Transcript
biz ellis
Hi. I’m Biz.
theresa thorn
And I’m Theresa.
biz
Due to the pandemic, we bring you One Bad Mother straight from our homes—including such interruptions as: children! Animal noises! And more! So let’s all get a little closer while we have to be so far apart. And remember—we are doing a good job.
music
“Summoning the Rawk” by Kevin MacLeod. Driving electric guitar and heavy drums. [Continues through dialogue.]
biz
This week on One Bad Mother—Papa, Papa, and baby make three! We talk with Tyler Greene, host of the podcast This Is My Family. Plus, Biz is wistful.
crosstalk
Biz and caller: Wooooo!
caller
And here’s a check-in! It is after midnight and I am at work because I make food and I have dough that has to rise before I can put it in the fridge. And because my husband works out of the home in our business all day, the only time I get to do my work is after the kids are in bed. So here I am. And also we have a leak in our laundry room and so we’re gonna have people in our home all week fixing it. And no laundry machine. So. That’s how I’m doing. And I’m doing okay. And I’m not having a breakdown. [Biz laughs quietly.] At this moment. You are doing a great job. And… everybody out there is also doing a great job getting through one day. And then the next day will come and you will also get through that day. Bye.
biz
Oh. I love it when you guys say, “Yeah, I’m okay.” ‘Cause we all—right? We’re all aware that “okay” is code for “total shitshow.” [Laughs.] You’re doing such a good job! And also I see you. I see you with the having to work after the kids go to bed. This is—that’s when I edit. That is—for years, of this show in particular, doing One Bad Mother—I did all the work at night when my brain wasn’t there. And so I get it. Or, y’know, any of the stuff that we wanna do, we wind up doing after the kids go to bed. And I get it. Y’know. It’s one of those things where it’s like, I understand why—but I also don’t like it. [Laughs.] So, eh. Also—ooh. Leak in the laundry room. I’m sorry. That’s enough right there to not be okay. That’s enough right there for a full-fledged breakdown if it was me. So I think you’re doing remarkable. You really, really are. I hope you’re listening to good, fun stuff at midnight. Favorite song? Podcast? Whatever. Whatever you wanna do. Whatever you need. But I see you. You’re amazing. Also amazing are all the people that I wanna thank because this pandemic is still going. And probably a ton of people that I will forget to thank, but here we go! I just—as always—need to take some time to say thank you. And this week, once again, I am gonna lead with vaccine givers. Thank you, vaccine givers! And it’s not just the people poking you with the vaccine. It’s the people who are checking you in; helping you navigate. Sometimes these things are set up in parking lots or they’re set up in schools and so you’ve got people sort of all along the way helping you get to where you’re going. They speak multiple languages to help with people who don’t speak English, which is just remarkable. And I… I just wanna say thank you! And I look forward to the day when you poke me! I really am. I wanna thank all the people who are out there swabbing noses! That’s not fun. I mean, you guys—when I’m getting swabbed, I’m like, “Is this the weirdest job ever?” And like, you’re always like, “Oh, no, it’s great!” And I’m like, “I dunno. I dunno. You’re swabbing my nose and I just laughed right in your face ‘cause it tickles when I get swabbed.” But thank you. Thank you for doing those tests and all the people who work in the labs verifying those tests. Excellent, excellent job. [Singing] Healthcare workers? I’ll always love youuuu! [Regular voice] You’ll never be able to do anything that’ll make me stop loving you. You are wonderful. Teachers, I love you. Retail. I love you. Grocery stores, all the people who are working in places that we have to go to to get stuff to get through a week or a month? Thank you. And thank you—like—people in the service industry. Restaurants are starting to open back up, as well as hotels. As well as all these things in which—"oh, a fun summer job!” Or, “hey, I’m making a real career out of this.” But none of those were ever supposed to be potentially life-threatening. And yet—thank you for bringing me a Coke. What am I saying? I don’t go out to eat. I’ll never leave my house again. But! [Laughs.] For those of you who do? You gotta really make sure you are seeing those people who are working to serve you. And I’m actually gonna give an extra little shoutout to all of you in the One Bad Mother private Facebook group as well as all the sub-groups? Both the members and the moderators. You guys are doing such an amazing job of just being an example of making an effort to just be better at the really hard stuff. And I see you trying to do so with grace and kindness. Even when we step in it. You’re just doing a great job. Thank you.
biz
How am I? Let me check in. I’m in one of those windows of not feeling seen. [Laughs.] Ehhhh, [in tragic voice] “No one knows what I did! I make this house so nice!” Right? Like [Laughs humorlessly.] [Regular voice] And with that comes the sadness, or maybe the sadness triggered the unseen-ness. But y’know, it’s just that cycle. It’s that pandemic cycle. But here’s something new and fun! That ripped open a new feeling I hadn’t had. Or maybe I’ve had it. Just it hadn’t surfaced. And that was that feeling of… what I gave up. When I had a family. And I don’t mean the performing or the [cool voice] staying out late at night being really cool! [Regular voice] I mean wandering. I was talking about this with my therapist. I really love change. And I used to wander a lot. I lived in lots of different places. I never signed a lease more than six months. I liked changing jobs. I mean, I liked it. That was not something that caused me anxiety; it actually sort of replenished me. [Laughs.] So it’s like that old saying, “All who wander are not lost.” Not lost. Not running. Just wandering! And I haven’t done that in so long. And I’m sad because I’m not sure I’m even brave enough to do it anymore? And… of course with the pandemic I can’t do it anymore. And y’know. I understand why I am no longer wandering. And I—it’s just one of those things like we say on the show—I get to be two things at once. I am really happy that I did make the choices I made to have a family. I love my family. I would not have gotten through this pandemic without this family. But I also miss wandering. And I get to have feelings about both. And that’s just—I guess—part of what it’s like being part of a family? Which I think ties in nicely today to what we are gonna be talking about with Tyler Greene of the podcast This Is My Family.
music
Banjo strums; cheerful banjo music continues through dialogue.
theresa
Please—take a moment to remember: If you’re friends of the hosts of One Bad Mother, you should assume that when we talk about other moms, we’re talking about you.
biz
If you are married to the host of One Bad Mother, we definitely are talking about you.
theresa
Nothing we say constitutes professional parenting advice.
biz
Biz and Theresa’s children are brilliant, lovely, and exceedingly extraordinary.
theresa
Nothing said on this podcast about them implies otherwise. [Banjo music fades out.] [Biz and Tyler repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss the weekly topic.]
biz
This week, we are welcoming Tyler Greene, who is a storyteller, producer, and connector who currently serves as the Head of Community for Pod People, a podcast production company and staffing agency for audio professionals. No wonder you and Gabe know each other! Anyway. [Laughs.] He used to work in live events for NPR, WBEZ Chicago, and The Moth, and served as the House Manager for Wait, Wait, Don’t Tell Me. We’re gonna have to later talk about personal life goals. Okay? On the side, Tyler works as a producer, storytelling coach, and story editor, as well as hosts his own podcast called This Is My Family, which is really what we wanna get into with Tyler today. Welcome, Tyler!
tyler greene
Thank you! It’s so nice to meet you! I love your energy. And like… I hit that two o’clock slump and now I’m back. It’s good.
biz
Oh, good. I’m gonna just raise you up!
crosstalk
Tyler: [Singing] You raised me up! Biz: And when this is all—
biz
When this is all over? I just cry for like an hour. So don’t worry.
