TRANSCRIPT One Bad Mother Episode 439: You Think A Nut Allergy Is Bad? Okay, It Is. with The Allergy Chef

00:00:00

Biz Ellis

Host

Hi. I’m Biz.

00:00:01

Theresa Thorn

Host

And I’m Theresa.

00:00:02

Biz 

Host

Due to the pandemic, we bring you One Bad Mother straight from our homes—including such interruptions as: children! Animal noises! And more! So let’s all get a little closer while we have to be so far apart. And remember—we are doing a good job.

00:00:21

Music

Music

“Summon the Rawk” by Kevin MacLeod. Driving electric guitar and heavy drums.

[Continues through dialogue.]

00:00:25

Biz 

Host

This week on One Bad Mother—you think a nut allergy is bad? Okay. It is. But we talk to Kathlena, The Allergy Chef, about being allergic to almost everything. Plus, it’s too loud for Biz. 

00:00:38

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz and caller: Wooo!

00:00:39

Caller

Caller

Hello, hello! I really just needed to hear that I’m doing a good job. We just had a first meeting with the school principal, my kid’s pre-K teacher, and then the school psychologist about getting our kiddo evaluated for something. I don’t really know what’s going on with him, but it’s been pretty clear that something’s been happening for quite a while. And we took the first step today, and it was hard. [Through tears.] But we did it! Alright. Thanks. Bye.

00:01:09

Biz 

Host

You did do it! It is hard! Good job! I mean, like, really good job! There—ooooh! It is really hard! Ugh. Look. There is a whole list of things that we know we have to do. Or we are surprised by the fact that we will have to do them. Like maybe we didn’t plan. I didn’t plan on having my kid’s four adult teeth pulled out, right? Like, I didn’t plan on many things. And just like you didn’t plan on ever having to set up a meeting like this. And—setting up these meetings just on their own? Is a lot of work. It’s a lot of schedules. You gotta get everybody together at the same time. Schools move at different paces. And—who wants to go to this meeting? [Laughs.] Not a fun meeting! This is a stressful meeting! 

And it plays on all of our, like, “Aah! What did I do?” feelings and all of that. Let me tell you what you did—you did it. You did the step. You did the thing that you didn’t really wanna do. I mean, maybe you really wanted to do it. I dunno. Maybe you were like, “Gosh, this is gonna be great.” But I think like all things related to parenting, it probably was like in a weird grey area where you’re like, “Okay. There’re gonna be benefits from this. We’re gonna learn something that’s gonna help my child. This is gonna be good.” Mixed with the, “I don’t wanna know that there might be something different or challenging that my child will have to face.” So yeah. Right there in the grey. And… I gotta tell ya, I think more people than we realize don’t do it. They just say no. Or they’re like me with the teeth example and just let two years roll by in hopes that it works itself out. You did it! You are amazing! You get to have all the feelings about this. I see you. Speaking of seeing people, it is time for thank-you’s!

00:03:15

Music

Music

Heavy electric guitar and driving percussion overlaid with “Ohh, oh-oh, oh-oh” and “Hey-ey-ey-ey-ey-ey” lyrics.

00:03:29

Biz 

Host

Alright! Here we go! [Drumroll noise.] Can I say thank you to all the people who are doing COVID tests? You are either watching our children or us as adults stick something up our nose and spin it around and then stick it in a tube and hand it to you. Gross. Or—you are sticking something up all of our noses, swabbing it around— [Laughs.] And some of us aren’t very clean all the time! We don’t always smell nice. We’re not—we are not always nice. And yet you do it! And I think it’s kind of amazing. That you do it. And I want to say thank you for all the swabs. I see you. And… I just wanna encourage people if you have like a weekly testing site at your school or at work or something? Maybe bring ‘em a little box of donuts or something. Maybe ask if you could just go get ‘em a coffee. I don’t know. 

Or just write a little note: “Thanks for swabbing me. Thanks for sticking it in me.” [Laughs.] I think that is a Shayna Ferm song from our good friends over at The Pump and Dump. Also, thank you to teachers. Teachers, faculty, school counselors, school nurses, heads of school, principal—all of you. Thank you for showing up. I know a lot of times you have to work within systems that you did not design. [Laughs.] Or that may not run smoothly. So thank you. And if you are in a location or in a situation where things run very smoothly, thank you to whoever created the system that worked smoothly! That’s amazing! Good job!

Medical professionals? Thank you. I know that right now not only are you tired, but a lot of people are sick. A lot of you are sick! And I know that then makes a lot of facilities short-staffed. So thank you to the people who are having to step up and do overtime on top of two years of what is essentially overtime. And thank you for those of you who needed the break and took it! [Laughs.] I would—I… self-care, everybody! I’m happy if you are taking that. I really appreciate you and all the efforts that you put in to keep us safe when we come to see you. 

Thank you to volunteers. Volunteers, I see you. And appreciate you. Whether you’re volunteering at your kid’s school or any kid’s school or maybe the library or maybe you’re working at shelters or maybe you’re working with animals or maybe you’re volunteering to help with this whole pandemic. I appreciate you. And I thank you. All of our mail carriers, all of our delivery people—you’re all wonderful and I appreciate you very, very much. And just a personal thank you to the people starring in the show Doom Patrol. Thank you. You have made my life. [Laughs.] I’ve been enjoying watching you! Woo! 

00:06:46

Biz 

Host

Speaking of watching things and trying to enjoy things, I’m… I’m—I’m in one of my little places. One of my little oppressed places. One of my places where Theresa and I have talked about this in the past. This idea of noise. And it not just being like somebody banging a pot. That is a horrible noise. But being inundated with many types of noise. I currently feel like I’m being inundated with sound. That’s a horrible noise. Just lots of sound. And that includes people talking to me. Stop talking to me, everybody! What? Why are you talking to me?! Ah, the children. Talking to me. Talk-a, talk-a, talk. Talk, talk. Oh! Did I say something or misunderstand you? Well can you yell at me now about that? That’d be great. Where do they learn this? I swear to god I’m not yelling at my kids like that! 

Then there is the noise of… like, physical proximity? Y’know, just where you just know somebody’s near you and they want to touch you. Or sit in your lap. Or pull your hair just to see what happens. I don’t know. Or they’re just close to you doing something gross, like you have to hear them chewing or they’re like constantly—Ellis, today, gets in the bed to snuggle with me in the morning and I hear this noise and I’m like, “What is that?” And I look over and he’s got all this long hair. He’s sucking on the hair and then sticking it to his chin ‘cause he—‘cause he’s like, “I like how I look with a beard.” And I was like, “That’s disgusting.” But I’m also broken, so whatever. 

And then finally there is the noise of stuff. Stuff just migrates through this house. Like you clean a room, you get something clean, you’re like, “Oh, my space is clean!” And you go into the next room and all the stuff that you cleaned out of your room? Now is somewhere else. Or everybody else cleans their spaces, but their cleaning of the spaces usually means they’re putting all their stuff back into a central area. Or my room. And that then makes my room very loud. And like I said, Onion’s really sick. He's not well. And there is a noise of smell. ‘K? Like, I can’t even be in my room without there being like a horrible smell all the time. So… I’m done! And it’s— [Laughs.] It sucks! This stupid pandemic has pushed us like, “Oh, everybody has to be together! You can’t go anywhere!” Aah! Right? 

