weird, when the bottom of the scale is the desired thing.

carrie

I know. I know. It was so distracting, the whole time he was talking. I was like, “Seven bad, seven bad, not good, seven bad.”

ross

It’s like asking me to read from right to left. [Carrie agrees.] You know, we’re just not built that way in this society.

carrie

Right. He points, “Okay, anything that’s a five or up, we really should pay attention to.” [Ross affirms several times.] I only have one five. And it is—I don’t know if you can even see that, but it’s on the cadaver’s left side. Kind of like between a couple ribs, on the very outer—

ross

Oooh! These are little hexagons! [Carrie agrees.] Okay. It almost feels like Settlers of Catan being played on a dead body. Where’s that five? I don’t see it.

carrie

Oh, it’s—okay, so it’s that little guy. [Ross makes a sound of realization.] I’m gonna zoom out again.

ross

Oh, it’s a different color. Oh okay. [Carrie agrees.] Yeah.

carrie

Yeah. It’s like, right under—like—my armpit.

ross

Okay. Well, what are they gonna do about it?

carrie

Okay. So, that’s bad. So, I’m like, “Well, what does that mean?” Okay, so he says, “Well that’s—"

ross

Means you need to pay for a $40 realignment.

carrie

Nope! He says, “Okay, that’s your coronal [struggling to remember] thorough-calcifie,” or something like that, I’m trying to read his screen. [Ross giggles.] “That’s a problem with your heart chakra.” I’m like, “Oh no! So, like, love?” [Flatly.] “No. Your heart chakra has to do with your physical heart or neurological, endocrine, digestion, respiratory, or cardiovascular problems.”

ross

Those are a lot of problems.

carrie

That’s… so many potential problems!

ross

Here’s a haystack! [Carrie laughs.] You might have a needle in there!

carrie

But I’m thinking, at first, as he’s—like—listing these things, I’m thinking like, “Ha-ha, everybody’s got a problem in one of those.” And then I’m like, “I don’t know, I really don’t! None of those things bother me.” And right under—right under it—is, like, migraines. Tension headaches. Anxiety. [Ross makes an “oooh” sound.] All the things that I actually do have! And that one was functioning perfect.

ross

That’s not in the category. Ah-ha-ha. [Carrie affirms.] I sense a flaw in his system!

carrie

Yup! And then there was a [laughing] second diagram. This one’s even better. This is also me. [Ross makes a sound of surprise.] This stick figure.

ross

Oh, I see. Layered on top of a skeleton, we have these hexagons. So, the twos are hexagons. Those are fine. Threes are triangles. Red triangles—orange triangles. Something like that. Okay. So, you’re all twos and threes.

carrie

Yeah. So, there I guess I’m fiiine?

ross

Yeah, good job. Congratulations.

carrie

He couldn’t really explain, though—you know, I’m looking at this and I’m like, “Okaaaay, so now my upper body looks fine. Where’d that five goooo?” And he’s like, “Yeah, it’s—it’s an imperfect system.” [They laugh.] “You know, I’m not—I, you know, I’m kind of new at this particular program.” Like, yeah it shows! So, uh, he didn’t charge me for that. [Ross affirms with amusement.] And then he didn’t charge me for that and then he didn’t try to upsell me to get anything else. So, I was like, “Okay! Well! Byeeee!” [They laugh.] Yeah. Great salesman.

ross

I guess, at that point, you’re like, “Eeh, this hasn’t been that impressive. I’m not gonna successful if I try to sell her on a $40 realignment or whatever.”

carrie

And maybe, you know, he was thinking, like, “Oh, she’s kind of doing me the favor of being my guinea pig on this first one while I figure this out.”

ross

Yeah! Now he’ll be ready for the next person. He can act super confident about it.

carrie

Exactly. He’ll be like, “You got a click! You gotta hold it to your ears!”

ross

Oh, I wish that had been me! [Chuckles.] [Carrie agrees.] I didn’t visit that particular booth.

carrie

Yeah, you could have been the second. So, then I went a row over and got stopped by this woman who was selling sticky pads. So, they were these little—[breaks into a laugh]. [Ross affirms with hesitation.] It’s only gonna get weirder, folks! They were these little, round stickers. And she said, “Okay! What you do, is you put one on your neck and you put one on your side and energy is gonna go between those two sticky pads. So, you have to have two. You have to complete the circuit.” And she’s explaining all this—

ross

Oh yeah. Takes two points to define a line.

carrie

Sure. As she’s explaining all this and, uh, neglects to tell me what it does. She’s just [laughing] telling me, like, “You gotta put it on yourself and you get—you complete the circuit!” And I’m like, “Uh-huh. And then what?” “Oh! Well, and then you just wait!” “Right. Sorry. What—but what does it—what’s it—what’s it fooor?” [Ross laughs.] “Oh! Oh. Yeah, y-y-y-yeah! Well, uh. It’s for, like—mmm, what’s it for? It’s for—like, ooooh, just like—a generaaaaal…”

ross

You’re asking really tough questions!

carrie

[Wheezing with laughter.] “Just, like, general, like—aaaaah, you know? Just like, really feeling good! Really healthy. Really, oooh, just to the top of my gaaame!” Wh-wh-what!? [Carrie agrees several times as Ross speaks.]

ross

I feel like—so, our approach, I feel, is so different from everybody else I would assume was attending this conference. It makes me think of how, like, back in the day you would have a movie with zombies and, like, the zombies just show up and they’re terrifying and people run away from them. But nowadays, if you make a zombie movie, you have to explain, like, is it a virus? Or, like, what is the transmission mechanism and what are the rules of this zombie outbreak? And, like, everything has to be really explained out. So, you have to start with that little backstory. Whereas, back in the day you could just have monsters or whatever show up. So, I feel like—at this conference, usually it’s just assumed that whatever you’re offering, “Yeah! This is valid and necessary!” But you and I are like, “Wait—okay, what is this actually affecting?”

