TRANSCRIPT Oh No, Ross and Carrie!: Ross and Carrie Become Conscious (Part 7): Republican Goddess Edition

Ross and Carrie say goodbye to the Conscious Life Expo, an annual, new age event. They wax nostalgic about their trips down the halls of the various sellers, and then become deeply sidetracked by the world’s worst dating website.

Podcast: Oh No, Ross and Carrie!

Episode number: 241

Transcript

music

“Oh No, Ross and Carrie! Theme Song” by Brian Keith Dalton. A jaunty, upbeat instrumental.

crosstalk

Ross and Carrie: [Exaggeratedly and with English-esque accents] Helloooo!

ross

And welcome to Oh No, Ross and Carrie! The show where we don’t just report on fringe science, spirituality, and claims of the paranormal… but take part ourselves!

carrie

Yep! When they make the claims we show up so you don’t have to. I’m Ross Blocher.

ross

And I’m Carrie Poppy. And, uh, we’re back… for the final episode! In our Conscious Life Expo series.

carrie

Yayyyy!

ross

I know. You’re sad. You didn’t want it to ever end.

carrie

But this is our seventh one? And that means that you can listen to one every day of the week until you die.

ross

Hm! Or you can rest.

carrie

That’s true. Rest on the Sabbath.

crosstalk

Ross: After you’ve listened to the seventh episode. Carrie: [Aggressively] Which… is… Saturday.

ross

Oh, that’s right! Yeah! Don’t get your Sabbath wrong ‘cause that’s the Mark of the Beast, people.           

carrie

Mm-hm. Mm-hm.

ross

Alright. So. This is a good time for us just to recap some of the other, smaller, fun things that we did at the Conscious Life Expo in Los Angeles, in February. Right before everything started getting shut down. So we’re glad we got to go and we hope it happens again next year. And again, we’ve said before, we didn’t get to do as much as we would’ve liked to! And, uh, we could’ve spent a lot more time there. We’ll mention a few of the things today that we saw that could open up far larger worlds of exploration.

carrie

Yeah! You wanna tell me about some of the vendors and exhibitors you saw?

ross

Yeah! So, for example, I—right after I paid that woman for her book, the poetry book—

carrie

Got some animation advice.

ross

I got a few steps away from her booth and was immediately grabbed by this tall, confident guy. Y’know, he was just wearing a t-shirt but he had this just big air of—[boisterous voice with vaguely Southern accent] I’m this confident salesman and I’m gonna talk to you like this and I’m selling red pine tree oil! [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

That sounds like Lysol or something.

ross

Yeah! Come right over here! Here, have a drop of this! Oh, okay. He gives me a little dropper of his live pine oil and he’s very careful to emphasize—this is red pine oil. And so I’m gonna drop in my mouth—no, no, no, no! Sublingually! Oh, okay. Alright. Put it under the tongue. So I put that in and he’s like—best thing you’ve had in your life! Am I right? [Carrie laughs.] And I go, whoa, whoa. Hold on. And it’s—it’s really strong. It’s one of those… essential oils, uh, that just fills up—

carrie

And with pine!

ross

Yeah! And fills up your sinuses immediately. Like—

carrie

Ech!

ross

Just your whole head now is a big pine tree.

carrie

Yeah. Gross! [Ross laughs.]

ross

Yeah. It’s strong! Really strong.

carrie

I mean, I like the smell of pine but I wouldn’t wanna eat it!

ross

So while I’m kind of staggering around in front of him, going—whoa! Whoa! Whoa! He— [Laughs.] [Carrie laughs.] He’s saying, yeah. This is—

carrie

This is stronger than ayahuasca!

ross

Yeah. This can handle viruses and bacteria and it restores your—

carrie

Uh-oh!

ross

—adrenal gland and clears every metabolic pathway in the body! And, y’know, he’s like making all these rapid claims. And I’m going, whoa, whoa. Okay. Pine tree oil. Alright. The thing that really stood out for me was that he says that it slows down cell division. And I’m thinking—do I want that?

carrie

Do you want that? Yeah.

ross

[Through laughter] Yeah. Is that a good thing?

carrie

I mean—he probably is thinking, oh, it’s anti-aging? But there’s a lot of cell division that’s very important!

ross

Right. And, uh, he’s, uh, he’s telling me that it’ll increase the length of my telomeres. Those are the little—

carrie

Oh, good.

ross

—little ends on each DNA strand so as your DNA separates and recombines, over time you lose some of these telomere caps and that’s been one of the prime suspects that people have looked at to say, like, this might be kind of how aging happens.

carrie

Happens. Sure.

ross

Right. And so he says, oh, so y’know, you could live longer.

carrie

Do you remember that telomeres also, like, eat their own butts kind of thing? Like, it’s a—it’s like a wraparound process? Like a—like that snake game?

ross

Oh, interesting. I don’t know the process in any detail. But sounds right. So yeah. He’s reeling off the benefits. And he’s—he’s just in this, like, tiny half-booth right in-between two things with like quantum signs. But yeah! LivePine.com. They’ve got this oil. If—if what I’ve told you convinced you that you need some? Uh, it’s just $81 on the site.

carrie

Uh, for how much?

ross

For a 2-ounce little jar.

carrie

Okay.

ross

Of—this is the jar that he gave me. But they also have capsules. That’s only $110.

carrie

Okay!

ross

And all kinds of other pine products, uh, that you can get there.

carrie

Uh-oh. Wait. What did you say the URL is?

ross

LivePine.com.

carrie

Ah. I put LivePineOil.com.

crosstalk

Ross: Oh, I thought you tried LivePine.horse. Carrie: Classic mistake. [Carrie laughs.]

ross

I was gonna tell you that’s actually not it.

carrie

I just, uh, default to horse all the time. Ooh! Pretty website, though! There’s pine trees! I love pine trees. You know what? I’m sold!

ross

Okay. Yeah. Buy some. Just not for me.

carrie

Guardian angel acupuncture?

ross

Oh, yeah. They’ve got other products there as well. Uh—

carrie

If they’re selling guardian angels but instead they gave you some essential oils…

ross

I don’t know. There’s lots of people at the Conscious Life Expo selling guardian angels. So. [Laughs.]

crosstalk

Carrie: Okay. Fair. Ross: Uh, I guess that’s his way—

ross

—to stand out. But yeah. He said—this always gets me. One drop is all ya need. And so he’s giving me that drop; like, cool, I’m good then!

crosstalk

Carrie: Oh, right! Yeah! Yeah, yeah, yeah! Ross: Good for life, right? [Laughs.] And—

carrie

And don’t worry! My cells won’t be dividing so they’re gonna be in me forever.

ross

Yeah. So I’m now perfectly preserved. You might as well have encased me in plastic.

carrie

Right. [Laughs.]

ross

‘Cause I’ve had one drop of this stuff. Of course, though, that doesn’t make for a business model.

carrie

Correct.

ross

So after we’d talked for a while, the last thing he said to me was, like, come back later for another drop! [Carrie laughs.]

ross

I was—wait, you just said one drop’s all I need! Uh, I asked him how he knew all the—

carrie

It’s all you need.

ross

Mm-hm. Yeah. Right. But it could be even better.

carrie

Mm-hm.

ross

Right. There’s need and then there’s want and then there’s optimal health. I don’t know. [Carrie laughs.] Uh, and so—yeah. I asked him—oh, wow! How did you find all this out! And he said, oh, well we’ve got a researcher.

carrie

Oh!

ross

I’m just the founder. Oh, okay. So—

carrie

I’m just the founder.

ross

The founder. Yeah. Steve. A very smooth salesman. So—as Scientology would say—he’d already body-routed me to his little—little half-booth there and would’ve smooth-talked me into buying a, uh, a bottle that I—I got away and said, oh, well maybe I’ll come back later.

carrie

Maybe we’ve talked about this before on the show? But this is bringing up a principle that I feel like needs addressing ‘cause I’ve heard it a lot recently? Which is—people being confused about… well, ozone is used to disinfect things? Or… oh, it says on the back of my squirter bottle that it kills the coronavirus!

ross

Mm. Mm-hm!

carrie

Like, what does that mean? Can I—could I eat this? Could I spray this on something and be safe? Etcetera. If something can kill a pathogen, say, on your table—

ross

Yes.

carrie

That’s different.

ross

Mm-hm.

carrie

Than you putting it in your body. And it circulating through your system and you having immunity now.

ross

That’s a very good distinction to make!

carrie

Yeah. This is, uh, also the problem with—there’s something called “ozone therapy” that—for a complicated reason I’ve gotten very knowledgeable about in the last year.

ross

Uh-huh?

carrie

But it’s an alternative medicine practice where they put ozone in your blood. It’s highly dangerous. But their whole argument is like—well, ozone kills bacteria. And it’s like, well… yeah! [Laughs.]

ross

But it can kill other things, too!

carrie

Yeah! It could get—yeah. It could kill you. And… even if it kills bacteria, like, I mean—their examples are like, on a table. In—in cultures. And stuff. It’s like, that’s not the same!

ross

Right. Right.

carrie

That’s not the same!

ross

Yes, you can kill coronavirus with bleach. If you had coronavirus on your table and you wiped it with bleach—yes. It would die. Do not ingest bleach! It will kill the rest of you, too!

carrie

Right. Right.

ross

Don’t do that.

carrie

No, no. Thank you. Anyway.

ross

People. Oh man, there’s just so many fun, interesting things. As we’ve been talking about, it’s really hard to walk down these aisles. First of all, ‘cause you have so many carnival barkers trying to drum up interest for their particular product and get your attention.

carrie

Mm-hm.

ross

And also just ‘cause they’re all interesting. Y’know? There’s so many things going on. So there’s a woman there who’s offering Akashic Record readings, and healings and classes—like, well, cool! On any other day, if I was at the… farmer’s market and I saw you there, you would be the sole focus of my attention. But you’re just one booth amongst many next to the Quantum Balance Crystals. And… and the other booth has all these glowing goo-gahs that are supposed to protect your home from smart meters. [Carrie laughs.] And… I also passed by the, uh, Sirius booth? So, uh—

carrie

Oh, that sounds serious.

ross

Yeah. The—Sirius as in the, uh, the star. S-I-R-I-U-S. And that was talking about ascended masters and—and now that I look back, I realize that was the—the group that was following Tatyana Mikushna.

carrie

Ah! Great!

ross

You went to her talk—

crosstalk

Ross: —which we talked about. Yeah— Carrie: Yes! The world’s most boring spiritual leader.

carrie

Ooh! Is she more boring than Harold Klemp? Hard to say.

ross

That’s quite the competition there.

carrie

Mm-hm.

ross

They had an interesting booth, though. I gotta say. ‘Cause there’s various people walking around wearing white clothes.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

Looking a little bit like they were maybe out of the past or some alternate universe. There’s, like, pictures of these various spiritual leaders. And, uh, signs about the Maitreya—who is the Maitreya?

carrie

Ah, right.

ross

Every religion is expecting someone who’s gonna return!

carrie

Oh, did they call her the Maitreya?

ross

Y’know? The—well the sign was there. I—they don’t explicitly say—at least on the sign—that she is the Maitreya. But they’re saying that, uh, all of these different names—like Christ; Buddha; Imam Mahdi; Krishna; the Messiah—they’re all just different names for the Maitreya. The world teacher. Head of the spiritual hierarchy. He is in the world now. Oh, he.

carrie

Oh, okay.

ross

So—okay. There we go.

carrie

But this was her group?

ross

Unless—you know what? Oh—hm.

carrie

‘Cause I thought I saw that booth and recognized it as some people I ran into at Veg Fest.

ross

You know what? Maybe this is [through laughter] bleeding over into the next-door booth.

carrie

Ah. Well, that tells you something that you couldn’t tell ‘em apart.

ross

They’re— [Laughs.] They’re right next—hmm. You know what? Okay. I—I take it back. Maybe the Maitreya, then, is from this other booth right next door.

carrie

Hm. Okay. These two people three feet apart both say they’re the Way, the Truth, and the Life. I’m— [Laughs.] How do I differentiate between the two?

ross

That’s… so funny. Okay. You know what? I’m gonna show you a photo here.

carrie

Okay. Okay. Yeah. So “The world teacher has come” is on the left.

ross

Yes.

carrie

And that one is…

ross

And Sirius is slightly divided by a little…

carrie

I—yeah. I still don’t know which one’s which. So on the right… is…

ross

The Sirius-slash-Ascended Master booth.

carrie

And on the left is our gal.

ross

Okay.

carrie

Tatiana?

ross

Uh, the right is Tatiana’s.

crosstalk

Carrie: Uh, okay. Oh, right, right, right. Ross: Followers.

carrie

Okay. ‘Cause she was into the Ascended Masters thing.

crosstalk

Carrie: That’s right. Okay. Okay. Ross: So I don’t know who the world teacher is who has come!

carrie

Right. I think I do in a sense? I think I ran into these people at Veg Fest.

ross

Okay.

carrie

But their whole philosophy is confusing and I—I think we would have to see in person to really understand. But I remember talking to someone there and—at Veg Fest? Who—probably a year and a half ago? And asked and I think they were like, well, we don’t just tell people. We get you to come to our thing and then we tell you!

ross

Sure. Yeah. That’s too easy!

carrie

Yeah.

ross

You gotta work for this basic knowledge.

carrie

Right.

ross

Okay. Well, the one I’m talking about—this world teacher who has come, the Maitreya—had sightings of stars all over from Bakersfield and Pasadena— [Carrie laughs.] —and German and Boston and France. Yeah. But I just loved that they led with Bakersfield and Pasadena and Huntington Beach.

carrie

Oh. Three towns near LA for those not from here.

ross

These sightings of this star that has foretold, uh, the Maitreya is coming. Okay.

carrie

Wonderful.

ross

That’s so funny. Well, at least those two booths were not duking it out.

carrie

Yeah. Yeah.

ross

But this is one of those ones—again—where I thought, ooh, I need to learn more! But I just had to kind of quickly walk by. I saw the Anu Alchemy booth?

crosstalk

Carrie: Oh, is that my white crap? Yeah! Ross: Ormus guy—yes!

ross

So he was there doing little healings.

carrie

Oh, yep! That’s the guy! That’s the guy who invented it there.

ross

The founder and discoverer?

carrie

Mm-hm. And did you know… that that stuff… makes you a magnet for baseballs.

ross

[Through laughter] That’s right! [Carrie laughs.] Amazing. As I was walking by, the creator-founder guy—who’s wearing like this gold vest, that’s pretty awesome—he’s got his hand on somebody’s forehead and he’s doing some kind of healing or something. And my heart went out to—there was a boy sitting there.

carrie

Oh, that’s—that’s the boy!

ross

Wait, you know this boy?

crosstalk

Ross: Oh, who attracts the baseballs! Carrie: That’s the boy who attracts baseballs!

ross

Aw, this poor kid. Like—

carrie

That’s the magnet!

ross

I just felt for him. He’s sitting there with an iPad or something. Just, like, trying to keep himself busy. I just—I felt for him. Like, all the hours I spent at churches just kind of waiting around for the parents to do their thing.

carrie

Yup.

ross

You know, this is him. At this booth. Oh, okay. I guess my mom sells this stuff and that’s my life.

carrie

She told me to go talk to him and I—I think he was, like… oh, yeah. Yeah. It works. Y’know.

crosstalk

Ross: He’s gonna have stories to tell when he gets older. Carrie: Went along with it. Yeah. And you—

ross

I just—it felt like, uh, a parallel existence to my own but in a very different world.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

And I saw that at other booths, too. Where, y’know, the person’s doing their shtick but they’ve got their disinterested kid sitting nearby. This is—this is their life.

carrie

Right. Indoctrination’s such a funny thing. ‘Cause what’s actually happening for him is the same as what happened with, like, Megan Phelps-Roper. Right? It’s just like… this is the normal world that my parents introduced me into and they’ve not taught me any other way!

ross

[Through laughter] Right. Exactly. I have not yet gained the perspective to know that this is very fringe.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

At one point there was a guy selling a massage gun. And so I came up to him, like, okay! And I’m like—wait—for—what’s the claim? And he starts, uh, he turns his thing on and I don’t know. It looks like someone’s essentially taken a drill and they’ve just added this attachment that kinda rapidly bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum—sort of, um, pummels you with this massage thing.

carrie

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

ross

Felt great. So he’s giving me this little massage and like, okay, well what does this do? And, oh, yeah. Well it massages you. It’s like, oh! [Carrie laughs.] This is so refreshing!

carrie

This is—that’s what I thought it did!

ross

It doesn’t realign any… spiritual energies within me?

carrie

You’re like, excited. It doesn’t heal anything?!

crosstalk

Ross: It doesn’t call angels down upon me?! Carrie: It just… feels… good? [Laughs.]

ross

It doesn’t—doesn’t interact with a biofields?

carrie

Or subluxations?

ross

Nope! And, uh—

carrie

Oh my god!

ross

So that—

carrie

Sell me one!

ross

Might be the only legit thing I saw in the entire show floor. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

That’s interesting. ‘Cause down below there was a whole massage area. Did you see it? It’s like, massage chairs—

ross

Oh, yeah!

carrie

—massage attachments. I wonder if they were making wild claims or if they were just like—people here will like massages.

ross

Yeah. I mean, a massage is a nice thing!

carrie

Yeah!

ross

Who knows. Uh, yeah. That was $200. Came with six attachments. As I started walking away it was $150, so. [Carrie gasps.]

crosstalk

Ross: Yeah. Coulda gotten a real good deal on that. Carrie: Oh, man.

ross

But that’s not what I was there for. Um—

carrie

You are here for things that make wackier claims— [Ross laughs.] —than thus.

ross

[Through laughter] Yeah. Sorry, massage guy, but I appreciate you selling something without anything attached other than—

carrie

Your attachments.

ross

—the six attachments. There was, uh, this true align body system? And it had people kind of face-down with their heads disappeared into this pillow mask. And then people doing adjustments on their backs. And I thought it was this thing that had been on social media shortly before, with this, uh, what was it—famous actress or something?

carrie

Yeah! Uh, Julianne Hough.

ross

Like, this guy had just touched certain points in her body and she starts squirming and writhing around.

carrie

Yeah. And it was like sort of half-possession, half-sexual?

ross

Yeah. Right. Yeah. She’s kind of, like, moaning and—yeah. What’s going on with this? So just—at a—at a glance this looked like the same thing. So I got all excited and I was telling Carrie—ooh, we gotta go back and do this! And squirm around! But no. It was just… some kind of face-down, uh, alignment of spiritual—who knows. [Carrie laughs.] Wasn’t what I was hoping it was.