Like, I can do it a little longer. I can do it a little longer. I can do it a little longer. And it doesn’t have to be doing it a little longer surrounded by people. It can be doing it a little longer being by yourself. That also sucks. [Laughs.] You think it’s just a little longer, and then it’s not. It’s more. So… I’m doing great. [Laughs.] When I’m doing great like this, everybody, I sometimes make bad choices with what I eat or what I drink. What I put into my body. I may have just eaten an entire half of a jumbo-sized Tony’s Chocolonely bar? Fucking worth it. But today we’re going to be talking to somebody that’s gonna remind me— [Laughs.] They don’t even have to say a word to remind me. To remind me that that is a real luxury. That I get to do that. Today we are gonna be talking about allergies with The Allergy Chef herself, Kathlena.

00:10:32

Music

Music

Banjo strums; cheerful banjo music continues through dialogue.

00:10:33

Theresa

Host

Please—take a moment to remember: If you’re friends of the hosts of One Bad Mother, you should assume that when we talk about other moms, we’re talking about you.

00:10:40

Biz 

Host

If you are married to the host of One Bad Mother, we definitely are talking about you.

00:10:44

Theresa

Host

Nothing we say constitutes professional parenting advice.

00:10:47

Biz 

Host

Biz and Theresa’s children are brilliant, lovely, and exceedingly extraordinary.

00:10:51

Theresa

Host

Nothing said on this podcast about them implies otherwise.

[Banjo music fades out.] 

[Biz and her guest repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss the weekly topic.]

00:10:58

Biz 

Host

This week, I am very excited—just like the last two minutes, I’m pretty sure she and I are now best friends. I am so excited to welcome Kathlena, who has—get ready for it—over two hundred food allergies and intolerances and can’t drink most water. [Laughs.] I love you!

[Kathlena laughs.] 

The members of her household also have food allergies and special diets. None of them the same. After being told she had thirty days to live, she made it her mission to help the food allergy and special diet communities thrive. Which is really gracious of her. Three years from her lowest point, she and her team have published several cookbooks, started a bakery, done local and nationwide research, developed hundreds of free recipes and resources, and much, much more. You can learn all about her and all of her different ventures or adventures at TheAllergyChef.com. [Singing] Welcome, Kathlena!

00:12:00

Kathlena 

Guest

Thank you so much for having me! Yeah!

[Biz laughs.] 

We’re already having a good time. It’s too bad people don’t even know, but we are. We really are.

00:12:06

Biz 

Host

Oh, they know now.

00:12:08

Kathlena 

Guest

Oh, okay. That’s good.

00:12:10

Biz 

Host

Right? Can you feel it, everybody?

[Kathlena laughs.]

Maybe on your website you should have a—you should be wearing a t-shirt that says, “I Win.”

[Kathlena laughs.] 

I think this is—we’re gonna get into the two hundred allergies and food intolerances and all of it. Don’t worry, guys! We’re gonna get into it. But— [Laughs.] But before we drag Kathlena through this again, let’s start with who lives in your house? 

00:12:34

Kathlena 

Guest

Alright. So it’s myself and my best friend, his name’s Carlton. And he has four biological children, which we’ve raised together. And three of the kids still live at home. Kids 2, 3, and 4 live at home. Kid 3—he’s lovingly called “Mr. Low/No Sugar.” That’s a whole ‘nother episode on its own. Like… the whole story. It’s fascinating. Basically he had an ADHD misdiagnosis and turns out it was really just the food. And the kid was like off his rocker. The kid was crazy. And food changed everything, which was amazing. And then kid 2, he’s allergic to several things. And kid 4, y’know, generally does well with a certain diet type but has no diagnosis or anything of that nature. She just does better with certain foods. 

And she’s got one of the funniest things because when she was little, she said to her brothers one day, “You guys are so lucky. I wish I had special food like you.” And they were all like, “No! No, no, no! We wanna eat what you do! You get to eat anything!” Her little kid logic brain [inaudible] “Oh, here's your special dinner and here’s your special dinner and oh here’s you—” And it was—and so she was always like, “Well, where’s my special dinner,” as it turns out. So it’s been quite a journey. And it’s nice ‘cause I’m almost at the end of the journey. Right? Our youngest is now 17. I’m like so close to being a free bird! And I’m like—and it’s so funny. I told them recently. I was like—you know that song by George Michael, “Freedom”? I was walking through the house playing that song and I was like, you guys?

[Biz sings “Freedom.”]

This is my theme song. And I was counting down—“I got less than one year, and on your birthday, don’t be offended—but this is gonna be the music that we listen to all day!” And the kids were like, “I can appreciate that. I can respect that.” I’m like, “Thank you.”

00:14:15

Biz 

Host

Good! You’ve done a good job influencing them. Raising them. To me, if they understand that and say, “Yeah, you deserve that. You deserve that George Michael moment.” Then I say, work done! [Laughs.] 

00:14:26

Kathlena 

Guest

Right? Yeah. So no, it’s great.

00:14:30

Biz 

Host

To go back, listening to you talk about all of those people in your house and having to make all of those different meals or making sure that you’ve got the [inaudible] snacks. And blah, blah, blah. All the things that in the fantasy island that I live in, is like already annoying as all get-out and I can pretty much—I mean, the biggest hang-up is my partner, who’s like, “No. You can’t have cereal or white bread or whatever as a weird snack.” While I grew up in the South and was like, “Little Debbie’s! [Makes munching noises.]” Like, all day! So in the best situation, making food really can be annoying after a while. So not only do I wanna say to you you’re amazing—

00:15:23

Kathlena 

Guest

Thank you.

00:15:25

Biz  

Host

Can I just ask—how are you? Like, I mean, like that—Biz  [Kathlena laughs.] 

Do you— [Laughs.] 

00:15:30

Kathlena 

Guest

You know what? To be honest, I think maybe you’re the one—the first person to really ask that. Okay.

[Biz laughs.] 

In the interest of full disclosure—I’m gonna be so honest with you guys because I feel like that’s the only fair way to be, right? 

00:15:42

Biz 

Host

Yeah. That’s pretty much what this show is about. [Laughs.] 

00:15:44

Kathlena 

Guest

It was—so, okay. It’s important to know the kind of person I am. Right? I’m hyper-organized. I’m the kind of person where, don’t tell me I can’t ‘cause I’ll prove you wrong. Y’know, I’m incredibly driven. To the point of… harming myself. Right? And so I think all of those traits, they very much help the kids thrive? Like, a lot? They never missed an opportunity. I was that kind of parent where I’m like, “Cool, we’re signing up for sixteen sports and I’ll make sure everybody’s got a snack and I’ll make sure that—” ‘K. I’m like the parent—and I really did this. We had the yellow sports bag and it was always full with the season’s outfits and the cleats and the everythings. And as soon as you got home you got your shower and I got everything washed for the next thing so it was back in the bag. I was that parent. 

