TRANSCRIPT Oh No, Ross and Carrie!: Carrie Meets Shakuntali Siberia: Unfalsifiability Edition

music

“Oh No, Ross and Carrie! Theme Song” by Brian Keith Dalton. A jaunty, upbeat instrumental.

carrie poppy

Hello, welcome to Oh, No, Ross and Carrie, the show where we don’t just report on fringe science, spirituality, and claims of the paranormal, but take part ourselves. When they make the claims, we show up so you don’t have to. I’m Carrie Poppy. Ross isn’t here today. You are about to hear my interview with the spiritual leader Shakuntali Siberia. So you might remember Ross and I talking about Shakuntali during our Conscious Life Expo coverage, when we briefly encountered her followers there. So today you get to hear me talk to this woman who identifies herself as a Siberian shaman priestess. And who says that she can cure virtually any disease. And that includes AIDS, that includes COVID-19, that includes cancer. Some of her latest videos are, “Dissolve Coronavirus fast! Guided Meditation” and “The TRUTH behind Coronavirus and the World!” She exclusively ministers to women, and she’ll explain why during this interview. So, if you got here because you’re a follower of Shakuntali’s, I’m so glad you’re here. And I’d ask you to make a commitment right now to get through this entire interview, however difficult that might be. I think a good leader will let you come to your own conclusions, even about their own teachings. So if—if Shakuntali has taught you to be a kinder person, a more thoughtful person, a better thinker, prove that to yourself. Stick with this interview. For everybody else, I might be introducing you to someone who’s new, who’s interesting, and who just teaches you something new about the human mind. So, before we begin, a few scene-setting notes will be helpful here. So, it took an incredibly long time to set this interview up. This was actually our sixth attempt at speaking. And I would always hear from her through her sort-of assistant, whom I’m going to call, “Alice.” So, Alice is a young person. She’s probably in her early twenties. And she would text me. She was really eager to have Shakuntali on the show with us.

So just as COVID-19 was spreading, and the self-isolation was ramping up, Alice invited me to Shakuntali’s nearby event. And it was called, “The Spiritual Ritual of Energy Protection.” So, she was going to have an unlimited number of women come, and—in Shakuntali’s words—“Gather in nature to do rituals, to re-write your matrix of health and protection.” Just to remind you, this was just as people were getting very concerned about the coronavirus. So the event was $60. For an extra hundred, you could get a second ritual and something called a “power object.” So—[chuckles]—I was really tempted to do this, but I ultimately decided not to be a potential vector of this very deadly virus. Even if that meant that we didn’t get to record on something that needs reporting on. I’m not a big believer in no-platforming, but I am a big believer in, if you’re going to give something attention, you better be giving it a critical eye as well. So, because these conversations were cancelled and reset so many times, I was only able to finally get this interview recorded with almost no notice. And that’s why Ross isn’t here, unfortunately. But maybe that’s fine, because his male energy would have mucked everything up. Shakuntali only talks to dames, anyway, So, if you listened to my last interview with a faith healer, she also—that was—her name was Kimberly Meredith. And she also claimed she could cure coronavirus. So, you’ll know, then, that people who claim to heal with—with faith can run the gamut from self-deceived to intentional liar to really anything in-between. And, theoretically, they could also be right. So, in this case, I can’t say for sure what’s going on, but I can say this. Shakuntali is not a lone wolf. She has a whole ministry, a whole following, mostly of young women who seemingly have devoted most of their time and energy to furthering Shakuntali’s profile. She’s not one healer with a website and a local business. She is a spiritual leader with a growing following. And, as they say, with great power comes great responsibility. So, the story of Shakuntali’s ministry is so dense with detail. I couldn’t possibly cover it all during this conversation. So, for example, she claims that her biological age stopped when she was 19. She turns 49 this year. She says she will be able to control the moment of her own death. And according to a book by one of her followers, she has been accused of running a sex cult. And, amazingly, we were barely able to touch on these topics. Some we didn’t get to at all. It was so tempting to stop her at every turn and dig deeper. It was like walking through the freaking garden of Eden, just endlessly fertile ground and you're deciding where to plough.

carrie

So, ultimately, I felt that the most important thing to talk to Shakuntali about was her claims of healing. So, she claims to be able to cure virtually any human disease. And so there are two possibilities here. Possibility one is that she’s right. She is the first person in recorded history to have this ability. This is, then, the most important person in the world. And we should all be paying attention to her. And we got her on this show! This is amazing! Or, possibility two, she’s—she’s wrong, and she’s deadly wrong. So that would mean people with debilitating and deadly diseases are spending crucial post-diagnosis time going to a healer who cannot heal them. And since many of these diseases are aggressive and progressive, a false cure is worse than no cure. Because it takes this critical time period when you can most effectively act and erases it from your life. So if she is wrong, or lying, or some combination of both, then I believe she is dangerous. And, as far as I can tell, there is no possibility three. So, here it is, my interview safely over the phone with spiritual leader Shakuntali Siberia.

carrie

I’m very excited to welcome our guest, Shakuntali. She is an international women’s coach, lecturer, and creator of the unique method of working with the subconscious called the, “Gyud.” She’s a personal coach of Hollywood movie stars, including Beyoncé and Kylie Minogue. She holds a doctorate in psychology. She possesses clairvoyance and she has developed a method for making your child a genius. She even says she knows the real cause of the coronavirus outbreak, and she has held multiple public gatherings to heal fear and destroy that virus with love. And above all, she says she’s an enlightened woman who wants to awaken the inner power of the American woman. So please welcome Shakuntali.

shakuntali siberia

Hello. Namaste, beautiful souls.

carrie

[Chuckles briefly] Namaste. How are you this evening?

shakuntali

I’m amazing every day, because I am always working with the people and help them. Five minutes ago I was providing them my Facebook live for supporting people during coronavirus times.

carrie

Mmm. Do you have any followers who have the coronavirus?

shakuntali

Um, in reality, I am—a lot of people, yes. They write me about their people—family members, uh…and they ask how to live in this time. How to get—heal this disease.

carrie

Wow, okay. I want to hear more about that, but before we do, let’s hear a little bit about you. You have such an unusual name, Shakuntali Siberia. Is that your—your given name?

shakuntali

This is my spiritual name, what I received from my—my master shaman when I did a very spiritual efforts in my life. I received this name. What the meaning is, “the birth of the freedom.” And every time when people meet me, yes, they can feel, uh, freedom, real freedom.

carrie

Mmm. So, your driver’s license, then, doesn’t say, “Shakuntali Siberia?”

shakuntali

[Laughing] No. No, this is spiritual name, yes. This is like a soul name, not my body name. [Chuckles] But this is something what person can receive when it start to follow the spiritual way.

carrie

Okay. Uh, what is your, uh, body name. Are you willing to say?

shakuntali

[Laughing] I don’t remember!

carrie

You don’t remember?!

shakuntali

Well, this is joke, yes. But because every day, I don’t—I don’t hear this name. Only Shakuntali. And because of that1, I don’t recognize it.

carrie

[Laughs briefly] But you surely remember it.

shakuntali

Mm—of course.

carrie

[Chuckles briefly] You don’t want to say, though?

shakuntali

Yes.

carrie

Oh—

shakuntali

I am Shakuntali, yes.

carrie

Okay.

shakuntali

When you say the name, yes, you—you’re image appear, yes?

carrie

Mmm.

shakuntali

And the image of the past. Not—not the reason to remember that.

