TRANSCRIPT One Bad Mother Episode 442: We Are All In This Together! I Hope. with Muretta Moss

00:00:00

Biz Ellis

Host

Hi. I’m Biz.

00:00:01

Theresa Thorn

Host

And I’m Theresa.

00:00:02

Biz 

Host

Due to the pandemic, we bring you One Bad Mother straight from our homes—including such interruptions as: children! Animal noises! And more! So let’s all get a little closer while we have to be so far apart. And remember—we are doing a good job.

00:00:20

Music

Music

“Summon the Rawk” by Kevin MacLeod. Driving electric guitar and heavy drums.

[Continues through dialogue.]

00:00:24

Biz 

Host

This week on One Bad Mother—we are all in this together… I hope. We talk about coparenting from the stepparents’ perspective with Muretta Moss from the podcast, Counter Parenting. Plus, Biz needs a cookie!

00:00:38

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz and caller: Woooo!

00:00:43

Caller

Caller

I am doing a great job! 

[Biz shrieks.]

My family is moving across the country. 

[Biz makes “blech” noise.]

We are moving sixteen hours away to a completely different state! And in the past several weeks, I have been doing all of the shit! I’ve got movers! I have organized pet care! I have organized home and a house and buying a house and I’ve done all the shit and today? I locked down childcare for my kid. I know what school she’s going to! And I put down the deposit! After calling all of the places and figuring out who has space! And I’m just doing it! And I’m kicking ass!

[Biz laughs.] 

And I’m doing it all during a pandemic! Wooooo! 

[Biz laughs.] 

I’m just really proud of myself. I’m doing a great job. So are you. Bye!

00:01:32

Biz 

Host

You might be doing a better job than me right now. You are doing such a great job! I—wow! Wow! I just think that executive search committees should start by looking at parents. The very first qualification should be—are there kids in your house? And then other key items would be, have you had to move those kids across country? Right? Have you navigated the United States educational system? Check! You might be overqualified to run a company. That is incredible. I was impressed when you said you had taken care of the pets. But then… the school! I mean… wow! You’re not even there yet! You… are… amazing! And you should feel as good as you feel about how amazing you are! You are amazing! You should actually make a little list of that and then write, “See? See what I did?” And then stick that in places so that when you’re not feeling this great you can be like, “Ohhh! Yeah, I’m awesome. I’m awesome.” You’re doing an amazing job. 

Speaking of people doing amazing jobs during a pandemic—it’s time for thank-you’s!

00:02:54

Music

Music

Heavy electric guitar and driving percussion overlaid with “Ohh, oh-oh, oh-oh” and “Hey-ey-ey-ey-ey-ey” lyrics.

00:03:08

Biz 

Host

Guys, we know who’s on the list for thank-you’s. Right? Because the pandemic is still going on. To varying degrees in various places and… we’re all being affected by—or have been deeply affected by and are still trying to recover from—all the different things this pandemic has thrown at us. Just because in your neighborhood, people are tootling along just fine as if the pandemic is over? That doesn’t mean that it is not still an issue for the neighborhood next door. Right? So hospitals are still nuts right now. So are doctors—have you tried to make an appointment? ‘Cause you’re—the soonest you’re getting in is next year. For the most basic of things. Because the doctors and the medical staff and the people who help make hospitals and doctors’ offices run? Are tired. Or sick. Or… broken. Alright? So—[Laughs.] So… once again, thank you. To everyone who works in the medical industry, from those of you who keep it clean and sterilized to those of you who are—I dunno—operating on people’s brains. And everybody in-between, you are amazing. 

Teachers? Will I ever tire of thanking you? Nope. I won’t. Thank you, thank you. Thank you, thank you. Thank you, teachers. Thank you all the people—things have to get from A to B around here and it’s not magic. There’s not an owl that gets it from, y’know, Alabama up to Oregon. There are people who are literally shipping all those things that we need and that we bought online so we didn’t have to expose ourselves. There is somebody making it so we don’t have to expose ourselves. So I wanna say thank you to those people. And also thank you for not exposing yourself. Unless, y’know, you live in a community where that kind of thing is like totally smiled upon. 

Also, thank you volunteers. Those of you who are out there helping those who cannot help themselves in a time such as these. And… the list goes on forever! Bus drivers? Geez Louise! You gotta be in a bus with people who you can’t really, y’know, check! That is very impressive. School bus drivers, also—big thank you.

00:05:53

Biz 

Host

Speaking of getting from A to B and making things work, I have been deeply affected by this pandemic. Girl Scout cookies are not getting to me. [Laughs.] There is apparently a crazy cookie shortage in the Los Angeles area. Alright? So I did not order—first of all, Raiden? Not with Girl Scouts anymore. So I don’t have the sweet cookie hookup that I once did. A lot of people are doing it online. And I chose not to. I was like, “I know that there are two kids on my street, and I have spoken to their parents. And I have said if they want the door-to-door experience, send ‘em down. I’m ready. And… FYI, my parents will be here on this day. And they are loose with the money when it comes to Girl Scout cookies.” [Laughs.] 

And so the first of the two kids on our street comes to my house. Literally they’re on the porch giving their spiel next to their mom. Every time they call out a cookie, you would hear like numbers from inside. “Two boxes! Four! Make that four boxes—so we’re gonna need six boxes of those. We're gonna need—" I mean, like, between my family and my parents, we must have ordered… easily twenty boxes of cookies. Okay? And then we sent the Girl Scout on their way. And the mom was like, “Look, they’re gonna be in on Tuesday. We’re picking ‘em up Monday. We can’t distribute ‘em ‘til Tuesday. We’ll bring ‘em Tuesday.” Tuesday comes and goes. Wednesday comes and goes. A few days come and go, and finally I gave ‘em a little text. And I said, “Hey! Checking on—[Laughs.] Checking in on those cookies!” 

