TRANSCRIPT One Bad Mother Ep. 363: Oh Waiter, I’ll Have the Rage with a Side of Tired Please! With Deb Perelman of Smitten Kitchen

Biz is joined by Deb Perelman of Smitten Kitchen to unpack parenting and work in the time of Covid-19. Parents are being asked to do impossible things right now as we all try to figure out how to work and take care of our children and educate our children.  We all know that something needs to change. Where will the support come from and what can we do to make our voices heard? 

Podcast: One Bad Mother

Episode number: 363

Guests: Deb Perelman

Transcript

host

Hi. I’m Biz.

host

And I’m Theresa.

host

Due to the pandemic, we bring you One Bad Mother straight from our homes. Including such interruptions as children, animal noises, and more. So let’s all get a little closer while we have to be so far apart. And remember—we are doing a good job.

music

“Summoning the Rawk” by Kevin MacLeod. Driving electric guitar and heavy drums. [Continues through dialogue.]

host

This week on One Bad Mother—oh, waiter! I’ll have the rage with a side of tired, please! Plus, Deb Perelman of Smitten Kitchen returns to help unpack parenting and work in the time of COVID. Oh, and it’s MaxFunDrive! Wooo! Boop boop boo boo booo! The solo “woo.” Sometimes it’s better to woo alone than to not woo at all. [Laughs.] This is going to be a really fun and exciting show, because Deb Perelman is coming back on to talk about her article that she wrote—op-ed piece that she wrote for the New York Times last week. That’s entitled, “In the COVID-19 Economy, You Can Have a Kid or a Job. You Can’t Have Both.” And woooo, boy! We have a delightful time unpacking all of that. But before we get into that, I just wanna say—once again—as always—that you are doing a very good job. It is not necessarily getting easier. In fact—[Laughs.] Sometimes it feels like it’s a lot worse when you look at the numbers, and that’s very confusing when everybody’s pushing for things to pretend like it’s normal. So if you are an essential worker and have been out there since the beginning of this, thank you so much. Essential workers come in all sorts of shapes and sizes. It is not only people who are helping from a medical point on the front lines. It is the people who are operating the grocery stores; getting those supplies to the grocery stores. It is teachers and volunteers and people at your pharmacy. There’re not a lot of us besides possibly a podcast host that should not be deemed essential! [Laughs.] Like, everybody, you’re still working or taking care of loved ones. That is essential to me, so thank you so much for doing that. A special shoutout this week to all the single parents. [Singing] All the single ladies! All the single ladies! [Laughs.] [Regular voice] All the single parents. Wow. I see you. You are in a situation that probably has daily impossible decisions to make. And you are doing a very good job. And—like I said—to all the people who are out there volunteering, whether it is to make sure people are getting food that need food; whether it is to help us figure out voting in America in November—which is critically important this time around. I think it’s important every time. I like to vote for everything. [Laughs.] And I think this is a really good example this time in our lives of how important it is to vote for city council. School board. All those things? They impact us. And we’re seeing that right now. So… thank you to those who are helping us figure out how we are gonna safely vote, and thank you to all the people in education who are unfairly being asked to figure it all out on your own. For what fall is going to look like for millions of families. And kids. So thank you, thank you, thank you.

host

Speaking of thank you, it is the MaxFunDrive. Normally, this is something that happens in March every year, but something else was happening in March this year and in all the consecutive months that have followed March. And—to be honest—it has not felt like a reasonable time to ask for support. And it still doesn’t necessarily feel like the right time to ask for support. But we’re going to. Dadadadadada. We’re going to. And let me tell you why. MaxFun is a artist-owned and artist-supported business. That is the model that we use. All of us who have podcasts and are part of this community, we are putting, y’know, our own money and our own time into making these shows possible. And we’re able to do that because we are supported by audience members like you. Your support helps us continue to make the show. It helps us continue to hire and have a producer like Hannah who has made these last months bearable to listen to. Guys. I am in a bedroom and I will be sending out a picture of my studio fort that I have made. And she makes it all seamlessly work. And so it also supports all the staff at MaxFun who help us throughout the year when we need it and help find and support new voices in podcasting. You can give by choosing a monthly amount that’s comfortable for you. Most people give $5 a month or $10 a month. And some upgrade to $20, $35, or even $100 per month or more. But it’s—it’s really about what works for you. As always, there are fun gifts—hello, sack of banana enamel pin!—and events over the next few weeks. We’re gonna let you know about ‘em on social media as well as here on the show. So visit MaximumFun.org/join and find out more about how you can continue to help One Bad Mother and MaxFun make podcasts. We’ve been doing this show—god—is it seven years? It could possibly—this could be our seventh MaxFunDrive. And we have been able to make this show because you pay us to do so. And we would really like to continue making this show. It is a silly job, [through laughter] but it is a job that I have found a great reward in and great community in. And I’d really like to keep making it. It has also allowed me to navigate working from home during the time of COVID-19 with a little more flexibility than most. Which I think… ties in nicely… to what we’re going to talk about today with the lovely Deb Perelman--in the COVID-19 economy, you can work or you can have kids. But you can’t have both.

music

Banjo strums; cheerful banjo music continues through dialogue.

host

Please—take a moment to remember: If you’re friends of the hosts of One Bad Mother, you should assume that when we talk about other moms, we’re talking about you.

host

If you are married to the host of One Bad Mother, we definitely are talking about you.

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Nothing we say constitutes professional parenting advice.

host

Biz and Theresa’s children are brilliant, lovely, and exceedingly extraordinary.

host

Nothing said on this podcast about them implies otherwise. [Banjo music fades out.] [Biz and Deb repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss the weekly topic.]

host

This week, we are welcoming back Deb Perelman, who is a self-taught home cook, photographer, and the creator of everybody’s favorite, SmittenKitchen.com. She is the author of the New York Times bestselling cookbooks, The Smitten Kitchen Cookbook and Smitten Kitchen Every Day. Deb lives in New York City with her husband and two children. Welcome back, Deb!

host

[Laughs.] Thanks for having me back on!

host

I—well. I would love to have you on almost every day if I could! [Deb laughs.] We would have lots to talk about! Before we get into what we are gonna talk about today, though—even though I gave away some spoilers in your bio—let us know who lives in your house.

host

In my house, uh, in my apartment is my husband, Alex; my son, Jacob, who is ten; and my daughter Anna who turns five today.

host

Woo! It has been a year since we last spoke. Give or take.

host

Wow.

host

A little over a year. I know. Anything—anything different these days? [Laughs.]