carrie

Oh, okay. Fair enough. So you grew up in Russia, is that right?

shakuntali

Yes, I—I was born—I was born Russian, and I was educated by, uh…usual, normal parents, yes? [Carrie makes an affirming sound.] [Chuckling] But my destiny was not so usual.

carrie

[Chuckles] Yeah, so you did go through a pretty standard education, though. You got a—a doctorate in psychology, right?

shakuntali

Yes, I—I received it—only it was a very interesting, un, interesting story. Because this education give me the doctors, not because of education but because of the special scientistic practices. What I helped to make a doctors that their method—healing methods, medicine—working more better than they do it.

carrie

Oh, interesting. And where was that?

shakuntali

Yes, it was in Siberia, yes. It was in Siberia. It was the moments when the people—uh, there was a very deep disease, like a psoriasis.

carrie

Oh, yes! Mm-hmm.

shakuntali

The doctors cannot find this special medicine, how to—in the very fast way to—to, um…heal this—this…disease. And I’m—in that time, I started youth session—youth methods. Yes, working with subconsciniousness. And I helped—I was helping doctors to work—to work with them. They helped by medicine. I help with the working with subconsciniousness. And both—we—the—when we were both—all these people receive healing, like, only in two weeks.

carrie

Wow. And—

shakuntali

Yes.

carrie

Okay. And so then they gave you a doctorate for that?

shakuntali

Yes.

carrie

Wow. What university was this?

shakuntali

Yes, it was a Siberian university in the Barnaul town.

carrie

Okay. I’ve been watching your stuff for a while. And I remember you mentioning Altai State University. Was that there?

shakuntali

Yes, this is the same.

carrie

Ah, okay, okay.

shakuntali

Mm-hmm.

carrie

Gosh, that’s amazing. So few spiritual healers are actually willing to be tested scientifically. What made you want to be tested?

shakuntali

About this story, when scientists hunting me and always want to—to…to, like, discover my body. Yes? You speak about that?

carrie

[Curious and unsure] Okay?

shakuntali

Yes, they always, uh—I don’t know how I can hide from them. Because they always—they know about my ability that my biological age is stopped, yes. And, uh…one day its was very…a long time ago—I’m…I’m say, “Okay, yes. Let’s show people. Let’s show. Let’s do it [chuckles].”

carrie

Hmm.

shakuntali

[Carrie makes a few quiet,  interested sounds as Shakuntali speaks.] Yes. Yes, I don’t like, in reality, this researchers. But—[makes a slightly repulsed sound]—but I did this. And they—I have a video in my YouTube channel, yes, about that. That they study my blood and they, um, see the blood working so fast, meta—metabolism system, that I live without any diseases. My body can—cannot be heal—sick. Because of metabolism very high level. Very, very…very quick, everything happening in my body. And because of that, it’s not—cannot—don’t have ageing.

carrie

[Thoughtful] Okay.

shakuntali

Yes, because of the practices and—all—every—what I’m doing with the people, yes. I teach them how to live like that.

carrie

Okay, so it sounds like it has to do with your blood. Your blood is circulating quickly?

shakuntali

Yes. [Chuckles] Doctors say.

carrie

I ask because usually, your blood moving quickly is not thought of as a good thing, right? We think of that as high blood pressure, which tends to be unhealthy. Why do you think that benefits you?

shakuntali

Yes, but—but high blood pression, yes, it means that the person very active.

carrie

Ah.

shakuntali

So, yes, its good. It’s good. But because when—when our blood pressure is low, it means the person is very, like, cannot move. Very—can be very lazy, without any energy to move. And in that way, this is very good to have a high-level blood pressure.

carrie

Yeah, but even if you’ve just been sitting there, still your blood pressure is pretty high, huh?

shakuntali

[Chuckles] Yes, it is.

carrie

[Amused] Hm.

shakuntali

And because of that, I can sleep only three hours.

carrie

Oh, wow.

shakuntali

Yes, I sleep only three hours, sometimes two. Yes. And I feel always like I never tired.

carrie

Wow, amazing. When did you know, growing up, that you were kind of different from everyone else, and you had these abilities?

shakuntali

I felt it in my childhood when I was, I think, five, six years old. Yes, when I speak. Yes, when I started to speak. Some friends from my mother came into the house, and I’m always say them, “Oh, you have some beetles in the—in your stomach. Yes, you need to go to the doctor.”

carrie

Mm.

shakuntali

Of course, my mother say that I’m crazy. [Carrie chuckles.] Friends don’t listen me, yes. But after that, when this really—uh, this friends have a very deep, deep diseases. And when they go to the doctors and they really was—for example, there was the cancer of the kidneys or the stomach and I saw the diseases like different larvaes, you know, the dark forces. Some beetles, some spiders. And when I start to see and I understood it as—I see the subtle world. And for me, it was normal. But for my parents, no. And they put me in the psychiatric clinic.

carrie

Okay.

shakuntali

In my school, I always helped my friends—so classmates, yes—to pass exams, because I saw through the books [chuckles]. I saw the correct answers.

carrie

Oh [laughs pointedly].

shakuntali

For me to make exam, it was so easy. I see what happening inside of the person, what he feel, what is his thoughts, yes. And this is abilities start to develop. And of course everyone think that I am crazy, but in 12 years, when I met my master, yes, I start to develop consciniously. Yes, I go out from the society. In seven years, I was educated by shamans, priestesses in the forests, in the very deep wild places where is no one people. No, nothing. No society.

carrie

[Interested] Hmm.

shakuntali

Because of no influences, I am growing in my spiritual way very fast. And because of that, I am this Shakuntali, yes, who can help a million people and never tired.

carrie

[Laughs briefly, pointedly] So, okay. So you were living with the shaman in the forest from when you were 12 until you were 19?

shakuntali

Yes.

carrie

Oh, my goodness. I—I can’t even imagine that. How did you…how did you eat?

shakuntali

[Chuckles] It was the special, yes…the food, what is growing in the forest. Everything exists in the forest. We can—in reality, we can live there.

carrie

Okay. And so you must have escaped from the mental hospital.

shakuntali

Yes.

carrie

I mean, were the police and your family looking for you?

shakuntali

Mm, yes of—of course [laughs]. Yes, of course. Because they…cannot understand that it’s possible that that, uh, person, yes, can have this abilities.

carrie

[Enthusiastically] Yeah.

shakuntali

In reality, a lot of children have this abilities. I—they—why—what is the difference between me and others, yes? Because I am never listen others. And I take my mission, my predestination, and I start to develop this. I follow my mission.

carrie

Mm.

shakuntali

Is broken world, because every—a lot of the children have this abilities. A lot of [inaudible] child warn in our planet.

carrie

Right.

shakuntali

Everyone around, surrounding, don’t support them. And they think that they are crazy. And they start to live like a usual life. Go to work in office, yes. Do this—the main things and nothing else. [Carrie makes an interested sound.] And they don’t develop their abilities. And because of that have a lot of diseases. Because when we don’t, um, don’t use our potential, yes, this is energy becoming like dark energy, energy of diseases.

carrie

Ah, right. Okay. Um, okay, so skipping ahead a little, you said you worked with psychiatric patients in various hospitals around the world for over 20 years. So, when was that?

shakuntali

Yeah, so I’m always, when I’m travelling—when I’m travelling, I always help people in the very different ways, yes?

carrie

Mm-hmm.