To which the reply was, “There is an insane cookie shortage. Even the online orders cannot be fulfilled. It’s chaos. I will let you know when I have some cookies.” And I was like, hot damn. So then the mother of the other kid on my street who sells cookies was walking by and I was like, “What’s the deal with the cookies? You guys haven’t come by to sell cookies!” And she was like, “You should see the Los Angeles cookie Facebook page! People are [through laughter] like, ‘Do you have two Samoas? I just need two Samoas! I’ll trade you—‘” She’s like, “I can’t even get hold of a Toffeetastic.” Who the fuck likes Toffeetastic besides people who are gluten free? It’s the only cookie you have. It’s not that bad. It’s okay. It makes a good pie crust. Anyhoo, even the Toffeetastics cannot be gotten. Basically, if you ordered online, most of those have been fulfilled. But there are still a lot that haven’t. Moms and the Girl Scouts are trying to—“Can we get ‘em from the Orange County distribution bakery? Can we—” I don’t know! I don’t know what’s happened! But I kind of revel in the chaos that is cookie distribution shortage in Los Angeles. And I love the idea of all these, like, parents being like, “You’re gonna solve this problem. You are gonna go—if we have to bake these damn cookies ourselves.” I love it. I’m looking forward to all the Girl Scouts getting a badge in Crisis Cookie Management and Customer Service. And I look forward to—I dunno—eventually getting some cookies. Won’t it be nice when I eventually get them. 

Speaking of parents working together to solve a problem—[Laughs.] Today, we are gonna talk about coparenting from a stepparents’ perspective with Muretta Moss of the new podcast Counter Parenting.

00:09:52

Music

Music

Banjo strums; cheerful banjo music continues through dialogue.

00:09:53

Theresa

Host

Please—take a moment to remember: If you’re friends of the hosts of One Bad Mother, you should assume that when we talk about other moms, we’re talking about you.

00:10:00

Biz 

Host

If you are married to the host of One Bad Mother, we definitely are talking about you.

00:10:04

Theresa

Host

Nothing we say constitutes professional parenting advice.

00:10:07

Biz 

Host

Biz and Theresa’s children are brilliant, lovely, and exceedingly extraordinary.

00:10:11

Theresa

Host

Nothing said on this podcast about them implies otherwise.

[Banjo music fades out.] 

[Biz and her guest repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss the weekly topic.]

00:10:15

Biz 

Host

This week we are talking to Muretta Moss, who is an actress and writer known for The Glorias, Nickelodeon’s live-action holiday movie A Loud House Christmas, and The Game. She recently lodged a podcast called Counter Parenting about coparenting from a stepparent’s perspective. Outside of acting, Moss is passionate about voting rights and volunteers with Fair Fight Action during election cycles. She lives in Atlanta, Georgia. Welcome, Murettaaaa!

00:10:44

Muretta Moss

Guest

Thank you!

00:10:45

Biz 

Host

[Clapping] Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo, woo, woo! We’re clapping.

[Muretta laughs.] 

00:10:48

Muretta 

Guest

We are. We’re clapping and woo-ing. It’s great to be here! thank you!

00:10:51

Biz 

Host

Yes! Of course! Before we get into the podcast, I wanna ask what we ask all our guests, which is—who lives in your house?

00:10:59

Muretta 

Guest

Sure! So I live in my house. This is not in any particular order of importance. But it’s me.

[Biz laughs.] 

It’s my cat. [Laughs.] And then—and then there’s my partner, and we’ve—we’re not married but we’ve been together for—I dunno—in the scheme of things, not the longest but long enough. And then he has two kids. That’s why I have two step kids. That are ages ten and six. That’s our little household! Yeah!

00:11:30

Biz 

Host

That’s plenty!

00:11:32

Muretta 

Guest

And I gotta say, those—but that’s half the time. We have this quiet household and then we have the rambunctious household. 

[Biz laughs.] 

So it just depends on which day you walk in.

00:11:42

Biz 

Host

Talk about extra pivoting. I know that for me getting to walk around the Rose Bowl, for example, to get a little exercise. It clears my mind and I’m feeling reasonable. And then I walk in and that’s shot to hell. That just feels amped up by a thousand if you’re sharing custody with somebody, and then they step out for a certain number of days or weeks or whatever? And then back in! That would be disorienting!

00:12:07

Muretta 

Guest

So in my head it kind of is like… right now, because they’re in school and we did virtual school last year, it’s just like they are in my head it’s like they’re just—they go to school and they don’t come back. So it’s just like this extended school. It’s weird. But it is—as far as disorienting, I think it would be more disorienting for me and my—this is like such a double-edged sword. We would love to have the kids full-time. I would, too. But it’s very nice to have that recharge. And a moment where like… laundry build-up stops. After our weekends, I can do just through big loads of laundry and then it just—but they’re here half the time so a couple times during the week, but the weekend build-up always—I don’t know.

00:12:54

Biz 

Host

Well that’s—‘cause y’know, being a parent—when a kid gets in your house or, in some cases, you get in a kid’s house—kids are in the house—we all get to wrestle with guilt and self-judgment, as well as feeling judged. And we have talked to no end on this show about the things that you’re not supposed to say. We don’t think we’re supposed to say. And I’m thinking about what you just said! And it was so—it was so good! This notion of… it being a double-edged sword. It’s sort of like we say on the show, it gets to be both. You get to like, “Yay! I have kids in my house!” You also get to be like, “Oh my god, I’m not a person anymore. I’m so tired. I’m barely alive. It has nothing to do with my kid. It’s just this—it would be great to sometimes not have a kid in my house!” Right? But ooh! You’re not supposed to say that! Everything’s a fucking gift! And so that so obviously must apply to people who share custody or coparent. Yeah. 

00:14:03

Muretta 

Guest

I think sometimes even because it’s not this—I’m not best friends with the ex-wife and we don’t do things together. It can be relatively hostile at times. And I am just on the sidelines watching. So I just feel like I have to be extra careful because things just get taken out of context or I don’t want anyone to put on a podcast and hear me say, “I don’t want the kids and—"

00:14:30

Biz 

Host

Yeah! No shit! Because that’s not true! [Laughs.] 

00:14:32

Muretta 

Guest

Right! It is not true! But that is something that might happen. So…

00:14:40

Biz 

Host

Oh my god! What a nightmare! I’m so sorry!

00:14:44

Muretta 

Guest

It is a nightmare! I mean, thank you, but it just is! It’s like the worst… when it’s a stereotype of it kind of feels like that. And I’m not!

00:14:56

Biz 

Host

Living in a trope. [Laughs.] Of some kind.

00:14:58

Muretta 

Guest

Yes! That’s it! It’s a trope. It is. It’s a trope. And then I try and—I don’t know. I know I’m not perfect, and so I—and I love being honest about how difficult it is? Sometimes? And—

00:15:15

Biz 

Host

I guess it’s that’s such an unfair place… That’s an unfair lens. To have to be in.

