TRANSCRIPT One Bad Mother Episode 444: It’s Time to Be Mindful of Mindfulness Again, with Sarah Harmon

00:00:00

Biz Ellis

Host

Hi. I’m Biz.

00:00:01

Theresa Thorn

Host

And I’m Theresa.

00:00:03

Biz

Host

Due to the pandemic, we bring you One Bad Mother straight from our homes—including such interruptions as: children! Animal noises! And more! So let’s all get a little closer while we have to be so far apart. And remember—we are doing a good job.

00:00:20

Music

Music

“Summon the Rawk” by Kevin MacLeod. Driving electric guitar and heavy drums.

[Continues through dialogue.]

00:00:25

Biz

Host

This week on One Bad Mother—it’s time to mindful of mindfulness again. This time it will be different! We talk to Sarah Harmon of The School of MOM. Plus, Biz arises from the ashes!

00:00:37

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz and caller: Woooo!

00:00:40

Caller

Caller

Bizzz! I’m running away from home!

[Biz laughs.] 

I’m going out for milk and never coming back! For the weekend. Um—

[Biz laughs.] 

Yeah. [Through laughter] Just so no one thinks that, y’know, any additional phone calls need to be made after this. I just dropped off my daughter at daycare and I dropped off my doggo at boarding and I’m going to a cabin in the woods! For 24 hours! By myself! And leftie’s gonna show up tomorrow, and then we are gonna pick up our daughter from Grammy’s and Grandpy’s house on Sundayyy! 

[Biz laughs.] 

Yeah! Yay! I can’t wait! And just so no one thinks that like, I’m absolutely winning at this whole parenting thing? I’m not. I am in month seven of super brain. Of growing a human. And last night, we were gonna make—I was gonna do rice in the Instant Pot. And I had the pot next to the heating unit and I absolutely dumped a full cup of rice into the heating unit without the pot. To the point where any time you picked up the Instant Pot it just sounded like a rain stick. It was just so very soothing.

[Biz laughs.] 

But now there’s rice all over my kitchen and I can’t use my Instant Pot and leftie had to google how to get rice out of the Instant Pot, which is actually a very high search result so I feel a little better about that. But yeah. I’m not worried about it. I’m leaving a rice-filled Instant Pot behind and I’m running away! And… I don’t know what I’m gonna do. I’m gonna do nothing. I’m gonna do nothing. It’s gonna be great. I don’t have to fee anyone else except myself, and I’m gonna sleep and really that’s all I care about. Leftie was like, “What are you gonna do?” I’m like, “Nothing.” So…

[Biz laughs.] 

I wish all of you get an opportunity to do as much nothing as you want. This is the first time we’ve been able to leave our daughter with the grandparents since all of this nonsense started, so. Hooray. Again, I wish you all as much nothing as you want. You are all doing a great job. Byeee!

00:03:00

Biz

Host

Byeee! Okay. You’re doing a great job. Let—[Laughs.] I just wanna make sure that we all have the parenting checklist talking about something that we’re doing for self-care. Okay. Ready? Mention we are doing something for self-care. Okay. Check. Then, immediately try to prove we deserve it by sharing—[through laughter] sharing a fail. Okay. Check. Then get excited again about some self-care, but intermix that with making sure that we are also—it’s like the old—it’s like there’s like a witchcraft thing, where if you make a spell to wish evil upon somebody, then evil’s gonna come back on you. Right? 

So like if we talk about something good [through laughter] that we’re gonna do for ourselves, if we don’t say that along with wishing the same for every other person, as well as admitting that we’re screwing up, then somehow it’s all gonna be messed up. It’s not gonna—it’s not gonna work. So good job doing all those things. And you know what? Can we just also just stop doing that? I mean, it’s fair. We do it. It’s just like automatic. We can’t keep ourselves from doing it. But just like we don’t have to say “I’m finding parenting really hard” and then follow that immediately with “But I love my children!” Of course you fucking love your children. [Laughs.] Everybody knows that. Of course you’re failing at parenting. We all know that. 

That is why the celebration of you running away is so wonderful. And the fantasy I have of going to a cabin in the woods, by myself, for 24 hours? You are deep into Biz fantasyland right now. You are deep in there. And—[Laughs.] I also like that you started this off with, “I’m dropping my kid off at daycare and then I’m dropping the dog off at daycare and then I’m heading to the woods. And then my husband’s meeting me 24 hours later,” and there had just been this little section left out of what happens to your kid at daycare. I’m like, “Your daycare is gonna keep your kid for 48 hours? Oh, yeah!” You’re doing a wonderful job. And I hope your time in the woods was incredibly fulfilling. I hope you did the nothing of nothingness. I hope you weren’t killed, ‘cause that’s what happens, right? When women go to the woods deserving something nice. Anyway! That’s where my brain is. You’re doing a great job.

Speaking of people who are doing a great job, it’s time for thank-you’s!

00:05:37

Music

Music

Heavy electric guitar and driving percussion overlaid with “Ohh, oh-oh, oh-oh” and “Hey-ey-ey-ey-ey-ey” lyrics.

00:05:51

Biz

Host

And this time, I just wanna start by saying thank you to you guys! For just… getting up and doing it. [Laughs.] Every day. You probably work in one of the areas that we are constantly thanking people for here on the show. And even if you don’t, you’re still a person in the world trying to get through the day and we all know that that’s a lot right there. Just getting your kids up and out, and then getting yourself up and out. Being nice to each other while we’re out there. That’s a lot of effort. So thank you! Thank you for doing that! 

Teachers? Thank you. From the bottom of my heart. All the people who work with kids. Thank you. I really see you. I have to assume that not everybody who works with kids lives somewhere where masks are mandatory. And I know that there is a lot of, y’know, I—I’m on both sides of the fence when it comes to like small children and masks and kids who are differently-wired. Like, eehhh! It’s very minute! There’s a lot of grey. And I don’t have the answers of how to navigate all that grey, but I do know there are a lot of you out there who are teachers. Or really any of the other people who work in service of others. Who are surrounded by people who aren’t wearing masks, which is a risk. Especially if you are caring for kids five and under. Or if you are caring for kids who have autoimmune issues. Or if you are caring for elderly parents. That really sucks. And I really see you. And thank you. Thank you very much. So I’m just gonna let that sit today for the thank-you’s.

00:07:52

Biz

Host

Speaking of running away to the woods, I ran away to the woods in my mind. Okay. I don’t know if you guys remember, but last week I was complaining a little bit about how achy I was. My muscles! I’m sure it was from my workout. From just walking with rocks. That’s what it was. Not an hour after we got through recording this show, my fever shot straight up and I went straight down. And yes. I obviously thought it was COVID. Though I knew it wasn’t COVID ‘cause everybody didn’t have COVID in the house! It turns out it was just… the, like, very retro—I’m gonna steal my sister’s line—“Gee, I can’t believe it’s not COVID” virus of the flu. 

