Transcript
biz
Hi. I’m Biz.
theresa
And I’m Theresa.
biz
Due to the pandemic, we bring you One Bad Mother straight from our homes—including such interruptions as: children! Animal noises! And more! So let’s all get a little closer while we have to be so far apart. And remember—we are doing a good job.
music
“Summoning the Rawk” by Kevin MacLeod. Driving electric guitar and heavy drums. [Continues through dialogue.]
biz
This week on One Bad Mother—is a symptom of the coronavirus mind reading? I hope so! Biz is joined by her partner Stefan to talk about communication in the time of COVID. Plus, Biz might not be like other parents.
crosstalk
Biz and caller: Woooo!
caller
So I’m doing… I’m okay. I’m getting obsessed with skincare and makeup right now because I was exposed to corona. And now I have to, y’know, telework until I can get tested. And… it’s just a whole mess! But you guys are keeping me sane. So hope you’re doing well, Biz. And staying safe. I hope you’re doing great, Theresa, and I hope everyone else out there is doing good. Bye! [Biz laughs.]
biz
Thank you so much for calling. And wooing with me! Also… yeah, I feel like we should—during the pandemic—maybe we should identify… time… instead of by hours and minutes, by phases? [Laughs.] By phases and cycles of interests we have as people. The—like—makeup/skincare one? Guys, I only have to like see Hannah for the most part? Or like other parents for school-related stuff? So I have always set that bar pretty low? Which is a good thing for me, I think. But I know that what I see in the image? I’m like, “Oh my god. I’m—I must be like 80 years old or—y’know, like, ah, the lighting and the like—oh, I should really use some makeup! That would—maybe that would be a thing!” Or—I will say, I’ve gotten very into the skincare since this. Because… it makes a lot of sense. And it feels like a… self-care thing to… invest a little in? [Laughs.] And also, my skin’s not gonna see the sun for ever. So let’s—[Laughs.] See if we can turn back time! Um… but you’re doing… an amazing job. And—sorry you were exposed to the virus. I just—that whole waiting for testing. It’s just—I’m so sorry. Thank you so much for wooing with me. You are doing… an amazing job. Just like you are all doing an amazing job. And I have been having such a fun time with the woos that I think we should keep doing them! So from here on out, the Hotline is open for not only genius, fails, and rants, but if you wanna woo with me and do a little check-in? Do it! And we will just keep playing them for eternity. [Laughs.]
biz
But I think that actually shifts us in well to… what we’re always doing nowadays during the pandemic, and that is—[singsong voice] thanking! Essential workers! And more! Woo! [Regular voice] First off, essential workers. Every time I hear that, I love it more. Let’s put the importance on all the roles that just don’t get seen. And so I just say—thank you, thank you, thank you. Medical workers—and I’ve said it before—it’s not just the wonderful medical providers inside the hospital, but it’s the data entry people. It’s—y’know—the people who are running labs. And the people who are transferring patients and making sure that the hospitals and doctors’ offices stay clean. Thank you, thank you. Thank you to all those who are working on treatments or vaccines for this. Thank you to the teachers. It’s school time for a lot of people. And… I just wanna say I 100% support teachers? And whatever they need to do to feel… safe. This is a weird, weird time. I—yeah! Yes! I would like my children back in school for a number of reasons. [Laughs.] From their well-being to my well-being. But I also… need my teachers to be safe? I need their well-being to play into this as well. So I just wanna say—teachers, I see you. Thank you for all you’re doing in trying to adapt to virtual learning or just keeping it safe in the classrooms. And special shoutout this week to the postal service! The lovely people who are delivering our mail under the most insane circumstances ever. Guys? I love mail. I still send a lot of mail. Let’s go out and support the postal service by sending a shit-ton of mail, guys! Get out there! Mail a lot! Call your… representatives and tell them to support the mail service! Because they’re out there and they are essential workers. And they are out every day making sure that all those skincare boxes get to us. [Laughs.] As well as birthday cards and—I know—and bills. But yeah. We gotta… do things. All of it! Thank you, thank you. And most important, they are going to be making it possible for us to have an election this year. So… thank you. Let’s keep our eyes open. Also, I haven’t said recently to the lovely Theresa how much I miss you? And how much I am thinking of you. And what an amazing job I know you are doing. And I see you.
biz
Now, how am I? Well—[Laughs.] I had one of those moments where… I thought to myself, “Maybe I am not like other parents.” Now—[Laughs.] That should not come as a huge shock. I used to say that this show was not for everyone. [Laughs.] It was for everyone else. Right? Like—we’re—[Laughs.] Like, most of us are just trying to do our best. We’re not in heels. We’re not Pinterest-perfect. We are the ones to say, “This is hard” or “I’m celebrating no one pooping in the tub today.” Okay? That is who we are and that is a good thing. So I’m on this, like, Zoom call—actually, I was on it as a fundraiser for school board. Because all election positions are important! Not me. I’m not running. [Laughs.] But I know someone who’s running and I was supporting them in this like wine tasting Zoom chitchat fundraiser. And… it’s me and like 20 other parents. And so we all go around and we’re supposed to introduce ourselves and say our names; how old our kids are; and something embarrassing that might’ve happened during the pandemic so far. So I was definitely one of the last people to go. And they’re going around and—outside of the one guy who was honest about having not been aware on a work call that his camera was on and he was just like laying in bed falling asleep? [Laughs.] That—clearly—is one of my new friends. Everybody else didn’t come up with embarrassing moments; they instead came up with—they were all saying things like, “Y’know? It’s been hard. Y’know, having to work from home. But I gotta tell ya—I’ve really been enjoying spending all this it—” [Laughs.] I can’t even get it out. “Time with my kids.” And I just—just, like, one after the other said it and I—it comes to me and I was like, “I’m not.” [Laughs.] Just to this stony-faced group. Eventually I just said, “Oh, my connection’s bad! I gotta go!” Click! “Thanks for the wine!” [Laughs.]