carrie

Right. What’s this fooor?

ross

What is it doing—?

carrie

Why!?

ross

What is it doing to the cell? How do the magnets connect to my happiness? [Laughs.] [Carrie laughs and agrees.] And I just feel like, for other people—even the vendors themselves—it’s a secondary question as to what the real mechanistic explanation is.

carrie

Yeah. Although, I think she was especially bad at her job. [Laughing.] Like, she wasn’t— [Ross agrees several times as Carrie talks.] Most of these people will still, at least, be like, “And it heals you!” Or something! But she finally got there. She was like, “For some people, it clears up their skin. It can just do general healing. Pain management. Energy.” And then she showed me a picture of this woman who was probably in, like, her 70s. And she’s pointing at the “before” photo, where the woman’s not smiling. She’s like, “Look at this. I mean, bags under her eyes and crow’s feet and la-la-la-la.” And then this photo! This better lit photo, where she’s smiling and has gotten more sleep—thiiiiis is when she had done the patches! And look how much better she looks! And it’s a better picture, but it’s still—you know, the same woman at the same point in life. I was like, “Oooh, okay. Cool, cool, cool.” So, she put one on the back of my neck and then another one—she—you gotta complete the circuit, Ross! You must complete the circuit.

ross

Oh yeah, right away.

carrie

So, she puts the other on, like, my right hip. And she says, “Okay, now. I can tell you’re a scientifically minded person. So—"

ross

‘Cause you asked that one question.

carrie

‘Cause you asked what it’s for!

ross

“What does this do?” [They laugh.] Nobody else asked that.

carrie

“So, why don’t you go home and sleep with it and, you know, if you feel something, come back.” And I’m like, “Oh! Yeah. Okay! That’s—I like it.”

ross

She’s gonna send you home with the product?!

carrie

Yeah, well they’re disposable little circles of plastic.

ross

Oh, okay. It’s already gonna be thrown away, anyway.

carrie

Yeah. For sure. Yeah, so I—

ross

So, now you’re set for life. You’ve got it.

carrie

I’ve [laughing] completed my circuit. No! ‘Cause she’s like, “Now, this is reeeally important: do not leave it on for more than 12 hours.”

ross

Or what’ll happen?

carrie

[Laughing.] Right. I’m like, “Why? What’s in it?” [Ross wheezes into a laugh.] “Well—I mean, it’s proprietary. So, it’s like—but it’s—but it’s very powerful and you just don’t wanna—you don’t wanna have it—"

ross

Why?

carrie

[Through laughter.] “You don’t wanna have it for—[wheezes].”

ross

[Wheezing with laughter.] Why don’t—what is—?! What’ll happen?

carrie

Okay. Okay! I’ll—

ross

Will my toes fall off?!

carrie

Is that because I need to apply a new one? ‘Cause that’s suspicious. [Ross laughs.] But, okay. So, then I—she said, um—I can’t remember if I prompted this or not, but she did say that they had studies on the website. And I’m like, “Oh! Love it! Okay! I’m gonna go to the—I’ll go to the website and look at the studies!” [Ross agrees.] And she’s like, “Oh.” And she used the phrase “double-blind.” [Ross makes a sound of delighted surprise.] And I was like, “Sweet! Okay! You know what you’re talking about, alright!” And I went and looked. [Laughing.] Definitely not true. It—I—it was, like, studies that are, you know, really—people do this all the time with the stuff we look at. And it will be like, “Oh, this study shows that heat does a thing to calm you. Okay, well there’s kind of heat activated in this patch.”

ross

One piece of our claim, here, is buttressed by this study, which wasn’t about this product. [Carrie agrees.] Isn’t about this process.

carrie

It was all that.

ross

But it supports our general synthesis. [Carrie agrees.] Yep. Yep.

carrie

So, it turns out this thing is an MLM. It’s called Lifewave X39. They have great videos on their website.

ross

Yeah?

carrie

Oh, yes. A lot of people being like, [in a silly, low voice] “I’m a doctor. And in 30 years, I’ve never seen anything like this.” [Ross laughs.] Which, A) Okay. And B) they didn’t put the names of any of the doctors on the bottom of the screen, in the lower third.

ross

Okay. No Chirons.

carrie

Then I went to the website and looked up the only doctor who’s listed on the website, and he has been barred from prescribing medicine because he was prescribing himself injectable Demerol for years.

ross

[Quietly.] Oh, goodness.

carrie

Yeah. His name’s Dr. Haltiwanger.

ross

See, this is Carrie. [Laughs.]

carrie

Well! You’re welcome, everybody! Sooo, anyway.

ross

So, should we buy in? Is that what you’re saying?

crosstalk

Carrie: Uh, probably? Ross: I feel convinced. Carrie: That saleswoman has been texting me quite a bit. So. Ross: Oooh no, she got your number. Carrie: Yep. Literally. Ross: And, aw, poor dear. She’s probably paid $500 for an introductory package. Carrie: I knooow. I know.

ross

All she has to do is just sell all of these and she’ll turn a profit! [Carrie agrees.] And recruit five new members.

carrie

Yeah, so—oh yeah, we’re talking about multilevel marketing here, which is a—to put it unfavorably, it’s a pyramid scheme. [Ross agrees.] Yeah. It’s technically not, according to whatever [laughs]. Government. But it is.

ross

It’s a mathematical impossibility that you will actually make money from this, unless you’re at the top of this.

carrie

Unless you founded the gosh darn thing.

ross

Pyramid-like structure.

