Transcript
biz
Hi. I’m Biz.
theresa
And I’m Theresa.
biz
Due to the pandemic, we bring you One Bad Mother straight from our homes—including such interruptions as: children! Animal noises! And more! So let’s all get a little closer while we have to be so far apart. And remember—we are doing a good job.
music
“Summoning the Rawk” by Kevin MacLeod. Driving electric guitar and heavy drums. [Continues through dialogue.]
biz
This week on One Bad Mother—get off of me! Plus Biz is the jacks master; Theresa is back!; and we talk to Lydia Elle about helping our kids and ourselves be anti-racist. [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other throughout.]
crosstalk
Biz and Theresa: Wooooo! [Biz’s “Woo” is particularly enthusiastic, involving significant changes in pitch and plenty of vibrato.]
biz
Theresa!!!
theresa
Hi.
biz
Oh, god.
theresa
Yeah.
biz
I love you.
theresa
I know. I love you.
crosstalk
Biz: I—yeah. No. It’s—I—wow. Ughhh! Uhhh! [Laughs.] Theresa: I know. No, I know. I know! I know! Biz: Ahhh! A-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la. Theresa: I don’t even know how many shows I missed. That’s where—that’s what the—that’s what’s going on with me. Biz: I don’t—yeah.
theresa
Like, I have no concept of time at this point.
biz
You—yeah. No. You could’ve had a whole ‘nother baby at this point in time.
theresa
Yeah! Oh, sure! [Biz laughs.] And maybe I did!
biz
Maybe you did. But you’ll never know, listeners! [Theresa laughs.] We’ll never tell! That’s what One Bad Mother is about—never telling!
theresa
Just speaking vaguely— [Biz laughs.] —just coming—coming here to speak vaguely about things being weird.
biz
Yep! Let’s— [Theresa laughs.] Keep that up! This is the perfect environment for that, I think! Before I ask you how you are, and I am desperate to know, I’m going to just say what we’ve been saying since [through laughter] this began. And oh, ho, ho! My! I just don’t think it was gonna still be going on. Which is crazy. I mean, it’s not like you can… like… calendar a pandemic.
theresa
I think we knew, we just couldn’t comprehend it. Like, I think all information told us it would last this long. Like, within like a week of it starting. But we just couldn’t… that could not get into our brains. [Laughs.] Like, we just could not— [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.]
biz
Here’s a secret—it still won’t come into my brain!
crosstalk
Biz: I still cannot get my head around it. Theresa: No! I know! I know. I know.
biz
And in case somebody’s listening to this in the far, far future— [Laughs.] We’re talking about, uh, the pandemic. And… sheltering in place. And… businesses being closed and people losing jobs and… the scariest and hardest part is—people we love being incredibly sick or dying and it is… ahh! It’s crazy! Like, I mean, our whole way of thinking has been altered in terms of… risk. And… I mean, it’s not like as a parent I didn’t already have like a weird… risk radar. That’s—that’s definitely gone up. But I—we can’t… move forward without first just saying to everybody—thank you. Thank you. Thank you. To all essential workers. Thank you, everybody, who is still working at the grocery store. Thank you to everybody who is bringing food to the store. Thank you to everybody who is still… managing their restaurants and getting food out to delivery people and of course to our medical community. And that is from doctors to nurses to RNs… to EMTs to the people who are data-entering! [Laughs.] I can’t—nothing can run without all the people who work in… the medical industry. You guys are doing such an incredible job. Thank you. And… again—thank you to everyone who has been out and has continued to go out and… work so very hard to help us move forward as a country to fight the institutional racism that we confront. Every day. And… I just—thank you. For doing that. And for everybody who’s staying at home, that is also essential, too. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Theresa? How… are you? God, I hope you say fine. [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.]
theresa
Uh, I’m fine. I’m here. I’m really happy to be here today. I mean, I was gone dealing with family mental health stuff and… y’know, a lot of that can make you feel really alone? And this situation that we find ourselves in has a potential to make us feel really alone? Because whatever we’re going through, we’re going through it alone? In our own houses or wherever we are? But… I was comforted to hear from one of my kids’ therapists something which I will pass along to you all, which was that in the course of getting some support from her about some stuff we were dealing with at home, that… she just said, “Oh, y’know, by the way… none of the families I work with are not struggling right now.”
biz
Wow.
theresa
Obviously these are already families who are in therapy. Right? So at some point we’ve all been struggling. That’s usually why you’re in therapy. But… [Biz laughs.] We’re talking about—
biz
That’s why I’m there!
theresa
Yeah! That’s why I’m there, too. But she’s talking about an extra level of struggling and she said across the board—across all of her clients—everybody is struggling right now. I mean, that’s really depressing! Like, I get— [through laughter] I get that I’m passing along something like really upsetting? Like, that as a whole… we’re suffering. Humans are suffering right now. For me, the reason I’m passing it along is ‘cause for me that was a comfort to hear? On some level. That there isn’t something especially terrible about my own life right now. [Biz laughs.] Like, there’s—there may be something special about my situation, but there’s special things in everyone’s lives. And everybody is… being touched by this moment in time in a different way. And we’re—we’re getting through it! We’re getting through dark times, guys. So I’m glad to be getting through those dark times with all of you and Biz, I’m really grateful for you and all your work keeping this show going when I could not think clearly enough to know what day it was. For many days in a row. [Biz laughs.]
biz
It’s been 22 years— [Theresa laughs.]
theresa
Oh no! That’s way longer— [Biz laughs.] —than I was guessing! [Laughs.] That is significantly longer. [Laughs.]
biz
It is no longer okay to give your kids peanut butter or solids again. We’ve come full circle. [Theresa laughs.] We’ve come full circle with that. Peanut butter—
theresa
No solids—no solids, period. For any kids. No solids. We’re on a completely liquid diet for all kids now. [Laughs.]
biz
Totally… liquid. So good news for blenders! [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.]
theresa
So how are you, Biz?
biz
I’m alright.
theresa
Okay.
biz
I mean, we’re healthy and we’re home and—yeah! It’s… it’s okay. I—as a whole unit. Individually, I am just fried and done and… I, y’know. I said it last week—I’m—my patience is completely shot. I go from feeling like I’ve got it all under control to minutes later being, like, if I—I just hear a voice—like any voice—I’m going to… just walk out the door. I’ll grab my mask and will walk out the door. And… Just like… how much… I’m… president of everything-ing right now is—it’s stunning. Like, there are moments where I am like, I am stunned that I have to be thinking about this. And I wanna call bullshit on it. All that said—a little joy in my life is that Katy Belle has discovered my old jacks set? Jacks is the game—the little metal—little metal jacks, uh, that are worse to step on than Legos? Uh, with the bouncy ball. And they no longer make the metal jacks? They stopped making ‘em, like… a long time ago. Like, maybe 15 years ago? So this set’s been around for a while. And I still have the ball. And Katy Belle has been doing it. And she’s really good at it. But all my mad jacks skills came flying back. I was remembering stuff like “Pigs in a Blanket” and like, y’know, like—“Pigs in the Sty!” “Pigs over the Fence!” and like all these different versions of the game that I used to play? And I am so good and daily, I am crushing her at jacks. [Theresa laughs.] Daily. And she is of the age where she just keeps coming back, wanting to do it again? And it’s not as, like… crushing? As it was even a year ago?
