Transcript
biz ellis
Hi. I’m Biz.
theresa thorn
And I’m Theresa.
biz
Due to the pandemic, we bring you One Bad Mother straight from our homes—including such interruptions as: children! Animal noises! And more! So let’s all get a little closer while we have to be so far apart. And remember—we are doing a good job.
music
“Summoning the Rawk” by Kevin MacLeod. Driving electric guitar and heavy drums. [Continues through dialogue.]
biz
This week on One Bad Mother—I tried so hard today. Plus, Biz wears an Ellis suit; Theresa is back again; and we talk to Angela Siefer about digital inclusion.
crosstalk
Biz and Theresa: Wooooo! [Decreasing in pitch and ending in sync.] [Biz laughs.] [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective weeks.]
theresa
Oh no! You started out with a hysterical laugh! Oh no! [Laughs.] Biz!
biz
Yeah. Uh! Uh! Uh! Uh. [Theresa laughs.] Before— [Laughs.] Welcome to One Bad Mother, a podcast in which we just slowly listen to the mental demise— [Theresa laughs.] —of its hosts. Before we get started and I get—
theresa
It’s really a documentary series. [Biz laughs.] Watching the slow crumbling of our mental health.
biz
That’s right. No one’s pretending here! [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] We are the opposite of a “I’m doing great” Facebook post.
theresa
Yes.
biz
One Bad Mother: the opposite— [Laughs.] Of an “I’m doing great” Facebook post is definitely our new promo. Somebody write that down. Alright. [Deep breath.] Before I get giddy with excitement that I am looking at Theresa’s beautiful face over the Zoom, we wanna take a minute to do what we have been doing, which is just saying thank you. To everybody. In existence. I mean… for real? Thank you to everybody who is… what we call an essential worker. Thank you to everybody who previously might not have been considered [through laughter] an essential worker? But hey! No shit you’re an essential worker. And… thank you to everybody. Y’know. Figuring out their personal risk assessment but remembering that you’re taking care of others. Yeah! You guys are doing such a great job and, uh, we really… appreciate it. So thank you. You’re doing… a really good job.
theresa
Yeah. You are.
biz
Yeah! Theresa? God! I miss you. How are you?
theresa
I… miss you, too, Biz. [Biz laughs.] One of these days I’m going to drive over to your house and somehow safely give you a bag of glue sticks. That will work with your glue gun but don’t work with our glue gun.
biz
I—and I will wait eagerly for that day to pass! [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.]
theresa
Yeah. So I’m back. Um, and as you mentioned last week, I was just really busy with family stuff. The past couple of weeks. We continued to have a really hard time with our kids right now, especially one of our kids who’s just having a really hard time. And—on top of that—Jesse’s dad was going into hospice last week. So Jesse actually drove to San Francisco to help his dad go into hospice! Um, which was a really hard thing. So he’s back and, y’know, things continue forward and I’m really, really glad to be here right now. And— [Biz laughs.] —I just wanted to share— [Laughs.] A really odd tidbit from my life. [Biz laughs.] Which is something that happened a few weeks ago which was that our three-year-old, Curtis, who has some interesting speech issues, he was trying to ask for his baby doll’s pacifier.
biz
‘K?
theresa
But instead, he couldn’t remember the word for pacifier. And so what he was saying was—[imitating toddler voice] can I have my baby’s ittle… cowonaviwus—ittle cowonaviwus— [Biz laughs.] He was mixing up the word “coronavirus” and the word “pacifier.” [Laughs.]
biz
Is it—is it like—
theresa
Somehow.
biz
Is it like the Smurfs now? Is that how we live? Where every other word in—is— [Theresa laughs.] —we just replace with “coronavirus”?
theresa
I guess! I guess.
biz
Have a coronavirus day, Papa Coronavirus! [Laughs.]
theresa
That must be what it’s like for him. Somehow.
biz
I bet it is! I bet it is.
theresa
Um, so interesting receptive language development there. With Curtis.
biz
That’s interesting. Did you immediately wipe that baby doll down? [Both laugh.]
theresa
Yeah. Anyway. I don’t have a lot more than that. I’m excited to be here. I’m really happy to see your face, Biz. How are you doing?