carrie

And if you did, you suck. Okay. So—

ross

Well, Carrie, I can’t wait to hear what you saw next on the show floor, but—

carrie

Okay, what I saw next was—

ross

Nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-no, I—you know what. I can wait. Because first I want you to tell me about websites, in general. [Carrie affirms.] ‘Cause you were telling me about this website. Would you say it was professionally designed?

carrie

Oh, good question. Let me take a look at it. [Beat.] Uuum. It looks gooood. It could look betterrrrr.

ross

Okay, well let’s say—

carrie

I want it to be more, like, beautiful.

ross

Okay. What if I wanted to design a website, but I wanted to design it beautiful?

carrie

Mm! Okay, so like, you’re selling your own patch that does a questionable thing. [Ross agrees.] And you want it to at least look good.

ross

Yeah! Right.

carrie

You should use Squarespace!

ross

Oooh! Do they allow you to blog or publish content?

carrie

Oh, yeah! Totally. Yeah. You can do pretty much anything that’s legal on a website, on Squarespace.

ross

Okay. What if I wanna promote my physical or online business?

carrie

Oh yeah! Oh! Oh!

ross

Or maybe, like, announce an upcoming event or special project?

carrie

Oh, absolutely. If you’re getting married, say, you could put your wedding website on there. And it’ll look great. [Carrie agrees several times as Ross speaks.]

ross

Tell me about these designers. I assume there’s templates, but are these—like—regional class designers?

carrie

[Carrie make a negative “mm-mm” sound.] No. It’s not like Linda Moulton Howe’s regional Emmy. This is a worldwide honor. The designers of the templates at Squarespace are world class, Ross!

ross

Oh! Wow! Okay! [Carrie affirms.] I’m interested, now. Can you describe, maybe, the level of eCommerce functionality?

carrie

Yeah. Okay. Well, you know—like, sometimes you have sort of a middling eCommerce functionality? [Ross agrees.] This is, like, a powerful eCommerce functionality. I mean, truly functional, truly powerful, truly “e”, truly “commerce”.

ross

Wow! Okay. Well, if I wanna buy a new domain name with an extension, am I stuck with “.com”?

carrie

Ye—nooooo!

ross

Really?!

carrie

Yeah! I pulled the rug out from under you, there. There are over 200 extensions.

ross

I can’t even think of that many extensions.

carrie

Me neither! [Ross affirms.] I mean, can you think of 200 people you’ve ever met? Probably not! [Beat.] Well, maybe with enough time. But! [They laugh.] Not off the top of your head! And off the top of your head, you could also not name the 200 extensions! And I’ve made a point. [They giggle.]

ross

I would imagine they probably have customer support of some sort. [Carrie agrees.] Maybe during certain hours?

carrie

Uh, well! Yes, all the hours. They actually have 24/7 award winning—

ross

[In disbelief.] Every one of the hours?! [Carrie confirms.] This is amazing.

carrie

And that’s award-winning customer support, as well. [Ross affirms.] This customer support got a regional Emmy.

ross

Okay, so let’s say I start building my website. Can I start building it without paying for it?

carrie

Uh, you can. Yeah! Actually, what you would do is you’d check out Squarespace.com/ohno for a free trial.

ross

Okay, doing that.

carrie

And then, uh—

ross

Slash “ohno”, you say? [Carrie confirms.] O-H-N-O? Okay.

carrie

And then, when you’re ready to actually launch, you really love how it looks, you’re like, “Ah! People are gonna say I’m a pro.” Then you use the offer code “ohno” to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

ross

That’s amazing. [Carrie agrees.] Well, thank you for answering all my questions about websites.

carrie

Yeah, no problem. I’m very helpful. You know what else is helpful?

ross

What would that be?

carrie

When you’re bored and you need to be entertained. [Ross affirms.] And you need something to just sort of distract you and keep you going.

ross

Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Probably, for that, you’d want a fun game for your phone! [Carrie agrees.] Our phones do so many things. We shouldn’t even call them phones. But there’s no good replacement term. Pocket computers? That’s—

carrie

Come on. That sounds stupid.

ross

Five syllables and very nerdy.

carrie

And it makes it sound like you’re like Urkel.

ross

Well, whatever you wanna call that machine, it can also—in addition to taking pictures and notes and all these other things—it can play games! You can have a little bit of, uh, fun on the side! You know, it’s not all work and no play. That makes Jack a dull boy!

carrie

Yeah, we all need a break every now and then.

ross

May I recommend, if you’re looking for such a game to have on your phone, Best Fiends! [Carrie affirms curiously.] Yeah, we’ve talked about this on the show before. I am now at level 821.

carrie

Oh damn. How many levels are there? Do we know?

ross

Yeah! Actually, [laughs] I did find, somewhere, there was a progress—‘cause before, I said, “As far as I know, it’s infinite.” Oh yeah, okay. I’m at 820 out of 2660. And I’ve been plugging away at this game for a while, so this can provide many hours of entertainment.

carrie

You’re doing well, though!

ross

Thank you! Yeah! I feel like I’m moving right along. Footloose and fancy-free. And this is a free download.

carrie

Okay. Nice. Nice. It’s got pretty graphics.

ross

You can collect all kinds of bugs that help you make your way through. So, in every level—here, I’m gonna load this up for you, ‘cause Carrie’s cocking her head curiously. [Carrie confirms.] So, for example, in this—

carrie

[Dreamily.] Beneath the willow…

ross

So, in this level, I need to defeat five slugs, but I have also gotta clear all these little cages with the little yellow guys in them. And so, I connect all these similarly colored flowers and mushrooms and leaves. It’s a puzzle game, but it’s got all these achievements. And there’s characters for you to level up that give you more powers. And you have to figure out which ones do I use best to help me get through this level. And yeah, it’s fun! I do it while I watch a TV show or sit there in bed, putting off editing this show.

