Transcript
biz ellis
Hi. I’m Biz.
theresa thorn
And I’m Theresa.
biz
Due to the pandemic, we bring you One Bad Mother straight from our homes—including such interruptions as: children! Animal noises! And more! So let’s all get a little closer while we have to be so far apart. And remember—we are doing a good job.
music
“Summoning the Rawk” by Kevin MacLeod. Driving electric guitar and heavy drums. [Continues through dialogue.]
biz
This week on One Bad Mother—drawing inspiration from the pandemic with comic storyteller Lisa Lim. Plus, Biz shares a recipe for happiness.
crosstalk
Biz and caller: Wooooo!
caller
Hey! World’s okay-est mom checking in here. I just used two Go-Gurt tubes and squeezed them into a reusable pouch because I can’t trust my toddler with the open tubes. So… that happened. And we’re all doing okay here. [Biz laughs.] It’s fine. It’s fine. Hope you’re doing alright. Love the show. Thanks Biz and Theresa! Bye.
biz
Ah, good ol’ “okay.” Code for “o…k.” “Okay” is never gonna mean the same thing to me in the future. It doesn’t mean the same thing to me now. It’s such a like… ohhhh…kayyyy. No one has called my mother on me yet. [Laughs.] But it’s okay. I mean, I’m eating. There’s food in the house. Maybe not the best food choices but I’m oohhkayyy. [Laughs.] Well, I’m glad you’re okay. And I think that you’re doing a really good job. And all squeezable foods I think are just a general hazard on many levels, especially in a car. Really anywhere. That stuff’s gonna come shooting out. Shooting out like a wound-up type ketchup package in the high school cafeteria back in Central High days. So good job just avoiding that problem. You… are doing a really good job! Speaking of good jobs, it is time to thaaank peopllle! And I would actually like to start today thanking volunteers. [Singing] Oh volunteers! [Regular voice] You have been doing such hard work since the beginning of this pandemic. Not only do I wanna say thank you to people to have been volunteering at food banks and at shelters making sure the people have food. All the volunteers who have worked at closed schools still distributing lunch and other meals sometimes that so many kids and families rely on. And I wanna say thank you to the volunteers who work the crisis center hotline and the suicide hotline and my [singing] favorite [regular voice] Poison Control Hotline! God, we love you here, Poison Control. And now especially to all of those who were already working. Like, already doing their work in the healthcare industry who… are then taking their time when they’re not working to volunteer. To give vaccines. I just—this is an impossible task almost, trying to get all of these vaccines out and into people. And we can’t do it! Without people who are volunteering. And so I just wanna say, I really see you. People who are dedicating their free time in the service of others. You guys are so amazing. As always, thank you to everyone who works in the healthcare industry and to all people who work to keep the places that we interact in clean! In our apartments, in our hospitals, in our doctor’s offices. At the schools and office buildings. Thank you, teachers. Thank you, teachers. Thank you, teachers. Thank you, teachers. Thank you… teachers. So many schools are talking about coming back after spring break and I just have to say—I can only imagine being caught as a teacher between really wanting to be back in a classroom and the anxiety and stress of your safety. So I see you. Or the safety of those around you. I see you and I know that you are really trying to balance it all and that none of it is an easy choice. You’re all doing remarkable and I appreciate it. You know what I also appreciate is recently, Ellis has given me a recipe for happiness. Ellis moped around this house for about two weeks saying he’s sad. [Morosely] “I’m sad. I’m just sad. Maybe I’m a sad kid. Maybe I’ll be sad forever.” And I’m like, “Maybe! Maybe. ‘Cause I don’t—this is an insolvable thing for me to help you with.” And finally he said, “Maybe… maybe I need a kittycat nose and whiskers to feel happy.” And I said, “Well, let’s give it a try.” So I pulled out makeup that I don’t use anymore and I gave him a little nose. I gave him some little whiskers and he said, “It does work! It does make me happy!” So for days now, we’ve had kitty whiskers and kittycat nose on Ellis’s face and it’s so great ‘cause his best friend in school, whose Zoom name says his name and then it’s followed by “is sad”? It has said that for like weeks? And Ellis said finally, “Hey. Maybe you should try adding a kittycat nose to your face.” And so I text the mom and I’m like, “Hey, just FYI, if your kid comes up to you asking for a kittycat face nose this is why. Blah, blah, blah.” And then she sends back a picture saying, “It does work!” And there’s that kid with a kitty face and a smile! It was so sweet. So everybody remember—recipe for happiness: kittycat nose and whiskers.
biz
Which… I cannot find a way to tie in to what we’re going to be talking about today, except using art and creativity to help us when it comes to expressing our feelings. Which I think is what we’re going to be talking about today with comic storyteller Lisa Lim.
music
Banjo strums; cheerful banjo music continues through dialogue.
theresa
Please—take a moment to remember: If you’re friends of the hosts of One Bad Mother, you should assume that when we talk about other moms, we’re talking about you.
biz
If you are married to the host of One Bad Mother, we definitely are talking about you.
theresa
Nothing we say constitutes professional parenting advice.
biz
Biz and Theresa’s children are brilliant, lovely, and exceedingly extraordinary.
theresa
Nothing said on this podcast about them implies otherwise. [Banjo music fades out.] [Biz and Lisa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss the weekly topic.]
biz
This week we are welcoming Lisa Lim, who is a comic storyteller born and raised in Queens, New York. Her work has been featured in Guernica, PANK, The Rumpus, Pan-America, Scary Mother and—one of our favorites—Mother Magazine. Her short illustrated story, “The Hunger,” was featured in an anthology edited by Joyce Carol Oates! Cutting-Edge News Stories of Mystery and Crime by Women Writers. You can find out more about her storytelling at LisaLimComics.com. [Singing] Welcome, Lisa! [Laughs.]
lisa lim
Thank you for having me!
biz
Well I am so glad you could join us! And before we get into all the questions I have for you and your work, I wanna ask you who lives in your house. Where are they hiding right now? [Laughs.]
lisa
They have been told to not make any noise. I put them in a crate. No, just kidding. First of all, I live with my domestic partner. Who I—y’know, I joke around and I call him my husband, not by marriage, but he’s my partner in life. Right?
biz
Right! Yeah.
lisa
He gets offended and he’s like, “Please don’t—please just call me your husband.” I’m like, “It’s like even more special, I feel like!” I came up with a whole moniker for him! [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.] And I also live with my six-year-old, Miles, who’s downstairs glued to the television probably watching some kind of Minecraft or Pokémon. He’s obsessed-obsessed. We’re actually living not at my place. I hail from Queens. We were from Forest Hills, Queens. But during the pandemic our in-laws had a really—y’know, they have a really nice place at the Cape and they weren’t using it so they were like, “Why don’t you just squat there?” I was like, “Squat away.” So we’ve been here for many months. [Biz laughs.] And they’re like, “So when are you leaving?” I’m like—[Laughs.]
biz
Like, never. [Laughs.]
lisa
I don’t know how to drive so it’s like half-and-half. It’s beautiful, but I feel like I’m stuck in the middle of nowhere. So it’s got its pros and cons. [Biz laughs.]