carrie

Just something that looked identical but not as fun.

ross

Yeah. This place is so wild. There’s so many colors; there’s so many interesting costumes. The next thing I walked by is, like, a bunch of people with their heads sticking out of these little individual saunas?

carrie

Oh, nice! Oh—yeah! I saw those!

ross

Imagine this—I don’t know. Like, kind of silver… tent camp. [Through laughter] With just these little cubicle-shaped tents. With people’s heads popped out the top of ‘em. I don’t know.

crosstalk

Ross: It’s—it looks— Carrie: Yeah. Ask yourself—

carrie

—how you’d bake a person.

ross

It looks— [Laughs.] [Carrie laughs.] Without—

carrie

But without killing them.

ross

But yeah. Right. And preserving the eyeballs ‘til the last. Uh— [Laughs.] [Carrie laughs.] I don’t—it’s just—it’s so funny to me to walk down these aisles and just—you never know what you’re gonna get!

carrie

Yeah.

ross

You never know what’s gonna come out of these aisles’ faces. [Carrie laughs.] You—there was this other booth I didn’t get to stop at called the Shambala Planetary Monastery?

carrie

Oh, okay.

ross

And they were the ones that had the giant metal pyramid that you would sit under with four chairs faced in different directions?

carrie

Yes. Yes.

ross

And they had people wearing headphones having some kind of rhapsodic experience.

carrie

And holding, like, what looked like dumbbells but made of wire?

ross

Yes!

carrie

Copper wiring, I think?

ross

Right! And all kinds of really interesting little metal structures, uh, hanging. Visually, it was a really cool booth.

carrie

Yeah. I remember seeing a picture of this place.

ross

And I would’ve loved, like, if you said—Ross, you can go back to the Conscious Life Expo and experience one thing you missed! That’s probably the next thing I would go do.

crosstalk

Carrie: Whoa! Cool! Ross: Probably.

ross

Uh, there’s many things I would experience. But that was one of ‘em. Uh, I walked past—there was this little conference area. They had… chairs lined up and it looked like a PA system so that people could come in and just take turns giving little talks. And so it was between talks. But there was a drawing pad up for a demonstration and I was so intrigued because they had written out in big numbers: 3+4=7. 5+6=?

carrie

Oh.

ross

I was like…

crosstalk

Ross and Carrie: —11? Ross: But maybe not! Carrie: Is it? [Both laugh.]

ross

[Through laughter] Yeah! Right—what? What?

carrie

You’re making me question it!

ross

So intriguing. Oh man. I just—I love this show floor. [Carrie laughs.] Uh— [Laughs.] Uh, so one of the next guys I got into a conversation with was somebody who had an iconic foot bath.

crosstalk

Carrie: Ah, classic. Ross: Product.

carrie

I’ve taken these.

ross

Yeah. This—

carrie

And so have you.

ross

Yeah. We did an episode not too long ago. So, uh, if you wanna learn kind of exactly what’s going on with that, definitely check that out. But he was selling the Alimtox Ion Generator.

carrie

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

ross

That’s the name of his particular product. And I think they have sort of a reseller thing going on.

carrie

If I remember right, that one… instead of being a detox thing is like… an energizing thing. Like, it’s supposed to charge you or something. Right?

ross

Yeah. This tied in a few different claims all into—into one. But it was mostly based around this ionic foot bath. And, uh, this guy Wayne was there. And—I don’t know. He was also wearing a t-shirt and a flat-brimmed baseball cap. And I don’t know. I have a hard time taking you seriously as a seller if you’re wearing a flat-brimmed baseball cap.

carrie

I’m trying to picture a flat-brimmed baseball cap. So it doesn’t curve.

ross

Right.

carrie

Like, he hasn’t done that thing where ya pull it down on either side and loosen it up.

crosstalk

Ross: Yeah. It’s like—this is fresh out of the box and I’ve put it on my—my head. Carrie: Okay. Huh. Oh, right, right, right. That’s—

carrie

That’s a look. I, uh—huh. I guess I know enough people who sport that look that I don’t think that would do anything.

crosstalk

Ross: Alright. Well this is a prejudice on my part. But. Carrie: To my impressions. But. [Laughs.]

ross

It wasn’t this guy, but that’s the look.

crosstalk

Carrie: Right. Right, right. Yeah. Ross: And if you— [Laughs.]

carrie

I know enough people with that look that it doesn’t, uh, do anything anymore? But I get it.

ross

If you’re trying to sell me a ionic foot bath—

carrie

Take a moment and bend your cap.

ross

[Through laughter] That’s right. [Carrie laughs.] Then I’ll hear ya out. No. I—I still heard Wayne out. There were a lot of signs. He’d put up all these little banners talking about the different, uh, things that it helps you with. Course it improves your overall health. Your sexual energy. That’s great. Uh, but he started selling me on how—essentially—what we’re doing with this is chelation. And—

crosstalk

Carrie: Uh-oh! Ross: Oh. Okay.

ross

Like, heavy metals? Yeah, yeah! But also, just—debris in your cells.

carrie

Oh.

ross

Y’know, we’re—we’re loosening it. We’re helping run it out. And he had kind of an interesting way of describing this. ‘Cause I kept saying, okay, and you’re pulling all this out through your feet? And he had sort of an interesting… alternate… way around this by saying that by coursing this ionic energy through your body, what we’re doing is we’re loosening all this stuff. And it’ll come out in other ways, too. Not just through your feet.

carrie

Okay.

ross

Which I thought was clever. Though you also do have the same thing with the—y’know—the metal fixture in the water and all the gunky stuff—

crosstalk

Ross: —that comes up. Yeah. Carrie: Oh, it did! Okay. Okay.

ross

So that’s still part of it.

carrie

Oh, interesting. Then this isn’t the one that I saw that was energizing. ‘Cause I asked a woman using it. She’s like, you gotta do this! It’s amazing! And I said, oh, does like that—that stuff come out of it? And she was like, oh, nothing comes out of it. It just energizes you.

ross

Oh. Interesting. Okay, no. I think this was a different booth.

carrie

Okay. I was tempted to pay $5 just to be like, hey! Watch this! And then not put my hands in it. Y’know.

ross

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I told them that I had been to a—a foot bath not too long ago. And he said, oh, well did they put a wristband on you? And I said—no. No, I don’t think they did. He said, ah. Like, 90% of the time you’ll go to these places and they’ll give you a foot bath and it’s barely functional. Because if you don’t have the wristband on it’s not fully completing the circuit of the ions.

carrie

Oh, sure.

ross

The negative ions through your body. Oh, okay.

carrie

Okay. Maybe she could tell I was over 21 so I didn’t need a wristband. [Ross laughs.]

ross

And then he was talking about alkalinity and how we also have these water purifiers. So this was another part of the whole package. You get these water purifiers and he says—yeah, most people’s water is like this—and he points to a cup of water he has that’s all yellow.

crosstalk

Ross: Y’know, like, pee, but—clear—it’s obviously not pee. Carrie: Ew! Okay.

ross

Uh, he says, y’know, most people drink water like this. But you wanna drink water like this and so he’s got water that’s dyed blue.

carrie

Oh!

ross

And—

carrie

No, I don’t want that, either. [Laughs.]

ross

Yeah. And he’s like—well doesn’t—it doesn’t have to be blue, but it’s alkaline. You need to get the pH balance correct. And so he had this kind of stainless steel metal thing that had some sort of filter built into it? I don’t know. It was this whole Duma jig that he unscrewed and poured water into and then he poured it out and it was a slightly different color and he’s like, see? Try that. Like, oh, okay. Good. [Both laugh.] It’s water.

carrie

We gotta talk about alkaline water sometime because I’m a little unclear on it. I looked it up one time like to see if there were studies out there and I felt like—oh, I think this is kinda like gluten free where a very small segment of the population could benefit?

ross

Oh, interesting!

carrie

But there’s no “there” there are far as like… thus, everyone should.

ross

Oh, yeah. I haven’t looked into it deeply but my recollection is that the body does a pretty good job of neutralizing everything anyway? So unless you’re eating a wildly imbalanced diet?

carrie

Right.

ross

Or have some other kind of external factor? You’re gonna end up with the same pH balance across all of those substances within your body regardless.

carrie

Which I could believe. With the variety of humanity that some people do have, y’know, their bodies have trouble moderating those things. But it would be a specific subset of people.

ross

One of those things like—if you need it, your doctor will tell you you need it.

crosstalk

Carrie: Yeah. Yeah. Ross: Sort of thing.

carrie

Most likely.

ross

So then he told me—well, it’s $1200 online, but you can get $300 off here if you buy it. I said, oh, so $900? He said, well, actually, $1000.

carrie

Oh!

crosstalk

Ross: So I was getting really confused… Carrie: 5+6=? [Laughs.] [Ross laughs.]

ross

That must have been his presentation! So it turns out it was $1299, which he represented as $1200 normally.

carrie

Oh.

ross

Oh, yeah. But he was gonna give me the discount price of $1000. He’s like, oh, yeah, and we’ll throw in all these extra things. You get arrays—A-R-R-A-Y—array is the actual, like, thing that puts the attachment in the water that does that whole ionization process. So you get an extra one of those. You get the wristband. You get two of these water ionizers. And he said, oh, yeah. If you try to get like a Kangen water device that’ll be $3000. So this is a huge steal!

carrie

Oh, my goodness.

ross

So I was trying to sort of edge away and just move on to other things. I thought, eh, I kind of understand your claims. We’ve looked into this before. Uh, I had to kind of—

carrie

And you didn’t walk away without one, right?

ross

[Through laughter] Right. So I said—well, let me think about it. Yeah. I gotta keep walking around here Oh, yeah, I tried using the excuse that had worked with the massage guy. I said, oh, I don’t really wanna carry this around with me the whole time. He said, oh, we can do shipping right to your house. Like, oh, shoot. That’s always the worst. You put out an excuse [through laughter] and it’s the wrong excuse and now they’ve talked it down.

carrie

And now it feels like, oh, you’ve obligated yourself instead of excused yourself?

ross

[Through laughter] Exactly. And so I said, okay. Well maybe I’ll come back later. He said, oh, come back any time! Try out—y’know, we’ll give you a foot bath. It’s like only 30 seconds. Oh. Wow. Okay. So, uh, yeah. That was my ionic foot bath from Alimtox. There was, uh, a CBD oil booth with all the benefits and they had a—a big microscope—really fancy microscope there. You could tell they were proud of.

crosstalk

Ross: I wonder what they were doing with it— Carrie: Ooooh!

ross

—other than just having it there as a prop.

carrie

Yeah! I wonder if you could look at the CBD! Could you see… bd?

crosstalk

Ross: Ohh! That would—yeah! I like it! Carrie: Hmmmm!

ross

I like it! So while I was wandering around, what were you up to, Carrie?

carrie

I was probably off in a parallel universe. [Ross laughs.] Who knows what I was doing at that exact moment. You fall into a time warp at this place. But yeah, I wrote down a few exhibitors that stood out to me, and I also took a bunch of materials. Boy. All the paper you could ever need or want—

crosstalk

Carrie: —at this place. Ross: Oh, yeah.

carrie

Carrie’s got a fat file.

ross

Yeah.

carrie

Of brochures and handouts and books.

ross

Ugh. So I’ll go through some of those, but as for exhibitors I actually talked to, there was a—a guy selling something called C60 Purple Power? Did you see this guy?

ross

Oh, yeah! I saw the—the signs for that and they had, like, a lot of super fit, athletic people—things that looked like stock photos—

crosstalk

Ross: —that they had just— Carrie: Yeah, yeah.

ross

Repurposed for this.

carrie

Right. And I think? I think his product had CBD in it? But I’m not even sure. I talked to him for a minute and I couldn’t really get a clear… read on like, okay, but what’s in it? What—why am I taking this great thing? But he told me that it was the ultimate antioxidant protection for people and pets. And here’s what’s really great about it—you cannot OD on it because it has no toxic level.

ross

Which tells me if it can’t hurt you—

crosstalk

Carrie: Probably— Ross: Probably can’t help you either.

carrie

Probably isn’t doing anything much unless it’s like… a vitamin I’m deficient in.

ross

First, do no harm. That’s good. But then actually do something. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

Uh, oh! I met some people from the International Association for Near-Death Studies?

crosstalk

Ross: Ooooh! I did—didn’t see that! Carrie: Yeah!

carrie

I had never heard of these people. They were in a tiny little alcove where they were getting very little foot traffic? But I thought they were pretty cool. Having talked to them for only ten minutes, but. [Laughs.] They—so the connect people who have had near-death experiences?

ross

Okay.

carrie

And… they actually said to me… apropos of nothing, just volunteered this, said—y’know, we’re open to spiritual and scientific explanations.

ross

Okay!

carrie

You don’t have to be religious. You don’t have to be spiritual. Which was kind of a… surprising thing to say in this environment? You’d think you would try to angle it the other way?

ross

Right, right. Like you would even need to have that be part of your pitch.

carrie

Yeah!

ross

Everybody here is spiritual.

carrie

Right!

ross

Unless they’re weirdos.

carrie

[Through laughter] Right.

ross

What kind of weirdos would just come in and wander around—

carrie

[Through laughter] Who didn’t have those views? So I said something a—as we were talking I used the term “NDE,” short for near death experience? And he was very impressed. He was like—

crosstalk

Ross and Carrie: Ohhhhh!

ross

You know about the literature!

carrie

People don’t know—yeah! They don’t know that term unless they’ve had one! Have you had one? And I was like, oh, no. [Ross laughs.] But I do know it! But they seemed cool. They seemed to me kind of, like, the Fortean attitude. Of, like, maybe there’s a “there” there? We let everybody come in the room and talk and…

ross

Yeah.

carrie

Make your own conclusions.

ross

Alright. Yeah. I like those folks.

carrie

Yeah.

crosstalk

Ross: That’s cool. Carrie: I think it’s pretty cool.

carrie

And they are supposed to have a conference coming up… FYI, people in Salt Lake City—they’re supposed to have a conference in September.

ross

Oh.

carrie

But…

crosstalk

Ross and Carrie: Who knows.

carrie

I’m supposed to get married in October and… who knows!

crosstalk

Ross: My friend, uh— Carrie: Fun.

ross

—just had to reschedule her wedding.

carrie

Oh, man!

ross

To next year.

carrie

When was hers going to be?

ross

August.

carrie

Oh, yeah. All of our vendors have been, like—no, no, no! It’s gonna be fine! You should do the thing! And we’re like, ehhh… is this just ‘cause this is your business model and you need clients? ‘Cause…

ross

My friend Natalie just posted the other day, like, oh, it’s so depressing to have to delete your Google Calendar entry for your own wedding.

carrie

Oh! Yeah. That’ll be me soon! Very likelyyy.

ross

Aww.

carrie

Who knows.

ross

I was gonna be speaking at SkeptiCal in June. That’s cancelled.

carrie

Yeah. I was supposed to see my mom next week in Wisconsin. That’s cancelled. But it’s okay! We’re protecting people who are vulnerable to a disease.

ross

That is worth the cost.

carrie

Okay, Ross. Look at all these materials!

ross

Okay—oop! [Thumping sound.]

carrie

Hear them?

ross

Yep. I hear them. I see them.

crosstalk

Ross: Carrie’s got materials. Carrie: They’re on.

carrie

On the table in front of me. With everything combined, I think I might have a good half a pound of literature.

ross

Oh! Easily!

carrie

Okay. So of course we’ve got Awareness Magazine here that’s go our gal Tatyana Mikushina on it.

ross

Mikushinaaa!

carrie

I think this magazine is entirely her people? Maybe?

ross

Well it’s easy to get on the cover if your people make the magazine! [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

I’ve noticed that. Yeah.

ross

Yeah. That worked for L. Ron Hubbard.

carrie

[Through laughter] Mm-hm. Anyway. There’s Awareness Magazine if you’d like to take a look.

ross

Thank you.

carrie

You’re welllcome! Man. Look at this! This—okay. I’m holding the… exhibitor’s list pamphlet? Just what it sounds like—a list of the exhibitors? And it is… 42 pages long.

ross

Oh, wow!

carrie

I mean, there are some ads in it? But the main content is just literally a list. Like, one line for each vendor.

ross

Is that Rahm Emanuel on the back? Obama’s old chief of staff?

carrie

It’s, uh, Raphael and Emanuel—

ross

Oh.

carrie

—embodied by Oscil Tolksol. Um…

ross

That’s different.

carrie

I haven’t heard of any of those three people. Well, Emanuel. I’ve heard of him. He’s in the Bible.

ross

I went to pick up one of the conference programs and then realized, oh, this is the Spanish version. So I’ve this Spanish language conference. But it actually has, like, a whole different set of talks that they’re highlighting that are all in Spanish language! So then I also have my English language one. I got it.

carrie

Nice. That’s cool. Yeah. They had a whole arm of the exhibitor hall that was for Spanish speakers and I was so excited because—for a millisecond—I read the sign without my mind going—I don’t speak this language. Like, I just—

crosstalk

Ross: Oh, cool! I love that experience! Carrie: —read it! In Spanish!

carrie

Yeah! It was cool! And then, of course, I got to, like, whatever. The third line and was like, oh, this is Spanish. [Ross laughs.] Oh. I don’t—I don’t speak it that well.

ross

Oh, that’s great.

carrie

But I’ve been learning it.

ross

Nice.

carrie

I showed you this earlier, so we’re not gonna get your true reaction, but—this card, I just found it again. This Tarot card that was in my notes.

ross

Yeah.

carrie

That I believe Dylan Monroe gave to me when he had decided I was sort of… on the ins.

ross

Yeah. [Carrie laughs.] A sympathetic soul.

carrie

Yeah. Now I’m picturing it, I believe he took out a Tarot deck and said—yeah. You know, I don’t do this for everybody; but pick a card. We’ll see what it means for you. And so I pulled Mdina—M-D-I-N-A—

ross

Mdina.

carrie

Yeah. I think he said, oh, that’s a good one. That’s a good one. I pocketed it. Never looked at it again until today when I realized it is a person holding up a severed human head. [Ross laughs.]

ross

I would assume John the Baptist? But… who knows.

carrie

Who knows!

crosstalk

Ross: Who knows. Carrie: And there’s a bunch of bees on it?

ross

And…

carrie

Did you already google Mdina?