00:15:23

Muretta 

Guest

It… it… [sighs.] Yeah! I mean, I—when I think of myself in this relationship and family, I—I a lot of times will grab onto like, “It’s not fair!” but then I’m like, “Oh, the kids!” Whether they are listening or—like, whatever they’re witnessing, they can at the very least feel… tension. Like, they can feel conflict. And especially when it’s your parents that don’t get along. And y’know, it’s not like yelling and screaming fights, but it’s just like undercuts a lot. 

00:15:57

Biz 

Host

Yeah. So the name of the podcast is Counter Parenting. 

00:16:04

Muretta 

Guest

Yeah. The Counter Parenting podcast.

00:16:06

Biz 

Host

Yes. Which is a phrase that I was not familiar with. The notion of counter parenting. So… can you explain what counter parenting means? Like, what that… phrasing means?

00:16:20

Muretta 

Guest

Sure. It’s a phrase—a type of parenting that happens in divorced couples where one parent or maybe both parents are undermining the other parent in the relationship. When you have coparenting, it’s when two people are amicably coparenting these kids are products of divorce together, and there’s trust and good communication and… the kids are put first. In counter parenting, it’s not that. It’s parents having power struggles. Wanting to be right. Undermining the parenting plan. So you’re dealing with the other parent just as much as you would coparenting—dropping the kids back and forth. There’s school stuff. There’s just—especially when they’re younger and adolescents, there’s so much that just—if there’s something that happens at school, like—who knows. Like field trips. Everything. Health concerns. Two parents are still involved in that. 

But it’s not… it’s like almost—if there’s not tension or problems at the time? It’s just like dipped for a moment and they’ll be right back there. It’s pretty unpleasant. And the other option to that is parallel parenting, where you just have it set up where you’re not dealing with the other parent at all. You follow the strict court rules and—because two people—the court has ruled two people can’t get along. But when you’re counter parenting, it’s sometimes so passive-aggressive and… and, y’know, you might show up to that—if it gets so mediation doesn’t work, that is what I’ve found. One just comes into the mediation and… [Laughs.] Doesn’t tell the truth! And when someone lies? It’s very, very difficult! [Laughs.] Because they—it seems like they believe what they say. I have like—it’s unfortunate, but I have a couple friends that are also—we have some similar paths with this. And I don’t like it! 

00:18:22

Biz 

Host

You’re a couple episodes into the podcast. And I gotta tell ya, it’s… it’s a really great idea for a podcast. Because I don’t think—and I could be wrong—what are the resources like out there for people who find themselves suddenly in a position as a stepparent or as the caregiver who is stepping into the situation—are there good resources out there?

00:18:52

Muretta 

Guest

I haven’t found any. So… and even like joining online Facebook groups? It’s just not necessarily a healthy place. ‘Cause I think people need to vent sometimes and that is not—and even I, like, I could tell some stories over and over again. But I’m like, that is not—like, I wanna justify things? I wanna be like, “Look what’s happened!” But that’s not helpful at all. Y’know. So… when we’re talking about divorce, I mean, plenty of other people—but the kids—there’s resources for kids and there’s resources for the divorced parents. But the stepparents are usually, like, no one’s thinking about them ‘cause they’re not power players in this. They—I don’t have much of a say. I mean, I’m in a relationship and that is something, but as far as when we’re getting down to brass tacks. I am not—

00:19:47

Biz 

Host

Yeah, but you’ve got—don’t count—don’t sell yourself short. You’ve got power being a support for your partner and just being a support for your kids. Sometimes in situations like this, I would imagine you just have one calm porch in the storm, as it were, that stays kinda—would be a really—would be a gift! Like, you get to—I mean, you get to be whatever role you fucking wanna be. I’m just saying. [Laughs.] I’m just saying, you do have power! Don’t sell yourself short! You’re—[Laughs.] 

00:20:17

Muretta 

Guest

Well thank you. Thank you. It just sometimes [through laughter] feels like that. Yeah.

00:20:22

Biz 

Host

Of course! Of course. So in your first episode where you’re kind of setting up what the podcast is gonna be about, you talk about questions you wished you had asked in the beginning and that you’re hoping that through the podcast, those questions—you can save people some of the effort. So I guess my first question is—what were some of those questions you wished you had asked at the beginning?

00:20:51

Muretta 

Guest

Well, I think one of them was, “What is in the parenting plan? What are things supposed to—how is this, on paper, actually arranged?” Because I—things just seem to be the way they are ‘cause that’s what’s worked out best? But they’re most likely the way they are because of this plan, which can’t be changed. Like, I didn’t know—and I still have so many questions about the parenting plan, because you have to live—

00:21:22

Biz 

Host

Okay! Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa. Parenting plan. 

00:21:24

Muretta 

Guest

Parenting plan.

00:21:25

Biz 

Host

I know. ‘K. Just—

[Muretta laughs.] 

—for those of us that are idiots, tell me what a parenting—and most of the time my idiocracy comes from just not having asked the question. So here’s my question!

00:21:38

Muretta 

Guest

Or not being divorced! [Laughs.] 

00:21:40

Biz 

Host

Or not being divorced! That’s right. Y’know. Day ain’t over yet. No. But you’re right. Our parenting—this is—it’s sort of like for families who adopt? Y’know, I just got drunk and fooled around. Right? 

[Muretta laughs.] 

But people who adopt have to go through so much more stuff just to get a kid in their house. And you’re right. We don’t have a parenting plan. I mean, we—you know what I mean? [Laughs.] So tell me—what is a parenting plan?

00:22:09

Muretta 

Guest

Yeah! Well it’s something that is—when you get a divorce and you have kids, the—your lawyers draft a plan of like, when do you have the kids? What time are you supposed to pick them up? Who has them for Christmas? Who has them for Thanksgiving? And it’s very wordy. Sometimes it’s like on even-numbered years until the day before school is in regular session, the dad will have the kids. On odd years, the mother will. But it’s also like—sometimes this parenting plan—if it’s your first—most people it’s their first time getting divorced? So they also don’t have experience with a parenting plan! And then it gets written and it’s all this legal jargon and you’re like, “Uh, okay.” And they sign off on it, not understanding what is actually going to be the best for them and their kids. Like, it’s weird language and in ours it’s like “at 9AM kids’ custody kind of changes over.” But it’s like, they’re at school at 9AM. But days that they’re not in school, 9AM is actually one of the worst time. You most likely have to be at work at nine or, y’know, you don’t—if someone’s being a real whatever, like, can you drop the kids off at eight? If it’s their day? It’s just—so all these things. I didn’t know what a parenting plan was either when I stepped into the relationship. And it seemed like, “Oh, things are just like… they’ve talked about it and this is what’s worked out.” But that’s not the case. And like… [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