host

Y’know, I spend so much more time with my family than I used to! [Laughs.]

host

[Gasps.] Wow!

host

I mean, it’s just probably just a random thing that’s happening. [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.] I spend a lot more time with my family. We haven’t killed each other, so we’ve got that going for us. I think we’re—we’re thriving? [Biz laughs.] So that feels good. Well, I would say that maybe socially thriving. Or we’ve found ways to make it work. I would say all things are. [Laughs.]

host

I really like that the scale is… “We haven’t all killed each other—" [Deb laughs.] —or “thriving.” [Laughs.]

host

Somewhere in the middle. No. [Laughs.]

host

Yeah. No. It’s—it’s for sure somewhere in the middle. We’ve got you here today ‘cause we’re gonna get into the article that you wrote for the New York Times called “In the COVID-19 Economy, You Can Have a Kid or a Job. You Can’t Have Both.” I really actually do wanna ask you—in all seriousness—how are you doing?

host

I think we’re doing okay. It’s not like—obviously, it’s not like the easiest time. I think I’m keenly aware of how much worse others have it and I know that’s kind of like a weird way to describe things, but I think because I can see what we’re going to relative to what everyone else is? I know that we’re not having the worst time. It doesn’t mean that we’re having an easy time. It doesn’t mean that this is great and we love it being impossible to work— [Biz laughs.] —and our kids getting, y’know, a pale imitation of school and camp and everything else. But um, I—one of the reasons I wrote that Op-Ed was because I have these frustrations and I felt overwhelmed by them. And yet I didn’t hear anybody kind of speaking about it from the perspective of what happens if you’re a working parent. And like, none of the systems that you’ve built up around you—which were fragile to begin with, but still worked—are working. And are you just supposed to leave the economy. Are you supposed to—so all these big questions and I kept reading articles that were about, y’know, the economic collapse and bars and restaurants and how will we reopen sports and… [inaudible]. And schools this and schools that. And I just wasn’t reading, like, okay. If I’m supposed to be a homeschool teacher, am I supposed to be bad at it— [Biz laughs.] —or am I supposed to be bad at my job? Which one’s gonna fire me first? Betcha can’t guess.

host

Yeah. Well—okay. Let’s just get right into it. Because that is—that is exactly—you were able to encompass in your article this general sensation of… exhaustion and rage that so many of us are feeling and… one of the things I really—that I really liked was that you, like, just openly say… we’re also tired. How are we supposed to even get people’s attention about this? And I think… you’re right. It was fragile to begin with. I mean, we have talked for years on this show—and it wasn’t a new topic—that if a kid gets sick, that’s a huge deal for working parents. Like, who’s taking off work? Can you take off work? Who’s gonna watch the kid? That was already a fragile situation. Heaven forbid a family goes through a crisis of any kind. And now we are all simultaneously going through a crisis together and… I’m with you. I don’t see how this is supposed to work. At all. Tell us a little bit about some of the conversations you were having with your—with your friends and other people and in your own house about this.

host

Absolutely. I mean, basically, y’know, like everybody else, you’ve got your group texts and like your secret mom groups on Facebook and you’ve got your little channels where you can speak safely to other parents, which is great and releases steam. And I think, y’know, when—when—when schools were first cancelled and we were all home, we weren’t like, “Hooray! I’m homeschooling!” But we decided we were gonna make do as best we could. Because it’s a global pandemic. It’s not regular times. I hope it’s not our new regular times. And we have to stay home. And I live in New York City where it was especially bad and we knew what we had to do. So we were all like, y’know, this is what I need to do for the world. I will do it. And there was this idea that maybe in six weeks we’ll flatten the curve ‘cause everyone’s gonna do their part— [Biz laughs.] —or maybe in eight weeks and we can start talking about reopening. [Biz sighs.] But instead, what we found was that we went four months without playdates. Without playgrounds. I think having an incredible strain put on our work. And this is—by the way—for people who were even able to pull this off. People for whom—who still have a job. People who—the biggest problem, like, is that my kids aren’t getting enough playground time. You know what I mean? Like, this is like such a tiny fraction of what parents are dealing with today. So after four months of that, what we heard back was—yeah, we’re just gonna continue this indefinitely. [Biz laughs.] And I think that you can in the short term make adjustments. But in the long term, you’re like—wait. That—that—I need a policy. I need protection. I need job protection. I need something. We need income protection. We need a plan. We need creative thinking. And none of these things were happening.

host

I don’t know about you, but we’ve been starting to get the emails about, y’know, options for the fall. From—and I—I—I’m some sort of weird school nerd, so I like to follow all the different schools districts that are in LA? ‘Cause we’re in the LA area. And they’re all different. Which I find fascinating. And they all still do not solve the problem of what is a working parent supposed to do? Either the three days a week that your children aren’t in school. Or maybe your kids are going back half day. Okay? Whose work is half-day? What about after-school care? I mean, a lot of—a lot of people rely on before-school care and after-school care. There’s no uniform plan. Not that we can make something uniform, but I agree with you. I feel like… the onus is on the schools and the families and the kids and not on the employers to solve this problem.

host

I think that we’re hoping to find resolutions from schools and I don’t think that’s a reasonable expectation. At least in New York City, but probably true for most of America because this is just kind of how we feel about schools. Our schools are underfunded. They are overcrowded. They are understaffed. They are not going to be able to magically invent 64 square foot per person. They cannot—we don’t have the space to expand. This is not within the schools’ ability. [Biz laughs.] Meanwhile, it’s not like—oh, the teachers get sick? No big deal. Like, a lot of teachers feel this crushing pressure. Every teacher does. Because they know that the schools can’t protect them from this thing and that the policies—they don’t have enough money for the PPE, all of the things—the dividers. They—this is not going to magically happen. And I think we need to be looking further up the chain. We need to be looking at—who funds the DOEs? And what’s going on here? Because you have these underfunded schools. They can’t pivot. And I don’t—y’know—I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect them to. I think what I’m hearing overwhelmingly from teachers is that we’re either heading for a colossal teacher strike, or we’re heading for—I mean, we already have teachers quitting. I have mom friends who are teachers who have these back to school meetings and they literally go and they try—look at their bank account or talk to their spouse if they have one and say, “Can I live without my income for a year because I cannot come back to this. They can’t protect me. I can’t get my mother sick. My seven-year-old.” Like, so there’s this whole messy thing and it’s just—it’s become set up like parents versus teachers and teachers are like, “We’re not your daycare”? But it was—it’s not really about that. It’s about a lack of a national conversation about universal childcare and it’s about funding of schools so they can do what they need to do to keep kids safe.

