TRANSCRIPT One Bad Mother Episode 440: Parenting is Amazing…ly Difficult! with Michelle Lodge

00:00:00

Biz Ellis

Host

Hi. I’m Biz.

00:00:01

Theresa Thorn

Host

And I’m Theresa.

00:00:02

Biz 

Host

Due to the pandemic, we bring you One Bad Mother straight from our homes—including such interruptions as: children! Animal noises! And more! So let’s all get a little closer while we have to be so far apart. And remember—we are doing a good job.

00:00:20

Music

Music

“Summon the Rawk” by Kevin MacLeod. Driving electric guitar and heavy drums.

[Continues through dialogue.]

00:00:25

Biz 

Host

This week on One Bad Mother—parenting is amazing…ly difficult. We talk to Michelle Lodge, creator of the webcomic strip, MoeMentality, about reality in comics. Plus, Biz is feeling better.

00:00:39

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz and caller: Wooo!

00:00:42

Caller

Caller

I’m feeling pretty good! I’ve—winter break, holiday break, whatever, was awful. It was just two weeks of total chaos in my house. But the kids are back in school and I’m feeling better about life in general. I joined a women’s woodworking group. We had our first meeting last month. Our second meeting is this month. We’re making birdhouses. And I found a local company that is looking for donations of birdhouses, and I just went and met with the person and had a little coffee with, y’know, with this person and I just feel like such a Self. And it’s such a nice change when the last two weeks has just been me with little kids literally hanging off of me.

[Biz laughs.] 

So things are looking up! Things are… good. Alright. [Through laughter] Buh-bye.

00:01:33

Biz 

Host

You had me at “woodworking group!” Oh my god! I… think this is amazing and that you are doing an amazing job. This is all I strive for. Right? Just this like, look. Some people love winter break. Some people like being with their children a lot. And that is very good. And I—that is a thing. That is a way to be. Some of us don’t find that as relaxing. Some of us like to be with our children, but in a variety of ways. [Laughs.] Not always in a house after two years of a pandemic being in a house. For winter break. Where ya can’t really do much ‘cause winter. So I like that you were like, “I’m starting to feel better now.” And kudos to you for feeling better so soon after winter break. It takes me sometimes… months. To feel a little better. A woman’s woodworking group? I just—I don’t know how you found that besides—I mean, I’m assuming you found it through the internet. But you gave yourself that. Is so great. And once a month? That is like a doable thing. Then you went and found somebody to give those birdhouses to? Genius. I just think you’re doing such a good job! Everybody, let’s just all go out and find something kinda weird to do. Let’s do it. I love it. So thank you for calling in and checking in! Speaking of—it’s time for thank-you’s!

00:03:08

Music

Music

Heavy electric guitar and driving percussion overlaid with “Ohh, oh-oh, oh-oh” and “Hey-ey-ey-ey-ey-ey” lyrics.

00:03:21

Biz 

Host

Boooo! Thank you! Thank you! There are just an endless number of people to thank. I’m gonna get the old favorites out of the way. Everybody in the medical industry? I know. Omicron is on the downswing. That’s what I keep hearing in the news. “It’s on the downswing.” But the thing about being in a swing and going down is that can still be terrifying if you don’t like that sensation. And it doesn’t mean it’s over. And it—and we have like the Super Bowl. We have so many things coming up that can muck it up. So I just want to say, thank you for continuing to show up, whether you are—I had to make appointments for my folks. For doctor’s appointments, eye appointments, dental appointments—all this stuff. And I’m just so thankful that you’re still there. [Laughs.] Because this has been a strain on everybody in the medical industry, regardless of being a private practice or working in a hospital or being part of the maintenance crew or just helping the hospital run through administrative duties, through cleaning duties, through maintenance duties—all of it. Thank you. 

Teachers? I know you’re so tired. And I appreciate that you show up. You really deserve a lot more money. [Laughs.] And I really appreciate that you are still here. Travel industry, as always? Thank you. That is—you’re just dealing with—all of these professions, by the way? Pretty much anybody who has to come in contact with other people? Let’s just—this week, that’s just where I’m going. Thank you to all people whose work makes them come in contact with other people. Thank you for not, y’know, shoving us off of a cliff. Because a lot of us probably come to you and unload our stress on you. [Laughs.] 

Whether you are working at the grocery store or whether you are working at a pharmacy or whether you are a principal or a teacher or a doctor or the unfortunate person answering the phone making appointments at a doctor’s office. You’re getting possibly a lot of, uhhhh… unpleasantness. And I… I really see you? And you’re really nice to put up with it. And I—you shouldn’t have to put up with it. We should be thanking each other for being really nice to people while they’re at their jobs. ‘K? And probably other times, too. Thank you. Guys? The thank-you’s—I never have enough time or enough space to list all the different people. Just remember to go out there. When you see somebody, tell ‘em thank you. It’s not weird. I promise. 

00:06:14

Biz 

Host

Speaking of not weird—I’m gonna talk just a brief second about grief. Grief is a thing that is real and not weird. Last week, I was talking about Steve having to have some surgery and Onion being very sick and needing to move on to the big cat farm or whatever in the sky. And Bee was just generally unpleased with all of it. It was stressing Bee out. [Laughs.] Well, first off, Steve is back and doing well. And I mean, not happy ‘cause he’s in a cone and he got through a surgery so he’s not romping around, but he’s out from under the bed and I call that a huge success. And… Onion has moved on. And I will not go into great detail about it, because I know that can be very upsetting for lots of us. 