biz
Well… I’m tired. I was thinking about this the other day, that I was like—oh my god. Every sh—it was kind of—it was kind of funny, maybe, like, before the ti—in the time before the COVID, though—we would come on and talk about how tired we were as parents. And then now I was like, is this a fun show? Is it okay if like… ‘cause, y’know, we believe in being as honest as possible! And not being, like, I’m great. ‘Cause that’s—that is not true. I’m totally, like… fine sometimes. And other times I’m not! Uh… so I don’t know! You guys will be the judge of if this show’s still amusing or super depressing. That said, I’m fucking tired. Um— [Laughs.] Just blurry-eyed tired. And I—do you remember when we had that question, “Did you ever think you could get more tired?” a couple weeks back? Well, uh, let’s replace “tired” with “Ellis.” And my question is now “Did I ever think Ellis could try and be on me physically more than previously.” The answer is yes. He can be. I’m not even sure sometimes he realizes that he’s just, like… two-hand gripping my arm or leg? And it’s like… I—like—this weekend, for—at the beginning of this, the weekend Stefan could kind of like, y’know, suggest—we’ll build Legos! Or we’ll do something. And he would go do it. But now we’ve totally stepped away from that. Now he doesn’t wanna do anything with Stefan. At all. And Stefan’s trying. This is— [Laughs.] He’s doing a good job. Really trying. But it’s—like, it’s his school learning. He just is sitting on me the entire time. If I wanna go get in the shower every morning—every morning, the routine is exact. We have breakfast. Then I go get in the shower. This is an issue every morning. Right? I’m gonna go on a walk. It’s an issue. And I—guys—I am so aware of… like… many of the causes of this? Right? Like, I, y’know, it’s the old—yeah! Yeah! We’re regressing. We’re home. We’re not having the opportunities to push these boundaries. There’s fear there because of the uncert—
theresa
Yeah! He’s scared—
crosstalk
Theresa: And you’re his safety person. Yeah! Biz: He’s scared.
biz
Right. And I was always the—the regulator? The emotional regulator? Instead of a pacifier. But from this purely selfish perspective, I’d worked so hard over these past couple of years. And… we’d gotten to such a good place of separation. And… boundaries. And… limits. And… not only do they feel all gone, they feel like deeper. Like—like—they didn’t just—they didn’t just go outside. [Laughs.] Like, all of those boundaries that I don’t have anymore. They went outside and then buried themselves six feet deep. Like, that’s where it feels I’ve gotta get them back. And that’s—I mean, that’s it. I have no real solutions? It’s just the way it is in our house right now? Among… many other things that are happening in our house. It makes it very difficult to get through, uh, the day. As a self. Or as a parent. [Laughs.] Which may or may not tie in nicely to what we’re gonna talk about today, which is—I tried so hard today.
promo
Banjo strums; cheerful banjo music continues through dialogue.
theresa
Please—take a moment to remember: If you’re friends of the hosts of One Bad Mother, you should assume that when we talk about other moms, we’re talking about you.
biz
If you are married to the host of One Bad Mother, we definitely are talking about you.
theresa
Nothing we say constitutes professional parenting advice.
biz
Biz and Theresa’s children are brilliant, lovely, and exceedingly extraordinary.
theresa
Nothing said on this podcast about them implies otherwise. [Banjo music fades out.] [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss the weekly topic.]
biz
[Laughs.] Theresa. We had… a rant recently. And one of the things this mom having a breakdown said that stood out more than anything else to me, was when she said—I tried so hard today. And that? Like, that… just… got me. In my core. And I thought, this is… yeah! This is—let’s talk about that.
theresa
Yes.
biz
Because it’s not about “I tried so hard over the course of this week”? Or the course of this year? There’s no long game involved in a statement like that? I tried so hard… today.
theresa
Yeah.
biz
And I think about, like… all the things—blah, blah, blah. Take it day by day. Every little day is its own day. Right? Like [through laughter] all these things. And yet… [Theresa laughs.] And yet.
crosstalk
Theresa: You’re like, looking up to the heavens for answers right now. [Laughs.] Biz: Do you like that? I am! I am!
biz
I’m looking at—I’m looking up to the heavens because I—I—I’m trying to hard just to even come up with words today.
theresa
Uh-huh.
biz
Where does that leave you? Like, how does—“I tried so hard today.” What does that bring up for you?
theresa
[Sighs.] I mean, it’s a lot of different things. I think the—I think the biggest, like, route of this? Is… sort of how we, like, are trained from a young age to see results of our hard work? In, like, more quickly. So like especially, y’know, as kids going to school. Y’know? You practice and you learn something and you do your work and you get a good grade. You, y’know, you listen and you pay attention and then you get your homework done and then you’re done! And you get free time! Um, or you wanna learn to ride a bike and you work really—you decide to do it and you work really hard— [Biz laughs.] —and then you do it and then yay! You’re riding a bike! [Biz laughs.] It takes some getting used to in parenting that parenting is not remotely like that. Like, parenting just isn’t like that. Like… well, let me put it this way. It’s not that way for me. [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.] Because I definitely… like, I’ve definitely heard people say, like, yeah! You just—you give it your all and then when they turn 18 you find out if you did a good job or not! Like— [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.]
biz
I love that one! [Laughs.]
theresa
Like, that idea of like, you just try and then see if you did good.
biz
Right. [Laughs.]
theresa
So… that’s not—that’s not my experience? But… but I think on a day-to-day basis, like… because we can—because it’s so hard to think about the end game or like who our kids are gonna be or like… all that stuff, it actually makes a lot more sense to just focus on—this is what I can do now. I can be here now. I can be positive today. I can come up with a plan. But like, what’s in my control to like do well today? And like… the weird thing is about parenting is that even if we show up like that, and we do a good job, we may not feel that reflected back at us in that way. That day.