tyler
Oh. Okay.
biz
I just—[pretends to sob.] Before we get started, I wanna ask you what we ask all our guests, which is—who lives in your house?
tyler
So we just moved to a new house. But we didn’t gain any people or lose any people. [Biz laughs.] I just feel like that’s significant to identify. For me, maybe, only. My first single-family home since I was a kid! So—
crosstalk
Biz: [Cheers] That’s exciting! Tyler: That is very exciting.
tyler
Yeah. It’s huge. It’s really huge. Yeah. I mean, we’re in the suburbs, so that’s, y’know. What are ya gonna do.
biz
That’s its own thing.
tyler
San Jose. There’s all suburbs. But the question is who’s in my house. It is myself, obviously. Then my husband, Ziwu, and our child, Sam.
biz
Let’s talk about the show to start off with. ‘Cause I think that’s going to obviously lead us in to all of the different things. Like, how did a kid wind up in your house? [Tyler laughs.] How did you get your kid?
tyler
A stork!
biz
That’s right! The podcast is This Is My Family. Talk to me about starting—like, why’d ya wanna do it? What led to it? Tell me, tell me.
tyler
Well first of all, thank you for having me on this show. I like to talk to people in my closet and it’s one of my favorite things. [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.] So I’m so happy to be here with you. But the podcast is called This Is My Family, as you said. And somewhere in the pandemic—so a theme of this conversation will be that Tyler cannot remember dates or numbers very well. So I will say something that may not be true on that front. But near the beginning of the pandemic, I realized that—and I hadn’t gotten this job at Pod People yet and I was sort of running my own business and kind of had a couple clients. But I said to myself that I was kinda bored and I wanted to make something. And I had been having conversations with a friend of mine who’s like a theme park designer and obviously she wasn’t working. She was talking to me and not doing much work out in the world at the beginning of the pandemic. [Biz laughs.] And long story short we were gonna make a murder mystery party or something and then I was like, Zoom party or something, and I said, “Y’know, I’ve been thinking about making a show so that I could host again.” I’d hosted a few things half a decade ago. And I said, “Do y’all just wanna help me make that?” And Jackie is her name. She said yes. And then my friend Trisha, who’s also a producer, said yes. And basically we started developing this show. Which—I didn’t know what it was gonna be. I wanted to have a show called Performance Anxiety where I interview artists about their anxiety. Cute title, right?
biz
Yeah! It’s adorable.
tyler
And my friend Trisha, who’s amazing—she is one of those people that you sit in a room with her for fifteen minutes and she will just change your life. Change your creative idea. Make it sing. [Biz laughs.] Make it marketable. The whole thing. And she said, “Well, the thing that’s true for you that is unique to you is your family.” And I said, “I don’t know if I wanna do a podcast about my family every day.” I mean, you put so many hours into this stuff. And eventually I gave into her because I realized that our story is incredible. And also a jumping-off point for discussing what family means to people. Because family means so many things. Chosen family. Your—we just—we’re working on an episode right now about recovery family. Al-Anon and AA and just the bonds that make you. And it just became this really interesting and fertile ground to play in because I can talk about my story and then just sit here and have these 90-minute conversations that are super vulnerable. We cry every episode. [Biz laughs.] It’s great! And gives something to people! And I’m still nervous and shaky around the idea of doing a podcast about my family. Sometimes I just wanna do a movie podcast? Where I talk about shitty movies or something?
biz
Yeah! I do a parenting podcast and I hate parenting? [Tyler laughs.] Like, I hate all things parenting? So I totally understand. Sometimes I’m like, “Can we just talk about Supernatural? Like, do a minute-by-minute of a Supernatural episode?” I am 100%—
tyler
Anything else. [Laughs.]
biz
Yeah. Anything else! Yeah! “Anything else than this nightmare!” No, I’m just kidding. No! But I get it. It would be fun sometimes to just… do something else. Because I think when you are doing a podcast about family or parenting or anybody that you have relationships with? It is a… a tightrope that you really have to be mindful of as you’re walking it. You were saying the notion of family. And exploring that. And I think—you said there’s such a broad—so many variations on what family can mean. But I don’t think we all come to that right away. I think… that… family is tied up in a lot of outdated sort of notions about a man and a woman and children. And that is family. And strangely? They’re always white. [Laughs.] Just like—and anything that differs from that is strange or weird or couldn’t be something “I could relate to.” When it comes to family. So can we start there? Can we talk a little bit about… what family means when you’re thinking about it?
tyler
Yeah. I mean, I think that another one of the reasons that I started this show was because—y’know, I have to, with any creative project, I have to have some sort of fire behind it or else I get very bored very quickly. And by the way, funded this myself. And so—it’s not a small amount of money that I used. Because this show is high quality. We have a composer. We have multiple producers. We wanted to make a really good show. And so for me, I think of some small moments. Where I’ve been in doctors’ offices and a nurse has said, “Where’s mom today?” And— [Biz laughs.] —y’know, and then you have the make the phone call to the line—whatever they call “Customer Success Representative” or whatever the hell it means. Patient Success Representative. And have this sometimes patient conversation and sometimes very impatient and not very kind conversation with people about assumptions that they make. And at the same time, I also grew up in Southwest Michigan. And so I—which is in a very small town. And Michigan now is super conservative and at the time I think it probably was as well. And so I guess—and I came out late, and so I can also understand and relate to people who are sort of having this experience of what, y’know, a “traditional” family might be. Because that’s what I saw! I didn’t—nothing else was sort of taught to me. But then when you start thinking about what family is—what is family, right? Because not everybody has a mom and dad. Some people have a grandpa or a grandma. Some people have none of those things. Some people have a single parent. Some people don’t have kids at all. And some people have left their family because it is not safe for them anymore and they have a chosen family. We talk to a lot of drag queens on my podcast and, thankfully, Latrice Royale was our first and I mean, you don’t really need many more than that because she’s one of the greatest in the world. And she opened her soul to me and—
biz
Oh, babies! [Laughs.]
tyler
It was just amazing and she grew up in Compton in a very dangerous part of Compton. And told the story of how she eventually was sort of forced out of the closet and had to leave and found this new artistic family and then finds a way back to her original family and now is one of the biggest drag queens in the world. Married to a gentleman who was born in the Smoky Mountains. Who I just interviewed for season two. And so now I’ve got both of their stories. Their stories are important and their stories matter, too. And… family, to me, if I’m gonna define it? Is… it’s love. It’s the relationships in our lives that give us something more than just the everyday. And I think that’s the first time I’ve used that definition— [Biz laughs.] —and I’m not really sure I know what it means now that it came out of my mouth?
caller
Tyler: But does any of that make sense? [Laughs.] Biz: Or even if it’s—no!
biz
I guess it does. I really like the idea of… leading with the notion of family as being… groups of people that you love and that love you. Regardless of what that makeup is. Regardless of their being, y’know, familial ties or any of that. So I—tell us about your family!
tyler
Yeah. I just thought of something really quick. Which is that—
biz
Oh! Then tell me.
tyler
Which is that the beautiful—we talk about the beautiful, messy connections that shape our lives. That’s—it’s kind of the formal marketing speak? But I love that—
biz
That’s a good one! [Laughs.]
tyler
“Beautiful, messy” is so great. And that’s another Trisha creation. Trisha Bobeda. Hat tip to her. And now I’ve forgotten your question. [Laughs.]