biz
I sat down and I thought, “Okay. Look at how much I’ve grown. I’m not gonna sit here and say they’re the crazy ones. I’m gonna try and think about… why. They all seem to be having this experience.” Now, one—I have a job that is flexible and was easy to work from home. For the most part, I was around the children all the time anyway! [Laughs.] Right? So… I don’t know what Stefan’s experience is, because he’s just in this bedroom locked in all day. So technically he’s not spending more time with the children. But I’ve spent plenty of time with the children over the last 11 years, and… so this… while yes—there are moments where I feel like, “Oh, y’know what? I’m really—this is nice!” Like, I do have those moments where I think, “This is nice.” And “Wow, I can see how we’re developing and like we’re entering a really great, like, time with the kids and like everybody’s doing great.” And there are really, really nice times. It’s not my top experience of the pandemic, though. [Laughs.] So—but then I was like, “Alright. So why would it be somebody else’s?” And I totally get that if you… were always away, and you wound up having to have childcare all the time. After-school programs. And all of that. While it is probably a tremendous shift to suddenly have to work from home… you are also getting to see your kids a lot more! And I—and a lot of these people had slightly older kids? Like, young teens to teens? And I thought, “Y’know, if movies are correct, this is the time where teens start pulling away.” And so if you’re all together it is, like, a nice opportunity to be with your kids? So I get it. I get it. And I… I just—it’s just not my first instinct in a social [through laughter] situation to admit it? So there ya go. But again, it’s just a reminder. We’re all having different experiences and all of those experiences are viable and relevant and… not to discredit the other experience. It’s sort of like the experience Stefan and I are having. We don’t… we’re all in the same house, but his experience is different than my experience. And… it turns out communication is pretty important when you’re all sheltering in place. Which ties in nicely to what we’re gonna talk about today, which is—communication in the time of COVID.
music
Banjo strums; cheerful banjo music continues through dialogue.
theresa
Please—take a moment to remember: If you’re friends of the hosts of One Bad Mother, you should assume that when we talk about other moms, we’re talking about you.
biz
If you are married to the host of One Bad Mother, we definitely are talking about you.
theresa
Nothing we say constitutes professional parenting advice.
biz
Biz and Theresa’s children are brilliant, lovely, and exceedingly extraordinary.
theresa
Nothing said on this podcast about them implies otherwise. [Banjo music fades out.] [Biz and Stefan repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss the weekly topic.]
biz
Joining me this week—here in the fabulous One Bad Mother studio—coming to you from a cardboard box inside my bedroom—is my partner, Stefan. Some of you may know him from previous shows or being the father of my children. Or… I don’t know. What do you do?
stefan
I’m just here in the house all the time. [Laughs.]
biz
Yeah! You—[Laughs.] I know him from being in the house!
stefan
Being in the house—
crosstalk
Stefan: —all… the time. Biz: All… the time.
biz
Stefan is joining me today to talk about communication during the time of a pandemic and… that’s gonna go one of two ways. It’s gonna go really smoothly and insightfully? Or we’re gonna discover that our communication is not any good and you’re gonna get to listen to us— [Stefan laughs.] —try to check in on our marriage.
stefan
Yeah. I mean, here’s—you mentioned that the theme was gonna be communication and little red flag went up in my head— [Biz laughs.] —and I was, like, “Is this a trick?” Is this—
biz
It’s a trick!
stefan
It’s a really cool trick in which we get to talk about the things [through laughter] that I’m not communicating to you. [Biz laughs.]
biz
[With Admiral Ackbar’s inflection] “It’s a trap!” So let’s just start off with the most important question in any relationship. And I think this holds especially true during the pandemic if you are with your partner all the time. And children. And, uh, living space. And that is… can you read my mind?
stefan
100% not.
crosstalk
Biz: Oh? See, I was excited to hear—what am I thinking? Stefan: Yeah, I know! It’s not—okay.
biz
What am I thinking right now?
stefan
Uh, ace of spades.
biz
No, I was thinking about Barry Manilow.
crosstalk
Stefan: [With disappointment] Oh. I’m never gonna get this right. Biz: God!
biz
No. No you aren’t! Welcome to One Bad Mother! Okay.
stefan
12 years in. [Biz laughs.]
biz
Alright. So for real. It’s been over five months. And… we’ve talked before on this show about communication. I—one of your very first shows, you came on and we talked about sort of the early stages of marriage and… holidays? Yeah. And like… how do you communicate and what you imagine a holiday to be like. And how to integrate that with each other. [Laughs.] But now… we’re in a pandemic. Which isn’t much of a holiday.
stefan
Or it’s a really long holiday.
crosstalk
Biz: Oh, it’s a really—we’re like the Europeans now! [Laughs.] Stefan: It’s a really—[Laughs.]
biz
So I wanna start by asking you—when you realized this was all going down and we were going to be here—did you have any… like… thoughts or moments of… “Huh, I wonder what this will be like” or “Should I—should we be—“ Anything. Did you—did you—
crosstalk
Stefan: Did I think about it at all, is what you’re asking? Okay, okay. Good. Really just—did anything even occur to you. Biz: Yeah. I guess that’s what I’m asking. Yeah. Let’s just go right to that. Yeah. [Laughs.]
stefan
I think—well, alright. I did—okay. So I erroneously—I think in the beginning, especially when it wasn’t clear how long it was gonna go for—was basically assuming that I was gonna translate “being at work” to “being at work at home.” [Biz laughs.] And that I would just “go to work”—I’m making little finger quotes here.
biz
Yeah. He’s making the finger quotes.
stefan
My finger quotes about “go to work” and then I’d disappear into the bedroom and then I come out when work is over. And very quickly it was a little like—that’s not going to be enough in the communication department, for instance. [Biz laughs.]
biz
No.
stefan
Or the taking care of each other department or any of it. And so, y’know, I have remained extremely lucky that I have had work to do and I’ve been able to continue to work from home. But I think we’ve had to sort of monitor and check in and alter how that actually works. Continually during this entire time.
biz
Yeah. I think that’s the big one. Is it’s a continuous… check in. I think for me, too, it was, “This is not gonna be forever.” Like, not the very beginning. I mean—okay.
crosstalk
Biz: That’s not true. At the very beginning I was like— Stefan: I mean, it’s still not forever.
biz
We’re not going back to school. But—y’know, before summer. But… I don’t think I had thought about how long we would be working in the same space. For such an extended period of time. Like, that—I think my focus was more, “I’m gonna have children around me all the time,” not so much “Stefan around all the time.”
stefan
Right. And yet it actually does feel like me actually being in the house is worse than if I weren’t here.
