TRANSCRIPT One Bad Mother Episode 435: Let’s Make It Less Awkward, with Paulina Pinsky

00:00:00

Biz Ellis

Host

Hi. I’m Biz.

00:00:01

Theresa Thorn

Host

And I’m Theresa.

00:00:02

Biz

Host

Due to the pandemic, we bring you One Bad Mother straight from our homes—including such interruptions as: children! Animal noises! And more! So let’s all get a little closer while we have to be so far apart. And remember—we are doing a good job.

00:00:21

Music

Music

“Summon the Rawk” by Kevin MacLeod. Driving electric guitar and heavy drums.

[Continues through dialogue.]

00:00:25

Biz

Host

This week on One Bad Mother—let’s make it less awkward! We talk about all the hard to talk about stuff with author Paulina Pinsky. Plus, Biz didn’t have to do any of the work.

00:00:36

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz and caller: [Quietly] Woooo!

00:00:41

Caller

Caller

[Whispering throughout.] My dog agrees.

[Biz laughs.] 

This is a secret, but also a woo, a check-in. I’m trying to plan out dealing with family for Thanksgiving this year? And it’s really hard and dramatic and everybody has things to say about everything. And I started fantasizing about having Thanksgiving alone. Like, not even my immediate family. Like, me and this dog in my house. Like, I’m gonna cook a turkey all by myself. And I wanna make potatoes the way that I like them. And then after I make this meal by myself—for myself—like, it’s way, way, way too big then I have leftovers for days. And in this scenario, my husband has taken the children to my mother-in-law’s house and then I don’t feel bad for somehow miracle reason for not joining them. But man. The fantasy’s just really giving me life right now.

[Biz laughs.] 

And just—I don’t know. I don’t know if I can make this happen or like… [sighs.] I don’t know, man. But anyways. Everybody’s doing a good job and I hope planning for Thanksgiving isn’t as much of a shitshow for you as it is for me. Bye!

00:02:05

Biz

Host

[Whispering] Goodbye! You’re doing a wonderful job! Let’s only whisper from now on. What if this became the whispering podcast? [Laughs.] I don’t think it would be possible. [Regular voice] Because I cannot whisper-laugh. First of all, you are doing an excellent job. I have a few things to say about this check-in. One, guys, I know Thanksgiving is past us. But other holidays are here, and this—this call… really is relatable to any family gathering of importance. Two, this falls into a genius category of “Theresa and dreamt of pie” category. If you have not heard this genius, it was way back a while ago. Theresa comes in and says, “My genius is… I had a dream about eating pie.” And I sat there expectantly waiting for them to—to say more. And they didn’t. And I found this hysterical. Fantasizing about your own solo—except with the dog—Thanksgiving, I think, is amazing. Last thing on it is—you could make this happen. Doesn’t have to happen at Thanksgiving! It doesn’t! You could send your partner and your kids away. At a time that’s convenient and less stressful, holiday-wise, but have them be gone a few days. And then you make yourself a turkey! Or you order yourself a cooked turkey. And your potatoes. And your pie, and whatever else. You make it all then, and then… you get to eat it! I remember when I was single and living alone, I would go to my folks’ house and have a big Thanksgiving dinner and get to take home all the leftovers, and then I came home to a apartment with a cat and I just laid around and watched television for the next few days. I miss that so much! So I think you are doing… you’re doing such a good [through laughter] job! And I wish this Thanksgiving dinner for two, that you and your dog, I wish this for you. 

You know what I also wish for? I wish that a day never went by that we weren’t thanking those who deserve it!

00:04:44

Music

Music

Heavy electric guitar and driving percussion overlaid with “Ohh, oh-oh, oh-oh” and “Hey-ey-ey-ey-ey-ey” lyrics.

00:04:58

Biz

Host

Alright! Guys, we’re here. We’re recording this in the middle of December. It is almost a holiday for somebody. Really, it’s one of those times of the year that you can just throw a rock in any direction. You can throw the rock forward in time. You can throw the rock backwards in time, and you’ll hit a holiday of some kind. And I think it is important to say—thank you to everybody in the medical field, because you are working during these different holidays. And I really see you. I know that is a difficult and hard choice. And really not always a choice. And so… thank you. 

And I want to thank everybody who’s helping families or individuals get from point A to point B. You may be people who help on the phone. You may be a customer service person who’s helping with flights being nuts or weather-related stuff or things being cancelled because of COVID! ‘K? That’s happening. That’s happening everywhere. So thank you for helping us feel like we have a chance of getting somewhere? And if we do get somewhere, that it was clean and safe to do it. So thank you, thank you, thank you. 

I would also like to thank all teachers and everybody who works in relation to educating our children and caring for them. I hope you’re having a nice break. I really do. I hope you’re having a turkey for just you and somebody special, and that’s it. And no one else. I know that’s not the case, but I see you and I appreciate you. Thank you. 

Post office employees, as well as UPS, FedEx, DHL—whoever! Whoever! Whatever delivery company you’re working for? Wow. A, you guys got a lot of bad PR with the whole “nothing’s gonna be able to be shipped anywhere!” So that’s not on you. That just means you’re probably dealing with a lot of freaked out people, ‘cause we all wait ‘til the last minute to get our packages in. So sorry about that, and thank you for your patience, and thank you for getting out there and delivering all this stuff. 

And lastly, it’s the holidays. And… for some, that is really fun. And for others, it is really difficult time. Especially after the last year and a half and all of the people that we have lost. And all of the things that are very different in our lives. And so I really want to say thank you to those of you who volunteer at your crisis center, on the National Suicide Hotline centers—any of you who are out there providing a voice to help comfort those who really might be seeking that this year. Thank you so much. And we will link up in our show notes the links and numbers to the Crisis Hotline and to the Suicide Hotline. So just wanna make sure that you guys know you are really appreciated.

00:08:19

Biz

Host

Speaking of things that I appreciate—oo! But before I get into it, I need you to know… the topic is Santa. Keep that in mind as you continue to listen. [Laughs.] Ellis—Ellis! I have to kind of whisper myself ‘cause he’s in the other room ‘cause winter break! Anyway. Ellis… yesterday—as far as I know—Ellis still believes in Santa. And that’s great. We are not myth-busters in this house. Alright? But Ellis has started—on their own—without needing anything from us—saying, “Maybe there isn’t a Santa. Maybe… it’s the postal service. Maybe there’s a—” 

I swear to you guys, this was all in their head. All their own invention. That there’s a crack team of special—a special division of the US Postal Service that just handles the Santa letters. Right? That come in. And this is why Santa has been going for so long. Right? Because there’s always been a—as long as the Post Office has been around, it’s been happening. And it’s how they know where everybody lives. Oh, and Ellis’s favorite point was—that’s how they know if you’ve been good or bad, ‘cause they’re checking on you every single day when they come and bring the mail. They’re everywhere! And it’s how they can get stuff all over the world in one night. 