theresa
Yeah! It’s like a good challenge for her.
biz
Yes.
theresa
Yeah.
biz
And I… am so enjoying playing jacks, guys. [Laughs.]
theresa
Yeah. That’s great.
biz
Makes me, like, stupid happy. But of course, Ellis will come out to watch and just sit! Try—just—like, literally I’ll be in the middle of playing and he will sit in my lap, which is not conducive to jacks playing.
theresa
No.
biz
Which is gonna tie in nicely to what we’re gonna talk about today, which is… Get. Off. Of. Me! [Laughs.]
music
Banjo strums; cheerful banjo music continues through dialogue.
theresa
Please—take a moment to remember: If you’re friends of the hosts of One Bad Mother, you should assume that when we talk about other moms, we’re talking about you.
biz
If you are married to the host of One Bad Mother, we definitely are talking about you.
theresa
Nothing we say constitutes professional parenting advice.
biz
Biz and Theresa’s children are brilliant, lovely, and exceedingly extraordinary.
theresa
Nothing said on this podcast about them implies otherwise. [Banjo music fades out.] [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss the weekly topic.]
biz
Theresa. I think… I’ve made it fairly clear throughout the history of this show… that Ellis really likes me. And likes being physically close to me.
theresa
Mm-hm.
biz
I think this is like an established fact.
theresa
Yeah. It’s like a test for if you listen to this show. Like—
biz
Yeah. It’s a test. Yeah.
crosstalk
Theresa: If you don’t know that— Biz: Who— [Laughs.] Who has— [Laughs.]
theresa
—about Ellis, then you have not been listening very carefully to this show.
biz
Yeah. Exact—who is Biz? [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] So… since—since the coronavirus, Ellis—that need has—
theresa
It went away, right? It just went away.
biz
It just—it was a—
theresa
Just—cured! Right?
biz
He’s really blossomed and taken on some major independence? [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] And—in fact, it’s the opposite. Uh, there’s more touching now than ever—I—okay. I’m not gonna say ever before. There is as much touching as when he was an infant. Except the difference is he is now the size of a seven-year-old. So it feels like even more touching? Because there’s more of him?
theresa
There’s more surface area.
crosstalk
Biz: Touching me. Yeah. More surface area. Theresa: Touching your surface area. Yeah.
biz
It’s like a full-on… regression. And… I just—like, I feel like there’s two things I would love to talk with you about and I’m happy to go in any direction you would like to go if it’s not just these two. And one is—just the emotional… reality of being, like, touched that much? And two, my absolute fear that we’re never going to come out on the other side of this. Like, that this really is a regression that, like… is gonna be a lot of work.
theresa
Yeah.
biz
When school one day comes back. So… I already know that [through laughter] Oscar’s been doing this to you? And it makes me feel so much better? Tell me what’s going on.
theresa
I mean, it’s—it’s so much. Like, it’s—and you guys know, I have three kids. Oscar’s my middle child. He’s the same age as Ellis. And this is something about my relationship with him as well. It’s not this way with my other two kids. Neither of my other two kids are like this. I mean, we have an affectionate relationship, but for some reason with Oscar, it’s like… he has like a sensory need that only I can fill. Like, there’s no… it’s like a physical body need to like, squeeze my arms and sit on me. And be touching me. A lot of the time. That is… it’s bigger than I can understand, really? Or comprehend. And, the same with you, this is something we worked on. Before! Like, around the ages that it kind of made sense. Where he was, like, four, five. Starting to go off to Pre-K. Starting to off to kindergarten. We worked with—he was in OT for a while and we worked with his OT on—Occupational Therapy, for those of you who don’t know what that is—on, like, alternate things he could do. To fill that need. Y’know? They—they made, um… rubber balloons filled with flour? Like, not blown up, but just, y’know, like, a small rubber balloon filled with flour. Tied. They would make, like, hair gel in a Ziploc bag. There was lots of different things you can try. There was like squishy frogs or squishy animals you can buy. Squeezy things. And things that can stay—help your body stay cool. And the—y’know, just, like, other things that can—y’know, sort of feed that—that need. But what many people have said to me—and what I believe is to be true—is that the reason none of those have really been the substitute is because they are not his mother!
biz
Yeah! [Laughs.]
theresa
So— [Laughs.]
biz
Okay. Wait. [Through laughter] Sorry! Oh, god! What?! [Theresa laughs.] This balloon full of shaving cream isn’t a good substitute for your—
theresa
For a mom? [Laughs.]
biz
For a mom? Right? Didn’t I see, like, an experiment with like a monkey once in AP Psychology? Okay. Alright. I just wanna—
crosstalk
Biz: There is so much with this that I—okay. Theresa: Yeah. There’s a lot. There’s a lot.
biz
One, describing it as a sensory… need.
theresa
Uh-huh!
biz
Is—is—I hadn’t thought of it that way? But it’s—that rings so true. But not, like, as you were describing what the occupational therapist had suggested, I was like, okay. Mm, there may be two things happening here. One is Oscar’s, like, literal, tangible need of squishing something. In which—yes.
crosstalk
Theresa: That could help. That might feel good. Yeah. Yeah. Biz: A flour balloon… might be nice.
biz
But the other thing that’s going on— [Theresa laughs.] —is just the all-over, physical need—like, for me, it’s always been his—I’ve always been his regulator. Like, I am the one—never took a pacifier. Didn’t do the bottle. It was always me. And then, y’know, holding—like, every kid at school is off running and he is next to me. And I remember this year, there were like three separate days in the school year as we knew it where he went off to play with somebody. For—even for, like, two minutes. And I—it was like—it was definitely one of those moments where no one gave a shit or understood why I was so, like, [gasps.] “He’s not next to me!” And I think about your squishy thing and… the touching you and… there’s no question it’s about needing… some sort of physical regulation using our bodies—as mothers—to do that. How the—so how the hell do you—you get ‘em to stop? And like, every time I talk with my therapist about this, I say, “I know that this is his way of processing this big, scary change. I understand that. However… it’s so much.”
theresa
Like, I think—I think the reason this is relevant now in a way that it wasn’t a year or two ago, when all of this—I think our kids have been doing this for a long time. Was that now, it—like… there was a time where I felt like it was getting better. And… like, a year ago, I actually—‘cause with my situation, Oscar is like… the way that—the way that this gets the most out of hand is my arms? Like, he just has a thing about touching my upper arms. I don’t know. But that’s the thing that is like… [Biz laughs.] That’s the thing that is really uncomfortable to me. Like, I’m happy to snuggle. I’m happy to hug. I’m happy to have him on my lap. Happy to hold hands. I’m happy to, like, do all these things. But like the arm squeezing just feels like it’s weirdly disembodied from me? Like I’m being—I’m an object being used for his [through laughter] physical comfort in this weird way that I’m just, like, not enjoying? [Biz laughs.] I’m like, this isn’t even about us, really. Y’know, like I’m not—it’s just weird.
biz
I am your cigarette. [Laughs.]