biz
Yes.
theresa
Like, it doesn’t… it’s not a—we’re not gonna just—because we’re ready to be present and— [Biz laughs.] —have plans and be friendly with people and helpful—like, because—just because we’re ready to do that and we’re offering that? We don’t necessarily get that back today.
biz
No. That’s—
theresa
And that’s so—it’s so much—it’s so hard and it’s so much energy.
biz
Yes. You said two things that made me go—one was the control. Right? Like, there’s very little we have that we can control, so, y’know, let’s—I know I can take care of this one day. What that—and that’s a message I think that’s given to us a lot? Right? But what’s not included in that message is that whoever also’s involved in your day? You have no control over. But then go back to the earlier thing you were saying about sort of how we’re raised with result-oriented motivation. We are told as parents by advertising and movies and magazines and blog posts and articles and blah, blah, blah, blah and Facebook posts that we are gonna see those results right away. Right? That if we make slime with our children, it’s gonna be a great time. This is a memory-maker.
theresa
It’s gonna be so fun. Yeah.
biz
It’s gonna be fun. They’re gonna be patient. [Laughs.] You know what it is? 90% of the garbage that you’re supposed to like make with your kid—like science projects or any of these fucking projects—do you know what children want? They want it right then! They want the moment you say “slime” to have you pour slime in their hands. They don’t really want to—not all—somebody does. My children do not want to wait and mix and then wait another five minutes or stir or—
theresa
How about clearing a space? Gathering materials?
crosstalk
Biz: Yeah! They absolutely—yeah! Theresa: Like, all of that stuff.
biz
Again, and the cleaning it up! How about cleaning it up?
crosstalk
Biz: Where does—yeah! Nope! No. Yeah! Nope. No. Just—when it’s done. Yeah. Yeah. [Laughs.] Theresa: Hey, guys, let’s make a list of what we need! Let’s—no! Why don’t—how about you just tell me when it’s actually—I don’t really like this. I don’t wanna—yeah.
biz
Yes! And that— [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] And that’s the punch in the teeth that, like, really… leaves you with that feeling of—I tried so hard today. I’m supposed to have beautiful pictures of my success to post on Instagram. Right? Like— [Theresa laughs.] They look like they’re having so much fun in Parent magazine. [Laughs.]
theresa
But even if you’re not—like—but even if you’re someone who is not fixated on that like external… like, what it looks like? We want… to… feel… that our efforts were for something good. Like, that all of that was worth it.
biz
Yeah! But it’s—and it’s not just the activities, now that I’m thinking about it. I’m thinking about, like… the emotional, like—I tried so hard today. You know what? I know that my children are stressed out. I’m gonna try so hard today to—to be really sensitive to how I treat them. To be respectful. To talk to them like I wanna be talked to. To, like, make sure their environment is one in which it—even if it’s selfish! Even if it’s like, if I don’t do A, B, and C, then they’re not gonna do D back at me. Right? Like, I’m gonna… I—it—like, even… when you do the emotional slime— [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] Your emotional slime setup, they—they still might say, I don’t wanna do that. Right? Like, it—
theresa
Yeah! Or—or it just doesn’t—it just like one day doesn’t have the impact. ‘Cause they’re just in a bad mood that day or something. But also, this works for almost anything we put our energy into with our kids. So like any time there’s a problem and we decide, I know how I can fix this! [Biz laughs.] And we devote time and energy—or just we raise our expectations! Like, this is gonna be genius. This is gonna… [Biz laughs.] This is gonna be really cool.
crosstalk
Theresa: Oh man. Wait ‘til you see this. Biz: Game changer. Game changer. [Laughs.]
theresa
Yeah. This is gonna be so good. And the letdown of… it either… failing horribly, or—almost equally as bad—is it just isn’t… quite… the thing. Or that’s not quite what the problem was. Or… it worked for a day but after that, that was the only time it worked. It never worked again. Like… trying is so hard! [Laughs.] Like, trying— [Biz laughs.] Trying is so hard! Like, I… the last few days here, I feel like… I’m so entrenched in the most… baseline… I’m not gonna scream. And people will stay safe. Like, literally— [Biz laughs.] I’m not gonna scream—like, literally that’s my bar!
crosstalk
Biz: That’s a great bar. Theresa: I’m not trying—
biz
I know you’re not trying to be funny. I think that is a fucking great bar.
theresa
Okay.
biz
I mean it. No, I really—I’m like—
theresa
And so—but that’s the only way that—and it’s a lot of work! Honestly. To do those things right now. Other times in my life, those things would not be as hard. But right now they just are because of what’s going on with people in our house. But… the only way for me to not have this emotional crash? From all the trying? Is really... to keep it at the literal bare-bones minimum of what can be done in a day. So I just know… that me trying to come up with a cool activity— [Biz laughs.] —or trying to—y’know, trying to—trying to fix something big. Is just not—it’s not in the cards right now. Like—
biz
I wanna explain my reaction to your two baseline things. Uh, not screaming. Not yelling at them or yelling in general. Uh, and keeping them safe. Those… are so hard.