caller
Biz: It’s okay. I dunno. Tyler: What was the question again?
biz
Tell me about your family. Tell me your beautiful, messy connection.
tyler
Back in 1984, I was born. [Biz laughs.] To a woman named Penny Sue and a man named Jimbo. That’s not a lie, actually. [Laughs.]
biz
I don’t care that much. [Laughs.]
tyler
That is the truth.
biz
Oh, I love it!
tyler
No, I mean my family story is crazy. And I don’t know that that’s the one—my full story for this show. But my husband and I were married in 2015. And we’ve been together since January 8th, 2012. So we’ve been together for almost nine years. Ten years this upcoming year.
biz
Oh, congratulations!
tyler
Thank you! And we had our baby Sam two years ago. Almost two years ago. He’ll be two in a couple weeks. And we had him via surrogacy. My sister is our egg donor. My husband is our seed donor. Sperm donor? Seed donor? I don’t know. Sperm donor? I can never be mature about the word “sperm!”
crosstalk
Tyler: It’s ridiculous. I am a 36— Biz: I can’t either. It’s—sperm is—I’m with you.
tyler
How old am I? [Laughs.] I don’t even know how old I am. 36? 7? I dunno. 36.
biz
Ten more than that, and I still have the sense of humor of a 12-year-old adolescent from the ‘80s. Right? Like, I’m like, [shrieks] “Semen!” Anyway.
tyler
Best decade. Yes. ‘80s or ‘90s, best decade. I dunno. But anyway. So we—that’s sort of the basic arrangement of the Sam. And we needed somebody to carry Sam. My sister offered to, but I just sort of—I dunno. I just didn’t really want that and she’s a busy ER nurse. She’s got five kids of her own. I just sort of wanted somebody else to do that. So—
biz
Wow. She’s good. [Laughs.]
tyler
Yeah. She’s fertile and—yeah. She’s—she’s amazing. And so we—[sighs]. I’m trying to get my timeline here. We went to—
biz
You don’t have to worry about timelines on this show. We will imagine whatever you want us to imagine.
tyler
Okay, good. We went to a conference called Men Having Babies at some point. And it is called Men Having Babies, yes. We can [inaudible] and talk about that, yes.
biz
That is the best name for a conference. I would just wanna go. And see what was at the booths. I would be so—what’s the bag that you get when you get there?
tyler
And you get bags. You get lots of bags.
biz
I bet you do! [Laughs.]
tyler
There’s all kinds of wares that they’re selling. You basically go there to figure out—figure it out, first of all. So the first year we did it was just like, “Whoa.” And we—y’know, you find the IVF clinic where you do the actual transfer of the embryo. Well, the making of the embryo and the transfer of the embryo. And then talk to surrogacy agencies for people who will carry your child. You talk to doctors. You talk to lawyers. You talk to anybody who will take your money. And so that’s what we did the first year, and I remember we met—we didn’t meet, but we watched one of these panels. And there were these two kids who were twins that were created using the same egg donor, but two different sperm. And they were living, breathing children. They were four or five. [Biz laughs.] And I’d gone into that first conference being like, “I don’t wanna do this. I’d rather adopt.” I actually didn’t even really want babies. My husband is from China and family is really crucial to his way of seeing the world and so he was like—we got into some—y’know, not—some arguments, but some hefty discussions about it. Because it’s a big deal! And I saw those kids and I was like, “Wow. If we have the opportunity and the privilege to create a biological child that—” My sister basically looks like me except she has long hair and boobs? Sometimes I say—well, they’re big. [Laughs.] I was gonna say “gigantic boobs.” [Biz laughs.] And if you—
biz
[Singing] Here we are! We’re 12 years old again! Go ahead. [Laughs.]
tyler
[Laughs.] She is gonna kill me. But yeah. I said, y’know, I look in the mirror and I’m like, “Wow. I look like my sister. And if we can make that, that would be pretty awesome!” And we—so we did it. We said, “Okay, we’re gonna do this.” And then years later we went back to Men Having Babies and we found a surrogacy agency that we really liked in downtown Chicago where we once were. Now we’re in California.
biz
So we found the surrogate.
tyler
Yes. Mm-hm.
biz
Now… how was that? Is that super normal and casual? Or like—
tyler
She was hiding in the alley and we just said—[Laughs.] No, I’m kidding.
biz
No, but I’m like—that—
tyler
“Do you like Drag Race? Good. We’re in.”
biz
Yeah. Okay. We’re good. That’s right. So—
tyler
It’s funny, actually. We—so the head of the agency—y’know, they send you these profiles and you look at them and you read them and I said, “Our only requirement—” And this was at the height of the Trump era. “Our only requirement—two requirements. One is that they not be a Trump supporter, number one. And number two, they should be near a major airport.” And so I think they sent us—the first one they sent us, the person was like five hours away from an airport. And I was like, “Ya didn’t listen.” [Laughs.]
biz
That’s not even—yeah.
tyler
No. It was not even close. It was like, “Would you like to drive five hours from the Boulder Airport to pick up your child?” No. I would not like to mountaineer before greeting my son. And so… the… they sent us another one. I think ti was the second one and it was this person named Emily. And so we get on a—it wasn’t even Zoom. It was a Skype, I think. And it was just the most amazing conversation. I describe Emily and her husband Dylan as a couple straight out of Friday Night Lights. [Biz gasps.] They are—she is extremely sweet. Young. She’s had five babies of her own. Two through surrogacy. Again, with number I think that might actually be four. But she’s had a lot of babies. Very successful at that. Dylan is like a linebacker of a human with a voice of an angel. [Biz laughs.] And he’s—the tenderness of an angel. It’s crazy. I was like, “I will take you anywhere ‘cause you will kick somebody’s ass for me and then figure out how to make it not illegal. ‘Cause you’re just that kind of a person.” Yeah.
biz
That’s what you want! That’s what you want!
tyler
You need that. So we met them and they were beautiful and amazing and I remember asking, like, “Why do you wanna do this?” And she very quickly said, “Because I couldn’t imagine having this—I couldn’t imagine not being able to have my own children. And I want to help you do that.” And it was such a simple answer? And like… maybe a little schmaltzy of an answer now that I know how hard it is? But she—[Laughs.]
biz
Yeah! Well I’m like—my jaded soul is like, “What?!” [Tyler laughs.]
tyler
But she’s—I’m telling you! Friday Night Lights. And it’s totally genuine. It’s like… she’s sort of like—her essence is a little Chicken Soup for the Soul kind of essence. And I read all the Chicken Soup for the Soul when I was a kid. I’m not ashamed. [Biz laughs.] And anyway. So we loved her, and we said, “You’re hired!” And then there’s a bunch of contracts and exchange of money and escrow where you put your money in and then they, y’know, lawyers and all that jazz.
biz
Thank goodness for that conference. [Laughs.]