biz
Alright. Pandemic. Brought a lotta changes. But I think it has brought in a weird way inspiration to your work. And your work—you are a comic storyteller.
lisa
I’m a comic storyteller. That’s the way I spin it. [Biz laughs.]
biz
I love that spin! I think that’s a great description. So you tell stories through your comics. And a lot of them have recently centered around motherhood as well as an Asian-American experience. And I feel like with the pandemic there have been two pieces that came out last year that I thought were so insightful, as well as—ah, I can never think of the right word. Like, “touching” is not right. “Important.” Like, “Poke you with a stick.” I don’t know. We’ll get into it. But one is “Being an Asian Mom Amid the Coronavirus,” as well as “Good Riddance, 2020.”
lisa
Oh my gosh.
biz
“Motherhood Edition.” Two different types of pieces! But—
lisa
Very different! Very different!
biz
But very relevant. So I kinda wanna start off with those pieces. Let’s start with the “Being an Asian Mom in the Coronavirus.”
lisa
Well it’s interesting. So y’know I remember when the pandemic first started and there was this huge backlash but people were still not being overtly racist, right? I mean... it’s so crazy ‘cause I started writing— [Biz laughs.] It was just like, “Oh—"
biz
They’re still racist.
crosstalk
Lisa: Just racist but not overtly racist. Biz: They’re just not overtly. Right?
biz
You’re not wearing the t-shirt. [Laughs.]
lisa
Yeah. Yeah. Or I even saw some t-shirt company making t-shirts for Asians that say, “I’m not that Asian. I’m the other—"
biz
Holy shit. [Laughs.] Of course! Well there is a t-shirt. [Laughs.]
lisa
I was like, “Oh my god!” Or even I feel like—I don’t wanna—y’know, one of the designer companies had like—they called it, “This is batshit crazy.” And then like—y’know how the connections? Anyway, so it’s— [Biz laughs.]
biz
Oh my god! Yes. Well, there ya go. Wow.
lisa
People had fun with their racism.
biz
Yeah, With their racism.
lisa
It’s—so I remember I was in—I was getting my hair done, right? And the person next to me, I overheard her saying like, “Oh my god, y’know, its’ so fucking disgusting. Chinese people they eat like bats, rats, and this is why it’s—we have the coronavirus.” And I’m like, she didn’t see me ‘cause my hair was covering my face? But that kind of enraged me so much because I didn’t have—I mean, at the time I couldn’t like, y’know, tell her to eff off. But what I did was—I think for me during the pandemic, I feel like the way I work out all my feelings about anything, whether it’s the racism I’m feeling; whether it’s working from home; whether it’s just surviving. Y’know. As a person. A parent. A mother. I work that out in my comics so I started writing this comic about, y’know, being an Asian mom during—amid the coronavirus. And it started out with that story of what I heard at the hairdresser’s and what I think about when I think about like… what I wrote and I think about what’s happening now? It astounds me. It’s like, we went from people calling each other names, spitting at each other, y’know, refusing to give Costco samples to Asian people?
biz
I know that one! I was like, “They ain’t nothing nastier than a Costco sample.” And like… you’re—no! I mean, like, wow! Wow! Yeah.
lisa
It’s so crazy ‘cause you read these news—I follow probably too many blogs that I shouldn’t be following ‘cause it just makes me so sad. Things are happening. Especially to the elderly right now? And you just feel a sense of helplessness. And I wouldn’t say that I’m—I’m not an activist in any way, but to me, like, I tell—for me, my small part is just telling—retelling their stories through comics. And that helps me kind of… y’know… come to terms with it and also work out my own feelings about it. So that’s—[sighs]. Yep. That’s how that comic originated. But also it—
biz
Did it help? [Laughs.]
lisa
It did! Because, y’know, it’s so weird because what happened was my partner and I decided to kind of, y’know, move from Queens to the Cape house just to squat for a little bit. For a little bit and now we’re here forever. But when I first got here I told him, “Y’know what? I don’t know! Usually I like going for my runs and I felt scared.” I was like, “Should I go out for my runs? Should I not go out for my runs?” And then I ended up [through laughter] just running around the house like twenty times like an idiot. [Biz laughs.] [Through laughter] But it’s like, let me just—y’know, I need to get this—
biz
Slowly. Slowly makes the circle bigger. That’s right. Expand my comfort level. Yeah.
lisa
Yeah. And then y’know the funny thing is I would tell—I think a lot of people in the beginning didn’t really believe it? Y’know, my friends—even a lot of my friends, my coworkers, I’m like, “It’s all in your head.” It’s not in my head! You’re not seeing it ‘cause you’re not getting the stares. And the weird comments that I’m getting. And the weird microaggressions that turn to be like—that has evolved into, y’know, so much more. So y’know it was—yeah. It’s um… it definitely helped me kind of work out my feelings and… yeah.
biz
Other pieces that you have created focus on your experience as a mom. And… when the pandemic started, I only wish that crisis could unite us as opposed to crisis—y’know, when people are afraid, that is when sometimes the worst can happen. The worst instincts. The worst responses. When people are afraid and wanna keep what’s theirs safe. Right? But as parents I think… there have been no easy decisions. No easy choices. And… obviously we’re all worried about, y’know, not only our own children but our parents and our extended family. But then on top of that—that’s where mine ends! Right? Because that’s my experience and how I walk through the world. But then y’know, for so many there’s the added level of stress and anxiety and concern surrounding—brought on by racism. Brought on by people’s fear, fed by misinformation, fed by—right? Like, it’s not just… I gotta imagine it’s not just you worried about running around the block. Y’know? [Laughs.]
lisa
Yeah. Oh—are you kidding me? I’ll just give you an example. I’m not gonna delve too much into it, but my mom just—y’know, my stepmom who raised me since I was four, she went back into the hospital. She’s been back and forth in the hospital for forever, right? And she went from Queens to NYU, a hospital in Manhattan. And so my biggest fear—yes, I was scared for her life because I was so—y’know, but I was more scared for my father traveling on the train to get to her and traveling back. That made me so angry. You know what I mean? And then I remember even before—from the beginning of the pandemic, I would—I wrote this in the initial comic a year ago. I said to my parents, both of them, I said, “Oh my god, please, please—mask up. Wear anything that doesn’t show your face so that people can’t even tell you’re Asian. I don’t want anything happening to you ‘cause there’s such a backlash against Asians and I just want you guys safe.” Y’know? And it’s like—that should not be a conversation that I’m having. To a parent.
biz
No. It’s a really powerful comic. That one in particular. The one where it’s got your father. There’s a drawing of your father completely masked and the hood and I thought that piece was really strong. And I—it’s why I think your work surrounding motherhood also come through very well? Your 2020 Kiss-Off—[Laughs.] 2020—that one? Is fantastic. Tell us—
lisa
I mean, everyone had the worst 2020. Right? And I think I’m lucky. There’s so many—I am so privileged in so many ways. The fact that I was even able to locate at my in-laws’. So I feel like I don’t have anything to complain about. But I’m still gonna complain. [Laughs.]