theresa
Yeah!
biz
I mean, that’s—like—I think—I think—I wanna… just acknowledge that… I tried so hard today and I—this is, I think what you were saying. Is that it’s not about the projects. It’s about… the emotional, like… exhaustion? That comes from… what should be a simple task. Right? I mean, again—even under the best of circumstances, we’ve spent six years under the best of circumstances struggling! And now we’re in a situation where we do not have the resources that would’ve been helpful to us. A grandparent. A trip. A park. A playground. Right? Like, these things that—friends! [Laughs.] Friends! [Laughs.] Physically… seeing friends. Those things aren’t here and so… even something like… keeping them safe is… that’s like, deeply exhausting. Right? Like, that—it’s deeply exhausting. And I think—I think about that mom who called and I think about her talking about, like, just the day of activities she had had planned?
theresa
Yes! Everything she did!
biz
Everything she did and kids that are yelling at her and all that. But what we’re not acknowledging is the tired we just talked about. It’s, y’know, all the like—slimes and all the, like, we’re gonna do the Zoom class on learning this way today. And like— [Laughs.] Like, and they’re gonna kick me in the knee when I give them, y’know—I’m gonna go play badminton for hours. Yes! I’m ready to be that mom! Right? [Laughs.] Like—that is like… I don’t—I don’t even wanna use a cake metaphor ‘cause that’s too good for what this is. It’s—it’s like such a thin… skin around… what we’re not acknowledging. Which is—this deeper trying hard.
theresa
Yes. Yeah. And how depleted we are going into it. And I think what—what you’re saying there reminds me of the part of this that we’re not talking about, which is… how natural and intense the desire for things to be good and fun! Is. Like… why is that so wrong? [Laughs.] Like— [Biz laughs.] The whole—all of this is literally coming out of us trying to… be good parents. And have a good time with our kids. [Biz laughs.] And like… have them learn and grow and like… be good people! Like, what’s—it feels so, like… it feels so unfair.
crosstalk
Theresa: That those desires? Biz: It’s like a— [Laughs.]
theresa
Are, like, unreasonable somehow. And that we’re being like—it feels like we’re being, like, shot down. Like, you wanted too much, ladies. [Biz laughs.] You wanted the world.
crosstalk
Theresa: You wanted your cake and eat it, too. [Laughs.] Biz: You’re—clearly! [Laughs.]
biz
Well, so I’m gonna go google how to make it even more fun. At which point— [Theresa laughs.] —I will be told I’m not trying hard enough. I didn’t have enough balloons. I didn’t have enough slime. Right? I didn’t have… y’know… I—I didn’t get up at 4AM to make sure that the day was all set up to go.
theresa
Well did you prepare them for it? Did you talk to them—like—
crosstalk
Theresa: Did they want to make slime? Does any of them have, like, a tactile aversion? Biz: I didn’t spend two weeks preparing…
theresa
Maybe it’s not comfortable for them! I mean—
biz
I just thought we could have fun.
theresa
Yeah. [Laughs.]
biz
But we can’t.
theresa
How dare you!
biz
I know. I believe we’ve said it before—this [through laughter] is supposed to be fun. But you’re right! Like, that’s the real kick in the pants is that, y’know, sure. For some there’s a purely selfish motivation. [Laughs.] Don’t get me wrong. I—every once in a while I enjoy a good, like, look at how great I just did a thing! Right? But… for the most part, we are coming from a place of really just wanting good. And fun. For our kids. And… when they yell at us or like… scream at us that they don’t wanna do it. Or they say—this is dumb. Or… they don’t—they don’t wanna do like half the shit that needs to be done to do it. Right? You’re just like… fuck. Fuck! Fu—it makes you wanna do, like, fine. We’ll do nothing fun ever again. How does that sound?
theresa
I’ll just sit here.
biz
I’m gonna—yeah. I’m… gonna sit here. [Theresa laughs.] And—should I talk to you like you’re talking to me? [Theresa laughs.] Would you like that? How would that make you feel? Bad. So stop talking to me like that. [Laughs.]
theresa
Side note: how do you think you would feel if your kids talked to you the way you just, like, pretended to talk to your kid? [Laughs.]
biz
Oh, yeah. They don’t like it. [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] Do you know how I know? ‘Cause I’ve done it. [Laughs.] Y’know? Like… today we were outside. It was raining. It was very exciting. And we ventured out to the curb where the current was very strong. And we took some leaves to race them. And my leaf got stuck. Hahahahahaha! His leaf made it all the way to the end of the block. Very exciting. Let’s go back and do it again. Okay. His leaf… gets stuck. Mine makes—starts going. He steps into the curb and begins to stomp repeatedly on my leaf.
theresa
Yeah.