But what I will say is… my response to Onion’s passing has been joy and relief. And… I know that I could beat myself up about that? But honestly, in watching Onion deteriorate over the last few weeks, I think I did a lot of my grieving during that process. And because I loved him so much, the fact that he was no longer in pain and no longer suffering brings me joy. That brings me joy. There will never be another cat like Onion, the one-eyed wonder, and I don’t want there to be another cat like Onion! [Laughs.] But I have just been feeling—I hate saying this, guys—I’ve been feeling so blessed. [Laughs.] But I have been! That I got to have this wonderful animal in my life and that I got to be part of helping him move on. Away from the pain. So. I am very happy about that. I’m not happy with the fact that it’s part of parenting. I mean, y’know, losing a pet when you have a family—that—everybody’s got very different reactions to it. As well as, y’know, all the normal stuff that’s happening with kids in your house. It’s just one of the things that makes parenting so amazing…ly difficult. Which I think ties in nicely to what we’re gonna talk about today with Michelle Lodge of MoeMentality.

00:08:56

Music

Music

Banjo strums; cheerful banjo music continues through dialogue.

00:08:57

Theresa

Host

Please—take a moment to remember: If you’re friends of the hosts of One Bad Mother, you should assume that when we talk about other moms, we’re talking about you.

00:09:04

Biz 

Host

If you are married to the host of One Bad Mother, we definitely are talking about you.

00:09:09

Theresa

Host

Nothing we say constitutes professional parenting advice.

00:09:12

Biz 

Host

Biz and Theresa’s children are brilliant, lovely, and exceedingly extraordinary.

00:09:15

Theresa

Host

Nothing said on this podcast about them implies otherwise.

[Banjo music fades out.] 

[Biz and her guest repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss the weekly topic.]

00:09:21

Biz 

Host

This week, I am very excited to welcome Michelle Lodge, who is an illustrator and comic artist whose signature styles include both a dark and moody noir and a contrasting bright, comedic cartoon genre. Michelle has drawn—sit back, everybody wait for it—Michelle has drawn Snorkel McCorkle and the Lost Flipper; Whiz Bang: The Boy Robot, and the graphic novel The Black Wall. She currently works on the modern noir series Home Free, as well as her ongoing, semi-autobiographical web comic strip titled MoeMentality, which is all about finding humor in parenthood and marriage. Well— [Laughs.] Good luck! Welcome, Michelle! [Laughs.] 

[Michelle laughs.] 

00:10:07

Michelle Lodge

Guest

Thank you so much, Biz! That was a wonderful intro. Thank you. Happy to be here.

00:10:11

Biz 

Host

Well I am very thrilled to have you here. You do a lot of stuff, but before we find out about all the stuff—besides having people in your house—I would like to know, who lives in your house?

00:10:23

Michelle 

Guest

Of course! So—besides myself, obviously—

[Biz laughs.] 

—I have my husband and we have two kids. One’s seven, one five. And one dog. And two cats. [Laughs.] 

00:10:41

Biz 

Host

I like the thoughtfulness that went into really trying to say—it’s like, “Was it two cats?” There’s this like sort of… “I’m going through the mind-Rolodex. There’re… two kids.” [Laughs.] 

00:10:59

Michelle 

Guest

Little mental inventory there. 

00:11:03

Biz 

Host

That’s right! Well very good. I wanna get into comics. I wanna start with MoeMentality. It’s your webcomic. Semiautobiographical. “Semi”-autobiographical. Talk to us a little bit about… creating it. ‘Cause you’re doing other stuff! It’s not like you’re like, “You know what I really need to do? Is this.” 

[Michelle laughs.] 

I’m glad that you’re doing it, so—but I—so what led to this specific project?

00:11:34

Michelle 

Guest

Yeah. Okay. So—

[Biz laughs.] 

—I’m gonna just lay it all out there and be 100% honest. This actually came at a very low point for me. So MoeMentality actually started in 2016? So, y’know, we all remember before the tragedy that was 2020. Y’know. 2016 was the other big year. It was just… felt like everything was out of control. And on top of that, I had just had my son. And… I had—what—I didn’t know it at the time, but postpartum anxiety. And also I’m diagnosed ADHD, so I was like…

[Biz laughs.] 

Everything felt out of my hands. And very dark. So… I really needed something that was like, “I gotta put this energy somewhere and it’s gotta be good.” So I just started drawing, like, these moments and trying to make myself laugh. And then, y’know, it just kind of took off from there. 

00:12:47

Biz 

Host

Yeah! No! It… if it made you laugh, it made me howl hysterically.

[Michelle laughs.] 

You have one character that is—I’m just gonna call her Life. And she’s a little—

[Michelle laughs.] 

She’s not a little green monster, but y’know, she’s close enough that like… one of the ones in your thing is you’re standing there—not you, but your character—is standing there very proudly in front of a to-do list. And says, “Alright. Time to get started on my to-do list.” And then Life shows up. “Hey, nice list ya got going here! Girl, did you forget you have little kids?” “Huh?” “You ain’t getting shit done today.” And she rips it off the wall and balls it up. 

[Michelle laughs.] 

And I was like, “That is the greatest moment ever.” And then… that’s followed with— [Laughs.] Your children are getting ready to leave the house. I think they’re getting shoes on? 

00:13:41

Michelle 

Guest

Oh, right, yeah!

00:13:43

Biz 

Host

And you’re standing there and you say, “We are running late, hon. Can you hurry up?” And then this Warning: Trigger Words Detected: Slowpoke Mode Activated! “Wait, noooo!” Y’know, like, but that is—that is so spot-on this—the sense of… the moment I make the mistake and say, “Can you get your shoes on? We’re about to leave?” It’s like, [shouting] “I was doing that!” And then they’re in another room. And I’m like, “I don’t even know how we just went from there to here.” So… I—this has helped me. Did it help you? Did creating MoeMentality help as you hoped it would help?