biz
Yeah! ‘Cause it’s still fucking hard! Like, it was hard—it was hard—when there’s a kid in your house, its’ hard. ‘K? One kid? Eight kids? Hard. Varying degrees. Everybody gets what they get. But then you add on all of your safety nets are gone? All of your resources are gone when it comes to getting a break. And… please share with us that comic.
lisa
What’s a break? Like—yeah. It’s—[Laughs.] [Biz laughs.] [Through laughter] First of all, I was—so Miles, he’s six years old. He was five last year. But he was so an integral part of my work life that they called him the intern. Right? Y’know, when they think—whenever I join a Zoom meeting and I’m trying to run a workshop? He’s right behind me. [Laughs.]
biz
Yeah! [Laughs.]
lisa
He says, “Mommy, can you—” How many times—I can count how many times he’ll be in the background right next to me. He'll be like, "Mommy, can you wipe my butt, please?" [Laughs.] It’s like, every meeting! Important meeting!
biz
Yeah, and you’re like—how’d that make you feel? Did you feel like a person? [Laughs.] ‘Cause like—
lisa
I’m like, “Hold on while I—” [Laughs.]
biz
“—go wipe my kid’s butt. Pardon me, guys. Just hold that thought. If somebody could just—and I’ll try to remember what I was saying so that I can come back and feel like a person who contributes to the world.” Yeah. No. That’s—ugh.
lisa
Yeah. It was hard. But I have to tell you, y’know, again I think that I’m privileged enough to have a therapist who I see every week who keeps me—who checks me every step of the way. Who just is my life preserver. She’s just amazing. She’s been—y’know, our family’s rock. Without her—I always say, I was like, “You’re kind of part of my relationship now. You’re part of my family.”
biz
“You know too much.” [Laughs.] Well but that’s just it, is you also did—recently, one of your most recent pieces that was in Mother Magazine was the debate about remote learning versus in-person learning. Which you are—duh—not the only person going through this conversation. So many people are either—a lot of single parents are having to try and make this decision totally on their own. Lot of people in partnered relationships are, y’know, may not agree! On… on what to do. And even in our house, like, Stefan, my partner, and I, we’re always just like, “Yeah! Go!” [Laughs.] “Go. Done. We’re fine. Can we go now? How about now?” [Lisa laughs.] But we don’t work in offices right now. We have no relatives here. Right? We have… there are so many things on our checklist of us not putting others at risk? We also don’t go anywhere. Like, y’know, I mean—so that decision, even though making that decision we know there’s still a risk that our kids will get sick or that we will get sick. And… even that? Like, even being able to say, “Yeah, you’re going back.” Still discussions we haven’t had that we probably should have, right? But you guys—different situation, according to your comic. Lotta different feelings.
lisa
Oh my god. So many feelings. I can’t even tell you. We spent basically—multiple sessions crying talking about this. Mostly me crying. But I just felt this overwhelming sense of guilt that by choosing remote learning I was cutting him out from that socialization that was so necessary to his growth as a child? And I read all these articles that said that, y’know, “Schools don’t—the virus, so there’s nothing to worry about. There’s just this stigma.” But then, y’know—and I felt so guilty. And every time I would hear more friends saying that they’re choosing hybrid or choosing—yes. I would get even more—y’know, ‘cause you hear that. You always compare yourself to other parents!
biz
Yes! Yeah! Of course! That is all we do. Besides eat and breath. Is judge and judge ourselves. So—yeah. That’s normal. [Laughs.]
lisa
So I felt so guilty and he didn’t—listen, this is a gorgeous place to be, right? But I didn’t know anybody here. I don’t know anybody. I’m used to having a huge network. Like y’know, I hail from Queens. My whole network is in Queens. Or somewhere in New York. Right? So what I had to do—I mean, ultimately I think we made a good decision for our own family. But I was fighting to go the other way. But ultimately I’m okay about it because at the end of the day it happened that his school in particular—only his school—kept on shutting down every two weeks because they kept finding new kids who were infected. And so what happened was the disruption in the schedule was so crazy. And by the way, he has the most amazing set of teachers at his school. They run their classroom like a talk show. Kinda like—
biz
It’s amazing. Yeah.
lisa
It has me—sometimes I listen in and it has me in tears because they’re so funny. They’re so loving. They’re so—every kid is engaged.
biz
Ah. That’s amazing! Especially for first grade, man.
lisa
I’m engaged! Yeah! I’m engaged! I’m like, “Oh my god! Sign me up for math! Sign me up for storytelling!” [Biz laughs.] I mean, this teacher’s on point! And she has two other kids that she’s taking care of. So I really lucked out. For friends, though, what I did—‘cause I was desperate—attempt to make friends, every time we’d go to the park I’m like, “I feel like I’m one of those—” [Laughs.] Like a hustler. Like, “Hey, my kid’s your age. Your kid’s my age.” [Laughs.] You know what I mean?
lisa
You wanna—you wanna have them play just instantly? Yeah. That’s also a universal parent thing that I don’t think gets enough shoutouts because yeah. It’s… I used to compare it to going to a dog park? But it’s with your kids? Especially littles? ‘Cause it’s like—you start to kinda see the same kids at the park each time and then you—and I never knew anybody’s name but I knew all the kids’ names, just like I would’ve known all the dogs’ names? [Lisa laughs.] So you’re just like, “Ehhh…” But yeah. I think you touch on something really good there, which is just that the best any of us could do is do what is right for our particular family, which is not a statement on other people’s choices.
lisa
Exactly.
biz
But that’s—it’s still hard.
lisa
It’s still hard. I mean, I still get jealous when I hear about his—interestingly enough, his best friend who we met in Queens, I call it—‘cause it was my pickup line in the park. I was like, “Oh, do you wanna go pet rabbits at the pet store?” [Both laugh.] And that became his best friend for life! They’re still best friends. They call each other almost every-other night and they—I try to host a book club where they take turns reading to each other. That didn’t last long, but still. [Biz laughs.] The attempt was there. [Laughs.]
biz
Yep! I love it. I love that one. That’s a good one. It’s like in college, it used to be—the big pickup one in college was, “You wanna go back to my dorm and listen to some CDs?” [Both laugh.] “I have the new Neil Young CD. Do you wanna listen to that?” I’m old. Alright. You were doing this before pandemic. You’ve been doing this for a while. And while I appreciate that you’ve allowed some of your work to focus on what so many people are going through right now, what… what were you enjoying—what was motivating you before the pandemic? Is it the same now? Has this changed sort of… where your work focuses on?
lisa
Yeah! I mean… I can just give you—so I started comics… I don’t know. I would say back in 2005? I remember I’d just started—I work in advertising, right, and I’d just started a job. I had this wonderful creative director who’s really great at encouraging me to find my side hustles. “Find what makes you spark. Outside of this arena of work.” So I was—y’know, I took improv classes. I took African dance classes. I took painting. And then I stumbled upon comics, right? And it was the most amazing experience for me. Because—y’know, keep in mind I had spent my whole entire life before that just writing, writing, writing. I was in English literature—y’know. So anyways, so I was like, “Oh my god, this is so awesome! I get to merge writing and these—and drawing pictures.” And so I really got into that because I love—any time I’d write, I’d write stories about my family. I come from a very blended family and very interesting. My father/mother divorced when I was four. My father remarried my—well, he didn’t marry her, but he was with her since I was four. My stepmother, who’s Puerto Rican—
biz
[Singing] Common lawwww!