Did I get a flu shot this year? I did not! Thank you, Jesus, Stefan did. I went down so hard with this flu, guys. Fever for several days. I was essentially like—[Laughs.] I don’t remember last week very much! So that was Friday of last week. It is Friday of the next week right now. And today, I am feeling myself. Today. Even yesterday, 65%. Weak. A little blech. Like, my brain is all crazy. It can’t think straight. Like, ehh, it’s so tired. Like I was just falling asleep! In the middle of the day! For like five hours. Not like for a nap, but like, “Goodnight!” And so here is the fun progression of how I flu. First, I get deep into the flu and I really don’t have much choice of anything. I’m just sleeping. And then as the fever breaks and I’m coming out of it, that’s when it’s the perfect time for my mind to begin to question my purpose. [Laughs.] I consider taking some college classes at the local community college. I should probably definitely do that. Making quote-unquote “art.” Whatever midlife bullshit statement that means. And listening to Son Volt’s “Drown” on repeat over and over, blaring in the house. So basically it was either the flu virus, or it was the question-my-purpose virus. Either way, I’m feeling good today! [Laughs.] Which means all that thoughtfulness about my purpose and what I should be doing with my life and how I should be, like, really reclaiming myself or finding a new self is just gonna go right out the fucking window for today. 

Which I think ties in nicely to what we’re gonna talk about! Mindfulness. Again, guys. [Laughs.] With our guest Sarah Harmon of The School of MOM: Mothering Oneself Mindfully.

00:10:47

Music

Music

Banjo strums; cheerful banjo music continues through dialogue.

00:10:48

Theresa

Host

Please—take a moment to remember: If you’re friends of the hosts of One Bad Mother, you should assume that when we talk about other moms, we’re talking about you.

00:10:54

Biz

Host

If you are married to the host of One Bad Mother, we definitely are talking about you.

00:10:58

Theresa

Host

Nothing we say constitutes professional parenting advice.

00:11:02

Biz

Host

Biz and Theresa’s children are brilliant, lovely, and exceedingly extraordinary.

00:11:06

Theresa

Host

Nothing said on this podcast about them implies otherwise.

[Banjo music fades out.] 

[Biz and her guest repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss the weekly topic.]

00:11:11

Biz

Host

This week, we are talking to Sarah Harmon, who is a licensed mental health therapist, mindfulness, and yoga teacher, wellness expert, and founder of The School of MOM: Mothering Oneself Mindfully. She is passionate about supporting people on their unique wellness journey with a holistic approach to mind and body wellness. You can find out more about her and The School of MOM at www.TheSchoolOfMom.com. Welcome, Sarah! [Laughs.] 

00:11:41

Sarah Harmon

Guest

Hello! [Laughs.] Thank you so much for having me! 

00:11:44

Biz

Host

Thank you for joining us! Before we get into how mindful you are looking at the moment, I would like to ask you—who lives in your house? 

00:11:53

Sarah

Guest

So in my house I have my five-year-old daughter, Libby. My three-year-old daughter, Sage. My husband, Seth. And we also have a Beta fish named Fluffy. [Laughs.] 

00:12:08

Biz

Host

Oh! Beta fish are like… they’re hardcore! They’re mean little fish!

00:12:13

Sarah

Guest

That was a pandemic purchase. Yes.

[Biz laughs.] 

Yeah. Mm-hm.

00:12:17

Biz

Host

Maybe the mildest pandemic pet we have heard. 

00:12:21

Sarah

Guest

The truth is it’s actually Fluffy 2.0. Fluffy 1, we might’ve overfed within the first few months and so the kids don’t know it, but it is Fluffy round two. Yeah.

00:12:32

Biz

Host

Oh my god! You did the I Love Lucy/Happy Days switch out?

00:12:36

Sarah

Guest

We did. Yeah. 

00:12:38

Biz

Host

Okay. But sign me up for MOM school.

00:12:41

Sarah

Guest

Fluffy 1 sank. I think dead fish normally float, and ours actually sank. [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

So we knew something was wrong. 

00:12:48

Biz

Host

Something not okay with Fluffy. I believe you are also coming off of school break. School vacation of some kind. 

00:12:57

Sarah

Guest

Yes.

00:12:59

Biz

Host

I’ll just start with the question of—how are you? [Laughs.] 

00:13:02

Sarah

Guest

I am… hanging in there. We have been on school vacation week all week. I’m grateful that we did have some help with my mother-in-law, who is wonderful. She was quite helpful for a couple days. But we are actually in New Hampshire doing—enjoying some snow right now? So the kids did get out and do some sledding and—but ready to go back to school. For sure. We’re at that point in the week that it’s time to go back. [Laughs.] 

00:13:32

Biz

Host

Yeah! No. I… don’t do well on breaks. That was something I discovered very early. And I wish in a book somewhere it had said, “Once kids are in school, there will be times they won’t be in school. And you will have feelings about that.” And that—that would’ve been really great to know.

00:13:56

Sarah

Guest

Well especially coming out of the pandemic! Because… this is all too familiar. I’m like, I mean, school vacation week is like—it feels like any other day! [Laughs.] We’ve had the kids home so many times!

[Biz laughs.] 

00:14:09

Biz

Host

I know! And now with the added layer of, “Oh my god, what are we coming back to? We’ve all been gone for a week!”

00:14:15

Sarah

Guest

Yeah! There’s a holding your breath, right? Of like—I mean, we were sent home with tests, but it’s just, y’know, we’re like, is this—are we really at the end? Like, what are we coming back to? So yeah. 

00:14:28

Biz

Host

No. It’s not—not fun! It’s not fun. It’s not fun right now, Sarah. And since my children were infants—at different times they were infants in my house—but since they were infants, and as a result of doing this show for—god—ten years now!—mindfulness is something we have spoken—we have touched on multiple times. And I now, this far in, wondered if the trick to being more mindful is to having much older kids. Is that—[Laughs.] Is that how I achieve self-care and mindfulness? Sending my kids to college? Is that when I can start this process?

[Stuart laughs.] 

Because I—I have—I just fail at this! Constantly! So is that true? [Laughs.] 

00:15:25

Sarah

Guest

I love this question. And y’know, here’s the deal. So I—my kids are younger. Right? But—

00:15:33

Biz

Host

I don’t know how you’re doing this! How are you doing this?!

00:15:37

Sarah

Guest

I know—and—yeah! [Laughs.] These are not my most mindful days. [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

That is true. But it is true, actually, because here’s the deal. So mindfulness is most accessible in your daily life when you spend time practicing it in a more formal, dedicated setting. And as a parent—

[Biz laughs.] 

—with younger children—

00:16:00

Biz

Host

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. [Laughs.] 

00:16:04

Sarah

Guest

Right. So I mean this is kind of like the analogy of practicing an instrument. Right? So if you don’t practice, when you get into the concert you’re not gonna really be able to perform very well. And so there’s so many factors that go into, y’know, to being able to access mindfulness. One of them is truly a dedicated meditation practice. And so I am the first one to talk to my mom—especially my moms of young kids—to say, “This is hard! We barely have time to finish the things we need to do or the things we think we need to do, let alone—"

00:16:40

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Sarah: “—the things that we wanna do!” Right! Exactly.
 

Biz: Use the bathroom sometimes. Like, legitimately. 

00:16:43

Biz

Host

Using the bathroom with a baby on your lap, because that is a thing that will happen. To you. Possibly. Yeah.