00:23:37

Biz 

Host

I’m sorry. I’m not laughing—I’m just like, “That’s not—you’re right! No! Not even a little what I thought.” Like, just—because you can barely make decisions about—if there’s one thing I know to be true about parenting, is that it is constantly changing. And don’t get your hopes up that it’s settled ‘cause it’s not. Oh, it’s worse! Each kid’s different! Jeez! Why didn’t somebody tell me they weren’t going to respond to the same things? That is a nightmare! So let’s say you make your parent—like, how much leeway is there in parenting planning to change it? Because like, nine o’clock for example might’ve made sense three years ago. But it doesn’t now. And with COVID… a lot of times—like, we were talking to somebody last week who was like, “Yeah, the kids were supposed to go to their mom’s but we got COVID so we all had to stay together.” Blech! And I know that your second interview was talking with a lawyer. [Laughs.] So… I mean, you could spend a whole thing just on parenting plans, obviously. So—

00:24:47

Muretta 

Guest

Need a follow-up episode with that lawyer. Yeah. [Laughs.] 

00:24:49

Biz 

Host

I know! How fluid are these things? 

00:24:52

Muretta 

Guest

Well, it depends on your relationship with the other parent! Because if you’re coparenting as should be, it should be easy. Right? It should be, “Oh, you know what? This actually works best for the kids. Let’s do that.” But when you’re counter parenting, what it—[sighs]. There should be fluidity, but there oftentimes isn’t and someone will be like, “Well that’s not what the parenting plan says” and not offer help or—

00:25:21

Biz 

Host

Come up with an adjustment. Come up with a, y’know. And I—I will say I am sure I have a friend who’s going—starting this process. And I gotta say, there’s—I am sure there are times where… one of the partners would be like, “No, we have to stick to it. Because if we don’t stick to it, slippery slope.” Right? That’s—again—just this extra layer that all of you are dealing with on top of the super-easy job it is to have kids in your house. So—[Laughs.] Oh, and life. And everything else that you’re trying to juggle. [Laughs.] 

00:25:59

Muretta 

Guest

Totally! 

00:26:01

Biz 

Host

Yeah.

00:26:02

Muretta 

Guest

It’s challenging when—yeah. You’re just not on the same page and that’s one of the reasons why you got the divorce, I guess.

[Biz laughs.] 

Yeah. And there’s just like weird things—my biggest thing that I think of is like this—there’s a thirty-mile radius that the parents are allowed to live within? But I’m not sure where that starts! Because one—they move out. They move in different places. One’s here, one’s here, but that’s kind of in a temporary ‘til we find the other place. And then this one moves over here. But is it from these—like, where’s the—where is the center part of the circle?

00:26:39

Biz 

Host

The center. The radius. Yes. I’m pointing, too. We’re both pointing to the center of the radius. Right? Like yeah, does it shift or is it the same spot that started when you first—

00:26:52

Muretta 

Guest

Yeah! When the divorce started!

[Biz laughs.] 

00:26:56

Biz 

Host

Where the divorce started! It started in this bar. [Laughs.] 

[Muretta laughs.] 

It started at, y’know, Chili’s To on a Saturday. You gotta live thirty minutes outside of Chili’s To. Are there any other questions that you were like—okay. Clearly, parent plan is a big one. So… are there other ones that you wish you had asked? I mean, that’s a big one. But.

00:27:19

Muretta 

Guest

Um, I think I would’ve been—I wish I was more clear as to… my—like, expectations. But it’s all in hindsight. Because when we were dating it was just like, “Oh, y’know, you don’t have to do anything.” [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

And then—[Laughs.] And then, like, y’know. He was like Superman over here just chilling like he’s this dad and he does it all. But then—but that doesn’t work! You get exhausted! And he—you can’t do it all. And so I think just constant conversations about—with my partner of like, “Okay. This is where we’re at. What do you want?” Because I very much resist the inclination that I am supposed to be home cooking dinner and cleaning the clothes and stuff. Like, that is something that I’m like, “I am not a Stepford—” Whatever that connotation is? Yeah.

00:28:23

Biz 

Host

Whatever that trope is! But a lot of women, in particular, in a traditional setting of getting married, having kids, regardless of careers, regardless of what they were—regardless of whatever they were like, “Never.” A lot of stuff—those sort of jobs fall onto them. You turn around—you look over your shoulder and suddenly you’re like, “How? If I cook dinner one more time, I’m gonna literally bomb it.” Right? Like, “I cannot believe I am cooking dinner every night! Every night! It’s so weird!” Right? Like, you—

[Muretta laughs.] 

It’s like it gets a little crazy. But stepping into it—oh my god, I could ask questions all day. And the thing is, it’s different in every situation. But like—stepping in… I mean, talk about conversations you have to be having! Over and over and over! To be checking in on… needs and support and roles and… yeah! 

00:29:27

Muretta 

Guest

Yeah!

00:29:29

Biz 

Host

Okay. You’re a few episodes in. Is there anything that you’ve sort of discovered… that you didn’t think was gonna be coming out of doing podcasts like this? I mean, really—I know you’re only like four in. But it can only be one episode where you go, “Oh, I didn’t even know we were ever gonna go here.” Or “I’d like to go more here.” Or… “Wow!” [Laughs.] 

00:29:55

Muretta 

Guest

So there’s a couple things. First, I didn’t realize how much work a podcast was! [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

I cannot believe—like, hats off to you. This is… 

[Biz laughs.] 

It’s—it’s work! So—not that I didn’t think it wouldn’t be work? But I didn’t think—like, to have something that is professional and stuff, first ya have to talk in complete sentences. Which—

00:30:19

Biz 

Host

Yeah. That’s—it’s hard.

00:30:21

Muretta 

Guest

Well, at least that’s pressure I put on myself. Sure. It’s hard. [Laughs.] 

00:30:23

Biz 

Host

It’s hard! I’m with you!