host

Yes. The position that we’re putting teachers in is absurd. The lack of funding—I—one of the—we’ve been all over the place with schools with the kids for a variety of reasons, but I used to—and I still volunteer in classrooms. But whether it was a kindergarten classroom or a third-grade classroom or the art studio in a school that was in a wealthier neighborhood. Y’know, supposedly the taxes were better. All this stuff. Never were there paper towels or soap. [Laughs.] Just—

host

Yeah. There aren’t enough things.

host

Yeah! There was never a paper towel. And what I— [Laughs.] That used to make me nuts. And when I think about how much handwashing we’re—like, we’re gonna be requiring everybody in a school to do, even if they’re only there for ten minutes a day—where are the paper towels?! Like this—like, just that one dumb thing. And then I think about how many places are lacking paper towels. And my mind explodes. Also, do you know kids? Do you know—are you familiar with kids? Kids are really good at staying away from their friends. I don’t know— [Laughs.]

host

They’re definitely not gonna be using their masks as a slingshot. Eye— [Laughs.] Eye badge. No. I mean, it’s—I—I was of the belief—naïve—in the beginning—that kids could keep their masks on all day? [Biz laughs.] Then we hit summer in New York, which is so hot and sticky. And I—I don’t even—I will keep it on and I will do it. But I’m a grown adult who understands why it’s important. And I find it difficult to keep my mask on for two hours outside. While, y’know, if I’m trying to chat with other people. And it’s hard. And again, we will do it. We do hard things. This isn’t really a question. What I’m saying is that I’m a grownup. [Laughs.] I understand tiny bits of epidemiology that I’ve learned here over the last few months. Like, there is no way my four- and ten-year-old can make this decision. And I think teachers are right to say, “Absolutely no way. You can’t even get us paper towels. You can’t even keep these bathrooms [inaudible] . We don’t have funding for anything. You’re not gonna magically have extra sinks and plexiglass dividers. And so the real—y’know, we’ve come back to this idea of funding schools and how we value it in this country, which is to say not enough.

host

Not at all.

host

And then we come back into this idea of—how are we protecting workers in this country? And I—I mean, I write about banana bread for a living!

crosstalk

Biz: I know! [Laughs.] Deb: Why—like—

host

—the amount of stuff I’ve had to—like—when I just—you look at it and, again, this is just—these issues of childcare have always existed. It’s always been very hard to find affordable, accessible, high-quality childcare. It’s always been a fight that working parents are in. But since March when we fully took away all the systems that exist unless you’re in some top two percentile and have just hired a private tutor or your live-in nanny, or, y’know, like, people who are like—not people who should be having any say in policy. I’m sorry. [Biz laughs.] [Laughs.] Like, if you’re doing fine? Good for you. Like, the rest of us are, y’know, really don’t have options. [Biz laughs.] And so I started thinking about, like, it’s not just that pressuring schools. It’s about pressuring the systems that keep the schools from being able to do what they know as educators is safe. And it becomes about—what are we gonna do to protect parents? Okay. So, like, last week I feel like we saw the first lawsuit? Of what I think is going to be, perhaps, thousands of—it was a mother, um—a mother. An employee suing her company for wrongful termination. Because she says that they were complaining about her kids making noise in the background of calls. I mean, this is going to happen over and over again. How are we going to protect parents’ ability to earn a living— [Biz laughs.] —or protect their jobs if they have to take leave to be educators?

host

Well, they should probably not have kids. Right? Isn’t that—

crosstalk

Biz: —the obvious? Choice? Deb: I mean, probably—yes. [Laughs.]

host

You have—oh, have you been reading my email? [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.] Have you been reading my email? Why have you even had kids—and I’m like, yes. Because, y’know, and I wanted to hit it, like, right on the head.

crosstalk

Biz: Sorry. We’re gonna have to sidetrack. Deb: [Inaudible.] You can’t even.

host

I didn’t even think about the response. Like, I—like—I read your article and I’m like, all I want to do is send you, like, flowers. And I—the idea that somebody is being, like… “Well, you asked for it!” About— [Laughs.] This!

host

I—yes. As if the schools that you are required—by law—to pay taxes, and then—by law—have to send your kids to—suddenly close for the year. You’re supposed to have some sort of… I don’t know. Like, what’s your backup strategy supposed to be? Not educating your kids? Or are you supposed to also be paying for some sort of all-age daycare that sits empty all day while your kids are supposed to be at school? Like, which of these things was I supposed to be doing to make sure that I always had a backup plan? [Biz laughs.] The backup plan is—and we actually had one! We have a babysitter! We actually had a backup plan. But guess what? It’s not safe for her to come either. I know lots of people are bringing their babysitters back. Everybody do what feels good to them. It doesn’t feel right to me. So I haven’t brought the babysitter back. And even if I do, what about her school-aged children who need to be—none of these systems work.

host

And at the same time, we are looking at—not only are we asking teachers and school staff to go back in to a completely unrealistic situation of safety. We are also asking our kids to go into these situations. The decisions that are facing parents right now seem overwhelming.

host

I’ve gotten an overwhelming amount of emails, also, from single parents. Who are like—“Y’know, we talk about, like, other families are talking about, like, which parent’s gonna stay home and whose income we’re gonna live without? Like, I have no options.” That is also—y’know, there are people who are considered essential and they’ve been back for months and they’ve been in this situation but, y’know, some of them have been sending their kids to schools that have been set up for essential workers. Right now, if we’re going back to the offices, and our kids are in school, we’re all essential workers. Like, where is our—where’s the protection? And where—like, what are we supposed to do? Are we basically just inviting parents to leave the economy? And I think the problem that happens in America is that we end up with these—every time something happens with schools or childcare, we end up having to re-debate this idea of, like, mothers working whatsoever. I mean, which is just crazy! Because overwhelmingly—I think I read, like, 70% of mothers work and 95% of dads work. And yet every time it becomes this excuse to talk about whether moms should even be working. Like, it’s not even on the table! That’s not what we’re debating. We’re debating the idea that should you—are we—are we being asked to just do a garbage—like, is my kid just not gonna have a sixth-grade education ‘cause I can’t homeschool him? Or am I going to not pay a mortgage because I’m not making income? [Biz laughs.] Which of these things is gonna happen? And I’m speaking for lots of parents. Because—again—like I said, we have more privileges that are disposable, but most people are facing this thanks to which one are we saying doesn’t matter.