lisa
Right! Common law!
biz
Is that still a thing? I’m from the South! [Laughs.] That’s still a thing, right? After six years?
lisa
It is a thing! It’s a thing.
biz
After six years or seven, depending—
lisa
I think it’s seven.
biz
You are legally—yes. So anyway.
lisa
[Laughs.] Seven years. So anyways. So my mom, she married someone who’s Egyptian. My sister’s half—so I have a lot of—I have Puerto Rican in my family. I have Egyptian. I have my cousins are Czech. Everyone’s super blended. So I always write about my family and growing up and I grew up with my grandmother, who is amazing. She’s one of—I call her the “nag finger” ‘cause her finger was this crazy hooked finger and she’d nag me to death with it? And I’d write a lot about her and I’d write a lot about my stepmom, my Puerto Rican stepmom who raised me since I was four. Because to me they’re such great storytellers and they’re so inspirational to me. And just being… tough women in their own right. And they hated each other. [Laughs.]
biz
Oh, of course! [Laughs.]
lisa
Yeah! They were like, “My kitchen! It’s bok choy!” “No, it’s beans tonight!” [Laughs.]
biz
That’s amazing. [Laughs.] I love it. I love it. Let me wrap up on this question. Have you found… that… in doing comics—first of all, actually, I wanna go back and just give you a good job shoutout for all the different classes and enrichment things you were doing? Because, again, I just don’t think we—so many of us don’t allow ourselves that for a variety of reasons. Right? Whether it’s financial restrictions or time or what I think it comes down to a lot is just feeling like you have permission to do it? And I, myself, hadn’t done anything that exciting in a long time and then my husband got me pottery lessons before the pandemic. And suddenly I was like… like, it unlocked so much for me that I had shut down when kids got in the house. And I just—so like, I love hearing that like—[Laughs.] You did the improv and you did—I’m so glad you didn’t go into improv. Lord help you. [Lisa laughs.]
lisa
I was terrible at it. [Laughs.] It was so—
crosstalk
Biz: It’s a real skill. Lisa: So every time I was on stage I wanted to throw up a little in my mouth.
lisa
I think I did. [Biz laughs.]
biz
It’s a real skill. [Laughs.]
lisa
I can’t.
biz
And then I love the African dance. But I love that then you found something that then inspired you on to doing something that you love. And I—so good job.
lisa
Thank you.
biz
So have you found—during this time of honing your comics skills or just through the process—that it’s changed how you walk through the world? Like… the best example I could think of is, y’know, I don’t think you started off necessarily wanting to be a—y’know, Snoopy/Peanuts type—y’know, there’s definitely a sort of narrative to your style? But like… the person that you were and the way you kind of walk through life or what you felt comfortable expressing… has that changed as you’ve become more comfortable with the medium?
lisa
Y’know what? It’s… I don’t know if this is answering your question, but I know that when I first started—
biz
It’s a weird question. [Laughs.]
lisa
[Laughs.] When I first started, I took the class at SVA. And I remember I took—I had two wonderful teachers, Matt Madden and Tom Hart. And they made me kind of start in a template where it was a nine-panel thing? And I started working in that and I was like, “I dunno. I feel restricted. I feel like I need to get out.” And then so— [Biz laughs.] I can share with you some of the pieces. But it’s like you could see I’m trying to get out of those—the box, right? And then I spent a lot of time—very much detail creating the work. Especially with, y’know, “My Egyptian Fortune Cookie,” which is about my sister, and “Mi Madre,” which, is about my mom. My stepmom. What I call my mom. But once I had Miles, I had no time. So it evolved into really primal drawings. [Laughs.] Almost like primitive caveman drawings— [Biz laughs.] —of what my feelings were. ‘Cause I don’t have the time to be inking and cross-hatching—I don’t have that time that I used to. And now I just kind of, y’know. Before the pandemic when I was on trains during my commutes I would be that person with my Moleskin drawing out my comics like with shaky hand and that would be the comic. Because I didn’t have time! And so I don’t know if that answers your question, but yeah. It’s definitely—
biz
No! Actually—it answered it in a really cool way. I love the wording of the lack of time leading to these more, like, primitive sort of—ahhhh! Like, I don’t know how to—no one can see me. But I am doing the motion of my children when they try to color something. I don’t have children who like to color. Like, “Ahhh!” There’s this scrape—this motion to it. Right? The lines are not always clean. There is a motion. And… I actually think that that really works well to express, especially, the stuff with the pandemic and motherhood. Especially motherhood. Because that’s such a… I look forward to seeing how you merge the storytelling and your drawings as you progress along in your life. Because that’s—you can see how it’s already changed sort of once. It’s sort of morphed or evolved. So I think—is there anything you’re looking forward to working on next? Speaking of evolution?
lisa
Y’know, I—I don’t know. I haven’t thought about it, but I always—I’m starting to—trying to draw inspiration. But I haven’t—I don’t have anything in my head right now. But—well one thing—this is embarrassing.
biz
Come on! Say it!
lisa
I’m obsessed with Korean drama. Y’know like on Netflix? I’m obsessed with it. They are so good. And it’s—they’re so cheesy but so good. I don’t know if you’re—have you indulged in it yet or not?
biz
I—no. I rarely watch anything.
lisa
Really?
biz
I play videogames, which makes me feel worse. [Laughs.]
lisa
Oh my gosh! You—what kind of videogames do you play? I’m so curious!
biz
Oh, I steal my children’s Switch and I play all the Switch games.
lisa
Oh my gosh! That’s so fun! You’re such a cool mom!
biz
I know. It’s a problem. Oh, I’m so cool—I’m the coolest on the playground. I’m like, “Who wants to talk about Legend of Zelda? Okay, this is how you defeat that monster.” Right? Everybody’s like, “You’re a mom! Talking about videogames! What?! What?!” Anyway.
lisa
That is the coolest thing ever!
biz
Now I will look into that. Go ahead. [Laughs.]
lisa
Yeah. But I’m just—I think I’m gonna draw out some characters that I’m falling in love with and just kind of—‘cause I don’t know. It’s so crazy, ‘cause they spend a whole season—about twenty episodes—nobody kisses! But the sexual tension is like so there and it’s like… nobody even touches each other! It’s just like— [Biz laughs.] —you can feel. You can feel that sexual tension and it’s kind of hysterical to me.
biz
Oh my god I love it. I might have to try that this weekend!
lisa
That might be my new obsession. And what I comic.
biz
I love it. Well, Lisa, Thank you for joining us. And—
lisa
This was so much fun!
biz
Thank you for putting this out in the world. I know that isn’t always easy and so… y’know, for many reasons. And so I just wanna say thank you.
lisa
Oh, thank you so much!
biz
For sharing these things with all of us. We’ll make sure that everybody finds a way to find you at LisaLimComics.com, as well as on your Instagram. And—
lisa
Mother Magazine!
biz
Oh, and Mother Magazine! Always. We always link to Mother Magazine.
