TRANSCRIPT Ross and Carrie Become Conscious Part 1

Transcript

music
									
“Oh No, Ross and Carrie! Theme Song” by Brian Keith Dalton. A jaunty, upbeat instrumental.
carrie poppy
									
Hello! Welcome to Oh No, Ross and Carrie! The show where we don’t just report on fringe science, spirituality, and claims of the paranormal. No, no, no, no, no. We take part, ourselves.
ross blocher
									
Yup! When they make the claims, we show up, so you don’t have to! I’m Ross Blocher.
carrie
									
And I’m Ross Blocher. [Ross makes a “hm” sound.] We are coming at you, live, from my living room.
ross
									
Well, okay, so we’re not live.
carrie
									
Okay. Touché.
ross
									
Well, we—you and I are live.
carrie
									
We are alive! And we are—
crosstalk
									
Ross and Carrie: Conscious! Carrie: Coming at you consciously. Ross: Apropos of our recent visit to the Conscious Life— Ross and Carrie: [Cheering.] Expo!
ross
									
This is one I’ve wanted to do for a long time.
carrie
									
Yeah, and people send it to us every once in a while. [Carrie agrees several times as Ross talks.]
ross
									
This is something we’ve been aware of for a long time. And it was in its 18th year, this year! So, it’s been going on since year of our Lord 2003.
carrie
									
Amen.
ross
									
It couldn’t be more appropriate for our podcast, because it is an assembling of—
carrie
									
Smorgasbord.
ross
									
A gallimaufry, jambalaya, of every— [Carrie agrees enthusiastically several times.] —spiritual claim. All rolled into one LAX Hilton. In Los Angeles.
carrie
									
Every single year.
ross
									
It’s crystals. It’s healing. [Carrie agrees.] It’s CBD supplements. Free energy devices. It’s UFOs.
carrie
									
Haunted things. Blessed things
ross
									
Pyramids and chem trails and just, it’s—
carrie
									
Chakras.
ross
									
You said it very well. It’s like if our podcast just spilled out into a building. [Carrie agrees.] There it is. And it—
carrie
									
That’s what this is.
ross
									
Normally we have to go out and seek these people. [Carrie agrees with a laugh.] And they have all fallen in our laps. So essentially, we could just do our investigations out of this conference.
carrie
									
[Laughing.] We could! And we will. And that’s all we’re doing from here out.
ross
									
Our podcast shall heretofore be known as Oh No, Conscious Life Expo!
carrie
									
[Giggling.] And I thought it was going to be more of a crunchy, healthy thing. [Ross hums in acknowledgement.] Not so much with the wild claims.
ross
									
Oooh! When you heard the term “Conscious Life Expo”?
carrie
									
Yeah. I guess That’s what it summoned to mind, for me. But no, no, no, no, no. You’re not gonna go here and eat some granola. You’re not gonna go here an hear about animal rights. You’re gonna go here and talk to someone about how a pyramid is gonna heal your missing foot.
ross
									
And that crunchy stuff might be subtext, but it’s— [Carrie agrees several times.] It’s on the fringe of what is normally fringe and is now this whole expo. And yeah, we’ve been meaning to do this for years, and every year we talk about it. ‘Cause we’ve been doing this podcast for nine years, now!
carrie
									
Niiiine yeeears! Geez.
ross
									
That’s Wiiild! Yeah, every time we think, “Oh, shoot! We just missed the Conscious Life Expo!” Or, “Oh, shoot. You have to be out of town that week?” [Carrie agrees.] You know, it’s always something or other. But, yeah. It’s a four-day conference, though kind of centered on a weekend. And so, we signed up. I got the one-day pass for Saturday and the day pass for Sunday. Each was $35.
carrie
									
I think I did the same. [Ross affirms.] We figured, “Okay, there are these individually priced workshops and talks. We’ll just sort of play it by ear, and if—in the moment—we wanna go to a particular one, we’ll eat the cost then.”
ross
									
Right. And You can buy, like, VIP admission and pay a lot more, but then you get—kind of—more guaranteed access to things. But we thought, [voice pitched high and thoughtful] “You know, let’s just go check it out, see what’s there.” [Carrie agrees.] So, uh, 70 bucks for that and you’ll pay double that just in parking, ‘cause—
carrie
									
[Pained.] Oh my god! The parking situation! Is awful!
ross
									
Well, you’re near LAX and everybody’s trying to park. [Carrie agrees.] And get to the airport, and…
carrie
									
Truuue. But.
ross
									
But.
carrie
									
This particular Hilton? [Ross agrees.] The parking is under the hotel, and they don’t tell you when it fills up. They still let you come in, even though there are literally no spots left.
ross
									
This is criminal.
carrie
									
And so, I go down there, y’all. And I’m driving and driving and driving thinking, “Where are the open spots?” Before I realized, “Oh! There are no open spots! You just let me in, anyway!” And then I realized people were, like, parking along the side of the walls and, like, creating spaces where there were no spaces!
ross
									
[Chuckling.] Oh, wow.
carrie
									
So, I just…
ross
									
It’s the wild west.
carrie
									
Yeah, and I joined it.
ross
									
Oh, you did? [Laughs.]
carrie
									
I created a space on the end of an aisle that was not there.
ross
									
Though you said you ended up spending $40, for parking? [Chuckles.]
carrie
									
I was $40. Now, did I spend $40? No.
ross
									
[Intrigued.] Oooh.
carrie
									
Was I so furious [chuckling] when I left that I said, “I lost my ticket.” And got the guy to let me out? [Ross makes a sound of surprise and agrees several times.] Yes. I lied. And I don’t feel proud of it and I told Drew the next day, “I feel guilty about this and I have to tell someone.” [Wheezes into laughter.]
crosstalk
									
Carrie: That I stole a fake space under LAX Hilton. Ross: It’ll be… [chuckling] our little secret. What did you do the next day? ‘Cause I—
carrie
									
I took a Lyft.
ross
									
Ooh, smart. That’s right. I parked at the parking spot next door, which is normally—is for airport parking. And that was 32 bucks or something. [Carrie makes a sound of surprise.] But yeah, it’s just—
carrie
									
Come on!
ross
									
Yeah, every Los Angeles story begins with traffic related anger. [Laughs.] So.
carrie
									
Yeah. Yeah. Anyway.
ross
									
It’s a great way to start your hippie, like, spiritual experiences.
carrie
									
Getting in touch with your feelings. [Ross hums in agreement.] First one? Anger.
ross
									
[Laughs.] So, you walk in and—of course, it’s the LAX Hilton, so you see various Hollywood types walking through, wondering what is going on. But then you see a lot of people wearing robes and shawls and—
carrie
									
Several flowy scarves on one person.
ross
									
Beads and crystals.
carrie
									
You’re like, “Those are my people.”
ross
									
Oh yeah! In the big atrium, as you enter in, you can see—like—a grand staircase leading up and there’s signs everywhere. So, you see, “Okay, there’s programming going on up there.” And then there’s hallways leading back, so you know there’s stuff there on the first floor. But in this giant atrium, you have a performance stage. And there’s always someone up there playing a flute. Or… [Carrie agrees several times.] Playing the harmonium or dancing. Or leading a live yoga session. And just a smattering of people kind of sitting on the couches there, watching them, or participating.
carrie
									
Or ignoring them. I got to see a couple pretty choice performances, there.
ross
									
Oh, did you?
carrie
									
Oh yes.
ross
									
And what’d you catch.
carrie
									
Oh yes! Okay, let me pull out my phone. Little interesting fact about me, my phone also takes video and photos.
ross
									
[Beat.] Yeah.
carrie
									
[Beat.] That’s it.
ross
									
Oh! That’s—that’s very interesting.
carrie
									
And so, I—you know—I use it to capture various things that happen, in my life, and [dreamily, drifting into a murmur] that’s a unique fact about me.
ross
									
That’s very unique.
carrie
									
Here’s the guy singing on the stage. [The sounds of the video playing are very distant, only barely picked up by the microphone. It continues under the dialogue.]
ross
									
Yeah, okay. Carrie’s playing the videos she took.
carrie
									
Just super atonal.
ross
									
We’re looking down into this large, kind of, two story atrium from the staircase. And you can see there’s a large chandelier hanging from the ceiling. We’ve got posters. And, yeah, what’s he doing? He’s all by himself.
carrie
									
He’s all by himself. He’s singing super atonally. But he was singing a song that went, [tunelessly] “This! Is! Everythiiiiing!” And people were largely ignoring him.
ross
									
Awwww. [Carrie agrees.] So, it’s not everything.
carrie
									
[Laughing.] It’s not—
ross
									
Aw, that’s sad.
carrie
									
There was him and then there was also someone who was, um, doing what I can only describe as the hippie dance. [Ross affirms with humor in his voice.] All around. So, yeah. Lots of arm waving and stuff. And he was fun to watch.
ross
									
Yeah, I felt like every time I came out, there was a new performer. And it might be a woman playing guitar and singing something or could be, like, a full dance number happening with people wearing sparkly veils and dancing around. So, yeah. It was varying levels of liveliness. So, nice way to enter. I love that they—
carrie
									
[Interrupting.] Ross! This is how I had to park.
ross
									
That’s not a parking spot. [Carrie affirms.] You’re, like, straddling one. Okay.
carrie
									
Mm-hm! Okay, go on.
ross
									
And I love that, behind this area where everyone was sitting, there was a large, flat table surface. And they had known what was gonna happen, so they put up these signs that said, “Please do not place pamphlets here.” [Carrie agrees with a laugh.] “They will be thrown away. Thank you.” And it reminded me of, you know, when someone puts up a sign that says, “Post no bills,” and everyone puts, like, Bill Clinton and…
carrie
									
Oh, sure! That’s fun.
ross
									
And Bill Nye.
carrie
									
And a duck.
ross
									
Oh, right [chuckles], yeah. [Carrie laughs.] Posts any kind of bill they can think of. Everyone had brought their little 5x7 fliers that they’d been littering all over the place. I saw one for the Trust Frequency. Another for the Dance of Souls. Another one that said, “Know your life’s purpose.” [Carrie affirms several times.] Star Magic Healing Workshop. “Learn how to live in the 5th dimension.” Advertisements for people’s various workshops and services and they all had that standard art of, you know, the meditating person and the lotus position, or…
carrie
									
In purple.
ross
									
Yeah, or glowing networks of lines forming weird torus shapes, or whatever it may be. Yeah, we felt right at home.
carrie
									
On that exact same table where they had the, “Please don’t leave your fliers here,” flier— [Ross agrees.] —I saw this. Did you get to see this one? The “Women Beware” sign?
ross
									
[With interest.] Nooo! What—wait.
carrie
									
Take a look. I was like, “Hey, good job whoever did this!”
ross
									
“Warning. Women be conscious. Be aware. Be safe. Hold your power. Beware of sex in exchange for healing or enlightenment. Don’t let yourself be manipulated. There is a longstanding history of sexual inappropriateness in the spiritual community. Male gurus/enlighten masters/swamis/teachers throughout time have been known to make sexual advances towards women, offering healing or enlightenment in exchange for sex. This continues to this day! Be aware. Be strong. And be safe. Allow no opportunity for impropriety. Be safe.” Wow!
carrie
									
Fuck yeah, right?!
ross
									
Oh, my goodness, that’s awesome! [Carrie agrees.] Yeah, I did not see that! How cool!
carrie
									
Okay. [Chuckles.] Yeah! I thought that was pretty neat. It was—it seemed like it was intentionally placed next to this one person’s brochure, but… [Ross chuckles thoughtfully.] I could be reading into that, so I’m not going to…
ross
									