carrie

[Laughs.] And we’ve got cute characters. I’m looking at them, folks. [Ross agrees.] Cuteness is important to me, in a character. And these are cute characters.

ross

Indeed. Yeah, I have a lot of fun with this. So, I’ve been playing it now for quite a few months.

carrie

And it’s a—would you say it’s a unique puzzle experience?

ross

That’s exactly what I would say!

carrie

Would you say it’s an exciting puzzle experience?

ross

I would say it is exciting. You know. And it’s not for—it’s not just for, like, serious gamers. They would enjoy it, but it’s for everybody. And yeah, it can follow you all over the place and it doesn’t even require an internet connection.

carrie

Oh! That’s nice. Oh, so that’s—that’s a good travel game.

ross

I used to be more of a, like, PC gamer, but now I find most of my game playing happens on the phone. So, I highly recommend Best Fiends. And it’s free download. Though, you can also pay for in-game upgrades to make it even easier to play or you can give yourself advanced characters. But you don’t have to. [Carrie confirms.] But you might want to.

carrie

But you might want to! We’re not your parents.

ross

And you can connect with your friends on Facebook. You’ll see immediately, like, “Ooh, I didn’t know Cindy played this game! Oh, I didn’t know Mark played it!” You can send them gems and other gifts and they’ll send them back to you every day. Yeah. There’s all kinds of—all kinds of things—

carrie

Alright. I love Cindy and Mark!

ross

All kinds of things to do.

carrie

Best Fiends has thousands of levels already, with new levels, events, and characters added every month.

ross

It’s hours of fun right at your fingertips, and you can even play offline.

carrie

With over 100 billion downloads and tons of 5-star reviews, Best Fiends is a must-play.

ross

Download Best Fiends free on the App Store or Google Play.

carrie

That’s “friends” without the “r”—Best Fiends.

carrie

Back to me. Okay. So, one of my favorite vendors at Conscious Life Expo was Starfire Water.

ross

Oooh, okay. I took a picture of their booth. But I didn’t talk to them.

carrie

We ran into them—okay. We’ve run into them once before.

ross

Oh yeah! That’s right. That’s right.

carrie

It was our reflexologist, back in—probably, like, 2014, 2015? [Ross confirms with surprise.] And so, it is a crystalline, alkaline water. With—

ross

Okay. Alkaline as opposed to acidic. [Carrie confirms.] It’s basic. Okay.

carrie

And it has “sacred sound resonance transmission”, Ross.

ross

Well, that’s good.

carrie

The front of it has a yin and yang and two wings. I’m gonna read you the entire back of it, ‘cause it’s all so good. [Ross affirms.] “Legend has it that the mystical Starfire was the liquid mana of the divine, used by the ancients for ultra-focus, extreme performance, and even enlightenment. In that vein, we introduce Starfire Water: a propriety alkaline performance bio-holographic living water, produced using breakthrough 21st century quantum water technology.” [Ross makes a pained sound.] “Starfire Water is treated with ultraviolet,” comma, “ozonation, infrared stimulation, and electromagnetism, for a negative ion charged water, as in nature—allowing deep cellular intake through your aquaporins: the floodgates to hydration.” There’s more! “Vortex induced, using a solar helix and pyramid grid system, to give it a hexagonal structure. And infused with monatomic elements. We're able to achieve a water with cosmic healing energy. This water is amplified with a psionic wave oscillation tuned to the universe's frequency.”

ross

Oh, my goodness.

carrie

“Helping to synchronize you with the heartbeat of our Earth. [Laughing.] Starfire Water is treated with sacred sound resonance transmission to vibrationally transform you on the deepest molecular level. Altogether, we’ve created the world’s first premium alkaline performance, living, hexagonal, superstructured water.”

ross

Wooow. [Carrie laughs.] Wooow. [Carrie agrees.] The chutzpah it takes to write something like that!

carrie

And you know who did?

ross

Who did that?

carrie

I met the creator of Starfire Water. [Ross gasps.] He was there. He was shouting a lot. He was singing. He was getting people over to the booth. What do you think is the name of the person who invented Starfire Water?

ross

Oh, I hope it’s Gerald Starfire.

carrie

[Laughs softly.] He just goes by one name.

crosstalk

Ross: Cher? Carrie: It’s a mononym. Ross: [Laughing.] Okay.

carrie

[Flatly.] Jeff.

ross

Jeff?! [Breaks into laughter.] Known simply as Jeff.

carrie

[Laughing.] I just love—I thought for sure he was gonna be, like, Dragonfly or something. [Ross agrees with a laugh.] Nope! Jeff. “Hey, what’s up?”

ross

That’s right up there with SRI Harold Klemp.

carrie

Yeah, totally. So—

ross

[Dramatically.] Creator of Starfire Water: Jeff.

carrie

[Laughs.] So, this is just your average—let’s see, 16.9 fluid ounce water bottle. They were selling these for, I believe, four and half dollars. But they were also—

ross

Legend has it?! Who’s telling this legend?!

carrie

Also, I didn’t say them out loud, but throughout that description is so many trademark marks.

ross

Oooh, interesting. And looking through the bottle, from the other side, on that same label but facing the interior of the bottle, you can see this illustration. And it’s got a pyramid with some sort of—well, let’s see. We’ve certainly got our hexagonal structure. Oh, yeah, it’s kind of like one of those world tree—world flower graphics with all the interlocking circles inside of the hexagon. [Carrie affirms.] There’s also a pi symbol. So, you know. 3.141596—you know. Whyyy? What’s going on?

crosstalk

Carrie: An infinity. An— Carrie and Ross: Ohm.

carrie

And the international symbol for medicine.

ross

Oh, really? Wait. Let me see.

carrie

Yeah, on the left. The doctor symbol.