shakuntali

Organized retreats for the women, yes. I work in individual ways. I do the charity actions. I—I give the food people and different things, yes, because everything what I earn, yes, I give others, because I don’t need nothing re—in reality. And of course I’m going in some—some places where I working with the doctors who understand that. Not medicine heal people. But something else. Real medicine is love. And this is what we need in this life.

carrie

Mm. So then do you think that psychiatric drugs, they don’t work?

shakuntali

They work for some—some—a little time, yes. That the people can feel, maybe some normal state. But in reality, they don’t help people.

carrie

Mm.

shakuntali

Make them more—more crazy,.

carrie

What about, uh, psychosis that’s brought on by, like, drug use? You know, we know that methamphetamine, for example, makes people experience psychosis.

shakuntali

Yes, um…in reality, this is very dangerous, yes? Because um…we don’t know in which subtle world person will come, using these drugs. And person can stay always in this subtle work—world with darkness and never come out. And, um, yes. All this happening because people don’t know their miss—they don’t know their purpose of life.

carrie

Mm.

shakuntali

Every—and this coronavirus and all diseases happening because we don’t follow our purpose. We don’t know that. We don’t know this map of our soul.

carrie

Right, okay, yes. So you’re kind of getting to the main heart of your teaching, which seems to be—and tell me if I’m wrong—we all have a purpose. Some us don’t know what that purpose is. And the different emotions in our bodies create different physical diseases. Is that right?

shakuntali

Yes, yes.

carrie

Okay. [Chuckles slightly] Great, I got it. [Carrie and Shakuntali laugh.] Um—

shakuntali

Yes.

carrie

So, then, does every disease have a specific cause that’s the same from person to person?

shakuntali

Um…no. Every person have a special, um…individual purpose, yes, of this…of this disease. Sometimes diseases are more deepest, and they coming from their past lives or from the lineage.

carrie

Oh, interesting.

shakuntali

You can have a disease, and this is not yours. Disease from your mother, or some grandmother.

carrie

Oh, I see. I—or maybe from your own past life.

shakuntali

Or—your—yes. Or our own past life. And because of that, they are very different—[stutters]—very different kind of diseases. And with every—and every disease have a special reason and the time when it happening.

carrie

Interesting. Okay, I’m gonna come back to the disease part. But since you mentioned reincarnation—now, you’re the reincarnation of a—a princess who lived in the fifth century, BC, correct?

shakuntali

Ukok princess.

carrie

Yeah. So, that’s not a story I was familiar with here in the US. Can you tell us about her?

shakuntali

Oh, this is the princess who was, uh, living in Siberia, and she wanted to create a very spiritual world. Uh, she die in…uh, her body was in the very special place where only shamans knew this place. And, um, one day, the scientist and the people, like, from society, yes, they wanted to, like, take this body and put it in the museum to do their business. And, um, when it’s happening, uh, in this place—in the first time was the—a lot of disasters, earthquake. [Carrie makes an affirming sound.] And a lot of the disasters. And this is how spirit was very not happy, yes, for that.

carrie

Oh. Okay, and so you were—you were her?

shakuntali

When some soul of some wise people can reincarnate in some body. It’s happening when the person have a very spiritual way, yes. And this soul who wants to say something to the people, yes—for example, some—some wise person, some saint person, yes, who already die? This soul can reincarnate in the alive person.

carrie

Right. So do you remember that lifetime, when you were the Ukok princess?

shakuntali

I'm only remember, uh, when it ha—because this enlightenment I received around one year ago. Yes, but um…yes, when it happens with me, this enlightenment, I remember this—this life. And what is this feeling when you feel that you are responsible for all planet.

carrie

Wow. Okay, but now you do remember her life?

shakuntali

Yes, I—I—if—if I will tune, if I will decide to spend my energy to do this, I will do this—

carrie

Oh, okay.

shakuntali

—but now I need to save my energy to heal people.

carrie

Ah, okay, I see. I see. Well, speaking of your energy and your powers, you also have clairvoyance. What does that look like for you? Does that mean you can predict things, or, uh, can you hear people’s thoughts or…what does that look like?

shakuntali

Yes, this is ability what I save this energy. I don’t—you know, sometimes—[chuckling]—people ask me, “Please, say me. What is—what is color of my clothes?”

carrie

[Chuckles] Sure!

shakuntali

Yes, they want to do a check, and I say, “Of course, I can say you. But in reality, in this energy what I will use to see your color, yes, I can heal some person from one disease. Yes, and I don't want to use this energy for this tricks.” But sometimes, yes, I show—I show super abilities to the people. Sometimes. For example, people can see me, how I’m walking on the glasses.

carrie

Mm. Mm-hmm.

shakuntali

[Carrie makes a few thoughtful sounds as Shakuntali speaks.] Broken glasses. And, um, do some, um, make some person very hard, like a tree. But clairvoyance, yes, this is one of ability what I use when I work with people. For example, person come to my session, yes, and I see—I [stutters] like op—put on the bottom of my clairvoyance and I start to see. Um, you know, what happening with organism. What happened in the past lives. How this past lives influenced this life, yes. How is influence lineage. And all this things, I—I see, like, in—in the global. And I give, like, a task for my clairvoyance, yes? What I want to see. And I can see. Of course I can see some thoughts, yes, if I want to.

carrie

[Chuckles pointedly] Okay.

shakuntali

Don’t use it. Don’t use it. I only use my abilities to help people, because this is energy. This is huge energy.

carrie

Oh, yeah, well that seems like a better thing to use it on. You also specifically want to empower women. What about women drew you to them as opposed to all of humanity?

shakuntali

This is the treasures of the god here, yes. And the women will save this world. Because, um…the government of our planet, a lot of man—men always want to have a war conflict. [Carrie and Shakuntali chuckle softly.] Compare with each other who is—is more powerful. But woman, yes, she’s the being who are the source of love. And she—everything wants to harmonize. And if the women have this power in our planet, in our planet will be like a paradise. Yes. Everyone wants—will want to love each other.

carrie

Uh, what do you make, then, of women who have killed?

shakuntali

Ah. Who have killed?

carrie

Yeah.

shakuntali

Mm-hmm.

carrie

Yeah, women who are murderers. What do you make of them?

shakuntali

I don't understand question.

carrie

Um, okay. So, some women have killed people, right?

shakuntali

Mm-hm. In the past, in the stor—history.

carrie

Yeah, or—or modern time.

shakuntali

This is n—um, this is—yes, of course. The woman can have, uh, woman body—

carrie

Uh-huh.

shakuntali

—but it doesn’t mean that she’s a woman. Because woman, this is energy. Yes, we see that a lot—everything is, like, destroyed. All our cosmical system rules, yes. For example men now looking like a woman, yes. They—a lot of them, um…a lot of the gays, a lot of the, uh, the wo—man don’t have man energy. Women looking like a man, yes. They wear trou—trousers, and they, um…don’t express like a women. And we need—I want to change this balance, yes. That men will be like a man. Women can be like a woman. And everyone can be in their role.

carrie

Mm. Okay, so if someone feels that…that they’re a man even though they are in—as you put it—a woman’s body, uh, what do you think they should do?1

shakuntali

They need to…work with theirselves. Work with subconsciniousness, and turn back their feminine power. Because, um…this—what we are now—this is like a result of our education. The special programs in their heads, yes, that they, uh, start to act like a man.

carrie

Uh, well, what if they’re happy that way, then what?

shakuntali

What?