00:30:25

Muretta 

Guest

But I think—y’know, to be… serious, like, I didn’t realize that there are no actual answers to stepparenting. Like, if everything just depends on the situation and it depends on the kids and you have to do different kids and it depends on the week. And not to say that’s disempowering, but it was like, “Okay, well I’m doing the best I can and I—” Sometimes there was just a lot of permission given to me to just be like, “Okay. We’re kind of right on track with—[Laughs.] With where the kids are developmentally and where I am in part of it.” Which is something that I don’t necessarily enjoy ‘cause I would rather have real results and real, like, “Do this and then this’ll happen.” So it’s just mushy.

00:31:15

Biz 

Host

It's so disappointing. Isn’t it? 

[Muretta laughs.] 

Y’know, it goes back to the like… there is no one set of rules that fits all kids. But people make a shit-ton of money selling books that are supposed to tell you. And then when it doesn’t work—when whatever the solution to making your child eat a vegetable or sleep or stop doing X, Y, or Z, right? Like, it—augggh! ‘Cause sometimes the rules make you feel like you are supposed to be working harder! And that there should be a result. And there rarely is. Like… I just was thinking about this and my youngest, who is… eight. Um, I got there, everybody. [Laughs.] 

[Muretta laughs.] 

00:32:00

Muretta 

Guest

You know!

00:32:02

Biz 

Host

My youngest that’s eight—people who’ve listened to the show know swimming was just not something we were able to do. Like, he just… I swear I was like, “Somebody needs to invent ear goggles.” Because it’s like whatever that sensation was, he could not go under. And you live in California and you’re like, “Everybody’s gotta learn how to like—aahhh!” Right? And then some people would say nasty things like, “You’ll be responsible for your child’s death.” And I was like, “Jesus, everybody! All I’m doing is just saying my kid is struggling with learning this thing.” We stepped away, and now—many years later—he’s like, “I’m ready to learn how to swim.” It wound up totally being okay. [Laughs.] Despite thinking it wasn’t. [Laughs.] 

00:32:47

Muretta 

Guest

Yeah! And what a lesson, though, because it is just like—they’re not being so outcome-driven. Which it just… living in the present and doing the best you can. Because yeah! Kids grow! And they change! And they want to learn how to swim eventually! [Laughs.] 

00:33:03

Biz 

Host

Yeah! They just—eventually! Right? Or they’ll be like my friend who didn’t learn ‘til she was like thirty and like was terrified. I was like, “I don’t want that for him!”

[Muretta laughs.] 

“There are too many pools everywhere!” But to go back and ask—you say “I don’t wanna be—I didn’t wanna step in. I wanted to step in with boundaries. Of like… what my—your personal expectations were.” And again, knowing that those can be fluid. But what about pressure to… fix it all? Was that there? Was there a pressure to try and—I mean, I feel like that’s gotta be some kind of like… weird phase you’d go through for like a second. Before you realize, “No, that’s dumb.” [Laughs.] 

00:33:49

Muretta 

Guest

Yeah. Did I wanna fix everything? Yes. I wanted to come in as the fun—the fun one. 

[Biz cheers, makes laser gun noises, laughs.]

“You can come to me. Talk about anything you want. I am here.”

[Biz laughs.] 

Yeah. Nothing but love. And then… then I was like, “Please—please don’t throw that! Don’t throw that vase! Please!” [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

00:34:14

Biz 

Host

That’s right! That’s right!

00:34:16

Muretta 

Guest

As they hurl it. Yeah.

00:34:18

Biz 

Host

As it flies through the air. Right past your head. “What do you mean you guys don’t wanna sit around and listen to me play guitar? I don’t understand! What? We don’t wanna have a family band? Why can’t we have a family band?”

00:34:29

Muretta 

Guest

Oh my gosh, I would love a family band.

00:34:31

Biz 

Host

Wouldn’t a family band be amazing? I know. It will never happen. Sorry. I think you have to have, like… I don’t… I don’t know. A, probably be able to play instruments.

00:34:42

Muretta 

Guest

Yeah. That’s probably the biggest one.

00:34:43

Biz 

Host

That’s a big one. Yeah. Well. That also—also helps.

00:34:48

Muretta 

Guest

And also like a big house with layers so that like… they can—there’s practice in the basement?

00:34:53

Biz 

Host

Yeah, something else I have—yeah. Something else I have learned is your kids have to have interest in it. When they don’t… it’s really hard to get them to be in a family band. Y’know? They just don’t wanna do it. [Laughs.] 

00:35:06

Muretta 

Guest

If it was on an iPad. If there was family band on an iPad, I think we could do it.

00:35:11

Biz 

Host

We could probably do like a Switch family band. Right? Like, y’know, some sort of—

00:35:17

Muretta 

Guest

Virtual.

00:35:18

Biz 

Host

Video—yeah, virtual. What was that old—?

00:35:20

Muretta 

Guest

Guitar Hero?

00:35:22

Biz 

Host

Yes! Thank you! Guitar Hero. Now if we even had the space to have that game again? 100% we could be a family band! That would be the ultimate family band. Alright. Thank you so much for coming on this show. I have to tell you, I really wish the greatest success to the podcast. I think—

00:35:44

Muretta 

Guest

Thanks!

00:35:45

Biz 

Host

—it is a… good thing to have out there in the world. And yeah. You’re doing a good job in a situation that you have, y’know, not the most control over. So good job!

00:35:58

Muretta 

Guest

Yeah. I don’t wanna play victim, but I like—‘cause I’m not. But yeah. Sometimes as a stepparent you don’t have a lot of control! But thanks! But it’s also really vulnerable. Don’t you feel—I mean, you probably are used to it now, but I was like, “Oh gosh!”

00:36:10

Biz 

Host

Well everybody knows I’ll talk about fucking anything.

[Muretta laughs.] 

And I’ll never lie to listeners. I may not take a certain subject on, and certainly as kids get older—I mean, not that this podcast was ever about our kids.

[Muretta laughs.] 

But you gotta be a little more mindful and blah, blah, blah. And when ya step in it, ya gotta be prepared to clean it off your shoe with lots of learning and apologies. So like…

00:36:40

Muretta 

Guest

Okay. Yeah.

00:36:41

Biz 

Host

Yeah. It’s—y’know. You… language is constantly evolving. And… that’s great thing. And I think regardless of the topic, we gotta keep talking about this stuff. Because if you don’t, everybody’s gonna continue to think that, “If I step into a divorced situation I’m supposed to do X, Y, and Z.” Or “I’m not supposed to have these feelings.” And just as a woman you’re supposed to probably love it and just naturally—it’s like fucking Overboard. Right? With Goldie Hawn. Which dates me. Shows you guys where I am in my life. Seven Brides for Seven Brothers. Let’s just—“I’m just gonna take this woman and she’s gonna just suddenly clean everything up and take care of my children!” Not. Not a good role model. But good songs. So thank you, Muretta, so much. We’re gonna link everybody up to—you guys know where to find podcasts. But we’re gonna make sure that you find the right one, as well as anything else you’d like us to share. Thank you so much for joining us!