lisa
With Meg Lemke. She’s like the best editor ever. I love her.
biz
I know. They are so cool.
lisa
I call her the patron saints of femme artists. She’s just the best.
biz
I know! She is! It really is true. That is the place—if you are looking, people who are listening, for artists with a very specific voice. A very feminist, a very honest, voice, that is a good place to go to start. So thank you so much and I—y’know, you’re doing a good job trying to navigate a nightmare.
lisa
Thank you so much. I really enjoyed this and I loved meeting all of—y’know, both of you.
biz
Oh, well, we like to see people too! Yay! Alright. We will talk soon!
lisa
Okay, cool!
biz
Have a good one!
lisa
Alright. Thank you! Have a great night. Bye.
biz
Okay. Thanks! Bye!
music
“Ones and Zeroes” by “Awesome.” Steady, driving electric guitar with drum and woodwinds. [Music fades out.]
music
Cheerful ukulele with whistling plays in background.
biz
One Bad Mother is supported in part by Function of Beauty. Function of Beauty is the world leader in customizable beauty, offering precise formulations for your hair’s specific needs.
theresa
And… it’s also really fun. [Biz laughs.] [Laughs.] You go and you take a quiz online to tell them about your hair and what your hair goals are? Like, volumize; oil control; scalp—
biz
College degree. [Laughs.]
theresa
Nourishment—yeah. [Laughs.] And you can also choose your shampoo and condition to be a certain color. You can choose a fragrance and how much or how little fragrance or no fragrance if you prefer. I got so into this that I decided to get some for my mom. [Biz screams.]
biz
Ahh! Fun!
theresa
Just as like a treat. My mom got vaccinated. She’s going to be coming for a visit soon and as a treat for her visit I got her some Function of Beauty shampoo and conditioner and it just came in the mail yesterday and it said, “Function of Beth.” And I just—
biz
Stop it! I love it!
theresa
—thought that was so cute.
biz
Go to FunctionOfBeauty.com/badmother to take your quiz and save 20% off your first order. That applies to their full range of customized hair, skin, and body products.
theresa
Go to FunctionOfBeauty.com/badmother to let them know we sent you and to get 20% off your order.
theresa
Hey, you know what it’s time for! This week’s genius and fails! This is the part of the show where we share our genius moment of the week, as well as our failures, and feel better about ourselves by hearing yours. You can share some of your own by calling 206-350-9485. That’s 206-350-9485.
biz
Genius fail time, Theresaaaaaa! Thorn. Genius me.
clip
[Dramatic, swelling music in background.] Biz: Wow! Oh my God! Oh my God! I saw what you did! Oh my God! I’m paying attention! Wow! You, mom, are a genius. Oh my God, that’s fucking genius! [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective genius moments of the week.]
theresa
Alright. This is a low bar genius, but I’m gonna celebrate it. I… took Oscar—my seven-year-old—for a walk yesterday. And it just went really well. [Biz laughs.] The first thing that happened was he wanted to bring a giant cardboard tube on the walk. Like, giant. Taller than him. And I said, “Okay. I’m not gonna want to carry it, but if you wanna bring it you can.” And he did. And he was really happy with it the whole time. The other thing that happened was we found some sour grass, and he has apparently eaten sour grass before with Jesse? But I did not grow up eating sour grass? We had like the honeysuckles? But we didn’t have sour grass. So I’m not familiar with that. And I was kinda like, “Eh, I don’t really know—eat it with Daddy, then, ‘cause I don’t feel like I just want you picking plants and eating the plants that I don’t—” Y’know? And he was kinda pushing back on it ‘cause he was like, “I really like it. It’s really fun. Please. I know it’s fine.” And I was like, “Oh, I can just look it up on my little nature app. Take a picture. Make sure it’s the thing he thinks it is and make sure it’s edible.” And it was, it was, it was. And so he got to eat it and he was delighted.
biz
Nice.
theresa
That was great. Then when he was pretty much ready to turn back and I was like, this has not been long enough at all. Not for me, not for our dog. I just offered that we could rest the cardboard tube on a wall. [Biz laughs.] And that we could race to the next point, which was the farther point in the walk which was the point that I had in mind that we would get to. And that was—that was easy-peasy for him. He was like, “Great! Let’s have a race!” And so we raced there and then we raced back to the tube. And we just had a great time. It was a really nice time.
biz
Theresa? You deserve a nice time. I am glad you got a nice time. That does feel like a genius. And I think—I don’t think that’s a low bar. I think that bar is right at chin level.
theresa
Is it inching up? Are we inching up with the bar?
biz
Okay, maybe not chin, but like shin. That rhymes with chin. [Theresa laughs.] Or just to the knee. I think… this is very good. And good job just recognizing that you were having a good time in the moment!
theresa
Thank you. I will accept all of these congratulations.
biz
Yeah! Way not to be a sour grass. [Theresa laughs.] So—[Laughs.] I am—I have agreed to do another sleepover with— [Theresa laughs.] —Ellis. It’s been a couple of months. And all I’m gonna say at this point is that the genius part of it is, one, why can’t we stay up and watch a movie before going to bed? ‘Cause that’s how old Ellis is.
theresa
Yeah. He’s old enough to do that. Yeah.
biz
So we are. And… I… “asked”—in air quotes—that the sleepover take place in my bed, which is a big bed. It’s a queen-sized bed. It’s not me trying to sleep in a twin with Ellis, who likes to try and be inside me? Like that’s how close he wants to be? [Theresa laughs.] You know what I mean? Like he just… if he could lay on—so—it’s so… loving. And I would like a bigger bed. So I made that happen. So. I am looking a little forward to that.
theresa
I mean, this—this does make sense. And it really is genius. Because what you’re doing is you’re saying, “I’m going to give this thing to my child that I know that they want. But I am going to make it something that I can also enjoy!”
biz
So anyhoo. That’s my genius. Don’t worry. It’s gonna come back around on the fail even though it hasn’t happened yet.
theresa
Well, good job.
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Hi, One Bad Mother! This is a genius. Happy to report. I had an appointment scheduled for this afternoon for something very trivial but also very overdue thanks to the pandemic. And I happen to be on that side of town this morning doing a different errand and so while I was there with my eight-month-old, I called the place I had an appointment to see if they could squeeze me in sooner and they actually said they could, but the genius is that around that time my eight-month-old was starting to struggle and then squirm and then scream in his car seat ‘cause he hates it and he’ll scream bloody murder until I let him out so he can practice walking, and so while on the phone with this place trying to reschedule my appointment—or trying to see if I can stop in sooner for my appointment, I decided—nope! I’m just going to cancel and reschedule. ‘Cause I don’t feel like spending this much of the day driving around town with a screaming baby in the car. SO I cancelled their appointment, rescheduled it for a couple weeks when I think I can have someone watch the baby, and I’ll take care of it then. Because it’s been a little over a year since I should’ve done this and— [Biz laughs.] —two more weeks won’t make a difference. So that is my genius. Thank you. I love the show. Always keeps me sane. And knowing that I’m doing a good job, and so are you. Thank you! Bye.
biz
I love this genius.
