Transcript
biz ellis
Hi. I’m Biz.
theresa thorn
And I’m Theresa.
biz
Due to the pandemic, we bring you One Bad Mother straight from our homes—including such interruptions as: children! Animal noises! And more! So let’s all get a little closer while we have to be so far apart. And remember—we are doing a good job.
music
“Summon the Rawk” by Kevin MacLeod. Driving electric guitar and heavy drums. [Continues through dialogue.]
biz
This week on One Bad Mother—well, that was mortifying! We talk to Neil Katcher about the joys of embarrassment. Plus, Biz shares her poetry.
crosstalk
Biz and caller: Wooo! Woo! Wooo!
caller
So, Biz. I just needed to call ‘cause I listened to your check-in in the car on my way to work, which is a middle school where I am an eighth grade teacher, and I just need to tell you what a great job you’re doing. Because every time you say “Thank you” to teachers and other essential workers who—if they’re anything like me—have had just the absolute worst year in their professional life ever. Ever imaginable. Like, ever. Ever. And just to hear someone say “Thank you” is really, really important. And is gonna help me make it through the last two days that I have left in this fucking school year. Holding on. Just trying to hold on. Because like you also added in your check-in, I am also terrified that people are gonna fuck this up and we’re gonna be doing this again in the next school year. So… here’s hoping. Here’s just putting one foot in front of the other, and I’m gonna make it! I am. I’m gonna make it through the next two days. And summer might be awful in a whole different way with my two kids, but I’m gonna make it. I’m gonna make it through the next two days. [Biz laughs.] And so are you. And you’re amazing. Thank you for saying “Thank you.” Bye.
biz
You made it! You made it! Those two days are long gone. You made it! You did it! And thank you for doing it. Especially on behalf of those of us with tweens. Man, I remember eighth grade as being, like… I can remember being so keenly aware that people could be raging assholes. Like, I was like, “Oh, that’s what that means!” Like, “Aaah!” We were the worst in that age. Thank you for doing it. You’re doing such a good job, and I hope that you’re having just the most amazing, epic, [through laughter] summerrrr! Ever. And you and me both. I just sit with everything crossed—left, right, backwards, upside-down—that we are all gonna be returning in person in the fall. So thank you for thanking me for thanking you! You’re welcome! Speaking of thank-yous, let’s do this! [Singing] It’s the thank-you show! Bop, ba-bah! [Regular voice] Maybe we should just make a whole new show. It’s just us thanking. It’s just like a big long list of thanking. Well that would be an easy show to do [goofy voice] ‘cause there’s so many people to thank! [Regular voice] So! It’s summer. Let’s start with all the people who work a lot more in the summer. Camp counselors. Camp directors. Lifeguards. People who work in the leisure industry, aka, people who work in hotels. People who work in restaurants. People who work at the theme parks that have braved opening. Thank you! Because a lot of people are gonna go crazy. They’re gonna leave their houses for the first time and they’re gonna come to your restaurant or to your hotel or to your wherever and they’re gonna go insane. And I just am gonna tell you right now—thank you for putting up with that insanity. That’s amazing. And… really, this slow return to whatever the fuck normal is really relies on you. So thank you. Thank you to medical staff. It’s not your summer break, is it? You’re still working! [Laughs.] Well thank you for doing it! Thank you for taking care of us! Thank you for—I don’t know—dealing with the Delta variant! Thank you to everybody who keeps hospitals and doctors’ offices and emergency care facilities clean and sanitized so that we can feel safe and secure entering those buildings to get the help that we need. Thank you, thank you. You know who I haven’t—I’m not sure I’ve ever thanked. Thank you to people who work in nursing home or senior living facilities. This has to have been a really hard year. And I… [sighs.] For so many reasons. And I’m not going to list them. Instead, I’m just going to say—thank you for the work that you do. Whatever it is that your job is at one of those communities. Thank you. Teachers? You’re done! No more teachers, no more books! No more dirty looks! I don’t—I didn’t say it right! Thank you, and I hope you’re having a much-deserved summer break. And I know that many of you have children, so. [Laughs.] Take that with a grain of salt.
biz
Thank you to transportation workers for getting us from A to B safely, and thank you to everybody who helps make packages happen. And grocery stores happen. And… the ability for us to get groceries happen. The list keeps going. I see you. I appreciate you. And you’re doing a great job. Speaking of doing a great job—I—in preparation for today’s guest—pulled out a notebook of ninth-grade poetry. I have now confirmed it’s ninth grade by looking at where I dated my poetry. And I thought, maybe today I’ll just set the tone for our show by sharing a poem. Because as a person with tweens, I can look upon this notebook with band names such as The Smiths and The Smithereens and The Cure and They Might Be Giants—yes, all of these—and I can see my own child reflected in these pages. Because I’ve listened to a lot of their cringe-worthy poetry. Guys, this is so bad. I am delighted to share. Gabe, I’m gonna feel like I’m naked in front of you all. So this is in 1989. Winter. Ninth grade. [Laughs.] Sorry. I’ll try to read it dramatically. [Dramatic violin music plays in background as Biz reads her poem.] Like the wind You whip through my life Like the stars You brighten my nights Like the sun I know you are there. Even when the clouds show deep despair. But! Like the wind You can be cold. And like the stars, Fall unfold. Even with the sun I can be burned. And hurt quite deeply. With things I’ve learned. [Whispers conspiratorially] I think this was about a boy! [Laughs.] [Regular voice] Oh, I’m getting snaps from the many thumbs of Gabe. I’m very pleased. So with that little bit of cringe-worthiness, I think it’s gonna tie in nicely to what we’re gonna talk about today with our guest, Neil Katcher, of Mortified and Ooh You’re In Trouble.
music
Banjo strums; cheerful banjo music continues through dialogue.
theresa
Please—take a moment to remember: If you’re friends of the hosts of One Bad Mother, you should assume that when we talk about other moms, we’re talking about you.
biz
If you are married to the host of One Bad Mother, we definitely are talking about you.
theresa
Nothing we say constitutes professional parenting advice.
biz
Biz and Theresa’s children are brilliant, lovely, and exceedingly extraordinary.
theresa
Nothing said on this podcast about them implies otherwise. [Banjo music fades out.] [Biz and Neil repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss the weekly topic.]
biz
This week, I am so excited to be speaking with Neil Katcher, who is the co-creator of the legendary storytelling podcast Mortified and is also the co-creator of the new kids’ podcast [excitedly] Ooh You’re In Trouble!
crosstalk
Neil: Nicely done. [Laughs.] Biz: Thank you!
biz
I’m available. Now in season two from TRAXS from PRX, welcome Neil! [Claps.] Wheee!
neil katcher
Thank you. Thanks for having me! [Biz laughs.]
biz
It’s so nice!
neil
That’s what you’re supposed to say, right?