00:37:49

Muretta 

Guest

Well thank you! It was a pleasure. Yeah!

00:37:51

Biz 

Host

It wasss!

00:37:53

Muretta 

Guest

It was.

00:37:54

Music

Music

“Ones and Zeroes” by “Awesome.” Steady, driving electric guitar with drum and woodwinds.

[Music fades out.]

00:38:11

Music

Promo

Cheerful ukulele with whistling plays in background.

00:38:12

Biz 

Promo

One Bad Mother is supported in part by Green Chef. Green Chef is America’s #1 Meal Kit for eating well, with dinners that work for you—not the other way around! Green Chef is also now owned by HelloFresh, and with a wider array of meal plans to choose from, there is something for everyone! I have always enjoyed HelloFresh, and I just recently tried Green Chef. I gotta tell ya, that was good stuff! In fact, just last night we had the Honey Pork Chops with Lemon Rice and a Apple Kale Salad and it was fricking delicious! It was so good! [Laughs.] And tonight, we are having the Italian Caprese Burgers. Capreesay? Capressay? I don’t know. Delicious! In my mouth! Go to GreenChef.com/badmother130 and use code “badmother130” to get $130 off, plus free shipping! That’s GreenChef.com/badmother130 and code “badmother130” to get $130 off, plus free shipping.

[Music fades out.]

00:39:23

Music

Promo

Inspirational keyboard music plays in background.

00:39:24

Biz 

Promo

One Bad Mother is supported in part by KiwiCo. KiwiCo is defining the future of play by making it engaging, enriching, and really fun! Basically, your child can get super-cool, hands-on, science, art, and geography projects delivered to their door every month. Woo! Both Raiden and Ellis have been playing with KiwiCo kits forever. Forever! Back from the projects that they needed some adult assistance with—like Robotic Claw, or the Pinball Game that you made from scratch—to the stuff that they can do now that they’re older. Ellis made a really cool trebuchet recently. That was awesome. Redefine learning with play. Explore hands-on projects that build creative confidence and problem-solving skills with KiwiCo. Get 50% off your first month, plus free shipping on any crate line, with code “badmother” at KiwiCo.com. That’s 50% off your first month at K-I-W-I-C-O.com, promo code “badmother.”

[Music fades out.]

00:40:30

Theresa

Host

Hey, you know what it’s time for! This week’s genius and fails! This is the part of the show where we share our genius moment of the week, as well as our failures, and feel better about ourselves by hearing yours. You can share some of your own by calling 206-350-9485. That’s 206-350-9485.

00:40:50

Biz 

Host

Genius fail time. Genius me, me.

00:40:54

Clip

Clip

[Dramatic, swelling music in background.]

Biz: Wow! Oh my God! Oh my God! I saw what you did! Oh my God! I’m paying attention! Wow! You, mom, are a genius. Oh my God, that’s fucking genius!

00:41:09

Biz 

Host

Okay. So… for Christmas, I got gift cards from my parents. I always like to ask for gift cards to my favorite clothing store. And then whenever I want, I can go try stuff on. It’s like a treat. Get out and do it. Except we’re in the pandemic when I ordered all those blue jeans that were the wrong size. I’m trying to find happiness, and that didn’t work. But I went in with my gift card, and I… I walked by and saw a jumpsuit. Now, I am… not usually a jumpsuit wearer? Okay? I do like an overall every once in a while. But I’m not usually a jumpsuit wearer. And it wasn’t on sale. But I tried it on. 

And I was like, “Huh. I can maybe pull this off. This is different. It’s different. It’s both casual yet elevated. I’m gonna do it! Because I’ve got this gift card. I don’t need another pair of jeans. [Laughs.] I will get it.” And I got it. Then it sat in the closet for like two weeks and I—as you know, or may know, I have been very busy over the last couple of weeks sort of between the loss of our pet Onion. Steve had some surgery. Things were not very clean in this house for a while as a result of those things. And caring for my father, who is recovering from dental surgery. I—there weren’t a lot of showers happening? 

And finally, yesterday, I took a shower. Rolled my hair in my hot rollers. And I put on the jumper—the little jumpsuit—and I went to my parents’ apartment to of course do something. And both of them were like, “What is this outfit? This is the greatest thing! It looks so good on you!” Blah, blah, blah! And I was like, “Okay! Well, thank you! That’s very nice.” And then I came home, and both kids on completely separate occasions were like, “I really like that on you!” And I was like, “Hot dog! I just—wooo!” Anyway. Sometimes it helps to put a little lipstick on, as my mother used to say. [Laughs.] Interpret that as you will. But I felt pretty good in my jumpsuit! [Laughs.] 

00:43:27

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

Hello! I’m calling with a genius. Dinnertime, y’know, everyone’s always hungry. Like, hangry-hungry. They’re two and three. Almost four. They’re two and three right now. My genius is that I’m giving them a popsicle. I’m cooking dinner at the stove and my husband is managing the popsicle meltdown. I’m not sure if it’s broken or if it’s the wrong color, but they’re occupied with that instead of bothering me while I’m cooking. And anyway. We’re doing a great job! Bye. 

[Biz laughs.] 

00:43:58

Biz 

Host

It’s pretty nice. Popsicles I think are a really good reminder. A, you’re doing an amazing job. You’re a genius. Popsicles take a little effort. Right? Yeah. They’re messy. This is not a solution or a genius for people who don’t like sticky children or sticky areas around children. But if you’re trying to get something done, giving a kid a plate and a popsicle—or throwing a towel over them and giving them a popsicle—is… such a time filler! It’s—put ‘em—I think we had somebody call once who said they just put their kids in the bathtub with popsicles. Also genius. Also genius. You’re doing a great job. Failures.

00:44:43

Clip

Clip

[Dramatic orchestral music plays in the background.]

Theresa: [In a voice akin to the Wicked Witch of the West] Fail. Fail. Fail. FAIL!

[Timpani with foot pedal engaged for humorous effect.]

Biz: [Calmly] You suck!