theresa
Yes! Exactly! And so I did, like, I—after—like, a year ago. After talking to my mom, who’s a therapist, about this situation a lot and talking to my therapist and talking to the OT that Oscar was seeing. I like finally came around to something I felt bad about, but I was like—I am going to tell him that we are done with the upper arms. Like, the upper arms are just off-limits, period. And we did! We went through a whole thing. And that’s part of why this time is now so painful. Because this was like a year ago. We went through it! We did it! He did really well with it. There was a lot of preparation for it. There were other comfort options I offered to him. We, like, I—I was able to focus a lot of my attention on that situation because other kids were elsewhere. Or like, other—y’know. There was other—I didn’t have everyone up in my face, having their own crisis, all the time. [Biz laughs.] So I was able to, like, really work on it with him and we handled it like really well. To the point where it was not a problem! For a while! For months. For months it was not a problem and that’s how it creeped back in at the start of, like, the—
crosstalk
Biz: All of this. Theresa: —sheltering in place.
theresa
Because he would do it a little bit and it wasn’t bothering me ‘cause he almost never did it. And it was like, while we were snuggling at night. Or like while we were reading a book. And it just snuck back in. And now—because, like, everybody in my house has regressed. All of us have regressed. And we’re all under stress and we’re all… surrounded by each others’ stress all the time. And I feel guilty ‘cause I can’t be there for him in the way that I would like to. Y’know? So I allowed him to do that and now it’s so outta control. And I also—simultaneously—like, you were saying this feeling that like it—this will never go away. Or that it’s gonna take a ton of work to make it go away. I’m going through this thing right now where I’m thinking, like, for the longest time now I’ve been thinking I will deal with this later. And now I’m starting to realize—I don’t know when later will ever be! And so maybe I have to do it right now in the middle of this hell!
crosstalk
Theresa: Like, in the middle of everything being horrible. Biz: Everything else. On—with everything else. Yeah.
theresa
And like will that be really traumatizing for him? Do you know what I mean? Like, will that even work? Will that even be good?
biz
It’s the… it definitely falls into that, like, “Am I failing or am I doing the right thing right now?” Because that’s how—this also—it just—it was like, well, duh! He’s doing this because it’s scary and sad! This is how he’s doing it! I’m gonna—obviously! I love you! I’ve got you! Right? And then… it, y’know, is more and more and more. They’re never gonna, like… y’know.
theresa
It’s self-reinforcing.
biz
Yes! It’s self-reinforcing. The boundaries are all gone. And what makes it different is—yeah! There is no separation time. For it to work itself… out. Right? Like, even if I was like—sit in my lap every day! I must have it! At least there would be eight hours of day where he would’ve been at school. Right? Like, with regulating in some other way or going to a friend’s house or learning these skills, which are so important. [Theresa laughs.] Being with other people is so important! Anyway. Um… that it’s—that it’s like, not only—not only is it easier to let them do it—because we are in crisis mode ourselves—we ourselves, right? It is… also more depleting. I feel so depleted from it? And I feel so robbed of, like… any work I’ve done separating my—my “self” self from “mom” self? And like… it’s not just the work we’ve spent years doing with our kids; it’s the work we’ve been doing for ourselves. Trying to not be everything to everyone. And… there is nothing to take that feeling away than the consistent, constant, definitely not respecting, touch. I mean, it’s almost becomes, like, there are times where it’s a violating touch. Right? Like, there are times where it’s like, you are really—
theresa
It’s too much! Ow!
crosstalk
Theresa: Like, no! Stop! Yes! Yeah. Biz: It’s—it—yeah! It’s too much. Ow! Or “no.”
biz
And we, y’know, do those things where I’m like, you may not touch me like that. And we do those kinds of things where like—but, y’know, consistency is hard in this environment. Let’s move to the fact that they’ll never grow out of this— [Theresa laughs.] —and we’re going to have to go to school or job with them. Uh, don’t mind my mother! I just really feel comfortable squeezing her. Let me just— [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] —belly up to the bar and nurse a little, uh, before I turn in my thesis. [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] So… I… am so nervous… about returning to school. We have had, like… four years of preschool leading to kinder leading to… good separation. Y’know? We had the cute hand—even now, we have the cute handshake and it worked and that was enough. And like… y’know, it was all good. And… there’s, like, no way to practice that right now? Right? Like— [Laughs.]
crosstalk
Theresa: Yeah! And even like saying it! Biz: Like, even—
theresa
Like, even, like—like, there’s no point in even being, like, just remember! In a few months, probably, you’ll be leaving— [Biz laughs.] —and we’ll be apart sometimes a lot more. Probably. But we don’t know the surrounding context for that yet. But like, guess what anxious kids don’t do well with?
biz
Yep. If you could start preparing emotionally for something completely unknown… [Theresa laughs.] —that’d be—that’d be great. And do it without me. That’d be awesome. Yeah. I’m like, totally scared. And I even wrote this to our school. I said, y’know… I am slightly less worried about how you guys teach these kids online or prepare to teach them in person than I am—I don’t want anybody to miss the fact that these kids are suddenly going back into a social setting and for some children—like mine!—this is going to be huge. They are going to need help adjusting.
theresa
Yeah! The skills! The regression! The skill re—like, I mean… yes!
biz
Fuck math! I need— [Laughs.]
theresa
I know. I know. And just the recovering from this—yeah. Just, everybody’s gonna need so much emotional support.
biz
Yeah. Do you have anybody to touch? [Theresa laughs.] [Laughs.] I’ll just— [Laughs.]
theresa
That just makes me think of this very morning. [Biz laughs.] After, like, a very difficult… like, 45 minutes with both my two older kids. With Grace and Oscar. I stormed into the kitchen and was making myself a second cup of coffee and Jesse, very supportively, came over and gently rested a hand on my back and said, “Is there anything you need right now?” And I said, “I need everybody to get away from me.” [Biz laughs.]
music
“Ones and Zeroes” by “Awesome.” Steady, driving electric guitar with drum and woodwinds. [Music fades out.]
theresa
Hey, you know what it’s time for! This week’s genius and fails! This is the part of the show where we share our genius moment of the week, as well as our failures, and feel better about ourselves by hearing yours. You can share some of your own by calling 206-350-9485. That’s 206-350-9485.
biz
Genius fail time, Theresa. Genius me!
clip
[Dramatic, swelling music in background.] Biz: Wow! Oh my God! Oh my God! I saw what you did! Oh my God! I’m paying attention! Wow! You, mom, are a genius. Oh my God, that’s fucking genius! [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective genius moments of the week.]
theresa
Okay. I’ve done a lot, guys. And I— [Biz laughs.] —I have done many, many genius—many genius things. Because I’ve been really working my ass off here, guys. I’m gonna share a small genius that made me feel really good about myself. Which was that… we had moved Curtis’s little tiny, uh, play kitchen? Outside. For space reasons and just to, like… hey! It’s fun now ‘cause it’s outside! Like, it stopped being fun inside— [Biz laughs.] —let’s move it outside! But we live next to a giant dirt hill and everything outside in our house—including the outside of our house—just gets really dirty really, really fast? And… I realized that if I just keep a towel in his kitchen— [Biz laughs.] Like, put away in his kitchen? Like, a small towel put away in his kitchen—then when we’re out there, like, every day or every-other day, I just wipe it down really quick? And it’s not dusty anymore! And it’s just still looking like, fresh, and it’s still enjoyable. Whereas it doesn’t have that layer of… [Biz laughs.] Y’know that layer? That shows up? On things that’ve been outside?