biz
This was always true. For us. When… ‘cause you used to do a lot of freelance when we had Katy Belle. And even for a little while with Ellis, you were, like, in and out of working from home. And… that was different than now, I feel like? But there were lots of times where like, I just flat-out said, “I can’t—"
crosstalk
Stefan: “Can’t see you.” Biz: “I can’t have you here.”
biz
Yeah. I can’t see you. If I see you, I’m gonna ask you for help. And, y’know, I don’t… like, back then—because of young children—it was really easy to get resentful? Just watching you come out for like a coffee.
crosstalk
Stefan: Right. I remember. “Oh, I’m just emerging for—to go to the coffee shop!” Yeah. Biz: Like, that used to—that’s right! “I don’t have to do anything!”
biz
“I can just go to the bathroom whenever.”
crosstalk
Stefan: Whenever I want to. Exactly. Biz: That’s right.
biz
That said, I feel like… this time… while there are a lot of similarities to a newborn forest… all of us being home during the pandemic has felt different. It has not felt like it did… with a baby. And I don’t know if that’s just because I had a lot of therapy? [Laughs.] Or the children are older? Or—that we’re communicating better.
stefan
Better. And differently.
crosstalk
Biz: And differently. Yeah. Stefan: Well, I think a big part of that is that they’re not babies. Right?
biz
I think, like… turns out we like children? [Laughs.]
biz
Yeah. Not babies. Not babies. We’re not baby people.
stefan
No, but we love children.
crosstalk
Biz and Stefan: Yeah, children are great!
stefan
Oh, yeah. I think—y’know, I think we’ve gotten better at communicating with the children, too? I think we are very eager to impose a sort of—this structured “family meeting time”— [Biz laughs.] —in the beginning of this thing. Like, we’re going to try to replicate some of what school kind of was doing? And so we were like, “Hey, we’re gonna talk about the weather and what’s gonna happen today and all the things.” And it’s devolved into now what is eternally, like—it’s kind of a bit of a circus, the way we do family meeting now?
biz
So ever morning… so you guys can just pretend you’re in our house—
stefan
Set the stage.
biz
Every morning used to be, with school, would be like, “Alright, let’s have a family meeting. What’s everybody got on their schedules today? Let’s make a schedule for Ellis. What’s your schedule gonna be like, Stefan, so I know when I can rely on you and like, blah, blah, blah. And if I have anything I need to do—"
crosstalk
Stefan: Very formal. It was very formal. And then we played a game. And then we got to talk about a thing. Yeah, yeah. Biz: It was very formal. Now—and we played a game! Like, a little bonding and—oh, yeah!
biz
Now… it’s become—
crosstalk
Biz and Stefan: [Singing together] “It’s family meeting time! It’s family meeting time!” Biz: And then when everybody comes in, you— Biz and Stefan: [singing] “Announcements, announcements. Who’s got an announcement? Announcement, announcement—"
biz
[Still singing] “Does Katy Belle have an announcement?”
stefan
And then Katy Belle is like, “Ugh, I kinda do.” And she raises her hand and barely tolerates this family.
biz
Yeah. She—yeah. Katy Belle barely tolerates this family right now. Which is fine. Ellis usually has no announcement other than—
stefan
“I love momma so much!”
biz
Yep. That’s—
stefan
“I just wanna be on momma!”
biz
Yep. Or “I’d like to win. Can I play Mario?” Stefan will then chime in—Stefan—do you have an announcement?
stefan
I’ve been working on some cool jokes recently.
biz
Yeah. That’s—he just comes in with like jokes. And I’m like—
crosstalk
Biz: This is gonna derail the family meeting really fast. Stefan: Nobody likes them. It’s—exactly.
stefan
It’s definitely like a—yeah. I’m using it to poke a little bit.
biz
Yeah. You do—are using it to poke! Yeah. Yeah!
stefan
[Through laughter] I am using it to poke. But it’s like—
biz
But there are lots of things we discover when we’re all together. All the time. And Stefan… likes to poke.
stefan
Sometimes. I do—y’know.
biz
You like to poke until somebody pokes you and then you’re like—
crosstalk
Biz: [In stern voice] “I don’t like being poked!” [Laughs.] Stefan: “Well now I’m—now I’m grumpy about it!”
stefan
“Can’t believe this dynamic has backfired in any way!”
biz
Like I said, we’re just gonna talk about our marriage publicly. But yes. I do think—in terms of family communication?—that actually has helped a lot because—I mean, even if right after the family meeting it goes right into TV and like videogames all day? It—
stefan
Not alllll dayyyy.
crosstalk
Biz and Stefan: Most of the day.
stefan
But, y’know.
biz
Yeah. I would say that like… it’s—it actually is something everybody participates in. It does let us know what’s going on, which helps alleviate the stress of—“Oh, I forgot you had a thing!” Or like—and for me, it helps me a lot when… you actually share, like, what your schedule is so if I know that you’re on calls from 9 o’clock until lunch, I know to—that you’re out. That you’re off. But if you’re like, “I’ve got some holes during the day,” and you no longer say “I’ve got holes—but I have to do all—” Like, so like, “Don’t even ask me during the holes.” Like, now I think we’ve communicated enough that it’s like, “Too bad. If I need you during those or if I need to take a walk—"
stefan
To step into those holes.
biz
Yeah. I’m just gonna step in ‘em and track my dirty shoes—
crosstalk
Biz: [through laughter] all through them. Right. Stefan: All over it. Yeah.
biz
But like, it does help us… know. Because… even though it’s different than the first time, we’ve had to speak a couple of times. I think one of the first communication things that we had to land on was, like… you were baking and that was great, but it was just that like you could walk out of work and start baking and yes! It was for the family and it was really nice.
crosstalk
Stefan: But really it was for me. Biz: ‘Cause we all—
biz
But it was for you.
stefan
It was for me and there happened to be some side benefits for other people.
biz
Yeah. But none of those side benefits were like watching children or engaging with them.
stefan
No.
biz
And so—
stefan
Well, and it’s also—like it’s confusing also how different it is—with the kids are with me than they are with you.
biz
Yeah.
stefan
Right? Like, I could probably like go out and bake and Ellis would be like, “Well, I’m not gonna bother him. I’m gonna go play Magna-Tiles or something.” If you’re out there baking, then it’s like, “Momma? Let’s do something. Let’s do something. Let’s do something.”
crosstalk
Biz: Yeah. It’s a constant interruption. Stefan: And it’s totally different.