00:44:49

Biz 

Host

Fail me, me. Okay! I will. I will do it. Alright. I cannot remember if I’ve shared this, and I apologize if I have. But it’s still stunning to me. As you may remember, right around the MaxFunDrive last year, Stefan and I have been ripping up the backyard. To save money, we were gonna remove all the weeds and sod and grass—I mean, it’s barely grass back there, guys. Whatever is growing, we’re not growing in my yard. We ripped up. There may even be videos somewhere of me with a, y’know, pick. Picking away and shoveling and digging. And we found all this exciting stuff and it was like a treasure hunt in the backyard. And we got through over half of that yard, and then it got hot and we stopped. I mean, heat’s not gonna hurt anything. It’s just gonna keep killing it. 

And then we got that weird stuff that comes out of the sky in California every once in a while—rain, I think you call it? It rained [through laughter] for like a week. And I don’t even go in the backyard much anymore? Because I know it’s all torn up. But the other day I did wander back there. It’s all grown over. It is all—it is as if Stefan and I had never been there. It was—[Laughs.] It’s like that scene in the 1980s Creepshow movie where Stephen King touches that rock from outer space and then within an hour, everything’s covered in grass or moss. Space grass. Anyway! The entire backyard is green. Which… I guess is nice if you want grass. [Laughs.] 

00:46:40

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

Hi! This is a fail. This is the longest-running fail in my history of parenthood. [Sighs.] So. [Laughs.] I went to the dentist this morning. The last time that I had been at the dentist was pre-COVID. 2019 when I was pregnant with my daughter. And the reason that I went was because sometimes when I would chew on the left side of my mouth, I would have very, very intense but short-lived, like, 10/10 sharp, sharp, shooting pains. And so I was like, “I’ve gotta get this fixed. It doesn’t matter that I’m pregnant. I’ve gotta go see the dentist.” So I went and… the guy who was assessing me—I go to a student clinic—the guy who was assessing me is poking around in my mouth. Y’know, “Does this hurt? Does this hurt?” Nothing, nothing, nothing. Then finally he hits on something and I go through the roof. And… it was like a big discussion of, y’know, what should we do? What should we—what is the best course of treatment, given that I’m pregnant? Yada, yada. So anyway. That happens. Today I go in—

[Biz laughs.] 

—2022, three years later—and I say, “I’m really anxious about this appointment, y’all. Last time I was here you guys gave me really intense pain trying to diagnose what’s going on with my tooth and I need this fixed. This can’t keep going on. I’ve been chewing on the right side of my mouth for years and years.” And the guy looks at my chart and he says, “Well we did a filling for you in 2019.” And I texted my husband and he’s like—my husband’s like, “Yeah. Yes. There was a big discussion about that. You don’t remember getting it filled?”

[Biz laughs.] 

 And I’m like, “No! I don’t! At all!” And then he reminded me of like the horrible things they had to do to fill it. And I totally remembered it. And…

[Biz laughs.] 

They checked my mouth. Everything is fine. And like… it’s fixed! I’ve just been chewing on the right side of my mouth out of fucking habit for like three years! It’s just—

[Biz laughs.] 

—such a fail! I’m so embarrassed. [Laughs.] Fucking super brain. Oh. Thanks for the hotline. You guys are the best. Bye.

00:49:04

Biz 

Host

Oh, man. This is great. One of the fun things about calls is when it prompts a response from Gabe. Gabe—watching Gabe navigate your call… and—where? What? Really? Is a delight! I might have to videotape that one day. But! Here’s the thing—that’s remarkable. And—I think if I had never seen children? I would find it entirely hard to believe. But. I know kids. I also know super brain. And I—[Laughs.] I also know pandemic. Jeebus. I just think it’s amazing that you totally blocked this out. So much so that you haven’t even used that side of your mouth. And I think that that’s the real failure. Just punishing yourself longer than you needed to. Ooh. There’s a metaphor for parenting. [Laughs.] You’re doing a horrible job! [Laughs.] 

00:50:14

Music

Music

“Mom Song” by Adira Amram. Mellow piano music with lyrics.

You are the greatest mom I’ve ever known.

I love you, I love you.

When I have a problem, I call you on the phone.

I love you, I love you.

[Music fades out.]

00:50:38

Promo

Clip

Music: Uplifting orchestral music plays.

AJ: Mr. Robotman, what are you doing?

C-53: [Electronically distorted.] I’m just taking one last look at my coworkers.

Narrator: Every journey comes to an end.

Kiarondo: [Echoing.] Remember, Pleck, the space will be with you, always.

Pleck Decksetter: Sorry, who are you again?

Kiarondo: Master Kiarondo?

Pleck: [Chuckling.] Oh, right, right, sorry.

Kiarondo: Just calling in.

Narrator: Friendships will be tested.

Bargie: Dar, you have to do it. You have to shoot Pleck.

[Phasers reloading and charging up.]

Dar: Okay.

Bargie: It’s the only way to save us.

[A laser noise and a scream.]

C-53: Wow, you shot him so fast.

Narrator: Destinies will be fulfilled.

[Wing flapping sounds.]

Nermut Bendaloy: I’ve become a complete bird! [Screams.] I’m flying! I’m flyinggg!

Narrator: On April 28^th, the saga starts concluding.

Pleck: Guys, we don’t have a choice. We have to put on a show!

AJ: We can do it in the old barn! We’ve got the costumes. We’ve got a stage! We can do it, you guys!

Narrator: Mission to Zyxx! The final season, on Maximum Fun!

00:51:46

Promo

Clip

Music: Rhythmic percussion and bass.

Speaker 1: I listen to Bullseye because Jesse always has really good questions.

Jesse Thorn: What did John Malkovich wear when he was 20?

Speaker 2: [Laughs.] I don’t know how to describe it!

Speaker 3: There’s always that moment where Jesse asks a question that the person he’s interviewing has not thought of before?

Speaker 4: I don’t think anyone’s ever said that to me or acknowledged that to me and that is so real!

Jesse Thorn: Bullseye! Interviews with creators you love and creators you need to know. From MaximumFun.org and NPR. 

00:52:18

Biz 

Host

Alright, everybody. Let’s cuddle up and listen to a mom have a breakdown.

00:52:26

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

[Crying] I don’t feel like I’m doing a great job! I’m so overwhelmed. It’s so much. I’m potty-training a two-and-a-half-year-old and nursing a new baby and my husband just goes on a business trip and gets to sleep in—

[Biz laughs.] 