host

So let’s… let’s wrap up on any, like, thoughts on… let’s solve the problem, Deb. [Laughs.]

host

We’re gonna fix it. We’re gonna fix it right here on this podcast.

host

You and me!

host

And then I get to go back to making banana bread again.

crosstalk

Deb: Which I enjoy! Like, I should be making— Biz: Oh my god. I know!

host

I should be, like, making banana bread and pie right now. And instead I’m like ranting about—like, talking to, like, congresspeople in my spare time. [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.]

crosstalk

Deb: It’s so wild! Well, that’s, like, the joke of, like, the pandemic. Biz: Well you could send ‘em all some fucking banana bread. You could just send ‘em—

host

It’s a bad joke, but, like, y’know, it’s just this idea that we all started off making sourdough and—and—and—y’know. Banana bread. And now we’re all, like, dismantling, y’know, systems of— [Biz laughs.] —oppression. [Laughs.] And I feel like I might be that arc, too, because I started off making banana bread and now I’m, like, yelling on podcasts about childcare— [Biz laughs.] —solutions in this country. But I just wanted to—I wanted to express what I was hearing. Because I think that, y’know, a lot of parents can’t do this. If you have a boss, you can’t just go on Facebook or Twitter and be, like, “I can’t handle this.” ‘Cause that’s what—you’re literally, to, like, I mean, this is—this is capitalism. Like, you’re gonna lose your job. They’re gonna say, “Oh. Well somebody else can handle this better. I will give somebody else this person’s job.” So most people don’t have the freedom to speak, like, freely about how hard it’s been. I also think that I do—because I’m self-employed—I don’t think my boss—which is also me—is gonna fire me. But I don’t know. Perhaps I have. Um— [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.]

host

Deb: I’ll look out for my [inaudible] . Biz: Well, how much banana bread have you been making, Deb? [Laughs.] [Deb laughs.]

host

Not so much, Deb! Um, uh, and then—also—I think that, y’know, parents don’t wanna—most parents aren’t comfortable—and we shouldn’t be—loudly advocating for school to return because that sounds like you’re marching your kids into the salt mines. We don’t actually know that school’s safe. We know that it’s not safe the way that it exists now. We know schools aren’t funded enough to be able to make these changes. So what—I mean, you certainly don’t wanna be out there, y’know, yelling that schools should open and then the schools open and then, y’know, god forbid what happens. So I think that a lot of—y’know, I asked why are people not talking about this? And I think our hands are tied in many ways. And I think that we’re looking in the wrong places for answers.

host

So where should we… look? You—you mentioned that you’ve been on the phone with congresspeople—which I think is amazing—

host

Crazy. [Laughs.]

host

Where should we be focusing our attention if we’ve got five minutes to breathe? What can I do… not that you have to have an answer for this. But like—

host

I have answers!

crosstalk

Biz: Oh, wow! Woo! Deb: Yeah. I’m ready!

host

I’m ready.

crosstalk

Biz: Yes! Answer me! Good! [Laughs.] Deb: [Inaudible] nothing else. Um—

host

I think you should call your lawmakers and find out if they support universal childcare. Find out—what if they don’t. Find out if they’re going—what they’re doing to make sure that you don’t have to leave your job before we have a vaccine. What they’re gonna do to protect you if you do lose your job because you’re supposed to educate your kids. I wanna know if they have any say over the DOE. If the DOE in your state or your city or wherever has—are they encouraging more creative solutions. Are they looking at—like, in New York City we have the Javits Center. Like, it’s this giant place. And it’s empty! Are we looking at all the empty spaces of New York? Are we looking at ballrooms? Are we talking about having classes in the gym? Are we talk—if they can set up hospitals in Central Park, what can they do? I’m not—and during warm weather. I mean, I am a food blogger and I just listed five things. SO maybe the people whose job it is— [Biz laughs.] —to come up with creative solutions can be doing it. The people who can help schools do what they need to do to pivot. So that’s one part. But I also wanna know what they’re doing to protect your job. That’s, like, a very basic thing. What is your—and—and I think that we should—even if you don’t have kids, to understand that when we get pushed out of the workplace, we don’t have women at work! We have bad systems. We don’t have as many women in congress. We don’t have as many women bosses. We have a lot of other messes that I think come from women being pushed out of the workplace, which is what happens disproportionately. Now, there are many men being pushed out of the workplace too. This isn’t, obviously, all families. I’m just saying that overwhelmingly it’s women who get hit harder when childcare get squeezed.

host

Yeah. No. That’s a really good point. Yeah. Ugh, sack of garbage. Go ahead. What else? [Laughs.] [Deb laughs.]

host

And of course that, y’know, two-income families might be having a hard time. I mean, there are so many other situations that are [inaudible] overwhelming amount of single parents. You also have people whose kids just—they rely on the schools for special services and they haven’t been getting them. It’s one thing to miss two months—which is not good!—but it’s another thing to mix six months. Or a year. Or most of a grade. These kids backslide much faster. We joke around about, like, how my hair is a mess [through laughter] and I never get dressed to go outside anymore. Like, this is a very long time for a five- or ten-year-old. This is a lot more. And my kids are doing, like, relatively well. They don’t—y’know, neither of my kid has an IEP. They don’t have IEPs and they aren’t getting special services and so they’re doing okay, but that is not most kids! Most kids are having a really hard time and they’re backsliding on any progress they’ve made since September and they just don’t know—there is just—there are so many secondary things happening. You also have—as will always happen when the economy gets squeezed—you have a disproportionate effect on people of color and minorities and you have people who are in far more strained situations. Having a much harder time. Then, again, y’know, people with more options at their disposal.

host

Yeah. Well… Deb, I cannot tell you how much I have always appreciated your banana bread. [Deb laughs.] But how much I appreciate you writing this article on behalf of all of us? And I’m glad that you’re talking to people in congress? I’m—I—and I hope what happened was they read this and decided to call you.

host

That’s exactly what happened. And I have been shocked by how far it’s come ‘cause I just thought it would be quietly slipped in to the Sunday paper and I would go back to writing about birthday cake and spaghetti and meatballs. And it was the opposite. And I’m flattered but I also like—it was never about me? I just want—I just wanted to—it felt very good to yell and just get it out. And I—in the week or so since the article was published, I feel like I’m seeing almost every article mentions the impact on working parents, too. And it makes me feel like—we haven’t fixed it, but maybe we’re starting to see the needle, like, wiggle at least a little bit on this.