biz
Yeah. Yeah. Like, “Thanks—"
neil
I always say, “Thanks for having me.”
biz
Yeah. “Thanks for having me, but I gotta go in like ten minutes. So—” No, I’m just kidding. [Laughs.]
neil
Well I have a—we have a puppy in the other room so we could get interrupted at some point.
crosstalk
Biz: Oh! I— Neil: That’s not a threat.
biz
That’s a promise? Is that a—
neil
No, it’s— [Biz laughs.] I mean to say it’s like—can you imagine—[threateningly] I have a puppy in the other room. [Laughs.] Better be careful.
biz
I dunno. Is that code?
crosstalk
Biz: Is that code for something? Neil: Yes. You have to be careful. [Both laugh.]
biz
Like, what is that? What does that mean? Alright, well let’s just jump right there—tell us who lives in your house!
neil
Alright. So myself. I have a wife. And I have a soon-to-be-nine-year-old son. And a soon-to-be-four-and-a-half-month-old puppy. [Biz laughs.]
biz
I’ll just let my silence speak for itself. Were things just getting too quiet around the place? [Laughs.]
neil
No, I think what happened was… we decided the pandemic hadn’t gone long enough and we weren’t trapped in our house long enough. So why not—at the very end of being trapped in your house—get a puppy that now traps you for longer? I think that was the idea.
biz
That is a really good idea. It’s sort of like that same argument of “What can we do to save this marriage?” [Neil laughs.] “What can I do to strengthen my relationship with my child? Let’s do—” Any of those! Any of those.
neil
Well the truth is, the dog appeared because of guilt over having an only child. That’s the truth.
biz
Is that really it?
neil
That’s absolutely the truth.
biz
Yeah. No. Trust me—I have two. Now that they’re both—the youngest is seven. And I would say somewhere around last year—and I have zero interest in having any more children. I had them later in life. Even if I had had them when I was eighteen, I’d still have zero interest in having any more children. [Neil laughs.] But I started doing the ol’, “I’ll just take a look at the Humane Society website. I think we really need a dog! I think for sure I’m gonna need a dog, Stefan. I’m gonna need—” Right? And we never got one because we can’t handle a dog. So y’know. Three cats.
neil
And don’t buy the myth that the kid’s gonna help.
biz
No. I have children. [Neil laughs.] I have discovered that most things relating to children is a myth. So y’know. I’m fine with that. Alright, let’s get into why we’re talking to you today. [Neil laughs.] You’ve got this new podcast, Ooh You’re In Trouble! Which is geared more towards kids—I would say more middle-aged kids. I was listening to it.
crosstalk
Biz: ‘Cause a lot of—yeah! Neil: Forty-year-old kids. Yep.
biz
Thirty-year-olds. Because it’s sharing experiences like things that you would say, “Ooh, you’re gonna get in trouble!” for. And then allowing sort of kids who are listening to kind of think about it. Right? To—which is very noble of you. [Laughs.] As opposed—
neil
Well I think part—yeah.
biz
Well I was gonna say as opposed to just giving them ideas. [Laughs.]
neil
Well that’s something that we’ve thought about quite a bit. But—are we teaching them to do horrible, horrible things? But no. In fact, I think—so it’s meant for kids that are nine to thirteen years old. Sort of that—what they call “tweens,” which I don’t even know if it’s a real word or not or how they’re gonna—
biz
Oh, it’s real. It’s real.
neil
Okay. Which actually is a really wide range of kid? A nine-year-old is vastly different than a thirteen-year-old. But we tend to make the show more for the slightly-younger set because we don’t wanna expose a nine-year-old to a fourteen-year-old story or like a twenty-year—you know what I mean? So it’s like a little—there are things that a nine-year-old is like, “I don’t know what you’re even talking about?” [Biz laughs.] But, y’know, I think one of the things that I’ve realized in making the shows—‘cause the—so the stories that are told on the show are actually told by young people. By kids. By teenagers. And young adults. And I think the idea is they’ve done something in their past so you don’t have to.
biz
Oh! Right.
neil
Right? So you can listen to the show and you can start to think more deeply about situations that have not—you’ve not encountered yet. And by hearing it play out and fully play out so you hear what the fears, consequences, the drama, the—all the things that happen when you decide to sort of break a rule. Y’know. When you break a rule, things tend to—hijinks ensues? So it’s fun? [Biz laughs.] But that hijinks tends to have steps where there’s all these unintended things start to build up. And being able to hear that is great because when you tend to break a rule you tend to—as a kid you are only thinking about the immediate thing that happens when you do that. And you don’t think through all the steps. And especially at this age, y’know, my son is getting more and more independent. He’s just about to turn nine. He doesn’t wanna hear as much from his parents. And he’s gonna be starting—y’know, he’s already facing social situations where he’s on his own! For us it’s weird that we’re making this podcast in the middle of the pandemic, but in some ways it’s kinda cool ‘cause now Henry—my son—is going back to school and all these kids are going back to school and they’re going to be facing social situations that they haven’t had to face in over a year. And so—yeah.
biz
Yeah. And sometimes faster—like, sometimes off schedule, as it were. Y’know? Like I think… each year has something important to offer in terms of… life lessons. Right? And like, there’s been this whole missing year of that. So when you go back, y’know, how—what—where are they gonna fall on the life lesson chart? Are they jumping headfirst into older tween stuff? Or are we still fighting over a toy?
neil
It's both! That’s the problem.
biz
Yeah. No. It is both. Well see, now—and you just said it—that’s the problem. Because we’re old and have children now. And I was— [Both laugh.] I was listening to a couple of the latest podcasts from Season 2. In particular the one about sneaking the boy into the house. Which is a great one. And there’s no comeuppance. It’s—outside of guilt. [Laughs.]
neil
Right. True.
biz
Which is fine. That’s sometimes the outcome. But I was thinking about my own past. And I know that for me, before having kids, I had a long list of, “Oh, I’m gonna be so cool about this” and “I can’t wait for this to happen and watch them go through this” and then, y’know. That just went right out the window. And I made lots of interesting choices as a kid. And I made lots of interesting choices in my twenties. And my thirties. [Neil laughs.] And I am pretty sure at some point in time, y’know, I might’ve even shared some of this stuff in a Mortified in New York City. There’s like a slim chance that that might’ve even happened. [Neil laughs.] And now all I think of when I see my kids is, “Oh, god. A, I don’t want you to do that. ‘Cause that wasn’t great. B, I know you are gonna do it. I know you’re gonna do something. You’re gonna do something. That is fact.”
neil
And you’re not gonna be able to predict it.
