TRANSCRIPT One Bad Mother Episode 433: Well, That’s Hilarious. with Jon Rineman

00:00:00

Biz Ellis

Host

Hi. I’m Biz.

00:00:01

Theresa Thorn

Host

And I’m Theresa.

00:00:02

Biz

Host

Due to the pandemic, we bring you One Bad Mother straight from our homes—including such interruptions as: children! Animal noises! And more! So let’s all get a little closer while we have to be so far apart. And remember—we are doing a good job.

00:00:20

Music

Music

“Summon the Rawk” by Kevin MacLeod. Driving electric guitar and heavy drums.

[Continues through dialogue.]

00:00:25

Biz

Host

This week on One Bad Mother—well, that’s hilarious! We talk comedy with Emerson’s Comedic Arts Professor Jon Rineman. Plus, Biz isn’t ready for the holidays. 

00:00:36

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz and caller: Woooo!

00:00:39

Caller

Caller

This is a check-in!

[Biz cheers.]

It’s Friday! Happy Friday! We have a little tradition in my house where after school on Friday—after school pickup—we come home, I make some popcorn, we watch a movie. It’s lovely. But today, I put the movie on for my kids. I started the popcorn, and I had to go to the bathroom. And I did that. And my children were screaming. Screaming like the world was ending. Because I was in the bathroom. And…

[Biz laughs.] 

That resolved with me screaming something about, uh, “I am allowed to pee! I am allowed to poop!” Like… not my finest moment. [Laughs.] Anyway. The popcorn is now popped and distributed and I’m gonna sit with my kids until they, y’know, yell for seconds on the popcorn.

[Biz laughs.] 

Anyway. Happy holidays. Buh-bye.

00:01:36

Biz

Host

[Singing] Happy holidays! Happy holidays! Happy holidays! Woo! Holidays! Hey! [Regular voice] Yeah. That—A, first of all, you’re doing a great job. I love this tradition that you have set up, because that sounds like something that—in theory—gives you a slight break where they get to focus on something else. So I like that. And I’ll watch movies. I don’t care what they are. I will sit and watch something with my kids. And… two, I am there with you with the “going to the bathroom and all hell breaks loose as if we have abandoned them on a sinking ship.” I—[Laughs.] I like, I myself have—and I think I’ve shared this on the show—screamed at the top of my lungs, “I AM USING THE BATHROOM!” But in my case, all the windows were open in the house. And I know for a fact that everybody heard me yelling that. And you’re right—doesn’t feel good. Doesn’t make you feel like a person or a Self in any way. And I like to imagine now that in houses all over the place, when I hear, like, a voice being raised? It’s just some parent yelling, “I’M USING THE BATHROOM!” [Laughs.] Even now—even, like, Ellis is officially eight. And Raiden, who is twelve—I go to them and I say, “Look me in the eyes. I’m going outside to get something from the garage.” Or, “Look me in the eyes. I am going to the bathroom. Where am I going to be?” “The bathroom.” “Where?” “The bathroom.” “Okay.” And then, like, a minute later, “Mama! Where are you?!” Like, “What did I tell you? What did I tell you? Where did I tell you I was going to be?” “I have no idea.” “What?” “I just—we just had the conversation.” So you are not alone. And it does make hashtag #HidingInTheBathroom very difficult. Very, very difficult. But you are doing a good job. Speaking of good jobs, it is time to say [singing] thank youuuu!

00:03:50

Music

Music

Heavy electric guitar and driving percussion overlaid with “Ohh, oh-oh, oh-oh” and “Hey-ey-ey-ey-ey-ey” lyrics.

00:04:04

Biz

Host

Well, let’s just get right to it! Thank you, medical professionals. I will never tire of thanking you. Be you intake nurses, be you… cleaning crews, be you the people who come and help people go into the bathroom that can’t or that help flip people or help change sheets and keep everything clean. Doctors. People giving vaccines. All of you. All of you are amazing. 

I would also like to thank people working in travel, especially right now during the holidays. It must be incredibly stressful for you. And I see you, and I appreciate not only the flight crews and people who work on the trains and people who drive buses. You are having to deal with people who might be unpleasant. And—[Laughs.] I’m really—I just see you and I appreciate you. And I appreciate the cleaning crews that go in and keep the planes, trains, and automobiles—as they were—clean. I appreciate you. All the people who work in airports, as well as in bus terminals and train terminals and car rental locations and all the places that we come in contact with during the holidays if we are traveling. Thank you for all that you are doing. 

Because it is a shitty time of year to be working in that—I waited tables for a million years and I bartended for a million years in one of my lives. And there’s several holidays I would work, no problem. I had no problem working—I would work Christmas Eve. Not a big deal. I would work Thanksgiving. Not a big deal. But I never wanted to work during the Alabama-Auburn college football game. Or New Year’s Eve. Because both of those would be the surliest, like, rudest, emotionally-sensitive, and very drunk evenings. And I just hated it. It was just so, “Ugghh!” It was the worst. So I just assume it’s that times a hundred. So I see you and thank you.

Thank you, teachers, and school staff and librarians. I—y’know. It’s coming! Teacher thank-you gift time! It’s the holidays! And I wish for you teachers things that you actually enjoy. Or just cash. I hope you just get some fucking cash. I hope you know how much we all appreciate you. Because… it’s the holidays. And everything’s gonna get extra nuts.

00:06:40

Biz

Host

Speaking of holidays, this is where I am. I’m not ready. I’m not ready for the holidays. We got through Thanksgiving, and that was fine. It was great. It was wonderful. But then we had Ellis’s birthday, so Ellis had a birthday and then we had a birthday party this weekend, which—by the way—will be definitely part of my fail. It was not, like… it wasn’t a rager, guys. It just was poorly—very poorly planned. But fun was had by all. And there was the—y’know, for people who are and know about me, there was the Southeastern Conference Champion Football Game in college where Alabama was playing. Yay! Roll tide! But that was also a lot of energy. 

And now I’m like, “Oh my god. For us, Christmas is coming.” And that—I’m not ready. I am not interested in it. I’m not ready for it. Stefan is playing Christmas music. I mean, at least we wait ‘til December 1^st in this house. But I literally like—every morning I wake up and he’s got Christmas music on. And I kinda hate it. Then, in the evening, he plays it as well. And I kinda hate it. And… I’m just like, “Ugh. I’m just not ready for the Christmas music.” So that’s—that’s the place that I’m in. It’s not very jolly. I’m not like, “Ehh! Fuck Christmas!” I’m just… not at all there. [Laughs.] Not even remotely interested in it at the moment. 

Also, Happy Hanukah. You’re done! You’re done by now! So good job getting through it! Also, y’know? Families are back and traveling. Aaah! I just—I’m just not ready for it. It’s also—now we have to be ready—many of us—for family being together. And last year, a lot of people got a break from families being together. And this year, people are gonna wanna family it up. There’s going to be a lot of things that aren’t funny, in terms of travel—like, let’s say you are from an area that loves masking? Loves masking and vaccinations! And now you’ve gotta travel to see someone who doesn’t! And you gotta make that call where it’s like, “Fine, you don’t have to wear one, but we’re all gonna wear one.” 