host

Yeah. No. I’m—it—that’s all it takes! Is, y’know, getting… getting a little push. And… to hopefully open the floodgates. And… y’know, I—we are gonna list all the things that you suggested? As well as link everybody up to the article. And some of your cooking-related things! [Laughs.] So they can—

host

Thank you. Ultimate Banana Bread. Gotta do it. [Laughs.]

host

Fucking love the Ultimate Banana Bread. Will make us all feel better and doesn’t involve sourdough, which is amazing. Thank you so much for writing this and thank you for, y’know, not meaning to but winding up in a position to speak for all of us. I appreciate it. We appreciate it. And I hope that if we talk to you again in a year? We have seen the impact of—of these discussions in a positive way and I am glad that you and your family are safe and doing reasonably okay. [Laughs.]

host

Thank you.

host

Absolutely. Thank you so much, Deb!

host

Alright. Take care. Thanks again. Bye-bye.

host

Thank you. You, too. Bye-bye!

music

“Ones and Zeroes” by “Awesome.” Steady, driving electric guitar with drum and woodwinds. [Music fades out.]

host

I… love Deb Perelman. And I love her banana bread and her righteous sense of justice. [Laughs.] Guys, it is discussions like that and the ability to have guests on like that and talk about these things—the way we have always tried to talk about issues—with honesty and humor and urgency, sometimes. Is one of the things I love about being able to make this podcast. So… again, it’s MaxFunDrive and we know that there are many, many worthy causes. [Laughs.] Particularly right now. And we know that some people are not in a financial position to be MaxFun members. We get it. We completely understand that. In fact— [Laughs.] I feel like One Bad Mother is born to understand that. But if you are in a position to invest in this show, we would really appreciate you supporting our ability to make it. You can visit MaximumFun.org/join and you’ll see all the ways you can give. Again, most people choose $5 or $10 a month. $5 a month is, like, y’know. A Starbucks. Not even a venti Starbucks! [Laughs.] Just like a cappuccino grande Starbucks. And some give more, like $20 a month or more. We are really and truly grateful for whatever level of support you are comfortable with. As always—like I mentioned at the top—there are gifts! This year, Maximum Fun has put together the MaxFun Game Pack. It includes a set of MaxFun-branded dice in a velvet bag to fondle. With the rocket logo. As well as a deck of custom MaxFun-inspired cards. Each face card holds several designs nodding to shows on the network. That’s just one of a lot of different gifts that we are giving away this year. Again, the enamel pin—every year there has been an enamel pin for each show and ours this year is “Sack of Bananas.” ‘Cause we really feel that’s been the theme of this year. [Laughs.] So, once again, we are all working as hard as we can. I think of Renee Colvert over at Can I Pet Your Dog. I’m thinking about James Arthur over on Minority Korner. Those are just two of the hosts who have graciously given their time to One Bad Mother while we have been… getting through this time when Theresa has had to take time for her family. Which we 100% support. So all of these hosts—we’re all working as hard as we can and going through this to make sure that they have something meaningful to share with you during this time. We are so grateful to those who have already supported our ability to do this. Not just for us, but for all the people who enjoy what we do. And we want to continue to do it. Because of you membership. So thank you, thank you, thank you. Again, you can head over to MaximumFun.org/join to find out more. Now we’re gonna find out more about our lovely producer, Hannah, because she’s going to join me for genius and fails! [Laughs.]

host

Hey, you know what it’s time for! This week’s genius and fails! This is the part of the show where we share our genius moment of the week, as well as our failures, and feel better about ourselves by hearing yours. You can share some of your own by calling 206-350-9485. That’s 206-350-9485.

host

Genius fail time, Hannah. Ladies and gentlemen, this is very exciting! In honor— [Laughs.] Of MaxFunDrive and in honor of it being yet another delightfully weird _One Bad Mother_s show, the amazing producer Hannah is going to join us for genius and fails. So it is with great pleasure that I get to say—genius me, Hannah!

clip

[Dramatic, swelling music in background.] Biz: Wow! Oh my God! Oh my God! I saw what you did! Oh my God! I’m paying attention! Wow! You, mom, are a genius. Oh my God, that’s fucking genius! [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective genius moments of the week.]

host

[Laughs.] Well, hello, Biz! [Biz laughs.] It’s fun to be on this side of things. Alright! So as you know I have, uh, during this time of the pandemic, been trying to steal my neighbor’s cat from them. My neighbor has an indoor-outdoor cat who is adorable and since I mostly have lived alone during this time, the cat has become my friend. And… [Biz laughs.] Over the July 4th evening, my neighborhood—like so many people in LA—just became… it was incredibly loud. And I—it was surprising and shocking. And the neighbor’s cat was outside, and I could tell he was very scared so I let him in the house. And I just had him in the house all evening and we just hung out together and I pet him and I told him it was gonna be okay and so that was my genius. I just let him in and we survived July 4th together.

host

You are so great! For those who need to know, Hannah is allergic to cats.

host

It’s true. [Laughs.]

host

Though I think somebody has found a new best friend that is going to—I am so excited about this relationship that you have developed with this cat. Who is very cute. And I will demand you post a picture on the Instagram of this adorable cat. You are doing… such a good job.

host

Thank you.

host

Okay. I—if there’s one thing I have—I had great skill for and have developed even further—pre- and post-kids—it’s my ability to assemble forts. I am a great fort maker. And so when Hannah said to me, “Hey Biz! The sound could still be a lot better.” [Laughs.] [Hannah laughs.] “Can you figure out, like, some way to… like… set up walls or something to help make more of a studio for sound? Do you think you could?” And she was actually suggesting some really thoughtful and probably good suggestions that I said—“No, no! I’ve got this!” And I will also be posting a picture of my amazing sheet fort recording studio that I have made. That I have to set up every time we [through laughter] record. [Laughs.] I have, like, put screws in the ceiling that of course have fallen out immediately.

host

Of course.

host

And it’s all—it’s all happening in this room. Katy Belle walked in today and was like, “Whoa! Well. Look at that.” And I was like— [Laughs.] ’Cause they never see it! I’m always, like… the door’s always shut! So… it’s—it’s—it’s my genius. I’ve adapted.

host

It’s a real genius and I will say, I’ve really benefitted from this genius. I really appreciate it. [Biz laughs.] I think it—it—you’re doing a great job. And also, it’s, um, I like the sheets. I get to look at them. They’re very cute sheets. Every week.

host

I think… going forward, just to make life a little spicier for you, Hannah, I’m gonna mix up the sheets.

host

Oooh! I’m – [Laughs.]