biz
Yeah! I don’t know what it’s gonna be and you’re not gonna tell me. I always felt like I came out pretty good. I’m a functioning adult. But my worry is the complete opposite about my kids. I’m like, “Oh, god, you’re gonna lie or cheat or steal or, y’know, run off with a girl or a boy or whatever—try something.” Right? “And you’re not as hardcore as I am.” [Laughs.] And I gotta tell you—as an adult listening to this podcast? Listening to the Ooh You’re In Trouble!? Is actually—it reminds me that most of the time it actually is okay and that my kids will learn something from this. Whether they realize it or not. When you started doing the podcast and listening to the stories, did you have those moments?
neil
Well, so—some of the stories, for sure. There’s some of the more innocent stories, absolutely. He’s already done them. There’s an episodes where a twelve-year-old who’s super technologically interested figures out a loophole at the phone company. [Biz laughs.] And learns that he can trade in broken phones for new phones.
biz
Oh my god. I love it.
neil
And then sell those new phones on eBay and make profit. And he—there was a loop—this story happened like almost ten years ago, before—that loophole has since closed, thank god. [Biz laughs.] But it was like a real—a real thing. And I was like, A, shocked and impressed by the ingenuity of this twelve-year-old? At the same time, horrified of what would happen if you actually got caught. Technically, it wasn’t even a rule that—we looked it up. We did research. He wasn’t actually breaking a rule. But he was making an ethically—he was in an ethical quandary for sure. [Both laugh.] Like if you know there’s a loophole, should you exploit it? Which is a real interesting question, ‘cause as adults we constantly face that question ‘cause we’re aware of a lotta loopholes. Hello, tax season. Right? And so—but like, kids—like… there’s all these things that they face, too, that are much smaller. Like, “Well, Dad didn’t technically say I couldn’t have those cookies.” Y’know. “They’re out on the counter. They’re not in the drawer.” So y’know, they’re already sort of doing that. And I think it’s… it’s fun ‘cause it’s an interesting kind of question you can ask. But I think that my son will not be doing that.
biz
Okay. Yeah. No. I don’t think my children are at that skill level? Their choices will rely somewhere else.
neil
My son inherited— [Biz laughs.] —the anxious Jewish mother gene, which I fully have. I am absolutely a Jewish mother. [Biz laughs.] There is no doubt about it. We’re interfaith marriage and my wife is the “throw some dirt on it” person and I’m the “this is gonna wound him for the rest of his life!” Yeah. So—but my theory on raising him on some level accidentally was—if I give him enough of my anxiety he won’t do any of this stuff.
biz
Well right! Yeah. I somehow— [Neil laughs.] —am preparing—my parents—little of A, little of B. Mama watched a lot of procedurals so I always say from my father’s side of the family I was raised on bar bets and Let’s Make a Deal sort of haggling situations. While my mom watched a lot of procedurals. So you might be walking through the den and she would suddenly yell, y’know, “Don’t just stab them once, baby! Stab them ‘til they’re dead!” [Neil laughs.] Or like—[Laughs.] Or like, “When you—if you need help, you call the police. You say ‘Officer down!’ and we will help deal with whatever happens after that. Right? ‘Cause it’s the only thing they’ll take serious.” Right? And I’m like, “Okay.” So I like to think of being… prepared, not paranoid. Right? And my husband was like, “Jesus, Elizabeth, I do not want these kids to be paranoid.” And I was like, “I was never paranoid. I always felt prepared.” [Neil laughs.] It’s so obvious—
neil
It’s a fine line. It’s a fine line.
biz
Right. It is. Because it’s so obvious that like… y’know, you gotta know your kids and what they’re capable of. Right? And then you have to also decide, how much should I limit? How much should I allow? But my favorite thing in this house that relates to what you just said is whenever anybody coughs, everybody in the room goes, “Are you okay?!” Just in case you’re choking. Right? Like, so it doesn’t matter. “Are you okay?!” And if you’re coughing and you can’t answer because you’re like mid-cough, you’re trying to give hand signals, everybody’s like, “Are! You! Okay?!” and everybody has to say it as if you’re calling for help. Right? Like, this is… this is—I feel like, you know what? Yeah, I’m alright with this. [Laughs.]
neil
I’ve gotten in trouble in my house from my wife for using the phrase “Are you okay?” too often. [Biz laughs.] “Are you okay?” ‘Cause she thinks I ask it way too often.
biz
Well, my husband gets mad at me for, “Watch your step. Watch out. Watch—watch your step.” [Neil laughs.] Mine’s like constantly, “Watch—” We have a lot of cats! And they’re constantly—people are always stepping on cats in this house! So I’m like, “Watch it! There’s a cat!” And everybody’s like, “We know.” And I’m like, “The one time I don’t tell you is the time you’re going to step on that cat.” Anyway. Let’s get back to Ooh You’re In Trouble. [Laughs.]
neil
So yeah. [Laughs.] Well, so, the one thing though that I should bring up is that one of the things that you realize in doing a show like this and the stories that we tell is that you’re sort of reminded that when you’re a kid, the times when you learn—the experiences where you end up learning the most about who you are and what your boundaries are and what you’re willing to do; what you’re not willing to do, and who you are—are the moments where you’re essentially not doing what you’re told. You are stepping out and trying to experience the world for yourself and express your independence. And that independence is from breaking rules. Y’know. From not staying inside the box. If you stay inside the box you tend not to know what your limits are and then you go to college or you go past that and then you learn it later in life ‘cause eventually you are not gonna be comfortable staying inside your box. So I think it’s really interesting ‘cause I think you do learn a lot about who you are and I think the audience—as they’re listening to these stories—gets to answer those questions without totally having to… do the things that sometimes happen in the show.
biz
Well that’s another aspect that I really think is very thoughtful in the creation of this show. Is… towards the end, you offer the sort of questions for kids to journal or talk to somebody about—like, I remember I would use television to do that sort of thing with my folks. We’d be watching Family Ties. Somebody—Mallory would make a horrible choice and then I would sort of be like—
neil
You better not be talking about Nick! You better not be talking about Nick! Okay.
biz
No! Not Nick. Not Nick. Nick is the best choice Mallory every made in her life. [Neil laughs.] Love those fucking Batemans. Anyway. So I would present that as “What would you guys do if I did that?” That same sort of experience gets to happen with the podcast where, y’know, let’s say you’re talking to your parents or with a friend or journaling like you guys offer. I think that’s a really—without ever having to admit that I snuck a boy in the house, I can use that podcast example as a, “Well if I ever did, what would you do?”
neil
And then the other thing, too, is—one of the things that—y’know, I grew up in the ‘80s as well so I’m familiar with all the sitcoms—one of the things that—and one we can’t even really talk about anymore that was a really big one for learning lessons—like, I can’t really—I mean, I can say it—I mean, I shouldn’t say it—well, there was big news about him this week.
biz
What is it? Oh! Fuck that monster! [Laughs.]
neil
But the show—but the show was great. So—but the show! So.
biz
I know! We watched Theo make all the—Theo and the rent episode is one of the best.