And to be honest—I have to tell you. This—I’m just gonna tell you—it should not be a big fucking deal if you choose to wear a mask. You are respecting their right to not wear one. And you are wearing one. Why is it always, then, the one who’s not wearing it seems to be the one who picks the fight first? “Whoa, why are you wearing those panties on your face?” Anyway, I don’t understand that. But I—[makes vomiting noise]. It will also be a time in which we will all discover that many of us have a different sense of humor—[Laughs.] From those we have gathered with. It’s also a time to wonder if anything’s funny. 

Which I think ties in nicely to what we’re gonna talk about today, which really is just comedy. We just have a big old comedy conversation with the Comedic Arts Professor of Emerson University, Jon Rineman. 

00:09:44

Music

Music

Banjo strums; cheerful banjo music continues through dialogue.

00:09:45

Theresa

Host

Please—take a moment to remember: If you’re friends of the hosts of One Bad Mother, you should assume that when we talk about other moms, we’re talking about you.

00:09:53

Biz

Host

If you are married to the host of One Bad Mother, we definitely are talking about you.

00:09:56

Theresa

Host

Nothing we say constitutes professional parenting advice.

00:09:59

Biz

Host

Biz and Theresa’s children are brilliant, lovely, and exceedingly extraordinary.

00:10:04

Theresa

Host

Nothing said on this podcast about them implies otherwise.

[Banjo music fades out.] 

[Biz and her guest repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss the weekly topic.]

00:10:09

Biz

Host

This week we are talking to Jon Rineman, who is a stand-up comedian and Comedic Arts Professor at Emerson College. He has written for WWE and was the head monologue writer for Late Night and The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon. He co-created the adult party card game, Anti-Social Skills, which you can purchase at—I hope I say this right—asskills.com.

00:10:32

Jon Rineman

Guest

You said it. [Laughs.] 

00:10:34

Biz

Host

Thank you! The Southern accent I think really helps with the pronunciation.

00:10:37

Jon

Guest

Of asskills.com. Yeah.

00:10:39

Biz

Host

Yeah! This spring, he is hoping to release Nine Lives, a book of short stories he began during lockdown. [Singing] Welcome, Jonnnn!

00:10:49

Jon

Guest

Thank you! Well you know what? I think I prayed—from the sounds of it, I might’ve prayed a little too hard for more time to finish that lockdown project. [Laughs.] 

[Biz laughs.] 

00:10:58

Biz

Host

I know! Don’t pray that hard! I know! I’m just like—

00:11:00

Jon

Guest

I’m like, “Man, I just need to find some way to sit down to finish this.” And then fate was like, “Oh, yeah? Here’s what is—omnicron, or whatever it is.” 

[Biz laughs.] 

00:11:08

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz: “Would you like a new variant?”

Jon: Like, great! 

00:11:10

Biz 

Host

Everybody remember when your kids are home from school—again—indefinitely—that it’s Jon’s fault.

[Jon laughs.] 

00:11:17

Jon

Guest

Yeah. Well hey! But you’ll have something you won’t have time to read, at least. So it’ll work out for everybody. Yeah.

[Both laugh.]

00:11:25

Biz

Host

Alright. Jon, before we get into this, I would love to get to know you and avoid some of the more traditional questions by asking you—who lives in your house? Make of that what you will.

00:11:34

Jon

Guest

Well, as I am often reminded where I am right now is not my house. It is—as my mom points out—it is her house.

[Biz laughs.] 

I’m right now up at my parents’ place in New Hampshire, where I’m finishing out teaching a semester at Emerson. My dad’s got some kind of—y’know, some health issues. And, y’know, so just spending some time with him when I can and help my mom out when I can. Not very good at it, but man, I try. 

00:12:02

Biz

Host

Good trying.

00:12:03

Jon

Guest

I’m a useless millennial. It’s always—the comeback is so—so tempting to just say, “Well who raised me?!” But… no. You just walk away.

[Biz laughs.] 

And you take the loss, ‘cause that’s what millennials do. And we say, “Well, I tried. And we got our trophy.” That’s all it is.

[Biz laughs.] 

00:12:21

Biz

Host

And there are children not with you in this house.

00:12:25

Jon

Guest

My daughter, Sadie, is here quite a bit. She loves New Hampshire. Well it’s so funny because like… up until I was kind of planning on right after the New Year, like, alright, so where do I go? Do I go back to Boston? Do I go back to New York? Like, what’s it gonna be? And now it’s kind of uncertain again. But one of the things that makes that tough is she loves New Hampshire and she loves Granny’s house and she loves going outside and, y’know, looking at the moon and—

00:12:50

Biz

Host

The things you don’t get to see in Boston and New York. [Laughs.] 

00:12:53

Jon

Guest

Well, yeah. She’s still—that’s how I got—she lives close to Boston with her mother. When she’s with her mom. And so the appeal of New Hampshire is that when we were looking and there was a deer outside, and it was up against—it was doing that thing where I don’t know if they’re giving a hoof manicure on the tree? You know that thing where they take their—scratch it for some reason? And—

[Biz laughs.] 

—so the deer’s up on the tree with the bark. And I go, “Oh, Sadie, look!” And I take her over. And she goes, “Whoa!” And we’re looking at the same thing, and I knew she needed more time in New Hampshire when she turned to me and she goes, “Is that a kangaroo?” And I said, “Okay. No. We need to—"

00:13:31

Biz

Host

Wow. What is your mother teaching you?! [Laughs.] 

00:13:34

Jon

Guest

Yeah, “We’re gonna visit Granny a little bit more often so you get to see—” I was like, “It’s a deer!” She’s like—

00:13:40

Biz

Host

Here’s a question. How old is she? 22? [Laughs.] 

[Jon laughs.] 

00:13:45

Jon

Guest

Yeah, and weed is legal here, so yeah. It definitely—no. She’s four-and-a-half. She was four—about four at the time. But yeah. No. She just really likes being outdoors and doing all that sort of stuff. And yeah. She’s one of those people that—I took her up to the Polar Caves, which is this state park in New Hampshire which is just what it sounds like. It’s a bunch of caves you go through.

[Biz laughs.] 

And you’re not gonna believe this—when you’re in your thirties, it’s somehow harder than it was when you were six or seven. It’s—yeah. It’s weird. You’re in better shape to do this thing. And so she was going right through it like American Gladiators, and… yeah. I was… just kind of, um, sort of barely making it through. [Laughs.] 

00:14:27

Biz

Host

Keeping it—

00:14:29

Jon

Guest

Yeah. I was pretty close to just giving her the keys and being like—

00:14:31

Biz

Host

Yeah. “Meet me in the car.”