host

Yep! [Laughs.]

host

[Through laughter] This is very exciting. I look forward to this. [Laughs.] Good job.

host

Whew! Thank you.

caller

[Answering machine beeps.] Hey, guys! I’m choosing to call this a genius but you can call it a fail if you want to ‘cause I think that’s totally fair! [Through laughter] So my genius is that I almost failed and then I didn’t. So I went to change my daughter’s diaper after her nap and I noticed it was, like, really full and her onesie was, like, a little wet around the diaper and I’m like, y’know what? It’ll dry in a minute. Like, I know it’s pee but it’ll be fine. It’ll dry. Whatever. So I’m carrying my daughter upstairs. My hip starts to get a little wet and I’m like, y’know what? It’s fine. My shirt has pee on it [through laughter] but it’ll dry. So she and I sit down on the floor in her room and my genius is that I was like, no! No, it’s not fine. We don’t have to sit here in urine. [Biz laughs.] I can get a new shirt for my daughter. I can get a new shirt for myself, and, uh, we won’t be covered in pee! So that’s my, uh… genius fail thing. [Biz laughs.] Anyway, you guys are doing a great job. I’m… doing okay. Bye.

host

No, no, no! You are doing a great job. Any time we can decide that we don’t have to sit in urine, and are able to change that, uh, it is a win. It is definitely a win. You are doing an amazing job being a person! Good job! Failures.

clip

[Dramatic orchestral music plays in the background.] Theresa: [In a voice akin to the Wicked Witch of the West] Fail. Fail. Fail. FAIL! [Timpani with foot pedal engaged for humorous effect.] Biz: [Calmly] You suck! [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective failures of the week.]

host

Fail me, Hannah. [Laughs.]

host

When I moved into my apartment a year ago, my room that I’m living in was like a avocado green color? And I painted it this sort of white with a—with a hint of pink? It’s a really pretty color. And I missed this whole section— [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.] At the top by the ceiling where there’s like green still. And this is a really long fail. This has been going on for a year. I still have the paint. I haven’t painted that little section that’s green. [Biz laughs.] And once the lockdown started I thought, “Oh my gosh, this is such a good opportunity for me to be able to do this. Now I’m spending so much time at home, I’m working in my room so I look up and I see that green spot of paint and it annoys me?” Still haven’t done it. Still haven’t painted it. Nope.

host

Wow.

host

Yep.

host

That is… it’s—it—I don’t think you should ever paint it. [Hannah laughs.] Because I think you should be reminded daily of how horrible it all is.

host

Yes. [Biz laughs.] [Through laughter] Thank you.

host

You’re welcome! You’re doing a horrible job!

host

[Through laughter] Thanks.

host

Uh, just, like, even being in an apartment. [Laughs.]

host

Yeah. Terrible.

host

It’s like—terrible! I—okay. [Laughs.] I—when the pandemic started, I decided, wouldn’t it be delighted to get the children some sort of very educational, delightful subscription to a magazine? So— [Laughs.] I got them… uh, two different, like, sort of literary/science magazines. And they finally arrived. And Ellis’s was all about ice cream. And so there were just, like, page after page of like, how to make ice cream. And I was prepared for that, so the fail is not that we made—or didn’t make—ice cream. But, like, how to make ice cream; the history of ice cream; we know a lot about George Washington and ice cream and like— [Laughs.] All this stuff. And at the end, there is a page—I don’t know if this is gonna happen every issue. But there was a prank page. It was how to set up this spilled ice cream prank. You take glue and you mix it with, like, white or brown paint. Right? So you have chocolate or vanilla. And if you have an ice cream cone, y’know, like, it’s supposed to look like it has spilled out. And you put it, like, on wax paper. And then when it dries—the next day—right? Like, ‘cause it dries. I assumed that would take, y’know, overnight. You then put it somewhere and you go, “Oh no!” [Hannah laughs.] “Ice cream!” And… so we made it. We were very excited. And we didn’t have a cone but we had a little ice cream bowl. And we put it in his closet to dry. Overnight. ‘Cause we didn’t want anybody to see it. It was not dry the next morning. It was not dry for several days. Apparently it needed more air. [Hannah laughs.] So we had to keep moving it around to, like… areas that it might get more air and yet not be seen by Stefan or Katy Belle. It took many days. That was very disappointing. We did finally get it dry enough, and it does look pretty amazing. I will also post that picture.

host

Yes!

host

Uh, and Ellis did get to “Oh no! Ice cream.” The double fail in how long it took—the additional fail is that when we then moved it on to Katy Belle’s bed to surprise her, uh, it actually—there’s still actually a spot that wasn’t dry? And so it left a disgusting brown, gluey stain on her pastel, uh, sheets. So.

host

Oh, no!

host

“Oh no! Ice cream!” [Laughs.]

host

How dare you try to cultivate creativity and fun in your children’s lives. Right? [Laughs.]

host

I’m gonna crush that! Crushing that going forward. [Laughs.]

caller

[Answering machine beeps.] Hi, One Bad Mother! Um, this is a fail. And before I tell you the fail I just—I waited to make sure everything turned out okay before I called it in. So everyone’s okay. So my husband and I both work from home while our kids are home during this time. And I’ve been really trying to keep my five-year-old busy and engaged and so one of the things that has been good when my husband and I both need to be on work calls is that I set up the iPad with Zoom for my five-year-old to talk to her best friend and they just play Legos on the Zoom and it’s great. That would be great, except the other day I was doing this and I went up to my room, all set up for a call. He was happy and then he ran into the room looking very upset and it turned out he’d been trying to take apart two Legos and one of them flew back into the back of his throat and he swallowed it. And he was very scared and my first fail was that I totally panicked— [Biz laughs.] —and scared him even more. But then I called the pediatrician and she told me what to do and what to look out for. It was like a flat Lego square with four dots on it, y’know? It wasn’t tiny! It’s kinda big! So it was a little scary. But, um… then when I kind of calmed down and helped him calm down I remembered that I had this—this is the second fail—I had this Curious George book where Curious George swallows a puzzle piece. And I remembered that we had this book and I thought, okay, perfect! So we start reading it and I’m reading it and I realize, oh, no. This is not great. Because it turns out [through laughter] in the book, Curious George has to, like, go to a hospital for two nights. [Biz laughs.] And have a minor procedure to get the puzzle piece out. So then my son was all worried about that. Anyway. I assured him that wasn’t to going to happen and we followed directions and after two days the Lego piece came out and all was well. [Biz laughs.] So the only way I could kind of turn this into a genius during this weird times is that then we spent the rest of the week doing, like, a homeschool lesson on the human digestive system. [Laughs.]  [Biz laughs.] So that was that. Um, yeah! That’s all! That’s my fail! You guys are doing a great job. Bye.