00:16:27

Biz 

Host

Yeah, that’s exhausting, FYI. I mean, you know that. I’m just telling you… the obvious. [Laughs.] 

00:16:32

Kathlena 

Guest

It’s one of those things where I didn’t know in the thick of it, being that person was making me sicker? Right? Because with my condition, stress is like a killer. Right? Stress is one of the worst things you can do for someone like me. And so it’s like, I was just getting sicker and sicker and sicker all the time. On top of, y’know, all the issues I already had. And it’s like, y’know, I can’t lie. It’s like… I did not have a really good support system. Probably for most of their life. And so when you always feel like you’re alone in it—even though you live in a house full of other people—it’s like… when the kids got older, yeah, okay, they could finally do more. Right? Because at that point it was like we realized, for example, doing the dishes was detrimental for my health. Because for me, I’m contact allergic. And my hands were shredded to bits. I mean, it was really bad. So when we could finally say, “Okay. Kids, you’re on dish duty permanently.” Y’know, it does take a load off of you. To get to the point where we are right now, it’s like, most people only see the tip of the iceberg. They see my iceberg and they’re like, “Wow! Look at all this stuff you did!” 

00:17:38

Biz 

Host

Right! [Laughs.] 

00:17:40

Kathlena 

Guest

Look at the trail of carnage behind me. Right? I was miserable. I was stressed to the death of the max of everything. Y’know? Like—

00:17:48

Biz 

Host

Yeah, but can I say… I wonder… ‘cause I am also a alpha organizer, doer, fixer, for my own lens. Not for Facebook. Right? Totally for my own—“This makes sense! Let’s do it!” What I hear you do—well, the kids come home from their sport. Their shower. I wash. Put it in the bag. It’s ready to go the next day. Right? Like that’s… that is some control. Of something coming out in the future. Not being ready. It’s also something like when you’re good at it—and you are—that can be a place that it’s easy to get stuck in. Right? To get in a rut in. And then… you just have to confront it. So many—

00:18:38

Kathlena 

Guest

Okay. I don’t—I will agree I’m probably an absolute control freak? I—

00:18:41

Biz 

Host

Oh, I am. So I just—

00:18:43

Kathlena 

Guest

—never think about it in that way, because to me, there’s a negative connotation with that term? Like, you’re controlling of other people? Whereas I’m always trying to get my kids to be responsible for themselves and all that sort of jazz?

00:18:53

Biz 

Host

Yeah, but that’s a lot of work. [Laughs.] 

00:18:54

Kathlena 

Guest

So it’s like, I am a control freak, but maybe a positive control freak? If that’s even a thing? If not—

00:18:59

Biz 

Host

It is. It’s officially one right now.

00:19:02

Kathlena 

Guest

Okay. Perfect. So in that sense, yeah. I definitely have that as a problem. I don’t know that I find comfort in it, though. It’s more for me about the responsibility element? I am really big on the word “responsibility.” Don’t ask why. I actually don’t know. It’s just who I am, I guess, as a person? And so to me, like… if there’s something that you’re responsible for or should be done, and then it’s not done, I actually feel this crushing guilt and awfulness? And so like I have to get it done. And I’m at the point in my life now where, y’know, given that 3 out of 4 are adults, I tell them upfront! I’m like, “I don’t think I wanna live with you anymore. Like, if I have to be responsible for you and you’re a freaking adult? Like, no! I do not want to be responsible!” 

We just had this conversation—I kid you not—yesterday! And I’m like, “I’ve determined I don’t wanna do this forever. This is not for me.” Because like… if I have to nag you and tell you get up and do X—I’m like, “Does your boss have to do this at work or do you just show up and work? My goodness! We’re not even charging you market rate rent! I give you a gift every month! Get it together!” I don’t understand today’s world, because, y’know, we had to have a big sit-down about this a couple weeks ago. And I told them. It’s like, “I get it. You’re not me. I’m on a mission to change the world. Quite literally. Right? And you guys are on a mission to be Americans and sit on your butt and play a videogame. I can’t! I cannot! Like, I cannot fathom the thought of going on that computer for six hours a day—like, how did I raise you? Are you not my child? I mean, okay, maybe I didn’t birth you, but hello!”

00:20:42

Biz 

Host

Oh, they’re your child!

00:20:44

Kathlena 

Guest

“This is not what I created!” Y’know? And so like… I guess that’s—that’s been the hardest thing for me. It’s letting go, which obviously I’m not very good at ‘cause I still nag and they’re adults. Y’know. In that sense maybe I’m the negative control freak ‘cause I get up and do chores.

00:21:03

Biz 

Host

I never said negative control freak. I said control freak!

[Kathlena laughs.] 

 I find it very—I don’t—let’s just go ahead and admonish the word “negative.” Because your wording is such a better wording. Right? That responsibility. Show up on time. If you commit to something, you do it. If you see a problem, you step up and you help fix it. 

00:21:23

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz: Like, there’s a whole—you stand—right! You raise your hand! Exactly!

Kathlena: Yes! You get it! Oh my goodness! You get it! Yes!

00:21:28

Biz 

Host

That drive—‘cause I have people in my life who are like, “Why don’t you just not?” Right? And it’s like, “Well that makes no sense. I would never not not.” Because it’s… part of who I am. But just because it’s part of who I am doesn’t mean it’s not exhausting and for you, like in your case, really potentially killing you at some point. So I just wanna say—I just—when we were starting at the beginning of this, I was like, you know what? But we should point this out, ‘cause I bet there are other parents out there—people who have kids in their house—that are like… ‘Yeah. It’s its own level of hard that you have to figure out how to navigate the self-care in, even though—I mean, it’s self-care to me to show up on time. I would feel way worse if I showed up not on time and I didn’t do what I said I was gonna do. Does that make sense? 

00:22:23

Kathlena 

Guest

No, it totally does. And the crazy thing is is like… y’know, when it comes to responsibility, one of the best parenting things that I learned when the kids were younger. There’s this guy, his name is James Lehman. He’s got this interesting take on parenting where his whole point is to put the responsibility back onto the child. Right? Y’know, a lot of people love to punish their kids or do time-out or whatever and I grew up in an abusive household. I’m like, “Hard pass. No thank you.” 

00:22:47

Biz 

Host

Yeah. Hard pass.

00:22:49

Kathlena 

Guest

His whole concept is, “Don’t teach your kid to do time like they’re in prison. Right?”

[Biz whoops.]

And then the responsibility where they have to get stuff back, right? So his whole thing is like, “You don’t say you’re on time-out for three hours because you did this thing.” Instead, it’s “You can’t have X, Y, Z until you go three hours without doing blah, blah, blah.” Right? His whole point is, put the responsibility back on the child. And that resonates big-time with me, because like you said it’s that responsibility element. And you said something that really jumped out at me. It’s like when people say, “Well, why not?” Or “don’t do it” or whatever. It’s like, that’s what I was faced with when I had to make the decision, “Do I raise these kids or do I not?” Everybody said, “Don’t do it. This is the dumbest thing you’ll ever do. This is a terrible idea. Walk away now. Do not do this.” And I’m like… “But it’s the right thing to do.”

00:23:41

Biz 

Host

Right! Right! 