I think this is the most brilliant theory ever, and the theory teeters also on the fact that Santa could also still be real, it’s just that Santa’s running this op. Right? Like this is a special op team. So this has made my life much easier. Because I haven’t had to have any conversations. And they haven’t come home, like, with the like, “There’s no Santa!” Right? Like, they’ve come home and just been like—I’m sure people are talking about it. They’ve just worked this out in their own head. They’ve made the cross between fantasy and reality be something that just works out? And makes sense? I actually think it’s a wonderful—wonderful, wonderful theory! So anyway, that made life a lot easier and I was able to avoid an awkward conversation that I didn’t wanna have, which I think ties in well to what we’re going to be talking about today with Paulina Pinsky and her new book that she wrote with her dad, Dr. Drew: It Doesn’t Have to Be Awkward: Dealing with Relationships, Consent, and Other Hard to Talk About Stuff.

00:11:07

Music

Music

Banjo strums; cheerful banjo music continues through dialogue.

00:11:08

Theresa

Host

Please—take a moment to remember: If you’re friends of the hosts of One Bad Mother, you should assume that when we talk about other moms, we’re talking about you.

00:11:15

Biz

Host

If you are married to the host of One Bad Mother, we definitely are talking about you.

00:11:19

Theresa

Host

Nothing we say constitutes professional parenting advice.

00:11:22

Biz

Host

Biz and Theresa’s children are brilliant, lovely, and exceedingly extraordinary.

00:11:26

Theresa

Host

Nothing said on this podcast about them implies otherwise.

[Banjo music fades out.] 

[Biz and her guest repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss the weekly topic.]

00:11:32

Biz

Host

This week, I am so very excited to have Paulina Pinsky, who is a writer and writing coach based on Brooklyn. She received her MFA in Nonfiction Creative Writing from Columbia University, where she teaches comedy writing [through laughter] to high schoolers! Oh! That could be a separate show. She co-authored It Doesn’t Have to Be Awkward with her dad, making it awkward. [Laughs.] Internist and television personality, Dr. Drew Pinsky. [Singing] Welcoooome, Paulina!

00:12:03

Paulina Pinsky

Guest

Thank you so much for having me. 

00:12:04

Biz

Host

I am so glad that you are here. You’re so much more fun than your dad! 

00:12:09

Paulina

Guest

Oh, believe me, I know.

00:12:11

Biz

Host

I know you know.

[Both laugh.]

00:12:13

Biz

Host

Before we get into the book—and I feel like, already, I know we could talk about anything. I already feel like we’re BFFs from way back.

00:12:21

Paulina

Guest

Oh, yeah.

00:12:22

Biz

Host

But I guess I should find out something about you. [Laughs.] 

[Paulina laughs.] 

As my new BFF. Who lives in your house?

00:12:29

Paulina

Guest

I live with my fiancé, and our cat and dog. But the—I mean, the cat was originally my child and then the dog was originally his child, so we’re a mixed household.

00:12:40

Biz

Host

How’d that go? How’d that blending go?

00:12:42

Paulina

Guest

The cat was not happy for quite some time.

00:12:44

Biz

Host

Never happy. [Laughs.] 

00:12:45

Paulina

Guest

But now—like, they play.

00:12:48

Biz

Host

Are they baby friends?

00:12:49

Paulina

Guest

Oh my god, they’re baby friends.

00:12:52

Biz

Host

[In baby voice] Oh, they’re baby friends! [Regular voice] This is how I’ve raised my children to talk to animals. [In baby voice] Oh, it’s a baby! [Garbled nonsense.]

00:12:59

Paulina

Guest

Listen, that’s the only way to address them, I think.

00:13:01

Biz

Host

I wanna talk about this book. It is called—I’m gonna give it the full title, everybody, get ready. It Doesn’t Have to Be Awkward: Dealing with Relationships, Consent, and Other Hard to Talk About Stuff. The title says it really all. You wrote this with your dad, AKA Dr. Drew. Nothing awkward about the fact that you’ve got a Dr. Drew bobblehead—that’s your father. You’ve got like a dad bobblehead sitting right in front of you, which is—

00:13:32

Paulina

Guest

He's always watching.

00:13:33

Biz

Host

He’s—and judging! With that nodding head! Judge. Judge.

00:13:38

Paulina

Guest

I will say this bobblehead is very funny to me. Y’know? He’s got a little bit of a… like, a Jerry Brown face? Like… it’s a little pinched? But his—

00:13:49

Biz

Host

It’s a little pinched.

00:13:50

Paulina

Guest

It’s a little pinched. But I think that that’s probably good, ‘cause then you can set him and he’ll just be watching with you with a pinched face.

00:13:57

Biz

Host

So judging everything you’ve ever done—

[Paulina laughs.]

—and continue to do. But okay. So you wrote it with him. Again, everything in here—well some stuff, it’s like, “Ha, ha, it’s not that awkward to talk about with your dad or really anybody!” And then it gets really awkward. Not awkward. It just gets really intentional and… it covers so many things. And I wanna get into many of those things, but I wanna start with the very generic interview question, that is—

00:14:31

Paulina

Guest

Please.

00:14:32

Biz

Host

Why—how—what led to the book? Any of those questions? 

00:14:38

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Paulina: Yeah. I can tell you exactly.

Biz: Give it to me. Good. 

00:14:42

Paulina

Guest

So Fall of 2019, my dad was approached by an agent at his, y’know.

00:14:48

Biz

Host

Whatever. Where things happen.

00:14:49

Paulina

Guest

His thing. Yeah. 

[Biz laughs.] 

Someone pitched it to him. Y’know, it was sort of post-MeToo and he liked the idea but he understood that he’s an old man and that he needed a young perspective. And I had just graduated from Columbia three months prior? [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

And I’m a writer. And—

00:15:11

Biz

Host

You’re also a young person!

00:15:13

Paulina

Guest

I’m also a young person. I am not yet thirty.

00:15:16

Biz

Host

I’m just saying, in the grand scheme—not calling you—

00:15:20

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz: “You’re old. Don’t worry.”

Paulina: Oh, no, no, no. I am—I am— [Laughs.] 

00:15:23

Biz

Host

But you know what I mean, it’s—you are the thing that he could not write about. [Laughs.] 

00:15:28

Paulina

Guest

Absolutely. Absolutely! No, I am truly a child. I mean, I’m not a child—well—

[Both laugh.]

In the context of my father, I guess I am a child. But! What happened is I was selling t-shirts at my dad’s podcasting event—because my mom made me—and he walked up and he was like, “We sold the consent book today.” And I was like, “What consent book?”

[Biz laughs.] 

He’s like, “The consent book! We talked about it!” And I was like, “Mm.” And the thing about my dad is that he is always working. And he is always pitching. So, y’know, I could have said, “Yeah,” y’know, in passing. But I don’t remember it. Which is why I called it “the consent book I didn’t consent to” for a while? 

00:16:13

Biz

Host

Consent to! I was gonna say! Yeah! There’s a little finagling there. Go ahead.

00:16:16

Paulina

Guest

Right. But then once I understood what a huge opportunity this was? I realized that I was in a privileged position and I—y’know, I didn’t have to do it, but I felt called to. And… y’know, we wrote it in six months, and y’know we sat on this book from June 2020 ‘til it released this past fall. And… I have to say, y’know, my dad and I—while writing this book—y’know, we’re both intellectual people. And so we were able to speak about things abstractly? However, y’know, through promoting this book, we created a framework that facilitated conversations that we’ve never had. And it’s interesting, because writing this book was an absolute blur? But I have to tell you that TCB as a framework has saved my life.