biz
How do you think that made me feel? [Laughs.] I was like… I—that’s not… it’s not okay for you to do that. [Theresa laughs.] Right? Like, not even a little.
theresa
Mm-hm.
biz
Right? Like—I mean—I think that’s also part of the, like… part of this equation. Is the like… when they react? In a way that is not the reaction you were hoping for. Right? When the outcome is not fun. [Laughs.] That… that really hurts! Like, it hurts!
theresa
It hurts. Yeah.
biz
Because you are trying hard! I’m trying hard! I don’t want to be out here in this rain! I don’t wanna be, like… I mean, part of me does. Yes. But the other part doesn’t. ‘Cause I’m tired. Right? Like… but I’m here! And I’m trying. To make this fun.
crosstalk
Biz: And this isn’t even, like a— Theresa: Right! And then some part of you—
theresa
—is like, we’ll do a rain walk and that’ll be cool!
crosstalk
Biz: Yeah. You wanna go out in the rain? Instead of saying no, I’ll say yes. Theresa: Like, that’ll be great!
biz
You know what I mean? Like, that’s not even a planned “I’m trying to make slime.” Poor slime is getting the shit end of the stick in this conversation. But like… this is just a—we’re here! We’re in the moment! And I’m gonna dig and I’m gonna try. And then… even that gets met with something that is unpleasant and hurts my feelings. And it’s like… why… does being the—get ready—why does being a parent have to be [through laughter] such a hard fucking job? [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] [Biz sighs.]
music
“Ones and Zeroes” by “Awesome.” Steady, driving electric guitar with drum and woodwinds. [Music fades out.]
music
Laid-back acoustic guitar music plays in background.
theresa
One Bad Mother is supported in part by Best Fiends. If you’re looking for a fun way to pass the time while engaging your brain and enjoying breathtaking visuals and a gripping story, your answer is Best Fiends.
biz
Momma needs some alone time, guys. [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] And I have been enjoying Best Fiends so much. It’s very… relaxing? Almost meditative? Uh, to play. And just using my hands. The bugs are so cute. It’s like the perfect game to play while I’m hiding in the bathroom. It’s just a lot of fun? It doesn’t need the internet to play. So hello, endless hours on a napping drive while you’re parked in a parking lot! [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] Say hello to your Best Fiends!
theresa
Engage your brain with fun puzzles and collect tons of cute characters. Trust me—with over a hundred million downloads, this five-star-rated mobile puzzle game is a must-play. Download Best Fiends free on the Apple App Store or Google Play. That’s “friends” without the “r.” Best Fiends. [Music finishes.]
theresa
Hey, you know what it’s time for! This week’s genius and fails! This is the part of the show where we share our genius moment of the week, as well as our failures, and feel better about ourselves by hearing yours. You can share some of your own by calling 206-350-9485. That’s 206-350-9485.
biz
Genius fail time, Theresa. Genius me.
clip
[Dramatic, swelling music in background.] Biz: Wow! Oh my God! Oh my God! I saw what you did! Oh my God! I’m paying attention! Wow! You, mom, are a genius. Oh my God, that’s fucking genius! [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective genius moments of the week.]
theresa
Okay. So… we are going through something similar with Oscar to what you described going through with Ellis. Where he’s just like way more attached to me than before. Like, he was already really attached? Now he’s even more attached. And so I haven’t done the show for two weeks and so I haven’t been apart from him during the day! Like, at all! And so today, when it—when it was gonna be time for me to go do the show and for him to just be not anywhere near me for a couple hours, he was really distressed. Like, genuinely… distressed. And I was glad that I brought it up in advance. Like, I didn’t bring it up right at the last minute. [Biz laughs.] I brought it up at a time where we could actually like talk about it. And, y’know, he cried a little bit and we talked about it and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I expressed some curiosity as to how it’s interesting that, y’know, months ago, y’know, we’d be apart for eight hours in the day sometimes— [Biz laughs.] —and we were really used to that and now it does feel like—two hours feels like a really long time now! Like, isn’t that interesting! And he kind of was willing to go with that.
biz
Oh!
theresa
Um, so it softened him a little bit? Y’know? To think about that? But he wasn’t all the way there and so we still had a few more times of him just basically like clinging to me. And then I realized… y’know… he’s gonna be with Jesse taking Curtis for the napping drive and so he’ll be on his iPad. And I said, why don’t I record a video of myself on your iPad so that while you’re on the napping drive if you miss me you can just look at the video of me telling you that I love you and I’ll be seeing you really soon. And he’s like, yeah, mom. I think—I think I’m ready. I think I’m ready. [Biz laughs.] And so then he—he did the recording of me giving him that nice message. And it was smooth sailing after that. So.
crosstalk
Theresa: That worked. Biz: Good.
biz
Good job!
theresa
Thank you.
biz
That is a really good job.
theresa
Thanks.