00:23:43

Kathlena 

Guest

I—and I guess I understand, like, people who would walk away? And I’m not dissing them or anything of that nature. I respect that 100%. Y’know I recently had a friend say to me, “I would never be able to raise someone else’s children that were not biologically mine.” 

00:23:57

Biz 

Host

“Okay.” The response to that is, “Okay.” [Laughs.] 

00:23:59

Kathlena 

Guest

Exactly! It’s not easy because, y’know, the connection that most people kind of rely on—especially in those harder moments, y’know? That doesn’t exist! And so it’s just a whole different connection, I guess. And so for me… doing the right thing—it transcends kind of all of what I do. Right? Like, “Oh, this product doesn’t exist in the free-from-allergy world? I need to create it! Because that’s the right thing to do.” Someone says to me, “My kid’s never had a birthday cake before” and I’m like, “Oh, let me fix that.” Like you said, right? Fixing and controlling and all these other things. It’s like, “Let me control every element to make sure it’s really safe for your child, and then let me fix this problem. What’s the problem? They’ve never had this before? I’m gonna fix it!” Y’know?

00:24:44

Biz 

Host

Right. So that you don’t have to deal with this again. Right? And other people don’t have to deal with it again.

00:24:50

Kathlena 

Guest

Yeah. It’s like, every kid should have a birthday cake!

00:24:53

Biz 

Host

Well no shit! I know!

00:24:55

Kathlena 

Guest

Let’s just make this happen!

00:24:57

Biz 

Host

Let’s talk about allergies. Because… I will readily admit that, y’know, there are sort of these moments—the pre- and post-. The before time and the after time. The before I had kids in my house time, there were a lot of things that I had lots of opinions on. [Laughs.] That I—as I began to walk about opening my own eyes to my own experiences— [Laughs.] Or just trying to be a better person in the world and listen. Surprise! I… I realize, like, how off I was. About a lot of stuff. Allergies being one. Because if there’s anything that America likes, it’s to take something that is new to them and blow it either out of proportion or question it and not trust it. [Laughs.] So the closest I’ve ever come to it are the discussions about, like, “Peanut butter or no peanut butter?” Right? Like, “What do you mean? Oh, this is affecting me so—” Well, actually, this never affected me. It makes me crazy when people are like, “I can’t send my kid to school with a peanut butter and jelly sandwich! ‘Cause somebody’s allergic!” I’m like, yeah, that’s actually okay.

[Kathlena laughs.] 

If you don’t send something to school that might kill someone. That’s alright! Right? Like— [Laughs.] That’s sort of our responsibility. But you… you legitimately are almost allergic to like everything. So… that… in its own right… could have led you to be less than somebody who cared about responsibility. Could easily have just become something that you let beat you. So can you talk—I would love to hear a little bit about… [sighs.] I mean, I don’t wanna spend the time talking about every allergy you have. But you legitimately have a ton of allergies and like, water? And air things? Like… how—was there one point in your life where you said, “I’m just not gonna let this destroy me.” Right? “I have to take a different approach.” Or—

00:27:15

Kathlena 

Guest

No, actually. No.

00:27:17

Biz 

Host

No? Yeah! Alright! Moving on! [Laughs.] 

00:27:20

Kathlena 

Guest

That’s, um… y’know, it’s funny because… this is always something that stuck with me. When I was a kid, I won an award for having the most perseverance. Right? And our school did this thing where every month, they would pick a different trait and they would award two kids. Right? I actually was a high achiever. I won that stupid award a multitude of times. Like a lot, actually. I actually have a whole binder full of these random awards that I won as a kid. ‘K? And as a child, though, I was always so confused by that one. I was like, “What? I mean, cool, I’ll take it ‘cause I love getting awards.” Right? I was like, “Yay! I got the award! I’m one of the top two in the class!” 

00:28:04

Biz 

Host

That’s right! [Laughs.] 

00:28:05

Kathlena 

Guest

But I did not understand that award as a child. I really—that’s the only one I really did not get. It just went over my head. And as an adult, I was like, “Oh! That’s what they meant.” But the funny thing is, is like—it’s not like I set out to be that person. In defense of the word, that was not my mindset. And no. There has never been a point in my entire journey where I’m like, “I’m not gonna let food allergies get me down!” That’s not my thing. What’s funny about it is my attitude has always been, “Oh, the world says such-and-such doesn’t exist? I’m gonna shove it in their face and prove them wrong. I’m gonna prove that this can exist. Oh, I’m gonna prove that this can happen.” Y’know. When I had a specialist say to me, “You have to eat what you’re allergic to and just find what hurts the least?” I was like, “Oh no. I’m gonna prove you wrong and find food that doesn’t hurt. In your face, dude.” Like, that for me—that was it. It was never about, “I’m not gonna let it beat me.” That was never it. It was just—I need to prove you wrong. 

00:29:07

Biz 

Host

Yeah. That is very motivating.

00:29:10

Kathlena 

Guest

That’s the weirdest—but that’s—that’s actually my secret personality! And I think people think it’s the opposite. And I’m like, “No, no.” And I’m not even ashamed to say it. Like, “No, I’m not.”

00:29:21

Biz 

Host

No. I don’t think it’s that secret. [Laughs.] 

00:29:23

Kathlena 

Guest

Yeah. And so what’s interesting is like—when they were like, “Yeah, you’re gonna be dead in thirty days.” And I’m like, “Cool. ‘Cause I’m tired of this. I’m sorry. Sign me up.” Right? Like, “Here’s my DNR—” no joke “—take the DNR. I’m good.” Perfect, right? So for me it’s never been about… I think part of it, though, stems from—again—when you grow up in an abusive household and your self-esteem is like zero, it’s never really about you. If that makes sense. I don’t know how else to explain it. And it’s wrapped up in child logic and some weirdness of how I grew up, but basically I have never prioritized myself. Right? Even earlier when you were talking about self-care, it’s like, even now as an adult, it still escapes me. The idea of self-care is almost guilt-inducing for me. It’s the weirdest thing. I… I’ve only just barely started to scratch the surface of speaking up for myself on a personal level. But advocate for someone else? Oh, I’ll do it in a heartbeat. I will throw down. I will go to the mat for you. I will do whatever it takes. Y’know. We like to joke, but it’s kinda not a joke—I’m the best fake lawyer this side of the Mississippi? 

[Biz laughs.] 

I’m a big researcher. I’m into a lot of things. I—I can pump out things that look like a paralegal wrote it! I will do whatever it takes if it’s someone else. But if it’s me? 

00:30:47

Biz 

Host

But for you—

00:30:48

Kathlena 

Guest

No. 

00:30:50

Biz 

Host

I want us to sort of maybe wrap up on something completely unrelated to allergies. But. Before we do that, I realized I shoulda asked one question related to allergies. And that is—what—[sighs]. What should—what do you want people to know? I mean, besides everything. What do you want people to know when it comes to… either having to walk the world that is full of people with allergies, or walking through the world with allergies. Or I mean, I dunno. What’s the thing about—

00:31:25

Kathlena 

Guest

Alright. So a couple things.

00:31:26

Biz 

Host

Yeah! Great!