carrie

What if they’re happy that way?

shakuntali

What’s the—

carrie

What if they’re happy that way?

shakuntali

So if this—think that they happy?

carrie

[Upbeat] Yeah.

shakuntali

[Laughs briefly] No, this is only, uh…it’s can only looking like they are happy. And always God will say—God will always show, uh, that we live not correct way. Because, uh, if the women have diseases, this is the first, like, the first symbol. Especially feminine diseases, like a womb, yes. This is them…mm, God show us that we don’t follow our feminine mission.

carrie

Mm. Okay. How do you know all this? Are you in communication with God?

shakuntali

[Sighs, then chuckles] Well then, this is a interesting questions. On the first, yes, I was learning this all my childhood. I was learning, uh, real feminine, cosmical laws all my childhood. With the priestess in the temples. And, um, who are not living in society, yes. I understand the cosmical laws. I understand how it’s need to be. This is not—I don’t know how—[laughs]—how I can explain this. Uh, I know the truth.

carrie

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And you can just sense it, in your core? You just know that you…you know that you know?

shakuntali

[Carrie makes a few affirming sounds as Shakuntali speaks.] Yes, this is like, um…you know that you…you can see the person, yes? Or maybe not see physically, yes? Or, I—I can think about person. And I—I know about this person, like everything. It’s looking like if you look—if you have a house, big house. And if you go in one room, you see only one room. Like, you see the walls, yes. You can see what is inside of this room. But if you fly like a bird, you can see all this house, like how many rooms is there. How many bathrooms is there. But I see everything like I’m flying like a bird, yes. And I see from the highest, um, level, what was in the past, yes, with whom this person communicate, what will be in the future. Yes, like in general. This is how it’s working.

carrie

Wow. I know you’re not looking at me, but can you see some of my past and future as we speak?

shakuntali

[Chuckles briefly] Hm, yes. I see, Carrie, that, um, the first time when I—when I was meet you in the subtle world, yes, not in the physical world [chuckles].

carrie

Ahh-ah-ah!

shakuntali

Yes, I know the people whom their destiny will—[chuckles briefly]—will connect. Yes, I see that, uh, in your lineage, uh…was very wise women. And I see in your lineage the witches.

carrie

Ah-ah-ah. Okay. Is that good or bad?

shakuntali

This is very good. This is the magic women, wise women who wanted the cosmical laws, yes, will be in this world. And they have a clairvoyance and all super abilities.

carrie

Oh, hell, yeah.

shakuntali

Yes, but people—like government, they don’t—didn’t want that this women, like, have a power.

carrie

Mm.

shakuntali

This in—inside of your line—and you have this abilities of them, super—of super abilities [chuckles briefly].

carrie

Oh, cool!

ross blocher

[In a soft, soothing tone] Hey, Carrie.

carrie

Who—a—what the fuck? What just happened?

ross

This is Ross.

carrie

[More quietly] Oh, Ross, hey. I was just in the middle of this phone call.

ross

We are one, Carrie.

carrie

[Chuckles] Well, I knew that. Did you have to show up just to tell me?

ross

[Resumes regular tone] Yeah, sorry. Sorry to startle you. I’m very much enjoying this interview. Thank you for doing it.

carrie

Surely.

ross

But I thought—

carrie

Can we have this chat later, or…

ross

Uh, I don’t know if Shakuntali can hold for a moment, but I was hoping maybe we could talk about websites

carrie

Okay. Well…that’s the one thing I am willing to drop everything to talk about.

ross

I—see, I knew you would want to. [Carrie laughs.] So, let’s say, Carrie—let’s say hypothetically—I’m just throwing this out there—

carrie

Mm-kay.

ross

Let's say you’re wanting to build a brand-new website, maybe for your new project. Maybe for some architecture you’re doing. Maybe you’re starting—

carrie

Mm-hmm.

ross

—a store, you want to sell things online. Or perhaps you have a wedding you’re planning—

carrie

Okay, I’m listening.

ross

—and you want people to know about it.

carrie

Or I’ve got a new record label, or I’m a food producer [chuckles], or I’m a regular producer. Or I'm a bar and pub, or I’m an agency.

ross

You might be a jewelry designer.

carrie

Exactly.

ross

How would you go about creating a website? I have an idea in my mind.

carrie

Okay, okay, w—

ross

What do—what do you think?

carrie

Okay. I have a favorite website-creating tool.

ross

Yeah.

carrie

So on the count of four, which of course is, “One, two, three, go—“

ross

Then we say it.

carrie

Yes. On the—

ross

Do we say go and then we do it, or do we just do, “One, two, three,” and then we say it?

carrie

“[Chuckles] One, two, three, beat.”

ross

Okay—

carrie

The one two three just sets the tempo, then on the fourth beat—

ross

Okay.

carrie

—we say the name of our favorite website-building platform.

ross

I. Am. Ready. Okay.

carrie

[Chuckling] Okay.

crosstalk

Ross and Carrie: One, two, three, Squarespace!

carrie

Oh, my God! I can’t believe it.

ross

[Laughs] Wow! Oh, that's amazing. Okay, well, I guess I don’t need to convince you, but I was going to tell you, you can use Squarespace to create beautiful templates—

carrie

Yeah.

ross

That are created by world-class designers.

carrie

I knew that.

ross

Okay.

carrie

They also have powerful e-commerce functionality.

ross

Oh, you knew that already?

carrie

Yeah.

ross

Okay, well-ell, well-ell—

carrie

Okay, alright…

ross

—Miss Smarty-pants, did you know that there’s also a new way to buy domains and choose from over 200 extensions?

carrie

Yeah, I did.

ross

Oh.

carrie

Eyyy, wise guy. Uh, yeah—

ross

Come on! [Carrie giggles.] Come on!

carrie

They also have 24-7 award-winning customer support. They have a great blog platform. If you want to start a blog, they’ll make it very easy on you.

ross

Yeah! And, uh, you can promote your physical or online business. You can announce an upcoming event or special project. So much you can do with a Squarespace site.

carrie

You could just make a site about how great Ella is. And I will visit it.

ross

It will be Carrie’s new favorite website, probably.

carrie

Probably be like where my browser goes for a homepage. So, check out squarespace.com/ohno for a free trial. And when you’re ready to launch, use the offer code, “Ohno” to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

ross

10%!

carrie

10%!

ross

Well, I'm glad we had this conversation, Carrie.

carrie

This was so nice.

ross

Yeah. Alright, well, uh, I want to know more about what happens with Shakuntali.

carrie

Okay, back to this.

carrie

Okay, so talking a little bit about your, uh, your healing, um, you’ve mentioned coronavirus many times, and that coronavirus in particular comes from the ego, right?

shakuntali

Mmm…yes and something more. Yes, um, like coronavirus, in reality it was, uh…this is the problem of all humanity. That God wants to say us that—that all hu—not like one person, but all humanity lost. Lost and they don't know their purpose in life. And because of that, they have very deep depression. And because of this deep depression, all people, uh…a lot of people have this disease.

carrie

Hmm.

shakuntali

Because everything would happen—what—what is connected with the langs?

carrie

Oh, lungs, uh-huh.

shakuntali

Lungs, yes. Uh, the person don’t have a purpose to live. People go to work, they have a families, but it’s only image. In their heart, in their soul, they’re the very big sadnesses. Because they waste time, and they don’t do something useful and something important.

carrie

Mm. Okay, well I’m thinking of the doctors and nurses who get coronavirus and die. It seems like they—they knew their life purpose, no?