biz
Everything! It’s on me! [Laughs.]
theresa
But like I never would wipe it down—if like, I didn’t have that. I just would never—I’m gonna go get a towel. I’m gonna clean right now. No! We’re just playing outside. But if it’s there—it’s already there—then I just do it!
biz
You’re a genius.
theresa
I know.
biz
I’m—I’m so glad your genius bone hasn’t been broken.
theresa
Oh, thank you.
biz
Yeah. I… had spent the last few years trying to figure out how to be a self? And get a little art back in my life? Or creative space back in my life. Because I have none. And that little—ugh! That urge is really strong. And if I—what I’ve learned in therapy is if I’m not meeting it—[laughs humorlessly]—it’s bad. So I can’t do my stuff. I can’t, uh, sew or do little crafty things ‘cause my sewing space is now Stefan’s office. And… by the time I pull everything out, it’s a mess. And… like, sewing’s not, like, a neat project. Anyhoo. I started thinking about… mosaics. And I was like—I—there are two geniuses here. One, I was about to go on Amazon and order a shit-ton of tiles and stuff to make mosaics with. When I remembered in the garage, somebody had abandoned a ton of white bathroom tiles. And… I had done a project with kids, like, three years ago at Katy Belle’s school that involved alcohol ink, which you squirt onto tiles! So I’ve been making these tiles. And the kids enjoyed making the tiles, too. It really got super Zen for us. Then I take a hammer! And I smash that tile! In a Ziploc bag. Smash it, smash it, smash it. And I make my own mosaic pieces. And then I discovered it fills some weird puzzle-meets-quilting space! Where I just sit and I push the pieces around into different designs or different things. And then I—like, I don’t have anything to attach them with yet. Or any place to stick them. But I have found… such pleasure in just… moving ‘em around!
theresa
Yes. Finding the right spot for each one.
biz
Yeah! Yeah! I really… have—I’m like, I’m enjoying this.
theresa
That’s so good! I love it!
biz
Thank you! Thank you. Yeah.
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Hi! I’m calling with a genius. My five-year-old daughter loves coloring books. She could color in them for hours and hours. However, with us being locked down for months now, she’s been getting really tired of the same princesses; the same animals; the same TV show coloring books that she’s been using for months now. So I found a few coloring books that I received as gifts and have hardly touched. As well as a few packages of, like, hundred coloring pencils to go with them. And I let her have them! Uh, they’re very intricate designs. Mosaics. And she’s having a fantastic time and it’s keeping her from being bored. She has been using them for hours? And she asked, uh, before bed if she could use mama’s coloring books and mama’s pencil crayons again tomorrow. She loved it. And she felt it was such a treat. And so I thought that was a genius! It kept her occupied. I wasn’t using them anyway. And, um, she really, really seemed to enjoy it. Love you guys. Bye.
biz
I think that’s… genius? What do you mean, also, that you haven’t had time to do some independent coloring? [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] Dude, that’s so great. I… it’s great! I mean, that stuff just—it does! It piles up in our house. It sits around. Y’know. And… it is… like, a real genius when you discover that your kid wants to do a thing? That you just will never get to? Or do? You didn’t have to buy it. You didn’t have to, like, yeah! And it’s just—it’s just there. Good job remembering that something was there!
theresa
Good job. [Biz laughs.]
biz
Failures!
clip
[Dramatic orchestral music plays in the background.] Theresa: [In a voice akin to the Wicked Witch of the West] Fail. Fail. Fail. FAIL! [Timpani with foot pedal engaged for humorous effect.] Biz: [Calmly] You suck! [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective failures of the week.]
biz
Fail me, Theresa.
theresa
Okay. Some of you guys might remember… the saga of my Kindle, which I lost and then I got another one and then I lost it. Left it on the plane. There’s a whole thing. With me and my Kindle. Well. The saga continues! So. [Biz laughs.] Grace also has a kindle, which was gifted to us. And recently, she… lost her Kindle. [Laughs.] Um, somewhere in the house. Because we don’t go anywhere! So it’s somewhere in the house. But we can’t find it. Right? So I—very nicely—offered that she could use my Kindle until we find her Kindle. [Biz laughs.]
biz
Yes.
theresa
‘Cause you can—we’re on the same account. So you can, like, just switch over who’s using it? You know what I mean? Well so she lost my Kindle, too. So… she has since—this is all over the course of, like, weeks. But—so she has since found her Kindle.
biz
Hm. Will she share it with you? [Laughs.]
theresa
[Through laughter] Right. I know. So mine is still missing. So… nobody send us Kindles. Mine will show up. [Biz laughs.] I don’t need another Kindle. I’m not going to buy another Kindle. I’m so tired of this. I’m just going to read books. By dim light. [Biz laughs.] Very, very, dim nightlight in my kids’ room while I’m waiting for them to go to sleep. Until my Kindle shows up! Which it will! I just don’t know when that will be. Last time it was nine months later.
biz
Wow. I… can’t wait. [Theresa laughs.] To hear the next installment of the Kindle. You’re doing a horrible job with personal responsibility.
theresa
I know I am. [Biz laughs.]
biz
Alright. Again… quick One Bad Mother trivia—who doesn’t, uh, like, getting their hair wet? It’s Ellis! And so we—for a long time—eh, maybe would go like a week to two weeks of not… like, washing his hair. I am here to say that I washed his hair yesterday, and it—it may be the first—it’s definitely been longer than you’ve been missing from the show. [Theresa laughs.] It’s been… I—I am not sure we’ve washed it during the sheltering!
theresa
Ooooo!
biz
It has been… and he—
theresa
They can go a long time!
crosstalk
Theresa: They can. Yeah. Biz: You can go a long time.
biz
It actually had finally gotten to a [makes grossed-out noise] kind of stink—
crosstalk
Theresa: Yeah. You smell it. Yeah. Biz: Smell the boy.
biz
But of course, he had to have more hair cut off so that it would take less time… so now he almost has no hair.
theresa
Wow!
biz
We uncovered… amazing forever dirt that like—yeah! He’s got—he’s got dirt on his neck. [Theresa laughs.] We’ve been chipping away at. It’s been our quarantine project? Is like… chipping away at the dirt but like it freaks him out—
crosstalk
Theresa: Oh my god! Biz: —that people touching his neck?
biz
And so we just, like, with the second kid it was like, oh, do you have a sensory issue with that? Oh well! [Laughs.]
theresa
Yep.
biz
So like, it’s texturally different. Like, you can feel…
theresa
Oh my god.
biz
—the dirt. It doesn’t like, wipe away. So we found new that. So now he just has these patches. Like…
theresa
Oh my god.
biz
Like, vitiligo, which is what I have. But like, it’s dirt. So… we washed his hair.
theresa
Yeah.
biz
It’s just not even…
theresa
Yeah.
biz
It’s just bad parenting. [Theresa laughs.]