host

I… love you. You are doing a horrible job. I—when I first started this fail—listening to this—I thought, “Sack of garbage! This is—y’know, like… this plays so into the, like, [angry and judgmental] ‘Don’t ever leave your children alone for even two minutes!!!’” Y’know, like guilt. That we all experience. So I am very sorry that that happened. But then the moment you said Curious George—I also have that book. It is a book that was written in a different time. That particular book. Curious George swallows that puzzle piece and the man with the yellow hat—like, his stomach start to hurt so the man with the yellow hat takes him to the hospital ‘cause that’s just what you do. You just go to the hospital first and they do an x-ray ‘cause that’s what you do. And he had to drink, like, the chalky—it’s not borax. Whatever it is. The chalky thing so that it shows up and that is traumatic enough. Yeah! And then he’s gotta, like, spend the night in the hospital without the man with the yellow hat. Who has to leave him. He’s like in a children’s ward? [Laughs.] And then, like, the next morning they give him drugs to, like, sedate him? It’s—it is a crazy, terrifying story. So when you said that, I thought—oh, yeah! Here comes the real fail! So you’re doing a horrible job. Though I will have to say, you’re actually doing a wonderful job. Especially with the digestive science thing. Because any time our kids swallow something we don’t want them to? It’s traumatic enough. But! Bad job trying to use books to help. [Laughs.]

music

“Mom Song” by Adira Amram. Mellow piano music with lyrics. You are the greatest mom I’ve ever known. I love you, I love you. When I have a problem, I call you on the phone. I love you, I love you. [Music fades out.]

music

Laid-back acoustic guitar plays in the background.

promo

One Bad Mother is supported in part by Hello Fresh. Get fresh, pre-measured ingredients and mouthwatering seasonal recipes delivered right to your door with Hello Fresh, America’s #1 meal kit. I have had a chance to try Hello Fresh and it is my favorite meal kit delivery service. There is something for everyone, including low calorie, vegetarian, and family-friendly recipes every week. Hello Fresh’s pre-portioned ingredients mean there’s less prep for you and less food waste. Hello Fresh has also donated over 2.5 million meals to charity in 2019, and this year is stepping up their food donations amid the coronavirus crisis. I most recently made Firecracker Meatballs! [Laughs.] They were so good. Go to HelloFresh.com/80badmother and use code “80badmother” to get a total of $80 off, including free shipping on your first box. Additional restrictions apply. Please visit HelloFresh.com for more details. That’s HelloFresh.com/80badmother. [Music finishes.]

host

I’m back! Woo! Still woo-ing all by myself. [Laughs.] Because Theresa is still taking the time that she needs to care for her family and this week, we’re just gonna jump right into the rant? So let’s listen to something we can all relate to, which is a mom having a breakdown.

caller

[Answering machine beeps.] I think this might be a rant? I don’t know. I just feel like calling. I feel like nobody listens or hears me anymore. Like, literally. My children don’t hear me when I even bribe them with fucking donuts so I can go buy some plants? People don’t hear me. My husband interrupts me halfway through my story because something happened with the kids or he suddenly remembered something, but nobody asks me, like, “Oh, what were you saying?” My best friend’s phone doesn’t work right, so when I’m talking to her she’s literally like, “Did I hang up with you? What’s going on? Hello? Hello?” And I feel like I… I’m just—I’m just done with this. [Deep breath and sigh.] On my camera roll it looks like I’ve been doing amazing and there are times when things are good. And I am doing good stuff. But they’re just assholes. [Biz laughs.] I just am starting to think that I’m raising little assholes who have no consideration and no sense of… gratefulness. And I don’t know how to correct that. And since they’re at home with me now, all the fucking time, it feels like it’s just all on me. All the ways that I’m failing as a mom is on me. And when my husband comes home and says that they’re acting like jerks, I know—I know. And I already feel like I’m doing a shitty job. I don’t need you also railing on them. I don’t need that. I need someone to, like, lift us up and tell us all that we’re doing an okay job. [Biz laughs.] And it’s alright and they’re just kids. And they won’t be terrible forever. [Sighs.] Thank you. Thank you for listening. You guys are doing a really good job.

host

You… are amazing. And you are doing a great job. I… feel all of this. Um, I don’t know how old your kids are? But I know that I go through this cycle especially with the gratitude? A lot. And… but I wanna start with the feeling like no one is listening to you? Oooh! That is real. That is a real feeling! Oh my god, I—it—that—I can’t think of a time—especially once I became a parent—where I didn’t become hyperaware of feeling… that I was just talking into the wind. The constant interruption—I mean, the constant interruptions. And then for some reason, whenever Stefan notices it and makes a comment, like, “Don’t interrupt your mother!” [Laughs.] Like for some reason that makes me even crazier. Because then every—y’know—ugh. I become the, like, five-year-old who’s like, [sullenly] “It’s not worth saying anyway. IT’s gone. It’s over. I don’t wanna say it.” [Regular voice] Right? And it also plays into the—into the—if no one is asking about how my day is, then should I even care… about myself and my day. Right? Like, it is the simple act of somebody asking how you’re doing that can make such a difference. And… the—like—I—your—your kids aren’t assholes. Probably. [Laughs.] Just like mine aren’t. And we don’t usually, like, actually play calls where people refer to their children as assholes? But I—I—there is nothing mean or… cruel about what you’re saying. You are—you are in that moment of exhaustion? And… that moment of, “oh my god, am I raising jerks?” Like, I—I really have wondered this about myself. Am I raising jerks? Is gratitude something that people can show immediately upon birth? Oh, the answer to that’s “no.” Is—is anything I’m doing… like… helping prevent them from being jerks? And is there—is everything I’m doing the cause of them being jerks. I’m gonna have to guess—probably not. Kids are, like, inherently find gratitude hard to express at different ages. Okay?