00:17:15

Biz

Host

Yeah. I wanna jump right into that, because the whole book starts—like, you start it by saying—if you’re gonna read one chapter, just—you can skim around the book all you want, but you gotta get through Chapter 1, which explains TCB—not “taking care of business,” though it is taking care of business.

00:17:33

Paulina

Guest

Oh, it is.

00:17:34

Biz

Host

In so many ways. It’s taking care of ya own business.

00:17:36

Paulina

Guest

Absolutely.

00:17:37

Biz

Host

I want you—and you’re right. It—we’re gonna have a lot to talk about later. It’s a book that I had some hard—I mean, I talk about triggers. Let’s—but let’s start with… what is TCB at its core?

00:17:54

Paulina

Guest

Okay. So I’ll tell you the origin of TCB and then I will move into what TCB in the context of “it doesn’t have to be awkward.” So I’ve been obsessed with Elvis Presley since I was ten years old. [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

00:18:07

Biz

Host

That’s good! Hunka hunka burnin’ love!

00:18:11

Paulina

Guest

I literally pray to Elvis. I don’t pray to God, I pray to Elvis. And I was a competitive figure skater from ages five to eighteen—

[Biz laughs.] 

—and before every ice-skating competition, I would hold onto my TCB necklace, rub my hearts, and squeeze my butt cheeks, and pray to Elvis. And Elvis as a human being is problematic. I’m not going to deny that.

00:18:34

Biz

Host

Sure. Lotta problems.

00:18:35

Paulina

Guest

But so is the Catholic Church. So…

00:18:37

Biz

Host

Yeah! Oh, yeah! Surprise! Anyway. Go ahead.

00:18:40

Paulina

Guest

And so he became sort of a religious deity for me? And when we were talking about this book, TCB is my first tattoo. I have it on my ribcage. TCB was sort of, y’know, a mantra that I lived by, if you will. And so when we were talking about this book, TCB was obviously something that was important to me and so we created the framework “Trust, Compassion, and Boundaries.” The idea being that in order to consent—in order to understand what you believe, you have to trust yourself, have compassion with yourself, and know your own boundaries in order to trust someone else, have compassion for someone else, and respect their boundaries.

00:19:24

Biz

Host

Just—let’s just let that mic drop for a second. ‘Cause that one—I have to say, I kinda kept going back to that. And you do such a good job of every step of the way in the book talking—like, checking back in on the trust, the compassion, and the boundaries. Which is really helpful to see how they apply to all of the different situations, whether it be friendship; whether it be identity; whether it be parties and drugs and alcohol. All the way to the sex and making out and then the really tricky stuff of consent. Of, y’know, what happens if something has happened to you, and what happens if you think you have done something to someone? And I… it… it really pushed me, as a—as a reader, as well as a rape survivor, to apply those things? And it’s such a remarkably dynamic combination. The very—one of the very first stories you tell regarding this is—and you can tell it better. But it’s of the girl, the friend, and her best friend and her boyfriend are at a party, and the best friend and the boyfriend are drunk. And the best friend and the boyfriend kiss. And now we’ve got our protagonist—the girl whose boyfriend and best friend kiss—and okay. So now—obviously, the answer is, “Fuck all of you! Trust no one!” 

[Paulina laughs.] 

“You will come to me and I will give you a curse and we will hex them both!”

00:21:13

Paulina

Guest

I don’t remember that part.

00:21:14

Biz

Host

You don’t remember the hexing? Oh. That’s—

[Paulina laughs.] 

I think my family’s so normal, until later. Don’t meet us in a dark alley. We’ll cut you.

[Paulina laughs.] 

So—because I’m sure there are other listeners who are like, yeah, I’m going with Team Attack. Biz. Lay it on us. Lay it on us how that—

00:21:35

Paulina

Guest

Yeah. And so throughout the book, there are numerous scenarios where TCB has been failed. Right? And ultimately, the way that we address it in the book is, we truly go through, “Is there trust?” Obviously the best friend has broken the trust. But also, so has the boyfriend! Right? Then we go to compassion. When the best friend kissed the boyfriend, that was not compassionate. When the boyfriend kissed the best friend, that was not compassionate. However, the best friend and the victim need to show compassion for themselves. Right? And finally, boundaries. Boundaries were transgressed. Boundaries were steamrolled. Right? And so if you go through that checklist and you don’t have trust, and you don’t have compassion, and you don’t have boundaries, the relationship fails. Now, we talk about obviously trust is something that can be rebuilt. Right?

00:22:38

Biz

Host

Yeah. I gotta tell ya, thanks for putting that in there. I mean, ‘cause it’s—[sighs]. I dunno. That… we’ll talk more about that. Anyway. Go ahead. Yes. [Laughs.] 

00:22:49

Paulina

Guest

Y’know, it’s—ultimately, y’know, so I—in my early 20s—studied at the Second City Conservatory. And one of the sort of foundational rules of improv there is playing to the height of your intelligence. And ultimately, what happened is, y’know, we have all these scenarios and we went through it, playing to the height of our intelligence. Right? Obviously, an experience like that would be deeply emotional. Right? However, if you pause and you have this framework to check through, that allows you to play to the height of your intelligence. Right? And that can be your intellectual intelligence and that can be your emotional intelligence as well. And y’know, it’s interesting because all those scenarios, y’know, I—my personal favorite is Talladega and Scorpion?

00:23:37

Biz

Host

Yesss! [Laughs.]

00:23:40

Biz

Host

Alright. Tell us about Talladega and Scorpion. 

00:23:43

Paulina

Guest

So Talladega and Scorpion are best friends. And I believe Scorpion has feelings for Talladega. And Scorpion texts Talladega—“Scorp,” as I like to call them—and tells their friend, y’know, “I would like to talk to you after school if that’s okay.” They check in to see if—that’s a boundary, right? And they have ethe conversation and it turns out that Talladega does not have this reciprocal feelings for Scorpion. And because of that, they take some space. And that’s the scenario. And ultimately what we’re trying to show there is… you have to communicate clearly. Right? Even if it means your heart being broken. And ultimately, you have to play to the height of your intelligence in terms of… doing what’s best for each party. Right? 

00:24:38

Biz

Host

Yeah, but that’s hard! Okay. That—I’m a grown-ass woman who’s like, “That’s hard!” 

[Both laugh.]

00:24:46

Paulina

Guest

It’s true! It’s incredibly difficult.

00:24:47

Biz

Host

But this is—well, this is incredibly helpful for all ages. This is no question this is geared towards sort of—

00:24:56

Paulina

Guest

Twelve-to-nineteen-year-olds. 

00:24:57

Biz

Host

Twelve to nineteen. I have a twelve-year-old. A part of me wants to run through the house and, like a grenade, toss this book over my shoulder, hurling it into their room, slamming the door shut, right, and then running. But I shouldn’t, also, because there’s some things we need to talk about. I will be… very… well, very honest. 

00:25:21

Paulina

Guest

Tell me!

00:25:22

Biz

Host

Very honest. That is the fucking point of the show, isn’t it? 

00:25:25

Paulina

Guest

Tell me.