theresa
I love the twist!
biz
Yeah! I know! At first I thought the genius was, “I was out and I got—I thought about calling—"
theresa
Took care of it in advance! Yeah. Yeah.
biz
Yeah! “And I could get in early.” And then suddenly you said you had a kid in the car with you and I thought, “What? Oh. That’s… doesn’t matter if that’s early or late. That’s a lot.” And then you—and as a person with a screamer—a baby screamer—some people are baby whisperers. A baby screamer. Which—sounds like I’m saying I scream at the baby. But I don’t! I don’t. I just—they just scream around me. [Laughs.] That having to just… whatever it is in us that makes us—on things that we really don’t have to do, feel like we’re supposed to just march right through that? With all of the things going crazy? I wish we didn’t. And you didn’t. You just said, “No. No. This is not… this is not major. This is a little appointment. I can reschedule it. I don’t have to go in with a screaming baby!” You are… so very smart.
theresa
Yes. Good job!
biz
Good! Job. Failures.
theresa
[Dramatic orchestral music plays in the background.] Theresa: [In a voice akin to the Wicked Witch of the West] Fail. Fail. Fail. FAIL! [Timpani with foot pedal engaged for humorous effect.] Biz: [Calmly] You suck! [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective failures of the week.]
biz
Fail me, Theresa.
theresa
Okay. So for Oscar’s remote learning for first grade, we have—y’know, learning kit pickups? Once a month? And you go to the school and you give back the Just Right books that they’ve had at home and they give you new Just Right books and they give you the new math materials and the new copy pages and blah, blah, blah. And I’ve been really good about it all alone the past year. [Laughs.] But about two weeks ago, he started going back on campus just very briefly each week. And so that’s been—like, the combination of doing remote learning at home most of the time but then doing a little bit on campus has been—it’s been an adjustment for him and for us and just staying organized and what stuff is where and what do we need and whatever. And so there was a learning kit pickup on a day where he wasn’t on campus that day? But he’d been on campus that week? And then was gonna be on campus the next week. And I knew that it was happening and I knew that we probably needed to go get the stuff? But I just didn’t.
biz
Uh-uh.
theresa
I just didn’t do it. And the fail isn’t just that I didn’t do it? [Biz laughs.] It’s that I didn’t make alternate arrangements, either. I didn’t check with the TA who’s working with him at school and say, like, “Can he get the learning kit when he’s on campus?” Or like, “What’s he gonna need?” Or tell the teacher when I had a meeting with the teacher during that week to say, “Which stuff—how can I get—” Whatever. I just hoped that it would be fine and somehow I’d do nothing and it would resolve itself? [Biz laughs.] And I—and the fail is that’s still where I am right now. It’s been days. It hasn’t come home with him. The new kit. I don’t know when the stuff will be needed, but surely it will be needed. And I’m not doing anything about it! I’m just not. I’m so fatigued at this whole experience. [Laughs.] That it’s like the wall. I’m just like, I don’t know.
biz
I would like to give you some unsolicited advice. Are you ready?
theresa
Lay it on me.
biz
Don’t check your emails. [Theresa laughs.] ‘Cause that will help continue the place you’ve put yourself. ‘Cause if you check your emails, somebody’s gonna tell you, “You need to come pick it up” or “It’s due.” And if you ignore it, then you can continue to go along thinking everything’s fine.
theresa
Be in this place. Yeah.
biz
You just… turned your back on it. I love this! That is a great fail.
theresa
Just wasn’t aware! Yeah.
biz
Just—not only did you forget to do it, you just decided to not do it. [Theresa laughs.] And that—you know what’s really funny?
theresa
I didn’t even tell Oscar! I didn’t even mention him. We’re not gonna—it’s like there is no learning kit.
biz
Out of sight, out of mind. [Theresa laughs.] Right? You are the master of your own universe, Theresa. You get to create it with just your own thoughts.
theresa
Thank you. That’s what I figured. Yeah.
biz
Yeah! While you’re doing—I mean, you’re doing a good job at changing your reality.
theresa
Great.
biz
You’re doing a bad job in that that reality affects everything around you. [Laughs.] Just like all of us walking through the world.
theresa
Because there’s no reward. [Biz laughs.] [Laughs.] Sorry. Like, there’s no reward for going to school to get more school work to work on at home. Like…
biz
Yeah! No. There’s no reward. And—I talked about this a little bit at the beginning of the show last week? Just that like… okay. One, there have been no easy or good choices throughout this entire pandemic. Choices just are a impossible thing to make. Suddenly there’s alllll this—suddenly, everybody’s decided that school actually is important! We should all be in person! I’m like, “What the—” “Parents might need their kids at school!” Anyway. So now—suddenly—all these things are starting to open up. Whether it be one day a week, two days a week just for two hours here or maybe it’s gonna be full, in-person learning. But we’ve all spent the last year making this work. Right? And now… like… all—I mean, just in our house alone, I’m suddenly finding myself without having thought about it—I gotta go pick up one kid from their outdoor remote learning thing but my other kid is still in school and the kid who’s still in school is too young to be by themselves, but Stefan’s scheduled a three-hour meeting where he’s presenting so he’s not gonna be able to—and you’re like—
theresa
The logistics don’t make any sense.
biz
The logistics suddenly are off. And the forgetting all the stuff? And the stress of suddenly, “Well it’s great that my kid was back in school but they’re not offering after-school care.” It’s not like—y’know, it’s just—ahhhh! I can’t believe I’m gonna say this?
theresa
It’s not fixed!
crosstalk
Theresa: It’s not fixed. Biz: No. It’s not a fix. It’s not a fix.
biz
In fact, it’s making choices even harder. Hooray. I think I’m gonna make a choice just like you! [Theresa laughs.] And just pretend none of it’s happening. Okay. My fail is just—I don’t want to do the sleepover. Okay? Like, I really don’t. I am… tired. And as the person who spends—as the parent who spends the bulk of the day out with the kid energy—like, out in that, watching the remote learning, running to and fro—taking the, “I have a story to tell!” and the this and “I’m hungry” and like… like… [sighs]. I really like Friday nights. Because Friday nights, Kat and Stefan watch a movie. Ellis goes to sleep and I just have a little nighttime. Right? And I—even though I’m trying to do the movie and it’s going to be in my bed and all that stuff? It’s still just like… extra hours of being touched? Right? And needing to answer things and like… engage? And I don’t wanna engage? My disengagement’s probably a fail too. God am I on screens a lot more than I wanna be. But it’s… still… I just don’t wanna do it! Y’know? And the fail is just—[groans]. I’m just tired! I mean, it’s gonna be fine, everybody. We’ll have a great time.
theresa
Isn’t there like a fail that is… [Laughs.] I can see doing it in spite of—I feel like you have gotten to a really good place of boundaries and being aware of the time that you need and the space that you need? But at a certain point with the way our lives are right now, you know that doing this one night versus taking that time for yourself is not really gonna change things that much. So you’re just doing it because you’re like, “Well if I don’t do it then I’m still gonna feel like I need to do it at some point and I’m not gonna be fixed from having that Friday night time.”
biz
Right.