shakuntali

Yes. Yes, yes. The—ev—the person who are affected with this coronavirus, this is the person—people who—who really…are in the very deep situation of their…purpose of life.

carrie

Oh. Okay, I thought you were saying coronavirus affects people who don’t know their purpose.

shakuntali

Yes.

carrie

Okay. So what about doctors who get coronavirus while treating their patients?

shakuntali

Yes. And I—and I say about the tr—or—about the doctors, yes. They—these doctors have this—inside of them—this feeling that they don’t want to live. They have a depression. They don’t know their life mission. They, of course they are affected. In reality, I was connected with the people with the—not only coronavirus, with very, very deep viruses. Yes, but I never affected. Because I don’t have this—and this is like a proof of that. I never affected. And I never wear mask or something like a doctor. No, I’m, like—I’m Shakuntali. Because I know how it works. This is—I know how it works. And because of that, I know what God wants to say us, how it’s happening.

carrie

What’s the most contagious virus you’ve worked with, then?

shakuntali

It was a, um…different—different viruses what is very sim—this is very similar like—like coronaviruses. But it was not, uh…it—it—the people who have diseases like leukemia and, um—um—and, uh, this is—a lot of different—or the—yes, uh, viruses like, um…heev—heev—no…

carrie

Oh, HIV?

shakuntali

Yes. Very, very different.

carrie

Yes, definitely. Uh, are you able to heal that? Heal HIV?

shakuntali

Uh, of course, it’s possible only when the person have a deep desire to change. I cannot come to the person and like a—like a fairy. “Yes. Now you don’t have disease [chuckles].” [Carrie chuckles flatly and briefly.] Yes. Of course, yes. Of course I do my methods, yes. I help people. But they need to have a, uh, a big wish to change. And they need to change their lifestyle. And this is only in that—in that way, everything will work.

carrie

Oh, okay. What do people with HIV usually have to change?

shakuntali

They need—they…because they don’t appreciate their lives. Yes? And, um…because of that, it, uh, this disease—what—God wants to show them.

carrie

Hmm. Okay. Um, what do you think would be the downside if you were wrong about all of this?

shakuntali

What is downside?

carrie

Uh, the bad. The, um…how—how would you know if you’re wrong?

shakuntali

If I am wrong?

carrie

Yeaahh. How would you know?

shakuntali

In—in the diseases, or where?

carrie

Yeah, in this—this theory that, uh, you can get to the root of diseases by figuring out what people need to change and cure them without medicine. If you—if you were wrong, uh, what—what would happen? How would we know that?

shakuntali

[Laughs] Interesting question. I think, uh, it’s never can be wrong. Do you know why?

carrie

Yeah, why?

shakuntali

Because, um…I have my own medicine, which is, uh…heal everything. And this is love to the people.

carrie

Mm-hmm.

shakuntali

And uh…and really…this—this is cannot be, uh, that I can be wrong.

carrie

So, you can’t be wrong?

shakuntali

I cannot be wrong.

carrie

You—you cannot?

shakuntali

I cannot.

carrie

[Chuckles very quietly] Um…do you think there is such a thing as false healers?

shakuntali

Of course [snorts quietly with laughter].

carrie

So how do we spot those?

shakuntali

How we can recognize them?

carrie

Yeah.

shakuntali

Mm-hmm. Um, you do know that they exist—everywhere exists—like, for example, dentist, yes? We can do go to one dentist who…uh, have a amazing instruments, yes?

carrie

Mm-hmm.

shakuntali

But he will—nothing happens and you feel that…your disease…your…he cannot heal your disease. But, for example, you can go to some dentist who don’t have good instruments, for example, yes? But you feel that amazing result.

carrie

Mm. Mm-hmm!

shakuntali

[Carrie makes a few affirming, thoughtful sounds as Shakuntali speaks.] And this is the same happening in the spiritual world. Now is a lot of people, like, who only study some spirituality. So exist two types of the healers, different. This is healers from the god. And the healers who study. And this is like their work. The person who, by the god was born. So it means that all his life, this person doing like 100%, he is only in that. He doing with a very big love and he can do it like…all—all hours, 24 hours. Or exists healers who have only like a—like sometimes they think that this is like business, yes. Go—for example—working three hours a day, like, not—from 2:00 to—to 6:00, yes? And this is like a work. And, of course, uh, me, with people receive something, yes? Maybe they receive some—this is like a medicine. You feel a little—a little bit healthy, yes? But everything come back.

carrie

Oh, right. Mm-hmm. Especially with cancer, yeah.

shakuntali

Yes. You never heal your disease. You only—you only will waste time.

carrie

Mm. Are you familiar with Jim Jones and Jonestown?

shakuntali

Who is this?

carrie

Um, he was a man who—he was a religious leader, and he told his followers that he could remove tumors without cutting their bodies.

shakuntali

Mm-hmm. Astral [inaudible] surgery.

carrie

Yes. Uh, but he—but he couldn’t really do it. He—uh, and he ended up leading—basically, most of—most of them died. So, how—you know, but he still devoted his life to that. So, how do we tell those two types of healers apart?

shakuntali

Mm-hmm. Yes, of course, it’s can, uh, it’s can exist people, yes, who want to do it. Like, it can be more interesting, like—like, interesting work, interesting job, yes. But, people who from the god, yes, this is people—they are not so a lot. They, uh, special people who heal with no methods.

carrie

Okay.

shakuntali

Again, this is no method. This is special quality of their heart, yes, which heal people. It’s can be any disease.

carrie

Ah, I see. So, that’s what you are.

shakuntali

This is—yes, because this is the mission. Because this is very different, yes, and I always say, don’t compare please. Don’t compare. This is very different things. Very, very different things. For example, when person all life was fighting for the predestination, to help people to do a million charity, dedicated their life, yes. And when you use your knowledge, is like a work, yes? This—this—

carrie

Mm-hmm.

shakuntali

—this very different things.

carrie

Sure. But comparisons can be healthy, right? Like, you did a double-blind study, right? Uh—

shakuntali

What is that?

carrie

Oh, uh, when you went to, uh—you did a scientific experiment in Canada where you were—remote-healed 180 patients with ruptured organs?

shakuntali

Mm-hmm.

carrie

Do—do you know what I’m talking about?

shakuntali

Yes, yes. I know. This is like one of the experience like what you asked me before, yes, how I make this experiences with the doctors. And for me it’s a very interesting, because I want to…that in our life, yes, people more use medicine like this is general. But we need to use medicine like for the special moments, like, for example, broken foot emergency.

carrie

Yeah.

shakuntali

But if we want to heal something, we need to…work with another things.

carrie

And where was that in Canada?

shakuntali

What?

carrie

[Enunciating pointedly] Where was that in Canada?

shakuntali

It was very, um…[stutters] this place, yes, I don't want to say about that, because, uh…of course doctors don’t want that. People who create medicine—because medicine, this is the business. Um…they don't want that this methods are to work. And of course, in that, uh, world, people of course don’t love me, yes? And I don’t want to speak the names about that. Yes.

carrie

Why did they fund the study, then?

shakuntali

What?

carrie

Why did they have the study, if they didn’t, uh, want to know?

shakuntali

Um, because, uh, yes. Especially this places, yes, they want to—because they’re, uh, are the doctors, yes, from the—from the heart. Yes, exist. A lot of the doctors who working in the medicine, yes, and they, uh…want to—they understand that not only medicine working, yes? And they made this experience, like, for them. Yes, for them, that—to know that.