biz
Okay. Some of you may remember a different time before corona, uh, when I was on a little game show called “Let’s Make a Deal.” [Laughs.] Where I won two completely absurd and intense e-bikes. I mean, like, these bicycles that are electric—meaning— [Theresa laughs.] —you can actually pedal them or you can pedal for like a second and then vroom, vroom, vroom! You’re off! With tires that are—I mean, it looks like… I’m supposed to be like mountain biking. Or like—they are—this is not—
theresa
Like, trail biking. Yeah.
biz
Like, mega—I mean, it looks a little silly to ride them on the street. [Laughs.] So they have been sitting around. With life as it is right now, our street gets a lot less traffic. And we decided—with, uh, the help of my folks—to get the kids their own bicycles. ‘Cause we have not had bicycles for them since they were very little. And… we have all been getting on bicycles. Fun fact: I did not exactly remember how to ride a bicycle. Second fun fact: 46-year-old women falling off of their bikes— [Theresa laughs.] —into the neighbor’s front yard? Is—is something! [Theresa makes sympathetic “aww.”] But like the thing is is that the kids in particular are really enjoying it? And Katy Belle, who has been struggling a little bit—being home all the time—has—she—in five days she was riding that bike. No training wheels. No nothing. It is a beautiful bike. And she is off. She’s off.
crosstalk
Theresa: That’s amazing. That’s so great. Biz: Right? Like, it’s a real joy for her. And to me?
biz
I just was like… look at us! We’re all on bikes!
theresa
That’s so good. Good job.
biz
Thank you.
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Hi, One Bad Mother! I am calling with a genius and I couldn’t be more proud of myself. I have all these leftover breastmilk bags from when I was breastfeeding and freezing, and sometimes if I open a bottle of red wine and I don’t like it that much, I freeze it to cook with later. And I had nothing to put it in the freezer. I put it in breastmilk bags. It’s made for liquid anyway! I feel like a fucking genius. Have a good day.
biz
Yeah!
theresa
Yeah!
biz
You’re so good! [Laughs.]
theresa
Okay!
biz
[Through laughter] This is just like—
theresa
I’m in!
biz
I’m in, too. I am in. That is— [Theresa laughs.] —a genius way to store cooking wine. [Theresa laughs.] Like, A, I love this because she was like—that wine tasted like shit and I didn’t just pour it down the drain. You saved it for cooking, which is so good.
theresa
It’s so smart!
biz
And—ahh! You could put so much wine in your fridge like that!
theresa
I know, just ounces and ounces!
biz
Ounces and ounces of it! [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] You… are a genius. Failures!
clip
[Dramatic orchestral music plays in the background.] Theresa: [In a voice akin to the Wicked Witch of the West] Fail. Fail. Fail. FAIL! [Timpani with foot pedal engaged for humorous effect.] Biz: [Calmly] You suck! [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective failures of the week.]
biz
Fail me, Theresa.
theresa
Okay. So this is a little bit of a sad fail. I won’t… go on and on about it. I just… I feel like I am failing Curtis, our three-year-old, in this time. Like, I just… I mean… he’s—he’s doing okay. But there’s, like… you know, he has these like speech issues and we’re still doing the speech therapy by Zoom, but that, like, isn’t really enough? And so… I don’t know if he’s regressed? But he definitely hasn’t made any progress in the last couple months. And… he’s like… he’s such a sweet kid but he’s like… I can tell that he does not have remotely—I mean, none of them do. Have the outlet for their energy that they need. Like, we haven’t been able to be outside. We haven’t really even been able to play outside in our own backyard just because of stuff that’s going on with one of Curtis’s siblings. And he, like… has been throwing toys in the house? Like, throwing toys at people? Just like, so impulsively. And… we haven’t been able to get him to stop doing that and it’s really hard to see him do it because I—I know that I don’t know that I am why he’s doing that? But like, every time he does it I feel like it’s my fault that he’s doing that? And that he wouldn’t be doing that if circumstances were different? And… I just… hate it. And I—it feels… it feels like a fail. Like, and I can’t fix it right now. Like, again—my bar is set at not screaming and keeping everyone safe. So that applies to him, too. Even though, like… y’know, we get the emails every week from his Montessori preschool with like suggested activities. [Laughs.] And like, I can’t—I can’t do them right now! I don’t even look at them anymore. So. Yeah. It sucks.
biz
I’m… I’m sorry. I know. I get that. I get that fail.
theresa
Yeah. Thanks.
biz
Yeah. So… some of you who follow us on Instagram will know that last week—[deep breath] I spilled the flour. [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] Right now, when flour is impossible to find! Anywhere! I was taking it down and… I just—I was—just took it out! And like it just—it was in my hand in its glass container, and then it wasn’t in my hand. [Theresa laughs.] And, y’know, the fun thing about flour is it does not stay in a small little spot. It just like—it goes up like a—like a fifth-grade science experiment. Just straight in the air! So there’s flour for days. Be, like, all over my pants. All over my body. All in—cabinets and drawers were open when I spilled it? So, like, what I… what I took a picture of was a funny—funny picture of the spill. But what wasn’t [through laughter] shown was the drawer full of flour. The, like, y’know, countertop covered. The cat food—like, it just… it also felt like such a like—“Let them eat cake!” sort of moment [through laughter] because like—we didn’t—we’re, y’know, trying to keep up with our flour—right? ‘Cause you can’t—we can’t always guarantee that we’ll find flour at our grocery store. And so I—it felt—it felt like spilt milk. So.
theresa
Yes.
biz
There ya go.
theresa
I am sorry. You suck.
biz
I… am a monster.