00:16:51

Sarah

Guest

And I think when it comes to making a choice for moms—if they have an open fifteen minutes—this is one of the most challenging moments. You spent five minutes almost like a dog spinning around, chasing your tail, going, “What do I do? What do I do? Do I do this? Do I do this?” And before you know it you’re halfway through your fifteen-minute chunk. So—

00:17:11

Biz

Host

And then you spend five minutes complaining about how you’ve ruined it. “Now I’ve ruined it! Now I’ve ruined it! I missed it!” [Laughs.] 

00:17:17

Sarah

Guest

Then you spend five minutes just like tidying on the way to get to the activity, and then by that point you’re like, ‘Well I might as well just finish this load of laundry and call it. I’m not gonna do my fifteen-minute meditation or my fifteen-minute workout or my fifteen-minute stretch” or whatever it is. Right? And so you’re absolutely right. I mean, it is so challenging. And I think the tricky part about it is that meditation is not that appealing! I mean, sitting with your mind in stillness is hard! 

00:17:47

Biz

Host

It's hard.

00:17:49

Sarah

Guest

It’s very hard. It’s not the most pleasant experience. It’s not—it’s not gonna win out over the pleasure experience. Even though the impact and the results from my dedicated meditation practice are so fruitful? It’s hard to actually get over that hump of, “Ugh, well this isn’t that enjoyable.” And so I say—y’know, and I’ve actually recently read a book—I think it was called The Mama Sutra, by—and I’m gonna have to look up who it was by. And she’s a mom, but she was a senior meditation—she is a senior meditation teacher. And when she decided to have children, some of her mentors actually said to her, “Having kids—if you wanna kinda continue on this senior meditation teacher track, having kids is not a good decision.” Essentially.

00:18:33

Biz

Host

Oh, good. So it’s all professions that people tell you that. [Laughs.] 

00:18:36

Sarah

Guest

It was very affirming for me to actually hear that! Because I—y’know, it’s something that I also have felt of, y’know, I would be so much more mindful if I didn’t have—or I would have such a more dedicated practice if I didn’t have kids. But here’s actually the—it’s actually—it’s kind of a myth, in a way. If you… say that that being this, y’know, true meditation practitioner and this ultimate mindfulness teacher equals sitting on a meditation cushion X amount of days, or doing so many meditation retreats a year, then sure. But I actually think my kids, in the long run, have set me up for some of the deepest work—

[Biz laughs.] 

—personal work, inner work, mindfulness work, that I have ever—

00:19:25

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz: I am laughing because that’s probably the truest statement right there. Yeah.

Sarah: —ever committed—yes! Yes! It is!

00:19:31

Biz

Host

They really rip it open, don’t they? They really just—right down your psyche! Right in the middle of it! Just like, [makes ripping noise.] [Laughs.] 

00:19:38

Sarah

Guest

Constantly! Those little—[Laughs.] Yeah, I can swear. Those little shits are the biggest mirror. But we love them. But they’re the biggest mirror that we could ever ask for. Right? I mean, even today, my five-year-old—y’know, we’re out there—[Laughs.] We’re out there in the snow. “I’m so angry at you, Mom!” And I was like, “Why?” And she goes, “Because the snow is too fluffy!” 

00:20:04

Biz

Host

Yeah! Oh, how dare you?

00:20:06

Sarah

Guest

“And I wanted faster snow!” And it’s—y’know, she’s blaming me for it. And so I am, of course, triggered. Right? And so I am taking all of my patience and my energy to stay in my own body and not try to go off my own handle. Of like, “I can’t control the snow!” Y’know? Like—[Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

“What are you talking about?” So they push us to the brink. Right? And that extreme—these extreme situations really do challenge us to come into—to dig deep, in a way. And to say, “Okay. Less than ideal conditions for being present and being compassionate really teach you the skills to access the acceptance and the presence.” It’s truly remarkable. They push you to the brink. And it challenges you.

00:20:58

Biz

Host

And I actually wanna sit with that for a second before we shift into approaches or what it even means to meditate. Because there’s a lot with that, too. But I—I think it’s important to recognize that pushing to the brink is such a real… place. And I think it can be such a surprise to people who think “I’m gonna totally be able to handle kids in my house, and I’m totally gonna be—” But like, we all—I have openly talked about just the—how surprised I’ve been by the rage that I have felt? Or the complete exhaustion that—and like, having to—it’s not just delving deep. I can delve deep and I can sit right in that rage. “Hi! I’m deep in it!” Okay? 

But it’s the… the fact that… you then put the energy in to placing that rage somewhere else by refocusing. Because I’m not gonna rage at my kid. I’m gonna have to figure out a way to get through that moment with my child and navigate it. And… that can leave you super exhausted, on top of that. And it’s not like once you’ve gone through that little emotional burrito, your kids are still there! [Laughs.] They’re still gonna ask you questions and they’re still gonna blame you for the snow! And they’re still gonna like—I don’t know—anything! Like, literally anything. And… and I think for me, obviously—therapy. Therapy and medication helped a lot! But I think it can be such a surprise, again, to people to find themselves in that place. And so… A, I just wanna—I wanna put that out there to you. And I wanna then ask—some of us, it’s too late. 

[Stuart laughs.] 

We would be coming to mindfulness after kids are in our house. And then there are others who, “Oh god, if only I could’ve gone back while I was pregnant and set up these practices.” So I wanna—and on top of that, this is where I do these things where I talk too much and then the question gets lost. But there’s also this notion of, “What is even meditation?” So… I’d like to start with “What is meditation,” and then I’d like to have you go into some of that—that place. Where—and how this can help us. With that place. 

00:23:45

Sarah

Guest

Well first off, it’s never too late. Y’know—

00:23:48

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz: Ohhh! Thank god! [Laughs.] 

Sarah: Just—it’s never too late. 

00:23:50

Sarah

Guest

It’s almost like the like, “Oh, it’s too late to start exercising” or “It’s too late to start drinking water” or—it’s never too late! Our minds and our bodies, every single moment is an opportunity to make a shift. Right? To recommit to a different input of what we’re putting in it. A different, y’know, input and a different way of being. So it’s never too late. And I also—with that, I just think it’s so important to say this first? Because one of my favorite questions in mindfulness and in the work that I do with women is to say, “Is it helpful?” Right? And so for someone who’s listening that’s saying, like, “Oh, I should’ve done this when I was pregnant or I should’ve done this in the early years or,” y’know, coulda, shoulda, woulda—is that helpful? Right? Is that helpful to go to that point? No! Right? So—

[Biz laughs.] 

00:24:44

Biz

Host

No! The answer’s definitely “No,” but I—again—dance that dance every day with all kinds of things. But yes. 

00:24:51

Sarah

Guest

Right! So acknowledging. But by the way, this is a voice in my head that’s always like—I actually have a quiz that is really fun to take. I think it’s fun.

[Biz laughs.] 

And it’s called, “Discover your dominant internal voice and how it shows up in your role as a mom.” And so these are four of—I mean, I have more than just four, but these are my four top voices. And I think it’s actually great for me to tee this up because I can speak about them in the context of what meditation is. So by the way, these are four voices that so—basically all of the clients I have and friends and family that I know well—

[Biz laughs.] 