carrie

But a study should be published somewhere. Um…what—where—where can I read about it?

shakuntali

About what?

carrie

The study.

shakuntali

Study? Which study?

carrie

The study where you went to Canada and the ruptured organs.

shakuntali

[Chuckling exasperatedly] I don’t know where—where you can—you—you can read it, because it was a—so a lot of—a lot of times. A lot of—a lot of time ago. And, uh, I don’t know it’s—if it’s published or not.

carrie

Hm. Okay. Okay, uh, well, briefly, the—the reason I found out about you originally was because I went to the Conscious Life Expo, and met one of your lovely followers. I believe her name was Carla. And then she invited me to a healing circle you were doing to help protect people from coronavirus. How did those go?

shakuntali

[After a pause] Mm-hmm. It was in the—[laughing] I have so a lot of events in my life. [Carrie laughs pointedly] We save a lot of the people, because a lot of the people stat to study feminine knowledges. And people who, uh, start to have these diseases, they very fast become healthy.

carrie

Oh, okay. Um, and so then you did the coronavirus healing circles?

shakuntali

Yes, I—I am a—I continue to do it.

carrie

Uh, aren’t you afraid of people getting the virus?

shakuntali

[Chuckles] I am not—I’m—of course we work through the internet now, because people don’t want—they afraid from the…from the current time, yes. But we did the retreat. And it was amazing.

carrie

Did anyone come who had coronavirus?

shakuntali

No.

carrie

Uh, but you would welcome that. You would let someone come who had it?

shakuntali

No, I’m—maybe yes, but maybe another people no [chuckles]?

carrie

Ah, okay, okay. Um, and can you see—if someone has coronavirus, can you use that special vision you have to see it?

shakuntali

Yes, of course. But, uh, this coronavirus, this is like—in reality is existed always. This is virus—this not, like, appearing suddenly on our planet. Yes, they—it start to influence them because now is a lot of—in the very deep depression, they attract this virus, and they start to influence them.

carrie

Mmm. And how do you know that?

shakuntali

How—[chuckles] because I—I—I know that. I—in my predictions, I think—one year ago, two years ago, three years ago, I said, in every my—my retreat, every my messages with the people, I say, “You need to prepare. Virus will come. Virus will come.” And they didn’t believe me [snorts quietly with laughter]. People, they think that—

carrie

Oh, okay.

shakuntali

—everything is good. And I always say, you need to—you need to develop spiritually. You need to have a good karma, yes? That this virus cannot influence you. Because all humanity will have these disease.

carrie

Ah, right. Uh, are there any videos of you making those predictions?

shakuntali

I think, yes, in my YouTube is million videos. [Chuckling] I know—I know somewhere we can find—

carrie

Somewhere. Um, I was looking at your education, and you also went to Siberia Federal University, right?

shakuntali

Yes.

carrie

And what did you do there?

shakuntali

In this university, I was working with um, with the teenagers who studied to help people. And there who have a difficulties with education. And they didn't want to study. And I work with their conscionisness in the time and help them to love this thing, what they study. And, uh, help them to…follow their mission. Follow their—open their talents and use them.

carrie

Uh, and was that through their psychology department?

shakuntali

Yes.

carrie

Okay. So, I reached out to their psychology department, and asked them about you, and they didn’t know who you were.

shakuntali

Mm. Okay [chuckles nervously].

carrie

Why do you think that is?

shakuntali

What, exactly?

carrie

Why do you think they don’t remember you?

shakuntali

[Chuckles] Maybe because I was with a different name.

carrie

Oh, okay. So this was before you turned 19?

shakuntali

Yes.

carrie

Oh! Okay, you worked with them when you were a child?

shakuntali

Of course, I was—I was very—I—I helped when I was, uh, six years old, I helped my father in—in the hospital. I—I—in that time, I bring some, um…some instruments to the doctors. I—I help to—in the surgeries. I was very—I was always, uh, with the medicine [chuckles briefly]—

carrie

Well, sure.

shakuntali

—from my childhood.

carrie

But carrying a scalpel is different from tutoring a—[chuckles briefly] tutoring a student.

shakuntali

Yes. My—my toys was the scalpel, the—it was all this instrument for the doctors.

carrie

But how old were you when you worked at, um, the psychology department?

shakuntali

In the psycho—in—I helped them when I was—I don’t remember, I think maybe 15 or 16.

carrie

So, you were living in the forest?

shakuntali

Yes.

carrie

So, you’re living in the forest, and then you would just take periodic breaks to go to the university?

shakuntali

It was the practice.

carrie

I'm sorry, what does that mean?

shakuntali

It was the practice, yes, to go and do and help people and go back.

carrie

Mm. Okay. And so you would go there. You had your old name. You were still working with the shaman. Uh, but you would go and tutor kids to help them learn, and then go back to the shaman.

shakuntali

Yes.

carrie

Okay. Okay. Um, okay, so—so this is really interesting, because, uh, you’re saying a lot of things that I hear from a lot of teachers. That they can—they can heal, that they can kind of see the future and kind of see in my body and so on. These are pretty common things I hear. And what seems to set you apart is this, um, science background. That you have a PhD. That you’ve had these testings. But you’re not willing to tell me where to find those testings. Your PhD you’re now saying was honorary. The, uh, university that you worked with doesn't remember you. What would you make of all that if you were me?

shakuntali

[Giggling] Yes, in—in this world, everything is like a mystery. And, uh, sometimes the spirits don’t allow it to know this information because people don’t want to see the real power, yes. But wants to see as to some proof, see as—but this is not so important, because if you want to know the person, you need to be with this person maybe one minute, maybe some one hour or some—to try what they do, what this person do. And this is will be the real proof of what this person do.

carrie

Okay, well I’ve been with you for 59 minutes now, so maybe in one minute I’ll—[chuckles]—maybe I’ll be won over. [Long beat] Right?

shakuntali

Yes.

carrie

Yeah [chuckles]. Let me ask you this, Shakuntali. Is it possible that, um, you really believe in what you’re doing, but you’ve also sort of fibbed a little bit, lied a little bit to pack your resume?

shakuntali

What is—I don’t—can you speak more, um, more, uh, slow?

carrie

[Pausing slightly between words] Yes. Is it possible that you really believe in what you’re doing, and you lied a little bit to, uh, help your work?

shakuntali

[Snorts briefly with laughter] I never, never lie in my life, yes? But in internet, you can read a lot of the things, sometimes yes. What is, uh…I don’t believe internet, yes? And I don’t, uh, a lot of people write about me different things, yes. And, um, some things. And I never, uh…and I never, um…I never say pe—I always say people that they need to come and be with me and, uh, try, yes?

carrie

Mm-hmm.

shakuntali

And this is the biggest step what they can do. I always say, “Never believe me. You need to try.”

carrie

Uh-huh. Uh…[chuckles briefly] but I’m looking at your website, and you call yourself a PhD. It’s in your trifold. It’s, you know—it—you know you’ve said this.

shakuntali

Which is PhD?

carrie

[Sighs clearly] Um, a PhD is a doctorate. A doctor of psychology?

shakuntali

Ah, yes, I understand. You know, sometimes English I don’t under—don’t, uh, good understand English.

carrie

Sure. But you say that you have a doctorate, and you talk about these studies on your own website. I’m not talking about what other people have written about you. I’m talking about what you—

shakuntali

Yes!