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] This is a fail. Hi, Biz and Theresa. Trying to do something nice for myself during the pandemic. Wanted to paint my nails. Keep the nail polish away from the kids in a, y’know, place where they can’t really get to it. It’s in my bedroom. I was shaking up the bottle. It fell out of my hand. Mint nail polish all over the hardwood floor. All over my pants. All over my shoes. [Deep breath.] Now… instead of taking a nice moment to myself, I’m on my hands and knees scrubbing nail polish off the hardwood floor. I don’t know if I could use nail polish remover. I’m thinking probably not. [Both hosts laugh.] I figure it’ll just mess up the floor. So… that’s fun. [Sighs.] We’re all doing a good job. Me, not so much at this exact moment. But at some point today I’ll probably do a good job at something. Thanks for the show! Love you guys. Bye.
biz
I… this is like, everything. This is—it’s like the flour in that—if my children were using the flour—they probably would not have spilled it. Right? Like, it… like, the assumption is that adults are very good at adulting things. Like carrying them or opening them. And that children… will make a guaranteed mess. And… I can see it. I—I can see the opening the nail polish. The, like, “I’m gonna have this [through laughter] nice moment” and then it just spilling. And it going everywhere. And it’s not like flour. You can’t vacuum it up. [Theresa laughs.] Like, it’s there. And—and it’s the extra time! It’s like, I just—I tried so hard today! To do X, Y, Z! I tried so hard today to do something nice for myself. And what happened is, I lost that time… because now I had to clean it up. And—
theresa
Yeah. This is why when I get time to myself? I just stand still. [Biz laughs. Theresa joins in.]
biz
Yeah. That is very smart.
theresa
Thank you.
biz
You, madame, on the other hand? Are doing a horrible job. Stop trying to do things nice for yourself! When will we learn?!
music
“Mom Song” by Adira Amram. Mellow piano music with lyrics. You are the greatest mom I’ve ever known. I love you, I love you. When I have a problem, I call you on the phone. I love you, I love you. [Music fades out.]
music
Jazzy piano music plays in background.
theresa
One Bad Mother is supported in part by Story Time Chess at Home. A teach-it-yourself digital lesson book that uses fun, engaging stories with interesting, diverse characters to make chess super accessible. For kids as young as three!
biz
I grew up with a father who constantly tried to teach me chess. And… while… I kind of learned how to play chess? [Laughs.] I always found it sort of boring to learn. Story Time Chess has been a delight for the kids. And what’s fun is that each character has its own story. So there are two different kings and they both have their stories. There are queens with their stories. And their stories tell you how each character moves.
theresa
So for a limited time, One Bad Mother listeners can get 30% off their first monthly or annual payment by entering the code “badmother” at home.StoryTimeChess.com. Make the right move! Head to home.StoryTimeChess.com today and enter coupon code “badmother” at checkout. [Music finishes.]
biz
Hey, Theresa! Let’s call someone today!
music
Upbeat guitar with choral voices
biz
This week we are talking to Angela Siefer, who is the executive director of the National Digital Inclusion Alliance. Angela has been working in the field we now call “digital inclusion” since 1997. In 2015, Angela helped found the National Digital Inclusion Alliance—a unified voice for home broadband access; public broadband access; personal devices; and local technology training and support programs. Welcome, Angela!
angela siefer
Thank you! Thanks for having me!
biz
Well, never has your work felt more relevant than it does right now. But before we get into that, uh, we’d like to ask you what we always ask our guest, which is—who lives in your house?
angela
So I answer that question differently today— [Biz laughs.] —than I would have pre-COVID.
biz
[Through laughter] ‘K. [Laughs.]
angela
Like many households out there, I have two college kids. So, uh, I have one nine-year-old, uh, who will be ten in two weeks. And then I have two college kids. So before it was a household of three; we were slightly empty-nesting on the path. But now that’s all gone. Uh, and so the oldest is homeschooling? I don’t know. What are we calling it now? He’s leading her education ‘cause my husband and I are working. [Biz laughs.] And sometimes they do it and sometimes they don’t. Whatever. It’s fine. [Theresa laughs.] And, uh, then the other one is super helpful around the house and created a bingo game for us. That was awesome.
biz
Nice.
theresa
We have, uh, two pets. We have, um, one older dog who’s pretty chill and then we have a smaller, younger monster who’s not chill. But thankfully, doggie daycare is considered essential in Ohio.