Maybe it was—okay.
carrie
									
Name and blame.
ross
									
Won’t necessarily read into that. Okay. [Carrie agrees several times.] Wild. Yeah, from here you could also see banners for Gaia. G-A-I-A. Which normally you would think of as kind of the lifeforce of the planet.
carrie
									
I think of it as the largest conscious…
ross
									
Media network. [Chuckles.]
carrie
									
Yeah, exactly. It’s like a media network that came alive. Just walking through a building. It’s got a bit TV for a head. [Makes roaring monster sounds.]
ross
									
[In a deep, monstrous voice.] “I’m a media network! Why do I know that?!”
carrie
									
[In the same deep voice.] “I’m—” [They both dissolve into laughter.] “And I’m the biggest one! Oh, there’s a little conscious one. Stomp! Stomp, stomp, stomp!” [They giggle.]
ross
									
I love that your brain went there. ‘Cause my first thought was, “How many conscious media networks are there?” [Carrie agrees.] But I like that you’ve thought of the modification of conscious—applying to the network itself. That the network is conscious.
carrie
									
[In her monster voice.] The appropriate modification! The only one that makes sense! [They laugh.]
ross
									
So, well, I appreciate networks that are self-aware. [Chuckles.] So, my first stop was to walk right upstairs, because they had a little Gaia room. A lounge where you could hang out.
carrie
									
Nice.
ross
									
And when I first walked in, there was a bunch of TVs playing different media from the Gaia Network. And they’re sponsoring this event, and so various key notes and important talks and some of the paid talks are streaming live on Gaia Network, and you can sign up for this. So, I was immediately drawn to the very first TV. ‘Cause there are all these graphics of brains and little regions of the brain being lit up.
carrie
									
I don’t think I saw this room at all!
ross
									
Oh, really?!
carrie
									
Yeah! I’m trying to picture a room with a bunch of TVs, and I don’t remember it.
ross
									
Yeah, as you come up the stairs, it’s to your right.
carrie
									
Okay, so I’m Rose, going up the stairs. [Ross agrees with a chuckle.] I go to Jack’s side.
ross
									
It’s funny, these were not unlike Titanic’s stairs. [Carrie agrees several times.] You would go up the stairs and to your right—and then before you go down the hallway with all the ballrooms and stuff, you hang another right. So, it’s attached to that central atrium.
carrie
									
Yeah, I think I didn’t even go in here. Which—by the way, this place is fricking huge. [Ross agrees.] And many roomed and many layered and you can miss an entire floor and not realize.
ross
									
Which I did, the first day! Yeah. Carrie texted me after I’d left, on Saturday. And she said, “Oh! I found a whole other section of vendors!”
carrie
									
A floor!
ross
									
“On the lower level.” [Carrie agrees several times.] I said, “Oh really?! Okay! I will look at that tomorrow.” Well, that means you didn’t get to meet Julie. I was busy watching this thing about the brain, and I guess it was all the work of Dr. Joe Dispenza. And it was saying really wild things, like, “One hour of focused concentration on a single idea LITERALLY doubles your synaptic connections!” [Carrie disagrees with a laugh.] And I was like, “What does that—what does that mean!?” And so, I’m—like—starting to write this stuff down. But then this lady sidles over to me, and she’s a rep for Gaia. They have very nice colors, for this. Kind of a teal.
carrie
									
Okay. And purple?
ross
									
And purple!
carrie
									
Ope! Those are the go-to—
crosstalk
									
Ross and Carrie: Spiritual colors. Carrie: Yeah.
ross
									
So, she had them. She was wearing them. And I was like, “Oh, that is very nice.” And we had a conversation about how, you know, “It’s not fair to ask someone their favorite color. You know, I always say blue, but that’s not true. My favorite color changes all the time.” [Carrie makes a thoughtful sound.] “’Cause there’s so many good colors!” So, we were both chatting about that. And—
carrie
									
[Giggling.] It’s—oh, I’m happy for you both.
ross
									
Thank you. [Carrie agrees.] Well, I know orange is your favorite.
carrie
									
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
ross
									
Okay, and…
carrie
									
I don’t know, it just—it struck me as such a—like, a—like, two—I don’t know, two people who had just, like, woken up from a Rip Van Winkle style nap or something. [They laugh.] Like, where all we can relate on is, like, the basic senses. “Do you like the smell of strawberry?” “Love it.” Anyway.
ross
									
This is all true.
carrie
									
Go on.
ross
									
So, I can’t remember quite how we got into this conversation, but at one point she told me about a dream she had about dragons. Oh—that’s right. We were talking about animation. It was—
carrie
									
Oh, cool.
ross
									
She wanted to know what the next film was, coming from Disney animation. I mentioned Riot and The Last Dragon. And she said, “[Gasps.] I’ve been having dreams about dragons!”
carrie
									
Oh shit!
ross
									
“I’ve been feeling, like, a real connection to dragons, this year!” [Carrie affirms.] And I said, “Oh! That’s funny. I’ve kind of had this thing with peacocks." And I mention how my friend and I, you know, were talking about peacocks and now we’re seeing them all over the place. And she said, “Oh! That’s amazing. Actually, let me show you my shawl.” And so, she picks out this teal and purple shawl that she has in her bag, with—
carrie
									
Ooooh, yeeeah! With—
ross
									
With a prominent, embroidered peacock on it!
carrie
									
Peacock! Wow! Cool!
ross
									
With jewels and everything!
carrie
									
It’s like peacocks play a prominent role in our culture!
ross
									
[Giggling.] It’s a lot like that! So, I took a picture so that—to share with you. Uh, so yeah. I didn’t get to look at the displays too much, ‘cause we were engaged in conversation.
carrie
									
[Dramatically.] Oh my god, but Ross!
ross
									
Yeah?
carrie
									
You mentioned Dr. Joe Dispenza. [Ross affirms.] So, I looked him up.
ross
									
Yes! I recognize the name. I know either we’ve run into him before or I’ve read about him before.
carrie
									
Ooh, okay. I didn’t remember that. But it says, on his website, “Dr. Joe is a faculty member at Quantum University in Honolulu.”
ross
									
That sounds legit!
carrie
									
[Giggles.] I wonder where his doctorate’s from.
ross
									
[Laughing.] This is how Carrie works.
carrie
									
[Laughing.] Oh boy. Okay. Go on.
ross
									
She was telling me about the network itself. And, for a mere—eh, $11, $12 a month, you get all of this streaming content, all these amazing documentaries about everything that the conference itself is interested in. The questions of consciousness and who we are and greater purpose and nature and UFOs and… [Carrie affirms.] All of the above.
carrie
									
But, presumably, you couldn’t put up a video that was, like, “Nature happens the way science says it happens.”
ross
									
No! That would be—that’s just wrong and boring.
carrie
									
Okay, got it.
ross
									
Yeah. [Chuckles.] This is all very much alternative. So, she gave me her card. First, she gave me someone else’s card and I was like, “Oh! Is your name Powers?” And she said, “Oh, no! Sorry! How did I give you that card?”
carrie
									
Someone’s first name is Powers? [Ross confirms.] That’s pretty good.
ross
									
Right?!
carrie
									
Yeah! Good for them.
ross
									
Yeah. That was my visit there. But they also had posters for some of their featured speakers. Like Emery Smith. [Carrie lets out a long “Woooah”.] Who’d be presenting Cosmic Disclosure: Inside the Secret Space Program.
carrie
									
Oh shit!
ross
									
Only on Gaia! And boy, does he look intense, there.
carrie
									
Yeah, no kidding. He’s a very symmetrical person.
ross
									
Oh. Interesting. Yeah! Alright. [Carrie agrees.] The—and then, of course, our good old friend George Noory.
carrie
									
Nooryyyy!
ross
									
You’ve been on his show.
carrie
									
Well, true. Though, it wasn’t him hosting. But yes.
ross
									
Oh, gotcha. Beyond Belief. That’s funny. I’ve seen that in secular contexts. [Carrie hums in agreement.] Uh, quite often. Like, The Foundation Beyond Belief is a good charity network. But he is also on Gaia. “Real accounts of paranormal phenomena, conspiracies, and all things unexplained.” So, there are various posters for the things that they were either sponsoring or streaming. And some of them are people that we’ve talked about on this show before, like Graham Hancock. You may remember.
carrie
									
Yesss. I saw him, there! Just walking around.
ross
									
From our Ozark Mountain UFO conference. Oh! You saw him? Pacing the floor.
carrie
									
He attended a talk that I attended.
ross
									
Oh, hoo hoo! Interesting! Well, speaking of that, I ran into some fun people as well.
carrie
									
Okay. I mean, surely you couldn’t run into my… top speaker of all time.
ross
									
I saw, just kind of wandering around, trying to find her way, Linda—
crosstalk
									
Ross and Carrie: [Carrie almost sings the words.] Moulton Howe!
carrie
									
[Shouting.] Yeeees! Oh, I was so delighted when I found out she was gonna be speaking at this.
ross
									
Wearing her big glasses and—there’s something about her that reminds me a little bit of my mom. She has, just, sort of a—
carrie
									
Oh, okay!
ross
									
Not in terms of what she’s saying, but just physicality-wise.
carrie
									
Hm. Okay.
ross
									
And, uh, she was wondering around in a black leather jacket and bright red shirt and, yeah, her big purple glasses. So, I just walked up to her and she was talking to someone. So, I kinda leaned in for a second. And she seemed available and I thought, “Oh, later on once people realize who you are, you’re gonna be besieged.” [Carrie agrees.] “I’ll never get this chance, again!” So, I took a picture with her and—
carrie
									
Oh, so jealous.
ross
									
I asked her, “So, what are the big things going on right now? Like, what’s the latest?” And she said, “Oh, wow, well, we just had a panel, yesterday. And it’s just great to be talking with people who are on the forefront of what’s going on. And I—you know, we made new discoveries on the panel!”
carrie
									
Wooooah!
ross
									
Yeah, and I’m thinking—
carrie
									
That’s hard to do! [Laughs.]
ross
									
[Laughing.] Yeah, like—so—so you had a synthesis of made-up stories about government coverups and alien discoveries? Onstage? Is that what happened there?
carrie
									
Yeah. So, to back up a second, for context. Yeah. Linda Moulton Howe is a—oh boy. [Ross laughs and affirms each of Carries points.] She is a purveyor of claims that include: humanity was seeded by aliens, we’re in contact with a number of alien races, and she started off her career by investigating cattle mutilations. She was one of the OG people who was like, “Wait a minute—cattle mutilations are aliens.” And so, she did a documentary on local TV, called Earth Files, that won a regional Emmy. [Ross makes a sound of surprise.] And that kind of became her career, from there on.
ross
									
Vaulted her into the stratosphere.
carrie
									
So, we’ve seen her a number of times speak. And she really is—I think my favorite speaker that we see a lot. Because you never know [laughing] what’s gonna come out of her face! [Ross chuckles.] As someone said, at the UFO conference.
ross
									
Yeah, it was at the Ozark Mountain Conference. The MC—someone was saying, “Oh, that was so great, what Linda Moulton Howe had to say.” [Laughing.] And his measured response that was, “You never know what’ll come out of her face.” [They wheeze into laughter.] It just—such a good description.
carrie
									
So good. So good.
ross
									
‘Cause you never know.
carrie
									
You really don’t.
ross
									
So, in this case, I prompted something new out of her face, which was, “Hey, what’s going on?” And so, she said, “Well, really all the action is in [articulating] Ant-arct-ica.” And I said, “Oh yeah, I’ve heard about some pyramids down there.” And she said, “Oh, I’m sure there’s a pyramid, but I mean—” [Carrie laughs.] “They’ve got 13 acer rooms. And—"
carrie
									
Damn.
ross
									
“—They’re inside of, like, 62 acer facilities. And these were being built 34 million years ago! So, you have to ask—why has this been in development and kept a secret?!”
carrie
									