stefan
And that can feel super unfair, even though I’m not doing anything. [Biz laughs.] Right? Where it’s completely just like—that’s just a resentment machine?
biz
Oh, yeah!
stefan
That—
biz
Feed my dollars right into that!
stefan
Right? But—[Laughs.] It’s horrible.
crosstalk
Stefan and Biz: Who bought this resentment machine? Stefan: Get this out of here! It was really cheap! Biz: Stefan, how many times have I said just check before you order things? Like I—
biz
[Through laughter] After the Jabba the Hutt barge, I’ve been really clear about it. [Stefan grumbles.] But it was cheap. But you’re right. I think… I think communicating that awareness and being more aware of it? Helps. With the communication. Because then it’s not just—you’re out. It’s… you’re out. You recognize that’s not the same thing as me being… gone. Right? And… I think it allows for us to fine-tune that when we’re in those situations. That said, it was less about resentment that you were baking—or whatever it is—it was just that like… I had begun to feel very invisible as the parent. Like, wait a second, why am I suddenly all in charge? Why does my work have to suffer? Why does my—
stefan
Right. ‘Cause your work has continued just as everybody else’s has. Right. And so—yeah.
biz
Right! Just because it’s—y’know—not something I have to do from an office doesn’t make it, like, less important. And… I just remember having those moments of like, “Did your work even acknowledge that you have kids or that you would maybe have to tweak what you’re doing to—“ Y’know, no. So… it… it definitely was something that then falls to us and anybody in a partnered relationship. To have to start to… pick through. So I’ll—I’ll ask this. ‘Cause I’ve worked really—[Laughs.] I’ve tried to work hard on how to communicate best. Is there something that, like, if you were like, “Well, this is how Biz and I communicate.” Y’know. “And this is what works and this is what doesn’t work or—” Right? Like—
stefan
Well here’s what I think it has forced us to do? ‘Cause previously we’ve had a lot of sort of communication where it’s—you will sit on something. And now it’s a giant problem that just goes—
crosstalk
Biz and Stefan: [Vomiting noise] Blehhhh!
stefan
And then I have to be like, “Oh, okay.” And it doesn’t feel like anything that I say then can fix anything because it’s so gigantic and like a mess of like resentment. [Biz laughs.]
biz
“I need another dollar, mom! I’ve gotta feed some more into the resentment machine!”
stefan
But what I think this has forced you to do is say things earlier. Like, I actually really appreciated you came out and were like, “Hey. I feel like I’m doing all the housework in this house. All the time. So can we figure that out?” And you—I think you said it—you caught it before it was… a horrible thing?
crosstalk
Biz: It was just a bad thing. It hadn’t gotten to, like, “horrible.” Stefan: It was just a—right. It was a bad thing. And—
stefan
It hadn’t gotten to like where it was mixed up in all these other feelings of like, “And this is—I feel resentful about this and this and this and this.” It was, “Alright. This is actually now something that we can actually wrap our hands around.” And I’ve been trying to be better about it… and staying more on top of? I know. [Biz laughs.] It—like—I—y’know.
biz
No, I know. It’s…
stefan
I dunno. I—at least I wash the bath mats. [Laughs.]
crosstalk
Stefan: More often. [Laughs.] So there’s that. Biz: Yes. That is a big plus. The bath mats are clean.
stefan
But working on not having gross sinks!
biz
Yeah. We’re working on not having gross sinks. But… as trivial as that sounds, it does—it is important. ‘Cause… it means that my time is not… like… as the one who has wound up having to be the primary during this… that shouldn’t mean that I am then devoid of any time and have to take on all jobs. Right? Like—and… y’know, I think… for us in particular, y’know, it’s that the problem that recurs that we have to communicate on a lot is… remembering the things we’ve already talked about. Right? Yeah.
stefan
Yeah. And something that’s—I think—plays into that is that you and I have really, really different brains. Right?
crosstalk
Biz: Oh, yeah! This just in, guys! Stefan and I—Capricorn, Cancer. Stefan: Right. The—yeah. You and I—not the same brain.
stefan
Because that’s what determines it. Um— [Biz laughs.] No. But like, I have… I usually have like one track that I’m thinking about and while I’m thinking about that tracks, there’s no other tracks that are happening. Right? I have a very linear brain and I like—so I don’t have like a multi-threaded thing at all. You, on the other hand, usually have about six narratives going at any given time. [Biz laughs.] There’s squirrels in there! [Biz laughs.] But like—right? And—which is—makes you very good at certain things but it also makes it so that we are not always thinking about the same stuff. So I’ll be thinking about when I’m working at work—doing work!
biz
You’re thinking about work!
stefan
That’s what I’m doing. Right? And then I can’t also be like, “And then I also have to do x, y, and z.” I have to make a lot of lists in order to sort of, like, hack that portion of my brain and sort of like keep me on track? Like, so like… that’s helpful for me. But you and I think about things in very sort of different ways and if it’s not right in front of me then I’m usually not thinking about it.
biz
Yeah! No. I know. Yeah.
crosstalk
Stefan: Which is—no, but I—no— Biz: Yeah. Oh, I know! No, I’m just kidding. [Laughs.]
stefan
But I see how frustrating that would be! Because you’re like, “I’ve already thought of these things. Why aren’t you also thinking about them?” I’m—yeah. I’m just not unless it’s right in front of me or something. [Biz makes frustrated noise.]
biz
Yes. Yes. Ha, ha. Biz and Stefan—[Laughs.]
stefan
These are—[Laughs.]
crosstalk
Stefan: There’s a—hilarious differences! Between Biz’s and Stefan’s. Biz: Biz is from Venus. Yeah. I know.
biz
Between Biz’s and Stefan’s. No, but I think the thing—if somebody were to ask me how are you getting through it—[Laughs.] I would have to say it’s because… we still like each other.
crosstalk
Stefan: Thank god. Biz: I know.
biz
And the humor. Helps a lot. Until I’m crying.
stefan
Until it’s, like, offensive.
crosstalk
Stefan: That I’m making jokes. Biz: Until it’s offensive. Yeah.
biz
Until it’s not funny anymore.
stefan
No.
biz
But I think that helps with communication. Like, I’d like to think that… y’know, mind reading aside, that’s like one of those things we had to get rid of right away. There was no—and it’s not mind reading. It’s just that. Why aren’t you thinking about it the same way I’m thinking about it?