neil
But the thing is about Cosby Show and a lot of those shows—‘cause ‘80s were a very pure time on television—was that they tend to moralize by the end of the episode. So a kid does something wrong but then they sort of tell you what you’re supposed to do. Or they kind of wrap it in a neat bow. And the parenting choices are so perfect. And everything just—oh, and the kid finally hears that parent and it all works out and the episode gets to the end. But we know that one of the sort of philosophies of creating the show that we created was—that’s not realistic.
biz
No. It’s been very disappointing, in fact. [Neil laughs.] That any of those shows held any reality. Like, I have really been pretty pissed about it. [Laughs.]
neil
Well the weird thing is is that we were angry when we were kids because our parents weren’t like that. And now I’m angry as an adult because I can’t do that. [Biz laughs.]
biz
[Through laughter] I know!
neil
So I—you just—you cannot win. But—so one of the philosophies we sort of went into doing this show was, was like—even though the other show that we do is a show about being a teenager but for adults and we can look back and laugh at who we were—which is called Mortified—technically Mortified, even though you’re sharing shame, it’s about removing shame. And in this show it’s a no-shame zone as well. Where a kid will do something where they’re breaking a rule. We’re not gonna tell you “That’s wrong” or “That’s right.” We’re gonna investigate it. We’re gonna understand why the kid made the choices they made. Understand where they’re coming from. And then take you thought what happened in the story. But we’re not going to tell you how to feel. We will ask questions throughout it when a kid is doing something. One of the fun parts of the show is that when any kid tells you a story about something that happened, the fun part is hearing their decision-making process. And that’s kind of the hijinks is getting to hear what—“So you made that decision?” And I think that’s the fun of the show, but it’s also—it serves a purpose. Because we’re drawing out the decisions that kids are making and pointing it out to the audience. “Here’s a decision that’s being made. I’m not telling you whether that’s right or wrong, but we’ll bring it up and we’ll question it. But we’ll let you decide.”
biz
Well what’s—one of the other ones from this season is a girl avoiding homework. She had too many things going on. She was going to avoid the homework. And I would say that a majority of her decisions just relied on not fucking wanting to do it. Like, really—which is, at its core, a really motivating reason! To make that choice. I mean, I think that’s the other good thing to remember is that not all choices are these really huge, y’know, “I’m gonna stay up all night. I’m gonna—” No! “I didn’t—I really just couldn’t do it! I just didn’t want to! I had too many other things happening and this was just… we’re just gonna go all in on not doing this thing I’m supposed to be doing.” And like every lie, every choice, right? And it’s not like she wasn’t reflecting on it, but I also—I think as a parent we can forget that sometimes our kids are just making choices purely out of… need. Out of want. Which is no different than choices we make.
neil
Mm-hm. I think that one of the things the podcast has sort of taught me while I’ve been making the show—but it’s still hard, there’s a lesson to learn as a parent every time it happens—is when your kid does something or you find out about something that happened, where you’re like—where they did something that we could consider to be bad or wrong—the initial—there’s a snap answer where you kind of want to correct it as quickly as possible. There’s almost a shame and a guilt around how you’re parenting and that’s why it happened. And you’re in your own head about it and you’re not really understanding what happened that led to it; why did it happen; like, what’s actually the thing that the kid needs to think about? You’re not gonna know that until you understand what their motivation was and how things played out. And so for me it sort of taught me, like, I’d wanna be able to do the thing our parents did, which is like—the world is black and white.
biz
Yeah. That’d be great, wouldn’t it?
neil
And right away, somebody does something wrong and you just say, “Nope! Don’t do that. End of discussion. I don’t wanna talk about it.” Which… I don’t know that—I think kids reject. I know I rejected it quite hard when I was a kid. It’s the hot stove version of parenting. Like, not everything in life is a hot stove! And— [Biz laughs.] —you don’t want to go through your life as a kid—like, as you grow up—like, it blows your mind when something you are told was a hot stove—and you get to eighteen or nineteen or twenty or fifty or whatever—and you do that thing and you’re like, “That’s actually not a hot stove! I’m fine! There’s nothing wrong—like, that was—” I think there’s a more evolved way to deal with it. Not all the time, but a lot of the times. Sometimes there really is a hot stove.
biz
Do you know what we call that on this show?
neil
What?
biz
Fucking a lot of work! It’s so much work, Neil! [Neil laughs and applauds.] It’s like… I mean, don’t get me wrong. We’re all striving for it. Right? But that moment where the kid does something—I mean, I’m with you. It would be really easy to be like, “You’re grounded.” Y’know, or whatever. But yes. You do have to pursue because the real learning is in the, y’know, A, you’re showing your kid that you actually are there for them. Right? Even when they do something quote-unquote “wrong.” Which is I know something we really try to do in this house. But at the same time, walking through that with them? Sometimes it’s still really fucking hard ‘cause you’re tired!
neil
I will say that— [Biz laughs.] —you have multiple children and multiple cats.
biz
Yeah. The cats are the ones that really are a problem.
neil
[Laughs.] Right. Of course. But the real issue is that I only have one kid.
biz
And that’s enough, by the way!
neil
But that’s a lot easier to talk through those—walk through those things.
biz
Oh!
neil
Well, no, ‘cause here’s what I’ll say. Here’s why I say that. I’m not saying in the moment it’s easier. It’s never easy in the moment. There’s no walking through anything in the moment when something happens. That—like, at least in my experience. You’re not walking through it—‘cause there’s too much embarrassment; shame; frustration—from the kid, from you. Like, it’s too hot. What I’ve discovered that works sometimes—it’s certainly not something that works all the time ‘cause that doesn’t exist? But—right? I guess.
biz
I dunno. [Laughs.] I’m still looking.
neil
It’s one of the ways I both screw up my kid but I think also it works. There’s—no solution doesn’t create another problem, right? [Biz laughs.] But the thing I’ve gotten in the habit of doing is that a lot of times when my son is getting ready to go to sleep he’ll lay in bed and I’ll lay with him. When you have two kids, that’s a lot harder. Especially if they’re in the same room. There’s all sorts of—like, it just gets harder. And you’re—at best in your house, you’re on an even-man situation. Like, it’s two versus two at best.
biz
That’s why the good Lord invented television. Alright? [Neil laughs.] Like, that is why you say, “I’m gonna need you to watch something while I go talk to your sibling.” Right? Like it’s—and here’s the thing. We just—just so you know, we always say on this show—literally every situation is different and I will—sometimes your one kid will completely trump my two. And my two will break the spirit of someone with six. Right? Like, you never know— [Neil laughs.] You never know. Alright. I want to get into Mortified, which is clearly where this sort of… stemmed? I gotta assume this sort of stemmed from is Mortified. Which is such a great show. It started out as a live show. And you guys still do live shows, but not now ‘cause there’s a pandemic. Right?