00:31:27

Kathlena 

Guest

First one is… for those of you who don’t have food allergies and maybe you’ve met someone who’s hyper annoying about it or maybe you know someone who does that whole, “Oh, I have food allergies!” but they really don’t? They don’t represent our community. They are not us. [Laughs.] They’re like their own people and I respect them. They just have terrible use of language, so please don’t associate us with them. And know that when you meet that parent? The one who’s—

00:31:52

Biz 

Host

Oh, I know.

00:31:53

Kathlena 

Guest

—going on and on about this, that, and the other and your ingredient lists and all this stuff, right? Have some mercy and grace. Because I promise you that parent—at the core, they’re just trying to make sure that their kid is included. And it’s a lot of work. You have no idea how much work that parent has gone through. And there may have been medical gaslighting involved with it just to get the diagnosis. And they’ve had to put up with maybe family members who have literally tried to feed their kid what they’re allergic to. They’ve had to deal with grandparents who are like, “Oh, a little bit won’t kill Johnny/Susie” even though a little bit actually could? I just want you to know that—give ‘em a smile. Listen to them. Nod. Be polite. And just say, “Hey, I hear you and I’m gonna do what I can.” You have no idea how much of a relief that brings to that parent, and you bring their stress level way, way down. And then of course to people who are going through it and really struggling? I know this sounds super contrary to half of the stuff we’ve talked about today—

[Biz laughs.] 

—it does get easier. Right? I want you to realize that my journey is not your journey and I’m the exception to the rule. I’m definitely not the rule. And I’ve had probably one of the hardest journeys that anybody in our community can kinda go through. Y’know, just shy of someone who’s born with Mast Cell and is tube-fed their whole life. I’ve been through the wringer. And it’s probably compounded because we’ve got a household full of people with all these limitations. And so… it puts me in a unique position to honestly say I know what you’ve been through. Right? 

I literally can say I know what you’ve been through because my hundreds and hundreds of symptoms—I’m actually—I’m a mimicker. I mimic cancer. I mimic Job’s Disease. I mimic Raynaud’s. I mimic pretty much every major and rare illness you’ve probably never heard of and I’m glad you’ve never heard of it. But I really know what you’re going through! So when I tell you it does get easier, I need you to believe me. It really does. You will reach a point in the journey where you’ve got your safe food and you know what’s going on and you know how to shop and you know how to cook and you’ve tapped into resources or maybe you’ve found a great author or chef or whatever or you follow us on Instagram? Who knows what you did. But you did something. And you finally hit your stride. Everything got easier! 

And then I want you to just pay it forward. Right? I want you to find the next person in line who is struggling. Or be a good advocate for, y’know, your kid now so that when the next kid comes along, y’know, that’s what we can do as a community. Just support one another without even realizing it. Is just—be good advocates. Represent the community well. And the interesting thing is, is unfortunately the diagnosis rate is on the rise, and the flip side of that is that the kids who are little, little kids right now, being diagnosed today and tomorrow, y’know, when they hit grade school and middle school it’s gonna be a million times easier for those parents because of all the hard work we’re doing right now. So know that your fight is for something. Right? You’re fighting for tomorrow’s kids and the day after tomorrow’s kids and their grandkids and we’re just gonna keep making the world a better place, but it does get easier.

00:34:52

Biz 

Host

Oh my god. That—you’re—that is all wonderful things for us to know. [Laughs.] 

[Kathlena laughs.] 

00:35:00

Kathlena 

Guest

I think [inaudible] and that’s food allergies in a nutshell, right? They’re not being difficult and it’s gonna get easier. In a nutshell.

00:35:06

Biz 

Host

Not being difficult. You know what, I gotta tell ya—I can apply that to so many other facets of our lives. “Don’t be difficult, everybody!” [Laughs.] Just try to be patient with a little grace! All I can think of is the like… after-school special—I think it was an after-school special—The Boy in the Bubble with John Travolta?

00:35:27

Kathlena 

Guest

Totally me. 

00:35:28

Biz 

Host

Yeah. Are you the boy in the bubble?

00:35:30

Kathlena 

Guest

I am, actually. So I have to wear my respirator to leave the house. But it’s—y’know, for as awful as it used to be… it’s so nice, because you can breathe. Like—

[Biz laughs.] 

People don’t realize how… I mean, ‘cause there’s the thing—when I had to start wearing it—I mean, nowadays it’s different because everybody wears one. But back in the day I was harassed. I was escorted off of the property from security. I mean, I was seen as a threat. A walking threat. People would point, jeer at me—it was awful. It was a really bad thing. I faced so much flak from humanity. Right? I mean, talk about making you feel like a pariah of society.

00:36:07

Biz 

Host

And these people were all smoking. [Laughs.] 

00:36:08

Kathlena 

Guest

Right. [Inaudible] all you’re trying to do is breathe! You don’t understand—like, you as a person, you can never understand how good it feels to wear a respirator that honestly hurts to wear. People also don’t realize that part. Until you can’t breathe! When you leave your house and you cannot breathe, or when you leave your house and you’re so sick, you will never understand how good it feels to have to wear that giant respirator on my face. Just so I can try to have a pretending of normal for ten minutes. Right? People just don’t get it. Until they do. And then of course, y’know, it’s so funny—it’s funny/not-funny when people who have known me—like at the grocery store, for example—and one of the dudes at the checkout lane? He’s like, “You would not believe what happened to me.” He’s like, “Turns out—my apartment was making me sick! And then I had to get a respirator kind of like yours! And I was like, I get her now!” And I’m like, “Welcome to the club.” 

00:37:09

Biz 

Host

Thank you? [Laughs.] 

00:37:11

Kathlena 

Guest

When they finally go through it—and I’ve never wished it on anyone.

00:37:16

Biz 

Host

No, of course!

00:37:17

Kathlena 

Guest

But if someone goes through it, they always come back to me and they’re like, “I understand you now!” And I’m like, “Cool. Now you get what it’s like to be a prisoner in your own home.” Right?

00:37:27

Biz 

Host

See? We gotta get you the t-shirt that says “I Win!”

[Kathlena laughs.] 

Oh my gosh. Kathlena, I have had such a nice time talking to you today. I appreciate you coming on and… being honest about your experiences. Even more I appreciate that you have been generous enough to… keep these doors opening for others as you go forward. Every time you have to kick one open, making sure that it’s left open. That should not go unrecognized, and I see you. I know that’s a lot of work. I also see you for all those dinners. God! I hate cooking!

00:38:08

Kathlena 

Guest

That was the nicest thing someone’s ever said to me and you’re making me think about it. I’m like, “You’re right. I busted down those doors!” 

00:38:13

Biz 

Host

You did!

00:38:14

Kathlena 

Guest

Thank you! That’s like the nicest thing ever! Like… yeah! Knocking down doors and everybody else is gonna walk through behind me and we’re just gonna have a darn good time!

00:38:23

Biz 

Host

Yes! We are gonna eat all the special cakes that we can eat!

00:38:28

Kathlena 

Guest

Absolutely.