They’re the same voices in their head. So for me, I’ve named them. And I encourage people listening to name them their own personal name? ‘Cause yours might have a different flair than mine does. But—so—

00:25:37

Biz

Host

Frank.

00:25:38

Sarah

Guest

So my four are—

[Biz laughs.] 

So Gina is my anxious warrior. She’s the one that’s like always asking questions. Like, “Are my kids gonna die today? If I don’t do this, will my kids die today? Am I gonna keep my—” Y’know. She’s always going to worst-case scenario. She is—her worrying is her job. She thinks it’s gonna keep everybody safe. So the next one is Beth. She is my self-critic. She’s always doubting everything. So she’s the one that like—y’know, even on this podcast, will be like, “You idiot. Why’d you say that?” Like, y’know. Or “Why didn’t you wear the red shirt?” Or whatever it is. Like, she’s just always chiming in. And she’s super unhelpful. Right?

00:26:17

Biz

Host

Oh, yeah. She not helpful.

00:26:18

Sarah

Guest

So she’s—Beth is the one that’s like, “Why didn’t you start this last year? Or why didn’t you get into a meditation program when you had the time?” Like, y’know, she’s the inner critic. And just always chiming in and making herself known. Then the next one is Nancy, and Nancy is—

[Biz laughs.] 

—the negative Nancy. She’s the one that’s like, “What’s the point, Sarah? Why would you start today? If you haven’t started today, forget it. I don’t even think it’s worth it for you. Because guess what? You’re probably not gonna do it anyway.” Like, she just takes me down.

[Biz laughs.] 

So she’s fun. And then there’s Polly, who is my Type A planner. And Polly’s the one, when I’m sitting in meditation? That is planning my vacation, my next meditation, my—everything. She is running through, “Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick,” like all the items that she should be doing instead of sitting. So those are the—so those are the voices. So now, what is meditation? Meditation—actually, it’s helpful to maybe explain the difference between meditation and mindfulness. So—

00:27:22

Biz

Host

Woo! Please! Please! Because every parenting magazine will just lump that shit together for a soundbite, or maybe they explain it but it’s all my brain takes away. So yes, please.

00:27:33

Sarah

Guest

And it’s such a buzzword. Right? Everyone’s like, “Oh, be mindful about this!” So we need to be really clear about what it is and what it isn’t. So mindfulness—my definition is present-moment awareness, with curiosity, non-judging discernment—so I’ll speak a little bit about that—acceptance and kindness. Kindness and compassion. So present-moment awareness of your outer world is how I explain mindfulness. So for example—people can’t see me, but say I’m picking up my glass of water. So I’m gonna be super present with this glass of water, with curiosity. Okay, it’s got ridges on it. It’s a little slippery. It’s ¾ full. Right? So—and I could quickly go into judgment. Like, “Oh, this cup’s warped! Did it go into a—who put this in the dishwasher?!” 

[Biz laughs.] 

Y’know? [Laughs.] Right? And so goes the loop. Right? So it’s really trying to watch for those voices, i.e., Beth, Nancy, Polly, and Gina—and any others that come to the table. And just stay present and curious! Now when we take this present-moment awareness with non-judgment and acceptance and kindness, and we turn it internally—right? We turn the lens inside of ourselves. That is what I talk about as meditation. This is the more formal dedicated practice of going inward and observing your inner landscape. So what do I mean by that? It’s your thoughts, your emotions, and your physical sensations which are all connected. Observing those with curiosity, non-judgment, acceptance and kindness. And all of that is happening in the present moment, so it’s kind of—this is the exhausting piece of it. It’s moment to moment, recommitting to—op, nope, there I went again! Beth is talking—now Beth is blaming my husband already for putting the dish in the dishwasher. Come back to the glass. Y’know? What is it and let’s taste the water. What temperature is the water? And so that is the dance of outer versus inner observation. Curious observation. Where I say that meditation is the bringing mindfulness in our inner world, essentially.

00:29:52

Biz

Host

Okay. Because when I turn it inwards, right? And I’m observing. The water tends to be my mind. Right? Like, it tends to be… the… y’know, negative Nancy or the whoever. 

00:30:10

Sarah

Guest

You wanna expect that your mind’s gonna be super busy. And I say this like one of the myths around meditation—I think what actually drives people away from it because they think they’re not doing it right—is like, “Oh, well my mind is too busy. I couldn’t clear my thoughts.” And so I quickly—in my Intro to Mindfulness modules, in all of my courses, I speak about the myths. So one of the first myths is, “My mind is too busy or full to meditate.” And I say, “No, actually. The only—if your mind wasn’t too full? You would either be dead or you’d be sedated.” Right? Your mind—we don’t want your mind to be empty! Because mindfulness—and you said the word “brain.” So I really start with—mindfulness starts in the brain. We need to understand the way that our brain works. And we have thirty to fifty thousand thoughts! It’s just the way it is! So when you sit down, one of—I think—the most freeing things is to say, “Hello, thoughts. Let’s go.”

[Biz laughs.] 

Right? “Here we go.” And for me, it’s actually—when I named these parts of myself, I can really welcome them. And this is this acceptance. It’s saying—so for you, y’know, you might say, “Okay, I’ve got this—” maybe one of the dominant minds in your head and kind of depending on the day or how much sleep you’ve had or stage of life you’re in—y’know, it sounds like there might be one that is a little Polly-esque. She wants to do something. Right?

00:31:40

Biz

Host

That would be the dominant part of my brain. [Laughs.] 

00:31:41

Sarah

Guest

The dominant! Or the Nancy piece, right? Or the Nancy, which is just kind of like heavy and negative. And you mentioned, “Is that therapy?” And I think it’s important to say like, sometimes, this is really—y’know, I’m a therapist, so I’m biased. I would always say, speak to a therapist. Especially if you have some really dark thoughts? Going—Anne Lamott has this wonderful quote, which is, “My mind is like a bad neighborhood. I try to never go there alone.”

[Biz laughs.] 

And I love that quote, and I think it actually points out that for some people, meditation is contra-indicated. Meaning—our fancy word as a therapist is to say, “Actually, we wouldn’t recommend it.” Because your thoughts can be very scary and it can be very hard to separate yourself from your thoughts. They are very real. And if they’re very scary and dark, it’s gonna be very triggering for you. Right? So to be a mindful witness to your thoughts is to observe them and say, “That’s Nancy, that’s Beth.” But when we’re in a mental struggle—if we’re struggling with some mental illness—we’re unable to have space. So your Nancy? Is your life! You think—or Gina! If you’re struggling with anxiety? Gina is like a firehose. She is spitting worst-case scenarios at you so fast, you actually—that’s all you know. And it feels like that is your reality. So… that’s when therapy is—and medication—is truly helpful and needed. Is because you can get to a point where you can observe these parts of your mind as truly that. As a part of yourself? And it’s not dominating. Like, fully dominating.