—and have fancy dinners and go on a boat and hang out by a pool. [Cries.] And I’m fucking drowning! He’s finally home this morning and he takes forever taking a fucking shower. It takes about how long it took him to take a shit!

[Biz laughs.] 

I’m just so tired! [Sobs.] I need some time before I can do somethings. Someone throw me a freaking bone here. Just something. I think I’m failing. [Sobs.] The good thing is, my daughter is pooping on the potty! So that’s pretty good! [Laughs.] [Sighs.] I just feel like I’m alone and I’ve been sitting in my house since Wednesday and it is now Monday. Potty training my two-and-a-half-year-old and taking care of an infant at the same time. And I just… I’m so overwhelmed and tired and… I know I’m not alone. I barely made it out of the house and I don’t even have a jacket on. It’s 60 degrees. And [inaudible] losing shit on her so I feel like I’d call you guys first and get it out. Thank you for your show. I love you guys. 

00:54:01

Biz 

Host

Oh my gosh. You’re doing such a good job. You are doing such a good job! You’re doing such a good job! You’re doing such a good job! All of that… you’re haggard and broken. That’s what you are. It’s okay. And that’s okay! You’re alright, because you’re not alone. You’re not alone at being haggard and broken. I gotta tell ya—a newborn and a two-year-old? [Laughs.] I’m so sorry! And I laugh because I remember crying all the time. I remember feeling completely alone. I remember—as soon as you close the door and the baby’s in the bed and the other child’s somewhere else so you’re kind of alone? You close the door and then you do like—I would do the weird, like, yelling/screaming but silently? [Screams.] Right? Like—[Laughs.] Just—I wasn’t okay. We all know that. We all—I needed a lot of help. [Laughs.] And Stefan traveled during that time, too. So you’re not alone there, either. 

And it is—as we say—we didn’t marry an asshole. ‘K? We didn’t marry an asshole. And during these first years, it is so hard to not be resentful of your partner. It just… is. It’s not their fault, and it’s not really your fault. [Laughs.] It’s the fact that you’re tired and you are drained? And you have, like, nothing that feels like… you? And let’s go back to the lack of sleep. And it being needed. And I—when Stefan would travel after Ellis was born, I really—I really feel you. Like, that… oh my gosh, you had a meal. And you got to eat it at a pace that was like a normal person. No one interrupted you. You got to sleep. You got to—and you know what? They’re not doing it at you. But it took a while for me to figure out how to communicate that to Stefan. Because Stefan would come home and when you have been sort of on your own schedule—even if you’re normally on top of it. Even if you’re a partner who is on it! If you even get like three days somewhere else? You come back and yeah, sometimes you take a little bit longer in the bathroom than you normally would. ‘Cause you just forget. It’s easy to forget. 

So Stefan and I really had to start working stuff out where it was like… when you come home, are you gonna need time to adjust or can I immediately rely on you? Right? Like, can you be more mindful of how that appears? Right? Like… you are—one day, you will totally be able to go back to brushing your teeth and reading the newspaper at the same time as long as you want. But we’re gonna have to put that on hold right now. Y’know. ‘Cause I’m rushing all of my things. So I’m gonna need you to rush, too. [Laughs.] Right? Like, whatever it is. That discussion… it’s an important one during those first years. And you know what? 

I will always remember my dear friend, Martha Larson, who was one of our first call-ins who just could not get over watching her husband brush his teeth. “He’s just in there! Brushing! Every! Tooth!” [Laughs.] “Taking his sweet time!” [Laughs.] Additionally, the work of potty training is really hard. And the fact that your kid is pooping in a toilet? Is—at two and a half? Is like—I don’t know! One of you is a genius! One of you—you either teaching or that child responding? Or both of you? That was not what was happening in this house. So I just think that’s unbelievable, and it’s a victory, and I’m glad you recognize it. And I just… you need to hear this. And everybody—and because I know you’re not alone, everybody else who’s in a similar situation needs to hear this. You’re doing… a great job. You are not alone. No one is doing this well. Okay? Everybody is having a really hard time? And that feeling? Is normal. And you have that right to have that feeling. You’re remarkable. You’re doing a great job. 

00:58:58

Biz 

Host

Everybody? You are all doing a good job. I—and special shoutout to stepparents on this week’s episode! Wow! I… I really—I didn’t know about the whole parenting plan thing, and that seems like insanity. And I will say, we have had guests come on and talk about coparenting before but they are definitely of the “true coparenting, everybody’s kind of making it work and we’re figuring it all out” versus “counter parenting,” which—I gotta tell ya—that sounds like a fucking nightmare. And I am—for everybody! For everybody. So I just want you to know that I see you doing that tapdancing and that juggling. 

And… once again, we’re being reminded that you’re not alone. If you are in a situation like that. And that that is really hard. What a place to have to be to kind of try and stay, like, centered. Right? As opposed to just going down the rabbit hole of like… “Fuck all of you!” [Laughs.]I just—aaah! So much added pressure! So you’re doing a good job. Everybody, you’re doing a good job. So let’s go out and remember that. And let’s go out and remind each other about that. And get those pivot shoes on and hit the dance floor! And I will talk to you guys next week! Bye!

01:00:33

Music

Music

“Mama Blues” by Cornbread Ted and the Butterbeans. Strumming acoustic guitar with harmonica and lyrics.

I got the lowdown momma blues

Got the the lowdown momma blues

Gots the lowdown momma blues

The lowdown momma blues. 

Gots the lowdown momma blues

Got the lowdown momma blues

You know that’s right.

[Music fades.]

01:00:58

Biz 

Host

We’d like to thank MaxFun; our producer, Gabe Mara; our husbands, Stefan Lawrence and Jesse Thorn; our perfect children, who provide us with inspiration to say all these horrible things; and of course, you, our listeners. To find out more about the songs you heard on today’s podcast and more about the show, please go to MaximumFun.org/onebadmother. For information about live shows, our book and press, please check out OneBadMotherPodcast.com.

01:01:26

Theresa

Host

One Bad Mother is a member of the Maximum Fun family of podcasts. To support the show go to MaximumFun.org/join.

[Music resumes for a while before fading out.]

01:01:49

Music

Transition

A cheerful ukulele chord.

01:01:50

Speaker 1

Guest

MaximumFun.org.

01:01:52

Speaker 2

Guest

Comedy and culture.

01:01:53

Speaker 3

Guest

Artist owned—

01:01:54

Speaker 4

Guest

—Audience supported.