tyler
Yes! Thank goodness for the internet and for the conference. I mean, I wouldn’t have known how to do it. And for us, honestly, it was… relatively easy. Again, I used the word “privilege” before because it’s a very expensive process? We’ve been very fortunate to be able to fund it? But there are people who aren’t who can’t or—and I know there’s programs and things for people if they’re listening to this and they’re thinking they’re interested in that, there are ways to make it happen. So I don’t think you have to make cost a barrier if you want to do it this way. But we were really lucky. And I forgot—I was about to say we were really lucky for another reason. Oh yeah! We didn’t have any complications! [Biz laughs.] At all! During the process! It was very… it was very painless. And one of the episodes of our podcast, I interview Shereen Marisol Meraji from Code Switch, and she’s been having some challenges with IVF. And digging into that conversation. Y’know, we go into the waiting rooms and there are people there who are just really, truly desperate to have a child and can’t. And we’re walking in there, running around with our ragtag crew and not having any issues. And so I’m always aware of that. It’s always in the back of my mind as I talk about this.
biz
Yeah. Well I think that that ties into sort of that—we talk a lot on the show about women, in particular, when it comes to babies and bodies, get a lot of it. Y’know. And… “When are you having a baby? Well you’re not a family until you have a baby! And then once you have that baby I’m gonna ask you all sorts of invasive questions about, ‘Do you like that it’s a boy? Do you like that it’s a girl? Do you want a boy and a girl? Now you’ve got the set!’” Right? Like, all this really weird stuff. And it’s—I’ve never heard anybody say, “Y’know what? I love getting asked that question. Because it doesn’t churn up a lot of horrible feelings in me.” Right? Like—[Laughs.] [Tyler laughs.] And so I guess I wanna know—now that you’ve been doing this show for a while, has there been any conversation that surprised you, or are you super great about knowing how every family works? [Laughs.]
tyler
Well, I’m not super great at that. No. But I am super intentional in our programming, or attempts at programming, our seasons. We do eight to ten episodes. This is our second season; we’re doing ten. First one we did eight. And so we’re very conscious about race, gender, type of family. And y’know I’m sure we could even do better as the chips fall in season two. We’ll see—y’know. But that’s a part of my process, always, in everything that I do. Just making sure that as many people as possible are brought into the room and have the opportunity. Y’know. Again—I think I am a white man and I have, y’know, I came from a small town and yes. I am gay. But I also present as just very sort of normal white guy. So I get a lot of things because of that. And I’m very aware of that. So I like to use this show as an opportunity to kind of just expand the definition. And so I’m not sure. I’m struggling a little bit to think of if I was—I don’t know that I’ve been confused or caught off-guard by somebody’s approach, but I recently had a conversation with my pal Emilie Modaff and they are a mystic, Reiki, actor, amazing person who—they also practice polyamory. And so I was very curious about polyamory. In theory, sounds great! And so I was sort of like, “I would like to know more about how that goes!”
biz
This is not how that sounds for me! I’m like, “Oh my god!”
tyler
I mean, maybe not “great,” but intriguing. And—
biz
Right. Sure, sure. [Laughs.]
tyler
And so like—[Laughs.] Thankfully, I know Emily well! And so I was able to say to them, like, “I need you to just break this down for me. How does it go?” And then they told me everything! And so— [Biz laughs.] —that was one where I was like, “Okay.” And I think our listeners will enjoy it? But it—y’know. I think one of the challenges with the show—and I think this is actually kind of the question—I think about this question a lot in terms of the challenge of the show. Which is that I’ve had marketers tell me—or marketing people or even big-concept people at big companies. Y’know. “If you wanna make your show a thing that pays for itself, you should focus on queer families.” For example. For example. Right? Or “You should make it all about your family and make it a narrative show all about your family. Or you should just focus on queer families.” And these are queer people who are smart. Who I like. Who are good people. And they’re probably not wrong, in a marketing sense? [Biz laughs.] ‘Cause it’s a little hard to talk about your show when you’re trying to include everyone? But I am insistent on that. Because, I think, for me—I mean, I love my queer family. And I think that if I could do a whole season of this show about drag queens—and in fact, I’ve actually thought about changing the show to This Is My Drag Family. Because every conversation I have with a drag queen is just unbelievably and moving and powerful and humane and there’s still that question—that fire in me that I talked about before—that’s like, “Okay, but somebody’s not hearing themselves in this. Probably.” And so that just motivates me to try to find as many stories as possible so that the end of three, four, five seasons—however long we go with this thing—we have a beautiful poster of people that look differently and come from different places and have told us—y’know, we’ve cried every time! But the story has been different each time. But then that’s the thing! Is that the human emotion—that crying—is the same! So that’s the beauty. That’s kind of what we’re searching for. Yeah. Yeah.
biz
Well that’s the—the myth! The myth is that… everybody’s experiences are totally foreign. There’s only sort of one way, and this is how that’s supposed to be. And… what you discover, if you’re willing to ask questions or just listen, is that… there’re so many emotional moments that we share. Despite how our community looks. Right? Or how we engage with the world. Right? I always think in relation to parenting in particular, it amazes me that there is so much, like, parenting, like maliciousness. Y’know. Out there. When no one’s getting sleep. Everybody has been peed or pooped on. Like, y’know? Everybody’s had the kid—no matter how you got that kid in your house—
tyler
My son peed in my eye yesterday.
biz
Oh! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Oh.
tyler
And he’s almost two. So it was intentional.
crosstalk
Biz: Yeah. That’s—there was intent. Tyler: Little shit. [Laughs.]
biz
There was intent! Y’know? We’ve gotten the calls where there’s the puke in the ear and you can’t move or like you accidentally sneeze into your child’s mouth? I mean like— [Tyler laughs.] What I have learned in the almost-nine years of doing this show?
tyler
Oh, gross. [Laughs.]
biz
Is that no one is unique in whatever—whether you think it’s the worst thing you could ever have done. Right? Somebody else has done it. Everybody’s walked out—
tyler
Life advice. Oh my god. For everything! [Laughs.]
biz
So many people have walked out of the grocery store with a thing of milk in the bottom of the stroller they didn’t pay for ‘cause they forgot to take it out— [Tyler laughs.] —and ring it up! Right? Like so—
tyler
I’ve done that.
biz
I’ve—yeah! Who hasn’t done this? So I feel like—[Laughs.] I feel like there is—what’s so nice about expanding that notion to families and to experiences and why we should have every voice we can find sharing it, is that it expands people who don’t have the opportunity for exposure to more than what their community is? To see that there’s normalcy and that there’s something relatable to that. And make it less… y’know… scary. Or whatever. Because that just leads to garbage. [Laughs.]
tyler
Yeah. Yeah. I just love, too, that like… people—for example, some people listened to this conversation with Shereen that I talked about earlier, and it’s about IVF and the challenges with having a baby that way for some folks. And I have people who come and write these emails to me and they’re just so moved and thankful that I created this space—that Shereen created this space—and then those same people are giving me comments on, y’know, Latrice Royale, drag queen. Like… or, y’know, Sharon Salzberg, meditation teacher. Talking about spiritual families. And like… it’s amazing to me. And it’s the thing that I said to those, y’know, people who know what they’re talking about. I said, “I know you know what you’re talking about, but I’m gonna do this other thing.” And every mentor that I’ve ever had would be—if they’re listening to this right now they’d be laughing hysterically. Because that’s sort of [through laughter] what, historically, I’ve done?
biz
You’ve done, yeah! [Laughs.]
tyler
Although now I’m kind of tired, so now I’m just sort of like, “Okay, fine, I’ll do that.” [Biz laughs.] “Sure. That’s good.”
biz
Thank you so much for coming on and sharing not only your story, but some of the experiences that have been shared with you through this podcast, This Is My Family. Again, I—everybody’s heard me say it a million times. The more we can normalize things by talking about it more and more and more and more and more, the less, “Woooo!” It is! I’m tired of, “Ooooh! What?!” I want more, “Yeah? So?” I want more of that.