ross

Yeah. It’s, uh, it’s a city in Malta.

carrie

Oh, right. Okay.

ross

And I think that plays into… I don’t know. The Knights Templar. Or one of his other…

carrie

Okay.

crosstalk

Ross: —Big narratives. Carrie: That makes sense.

ross

And, I don’t know. Something akin to an iron cross in the center? Not quite? But, y’know—

crosstalk

Ross: —some sort of— Carrie: Which does look like—

carrie

—his kind of…

crosstalk

Carrie: —artistry. Yeah. Ross: Symbol.

ross

Yeah. There’s a lot going on there. I’d love to hear that unpacked.

carrie

Yeah. Iron crosses are one of those things that—it’s not quite swastika level? But it is one of those, like, ahhh—enough white supremacists have coopted this that maybe come up with something else.

ross

Mm-hm. Mm-hm.

carrie

Maybe just use something else!

ross

Yeah! _[Laughs.]_That’s right. There’s plenty of symbols out there!

carrie

Right! How about… a thumbs up?

ross

Yeah? [Laughs.]

carrie

I’d join your religion!

ross

That hasn’t been corrupted yet… entirely.

carrie

Oh, that’s true.

ross

Facebook. [Laughs.]

carrie

Maybe I don’t wanna encourage them to do this so we just have to get rid of everything we’ve got?

ross

You know what? In that case, stick with all the bad ones. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

Okay. What have we got here? Oh, here’s—this is from… Anu Alchemy. You met them.

crosstalk

Carrie: If you’re interested in looking at their official sell. Ross: [Deep voice] Ormus!

carrie

Oh, this really clears it up for me. Anu Alchemy. Ormus has collected a Navapashanam water by a loving community on full moon, solstice, equinox, or eclipse!

ross

Oh, good!

carrie

It’s made from many herbs and minerals. By an immortal Siddha from South India!

ross

And it’s food for the pineal gland!

carrie

Perfect! My pineal gland is starving! It assists in activating the light body; increases clairvoyance and memory; promotes mental clarity. Great. Clears up acne. Great.

ross

Oh! Could use that. Okay.

carrie

Acts as a natural Botox?

ross

Hm.

carrie

Relieves chronic pain. Reduced gum infection.

ross

I mean, isn’t Botox also natural? Just dangerous?

carrie

Oh, uh, yeah. Okay. Prevent gum disease. Grow healthier nails.

ross

What’s not to like?

carrie

I love anything that has claims that just jump from… the top of the pyramid to the bottom? So it activates the light body… and grows healthier nails! [Ross laughs.]

ross

[Through laughter] Yeah. [Carrie laughs.] Oh, okay! It takes care of the spiritual and the mundane.

carrie

Yeah. But nothing in-between.

ross

The lofty heights and the lowest lows.

carrie

I guess… reduce gum infection, I’d say, is in-between.

ross

There we go.

carrie

Speaking of Botox, though—which can be injected at safe doses—

ross

Yes.

carrie

I, uh, now get it for my migraines and it’s the most effective thing I have ever gotten.

ross

Yeah?

carrie

Yeah.

ross

So like it takes a little while to kick in, but then you’re migraine-free. Right?

carrie

Nearly.

ross

Okay!

carrie

I mean, it—without it? On a bad month where the barometric pressure is high and the air’s not clear, etcetera? I’ll have like 50% migraine days over the course of a month.

ross

Oh, yeah.

carrie

With them on a bad month? It’s like… three to four.

ross

Oh!

carrie

So significantly reduced.

ross

Well… worth it.

carrie

Yeah! Worth it.

ross

Where do they put it?

carrie

Oh, yeah. So apparently—this is what my neurologist told me. I haven’t second-guessed him and looked it up. But apparently there are these, like, 40 spots? That they… inject them into, no matter where you get your migraines from? Which is kind of counterintuitive? But supposedly it works the same either way?

crosstalk

Carrie: So they’ve just stuck with it? Ross: Wow. This sounds like meridians or something.

carrie

_[Through laughter ]_Yeah. But, so—there are, like, points in the base of your neck. The side of your neck. Your masseter muscles?

crosstalk

Ross: Oh! Yeah. Carrie’s pointing at her cheeks. Carrie: Which is a big one for me.

carrie

‘Cause I grind my teeth real bad at night and it keeps you from doing that. Your temples. Of course. Your knight’s temples.

ross

Mm-hm. Your templars.

carrie

[Through laughter] Yeah. Your, like, lower hairline? Although—unfortunately—I—

ross

Carrie is rubbing her fingers over all these parts.

carrie

The last time I was like—can you not do the ones right there because it makes my eyes droop a little. And he was like, no, you gotta do this. And then he did it super-fast and now I just have a little bit of droopy in my left eye and not my right eye?

ross

Oh, wild.

carrie

Yeah. Can you see it? Now that I say it?

ross

Now that you say it, okay. Sure.

carrie

Yeah. And then… perhaps most importantly, they put it in your scalp.

ross

Oh!

carrie

Yeah.

ross

Wow. Okay! So they kinda hit all those spots—

carrie

Mm-hm.

ross

—in one session.

carrie

Oh my gosh, it’s so fast. He just goes, bup-bup-bup-bup-bup-bup-bup! ‘Cause he’s done it a million times.

ross

It’s like—be careful! It’s—

carrie

I know!

crosstalk

Ross: —Botox! Carrie: Actually—

carrie

My neurologist is really weird. [Laughs.]

ross

[Through laughter] Yeah. Okay.

carrie

But it’s working great. But—

ross

Wow. That’s fascinating.

carrie

The last time I saw him, I asked him if everybody was worried about COVID. And he was like, oh, not really here. But thanks, China. And I was like, oh noooo…

ross

Hmmm.

carrie

Oh, no. Just give me them Botox shots. Or… you’re holding a very sharp device.

crosstalk

Carrie: This isn’t the time. Ross: You know, come to think of it—

ross

—I used to get headaches probably about a quarter as often as you would.

carrie

Mm!

ross

But I haven’t had any for… many, many months!

carrie

Huh!

ross

Maybe, like, a year! I haven’t really thought about it!

crosstalk

Ross: But I haven’t been getting headaches! Carrie: I wonder what changed?

ross

Yeah, me too! Well, I should keep doing whatever I was doing.

carrie

When did you become a vegetarian? Can we blame it on that?

ross

Oh, no. That was, like, over three years ago.

carrie

Oh, [through laughter] Okay. Sorry.

ross

Oh, no, no regrets!

carrie

Happy Anniversary!

ross

Yeah. Thanks. No. It’s, uh, it’s a good thought. But yeah! I’m not sure, actually. But I’m glad not to have ‘em!

carrie

Yeah. That’s interesting. Y’know what? We should go back… try to figure out the last headache you had, and then figure out what the last treatment is we got before that?

ross

There we go! So we can give it full credit!

carrie

Yeah. Call ‘em back and be like—hey! Sweat lodge or whatever. [Ross laughs.] Okay. Here’s good news! There’s gonna be a new Travis Walton documentary— [Ross gasps.]

crosstalk

Ross: Whoa! Fire in the Sky! That guy! Carrie: Um, that’s going to debut at the Phoenix MUFON. Yep.

ross

Yeah! We got to meet him.

carrie

On my terrible ex-boyfriend’s birthday, November 14th!

ross

Okay!

carrie

Exactly nine months after…

crosstalk

Carrie: —Valentine’s Day. Ross: The Phoenix… MUFON.

ross

Okay! Well, that looks exciting. Hold onto that one!

carrie

Also, I really love the artwork.

ross

Not the bad ex-boyfriend.

carrie

Right. [Laughs.]

ross

That flyer.

carrie

God be with him. But isn’t that beautiful?

ross

Yeah! That—

carrie

I love the art.

ross

Oh, yeah. That’s a great painting.

carrie

I wonder who did that.

ross

Yeah. I feel like it’s a variation on… previous renditions I’ve seen of that abduction encounter. But yeah, it’s got all the elements! It’s got his friends in the truck there watching him. Yeah! That’s pretty cool.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

I like it.

carrie

I like it a lot. I saved this just because I thought it was great that—among all of this stuff making these huge claims—there was one trifle for just [tiny voice] a place you can go camping.

ross

Aww!

carrie

[Tiny, aged voice] If you’d like to go camping, we have a beautiful place to go camping.

ross

That’s the equivalent of my massage guy. I’m like, aw, you just—you just have something nice.

carrie

It actually does look beautiful! It is… the Terra Nova Center in North Carolina.

ross

There ya go, people! That’s where you can go!

carrie

Uh, this is also—I’ll remind you—the place where I found out about Kimberly Meredith.

crosstalk

Ross: Yes! Carrie: Of the Healing Trilogy.

ross

You may remember Carrie’s [through laughter] interview with Kimberly.

carrie

She and I are very close now. We’re really good friends.

ross

And we may have another interview with Carrie and somebody else that she met from…

carrie

Yes!

crosstalk

Ross: The Conscious Life Expo! Carrie: We will!

ross

We’ll definitely have one more. We might even have…

carrie

Yeah, that’s true!

ross

A third! [Laughs.]

carrie

Yeah. That’s true! I guess this is a good moment to tell you some updates about Kimberly.

ross

Yeah!

carrie

Okay. So… Psytech actually followed up and sent more specific statements about her… claim that she got a double-blind test there.

ross

Okay.

carrie

Yeah. So… they basically—they were really clear that she had not completed a double-blind study there. And she had not even completed a study there.

ross

Cool.

carrie

So… what she had done is—

crosstalk

Ross: Cool, Kimberly. Carrie: [Laughs.]

carrie

She had gone for what they call a “lab day” or “study day”? Where the person wants to, uh, experiment with their powers. Get some good equipment involved. Get some good readings. Which is good. Um, and she—I think she had paid for this out of pocket. But… he said… that they made several proposals to her for a formal research study and she didn’t choose any of the proposals and go forward.

ross

This sounds so familiar to me with my work with the IIG—now CFIIG—talking to a claimant for a while and eventually realizing—okay. This is just not coming together.

carrie

Mm-hm.

ross

Either they’re not willing to abide by a protocol or they just see that—oh, shoot, I’m gonna have to actually demonstrate this and they sort of dropped off the conversation. But then later on they pop up somewhere else and say—hey, y’know, I was validated by this group! That’s not how this went down.

carrie

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

ross

So good on you for checking with Psytech.

carrie

Thank you! I actually really liked talking with them. I thought they were… pretty cool!

ross

Awesome.

carrie

And then he did send me… he did send me the informal report they had given her about the images that she had. Those thermographs, if you recall?

ross

Yes. That were kind of cut off so you couldn’t see the dates on one side and… uh, the posing was different from picture to picture. Didn’t seem like it was too useful of information.

carrie

Yeah. So… this rep noted in his report—his informal report—that the results don’t conclude that she had caused any notable improvements.

ross

Oh. Okay. [Laughs.]

carrie

So. To sum up: not a study. Not double-blinded. Not single-blinded. Not double-blinded even by her definition of the term, which is that you go back over and over.

ross

[Through laughter] Right. It—didn’t she—afterward—after this… episode with you talking to her came out, didn’t she post on Twitter an actual definition of double-blind?

crosstalk

Carrie: Yes. That’s right. Ross: —studies. As if she knew that to begin with?

carrie

Yeah. Just said—this is what double-blind means. Just apropos of nothing. Just sharing this info.

ross

Well, if nothing else happened, at least now she knows what a double-blinded study is actually supposed to be.

carrie

If nothing else happens, I got a Trump nickname. Because she tweeted about me and called me Carrie Poopy. [Laughs.] [Ross laughs.] Um, yeah. She seems to be a little hung up on this interview. She tweets about it a lot.

crosstalk

Carrie: Then deletes the tweet. Ross: Yeah.

carrie

Y’know. I—I kind of feel for her. But.

ross

She, uh, asked to have two of our Facebook photos removed.

carrie

Yep.

ross

She filed complaints.

carrie

Yeah. Which—they were fair use, so we said, no, no. We’re going to keep those. Also… her LinkedIn profile says that she went to UCLA Nursing School, so I contacted them. And they said—nope. We don’t have any record of her ever having been enrolled, much less completing. But they said she actually was an employee, and we’re not allowed to comment on employee matters. We can’t tell you more than that. But she was an employee.

ross

Interesting! Okay.

carrie

Now, of course—you could work there and you could be the line cook. You could be… the head neurosurgeon.

ross

I didn’t mention this before, but—on her IMDB profile—by the way—I don’t think we mentioned this before—she has played a nurse on TV many times.

carrie

Yes!

ross

So she [through laughter] has many roles as a background nurse or assistant nurse. Under the Trivia section in IMDB? It says—she is also a licensed nurse. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

Cool.

ross

False. Not even just misleading. False.

carrie

Seemingly false. Yes. We have no reason to think that’s true.

ross

Because—as many have talked about their—there are different levels of certification.

carrie

Right.

ross

You could be an LVN; an LPN; a CNA.

carrie

Right.

ross

And all of those are helpful and—and good positions to have. But—

carrie

Some of which are considered nurses.

ross

Right. But there is even some debate as to… at which level of nursing you can just kind of use the phrase “I am a nurse.” I—

carrie

Right. Also all those things? She wasn’t those, either.

ross

Right.

carrie

As far as I can tell. There was an entire part of the audio that I ended up editing just because it was so confusing. Where I was saying, like, are you saying you were a different kind of nurse? What are you saying?

crosstalk

Carrie: But it just became so circular. Yeah. Ross: She had ample opportunity to clarify.

ross

If she was, y’know, an assistant nurse. Or…

carrie

Right. Licensed vocational nurse.

ross

Right.

carrie

Yeah. Um, and I had looked up on their respective websites, as well, before this interview. Like, okay. Was she that? And tried to find—and listen. Here’s the thing. I don’t mean that I knew before the interview that she wasn’t a nurse. I really didn’t know! But I wanted to know—what is your answer to “why can’t I find it”? If it had been—oh, yeah. It was in this other state and they don’t report to the federal registry. Or something! And you know, those things happen!

crosstalk

Ross: Right! Or—or it lapsed last year— Carrie: I would’ve accepted that answer!

ross

—because I’m not actively working in that profession.

carrie

That would still show up in a search, but.

ross

But at least that could’ve been…

crosstalk

Carrie: Mm-hm. Part of the explanation. Ross: —an—yeah.

carrie

Yeah. That’s true. Yeah! So… [sighs.] I don’t think this question would even come off as unfriendly. If you had a nursing license. [Ross laughs.] And said to yourself, oh, that’s weird.

crosstalk

Carrie: You couldn’t find it? Oh! Ross: It’s only—

ross

It’s only when you have zero answer that suddenly it’s very rude.

carrie

[Laughs.] Right. Probably. Anyway! I hope she’s well. Um— [Ross laughs.] Oh, look at that! Here’s a David John Oates trifold.

crosstalk

Carrie: Your buddy. Ross: David John Oates!

ross

Yes! Reverse speech!

carrie

I, uh, I also have an update about him!

ross

Okay! What do you got?

carrie

So—since he’s Australian I reached out to my friend at the Australian Skeptics.

ross

Oh, yeah!

carrie

Um, a really lovely group of people. And… Trish Hann, who’s on the board there, uh, she got back to me. I—I asked her, do you guys have any experience looking at David John Oates’s work? And she said, boy howdy do we! Uh, and so for years—I mean, back into the early ‘90s—they’ve been sort of tracking his philosophy and checking it. Testing it. And they did a—a great little independent study where they got four groups of people and played them the same clips and then they like—

ross

Ah, nice!

carrie

—got Group A sort of primed to hear the thing David John Oates says you’d hear and then Group B primed to hear something else that you could hear and then Group C wasn’t even told and—y’know. Anyway. So they were very, very thorough and their finding, at least, was—yeah. It just matters whether you primed the person or not.

ross

Aw. I’m glad you reached out to her. I meant to talk to our friend Richard Saunders—

carrie

Oh, right!

ross

Who’s an Australian skeptic as well. And, uh, delightful person. Who runs the, uh, Skeptic Zone podcast.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

‘Cause I’m sure he would have stories to tell about David John Oates as well.

carrie

Totally.

ross

And [through laughter] speaking of which—while I was editing that episode and just looking for some of the clips that he had mentioned and used during the presentation, I found that he had—on the day of the 2016 election—

carrie

Uh-oh.

ross

He had uploaded two videos. One was back masking audio of… Hilary Clinton.

carrie

‘K.

ross

And the other of Donald Trump.

carrie

Mm-hm.

ross

And all of the Trump ones were… very rah-rah pro-America, and all of the Hilary ones were about how insidious and horrible she is. And planning to enslave the world, etcetera.

carrie

That’s interesting since he was willing to do that one backmasking where he said he was saying—I’m trying to scam you! Or something like that.

ross

Right. Like, he was willing to be a little more equanimical in the talk, but, uh, very clearly he had selected all of the pro-Trump ones and then all of the anti-Hilary ones. And he had sent this out in a newsletter to all of his followers, and had linked these two videos and said “I hope you know which choice to make today.”

carrie

Oh, wow.

crosstalk

Ross: Good job, David John Oates! Carrie: It’d be funny to just—

carrie

—comment on that, like, oh, whoa, I didn’t know—okay, I’ll vote for Clinton! No, no, no! No! No!

ross

[Through laughter] Right? A little, uh, little bit of Australian interference in our elections.

carrie

Oh, true! Yeah.

ross

Hopefully— [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

He did it—

ross

I hope it influenced very few people. I can only imagine. Of his subscribers who wasn’t already convinced that they were gonna vote for Trump. Y’know, who was convinced by his backmask audio. But still, I do not appreciate the effort, David Oates.

carrie

Well speaking of him, I did submit a FBI FOIA request for whatever contributions he made to the Waco siege.

ross

[Through laughter] Oh, yes! Okay. Can’t wait to see what comes back. I sent Carrie a search results from his website and there is a lot of uses of slurs. We mentioned that a little bit.

carrie

[Sighs.] Yeah.

ross

And someone was commenting on our Facebook page that they’re from Australia and this is a common thing where you have kind of this older generation who’s sort of…

carrie

Mm. Mm-hm.

ross

Likes the freedom that they have to still use some of these taboo phrases.

carrie

Right.

ross

So he might just kind of fall within that societal slice.

carrie

Yeah. An edgelord of a certain age? [Both laugh.] An age-lord? Anyway. I’m actually friends with him on Facebook now. And, uh—I sent—

ross

Oh, you’re best friends.