00:25:26

Biz

Host

So I know what’s coming for my children. Right? I hope a life of wonder and joy and love and tenderness and kindness. I will spend my entire life in therapy dealing with the fact that no matter how much I wish that, there is still a chance that they will get hurt. Or… hurt someone else. And that’s all of the baggage I get to carry around with myself and work through and sort through and try not to place on or displace—right? Like, it’s… y’know, we have talked about lots of these issues since birth. Y’know. The old, “Well you said to stop tickling so I’ve stopped tickling!” Y’know? If—it’s not a game when you say, “No.” “No” is not a game. You have to be really clear. And all those sorts of things. Everybody knows what their body parts are called and blah, blah, blah. [Laughs.] Plus we get—

00:26:27

Paulina

Guest

The internet exists now.

00:26:29

Biz

Host

Plus we go to a big old progressive school so everybody’s talking about everything all the time.

00:26:32

Paulina

Guest

Oh, yeah. 

00:26:33

Biz

Host

But having the conversations we have not had? Are the conversations about—I mean, outside of saying things like, “No one has a right to take pictures of you; no one has a right to touch you.” My mother used to just say—the extent of the consent talk growing up was, “You can be laying naked in a ditch and nobody has the right to touch you.”

00:26:53

Paulina

Guest

You know, that is actually more of a consent talk than most people get.

00:26:57

Biz

Host

What is so wonderful about your book that I really—if people—I cannot recommend it enough to people. But you really hammer home what is and what is not consent. In particular, you hammer home what is not. Even in that first example of the best friend kissing the boyfriend when they were both drunk, one of the questions you ask in your checking of the TCB little question list is, “Did Alex have the right—” that’s the boy “—to kiss Mia or Nia,” I dunno. To kiss her. And the answer is, no! You don’t have—because she was under the influence, she does not have consent. And you still go further in other examples of Alex being under the influence. Right? Like, it—and so…

00:27:48

Paulina

Guest

Yeah. We do maintain the stance that if you’re under the influence, you cannot consent. 

00:27:52

Biz

Host

Right! You cannot consent. And so I wanna talk about… you say your dad came and said, “We sold the consent book.” I mean, I don’t know if I really knew that’s what I was gonna start reading when I started it. And… can you talk to me a little bit about… how you got to some of these places in the book and… y’know, did you guys ever track one way and then think, like, “I need to—we need to track back. That’s not enough or it’s too much.” 

00:28:27

Paulina

Guest

The goal was to take consent out of the sexual context. The idea being that if you can’t—you don’t know how to practice consent before you get into a sexual situation, there’s no way—

00:28:35

Biz

Host

Ooooh! Damn! That’s right!

00:28:37

Paulina

Guest

—you can know how to consent in a sexual context.

00:28:39

Biz

Host

How did you guys get to that? I mean, you guys are talking—you’re like—I don’t fucking know. But like—that’s such a great point! Making consent be part of this non-sexual aspect and understanding really how to set boundaries; how to implement it before you get into situations that become trickier and murkier and… and at times dangerous. You guys had to have had a conversation! What was it? “Hey, Dad—"

00:29:17

Paulina

Guest

We did! Y’know, I—it’s so funny. Well I actually had a consultant—this colleague of mine named Haylin Belay. She’s a brilliant sex educator. And y’know we sold the book and I was like… I’m an imposter. I am not a sex educator. I have problems with consent, clearly, in my own life.

[Biz laughs.] 

Clearly. Y’know. And… we sat with her and the foundation of the ideas really came from her. And… I am forever indebted to her? But we were sitting on the Subway and after meeting with my dad and she looked at me and she said, “Listen. You’re not going to reinvent the wheel. There are people who study this who make this their lives. But you can kind of regurgitate what you learn.” Right?

00:30:05

Biz

Host

Well… what you did was you used your voice. And you used humor and you used… creating a understandable framework for… kids. Y’know. For tweens and teens. I mean, you use… sexual attraction—he’s hot; she’s hot; they’re hot; you’re hot! I mean, kissing and wooing and hugging and blah, blah, blah. Y’know, those are the names of your titles. That’s not the name of her chapter titles!

00:30:33

Paulina

Guest

No, it’s—she’s really not that far off.

[Biz laughs.] 

It’s pretty much— [Laughs.] 

00:30:37

Biz

Host

Woo-hoo! Honk, honk! Aaoogah! Very profound book. But that’s something that you can bring. I don’t care if there’s a hundred books out there on—they all need to be there, right? 

00:30:49

Paulina

Guest

Yeah. Yeah. That’s the truth. I bought all of the books that were on the market on the same topic. It’s interesting. I had just started teaching at LAM College—

00:30:59

Biz

Host

You’re teaching humor at high school.

00:31:02

Paulina

Guest

I know. I know. And I was teaching New Media at the time. So the comedy—the comedy writing—this will be my fifth year teaching it, actually? Working at LAM I was privileged enough to have access to the primary group of people who this would impact? And I was getting in trouble because—

[Biz laughs.] 

—I was asking questions about my book and recording it and one of the students went to my higher-up and told on me? And so they were like, “You have to have an IRB board certification—all that.” Which I didn’t know because I was, y’know.

00:31:35

Biz

Host

You don’t have a bobblehead making you a doctor!
 

[Paulina laughs.] 

How are you supposed to know?

00:31:40

Paulina

Guest

Exactly. Exactly! And so it was a really interesting period of time in my life because, y’know, I had just come out of the MFA and I was teaching for this time as an adjunct and I was being underpaid—

[Biz laughs.] 

—and I had access to this group of kids that, y’know, I am privately educated K-12 through graduate school. And LAM College exposed me to reality. And the reality is, is that, y’know, kids will turn in a college-level paper with no punctuation and all lower-cap. And it really showed me who I was writing to. Right? And… obviously writing education and capitalizations and periods, like, that is like enforcement of sort of like… structure and rules and things like that? And I had to pull a student aside and be like, “Listen, I’ll give you the opportunity to rewrite this, but in the future if you turn in a resume with this? You’re not gonna get the job.” Right? And so… I learned a lot about sort of… my own privilege? And I learned about sort of the state of education? And… I learned that… these were the people that I was writing to. And I had the privilege of having access to them and I wouldn’t have otherwise. And teaching at that school, though difficult and strange and truly, y’know, I had to—I had to tell people, y’know—I couldn’t tell people. They didn’t want us to shame them for their phones? And so I wasn’t allowed to be like, “Put your phone down,” but I had to facilitate conversations that made them wanna put their phone down. And… I learned that I have the power to do that? And it’s interesting. I’m going down a tangent. But ultimately, y’know, 2019—fall of 2019, I was falling in love—

00:33:38

Biz

Host

Big growth. Big growth. [Laughs.] 

00:33:40

Paulina

Guest

Yeah. It was a—exposure, y’know? Exposure is how you sort of bust ignorance. Y’know.

00:33:47

Biz

Host

Again, everybody, this shows you why having diversity on our bookshelves and having diversity on our television set plays such a fucking key—

00:33:56

Paulina

Guest

It does!

00:33:57

Biz

Host

—Role! So you address that within this. And you also are really great at addressing—especially in the identity part—you give tools to teens when they are in situations or with parents or with people who aren’t there yet. Who don’t understand—have their own baggage that comes with it.

00:34:21

Paulina

Guest

Absolutely. Yeah.

00:34:23

Biz

Host

To me, the book could be a hundred thousand more pages. Because as you start to pull that thread of, “We need to include this or make an example of this,” we could just go on and on. Was there any place you wanted to go or that you and your dad wanted to go that you didn’t get a chance to go to? 