00:33:20

Biz

Host

Woo! I am so glad that you said that. And I—everybody? Listen to that! That was a really key one. Alright. Now. This is you and I are just on a sleigh ride of derailing in a million directions, which is wonderful. So coming back to the meditation. To the mindfulness. And… we just ticked off the judgment. Right? Accepting that we’re people and we’re messy and we’re not perfect and that’s absolutely great. Now I’m gonna backpack on that. I’m gonna piggyback on it. We’ve been in a pandemic. Which is not helpful for parents [through laughter] who are already—

00:34:03

Sarah

Guest

Understatement of the century. [Laughs.] 

00:34:05

Biz

Host

Right! All the things that we’ve already talked about. Right? The whole crux of why this show even exists. 

00:34:11

Sarah

Guest

Not helpful. [Laughs.] 

00:34:12

Biz

Host

Just like not helpful. Yeah! If I’m gonna ask, “Is this helpful?” I’m gonna say the pandemic was not. And so with that scene set—on top of the pressures and, y’know, the dark places and the accepting ourselves—what is helpful? And please do not skip primal screaming. Okay? Because that may have been one of my favorite things I read this year. So. Is the greatest thing that’s ever happened. But—so—what is helpful?

00:34:49

Sarah

Guest

Yeah. So it’s funny ‘cause I say the pandemic is the most unhelpful thing ever? But here’s where—people can send me hate mail for saying this. I actually believe—because now I’ve witnessed it with so many people and myself—is that what the pandemic has done is that in all of its unhelpfulness and just pure overwhelm and pain, it has pushed us to the point where we cannot ignore what we were probably going to ignore in the absence of the pandemic. What do I mean by that, right? People’s anxiety got to a point that they couldn’t ignore it. Couples—I can’t tell you—flooding to couples’ therapy. Me and my husband are in couples’ therapy because of the pandemic. And I will tell you that this pushing to the brink actually—this being so unhelpful—has made it helpful in that it has kind of forced people to look at the dark things and get help for these dark things? In ways that they never would have. And I think that is, y’know, again—you’re gonna send me hate mail and throw tomatoes at me virtually.

[Biz laughs.] 

But it is—I hate the word, but the silver lining or the meaning that I’ve found out of this pandemic.

00:36:10

Biz

Host

How about “it can be both”? How about “It can be both”? You can—the pandemic can be on this hand the shitshow emotional garbage fire, like, the loss… the anxiety. The—just—all of it. 

00:36:28

Sarah

Guest

The tears. The madness. 

00:36:30

Biz

Host

Gets to be over here. And then also—and/or—there is also this outcome or possible result of adding a light. Adding a focus. To—to mental health. The unacceptableness of the pressure put on parents, on teachers, on healthcare workers—I mean, just—there were so many things that I think came out of this. That I’m glad we are now still angry about and still talking about. 

00:37:12

Sarah

Guest

And this is—this is the scream. Right? So—

[Biz laughs.] 

Women have been angry. Moms have been angry for a long time. Again, and so this is—y’know, it’s so, so, so—

00:37:24

Biz

Host

So fucking angry! [Laughs.] 

00:37:27

Sarah

Guest

What is fascinating. Right? Is I actually think one of the most impactful parts of this for me was that right after the article came out in The Globe, I got a wave of emails from women in their sixties. Outreach. And they said, ”I’m so glad you’re doing this. This was—so we were screaming in pillows.” One woman wrote me and said her husband had passed away and she had three kids, and she said every day when her kids would go to school, she would go home and scream. And it got her through her grief. And then I would get another email to say, “I also spent my young years screaming.” And they were doing it quietly. And for the first time it was almost like our screams were giving voice to their screams. And all these generations of women. And so that was very emotional for me, because I have a mother who struggles with mental illness. It’s one of the reasons why The School of MOM exists. And it was—one of the things I was reflecting on was, I wonder—right? And this—this road is not so helpful when we’re talking about unhelpful and helpful.

[Biz laughs.] 

I found it’s actually not so helpful for me to go down the “what-if.” But in this moment I was wondering to myself—what if my mom had had a conversation about anger when she was my age, right? And what if she had someone say, “Come to this field and scream with me. And let’s connect this way.” It does—y’know, I can’t help but wonder if the trajectory of her mental health in any capacity would’ve been different. Y’know? In any capacity. And so I think that it’s given voice—I mean, now we have—we’re screaming on television. We’re screaming around the world. And so this extreme is this—wow. Like, if we hadn’t had this pandemic, I wouldn’t—I wouldn’t—you and I wouldn’t be talking! Right? Like, I wouldn’t be talking!

00:39:24

Biz

Host

Well I would’ve been screaming, but it would’ve been much more pleasant to listen to on a podcast. Like, that—yeah.

00:39:30

Sarah

Guest

And it wouldn’t be normalized! It wouldn’t be—like, this is now normalized anger. I mean, I was raised in a family where anger was a taboo emotion. Women—for women—anger is definitely a taboo emotion. “You’re crazy! You’re being irrational! You’re not good enough!” Or, “You should be able to handle this!” Right?

00:39:50

Biz

Host

“Are you on your period? That must be why you’re angry!”

00:39:53

Sarah

Guest

Yes, exactly! “Oh, you’re definitely PMS.” And so—

[Biz laughs.] 

Ugh! I mean, here we go. And so we have been talking about anger in a whole new way. It’s been blown open, my conversations around anger. My education around anger. I am—it’s such a gift. I’m talking about anger. I’m seeing my kids get angry in a new way. Now I’m watching them scream? Not that I wasn’t before and—but I’m having a different response to it because I’m celebrating—sometimes—[Laughs.] 

00:40:27

Biz

Host

Yeah, yeah, no, fair enough. Fair enough.

00:40:29

Sarah

Guest

—their screams, right? I know. I mean, to a point. But I am. I’m watching almost in awe their natural ability to move through their rage? And they’re—again, they’re teaching me! They’re teaching me this natural progression of rage when you fully have no judgment. And no filter. Y’know. Of it. It’s just—and on the other side of it, in three seconds flat they are happy and moving on and they don’t even remember that they were angry! Whereas we don’t allow or haven’t—traditionally we don’t allow ourselves to go there. We build it up. We simmer. And before you know it, we combust! We have breakdowns. Physical and emotional and mental breakdowns. And so this has completely blown the top off, literally, our anger and rage so that we are releasing it. And it is so freeing and so healing. And I think paving the way for—y’know, if my girls can be just, y’know, in a space when they’re parents—if they decide to be parents—where they just go to a field and scream and let it out and come back and, y’know, enjoy their evening? I love it! Y’know, let’s go scream before we go out to dinner! Y’know, it’s like the double-pleasure hit! This is awesome! [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

00:41:45

Biz

Host

It is… it’s such a great release, and I don’t think we’re even at the tip of the anger iceberg, as it were, peeling back those layers and the constraints placed on women to keep it in. I remember one of my—one of my favorite stories, but one of the angriest moments. I was working at this outdoor theatre, and one of the nighttime performances was this band of the Uppity Blues Women. It was these three women, and they sang funny, bluesy songs poking fun of relationships and men. I mean, whatever. Y’know. And it wasn’t like, “Men suck!” It was just, y’know, whatever. Funny thing. And the guy—he was like the program director who was kind of a… pig. Because there were lots of things that he would say that were super shitty about women. Anyway. [Laughs.] 