[Amused.] You do need to ask that, yes.
ross
									
[Chuckles.] And I remember—she didn’t say it here, but in previous talks she’s talked about, like, tunnels being built in Mars and—it’s so wild! You just never know where she’s gonna go with this stuff!
carrie
									
You just don’t know! [Ross laughs.] And she has a very popular YouTube Earth Files where she—[laughs] shows you her cats a looot. She’s just—she’s the BEST! She really is. So, I knew that she was gonna be there. I was actually looking for her. I’ll tell you more about that. [Ross hums in acknowledgment.] But I was so delighted, and I immediately bought a ticket to her talk, so that was—that was the first thing I did. Gotta get my LMH in.
ross
									
Yeah, absolutely. Not to be confused with LRH.
carrie
									
Oh! True!
ross
									
So, our conversation quickly turned into her saying, “But do you know where the elevators are? I’m trying to get upstairs for—” And she was making it sound like some important meeting she needed to be at. [Carrie affirms several times.] Probably gonna learn some new secrets about undercover government operations.
carrie
									
Who knows how many whistleblowers are there!
ross
									
Oh, my goodness, there could be so many.
carrie
									
‘Cause that’s another thing about her, is that she will just tell you about whistleblowers she just met and you’re like, “Well—oh—who are these people?”
ross
									
Who aaare these people?!
carrie
									
You met someone who “worked for the CIA” at this conference? [Ross hums skeptically.] Uh, did you check it? How? How did you check it, Linda Moulton? How did you check it?
ross
									
[Laughs.] Then I was telling her, “Aw, I’m sorry, I actually haven’t seen an elevator this whole time, but I’m sure there’s gotta be one towards the center.” So, I’m the blind leading the blind, trying to help Linda Moulton Howe find an elevator somewhere.
carrie
									
It seems like the kind of place you’d elevate people.
ross
									
So, I walked down to the lobby with her and we kind of searched around for a bit. I was like, [mumbled] “I don’t know, good luck! I hope you find it.” [Carrie cackles.] ‘Cause I realized I was just getting in the way, at this point. [Carrie agrees.] I’m sure she found an elev—later on, I saw an elevator and I was like—
carrie
									
I know she did, ‘cause—
ross
									
“OH! Were close! I could have led her over here!” But I didn’t know.
carrie
									
She found that or the stairs, because the next time I saw her, it was a floor up!
ross
									
Okay! Linda Moulton knows Howe (how) to get around.
carrie
									
Mmmmm-hm! Mm-hmmm!
ross
									
So, uh, that was pretty delightful. Buuut, I also saw another person that we mentioned in our Contact in the Desert investigation.
carrie
									
Another UFO conference.
ross
									
Yeah! So, I—at this point, I was wandering up on the second floor…
carrie
									
[Delighted.] Ooh! I know who it’s gonna be! And [dropping her voice into a deep growl] I’m exciteeed!
ross
									
[Chuckles.] There’s all these booths for—oh my goodness, there’s so many things. There’s these really beautiful amethyst geodes and there’s, like, another booth with a bunch of Tibetan singing bowls. [Carrie affirms.] There’s another one with malas.
carrie
									
Uh-huh. I think there’s paintings on that floor, too.
ross
									
Oh yeah. Oh yeah! You ended up buying one of the paintings. So, a lot of interesting things going on. Oh yeah, the malas booth had a really interesting pamphlet that we both took photos of that explained—well, a) what a mala is. It’s—I guess the Sanskrit word for a garland, string of beads used in meditation to count mantras, prayers, or intentions. But the important thing is that they explained why a mala has 108 beads.
carrie
									
Yes! And we had heard about the number 108 when we hung out with Amma the hugging saint.
ross
									
Right! And also, in our “Vital Tones” episode, that was one of the important numbers there for some of the healing. So, the number 108 has a very powerful significance in the science and spirituality of India. Did you know that there are 108 letters in the Sanskrit alphabet?
carrie
									
I didn’t!
ross
									
But now you do! Vedic mathematicians measured the sun’s diameter to be 108 times larger than the diameter of the Earth.
carrie
									
Okay. [Ross laughs.] Were they right?
ross
									
Uh, they’re approximately right.
carrie
									
Oh! Okay.
ross
									
Yeah. Let’s see, they also measured the distance between the sun and the Earth to be 108 times the sun’s diameter, which obviously—you know—we don’t have a circular orbit, so on average that is about right. [Carrie affirms several times.] But also, it’s arbitrary. Why is that important? Is it? Maybe.
carrie
									
I mean, I guess if you find that that number keeps cropping up in a meaningful way… cool.
ross
									
Yeah, or maybe it’s tied to gravitational force, somehow. [Carrie agrees.] Interesting.
carrie
									
I mean, you know. 3.14, we remember that one. [Ross agrees several times.] It keeps popping up! Just keeps following circles around.
ross
									
There are 108 sacred texts of the Upanishads. [Carrie affirms several times as he continues.] 108 sacred holy sites in India. 108 acupressure-like points on the body.
carrie
									
So, some of these things are starting to feel like less confirmation and more like, “We already thought this number was holy and we started ascribing it to various things.”
ross
									
Yeah, like when Newton added indigo as a color of the spectrum—
carrie
									
So, we would have ROYGBIV.
ross
									
So, it would be seven, right. ‘Cause that’s a holy number. So, you get the idea. There were some other uses of 108. But I’m burying the lead, here. Yes, the next person that I saw was none other than [dropping to a lower register] Jimmy Church!
carrie
									
[In a low rumble.] Jimmy Chuuurch!
ross
									
[Dramatically.] Jimmy Church. So, he’s the host of the show Fade to Black.
carrie
									
Yeeeah. An internet radio show.
ross
									
Yeah! I saw him walking amongst those other booths, and I was kind of walking over to get close to him and someone said, “Oh! I need to see your wristband.” [Carrie hums in acknowledgement.] ‘Cause I guess there were gonna be workshops or talks down that hallway. And I said, “Oh! Sorry.” And at that point, I hadn’t even picked up my registration.
carrie
									
Oh gosh! Okay.
ross
									
Yeah! I’m just wandering about, having a good old time, and no one’s really checked at this point. So! “Oh! Sorry!” And so, he wandered back toward his booth. There were three other people behind the booth, including a guy who’s kind of like a handsome, aged, rocker fellow. [Carrie hums in acknowledgment.] But just to talk about Jimmy, for a second. So, we’ve mentioned him before and the reason we keep saying [dropping to a lower register] Jimmy Church— [Carrie echoes it.] —is because when he’s hosting his show or when he was on the stage at Contact in the Desert, [dropping back into the low growl] he would just constantly be talking like this! It would just seem like such an affect in tone, to me.
carrie
									
Yeah, a little bit of a put on.
ross
									
[Continuing the voice.] So, I was really curious to see the—you know, if he’s just walking around, how does he talk?
carrie
									
[High pitched and nasally.] “Hey there, Ross! It’s me, Jimmy Church!”
ross
									
[Still in a low register, but not as deep.] Yeah, it turns out when he’s talking, you know, it’s more like this! You know, this is just sort of his normal voice. But—
carrie
									
Still deep but—
ross
									
Yeah, definitely deep. But then, [dropping into an almost incoherent low grumble] he really could sound like this when he’s on the radio. [Carrie laughs.] So, uh—someone else was talking to him, so I walked up to that Fade to Black booth and they were selling a number of things, including—they had a Fade to Black roast—a dark roast. Great. You can get some coffee.
carrie
									
A what?! Oooh! Coffee. Got it. Got it. [Ross confirms.] I was picturing, like, a pig on a spit! And I was like, “That’s terrible!”
ross
									
[Chuckling.] Oh, no.
carrie
									
I also don’t know my meats. [They laugh.] Would you call that roast? I guess probably.
ross
									
Yeah?
carrie
									
Yeah? Okay.
ross
									
Yeah, if it’s on a spit, you’re roasting it, eh?
carrie
									
Alright, don’t email me about this. It’s sad.
ross
									
Nor me. But they were also selling their Black Moon Organic Full-Spectrum Vegan CBD Wellness Tincture.
carrie
									
Oookay!
crosstalk
									
Ross: That’s a lot of words, there. Carrie: Now I’m listening! Ross: [Laughing.] Yeah! Carrie: Okay!
ross
									
So, they got—the aging, handsome, rocker guy tells me about this really cool tincture. And he’s saying it has 1000mg+ CBD. [Carrie affirms.] And so, I’m thinking, “Okay, well you said 1000mg. That’s a gram.”
carrie
									
[Beat.] Oh, right! Uh-huh.
ross
									
But yeah. It’s the metric system, like— [Carrie agrees.] You just wanted to make it sound bigger than it was.
carrie
									
Oooh, I really—actually I bet he was told that number and he never thought about it.
ross
									
Maybe, okay. But I said, “Oh, 1000mg.” And he said, “Plus!”
crosstalk
									
Ross: Oh, wow, okay! Carrie: Oh okay, so one-point-something, grams.
ross
									
Right. So, then he’s telling me a bit about how it’s prepared and I’m thinking, “Oooh.” So, I said, “Is this a homeopathic preparation?” [Carrie makes a sound of understanding.] And he said, “Yeahhh!” And I was like, “Oooh, okay. Huh. Powerful.”
carrie
									
[Giggles.] As strong or stronger!
ross
									
It looked like he thought I was already on the hook to buy this thing. [Carrie makes an “oooh” sound.] And so, there’s so much of this at this conference where you just—at some point you have to walk away. [Carrie agrees several times.] There’s a lot of hard pressure sales tactics. And people just—you know, they look so desperate and you wanna help them out. Which is always my first inclination. I’m like, “Let me give you money just to take the pained expression off your face!” But I—
carrie
									
I get it.
ross
									
No, I don’t want it.
carrie
									
CBD is the non-psychoactive element in marijuana and hemp. And some people claim that it makes you calm or has an analgesic effect--meaning it dulls your pain. But it seems like the science is, like, not all there yet. There’s a really good Sawbones episode about a Consumer Reports report where they bought a bunch of that stuff and, like, half of it didn’t have any [laughing] CBD in it!
ross
									
Wooow.
carrie
									
Yeah. Terrible.
ross
									
And I’m guessing this one in particular would not show any signs of CBD having been anywhere near it.
carrie
									
Good point.
ross
									
Yeah, I did get to meet Jimmy Ch—[dropping into the low announcer voice] Jimmy Church. [Returning to his normal voice.] Though he was just Jimmy Church at the—at that point. And I told him, “Hey! I’ve listened to your show.” And he said, [speaking deeply] “Oh, you were on the show?!” “Oh no. No, just [chuckles] listened to it, but very nice to meet you and can I take a picture with you?” [Deeply.] “Yeah, you can do whatever you want.” [Carrie affirms.] So, I… humped his leg.
carrie
									
[Laughs.] You said do what thou wiiiilt!
ross
									
[Chuckling.] But yeah! Already. I hadn’t even gotten my wristband and I’ve met two celebrities.
carrie
									
Oh, my goodness.
ross
									
At least in our world, celebrities.
carrie
									
Oh, totally. Oh yeah. No, that’s—that’s an exciting morning. Now, what time would you say this is? ‘Cause I haven’t arrived yet in our chronology.
ross
									
Oh, okay. I took the picture with Jimmy Church just after 11:30. [Carrie affirms several times.] I think you may be wandering around downstairs or somewhere, at this point. ‘Cause we didn’t arrive too far apart from each other. We should mention another celebrity who was at this conference.
carrie
									
Russell Brand! [Ross agrees several times.] Yes! Of Forgetting Sarah Marshall fame. The only thing I’ve ever seen him in.
ross
									