00:34:44

Paulina

Guest

Absolutely, but we can’t remember anymore. [Laughs.] 

00:34:47

Biz

Host

You can’t remember anymore! Dammit! You’ll never get a second book out of this! Aaah!

00:34:52

Paulina

Guest

I’m sure if we went in our Google Docs we could find it ‘cause we wrote it all on Google Docs ‘cause I was in New York and he’s in Los Angeles, and it’s interesting—

00:35:00

Biz

Host

That makes the awkward conversations a little easier, doesn’t it?

00:35:02

Paulina

Guest

I know! I know! That’s part of it, is we were able to sort of—it’s interesting, because like… on one hand, y’know… people sit behind a screen and it enables them to throw out vitriol and toxicity and after doing this—all the media for this book—every podcast that I’ve been on—and of course I look at the comments because I’m a masochist.

00:35:25

Biz

Host

Don’t worry! You won’t get any here! We are horrible at social media! [Laughs.] 

00:35:28

Paulina

Guest

Oh, thank god. Thank god.

00:35:30

Biz

Host

We are just a loyal group of tired people. [Laughs.] 

00:35:31

Paulina

Guest

Listen. My favorite. Please—please be too tired to hurt me.

00:35:37

Biz

Host

Yeah. Oh! [Laughs.] 

[Paulina laughs.] 

I will never go look at a comment fucking ever. 

00:35:42

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Paulina: Don’t. Don’t do it.

Biz: Anyway. Go ahead. 

00:35:44

Paulina

Guest

What I learned is that people are just reacting. Right? And that’s it. Like… and y’know, obviously being behind a screen empowers you in a way because you don’t have to feel the bodily reaction of what you’ve done? Right? And we are strapped to—as T.S. Eliot would say—dying animals. Right?

[Biz laughs.] 

We are strapped to dying animals. But!

00:36:13

Biz

Host

That’s beautiful.

00:36:15

Paulina

Guest

Isn’t it? 

00:36:16

Paulina

Guest

These are perceptive, sensory organisms. And you can’t do TCB if you are not in the presence of somebody else. And we talk about it. It’s like, you can’t practice good TCB online. We talk about how a relationship is a co-created experience, so there’s you and the other person and then the thing that you create together. And you don’t have full access to the bodily information that your body is trying to tell you? If you are behind a screen and they’re behind a screen. Why does Catfish exist, y’know?

00:36:54

Biz

Host

I’m not gonna take us down the gigantic path we could go when it comes to the pandemic and… like, an entire generation of people missing a whole year and a half—kids missing a whole year and a half of tuning that. Whether it be in preschool or kindergarten or fifth grade or… high school. A whole year of not being able to have that instrument tuned. Y’know. I—aaaagh! Bleeegh!

00:37:26

Paulina

Guest

It’s hard! It’s hard! It’s really hard!

00:37:28

Biz

Host

Alright. This is—I actually have one last question for you. The book focuses on these hard discussions, right? Whether you’re having them with yourself or whether you’re having them with your kids or with your parents or with loved ones around you. We’ve already talked about the anonymity—a little bit of the permission to hit some awkward stuff when you’re online. When you’re writing it to your dad. But was there—was there anything that you personally discovered was more awkward than you thought it would be? For you. And doesn’t have to be like with him or anything, just more, like, “Oh, this is really…”

00:38:07

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Paulina and Biz: “—awkward.”

00:38:09

Biz

Host

Well, I’ve stumped you.

00:38:12

Paulina

Guest

You have. I haven’t been asked this question. Which is—

00:38:14

Biz

Host

Oh, yeah! I want a book of all the questions that I ask that really professional people don’t!

[Both laugh.]

00:38:22

Paulina

Guest

I can write you a list.

00:38:24

Biz

Host

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

00:38:25

Paulina

Guest

I think… I think I would say… [sighs.] If I had had strong boundaries when this had started, I would’ve said no. 

00:38:35

Biz

Host

To the book?

00:38:37

Paulina

Guest

Yeah. 

00:38:38

Biz

Host

Yeah. 

00:38:39

Paulina

Guest

And… I’m glad I didn’t. And that doesn’t mean that what happened was okay. Y’know? I don’t—I think… I learned how the beast of my father’s brand… has… always been coercive. 

00:38:59

Biz

Host

Mm.

00:39:01

Paulina

Guest

And… y’know, my dad went through shit this year. 

00:39:06

Biz

Host

Oh, did he?

00:39:08

Paulina

Guest

He really went through shit. And… my whole family went through shit. And… because I was given the opportunity to think about how I relate to my dad? As Dr. Drew? As a brand? And then finally as a person? I realized that… I didn’t have… the foundation of a relationship that people expected. 

00:39:42

Biz

Host

That’s interesting. 

00:39:43

Paulina

Guest

And… I’m really good at holding secrets. I’m really good at performing. And I think that is part of my family lineage. And… though it wasn’t necessarily awkward? It was painful. To move through all of those realizations. That being said? I couldn’t have done this without my dad and he couldn’t have done it without me. And… I had—my brother came to New York last week, before Omicron exploded. [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

And we both got out, thankfully, without getting sick. Which could not be said about Greenpoint. Literally there’s an Instagram called Greenpointers and they were documenting every person who got sick and what bar they went to and what venue they went to and the only bar that there wasn’t anything was the one that we chose.

00:40:43

Biz

Host

Jesus. 

00:40:45

Paulina

Guest

And… I have learned the power of family through this. 

00:40:52

Biz

Host

Yeah! How—yeah. This would have also been impactful to the rest of your family. 

00:40:59

Paulina

Guest

My brother—so when we were at the bar, we were with my brother’s best friend from college who’s studying to essentially be a Supreme Court Justice. [Laughs.] 

00:41:08

Biz

Host

Jesus.

00:41:09

Paulina

Guest

And he told me that—from what he’s seen—I have managed to push my family forward. And I think, y’know… going back to my eating disorder—which—I just did an episode with LeeAnn Kreischer on Wife of the Party that I think is pretty phenomenal.

00:41:25

Biz

Host

We will make sure people are linked up to it. Okay. Not even—we haven’t even touched on eating disorders, everybody!

00:41:31

Paulina

Guest

Well I’ll come back and we’ll talk about it.

00:41:33

Biz

Host

We’ll come back and talk about it! We should actually come back and talk about it.

00:41:36

Paulina

Guest

I’m ready.

00:41:37

Biz

Host

You don’t have to be! [Laughs.] 

00:41:38

Paulina

Guest

Oh, I am. I am. I’m ten years into recovery. I’m ready now.

00:41:42

Biz

Host

Good job! Good fucking job!

00:41:44

Paulina

Guest

Thank you. This future Supreme Court Justice who—y’know, I knew as this scrawny kid who went to college with my brother and who couldn’t really make eye contact with me, y’know? 

[Biz laughs.] 

He told me that I pushed my family forward and I think the only way that I was able to do that was recognizing my own illness, and healing it. And so I guess… what I would say is that it’s never as awkward as you think it’s gonna be. It might be painful. But… pain won’t kill you. 