neil
Yeah. We’re—yes. Exactly.
biz
And then it became the podcast. In fact, it’s branched off into many things. There’s a game. There’s all sorts of things! But at its core—like you said earlier—you get to come in and talk about things that I call “very cringeworthy” things from your past. And laugh with others at yourself. Which is… really nice!
neil
And one of the fun things—or one of the things that, I guess, makes Mortified a little unique in the storytelling universe is that basically what people are sharing on stage is the actual writings of their childhood. So it’s—you are trapped by the words that you wrote when you were… Oh, boy. Oh, this is very exciting. Y’know, I was actually thinking getting into this that, “I really hope Biz has some stuff.” This is very exciting.
biz
I’m gonna show—I already started the show reading one of my poems? From ninth grade. This was my Alabama history—now poetry—scratched-out book. In it—
neil
Well y’know, I already have a good sense of something going on ‘cause—where in Alabama did you grow up?
biz
Uh, Tuscaloosa, then—y’know. For this—this was in Tuscaloosa, home of the University of Alabama. Roll tide. I’m gonna say that as opposed to some of the more [through laughter] horrible aspects of the university. Go ahead.
neil
Well it’s just interesting you grew up in Alabama and one of the names I saw scratched into that folder were The Smiths. I’m getting a sense of what it was like for you to grow up in Alabama— [Biz laughs.] —just by that. [Biz laughs.]
biz
There’s The Smiths. The Boomtown Rats. The Cure. They Might Be Giants. REM and The Smithereens. I gotta say, it was actually a good time? Because at the University of Alabama and in the ‘80s, no one cared where your children were. So like— [Neil laughs.] We were constantly going to see free concerts on the quad or whatever. Or if you are in some sorority’s backyard of REM and when they were all just beginning in the ‘80s. So it wasn’t bad. But yes. I was. I was exactly whatever you think I was. [Neil laughs.] And awkward, to boot. I shared some poetry and I’m gonna share some more because it—
neil
Is it by any chance slightly dark poetry?
biz
Oh, wait.
neil
Or angsty? [Laughs.]
biz
It’s dark and romantic.
neil
Ooh! This is good.
biz
And by “romantic” I mean it’s so… so gross. It’s also just fucking cringey grossness. Alright.
neil
It sounds perfect.
biz
Yep! This one has a star on it so I guess I really liked it. ‘K. [Laughs.] I have to do it in a voice. [Dramatic violin and piano music begins.] Searching for a place to find myself, I start by finding you. [Neil laughs.] Open your arms and let me fall into their understanding. Hold me ‘til the sorrow leaves and the emptiness fades. Ignore my faults and find my strengths, for I am vulnerable— But don’t take advantage. My walls might lower, but not for long. Only ‘til your arms fall limp and leave my side. Until then, I am yours. But only for a while. [Music ceases.] What the fuck is that about, in ninth grade?
neil
That’s ninth grade? That’s really impressive for ninth grade!
biz
[Screaming] That’s not—this is like, me listening to too much of The Smiths and The Cure. And basically never being asked out on a date, ever. Gabe, I’m sorry. Are you crying? Did I really—I clearly touched something for Gabe. He might be shedding a tear. It’s basically all of that.
neil
Well I feel like we are a kindred spirits. Because—
biz
Oh, do you have any that you can share?
neil
Well… [sighs.] [Biz laughs.] Hold on one second. I am in front of my computer. But…
biz
I was gonna say. Yeah. I didn’t ask, but I’ve gotta assume it’s just always at the ready. [Laughs.]
neil
Well I will just tell you that whenever I’ve done—read my poetry—which, I didn’t write much poetry as a kid—so when I did write it I was trying to be very serious with my poetry and it did not work? But I will just tell you that whenever I’ve shared my poetry on the Mortified stage, the song that they play at the end is “Boys Don’t Cry.”
biz
Oh. So good.
neil
So you can guess where I was as a kid. But very brooding. Very dark. I will—so which—what do you wanna hear? Do you wanna hear a dark poetry—
biz
I want your a-game.
neil
—that I’m still unclear as to what the—
biz
Point was?
neil
The point—the message is? Where it’s a little all over the map. But it’s very dark. Very brooding. Or an anti—well, or a poem about prom. I feel like the prom sounds like it’s more relatable? But you might wanna hear—
biz
I’m going with dark and brooding! I want dark and brooding. I want to know the deep-inside thought process of Neil.
neil
Okay. So… I didn’t write that many poems. But this poem I wrote—I was going through a very dark period around the prom in general. Did not wanna—I felt like I was conforming if I went to the prom. But then at—somehow at the last second, I conformed. And I took a blind date to the prom. I’m not gonna go into that horror. [Biz laughs.] But that is not a correct choice. Because I came home and however dark I was prior to the situation? Did not match… the person I had become. [Laughs.]
biz
The true darkness. The true darkness that was awakened at the prom. Alright.
neil
Mm-hm. So what you need to know is that this poem is untitled. [Biz laughs.] ‘Cause that’s important if you really wanna be—it’s very important if you’re assessing how dark it is. If you give it a title, it’s over. Okay. You tell me what it’s about when we’re done.
biz
I love this game. Let’s do it.
neil
It needs a voice, too.
biz
I understand!
neil
[Dramatic, slow piano music plays in background. Neil uses dramatic voice.] Death to the tormentors. Glance over to the persecutors and release your fury. The beginning of the end. The damnation of love. The hellfires of paradise reign free as the good take the night like raging packs of wolves. Hate and destruction—[Laughs.] Sorry. Hate and destruction kills all evil. They play that grand old symphony with pleasure as the listeners shriek in pain. Cover the secrets. And let be known the obvious for the first time. The omnipotent coward controls the tired puppets. This is true. This is still a true statement. [Laughs.] [Music ends.] I mean, was I—I’ll stop there. It goes on and on. But it doesn’t get better. It doesn’t get better.
biz
This is—okay. I’ve listened and I think—
neil
Just know it ends with the apocalypse of the world. Just know that’s where it ends.
biz
Okay. I have two initial thoughts. One is—jocks versus nerds. ‘K? This clearly is a popular kid versus—the popular kid—I mean, “the good run like wolves through the night.” Also, what I love about hearing poetry like this is if it hadn’t been for Heathers, which was one of my favorite fantasy movies, no one would think twice about the dark, brooding poetry! [Neil laughs.] Right? Isn’t it like a little… it’s a little sad. I feel like there’s a little bit of a loss that when kids express themselves as you just expressed all over the place— [Neil laughs.] There’s not a sense of, “Well, start checking his backpack!” Right? Like, it’s—y’know, that stuff is serious and fucked—
neil
“Oh no, there’s more—this is worse than we thought. There is more poetry.” [Laughs.]