That’s funny. My immediate go to is, “He used to be married to Katy Perry.”
carrie
									
That’s true too. [Ross agrees.] Took a picture of her in bed, tweeted it, she was very upset.
ross
									
Oh really?
carrie
									
Yeah, he seems [chuckles] like, not the greatest. But! Maybeee he’s doing better, because I know he’s in his sobriety, now. And maybe he’s turned a leaf.
ross
									
You know, that’s maybe what his featured keynote talk was about. Recovery! Freedom from our addictions.
carrie
									
Great. That sounds like something I should pay, what? $100 for?
ross
									
$110.00 
carrie
									
[Frustrated.] Oh, my gooood.
ross
									
He had two. The other one was a… workshop? I think? Called “Recovery Live”. An hour and a half. Also $110 to get into. [Carrie makes a shocked “whooo” sound.] So, I thought—[sighs].
crosstalk
									
Carrie: Rough. Ross: And then, like, I’ve heard him in interviews. [Carrie agrees several times as he continues.]
ross
									
And he strikes me as one of those people who just—he loves to talk, he loves to put things out there, he’s very energetic about it. But I feel like if you analyze what he’s saying—which can sound eloquent—there’s very little actual substance there. And, you know, he’s one of those people like, “Oh, I’m just putting questions out there. I’m just saying this. Oh, I’m just exploring this! Isn’t this interesting that we’re talking about this? But I’m—” You know, it’s like, when you come full circle, like, have you actually put anything out there? I don’t know if you have! So, I didn’t feel like that was worth $110 to me, that day.
carrie
									
It’s interesting, because that’s making me think of me and you. ‘Cause one thing that I always think about is how—okay, [chuckles] this is the analogy that comes to mind in my weird head. [Ross affirms.] You have a—you have a cross-stitch, embroidery thing. What do you call that?
ross
									
Cross-stitch.
carrie
									
I’m clearly ready to give this analogy. [They laugh.] Just, like! Like, embroidery on a little—
ross
									
Screen.
carrie
									
Loop thingy.
ross
									
That’s funny. It’s—
carrie
									
I’ll just say a pillow!
ross
									
Which looks like a lot like our little pop filters, here. [Carrie agrees.] Yeah. Okay.
carrie
									
But, okay. You look at the embroidery and you’re like, “Oh, that’s really beautiful, intricate, interesting.” But you cannot have that without the fabric underneath that the beautiful embroidery’s going on. [Ross affirms.] I feel like I’m good at, like, connecting thoughts and stuff, but I would never remember 90% of the things we cover if you weren’t there with the pillow.
ross
									
[Surprised.] Oh! Okay! [Carrie laughs.] Well, thank you!
carrie
									
You’re like—you’re very good at, like, keeping a lot of facts and details and, like, really—I don’t know. You’re very smart! I just come along and I, like, knit the thing at the end. [Ross thanks her.] You’re welcome. [Laughs.]
ross
									
It’s a very lovely embroidery. It’s good teamwork.
carrie
									
So, anyway, I feel like what you described Russell Brand—he’s like, all the thread. It’s all just thread. [Ross hums in understanding.] I haven’t pulled in any data or facts or reference materials at all! It’s just all the embroidery. Here it is, bleh.
ross
									
I see where you’re going with that and, uh—well thank you. That’s very nice. [Carrie chuckles.] Well, it would be a very boring podcast if it was just me recounting every single detail that I wanted to communicate. Listeners, you should know that Carrie is the one who forces me to eventually move on, ‘cause otherwise I would still be telling our Ayahuasca story. So, it’s good—
carrie
									
You need the pillow. You need the embroidery.
ross
									
It’s good teamwork. I like that. So, yeah. Russell Brand, wasn’t feeling it that day. Not $110 worth.
carrie
									
Yeah, god, me neither.
ross
									
Sorry, listeners.
carrie
									
Yeah, but—you know. Go watch him on YouTube. There’s a million things of him.
ross
									
Ooor! Sign up for Gaia, the world’s largest conscious media network, and you could probably see his talk there! [Carrie agrees.] For a mere $11 or $12 per month.
crosstalk
									
Carrie: Do it. Ross: That’s what Julie told me. I’m not gonna look it up.
carrie
									
[Giggles.] Yeah, he ended up being in the room next to mine for another talk, and he was so loooud! And everyone kept clapping for him, and I happened to be in, like, a very sort of [whispering for emphasis] serious, soft spoken talk.
crosstalk
									
Ross: Oooh no! Carrie: So, it was very irritating.
ross
									
I’ve been in that situation before. Well, on our investigations where you’re trying to hear something about the sacred masters and there’s music piping in from the next room. And clapping.
carrie
									
And you’re like, “They’re having more fun!”
ross
									
Well, I hope it was 110 decibels.
carrie
									
Probably was. Or 108. [Ross makes an “oooh!” sound and laughs.] He should have made his talk $108!
ross
									
You’re right!
carrie
									
Ugh.
crosstalk
									
Ross: Oh, missed— Carrie: Missed opportunity! Ross: [Chuckling.] Indeed. Uh, so what were you up to?
carrie
									
Oh! You know, okay. I was there. Well, lets see. When I got in there, it was February 8th, 2020. And it felt like it was—
ross
									
Oh yeah, that’s important context. February 8th and 9th. Those are the days we were there.
carrie
									
Okay. So, I get there and oh my god! I walked into the exhibit floor and it is sensorially overwhelming. [Ross agrees.] It is so much!
ross
									
Oh yeah, you’re talking about, like, the vendor boothsss. [Carrie agrees.] Oh! Yes! It is—
carrie
									
Oh my god. The sighs, the sounds, the smells! It’s just so much stimulation!
ross
									
Right! Like, seriously, do—
carrie
									
[Laughing.] We’re both touching our faces!
crosstalk
									
Ross: We’re covering our eyes! Carrie: Just with the memory! Oh god!
ross
									
The memory is a sensory overloooad! [Carrie laughs.] Yeah, just imagine every investigation we’ve talked about, with people trying to sell us devices and energy systems and preach spiritual messages and tell you about their guru. And it’s just everywhere, all around, from all angles. [Carrie agrees.] Hundreds of—probably, like, 108 booths.
carrie
									
Yeah, it’s like if you had a fever dream after listening to a bunch of our episodes and then, like— [Ross laughs weakly.] Everyone we’ve ever met is like, [nasally] “Do you wanna join thiiiis? Do you wanna join THIIIIS?!” And it’s, like, coming in and out of cloud. [They laugh.] That’s this conference!
ross
									
I’m picturing it like a Baz Luhrmann film. [Carrie agrees.] You know, where everything’s in this fish-eye camera and people, like, right up in your face. It’s crazy.
carrie
									
Oh my god. It’s exactly like that.
ross
									
It’s wild.
carrie
									
I walked in and I—within a few feet was like, “Oh god, I have to do this for two days. Oh my god. Okay. Okay.” But yeah. There’s hundreds of vendors there. [Ross agrees several times.] And so, yeah. I started walking around and the first person I interacted with was a guy who was testing chakras. So, he had a sign up that said, “Get your chakras tested!” And I thought, “Oh! Cool!” And so, I said, “So, how much is this?” And he said, “Weeeell, a half hour psychic reading is this much, and a channeling is this much, and this is this—” And I was like, “Oh, well wait, the sign is for chakra balancing. How much is that?” And he, [laughs], he like leans over and looks at the sign on his own table and he’s like, “Huh!” [They laugh.] “Okay! Uuh, hmmm.”
ross
									
“I didn’t know I could balance chakras!
carrie
									
[Laughing.] Yeah! So, he’s like—
ross
									
“But I said I could!”
carrie
									
[Laughs.] So, he kind of caucuses with the woman next to him. [Carrie makes grumbling noises to imitate hushed speech.] [Ross wheezes with laughter.] And then he’s like, “I guess it’s free?” And I’m like, “[Beat.] Greeeat… I’ll take one!” [Ross agrees.] So, [barely able to speak through laughter] I sit down with him. He has his laptop and he’s just click, click, click, click, click, click, click. “Okay, I guess I—hmm. I pull up this proooogram…” [Ross makes a sound of utter disbelief. They laugh.] I mean, that was so weird! “Okay. Here we go. And then… Okaaay. Alright.”
ross
									
I feel like you could have just as easily said, “You know what? Let me look up on my phone how to balance a chakra. I’ll do it for you!
carrie
									
Right?! Right! Totally! And he’s like—
ross
									
At the same value!
carrie
									
He’s barely glancing at me while his eyes are locked on the computer, ‘cause he’s clearly doing this for the first time ever! [Ross giggles.] And he grabs a pair of headphones and he’s like, “Okay, um… h-here.” [Laughing.] And, like, hand them to me with no certainty. [Ross makes a sound of disbelief.] Okay, then I put them on my ears! And then he’s reading the instructions as he’s telling me this. He’s like, “Okay. You’re gonna listen for some clicks. It might be loud. But I still need you to press it against your ears, really hard.” I went, “Okay.” [Ross affirms several times as she continues.] So, I’m pressing these headphones against my ears. Luckily, it wasn’t that loud. But it does go [makes a breathy “kuh-kuh-kuh-kuh” clicking sound]. You know. It’s working. It’s doing something. Okay, so, “Click-click-click-click-click-click-click-click-click,” and—
ross
									
Wh-what’s it connected to?
carrie
									
His computer, I think. [Ross affirms.] Yeah. And then up comes a readout of me. Of my body and my chakras on his screen.
ross
									
Okay, just based on the input of playing a sound to your ears. [Carrie hums several affirmatives.] Okay. And it—was it just connected via one of these, like, 8th inch cables? To the computer?
carrie
									
That’s a very good Ross question. See, this is why you need the pillow! [Laughs.]
ross
									
‘Cause [laughs]—‘cause, well, I’m just wondering—like—what, information could possibly be coming back from the headphones to the computer?
carrie
									
Right. I suspect none.
ross
									
[Laughing.] Yeah! I suspect that as well.
carrie
									
But if I had to guess, I’d say a USB cable? But—
ross
									
Okay, alright. Well, at least then you can have a bi-directional, uuh… transfer of information.
carrie
									
But that’s only a guess. I…
ross
									
I mean, theoretically, you could, over the—yeah, I’ve—yeah, you could have, like, a microphone. Okay. Alright.
carrie
									
Yeah, I don’t—
ross
									
I’m thinking about this too hard.
carrie
									
[Laughs.] You’re thinking about it more than he ever had! Okay, up pops this. And as you can see, Ross: if you walked up to this, you’d be like, “Well, that’s Carrie! There she is!”
ross
									
Oh, yeah! You’ve got a cross section of somebody’s liver and lungs and other internal organs. It looks like you just cut a cross section into a cadaver. [Carrie agrees.] Which is probably what that photo is.
carrie
									
Yeah! Probably. But that’s meeee!
ross
									
And it’s—yeah, got little, yellow labeled numbers.
carrie
									
Yeah. So, some are yellow, some are white, some are red. One is black. So—
ross
									
Were you splenetic?
carrie
									
What’s that mean?
ross
									
Bad tempered or spiteful.
carrie
									
Not yet! Most of the numbers say two. There are a few ones, a few threes, one four, and one five. So, he explained, “Okay. These are all on a scale of one to seven, where seven is emergency problem, one is—"
ross
									
Goat sperm.
carrie
									
[Breaking into a laugh.] One is, uh, functioning perfectly. [Ross affirms.] So, he said, like, “Twos, threes, we don’t really worry about.”
ross
									
That’s always weird, when the bottom of the scale is the desired thing.
carrie
									
I know. I know. It was so distracting, the whole time he was talking. I was like, “Seven bad, seven bad, not good, seven bad.”
ross
									