00:14:33

Jon

Guest

No, “If you need to take off, I get it. And just tell them where I am and they’ll come get my stuff.”

[Biz laughs.] 

00:14:39

Biz

Host

“Just circle back. Circle back.” [Laughs.] 

00:14:41

Jon

Guest

Yeah. So she’s four-and-a-half, and she’s a delight. 

00:14:46

Biz

Host

Oh! Well that’s nice! I’m gonna pick through all of that to determine that you are in a shared custody situation. So… do you mind telling me how much time do you get with her? I mean, you don’t have to go into the whole document. But like—[Laughs.] 

[Jon laughs.] 

I don’t need all the details.

00:15:06

Jon

Guest

No, I mean, I see her… I see her Friday through Sunday. It just happened to work out—or not work out, either way you look at it—that I was raised Catholic and my ex was raised Jewish and so we have different holidays.

00:15:20

Biz

Host

Oh! Boom!

00:15:21

Jon

Guest

Yeah! So it’s just like there’s no problem there, where it’s just kind of, y’know. It’s like Hanukah/Passover over there and Christmas/Easter with me. Y’know. And then we kinda alternate New Year’s and Thanksgiving and—but as a stand-up, that kinda works out ‘cause it’s like, y’know, a bit night for stand-up is the Friday after Thanksgiving and then a big night for stand-up is New Year’s Eve, so it’s kind of like, y’know, you adjust either way. And so this year I’m doing New Year’s Eve shows and then probably next year I’ll do the Friday and that’s kinda how it works out. And y’know. There hasn’t been much challenge yet ‘cause, y’know, we—it was official during the COVID, and so been in the same area ‘cause I’ve been working in Boston. And even before that I was in Connecticut, at WWE, so there hasn’t been a whole lot of, like, territorial stuff. But, y’know, we’ll see. It’s kinda just kind of… playing it by ear. But.

00:16:13

Biz

Host

It's actually kinda crazy. I—one of the things in talking to people I get to understand that all kinds of shit’s happening in the world. That I just am like, “Oh! I never thought about that.” For example, when babies see you putting on a mask, they’re like, “We get to go out!” It used to be keys. Right? And now they’re like, “Oh! I get to go out!”

[Jon laughs.] 

And a lot of people born—a lot of kids, like, never been in a school until now. Right? Like, it’s—all this crazy shit! But the notion of having a divorce finalized during COVID… is that correct? And then the world comes back into—and everything’s on paper. “Yeah, this is great.” And then the world reopens and it’s like trying to go back to work or go back to school on steroids. It’s like—

[Jon laughs.] 

“Yeah, we said this was gonna be great, but this is all shut down and—” Y’know, like—[Laughs.] 

00:17:07

Jon

Guest

Well the funny thing is—my ex and I met in 200…9. It was right before I got hired at Fallon, and we met at a Beach Boys concert in Boston at the Hatch Shell. And so we were in the sea of almost half a million—well, Hatch Shell—which is way overbooked for the Beach Boys. And then we happened to sit next to each other. So that was the nice story for all those years was that, like, y’know, “Oh, god out of all those thousands of people we were next to each other,” and that’s my favorite band from when I was a kid. And then when we actually had our divorce, it was on Zoom.

00:17:41

Biz

Host

That’s—so…

00:17:43

Jon

Guest

And so it’s sort of a—

00:17:44

Biz

Host

—crazy!

00:17:45

Jon

Guest

Is that weird? 

[Biz laughs.] 

And so it’s like we met—we met in a sea of half—450,000 people. And then we—we divorced in a Zoom chat of four or five people. And I always joke to people that—so it’s like we met in front of thousands and then we divorced online, which is the Boston reverse relationship. ‘Cause in Boston, you meet online and then you fight and break up in front of thousands of people at the Fourth of July or something. Like, “That’s it!” Y’know. “I’m done with you, Susan!” And then that’s it. We had the opposite. Yeah. 

00:18:24

Biz

Host

No one can leave and no one can leave a Zoom without it being awkward? Like, “Where is the button? I can’t—” Like, that’s super—

00:18:29

Jon

Guest

Yeah. It was this weird thing. So yeah. 

00:18:33

Biz

Host

That—you are a Comedic Arts Professor at Emerson. And you’re not the first Emerson person we’ve had on. Guys, I live a regret-free life—except I didn’t take the acceptance to Emerson a million years ago. 

00:18:46

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Jon: You got accepted and you didn’t go?!

Biz: I went—oh, we’re not even gonna go into the like—

00:18:49

Biz

Host

Then eight years of three different colleges, dropping out, quitting—I coulda just gone to fucking Emerson and been done with it. But! So I love Emerson. It has a special place in my heart. But as a person who not only does stand-up and has written comedy and teaches comedy—I actually—the notion of the “too soon” question? So, y’know, I was in New York doing stand-up when September 11^th happened. In fact, my sketch group was supposed to do a show the next night. Like, our first show.

00:19:26

Jon

Guest

Oh my gosh. 

00:19:27

Biz

Host

And that was—we did not do it. FYI. But it was really interesting. It was such an interesting—

[Jon laughs.] 

—time. All the comedians—[Laughs.] 

00:19:35

Jon

Guest

“We need a suggestion!” “Stop!”

00:19:38

Biz

Host

“I got it! Whee!” Anyway. [Laughs.] 

00:19:40

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Jon: “Thank you for coming, Mr. Mayor.” Okay, good.

Biz: Don’t do it! [Laughs.] 

00:19:43

Jon 

Guest

“Where’s my car?” “Okay, it’s right over here, Rudy.” “I’m already weird! Nobody realizes yet!” “Okay, that’s fine.”

00:19:48

Biz

Host

So—but like, we would go… like, all of our friends were stand-ups, and it was really… interesting to see just how everything sort of stopped. And then the process of working through that tragedy through stand-up. Like, going and seeing friends do stand-up where they’re really—for a long time, a lot of people were like, “I can’t do anything. There’s nothing fucking funny right now. I can’t find a single joke or anything.” And then came the process of trying to get back up, because it’s a muscle and then watching and supporting people as they tried to do that. I think humor’s so good at helping people work through stuff. So I’m thinking about the pandemic. I’m thinking about COVID. From your view—y’know, as a professor, in your experience, what—what has the impact of the pandemic been on comedy? Is that even a question that’s answerable? [Laughs.] 

00:20:49

Jon

Guest

Well… I think—I think that for comedians, I think that for people who are out and doing stand-up, well here’s what I’ll say we’re starting to notice. Is that when it first came back, I was skeptical. And I did not initially plan on coming back. I had not missed it at all during lockdown. Y’know. I wasn’t particularly enthralled with the idea of—

00:21:14

Biz

Host

Sharing a mic? [Laughs.] 