He said, “I don’t understand—” And this is a sold-out show. And he says, “I don’t understand why these women think this is funny.” And I said—I just looked at him and I was like, “They’re… angry… and you should be really thankful that they are moving through that anger? They’re putting that out there in this humorous way? As opposed to burning down this entire place.” [Laughs.] Just—welcome to the stage the Uppity Blues Women! And they just light fires and then they leave! Right? But like… I was just like, “You are so lucky. That we have made music and we have made comedy and we have made art and we have made, y’know, stories and we have made all these different things out of that anger. While avoiding that anger. Because there are constantly days I open the newspaper and think, ‘I can’t believe we haven’t burned it all down.’” 

And if the—your point about the screaming and reflecting on the women who came before us and how helpful it could’ve been if they’d had a place for it, is incredibly moving. And incredibly touching. And, y’know, with my own mom I have those questions of like, “Why are you even saying that? If you wanna go and do whatever, go fucking do it! What is the problem?!” Right? And you just—so it’s—I would like to say, thank you. For doing—putting that helpful thing out in the world. Of primal screaming. And we’ll make sure everybody who has not read these pieces learns all about the primal screaming, as well as the MOM school and all of your offerings when it comes to meditation and mindfulness and taking those first steps and better understanding it. I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to us today and kinda hold my hand through some of this stuff. I will not be the most jaded mindfulness practitioner as much as I tend to be. Thank you so much!

00:45:02

Sarah

Guest

You’re so welcome, and if I can say one more thing about the anger—

00:45:06

Biz

Host

[Laughs.] Oh, please! We could derail and talk about anger all day! [Laughs.] 

00:45:10

Sarah

Guest

I would say for those listening, if anger is an emotion that you have not welcomed with open arms before, that you’re like, y’know, maybe just this conversation or seeing the picture of us screaming or anyone screaming has just opened the door a little bit for you to say, “Well maybe I can look at my anger a little bit or allow for my anger.” This is what I’m gonna say to you, is that your anger—as a woman? As a human, but truly as a woman, is ripe for information. It is—

[Biz laughs.] 

It is a—

00:45:50

Biz

Host

Yes it is! It is an onion to be peeled! [Laughs.] 

00:45:53

Sarah

Guest

It is! But in like—so I always say to my clients, I’m like, “Where do you—” ‘Cause y’know, we talk about boundaries a lot. “Where do you need a boundary? Look at your anger. Your anger is the in. It is the moving from—I just read this—of what you’re resisting to what you are desiring. That is where the gift of this anger, is flipping the conversation there of, ‘This is what I’m so pissed about because I don’t have it or it’s not happening’ to ‘This is what I need, I want, I deserve, and I’m gonna ask for it.’” And that is the conversation that I want this scream. It’s like, the first stage is normalizing anger, and that bigger conversation? Is what do we do with it? What do we ask for, and where do we go from here? Because that is—

00:46:39

Biz

Host

Okay, I’m going to add to that. Because it was—and we’ve already—I know I’ve shared this on the show. But at a therapy session a couple of months ago, I was talking about that [makes angry noise] it was just sitting in me and she was like, “Well what are you afraid is gonna happen? Are you afraid—what is the fear of… feeling the sadness?” And I said, “Oh, I’m not afraid of sadness. I’m afraid my anger will come out. And no one will love me and everybody will leave and everybody will think, y’know, I—like, I’m afraid if I ever let the anger, right? That’s what’s always simmering.” It’s like the Incredible Hulk—“The secret is, I’m always angry.” [Laughs.] It’s so—but I think that is such—again, that is such a great… thing that you said. Just to say—[sighs]. Not just embrace it, but let that be… the thing to explore. Let that be… okay. Not to be afraid of it. Okay. I love you! You’re the—you’re wonderful!

00:47:53

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Sarah: Thank you for having me! This has been so fun.

Biz: Thank you so much! Yeah! 

00:47:58

Biz

Host

We’ll link everybody up to where they can find out all about you! 

00:48:00

Sarah

Guest

Awesome. Awesome.

00:48:02

Biz

Host

So thank you so much.

00:48:03

Sarah

Guest

I really appreciate it. Thank you.

[Biz laughs.] 

00:48:06

Music

Music

“Ones and Zeroes” by “Awesome.” Steady, driving electric guitar with drum and woodwinds.

[Music fades out.]

00:48:23

Music

Promo

Cheerful ukulele with whistling plays in background.

00:48:24

Biz

Promo

One Bad Mother is supported in part by Wealthfront. A lot of investment apps make it easy to start trading, but [singing] just because it’s easyyy [regular voice] doesn’t mean you know what you’re doing. What?! [Laughs.] Just like parenting! “This parenting is sooo easy!” [Laughs.] Alright. Look. Wealthfront was designed by financial experts to help you turn your good ideas into great investments without the hassle of having to do everything yourself. Right? And it is trusted with over $28 billion in assets. Helping nearly half a million people out there to build their wealth. And the best part is their product is really simple and yet super powerful. To start building your wealth and get your first $5,000 managed for free, for life, go to Wealthfront.com/badmother. That’s W-E-A-L-T-H-F-R-O-N-T.com/badmother to start building your wealth. Go to Wealthfront.com/badmother to get started today. 

[Music fades out.]

00:49:30

Theresa

Host

Hey, you know what it’s time for! This week’s genius and fails! This is the part of the show where we share our genius moment of the week, as well as our failures, and feel better about ourselves by hearing yours. You can share some of your own by calling 206-350-9485. That’s 206-350-9485.

00:49:50

Biz

Host

Genius fail time. Genius me, me!

00:49:54

Clip

Clip

[Dramatic, swelling music in background.]

Biz: Wow! Oh my God! Oh my God! I saw what you did! Oh my God! I’m paying attention! Wow! You, mom, are a genius. Oh my God, that’s fucking genius!

00:50:08

Biz

Host

Okay. This clearly—all my doing. Ellis announced the other day—and I might’ve hinted at this earlier—that they wanted to take swim classes. And I signed them up. And anybody who has followed the show knows that Ellis did not take to water like a duck. [Laughs.] More like a… cat. More like a… “Maybe I’ll stick my foot in it, but if you want me to put my head under, it’s never going to happen. In fact, we’re going to go into crisis mode all the time.” So for like two years I tried a variety of different classes—“Oh, maybe we’ll just become a member of a pool! We’ll just be in the water all the time! That’ll do it!” Nope. “Maybe we’ll do some lessons!” Nope. “One-on-one lessons?” No. “Group lessons?” No. “How about whoever the kindest, thoughtful teacher?” Nuh-uh. Okay? So we just stopped. I just stopped. And… four years later—[Laughs.] Ellis went over to a friend’s place, their apartment, and they’ve got a pool. And Ellis was kinda talking about it and I said, “Oh, do you think you want to take swim lessons now?” “Yeah. I think so.” So. There we have it. By doing absolutely nothing, I am clearly responsible for this growth in Ellis. And I am sure this approach is going to obviously apply to Ellis’s next struggle, which is picky eating. [Laughs.] 