stefan
Right.
biz
Yeah. Anything we could improve on?
stefan
God, I don’t know! That’s incredibly difficult! I wasn’t thinking about it! [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.]
biz
Goddammit!
music
“Ones and Zeroes” by “Awesome.” Steady, driving electric guitar with drum and woodwinds. [Music fades out.]
biz
Laid-back acoustic guitar music plays in the background.
biz
One Bad Mother is supported in part by Booknicks. A teacher-facilitated, interactive subscription box and online book club for middle-grade readers. I cannot tell you how excited Katy Belle was to get her first Booknicks box. And we open it and it turned out to be one of her favorite books, The Girl Who Drank the Moon. And even though she’d already read it? She picked it up. Was reading it again. And… it came with this beautiful welcome letter. How to start getting prompts through email. And origami paper and a note saying that—at the end of this particular book club—they would be doing an origami project, which ties into the book. A curated selection of books for different reading and developmental levels is offered every month, along with big idea questions; weekly emailed reading guides; and monthly activities that correspond with the theme of the book to help readers engage more deeply with the material. And at the end of the month, children can participate in an interactive, teacher-led, virtual book club with teachers and other students from around the country! Get 20% off your first month at Booknicks.com when you use the promo code “BAD20” at Booknicks.com.
theresa
Hey, you know what it’s time for! This week’s genius and fails! This is the part of the show where we share our genius moment of the week, as well as our failures, and feel better about ourselves by hearing yours. You can share some of your own by calling 206-350-9485. That’s 206-350-9485.
biz
Genius fail time. Stefan? Genius me!
clip
[Dramatic, swelling music in background.] Biz: Wow! Oh my God! Oh my God! I saw what you did! Oh my God! I’m paying attention! Wow! You, mom, are a genius. Oh my God, that’s fucking genius! [Biz and Stefan repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective genius moments of the week.]
stefan
Okay. So… yeah! Alright. So actually I’m pretty excited about this. So for a long time, Biz and I would share the reading duties with Ellis. We’d sort of go back and forth. It would be sort of like—right. She would do a book. I would do a book. That sort of a thing. But for the past maybe—
crosstalk
Biz and Stefan: —year—
stefan
—or so, it’s nobody’s been good enough and so it’s only been mama, mama, mama, mama, mama, do the books. And I’ve been sort of—kind of just… y’know, a little bit, like, a little sad about it! Because I like reading to Ellis! And especially, like, ‘cause I’m reading Swedish books to him. Like, that just has fallen out of the picture. And during the day, he has zero interest— [Biz laughs.] —usually, in like having any sort of book read at all. But one night, like about maybe like two weeks ago? Three weeks ago? I was like, “Hey, how about a bonus book?” And he was like, [gasps] “Bonus book?” [Biz laughs.] And it sounded like he was gonna get more than he used to. [Biz laughs.] And so we brushed teeth and then we went in and we did a bonus book and he was really excited about it and now—[sigh of relief.] It’s gotten reincorporated back into the routine. I get to read a book and then “Mama!!!” gets to read a book. But it’s been really nice because I’ll actually be able to like—especially since he’s reading now? He actually is also sounding out some Swedish words and we get to work on that and so that’s really fun. And right now we’re working on a book about a squirrel who can talk and that squirrel is super rude.
biz
Oh! Rude squirrel!
stefan
Rude squirrel!
biz
That actually—you are doing a very good job and I am so glad you get to read to Ellis again. And the added genius is that it’s giving me like an extra ten minutes? ‘Cause you usually do like, y’know, bath and toothbrushing with him before I go in? And now I have like a little bit of extra time to sit in my room? Quietly?
stefan
It’s so nice.
biz
It is nice. Good job!
stefan
Thank you.
biz
Alright. So one of Stefan’s very good friends was having a birthday. And on Stefan’s birthday, I had suggested that he go to his very good friend’s house because Stefan at that point in July had not seen another adult. Like, in person. And I was like, “You should do that. That helps you.” And his friend had gotten him a cake and, like, was very… good about social distancing. It was a really nice time. And I said—
stefan
There was so much hand sanitizer.
biz
It was so nice! And I said, “You know what? For his birthday, y’know, do you wanna do something with him again?” And Stefan was like, y’know, you’ve got—he’s got this movie theater system set up in our super-shitty garage. [Laughs.] And he was like, “I could move the chair around and move it around so that we’re socially distanced and yeah, I’d like to have him over.” And I said, “Okay. Would you like me to make him some cupcakes?”
stefan
Yes!
biz
And I said, “What kind of cupcakes?” And you said—
stefan
“Well, he likes bacon a lot.”
biz
So… guys. I made some salty caramel bacon cupcakes.
stefan
They were really good.
biz
And for half of them—were just plain. So the children could have some. But the other ones, you like, mixed in a little bacon fat into the mix before you cook it? And then you—then I crumbled the top with crumbled bacon bits? That, like, real bacon. Not like—
stefan
Not Bac-o-Bits.
biz
Not Bac-o-Bits. Bacon.
stefan
I mean, but if you like Bac-o-Bits it’s fine.
biz
That’s great! No, you can—that you can use that. It’s just we had some bacon. So that’s what I did. Anyway. I made them and not only did they look pretty—
stefan
They were delicious! [Biz laughs.]
biz
Enjoy your heart attack! [Laughs.] Happy birthday!
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Hi, One Bad Mother. This is a genius. A giant genius, really. I am a woman in my household and I have always been kinda handy. And you know what? I decided to install our new dishwasher. Which is a genius in itself. That we got a dishwasher after not having had one, ever. And— [Biz laughs.] Y’know what? I did it! I installed the dishwasher! While caring for a nine-month-old and a four-year-old! And you know what? I haven’t tried it yet, so this might be a fail. But it looks great. And… it will wash dishes. And… I showed my daughter that women can do things. And… she was really impressed with her mama! And I’m really impressed with me. And we’re all doing a great job and I feel like I’m doing a great job. Love the show. Thank you. Bye.
biz
Oh my goddd!
stefan
Wow.
biz
You, madam, are a genius. Let me tell you… I, myself, being handy with the tools, definitely feel like a leveled-up sense of satisfaction when I do some sort of, like, major project with babies and young children in tow? I have?
stefan
Becomes like a plus-three in difficulty?