00:21:15

Jon

Guest

—doing stand-up as a—well, no. But I mean, just—just telling jokes as a—like, as a totally different person now. Y’know. I was used to all those years of kind of being like—y’know, when you write yourself in a corner, you have writer’s block, or things aren’t working, whatever. You can always fall back on “Oh, I’m the dumb guy in a relationship and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” And I didn’t have that anymore! And so I didn’t know really who I was. And so—but I had been writing during lockdown. I’d been trying to write these short stories and—which are—it’s like… made-up stories about real people? So it’s little things like if—that awful joke about, like, “Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?” And so my story is, “What if she answered?”

[Biz laughs.] 

And had a really detailed review of the play? And so—and she’s just vicious! 

00:22:03

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz: It’s been enough time. It’s been enough time for that to be funny.

Jon: And so like it was that sort of stuff. Yeah. 

00:22:06

Jon 

Guest

But on the spot, she’s like—she’s like, “Well this person was chewing scenery.” So it’s like, y’know. So I did a bunch of those and then I just, y’know, wrote some news jokes on days when I was just waiting on other stuff just to kind of feel—‘cause, y’know, I still love joke writing and I still love the idea of monologue writing. It would be great to go back to that someday, some way. But I think that I did have enough written. I said, “Oh, I do have some jokes.” And—well, and then I had a friend in Tennessee who said, “Do you wanna come do my club?” And I figured, “Well, y’know… I’m gonna go out and bomb, might as well bomb in Tennessee. No one’s gonna know me there.” But I didn’t. It went great. And every show went better than the next, the whole weekend. And then I kinda started—y’know, it’s that thing for social media. Bookers see you on—they’re like, “Hey! I saw you did that. Do you wanna—” And then a month in, you’re like, “Oh, no, I’m doing stand-up again.” 

[Biz laughs.] 

[Laughs.] Y’know? Like and you’re like, “Aagh! I successfully quit finally! No one needs me doing this, and I don’t—” and you’re just like, “Okay.” It was this great boom where just everything was working. If you just had some—y’know, I wrote this whole bit about the murder hornets, of all things. And it was such a weird, hard-to-follow bit, but it was killing! And it was because audiences were just thrilled to be out and everyone was hanging on every word. Everyone was listening. And I was like—we kinda—we were looking at each other, and then some people—everyone was like, “Man, this is like feeling like early 2000s or like the ‘80s. This is like the boom again where it’s like everything’s—stand-up’s hot!” And then I kinda said, I was like—

[Biz laughs.] 

“Well, there will be a market correction at some point where audiences become audiences again. And people do start looking at their phones and people do start sort of calming down.” And they’re like, ”Well, I’ve been out four nights this week. This isn’t that big of a deal.” And I do think we’re kinda getting there. I’ve—I’ve been on a couple shows lately where there were new bits that never happened just ‘cause I was like, “Eh, not with these people.” And so I think we’re kinda there and I—but long story short, it’s been fun for us. Now. On the other hand, for students, I think a lot of people underestimated how difficult it would be—particularly for college students and for Gen Z. I think everyone has this preconceived notion of them and they look at them and kinda think of them as kind of just being isolated anyway. Kinda think of them as, y’know, “They’re always on their phones. They’re always on Netflix or whatever. And their Instagram.” And I kinda wondered about that, too. I thought they would thrive. And they did not. And it’s just—you remember that these are people who are not yet 22 years old. Y’know? They’re all, like, 20, 21. First of all, this is a shock for them. They did not go through 9/11. They weren’t even here for O.J., y’know?

[Biz laughs.] 

So they don’t know—they weren’t here for any—Clinton or any of that stuff. 

00:24:59

Biz

Host

This is their first—

00:25:00

Jon

Guest

So this is like their first. 

00:25:02

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Jon: And then even Trump—

Biz: I was gonna say—it did come after Trump.

00:25:04

Jon 

Guest

Yes, but for them… but for them, they weren’t impacted, a lot of them. A lot of—y’know, it’s still—we live in a country where at a lot of liberal arts colleges, they’re creative people and so that either—you’re either born into privilege or you earned privilege through being a good performer and being funny and outgoing. And so even the Trump stuff, to them, they knew he’d be gone by the time they were really paying taxes and everything. And so—or really had to make decisions. And so they were kinda just really—as they should’ve been—laughing at the rest of us for, “This is what you guys did. Ha, ha. Screw you for the next four years.” And then—but I think that they were really rattled. And I think that it’s continued into this year, in a way that I think has been surprising to many people. And that even though there aren’t as many restrictions and even though you can go to the dining hall again and even though you can go out, I do think a lot of these students are feeling the residual effects of the psychological challenges of last year. And I think there’s some kids that are either toughed it out last year and are just fried right now and are really just trying to figure out how to make it through, and then I think there’s other kids that took a gap year and they admitted they were rusty. They were coming back and they were like, “I’m struggling hitting deadlines and getting crews together.”

00:26:26

Biz 

Host

Well you also have kids who… weren’t in college before! Like, y’know, you’ve got freshman who are coming in as sophomores now and didn’t have a freshman year and I just—the notion that anybody is coming out of the last year and a half… like… completely 100% is… is such a false narrative. It’s completely—and I think in particular, any kid—I mean, kids are, y’know 25 and under ‘cause I’m old. But when it comes to… humor… not only over the last couple of years has there been the pandemic, which is really not funny. There’s been a lot of political upheaval. There’s been a lot of… what people love to, like, big news shows and all that like to talk about when it comes to—I don’t like the phrase “political correctness.” I’m not sure I’m a big fan ‘cause I feel like that’s very sweeping and generalizing. But there has been a lot of—“No, that’s not—that’s not funny anymore.” And to be fair, there are lots of things that—that aren’t—that we probably—I always would describe it as, “You gotta work harder for the joke. If it was an easy joke and it’s pissing half the people off, then you’re not trying hard. You need to make it a better joke.” Right? So that’s my question! So given all the things—and I think generationally this can happen over and over? It’s not like this is the first time people have come along and said, “Don’t do those kind of jokes” or whatever. But as a teacher… how do you… I mean, are these—do these kids have a sense of humor anymore? Do they feel comfortable being funny? Do you see these influences affecting—

00:28:16

Jon

Guest

Here’s what I’ll say. I think that Gen Z—first of all, Gen Z is super talented. So everyone out there that’s like… y’know, I see some people right now that I expect a lot, and they’re trying to go to work on Gen Z and I’m like, “I would not do that if I were you.” I’m like, “Because they are inherently more talented than our generation? They’ve—” They are! Because they’ve had technology and they’ve learned how to use it and they know how to do Instagram and TikTok and programming and all that stuff better than we do. And they’re self—they’re all creators, whether they wanna be or not they’ve learned how to do that in high school whether or not that’s what they wanna do. And they’re also very… curious and there’s this kinda quest for knowledge on their part. And so they really do, y’know, instead of brushing away news stories from ten, twenty years ago, they’ll go right to Wikipedia and then they’ll go down a rabbit hole of every single article about it and that’s all they’ll wanna talk about. And so something as vague as, like, Heaven’s Gate—that cult from 1997—that was a big obsession at Emerson last year. There was a documentary about it and a lot of my students were into it. And I was like, that’s—it’s a dark analogy, but when I was a kid I didn’t know about Jonestown. I didn’t know what that was. So it’s like, they’re better than us and they’re gonna be bigger and better and smarter and funnier. And they’ve already learned—they’re growing up in an era of going for the better joke.