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Hi guys! This is a fail. Tonight I had a Zoom webinar with the kids’ school and I was running late for it and I wasn’t thinking and I was changing my clothes and I logged into the Zoom meeting and then I realized I didn’t have a shirt on? So I hit the deck and I frantically was reaching around for my t-shirt to put on so I didn’t appear nude in front of the kids’ school. Thankfully the coordinator had turned off everybody’s video and all that so nobody saw me in various stages of undress, but… I don’t know. I guess I’ve just forgotten how to be human and interact with other people? [Biz laughs.] So I don’t know. If you see me around naked just tell me to put some clothes on or something. I don’t know. Anyway, you guys are doing a great job. Thanks for the show.
theresa
I think about this all the time. Like… there’s so little barrier between our home—like, private home lives and the outside world? And it’s so weird ‘cause it’s so contrary to how it sort of feels. Like, it feels like we’re alone so much more. But actually cameras could be on at any time.
biz
Biz: Any time. The kid’s camera. Yeah. Theresa: There have been so many—yeah!
theresa
Kids’ Zoom cameras. Y’know, we do—Curtis, my four-year-old, we do his speech therapy in his room and he’s often playing dress-up in there and he’s often just taking his clothes off. And it’s like, he would never have done that in the clinic where he gets speech? But he’s in his room! So it’s not connecting that, “I shouldn’t just go potty and then walk in with my pants still down.” Like, that’s… it’s so—I mean, he’s four. It’s not a big deal. But there’s so many things— [Biz laughs.] —y’know, we’re working on it. His therapist understands. We’re working on it. But it’s so easy for us not to connect all of that.
biz
Oh yeah. I also—I love this so much. And I—yeah. You’re failing at definitely being a human. So. [Theresa laughs.] That is a side effect of the pandemic. But I like this idea of not just reminding you but let’s all just go out and remind each other with grace and with gentleness to put some clothes on. That you can, y’know, we can see you below the waist. This is what a human is like. This is what talking can be like? It might not be what it’s supposed to be like, but—“Ah, ah, ah! Runaway!” Like these are—it’s all okay. It’s all okay. A year from now, when everything is quote-unquote “normal”—I feel like the post-pandemic should be like “when we have our body back.” [Laughs.] Right? Like, it’s not gonna be this—
crosstalk
Biz: Just like you have kids, you’re never going back. This pandemic—never going back. Theresa: You’re never going back. We’re never going back. [Laughs.]
biz
Not gonna have our pre-COVID life back. Alright? But like— [Laughs.] But I—I don’t know where I was going with that. So I’m just gonna shut up. I’m gonna say—
theresa
Clothes on. Cameras off. [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.]
biz
You’re doing a horrible job.
music
“Mom Song” by Adira Amram. Mellow piano music with lyrics. You are the greatest mom I’ve ever known. I love you, I love you. When I have a problem, I call you on the phone. I love you, I love you. [Music fades out.]
music
Inspirational keyboard music plays in background.
theresa
One Bad Mother is supported in part by Grove. Grove Collaborative delivers healthy home, beauty, and personal care products directly to you.
biz
I have been wanting—I’ve said this—to switch to more environmentally-friendly products and just like so many other people? I had a really hard time figuring out where to start that didn’t lead me down a really unfortunate rabbit hole. I want my rabbits to be taken care of! Friendly-like! [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] And that’s why Grove Collaborative is so great. I have enjoyed switching every single one of my laundry products, as well as all of the soaps in our house.
theresa
Making the switch to natural products has never been easier. So for a limited time, when One Bad Mother listeners go to Grove.co/badmother, you will get to choose a special free gift with your first order of $30 or more. Use our special code.
clip
James Arthur M.: Folks, it’s me—James Arthur M., host of Minority Korner! Your home through these bewiled times for weekly doses of pop culture, history, news, nerdy stuff, and more—through a BIPOC, queer, and allied lens. That’s how you get Joel Schumacher putting nipples on Batman! Speaker 2: Yeah! [Overlapping] James: I didn’t ask—And I say this as a gay— Speaker 2: Sorry—no! James: I say this as the gay man—didn’t ask for it. I don’t need to see Batman’s nipples on his suit. Who is this for?! Speaker 2: Who is this for? Speaker 3: I did a bunch of research. I wanted to just know about the history of Black people in Argentina. So not only did they erase Black people from their history, they also started to flip and use it as slurs. James: We’re not done. Like, we’re not done with the work that needs to be done? Speaker 3: Yeah. James: And so stay awake. So join me and some of your new BFFs every Friday here on Maximum Fun to stay informed, empowered, and have some fun! Minority Korner—because together, we’re the majority.
clip
Music: Tense sci-fi music. [Announcer narrates in voiceover intercut with dialogue from the show. Dialogue is slightly fuzzy, as if being heard through a speaker.] Announcer: Strange planets, curious technology, and a fantastic vision of the distant future. Featuring Martin Starr. Martin Starr: So we're going on day 14. Shuttle still hasn't come. Announcer: Aparna Nancherla. Aparna Nancherla: [Cheerful and electronic] The security system provides you with emotional security! You do the rest! Announcer: Echo Kellum. Echo Kellum: Can you disconnect me, or not? Announcer: Hari Kondabolu. Hari Kondabolu: I'm staying. Announcer: From Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Geoffrey McGivern. Geoffrey McGivern: Could you play Cyndi Lauper's "Girls Just Want to Have Fun"? Announcer: It's The Outer Reach: Stories from Beyond. Announcer 2: Now available for free at MaximumFun.org, or anywhere you listen. [Music fades out.]
biz
[Singing] It’s that tiiiiiime againnn! [Regular voice] Time… to settle in with you, Theresa. Settling. Settling—and not settling for!—but settling in. With you. To listen… to a mom have a breakdown.
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Hello, One Bad Mother! This is a really stupid rant. So some good friends of ours just had their second baby. And it was a terrifying, precipitous labor and then they delivered the baby on the floor of their bathroom. And as terrifying and stressful as I’m sure that is? [Laughs.] I’m working through some feelings of really ridiculous jealousy because my friend got to have her baby without any medical stuff between her and her baby and the experience. And I’ve had two c-sections that I wasn’t really delighted with. So as horrifying as I’m sure it was to deliver the baby at home with no help, I’m like, “Wow. That must’ve been great to be able to have a body that could do that. And it was just this intense moment with you and your family and none of the other crap.” So that’s pretty dumb of me, I know. Thanks, One Bad Mother. Bye.
biz
First of all, you’re doing a really good job. And I really appreciate you calling this in and sharing it? ‘Cause it’s definitely one of those feelings that I think in varying degrees and with varying different situations is a real feeling experience. I myself have talked about, y’know, sort of that weird—I don’t want any more children. ‘K? I’m very happy with what we’ve done in this house. But there’s still part of me that feels like I didn’t do those births right. I need to do it one more time to do it right. Like, whatever that is. And… you’re not dumb for having these feelings! It just shows you how crazy we all are! [Theresa laughs.] We’re all just… nutballs! Obviously, you’re not like, “Wow. You had that baby at me. Serious, scary, terrifying, risk-high situation.” We all know that. You know that. And we all know that your friend who went through that? Is probably still processing a lot of things themselves. “What would it have been like in the hospital? What would it have been like if it went the way I had planned it?” Right? ‘Cause that’s what this all comes down to, isn’t it? “Is it what I thought it would be?”