biz
Yeah, it does! It becomes a plus-three in difficulty! And like… it is amaze—it’s like a higher high than surviving that first flight with a baby. Like—[Laughs.] [Stefan laughs.] It’s so good! At the end is when I call everybody in. “Come look what I did! I did this thing!”
stefan
And they’re like, “It’s a dishwasher!”
biz
And they’re like, “Great. What’s happening, Luddite?” [Laughs.]
stefan
But dishwasher’s major, man.
crosstalk
Biz: Oh, dishwasher’s major. Stefan: That’s unbelievable.
biz
You are doing… such a good job. And both of those children know it. Failures!
clip
[Dramatic orchestral music plays in the background.] Theresa: [In a voice akin to the Wicked Witch of the West] Fail. Fail. Fail. FAIL! [Timpani with foot pedal engaged for humorous effect.] Biz: [Calmly] You suck! [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective failures of the week.]
biz
Fail me, Stefan.
stefan
Always.
biz
Always. [Stefan laughs.] Just continue… to fail me. [Laughs.] [Stefan laughs.] “What have you done this time?” [Laughs.]
stefan
What—this time. Okay. So this is a little bit of a multi-part-er. But I’m gonna start at the beginning. So you had fallen asleep with a puzzle tray on your bed. And so I was like, alright. But I couldn’t find the rest of the puzzle caddy. So I was like, alright, I’m gonna move this puzzle tray over to the dining room table, and because I know the cats like to eat puzzle pieces or drag them around the house, I’m gonna put this big blanket over the puzzles. And so that was all fine. Next morning, we come out. We have breakfast. And the cats, of course, are like, “Oh, have you put a blanket on the table? We’re gonna sit on this blanket!” [Biz laughs.] And so then we threw on some series of jokes. We got around to that this now is a butt puzzle because the cats have put their butts on this puzzle. And Ellis was like, [gasps] “Butt puzzle!” [Biz laughs.] And is just like, was super excited about just shouting out the word—
crosstalk
Biz and Stefan: “Butt puzzle!”
stefan
And exactly like that. Was just shouting out “butt puzzle.” Which is very funny.
biz
It is!
stefan
But then he was like, “Alright. What I need to do—as a surprise for mama—we’re gonna make a butt puzzle.” And I was like, okay. He was like, “We need paper and cardboard. I will draw the butt.” [Biz laughs.] And so then he immediately, like, drew a picture of a butt. Now, this butt—it looks like a circle with just a line straight down the middle.
crosstalk
Stefan: He’s like— Biz: Close enough.
stefan
And he was like, “Great. Here’s the butt for the butt puzzle.” He was like, “Wait. No, hold on. I gotta put more stuff on him.” I was like, “What more stuff are you gonna put on him?”
crosstalk
Biz: Tattoo. No. [Laughs.] Stefan: He’s like, “I’m gonna—I’m gonna—"
stefan
“I’m gonna draw a whole bunch of turds around it!”
crosstalk
Biz: He did not say “turds.” My angel didn’t say “turds.” Stefan: He didn’t use the word—he did not say the word “turds.”
stefan
No. But he did use the word “bajs korv”—
crosstalk
Stefan: Which in Swedish means “poop sausage.” Biz: Which is very impressive.
stefan
So he drew a series of poop sausages in a circle around the butt and then we did attach it to cardboard and we cut it out and we made Biz solve the butt puzzle. [Laughs.]
biz
Mm.
stefan
I—essentially, the fail is that we are no longer suitable for society? We have gone feral in our isolation.
crosstalk
Biz: Socially. Socially feral. It—the fail is just like— Stefan: Socially—socially feral.
biz
Once we go back into the world… of interacting with other people… our children may have forgotten, like, the—
crosstalk
Biz: —boundaries— Stefan: Mores?
biz
Boundaries [through laughter] of decent society. And when asked “What did you do during the pandemic,” they might say—
crosstalk
Biz: “Butt puzzle!” Stefan: “We went down the butt—"
biz
Right?
stefan
Yeah. “Went down the butt puzzle rabbit hole.”
biz
Yeah. “Butt puzzle rabbit hole.” See? Stefan and I like children. Not babies.
stefan
Oh, yeah.
crosstalk
Biz: Anyway. Well, you are doing a horrible job. It is all your fault. Stefan: I know. I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry.
biz
Oh, they’ll never be President now! That’s okay.
stefan
President Butt Puzzle! [Biz laughs.]
biz
More butt puzzles for all Americans. Okay. This has been a fail in the past. But it’s the middle… end of summer. And I’ve talked about it on this show. Katy Belle has whatever the very special blood type is that mosquitos, like—
crosstalk
Biz and Stefan: Love.
biz
Like, love. If she and I were standing on the porch together for five minutes, and then came inside, she’d have… 10 to 15 bites on her, and I would have none. And… she then scratches them. And then they turn into sores. And then, like, every year, I think, I’ve ruined her life. She’s gonna have like scars all over her legs. She’s gonna, like, have… she’s gonna—[Laughs.] Y’know, I’ve become like a Southern mom. “She’s gonna be ostracized!”
crosstalk
Biz: “And she’ll never—the pageant!” Stefan: “The pageant!”
biz
Right? “She’ll never rush a sorority!” Guys, don’t worry. And—
stefan
[Through laughter] She’ll join a sorority.
biz
She’ll join a sorority.
stefan
She’ll—yeah, yeah, yeah.
crosstalk
Biz and Stefan: Don’t worry. [Laughs.]
stefan
Greek material.
biz
Well, maybe she’ll be like all the rest of us and drop out of one. Anyway. So they’re really bad right now. And like, they’re even—she’s even getting ‘em on her arms and her neck and her chest. And I just feel horrible. And there really is no way to solve the problem? I mean, I did get the good stuff. I got the, like, DEET. And— [Stefan laughs.] —y’know. But she’s 11. I can’t like chase her around. Y’know. She’s gotta also put it on. And like it just… there’s only so much you can do. And it’s not enough. For my mental state.
stefan
I kinda just wish you were doing a better job.
biz
[Through laughter] I wish I was doing a better job. If I could, I would blow that yard up with pesticide. But… that’s not the right thing to do. [Both laugh.] Anymore. [Laughs.] ‘Cause of living things.