00:14:25

Michelle 

Guest

Oh, yeah! It did! It did! It was kind of like this place to kind of flip the script in my brain. Like if something—if I had a horrible day with the kids, I would think, like, “Okay. How can I make this funny?” Y’know? “How is this funny?” And then I would— [Laughs.] Imagine it as a cartoon and be like, “Okay, that was—y’know, I could use this to make someone else laugh, maybe. Make myself laugh. Just make this situation… happy instead of, like…” [Laughs.] “—horrible.”

00:14:59

Biz 

Host

It's happy. It’s happy. And everybody’s really nice. It’s not like, Hägar the Horrible or something, right? Where everybody’s awful to each other. Everybody’s really nice to each other! It’s solely about this mom character and it is happy, but at the same time… it’s very true. And… it—these are real moments that parents have. And that sort of thing can help with processing. I think. And I—I know that for me, doing this show… I’ll suddenly start talking about something and making jokes about a thing. Or just talking about something that happened. And then I will find that that has helped me work through it or get on the other side of it? And I would imagine that getting this onto paper… gives you some power of looking back on it. 

00:15:52

Michelle 

Guest

Yeah! For sure! It’s an outlet. And it’s a place to vent and—like you said—process. So, yeah. It has helped. 

00:16:05

Biz 

Host

I am so glad that it has helped! Now let’s talk a little bit about comic cliches. In fact—yeah. Love comic cliches. And I’m gonna use “chocolate” as an example. Given this sort of trope in comics—in particular, I’m thinking of Sunday comics or, y’know, any of those sorts of comics. I’m thinking of Cathy. We have to have our chocolate. But it extends to TV shows and stuff, too. There was that TV show The Closer with this super powerful woman who had—she just would rip open her drawer and it'd be full of candy and she’d eat it, which I loved. But there’s this moment where I realized… god, if I see one more woman eating candy to feel better about themselves, I’m gonna kill myself. As I reach in my drawer—

[Michelle laughs.] 

—and take out candy, and eat it. Like—as a person who’s creating comics, do you feel… any responsibility or how—like, in using cliches or do you think, yes, we should definitely use cliches ‘cause they trigger something for us. What are your thoughts on cliches? [Laughs.] 

00:17:20

Michelle 

Guest

Oh, that’s so interesting! Y’know, I don’t think I’ve ever consciously really thought about it? Because I do draw a chocolate character. And—

00:17:34

Biz 

Host

Yeah! No, they’re great! They’re your lover! [Laughs.] 

00:17:36

Michelle 

Guest

Yes. [Laughs.] Right? Yeah. And that was just completely born out of my own obsession with chocolate and how it’s like… it’s an escape. It’s my sanity helper. Right? Yeah, it’s interesting. I didn’t think about it being in like Cathy or shows like you’re talking about. Parks & Rec came out for me when you were talking about it. Leslie always had the candy. Yeah! That’s interesting! Cliches? They can be tricky. But I guess cliches are cliches for a reason? ‘Cause they’re often like… true? [Laughs.] It’s gotta depend on the way they’re used. Y’know. Portrayed.

00:18:24

Biz 

Host

Like all things? Yeah! No, I agree. I 100% agree on that. I’m with you on… they’re there for a reason. Right? And you can pop in chocolate, wine, you can fill those in with a variety of other things, but I think what you touched on about those being sort of a symbol of self, maybe a little bit? Like, I know that’s true for me where I’m like, “This is my private thing. And when I do it, it makes me a Self and an adult who gets to make their own choices.” Right? Like— [Laughs.] 

00:18:58

Michelle 

Guest

Yeah. [Laughs.] That’s right! Oh, it’s hard to feel like a Self sometimes.

00:19:03

Biz 

Host

Oh, it’s completely impossible.

00:19:05

Michelle 

Guest

As a parent. Yeah. [Laughs.] 

00:19:06

Biz 

Host

Well and like—

00:19:09

Michelle 

Guest

I think you’re right. Yeah. [Laughs.] 

00:19:10

Biz 

Host

Everything is everywhere and none of it’s yours anymore.

00:19:13

Michelle 

Guest

Yes. 

[Biz laughs.] 

00:19:16

Biz 

Host

She just gave me the most serious, heartbroken look. “Yes. It’s so true.” Alright.

00:19:22

Michelle 

Guest

It really is. [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

00:19:24

Biz 

Host

Comics. So a million years ago I did sketch comedy and it drove me crazy when people were like—“Like, improv.” And I’d be like, “No! Not like improv!” And so I assume there’s something similar in the world of comics. Because there are comics—when I think “comics” I know that there are like the Sunday funnies. Right? I think of comic books like all of my DC treasures. And then there are graphic novels, which I guess I wouldn’t call comics ‘cause we have said, “Oh no, they are graphic novels!” Right? 

00:20:01

Michelle 

Guest

Right. [Laughs.] 

00:20:03

Biz 

Host

And so those are lofty and above us. Right? Which is great. 

[Michelle laughs.] 

I’m totally happy to have that. Where are you on what comics mean? 

00:20:14

Michelle 

Guest

Oh, gosh! Ooh! That can mean… [sighs.] 

00:20:18

Biz 

Host

It’s gonna get you in trouble! [Laughs.] 

[Michelle laughs.] 

You’re gonna get in trouble! No matter what you say. [Laughs.] 

00:20:26

Michelle 

Guest

Maybe. 

[Biz laughs.] 

But comics are kind of like… books—I mean, there are books. But like… y’know, novels or… TV, in the way that there’s a genre for everything. Like, there’s kids’ comics. There’s teen. There’s funny comics. And then there’s superhero, of course, which is probably what comes to mind the first thing that comes to mind for people when they think “comics.” And then, yeah, the graphic novels. Which are mainly what I have to defend sometimes. When people [through laughter] think I draw something other than what I do or read, y’know.