tyler
“What did you have for lunch today?” Yeah.
biz
Yeah! “What did you have for lunch?” “Salad.” We are gonna make sure… that we link everyone up to where they can listen to your podcast. Not that we have to link it up. Everybody knows how to find a podcast now. But we will make sure that we include the link so it’s very easy for people to get to it. As well as anything else you think would be great for our listeners to know more about. Thank you so much, and I really am sending my best to you and your family.
tyler
Mm-hm. Thank you. I really appreciate this chance to chat with you on a Friday afternoon in my closet!
biz
Yeah! Any time! Any time. That—what would Fridays be?
tyler
Really. [Biz laughs.]
biz
Alright. Talk to you soon. Bye.
tyler
Thank you!
music
“Ones and Zeroes” by “Awesome.” Steady, driving electric guitar with drum and woodwinds. [Music fades out.]
music
Cheerful ukulele and whistling play in background.
theresa
One Bad Mother is supported in part by Dipsea. Dipsea is an audio app full of short, sexy stories designed to turn you on.
biz
Sign me up! I’d like to be turned on to eleven, everybody! Woo! Guys? [Theresa laughs.] I love this app. [Laughs.] So much. Each Dipsea story features characters that feel like real people and immersive scenarios so you feel like you are right there. What’s nice is you’ve got options to set your preferences. So not every story is you adrift at sea with a large group of sailors. [Laughs.] There is no better self-care than… self-care. Wink, wink. [Theresa laughs.]
theresa
So for listeners of One Bad Mother, Dipsea is offering a 30-day free trial when you go to DipseaStories.com/badmother.
theresa
Hey, you know what it’s time for! This week’s genius and fails! This is the part of the show where we share our genius moment of the week, as well as our failures, and feel better about ourselves by hearing yours. You can share some of your own by calling 206-350-9485. That’s 206-350-9485.
biz
Genius fail time, Theresa. Hello!
theresa
Hello!
biz
It’s so nice to see you.
theresa
You as well.
biz
I would like to request that you… genius me.
clip
[Dramatic, swelling music in background.] Biz: Wow! Oh my God! Oh my God! I saw what you did! Oh my God! I’m paying attention! Wow! You, mom, are a genius. Oh my God, that’s fucking genius! [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective genius moments of the week.]
theresa
I can do that. I… had my second pandemic birthday.
biz
Wooo!
theresa
This past week.
biz
[Singing] Yes, you didddd! Happy birthday to you! Duh-nuh-nuh-nuh-na-nuh! [Theresa laughs.] You say it’s your birthday! Dun-nuh-nuh-nuh-na-nuh! [Regular voice] It’s not my birthday. It is your birthday! [Laughs.]
theresa
Yeah! And there’s something—there’s something that felt good about it being— [Biz laughs.] —the second pandemic birthday. Like, the first pandemic birthday we were just a few days into the pandemic. Like, days. Like… three days into the shutdown. And I remember very well how I felt that day. [Biz laughs.]
biz
How was that? Did you—it was good?
theresa
It was pretty—honestly, it was pretty numb. Like, I just remember being like, “I know it’s my birthday and people are being nice to me, but I don’t feel anything right now.” Y’know? Except for, like, anxiety. Obviously.
biz
Yeah! Well I mean that was ramped up. Happy birthday!
theresa
Yeah!
biz
Here’s a—
theresa
Exactly.
biz
—cake of anxiety.
theresa
Right. And I mean, I’m glad that I didn’t even know what lay ahead for me. [Biz laughs.] At that point.
biz
That would’ve been a different cake gift.
theresa
That would’ve been a different type of… thing.
biz
Yeah. Like a brownie. Not really a cake.
theresa
But—yeah. [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.] But—so this week I also—it was a big birthday. I turned 40.
biz
Wooooo!
theresa
Yeah! And… I was happy on my birthday. I don’t… I don’t wanna try to explain it? I don’t need to have a reason. But it was definitely different from last birthday. And I definitely had a good day. And felt… felt like myself having a birthday and it was—it was great.
biz
I am so glad. You deserved this birthday.
theresa
Thank you.
biz
You have worked very hard and this is a very good birthday and I am so glad that this is more than just two birthdays. I’ve gotten to celebrate with you. Since knowing you.
theresa
Yeah.
biz
And 40? 40! Lordy, lordy! Lordy, lordy! Theresa’s 40! That’s what I say. [Theresa laughs.] That… is great. I have been thoroughly enjoying my 40s. So welcome to—this was the birthday that I think I’ve shared that my sister and I went to Spencer’s Gifts. And got a bunch of like Over the Hill presents. Y’know. Like, “It’s the black jelly! Over the Hill!” Right? For my poor mother. ‘Cause… we didn’t understand humor or anything.
theresa
Right.
biz
So happy birthday. You are doing a good job.
theresa
Thank you.
biz
So I’ve stopped watching Glee with Kat. [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] Because, like, three episodes in it was just…
theresa
It was too much?
biz
A lot of sexy, sexy sex! And like I said, we’re all cool with sex. But I think there is a—the humor on the show—there’s a little cruelty to it. There’s a little darkness to it. There is—which of course I find hilarious. And so when I am laughing at the humor coming from pain or whatever, it’s like… a weird situation to then look over at my tween and be like, “You don’t really understand why I’m laughing, and also—god. You just—you need some more foundation before you get into this.”
theresa
Well at least maybe they could enjoy it? But not with a parent? Like, watch it with a peer maybe and sort that out together? [Laughs.]
biz
Yeah! [Through laughter] That’s right! Work that out together, guys! Don’t work it out next to me.
theresa
Yeah. Or just experience it differently. Like, instead of— [Biz laughs.] —hearing their mom laugh and think, “Why—what’s funny?” Yeah.
biz
It’s funny that that girl has a red drink thrown in her face every episode. Because—[Laughs.] X, y, and z! Yeah. And then it’s no fun ‘cause it’s lots of speeches. By me. So… last night— [Theresa laughs.] —we sat down. Pulled up the TV again to find something to watch together. And Kat says, “What is that?” Pointing to America’s Funniest Home Videos. And that’s a perfect show. We watched—it’s like YouTube before there was YouTube. Y’know? I… thoroughly enjoy—just the utmost delight—people getting, like, nailed in the groin area. Right? Trying to be funny. [Theresa laughs.] Trying to be cool. Whatever. I enjoy cats being scared of cucumbers. I enjoy dogs attacking boxes. And of course, Kat loved it! Loved it! Ta. Da.