carrie

[Through laughter] So I sent you this this morning. A screenshot of this. But he posted that COVID-19 was made in a lab in Wuhan and the media’s finally reporting this, but he had actually heard it in the backmasking recently. Uh, sort of taking credit that he had prognosticated this outcome. I was like, I’ve been hearing this— [Ross sighs.] —the whole time from quote-unquote “alternative”…

crosstalk

Ross: You did not come up with this. Carrie: —unsourced media.

ross

And I liked how you asked him, like, cool. Where was this from? Which— [Carrie laughs.] —because he just generally referenced that there was backmasking. Yeah! Okay. Which audio were you listening to? Who said it?

carrie

Yeah!

ross

Subconsciously?

carrie

Well, it was—someone else had asked that as well. And he did say “Trump,” but he didn’t like link to—

crosstalk

Carrie: —the audio or whatever. Yeah. Ross: The actual audio.

ross

So we could even hear the quality of the… of the phrase.

carrie

Right.

ross

“From China, it’s bad!”

carrie

It was “the weapon—I lost the dare.” Something like that.

crosstalk

Ross: [Through laughter] So—ahhhh! Ahhh! Carrie: While talking about COVID. Yeah. Something like that.

ross

This is—he’s definitely one of those people where—if he was more prominent and people took him more seriously—if Oprah had catapulted him like she did Dr. Phil and Dr. Oz—I would be very anti-him? But I just kind of like him because he’s a smaller figure and hasn’t, uh… caused that much harm as far as I can tell.

carrie

Right.

ross

But he would if he could.

carrie

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. That’s probably right. Which brings up a whole other thing about whether you talk about these people when they’re tiny. I’m for it, as long as you’re always giving the other side of the story.

ross

Linda Moulton Howe! [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

Okay. Back to my stack of papers. Ross.

ross

Hey, Carrie!

carrie

Would you like to go to Atlantis?

ross

Yes, please.

carrie

Well, great. For the first time ever, you can.

ross

Yessss!

carrie

March—oh! We missed it. March 2nd-8th, 2020.

ross

Noooooo!

carrie

I know. But you know how you do it? You take ayahuasca.

ross

Oh, yeah. Okay. I saw this. Yeah. [Laughs.]

carrie

And then, uh, presumably someone leads you on a guided meditation to Atlantis.

ross

Are you saying I could’ve gone to Atlantis when I was on ayahuasca?

carrie

Yeah! You should’ve!

crosstalk

Ross: Oh, man! Carrie: You could go to the fucking moon, Ross!

ross

I went to Las Vegas! [Through laughter] What a wasted opportunity.

carrie

Did you?

ross

Yeah. One of my visions— [Carrie laughs.] —was of—

carrie

Being in Vegas?

ross

Las Vegas, yeah.

carrie

That’s funny.

ross

And I felt complete emptiness. And futility.

carrie

Oh, right. Well, that’s… that’s an accurate vision of Vegas.

ross

Mm-hm! [Laughs.]

carrie

Um…

ross

I’m sorry, Vegas. We love you.

carrie

I don’t.

ross

We love the people there.

crosstalk

Carrie: I like—Yeah. The people there are good. Ross: The city’s—

carrie

City, pretty bad.

crosstalk

Ross: City? Pretty shitty. Carrie: But hi, Becky Campana!

carrie

Who let us stay at her house! She’s very sweet.

ross

You’re the best! See? [Carrie laughs.] Good people in Las Vegas.

carrie

Um—

ross

If you’re in Las Vegas, we’re saying we like you!

carrie

Exactly! [Ross laughs.] Oh yeah. So here’s that, uh, Wellsong Energetics people that I, uh, stole their medicine at the talk.

ross

Can you imagine us doing a live show in Las Vegas? [Laughs.]

carrie

Huh. Trying to picture that. Is that a good idea or a bad idea? You’re thinking bad?

ross

I was thinking bad, but now I’m giving it a second thought. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

I mean, there are aliens do it.

ross

Because I have rejected it outright, now my brain tells me—maybe you need to take this seriously!

carrie

Oh, yeah! You know? Let’s talk about Lebanon, Kansas.

crosstalk

Ross: Nope. No. [Laughs.] Carrie: Oh. Dammit.

ross

If you’re a MaxFun subscriber, make sure to listen to the Bonus Episode—

carrie

Mm-mm.

crosstalk

Ross: Of the Judge John Hodgman show. Carrie: You can skip it. [Laughs.]

ross

No, it’s a good one! You wanna hear this! Because—

crosstalk

Ross: —Carrie and I have a dispute— Carrie: It’s not important. It’s not important.

ross

—and can you imagine who won the dispute? [Both laugh.]

carrie

Doesn’t matter. You don’t need to listen. [Ross laughs.] Uh, this is fun. Claymonics—words transformed into sacred geometry. Which basically… I think are Magic Eyes?

ross

Oh! Like where they have that distorted image and if you kind of properly focus your eyes you can see the 3D image?

carrie

Kinda. Well, okay. It is in that—okay. The fourth one is… a grid that you can do that thing with your eyes? But it would be the background?

ross

Ohhhh. Okay.

carrie

Anyway. So maybe not.

crosstalk

Carrie: But claim— Ross: Are you good at those?

carrie

Yeah. I can do it without doing this.

crosstalk

Ross: Oh, impressive! Carrie: I just, like—

carrie

Kinda cross my eyes and I see it. Yeah. They’ve kinda got a Teal Swan thing going on. Uh! Speaking of—

ross

Ooh, pretty! Okay. Takes me a little work but I can do it.

carrie

‘Cause, y’know, Teal Swan does those, uh—

ross

Energetic paintings?

carrie

Yeah.

ross

I’m still trying to digest this thing you handed me that’s about EMF Solutions and Vibrational Medicine?

carrie

Yeah. That was—

ross

Oh, that’s the TBD! Right!

carrie

Yes.

ross

“To Be Determined.” Yeah. [Laughs.]

carrie

The medicine that’s made out of sand and rocks?

ross

Uh-huh. Okay.

carrie

Imbued with whatever you need it to be imbued with?

ross

Cool, cool, cool.

carrie

Speaking of Teal Swan—backtrack for a second—she is selling on her website masks. That have these frequency paintings she does on them. And are called things like “The Cure” and “Immunity.” So you’re supposed to—the idea of her frequency paintings is that she manifests that thing—

ross

Mm-kay.

carrie

So the implication here… is that you have immunity or the cure.

ross

But you’re wearing a mask, at least?

carrie

But you’re still wearing a mask.

ross

Hey, if I gotta choose—alright. At least wear the mask and think something else is happening?

carrie

Uh-huh. Okay. Well, I reported it to the FDA.

ross

[Through laughter] Alright. Magic feather.

carrie

Right. [Laughs.] Wow. What—man. I didn’t even get to read this whole thing before, but these are people who believe chemtrails are real and… GMOs are bad. That kind of thinking?

ross

Okay. Okay.

carrie

One of the rhetorical questions on the front is: “Why are bees getting Alzheimer’s just like people?”

ross

Are they?

carrie

I don’t… think so.

ross

I was hoping the question would just be—why are bees? [Carrie laughs. Ross joins in.] ‘Cause that’s almost a better question.

carrie

Why is there an illegal federal gag order on the nation’s weathermen?

ross

Is there?

carrie

I don’t think there is.

ross

I don’t know if I trust these premises.

carrie

Anyway. This is—

ross

Oh, the ad is shaped like an iPhone!

carrie

And it says “Google” at the top because people in these communities love to tell you to just Google it.

ross

That’s so weird because Google is part of the conspiracy and they’re controlling things and yet also they can use it to look up all of this—

carrie

Right.

ross

—bad information.

carrie

And it’s how you can see that secret structure in Antarctica.

ross

Same as how you have all the Flat Earthers talking about how YouTube censors them. “Now go look at this YouTube video to learn the truth!”

carrie

Right.

crosstalk

Ross: Hmmm. Carrie: Well.

carrie

Are they just shitty censors? Or— [Laughs.] [Ross laughs.]

ross

Right!

carrie

They’re terrible at it? Or…

ross

Right. Oh man. All this stuff about Bill Gates trying to introduce the—either the Mark of the Beast or One World Government or some sort of toxin inside the vaccine—it’s like—this narrative! I just don’t understand how it’s playing out in your heads! Because—

carrie

Is it playing out in your heads?

ross

Right! If this is… what he wanted—if he had all this control—then wouldn’t we already have the vaccine ready?

carrie

Oh, good point! Yeah, yeah, yeah!

ross

And he’d be offering it now and we’d all be gladly taking it?

carrie

Oh, yeah!

ross

Why— [sighs.]

carrie

In fact, just—

ross

Mmm. There’s no logic here!

carrie

—tell us it—yeah. Tell us it cures something else that’s uncurable. Like—

ross

Yeah! Right! If it’s all staged, stage it coherently!

carrie

Right! Like, we don’t’ have…

ross

Let’s tank the economy that’s—that’s hurting everybody! It’s hurting the rich and powerful as well! I mean, not—not as much as, uh, not as much as most of the population; but still. They’re losing money, too. They don’t like it. They want business to go on as usual.

carrie

For the most part. I’m sure there are some profiteers. But—

ross

Of course.

carrie

—very few.

ross

Of course. Still. I just—I don’t understand the underlying logic here.

crosstalk

Carrie: Yeah. You—well— Ross: Sorry. This is—

ross

—just me venting.

carrie

Yeah. And so to get around that problem, you decide these people are not like you.

ross

Right.

carrie

Bill Gates is somehow a completely different animal with completely different motivations than me. Uh—

crosstalk

Carrie: Classic, classic. Ross: Mm. And all of this is a façade—

ross

—and a ruse and—yeah. Anything that seems one way is actually the other.

carrie

Uh, one of, uh, our favorite products—the Water Smacker— [Ross laughs.] —has an amazing— [Laughs.] Amazing leaflet that I’ll have to put up.

ross

I totally missed this. I don’t even know what part of the show floor it was on.

carrie

It was on the underground… the subterranean floor.

ross

Oh, okay! I probably walked by them and didn’t even know it. How does it smack the water?

carrie

[Laughs.] I’m not sure. Let’s see. Water Smackers’ patent was granted on… January 8th, 2019! Okay! No other drinking water enhancer in the world does what Water Smacker does.

ross

Okay. I am willing to cede that.

carrie

To help hear your body without drugs.

ross

[Through laughter] Okay. I’m not willing to cede that.

carrie

Invented by a retired DOD scientist—oh, the Department of Defense.

ross

Okay.

carrie

Patent granted on— [Laughs.] January 8th, 2019. Okay. It will micro-clustered 100%-negative hydrogen ionize and charge your drinking water with a spark. It helps clean out blood plaque; alkalinize your body’s blood pH; runs on one watt of energy. 100% preventative healthcare. Way more info at WaterSmacker.com.

ross

Y’know, “confidence man” is really the right term. [Carrie laughs.] For this kind of scam. Because… y’know, I think… we and our audience are now sort of geared—when we see phrases like this “micro-clustered hydrogen ionized; 100% negatively-charged drinking water!” We stop and think! Like, okay. How do you unpack that? What does that mean? Does that mean anything? It could mean nothing! You know, we’re aware of that. But I think a lot of people just look at this, y’know, like my mother-in-law. Y’know. Would look at this and say, oh, wow! Okay! Well, he knows what he’s talking about and he’s saying things so I… believe this!

carrie

He got a patent on January 8th, 2019!

ross

Yeah! And the important thing is just to say enough… to establish that confidence, and then say a whole lot more—

carrie

Uh-huh.

ross

That people don’t know how to process. And they’re like, oh, well I trust you! Why would you lie to me? Why would you be a jerk?

carrie

Sure. This is exactly what other people are saying about, like, Bill Gates or whatever, though.

ross

He does not get that benefit of the doubt.

carrie

Yeah. And the backside is, like, testimonials? Not credited to anyone?

ross

Oh, I—I see what you’re saying. So that Bill Gates is taking advantage of people’s trust.

carrie

Right. Like, they’re probably say, oh, y’know, he says enough smart things to you that you’re like, [makes dumb noises] okay! I’ll believe you, Bill Gates! Like a blind walking into the wall mime?

ross

Right. Except the things he says pan out with the World Health Organization and places with actual active scientists and scientific consensus. So yeah. I guess then it’s just, uh, which camp do you choose to buy into?

carrie

Right. And is that particular… tactic… like, that particular tactic is good to notice!

ross

Mm-hm.

carrie

Um…

ross

Mm-hm.

carrie

But yeah. It’s not the entire equation.

ross

Water Smacker. With an exclamation mark! This flyer could save your life! Wait, I’m picking it back up now. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

It was also really expensive. I can’t remember…

ross

No, no, Carrie! This says “ONLY $350.”

carrie

Oh! You know what? Actually, I thought it was a lot more than that. That—that is too much?

ross

Yeah.

carrie

But…

ross

These other systems will cost you $1500-$5000.

carrie

I would be curious to look up the patent.

ross

Oh, though there is a new Pro model—$550!

carrie

Ooooh!

ross

Dual-powered! It runs on two watts! Whoa! Be still, my heart.

carrie

Okay. [Laughs.] Huh. [Pause.] Huh. Um— [Both laugh.] I would be curious to see what that patent looks like. I bet it’s… pretty nuts. Do you feel like looking it up? It’s on January 8th— [through laughter] 2019. Okay, friends, we’ve found it.

ross

[Laughs.] Okay. You got the date right!

carrie

Yeah!

ross

Capture and regeneration of subtle energy resonance signals.

carrie

Abstract: systems and methods for capture, recording, and regeneration of subtle energy resonance signals are described herein.

ross

A system for capturing and recording the signals may include an antennae array disposed within an electromagnetic shield; a signal processor; and a memory coupled to at least one processor.

carrie

The antennae array may include at least one antenna comprising a conductive disk and an amplifier circuit board. The antennae array detecting and receiving subtle energy resonance signals from a source.

ross

The signal processor converts the analog signals into digital signals. Which are then stored into the memory.

carrie

The electromagnetic shield houses the antennae array; minimizes electromagnetic interference with the received signal.

ross

Such a controlled environment ensures the purity of the recorded subtle energy resonance signals for regeneration.

carrie

Regeneration is accomplished with a second antenna coupled to a digital regeneration device for short-range broadcasting affecting manifestations of subtle energy resonance in a subject.

ross

Boy, I’m as smacked as the water. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

What I love about this is the whole point of a patent is like—gotta make sure it’s mine before someone steals it!

ross

Right.

carrie

The idea that someone would be like—oh, dammit! [Ross laughs.] I was gonna [through laughter] do that!

ross

Yeah. Yeah. [Laughs.]

carrie

I was gonna play messages into the water using a complicated disk system but this guy got to it first! [Ross laughs.] On January 8th, 2019!

ross

Which is a good point. I think he’s less concerned about someone stealing this and more concerned about being able to say—I got a patent!

carrie

Right.

ross

After two years of waiting!

carrie

Right. And if you don’t know what a patent is, you might be impressed! All it means is this is mine. Not this works.

ross

Mm-hm.

carrie

Not this does the thing it says it does. Not this is regulated. Just—this is mine.

ross

And that so often happens with say, like, FDA approval. Which—

carrie

Mmm. Mm-hm.

ross

—he does not have for this device. But the FDA determined it won’t kill you.

carrie

Right.

ross

That doesn’t mean the FDA said—this is awesome! You should use it.

carrie

Right. Of course, this—ugh. What a beautiful flyer. This—this is one of those Orgone Pyramids—

ross

Oh, yeah. It looks like—I don’t know. That would be, like, Sedona, Arizona or something like that? We’ve got some red rocks in the background and wow! An inverted? Pyramid? This woman’s sitting in the middle of?

carrie

Yeah. Uh-huh.

ross

There’s a lot going on here.

carrie

Um, I love that they have five-sided—Orgon Pyramid that you can put over your entire bed for a mere— [Ross laughs.] $4,469.

ross

Can you imagine how gigantic that thing would be? To—

carrie

That’s what she said.

ross

—fit your entire king-sized bed? And it’s not like fitting it neatly ‘cause it’s a pyramid.

carrie

Yeah. If you want to buy me this, I’ll do it.

ross

Okay.

carrie

I’ll put it up, listeners. But you have to buy me a $4500 pyramid during a time when we all don’t have money.

ross

Are you talking to me or some unspecified listener?

carrie

An unspecified listener.

ross

Okay!

carrie

A rich, unspecified—Jeff Bezos. If you’re listening. Number one, treat your employees better. Number two, buy me a pyramid!

ross

Alright.

carrie

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Sorry to interrupt.

ross

Yeah? Uh-huh?

carrie

Oh, Ross! Hey!

ross

Oh hi! Carrie!

carrie

Hey! Oh, I’m glad you’re here. Um—

ross

Carrie, is it?

carrie

Yes. Mm-hm. Rossss…ton? Rosston?

ross

Yeah.

crosstalk

Carrie: Okay. Good to see you. Ross: That’s me. Mm-hm.

carrie

I’m so glad you’re here. Because I wanted to tell you how much I love mail.

ross

Okay. I’m glad we had this conversation!

carrie

And you’re the first male in the room. [Laughs fakely.]

ross

IIIII… see what you did there. Well, uh, how would you send mail? Do you just drop it off in a post office box?

carrie

Sometimes! But when I wanna get really professional? You know what I use?

ross

What do you use?

carrie

ShipStation. You know about ShipStation?

ross

Oh, yeah! Don’t they work with all of the major carriers, including USPS, FedEx, UPS and even Amazon Fulfillment to help you compare and choose the best shipping solution for you and your customer?

carrie

Yeah. You’re thinking of the right place.

ross

Okay. That’s what came to mind, but.

carrie

It’s—yeah. It’s a really good service and you encapsulated it so beautifully. I feel like… you could work for them. Like, that is a sentence they would write about themselves, it’s so spot on!

ross

Well, thank you!

carrie

Yeah! No prob! Y’know, as folks adapt to this changing world, we’re all going to be buying more stuff online than ever before.

ross

Yeah.

carrie

So if you’re an e-commerce seller—which you could be.

ross

Yeah! I bet a lot of our listeners are making cool stuff and sending it out into the world. And if they listen to our show, I’m sure it’s all legit. They’re not selling…

carrie

Crap?

ross

Yes.