00:51:54

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

Hi. I’m calling with a genius. Glow sticks. Glow sticks are genius. I love them. Bath time? Turn off the lights, throw in some glow sticks, they got a bath party. Camping? Glow sticks. Zoo? Glow sticks. Bedtime? Glow sticks. They’re so inexpensive with Amazon, you guys. Whole tubes of them. You can get ‘em ten glow sicks. You can give ‘em one glow stick. Glow sticks are amazing. They’re inexpensive and they can make so many things fun and you don’t have to worry about batteries. I love glow sticks. You guys are all doing an amazing time—job—time—

[Biz laughs.] 

—whatever we want it to be. You guys are great. Bye. 

00:52:40

Biz

Host

Glow sticks! In the bath! Genius. Glow stick! In the bed! Genius. Glow sticks! With sex! Genius! Glow sticks—[Laughs.] Grocery shopping! Genius! Glow sticks! [Laughs.] I just—road trips! Genius. I fully agree. We have spoken of glow sticks before on this show, but it’s been a very long time and yes! Yes! To glow sticks! I really—this is definitely one of those ones where Gabe was like, “What?” And then suddenly Gabe was like, “Ohh!” So watch out! Gabe’s gonna be buying those glow sticks for their bathtub! [Laughs.] You are doing an amazing job. Failures.

00:53:23

Clip

Clip

[Dramatic orchestral music plays in the background.]

Theresa: [In a voice akin to the Wicked Witch of the West] Fail. Fail. Fail. FAIL!

[Timpani with foot pedal engaged for humorous effect.]

Biz: [Calmly] You suck!

00:53:28

Biz

Host

Fail me, me. Okay. We don’t have a cafeteria at the school. It’s the kinda thing where if you don’t wanna make your kids lunch, you can order it from this local company who puts together healthy lunches, la, la, la, la, la, and your kids get ‘em at school. And the kids like them. I don’t get them often, but during the flu week—ordered a lunch for Raiden and a lunch for Ellis. And then completely forgot about them. And basically my children did not have those at school this week. Those were just uneaten lunches. Now the good news is is I know that the company takes all of the lunches at the end of the day and donates them to the homeless shelter? ‘Cause they’re all prepackaged and it’s all like easy to eat. But. That was a real waste of some fucking money. And effort! ‘Cause we had to make lunches! Anyway. Great. 

00:54:29

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

Hi! I am calling in a fail. A big fail. Um—

[Biz laughs.] 

So, Biz, Theresa. This has been a little while, but I finally am just getting around to calling this in. My birthday was in the middle of January.

[Biz laughs.] 

And I had been sick with COVID for like the first couple weeks of the year? And so finally I was feeling better and my good friend also was having a birthday and so we decided to go out and celebrate. So I went to this schmancy lunch in a mall. And I was running late because I’m super behind at work because of being out for so long and because the schools are just like constantly closing and daycare was closed. 

[Biz laughs.] 

So I never get everything done. So I’m like, running into this meeting and I think to myself, “I should stop trying to do—” Or not meeting, running into lunch—and I think to myself, “I should stop trying to do so many things at the same time.” But I didn’t stop. And instead, I—

[Biz laughs.] 

—dropped a pin in my parking spot—just dropped a pin in the map and just kept on going and ran in. Had my lovely lunch. Came out. Couldn’t find the car. I went up and down. It’s like this stupid big mall and it’s surrounded by parking garages that look exactly the same? I went into, like, I dunno. Thirteen parking garages surrounding this mall, looking for my car.

[Biz laughs.] 

Up and down. Up and down. Up and down the rows. Clicking my little button. My stupid button on the key to make my horn honk so I can hear it possibly. Couldn’t find it. And I eventually gave up! And I ordered an Uber. 

[Biz laughs.] 

And I Uber-ed home. And—because I had to get home because the babysitter was leaving! So I finally get home and everything is taken—I’m like, “I’ll deal with the car later.” My dad took me back to the mall when he would be able to come over, and I found it immediately. But like… seriously. I lost—I went to lunch with a friend and I lost my car. 

[Biz laughs.] 

I just—it’s such a big fail. And I know that it’s funny and I will look back on this for the rest of my life as this hysterical story, but my god! I lost my car at a mall. That is all. 

00:56:54

Biz

Host

You might not look back on this and think it’s funny. You might—you might look back on this and find it one of your darkest moments. [Laughs.] This is one of those moments where like—yeah. I mean, obviously, this is your audience. Everybody here supports you. Everybody here really appreciates your fail. But there are gonna be a lot of places where you’re gonna start to tell this story and you’re gonna realize it’s not your audience. People are gonna be like, “Are you okay?” Like—[Laughs.] ‘Cause I—y’know, there’s like—it makes me immediately think of like… leaving my keys in the passenger door. And then going shopping. My sister was visiting. And we go shopping all over Old Town Pasadena. Come back to the parking garage. Come up the stairs. And I’m trying to find my keys and I can’t find my keys anywhere. And then there they are, sitting in the door. Right? And… I was like, “Huh.” My sister gave it one of those, like, “…Oh.” Which to me read, “You’ve lost your mind. You need to get help right away. Nothing’s okay for you. You’re not okay. You’re a broken shell of a human being.” Some of that was maybe true. I don’t know. But I don’t look back on that and think it’s hilarious. So with that said, you are doing a horrible job parking your car. [Laughs.] 

00:58:20

Music

Music

“Mom Song” by Adira Amram. Mellow piano music with lyrics.

You are the greatest mom I’ve ever known.

I love you, I love you.

When I have a problem, I call you on the phone.

I love you, I love you.

[Music fades out.]

00:58:44

Promo

Clip

[Sound of doorbell dinging.]

Speaker: Um, hi! I’m looking for a movie.

Ify Nwadiwe: Oh, I’ve gotcha!

Drea Clark: Oh, there’s that new foreign film with the time travel!

Alonso Duralde: There’s an amazing documentary about queer history on streaming!

Ify: Have I told you about this classic where giant robots fight?

Alonso: Or there’s that one that most critics hated, but I thought was actually pretty good!

Drea: Oooh, I know! The one with the huge car chase and then there’s that scene where—

Ify, Alonso, & Drea: The car jumps over the submarine!

Speaker: Wow! Who are you eclectic movie experts?

[Fun, peppy music.]

Ify: Well I’m Ify Nwadiwe.

Drea: I’m Drea Clark!

Alonso: And I’m Alonso Duralde. And together, we host the movie podcast Maximum Film!. 

Drea: New episodes every week on MaximumFun.org.

Ify: And you actually just walked into our recording booth.

Speaker: Oh, weird! Sorry! I thought this was a video store.

Drea: You seem like a lady with a lot of problems. 

[Music fades out.]

00:59:30

Promo

Clip

Music: Pleasant, gentle ukulele.

Jo Firestone: Well, Manolo, we have a show to promote. It’s called Dr. Gameshow.

Manolo Moreno: It’s a family friendly podcast where listeners submit games, and we play them with callers from around the world.

Jo: Oh! Sounds good! New episodes, uh, happen every other Wednesday on MaximumFun.org!

Manolo: It’s a—it’s a fast and loose oasis of absurd innocence and naivete and—

Jo: Are you writing a poem?