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Hey, guys! I’m calling with a fail. That I’m still dealing with. My kids just recently went back to daycare. Because my husband and I are both essential workers and one of the things that we have done when we pick them up—because it’s fun and we have nothing else to do and ‘cause it gets them kinda clean from daycare—is we come in the door and change immediately into swim clothes and go outside to do, like, water play stuff? And our washing machine is right by the door that we come in through the garage. So they come in and they just get naked and put their clothes in the washing machine and then I get them dressed and it’s all—it works pretty well. But yesterday, I had been told that my—one of my kids had an accident at school. And I didn’t—I—like, it—I don’t know. It went in my brain and then I forgot. And so we come in the door and he takes off his clothes. Put ‘em in the wash. And apparently opened his bag from school and put those in the wash. And it all got buried under other stuff that we just throw in the washing machine throughout the day. And I just got up early to do laundry and get it started before work, and uh… I just went to put the wash—the laundry into the dryer, and I opened it up, and it smells like shit. [Biz laughs.] Because he had a poop accident yesterday. And so there were poop clothes in there. And now all of our clothes smell like shit. [Both laugh.] Um… I don’t… I don’t even know what to do with this. If it was just his clothes I would probably just… I don’t know. Throw them out. Probably would’ve washed them separately. But I, uh, I don’t know. I let my son put his turd in the laundry— [Both laugh.] —and now we’re just gonna be a family that smells like pop for a while ‘cause I don’t know— [Stefan laughs.] I don’t know what to do. Guess I’ll go do some googling. [Biz laughs.] Alright. Thanks for the show, guys. Bye.
biz
Wooo! That… is remarkable.
stefan
Oh, wait. So—so—it doesn’t just wash out? The poop?
crosstalk
Biz: Not, like, a—okay. Alright. Let me—let me tell you. It’s—if it’s— Stefan: Like, isn’t that just a full-on turd floating around?
biz
It depends on the style of accident and no one who listens to the show really wants us to talk in great detail about this.
stefan
Are you sure?
biz
No, yeah, I’m pretty sure. I will give a special shoutout to Marnie Zelbin—long-time friend—and when she and I both had our first kids, I remember being like, “Oh my god, I don’t know what I’m supposed to do whenever Katy Belle has an accident and there is poop all over the clothes!” And she goes, “Oh, I just go to the toilet, and like… shake it out. Like, rinse it out in the toilet.” And I was like, “That is genius!” Like—I’m like, “I don’t—” ‘Cause I was like, “I don’t wanna put it in the tub and wash it off and I don’t wanna put it in the sink and wash it off.” [Stefan makes sound of enlightenment.] Oh my god. I can—
stefan
You put it where the poop goes!
biz
Where the poop goes! That’s right! And so—[Laughs.] I’m listening to you and I’m like, “I get it.” Like, there is a certain level of soiling that is too much for a washing machine to hold. Think of, like, when a sticker goes into the wash. Or like, a… a piece of paper. You’re doing a horrible job. Despite everything that happened up until the poop in the washing machine. Because all that prior stuff was gold. That was some genius, genius stuff that I love. But let’s just discount it. And… just—actually, we should just forget about how great you were doing. And only focus… on how horrible a person—like, just like a person in the world. You are. Yeah.
stefan
I’m so sorry.
music
“Mom Song” by Adira Amram. Mellow piano music with lyrics. You are the greatest mom I’ve ever known. I love you, I love you. When I have a problem, I call you on the phone. I love you, I love you. [Music fades out.]
promo
Music: Guitar strums as singer counts out “One, two, one two three four.” Up-tempo guitar and harmonica music plays in the background. Justin McElroy: Hi, everybody! My name is Justin McElroy. Dr. Sydnee McElroy: I’m Sydnee McElroy! Justin: We’re both doctors, and— Sydnee: Nope. Just me. Justin: Okay, well Sydnee’s a doctor and I’m a medical enthusiast. Sydnee: Okay. Justin: And we created Sawbones, a marital tour of misguided medicine! Sydnee: Every week I dig through the annals of medical history to bring you the wildest, grossest—sometimes dumbest—tales of ways we’ve tried to treat people throughout history! Justin: Eh, lately we do a lot of modern fake medicine. ‘Cause everything’s a disaster. But it’s slightly less of a disaster every Friday, right here on MaximumFun.org, as we bring you Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine. And remember: Sydnee: Don’t drill a hole in your head. [Music ends.]
promo
Music: Gentle, rhythmic music underscores the dialogue. Janet Varney: We are so thrilled at your interest in attending Hieronymous Wiggenstaff’s School for Heroism and Villainy! Wiggenstaff’s beautiful campus boasts state-of-the-art facilities and instructors with real-world experience! We are also proud to say that our alumni have gone on to be professional heroes and villains in the most renowned kingdoms in the world! But of course, you are not applying to the main school, are you? You’re applying for our sidekick and henchperson annex! You will still benefit from the school’s amazing campus, and! You’ll have a lifetime of steady employment. Of course… there’s no guarantee how long that lifetime will be. Travis McElroy: Join the McElroys as they return to Dungeons and Dragons with The Adventure Zone: Graduation. Every other Thursday on Maximum Fun, or wherever podcasts are found. [Music ends.]
biz
Well… that was nice of Stefan to join in with me here on the show. He is actually doing a really remarkable job. And there’s no one else I would like to be going through this with. But now, it is time to move on… to… our most important guest every week. And that is… a mom having a breakdown.
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Okay, Biz. I know you’re the one listening to these? [Deep sigh.] Okay. My rant epiphany has turned into a bigger rant, because I was trying to leave a rant epiphany? And I said to my family, “I just need to be right back for a minute” and I came upstairs to take care of myself and call this hotline— [Biz laughs.] —and leave a voicemail, and halfway through it, I get interrupted with the family. [Sighs deeply.] Oh my… just two minutes. That’s all I needed! Just two minutes! Anyway, the point of what I was trying to—oh my god, my toddler’s at the door. [Through laughter] Like, I don’t even get 45 seconds. [Deep breath.] This has just turned into a whole different rant. [Biz laughs.] But this is gonna make me lose my mind. Oh my god, you guys. This… everyone’s gonna be insane. Everyone’s gonna be insane. [Deep exhalation] Oh, what the fuck.