theresa
I think it’s one of those things where… y’know… when we’re growing up and we’re thinking about becoming parents, we receive so many messages about those—that birth—what your birth will be and those first moments with your baby. And usually those messages do not involve all of the stuff that many of us actually go through in those times. And even in my experiences—which were hospital—all three were hospital births—there were—it was very medical! Y’know? Even with the ones that were not quote-unquote “medicated.” It was still very much in a hospital and very medical and… I just think there is something about the idea of a home birth? Even if… yeah—you correctly point out—your friend is probably dealing with some trauma around that situation being unplanned. That was not a planned home birth. But the idea of that seems to jive so much more with—I think—the messages I received growing up about “your body just does it” and it’s just— [Biz laughs.] Y’know, “We’re made to do this and your body will know what to do and you’ll be surrounded by family and you’ll meet your—” like, we just don’t—we don’t talk about the medical stuff because that’s not—I dunno!
biz
You’re not jealous that your friend had a traumatic birth experience on the floor of her kitchen or bathroom. You’re upset because—or you’re jealous of a style of delivery that was something you personally wanted. You did not want, “Oh my god! We’re going into labor here!” You wanted something probably at home with music. A bathtub. Candles. Right? Like, eighteen doulas. Whatever it is! I mean, we’ve talked about it on the show! I am still—I—I wish I was as strong as Theresa to have not had medication. Right? And I know—she’s rolling her eyes at me. And I know! Right? It’s all set up. [Laughs.] For these feelings to come out. And I think it’s really—I think it’s really important that we allow ourselves to have them? And forgive ourselves? For having them? And—
theresa
This is not a small—like, it’s okay to be processing pain and sadness and grief about this. This is… totally valid.
biz
I think we just have to remember to… be kind to ourselves and to be kind to our friends. Right? Just remember—remember it’s normal. You’re okay. You’re not a bad person.
theresa
You’re pretty great, I think.
crosstalk
Theresa: As far as I can tell. Yeah. You seem like a really caring friend. Honestly. Yeah. Biz: Actually, I think you’re pretty great. Yeah. I’m really—I know!
biz
And I appreciate the guts it took to call that call in! It’s not an easy thing to admit. I think you’re fucking amazing!
theresa
Me, too.
biz
Yeah. Theresa? I think you’re amazing! I was thinking the other day about one of our first conversations before we started the show. I had posted a picture of a quilt that I had made on Facebook. This is so long ago, guys. We both just had one kid. And— [Theresa laughs.] —And Theresa was like, “Well, y’know, when I—” we were talking about things that people don’t talk about as parents or what would be interesting conversations for the show. And you were like, “I resented that quilt. I thought you were making that quilt at me. It was really hard to not feel like it was like, ‘Biz has all the time in the world!’” And I was like, “Well… what wasn’t shown was that quilt took a year. Right? And it’s not very good and it’s small and it’s like—” Y’know? But I was thinking just the other day—as I was finishing doing a small project that has taken over— [Theresa laughs.] —months to do that should’ve taken an hour. And I thought, “I’m so glad I’m at that place where I no longer feel bad about that?” And I’m so glad I’m at a place with Theresa where I hope she knows that that’s okay, too? _[Laughs.]_That everything still sucks for me too! Right? But like… I think—I just like that place? I like… everybody gets to have joy?
theresa
Yes! We can achieve stuff and be proud of our achievements while we also are very much struggling. [Biz laughs.] In our lives. Yeah.
biz
Yes! Yes. So with that said, thank you for being a friend. [Singing] Duh, duh, duh, duhhh! [Theresa laughs.] [Regular voice] And you’re doing such a good job!
theresa
Thanks, Biz. So are you.
biz
Thank you. And I’ll talk to you next week!
theresa
Cool.
biz
Bye!
theresa
Bye!
biz
Everybody? What did we learn today? Well… I don’t know. I think we learned I am so thankful for creators like Lisa Lim. Y’know, it… is… such… a lesson that we should have learned over and over and over and over already. That when pandemics, disease, any of these things, become prevalent in our lives, that the first thing people wanna do is blame someone else. It’s important that we speak up! Mm-kay? So we keep learning that lesson and I look forward to the day we don’t have to learn that fucking lesson ever again because we’ve all become better. [Laughs.] Anyhoo. We also learned that the pandemic continues to make life challenging and choices hard to make and that, y’know, just because suddenly there are more choices doesn’t mean that it’s easy to know what to do for your particular family. Theresa and I were talking off-air about as the schools start to open back up, all the different schedules that the kids are now on? ‘Cause it’s impossible for—I make—I have no expectations of a school trying to figure out how to get my kids at the school at the same time, as well as everybody else who’s got multiple kids all at the school at the same time. And navigate all the restrictions and things they need to set up. So I have zero expectation of that. But it does present a new problem of navigating schedules and navigating, y’know, younger children who are remote on one day while an older child is in school and—I mean, it’s a lot! And sometimes our schools aren’t close. Sometimes our kids are in multiple schools. Hooray. Everybody? You are doing really a remarkable job. You really are. You were doing an amazing job before the pandemic and now you are going above and beyond. You are doing it! Honk, honk! You are doing it. And I see you. I will talk to you next week. Bye!
music
“Mama Blues” by Cornbread Ted and the Butterbeans. Strumming acoustic guitar with harmonica and lyrics. I got the lowdown momma blues Got the the lowdown momma blues Gots the lowdown momma blues The lowdown momma blues. Gots the lowdown momma blues Got the lowdown momma blues You know that’s right. [Music fades somewhat, plays in background of dialogue.]
biz
We’d like to thank MaxFun; our producer, Gabe Mara; our husbands, Stefan Lawrence and Jesse Thorn; our perfect children, who provide us with inspiration to say all these horrible things; and of course, you, our listeners. To find out more about the songs you heard on today’s podcast and more about the show, please go to MaximumFun.org/onebadmother. For information about live shows, our book and press, please check out OneBadMotherPodcast.com.
theresa
One Bad Mother is a member of the Maximum Fun family of podcasts. To support the show go to MaximumFun.org/donate. [Music continues for a while before fading out.]
music
A cheerful ukulele chord.
speaker 2
Comedy and culture.
speaker 3
Artist owned—
speaker 4
—Audience supported.
About the show
One Bad Mother is a comedy podcast hosted by Biz Ellis about motherhood and how unnatural it sometimes is. We aren’t all magical vessels!
Join us every week as we deal with the thrills and embarrassments of motherhood and strive for less judging and more laughing.
Call in your geniuses and fails: 206-350-9485. For booking and guest ideas, please email onebadmother@maximumfun.org. To keep up with One Bad Mother on social media, follow @onebadmothers on Twitter and Instagram.
Get in touch with the show
onebadmother@maximumfun.org
@OneBadMothers
@onebadmothers
How to listen
Stream or download episodes directly from our website, or listen via your favorite podcatcher!