00:38:29

Biz 

Host

Absolutely. Guys, we’re gonna link everybody up to where they can find out more about Kathlena. I mean, you can always start right at TheAllergyChef.com. Good place to start. Somebody—we need this woman to have a book deal, everybody! Let’s get this woman a book deal!

00:38:45

Kathlena 

Guest

Do the book deal. Do the TV thing. I wanna do the thing where you go on all the late night shows, y’know? You make your rounds and stuff? 

00:38:51

Biz 

Host

Yeah! Alright. 

00:38:53

Kathlena 

Guest

Like, we did it. You know what’s so funny? It’s funny you say that. My dream—my big dream, for me, at least—is I wanna be mega-famous. But not for all the wrong reasons.

00:39:02

Biz 

Host

For all the right reasons!

00:39:04

Kathlena 

Guest

I wanna be mega-famous so that everyone knows—food allergy? Go to The Allergy Chef. She will point you in the right direction. I want it to be so that no matter who gets diagnosed and when, somebody in their circle has heard of me and they’re like, “I know how to solve all your problems!” And then boom, from day one? We are hitting the ground running. We are helping so many people. Because if I can like blow the roof of this and be super famous, that means you’re gonna know all the safe food companies. You’re gonna know all the best restaurants.

00:39:31

Biz 

Host

Great British Bake-Off. Top Chef. Guys, this is where we’re going! We need to come and find Kathlena and put that as a challenge to ya little chefs! I love this. I love this!

00:39:47

Kathlena 

Guest

That’s actually one of my other goals. I actually want a judge on Master Chef, but the deal is they can only use my stuff. [Inaudible.] The whole episode is watching these chefs kinda go, “Wait, wait, wait. What do you mean I can’t use—What do you mean I can’t use—?” Because I was so offended. There was an episode of Top Chef a few seasons ago where they actually highlighted food allergies. And one of the chefs was throwing a little fit. And I was like, “You need to shut up. Like, right now.” I actually went on Instagram, which I never do, like, “This was a terrible representation of the food allergy community. This is awful. Right?” And I was so upset! Because it was like—and then what really got me? The winning recipe had like five major allergens in it. I was like, “You could’ve made those pancakes without the eggs! Hello!” 

[Biz laughs.] 

“What are you [inaudible]? You guys! I make top-nine-free fluffy as heck pancakes! I know that it works! You could’ve done it too! And you’re on TV! You have no excuse!” ‘Cause for me, I’m like, “I need to get so famous. Blow the lid off of all of this. Because I wanna show every man, woman, and child with an allergy—you got this.”

00:40:51

Biz 

Host

Alright, everybody. We’re all gonna put this out there. Kathlena equals famous.

00:40:57

Kathlena

Guest

[Through laughter] Yes.

00:40:59

Biz 

Host

I have very little power in this, but let’s just try! Everybody just keep linking—

00:41:01

Kathlena 

Guest

You got the power! It’s like that song, [sings] I’ve got the power!

[Biz falsettos along, switches to “Freedom.”]

00:41:05

Biz 

Host

Alright. Now I’m shifting back to “Freedom.” Alright. Everybody, we’re gonna link you up. You know how to do things on the internet. We’re gonna get you over to The Allergy Chef. Everybody just go on and tweet and Instagram this lovely person to all these shows we just mentioned. And any other place you think should know about them. You are doing such a wonderful job. Thank you so much for joining me, Kathlena!

00:41:31

Kathlena 

Guest

Thank you for having me. Honestly, if you bring me back, I’m down. Like—for anybody listening? This was so much fun, you guys. Like—

[Biz laughs.] 

I normally get interviewed and you’re right—that’s all we ever talk about is food allergies. And today it was like so different? Which I’m totally cool with! It is so much fun.

00:41:49

Biz 

Host

Yeah. You get to be somebody other than an allergy. [Laughs.] 

00:41:53

Kathlena 

Guest

Yes! You saw me for the fact that I do more than just The Allergy Chef.

00:41:57

Biz 

Host

That’s right. Woo! Alright! Bye!

00:42:00

Music

Music

“Ones and Zeroes” by “Awesome.” Steady, driving electric guitar with drum and woodwinds.

[Music fades out.]

00:42:18

Music

Promo

Cheerful ukulele with whistling plays in background.

00:42:19

Biz 

Promo

One Bad Mother is supported in part by Wealthfront. Look. A lot of investment apps make it easy to start trading, but just because it’s easy— [Laughs.] Doesn’t mean you know what you’re doing! I know I don’t. Wealthfront was designed by financial experts to help you turn your good ideas into great investments without the hassle of doing everything yourself. It is trusted with over 28 billion dollars in assets, helping nearly half a million people build their wealth. And the best part is their product is so simple yet powerful that it has 4.9 out of 5 stars in the Apple App Store! To start building your wealth and get your first $5,000 managed for free… for life! Go to Wealthfront.com/badmother. That’s W-E-A-L-T-H-F-R-O-N-T.com/badmother to start building your wealth. Go to Wealthfront.com/badmother to get started today.

[Music fades out.]

00:43:25

Music

Promo

Inspirational keyboard music plays in background.

00:43:26

Biz 

Promo

One Bad Mother is supported in part by Evite. Life is better together! And if you want your event to feel super special, invite your guests with Evite. Do you have a kid in your house? You’ve used Evite. [Laughs.] You’ve used it for birthday parties. You’ve used it for showers. You’ve used it for all sorts of things. Evite offers thousands of free invitation options, all fully customizable for your occasion. RSVP tracking is included, which is always important ‘cause you always wanna know—when you say you’re coming, are you coming with just you? One child? Two child? Two adults? Five children? Maybe just one of the children. Best of all, it’s free. Evite is helping to make all of our celebrations feel extra special. Head over to Evite.com/badmother to choose from thousands of design options and create and send invitations for free. That’s E-V-I-T-E.com/badmother. Evite.com/badmother. 

[Music fades out.]

00:44:34

Theresa

Host

Hey, you know what it’s time for! This week’s genius and fails! This is the part of the show where we share our genius moment of the week, as well as our failures, and feel better about ourselves by hearing yours. You can share some of your own by calling 206-350-9485. That’s 206-350-9485.

00:44:54

Biz 

Host

Genius fail time. Genius me, me! 

00:44:57

Clip

Clip

[Dramatic, swelling music in background.]

Biz: Wow! Oh my God! Oh my God! I saw what you did! Oh my God! I’m paying attention! Wow! You, mom, are a genius. Oh my God, that’s fucking genius!

00:45:11

Biz 

Host

Okay. This is simple. But you know what? I actually would like a shoutout for this. So like I said, feeling a little crowded. And this morning, I was thinking I could either take the kids to school and then go do a really nice big, long walk around the Rose Bowl. Or I could have Stefan take the kids to school and I could just sit on the couch. And veg out. And watch Doom Patrol. And then I thought, “If I am here, I will definitely not be alone.” [Laughs.] “But if I go walk, I will be by myself and I will be alone.” And so I did it. I did the walk. And… it was nice. It was definitely a better choice. And I just, y’know, “Hey, good job, me! You made the better choice this time!” Yayyy! I’m so great! [Laughs.] 