00:29:41

Biz

Host

Yeah! No, that’s true!

00:29:42

Jon

Guest

They have never had to—yeah! So they’re constantly always trying—they’re very competitive. And so—I’ll just say it. Like, when I see like Dave Chappelle go to his high school and make fun of those kids? Okay, Dave maybe can get away with it. But all those—y’know, the Dave groupies that are, y’know, that pile on with those kids? I’m like, “Who do you think you’re gonna be pitching to in five years? It’s gonna be one of those kids!” Like, if you go to an executive, you go to pitch somewhere—

[Biz laughs.] 

—the first line of defense for that production company is going to be somebody who’s like 28 years old and they’re probably gonna be smarter than you ‘cause they’re gonna know the market better, and if you come in there as someone who has a mocking attitude towards them, your meeting’s not gonna last five minutes and if it does, they’re just gonna use it to listen to you and make fun of you later. So it’s like…

00:30:31

Biz

Host

Well, but it’s true that when you say, “Well maybe Dave Chappelle can get away with it,” y’know, I do think… just as trying to write the better joke, you’ve gotta be keenly aware of if you can get away with that joke. Are you the type of person who can tell that joke? 

00:30:50

Jon

Guest

But I think that’s the thing is that… y’know, that’s a thing—that’s a misnomer, too, in my opinion. The “who can tell this joke” thing? It’s like, in my opinion, if it’s a—and again, I’m just joke writer and a teacher.

00:31:02

Crosstalk

Crosstalk

Biz: “I just teach comedy for a living.”’

Jon: And so that’s always what I reframe it was.

00:31:04

Biz 

Host

“It’s okay. I have very little invested.” Yeah.

[Jon laughs.] 

00:31:07

Jon 

Guest

Hey, that doesn’t mean I’m right! But I’m just saying that from what I’ve seen, any great joke, there’s a way of everyone doing it? It’s just the way you frame it and the way you deliver it. And the great example of that is, so many of these people who are the anti-cancel-culture supposed comics that are coming forward with—and especially people on the right side of the spectrum—and posting clips about George Carlin? Like, “See, George—he’d think you guys were all wimps!” I’m like, “Have you listened to George Carlin? Because I’m sorry! Because I’m sorry. The two—top two comedians of that period and then most people still have them number one are Carlin and Pryor.” And there’s a lot of overlap there, but it’s just—they said it differently. And so you get two jokes out of it. But they’re saying kind of the same thing. And Carlin’s bit about the big club, that, y’know, it’s that they’re all in the same big club and you and me aren’t in it? It’s like… that, to me, is like—I’m like, “That’s such a great way of doing it.” And he really—but he goes to the effort of, “I’m going to explain to you why you think you’re all privileged but you’re not.”

00:32:13

Biz

Host

I certainly remember running into a lot of comedians who did not understand that there was a lot of work, effort, and self-reflection in their work. I made my buddies in my basement laugh when we were all drunk and stoned and now I’m gonna get on stage and do it. And just like—clearly deserve all the accolades. Right? Which is like always, y’know, 70% of who you have to do stand-up with. Right? But then the reason Carlin and Pryor and the reason you’re saying that people could share—tell the same joke, but differently—to know when it’s you who needs to put it off on yourself; to know when you go aggressively—that takes a great deal of consideration? And self-awareness? Y’know, in my opinion, I think that that is something people… do not give a lot of credit to comedians for. I mean, obviously you want it to look effortless, but—

00:33:08

Jon

Guest

Well what I see a lot of is comics getting frustrated with stuff not working. And like, “Look. If the audience is—” If you’re like, “I don’t get why people don’t like this; it’s been working all the time when I’ve been opening for Rogan down in Austin,” that’s that audience!

[Biz laughs.] 

And then there’s other—and then there’s other people! Who are like—

00:33:27

Biz

Host

“Why don’t those women think I’m funny at the NOW Convention?” [Laughs.] 

00:33:31

Jon

Guest

No. Everyone—yeah. “Everyone cracked up here at the set of Fox & Friends, but no one liked me when I went out on the side—” It’s like, the comics accusing everyone of being soft—I’m like, “Hold on a second. Aren’t you the one that went on a Twitter diatribe about how you’re mad that someone didn’t laugh at your joke?”

00:33:51

Biz

Host

Well also, after a year and a half of being in, we are all stuck in our little corners.

00:33:57

Jon

Guest

Are you in with high school kids right now?

[Biz laughs.] 

Who are—by the way—beating you in the argument? So funny. There’s so many comedians becoming who they once mocked. And I’m not—y’know, I don’t want to totally—but I mean, there’s people in mainstream comedy right now who are not getting great reviews and not getting great ratings and still kinda lecturing. And I’m like, “You are who you made fun of ten years ago.” 

[Biz laughs.] 

00:34:21

Biz

Host

And that’s what we’ll link everybody up to, is Jon Rineman’s Video Spectacular: You Have Just Become Who You Used To Make Fun Of. Jon, thank you so much for joining us, and… glad to know that you’re out there working with these different kids wanting to come up in comedy. It’s good to know things are still funny. [Laughs.] 

00:34:42

Jon

Guest

Well hopefully I’m doing my best. 

00:34:44

Biz

Host

And if not, remember—just like we said at the beginning of the show—

[Jon laughs.] 

—we’ll all blame Jon. We’ll make sure—[Laughs.] 

00:34:49

Jon

Guest

Sure! I’m used to it. I’ve been—yeah, oh, believe me. I’m used to getting blamed. Yeah.

00:34:54

Biz

Host

Thank you.

00:34:55

Jon

Host

Thank you very much, Biz.

00:34:56

Music

Music

“Ones and Zeroes” by “Awesome.” Steady, driving electric guitar with drum and woodwinds.

[Music fades out.]

00:35:13

Music

Promo

Laid-back ukulele with whistling plays in background.

00:35:14

Biz

Promo

One Bad Mother is supported in part by Storyworth. This holiday season, give your loved ones a gift that makes them feel special and unique: give them Storyworth! I’ve talked about Storyworth, guys. Every week, Storyworth emails your relative or friend a thought-provoking question of your choice. They can be anything from “What’s the bravest thing you’ve ever done in your life?” You can also ask things like, “What’s the thing that you hid from your parents?” Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. And then after a year, Storyworth takes all of their answers and compiles it into one beautiful keepsake book. You could even get Storyworth for different members of your family and then ask them all the same questions! And see if they remember things the same way! I love it! With Storyworth, you’re giving a thoughtful, personal gift from the heart and preserving their memories and stories for years to come. Go to Storyworth.com/badmother and save $10 on your first purchase. That’s Storyworth.com/badmother to save $10 on your first purchase.