It’s like asking me to read from right to left. [Carrie agrees.] You know, we’re just not built that way in this society.
carrie
									
Right. He points, “Okay, anything that’s a five or up, we really should pay attention to.” [Ross affirms several times.] I only have one five. And it is—I don’t know if you can even see that, but it’s on the cadaver’s left side. Kind of like between a couple ribs, on the very outer—
ross
									
Oooh! These are little hexagons! [Carrie agrees.] Okay. It almost feels like Settlers of Catan being played on a dead body. Where’s that five? I don’t see it.
carrie
									
Oh, it’s—okay, so it’s that little guy. [Ross makes a sound of realization.] I’m gonna zoom out again.
ross
									
Oh, it’s a different color. Oh okay. [Carrie agrees.] Yeah.
carrie
									
Yeah. It’s like, right under—like—my armpit.
ross
									
Okay. Well, what are they gonna do about it?
carrie
									
Okay. So, that’s bad. So, I’m like, “Well, what does that mean?” Okay, so he says, “Well that’s—"
ross
									
Means you need to pay for a $40 realignment.
carrie
									
Nope! He says, “Okay, that’s your coronal [struggling to remember] thorough-calcifie,” or something like that, I’m trying to read his screen. [Ross giggles.] “That’s a problem with your heart chakra.” I’m like, “Oh no! So, like, love?” [Flatly.] “No. Your heart chakra has to do with your physical heart or neurological, endocrine, digestion, respiratory, or cardiovascular problems.”
ross
									
Those are a lot of problems.
carrie
									
That’s… so many potential problems!
ross
									
Here’s a haystack! [Carrie laughs.] You might have a needle in there!
carrie
									
But I’m thinking, at first, as he’s—like—listing these things, I’m thinking like, “Ha-ha, everybody’s got a problem in one of those.” And then I’m like, “I don’t know, I really don’t! None of those things bother me.” And right under—right under it—is, like, migraines. Tension headaches. Anxiety. [Ross makes an “oooh” sound.] All the things that I actually do have! And that one was functioning perfect.
ross
									
That’s not in the category. Ah-ha-ha. [Carrie affirms.] I sense a flaw in his system!
carrie
									
Yup! And then there was a [laughing] second diagram. This one’s even better. This is also me. [Ross makes a sound of surprise.] This stick figure.
ross
									
Oh, I see. Layered on top of a skeleton, we have these hexagons. So, the twos are hexagons. Those are fine. Threes are triangles. Red triangles—orange triangles. Something like that. Okay. So, you’re all twos and threes.
carrie
									
Yeah. So, there I guess I’m fiiine?
ross
									
Yeah, good job. Congratulations.
carrie
									
He couldn’t really explain, though—you know, I’m looking at this and I’m like, “Okaaaay, so now my upper body looks fine. Where’d that five goooo?” And he’s like, “Yeah, it’s—it’s an imperfect system.” [They laugh.] “You know, I’m not—I, you know, I’m kind of new at this particular program.” Like, yeah it shows! So, uh, he didn’t charge me for that. [Ross affirms with amusement.] And then he didn’t charge me for that and then he didn’t try to upsell me to get anything else. So, I was like, “Okay! Well! Byeeee!” [They laugh.] Yeah. Great salesman.
ross
									
I guess, at that point, you’re like, “Eeh, this hasn’t been that impressive. I’m not gonna successful if I try to sell her on a $40 realignment or whatever.”
carrie
									
And maybe, you know, he was thinking, like, “Oh, she’s kind of doing me the favor of being my guinea pig on this first one while I figure this out.”
ross
									
Yeah! Now he’ll be ready for the next person. He can act super confident about it.
carrie
									
Exactly. He’ll be like, “You got a click! You gotta hold it to your ears!”
ross
									
Oh, I wish that had been me! [Chuckles.] [Carrie agrees.] I didn’t visit that particular booth.
carrie
									
Yeah, you could have been the second. So, then I went a row over and got stopped by this woman who was selling sticky pads. So, they were these little—[breaks into a laugh]. [Ross affirms with hesitation.] It’s only gonna get weirder, folks! They were these little, round stickers. And she said, “Okay! What you do, is you put one on your neck and you put one on your side and energy is gonna go between those two sticky pads. So, you have to have two. You have to complete the circuit.” And she’s explaining all this—
ross
									
Oh yeah. Takes two points to define a line.
carrie
									
Sure. As she’s explaining all this and, uh, neglects to tell me what it does. She’s just [laughing] telling me, like, “You gotta put it on yourself and you get—you complete the circuit!” And I’m like, “Uh-huh. And then what?” “Oh! Well, and then you just wait!” “Right. Sorry. What—but what does it—what’s it—what’s it fooor?” [Ross laughs.] “Oh! Oh. Yeah, y-y-y-yeah! Well, uh. It’s for, like—mmm, what’s it for? It’s for—like, ooooh, just like—a generaaaaal…”
ross
									
You’re asking really tough questions!
carrie
									
[Wheezing with laughter.] “Just, like, general, like—aaaaah, you know? Just like, really feeling good! Really healthy. Really, oooh, just to the top of my gaaame!” Wh-wh-what!? [Carrie agrees several times as Ross speaks.]
ross
									
I feel like—so, our approach, I feel, is so different from everybody else I would assume was attending this conference. It makes me think of how, like, back in the day you would have a movie with zombies and, like, the zombies just show up and they’re terrifying and people run away from them. But nowadays, if you make a zombie movie, you have to explain, like, is it a virus? Or, like, what is the transmission mechanism and what are the rules of this zombie outbreak? And, like, everything has to be really explained out. So, you have to start with that little backstory. Whereas, back in the day you could just have monsters or whatever show up. So, I feel like—at this conference, usually it’s just assumed that whatever you’re offering, “Yeah! This is valid and necessary!” But you and I are like, “Wait—okay, what is this actually affecting?”
carrie
									
Right. What’s this fooor?
ross
									
What is it doing—?
carrie
									
Why!?
ross
									
What is it doing to the cell? How do the magnets connect to my happiness? [Laughs.] [Carrie laughs and agrees.] And I just feel like, for other people—even the vendors themselves—it’s a secondary question as to what the real mechanistic explanation is.
carrie
									
Yeah. Although, I think she was especially bad at her job. [Laughing.] Like, she wasn’t— [Ross agrees several times as Carrie talks.] Most of these people will still, at least, be like, “And it heals you!” Or something! But she finally got there. She was like, “For some people, it clears up their skin. It can just do general healing. Pain management. Energy.” And then she showed me a picture of this woman who was probably in, like, her 70s. And she’s pointing at the “before” photo, where the woman’s not smiling. She’s like, “Look at this. I mean, bags under her eyes and crow’s feet and la-la-la-la.” And then this photo! This better lit photo, where she’s smiling and has gotten more sleep—thiiiiis is when she had done the patches! And look how much better she looks! And it’s a better picture, but it’s still—you know, the same woman at the same point in life. I was like, “Oooh, okay. Cool, cool, cool.” So, she put one on the back of my neck and then another one—she—you gotta complete the circuit, Ross! You must complete the circuit.
ross
									
Oh yeah, right away.
carrie
									
So, she puts the other on, like, my right hip. And she says, “Okay, now. I can tell you’re a scientifically minded person. So—"
ross
									
‘Cause you asked that one question.
carrie
									
‘Cause you asked what it’s for!
ross
									
“What does this do?” [They laugh.] Nobody else asked that.
carrie
									
“So, why don’t you go home and sleep with it and, you know, if you feel something, come back.” And I’m like, “Oh! Yeah. Okay! That’s—I like it.”
ross
									
She’s gonna send you home with the product?!
carrie
									
Yeah, well they’re disposable little circles of plastic.
ross
									
Oh, okay. It’s already gonna be thrown away, anyway.
carrie
									
Yeah. For sure. Yeah, so I—
ross
									
So, now you’re set for life. You’ve got it.
carrie
									
I’ve [laughing] completed my circuit. No! ‘Cause she’s like, “Now, this is reeeally important: do not leave it on for more than 12 hours.”
ross
									
Or what’ll happen?
carrie
									
[Laughing.] Right. I’m like, “Why? What’s in it?” [Ross wheezes into a laugh.] “Well—I mean, it’s proprietary. So, it’s like—but it’s—but it’s very powerful and you just don’t wanna—you don’t wanna have it—"
ross
									
Why?
carrie
									
[Through laughter.] “You don’t wanna have it for—[wheezes].”
ross
									
[Wheezing with laughter.] Why don’t—what is—?! What’ll happen?
carrie
									
Okay. Okay! I’ll—
ross
									
Will my toes fall off?!
carrie
									
Is that because I need to apply a new one? ‘Cause that’s suspicious. [Ross laughs.] But, okay. So, then I—she said, um—I can’t remember if I prompted this or not, but she did say that they had studies on the website. And I’m like, “Oh! Love it! Okay! I’m gonna go to the—I’ll go to the website and look at the studies!” [Ross agrees.] And she’s like, “Oh.” And she used the phrase “double-blind.” [Ross makes a sound of delighted surprise.] And I was like, “Sweet! Okay! You know what you’re talking about, alright!” And I went and looked. [Laughing.] Definitely not true. It—I—it was, like, studies that are, you know, really—people do this all the time with the stuff we look at. And it will be like, “Oh, this study shows that heat does a thing to calm you. Okay, well there’s kind of heat activated in this patch.”
ross
									
One piece of our claim, here, is buttressed by this study, which wasn’t about this product. [Carrie agrees.] Isn’t about this process.
carrie
									
It was all that.
ross
									
But it supports our general synthesis. [Carrie agrees.] Yep. Yep.
carrie
									
So, it turns out this thing is an MLM. It’s called Lifewave X39. They have great videos on their website.
ross
									
Yeah?
carrie
									
Oh, yes. A lot of people being like, [in a silly, low voice] “I’m a doctor. And in 30 years, I’ve never seen anything like this.” [Ross laughs.] Which, A) Okay. And B) they didn’t put the names of any of the doctors on the bottom of the screen, in the lower third.
ross
									
Okay. No Chirons.
carrie
									
Then I went to the website and looked up the only doctor who’s listed on the website, and he has been barred from prescribing medicine because he was prescribing himself injectable Demerol for years.
ross
									
[Quietly.] Oh, goodness.
carrie
									
Yeah. His name’s Dr. Haltiwanger.
ross
									
See, this is Carrie. [Laughs.]
carrie
									
Well! You’re welcome, everybody! Sooo, anyway.
ross
									
So, should we buy in? Is that what you’re saying?
crosstalk
									
Carrie: Uh, probably? Ross: I feel convinced. Carrie: That saleswoman has been texting me quite a bit. So. Ross: Oooh no, she got your number. Carrie: Yep. Literally. Ross: And, aw, poor dear. She’s probably paid $500 for an introductory package. Carrie: I knooow. I know.
ross
									
All she has to do is just sell all of these and she’ll turn a profit! [Carrie agrees.] And recruit five new members.
carrie
									
Yeah, so—oh yeah, we’re talking about multilevel marketing here, which is a—to put it unfavorably, it’s a pyramid scheme. [Ross agrees.] Yeah. It’s technically not, according to whatever [laughs]. Government. But it is.
ross
									
It’s a mathematical impossibility that you will actually make money from this, unless you’re at the top of this.
carrie
									
Unless you founded the gosh darn thing.
ross
									
Pyramid-like structure.
carrie
									
And if you did, you suck. Okay. So—
ross
									
Well, Carrie, I can’t wait to hear what you saw next on the show floor, but—
carrie
									
Okay, what I saw next was—
ross
									
Nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-no, I—you know what. I can wait. Because first I want you to tell me about websites, in general. [Carrie affirms.] ‘Cause you were telling me about this website. Would you say it was professionally designed?
carrie
									