carrie

—have written about you.

shakuntali

Yes, yes. I say everything [chuckles briefly].

carrie

Yeah. Well…but, so—

shakuntali

What you want with this interview? To say people something that I am lying?

carrie

I’m—well, I’m asking you that. I mean, as—as we went through this, I thought maybe you would tell me where all these things happened.

shakuntali

Mm-hmm. Yes.

carrie

But as we went—

shakuntali

Uh, sometimes—sometimes people ask me interview, yes, who wants to help other people, and they want to help them. I don’t—the reason—don’t understand the reason of your interview.

carrie

Okay. My interview is also to help people. Uh—

shakuntali

Okay. What is your reason for this rit—for this interview?

carrie

So, I think that the best way to help people is to help them find things that really work. People who are being honest. People who have been through training. People who have been tested. I think that’s the way to help people. And if you were—if you were one of those people, I would be very happy to endorse you. But as we're going through your evidence on your website, in your leaflet, I’m realizing you don’t have any backing for these things you've said. And—and—

shakuntali

I don't need this. I don’t need this. And, uh, why you use my time one hour that you already know that you want to—for me—from me some proofs. Why I am use this one hour from my time when I can heal some person?

carrie

Well, because I think that's a worthwhile use of time, to find out if these things are true—

shakuntali

This is not good goal for this interview, yes. And I don’t want that this interview will be—to go to the people and so, uh, we can speak with you that you can delete my interview, because I don't give interview for this people who don’t want really to help this world.

carrie

Um, well, that’s not how this works. You’re already talking to me. We’re already recording the interview. So, this is going to go out. Is there anything that I got wrong that you want to correct?

shakuntali

Yes, of course I will correct everything. Because then I don’t want that this or…that with this, uh…reason with this goal, uh, it will go with the people.

carrie

Well, it sounds like you’re trying to protect yourself. That you’re—

shakuntali

Of course. I want to protect the divinity, what my special work, what I, uh, help people.

carrie

Right. Sure, and your income flow.

shakuntali

And I ask you to, uh, delete this conversation.

carrie

I'm hearing you. I’m not going to delete it. Is there anything you would like to correct while people are listening to this?

shakuntali

[After a beat] Of course, yes. You, uh…you will, uh, you will send this to my helpers. Only in that way, if there are everything will be like it’s need to be, it will comes. I have a lot of the critics in my life. People, when they see this critics, they never come, and they die.

carrie

Okayyy. Well, if they never come to you, there are other healers, right?

shakuntali

[Chuckles] Of course. Maybe we can stop our conversation. I don't want to continue this without any reason. Because when people don’t believe, I don't want to lose my time for this kind of interviews. I had a lot of this interviews and…I know that I only lose the time for that.

carrie

If you've had a lot of these interviews, maybe you should think about that.

shakuntali

Yes.

carrie

‘Cause I think that says something, right? It means that a lot of people are concerned about what you’re doing.

shakuntali

Yes, the people love my work and everyone who come, they—they feel that. And, uh, I want to help people. And this is my goal.

carrie

Yeah. Well, I'm telling you, the way you're worried that I’m wasting your time, I’m worries that you’re wasting a dying person’s time.

shakuntali

Okay?

carrie

Okay. [Beat] Is there anything you wanted to correct, before we go?

shakuntali

Yes, I want that you delete this interview.

carrie

[Chuckles very briefly, quietly] I understand that you want that. I’m not going to delete it, and this will be released. So, is there anything that you want to correct on air, so that it goes out with the interview?

shakuntali

[After a long beat] Yes, of course. You cannot put this interview without my permission.

carrie

That’s not true. So, that's not how the United States free speech laws work. I absolutely can.

shakuntali

Uh, no. I—you cannot cu—you cannot put this interview.

carrie

I understand that you don't want me to, but you—

shakuntali

Yes.

carrie

—you don't have the power to stop me from doing that.

shakuntali

Yes, yes. I not agree that this interview come to the people.

carrie

I understand. But it's going to be released.

shakuntali

No, I am not agreeing.

carrie

You don't have to agree. I can still release it.

shakuntali

[Chuckling briefly] No, no.

carrie

Yyyes. Yep! Yes, ma’am.

shakuntali

Yes, why you did this?

carrie

Okay, uh, because I—I wanted to know if you could actually back up these claims you’ve made, or if you might be lying. If you might be—either really believe in what you’re doing, and so willing to lie for it. Or, if I’m being less generous, willing to lie for money.

shakuntali

Yes, okay, but I have, uh, I have my power that the some person who you interview don't agree, it’s not possible that it will be by the—on the air.

carrie

[Chuckles softly] You are welcome to have your lawyer contact my lawyer, if that’s what you’re saying. But, uh, I—I absolutely can release this interview, and I will. So if you want to add anything that you want the listeners to hear, this is your opportunity to do that.

shakuntali

Yes, you can send and we will—and we will change it.

carrie

I will send you the episode when it’s up, but it’s going to be published with all of this. Do you understand?

shakuntali

[Chuckles] You…let’s hear what God now feel you need to think. What are you doing now? You want to help people.

carrie

Yes. Yes, I do.

shakuntali

Namaste.

carrie

Do you?

sound effect

[Skype call-ending sound.]

carrie

So. That's where Shakuntali ended the conversation by hanging up. Um, it was quite a wild ride. I’m glad you could join me for it. Before you go, I have some notes to update you on things we found out since the recording of this conversation. So, regarding Shakuntali’s bona fides—so, Altai State University has not replied to requests for confirming any honorary doctorate that might have been conferred upon her. For what it’s worth, they do seem to put out press releases when they do honor people with doctorates. I haven’t found one for her. As for Siberia Federal University, despite what she said in this interview—um, remember she indicated she was sort of a tutor of sorts at Siberia Federal University as a teenager. Um, I went back to her trifold, which was the original piece of material I was given to—by one of her followers. And that says that she had a quote, “Psychologist career” there and, quote, “Graduated from the clinic psychology department.” Hmm. No one there knew her. They were not able to confirm that she had studied there at all, much less worked there. Uh, speaking of that trifold, [chuckles] it also says that she is a neuropathology specialist and a surgeon. Huh. Uh, representatives for both Beyoncé and Kylie Minogue didn’t reply to a request for comment about whether they have worked with Shakuntali. And regarding her origin story—so, you’ll recall that Shakuntali says she lived in the forest for seven years, from age 12 to 19. She would leave it periodically to go to work at Siberia Federal University, and further that this—this forest was also where she escaped to after being in a mental hospital. Okay, she had said these things all in different places. And as you can tell, I gathered them together and sort of made her look at them as a whole and account for what seems to be some, um, discrepancies here. So, I—I did reach out to the police department in that area and said, “Um, okay, uh, do you recall a child going missing from a mental hospital near you and then being searched for, for seven years? ‘Cause that seems like a notable case.” [Amused] Um, they haven’t replied to that. Though, to be fair, I don’t know if I’d answer that e-mail either. Um, a listener with knowledge of the area did confirm there are forests in that region, but they noted that winters reach below 30 Celsius in that area—which, by the way is about the same as the coast of Antarctica. [Chuckles] So, we’re talking very cold winters for a 12-year-old to, uh, to survive on her own with, uh, her shaman. So, thank you Tanya Kostochka for helping with that.