00:42:17

Biz

Host

That’s right. And I… you… you do touch on that in the book, when it comes to… telling others about whatever it is you need to tell them. That it can be difficult and… but that it’s okay to experience all the feelings that you have with that. And… I think one of the things we talk about here is you get both. You get to have this—these feelings that are… hard and… at times angering; at times sad—all of those things, while at the same time recognizing that there is growth coming from it. That they don’t cancel each other out. And… I just have to say what a… “remarkable” is not the right word. [Laughs.] I gotta—I’ll figure out the right word. But everybody who listens to this knows what I’m getting at. And that is—for this book to have come through, you and your father getting through lots of uncomfortable stuff. Right? And some of it having nothing to do with what’s in this book, it sounds like. That’s a lot. And… aside from all of those things that are personal to you and your family, and not to the rest of us, ‘k? This book is a gift. And this book is… y’know, I mean, there were times where I was really upset reading it. Because of my own personal history. And knowing that I’m gonna have to have these conversations at a greater depth. Or that I’m gonna have to hear these things from my children one day. And… it’s… I am very thankful this book is in the world? And… I am thankful that you were brave enough or just… [Laughs.] Dumb enough? [Laughs.] No, not dumb!

00:44:32

Paulina

Guest

Let me tell you the truth. I was stoned. That’s how I got through this.

00:44:35

Biz

Host

You were stoned! There ya go!

[Paulina laughs.] 

00:44:36

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz: If that’s what gets you through, then that’s fine!

Paulina: But I’m—I’m… it got me through. But I have to tell you—

00:44:40

Paulina

Guest

—it is entirely possible to do too many drugs in your twenties. I have to tell you that.

00:44:44

Biz

Host

Oh. Oh. Again… I know. 

[Both laugh.]

But if there’s—but if somewhere in there there’s a strong base, here you are at 47. Alright? Like— [Laughs.] Don’t—all my fingers are still here. [Laughs.] 

00:45:01

Paulina

Guest

Yes! Yes! I—and this can be my final thought.

00:45:04

Biz

Host

Okay!

00:45:06

Paulina

Guest

But Audre Lorde has this essay called—and I always misremember the title. But I think it’s The Uses of the Erotic for Power. And the idea of the essay is that eroticism—sort of the base, primal feeling, right? Whether that’s sexual, creative, y’know, whatever it is—the seed of your being—has been beaten out of women. And sublimated. And… we are currently prioritizing the pornographic, which is feeling without sensation.

00:45:42

Biz

Host

I just gotta say in eroticism, the fact that you even attributed it to something other than sexual is a testament to that. But go ahead. ‘Cause I’m like, “What?” Anyway, go ahead.

00:45:55

Paulina

Guest

Yeah. The erotic being creative and energetic and sensual and… and embodied, right? And she talks about how in World War II, her family would get bags of margarine and in those bags of margarine there would be tiny yellow pellets and you had to break the pellet and disperse it through the margarine. And essentially the erotic exists in each of us as a seed. As a tiny pellet. And it is our life’s work to disperse the erotic and live in the erotic and prioritize the erotic. Because otherwise—

00:46:29

Biz

Host

We’re just a lump of margarine. [Laughs.] 

00:46:32

Paulina

Guest

Yeah! 

[Biz laughs.] 

00:46:35

Biz

Host

Just sitting on a shelf, man. Sitting up there. Not—and it’s margarine! It’s not even the butter, right? Like—y’know. It’s—you are—

00:46:44

Paulina

Guest

I know! Isn’t—margarine itself is pornographic in its own way.

00:46:47

Biz

Host

Right. Oh, yeah. There’s a—people, I have discovered people have opinions on margarine. And those people are in my house.

[Both laugh.]

It’s like, “What do you mean? What do you mean this isn’t butter?” Anyway. Okay. I’m from the South and the ‘80s. Listen to me, Paulina. Thank you for coming on the show. We will link people up—everybody, you know where to get books!

[Paulina laughs.] 

But we’ll make sure you get this book.

00:47:13

Paulina

Host

Independent sellers. Avoid Amazon.

00:47:15

Biz

Host

That’s right! Independent sellers. Exactly. As well as to the podcast that you mentioned where you were talking about your eating disorders and that journey as well as the story—the essay—you just talked about and anything else you want us to link you up to. I hope you have a wonderful holiday. Gabe? It’s clear we need to get Paulina back on. So we can—

00:47:36

Paulina

Host

Any time.

00:47:37

Biz

Host

—talk about—look! It’s on the sticky note!

[Paulina laughs.] 

Everybody, Gabe has sticky notes on his wall and I so appreciate sticky notes. Have a wonderful holiday! My best to you in this new year, and I—now I just—I’m just in love with you now. So now—

00:47:54

Paulina

Host

I’m in love with you, too. 

00:47:55

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz: I’m in love with you. This has been so good.

Paulina: This has been—this has honestly been the most honest I’ve been.

00:47:59

Paulina

Guest

So thank you for facilitating that.

00:48:01

Biz

Host

Well— [Laughs.] Well, welcome to the One Bad Mother! It’s all about honesty!

[Paulina laughs.] 

Jesus! It’s all about, like, “Oh… yeah, no. Ta-daaa! Ta-daaa!” That’s us. Maybe that’ll be this year’s—

00:48:14

Paulina

Guest

I have nothing to hide anymore, truly. It’s just…

00:48:17

Biz

Host

And if you do—as a therapist told me, if you do it in your twenties then there’s really no midlife crisis later on. Thank you for doing this and we will do it again!

00:48:25

Paulina

Guest

Please. It would be an honor, a privilege, and a pleasure. 

00:48:29

Music

Music

“Ones and Zeroes” by “Awesome.” Steady, driving electric guitar with drum and woodwinds.

[Music fades out.]

00:48:47

Music

Promo

Cheerful ukulele music with whistling plays in background.

00:48:48

Biz

Promo

One Bad Mother is supported in part by Dipsea. [Singing] It’s time to seek out pleasure in every area of your life! [Regular voice] Especially the area of your life that involves self-care and self-pleasure! Woo! It’s time to seek out pleasure in every area of your life. Which includes… self-care… and self-pleasure. You deserve it! Dipsea Stories wants you to find joy and confidence in and out of the bedroom. Dipsea Stories is an app full of sexy audio stories. You just close your eyes and let yourself get lost in a world where only good things happen and pleasure is your only priority. Boom! Explore your fantasies in a safe, shame-free way. For listeners of this show, Dipsea is offering an extended 30-day free trial when you to go DipseaStories.com/badmother. That’s 30 days of full access for free when you go to D-I-P-S-E-AStories.com/badmother. DipseaStories.com/badmother. 

[Music fades out.]

00:49:58

Music

Promo

Inspirational keyboard music plays in background.

00:49:59

Biz

Promo

One Bad Mother is supported in part by HelloFresh. The holidays can be hectic ‘cause, y’know, everybody’s home. But HelloFresh can help make that easier. HelloFresh offers 50 menu and market items for you to choose from every week, including vegetarian, calorie-smart, and gourmet options providing plenty of variety. I not only have thoroughly been thankful for having some HelloFresh show up—‘cause I always forget when I’ve ordered HelloFresh and then it shows up and I’m like, “Woo-hoo, hoo, I don’t have to worry about dinner!” Even better, HelloFresh market, right now, has this season’s entertaining covered with options like their holiday cheese and charcuterie board and skinny-dip dark chocolate peppermint almonds! Good god! Go to HelloFresh.com/badmother14 and use code “badmother14” for up to 14 free meals and 3 free gifts. That’s HelloFresh.com/badmother14 and use code “badmother14” for up to 14 free meals and three free gifts.