00:21:10

Biz 

Host

Yeah. I like the idea of it, y’know, “Duh, Biz. It’s like TV or movies or anything else. There are very specific genres within that world.” Right? I can say “TV show,” but that doesn’t mean it’s every single TV show all in one. Right? It could be drama, it could be comedy, blah, blah, blah. So with comics—and now—okay. See, I am an old person. And… there was no internet when I was a kid! And like, so what I actually think comics—when I hear “comics,” I think of the newspaper. I think of, y’know, comic strips. And… those were such a part of… my growing up. Like, there would be some that I would cut out and pin on my bulletin board. There were some that I thought just really got me and then there were some I thought were very smug. [Laughs.] 

[Michelle laughs.] 

And… now a lot of comics now are webcomics. 

00:22:13

Michelle 

Guest

Yeah.

00:22:14

Biz 

Host

But I guess I wanna ask—what was your introduction to comics? Be it… strips or books or—yeah.

00:22:23

Michelle   

Guest

Okay! Yeah! So the first comics I think that I fell in love with was Calvin & Hobbes.

00:22:30

Biz 

Host

Oh yeah. Yeah.

00:22:32

Michelle 

Guest

And— [Laughs.] Yeah. Who doesn’t love Calvin & Hobbes? It’s awesome!

00:22:36

Biz 

Host

Horrible people! People— [Laughs.] 

[Michelle laughs.] 

People with no sense of joy!

00:22:42

Michelle 

Guest

I’d have to agree.

00:22:44

Biz 

Host

In their lives. [Laughs.] 

00:22:46

Michelle 

Guest

Right. I totally agree. And then Archie comics I read when I was young. And… then… I started exploring, like… Batgirl and that sort of blew my mind ‘cause the stories were just completely different and I was like, “Whoa! The art is different! The stories are intense!” And then y’know it kind of propelled me. Like, “Okay. I wanna look at all of this. What else is there?”

00:23:14

Biz 

Host

Oh, yeah. Besides the webcomic—besides MoeMentality—where—I mean, we’ve already talked about how this project was really about—served a really selfish purpose for you. Which is good. I mean, I use that in the best of—of ways. I think “selfish” can be a great word. It was really meeting a need. Talk to me about your other projects and… what drew you to them? 

00:23:45

Michelle

Guest

‘K. Where do I begin with this? So… I started working with a writer, John Kratky, who I worked on with The Black Wall and I’m also working on with Home Free. And he was looking for a comic artist and reading through his scripts? And just the intensity and the deep, like, the dark… storylines. The intensity of the story is what I really fell in love with. And I just kinda wanted to bring visuals to that. So I wanted to bring shadows and stark black-and-whites to that story. And I fell in love with it. 

[Biz laughs.] 

So— [Laughs.] I really like stories that… are character-focused? And are… kind of like a character kind of getting into a bit of a shitstorm that they can’t seem to control. It just kind of winds out of control and leads you down a path that, y’know, leads the reader down this wild ride, basically. So it’s not superhero-focused, it’s more realistic. And that’s what I personally like to work on. 

00:25:06

Biz

Host

It’s gorgeous. Everybody should go look it up if you haven’t seen it. It’s gorgeous. And it is a completely different style [through laughter] than MoeMentality! [Laughs.] 

[Michelle laughs.] 

Different in every possible way. Except for the notion of… opening a can of worms, as it were, and seeing where that takes you. Children in your house or other things.

00:25:28

Michelle

Guest

Oh my gosh. Yeah. A shitstorm in another way. [Laughs.] 

00:25:31

Biz

Host

Completely a shitstorm in another way! I love it! So you’ve got that series, which I can totally understand the appeal. I love the style. I love the stories. I like people being amazing just because they’re human. And having to tap into things. 

00:25:49

Michelle

Guest

Right.

00:25:50

Biz

Host

Having to tap into things that you either choose to tap into or not. Right? But then you’ve got Snorkel McCorkle. [Laughs.] 

00:25:56

Michelle

Guest

Yesss. [Laughs.] That’s different, too, isn’t it?

00:26:03

Biz

Host

Tell me a little bit about Snorkel McCorkle. [Laughs.] 

00:26:07

Michelle

Guest

Okay. Yeah. Snorkel is—oh. Was a very fun project. So… Snorkel is about a—it’s kind of like an eco-adventure story that—and the book actually comes with a whole soundtrack. So—

00:26:26

Biz

Host

That’s awesome!

00:26:28

Michelle   

Guest

Yeah! And it’s really good! 

[Biz laughs.] 

So I know I’m biased, but— [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

Seriously is. It’s about a young girl who has lost her marine biologist mother at sea. And she decides that she believes her mother is still out there, and she decides to sort of take it upon herself to go and try to find her mother and in doing so, she learns all these things about the ocean and she has these animal friends that help her along the way. And… it’s really fun. 

00:27:10

Biz

Host

Again, it’s a very different style of drawing.

00:27:13

Michelle

Guest

Oh, yeah. 

00:27:15

Biz

Host

So—y’know, a different look and a different feel. But what I do see coming through it is that a lot of your characters that you’re drawing and creating are of color. And I wonder is that from the author? Is that like—is the author requesting—like whoever wrote the story’s like, “Here’s the story and that’s who these characters are.” Or—and/or—‘cause it could be both—are those choices as an artist that you’re making? 

00:27:44

Michelle

Guest

Okay. So both. So with Snorkel, I was directed there. On the character and how she would look. And with all my other projects, which mainly have been with either just myself or with John Kratky, he’s pretty much just allowed me to take the script and sort of bring my own ideas to who these characters are and what they look like.

00:28:16

Biz

Host

Wow.

00:28:17

Michelle

Guest

So I was just trying to reflect the world we live in with how the characters look in those stories.

00:28:24

Biz

Host

Is that normal for the sort of the—the writer, the—like John—to be like, “I really want your vision to be [through laughter] part of it?” I’m sorry! I just—I’m like—

[Michelle laughs.] 