biz
There’s more poetry! That would be… that’s what you’re gonna find in 90% of the backpacks! I loved that. That was—if anything says “prom,” that would be it. [Neil laughs.] Well, Neil, obviously I could sit here and talk to you for eight more hours. But what I’m going to do is instead tell people to make sure—look. You’re getting two podcasts to enjoy at the same time. By Neil Katcher and his cohorts. You’ve got Ooh You’re In Trouble!—geared towards your children—but as an adult—
neil
It’s a great thing to watch with your family in the car on road trips. Especially this summer. Great way to waste the time and to have great conversations with your kids. And then the other podcast, also about being a kid, but really only for the adults. [Biz laughs.] I wouldn’t play that for the kids.
biz
Mortified! Because we just shared really mortifying moments.
neil
And both of our things were actually very innocent, comparatively, to what most teenagers write now.
biz
I know. Oh, I know. Yeah. There’s—[Laughs.]
neil
There wasn’t a curse between the two of us. And that would be the lightest stuff!
biz
Yeah. That’s the—well, I didn’t get into the other poetry. No, I’m just kidding. [Neil laughs.] It’s just like, “Fuck! Damn! Shit! Fuck, damn, shit! Shit! Fuck, damn, shit!” Right? [Laughs.]
neil
Well what I was impressed with your poetry is your just—your ability to actually express what you’re going through. Not bad! Not bad!
biz
Wow. I’m gonna—I will—
neil
I’m very impressed.
biz
Where were you? Where were you when I was in ninth grade?
neil
I mean, what I’m really trying to say is your writing isn’t shitty enough. [Biz laughs.] Is what I’m trying to say.
biz
I’m sorry. I will work harder. How about this? Let’s have you back on and I’ll sneak into my oldest’s room—the twelve-year-old—
neil
Oh no. That’s—
biz
And I’ll steal their diary.
neil
Violation. That’s a huge violation, mom. [Biz laughs.] I don’t know—[through laughter] why would you do—
biz
Not if they don’t know about it! Ooh! I’m in trouble! I’m just kidding. Alright. Neil, thank you so much for joining us. And for creating these things. This is—it’s really comforting to remember that we were all, y’know, kind of a mess. Really all the time.
neil
Yeah. I don’t know that we’ve stopped. But.
biz
No! No. No.
neil
But people think we—y’know, if you put on a nice enough shirt, people think you’re fun. And that’s really what it’s all about.
biz
As my mother used to say, “Put a little lipstick on, baby. You’ll feel better.” Everybody, we are gonna hook you up to where you can find out more about both of these podcasts. Neil? Lay it on us!
neil
Well you can hear Ooh You’re In Trouble! anywhere, but you can also find out more at ListenToTrouble.com or if you wanna know more about Mortified and participating either in podcasts or the live shows, or get the home game yourself, you can find it at GetMortified.com.
biz
Wooo! It’s official! There are websites. [Neil laughs.] Well Neil, thank you so much for joining us.
neil
Thank you for having me! It’s been—you’re a blast. It’s really fun.
biz
Oh! Woo! Pyew-pyew! So are you. And… goodbye! [Laughs.]
neil
Bye! [Laughs.]
music
“Ones and Zeroes” by “Awesome.” Steady, driving electric guitar with drum and woodwinds. [Music fades out.]
music
Cheerful ukulele and whistling plays in background.
biz
One Bad Mother is supported in part by Billie, the creator of the award-winning razor by the same name. Self-care and routine are more important than ever, especially when we are returning to whatever normal life is. During the pandemic, I may not have… really tended to some of my personal needs when it comes to shaving. [Laughs.] And then I met Billie! Which is an award-winning razor that is so smooth. Not only does it give the smoothest shaves, but it smoothly handled my pandemic legs with one swipe! So go to MyBillie.com/mother to get the best razor you will ever own. It’s just $9 to get your starter kit plus free shipping always. Go to MyBillie.com/mother. That is spelled MyB-I-L-L-I-E.com/mother. [Music fades.]
theresa
Hey, you know what it’s time for! This week’s genius and fails! This is the part of the show where we share our genius moment of the week, as well as our failures, and feel better about ourselves by hearing yours. You can share some of your own by calling 206-350-9485. That’s 206-350-9485.
biz
Genius fail time! Hello! Hello? Hello? Theresa, are you hiding? Are you underrr… the couch? Are you behind a tree? Are you hiding… in the bathroom? Yes. You are hiding in the bathroom. This week Theresa, once again, needs to hide in the bathroom. And so it will be, once again, the delightfully awkward sharing of my genius and fail moments to silence. Except for the beating rhythm of Gabe’s thumbs going up or down. So with that said, genius me… me!
clip
[Dramatic, swelling music in background.] Biz: Wow! Oh my God! Oh my God! I saw what you did! Oh my God! I’m paying attention! Wow! You, mom, are a genius. Oh my God, that’s fucking genius!
biz
Guys, I took Ellis to a garage sale. Ellis is like—the kid needs Legos. All the time. Every day there’s like a new Lego. Not, like, a set. Like a piece. Like one random piece. “I need this snake. I need this face.” Which is beautiful and wonderful that Ellis is creating so much with the Legos. And I just was like, “Why don’t we start hitting some yard sales? You never know. Somebody’s probably grown out of their Ninjago Legos or something.” I find a garage sale nearby that actually says it’s got Legos. I emailed the guy. And I say, “By any chance are there Ninjago Legos in there?” “Yes!” “What time does the yard sale start?” “7:30.” Ellis and I get in the car and we get there at 7:30! That bin is already gone. Somebody took just the whole bin, which I understand. I do understand. So we’re sitting there a little pouty and the kid who lives there comes out with a few extra pieces that they had. We got those. But now here’s the genius—the genius is, I say to this kid, “Hey, kid. Anything else in there that you’re done with? I dunno. Beyblades?” ‘Cause this is now the new thing in our lives are the Beyblades. They’re tops. [Laughs.] They spin fast. And the kid’s like, “Yeah!” And he comes in—and he comes out with like a stadium? Like, the Beyblades stadium. Which—by the way—looks like something you could get at the hardware store and yet they wanna sell it to you for somewhere between fifteen and thirty dollars at the Target. For basically a plastic tub that you would put paint in to paint. Okay? That has irritated me to no end. But anyway, the stadium is full of Beyblades! Full of the Beys! And we got those—I mean, Ellis was just like overjoyed. And we got it all for five bucks. [Laughs.] Plus I’m teaching Ellis how to haggle, which is always good. So I felt like it was a real victory and it’s also been a really fun thing for us to do early on Saturday morning. And we’re not spending a lot of money, which is great! So… three! Two! One! Let ‘er… rip!