ross

Oh—oh, I see. The caduceus. With—

carrie

[Mumbling.] An anarchy symbol.

ross

But with, like, a DNA helix coming off the bottom of it. [Carrie affirms.] Interesting. I—rather than snakes twining down the—oh, wow.

carrie

That’s kind of an improvement.

ross

Yeah, I didn’t see that one. Okay. Oh, and then—yeah, there’s lightning coming down and hitting—oh yeah! Okay. It’s—that triangle is like a pyramid with the all-seeing eye top—you know, separated top of the pyramid. The capstone. And lightning hitting that. Well, you know. A for effort. [Carrie snorts a laugh.] But also, F for effort.

carrie

Don’t drink it all, but you should taste it. It is good water.

ross

Is it good water?

carrie

Yeah. I liked it. It’s tasty.

ross

Well, geez, you paid $4.50 for this?

carrie

No! I paid zero dollars for that! [Ross makes a sound of confusion.] And let me tell you why.

ross

Is this like how you got your parking?

carrie

[Laughing.] Nooo! Like—also known as theft. [Ross giggles.] No. So, they were also selling—

ross

That was—it’s—it’s good water, sure. Yeah.

carrie

Yeah, it’s good. They were also selling insaaane baseball caps.

ross

[Confused.] Insane baseball caps?

carrie

Yes. Baseball caps with sayings and designs on them—

ross

Like, “Make America great again”?

carrie

That were—[laughs] not quite that nuts. But were—wooow. Messages of every kind. There were ones that said, like, “Unicorn fire is here”. Just lots of thoughts, don’t really know what most of them meant. And one of them was a hot pink baseball cap with a yellow heart on it. Huge, oversized yellow heart. Didn’t quite fit on the cap. [Ross chuckles.] Baaarely attached to it.

ross

Is this the one you bought for Drew?

carrie

Yes, I did. [Ross laughs.] It says “kiss” on it.

ross

It came from this booth?

carrie

Yes! So, the guy who makes Starfire Water—Jeff—he also—

ross

The Jeff?! [Carrie confirms, laughing.] I know a Jeff.

carrie

[Laughing.] No, this the Jeff. He also makes these wild hats. And if you bought one of hit hats, he’d give you one of these bottles of water for free.

ross

How does he talk?! Does he talk in this flowery, quantum-entangled language?

carrie

He sings most of what he says.

ross

[Stammering in confusion.] What?

carrie

Yeah. [They laugh.] So, I was—I was walking up and he was going, [singing atonally] “Staaaarfire Wateeeeer!”

ross

Don’t make me like him! I don’t wanna like Jeff!

carrie

It was mostly that. And then I talked to one of his employees. This young woman. And she was telling me about him, and I was like, “Yeah, he seems like quite a character.” And she was like, “[Sighs.] He’s—that’s a way to say it. Yes.” [Ross giggles.] And that’s when I learned, I said, “What’s his name?” And she’s like, “Jeff.” And I was like, “JEFF?!” And she said, “I know!” [Laughs.]

ross

It’s so funny. My boss, Tracy, at one point said, “I never want anyone to describe me as ‘a piece of work’.” [Carrie agrees several times.] Kind of the worst—it would take a story to really describe this person. But they’re a piece of work.

carrie

In not so great a way.

ross

Never a great way. This logo on the front—Starfire Water has this symbol that—I’m afraid I can only give this in nerd terms. It looks like—

carrie

Well, I called it a yin and yang with two wings on it. [Ross agrees.] What would you call it?

ross

You’re correct. So, my thought is that it looks like a snitch, from Harry Potter. [Carrie affirms with a chuckle.] But with a yin yang symbol in the middle that kind of looks like a Sinnoh stone from Pokémon Go!.

carrie

Okay. Nooow we’re all picturing it.

ross

And, yeah, the wings are not like the golden wings on a snitch, in quidditch, but rather these angelic wings that are also—I don’t know, maybe made of ice? [Carrie affirms.] There’s a lot going on here.

carrie

There’s a looot. There’s so much.

ross

This bottle—this bottle’s—

carrie

It’s almost Dr. Bronner’s level.

ross

It’s a piece of work. [Carrie chuckles.] A real piece of work. Wow! Okay.

carrie

So, I am glad you didn’t drink all of it, ‘cause I’ve been saving a little bit, because I’m gonna put it in the tincture. [Ross affirms in delighted surprise.] Where we currently have—yeah, Amma’s holy water, the Rythmia Ayahuasca tincture that’s as strong or stronger than the real thing.

ross

I guess I should have gotten some of the CBD tincture, just to add to it.

carrie

Uuh, oh yeah! Well.

crosstalk

Carrie: I have something else I’m gonna add. Ross: We could make… this real unholy mixture. Okay, what do you got?

carrie

So, this is Ormus.

ross

[In a deep voice.] Ormus.

carrie

And you might be asking, “What’s Ormus?” Well—

ross

Ormus is a character from Diablo 2. [Deeply.] “Ormus says—"

carrie

Oh, is it? Well it’s also—it’s also a product of alchemy. Which is the ancient chemistry that transmutes something base into something fine, through an esoteric, energetic process. Now, Ormus is invented by this man, who was there at the Expo.

ross

Okay, so Carrie has flipped around her laptop and I am seeing a white man in his 70s. Thick, white eyebrows. He’s got a saffron robe and some kind of green multi-layered necklace. Actually, there’s a whole bunch of necklaces going on. And what is that? A red beanie kind of cap?

carrie

Yeeeah. Something—or maybe a turban. [Ross affirms.] His head’s cocked back so it’s kind of hard to tell. So, he was there. But he was kind of sitting off by himself and his people were handing these out. And I got this for free. Can you believe? So, she gave me—

ross

You’re getting a lot of hand outs, here!