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Hi, Biz and Theresa! I have a little, uh, coffee-related fail. Thought Biz would appreciate this. I went to get myself a cup of coffee. It’s Sunday. It’s actually lunchtime so I’m kind of getting to it late. Had a difficult morning. And I got the grounds in the espresso maker and I cleaned out, y’know, I cleaned out the carafe ‘cause it hadn’t been cleaned out last time it was used. Realized I was low on decaf so I started grinding some and I put it together and I turned it on. And I ground up the decaf and I had to get milk and I was like, what is taking so long? Why—why am I not hearing anything from it? And I look over at it and I run back through my mind all the steps I took and I realized—I just never added water. I just never added water. I rinsed out the carafe and I stuck it underneath and I put in the coffee grounds and I turned it on. So [through laughter] luckily I realized it soon enough to not have damaged anything. [Biz laughs.] Now I have my coffee coming, but. Y’know. You guys are doing a great job. Sometimes I’m not. [Laughs.] Thanks, guys. Bye.
biz
Oh yeah. No water in the machine is a classic Biz.
theresa
Yeah! That is a classic Biz. Yeah.
biz
That’s… it’s a classic—I still catch myself almost pouring water in the grinder. None of that’s changed. That happens… weekly. Yeah! You’re doing a horrible job just, like, y’know. [Theresa laughs.] Life has steps. A lot of tasks are just like, I’ve gotta do A to do B to do C to do… whatever letter comes next. [Theresa laughs.] And—letters don’t matter anymore, guys! All we can do is play Switch and Zoom. So— [Laughs.] So, yeah! You can’t do tasks anymore.
theresa
No.
biz
Yeah. You’re just… you’re failing.
theresa
Yeah.
biz
You should tell everyone.
theresa
I wish you the best.
biz
Yeah! Good luck. [Theresa laughs.] Good… luck, madam. [Laughs.]
music
“Mom Song” by Adira Amram. Mellow piano music with lyrics. You are the greatest mom I’ve ever known. I love you, I love you. When I have a problem, I call you on the phone. I love you, I love you. [Music fades out.]
biz
Theresa. This week we are talking to Lydia Elle, who is a business consultant, speaker, author, and mom, who loves the cheesecake. [Laughs.] Just love that! Sorry. It’s true. The mathematician-musician discovered—as we all do—that the only formula that works in parenting is love. She has a robust ten-year-old daughter, London, who read one thousand books last year, then wrote a book about it: London and the 1,000 Books. Currently she has a course called “We Need to Talk: A Conversation on Parenting and Raising Children to be Anti-Racist.” You can find her course and more information about her at LydiaElle.com. [Singing] Welcome, Lydiaaaa! [Laughs.]
lydia elle
Hi, guys!
crosstalk
Theresa: Heyyyyy! [Laughs.] Lydia: Hi, hi, hi! Hello!
biz
Do you have—do you have cheesecake in your house right now? [Laughs.]
lydia
You know what? I’m trying to be good because I want to get down and stay down during the quarantine? I’ve like been grazing for, say, what feels like three months? [Biz laughs.] Nonstop? So. I only eat it when I’m outside.
biz
Oh! [Laughs.] Just outside cheesecake. I like this. This could be a— [Laughs.]
lydia
Yeah. So like, I have to go and buy it? And I only buy it in small portions, y’know. I’m trying to… yeah. Pace myself.
biz
I really like the idea of outside cheesecake. [Theresa laughs.] Um, before— [Lydia laughs.] —we get in to everything we wanna talk with you about today, please tell us—who lives in your house?
lydia
Well, it is me and mini! London. That’s it. Just the two of us. [Biz laughs.]
biz
I like that you—
lydia
I mean, she would like to have the pet gerbil from her classroom? [Biz laughs.] And she wants to get a dog. She’s looked it up already. But that’s probably not gonna happen.
biz
No. No quarantine gerbil? [Laughs.]
lydia
Mm. No. I feel like, y’know, there’s enough—there’s enough going on right now? To add the quarantine gerbil to that might be just a bit much.
biz
I gotta tell ya—ten. Robust. Those are two words that go well together. Katy Belle—my daughter—is ten. And robust.
lydia
Mmmm.
biz
And just… on the verge. Like a beautiful butterfly.
lydia
It’s right here! [Biz laughs.]
crosstalk
Biz: The verge! [Laughs.] Lydia: You see it!
lydia
You see it! There are days you say that and then there are days you say, “Don’t look into the light!” [Theresa laughs.]
biz
Yeah! Yeah. No!
lydia
Like, just stay with me. So I understand.
biz
Yeah. No. I—for sure there are days where I think it’s gonna be really cute? And then I—like, the reality hits me and I think, this is going to be awful. For, like… until she’s maybe 30. [Theresa laughs.] I don’t know. Like, what happens to our bodies over— [Lydia laughs.] —many years is really something special. Alright! [Laughs.] [Lydia laughs.] Not—not here to talk about puberty. So… with the work that you do, you talk with parents about wellness and parenting. So I kinda want to just start [through laughter] right away with that. Tell us a little bit about your wellness talks and what you focus on and… more importantly, is any of it working right now? [Laughs.]
lydia
I mean, so “working” is relative. Let’s just start there. So let me set the bar where it should be… at just general expectations. I think—for me—when I, um… when I had my daughter—as happens with so many moms—I—I—I was faced with what I call “momology.” Right? Which is, “You’re supposed to do this.” And “my daughter was doing this” and “my kid was walking at three days.” And… y’know, “my kid was talking eight languages at two months.” [Biz laughs.] And “you gotta make sure you do the formula every Tuesday and Friday at 6:00 ‘cause at 6:01 they’re gonna cry.” It’s like, it was all of this stuff! So I always felt like I wasn’t doing… the job well! And… I decided to… after kind of going through, y’know, a nuanced postpartum? So it was situational depression but it was overlaid with the fact that I’d just had a kid? That we need to really get in touch with the—the compassion that we have in this—that we need to have in this process. So the wellness is—I can only be the best mom if I am the best woman first. And that is what I’m trying to maintain— [Biz laughs.] —before—oh, yes. Yes. Go ahead.
biz
Sorry. I have my hand. I’m waving my hand.
lydia
Yeah. Go ahead.
biz
‘Cause maybe you have some insight into this. And I am always looking for help. Desperately. Uh— [Lydia laughs.]
lydia
Me, too.
biz
I— [Laughs.] I agree. And it’s taken us many years on this show to really… accept this notion of being a self, like, should really come first. I still haven’t figured out how to really make that happen consistently? Uh, and I—like—in all honesty. Like, not even as me joking. So… help? Me? [Laughs.]
lydia
So—I so—so— [Laughs.] From as early as I could, I taught my daughter, London, that she’s allowed to have “London moments.” Where she gets to say, “Hey.” Y’know. Whatever this thing is going on or even just randomly, like, “I just want to take a London moment.” She’ll go into her room but we—we have qualified it as that so now she understands when mommy needs a mommy moment.
biz
Ooh!
lydia
And so it’s literally a part of your self and your—your personhood. Like, this is your right. It is not your privilege. So it could be that we’re dealing with a situation and, y’know, it—we might even be not quite agreeing, as happens with, y’know, this time. But she’ll be like, “Mommy, I just—let me just have a London moment.” And she’ll go and think about it. Or I might be like, “You need to have a London moment or mommy needs to have a mommy moment.” And so there’s no more indictment of this false guilt. [Biz laughs.] Where I just—I’ll just be, like—sometimes I’ll give her dinner? And I just wanna go in the room and just, like, eat quietly! And so I don’t feel bad that I didn’t eat with my kid every single day. Because she is everything that I had been putting into her, up until that point? I trust it’s enough to keep her going. At least until I get out of the bedroom for me to eat dinner. Like, if I haven’t done that? Then… there’s a whole lot of other things that we gotta worry about. So that ties with compassion with yourself, um, is something that really became a priority to me because I was raising a daughter. And so I didn’t want her to be grappling with all of these things later on in life, when I can just tell her now, “You are allowed to be first!” So the only way I get to really show her is to try and fumble and do it myself. I think she’s doing a much better job than me? But— [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.]