carrie

So, regarding Shakuntali’s health claims. So, she told us that her blood circulates quickly, and that is what has made her so immune to various illnesses. So, I want to clarify. In—uh, in that moment, I said, “Oh, uh, are we talking about high blood pressure?” On reflection, that’s one thing that she could have been referring to. Technically, she could have also been talking about a high pulse or a high ejection fraction, which is how fast your blood moves out of your heart. As far as I can tell, none of those are associated with higher immunity. I did reach out to some experts, and no one seemed to think that that would make you less sick. And, equally importantly, I can’t find any record of any doctors or scientists who were vociferously seeking Shakuntali for this special study. Of course, Shakuntali also mentioned depression and COVID. So, I—I spoke to Dr. Patricia Celan, she’s a resident psychiatrist at Dalhousie University Hospital. And she says, “Research tells us that depression is indeed linked with a weaker immunes system. The reasons for that are unclear. It could be that a weak immune system can trigger depression or possibly depression weakens the immune system. However, many people who do not have depression are also falling ill with COVID-19, and treating depression alone does not prevent or treat this highly contagious virus. While there is indeed a link between depression and a weaker immune system, connecting depression treatment with curing COVID-19 is more than a stretch.” So, Shakuntali also said that she has some paranormal abilities. So, I couldn’t find any videos of her predicting the coronavirus outbreak, though she and her followers are welcome to send that anytime, and we’ll update our audience if they do. She mentioned walking on broken glass. This moment kind of swept by in the conversation. But, it’s worth noting that walking on broken glass is essentially a magic trick. It—it requires patience. It requires a small understanding of physics. But anyone who can walk can walk on broken glass. It’s a thing that you can learn to do. She also said that she made—that she makes someone hard like a tree. I wish I knew what that meant. It's hard to know what this looks like.  But it could be as simple as the, “light as a feather, stiff as a rock,” trick, which I’ll let you look up on your own. And speaking of looking things up on your own, highly recommend a video Shakuntali made of her walking across water. Uh, it’s a very—[chuckles]—enjoyable, dramatic video. Um, and it’s on YouTube. I’ll let you decide whether it looks like she’s walking across the surface of water or walking on something just below the surface, like a plank or a—a shallow river bed.

carrie

Now, about her reaction to this interview. I could find no critical interviews with Shakuntali. She mentioned that she had had a lot of interviews like this. I don’t know what to conclude from that. Uh, if you interviewed Shakuntali and you ended up not publishing your interview, I would love to talk to you. I’ll tell you how to contact us in a moment. And after this interview, I also contacted Rick Ross. Uh, the cult expert, not the rapper. And I asked him about Shakuntali’s statements that she’s never lied and that she cannot be wrong. So, Rick is one of the world’s foremost experts in high-control groups and manipulative spirituality movements. And here’s how he replied: “Destructive cult leaders can be deeply narcissistic and quite often refuse to admit when they are wrong. This quality may vary by degree from leader to leader, but it is an inherent quality of the overwhelming majority of destructive cult leaders.” So, after the interview, I had a conversation with Alice, via text. I kind of realized, “Man, this might be the last time I get to have earnest interactions with Alice before she’s kind of, um, soured on me.” So, I texted her, and I said, “Hi, Alice, um…Shakuntali appears to me to be lying about a lot of things. She—she has no evidence of the studies she completed. Her personal timeline doesn’t make sense. The university she claims affiliation with has never heard of her. And you’re a lovely woman, and I hope you take this opportunity to think about all this. Shakuntali knows no more about this world than you do.” So she replied, and she said, “Namaste, Carrie. I’m grateful for your comment and concern. As you well know, each person is different, each a universe of its own. And the interpretations from one world to another sometimes do not agree. As you well know, for each person, the truth is different. Sincerely, intellectual evidence is what least matters. I have seen and felt the divinity in her being and the transformation of each woman whose life she has touched.” I know how discouraging this sounds to some people listening. But I want to encourage you not to be too discouraged. These conversations are long. They take a long time. And intellectual evidence—[chuckles softly, sympathetically]—always ends up mattering, not matter how much the leader may discourage people from listening to it. The want for truth is embedded in us, and I trust it. So, Alice, if you hear this, please get in touch if you ever need help getting your story out.

carrie

I want to thank Shakuntali Siberia for doing this interview and probably cross-promoting it, bet she loved it. Um, Alice, of course, for setting it up. Matthew Strugar for legal counselling. You can learn more about Matthew’s practice including his work with journalists and activists, at MatthewStrugar.com. I’d like to thanks Siberia Federal University for attempting to find any record—[chuckles]—of Shakuntali having worked or gone there. They were very, very, uh, collaborative about it. I’d like to thank Rick Ross of the Cult Education Institute at culteducation.com. You should also check out his book, uh, Cult Inside Out. All the experts I mentioned. And if you have any information about Shakuntali and her following, we want to hear from you. So, if you’re a former follower, please reach out. We know you’ve got to be out there. And if you’re a current follower, we’d love to hear from you, too. But, don’t feel like you have to decide how you feel about this conversation today. Let it live inside you a while. We’re always here. You can use the contact tab at OhNoPodcast.com to reach us. And remember, from Shakuntali’s video, “The TRUTH behind Coronavirus,”

clip

Shakuntali (from YouTube video, “The TRUTH behind Coronavirus”): In reality, coronavirus, this is not this big a problem. Because this is normal, uh…flu, like a usual flu. Yes. But coronavirus, this is a spiritual disease, yes. This is spiritual, ah…ego. This is spiritual—God wants that we awake, that we can start to look now ourselves and understand that, “Why I am so ugly still."

music

“Oh No, Ross and Carrie! Theme Song” by Brian Keith Dalton. A jaunty, upbeat instrumental.

promo

Music: Fun, cheerful music. Kirk Hamilton: Video games! Jason Schreier: Video games! Maddy Myers: Video games! You like ‘em? Jason: Maybe you wish you had more time for them? Kirk: Maybe you wanna know the best ones to play? Jason: Maybe you wanna know what happens to Mario when he dies? [Someone chuckles.] Maddy: In that case, you should check out Triple Click! It's a brand new podcast about video games.

promo

Jason: A podcast about video games?! But I don't have time for that! Kirk: Sure you do. Once a week, kick back as three video game experts give you everything from critical takes on the hottest new releases— Jason: —to scoops, interviews, and explanations about how video games work— Maddy: —to fascinating and sometimes weird stories about the games we love. Kirk: Triple Click is hosted by me, Kirk Hamilton. Jason: Me, Jason Schreier. Maddy: And me, Maddy Myers. Kirk: You can find Triple Click wherever you get your podcasts, and listen at MaximumFun.org. Maddy: Bye! [Music finishes.]

promo

Music: Light, upbeat music. Speaker 1: Hey podcast fan, we have a quick favor to ask. We’d like to get a better idea of who you are and what you care about. So, if you have a couple moments to spare, go to MaximumFun.org/adsurvey. There, we’ve got a short, anonymous survey that won’t take any more than ten minutes to fill out. Plus, if you finish it, you’ll get a 10% discount on our merch at the MaxFun store! MaxFun shows have always relied on support from our members, and always will. The survey will help keep the few ads we do run relevant and interesting for you. Again, that’s MaximumFun.org/adsurvey, all one word. And thanks for your help. [Music fades out.]

music

A cheerful guitar chord.

speaker 1

MaximumFun.org

speaker 2

Comedy and Culture.

speaker 3

Artist owned—

speaker 4

—Audience supported.