carrie

I knooow, I know! His assistant—she asked me if I wanted to try it and I said, “Yes, absolutely.” And she gave me a little sample which I put on my tongue and then she said, “Oh, also, rub it into your hands.” That that was really effective. [Ross affirms.] And I said, “And what is it? What does it do?” [They chuckle.] And she—

ross

I bet all of them were just taken aback. “No one ever asks!”

carrie

Right! She’s like, “Well, it’s, um… it’s like a… um. Yeeeah. Oh god, how do you even describe what Ormus is?”

ross

You have one job. You’re—you are womaning a booth at a conference. You should know how to describe your product and what it does. [Carrie agrees.] Are these—are these orbitaly rearranged monatomic elements?

carrie

Since you’re looking at your computer, I’m gonna say yes?

ross

Are they m-state materials?

carrie

What the fuck is that? Is that on there?

ross

A fictitious of substances exhibiting many miraculous properties such as healing powers?

carrie

[Laughing.] Wait a minute.

ross

And superconductivity at room temperature?

carrie

I heard the word “fictitious” in there. That doesn’t sound—

ross

Yeah, I’m reading the Rational Wiki of Ormus.

carrie

Aaah, I see. Well, so if you go to their website—which is anualchemy—A-N-U alchemy dot com. [Ross affirms.] It explains what Ormus can do. So, it assists in activating the light body.

ross

We’re just assuming a light body, but okay. Yes.

carrie

It helps promote mental clarity. It helps improve focus and concentration. It balances both hemispheres of the left and right brain. [Ross affirms.] It increases alpha waves. It increases clairvoyance! [Ross hums doubtfully.] Assists in deep sleep, clears up skin issues. Tightens skin. Restores hair color. Increases memory. Amplifies the effect of herbal, homeopathic, and gemstone supplements. Enhances your lifeforce energy.

ross

I think we just met the quota of a cure-all.

carrie

Increases awareness and greater alertness, and gives you sparkling eyes!

ross

And if it cures everything…

crosstalk

Ross and Carrie: It cures nothing. Ross: Wooow. Carrie: I’m Sydnee McElroy. So— Ross: I’m Justin McElroy.

carrie

[Laughs.] This is very good and important stuff, and the inventor was there, and this woman was telling me, like, it’s a great honor that he’s here! You know? [Ross affirms.] I mean, he is one of the greatest inventors of the modern era!

ross

Of this product. Oh, okay.

carrie

And he—[laughs.] And here he is! [Ross chuckles.] So, I said, “Well, what has it done for you?”

ross

What’s his name again? Mike?

carrie

His— [They both break into laughter.] Let’s see. Meet the alchemist… okay, his name is Swaha Ron. S-W-A-H-A. And then the name Ron.

ross

[Laughs.] Swaha Ron. [Carrie confirms.] Okay. I’m not sure if that’s the same thing I’m reading about, then. I don’t know, this might be a different thing on the Rational Wiki.

carrie

Oh, yeah. Because I think Ormus is also just sort of a catch-all term for, like, holy liquid.

ross

Looks like it has roots in alchemy. Okay.

carrie

Yeah. Well. That makes sense. [Ross affirms.] It all started when he had a heartfelt desire to discover and learn healing to restore the health of his life partner, Linda—who then lived 29 years longer than the doctors at the UCLA liver transplant unit had said was possible.

ross

That means she is now deceased?

carrie

Probably.

ross

There was a number on that.

carrie

Yeah—oh. Good point. Sounds like, maybe, she should thank the doctors at the UCLA liver transplant unit. [Ross agrees.] But anyway…

ross

Maybe not a coincidence.

carrie

So, I asked the woman who gave me this—well—

ross

Yeah, Carrie’s holding a very small, white bottle. A tiny, tiny—like, maybe a centimeter tall and a centimeter wide.

carrie

Yeah, this has maybe got one ounce in it.

ross

Yeah, and then there’s kind of a gold layer on top of that bottom white layer. And then one of those little tiny squeeze-dropper tops. [Carrie agrees.] That lets you get, you know, just a single drop.

carrie

You want some?

ross

Oh! Wow.

carrie

I don’t know what’s in this.

ross

It’s white. It’s milky. This is kind of like our CBD oil that we had at the Source family thing. [Carrie agrees.] Okay. Wh-what am I doing? I’m just putting this on my tongue?

carrie

Yeah, or your hands.

ross

Sublingual. Oh, okay.

carrie

He chose tongue, folks. [Ross makes a thoughtful “hm” sound.] Um. So.

ross

[Disappointed.] Barely a flavor.

carrie

So, I asked her, “What has it done for you?” And she was like, “Oh my god, what hasn’t it done? Oh, my goodness.”

ross

So, I’m gonna live 29 years longer, now? [Carrie confirms.] Cool.

carrie

So, she said, “Well, you gotta talk to my son.” Okay. So. This woman’s probably in, like, her 40s. She has a teenage son who’s there doing this with her. And she’s like, [whispering] “You know what it does for him? It makes him a magnet… for baseballs.” [They burst into laughter.]

ross

That is not where I saw that sentence going. Like, oh weird that the mom is saying, like, [in a creepy voice] he’s a magnet for chicks—or something like that.

crosstalk

Carrie: [Amused.] Nope! Makes him— Ross: Or babes. Baseballs?!

carrie

A maaagnet! For baseballs. [Ross makes a sound of utter confusion.] So, I’m looking at her the way you’re looking at me.

ross

Though, to be fair, baseballs do have 108 stitches. And—

carrie

Is that so?

ross

And stitches get snitches.

carrie

Okay! Alright! Okay!

ross

So, I think we’ve figured this out.

carrie

We’ve certainly named some facts. [Laughs.]