Oh, good question. Let me take a look at it. [Beat.] Uuum. It looks gooood. It could look betterrrrr.
ross
									
Okay, well let’s say—
carrie
									
I want it to be more, like, beautiful.
ross
									
Okay. What if I wanted to design a website, but I wanted to design it beautiful?
carrie
									
Mm! Okay, so like, you’re selling your own patch that does a questionable thing. [Ross agrees.] And you want it to at least look good.
ross
									
Yeah! Right.
carrie
									
You should use Squarespace!
ross
									
Oooh! Do they allow you to blog or publish content?
carrie
									
Oh, yeah! Totally. Yeah. You can do pretty much anything that’s legal on a website, on Squarespace.
ross
									
Okay. What if I wanna promote my physical or online business?
carrie
									
Oh yeah! Oh! Oh!
ross
									
Or maybe, like, announce an upcoming event or special project?
carrie
									
Oh, absolutely. If you’re getting married, say, you could put your wedding website on there. And it’ll look great. [Carrie agrees several times as Ross speaks.]
ross
									
Tell me about these designers. I assume there’s templates, but are these—like—regional class designers?
carrie
									
[Carrie make a negative “mm-mm” sound.] No. It’s not like Linda Moulton Howe’s regional Emmy. This is a worldwide honor. The designers of the templates at Squarespace are world class, Ross!
ross
									
Oh! Wow! Okay! [Carrie affirms.] I’m interested, now. Can you describe, maybe, the level of eCommerce functionality?
carrie
									
Yeah. Okay. Well, you know—like, sometimes you have sort of a middling eCommerce functionality? [Ross agrees.] This is, like, a powerful eCommerce functionality. I mean, truly functional, truly powerful, truly “e”, truly “commerce”.
ross
									
Wow! Okay. Well, if I wanna buy a new domain name with an extension, am I stuck with “.com”?
carrie
									
Ye—nooooo!
ross
									
Really?!
carrie
									
Yeah! I pulled the rug out from under you, there. There are over 200 extensions.
ross
									
I can’t even think of that many extensions.
carrie
									
Me neither! [Ross affirms.] I mean, can you think of 200 people you’ve ever met? Probably not! [Beat.] Well, maybe with enough time. But! [They laugh.] Not off the top of your head! And off the top of your head, you could also not name the 200 extensions! And I’ve made a point. [They giggle.]
ross
									
I would imagine they probably have customer support of some sort. [Carrie agrees.] Maybe during certain hours?
carrie
									
Uh, well! Yes, all the hours. They actually have 24/7 award winning—
ross
									
[In disbelief.] Every one of the hours?! [Carrie confirms.] This is amazing.
carrie
									
And that’s award-winning customer support, as well. [Ross affirms.] This customer support got a regional Emmy.
ross
									
Okay, so let’s say I start building my website. Can I start building it without paying for it?
carrie
									
Uh, you can. Yeah! Actually, what you would do is you’d check out Squarespace.com/ohno for a free trial.
ross
									
Okay, doing that.
carrie
									
And then, uh—
ross
									
Slash “ohno”, you say? [Carrie confirms.] O-H-N-O? Okay.
carrie
									
And then, when you’re ready to actually launch, you really love how it looks, you’re like, “Ah! People are gonna say I’m a pro.” Then you use the offer code “ohno” to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.
ross
									
That’s amazing. [Carrie agrees.] Well, thank you for answering all my questions about websites.
carrie
									
Yeah, no problem. I’m very helpful. You know what else is helpful?
ross
									
What would that be?
carrie
									
When you’re bored and you need to be entertained. [Ross affirms.] And you need something to just sort of distract you and keep you going.
ross
									
Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Probably, for that, you’d want a fun game for your phone! [Carrie agrees.] Our phones do so many things. We shouldn’t even call them phones. But there’s no good replacement term. Pocket computers? That’s—
carrie
									
Come on. That sounds stupid.
ross
									
Five syllables and very nerdy.
carrie
									
And it makes it sound like you’re like Urkel.
ross
									
Well, whatever you wanna call that machine, it can also—in addition to taking pictures and notes and all these other things—it can play games! You can have a little bit of, uh, fun on the side! You know, it’s not all work and no play. That makes Jack a dull boy!
carrie
									
Yeah, we all need a break every now and then.
ross
									
May I recommend, if you’re looking for such a game to have on your phone, Best Fiends! [Carrie affirms curiously.] Yeah, we’ve talked about this on the show before. I am now at level 821.
carrie
									
Oh damn. How many levels are there? Do we know?
ross
									
Yeah! Actually, [laughs] I did find, somewhere, there was a progress—‘cause before, I said, “As far as I know, it’s infinite.” Oh yeah, okay. I’m at 820 out of 2660. And I’ve been plugging away at this game for a while, so this can provide many hours of entertainment.
carrie
									
You’re doing well, though!
ross
									
Thank you! Yeah! I feel like I’m moving right along. Footloose and fancy-free. And this is a free download.
carrie
									
Okay. Nice. Nice. It’s got pretty graphics.
ross
									
You can collect all kinds of bugs that help you make your way through. So, in every level—here, I’m gonna load this up for you, ‘cause Carrie’s cocking her head curiously. [Carrie confirms.] So, for example, in this—
carrie
									
[Dreamily.] Beneath the willow…
ross
									
So, in this level, I need to defeat five slugs, but I have also gotta clear all these little cages with the little yellow guys in them. And so, I connect all these similarly colored flowers and mushrooms and leaves. It’s a puzzle game, but it’s got all these achievements. And there’s characters for you to level up that give you more powers. And you have to figure out which ones do I use best to help me get through this level. And yeah, it’s fun! I do it while I watch a TV show or sit there in bed, putting off editing this show.
carrie
									
[Laughs.] And we’ve got cute characters. I’m looking at them, folks. [Ross agrees.] Cuteness is important to me, in a character. And these are cute characters.
ross
									
Indeed. Yeah, I have a lot of fun with this. So, I’ve been playing it now for quite a few months.
carrie
									
And it’s a—would you say it’s a unique puzzle experience?
ross
									
That’s exactly what I would say!
carrie
									
Would you say it’s an exciting puzzle experience?
ross
									
I would say it is exciting. You know. And it’s not for—it’s not just for, like, serious gamers. They would enjoy it, but it’s for everybody. And yeah, it can follow you all over the place and it doesn’t even require an internet connection.
carrie
									
Oh! That’s nice. Oh, so that’s—that’s a good travel game.
ross
									
I used to be more of a, like, PC gamer, but now I find most of my game playing happens on the phone. So, I highly recommend Best Fiends. And it’s free download. Though, you can also pay for in-game upgrades to make it even easier to play or you can give yourself advanced characters. But you don’t have to. [Carrie confirms.] But you might want to.
carrie
									
But you might want to! We’re not your parents.
ross
									
And you can connect with your friends on Facebook. You’ll see immediately, like, “Ooh, I didn’t know Cindy played this game! Oh, I didn’t know Mark played it!” You can send them gems and other gifts and they’ll send them back to you every day. Yeah. There’s all kinds of—all kinds of things—
carrie
									
Alright. I love Cindy and Mark!
ross
									
All kinds of things to do.
carrie
									
Best Fiends has thousands of levels already, with new levels, events, and characters added every month.
ross
									
It’s hours of fun right at your fingertips, and you can even play offline.
carrie
									
With over 100 billion downloads and tons of 5-star reviews, Best Fiends is a must-play.
ross
									
Download Best Fiends free on the App Store or Google Play.
carrie
									
That’s “friends” without the “r”—Best Fiends.
carrie
									
Back to me. Okay. So, one of my favorite vendors at Conscious Life Expo was Starfire Water.
ross
									
Oooh, okay. I took a picture of their booth. But I didn’t talk to them.
carrie
									
We ran into them—okay. We’ve run into them once before.
ross
									
Oh yeah! That’s right. That’s right.
carrie
									
It was our reflexologist, back in—probably, like, 2014, 2015? [Ross confirms with surprise.] And so, it is a crystalline, alkaline water. With—
ross
									
Okay. Alkaline as opposed to acidic. [Carrie confirms.] It’s basic. Okay.
carrie
									
And it has “sacred sound resonance transmission”, Ross.
ross
									
Well, that’s good.
carrie
									
The front of it has a yin and yang and two wings. I’m gonna read you the entire back of it, ‘cause it’s all so good. [Ross affirms.] “Legend has it that the mystical Starfire was the liquid mana of the divine, used by the ancients for ultra-focus, extreme performance, and even enlightenment. In that vein, we introduce Starfire Water: a propriety alkaline performance bio-holographic living water, produced using breakthrough 21st century quantum water technology.” [Ross makes a pained sound.] “Starfire Water is treated with ultraviolet,” comma, “ozonation, infrared stimulation, and electromagnetism, for a negative ion charged water, as in nature—allowing deep cellular intake through your aquaporins: the floodgates to hydration.” There’s more! “Vortex induced, using a solar helix and pyramid grid system, to give it a hexagonal structure. And infused with monatomic elements. We're able to achieve a water with cosmic healing energy. This water is amplified with a psionic wave oscillation tuned to the universe's frequency.”
ross
									
Oh, my goodness.
carrie
									
“Helping to synchronize you with the heartbeat of our Earth. [Laughing.] Starfire Water is treated with sacred sound resonance transmission to vibrationally transform you on the deepest molecular level. Altogether, we’ve created the world’s first premium alkaline performance, living, hexagonal, superstructured water.”
ross
									
Wooow. [Carrie laughs.] Wooow. [Carrie agrees.] The chutzpah it takes to write something like that!
carrie
									
And you know who did?
ross
									
Who did that?
carrie
									
I met the creator of Starfire Water. [Ross gasps.] He was there. He was shouting a lot. He was singing. He was getting people over to the booth. What do you think is the name of the person who invented Starfire Water?
ross
									
Oh, I hope it’s Gerald Starfire.
carrie
									
[Laughs softly.] He just goes by one name.
crosstalk
									
Ross: Cher? Carrie: It’s a mononym. Ross: [Laughing.] Okay.
carrie
									
[Flatly.] Jeff.
ross
									
Jeff?! [Breaks into laughter.] Known simply as Jeff.
carrie
									
[Laughing.] I just love—I thought for sure he was gonna be, like, Dragonfly or something. [Ross agrees with a laugh.] Nope! Jeff. “Hey, what’s up?”
ross
									
That’s right up there with SRI Harold Klemp.
carrie
									
Yeah, totally. So—
ross
									
[Dramatically.] Creator of Starfire Water: Jeff.
carrie
									
[Laughs.] So, this is just your average—let’s see, 16.9 fluid ounce water bottle. They were selling these for, I believe, four and half dollars. But they were also—
ross
									
Legend has it?! Who’s telling this legend?!
carrie
									
Also, I didn’t say them out loud, but throughout that description is so many trademark marks.
ross
									
Oooh, interesting. And looking through the bottle, from the other side, on that same label but facing the interior of the bottle, you can see this illustration. And it’s got a pyramid with some sort of—well, let’s see. We’ve certainly got our hexagonal structure. Oh, yeah, it’s kind of like one of those world tree—world flower graphics with all the interlocking circles inside of the hexagon. [Carrie affirms.] There’s also a pi symbol. So, you know. 3.141596—you know. Whyyy? What’s going on?
crosstalk
									
Carrie: An infinity. An— Carrie and Ross: Ohm.
carrie
									
And the international symbol for medicine.
ross
									
Oh, really? Wait. Let me see.
carrie
									
Yeah, on the left. The doctor symbol.
ross
									
Oh—oh, I see. The caduceus. With—
carrie
									
[Mumbling.] An anarchy symbol.
ross
									
But with, like, a DNA helix coming off the bottom of it. [Carrie affirms.] Interesting. I—rather than snakes twining down the—oh, wow.
carrie
									