I hear so many nightmare stories all the time and stuff and I guess I’m just… I mean, obviously your work stands on its own. And you started working with him because it did. And he wanted to work with you because of that, and vice-versa. But! Sometimes—

[Michelle laughs.] 

—that’s not how it works! So is—have you found that, like, unusual? Or especially as a woman in comics. In illustration. 

00:29:05

Michelle

Guest

Yeah. Yeah! I—that’s actually really unusual? I feel like? 

[Biz laughs.] 

00:29:13

Biz

Host

Fuck. 

[Michelle laughs.] 

00:29:16

Michelle

Guest

So—yeah. Usually a writer will pretty much say, “I want this, this color, and this specific look, and this ethnicity, and, y’know, make it this way.” So it’s been a really nice freeing experience sort of getting able to create my own—my own piece. Like, put my own vision to his vision and then make something from there. 

00:29:50

Biz

Host

Yeah. Well it’s part of storytelling. Y’know? Illustrations and graphics play—I mean, from the time our kids are little and you start reading to them, I mean—“There was a picture on this page and you didn’t show me?!” Right? Like when you start making that leap to word-heavier books? And I’m like, “Oh, I’m sorry. Sorry. I thought—” And I think they also allow a read to slow down. And take in the story in a different way? But that’s a great experience. I’m glad you get to have that experience. Let’s wrap up on what—what is a project that you would looooove to do? 

00:30:34

Michelle

Guest

Oh!

[Biz laughs.] 

Oh! [Laughs.] Ohhh, man! 

00:30:44

Biz

Host

Sorryyy!

00:30:46

Michelle

Guest

Um… [Laughs.] Oh! Y’know? Okay. I actually have an answer to this. I have—I have a passion project, actually. In the waiting, right? My grandfather is from Haiti, and he served in the Haitian army and he wrote a book about his time in the military. And it is… interesting. 

[Biz laughs.] 

I will say that. [Laughs.] The only thing—it is—it is in French.

[Biz gasps.]

So I had to work with my aunt to—she translated it. And so my—I do have a plan in the future to create a graphic novel from his experiences. And that is—that is a dream and I don’t know when I’ll be able to work on that? But I hope before long. 

00:31:52

Biz

Host

Do you—I’m like, “Pitch it! Pitch it! Pitch that to somebody!”

[Michelle laughs.] 

Is that how that works? I mean, like, pitch it! Pitch it! Pitch it! Y’know, that sounds fascinating!

00:32:01

Michelle

Guest

That might be a good idea. [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

00:32:05

Biz

Host

‘Cause then you don’t have to wait!

[Both laugh.]

Hi! Let me tell you things you already know! You’re welcome! [Laughs.] 

[Michelle laughs.] 

00:32:14

Michelle

Guest

Thank you, Biz. 

[Biz laughs.] 

That’s— [Laughs.] 

00:32:18

Biz

Host

Actually, I do have one last question. As we’ve been talking, you mentioned at the beginning having ADHD. And I think it’s really rare to talk to adults with ADHD versus, like, a lot of the focus tends to be on children and initial diagnosis and things like that. Can you—do you mind talking a little bit about… how ADHD has—is part of your life? And your work? 

00:32:47

Michelle

Guest

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. No problem. So… the wonderful gift that ADHD has given me—

[Biz laughs.] 

—is the reason I can do what I do, which is hyper-focus. And that is, like… the ability to just shut everything out and tractor beam just—shooop—right into what you’re doing and nothing else exists in that moment. And it feels amazing and productive and you’ve—it’s great. [Laughs.] But ADHD also comes with a plethora of challenges, so, y’know. Being distracted. And forgetting my keys, y’know. Forgetting a lot of things. [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

Yeah. Anxiety being part of it, too. It’s been challenging. And only recently have I decided to partake in ADHD medication, which has been helping immensely. So. 

00:33:57

Biz

Host

Good job!

00:33:59

Michelle

Guest

Yeah! Thanks!

[Biz laughs.] 

 Yes. Therapy is brilliant! Everybody! 

00:34:05

Biz

Host

Isn’t it the best? [Laughs.] It’s the best! 

00:34:08

Michelle

Guest

It is literally life-changing. 

00:34:09

Biz

Host

Yeah. I fully agree with you. And good job doing it! That—it’s hard! It’s hard to do it. It’s hard to make the time. It’s hard to even set up the first appointment. It’s hard to continue—

00:34:23

Michelle

Guest

That’s the hardest one. 

00:34:24

Biz

Host

It really is! And then it’s—I think before kids are in our house, we sometimes have a little more space to say, “Yeah, I’ll—I need that. I’ll do it.” And then once kids are in your house, ehhh, we just fall down. We just say, “Oh, I could never! With everything—I can’t!”

[Michelle laughs.]

And so I think it’s really hard. But it’s critical. I mean, it’s just—it’s completely critical.

00:34:49

Michelle

Guest

Yeah.

00:34:51

Biz

Host

So good job!

00:34:52

Michelle

Guest

Thank you! Y’know, I—what you said just then is so accurate. It feels like you’re holding all of these spinning plates, right? And you’ve got ‘em. You’ve got ‘em. You’ve got ‘em. And it feels like if you’re gonna do anything for yourself? You’re gonna drop the plates.

00:35:09

Biz

Host

All the plates. Yeah. You actually have—there is a juggling—I believe it’s Life, once again—

[Michelle laughs.] 

—asking, “Do you juggle?” Essentially. And you’re like, “What?” And then she just starts throwing—she’s like—you pan out and she’s just next—she’s on a ladder with all the balls she’s about to throw at you. Which I just… adore. Again, it was tagged. I tagged it. [Laughs.] Alright, Michelle. Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for sharing the tools that helped you and are continuing to help you with parenting with the rest of us? That is a huge deal. As we say, it really helps you feel less alone when you see the moments that you have somewhere else. So I—thank you for that. Thank you for all of the other work you create, and… you’re doing an amazing job! Thank you so much! We’ll link everybody up to where they can find all your stuff. Everybody knows how to find stuff. But we’ll do it.