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Hey, One Bad Mother! I’m just calling with a genius. I spent like $5 at Walmart to buy a bubble gun and it was the best $5 that I have ever spent. And then a dollar giant refill kit and she is able to blow bubbles by herself while I sit here and hold the baby and read a book and don’t have to be constantly blowing bubbles or having anything sipll. And it has provided an hour worth of uninterrupted entertainment for my two-year-old. And it’s wonderful! Thank you for the show and you’re all doing a great job!
biz
Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. Bubble gun! Not bubble gum, which I did think is what you said the first time that I was listening. And then I went back and I was like, “How old is this kid? An hour chewing bubble gum? Like, and how much bubble gum is it for $5?” But then I heard “bubble gun” and I remembered that this is the greatest invention known to man. ‘Cause I, like you, hated—I lost the joy of blowing bubbles pretty much right away? And that bubble juice gets all over your hands? Blech! So that is a wonderful job. You are fucking genius. Failures!
clip
[Dramatic orchestral music plays in the background.] Theresa: [In a voice akin to the Wicked Witch of the West] Fail. Fail. Fail. FAIL! [Timpani with foot pedal engaged for humorous effect.] Biz: [Calmly] You suck!
biz
Fail me, me. Well, that’s easy. [Laughs.] That’s an easy thing to do. Again, this is way more confessional when you’re doing it all by yourself. So the tub that Ellis bathes in—Raiden, at this point, takes showers. Ellis—again—terrified of water on his ears. So again, only a tub kid. I would not say that during the pandemic I’ve really cleaned the tub. ‘K? And… wow. The other day I went in and I looked at it while I was filling it up for Ellis. And it is… really disgusting. Like, the rim—the dirt rim—y’know, that goes around the middle of the tub—usually you can kinda take a washcloth or your finger and kinda go over it and you’re like, “Alright, yeah. Let’s—I just need to get some scrubbing here and take care of it.” Well I take the washcloth and I start—[Laughs.] I start rubbing the dirt ring and it literally sort of bleeds. Like, it smears black. And I’m thinking… what is this? What is this next-level dirt that’s there? Also, there is some weird yellow quarter-sized stains that are just starting to appear on the white tub that I’m like… what is that? Where is that coming from? And I’m wiping—they’re not even moving. I don’t even know what that is. That’s disgusting. Yeah! Oh! And—a really long time ago, I bought a pack of twenty-five washcloths from Amazon. And this falls into my failures of “Why on earth have I not rebought this?” Right? Like, I have so many things that I’m like, “Okay, we’re gonna need a new version of that” or “we need new this” or “that’s gross now. We should—” The washcloths I never did. They are grey. Every—well, we’ve lost most of them. They’re grey. They’re the kind of things that you get out of the dryer and the moment they hit water in the tub they smell right away. They are disgusting. So… basically I am failing at providing a clean environment for my child to be clean. And ask me if I did anything to rectify this after noticing it. No! Gabe? Ohhhh! No! I’m horrible! Gabe’s giving me—he gave me a head shake along with the thumbs down.
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Thanks for saying I’m doing a great job, Biz, because I’m calling with a fail! So one of my daughters brought home a can of off-brand silly string from school today and was spraying it around and it was kind of fun and I read the instructions before we sprayed it at any person. And the instructions say to be sure to peel it off if it got on someone. In case it was absorbent fabric. Blah, blah. Whatever. So we’re having fun. I spray it on one of my daughters, who is—incidentally—wearing her favorite dress. Yeah, you know where this is going.
biz
Oh yeah, I do.
caller
It didn’t wanna come off. So I’m sitting here picking off the off-brand silly string. Meticulously. After having run it through the washing machine and it not coming off at all. So I feel like this is my penance for just trying to be silly and have fun with my kids. But now I’m… picking off the stupid stuff from her dress. Anyway! [Biz laughs.] Generally I think I am doing a great job, but at this moment? Not so much! Pretty—pretty—just feeling like failure. Anyway. At least it’s sunny out. So that’s nice. Alright! Thanks again for the show and everything you do. I really appreciate it. Bye.
biz
Wow. Yeah. First off, mega fail trying to have fun with your kid. Have we not learned over the years that that is a recipe for disaster? Also, I like that you keep referring to it as off-brand silly string? Because, y’know, name-brand silly string is just such—like, a higher quality. Obviously. It’s not! It’s not at all. All silly string is basically the same poison fun spray that we love to use. And I—[Laughs.] I also like that you’re calling it your penance. That you’re in some sort of, y’know, silly string purgatory and if you pick off, y’know, ten silly strings all is forgiven. Well,, you’re doing a horrible job having fun! I hope you marked this day down in your calendar.
music
“Mom Song” by Adira Amram. Mellow piano music with lyrics. You are the greatest mom I’ve ever known. I love you, I love you. When I have a problem, I call you on the phone. I love you, I love you. [Music fades out.]
music
Mellow synth music plays in background.
biz
One Bad Mother is supported by Caliper CBD. Let’s talk about CBD! Caliper’s CBD powder is the only clinically-proven, fast-acting CBD, delivering thirty times more CBD in the first thirty minutes versus CBD oil. I personally have started using CBD since the pandemic started. Surprise! And I take one packet—which is twenty milligrams—and mix it into my strawberry ice cream! [Laughs.] Then I eat it around—after dinner. And then it just kinda helps me feel relaxed! And it helps me… get to sleep a little easier. It’s great because it’s THC-free. There’s no high. I’m really just getting the relaxing benefits that I was looking for. Get 20% off your first order when you use promo code “badmother” at TryCaliper.com/badmother. You can try Caliper’s CBD risk-free for thirty days. If you don’t love it, they’ll give you a full refund! That’s TryCaliper.com/badmother. And don’t forget the promo code “badmother” for 20% off your first order. [Music fades out.]
promo
Music: Sophisticated electronic/string music. Teresa McElroy: Shmanners. Noun. Definition: rules of etiquette designed not to judge others, but rather to guide ourselves through everyday social situations. [Music stops.] Travis McElroy: Hello, internet! I’m your husband host, Travis McElroy. Teresa: And I’m your wife host, Teresa McElroy. Travis: Every week on Shmanners, we take a look at a topic that has to do with society or manners. We talk about the history of it. We take a look at how it applies to everyday life. And we take some of your questions. And sometimes, we do a biography about a really cool person that had an impact on how we view etiquette. [Music fades back in.] Travis: So, join us every Friday and listen to Shmanners on MaximumFun.org, or wherever podcasts are found. Teresa: Manners shmanners. Get it? [Music ends on a bright chord.]
promo
Janet Varney: Hey. I’m Janet Varney, host of The JV Club podcast. [School bell rings. The muffled sounds of talking in the hallway.] Janet: Ah, high school. Was it a time of adventure, romance, and discovery? Speaker 1: [Cheering.] Class of ’95! We did iiiit! Janet: Or— [Rain sound effect.] Janet: A time of angst, disappointment, and confusion? Speaker 2: We’re all tied together by four years of trauma, at this place, but enjoy adulthood, I guess! [A chorus of boos.] Janet: The truth is? It was both! Music: Bouncy music fades in. Janet: So, join me on The JV Club podcast, where I invite some great friends, like Kristen Bell, Angela Kinsey, Oscar Nunez, Neil Patrick Harris, Keegan-Michael Key, to talk about high school: the good, the bad, and everything in between. Speaker 3: My teenage mood swings are [voice dropping into something gruff and aggressive] gettin’ harder to manage! Janet: The JV Club. Find it on Maximum Fun. [Music fades out.]
biz
Okay, everybody. Let’s settle in. I have a note about today’s rant. They are… very sad. To the point where it may be difficult to understand what they’re saying. But I know what they’re saying. And so let’s settle in and listen to this mom have a breakdown.