That’s kind of an improvement.
ross
									
Yeah, I didn’t see that one. Okay. Oh, and then—yeah, there’s lightning coming down and hitting—oh yeah! Okay. It’s—that triangle is like a pyramid with the all-seeing eye top—you know, separated top of the pyramid. The capstone. And lightning hitting that. Well, you know. A for effort. [Carrie snorts a laugh.] But also, F for effort.
carrie
									
Don’t drink it all, but you should taste it. It is good water.
ross
									
Is it good water?
carrie
									
Yeah. I liked it. It’s tasty.
ross
									
Well, geez, you paid $4.50 for this?
carrie
									
No! I paid zero dollars for that! [Ross makes a sound of confusion.] And let me tell you why.
ross
									
Is this like how you got your parking?
carrie
									
[Laughing.] Nooo! Like—also known as theft. [Ross giggles.] No. So, they were also selling—
ross
									
That was—it’s—it’s good water, sure. Yeah.
carrie
									
Yeah, it’s good. They were also selling insaaane baseball caps.
ross
									
[Confused.] Insane baseball caps?
carrie
									
Yes. Baseball caps with sayings and designs on them—
ross
									
Like, “Make America great again”?
carrie
									
That were—[laughs] not quite that nuts. But were—wooow. Messages of every kind. There were ones that said, like, “Unicorn fire is here”. Just lots of thoughts, don’t really know what most of them meant. And one of them was a hot pink baseball cap with a yellow heart on it. Huge, oversized yellow heart. Didn’t quite fit on the cap. [Ross chuckles.] Baaarely attached to it.
ross
									
Is this the one you bought for Drew?
carrie
									
Yes, I did. [Ross laughs.] It says “kiss” on it.
ross
									
It came from this booth?
carrie
									
Yes! So, the guy who makes Starfire Water—Jeff—he also—
ross
									
The Jeff?! [Carrie confirms, laughing.] I know a Jeff.
carrie
									
[Laughing.] No, this the Jeff. He also makes these wild hats. And if you bought one of hit hats, he’d give you one of these bottles of water for free.
ross
									
How does he talk?! Does he talk in this flowery, quantum-entangled language?
carrie
									
He sings most of what he says.
ross
									
[Stammering in confusion.] What?
carrie
									
Yeah. [They laugh.] So, I was—I was walking up and he was going, [singing atonally] “Staaaarfire Wateeeeer!”
ross
									
Don’t make me like him! I don’t wanna like Jeff!
carrie
									
It was mostly that. And then I talked to one of his employees. This young woman. And she was telling me about him, and I was like, “Yeah, he seems like quite a character.” And she was like, “[Sighs.] He’s—that’s a way to say it. Yes.” [Ross giggles.] And that’s when I learned, I said, “What’s his name?” And she’s like, “Jeff.” And I was like, “JEFF?!” And she said, “I know!” [Laughs.]
ross
									
It’s so funny. My boss, Tracy, at one point said, “I never want anyone to describe me as ‘a piece of work’.” [Carrie agrees several times.] Kind of the worst—it would take a story to really describe this person. But they’re a piece of work.
carrie
									
In not so great a way.
ross
									
Never a great way. This logo on the front—Starfire Water has this symbol that—I’m afraid I can only give this in nerd terms. It looks like—
carrie
									
Well, I called it a yin and yang with two wings on it. [Ross agrees.] What would you call it?
ross
									
You’re correct. So, my thought is that it looks like a snitch, from Harry Potter. [Carrie affirms with a chuckle.] But with a yin yang symbol in the middle that kind of looks like a Sinnoh stone from Pokémon Go!.
carrie
									
Okay. Nooow we’re all picturing it.
ross
									
And, yeah, the wings are not like the golden wings on a snitch, in quidditch, but rather these angelic wings that are also—I don’t know, maybe made of ice? [Carrie affirms.] There’s a lot going on here.
carrie
									
There’s a looot. There’s so much.
ross
									
This bottle—this bottle’s—
carrie
									
It’s almost Dr. Bronner’s level.
ross
									
It’s a piece of work. [Carrie chuckles.] A real piece of work. Wow! Okay.
carrie
									
So, I am glad you didn’t drink all of it, ‘cause I’ve been saving a little bit, because I’m gonna put it in the tincture. [Ross affirms in delighted surprise.] Where we currently have—yeah, Amma’s holy water, the Rythmia Ayahuasca tincture that’s as strong or stronger than the real thing.
ross
									
I guess I should have gotten some of the CBD tincture, just to add to it.
carrie
									
Uuh, oh yeah! Well.
crosstalk
									
Carrie: I have something else I’m gonna add. Ross: We could make… this real unholy mixture. Okay, what do you got?
carrie
									
So, this is Ormus.
ross
									
[In a deep voice.] Ormus.
carrie
									
And you might be asking, “What’s Ormus?” Well—
ross
									
Ormus is a character from Diablo 2. [Deeply.] “Ormus says—"
carrie
									
Oh, is it? Well it’s also—it’s also a product of alchemy. Which is the ancient chemistry that transmutes something base into something fine, through an esoteric, energetic process. Now, Ormus is invented by this man, who was there at the Expo.
ross
									
Okay, so Carrie has flipped around her laptop and I am seeing a white man in his 70s. Thick, white eyebrows. He’s got a saffron robe and some kind of green multi-layered necklace. Actually, there’s a whole bunch of necklaces going on. And what is that? A red beanie kind of cap?
carrie
									
Yeeeah. Something—or maybe a turban. [Ross affirms.] His head’s cocked back so it’s kind of hard to tell. So, he was there. But he was kind of sitting off by himself and his people were handing these out. And I got this for free. Can you believe? So, she gave me—
ross
									
You’re getting a lot of hand outs, here!
carrie
									
I knooow, I know! His assistant—she asked me if I wanted to try it and I said, “Yes, absolutely.” And she gave me a little sample which I put on my tongue and then she said, “Oh, also, rub it into your hands.” That that was really effective. [Ross affirms.] And I said, “And what is it? What does it do?” [They chuckle.] And she—
ross
									
I bet all of them were just taken aback. “No one ever asks!”
carrie
									
Right! She’s like, “Well, it’s, um… it’s like a… um. Yeeeah. Oh god, how do you even describe what Ormus is?”
ross
									
You have one job. You’re—you are womaning a booth at a conference. You should know how to describe your product and what it does. [Carrie agrees.] Are these—are these orbitaly rearranged monatomic elements?
carrie
									
Since you’re looking at your computer, I’m gonna say yes?
ross
									
Are they m-state materials?
carrie
									
What the fuck is that? Is that on there?
ross
									
A fictitious of substances exhibiting many miraculous properties such as healing powers?
carrie
									
[Laughing.] Wait a minute.
ross
									
And superconductivity at room temperature?
carrie
									
I heard the word “fictitious” in there. That doesn’t sound—
ross
									
Yeah, I’m reading the Rational Wiki of Ormus.
carrie
									
Aaah, I see. Well, so if you go to their website—which is anualchemy—A-N-U alchemy dot com. [Ross affirms.] It explains what Ormus can do. So, it assists in activating the light body.
ross
									
We’re just assuming a light body, but okay. Yes.
carrie
									
It helps promote mental clarity. It helps improve focus and concentration. It balances both hemispheres of the left and right brain. [Ross affirms.] It increases alpha waves. It increases clairvoyance! [Ross hums doubtfully.] Assists in deep sleep, clears up skin issues. Tightens skin. Restores hair color. Increases memory. Amplifies the effect of herbal, homeopathic, and gemstone supplements. Enhances your lifeforce energy.
ross
									
I think we just met the quota of a cure-all.
carrie
									
Increases awareness and greater alertness, and gives you sparkling eyes!
ross
									
And if it cures everything…
crosstalk
									
Ross and Carrie: It cures nothing. Ross: Wooow. Carrie: I’m Sydnee McElroy. So— Ross: I’m Justin McElroy.
carrie
									
[Laughs.] This is very good and important stuff, and the inventor was there, and this woman was telling me, like, it’s a great honor that he’s here! You know? [Ross affirms.] I mean, he is one of the greatest inventors of the modern era!
ross
									
Of this product. Oh, okay.
carrie
									
And he—[laughs.] And here he is! [Ross chuckles.] So, I said, “Well, what has it done for you?”
ross
									
What’s his name again? Mike?
carrie
									
His— [They both break into laughter.] Let’s see. Meet the alchemist… okay, his name is Swaha Ron. S-W-A-H-A. And then the name Ron.
ross
									
[Laughs.] Swaha Ron. [Carrie confirms.] Okay. I’m not sure if that’s the same thing I’m reading about, then. I don’t know, this might be a different thing on the Rational Wiki.
carrie
									
Oh, yeah. Because I think Ormus is also just sort of a catch-all term for, like, holy liquid.
ross
									
Looks like it has roots in alchemy. Okay.
carrie
									
Yeah. Well. That makes sense. [Ross affirms.] It all started when he had a heartfelt desire to discover and learn healing to restore the health of his life partner, Linda—who then lived 29 years longer than the doctors at the UCLA liver transplant unit had said was possible.
ross
									
That means she is now deceased?
carrie
									
Probably.
ross
									
There was a number on that.
carrie
									
Yeah—oh. Good point. Sounds like, maybe, she should thank the doctors at the UCLA liver transplant unit. [Ross agrees.] But anyway…
ross
									
Maybe not a coincidence.
carrie
									
So, I asked the woman who gave me this—well—
ross
									
Yeah, Carrie’s holding a very small, white bottle. A tiny, tiny—like, maybe a centimeter tall and a centimeter wide.
carrie
									
Yeah, this has maybe got one ounce in it.
ross
									
Yeah, and then there’s kind of a gold layer on top of that bottom white layer. And then one of those little tiny squeeze-dropper tops. [Carrie agrees.] That lets you get, you know, just a single drop.
carrie
									
You want some?
ross
									
Oh! Wow.
carrie
									
I don’t know what’s in this.
ross
									
It’s white. It’s milky. This is kind of like our CBD oil that we had at the Source family thing. [Carrie agrees.] Okay. Wh-what am I doing? I’m just putting this on my tongue?
carrie
									
Yeah, or your hands.
ross
									
Sublingual. Oh, okay.
carrie
									
He chose tongue, folks. [Ross makes a thoughtful “hm” sound.] Um. So.
ross
									
[Disappointed.] Barely a flavor.
carrie
									
So, I asked her, “What has it done for you?” And she was like, “Oh my god, what hasn’t it done? Oh, my goodness.”
ross
									
So, I’m gonna live 29 years longer, now? [Carrie confirms.] Cool.
carrie
									
So, she said, “Well, you gotta talk to my son.” Okay. So. This woman’s probably in, like, her 40s. She has a teenage son who’s there doing this with her. And she’s like, [whispering] “You know what it does for him? It makes him a magnet… for baseballs.” [They burst into laughter.]
ross
									
That is not where I saw that sentence going. Like, oh weird that the mom is saying, like, [in a creepy voice] he’s a magnet for chicks—or something like that.
crosstalk
									
Carrie: [Amused.] Nope! Makes him— Ross: Or babes. Baseballs?!
carrie
									
A maaagnet! For baseballs. [Ross makes a sound of utter confusion.] So, I’m looking at her the way you’re looking at me.
ross
									