ross

We’ve certainly made come callbacks to earlier in this episode. Yeah, yeah. Okay. What’s the relevance? What’s going on?

carrie

So, he plays baseball. [Ross affirms before wheezing into a laugh.] And when he is out there—[laughs.]

ross

I had this sudden mental image of him being, like, shortstop or the outfield and, like, every ball that gets hit, like, just pegs him. He’s getting constantly injured.

carrie

I know! I’m thinking, like, this—it’s not good! [They laugh.] Okay. So.

ross

Alright. Now give me the actual explanation.

carrie

[Whispering.] “So, he’s out there and he’s centerfield and they hit a ball. [Makes a tongue clicking noise to represent the ball against the bat.] To him. And he just catches it!” And I’m thinking, “Okay. Maybe… your son’s good at [laughing] baseball? What if the explanation is… your son’s good at baseball?”

ross

Just like the doctors at UCLA are good at helping people. [They both hum in agreement several times.] Some things don’t need an explanation. [Carrie agrees.] The pyramids—“Oh boy, people a long time ago, they couldn’t build something and use math!”

carrie

Yeah, or like—an example I’m just making up—maybe, like, your guru dies in a hang-gliding accident.

ross

Oh right, he couldn’t just die from falling out of the sky!

carrie

Right! He had to have a mahāsamādhi. So—

ross

I’m just gonna say, since you mentioned that, I used to have a t-shirt of Jesus hang-gliding. [Carrie affirms with a laugh.] And it said—it said, “What wouldn’t Jesus do?” And then I realized after that interview that A)—

carrie

With Isis?

ross

—I’m not sure what happened to that shirt and I miss it. [Carrie agrees.] But, also, be—that would be a very inappropriate shirt to have worn…

carrie

Woah, you don’t know…

ross

To a Source family gathering.

carrie

What happened? So, it’s cause of disappearance is unknown? [Ross agrees.] Oh my god.

crosstalk

Ross: Yeah, send that to your coroner. Carrie: That’s very meaningful. Um, anyway—so— Ross: Yes. Ormus. Carrie: This poor kid— Ross: It attracts baseballs.

carrie

Yeah, it’s what—so, I said to her—

ross

Now, if I had just had a drop of that and then I got suddenly pegged by a baseball, I’d be a believer.

carrie

Yeah. Totally. I said something like, “Well, we should just bring a baseball tomorrow and, like, see if it rolls toward him!” [Laughs.] And she’s like, “Ooh, I don’t think it’d work quite like that.” And I said, “Well, have you tried not giving it to him for a couple of his games? And see if they don’t come?” [Ross agrees.] And she was like, “Well, it’s more long-term than that.” [Ross laughs.] She said, “Yeah. It’s more long-term than that. It’s kind of—"

ross

A cumulative effect.

carrie

No, she says, “It’s kind of like a permanent thing.” And I said, “Oh! Okay! So, I don’t need to buy any, ‘cause I just had some!” [Ross affirms.] “And it’s permanent!” And she said, “Well, nooo. It’s—"

ross

‘Cause that doesn’t involve me getting money out of it.

carrie

Right. It’s not that. [Ross giggles.] But I said—I said, “Well! You know, I’m a pretty scientifically minded person. So, I’ll tell you what. I’m here tomorrow, too. So, if I feel anything, I’ll—uh, I’ll come back.” And she’s like, “I love that! Take some samples.” And she gave me two of these little bottles.

ross

Oh boy, that’s enough for a lifetime of baseballs.

carrie

Yeah. [Laughs.] So, I’m gonna put it—I’m gonna also put this in the tincture. [Ross agrees.] And, so that—

ross

Oh, that’s gonna make it cloudy and… you know.

carrie

A little. I’m only gonna put a couple drops, ‘cause that’ll just make it stronger.

ross

‘Cause, yeah, it is—it is that white, cloudy texture.

carrie

And I’m gonna try to fill that tincture up with as much holy stuff as I possibly can. [Ross agrees.] Yeah.

ross

Yeah, hey. Well, we’re well on our way. Oh, and you’re gonna put a little bit of the basic water in there, too? [Carrie agrees.] Okay, cool. Alright! Amazing.

carrie

And we didn’t even get to any of the talks we went to, but… that was our first 45 minutes at this Expo.

ross

Oh, I’ve got another important vendor to tell you about. But, yeah, we’ve been talking about quite a bit here. So, yeah. I guess we’ll just keep telling you the tales from this Expo. And I feel like we just scratched the surface of it. Even still with all the talks we attended. But oooh my goodness, are there some good things left to share.

carrie

There’s [makes kissing noises].

ross

Mm, a chef’s kiss!

carrie

Think of this as, like, 40 investigations. ‘Cause there were so many things there.

ross

Yes. Oh wow. Yeah, like—I can’t wait to tell you about this vendor I met and his free energy device. It just needs a little more work and a little more funding.

carrie

[Laughs.] I can’t wait. There’s so many things I’ve been wanting to tell you but haven’t been able to because we do this shooow!

ross

Somebody—it does—occasionally it halts our normal conversations with each other, ‘cause we’ll be like, [excited] “Oh my goodness! I just heard this and I gotta tell you—” [Both of them make abrupt, cut-off, trying not to speak noises.] Wait!

carrie

[Pained.] Save it for the microphone!

ross

[Straining.] Wanna get—wanna get that first reaction! So, uh. But first, before we leave, we wanna leave you with…

crosstalk

Ross and Carrie: [Cheering.] A Jumbotron!

carrie

Who’s this message for? It’s for Ryan Patton.

ross

And who’s this message from? It’s from Tom Qualls.

carrie

And what does Tom say?