[Music fades out.]

00:36:20

Music

Promo

Inspirational keyboard music plays in background.

00:36:21

Biz

Promo

One Bad Mother is supported in part by Billie. The seasons may be changing, but your self-care routine shouldn’t have to! [Singing] Freshly-shaved skiiiin! [Regular voice] Feels great in any weather, especially slipping into gooshy pants! That’s what we call ‘em in our house. Gooshy pants. Billie is designed to be the best razor for women at half the price you’d expect. I… really enjoy using my Billie. And—it really does, in fact, feel good sliding into gooshy pants! Don’t suffer another second paying a pink tax for a bad shave. Go to MyBillie.com/mother to get the best razor you will ever own while supporting this show. Billie is half the price of other razors, plus free shipping always. Just go to MyBillie.com/mother. Spelled MyB-I-L-L-I-E.com/mother. That’s MyBillie.com/mother.

[Music fades out.]

00:37:15

Theresa

Host

Hey, you know what it’s time for! This week’s genius and fails! This is the part of the show where we share our genius moment of the week, as well as our failures, and feel better about ourselves by hearing yours. You can share some of your own by calling 206-350-9485. That’s 206-350-9485.

00:37:35

Biz

Host

Genius fail time. Genius me, me!

00:37:39

Clip

Clip

[Dramatic, swelling music in background.]

Biz: Wow! Oh my God! Oh my God! I saw what you did! Oh my God! I’m paying attention! Wow! You, mom, are a genius. Oh my God, that’s fucking genius!

00:37:52

Biz

Host

Okay! Alright. Oh, such a good story! I’m so excited. Okay. I’m gonna try and keep it short. So—as many of you know—because I talk about everything on this show—Raiden has to have some adult teeth pulled. In regards to the orthodontics. We have a tiny little mouth and giant teeth. [Through laughter] And we’ve been putting it off for a while. I… finally get an appointment for us to see the oral surgeon who’s recommended by my orthodontist. We go in. And, like, immediately… I’m a little put off, because [through laughter] we get into the room, we’re gonna be sitting—the chair—the chair that you sit in, the exam chair—is like from 1960. And I say, “Huh,” to the nurse who’s coming in with us. “Huh. That’s a… that a old chair. Uh… that’s interesting.” And the nurse is like, “Well, we did install a whole series of top-of-the-line new chairs, but the team just didn’t wanna adjust to how it worked.” And I’m like, “Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding!” I’m like—[Laughs.] Then—so Raiden sits in the chair and I sit over on the side. And then in comes another woman who seems very familiar with what everything is happening. They’re like very, like, “Hello, Raiden!” And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and like touching Raiden and saying hi to me. But no one’s introduced themselves. So I say, “Oh! Are you Dr. So-and-So?” And she goes [Through laughter] “Ha ha! No! No!” And I was like, “Alright, that’s weird.” And then in comes a man who also didn’t introduce himself. Just kinda came in and started looking at files and stuff. So I say, after a nice pause, “Are you Dr. So-and-So?” “Yes.” And then the woman who I had asked first says, [giggling] “They thought I was the doctor! Isn’t that funny! Oh, well I guess that more women are starting to be doctors.” And I thought, “Where are we? What are we—is this chair indicative of a time change? Like a time travel? Have we gone through some sort of portal?” Alright. Now—I have already made this not a short story. Okay. Basically… this doctor is horrible. They don’t explain anything. They just sort of jump right to, “Well, we’re gonna just pull those teeth out. It’ll be easy.” And I’m like, “Aack!” Look, I have been to consultations. Okay? This is not a consultation. So I start asking questions to kind of prompt him to give the information that I feel Raiden needs to hear and I would like to hear. I want to make him do the song and dance. And this is what I’m gonna—I’m just gonna put it this way. Many of you will understand when I say this. But… he… spoke to me like I was just a woman. And I—like, in the worst of ways. He spoke in such a condescending and defensive tone that—I mean, it was shocking. It was shocking. And I hated it. But I’m, “Aahhh.” And when we finally get to the end of this, he’s like, “So, we’ll make an appointment and see you.” And Raiden says, “I would like to speak to my mother in private.” And his face got very twisted. And I was like, “Of course you can speak to me in private.” And I stand up and I look at him and then he takes a lot of time leaving the room, which was annoying. And I walk up to Raiden and I hold Raiden’s hand and we look into each other’s eyes and Raiden says, “I do not—” and before they can finish it, I said, “I’m not letting that person anywhere near you. We are never coming back here. This man is certainly not going to do your tooth removal!” And we, y’know, I said, “But I’m gonna smile my way out of here. Okay? And then we’re gonna get in the car.” Right? And Raiden was like, “Okay.” And I was like, “Okay.” And then we got in the car and I was like, “Raiden, I wanna be very clear with you. That person… was an asshole.” [Laughs.] And Raiden was like, “Yes they were!” Anyway, my genius is… I… I have no I—I—I would like this to reflect upon our parenting, but I just was so proud? Of Raiden advocating for themselves and asking to speak to me privately, as well as… proud of Raiden for recognizing that what was happening in that room? Was not a good fit for us. So I’m counting that as a genius somehow. I… I don’t know, but I love my kid. [Laughs.] And everybody, there are lots of doctors out there who do lots of procedures. If you get to one that you don’t like, there’s another one that you will like. Okay! That’s it.

00:43:04

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

This is a holiday reminder genius.

[Biz laughs.] 

That came to me as I was wrapping up my kids’ presents. If you are giving a present to a young kid, take it out of the packaging before you wrap it. Because the two-year-old does not care at all about the cool box that his dump truck came in, but he will have a tantrum if he cannot get to his dump truck right now. And the last thing you need in the middle of a family holiday celebration—which is already high stress—is a small child melting down while you try to cut the thirty-seven tiny plastic tab things with your keys. 

[Biz laughs.] 

When you got your wrapping stuff out, you’ve already got your scissors—cut it out of the packaging. Throw away the boxes. The boxes just have ads for more toys on them half the time. And put batteries in. Or—I don’t know—even better, take the batteries out of the toys, tape over the speakers so they’re not so loud. Everything you need to get it ready to be instantly played with after opening. And I’ve done this for years and this has always made my mornings a little bit smoother. That’s it! Y’all are doing a great job. 

00:44:16

Biz

Host

So are you. This is a wonderful holiday reminder. Because it’s definitely a genius we’ve talked about before on the show. Because it’s important. It makes life so much easier. Not only the batteries—glad you mentioned the batteries, because good god. Even if you have batteries set aside, you still gotta get a little screwdriver out and unscrew everything and you gotta put everything on the thing and then you gotta re-screw it back and they’re like, “Gimme, gimme, gimme!” And other kids are like, “Can I open my other presents?!” And you’re just like, “Ah!” So going ahead and getting the batteries in there and cutting all those little—even if you wanna leave it in the box, you can still free it from the binds that hold it. And get batteries in it. And then kinda shimmy it back in with a little tape. You’re doing a great job and this is a wonderful reminder. Thank you. Failures!