00:51:04

Theresa

Host

Hey, you know what it’s time for! This week’s genius and fails! This is the part of the show where we share our genius moment of the week, as well as our failures, and feel better about ourselves by hearing yours. You can share some of your own by calling 206-350-9485. That’s 206-350-9485.

00:51:23

Biz

Host

Genius fail time. Genius me, me!

00:51:27

Clip

Clip

[Dramatic, swelling music in background.]

Biz: Wow! Oh my God! Oh my God! I saw what you did! Oh my God! I’m paying attention! Wow! You, mom, are a genius. Oh my God, that’s fucking genius!

00:51:41

Biz

Host

Okay. It’s really simple. Every year we… make lists of presents for the kids. And then it’s like kind of a hodge-podge getting things. And then I swear it feels like on Christmas Eve I’m wrapping things and I’m like, “Oh my god, we only have two things for one kid and eight things for another—” Right? Like, you’re like, “Never—I’m like, aaah!” This year, I already started wrapping items. And when I wrapped them, I wrote down on a list what was wrapped, what was coming, so that I could tell—did we have enough? Was it even? Was it—did it make sense? And so the genius is I did that. And I am feeling very good about sort of having the brain space to have done that this year.

00:52:33

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

So I’m calling in with a genius. Not a parenting genius, but a holiday life genius. That I knew hopefully someone out there would appreciate. So it’s so expensive to buy holiday decorations, especially—just in general. And so I really wanted to have these Christmas tree—the circle ones around in the front yard? But they’re so expensive. So I decided to flip over my tomato cages. And they look cylinder, like a tree, and used some twisty-ties and you wrap some lights around it and voila! Have one! And it’s free! [Laughs.] If you have the lights. Anyways, that’s my genius. Hope everybody’s having a happy holiday. Bye. 

[Biz laughs.] 

00:53:18

Biz

Host

You are a genius! I had to go back and listen to this twice ‘cause I was listening and then somebody was yelling at me from another room and then I heard “tie green twisties and lights” and I was like, “What are we tying them to?” And then I went back and I was like, “Tomato cages?!” And then… time stood still and I basked in the glory of your genius. Turning a tomato cage upside-down is such a good idea! You are doing such a great job! [Laughs.] I love this idea so much! Failures.

00:53:54

Clip

Clip

[Dramatic orchestral music plays in the background.]

Theresa: [In a voice akin to the Wicked Witch of the West] Fail. Fail. Fail. FAIL!

[Timpani with foot pedal engaged for humorous effect.]

Biz: [Calmly] You suck!

00:54:00

Biz

Host

Fail me, me. Okayyy. Okay, I will. Alright, guys. It’s—I would… during the pandemic, one of the things that I did to cope was try to find the absolute perfect pair of blue jeans and t-shirts. ‘K? I don’t know. Whenever something goes on major sale, I start looking to see, y’know. “Ohh, maybe—I don’t know what—” This is just what I’ve decided, at 47, was going to be the thing that I was like—was the pursuit I wanted to take. So recently, there was a store that rhymes with “K Blue,” and they were having one of those sales where it was like 50% off on top of 30%—it was essentially 70-80% off stuff, guys. I could not pass this up, and there they were—a pair of jeans, and the red-and-white flannel shirt. Which I’ve been looking for. Wanted to step out of my t-shirt, sweatshirt comfort zone. And they were—it was such a deal. And I clearly am still really bad at knowing what size clothes I wear. I know which ones don’t fit! So— [Laughs.] So I order in the size I think I am. Of course it’s final sale. 

And they arrive and I am all excited. This is what brings me joy. This is my self-love language. [Through laughter] And they don’t fit at all! The like— [Laughs.] The flannel shirt—which is flattering, color-wise. Which—y’know, it’s hard to find that sometimes! It fits, but it’s like… the longest shirt ever made in the history of the world. And I feel like that’s the universe telling me to go fuck myself because I’ve been so tired of sweatshirts for the last two years being like… kinda right up to your waist. Not long enough. So that’s long enough. Ha, ha. But unflattering with anything. And the jeans? They were just… really… not a good fit. And yeah. I’m a little pouty about it. It’s fine. I’ll make these things work. But! I’m a little pouty about it. They were not the boost, emotionally, that I wanted them to be. And yes, I am fully aware that I should be getting my emotional boosts from other places. But! I’m not right now. So there you go. Anyway. Just—y’know. Stefan—when I was telling Stefan about this, Stefan was like, “We might be at a place where we can start trying clothes on again.” It’s like, “What?!” [Laughs.] “Never!” 

00:56:40

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

Hi! I’m calling today with a personal fail. Not really a kid fail. Although I’m sure I have tons of them. 

[Biz laughs.] 

I just—I had to tell somebody that I did this? So I own a business. It’s a small business. Anyway. So I was out. I was eating, and I was talking to one of my clients, and his wife came in and he was like, “Oh, have you met so-and-so before?” And I was like, “Oh, no, I haven’t!” And he was like, “This is my wife, Julie.” And I said, “Hi! I’m Julie.” And… oh!

[Biz laughs.] 

‘K. So. That’s a good first impression. Alright! That’s it. That’s all. That’s my fail. I just—I—it’s not really like a show-worthy thing? But I need to tell somebody that I did it. ‘K. Bye. 

00:57:33

Biz

Host

Oh, humiliating yourself in front of a client? Is totally show-worthy. Because our brains don’t work well anymore. And that makes me feel better about a lot of the things that I do that are failures on a daily basis. I really— [Laughs.] I really like the like, “Hi, I’m Julie.” [Laughs.] That’s—that’s what I named this call, by the way. And now I just want, y’know, t-shirts that say, “Hi, I’m Julie.” Just because that’s where we all are. We’re all Julie. Do you understand? We are all Julie. And I am sure that they did not mind and that they didn’t talk about it for several hours on the way home. And it won’t come up as like a, “Oh! Do you remember that time that she introduced herself as me? That was weird.”

00:58:21

Music

Music

“Mom Song” by Adira Amram. Mellow piano music with lyrics.

You are the greatest mom I’ve ever known.

I love you, I love you.

When I have a problem, I call you on the phone.

I love you, I love you.

[Music fades out.]

00:58:45

Promo

Clip

Music: Rock music plays in background. 

Speaker: This week on Maximum Fun’s pro wrestling podcast Tights and Fights, Austin Creed—best known as WWE’s Xavier Woods—tells us why his fans find him so easy to love.

Austin Creed: So I think it’s less me being good at it? And more people wanting to be a part of something. And it’s very easy to be a part of these things because I constantly am screaming about what I’m interested in.

Speaker: Austin Creed on the perfect wrestling podcast, Tights and Fights. Find it on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Music fades out.]

00:59:14

Promo

Clip

Music: Ragtime piano music plays in background.

[Sound of a gavel banging three times.]

John Hodgman: I’m Judge John Hodgman.

Jesse Thorn: And I’m Bailiff Jesse Thorn.

John: Ten years ago I came on Jordan, Jesse, Go! and judged my first dispute—is chili a soup?