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Hi! I’m calling in a genius. My name’s Rochelle. And I’m sitting at a quiet dinner table by myself eating dinner. A nice and hot dinner. My toddler has locked himself in his room screaming that he doesn’t want dinner and that’s fine. My husband is taking care of that, so I’m just gonna enjoy a nice, quiet meal! Op! There we are! Well, it was a genius. [Biz laughs.] Thank you! Bye!
biz
Ugh. Look how fast! Look how fast it happened!
theresa
Well, we don’t necessarily know.
biz
We don’t know what happened on the other end of the “Oh.” But I will say, what happened fast. I should actually say that what happened so fast was you making the decision. Trying something different. Let’s remember last year’s theme was “Let’s try something different.” Instead of just trying to wait or make it better or absorb that energy, you just sat down and had your meal.
theresa
Yeah!
biz
No one’s going to therapy over that in the future. God! That is a great job!
theresa
And when you have babies and toddlers in your house… sometimes just somebody needs to eat.
biz
Yeah. Somebody needs to eat.
theresa
So y’know, sometimes it’s just acceptance. “I’ll just eat.” And then if by the time you’re done with your hot meal your toddler still isn’t feeling better, you can trade with your partner! And they can eat!
biz
They can eat! They can nuke that—you don’t have to be the one waiting for the second round. You get to be the first.
theresa
Yeah! You’re hungry!
biz
You’re hungry! You’re gonna need that strength. You gotta feed it. [Theresa laughs.] I think—[Laughs.] You’re doing a great job. And I hope it was fucking delicious. Failures!
clip
[Dramatic orchestral music plays in the background.] Theresa: [In a voice akin to the Wicked Witch of the West] Fail. Fail. Fail. FAIL! [Timpani with foot pedal engaged for humorous effect.] Biz: [Calmly] You suck! [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective failures of the week.]
biz
Fail me, Theresa.
theresa
Okay. So— [Biz laughs.] We are now on week two of me not acknowledging the existence of this most recent learning kit.
biz
Good job.
theresa
For Oscar’s remote schooling.
biz
So proud of you. [Laughs.]
theresa
If you didn’t listen to last week’s show, I just did not pick it up. I knew it was happening but I just wanted to believe I didn’t need to deal with it [through laughter] and that it would sort itself out somehow. [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.] So—[Laughs.] Yes? Do you have a question?
biz
Did you—since last week, have you been to the school for other reasons?
theresa
Yes.
biz
Okay. I just wanted to make sure. I just wanted to make sure. It didn’t hop in the car?
theresa
No! I mean, I don’t know why our personal concierge at the charter school— [Biz laughs.] —hasn’t chased us down with—y’know, whatever. Point being— [Biz laughs.] —yes. So Oscar is going back to in-person school two mornings a week. And I wanted to believe that somehow the school would manage to give him the learning kit while he was there. I didn’t ask anyone about that. I didn’t even request help with that. I just… hoped. Hoped it would happen. And of course it didn’t. And… then I’ve just continued to do nothing to the point where I got an email from his teacher today. [Through laughter] Which is like—I feel like it’s like the final sign of the depth of this fail is that now I’ve made the teacher have to do extra work? Because of… me not doing the work that I’m supposed to be doing? Saying, “I noticed you haven’t picked up the most recent learning kit.”
biz
Just one packet. [Laughs.]
theresa
“Oscar’s gonna need these worksheets. I am attaching them so you can print them.”
biz
Hey! Look!
theresa
Eh.
biz
It’s—did work itself out! You did not have to pick them up.
crosstalk
Biz: By the way, you should not be rewarded for that. [Laughs.] Theresa: Y’know… I have no—
theresa
I won’t be rewarded. It won’t be rewarded. I have—I also—there’s no indication in that email that what she was attaching was everything in the learning kit and that I no longer need the learning kit. I’m sure I need the learning kit. There’s whole workbooks in there. And stuff. Other stuff. Little—
biz
Probably money. Probably money. [Theresa laughs.] Probably—
theresa
Drugs.
biz
—a free pass to college. [Laughs.] I mean, like a coupon?
theresa
Marijuana gummies?
biz
Marijuana gummies. Those are probably in there. A lotta things you might want that you, y’know, they expire. Milk. There’s probably [through laughter] milk in there that you should’ve gotten?
theresa
Cigarettes.
biz
Cigarettes. Why are all the things on your list—
theresa
Beer. [Biz laughs.] [Laughs.] I don’t know. I’m just trying to think of funny stuff to be in a learning kit for a first-grader.
biz
That’s right. A one-way ticket to Hawaii for one adult. Mother. [Laughs.]
theresa
[Laughs.] A new puppy?
biz
Oh! I bet it’s a puppy!
theresa
It might be a puppy.
biz
That should’ve been picked up right away, Theresa.
crosstalk
Biz: That’s unfortunate. Can’t just leave a puppy. Theresa: Yeah. You’re not supposed to just leave puppies waiting.
biz
Yeah. So—wow.
theresa
Yeah. And I—still, I’m having the same reaction to that email from her. I don’t even want to print the attachments. And believe me, I know I’m being an asshole right now. Like, I really like his teacher. She’s doing a good job. I appreciate everything teachers are doing. I’m just at that level of burnout where I’m like—looking at it I’m like—y’know, I’m looking at it on my phone and I’m thinking, “Okay, gotta remember to go to my computer, log in on my computer, print out the things, make sure the computer’s connected to the printer and the—whatever.” Just all that—and then figuring out what he needs for what—I just… it’s burnout. I don’t want to do it! I just wanna skip to next year!
biz
Wah, wah, wah! Yeah! Skippies! Skippies! No, I—
theresa
And I also—by the way— [Biz laughs.] —don’t ever wanna support my kid’s education going forward. Like—even post-pandemic! [Laughs.] Like I’m done! I don’t wanna do homework with them. [Laughs.] I’m so cooked, you guys. [Laughs.]
biz
Oh, god. I—look. Here’s—two things. One, I appreciate you seeing this experiment through. [Theresa laughs.] Because that is probably helpful to many of us. And two, I really get it. Like, there are so many dumb things like that? ‘Cause that’s dumb. I mean, y’know? Yes. Go fucking print it out, Theresa! Wah, wah, wah! Right? But like—I—there’s like—[Laughs.] So many of those things where I’m like—
theresa
Yeah. It’s too many! That’s just one of like twenty today!
biz
I really don’t even wanna unlock the garage again. I don’t know why it angers me. I don’t know why I find that to be too much? I don’t… know. But I don’t ever wanna do it again. Right? Like there’s just—y’know? I get it! [Theresa laughs.] So despite understanding, you are doing a horrible job.
theresa
Yes. Thank you.
biz
Yeah. So. Oh, you’re welcome. You’re—you’re very welcome, Theresa. Okay. It’s a classic and I wish I’d had my phone near me to take a picture, but I’m going to make my coffee. My espresso. My cappuccino. And I take out my beans and I’m gonna pour them in my grinder and I don’t. I pour the—I pour them in the frother? My little milk frother, like, pitcher? I just… fill it up. And I don’t even recognize it? Like—and by the way, yes, I am absolutely talking to kids at this moment. And—[Laughs.] I just looked at it and I was like, “Huh. Hey.” Stefan walked in and I was like, “Looky looky! Looky what I did!” And he was like, “Oh! You did that.” And I was like, “I did.” It’s not—I didn’t pour a liquid into the grinder. This is a big deal.
theresa
That’s better.
biz
I did not pour milk directly, like, into the espresso machine. This time it was a solid into a place that holds liquid. But I just was like, “Look at that! Look at this thing that I will forever be bad at because I’m a little broken.” [Theresa laughs.] Just a little broken. Now and forever. So that—it’s simple. It’s small. It’s no Glee. But it’s… yeah.
theresa
It’s a reminder.
biz
It’s a reminder that I’m not ever gonna be okay. That’s it. You’re right. Thank you.
theresa
Mm-hm. You’re welcome.
biz
Thanks for putting that into words.
theresa
Any time.
biz
Oh. It’s so good.