carrie

Exactly! So. I’m glad you’re all doing that. But are you ready to meet the demands of our new delivery culture? Because you can be ready! With ShipStation.

ross

And no matter what you’re selling—whether you’re selling on Amazon or Etsy or your own website—ShipStation brings all your orders into one simple interface.

carrie

They even offer big discounts on shipping costs, so now any business can access the same postage discounts that are usually reserved for those large Fortune 500 companies. You’ll always know that you’re getting the best deal.

ross

And again, you’ve got that selection of all the major carriers. So right now—

carrie

Carrie-ers.

ross

Ohhhh!

carrie

Mm-kay!

ross

You can get your package ac-Ross country—

carrie

Okay! Okay! I like it!

ross

And right now, Oh No, Ross and Carrie Listeners can try ShipStation free for 60 days! When you use the offer code “Oh No.” Make sure your business is ready to meet the demands of delivery culture. Get started with ShipStation.com today!

carrie

Click on the microphone at the top of the home page and type in “oh no.” That’s ShipStation.com, then enter offer code “oh no.”

ross

ShipStation.com—make ship happen!

carrie

Get it? Okay! I think this might be our favorite person.

crosstalk

Carrie: At the entire expo. Ross: Ohhhhh… myyyyy.

carrie

Besides Linda Moulton Howe. Who—maybe he should marry.

ross

She might be right for him! Except he’s looking for a much younger lady.

carrie

Oh, is he?

crosstalk

Ross: Yes. That’s— Carrie: Has he said that?

ross

—part of it.

carrie

[Sighing quietly] Oh, god.

ross

You have to be hot, too.

carrie

Okay. Well.

ross

And much younger than him. Okay. This is—

carrie

FindingMyRepublicanGoddess.com.

ross

Dot com.

carrie

[Singing] Dot commm!

ross

What’s the guy’s name again?

carrie

Reverend William? I think?

ross

Okay, yeah. Reverend William.

carrie

[Sighing] Okay. So—

crosstalk

Carrie: So— Ross: So he’s this guy— [Carrie laughs.]

ross

Who’s a biiiiig Trump supporter? But also really into… spirituality and—

carrie

Astrology.

ross

Yeah.

carrie

Jesus. That’s part of it.

ross

Yeah. So he’s got this interesting intersection of Venn diagrams. But he also wants to find a beautiful woman to accompany him in his adventures and be his life partner.

carrie

Right.

ross

And he’s just looking for that Republican goddess. He’s gonna treat her so good.

carrie

Yup. And so he hands out these cards. On the front, we have three pictures of him that are fine. I mean, nothing’s wrong with him. But, y’know, they’re sort of like mall… y’know. Cheap headshot kind of pose.

crosstalk

Ross: Yeah. It’s fine. Carrie: Things.

ross

One of them is like—ooh! I wanna be an actor! Here’s my reel! Look at—y’know, look how I can express!

carrie

Right. Right.

crosstalk

Ross: I got my hands up in it. See? I—I’m funny! I can be a funny guy! Carrie: He’s doing—almost a chef’s kiss? Yeah.

ross

He looks like he’s, uh, tall. He’s wearing a—a hat in most photos.

carrie

I would guess he’s, like, 65? Ish?

ross

Yeah.

carrie

Uh, Caucasian gentleman. Balding. So on the front here, we have Copyright 2019. A lot happened in 2019.

ross

Sure did.

carrie

By FindingMyRepublicanGoddess.com, all rights reserved. Written consent is required to copy from this card.

ross

Okay. Well don’t copy from it.

carrie

What counts as copying from it? Am I copying from it right now? Oh, no! Photos taken in September 2019. If I handed you this card, it doesn’t necessarily mean I’m interested.

ross

Oh, wow. What’s the phrase? Uh, beggars can’t be choosers?

carrie

Uh-huh.

ross

He’s a chooser.

carrie

Yeah. I feel like he’s kind of taking pride in… there’s probably only one woman in the whole world who meets all my criteria.

ross

Right. And I’ve created my own dating website that’s just… for me.

carrie

Uh-huh.

ross

To find you.

carrie

And it’s one of—

ross

And everybody else gets to hear about this.

carrie

Right. And it’s one of those weeding technique quizzes? Where it’s like—here’s one question. If you chose the only right answer, you can continue.

crosstalk

Carrie: Anything else and I shove you out. Ross: Let’s do it, Carrie! Let’s—

carrie

Oh, I’ve done it. But we can do it again.

ross

Yeah. I didn’t get too far with this quiz. But this is just— [Laughs.] It’s too entertaining.

carrie

Some of them are so specific and some are ridiculously vague. Like… on the back of this, it says—do you love everyone, but love different people to different degrees? [Laughs.]

ross

Well I assume that’ll make sense to his Republican goddess.

carrie

Well it makes sense to me! It’s—

ross

Okay. Finding—

carrie

—everybody.

ross

FindingMyRepublicanGoddess.com. I am looking for a Republican goddess for marriage.

carrie

Oh, wow. Okay.

ross

This is my own personal website that I have created to help me find her. No other men are here, just me. If you are a single woman who might potentially be interested, then I invite you to take my virtual hand and let me guide you through this website. I’m a healthy 68. I’m looking for a woman born in any year from 1950 to 1995.

carrie

Oh, wow. Okay. Wait. 1950, though. That would be…

ross

So this year you would be turning… 70.

carrie

Yeah!

ross

Okay!

carrie

So you could be his age.

ross

But you could also be 25.

carrie

Right.

ross

Who takes excellent care of herself. I’m a natural-born US citizen residing in Los Angeles, California, USA. [Through laughter] As opposed to— [Carrie laughs.] —Los Angeles, California…

carrie

Los Angeles, Baja California. [Ross laughs.]

ross

I will consider relocating within the United States, but am unwilling to move to another country if the woman I’m looking for lives outside the United States.

carrie

No way. Trump is not the president of a different country.

ross

She must be willing and legally able to move to the United States to marry me and to live with me here. Yeah. ‘Cause, y’know, Melania could be, like, a Republican goddess, I suppose. As you read through this website you will notice that I’m an intense, complex man who thinks wayyyy outside the box. If my intensity, complexity, is too much for you—or if I think too far outside the box for you—well, then? We are not a match! I seek a woman who is likewise intense and complex. Not a mild or simple woman. Not a woman who thinks I wrote way too much here. [Carrie laughs.] She, too, thinks [through laughter] outside the box. The lady—oh man, I’m already disqualified. I’m also not a lady. I’m also not single. Uh, the lady—

carrie

Oh, you’re disqualified ‘cause you think he wrote too much there?

ross

Yes. [Laughs.]

carrie

Got it.

ross

In case those other factors—

crosstalk

Carrie: [Through laughter] Right. Right. [Laughs.] Ross: —had not already eliminated me.

carrie

You’re like, God, he’s verbose, though.

ross

I thought you— [Laughs.] [Carrie laughs.] The lady I am looking for will be inspired and excited by this website. I am very demanding. Oh, this guy. [Laughs.]

carrie

Clearly.

ross

In a good way—

carrie

Nope.

ross

—that will make my goddess wife-to-be incredibly happy. Beyond her wildest dreams.

carrie

God.

ross

And keep her wildly happy for life! I’m flexible on many things—but there are some things I am not flexible on. [Through laughter] Oh my god, this guy is—

carrie

It’s all the things, sir.

ross

I respect your time. Therefore, I will begin by asking you a series of eleven questions. [Laughs.] [Carrie laughs.] I wonder why he hasn’t found anyone yet!

carrie

Oh my god.

ross

To see if you meet my inflexible requirements.

carrie

Okay.

ross

He—at least he admits they’re inflexible. If not, we’ll say goodbye without a kiss.

carrie

Yes. Okay. So I know this kicks you off if you pick anything but the right answer? So are we going to guess what he wants the right answer to be so we can stay through the quiz?

ross

It’s a Choose Your Own Adventure novel. We can, uh, we can flip back to page 68—

crosstalk

Ross: —if we make the wrong decision. Carrie: Yeah. I guess that’s true.

ross

Uh, if you manage to make it through this gauntlet—that’s me editorializing—if you manage to make it through all eleven questions without a kiss-less goodbye? Then I will tell you a lot about myself, the relationship I want, and my demanding requirements.

carrie

There’s more after you pass. [Laughs.] [Ross laughs at length.] What a narcissist! [Laughs.] [Ross laughs.]

ross

I will tell you far, far more than you will see in the men’s profiles on any dating website.

carrie

I bet. And far more than you ever, ever could want.

ross

Mm-hm. Then you will have the opportunity to fill out a detailed contact form and submit it to me with your photos.

carrie

Of course.

ross

Wow. Oh man. It’s just—I—I’m trying to picture this in his mind. That like, I am so worthy. That you should jump through all these hoops to get to me.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

To meet my requirements. Okay. Sincerely, Reverend William. Click here to see question one. And in each page, he’s got like a different set of photos of himself? So—

carrie

Oh, yes! I remember these! These are very good. [Ross laughs.] So we’ve got another sort of mall set of headshots. Black background. Bright pink shirt. As if he is… about to be a background actor? In a low-budget film and they’ve just been told, uh, bright colors! No patterns!

ross

Yeah. And these are exactly like the, um, headshot photos that you send saying “I’m very funny but I can also be serious!”

carrie

But I’m also not that committed ‘cause these were $40.

ross

Okay. Question one of eleven. How do you feel about US President Donald Trump? One: I think Trump is a great president and I fully support him! Exclamation mark.

carrie

Okay.

ross

Two: I am open-minded about Trump and I would like to learn why he is a great president. [Carrie laughs.] Three: I dislike or am disgusted by President Trump and would never vote for him. “Something else” is option four.

carrie

Okay. Let’s go for two.

crosstalk

Ross: Yeah. I like that. I— Carrie: Let’s try it.

carrie

Push him a little bit.

ross

“Open-minded about Trump.”

carrie

Yes. I’m willing to listen to you speak some more.

ross

Okay! We made it to question two.

carrie

Oh, woohoo!

ross

That was allowed. Okay. Now he’s, uh, smiling with his hand clasped on his, uh, wrist in front of a lake. That’s nice. That’s a nice photo. Uh, also in his… I don’t know, trilby or whatever kind of hat that is. Fedora. What is your marital status? I have never been married. I am engaged to marry my boyfriend. [Carrie laughs.] I am married.

carrie

[Through laughter] Why would you be filling this out if you’re engaged?

ross

I am legally separated but not divorced from my husband. We should try that.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

I am legally divorced from the husband of my most recent marriage and I have not remarried. Ooh, that’s pretty good, too. I am a widow from my most recent marriage, which ended on the death of my husband and I have not remarried. [Laughs.] [Carrie laughs.] This guy’s got some really specific hang-ups here. I escaped from my husband’s harem? And my marital status is uncertain?

carrie

Pick that one. [Laughs.]

ross

Okay. Yeah. I’ll read the others, but we do have to pick that. Okay. I am legally separated or divorced from my wife, or something else.

carrie

Oohhh.

ross

I wanna try all of these!

carrie

Oh, yeah. So it’s a little jokey—

crosstalk

Carrie: —and he doesn’t want a bisexual woman. Ross: If you’ve been married to a woman—

ross

Okay. I’m gonna click on that first. And—

carrie

Okay. You’re not gonna get through.

ross

Uh, we are not a match. Thank you for your time. Good luck to you. Goodbye. No kiss. If you got here by mistake, click your back button! Oh, I got here by mistake. Okay. So now we’re gonna go for… “I escaped from my husband’s harem”?

carrie

Yeah.

ross

Oh, we are not a match. Oh, let’s see here.

carrie

Huh.

ross

I am a—

carrie

Well, I mean—I mean, I think “harem” is already a loaded term, but that does seem like… intentionally… exclusionary of people in certain circumstances.

ross

Sure, but yeah. He’s a particular man.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

Okay. The widow is allowed, as long as you, uh, have not remarried after your husband died. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

Yeah. What if you’re both? What if you—your husband died, then you got married— [Ross laughs.] —then you got a divorce?

ross

Well then you gotta click “something else.”

carrie

Oh, right.

ross

In which case… oh, we are not a match. Oh, wow!

carrie

Whoa!

ross

Okay. You have to fit within one of these categories. Alright. Let’s see… obviously he likes you to have never been married. Um.

carrie

Yeah. I think he’s not going to accept separated but not legally divorced.

ross

Okay. Let’s try that. Legally separated but not divorced? We are not a match.

carrie

Yes! I’m good at this.

ross

Legally divorced from the husband of my most recent marriage and I have not remarried?

crosstalk

Carrie: Is okay. Yeahhhh! Ross: Oh! Yeah! Okay! Alright.

ross

Cool. Well, we got through to question three. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

[Through laughter] Of eleven.

ross

What is your gender history?

crosstalk

Ross and Carrie: Oh, no.

ross

Option one:

carrie

Oh, no.

ross

I am female. My physical body is female and has been female for my entire life ever since my birth into this—

carrie

Oh, god.

ross

—lifetime from my mother’s womb. I am happy that I am female. Or, something else. Uh, through and through. Okay. Well, obviously that is our option. Alright. We are on question four—and, by the way, the—the photo here is, again, him in—in a hat. Different hat this time. And he’s doing the Macaulay Culkin. He’s got his—

carrie

Mmmm!

ross

Hands on his face—

crosstalk

Carrie: He can’t believe it! Ross: He’s going [gasps in surprise].

carrie

He can’t believe it! Wait.

crosstalk

Carrie: Question, though. Ross: I should’ve have put the shaving cream on! Yes?

carrie

[Laughs.] That last one—I assume nothing was okay except “I’m cis.”

ross

Of course.

carrie

Okay.

ross

Well, there’s two options. Yeah. And the other one’ll kick you out.

carrie

Oh, I see.

ross

Okay. So now we get to question four? And, uh, we get another collection of headshots.

carrie

Mmm!

ross

My goodness, this guy takes a lot of pictures of himself.

carrie

Yes.

ross

He’s in a blue paisley shirt and, uh—oh, he’s so serious and scholarly there. He’s wearing glasses and—oh, there’s he’s happy and praying with his eyes closed.

carrie

And then there’s one where he’s kinda going—eh, maybe! [Ross laughs.] [Goofy voice] I don’t know! I’m listening!

ross

Question four of eleven. Which of the following best describes your religion and/or spiritual beliefs? When I say, quote, “God,” unquote, I mean “a unique, omnipotent, omniscient being who loves us all unconditionally.” Well, that’s good to define.

carrie

Mm-hm.

ross

Option one: I don’t believe in God. I believe in science. I am either an atheist who believes no God exists or an agnostic who doesn’t know whether God exists. I believe that Jesus, Buddha and Krishna—if they actually lived—were historical figures who made claims that are either false or cannot be proven.

carrie

Wow! Okay!

ross

I mean… steel man statement of those beliefs. Good job. Okay. I click on that—op! We are not a match. Okay. I got here by accident. Let’s go back. Option two: I believe that Jesus Christ was the only Son of God. I believe that he died on the cross to save us from our sins and that the only path to salvation is to accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior, whereupon we are forgiven for our sins. I believe we only live once and that the reincarnation is believed by Hindus and Buddhists and by some Christians and Jews is a false doctrine. I do not know where Jesus was from [through laughter] ages 13 to 29, but—

carrie

Oh, was from ages 13—okay. Mm-hm.

ross

But I reject the idea that he spent time in India with Hindus and/or Buddhists. I believe that Krishna and Buddha were historical figures who were not sons of God. I acknowledge that Jesus instructs us to pray in the Lord’s Prayer, Matthew 6:9 and Luke 11:2, beginning with the two words “Our Father,” not “Jesus’s father” or “Our Lord’s father.” Nevertheless I do not believe I am a son, daughter, or child of God.

carrie

Oh, I do not believe. I am a…

ross

Yeah.

carrie

Oh.

ross

That’s interesting.

carrie

Okay. Yeah, ‘Cause I was gonna say—

ross

That’s all option number two.

carrie

Okay. Let’s not click yet. Okay. What’s three?

ross

I am a spiritual person who loves God with all my heart. I believe that we are all sons and daughters of God. I believe in reincarnation and—comma—I believe I have lived previous human lives and that my past life karma—both bad and good—impacts my circumstances today. I believe that Jesus, Buddha, and Krishna were spiritually enlightened masters who came to help us on our spiritual journey and to set inspiring examples of what we can ultimately become in our own, unique, divine way. If not in this lifetime, then in a future lifetime.

carrie

Okay. So I think that’s the ideal one.

ross

Right. That’s what—

carrie

Two might be acceptable.

ross

No, I’m guessing—okay. I’m gonna say two is unacceptable ‘cause you’re a little too hard-core Christian and not accepting of the Eastern spiritualities.

carrie

I agree that’s more likely. But I could see him being, like, okay.

ross

But just the—I’m picturing this potential woman out there is like, oh, I’m so excited! This is great! But—oh, I do not know where Jesus was from ages 13-29. I have very strong feelings about this. [Carrie laughs.] Okay. And then of course option four is “something else.” Okay. Let’s try option number two—I’m saying he’s gonna reject it.

carrie

I think he’s gonna reject it, too.

ross

Okay. Rejected!

carrie

Aw, damn.

ross

Alright. The only acceptable answer is—I’m a spiritual person who loves God with all my heart.

carrie

I would—I would love it if at some point the correct answer was “something else.”

ross

Yeah! [Both laugh.]

carrie

They’re just all traps.

ross

That would be good. Okay. [Laughs.]

carrie

What have we got? What’s making you laugh? [Laughs.] [Ross laughs.] Okay. [Laughs.] Alright.

ross

It’s worth getting through just for this photo.

carrie

We’ve got him standing in front of, like, the… lake at a yacht club?

ross

Yup. And, um, he’s got this, uh, like puckered lip face but his eyes are wide open like, “mmm!” Like—like he’s the Coppertone baby. [Carrie laughs.] Sixty years later.

carrie

I can’t believe my bottom’s out! [Ross laughs.]

ross

But the photo is cropped before we get to that part. And, uh, and then—okay. Him in front of the lake again. Uh—

carrie

How fun am I!

ross

Yeah. I got my mouth open and my hands out!

carrie

Yeah. He’s doing the “fish this big” pose. [Ross laughs.]

ross

Oh, this is so entertaining! [Carrie laughs.] Okay. Question five of eleven: how good is your English?

carrie

Oh, no!

ross

Well I don’t know if you could honestly answer this first one: I do not know English. I am using a translator to read this website. But I would like to learn English.