Though, to be fair, baseballs do have 108 stitches. And—
carrie
									
Is that so?
ross
									
And stitches get snitches.
carrie
									
Okay! Alright! Okay!
ross
									
So, I think we’ve figured this out.
carrie
									
We’ve certainly named some facts. [Laughs.]
ross
									
We’ve certainly made come callbacks to earlier in this episode. Yeah, yeah. Okay. What’s the relevance? What’s going on?
carrie
									
So, he plays baseball. [Ross affirms before wheezing into a laugh.] And when he is out there—[laughs.]
ross
									
I had this sudden mental image of him being, like, shortstop or the outfield and, like, every ball that gets hit, like, just pegs him. He’s getting constantly injured.
carrie
									
I know! I’m thinking, like, this—it’s not good! [They laugh.] Okay. So.
ross
									
Alright. Now give me the actual explanation.
carrie
									
[Whispering.] “So, he’s out there and he’s centerfield and they hit a ball. [Makes a tongue clicking noise to represent the ball against the bat.] To him. And he just catches it!” And I’m thinking, “Okay. Maybe… your son’s good at [laughing] baseball? What if the explanation is… your son’s good at baseball?”
ross
									
Just like the doctors at UCLA are good at helping people. [They both hum in agreement several times.] Some things don’t need an explanation. [Carrie agrees.] The pyramids—“Oh boy, people a long time ago, they couldn’t build something and use math!”
carrie
									
Yeah, or like—an example I’m just making up—maybe, like, your guru dies in a hang-gliding accident.
ross
									
Oh right, he couldn’t just die from falling out of the sky!
carrie
									
Right! He had to have a mahāsamādhi. So—
ross
									
I’m just gonna say, since you mentioned that, I used to have a t-shirt of Jesus hang-gliding. [Carrie affirms with a laugh.] And it said—it said, “What wouldn’t Jesus do?” And then I realized after that interview that A)—
carrie
									
With Isis?
ross
									
—I’m not sure what happened to that shirt and I miss it. [Carrie agrees.] But, also, be—that would be a very inappropriate shirt to have worn…
carrie
									
Woah, you don’t know…
ross
									
To a Source family gathering.
carrie
									
What happened? So, it’s cause of disappearance is unknown? [Ross agrees.] Oh my god.
crosstalk
									
Ross: Yeah, send that to your coroner. Carrie: That’s very meaningful. Um, anyway—so— Ross: Yes. Ormus. Carrie: This poor kid— Ross: It attracts baseballs.
carrie
									
Yeah, it’s what—so, I said to her—
ross
									
Now, if I had just had a drop of that and then I got suddenly pegged by a baseball, I’d be a believer.
carrie
									
Yeah. Totally. I said something like, “Well, we should just bring a baseball tomorrow and, like, see if it rolls toward him!” [Laughs.] And she’s like, “Ooh, I don’t think it’d work quite like that.” And I said, “Well, have you tried not giving it to him for a couple of his games? And see if they don’t come?” [Ross agrees.] And she was like, “Well, it’s more long-term than that.” [Ross laughs.] She said, “Yeah. It’s more long-term than that. It’s kind of—"
ross
									
A cumulative effect.
carrie
									
No, she says, “It’s kind of like a permanent thing.” And I said, “Oh! Okay! So, I don’t need to buy any, ‘cause I just had some!” [Ross affirms.] “And it’s permanent!” And she said, “Well, nooo. It’s—"
ross
									
‘Cause that doesn’t involve me getting money out of it.
carrie
									
Right. It’s not that. [Ross giggles.] But I said—I said, “Well! You know, I’m a pretty scientifically minded person. So, I’ll tell you what. I’m here tomorrow, too. So, if I feel anything, I’ll—uh, I’ll come back.” And she’s like, “I love that! Take some samples.” And she gave me two of these little bottles.
ross
									
Oh boy, that’s enough for a lifetime of baseballs.
carrie
									
Yeah. [Laughs.] So, I’m gonna put it—I’m gonna also put this in the tincture. [Ross agrees.] And, so that—
ross
									
Oh, that’s gonna make it cloudy and… you know.
carrie
									
A little. I’m only gonna put a couple drops, ‘cause that’ll just make it stronger.
ross
									
‘Cause, yeah, it is—it is that white, cloudy texture.
carrie
									
And I’m gonna try to fill that tincture up with as much holy stuff as I possibly can. [Ross agrees.] Yeah.
ross
									
Yeah, hey. Well, we’re well on our way. Oh, and you’re gonna put a little bit of the basic water in there, too? [Carrie agrees.] Okay, cool. Alright! Amazing.
carrie
									
And we didn’t even get to any of the talks we went to, but… that was our first 45 minutes at this Expo.
ross
									
Oh, I’ve got another important vendor to tell you about. But, yeah, we’ve been talking about quite a bit here. So, yeah. I guess we’ll just keep telling you the tales from this Expo. And I feel like we just scratched the surface of it. Even still with all the talks we attended. But oooh my goodness, are there some good things left to share.
carrie
									
There’s [makes kissing noises].
ross
									
Mm, a chef’s kiss!
carrie
									
Think of this as, like, 40 investigations. ‘Cause there were so many things there.
ross
									
Yes. Oh wow. Yeah, like—I can’t wait to tell you about this vendor I met and his free energy device. It just needs a little more work and a little more funding.
carrie
									
[Laughs.] I can’t wait. There’s so many things I’ve been wanting to tell you but haven’t been able to because we do this shooow!
ross
									
Somebody—it does—occasionally it halts our normal conversations with each other, ‘cause we’ll be like, [excited] “Oh my goodness! I just heard this and I gotta tell you—” [Both of them make abrupt, cut-off, trying not to speak noises.] Wait!
carrie
									
[Pained.] Save it for the microphone!
ross
									
[Straining.] Wanna get—wanna get that first reaction! So, uh. But first, before we leave, we wanna leave you with…
crosstalk
									
Ross and Carrie: [Cheering.] A Jumbotron!
carrie
									
Who’s this message for? It’s for Ryan Patton.
ross
									
And who’s this message from? It’s from Tom Qualls.
carrie
									
And what does Tom say?
crosstalk
									
Ross and Carrie: [Falling in and out of sync.] He says, “Happy 3rd anniversary, Ryan. Time has flown by and I love you.” Ross: Aww. Carrie: Yeah. Aww. Ross: Tempus fugit.
carrie
									
What’s that mean?
ross
									
Time flies. [Carrie makes a sound of understanding.] I don’t know how to say, “I love you” in Latin.
carrie
									
Write! Us! An email! Tell us how to say, “I love you” in Latin.
ross
									
Too late. I can also use Google. “Te amo!” Interesting! [Carrie makes a sound of surprise.] Yeah! Just, like, in Spanish!
carrie
									
Italian or Spanish.
ross
									
Its daughter languages. Yeah. Spanish.
carrie
									
You learn something new every day. [Ross agrees.] Well, that’s it for our show!
ross
									
Our theme music is by Brian Keith Dalton!
carrie
									
And our administrative manager is Ian Krrrrr—
crosstalk
									
Ross and Carrie: Rrrrramer!
ross
									
You can support this show by telling a friend, by leaving a positive review, supporting us at MaximumFun.org/donate. [Carrie hums in agreement.] All of these are ways to make this show continue and be possible. Yeah, get the word out there! Tell your friends!
carrie
									
Mm-hm! Think good thoughts! But then turn them into action.
ross
									
And then wait for our MaxFunDrive coming up. ‘Cause, uh—
carrie
									
Oh yeah! That’s gonna be—
ross
									
[Mumbling.] It’s gonna be a good one.
carrie
									
Primo. You can also follow us on social media. You heard of it? [Ross agrees.] Go to Twitter.com/ohnopodcast.
ross
									
Or Facebook.com/onrac.
crosstalk
									
Ross and Carrie: O-N-R-A-C.
ross
									
You can follow both of us on Instagram, or the hashtag #ONRAC.
carrie
									
Or invent a new social media, make us join it, make us say more things at the end of the episode. Everyone will hate you.
ross
									
Use a word that everyone knows but take out the vowels. There you go.
carrie
									
[Laughing.] There you go! And remember:
clip
									
Music: Soothing music plays. Ron Holman: I’m Dr. Ron Holman. My friends call me Swaha Ron. [Music ends.] Ron: As time went along, sitting in this energy, information started arriving. A voice or a download. Sometimes the herbs would just arrive in my office. Or higher life force energy water, from Boganathar, for another formula of addiction and abuse. Medicines that just manifest by themselves or out of the blue happen sometimes. I can’t tell you how it happens. I can’t tell you when it’s gonna happen. I can recognize it when it arrives, because it just feels out of place in relation to the spot that I find it in. Like it wasn’t there yesterday. [Beat.] So, when I’m—you know, in my office or in the laboratory and, you know, I see something that isn’t labeled—I always label everything. I’m sort of obsessive compulsive about labeling stuff and putting dates on it and stuff. And so, when I find a bottle of a liquid or a baggie with some herbs in it or some ash in it that isn’t labeled, I immediately go, “Aha! Alright. Where did you come from? And what’s your name? And what are you here for? And how are we supposed to work with you?” And—like that. I just talk to it. Which, of course, we know everything’s energy. So, you can talk to trees. You can talk to gemstones, that I’ve been talking to since ’99. And everything has a voice. Has—has an energy. And in that energy, if you can attune your frequency, there’s a voice in that energy. You can interact with it. Music: Calming music resumes.
music
									
“Oh No, Ross and Carrie! Theme Song” by Brian Keith Dalton. A jaunty, upbeat instrumental. [Music ends.]
promo
									
Music: Relaxing ukulele music. Manolo Moreno: Hey, you've reached Dr. Gameshow. Leave your message after the beep. [Music stops.] [Beep!] Sara: Hi. This is Sara, and I'd like to tell you about Dr. Gameshow. Dr. Gameshow is a band of geniuses, or nerds, or brilliant artists, or kids, or some combination of all of those who get together to make a show like no other that's family-friendly. It's an interactive call-in gameshow podcast. When I found Dr. Gameshow, I found joy. I told my friends and family that if they weren't listening, they were wasting joy. I sent them the episodes that made me laugh until I cried, played it for them in the car. They laugh, too! Laugh their butts off. But they still don't listen on their own, so they're wasting joy. And I keep looking for someone to understand me. Maybe it's you! Give Dr. Gameshow a listen and find joy. [Beep!] [Music resumes.] Jo Firestone: Listen to Dr. Gameshow on Maximum Fun. New episodes every other Wednesday. [Music fades out.]
promo
									
Music: Classical orchestral music. John Hodgman: Hey, everyone! It's I, John Hodgman of the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Elliott Kalan: And I, Elliott Kalan of the Flop House podcast. John: And we've made a whole new podcast! A 12-episode special miniseries called I, Podius. In which we recap, discuss, and explore the very famous 1976 BBC miniseries about Ancient Rome called I, Claudius! We've got incredible guests such as Gillian Jacobs, Paul F. Tompkins, as well as star of I, Claudius Sir Patrick Stewart! And his son! Non-Sir Daniel Stewart. Elliott: Don't worry, Dan, you'll get there someday. John: I, Podius is the name of the show! Every week from MaximumFun.org for only 12 weeks. Get 'em at MaximumFun.org, or wherever you get your podcasts. [Music fades out.]
speaker 1
									
MaximumFun.org
speaker 2
									
Comedy and culture.
speaker 3
									
Artist owned—
speaker 4
									
—audience supported.
About the show

Welcome to Oh No, Ross and Carrie!, the show where we don’t just report on fringe science, spirituality, and claims of the paranormal, but take part ourselves. Follow us as we join religions, undergo alternative treatments, seek out the paranormal, and always find the humor in life’s biggest mysteries. We show up – so you don’t have to. Every week we share a new investigation, interview, or update.
Follow @ohnopodcast on Twitter and join the Facebook group!