biz
I… oh, I love you. So much. The, like… I feel like maybe I—I—this—I’m beginning to feel a new t-shirt. That just says “TWO MINUTES!” [Laughs.] I just want two minutes! And then it just suddenly turned into like a horror film. “Oh my god. My toddler’s at the door!” Like—[Laughs.] “Can Mommy come out to play?” Yeah. No. I can safely say… I relate. I mean, like… this is such a perfect call of parenting, like, chaos. Like, I—it—like, there’s no real beginning, middle, or end to this call? [Laughs.] It’s just—it’s just, like… opening the curtain into a little slice of life for so many. So many! That—there’s nothing, like, worse than the feeling of “can I not even get two minutes.” And like sometimes… I think… I think, even now, 11 years in… I’ll think, “That’s—it’s just so silly. I can obviously have two minutes. I can obviously—” like, that’s—uh, “Maybe I am being overly dramatic.” And then I realize I’m not. And that the real fantasy was thinking that I wouldn’t be interrupted every two minutes. And it’s like what Stefan and I were just talking about! In every house, there’s a different dynamic and relationship if you are in a two-parent household. There is always gonna be one who the kids, like, forever interrupt and one who they interrupt less. And for the one who gets interrupted more… it can be infuriating when one of those—‘cause like, I hear you. You’re in the bathroom. You’re hiding. You clearly made the announcement “All I need is two minutes.” And yet… your partner has let one of them go. [Laughs.] They’ve allowed one to make their way to you! [Laughs.] And interrupt you! And like, was—just becomes this like… extra layer of like… I—not only can I not have two minutes, but like, can’t you give me two minutes?! It is—it is—that is like a real… place. And… the pandemic is doing none of us any favors when it comes to… like, trying to set up anything that even resembles routine time alone. You know, like, for all the efforts Stefan and I are making, we’re still—we’re still struggling with this! I’m still not getting routine. Like, there’s still—I cannot… like… commit to an exercise schedule. Or a walk schedule. Or banjo practice. Or—like, anything consistently at a consistent time. And… y’know, I—blech! I don’t—y’know, I don’t know how to fix it. And… those two minutes become so important to all of us. And I think you’re doing… a really remarkable, remarkable job. You really are. Thank you for yelling into the void for all of us, “Can’t I even have two minutes?” This is—[Laughs.] I think this might be the year we might be shifting from “Sack of Bananas” to “Can’t I just have two minutes?!” [Laughs.] This is the year of “Can’t I have just two minutes?!” It’s like the Chinese zodiac. It’s the Year of the Rat. It’s the Year… of the Sack of Bananas and the Year of—[Laughs.] “Can’t I Just Have Two Minutes.” I smell a calendar coming up! Anyway, you’re doing… a remarkable job.
biz
What did we learn today, guys? What—you know what? We really did learn. You gotta advocate for yourself and… you have to, y’know, unless you actually married a jerk, you probably didn’t. And… pandemic life is incredibly stressful and hard for everybody involved. And… what worked as… communication before this may not work now. And… so… you have to—ugh. It’s so much work! You have to keep, like, revisiting how to communicate with your partner. How to communicate with your kids. And how to make sure that part of that communication is being respectful to what you need? And to what they need. Mm-kay? It—y’know—and Stefan’s right. It is… better to do it sooner rather than… when you’re at the boiling point. And that’s something I’ve had to work really, really hard on. ‘Cause I think I just kept always thinking he’d eventually… think of it. Not read my mind, but like—‘cause I’m thinking about it all the time, obviously—[Laughs.] Who could miss it? And so I had to really learn that we did think differently. And so, y’know, it—eh. We all have to do a little work! And… try to remember that, y’know, it doesn’t have to be awful work.
biz
That said, we’re also all trapped inside a house, man. With everybody. And some are having to go out, which is stressful, and some are having to work away from home because they’re essential and some of us have to work from home and that’s difficult. And nothing’s gotten any clearer about childcare or school. So some days, maybe the best communication is just… getting up, doing it, and going to bed still liking each other. That can also be a win, guys. [Laughs.] Everybody? You’re doing a remarkable job. You really are. The one thing we all know right now is that there are no easy choices? And… I don’t know about you, but like, every week I think—maybe my choices are gonna get better? [Laughs.] And then… they don’t! Like, they don’t—they don’t get worse, either, but they just don’t change. The choices are still really hard. There are no new options coming in. And that’s… that’s frustrating. So you’re all doing… remarkable. [Sighs.] Having to exist in a time that is so unpredictable. Unsettling. Not normal. Scary. Dangerous, at times. Y’know. I—I—[sighs.] It’s weird. It’s weird. And you’re all doing it. And… [sighs.] Look. You don’t have to say that you love being with your family every minute of the day. That doesn’t cancel out that you might be having some really nice moments with your kids. And it’s okay to say you’re also having some really nice moments with your kids. You’re remarkable. I see you. We are gonna continue to get through this. Let’s go out and be kind and patient and really try to see each other. And… I will talk to you guys next week! Bye!
music
“Mama Blues” by Cornbread Ted and the Butterbeans. Strumming acoustic guitar with harmonica and lyrics. _I got the lowdown momma blues_ Got the lowdown momma blues Gots the lowdown momma blues The lowdown momma blues Gots the lowdown momma blues Got the lowdown momma blues You know that’s right [Music fades somewhat, plays in background of dialogue.]
biz
We’d like to thank MaxFun; our producer, Hannah Smith; our husbands, Stefan Lawrence and Jesse Thorn; our perfect children, who provide us with inspiration to say all these horrible things; and of course, you, our listeners. To find out more about the songs you heard on today’s podcast and more about the show, please go to MaximumFun.org/onebadmother. For information about live shows, our book and press, please check out OneBadMotherPodcast.com.
theresa
One Bad Mother is a member of the Maximum Fun family of podcasts. To support the show go to MaximumFun.org/donate. [Music continues for a while before fading out.]
speaker 2
Comedy and culture.
speaker 3
Artist owned—
speaker 4
—Audience supported.
About the show
One Bad Mother is a comedy podcast hosted by Biz Ellis about motherhood and how unnatural it sometimes is. We aren’t all magical vessels!
Join us every week as we deal with the thrills and embarrassments of motherhood and strive for less judging and more laughing.
Call in your geniuses and fails: 206-350-9485. For booking and guest ideas, please email onebadmother@maximumfun.org. To keep up with One Bad Mother on social media, follow @onebadmothers on Twitter and Instagram.
Get in touch with the show
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@OneBadMothers
@onebadmothers
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