carrie

That should be okay.

ross

No, we are not a match.

carrie

Oh.

ross

Okay. Option two—yeah, right?

carrie

I’m willing to learn English.

ross

Right? I will—

carrie

I’m willing to learn your personal language to meet you personally?

ross

That—that should jump you right to the end! You wanna go to that much effort. Nope!

carrie

It’s literally a storyline in Love, Actually. [Laughs.]

ross

[Through laughter] Right. [Laughs.] Uh, option two: I know some basic English, but my vocabulary is very limited and my grammar and pronunciation are weak.

carrie

Should be fine. But nope.

ross

Nope.

ross

Rejected. I am fluent in English, although it is not my first language.

carrie

Okay. I’m gonna say he lets that one through.

ross

Me, too. Yeah. Okay. He does. And, of course, option four: my native language is English.

carrie

[Through laughter] It’d be funny if he’s, like, nope. Only the bilinguals.

ross

Okay, this one he’s in front of a window. He’s smiling at us. That’s fine. He should’ve used this photo for everything else.

carrie

Can I see it?

ross

No, Carrie. [Laughs.] [Carrie laughs.] I will not show you.

carrie

Okay.

ross

That’s—

carrie

Yeah. It’s funny, though. You grow to hate him— [Ross laughs.] —and then every photo of him you’re like—no. Mm-mm. [Ross laughs.] I see how gross you are in this one.

ross

Now I know who you are. Question six of eleven: which of the following best describes your citizenship and potential US immigration status?

carrie

Okay. So… okay.

ross

There’s a lot of options on this one.

carrie

Permanent resident-slash-amnesty. Okay. DREAMer—not okay.

ross

Okay. There’s eight options.

carrie

Oh my god! [Laughs.] Okay.

ross

One: I am a citizen of the United States. Two: I am a permanent resident of the United States. I—

carrie

Okay. I’m going to say he says that’s okay.

ross

I have a green card. Yeah. Let’s see. Yay! That’s allowed. Okay. We made it. Three: I am a citizen of one of the following countries: these are the US Visa Waiver and Visa-Free countries.

carrie

Ah.

ross

Andorra. Australia. Austria. Belgium. Bermuda. Brunei. Canada. Chile. Czech Republic. Denmark. Estonia. Finland. France. Oh, it goes on for a very long time. He lists them all out. Taiwan, with a Taiwanese National ID Number, or United Kingdom.

carrie

Wow.

ross

Those are allowed.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

Okay. Option—

carrie

So, yeah. He just wants you to be here quote-unquote “legally.”

ross

Right. Right. Of course. He needs to maintain his Trump talking points.

carrie

[Through laughter] Right.

ross

Does he have to go in and edit this when Trump makes bans? [Laughs.] [Carrie laughs.] Uh, option four: I have a US Visa that will not expire for at least one year. That’s allowed.

carrie

Okay.

ross

Uh, option five: I’ve been granted refugee status by the US Government.

carrie

I think he’s gonna say that’s okay.

ross

Okay. I’m gonna say—oh, you’re right! Okay! He did. I am living outside the United States in a country that is not listed above. I do not have a US Visa or other document to enter the US legally.

crosstalk

Carrie: Right. No. Of course not! Ross: Obviously he’ll reject that.

ross

I am living in a—

carrie

I couldn’t love you! [Laughs.] [Ross laughs. Both sigh, then laugh again.]

ross

I am living inside the United States illegally, but it’s not my fault—one day when I was under the age of 18, my parents—

carrie

DREAMers.

ross

—or other family members brought me into the United States illegally. Ever since that day, I have been living inside the United States. I am not a US Citizen. I do not have a US green card. I do not have a US Visa, and I have not been granted refugee status by the US Government. I have never been convicted of any felony crime in the United States.

carrie

I—I say he doesn’t let that in.

crosstalk

Carrie: Not okay. Ross: He does!

carrie

Oh, wow! Oh, he’s pro-DREAMers! Okay! Okay!

ross

Hey!

carrie

That’s better than… President Trump. I wonder if he’s just forgotten to update that since… Trump has been all anti-DREAMer.

ross

They can dream to be with him.

carrie

Yeah. [Laughs.]

ross

And, of course, the eighth option is: none of the above. Uh, alright. Let’s get through as a DREAMer! Alright. Question seven: [through laughter] okay. Now he’s got—again—more photos of him against a black background.

carrie

Mm-kay.

crosstalk

Carrie: He’s making faces. Ross: Hands up against his chins.

ross

Yeah. He’s smiling in one and he’s a little shocked in the other!

carrie

Yeah. So he’s got his—his fists up to his chin in the universal symbol for… “you’re about to tell me something exciting and I’m over-emphasizing how excited I am about it!”

ross

Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Question seven of eleven: what is your hairstyle?

carrie

Oh god.

ross

[Through laughter] Carrie just rolled her eyes hard. [Laughs.]

carrie

Bald.

ross

[Through laughter] Yeah! [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

Sails right on through, I’m sure.

ross

[Through laughter] Yeah. Oh my goodness. I would love to see a woman do the opposite. Y’know, some very attractive woman who is exactly what he wants? And he has to go through this gauntlet but he gets to question seven of eleven and it says what is your hairstyle and he has to say that he’s bald?

carrie

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah!

ross

Then he gets rejected?

carrie

Alright. I’ll do it.

ross

How would you feel, Reverend William? Alright.

carrie

Oh my god.

ross

Okay. So option one: my hair is naturally straight or wavy, but not curly.

crosstalk

Carrie: Okay. I see. Ross: My hair falls—

ross

—at least halfway down my neck or longer. I have no intention of having my hair cut short. I rarely use or never use hairspray. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

Hairspray, specifically?

ross

God, this guy’s hang-ups!

carrie

God. Okay, yeah. So obviously that’s what he wants. So that’s ideal.

ross

Option two: something else.

carrie

[Through laughter] Okay.

ross

[Through laughter] Option three: what I do with my hair is my business and no man has any right to demand that my hair look, feel, or smell a certain way.

carrie

[In a grumpy voice] I’m a feminist.

ross

That is the correct answer. Let’s see—

crosstalk

Ross: Uh, we are not a match. Oops. Carrie: Uh—yeah.

ross

Oops. How did I fall into that?

carrie

So you can’t have curly hair. Did he say natural hairstyle?

ross

Uh, my hair is naturally straight or wavy, but not curly.

carrie

So this is racist.

ross

He doesn’t want curly hair.

carrie

Right.

ross

Mm-hm.

carrie

But if you can’t even have straightened hair.

ross

Yeah. It has to be—

carrie

That—that goes beyond preference, sir.

ross

It has to be naturally straight or wavy and it has to be at least halfway down your neck or longer.

carrie

Uh, that’s, uh, a very gross and clever way to bury in there that you don’t want any women of African descent.

ross

My god.

carrie

Mm-hm.

ross

Okay. Yep. Now I’m—

carrie

For the most part.

ross

Now I’m to the, just, like, I hate you part of this, uh, photo evaluation.

carrie

Uh, oh! Yeah. Cool. What—oh! Oh. The question. I thought we were looking at the pictures—

crosstalk

Carrie: —which are also bad. Question eight of eleven: Ross: Oh, no. I’m looking—no. I’m looking at the pictures.

carrie

Do you have a trim waistline?

ross

Oh, god. Option one: Yes! My waistline is trim. I am not overweight and I have healthy, well-disciplined eating habits that keep my figure beautiful. [Carrie sighs exasperatedly.] Option two: Something else. [Carrie laughs.] Option three:

carrie

Put “something else” last. [Ross laughs.]

ross

Usually he does! But—

carrie

You don’t put “other” in the middle of your list.

ross

He’s mixing it up. Option three: what I do with my body is my business and no man has any right to demand that my figure look a certain way.

carrie

Okay.

crosstalk

Carrie: One and three. Ross: Obviously…

ross

You have to have a trim waistline.

carrie

Yeah. Right.

ross

You know what?

carrie

God.

ross

I—I think, uh, Will Ferrell could do a good sketch of this guy.

carrie

Oh, yeah.

crosstalk

Ross: Like, he’s—a bald, older Will Ferrell. Carrie: Yeah. He does have a Will Ferrell face.

carrie

Uh-huh.

ross

But with none of the charm. [Carrie laughs.] Okay. We’ve got another series of photos of him. We’ve got four photos. He’s in a—what is that?

carrie

Plaid?

ross

Plaid shirt. That’s right. Plaid. That’s the word.

carrie

Yeah. Ted Baxter’s favorite color.

ross

Alright. And half the time he’s got his hat on; half the time he’s taken it off. Uh, he’s making fun eyes at us. Aw, he’s just so fun.

carrie

He is so fun. And he’s outside. Oh, you’re happy about this question.

ross

Question nine of eleven: how do you feel about feminism? [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

If you haven’t figured it out from questions one through eight—

ross

Right? C’mon. Seriously. Like, if you’ve matched any of these other things why does this need to be said? [Deep breath] five options. One: I strongly support today’s feminists.

carrie

No.

ross

That’s a trap.

carrie

Bad.

ross

[Admiral Ackbar voice] That’s a trap! [Laughs.] Question two: when a woman accuses a man of sexual harassment or sexual assault or rape, the woman should be believed. And then man should be disbelieved. Women should automatically beat men in court regardless of the facts. Men and boys should be punished today for bad things that other men—including men who are long dead— [Carrie laughs.] —did to women, including women who are long dead.

carrie

So he has a very good understanding of the scientific perspective. He was able to articulate that as if he owned it. This one he has no idea what’s going on.

ross

Yeah. That is a strawman. Uh, that is a strawwoman. [Carrie laughs.] Not a steel woman. Okay. Option three: I believe that women should have the right to vote; the right to equal treatment under the law, including inheritance and ownership of land; and the right to equal pay for equal work.

carrie

Okay.

ross

Hey! Alright, there’s some good in there.

ross

Those goals were achieved a long time ago—

carrie

Oh.

ross

In the United States.

crosstalk

Carrie: Okay. So no ERA. Ross: However—

ross

However, women and men are fundamentally different and balance between male and female is necessary for creating a happy, peaceful world. Today’s feminism is trying to destroy that balance and that is evil.

carrie

So his equal pay for equal work would be that old, like—oh, well actually if you look at the data in a different way…

ross

Mmmm.

carrie

Women do make as much. Which is probably true in some cases, but is not true across the board.

ross

Ah, okay. And, uh, and saying there’s just certain work that a man’s supposed to do.

carrie

Right. Right.

ross

Okay. I’m sure that one would get us through. Option four: I am very feminine, but I am not a feminist! I want to surrender into the arms of a—

crosstalk

Carrie: Ew! Surrender? Ross: Strong and—

ross

Yep! Into the arms of a strong and wonderful man.

carrie

Fuck off!

ross

[Through laughter] Give my femininity to him totally and make him—

carrie

Ew!

ross

—happy as he makes me happy.

carrie

What a—no. [Laughs.] [Ross laughs.]

ross

Option five: something else.

carrie

Ugh!

ross

So what—I guess options three and four will both work?

carrie

He’s the kind of person who makes sure “obey” is in his wedding vows.

ross

Ugh!

carrie

Gross. I’m gonna make Drew say “obey.” No I’m not. [Laughs.] I would never.

ross

Yeah. I have officiated, uh, quite a few weddings now, and I don’t think any of them have included the word “obey” and I’m pretty sure I would, uh, insist on striking that out.

crosstalk

Carrie: Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Ross: Yeah, no.

carrie

So gross.

ross

No obeying going on.

carrie

So gross.

ross

Alright. We got to page ten. [Laughs.] We’ve—

carrie

If I were officiating a wedding and I saw obey, I’d just say—oh hey! And oh heyyy! Him. [Laughs.] [Ross laughs.] That’s what you’re vowing to do. You see him, you “oh hey!!!”

ross

Okay. Okay.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

Here we’ve got—

carrie

[Odd voice] Helllooo!

ross

[Through laughter] —question ten. We’ve got, uh… oh. Him in a blue shirt. He’s thoughtful.

carrie

Okay. Yeah. That horizontal photo is the closest he’s come to an interesting picture.

ross

Yeah. You know what? That’s pretty good. Go with that one.

carrie

He could’ve written a book that is… on an endcap at FedEx Office and that would be his author photo.

ross

Yeah. That’s all fine and good. For this question, I am defining “problem substance” as any of the following:

carrie

Oh, cool.

ross

Alcohol beverages. Tobacco. Cannabis. Marijuana.

carrie

Sure.

ross

Non-prescription recreational drugs.

carrie

Mm-hm.

ross

Mind-altering drugs—with or without prescription.

carrie

Mind—okayyyyy?

ross

Wow. Okay.

carrie

So, yeah. Uh, that’s a lot of things.

ross

And highly addictive drugs, with or without prescription. But yeah, mind-altering drugs with or without prescription. That’s, uh, a pretty broad, uh—

carrie

Yeah. That’s… most drugs?

ross

Okay.

carrie

Right? I mean, like, even…

ross

Right.

carrie

Aspirin is going to affect, like…

ross

Yeah. Yeah. How do you define—well, he defines “mind-altering,” I guess. Oh man. Can you imagine the first date with this guy? Where he re-asks you all these questions? [Laughs.]

carrie

Oh, god. And also—also—ibuprofen? Have you ever seen the study? Ibuprofen is as, um, effective as an SSRI at—

ross

No!

carrie

Uh, yeah. At calming depression for like—it’s like three hours or whatever? It’s very short-lived.

ross

Whoa!

carrie

But because it’s so bad for your stomach they just can’t.

ross

Oh.

carrie

Use it that way?

ross

That’s crazy!

carrie

But, yeah! If you’re taking ibuprofen… that just happens as a side effect.

ross

That’s wild!

crosstalk

Carrie: Yeah! Ross: Okay. Interesting.

ross

Question ten of eleven: which of the following best describes your use-slash-consumption of problem substances? Four options:

carrie

Very high!

crosstalk

Ross: One: Carrie: Right on through. [Laughs.]

ross

[Through laughter] I have never used or consumed any problem substance.

crosstalk

Carrie: Okay. Ross can’t say that! Ross: Two: I—

ross

I have tried, used, or consumed one or more problem substances to a limited extent. But I never became dependent upon or addicted to any problem substance—which is capitalized each time. Capital “P,” capital “S.” [Carrie laughs.] I have been free from all Problem Substances for more than three years, except that I might occasionally drink alcoholic beverages socially. Option three: I overcame a challenge with Problem Substances. Have now been 100% free-slash-sober from all Problem Substances for more than—

carrie

Ten year!

ross

—ten years!

carrie

Yeaow! Shit!

ross

You got it!

carrie

I knew it. If you’re an addict you gotta go a decade before you can date this guy. Odd!

ross

And option four: something else. Okay. Well, then, uh, let’s see if the ten-year one passes? It does! Okay!

carrie

Okay.

crosstalk

Ross: Hey, we got— Carrie: You gotta get that—

carrie

—sweet ten-year chip and then you get to marry this dumbass. [Laughs.] [Ross laughs.]

ross

I got ten years sober and all I got was this Republican asshole. [Laughs.] [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

Oh, god.

ross

With his thumbs up on question eleven, wearing his purple shirt again.

carrie

Geez-o.

crosstalk

Ross: Purpley-pink shirt. Carrie: What book has he—

carrie

—got next to him in that photo?

ross

That is a very good question. I don’t think I can make it out. It’s like, juuust… low-res enough.

carrie

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

ross

That I can’t quite make out the title.

carrie

We should share that. Get our—get our online sleuths on it.

ross

Yeah. You’ll figure that out.

carrie

Yeah. Which, um, which question page is this one?

crosstalk

Ross: Eleven! Final question! Carrie: Eleven. Okay. So—

carrie

Go to page eleven and tell us what book that is. We can’t be bothered. [Laughs.] [Ross laughs.]

ross

Which also means you have to click through all this. You’re… welcome? Okay. Question eleven of eleven! Which of the following best describes your physical and mental health?

carrie

Mm-kay. Very poor. Right on through.

ross

Only two options:

carrie

She’s just like me.

ross

I am physically and mentally healthy. Most of the time I feel pretty good! Or excellent! And I have plenty of energy. I do not suffer from any serious physical illness. I do not suffer from chronic pain. I am not disabled. [Sighs.] I do not—

carrie

Ugh!

ross

Fuck this guy. I do not suffer from any mental disorder or serious depression. Longing for your beloved is not depression. [Carrie sighs disgustedly.] I am not under the care of a psychiatrist and I do not take any psychiatric medicine—

carrie

Wow.

ross

I do not have, need, or want a service animal.

carrie

What?!

ross

Or—something else.

carrie

What a piece of trash. [Ross laughs.]

ross

Aaand… we made it! We got to the end. We get—

carrie

What did we click?

ross

Another— [Laughs.] [Carrie laughs.] Obviously, the first one.

carrie

Does “something else” let you through on a sort of, uh, y’know, temporary… “I’m gonna let these people through and see what happens”?

ross

We are not a match.

carrie

Oh! Wow!

ross

No—

carrie

Jesus!

ross

No kiss goodbye. After all that, I don’t get a kiss goodbye?

carrie

And you might’ve been eliminated ‘cause you like use a wheelchair.

ross

Yep!

crosstalk

Carrie: What— Ross: Oh, yeah.

ross

He doesn’t want someone in a wheelchair. Are you kidding?

crosstalk

Carrie: God. Ughhhhh! [Groans at length.] Ross: Alright. So we get to his smiling face again.

ross

Okay! You’ve made it through the eleven questions of things about which I’m not flexible. On anything else, I’m flexible—to varying degrees, depending on what it is. [Laughs.] [Carrie laughs.] Carrie has dead eyes.

carrie

I hate him. [Ross laughs.] I hate him.

ross

Now I will tell you a whole lot about myself. About the relationship I want, and about the lady I am seeking.

carrie

No thanks!

ross

I will start with a video message below!

carrie

You will start? [Ross laughs.] You will start?!

crosstalk

Ross: Then I will— yeah. Carrie: How long have we just been going through this?

carrie

Like, twenty minutes.

ross

Then I will take you through the following pages. There’s eleven pages! Introduction: additional basics of our relationship. Divine resonant tantric partnership. [Laughs.] [Carrie laughs.] I love this just for Carrie’s expressions.

carrie

Ugh.