crosstalk

Ross and Carrie: [Falling in and out of sync.] He says, “Happy 3rd anniversary, Ryan. Time has flown by and I love you.” Ross: Aww. Carrie: Yeah. Aww. Ross: Tempus fugit.

carrie

What’s that mean?

ross

Time flies. [Carrie makes a sound of understanding.] I don’t know how to say, “I love you” in Latin.

carrie

Write! Us! An email! Tell us how to say, “I love you” in Latin.

ross

Too late. I can also use Google. “Te amo!” Interesting! [Carrie makes a sound of surprise.] Yeah! Just, like, in Spanish!

carrie

Italian or Spanish.

ross

Its daughter languages. Yeah. Spanish.

carrie

You learn something new every day. [Ross agrees.] Well, that’s it for our show!

ross

Our theme music is by Brian Keith Dalton!

carrie

And our administrative manager is Ian Krrrrr—

crosstalk

Ross and Carrie: Rrrrramer!

ross

You can support this show by telling a friend, by leaving a positive review, supporting us at MaximumFun.org/donate. [Carrie hums in agreement.] All of these are ways to make this show continue and be possible. Yeah, get the word out there! Tell your friends!

carrie

Mm-hm! Think good thoughts! But then turn them into action.

ross

And then wait for our MaxFunDrive coming up. ‘Cause, uh—

carrie

Oh yeah! That’s gonna be—

ross

[Mumbling.] It’s gonna be a good one.

carrie

Primo. You can also follow us on social media. You heard of it? [Ross agrees.] Go to Twitter.com/ohnopodcast.

ross

Or Facebook.com/onrac.

crosstalk

Ross and Carrie: O-N-R-A-C.

ross

You can follow both of us on Instagram, or the hashtag #ONRAC.

carrie

Or invent a new social media, make us join it, make us say more things at the end of the episode. Everyone will hate you.

ross

Use a word that everyone knows but take out the vowels. There you go.

carrie

[Laughing.] There you go! And remember:

clip

Music: Soothing music plays. Ron Holman: I’m Dr. Ron Holman. My friends call me Swaha Ron. [Music ends.] Ron: As time went along, sitting in this energy, information started arriving. A voice or a download. Sometimes the herbs would just arrive in my office. Or higher life force energy water, from Boganathar, for another formula of addiction and abuse. Medicines that just manifest by themselves or out of the blue happen sometimes. I can’t tell you how it happens. I can’t tell you when it’s gonna happen. I can recognize it when it arrives, because it just feels out of place in relation to the spot that I find it in. Like it wasn’t there yesterday. [Beat.] So, when I’m—you know, in my office or in the laboratory and, you know, I see something that isn’t labeled—I always label everything. I’m sort of obsessive compulsive about labeling stuff and putting dates on it and stuff. And so, when I find a bottle of a liquid or a baggie with some herbs in it or some ash in it that isn’t labeled, I immediately go, “Aha! Alright. Where did you come from? And what’s your name? And what are you here for? And how are we supposed to work with you?” And—like that. I just talk to it. Which, of course, we know everything’s energy. So, you can talk to trees. You can talk to gemstones, that I’ve been talking to since ’99. And everything has a voice. Has—has an energy. And in that energy, if you can attune your frequency, there’s a voice in that energy. You can interact with it. Music: Calming music resumes.

music

“Oh No, Ross and Carrie! Theme Song” by Brian Keith Dalton. A jaunty, upbeat instrumental. [Music ends.]

promo

Music: Relaxing ukulele music. Manolo Moreno: Hey, you've reached Dr. Gameshow. Leave your message after the beep. [Music stops.] [Beep!] Sara: Hi. This is Sara, and I'd like to tell you about Dr. Gameshow. Dr. Gameshow is a band of geniuses, or nerds, or brilliant artists, or kids, or some combination of all of those who get together to make a show like no other that's family-friendly. It's an interactive call-in gameshow podcast. When I found Dr. Gameshow, I found joy. I told my friends and family that if they weren't listening, they were wasting joy. I sent them the episodes that made me laugh until I cried, played it for them in the car. They laugh, too! Laugh their butts off. But they still don't listen on their own, so they're wasting joy. And I keep looking for someone to understand me. Maybe it's you! Give Dr. Gameshow a listen and find joy. [Beep!] [Music resumes.] Jo Firestone: Listen to Dr. Gameshow on Maximum Fun. New episodes every other Wednesday. [Music fades out.]

promo

Music: Classical orchestral music. John Hodgman: Hey, everyone! It's I, John Hodgman of the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Elliott Kalan: And I, Elliott Kalan of the Flop House podcast. John: And we've made a whole new podcast! A 12-episode special miniseries called I, Podius. In which we recap, discuss, and explore the very famous 1976 BBC miniseries about Ancient Rome called I, Claudius! We've got incredible guests such as Gillian Jacobs, Paul F. Tompkins, as well as star of I, Claudius Sir Patrick Stewart! And his son! Non-Sir Daniel Stewart. Elliott: Don't worry, Dan, you'll get there someday. John: I, Podius is the name of the show! Every week from MaximumFun.org for only 12 weeks. Get 'em at MaximumFun.org, or wherever you get your podcasts. [Music fades out.]

speaker 1

MaximumFun.org

speaker 2

Comedy and culture.

speaker 3

Artist owned—

speaker 4

—audience supported.

About the show

Welcome to Oh No, Ross and Carrie!, the show where we don’t just report on fringe science, spirituality, and claims of the paranormal, but take part ourselves. Follow us as we join religions, undergo alternative treatments, seek out the paranormal, and always find the humor in life’s biggest mysteries. We show up – so you don’t have to. Every week we share a new investigation, interview, or update.

Follow @ohnopodcast on Twitter and join the Facebook group!

People

How to listen

Stream or download episodes directly from our website, or listen via your favorite podcatcher!

Share this show