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] [Laughs.] This is a fail. [Laughs.] I… needed to pick up a packet from my second-grader’s school. Because he’s remote and so they do these every couple of weeks. So I’m not wearing real shoes. I’m wearing very clearly not— [Laughs.] Not outside shoes. And they definitely noticed. [Laughs.] I’m having trouble being a human. Y’all are doing a great job. Bye. [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.]
biz
I gotta tell ya—my fear of showing up to school or someplace without shoes at all. This is a dream that I have all the—that I am just… barefoot. It is like—that—after this pandemic, is very real. And I totally see the showing up. Just in the shoes. Like, the not-shoes. Though I have to ask—what were the shoes?
theresa
I know!
biz
What were the—‘cause I’m like—is it a flip-flop? It can’t be a flip-flop. Unless it’s snowing and then you’re like, “That’s weird.” Is it like a little sexy kitten heel? [Theresa laughs.] Y’know, like a little furry—like on the top. You’re just like, “Well I was just in my boudoir in my kitten heels, and then I needed to go pick them up.” Is it like… I don’t know! I don’t know what other shoes it could be! But I’m thrilled.
theresa
House slippers. House slippers.
biz
What? House slippers. It’s very relaxed in California. Y’know? People can kinda get away with house slippers. But maybe—
theresa
That’s true. That’s true.
biz
But maybe they were like big, furry, like, claws. Or it had a monster slippers or a puffy kitty face.
theresa
Yeah. There’s all kinds of embarrassing slippers that you could have.
biz
Oh my god. What if they’re like those novelty slippers that have a bosom on the end? [Theresa laughs.]
theresa
Oh no!
biz
So it’s just like… two bosom slippers? I mean, I don’t know if they actually make those. I gotta imagine they do. But bosom slippers! That—that would be an excellent thing to go pick up your kid’s packet with. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So well—you’re doing a horrible job just remembering how to leave the house! And be in front of people. That’s—yeah. Well—and by the way, they were all talking about you forever. [Theresa laughs.] So I hope you can’t sleep.
music
“Mom Song” by Adira Amram. Mellow piano music with lyrics. You are the greatest mom I’ve ever known. I love you, I love you. When I have a problem, I call you on the phone. I love you, I love you. [Music fades out.]
music
Inspirational keyboard music plays in background.
biz
One Bad Mother is supported in part by Billie. Self-care and routine are more important than ever. Whatever you’re using to get ready for the day should make you feel amazing!
theresa
Okay. Meet Billie, you guys. For the days when you want an extra-smooth shave. I personally have really sensitive skin. It’s been really hard to find a razor that doesn’t irritate my skin. But Billie is a really, really nice razor, you guys. It’s no surprise that this razor has won awards. So you can go to MyBillie.com to get their starter kit for just $9. It includes their award-winning razor, two refill blades, and a cult-favorite magnetic holder.
biz
Go to MyBillie.com/mother to show them where you heard about it while getting the best razor you will ever own!
theresa
It’s just $9 to get your starter kit, plus free shipping always. So go to MyBillie.com/mother.
biz
That’s spelled MyB-I-L-L-I-E.com/mother. [Music fades out.]
promo
[Cheering crowd.] Danielle Radford: Mmmacho man, to the top rope! [Thump!] Danielle: The flying elbow! The cover! [Crowd cheering swells.] Speaker 2: [Distant; impact on each word] One! Two! Three! [Ding ding ding!] Danielle:: We've got a new champion! Music: Excited, sweeping music. Lindsey Kelk: We're here with Macho Man Randy Savage after his big win to become the new world champion! What are you gonna do now, Mach?! Hal Lublin: [Randy Savage impression] I'm gonna go listen to the newest episode of the Tights and Fights podcast, oh yeah! Lindsey: Tell us more about this podcast! Hal: [Continuing impression] It's the podcast of power, too sweet to be sour! Funky like a monkey! Woke discussions, man! And jokes about wrestlers' fashion choices, myself excluded! Yeahh! Lindsey: I can't wait to listen! Hal: [Continuing impression] Neither can I! You can find it Saturdays on Maximum Fun! Oh yeahhh! Dig it! [Music fades out.]
promo
Kirk Hamilton: Videogames. Jason Schreier: Videogames! Maddy Myers: Video…games. You like ‘em? Jason: Maybe you wish you had more time for them? Kirk: Maybe you wanna know the best ones to play? Jason: Maybe you wanna know what happens to Mario when he dies? [Someone laughs.] Maddy: In that case you should check out Triple Click. It’s a podcast about videogames. Jason: A podcast about videogames?! But I don’t have time for that! Kirk: Sure ya do. Once a week, kick back as three videogame experts give you everything from critical takes on the hottest new releases— Jason: —to scoops, interviews, and explanations about how videogames work— Maddy: —to fascinating and sometimes weird stories about the games we love. Kirk: Triple Click is hosted by me, Kirk Hamilton. Jason: Me, Jason Schreier. Maddy: And me, Maddy Myers. Kirk: You can find Triple Click wherever you get your podcasts and listen at MaximumFun.org. Maddy: Bye! [Music ceases.]
biz
[Sultrily] Well. It’s that time again. I’m gonna put on my sexy radio voice so that we can snuggle close in our minds with Theresa. And listen to a mom have a breakdown.
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] [Tearfully] Hi! This is a mom having a breakdown. So… I graduated last May with my mechanical engineering degree. I had an internship that I lost because of COVID and I didn’t get to have a graduation because of COVID. And I spent, like, weeks of my life pumping for my children in the parking lot and I was pregnant and gave birth to two kids while going to school and it’s all culminated into nothing because I wasn’t able to graduate properly. And now I’m just casually looking for a job since then because, y’know, I don’t wanna send my kids to daycare right now and I don’t have to and I’m fortunate enough that my husband makes enough money that I don’t have to right now. And—[sniffs]. Just now my husband came out and he’s talking about all this stuff and how much he’s doing and my daughter, who’s four—she’s just four. She goes, “Yeah, Daddy’s an engineer!” And he goes, “Well, Mommy’s an engineer, too!” And she goes, “No.” [Sobs.] “Mommy’s just mommy. She’s not a real engineer. She’s just a pretend one.” And that’s what I feel like and I hate it and she’s just four. [Sobs.] I just… y’know. I just really wanted to be a real engineer and I want to be as a real job and not have to deal with the kids all the time. And it just sucks really bad right now. And I’m really sorry. Y’all are all doing a great job. Thank you so much for your show. [Inaudible] because it’s just really hard sometimes.
biz
It is really hard. Sometimes. And you are doing a truly remarkable job. I—[sighs.] I just… I—ugh! I think… having really young kids in your house… I remember—and still—have these feelings of… like… not being a whole person. Right? Like, I’m not the person I was. I’m—now I’m just “Mom.” Right? Now I’m just “Mama.” And… y’know. I mean, half of the point of this show was to try and sort through those feelings. Of not feeling like a Self. And… [sighs.] What you’ve done… just the fact that you went to and finished school while having—giving birth to two kids! While being pregnant. Giving birth to two children. ‘K? Breastfeeding. Pumping. That’s more than most of the students in that school. Not only did you deserve a graduation? You deserved, like, a special honors. You deserved to walk across that stage by your fucking self and get a standing goddamn ovation. Alright?
theresa
Seriously. Yeah.
biz
I mean… that’s—that’s taking the whole notion of the old saying, “Not only did I do it as a woman, I did it in heels backwards.” Right? This is—this is what you did! You did that!