ross

About me: Generally. Uh, my goals! My weaknesses and challenges. Oh, I wanna read that! Character references from women who know me well?!

carrie

That I’ve already seen and I was gonna tell you is my favorite part of this site.

ross

Yeah?!

carrie

‘Cause it’s clearly women that he cajoled into doing this and they can’t think of what to say and it’s like—

ross

Oh, wow.

carrie

—when someone’s in a bad play and you have to be, like, I loved your costume!

ross

Yeah. Yeah.

carrie

It’s like that.

ross

Oh wow.

carrie

It’s like—I live next door to William. Sometimes he comes over and feeds my cat. He’s never fucked it up. [Ross laughs.] [Laughs.] It really is like that.

ross

[Sighs.] About you. That’s interesting. What is “about you”? Vedic astrological compatibility. Politics. And contact me. Well, this sounds great, though I think we’ve probably spent too long sharing this with our audience.

carrie

I wonder if anyone has figured out his last name. Because… I’d love to give him a call.

ross

There’s more photos. Oh, wow. This is a long one. Oh, this is great. On his “weaknesses and challenges”?

carrie

Mm-hm.

ross

Problem one: at my age, with my large goals and a lifetime of hard work, I should’ve already been successful! But I have not yet attained the material success I want. [Carrie laughs.] I cannot promise you material success, but our tantric partnership will be a gigantic help.

carrie

Oh, listen. [Laughs.] I’m a millennial. I know what it is to suffer financially.

ross

Mm-hm.

carrie

Uh, but—

ross

Avocado toast.

crosstalk

Carrie: Avocado toast has fucked me. Ross: It’s expensive! [Laughs.]

carrie

And so I don’t—I don’t like to wish economic hardship on anyone. [Ross laughs.] But for twenty minutes now, you have run my good favor into the ground, sir. And I am— [Ross laughs.] [through laughter] —pretty happy that you are not financially successful.

ross

If you want someone who has already made his material fortune, I am not your man. [Carrie exclaims.] Wow. Problem two—although it is never my intention, I scare some people. I am outspoken and think independently and some people are frightened by that. I have been nonviolent my entire life. I do not intentionally hurt anyone’s feelings. But I have made mistakes. Whenever I become aware that I’ve hurt someone, I apologize. Yet sometimes people need to hear truth that they don’t wanna hear.

crosstalk

Carrie: Mmmmm. Mm-hm. Ross: Oh, god. This guy is so horrible!

ross

You’re such a horrible person! If any of the material presented here scares you then I am not your man. Problem three: aww. Some people hate me and ridicule me. I do not hate them back. I never ridicule anyone.

carrie

True.

ross

Actually, I love everyone unconditionally. [Through laughter] Unconditionally! I don’t think you know what that term means. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

Oh, yeah. Indeed.

crosstalk

Carrie: Also— Ross: He’s all about conditions.

carrie

[Through laughter] Right?! Uh, and also—I don’t ridicule anyone—what—by name?! Just by category. I ridicule people categorically. Feminists.

ross

Right. Right. [Laughs.] Right.

crosstalk

Ross: Some of these people have defamed me— Carrie: Christians of a certain stripe.

ross

—with vicious lies. If you believe attacks on someone character’s without confirming the truth of the matter, then I am not your man. Wowwww. Oh god, so many photos of this guy. Yep. Here’s the character references. “Mark was my boyfriend from November 2012 through March 2013. I can—"

carrie

Oh, wow. Four months. Okay.

ross

“I can vouch for his outstanding character in every respect. Mark is a perfect gentleman.”

carrie

Huh. So that makes me think he wrote that and said—do you agree with this?

ross

Yes.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

Right. Especially, like… filling this out like your LinkedIn profile.

carrie

I can’t wait for you to find the one that has brackets.

ross

November 2012 to March 2013. Okay. Uh, we’ve got a few [through laughter] brackets here. [Laughs.]

carrie

There’s a particular one where a whole sentence is in brackets?

ross

I met Mark on an international dating website in 2017. I traveled to Los Angeles and stayed with him for approximately two weeks. Our relationship is excellent. Bracket: [Unfortunately, due to problems on my end, unrelated to Mark, we had to end our romance; but we remain friends.] End bracket. [Carrie laughs.] Oh yeah. She wrote that.

carrie

[Through laughter] Well, yeah. The bracket indicates he added this.

ross

Right. Yes.

carrie

Right.

ross

Yes. Yep.

carrie

But I love that it’s blaming everything on her. So, like, publish?

ross

What a miserable person!

carrie

Mm-hm.

ross

How are you so miserable?

carrie

I hope he listens to this.

ross

Oh my god.

carrie

I hope he’s been an Oh No, Ross and Carrie listener for nine years. [Ross laughs.] And this wakes him up.

ross

Maybe I’m not the right kind of person. Wow. Okay. Well, I’ve—we’ve— [Laughs.] We’ve spent way too much time with this guy. But this is wild. And it goes on!

carrie

Listen. Listeners. Don’t doxx Reverend William. Don’t publish his full name and email and phone number. But if you find it… and you want to send it to me… I’ll call him. I’ll call him and be like, what are you doing.

ross

Uh, alright. And if you get through all this and you did not support Bernie Sanders or Hilary Clinton in the 2016 presidential election—

carrie

Oh, for God’s sake.

ross

—then you can go to the Contact Me page and there ya go. You can fill it out. Yeah. Be nice, people. Don’t—don’t sink to his level.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

Uh, but wow.

carrie

Oh! For goodness sake.

ross

Oh no! And then when you—oh no! This is ridiculous! [Carrie laughs.] Okay. This is the Contact Me page—here he is with his thumbs up again.

carrie

Uh-huh. Oh my god! There’s more text! [Ross laughs.] Wait, what do I have to fill out now?

ross

[Through laughter] There’s forms where you answer—

crosstalk

Ross: —to each and every one of these questions! Carrie: Oh my god, it’s like—

carrie

Essay! Short-answer essays!

ross

It’s easier to apply for unemployment… than to fill this out. [Carrie laughs.] Oh my god! Oh, and you’ve gotta upload five photos!

carrie

Taken in the last…

ross

They can be .jpg, .jpeg with an “E,” or .png.

carrie

Mm.

ross

Wow. You know what? Actually—

carrie

Does it say taken in the last so-and-so years?

ross

I approve of this restriction. “Do not attempt to upload huge photo files; the maximum image file size is 2MB.”

crosstalk

Carrie: Yeah. Okay. Ross: That’s reasonable.

carrie

You’re right. That’s the first—

crosstalk

Carrie: —reasonable limit he’s set. Ross: I want my woman to be able to know how to resize a photo.

carrie

[Through laughter] Okay. Fair.

ross

That’s all I ask. [Laughs.] Prove you are not a robot? If you did all of that, you have to— [Carrie laughs.] Oh, interesting! 7+2=blank!

crosstalk

Carrie: Ahhhhh! Question mark? Ross: Now we know what that—

ross

[Through laughter] Now we know what that presentation was! [Laughs.] [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

Oh my god.

ross

God bless you and God bless America. Well, God bless you, too, Reverend William.

carrie

Good golly.

ross

Is he a real Reverend?

crosstalk

Carrie: Of course not. Ross: Carrie, I need you to look this up. [Laughs.]

carrie

I mean, well… you can get your—are you Universal Life Church?

crosstalk

Carrie: Alright. You’re a Reverend. So. Sure. Ross: Yeah. I am. Yeah.

ross

I like to think I’m an “ir”-reverend. [Carrie laughs fakely.] Heh.

carrie

Heh.

ross

Well that was—

carrie

We didn’t intend to—

crosstalk

Ross: Totally off— Carrie: [Through laughter] Tell you the entire quiz, but.

ross

That was off-topic for Oh No, Ross and Carrie but we hope you enjoyed it. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

Wellll… listen. [Laughs.]

ross

Yeah. Where we were?

crosstalk

Ross: What were we doing? Carrie: What else were we—oh!

carrie

We wanted to mention a couple things. While we’re on the subject of the Conscious Life Expo. So. There was a video by All Gas, No Brakes that’s real funny that you make a cameo in.

crosstalk

Ross: Oh, very briefly! Carrie: That takes place at the Conscious Life Expo.

ross

Yeah! Yeah! Check out that YouTube channel. All Gas, No Brakes. It’s really fun. It’s just a really quirky covering of the Conscious Life Expo. And yeah, you can very briefly see me walk around in the back as I’m trying to take in all this stuff. And he interviews the Reverend William about his Republican goddess. It’s pretty hilarious.

carrie

And Shakuntali!

ross

Yes! Who…

carrie

[Conspiratorially] Mm-hm? Mm-hmmmm? Yes, go on! Yes! Ross! Ross, is it? You were going to say…? Go on! Here we go!

ross

You will hear an interview with! Uh, Carrie has reached out to Shakuntali. It’s a wild story—

carrie

Mm-hm!

ross

About—

carrie

Mm-hm!

ross

Just setting up the interview!

carrie

Mm-hm. That’s right.

ross

Is a crazy story, which I got regular updates on. Yeah, look forward to that!

carrie

Look forward… to that.

ross

That was wild. But, uh, but he, uh, he asked her some fun questions as well. Uh, yeah! Check that out.

carrie

Speaking of All Gas, No Brakes—as you were watching it I realized, oh, it reminds me of Victor Berger’s editing style and I realized—I don’t think I’ve mentioned him on this show. He’s an amazing editor who takes pre-existing footage of… fringe characters.

ross

Mm-hm.

carrie

Doing their thing. And then edits them in these—this very quirky, weird way that’s very… idiosyncratic. And, um…

ross

Yeah. Very cool. I’ll have to watch more of that now.

carrie

Oh, I have to recommend it to our listeners. Victor Berger.

ross

On Sunday when I came back, I—I wanted to go to two lectures. And… we’ve already told you about the reverse audio one. But I was also really excited to go see Zadok “Ra” Osiris.

carrie

Mm!

ross

Talk about Tesla, ET technology, and Epic Laser.

carrie

Oh, right!

ross

And I thought, oh, this sounds amazing. This all sounds good.

carrie

I saw his table a number of times but never saw him behind it.

ross

Okay. I did see him behind—he’s—uh, really interesting-looking character. So… Zadok, and then in quotes “Ra,” Osiris, is this man—I would assume in his 70s? Uh, and he’s got a long and very, like, styled beard that—it’s long but it runs down close to his face so it doesn’t escape horizontally. Very animated character. I saw him earlier trying to hit up this young blond lady. Y’know. Maybe just engaging her in conversation. But still, he was like, obviously—

crosstalk

Ross: —like, I’m talking to a pretty young lady. Yeah. Carrie: Very engaging her? [Laughs.]

ross

Yeah. Very engaged. Right. He would walk all over the convention so I’d see him here and there and he’s wearing a bright blue-and-gold robes? That—

carrie

Ooooh!

ross

Uh, if I had to guess were, like, uh, an African styling?

carrie

Okay.

ross

And he had kind of that, uh, short hat on his head as well.

carrie

Ah. Right. What is his heritage? Is he a person of African descent?

ross

Just looks like a white guy.

carrie

A white guy. Okay.

ross

Yeah. He was sitting behind his booth when I saw him and there was a little sign, had a picture of him. And it said—this was really confusing—you can get an Akashic Record Reading—

carrie

Okay.

ross

And that makes perfect sense. [Carrie laughs.] But here’s what confuses me. Okay? It’s $140 per hour…

carrie

Okay.

ross

For 40 minutes. Or $70 per hour for 20 minutes. [Laughs.]

carrie

Okay…?

ross

So is that per hour just confusing— [Laughs.]

carrie

What?!

ross

I’m guessing you pay $140, you talk to him for 40 minutes. You pay $70, you talk to him for 20 minutes. That’s my guess? Or— [Laughs.]

carrie

Oh, interesting. I think you have to do the math. So what is it, again?

crosstalk

Ross: $140 per hour— Carrie: 140…

ross

For 40 minutes, which would mean, essentially… uh, 2/3 of… 140.

carrie

Right. Yeah. Uh… okay. So 280 divided by three…

ross

140 times .667… alright. We’re talking, like, $93.38. [Laughs.] [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

I hope and then he’s, like, oh, I only take exact cash.

ross

[Laughs.] Or you only have $70/hour for 20 minutes, so that’s divided by three, that’s $23.34 if we round up. So I would love to haggle that.

carrie

Wait. So that’s the better deal?

ross

Oh, yeah! It’s much better! Because it’s $70/hour. So it’s half the rate of before.

crosstalk

Carrie: Right. So you should—right. So even if you got— Ross: That’s a huge cost savings. So you should sign up—

carrie

—three of those—

ross

I’m almost certain that he added the per hour by accident not understanding what that meant.

carrie

Oh my goodness.

ross

But I would love to haggle that afterwards. Like, oh, no, actually, if you look at your sign, it says that it’s— [Carrie laughs.] $70/hour for 20 minutes, and that’s 1/3 of an hour. So I’m paying you 1/3 of $70.

carrie

And don’t worry—I brought nickels.

ross

And I never got to fully explore this connection, but next to him there was, uh, this Epic Lasers. It seems like they were sharing a booth. So you had Zadok “Ra” Osiris and his Akashic Record Readings, but also this Epic Lasers. Like, ooh, what’s that all about? So yeah! This talk sounded really excited! I wanna go learn about both of these things. So when I, uh, got there on Sunday—by the time I got up into this, uh, ballroom—which was kind of similar to the room where I saw David John Oates—there was, uh, this guy up there talking about these… Epic Lasers. And I was like, where’s Zadok “Ra” Osiris?

carrie

Mm-hm.

ross

And I was—I’d say like—

carrie

I would recognize Zadok “Ra” Osiris.

ross

Right! Yeah! With his flamboyant clothing and—y’know. There’s no missing that guy. And I was twelve minutes late, but he wasn’t even there! So I was like—did it get cancelled? Like, his part of the talk? Or did he talk for five minutes and then run? [Carrie laughs.] Like, what happened to—I wanna know more about him! He’s such an interesting character! Uh, but no. Instead it was this, uh, not to, uh, perpetuate a stereotype—but kind of a Poindexter-ish sort of fellow, uh, without any of the charisma that you would expect from—

carrie

Ah. Yeah.

ross

—somebody who would be leading a religious movement or something. He was very much talking about his research with these Epic Lasers and how great they are and so they’re in the infrared spectrum at precisely 980 nanometers. And he said, don’t get fooled by all of these, y’know, 808 nanometer rays.

carrie

Oh, hate those.

ross

You know what? Actually, he said something kind of nice in respect to that. He said—this spectrum is precisely calibrated to… uh, get past the melanin in your skin. So, y’know, people will get these infrared lasers and they’ll try to use them on people maybe of African heritage and they’ll just be totally ineffective. You want to get one that works best for all people.

carrie

But I figured out how to tap that market, too!

ross

Hey, well, y’know, I like that he was trying to be inclusive in this even if it was a little farfetched. Uh, but yeah! It was interesting. Definitely I—this guy could blind by science well, because my mind would just naturally tune out, first of all, just ‘cause it was this drone the way it was delivered. Very uncompelling. But also he’s bringing up charts and he’s talking about scans and research that he’s done. Though he mentioned at one point, like, all this research was done before we had powerful computers. I’m thinking like, what? Early ‘90s? Or earlier? Like… what, you haven’t done any new research and this is like your line of business? In all this time? Anyways. Uh—

carrie

Did you even get a patent in 2019?

ross

[Laughs.] Right. Uh, so yeah. I didn’t get anything about Tesla or ET technology, but a lot about these Epic Lasers. One of my favorite parts was he brought up this slide and it was showing this graph of laser efficacy. And he was saying that the wavelengths are not what was available during Biblical times, according to our friends at NASA. It’s like, wait a second. So you’re telling us that NASA is agreeing that in Biblical times—

carrie

There were lasers?

ross

Not lasers, per se. But the radiation at that spectrum was naturally coming through our atmosphere from the sun. But he says that now, our atmosphere is blocking this helpful radiation which enhances your body’s natural ability to repair itself. So I could immediately sense—oh, I see what’s going on here ‘cause you have these biblical accounts of people like Methuselah who lived to 969 years.

carrie

Ah, right, right, right!

ross

And Noah lived to, like, his 900s as well.

carrie

Yeah. 900 something yeah.

ross

Yeah. Adam, 930. Y’know. You had all these people lived exceedingly long lives. And, um—

carrie

Allegedly.

ross

Right. And so the idea was that you had this antediluvian canopy in the sky that somehow let in just the right radiation.

carrie

Ah… I see!

ross

And that’s why they—they healed so well and lived so long. So this is what you can, essentially, use. So I’ll save you the boring details. It was a boring talk. But the bottom line is—if you wanna buy one of the lasers themselves? Uh, it’s gonna cost ya $18,900.

carrie

Oh my god!

ross

Yeah.

carrie

He only needs to sell one of those a year!

ross

Right?

carrie

To feel like he’s got a good side gig! [Ross laughs.] Wow.

ross

He has a practice where he has sessions where you pay $75 and then he helps you with your knee and then, y’know, your shoulder now hurts the most so he helps you with that. And sometimes it’s, like, $85. But, uh, anyways. These are the Epic Lasers. And the FDA cleared them enough times that they say now, y’know, his devices are automatically cleared. Yay! Again—they’ve determined, oh, yeah, he’s not hurting anyone with these low-level infrared. Uh, which—

carrie

But I’m sure if he got a different device they wouldn’t just clear it ‘cause it’s made by him.

ross

Yeah. I’m sure the actual clearance is just—okay. You keep filing for these things every other year and… yeah. It’s that same type of device. You’re fine. You’re not hurting anybody. But they’re also not blanket endorsing it, like—this works!

carrie

Right. Of course.

ross

And speaking of which—yes! If it’s in infrared, it is lower energy than visible light. But it’s also higher-energy than 5G signals still.

carrie

Oh, right!

ross

Just putting that out there. [Carrie laughs.] So, uh—

carrie

Which is COVID. Right?

ross

Correct.

crosstalk

Carrie: It is COVID-19? Ross: I give up. Yes.

carrie

No, it’s not true!

ross

That’s not true! It has nothing to do with it! Those are completely unrelated! Uh, there was a great picture online someone had shared of, um, the 1918 Pandemic. And an etching of a 1G radio tower? [Laughs.] In the background. [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

That’s great.

ross

Uh, after that I had a little bit of time to mill about before the reverse speech talk, so I wandered down to the lower level, which I hadn’t seen before.