host

I mean, the number of times I’ve wanted to be like, “Oh, okay. Well I’m just gonna take everything out of your room, then!” [Laughs.] Like, “That’ll teach you gratitude! We are living in the woods for a month!” Right? Like, just crazy… it’s not gonna help. It’s probably gonna be more scarring. It’s a long game? But that’s really hard to… remember and provide any comfort when we are not allowed any time away from our children? And vice-versa. And the final thing that I relate to so hard—and I see you—is the—is—if you have a partner—having a partner who comes home and you didn’t marry an asshole. Y’know. This is about… wording and tone and us trying to figure out how to let our partners or the people in our lives know what we need. And Stefan is like an emotional sponge when I am having a really rough day and the kids are? He picks it right up. And it seems to add to it. It adds to the mood and the environment. And I—those words, “I just wish he would come in and lift us up and tell us we’re doing a good job”? I am actually going to use your words. And help express what it is that I need… from my partner. Right? Like, I think… we commiserate? Sometimes, we think that that’s helpful. I think that we, like, “Yes! Everything’s a shitshow!” Right? But… and there is some… good that can come from commiserating? But again… that can also leave one person feeling… like it’s their fault if they’re already wrestling with guilt. Okay? So I get it. I really, really do. And I want you to know that you’re doing an incredible job. There’s nothing normal about what’s happening in our houses right now. We cannot control how our kids are processing this? And… we can’t control that a lot of times we are… their source of regulation? Which is incredibly difficult. You are not alone. At all. Really. You’re not alone. You’re doing… a good job. And your kids—I’m just gonna, like—I’m gonna say it—go against our policy—I’m gonna say it. Your children are not gonna grow up to be assholes. [Laughs.] Okay? I’m feeling pretty good about that. [Deep breath.]

host

What did we learn today, Hannah? [Laughs.] What we learned is that I love talking with Deb Perelman. I loved talking to her over a year and a half ago when we had her on last to talk about cooking and parenting and I love her even more now. Because of her ability to put words to all the feelings that I’ve been having and… I know a lot of you are having ‘cause I listen to the calls. [Laughs.] About how difficult it is to be a working parent right now. And it—[sighs.] It’s so much about being a working parent. And it’s also about just being a parent in this country! It is—we are not left with a lot of choices. And yet everybody wants us to make choices. And right now the choices are harder than they have ever been before, because it involves our health and the health of others. And… that’s impossible! And I—I just… I am reminded to continue to support teachers and to reach out to, uh, our representatives. Both all the way up to congress and the senate? But also down to our school boards! Show up at those meetings! They’re running those school board meetings on Facebook, guys. Go look! Find out who your rep is in your district. Alright? And call them! “What are you guys gonna do about this? Are there gonna be paper towels in the classrooms? How can you guarantee this? What can I do to support you in making this happen?” is also a good question. This is not a problem that’s gonna be solved by one of us. It’s gonna be a problem that’s solved by all of us. And we all need to be talking and asking how we can help our communities do this. Not just getting our kids back to school, but making it safe. Making it possible for our families and our neighbors to work and be parents? Kids are in this world, guys! They’re not going anywhere! Okay? So we’re gonna have to talk to each other and solve this problem together. And I think we—we can. I really—I really hope we can? 

host

We also learned that it is the MaxFunDrive and I have to tell you—this is a very hard MaxFunDrive because it—I miss Theresa so very, very much. She and I have been doing this show together since the beginning and we have become friends. Because of this show. And… I… know that she is putting every bit of herself into taking care of her family right now. And I know how difficult that is. And… I miss her? But I am here to support her. We made a bunch of videos before COVID hit when we thought the Drive was gonna be back in March. Hannah came over and we shot a bunch of weird videos. And I’m gonna release them. Because they’re not horribly inappropriate. It’s just that we’re together without masks, inside a house. [Laughs.] But watching them? I miss Theresa! Guys. Um, and I know you guys do, too, and I wanna say how grateful I am that you guys have been… so, uh, patient with us and have, uh, stuck with us. So I thank you for your support in listening to the show. We’re gonna be doing the MaxFunDrive for four weeks. If you can support it financially this year, we would really like your support. Because it allows us to be able to do this as a job. So again—you can go to MaximumFun.org/join to find out how you can support the show. Again, even $5 a month makes a huge, huge impact on us being able to do this. We’re gonna be around over the next four weeks with a lot of fun surprises. I am just gonna say… Bop-It? For MaxFunDrive? There are going to be some other fun things we’ll be putting out there over the next four weeks, and at the end of this week there’s going to be a pub trivia show with John Hodgman and Chuck Bryant, so again—if you go over to MaximumFun.org/join you can find out about the pub trivia that will be going on.

host

Thank you guys so much. And now for the really important thing, and that is to tell you that you are doing a very good job. That’s it. You’re doing… a good job. I listen to the calls every week, and it’s remarkable. The reminder of how… all the things that are difficult without a pandemic are still happening. A pandemic has not stopped pets from getting sick. It has not stopped loved ones from getting sick. It is not suddenly—kids who had special needs don’t suddenly not— [Laughs.] Have them? They still require so much. And… we’re all having to navigate all of these new restrictions. And… to help—to help our loved ones. And it is quite literally too much. And you’re all doing a good job. You are not alone. We see you. Let’s go out and see each other, because we all have something that’s going on. ‘K? Everybody? I… will be back next week! With yet another fun One Bad Mother show surprise! [Laughs.] So I will talk to you guys… next week. Bye!

music

“Mama Blues” by Cornbread Ted and the Butterbeans. Strumming acoustic guitar with harmonica and lyrics. I got the lowdown momma blues Got the the lowdown momma blues Gots the lowdown momma blues The lowdown momma blues. Gots the lowdown momma blues Got the lowdown momma blues You know that’s right. [Music fades somewhat, plays in background of dialogue.]

host

We’d like to thank MaxFun; our producer, Hannah Smith; our husbands, Stefan Lawrence and Jesse Thorn; our perfect children, who provide us with inspiration to say all these horrible things; and of course, you, our listeners. To find out more about the songs you heard on today’s podcast and more about the show, please go to MaximumFun.org/onebadmother. For information about live shows, our book and press, please check out OneBadMotherPodcast.com.

host

One Bad Mother is a member of the Maximum Fun family of podcasts. To support the show go to MaximumFun.org/donate. [Music continues for a while before fading out.]

guest

MaximumFun.org.

guest

Comedy and culture.

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Artist owned—

guest

—Audience supported.

About the show

One Bad Mother is a comedy podcast hosted by Biz Ellis and Theresa Thorn about motherhood and how unnatural it sometimes is. We aren’t all magical vessels!

Join us every week as we deal with the thrills and embarrassments of motherhood and strive for less judging and more laughing.

Call in your geniuses and fails: 206-350-9485. For booking and guest ideas, please email onebadmother@maximumfun.org. To keep up with One Bad Mother on social media, follow @onebadmothers on Twitter and Instagram.

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