theresa
Yes.
biz
I am stunned and in awe and… I—I just think you are so remarkable.
theresa
You so are. [Biz laughs.]
biz
Goddammit! [Laughs.]
theresa
Yeah. It’s so—it’s so false that you don’t get to experience that sense of accomplishment? Which is a valid feeling that you’re having. Because… this pandemic means you don’t get to have these tangible experiences that allow you to have that sense of accomplishment. But it’s so false! Like, you—[Laughs.] You did all the things and more.
biz
Talk about not, like… I think there’s this feeling experience of not feeling seen? Like, I just spent all day in therapy talking about this sensation. And like… it’s not—it can be as small as the, like, “Goddammit, I am cooking food every fucking night for this family.” [Laughs.] “When did I sign up to do that?” To the great unseeing of what you have accomplished. And then to be seen by your daughter as… quote, “Just a mommy.” Which, I mean, come on, guys. That’s… that’s so, like, that is an onion that is just full of peels. Mm-kay? That is so many layers. Not only does it of course make you feel like that thing you worked so hard for is completely invalid, it makes you feel like all that work—all that fucking pumping in the car and doing this while pregnant and doing this while—I guarantee you had no sleep during any of this, either. All of it! All of it! It feels like—and of course your four-year-old’s not being dismissive of you [through laughter] but does it mean that you’re feeling? Probably not. Just, I mean, my kids have said stuff to me where I’m like, “Ouch.” And they had no idea the effects it was having and then I would’ve been like, my feminist background/women’s studies minor would’ve like come raring up and I’d be like, “Honey, not only am I a mom—which is an important, hard, fucking time-consuming, emotionally-consuming, mental-consuming job that no one recognizes—I also am this person who had this passion and want to be out in the world walking through it with this job! With this title!” Right? This is important to me! And, y’know, when that feels like it’s being unseen? It’s just so unfair! It really is unfair!
theresa
It really is.
biz
And I just think… you are doing such a good job. I just—I wish we could give you a graduation? I honest-to-god wish—I’m gonna stand, right now. I am applauding you. Everybody? Everybody listening— [Sound of clapping.] —needs to join me in applauding the ridiculously difficult accomplishments of you. Do you understand? We are all celebrating you right now. You are doing a remarkable job. Theresa? Should I sing “Happy Birthday” in Swedish? [Singing in Swedish] That’s about all I can fake it ‘til I make it after that. [Theresa laughs.]
theresa
That was plenty!
biz
It was plenty. And there’s like a whole thing at the end where it’s like, “Hurrah! Hurrah! Hurrah!” Right? And you have to do the “hurrah” with the accent, too. I’m sorry. Marika, my sister-in-law, is probably listening, like, “What?” [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] But I tried my best! Happy birthday. You’re doing a great job. As always, it is a pleasure to see you and makes me feel grounded for at least an hour. [Theresa laughs.] [Laughs.] Just to be honest. Just being honest.
theresa
Thank you, Biz. [Biz laughs.] Alright. Thank you so much. And it was great to see you today and I will see you next week.
biz
Yeah! Let’s do this again next week!
theresa
Let’s do it.
biz
I think that’d be really fun.
theresa
Okay. Sounds good.
biz
Bye!
theresa
Bye!
biz
What did we learn today, everyone? Well—[Laughs.] We learned that family comes in many shapes and sizes. Which is already limiting by just saying shapes and sizes, isn’t it? Family… means a lot of different things to different people, but at its core? It is about… loving and being loved. And I hope that when we start taking the pressure off of what family looks like or how it’s supposed to be defined? That we will begin to really feel… y’know… that we can celebrate who we claim to be our family. And not feel bad if it doesn’t, y’know, if it isn’t with the people we were born with. Or if it isn’t, y’know, I dunno. I just—let’s take that pressure off of us, too. Guys, we have enough pressures on us about being good parents or walking through the world a certain—whatever. Okay? We all know kids wind up in our houses in lots of different ways. We all know that families are made up in a lot of different ways. Sometimes they include kids. Sometimes they don’t. Sometimes there is one parent. Sometimes there are two. Sometimes they are of different sex. And I know we have trans families as well as just another example of what a family can be made up of. And I really loved the selective family—I have many selected families. Families that are from the sketch community. My old camp. Theatre. I just—and One Bad Mother? Come on, guys. [Singing] We are family! Boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop! I got all my sisters and me! [Regular voice] And brothers. Guys? [Laughs.] I love you and you’re doing a good job. And I have got a request! If you will humor me, the MaxFun Drive is coming. Not tomorrow. Down the road. [Laughs.] But it’s going to come again. And this year, MaxFun and One Bad Mother are hoping to get a few voicemails or emails from members sharing what the show has meant to you. So if that’s something you can do as a way to support the show; as a way to support us during the Drive; please email, text, or send an audio message to MemberStories@MaximumFun.org, or call and leave a message at 323-601-8719. And we may be able to use your thoughts in an upcoming episode or during the Drive. And we would really appreciate it. We’ll link everybody up to where they can do that in the show notes as well. And now, everybody? Let me leave you a little message. You guys… are doing an amazing job. The end. I—I—I don’t—we don’t have to expound on that this week. There is… so much… going on. Hovering about. On top of the pandemic. On top of our normal “God, this is all hard and nobody gives a shit” status. And I think what we need to do is step back and remember that we are doing a good job? You are? And I see you? And… I think that’s the real key. We all just wanna be seen. Whether it’s for small efforts in our house or whether it’s feeling heard when it comes to the experiences we’re having walking through the world. So… let’s go out and see each other. And listen to each other. And I will talk to you guys next week. Bye!
music
“Mama Blues” by Cornbread Ted and the Butterbeans. Strumming acoustic guitar with harmonica and lyrics. I got the lowdown momma blues Got the the lowdown momma blues Gots the lowdown momma blues The lowdown momma blues. Gots the lowdown momma blues Got the lowdown momma blues You know that’s right. [Music fades somewhat, plays in background of dialogue.]
biz
We’d like to thank MaxFun; our producer, Gabe Mara; our husbands, Stefan Lawrence and Jesse Thorn; our perfect children, who provide us with inspiration to say all these horrible things; and of course, you, our listeners. To find out more about the songs you heard on today’s podcast and more about the show, please go to MaximumFun.org/onebadmother. For information about live shows, our book and press, please check out OneBadMotherPodcast.com.
theresa
One Bad Mother is a member of the Maximum Fun family of podcasts. To support the show go to MaximumFun.org/donate. [Music continues for a while before fading out.]
music
A cheerful ukulele chord.
speaker 2
Comedy and culture.
speaker 3
Artist owned—
speaker 4
—Audience supported.
About the show
One Bad Mother is a comedy podcast hosted by Biz Ellis about motherhood and how unnatural it sometimes is. We aren’t all magical vessels!
Join us every week as we deal with the thrills and embarrassments of motherhood and strive for less judging and more laughing.
Call in your geniuses and fails: 206-350-9485. For booking and guest ideas, please email onebadmother@maximumfun.org. To keep up with One Bad Mother on social media, follow @onebadmothers on Twitter and Instagram.
Get in touch with the show
onebadmother@maximumfun.org
@OneBadMothers
@onebadmothers
How to listen
Stream or download episodes directly from our website, or listen via your favorite podcatcher!