carrie

Oh yeah! Welcome to the lower level.

ross

Yeah! So I got to see some of the things Carrie was talking about down there. A lot more interesting booths. But the place where I got stuck was the Happy Science booth.

carrie

Oh, uh-huh!

ross

That’s one that we could definitely do a deeper unpack of. So I won’t talk about it too much. Except that the guy sort of engaged me in conversation and I would either have to be rude and not talk to him? Or stay and talk for the next twenty minutes. Which is what I ended up doing. And there were three people at the booth. Uh, the man who was in front of the booth, who stopped me and talked to me. And then a man behind the booth and a woman behind the booth. And they both kept trying to engage. They were happy I was there and talking. The—the man behind the booth, in particular, kept trying to, like, add his little spin on points or throw in an additional little bit of clarification or insight. And the guy in front of the booth—yeah! Kept shutting him down.

carrie

What’s with these people doing this?

crosstalk

Ross: I know! Carrie: That’s the third example—

carrie

—at this conference.

ross

Right! And it was like, no, no. Let me do the talking here. I’ve got it.

carrie

Wow.

ross

And it’s not like he spoke better English or anything! Both of them had pretty thick accents. It was just like—hey. I’m the salesman.

crosstalk

Ross: I’ve finally got someone. Carrie: I’m the expert.

ross

Yeah. Let me do this.

carrie

Wow.

ross

And, uh, he was wearing something I would call, like, a Carl Sagan jacket?

carrie

Ooh! Okay!

ross

Yeah. Just that kind of, uh, texture and color.

carrie

Corduroy?

ross

Right. He’s telling me about how all of these wonderful… pieces of ancient wisdom had come from their founder, Ryuho Okawa.

carrie

Oh, yeah. I saw books by this person floating around.

ross

The founder and discoverer of Happy Science. Yeah. They—they had people going as emissaries from the booth and just blanket-handing out books. By this guy. Okay. How many books would you guess that he has written? Or let’s just say… how many titles has he written?

carrie

64

ross

Over 2,600 titles!

carrie

Ummmmm…

ross

Of religious, spiritual, and self-development teachings.

carrie

So we’ve got an LRH situation here. Where either he’s, like, on pills churning out a bunch of random gobbledygook? Or people are repackaging things and taking this writing and moving it around and adding this other thing and now you’ve got kind of an anthology of previous writings, but it’s got a new title. And then you move it around again.

ross

Yeah. Right.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

Exactly. So I actually did read all of them—

crosstalk

Ross: —in preparation for this episode. Naw. Carrie: No you didn’t. That’s a lie!

carrie

And I could spot it!

ross

Gah! She could see the twinkle in my eyes. Yeah. He’s sold—

carrie

[Through laughter] No, I just—no one could do that! [Laughs.] [Ross laughs.]

ross

As if, like, I actually did and I just hid it from you. Even if I started reading… that moment in early February when I met those people—I would not be done!

carrie

Probably not!

ross

Nope! I could not keep up with Ryuho Okawa. Anyway, yeah. So this comes from Japan. I assume he is the discoverer and founder. These books have sold over 100 million copies worldwide; translated into 31 languages; and, um, I was, uh, I was stuck there for a very long time talking to them. And he was walking me through some of these books. He gave me a couple for free. I bought another one for $10 and, uh, so now— [Carrie laughs.] —I’ve got some reading materials to, uh, to learn the true words spoken by Buddha. The nine dimensions. Unveiling the laws of eternity and the laws of the sun. Uh, they were—

carrie

That’s a lot of laws.

ross

Yes. Right. Uh, but y’know, this guy’s figured out everything—everything! Um… [Carrie laughs.] And so, uh, yeah. I wanted to throw them a little bit, uh, their way and get an extra book out of this. So I’ve got some reading material. And he was very excited about me. At one point he asked me, uh, so are you Christian or do you come from a Christian background? I said, well I do, but actually I’m an atheist now. And—ohhhh. Goodness the conversation changed. His face dropped. He looked very concerned for me.

carrie

Awwww.

ross

Oh, this—this is not good! There are very spiritual things! And so this guy—

carrie

Awww.

ross

All of a sudden it changed his pitch. Like, oh. And I wasn’t sure if it was more of a—we need to help you or you may be un-helpable.

carrie

Oh, right, right, right.

ross

Uh, but he was less excited about me all of a sudden. You know. Because I had said that.

carrie

Or you might be, like, an unwelcome force. Like an SP kind of person. Y’know.

ross

Maybe.

carrie

Yeah.

ross

Yeah. And yet still they had me fill out their form.

carrie

Okay.

ross

Uh, though I have—

carrie

Now, are they Christian?

ross

That’s a good question. Well, the point they were making—that’s a good thing to ask. The point they were making is that, I think, this is compatible. Happy Science is compatible with all the major religions.

carrie

Ah, of course it is.

ross

But I just happened to be the one thing that was incompatible. And come to think of it, I gave them my email. I don’t think I’ve gotten any emails!

carrie

Hmmm.

ross

So, uh, y’know what? Maybe they just threw it away the second I walked away. Like, this guy is bad.

carrie

Yeah. Interesting.

ross

Though the guy behind the booth, he did get in one comment. He said, oh, you have very Japanese eyes.

carrie

Oh! Okay.

ross

Well, thank you! [Carrie laughs.] Uh, so yeah! That was my brief interaction with Happy Science. But maybe, uh, maybe more to come!

carrie

Who knows?

ross

Who can say?

carrie

Who can say. Certainly not us.

ross

That made me just a tad late for, uh, our friend David Oates, but, uh, I think I got there right as things were starting up.

carrie

Which, for the David Oates talk, is actually the end. You start at the end and you— [Ross laughs.] —reverse through the talk.

ross

Oh, good point!

carrie

Yeah.

ross

That’s true.

crosstalk

Ross: So you’re right. I missed— Carrie: It’s almost a good point.

ross

I missed the end of the talk. [Both laugh.] If you reverse the whole thing.

carrie

Exactly. One other thing we haven’t mentioned is that there was an artist there named Douglas Taylor?

ross

Oh, yeah!

carrie

Who is a UFO contactee.

ross

He was set up right next to the Jimmy Church booth.

carrie

And he does art of the aliens he has been in contact with. I’m using the word “contactee” because I believe he does. The word “abductee” is, uh… not necessarily embraced by those who feel that their abduction was friendly.

ross

Mm. Mm-hm.

carrie

So I think he feels his were. But anyway, he paints all of these different, uh, aliens. And that picture of me talking to Dylan and holding up my painting—

ross

Yes!

carrie

That—that was from Douglas Taylor.

ross

Yeah! And you—you bought—what was it? Two paintings?

carrie

Just one. Actually, I tried to get two. I was gonna get Drew a set ‘cause I knew he’d really like them. And he had a deal if you bought two?

ross

Mm-hm?

carrie

But then I think like his… oh yeah! His Square wasn’t working at all?

ross

Okay.

carrie

So I was like… well, I can give you cash but then I can only get one.

ross

These are pretty fun. Looks like kind of a combination of airbrush and sometimes computer printout and…

carrie

Yeah. The one I got is pretty pixelated. [Laughs.]

ross

Okay. You know what? Actually, I’d be speculating on the exact method here. But I guess it’s kind of, uh, mixed media. And then finally it’s giclee on canvas, which I always think is hilarious. Essentially just means—I think “giclee” is like the—a French word for “nozzle”?

carrie

Nozzle?

ross

Yeah.

carrie

You told me this there. It’s so great. [Ross laughs.] I’ve never heard that before. But I’m gonna start calling people I don’t like a douche-giclee.

ross

A douche-giclee. Douchenozzle. [Laughs.] [Carrie laughs.]

crosstalk

Carrie: Le douche-giclee! Ross: So essentially—

ross

When you say “giclee on canvas” it’s not like there’s some interesting new wax medium you didn’t know about. Like, oh, next to encaustic, the giclee! No, it just means it’s a digital print on canvas.

carrie

Those things you see at Target.

ross

Or at Tar-jay. [Laughs.] [Carrie laughs.]

carrie

Tar-jay giclee.

ross

Yeah! Wow! Conscious Life Expo.

carrie

What a place!

ross

It was a wonderland for you and I.

carrie

It would be impossible to give it ratings because it was a bunch of different things.

ross

Yeah. People have noted we haven’t been giving our ratings as much lately.

crosstalk

Carrie: Yeah. Well. Ross: Yeah. Sorry.

carrie

It’s not our fault. [Ross laughs.] Somehow. [Ross laughs.] I also— [Laughs.] Uh—

ross

It’s totally our fault.

carrie

—wanted to mention that Linda Moulton Howe’s Antarctica documentary is on Amazon Prime. I believe it’s $3.99 to rent.

ross

Oh yeah!

carrie

I watched it. Very entertaining.

ross

Oh nice. I haven’t convinced my wife and son to watch that with me yet.

carrie

Oof. Yeah. Maybe we can do a livestream of it!

crosstalk

Ross: They’ve become— Carrie: Of us watching—

carrie

—and people can watch with us if they want.

ross

They’ve become very leery of the things that dad-slash-Ross— [Carrie laughs.] —want to watch?

carrie

Uh-huh.

ross

And—

carrie

Huh!

ross

They’ll usually let me get away with, uh, a certain class of movies. But then there’s all these documentaries and stuff like, ooh, we could watch this!

carrie

Uh-huh.

ross

No. [Carrie laughs.] We’re gonna watch Seinfeld.

carrie

Oh. Fair. But I just wanna say… my favorite thing about the Antarctica documentary?

ross

Yeah!

carrie

Is that Spartan 1 and Spartan 2 are the main characters, right? They’re in that, like… dark, anonymous silhouette the whole time? Right? But… [Laughs.] She has lit it. And she is editing it.

ross

Mm-hm.

carrie

Her name’s on every single credit, pretty much. There are transitions [through laughter] where the light kicks up and you can just—for seconds at a time—like, see their shirts. See pieces of their face.

ross

Okay.

carrie

There’s one part where I’m pretty sure one of them says the other guy’s name? Now I can’t remember what it is.

ross

Oh wow.

carrie

But like it’s not bleeped. It’s—it’s a little messy. [Laughs.]

ross

Okay.

carrie

Uh, but it’s very entertaining.

ross

We should track them down. Spartan 1. Spartan 2.

carrie

Yeah. Spartan 1, Spartan 2—if you’re listening, please get in touch. I just wanna know you. I wanna know the story.

ross

Well. Thank you all for joining us on this amazing journey through the world of the Conscious Life Expo. It’s been a wild one. Let’s hope that, uh, we all get back to a normal place where we can go to conferences and see each other and interact in person and, uh… y’know? Maybe next year we’ll be at the Conscious Life Expo again!

carrie

I hope so! Do you think there’ll be society again? [Laughs.] Do you think there’ll be a society again, then?

ross

By then?

carrie

Yeah.

ross

I wouldn’t bet money.

carrie

Okay. Cool.

ross

Let’s hope so.

carrie

Yeah. I—I wonder. But you know what? Uh… I just mean in-person society, not, um…

ross

Oh, yeah.

carrie

We have a society.

ross

I just want a, uh, yeah. I just want a real president by then.

carrie

Wouldn’t that be great?

ross

It’s all I’m asking for.

carrie

That would be super.

ross

All I want for Christmas.

carrie

You’re not gonna get it by Christmas.

ross

Well, at least I’ll have the promise of it.

carrie

Okay. Fair enough. Goodbye! [Computer-y voice] Yeah! Bluch!

carrie

Whoa.

ross

Whoa. Yeah. That’s not what I was expecting. [Computer repeats itself.] Yah! Bluch! [Carrie laughs.] [Computer] Goodbyeee! [Through laughter] Whoa! That worked! [Laughs.]

crosstalk

Carrie: Okay. Wait. Hear yours again— Ross: Whoops. Wait. Let me— [Computer voice] Goodbyeee!

carrie

Ghoodbyee! [Laughs.] [Ross laughs.]

clip

Hyaaa! Blugh!

ross

Hyaaaa! Blugh!

clip

[Computer voice] Hchulbyeee! [Ross and Carrie laugh.]

carrie

Hulbyeee! [Computer voice] Yeahhh! Bluh!

crosstalk

Carrie: Uh, maybe getting stuck at yachbluch. Ross: Yeah. That’s pretty similar. Yeah. [Laughs.]

carrie

Anyway. Such a good app, you guys. [Ross laughs.] I hope [through laughter] that they sponsor the show.

crosstalk

Ross: Uh, what I was really— Carrie: Groupon. Reverse speech. [Laughs.] Come on.

ross

Yeah. iReverseSpeech app on the Apple App Store and I hope the Google Play store. I haven’t checked.

carrie

Mm. Right.

ross

Anyways. Yeah. I was hoping that after that episode came out that he saw a big spike in downloads and was like, oh, what happened? [Carrie laughs.] Where did the app get featured? Well! That’s it for our show! And for the Conscious Life Expo. Though, uh, we may have some fun follow-up from, uh, some of these, uh, some of these things and people we met and did—

carrie

So true. Our theme music is by Brian Keith Dalton.

ross

Our administrative manager is Ian Kremer.

carrie

This episode was edited by Ross Blocher.

ross

You can support us by sharing the show with your friends; giving us a positive review on iTunes or Google Play or… Spotify. Overcast or wherever you get our podcast. And you can also support us at MaximumFun.org/donate or /join. We have been told—even though our MaxFunDrive is still forthcoming—

carrie

Mm-hm.

ross

And trust me, we’re gonna have all kinds of amazing incentives and extra content!

carrie

And that is the most fun time to join.

ross

It is the most fun time to join—

carrie

The Maximum Fun.

ross

But if you join now… that will count towards… our eventual goal. So, uh, so you will be part of that. So if right now, if you’re thinking, oh, I was really wanting to support Ross and Carrie and I am in a position where I can do that right now? We know these are difficult times. Uh, if you start doing that, just know that you will be part of the MaxFunDrive, uh, when it does come. So—

carrie

We’re not gonna stop you!

ross

We’re not gonna stop you! So we—we do hugely appreciate that. This—this makes what we do possible. It actually does.

carrie

I think I’m also going to start putting my research materials on my Etsy store.

ross

Oh, ooooh!

carrie

And I’ll—I’ll sign them for your friend or whatever. I think, uh, ‘cause I know a lot of times people wanna support the show in a little way.

ross

Yeah!

carrie

Get just a one-time bump!

ross

How do people, uh… find your Etsy store?

carrie

I don’t know. Search Etsy! I don’t know everything! [Laughs.]

ross

Fair. Okay.

carrie

I don’t know the link.

ross

Alright.

carrie

I think it’s Oh No Carrie… is the store? [Ross laughs.] But what’s the link?

ross

You’re a great promoter.

carrie

I don’t know! I’m not a magician!

ross

And thank you to all of you who do and continue to support us for making this show possible for everybody!

carrie

Yeah!

ross

We hugely appreciate it.

carrie

Also, we have social media.

ross

Yeah, we do!

crosstalk

Ross and Carrie: We have Facebook!

carrie

Ruined our society, but we’re still there!

ross

We’re still there!

carrie

[Through laughter] Facebook.com/ONRAC! O-N-R-A-C!

crosstalk

Ross: Yep. Good pitch. Carrie: You should all watch The Great Hack, though.

ross

Good pitch for that.

carrie

And we have Twitter. @OhNoPodcast.

ross

And remember—

clip

“Hi. I’ve created this whole personal website to find a woman to marry me. Creating… an exquisitely happy, incredibly powerful, marriage. With an awesome goddess. Is the most important thing in the world to me. I’ve been on a long, deep, spiritual journey looking for her. And along the way I have grown and developed; transformed myself tremendously. And I’ve learned a lot. In this video I’m going to tell you about the most important thing I’m looking for. In a marriage. And that’s resonance. Divine resonance. Resonance is a magical energy flow that happens when a system is perfectly tuned. The energies match. In non-resonant systems, energy that gets put into the system gets wasted. But when resonance is achieved, the energy put into the system builds and builds. A good example is a playground swing. When a child who doesn’t know how to pump the swing sits in the swing, she pulls on the chains and she wiggles and flails around and puts a lot of energy in, but her energy is wasted. Then she says—she doesn’t get a ride! So she says, push me! Well, there aren’t two things a child needs to learn. The first, uh—and most children wouldn’t be able to explain this—the first is that the swing has a natural resonant frequency that is determined by the length of the chain. It’s a pendulum! Like this. If I make this string—let’s say—this long, let’s see what the resonant frequency is! One, two. One, two. One, two. But if I make the string much shorter, the resonant frequency will be much higher. [Faster] One, two, one, two, one, two, one, two. Like that. That’s the resonant frequency.

music

“Oh No, Ross and Carrie! Theme Song” by Brian Keith Dalton. A jaunty, upbeat instrumental.

promo

Music: Upbeat rock plays in the background. Announcer: Dead Pilots Society brings you exclusive readings of comedy pilots that were never made, featuring actors like Patton Oswalt— Patton Oswalt: So the vampire from the future sleeps in the dude’s studio during the day, and they hunt monsters at night. It’s Blade meets The Odd Couple! [Audience laughs] Announcer: —Adam Scott and Jane Levy— Jane Levy: Come on, Cory. She’s too serious, too business-y. She doesn’t know the hokey-pokey. Adam Scott: Well, she’ll learn what it’s all about. [Audience laughs.] Announcer: —Busy Philipps and Dave Koechner.  Dave Koechner: Maybe this is family. Busy Philipps: My Uncle Tal, who showed his wiener to Cinderella at Disneyland, is family. Do you want him staying with us? [Light audience laughter.] Dave: He did stay with us, for three months. Busy: And he was a delight! [Audience laughs harder.] Announcer: A new pilot every month, only on Dead Pilots Society from Maximum Fun.

speaker 1

MaximumFun.org.

speaker 2

Comedy and culture.

speaker 3

Artist owned—

speaker 4

—Audience supported.

About the show

Welcome to Oh No, Ross and Carrie!, the show where we don’t just report on fringe science, spirituality, and claims of the paranormal, but take part ourselves. Follow us as we join religions, undergo alternative treatments, seek out the paranormal, and always find the humor in life’s biggest mysteries. We show up – so you don’t have to. Every week we share a new investigation, interview, or update.

Follow @ohnopodcast on Twitter and join the Facebook group!

People

How to listen

Stream or download episodes directly from our website, or listen via your favorite podcatcher!

Share this show