00:36:13

Michelle

Guest

Thank you! I wanna say, Biz, this show that you do? Is incredibly important. [Deep breath, then a sigh.] Finding humor and camaraderie in parenting and the difficulties and saying it’s okay to not be fucking perfect all the time. Y’know. And… it’s so important, and so… wonderful. And thank you for your show and your laughter is contagious.

[Biz laughs.] 

You’re wonderful!

00:36:50

Biz

Host

Or it’s a turn-off! Or people stop listening ‘cause they’re like, “Jesus, that’s a horrible noise coming out of her!” But that’s okay. [Laughs.] 

00:36:58

Michelle

Guest

Oh my god. I think it’s so wonderful! You make me smile! 

00:37:02

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz: Well I do, too! I do, too!

Michelle: Like, you laugh and I’m like—

00:37:06

Biz

Host

It’s one of those—y’know, we ain’t a show for everybody, but we’re a show for everybody else. So it’s all good. Well—thank you. That means a great deal and I appreciate it. And I do just have to share, everybody, just how weird and not the lives we once had are—in Michelle’s background—where Michelle is recording this, on the door there are Iron Man decals all over. You are sitting in a gaming chair, I believe. I am a little jealous. I’m a little jealous—

[Michelle laughs.] 

—of your gaming chair. I don’t know what all’s happening. I don’t even know what room this is. I don’t want you to tell me! I want to just think it’s your special room. That is what I am gonna leave us on imagining this. Okay? So just—

00:37:53

Michelle

Guest

It is, actually. [Laughs.] 

00:37:55

Biz

Host

Yes! Yes! Yes, yes, yes! Alright, everybody. We will link you up to where you can read these comics, where you can support Michelle, where you can find all of her other work. Thank you so much.

00:38:08

Michelle

Guest

Thank you, Biz! Thank you! 

00:38:10

Music

Music

“Ones and Zeroes” by “Awesome.” Steady, driving electric guitar with drum and woodwinds.

[Music fades out.]

00:38:28

Music

Promo

Cheerful ukulele with whistling plays in background.

00:38:29

Biz

Promo

One Bad Mother is supported in part by Betabrand. Ever wake up wishing you could just go to work in your comfy pants? Yes I do! Now you can, with Betabrand’s dress pant yoga pants. These magical dress pants are soft and stretchy and just as comfy as yoga pants, but—you will look polished and put together! Guys, you know. We all— [Laughs.] We’re all like, “I promise we’re going out to the gym! That’s why I’m wearing my yoga pants and my workout gear!” That we have not actually gone to a gym. Well, now you could do it, but with things that feel like your workout clothes but they look like you put effort in! [Laughs.] I have a pair and they have little cuffs and they’re bright green ‘cause I’m a good time. And they are really comfortable! [Laughs.] Right now, get 30% off your Betabrand order when you go to Betabrand.com/badmother. That’s One Bad Mother’s special URL. So… you’re supporting the show when you go use it! So again, that’s 30% off your order at Betabrand.com/badmother. 

[Music fades out.]

00:39:41

Theresa

Host

Hey, you know what it’s time for! This week’s genius and fails! This is the part of the show where we share our genius moment of the week, as well as our failures, and feel better about ourselves by hearing yours. You can share some of your own by calling 206-350-9485. That’s 206-350-9485.

00:40:01

Biz

Host

[Singing] Genius fail time! Badoo! [Regular voice] Genius me, me!

00:40:07

Clip

Clip

[Dramatic, swelling music in background.]

Biz: Wow! Oh my God! Oh my God! I saw what you did! Oh my God! I’m paying attention! Wow! You, mom, are a genius. Oh my God, that’s fucking genius!

00:40:20

Biz

Host

Okay! I will! I am back in pottery class, everybody. I don’t know if you remember—many years ago— [Laughs.] Pre—[in ancient voice] the time before the COVID—Stefan had gotten me pottery classes for Christmas. And I was loving it. Every Saturday for like three hours, I got to go to this little studio and play with mud. And it was so… great. And of course I never finished that pottery class because of the COVID. And… then the whole center shut down and blah, blah, blah. But it’s back! And I—and Stefan gave me lessons again! So… I have had my first pottery class, and it felt so good. And this weekend I get to get back on the wheel and I make horrible things. But it is so fun smashing that mud down and building it back up. Smashing it down [through laughter] and building it back up. I like it. I think they call it “centering?” I find it centering. Anyway, so that is my genius.

00:41:25

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

Hello! I have a genius! I have an appointment today at 3:30, and around 2:30 I looked at my husband and I said, “I need to go get ready.” And our youngest daughter, who’s newly two, has an ear infection and she is having a very hard time being away from me. So when I went to go get ready for my appointment, she lost her ever-loving mind. She was having a typical epic meltdown for a toddler. And I was feeling bad about leaving her for my appointment, and I sat on the couch with her and I calmed her down and miraculously? About twenty minutes later, she just crawled off my lap and found a toy and started playing with it. So I looked at my husband and I said, “I should just go now, shouldn’t it?” 

[Biz laughs.] 

And he goes, “Yeah. You should just sneak out.” So I self-left my house a good forty minutes before my appointment. So now I get to do whatever I want!

[Biz laughs.] 

Okay! That’s my genius! Is abandoning my children without their knowledge, which is kinda mean but I think they’ll be okay. Alright! Bye! 

00:42:40

Biz

Host

I love this. I love this so much. You are a genius. That—I have had to sneak out. Right? And that is why if you are in a situation in which you have a partner, that they can carry that load! They can carry that helping your child through the discovery that you left. [Laughs.] And I really appreciate and wanna say what a genius you are for enjoying that! Good! You should! I think it’s great! You are doing a great job. Okay. Failures. 