Jesse: It’s a stew, obviously. The judge has dispensed a decade of justice. He’s the one person wise enough to answer the really important questions—like, should you hire a mime to perform at your own funeral?

Speaker 1: After they cry, I want them to laugh.

Jesse: Do you really need a tankful of jellyfish in your den?

Speaker 2: They smell like living creatures decaying.

Speaker 3: Only if they are decaying.

Speaker 2: Yeah, which they will be.

John: Real people, real justice, real comedy.

Jesse: Winner of the Webby Award for Best Comedy Podcast.

John: The Judge John Hodgman podcast, every Wednesday on MaximumFun.org!

[Music ceases, gavel bangs three times.] 

01:00:05

Biz

Host

Okay… the fire’s going. The stockings are hung. Somebody’s complaining and very upset somewhere, probably nearby. Or just disappointed. Which means… it’s time… for a mom to have a breakdown.

01:00:21

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

Hi! This is a rant or a breakdown. I tested positive for COVID yesterday. I’m fully vaccinated. I don’t go anywhere other than, y’know, outdoor events or work. We—my family and I, we wear masks all the time. I still tested positive. Which—y’know, I know. I get it. It happens. But nobody else in my family tested positive, so to keep them safe I have to stay away from them. And that sucks. Y’know. It’s coming up on Halloween, and they’re all downstairs, y’know, doing Halloween things. Painting pumpkins. Y’know, watching movies. And I can only participate through pictures or Facetime, which I can't even get through Facetime because I cry. It’s just… y’know. 

And honestly? I know that it’s fine because my symptoms are mild because I’m vaccinated. And the only reason that I went to get tested is just to be safe ‘cause I genuinely thought that I had a cold but I thought I should be responsible. And it turns out it wasn’t a cold. And I just… y’know, I just think of all the people who are not doing the right thing out there. And if I had been more of a jerk and just not gotten tested then I could still participate. And I’m not saying that that’s the right thing. Obviously, that was the wrong thing and obviously I did the right thing. But. It sucks that I can’t even be with my family right now, and I’m stuck in my bedroom for the next ten days, and I just… want to see my family! So… I just… I’m mad at everybody right now. Thanks for the show. You’re doing a great job.

01:02:24

Biz

Host

First of all, you’re doing a really good job. I—[sighs.] A couple of things. Just as we’re all listening—again, this is a Halloween call, but this is happening to people right now that happened during Thanksgiving. This is the situation for people during their holiday celebrations. Or really lots of different, important events. And… you are doing such a good job and I—I really, really hope you understand that your decision to get tested? While it resulted in a bunch of blech, y’know, things that you didn’t like, it really was the smart thing to do. So I just want to start with saying—thank you for getting tested, and thank you for taking the steps that you need to take. And now that we have said all of those things, let’s get into this.

Of course you’re pissed! Of course you wish you hadn’t taken that test! Of course you do! Of course! That’s totally natural and normal. Halloween is one of our favorite times. I can imagine on some level what it must be like to be missing—you almost kinda wish that it was—it was really knocking you out in bed. Not severe enough to have to go to the hospital, but enough to make it so that you just couldn’t even process that it was Halloween. Right? Just enough so that you could at least just not be like, “I feel good enough to be doing something with my—” 

That’s the other thing that gets you with this stupid COVID! Is if you have it, and it’s mild—and as my sister says, “Mild means you’re not in the hospital.” [Laughs.] Which I think is very accurate when it comes to COVID. It’s mild, there are lots of moments where you’re like, “Well, can I come out? Maybe everybody’s already infected! Maybe I’m not infectious anymore! Maybe I could just do one hug or one thing!” Right? Like… that is how our brains work. And it’s such a… okay. You have a cold. You freak out. It’s COVID. I’ve killed everybody. You have a cold and you go get tested and it turns out that it is COVID. You then are like, “Dammit, I wish I could have pretended like I didn’t have it and now I can’t see anybody or—” Like, your brain is always against you when you have COVID. 

And I just… it does feel unfair. It is actually unfair. It is a sad and hard place to have to sit on top of being sick. Which is also no fun. Mild cases of COVID still suck, guys. COVID is like… nasty. And it does not make you feel good. Oh! And then there’s the whole, “I’m vaccinated and I wear masks everyday.” Right? It’s still out there. There’s still always a risk. The vaccines are allowing us to have milder cases if we contract it. And I just—it sucks doing the right thing! Sometimes. And I’m just… I see you? That sucks? And you’re doing an amazing job taking care of you and your family, actually. So. You’re doing a really good job. 

01:06:06

Biz

Host

I don’t know about you guys, but this week’s episode was a little Christmas gift to myself. I really enjoyed talking with Paulina. And, y’know, I am so off of media and—I’m like, “What happened with Dr. Drew?” [Laughs.] So sorry if I stepped in it, but Paulina is authentic and a delight and I fucking love her. And I will say, again, that this book—it doesn’t have to be awkward. But it still is. And I highly recommend getting a copy of it. It doesn’t have to be awkward. So that you can start thinking about some of these things that you may want to have conversations with your kids or loved ones. Or—ugh—god, I hate it… even myself. [Groans.] Grow a little during this one, guys. 

This episode is coming out before Christmas. If you are a celebrator of Christmas, I hope you have a wonderful holiday. And if you are not a celebrator of Christmas, I hope people make mistakes and still give you presents. [Laughs.] Holidays are all about awkwardness. It’s all about being around people that we haven’t seen in a while, especially after this year. And I know that for many of us, holiday plans may be getting altered or cancelled because of the surge in the Omicron variant. I cannot believe these are words that are coming out of my mouth, everybody. Am I living in a sci-fi book? Yes, I am. 

I just want everyone to know that no matter where you find yourself this week, that you are amazing. You are remarkable. You are smart. You are pretty. [Laughs.] And any feelings you’re having around this time of year are valid. And I just want to let you know that next week—to ring in the New Year—Theresa is going to join me for a Genius Fail Spectacular. Talk about a gift! I’m so excited! You are all doing an amazing job, and I will talk to you next week. Bye!

01:08:35

Music

Music

“Mama Blues” by Cornbread Ted and the Butterbeans. Strumming acoustic guitar with harmonica and lyrics.

I got the lowdown momma blues

Got the the lowdown momma blues

Gots the lowdown momma blues

The lowdown momma blues. 

Gots the lowdown momma blues

Got the lowdown momma blues

You know that’s right.

[Music fades.]

01:09:00

Biz

Host

We’d like to thank MaxFun; our producer, Gabe Mara; our husbands, Stefan Lawrence and Jesse Thorn; our perfect children, who provide us with inspiration to say all these horrible things; and of course, you, our listeners. To find out more about the songs you heard on today’s podcast and more about the show, please go to MaximumFun.org/onebadmother. For information about live shows, our book and press, please check out OneBadMotherPodcast.com.

01:09:28

Theresa

Host

One Bad Mother is a member of the Maximum Fun family of podcasts. To support the show go to MaximumFun.org/donate.

[Music resumes for a while before fading out.]

01:09:52

Music

Transition

A cheerful ukulele chord.

01:09:53

Speaker 1

Guest

MaximumFun.org.

01:09:54

Speaker 2

Guest

Comedy and culture.

01:09:56

Speaker 3

Guest

Artist owned—

01:09:57

Speaker 4

Guest

—Audience supported.