00:46:13

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

Hello, hello! Just checking in. Just have a little—not quite a genius, just feeling good. Nobody gives a shit, but I just needed to tell someone. [Laughs.] That my kid cut all his hair off. I mean, had a professional cut all his gorgeous—

[Biz laughs.] 

—shoulder-length, beautiful hair off. It was what he wanted. And I let him! I let—y’know. I mean… I didn’t have to let him. [Laughs.] I could’ve put my foot down and said, “No, you’re keeping your beautiful hair!” But I just supported his decision. And… god, I miss his beautiful hair. [Laughs.] So much! Um… but I feel good. That he feels so good. Alright! Bye! [Laughs.] 

00:47:10

Biz 

Host

You are doing a great job! I actually care a great deal about that, because I have been in that situation, too. I don’t think we even realize how much power we have sometimes? Like, I remember when Raiden wanted to cut all their hair off? And I—I was concerned. I cared less about the fact that they weren’t gonna have the long hair anymore. ‘K? I cared more about the fact that they’ve got very curly hair, and that is a sometimes hard thing to manage when it’s short. And by “manage,” I mean, it can look like something maybe Raiden isn’t prepared for. But I let them do it ‘cause my—I remembered my parents had let me make a lot of bad choices when it came to my appearance. And I let Raiden do it and yeah! Yeah! You know what? It looks good! It’s alright. Not my cup of tea. I don’t think that child should have bangs. But they like bangs, and they want them and it brings them joy. And just like you, there is joy in their joy. You’re doing amazing. Failures!

00:48:16

Clip

Clip

[Dramatic orchestral music plays in the background.]

Theresa: [In a voice akin to the Wicked Witch of the West] Fail. Fail. Fail. FAIL!

[Timpani with foot pedal engaged for humorous effect.]

Biz: [Calmly] You suck!

00:48:22

Biz 

Host

Fail me, me. Ohhhkay. I think I mentioned just a little while ago that I may have made a mistake by eating half of this chocolate bar, which was delicious. But the headache that is slowly starting to creep in is making its own point. It’s telling me something different. And I—I know that if I eat too much, I run the risk of the headache. It’s like the neck one that goes right up the side of your neck right behind your ear? Yeah. So… I’m a grown-ass woman who knows better. Still really choosing not to make always the best choices. Balance! [Laughs.] 

00:49:13

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

Hi, One Bad Mother! This is definitely a fail. We are on day two of potty training. Well, when I say “we” I mean “me” because my husband’s out of town, thank you very much. And yesterday she pooped as soon as she put her naptime diaper on. And I really wanted to avoid that going forward. So today, a little before nap, I told her, “Hey! I have some M&Ms! If your poop goes in the potty, you can have two M&Ms.” And she was very excited and talking about M&Ms. I thought, “Great! This is gonna be awesome.” Fast-forward a little bit to naptime. I have her sit on the potty in her room, and she’s trying to poop and nothing’s coming out. And then it’s time to put her diaper on and really time to go to sleep. Nope! She is still sitting. And that’s when I realized—she is going to sit on the potty literally forever until her poop comes out so she can get these dang M&Ms.

[Biz laughs.] 

So I finally had to rethink my plan and I told her, “Alright. You did a good job. You’re trying. I see that your poop’s not gonna come out. But because you tried, I will give you one M&M.”

[Biz laughs.] 

She still didn’t want to get up, so finally I went into the kitchen, grabbed the M&Ms, and after I gave her an M&M and she ate it she finally got off the potty and put her diaper on. No poop happened. We’ll see what the rest of the day and tomorrow holds. Anyway, we’re all doing a good job. Except for when we don’t. Thanks! Bye!

[Biz laughs.] 

00:50:51

Biz 

Host

That is true. Truer words! We’re all doing a good job except when we don’t. Really, the core of this is that you have failed at bribing your child and I am very sorry. I really feel like this show has gone to great lengths to prove the value of a good bribe. And in no way have we admitted to the fact that sometimes our bribery backfires. So… hence my children will forever expect a treat when I pick them up from school. Let’s all go back to kindergarten and question the choices that were made then. So you’re doing a horrible job encouraging your child to learn how to poop in a potty using bribery. Fail! [Laughs.] 

00:51:45

Music

Music

“Mom Song” by Adira Amram. Mellow piano music with lyrics.

You are the greatest mom I’ve ever known.

I love you, I love you.

When I have a problem, I call you on the phone.

I love you, I love you.

[Music fades out.]

00:52:09

Promo

Clip

Music: Bright, cheerful music.

Ellen Weatherford: Hey, there! I’m Ellen Weatherford.

Christian Weatherford: And I’m Christian Weatherford.

Ellen: And we’ve got big feelings about animals that we just gotta share.

Christian: On Just the Zoo of Us, your new favorite animal review podcast, we’re here to critically evaluate how each animal excels and how it doesn’t, rating them out of 10 on their effectiveness, ingenuity, and aesthetics.

Ellen: Guest experts give you their takes informed by actual, real-life experiences studying and working with very cool animals, like sharks, cheetahs, and sea turtles.

Christian: It’s a field trip to the zoo for your ears.

Ellen: So, if you or your kids have ever wondered if a pigeon can count, why sloths move so slow, or how a spider sees the world, find out with us every Wednesday on Just the Zoo of Us, which can now be found in its natural habitat, on MaximumFun.org.

Christian: Listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

[Music ends, punctuated with an undulating wild animal call.]

00:53:02

Promo

Clip

Music: Throbbing, dramatic, low-toned music plays in background.

Ross: [In deep, dramatic voice] Somewhere between science and superstition, there is a podcast. 

[Sinister knocking interspersed with screams.]

Ross: Look, your daughter doesn’t say she’s a demon. She says she’s the devil himself.

Carrie: [With uncharacteristic drawl] That thing is not my daughter! And I want you to tell me there’s a show where the hosts don’t just report on fringe science and spirituality, but take part themselves!

Music: Swinging, reassuring, low-key music plays in background.

Ross: Well, there is! And it’s Oh No! Ross and Carrie on Maximum Fun.

Carrie: This year we actually became certified exorcists.

Ross: So yes, Carrie and I can help your daughter!
 

[Terrifying noises, including chainsaw]

Carrie: Or we can just talk about it on the show.

[Sinister background noises begin again.]

Ross: [Deep voice again] Oh No! Ross and Carrie on MaximumFun.org.

00:53:48

Biz 

Host

Alright, everybody. Settle in. It’s time for a mom to have a breakdown. 

00:53:54

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

[Sobbing] This is a breakdown! My kid is currently doing online school. It’s fine. It’s fine. It’s whatever. She’s not terrible at it. She sits through lessons. It’s not too much fighting. I can handle it. But my period started today. Which means I’m in a lot of pain. And I’m crying for every reason and no reason. And I’m so tired. Which means I’m not handling online school well today. And that makes me feel like a failure, because of a stupid body just taking control. And I’m tired of being a woman. I’m fucking done with it. It’s too much. Every four weeks?! 

[Biz laughs.] 

Who designed this?! What a nightmare! [Sighs heavily.] We’re having leftovers for dinner. Thanks for the show.

[Biz laughs.] 