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] [Thick sobs obscure much of what she says.] This is a rant. [Inaudible] Coffee drive-through and get myself some coffee. He wouldn’t stop crying and I had to come home. And I just want [inaudible] without listening to [inaudible]. And I tried to go for a walk this morning and we got like [inaudible] and he just started crying again and I had to listen to him cry the whole way home. [Sobs.] I just wanna leave the house. I don’t even care where we go. I just don’t wanna listen to a baby cry. He’s crying, as you can probably hear. So I should go get him.
biz
First of all, you’re doing a really good job. I understand everything you said. Because I have lived every thing you said. For those who had a hard time hearing, she has a baby who cries every time they—like, everywhere—like, all the time! Let’s just say it! All the fucking time. You put ‘em in the car and they start crying. You try and go to the store, they’re crying. You go for a walk, they’re crying. It’s like—there’s no rhyme or reason to it. They just cry all the time. We all know—I’ve overly shared—that that was Ellis. And… that sort of constant exposure to crying—and really… a seemingly-endless array of attempts to find a way to soothe the baby—it is… it’s like… a next-level exhaustion. I am—I mean, I—it can make the most mentally strong person become insane. And I’m not saying that loosely. I—I mean, there’s no question that that played a huge part into my postpartum and my depression and my need to get help. And I know that I probably should have started seeking that help a lot earlier. But like, that crying? There are still times I hear it in the house. After, y’know, long after that’s not something that he does anymore. It’s like imprinted itself in the walls. And I say this because, y’know, all babies cry. And all babies are so… I had so much surprising stress and emotional, y’know, just… [sighs.] Overrun states of being. But if you’re in that special club—and look, there are a lot of special clubs out there. Y’know. The biting club. The—y’know. And we just had that woman who called in last week whose kids—that were all over the age of five—just suddenly started pooping in their pants! Right? I mean, there’s all kind of clubs. But the always-crying club… is one that I am part of, so I can just tell you I really see you? I know how tired you are. I know how frayed you are. It’s real. It's a real sensation that you’re sitting in. And I think you are doing a really remarkable job. You really have this. Oh my gosh. That was a delight! Speaking with Neil Katcher. And I hope you all enjoyed all of the very mortifying poetry that I have shared on the show. Some of it didn’t make it into the show. Maybe I’ll just let Gabe add that to the end of this show as a little post-credit bonus. [Laughs.] What I liked about talking with Neil and about both of the podcasts, Ooh You’re In Trouble! and Mortified is that it just reminds us—again! It’s just another reminder of how un-alone we are? Is that a word? How not alone we all are? How—[Laughs.] It serves as a good reminder that our kids are probably doing very cringeworthy things. Right now. As we speak. And yeah, it’s probably alright. We can only hope that they will all grow up to be brave enough to share it with strangers to help work through it! I just—I just love it! Everybody? You’re doing a remarkable job. It is summer. If you’re like me there’s very little to do and it’s hot. And… I know that with summer—especially after a year of the pandemic without regular childcare and without work for so many of us being so fucked up, and now it’s summer—like, I—it—it’s a really weird stressful time on top of just having kids in your house. So I really—I really want you to know that I see you and that you are doing such a good job. Let’s go out and see each other. And I will talk to you next week! Byeeee!
music
“Mama Blues” by Cornbread Ted and the Butterbeans. Strumming acoustic guitar with harmonica and lyrics. I got the lowdown momma blues Got the the lowdown momma blues Gots the lowdown momma blues The lowdown momma blues. Gots the lowdown momma blues Got the lowdown momma blues You know that’s right. [Music fades somewhat, plays in background of dialogue.]
biz
We’d like to thank MaxFun; our producer, Gabe Mara; our husbands, Stefan Lawrence and Jesse Thorn; our perfect children, who provide us with inspiration to say all these horrible things; and of course, you, our listeners. To find out more about the songs you heard on today’s podcast and more about the show, please go to MaximumFun.org/onebadmother. For information about live shows, our book and press, please check out OneBadMotherPodcast.com.
theresa
One Bad Mother is a member of the Maximum Fun family of podcasts. To support the show go to MaximumFun.org/donate. [Music continues for a while before fading out.]
music
A cheerful ukulele chord.
speaker 2
Comedy and culture.
speaker 3
Artist owned—
speaker 4
—Audience supported.
biz
I’m just gonna do the first paragraph of this story that I typed on a typewriter. [Neil laughs.] And—wow. [Dramatic guitar music plays.] Once upon a time there was a young girl on the verge of womanhood. [Neil laughs.] For her sixteenth birthday was only weeks away. Her name was Catherine. She was very funny and sweet. And truly cared for all. She had long, soft brown hair; a warm, dark complexion; a slender figure full of grace; and deep blue eyes. One day she met a handsome young man who she thought was Mr. Perfect. He was tall with blonde hair. Wealthy. A senior at a private school. And… eighteen. And his name was Frank. I’m gonna leave it there, everybody. [Laughs.]
neil
Were you that girl?
biz
I’m pretty sure I was that girl. And I’m pretty sure it doesn’t end in my favor. [Neil laughs.] That’s for sure. There’s a lot of like—the overriding theme of my ninth-grade work and high school work was “Nobody knows how great I am and they’re really missing the fuck out.” [Laughs.]
neil
They don’t know how deep—yeah. I went—that was my entire childhood. “You have no idea how deep I am.” Which, in retrospect, I’m not sure I was correct. [Biz laughs.]
About the show
One Bad Mother is a comedy podcast hosted by Biz Ellis about motherhood and how unnatural it sometimes is. We aren’t all magical vessels!
Join us every week as we deal with the thrills and embarrassments of motherhood and strive for less judging and more laughing.
Call in your geniuses and fails: 206-350-9485. For booking and guest ideas, please email onebadmother@maximumfun.org. To keep up with One Bad Mother on social media, follow @onebadmothers on Twitter and Instagram.
Get in touch with the show
onebadmother@maximumfun.org
@OneBadMothers
@onebadmothers
How to listen
Stream or download episodes directly from our website, or listen via your favorite podcatcher!