biz
I think the deal is, is that that is actually a very small, simple act. This idea of saying… how do we help you? Like, the kids. Right? How do we help you when you’re in trouble or you need space or you’re upset? And then now—when I need space and I’m upset, how can you guys help me?
lydia
Mm-hm.
biz
I haven’t gotten to that at all? [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] But it’s floating around back there as something that really needs to become… like, habit.
lydia
I mean, a part of the—so my math brain—one of the classes that I had to take was probability. Right? Which is—and there’s a thing called combinatoric where it’s like, all of the different ways that you can make a combination of a group of items. SO when I think about every parent and child, right? The think that we’re doing is we are comparing that particular pair to all of the things that we’ve heard about before, but there has never been the pair that you have, right now, ever. Nor tomorrow is that pair gonna be exactly the same! So you’re always winging it! Because who you are today is not who you are tomorrow. So just on that premise alone, the pair of you and child is different! And so when you think about, hey, this is always gonna be a new adventure. Then you’re a lot more easy on yourself when things don’t quite work how you expected because you came up with this rule, but that was for older pair. Every day it’s a new pair of people. [Biz laughs.] And we’re just gonna figure it out.
biz
My head is exploding.
crosstalk
Theresa: This is really, really helpful. Biz: Like, this is—yeah! [Laughs.]
theresa
Like, this is a really helpful concept. I also took Probability, but it was, like, twenty years ago. [Biz laughs.] But this actually—like, I would never have thought to apply it to what—how you just described. And that is so helpful. I just love that. Thank you.
biz
That is—
lydia
Awesome!
biz
I’m like, literally, I’m like—
lydia
You’re welcome!
biz
—where is this parenting book on probability and other math applications to parenting? [Lydia laughs.]
biz
I’m gonna shift. I’m gonna shift.
lydia
Okay.
biz
I’m gonna shift this.
lydia
We’re gonna pivot. Mm-hm.
biz
We’re gonna pivot ‘cause we only have a little bit of time. So we’re gonna pivot. Lately, you have been— [Laughs.] Putting in the work. On the One Bad Mother Facebook group. Which… it’s—it’s remarkable and it is incredibly gracious of you. I find it… incredibly kind and… I am incredibly inspired by the community in general that we continue to try to figure this out. No one has ever said, “A really safe great place is a Facebook group.” [All laugh.]
lydia
Ever!
biz
Ever!
lydia
Ever. Ever.
biz
Ever! They are…
lydia
I agree.
biz
They are designed to not be good places to communicate. And… one of the things that you did was that you… a few weeks ago, after the murder of George Floyd, you posted, “What’s a question you would like to ask a Black mother?” [Laughs.] And! You got responses. You got… a lot. Tell us… why you decided to do that, and… what has been coming out of—of that?
lydia
The genesis of that began—as you stated—with the death of George Floyd. But the real sticking point was… that night that it happened, and, y’know, we’ve had multiple—multiple examples of the brutality that we see. But that night I posted, “Today it took everything in me not to cry. Not because I am afraid of becoming a hashtag? But I realize I don’t know how to teach my daughter to avoid it, either.”
biz
Yeah.
lydia
And so from there, that just… I—and I was afraid to post it! Honestly. ‘Cause I was like, I’m gonna get, y’know, what you might get. And I don’t feel like debating something that shouldn’t be politicized. Like, I just… I’m—I’m tired. And… it was a warm and an open community, but in that process I saw that equally there—there was equal confusion for those who wanted to be allies. SO here I am confused on how to survive this thing, and there’s a whole community of people that are like, hey, we want to support but we don’t know what that looks like. And so because there is the—the weight of fear and tension that kinda is that gap, I was like, let me figure out—similarly to how we do with parenting—how I can bridge it with compassion. So now I’m giving a place where it’s okay if you don’t understand? And yeah, I might get upset about a couple things? But I think when I see that I’m getting support from the group who isn’t for my demise? Then it’s easier to have that conversation. And so I was like, yeah, you can ask me questions! Like, let’s figure out—because that’s what we’re trying to do! We’re trying to figure this out. So if you can’t ask anybody questions, then, y’know, we’re at—I would say—a rebirth. So it would be the infantile stage of reconciliation. Like, we’re trying to now come together in such a deep and connected way that both sides need to really have a conversation. And an honest one!
biz
It’s not like you’ve just done one conversation in the group. You’ve had many.
lydia
Right.
biz
What have you just sort of… come away with?
lydia
So one of the things that—that kind of was birthed out of this was a new forum that I’m creating called “Supplies for Allies.” And basically what I have seen happen with all the questions and the different things is that people need a place to go to get the information from their perspective. So… it isn’t, y’know, people don’t wanna wear something that they may think is only representative for the Black community. But they want to show their support of the Black community. So that’s a different way of looking at this particular issue.
biz
That’s interesting, yeah.
lydia
So in terms of having the conversation, what I’ve learned is, like, you have to, one, be okay with being uncomfortable. [Biz laughs.] That’s the—like, the only way that we get to healing is through the tunnel of discomfort. And for so long, what we have pandered to is discomfort, which now equates to too many fatalities. Silence is the reason that people are dying. It is not confusion. It is not, y’know, even conflict. It is just silence. We had too many who were too quiet about something so important. And so now that I’m literally, y’know, with a foghorn, like, “Hey, we’re gonna talk about this.” Y’know, now it’s just a—it’s the sting of discomfort. And then people will be like, “Oh, okay. Well, let me ask this question.” And they see that I’m not, like, shouting and just, y’know, irate. Which! Which. Is understandable. ‘Cause I was talking with one group and I was like, “You gotta—you gotta see, again, to the infantile stage of this reconciliation. Like, there is a tantrum happening.” Because… so much stuff has been bottled up for so long—to your earlier point about not talking about it—that we’re not even sure what to say because everything was deemed, “You’re super angry.” Y’know, if we go to a corporate setting. You’re the angry Black^ [Heather note: Black “person” is implied by the modifier so I feel like it should be, but if I’m not supposed to capitalize it in this case let me know. Columbia Journalism Review says to capitalize it; the AP style book didn’t have a clear guideline] woman. The angry Black^—like, there was so much stigma surrounding the fact that every day we saw images that we could literally just copy and paste and put our face on. That it’s time, now, to understand that we don’t even know how to process that. When someone’s going through grief? Anything can happen! And we give so much compassion in that regard and so that needs time. So everybody might not be willing to have the conversation like me. But I’m willing to have it in the best way that I can, as often as I’m able to do it, and I think that starts—and so then there are other people who will be, like, well, I might answer this one question. You know what? That’s one less question. Because this is a boat. I only have an oar. One. There are so many people rowing; I get to rest sometimes and then I get to pick it back up. I’m just doing what I can!