00:45:08

Clip

Clip

[Dramatic orchestral music plays in the background.]

Theresa: [In a voice akin to the Wicked Witch of the West] Fail. Fail. Fail. FAIL!

[Timpani with foot pedal engaged for humorous effect.]

Biz: [Calmly] You suck!

00:45:14

Biz

Host

Fail me, me. Okay! Ellis had a little birthday party on Saturday. And it was like… three friends. And—which is very manageable. And all outdoors at our house. Which is—[Laughs.] Just a barren wasteland of cardboard boxes and cinderblocks, because that’s how we like to decorate outside. We like to start projects and then never finish them. So we’ve got all these things planned that they wanna do. The really—I just wanna get to the fail, which is… the party started at 12, and in the little email I sent out I said, “Y’know, there’s gonna be some food. There’ll be like some bagels and, y’know. Cucumbers.” Like, food-food. Right? I wanted until the day of the party to go get everything that we needed to get. I realized while I was all the way across town where the party supply was to get a pinata at the very last minute that I didn’t bring any of my cards. All I could pay with is my phone. Right? And so… I had to puzzle together different targets to try and find food and—no food. No food. All the bagels were rock-hard. Gross. And I was like, “What else do kids eat? I don’t know. Nothing.” And so—[Laughs.] These four kids showed up at 12, and they got Cherry Coke—with the approval of all of their parents, ‘cause Ellis wanted something special. A lot of candy. Like a crazy amount of candy, guys. One kid was just wandering around with a ring pop hanging out of their mouth. Right? Like they were at a rave. And then popcorn and potato chips. And… that is what the—I just—nothing good probably came of that when they got home? Because it was just on whatever empty stomach they had. But—yeah. That felt like—[Laughs.] Just like a shitty table, guys, with some water. On the table. ‘Cause I didn’t buy anything else! Anyway. Oh well! Oh… well.

00:47:22

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

Hi. I’m calling with a fail. It’s a super dumb fail. So I have a three-year-old and you have to drink those, like, Breakfast Essentials, according to his pediatrician. It’s basically chocolate milk. So we talk a lot about chocolate milk in this house. Chocolate milk, chocolate milk, chocolate milk. And I kinda stick with him always drinking chocolate milk. And so one day I got out the regular milk and I poured him a cup. And they said, “I don’t want that. I want chocolate milk.” And I said, “It is chocolate milk. It’s just white chocolate milk. The other one’s brown chocolate milk.” And so then we kind of have a little saying where we were, y’know, “This is the white chocolate milk and the brown chocolate milk.” But the fail is that now? He will ask me for chocolate milk and then I’ll get out the brown chocolate milk and pour him a cup and then he gets mad that I gave him the wrong chocolate milk. He wanted the white chocolate milk, not the brown chocolate milk. And really, it’s not chocolate milk. It’s just milk.

[Biz laughs.] 

And I made up this lie. And now I’m getting yelled at [through laughter] for giving him the not-chocolate milk chocolate milk. So I suck. Don’t lie to your kids, guys!

[Biz laughs.] 

Anyway. Thanks for the hotline.

00:48:37

Biz

Host

I… love this fail. First of all, let’s all honestly say how genius it was to call milk “white chocolate milk.” I think that’s motherfucking genius, ‘cause my children don’t drink milk. For whatever reason, the day it came out of the bottle and was in a cup, they were like, “We don’t want this.” And if only I had told them it was chocolate milk! I would have been happy to deal with the fallout if they just still drank the milk. So there is the genius in your fail sandwich. Now… yes. The lies—I actually think it’s fine to lie to your children, especially in situations like this. But it always will come back. There will always be a fallout. Whether the fallout is being completely called out on the lie and then being very mad at you for lying, or the situation that we have here in which they wanna live the lie. They wanna live the lie forever and it just becomes annoying for you. So… I am sorry that you are such a good liar. You’re doing a horrible job telling the truth. [Laughs.] 

00:49:54

Music

Music

“Mom Song” by Adira Amram. Mellow piano music with lyrics.

You are the greatest mom I’ve ever known.

I love you, I love you.

When I have a problem, I call you on the phone.

I love you, I love you.

[Music fades out.]

00:50:17

Promo

Clip

Music: Pleasant, gentle ukulele.

Jo Firestone: Well, Manolo, we have a show to promote. It’s called Dr. Gameshow.

Manolo Moreno: It’s a family friendly podcast where listeners submit games, and we play them with callers from around the world.

Jo: Oh! Sounds good! New episodes, uh, happen every other Wednesday on MaximumFun.org!

Manolo: It’s a—it’s a fast and loose oasis of absurd innocence and naivete and—

Jo: Are you writing a poem?

Manolo: Nooo. I’m just saying things from my memory. And, uh, it’s a nice break from reality. [Chuckles.] Is that—? Are we allowed to say that?

Jo: I don’t know. It sounds bad.

Manolo: It comes with a 100% happiness guarantee.

Jo: [Interrupting.] It does not.

[Manolo chuckles.]

Jo: Come for the games and stay for the chaos.

[Music ends.]

00:51:02

Promo

Clip

Music: Cheerful, “Linus and Lucy”-style piano music plays in background. 

Jackie Kashian: I’m going first! It’s me, Jackie Kashian! 

Laurie Kilmartin: Man! She’s always this bossy! 

[All laugh.]

Laurie: Hi. I’m Laurie Kilmartin. We’re a bunch of standup comics and we’ve been doing comedy like sixty years total.

[Jackie laughs.]

Jackie: Both of us. But we look amazing. And—

[Kyle laughs.]

Jackie: It’s all working out. We drop every Monday on MaxFun and it’s called The Jackie and Laurie Show. And you could listen to it and learn about comedy and learn about anger management and all the things. 

Laurie: And Jackie is married but childless and I’m unmarried but child-full. So together—

[Jackie laughs.]

Laurie: —we make—

Jackie and Laurie: —one complete woman.

Kyle: [Through laughter] Is that just how it’s gonna end? [Laughs.] 

Jackie: Yeah! Yeah! And we try to make Kyle laugh just like that and say “Oh my god” every episode.

Kyle: It’s a good job. Jackie and Laurie Show. Mondays, only on Maximum Fun. 

[Music ends.]

00:51:53

Biz

Host

Okay. It’s time… to listen… to a mom have a breakdown. 

00:51:59

Caller

Caller

[Answering machine beeps.] 

This is a rant. My child—my delightful, two-and-a-half, as of this morning, toddler, has had some special needs. And so we have bed-shared and we have been swaddling him at night because that’s how we get sleep and that is our world and I love you people for not judging me about these things the way that some of my well-meaning but kind of pain-in-the-ass friends do?