00:43:13

Clip

Clip

[Dramatic orchestral music plays in the background.]

Theresa: [In a voice akin to the Wicked Witch of the West] Fail. Fail. Fail. FAIL!

[Timpani with foot pedal engaged for humorous effect.]

Biz: [Calmly] You suck!

00:43:19

Biz

Host

Fail me, me. Guys, this is… this is lame. It sounds like a Cathy cartoon, and we all know how we feel about Cathy here. We’ve had the lovely creator of Cathy on this show. I say that with the most respect to Cathy. But last week, I believe I had talked about having eaten all this chocolate. Just to fill a space. [Laughs.] That needed to be filled. And I’ve made myself sick. Y’know. I made myself not feel very good. Okay? So here we are—now I gotta tell what this chocolate was. This chocolate was birthday chocolate. It was Christmas chocolate. It was special chocolate that Stefan had gotten me. It’s this super-delicious bar. I think it’s called, like, Tommy’s? I dunno. I’m horrible—it doesn’t matter. We’re not getting paid for it. It was delicious! And it’s like chocolate with caramel crunchy bits inside of it? It’s, like—again—I sound like a cliché. It’s transcendent. And— [Laughs.] Because I ate it all, I hadn’t—‘cause usually I kinda split it up and break it up and enjoy it. For as long as I can. This time I just ate it all, and now I’m very sad. I don’t have any chocolate! I don’t have it in my house any more! Not just any chocolate, that chocolate! I mean… alright. Guys? We just all reach a point. I’m almost fifty. [Laughs.] 

00:44:47

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

Hi, Biz and Theresa! This is… me calling with a fail. I should’ve been a genius. I started going to a gym six weeks ago. And I got into a routine and I was doing really good self-care and I was like making it work. Y’know. I had—kept having to reschedule ‘cause obviously my kids were sick from school.

[Biz laughs.] 

Super genius. Except what I forgot was—this is like the winter and I’ve been covered up—is that I have armpits. And that I prefer to have them shaved and it would be fine if I had made a choice? Like, “I’m not shaving my armpits. It’s fine. I’m cool with that.” But that’s not what happened! I just forgot that that was something that used to be on my sort of bare-minimum level self-care. I mean, it’s not even self-care. What is it? Bare minimum hygiene.

[Biz laughs.] 

But I just… didn’t even remember that was a thing that I used to do! And so I’ve been rocking the tank top with the hairy armpits, which would be fine—like I said—if that had been my choice. But it wasn’t my choice. It was just me forgetting how to be a person in the world. And… I was just… yeah. I didn’t—I forgot I had armpits? You’re doing a great job. I’m not today. Have a great day. 

00:46:15

Biz

Host

Yep! Your failure is forgetting armpits. I—100%. You said one thing that really [through laughter], really, I thought, was spot-on. And it was, “I had essentially forgotten a thing that I used to do when I went out into the world.” And that is real. Pandemic, no pandemic—once kids were in my house? There were lots of things like that. Where it’s like, “Did I used to do that? Did I— [Laughs.] Did I used to shave this or that or make sure I had this or that? Or whatever.” That is real. And that’s a frightening thing to discover. I do wanna salute you for just being so mindful as you described the fact that this was something that bothered you, but that others out there like to be wild and free in the pitters. Y’know, you could think of it as… a chance to… try something new! But really, it just made you feel bad. [Laughs.] You’re doing a horrible job being nice to yourself!

00:47:27

Music

Music

“Mom Song” by Adira Amram. Mellow piano music with lyrics.

You are the greatest mom I’ve ever known.

I love you, I love you.

When I have a problem, I call you on the phone.

I love you, I love you.

[Music fades out.]

00:47:51

Promo

Clip

Music: Funky, old-school-video-game-ragtime-style music plays in background.

Jesse Thorn: Hi, I’m Jesse Thorn, America’s radio sweetheart.

Jordan Morris: And I’m Jordan Morris, boy detective! 

Jesse: Our comedy podcast, Jordan, Jesse, Go! just celebrated its fifteenth anniversary.

Jordan: It was a couple months ago, but we forgot.

Jesse: Uh, yeah. Completely. Yup. Our silly show is fifteen years old! That makes it old enough to get its learner’s permit!

Jordan: And almost old enough to get The Talk.

Jesse: Wow. I hope you got The Talk before then. A lot of things have changed in fifteen years. Our show’s not one of them.

Jordan: We’re never changing and you can’t make us!

Jesse: Jordan, Jesse, Go!—the same forever at MaximumFun.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Music fades out.]

00:48:35

Promo

Clip

[Sound of explosion.]

Hal Lublin as Dramatic Announcer: Prepare yourself for the greatest pro-wrestling podcast spectacular! Known as… [with microphone echo] Tights and Fights!

[Crowd cheers.]

Announcer: An audio showcase that helps you understand the world of pro wrestling with a lot of love and no toxic masculinity! Featuring hosts Danielle Radford—

Danielle Radford: Time to kick butt and chew gum! And I’m all out of butts!

Announcer: Lindsey Kelk—

Lindsey Kelk: I’m a brittle Brit and my fists were made to punch and hit!

Announcer: And Hal Lublin!

Hal Lublin: I was doing the voiceover this whole time!

Danielle: Here. Let’s talk about pro wrestling’s greatest triumphs and failures!

Lindsey: And make fun of its weekly absurdities!

Hal: On the perfect wrestling podcast—

Announcer: Tights and Fights! Every Saturday, Saturday, Saturday on Maximum Fun!

00:49:26

Biz

Host

Alright, everyone. It’s time… to listen to a mom… have a breakdown.