biz
Well—again—thank you! [Laughs.] [Lydia laughs.] Yeah! I mean, I—I really… appreciate that you would be gracious enough to take the time that you have been taking. I now want to shift to the person that I know you’re—maybe it’s easier to talk to a bunch of crazy people online as opposed to your own child? Talking to your daughter about all of this? How—how are you? I’m asking you first—how are you? ‘Cause that’s—
lydia
How am I? [Laughs.]
biz
Yeah.
lydia
This is emotional exhaustion. We are weightlifting. And… I would say every Black person is now out of their weight class. No matter how much you think you have prepared; no matter how much you think you have seen; no matter how much you have gotten over; the real fact is we have to get through this. And it is an uphill climb. I think last weekend? I just kind of—now I take more breaks because there’s so many more images. There’s just—it just keeps—like, George Floyd was such a pivotal moment because of Ahmaud Arbery and now I don’t even know what hashtag we’re using. So… yeah! Some days I’m better than others. Um, I am hopeful because I meet such wonderful people who still want to have the discussion. And to your point about understanding that it is not the job of allies to do the work, I do agree? But my goal here isn’t a lesson. My goal is connection. And when I think about relationships? We have to have the conversation. Which is why I’m offering it in the—in the package that I do. Because that’s what I’m looking for. Like, I’m not looking for, y’know, white people or allies to now understand Black people. I want one person just to understand me! [Biz laughs.] And the only way that happens is if we have a conversation! So… yeah! I do it when I can and I don’t. So to my daughter, every person in this situation has to have what is called “The Talk.” It is optional for anybody outside of the Black community? But we have to have it. Where we have to teach our children what to do to stay alive. That probably was the hardest conversation I have had with her? Because whenever it is that you have it? You have now… ended a major part of their childhood. Because what I have to explain to her is—even though she is thinking as a ten-year-old, she will be judged as an adult. Even though she is playing as a ten-year-old, she could be handcuffed as an adult. And so it is literally survival tactics that I still don’t know that I have to have with my child. So I wanted to—to put that out there to make it understood that allies now need to feel this weight as well. So you might not need to have this conversation? But you need to know other kids have it. Like, it’s just a part of how we have to teach in this moment in history. But I believe with these conversations it will change.
biz
To me… it is a—it is part of our job as parents. I just wanna say, I—I see—I see you. That’s a really hard discussion? And… I see you. Having to give it. I wanna say thank you so much, Lydia, for joining us on the show. To talk about this. And I really liked how you talked about it being about connection and not a lesson, which shows you my personal— [through laughter] where my brain goes! Where my brain goes! And that’s—and I—
lydia
Right.
biz
But that’s a helpful way to think about it. That will hopefully allow me to have more conversations and not… schooling moments. Right? Yeah. That—that helps. So thank you for sharing that and especially the part about the probability. [Lydia laughs.]
lydia
You’re welcome!
biz
We’ll be looking for your book! Tell us a little bit about the series that you’ve been working on.
lydia
So the series is called “We Need to Talk”— [Biz laughs.] And it is basically, um… a jump-off from what I’m saying here. I tell the students, “I’m not offering any lists. There are no books. Like, we’re not doing any of that. Because there is a plethora of that out there already. What we’re gonna do is actually talk about it and then I leave them with—I guess what you can call “homework”—which is an action. Go and do some—like, we don’t need any more research!” [Biz laughs.] “What we need now is agents of change.” I don’t—I don’t need another five million books! Like, I don’t need that!
biz
What, you don’t need me to do some research to tell you that racism exists? [Laughs.]
lydia
No, I’m good! I’m good. Y’know?
crosstalk
Biz: You good? Are you good? Alright. I’ll—okay. [Laughs.] Lydia: I think—yeah. I think I got that covered. Um—
lydia
And so, y’know, one of the—the questions that, um, I asked this week—so it was supposed to be, “We Need to Talk,” and it’s how to help people—allies, specifically—talk to their connections. Which would be children first, then family, and then we’re gonna move to corporate. Since doing the series, we’re still at children. [Biz laughs.] So now I’m gonna have to do another series just on family and friends, and probably another one for corporate. But it’s about these conversations and really getting past… the idea that discomfort is bad. Like, we’re just gonna all have to be uncomfortable— [Biz laughs.] —and let’s just wade in it. Because we need this pool to dry up. And that means everybody has to get in. The more that people get in, the more it’s not gonna be as uncomfortable. Because we’re having the conversation!
biz
Lydia, thank you so much for joining us. And thank you for just all the… community and… uh, conversations you’ve been willing to have on our One Bad Mother Facebook group. And, uh, elsewhere out in the world. And we will link everybody up to… where they can find out about this series. You are doing a really good job and thank you.
lydia
Thank you guys! I really appreciate it. I feel like—one connection at a time—we’re gonna make this better.
biz
That’s right.
lydia
Thank you, ladies! [Biz laughs.]
biz
Bye!
music
“Telephone,” by “Awesome.” Down-tempo guitar and falsetto singing. Brainwaves send a message: Pick up the phone (When you, I call) Arm is moving now, no longer stone (When you, I call) Hand reaches out with a will of its own (When you, I call) [Music fades out.]
promo
Music: Gentle, upbeat piano music. Helen Hong: Hey, J. Keith. J. Keith van Straaten: Hey, Helen! I hear you have a true/false quiz you want me to finish! Helen: I do! Here we begin: We host a trivia gameshow podcast on the MaxFun network called... Go Fact Yourself! J. Keith: True! Helen: Correct! The show is all about celebrity guests answering trivia questions about things J. Keith enjoys. J. Keith: False. We sometimes don't talk about baseball or cats. Helen: Thank god. It's questions about things they enjoy! Next, we bring on surprise experts every episode. J. Keith: True! Helen: Correct! Final question: It's just the two of us sitting alone with these guests. J. Keith: False. Helen: Correct! We have a live audience at the Angel City Brewery! [Audience cheers and claps.] Helen: See? [A bell dings.] Helen: You can hear Go Fact Yourself every first and third Friday of the month, and if you don't listen, you can go fact yourself! J. Keith: True! [Music finishes.]
promo
Music: “War” by Norman Whitfield and Barrett Strong with lead vocals by Edwin Starr plays in the background. John Roderick: Friendly Fire is a podcast about war movies, but it’s so much more than that. Adam Pranica: It’s history! Speaker 1 (Film clip): Was just supposed to be another assignment. Ben Harrison: It’s comedy. Speaker 2 (Film clip): Under no circumstances are you to engage the enemy. Adam: It’s... cinema studies. Murdock (Rambo: First Blood Part II): That's a hell of a combination. John: So, subscribe and download Friendly Fire on your podcatcher of choice. Ben: Or at MaximumFun.org. Adam: And also, come see us at San Francisco Sketchfest on January 16th. Ben: You can get tickets at SFsketchfest.com. Speaker 3 (Film clip): [A strained whisper] Mission… accomplished. [Music fades out.]
biz
[Sighing] Oh! I just—I wanna hang out with Lydia more.
theresa
Yeah. I know.
biz
Wow. I am 100% serious. Where is this woman’s book?
crosstalk
Theresa: Oh, yeah! Oh, absolutely. Biz: I’m just gonna—I’m gonna—
biz
Yeah! I’m yelling that out there to the world, everybody. You can find out more about, uh, Lydia’s series on helping to raise our children to be anti-racist. Uh, at LydiaElle.com. We obviously are going to have that linked up in the show notes. Let’s listen… to a mom having a breakdown.