Manolo: Nooo. I’m just saying things from my memory. And, uh, it’s a nice break from reality. [Chuckles.] Is that—? Are we allowed to say that?

Jo: I don’t know. It sounds bad.

Manolo: It comes with a 100% happiness guarantee.

Jo: [Interrupting.] It does not.

[Manolo chuckles.]

Jo: Come for the games and stay for the chaos.

[Music ends.]

01:00:15

Biz

Host

Alright, everybody. Let’s settle in… and listen to a mom have a breakdown.

01:00:25

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

Hi! This is a rant. But you have inspired me to try to turn this into a thank-you rant. I hope I don’t lose my cool. So all these things that I wanted to rant about, I really feel seen when I listen to your show. [Tearfully] And so I wanted to say thank you. So I’m a teacher at a high school where kids don’t wear masks properly and I have a four-year-old. And I feel alone in that. And when I listen to your show I know I’m not alone. And I feel forgotten by the world. With the under-fives who can’t get vaccines. And when I listen to your show, I don’t feel like I’m totally forgotten in the world. And I’m thankful to my AP class, who’s amazing. 

[Biz laughs.] 

My one class of kids who just unabashedly love learning, y’know? All kids really love learning but they are just actually vocal about it.

[Biz laughs.] 

And they make me want to come to work every day. And when I don’t wanna come to work. And I’m thankful for our SRO. We finally got an SRO in our building, which is a police officer who’s stationed to us, the high school, and walks around and I can’t wait. Can’t wait. I’m so excited. ‘Cause we need it. ‘Cause kids have had two years of not learning how to emotionally regulate and they’re making really, really bad decisions. So… I am thankful for all those things. And I’m also upset and lonely, but.

[Biz laughs.] 

I wanted to shout out to that. Thank you. I love your show. Love you guys. 

01:02:15

Biz

Host

God, you’re doing such a good job! You are definitely not alone. And you’re definitely seen. You’re seen on many levels with this call. You were talking about this at the beginning of the show with our thank-you’s. I cannot emphasize enough how grateful I am for teachers. The fact that you are showing up every day obviously for the kids who love learning, y’know, but you’re also showing up obviously for the kids who are vocalizing how much they love learning. [Laughs.] But you are also showing up for the kids who aren’t vocalizing it? But you know do like learning, too? That’s the group you’re probably having a much larger impact on. I don’t… know if… teachers realize the impact that they can have, even on one kid that they come in contact with during the day. But let me be very clear that you do. 

And… it’s not just high school. It’s all grade levels. The emotional development that did not happen over the last two years. Because kids were not around other kids in the same way that they have traditionally been. None of these kids are like alright. Like, they’re all— [Laughs.] Like, kindergarteners are having issues. Fifth graders are having issues. Y’know, middle schoolers? Like I said, last time, middle school. You went from fifth grade and the next time you saw your friends, it was seventh grade. Wow! Right? And the same goes true for high school. You were in middle school and then suddenly you’re in high school. 

And I just really wanna point out how—again—this is why teachers fucking rock. Is the way you worded it—this idea that a lot of these kids haven’t had the same emotional developmental freedoms or structure that a non-two-COVID-year would have offered them. And as a result, maybe making some bad choices. [Laughs.] I mean, like teens already make bad choices! But if you haven’t been around your friends to watch them fuck up first? Then we’re all fucking up! Okay? And I am sure—this wasn’t mentioned—but I am sure that you are also the sounding board or the echo chamber for parents who are also frustrated, who are also stressed out, who are also worried about their kids, who are also juggling too many things, and that can make you a target for those frustrations. 

And… I just want you to know that I see you. And… I really want to say this to you and to really everyone listening—you are actually not alone. You are not the only one who is struggling. If you have kids under five? That feeling of being forgotten is 100% valid. Same goes for families with autoimmune-compromised children or family members. It can feel like you are being very ignored, especially after two years of just as being parents. Before the vaccination, being completely ignored when it came to how we were approaching solutions to COVID. Yeah. That is a very justified feeling? You’re not the only one having it. You are completely entitled to have that feeling. And… you are doing an absolutely remarkable job. 

01:06:23

Biz

Host

Woo! Wow. Wow, and wow. I… really enjoyed today’s show. And you know, sometimes when we’re recording this show, we’re recording things in not the same order that they are [through laughter] all put back together and released as. So today, for example, I talked to our wonderful guest after having listened to our rant. And again, the question of… is there also anger in there, that you’re feeling, by feeling overlooked. Due to masks. And I—I am, of course, appreciative that we started out with what meditation can be and what mindfulness can be. But I am so glad we ended on the anger piece. And if you have not heard about the primal screaming, make sure you check out the show notes to look into that.

I think that it’s really okay if we start talking more and more about anger. And just like in meditation, I will be thinking about it and then I will—that voice will come in that said, “No, no, no, no, no! Nope. Nope. Let’s—let’s talk about something happy!” [Laughs.] “Let’s do something nice! Go listen to something upbeat!” And I think… I think I’ve gotta just keep resetting that bar! Keep coming back to the introspection about the anger. So I just—I really had a good time on the show today. [Laughs.] So everybody? Remember what you’re feeling is… probably somewhere in the range of normal and you’re not the only one. I think what she said was really valid about those places where you might think, should I go and talk to somebody because maybe this isn’t as normal. That’s fine. There’s no harm in talking to somebody and being told, “Yes! That is totally normal! You’re fine.” Or, “Well, let’s talk more about this! Let’s maybe see if we can help.” Mental health is important and normal. Normal! [Laughs.] Normal! Having kids and having depression or anger or anxiety? That’s normal! Okay? Just ‘cause you have kids in your house doesn’t mean suddenly you’re supposed to have none of those things, else you’re somehow horrible. That’s not true. You’re actually doing an amazing job. You’re not alone. And I will talk to you next week. Bye!

01:09:21

Music

Music

“Mama Blues” by Cornbread Ted and the Butterbeans. Strumming acoustic guitar with harmonica and lyrics.

I got the lowdown momma blues

Got the the lowdown momma blues

Gots the lowdown momma blues

The lowdown momma blues. 

Gots the lowdown momma blues

Got the lowdown momma blues

You know that’s right.

[Music fades.]

01:09:43

Biz

Host

We’d like to thank MaxFun; our producer, Gabe Mara; our husbands, Stefan Lawrence and Jesse Thorn; our perfect children, who provide us with inspiration to say all these horrible things; and of course, you, our listeners. To find out more about the songs you heard on today’s podcast and more about the show, please go to MaximumFun.org/onebadmother. For information about live shows, our book and press, please check out OneBadMotherPodcast.com.

01:10:13

Theresa

Host

One Bad Mother is a member of the Maximum Fun family of podcasts. To support the show go to MaximumFun.org/join.

[Music resumes for a while before fading out.]

01:10:36

Music

Transition

A cheerful ukulele chord.

01:10:38

Speaker 1

Guest

MaximumFun.org.

01:10:39

Speaker 2

Guest

Comedy and culture.

01:10:40

Speaker 3

Guest

Artist owned—

01:10:41

Speaker 4

Guest

—Audience supported.