[Biz laughs.] 

And lately he has realized that he is a toddler! And he has opinions! And he has thoughts. And sometimes those thoughts are, “It’s three in the morning and I don’t wanna be asleep anymore so I’ma just slap Mom until she gets up and we go downstairs and watch cartoons.” And… so now… I am…

[Biz laughs.] 

—sleep-training and night-weaning a two-and-a-half-year-old. And it’s going just about as well as you could expect it to go. It’s like having an infant in my house again, except now the infant can kick me so hard that I bruise and can slap me so hard that it stings. And can scream at me so loud he terrifies the dogs. Yeah! And it’s also like having an infant in that the stress of this—[through laughter] we’re like a week in now. I’m fucking lactating again, y’all!

00:53:28

Biz

Host

[Yelling] Oh my god!

00:53:30

Caller

Caller

What the fuck. My body can’t even—my body is like, “What the hell is going on here? This is unacceptable.” And it is. Toddlers are unacceptable. 

[Biz laughs.] 

They are cute and they’re delightful and they’re unacceptable monsters with [sighs] terroristic tendencies. And that they survive at all is a testament to our love and patience and hormones. And now he’s eating a blue sparkly crayon, so I have to go stop him before he start shitting the rainbow.

[Biz laughs.] 

Okay, y’all. Good luck! We’re doing a great job!

00:54:06

Biz

Host

Yes!

00:54:07

Caller

Caller

Bye!

00:54:08

Biz

Host

Yes! You are doing a great job. Wow! Alright. Okay. Let’s just start—let’s just go to the beginning. We here at One Bad Mother have always been part of Team However You And Your Child Can Get Sleep Is Good. ‘K? If that is co-sleeping, if that is sleep training—whatever the fuck “sleep training” means—if that is—I don’t know—everybody having to sleep on a couch or a kid sleeping in a stroller. I don’t care! If it gets you sleep and it gets them sleep, I am very pro-whatever-that-is. Like the lying that we talked about in the fail, yeah! It comes at a cost. And… occasionally, the man comes to collect the rent, as it were. And in situations like this where you do have to re-sleep-train and it does suck and it’s definitely not as easy with a toddler. I don’t think sleep training is easy at all, so I would like to just state that for the record. But toddlers… now can talk. They can move. No one wants to get hit at the crack-ass of dawn. It’s like—[Laughs.] Multiple issues? Multiple things that suck all happening at once. Not getting sleep. That sucks. Getting hit or yelled at by a child. Really fucking sucks. It really takes us to, like, weird, deep, inner-self-reflecting places. Right? Where you’re like, “How did we come to this?” Right? Like—[Laughs.] And, y’know, it—ahhh! So I… I just want you to know, I see you. And then comes the really fucked-up, unfair thing, and that is the lactating. I am with you. What the actual fuck! There have been times that something has happened in which I will feel my breasts feel like they’re about—it’s that sensation. That like, “Ahhyahhh! Here comes milk!” And I’m like, “Is that about to really happen? Like, what the fuck is that? How did that get triggered?” And so you’re clearly in some sort of level of hell in which enough has happened to trigger this. And I am very sorry that that is happening for you right now. Yeah. All of it’s just a shitshow! And I think it really just boils down to what you said—it’s unacceptable. It’s unacceptable. No one cares that it’s unacceptable. You’re not like, “Hey, guys—this is unacceptable!” Right? Like, to your family or your friends or strangers on the street. They’re gonna be like… not interested in this discussion. And again, all of—let’s just get real. All of this is actually pretty hard to talk about, because everybody’s got a fucking opinion! And… even with the best of intentions, we can try to offer support that comes out making the person feel judged. Which sucks. And it can make it really hard as a parent to know who you can feel comfortable talking to about this. Without feeling like you’re suddenly gonna get a whole slew of advice that you’re not really looking for. We all just wanna hear, “That sucks, and you’re doing a good job.” So let me be very clear—that does, in fact, suck. And you’re doing a really remarkable job. 

00:57:42

Biz

Host

Okay, everybody. Let’s take what we learned in the rant and just apply it to ourselves right now. It can really suck, and… we’re doing a good job! We have these moments—if you’re lucky, sometimes daily—where you feel like, “I am seriously fucking everything up.” [Laughs.] Or, “This feels legitimately impossible. Like, legitimate—is there a camera on me? Is somebody filming me to see if I actually am able to get through this? Because from where I stand, X, Y, and Z seems incredibly impossible.” And there are children in your house! So whatever it is you’re trying to get through—probably involving your children—they don’t care. They’re still there yelling at you, asking for things, interrupting you, just crying. Crying. Maybe they got hurt, maybe they’re just crying because it’s Monday. I really—at this point, it can be… anything. And you’re supposed to somehow think your way through it, which is just not possible, guys. So… let’s remind ourselves—or let me remind you—that you’re correct that it’s impossible. And you’re correct that it’s hard. And that you are correct that you are doing a good job. It’s all about finding what works for you, your kid, your family. ‘K? And that’s… that’s the heart of it. I just think you’re all remarkable and you’re doing a great job and the holidays are here if you celebrate certain holidays. Y’know. Good luck. [Laughs.] I mean it. It’s gonna be stressful. If you don’t? You still probably have kids out of school, and that’s no fun. I’m about to have over two weeks of the kids out of school, and I have already forgotten everything that was pandemic-lockdown related. I’m already back so quickly to the place where I’m like, “Can you go back to school now? What about now? How about now? How about now? I don’t know what to do with you guys. I don’t do this well. This is not my strong suit as a parent.” So… yay! And I’ll talk to you guys next week! Bye!

01:00:11

Music

Music

“Mama Blues” by Cornbread Ted and the Butterbeans. Strumming acoustic guitar with harmonica and lyrics.

I got the lowdown momma blues

Got the the lowdown momma blues

Gots the lowdown momma blues

The lowdown momma blues. 

Gots the lowdown momma blues

Got the lowdown momma blues

You know that’s right.

[Music fades.]

01:00:35

Biz

Host

We’d like to thank MaxFun; our producer, Gabe Mara; our husbands, Stefan Lawrence and Jesse Thorn; our perfect children, who provide us with inspiration to say all these horrible things; and of course, you, our listeners. To find out more about the songs you heard on today’s podcast and more about the show, please go to MaximumFun.org/onebadmother. For information about live shows, our book and press, please check out OneBadMotherPodcast.com.

01:01:05

Theresa

Host

One Bad Mother is a member of the Maximum Fun family of podcasts. To support the show go to MaximumFun.org/donate.

[Music resumes for a while before fading out.]

01:01:27

Music

Transition

A cheerful ukulele chord.

01:01:28

Speaker 1

Guest

MaximumFun.org.

01:01:30

Speaker 2

Guest

Comedy and culture.

01:01:31

Speaker 3

Guest

Artist owned—

01:01:32

Speaker 4

Guest

—Audience supported.