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Hi, Biz and Theresa and One Bad Mother. Um, this is a rant that might turn into a mom having a breakdown. We’ll see how I’m doing today. So I’m a psychiatrist and I’ve been, um, doing just, y’know, telehealth from home for a while. But I’m, uh, I’m due to get back to the, uh, the inpatient unit this weekend. As a matter of fact, I’m about to walk into the hospital. And it sucks. I’m—I have a four-year-old and a seven-year-old in my house? And they’re doing their best, but it’s really hard. And my husband’s doing his best, but it’s really hard. And we had to have a really hard discussion about whether or not we were gonna separate because I will see COVID delirium patients on the medical floor. I’m gonna be consulted with people who are having trouble with seeking decisions as to whether or not we activate their health care powers of attorney. And I just know that I’m gonna get exposed and I don’t wanna bring anything home to my family, but I also can’t imagine separating from them between now and December. It’s already gonna be really hard to just continue to totally isolate from everybody that’s not my family. Potentially ‘til 2021? So yeah! It’s pretty terrible. And this isn’t a rant against anybody. Like, my hospital’s doing a great job and my family’s doing a great job. And our schools are doing a great job in the midst of all this shit. But the virus is terrible. And… it’s making a lot of us have to make pretty terrible choices. Like deciding whether to separate from your family or possibly expose them to something dangerous. And I just don’t know… I don’t know if I’m making the right choice. So [tearfully]—oh, there’s the breakdown! Thanks for, um, keeping—keeping it very real on the podcast. It helps me be seen. It’s okay to not be okay right now. Um… you’re all doing a really good job. And so am I. It just feels like a fail. It feels like a fail with either choice right now. And… that just sucks. Keep up the good work.
biz
You are doing… such a remarkable job. First off, thank you for being an essential worker. And doing the work that you do. And—
theresa
Yes. Thank you.
biz
And thank you for calling in and sharing your experience because we’ve got to remember that when we say how grateful we are for essential workers, we are not being flippant with that. There—you are making tremendous sacrifices, whether you are working in a hospital or whether you are working at the grocery store. That is a tremendous sacrifice. And having to have a conversation with your partner, uh, about… separating or coming home every day from the hospital—that is—of course it’s a breakdown! [Laughs.]
theresa
Yeah.
biz
You are doing… a remarkable job. Theresa? What did we learn today? We learned that human touch is unbearable from our loved ones. [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] No. I don’t know. We learned that, yeah—you—[makes “blargl’ noise]. Yes. A lot of kids are going through some regressions right now. Whether it’s touching; whether your ten-year-old is suddenly crawling in your bed needing to sleep with you every night and carrying their stuffy around? I’ve heard all the things, guys. Like… kids process this stuff in different ways. We understand it. I think the theme that seems to have been running through this episode, though? Is… as the parents, like… having to come up with more to help everyone around us is so much! It’s a lot! It’s more than we’re used to, and everybody was already giving a lot. Right? Like… and replenishing that, somehow? Is even more important and yet strangely feels more unattainable. And I—I… it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t continue to try for it. Even the smallest actions—like when we were talking to Lydia—even the smallest actions can sometimes have a larger effect when it comes to boundaries for ourselves. I also feel this show is just such a classic example of… we have no idea what anybody is dealing with on top of everything we know we’re all dealing with. Right? Like… when you see someone on the street; when you are talking to your coworker or a teacher who is Zooming with your kids or… any of it. We have no idea what’s happening when they are off of that interaction with you. If I saw you on the street, madam who called, I would not know you were an essential worker if you were just in your clothes. I would not know that you had just had to have that conversation with your partner. And that every day you were walking around with this added weight, of like, is this the right choice? And so if you don’t wanna smile at me and say “Hi!” when I’m in a chatty mood—fine! [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] It’s okay! Everybody? You’re doing a remarkable job in un—, like, in even more remarkable… circumstances. And… we see you. And… let’s try to see the things we can’t see? If that doesn’t sound like a weird thing? Um—
theresa
Yeah! Let’s—yeah. Let’s—let’s be all-knowing.
biz
Let’s try and be omnipresent!
crosstalk
Theresa: Yeah. Like, let’s—let’s know that there’s more. Biz: As we go out. [Laughs.]
theresa
Always. Let’s know that there’s more.
biz
Yeah! Yes! [Laughs.] Just start from that. Start from—
theresa
Whatever I’m seeing, I know there’s more.
crosstalk
Biz: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Theresa: Yeah. Yeah.
biz
That would be… that is such a great place to start, guys! Let’s do that! But who do I see? I never leave the house. [Laughs.]
theresa
That’s right. Good point. When you see someone on Zoom, know that there’s more. [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.]
biz
Everybody, you’re doing a remarkable job. Uh, Theresa? I get to say this to you in person this week, as opposed to putting it out in the void like I normally do. You are doing a remarkable job. I see you. I wish there was just anything I could do. To help.
theresa
Oh, thank you, Biz.
crosstalk
Biz: I mean, I—okay. Theresa: You do help.
theresa
You help just by being my friend.
biz
Well, I—in the words of Spock— [Theresa laughs.] —“I have been, and always shall be, your friend.” [Theresa laughs.]
theresa
Biz, you’re also doing a very good job.
biz
Thank you. Oh, what time is it? Almost four? [Theresa laughs.] It’s almost time for my daily cry! Guys? Somebody’s gonna talk to you next week! [Laughs.]
crosstalk
Biz and Theresa: Byeeee!
music
“Mama Blues” by Cornbread Ted and the Butterbeans. Strumming acoustic guitar with harmonica and lyrics. _I got the lowdown momma blues_ Got the lowdown momma blues Gots the lowdown momma blues The lowdown momma blues Gots the lowdown momma blues Got the lowdown momma blues You know that’s right [Music fades somewhat, plays in background of dialogue.]
biz
We’d like to thank MaxFun; our producer, Hannah Smith; our husbands, Stefan Lawrence and Jesse Thorn; our perfect children, who provide us with inspiration to say all these horrible things; and of course, you, our listeners. To find out more about the songs you heard on today’s podcast and more about the show, please go to MaximumFun.org/onebadmother. For information about live shows, our book and press, please check out OneBadMotherPodcast.com.
theresa
One Bad Mother is a member of the Maximum Fun family of podcasts. To support the show go to MaximumFun.org/donate. [Music continues for a while before fading out.]
speaker 2
Comedy and culture.
speaker 3
Artist owned—
speaker 4
—Audience supported.
About the show
One Bad Mother is a comedy podcast hosted by Biz Ellis about motherhood and how unnatural it sometimes is. We aren’t all magical vessels!
Join us every week as we deal with the thrills and embarrassments of motherhood and strive for less judging and more laughing.
Call in your geniuses and fails: 206-350-9485. For booking and guest ideas, please email onebadmother@maximumfun.org. To keep up with One Bad Mother on social media, follow @onebadmothers on Twitter and Instagram.
Get in touch with the show
onebadmother@maximumfun.org
@OneBadMothers
@onebadmothers
How to listen
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