00:49:33

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

Hi, Biz! This is a rant. An angry, rage-filled COVID rant. I’m just getting really, really fucking tired of doing everything right? And trying to play along by, “Oh, everything’s over; the pandemic’s over” bullshit, which—it’s not. Especially when you have an eight-month-old who can’t be vaccinated. But, y’know, I’m going to work and I’m wearing a mask and nobody else is but I am. And—[sighs.] I don’t get to go out and do anything for fun. But y’know, heaven forbid I actually go into public and see a friend masked once every three weeks and then come to find out, “Oh, well they weren’t quite as careful as I was and they’ve been exposed to COVID” and I’m tired of it. I’m tired of it. Why is it that those of us who are doing all the work—we’re still getting shit on us? Even by people who also are trying to do the work? But I’m just—I’m tired. Tired. 

[Biz laughs.] 

So fucking tired. So I’m outrage-walking my dog. Because I love my daughter, but I have already been in the house with her for ten days because daycare was closed last week for a COVID exposure. So, y’know. I’m over it. I’m over it. Thanks for the hotline! You’re doing a great job and when I’m done feeling like I’m gonna burn the world down, eventually so will I.

00:51:05

Biz

Host

Okay. You are doing a great job. I hear that anger. That anger’s real! And you are allowed to be angry. And it’s one of the things we’re all trying to work through during this processing of what life is now. And you know what? It’s okay to be mad. It is frustrating and it is angering to… try and walk through the world knowing that you’re part of the human race that needs to help others. Right? Like… yeah! There’s a pandemic. We know that. There’s a lot of people at risk during this pandemic. That is older people, people with autoimmune issues, people with just regular old issues. You have people who have diabetes, people who have heart issues—I mean, there are so many different illnesses that if they don’t directly impact you? It’s very easy to forget how… COVID could impact them in a way that’s different from you. 

And then all the kids under five! Right? Like, that—it’s a lot of kids! And… that—as a parent, it’s like— [Laughs.] I mean, it is sort of like being like, “We all are gonna put our seatbelts on in the car.” Y’know? You are! If I have a kid in my car I’m gonna make sure that they put a seatbelt on! Right? Helmets! Right? Y’know, when you’re out riding a bike! These are all the things that we already do to make the world a little safer for each other. Especially for those who can’t do anything for themselves yet. Okay? That’s a big responsibility and it’s really hard. And I… totally understand that frustration and… I understand the need to, y’know, we call it “having a grown-up tantrum” about it. 

Why can’t everybody just understand?! Why can’t they just get it? Just put on—I don’t care if you believe in it or not! Put on a fucking mask! Who cares? Like—how does that hurt you?! And if it does hurt you? Then encourage the people around you to do it so that you’re safe! Right? Like— [Laughs.] Aaah! And sometimes—sometimes we just genuinely need to rant. And yell about it. We know we can’t always fix it all. We know some things aren’t gonna change. We know we’re gonna keep doing the right thing. We know that others won’t. And… we try to be mindful and give grace to all of those around us? But at the same time? We get to be angry about it. And being angry? Y’know, anger is not the most thoughtful of feelings. [Laughs.] It’s definitely a reaction to your own needs not being met by others on some level. And so I… I just think that it’s great that you called and that you… vented. Venting and acknowledging anger is really important. I think you’re doing such a great job? And… not just with this? But with having kids in your house. Good job! 

00:54:56

Biz

Host

Wow! [Singing] What a show! What a show! [Regular voice] I gotta tell ya. I… I never wanna stop doing this show because if I do, then I get to stop talking to remarkable people? And, y’know, remarkable comes in all types of packages. And I really just find it such a joy to talk to people! So thanks for letting me continue to talk to people. What I am reminded of today is that feeling of isolation and how you can suddenly find yourself there and feeling like you are the only one who is struggling. You are the only one with a kid who’s not sleeping. You are the only one with a tweet who just cut all their hair off at two o’clock in the morning. Not talking about anybody specific. You are the only one trying to balance two jobs and kids or you’re sandwich generation. I mean, guys—the list is endless! 

And the list is endless because you’re not alone! We’re not alone. I think we actually share a lot more than the things we don’t share, and I think… having kids in your house is such a great starting point for finding those ways to support each other, see each other, hear each other. It’s a wonderful way to learn how to listen, as well as to share. And I can never say it enough—no matter how tired you are, no matter how burned out, no matter the crying—so much crying! It’s okay. No matter how sticky you are? [Laughs.] All of it. You are not alone. You are absolutely not alone. If you haven’t found your people yet, you will find them. You can always start with us. You are doing an incredible job. And I will talk to you next week. Goodbyeee!

00:57:08

Music

Music

“Mama Blues” by Cornbread Ted and the Butterbeans. Strumming acoustic guitar with harmonica and lyrics.

I got the lowdown momma blues

Got the the lowdown momma blues

Gots the lowdown momma blues

The lowdown momma blues. 

Gots the lowdown momma blues

Got the lowdown momma blues

You know that’s right.

[Music fades.]

00:57:31

Biz

Host

We’d like to thank MaxFun; our producer, Gabe Mara; our husbands, Stefan Lawrence and Jesse Thorn; our perfect children, who provide us with inspiration to say all these horrible things; and of course, you, our listeners. To find out more about the songs you heard on today’s podcast and more about the show, please go to MaximumFun.org/onebadmother. For information about live shows, our book and press, please check out OneBadMotherPodcast.com.

00:58:00

Theresa

Host

One Bad Mother is a member of the Maximum Fun family of podcasts. To support the show go to MaximumFun.org/join.

[Music resumes for a while before fading out.]

00:58:23

Music

Transition

A cheerful ukulele chord.

00:58:24

Speaker 1

Guest

MaximumFun.org.

00:58:26

Speaker 2

Guest

Comedy and culture.

00:58:27

Speaker 3

Guest

Artist owned—

00:58:28

Speaker 4

Guest

—Audience supported.