00:55:10

Biz 

Host

I love you so much! I love you so much. I… love you. I seriously love you. This is maybe one of the greatest moms having a breakdown I’ve ever heard. Because you are having a breakdown. And you are doing such a good job! I really—y’know, we don’t even have to spend that much time on this particular breakdown. It’s very, very straightforward. I do like that you start with, “You know what? My kid’s doing a great job!” I mean, we all know the moment you said “online school” that that’s a shit-suck show. Right? Like, even if they do a reasonable job, you’re all trapped at home. And it’s really just not the same. It’s its own level of stress. Then you started your period. 

And I gotta tell ya—I… I actually kinda wish that people were just walking up and down the street doing exactly what you’re doing when they start their period. Just—I mean, I’m completely okay with just walking past menstruating people. [Laughs.] Crying. Yelling. Whatever it is they need to do. I support that. The pain? Look. Here’s the thing I’ve learned—people have very different periods. Big surprise, everybody! And as we age, it changes. And when we have kids, it changes. And— [Laughs.] Aaah! It is frustrating! I’m with you. I’m 100% with you. I hate having a period. I am sure somebody out there fucking loves it. But I don’t. I’m with you. It is just—aaaaah! [Laughs.] Aaaah! Who did create this? Who did design it? I don’t know. And why—why does it somehow rob us of power? 

And like—I don’t understand how we have to carry this burden and yet people have used it to, y’know, do everything from burn us at the stake to not let us be President of the United States! [Laughs.] Again—that’s why I’m usually crying in the middle of the streets. And there was this sound in the background. I believe—Gabe and I both think it was a turn signal. And it never stops. So I’m assuming you’re just sitting [through laughter] somewhere—maybe you pulled over? Like a responsible person? To make this call. Or maybe you’re just driving with a turn signal on the entire time. I like to think of it, though, not as a turn signal. I like to think it’s really more symbolic of the never-ending rhythm of your monthly cycle. I think you’re wonderful. I think you’re doing an amazing job. And I really see you. And I—I wish for you all the things that bring you comfort during this time. You’re doing such a good job. 

00:58:36

Biz 

Host

Wow. Everybody? I had a really fun time on today’s show. All parts of it! From listening to our check-in at the beginning where our caller, y’know, just said they had to do something that really wasn’t something they wanted to do. Really wasn’t like, “Yayyy! I get to set up a bunch of meetings with the principal and the school counselor.” But they did it! They did it and they recognized that they did it. That… is key right there. You recognized that you did a thing that wasn’t something you necessarily wanted to do, but you did it. And you knew it was the right thing to do. And they’re doing such a good job. All the way to our really remarkable mom having a breakdown. That… that was just so stellar and honest. And you’re doing a good job. 

To the lovely Kathlena, who is possibly one of the most remarkable people I’ve ever met. I mean… wow! That feels like the kind of person I can hang out with and just constantly learn from! As well as giggle with. She is very funny. And for sure we’re gonna clearly have her back on the show to keep dropping these wisdom bombs on us left and right. What I don’t think we had in the show was our conversation about finger guns and finger phasers. You know what? Gabe, if we have a little of that, we’ll just put that right at the end as a little bonus. Ta-daaa! Bonus! Because Kathlena deserves bonus. But what I really took away from her was just… that we all have responsibilities. And it is important that we take them on to the best of our abilities. And that when things seem very hard and seem like too much effort and it feels like no one cares, that they do care. And even if they don’t care right now in this moment? They’re gonna care a generation from now. 

I mean, you can see this in so many aspects of our life right now? Even in just ten years, the difference between kids ten years ago who were exploring their gender identity—here we are, ten years later, and thanks to them? And the conversations they were willing to have and the leadership that they showed has allowed my children and many other children to explore this in a freer, safer environment. No, it’s not perfect. But they’re gonna wind up making it better for the next five years. The kids who are coming along ten years from now. And as well as for the parents! Remember, you’re not just opening doors for all of our children. You’re opening doors for each other. It’s just another way we can make it so we can feel less alone. Because that’s the thing to remember—you’re not alone. You really aren’t. You are all doing a remarkable job. And I’ll talk to you next week. Byeeeee!

01:02:15

Music

Music

“Mama Blues” by Cornbread Ted and the Butterbeans. Strumming acoustic guitar with harmonica and lyrics.

I got the lowdown momma blues

Got the the lowdown momma blues

Gots the lowdown momma blues

The lowdown momma blues. 

Gots the lowdown momma blues

Got the lowdown momma blues

You know that’s right.

[Music fades.]

01:02:39

Biz 

Host

We’d like to thank MaxFun; our producer, Gabe Mara; our husbands, Stefan Lawrence and Jesse Thorn; our perfect children, who provide us with inspiration to say all these horrible things; and of course, you, our listeners. To find out more about the songs you heard on today’s podcast and more about the show, please go to MaximumFun.org/onebadmother. For information about live shows, our book and press, please check out OneBadMotherPodcast.com.

01:03:08

Theresa

Host

One Bad Mother is a member of the Maximum Fun family of podcasts. To support the show go to MaximumFun.org/join.

[Music resumes for a while before fading out.]

01:03:31

Music

Transition

A cheerful ukulele chord.

01:03:32

Speaker 1

Guest

MaximumFun.org.

01:03:34

Speaker 2

Guest

Comedy and culture.

01:03:35

Speaker 3

Guest

Artist owned—

01:03:36

Speaker 4

Guest

—Audience supported.

01:03:38

Biz 

Host

And do you have any questions for me before we get going?

01:03:40

Kathlena 

Guest

No, I just feel like this is gonna be wildly fun and crazy, y’know? 

01:03:44

Biz 

Host

I like it! Yeah!

01:03:45

Kathlena 

Guest

Like—

01:03:46

Biz 

Host

Pyew, pyew! 

[Kathlena laughs.] 

01:03:48

Kathlena 

Guest

[Through laughter] Yeah.

01:03:49

Biz 

Host

Don’t be allergic to finger guns! [Makes shooting noise.]

01:03:51

Kathlena 

Guest

No, I love finger guns! I’m more of a [makes clicking noise]. See that’s—yeah, that’s my style.”

01:03:55

Biz 

Host

Oh, that’s like Old West! That’s nice. [Makes clicking noise.] I’m like a… Star Wars. Pyew, pyew!

01:04:00

Kathlena 

Guest

Yeah, you are, actually!

01:04:01

Biz 

Host

I know.

01:04:03

Kathlena 

Guest

I think yours are more like finger lasers, then. You can’t call them guns.

01:04:05

Biz 

Host

You’re right. Or—if I wanted to go even nerdier, I could be like, they are my Star Trek and I could be like, they are my finger phasers. Pyew, pyew!

01:04:15

Kathlena 

Guest

You know what? I actually like that better.

01:04:17

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz: Yeah, I kinda do.

Kathlena: I think you should call ‘em finger phasers.

01:04:19

Biz 

Host

I have a feeling we are now best friends. So.

01:04:21

Kathlena 

Guest

I’m totally cool with that! Okay.

01:04:23

Biz 

Host

Yeah. Me, too. I think so.