theresa
Whoa. [Biz laughs.]
angela
When we learned that, we were all so grateful. I can’t tell you.
biz
Wow! [Theresa laughs.] But—but your kids are still home. [Both hosts laugh.] I… really like that in a way that’s not okay. Like— [Laughs.] Just like… wow! [Claps.] Wooo! Okay.
theresa
Well, we gotta—I mean, we gotta take the wins. Like, at least—
biz
Yeah! I agree!
theresa
—you can get the puppy outta there.
biz
Yeah.
theresa
During the day. Yeah.
biz
Wow.
angela
My husband is in charge of that. He does the mask. He does the whole thing to take the dog— [Biz laughs.] —to doggie daycare five days a week. And it is so essential.
crosstalk
Angela: It’s great. Biz: That’s… incredible.
biz
How… are you? You’re in Ohio. How are you? We’re all in different places.
angela
It’s okay, actually. My world—as you mentioned—um, my popularity is through the roof.
crosstalk
Angela: So that’s kind of weird. Biz: Yeah, it is. [Theresa laughs.]
angela
Uh, I work more than I’ve ever probably in my life. But my family is super supportive. The two college kids are learning how to cook!
biz
Oh! Good!
angela
So they might come out of this more skilled than they went in, because I do this with you instead of… making dinner. [Laughs.] [Biz and Theresa laugh.]
biz
No. Life skills are incredibly important.
angela
Exactly.
biz
Yeah. But okay. Otherwise, you’re—you guys are hanging in there?
angela
I feel incredibly fortunate. Family is healthy. I live in a household where I have a front porch and a small backyard so we are outside. I feel like I have much to be thankful for.
biz
Well let’s talk about… digital inclusion. Tell us a little bit about it. And… considering that you’ve worked in this field— [Laughs.] Since 1997, can you give us a general scope of how much this has changed over the years?
angela
Sure. Uh, when I started into this field—which was grad school in Toledo, Ohio—it was more about access to a computer? And now… it is access to the internet. And a computer. And digital skills. So it’s really that you need all of those things? In order to fully participate. So we think of digital equity as the goal. Everybody needs access. Communities need access. And they need to know how to use it. And then digital inclusion are the programs that get us to the goal. So those are, um, affordable home broadband programs. And digital literacy programs. And making sure everybody has the right device? ‘Cause a mobile phone is not it.
biz
No. That’s a—that’s a really, actually, a really excellent point. I don’t think… for… many of us—until we were suddenly doing all learning online with our kids? Y’know, the difference—the—even from staff! Even from teachers! Y’know? Where they’re trying to [through laughter] use a phone sometimes or… and kids—I have, um, a kindergartener and a ten-year-old going—y’know—in fifth grade. And, y’know, kindergarteners trying to do even the minimum of Zooming using a telephone—I cannot tell you how many times I’m just looking at ceilings? [Laughs.] And it’s like— [Laughs.] It’s just—faces and noses and—and you can’t—you need multiple… y’know, the ability to see multiple things. I think that’s—that’s really interesting. And I—and yet… part of me… is like… that must be a really hard sell. When it comes to… getting funding and making—I mean, that seems like a challenge. Because I would imagine… there are people in the world who would say—well, they have a phone. Right?
angela
That’s exactly right. And—but I think it’s different now? Because COVID has drawn attention? So now there are school districts buying connectivity for students. Buying devices. There are foundations that have never been involved in this work before. I am getting calls from folks I didn’t even—organizations I didn’t know existed. Wanting to know what they can do to help. And so if I’m getting those calls, certainly folks locally are getting those calls, too! I know they are! And so the question then is—how do we make sure that we’re not just solving the issue for the crisis; we need to solve this long-term, because really, folks? We should’ve solved it prior to the crisis. [Biz laughs.]
biz
This— [Laughs.] This entire experience has been showing us… such a number of things.
angela
So many inequities.
biz
So many inequities. Would you consider… these last three months to be the—like—fastest leap? In… trying to… y’know, solve this—like, ’97— [Laughs.] To now. If you were looking at a timeline, slow… maybe a little fast… slow… and then twenty years crammed into three months. Is that—I mean—what has it felt like these last couple of months?
angela
There is… a bill that has been introduced in the House. That is suggesting a $50 subsidy on broadband service. It—that is astounding. It is absolutely necessary, but if you had asked me three months ago—do you think we could get a federal broadband subsidy? I’d be like, ah, somebody’s been smoking something! [Biz laughs.] ‘Cause that’s not gonna happen!
biz
Wow.
angela
And here we are! It is a proposed legislation. Uh, and it is being discussed. Like, as a legitimate—and ‘cause it is legitimate! I don’t feel like I have to fight that anymore. I don’t have to fight the “why.”
biz
I—that’s gotta feel good. [Laughs.] I mean, did you— [Laughs.]
angela
[Through laughter] I could tell you—sometimes the media still wants you to—or sometimes folks who are working on reports still want me to tell them why? And I got kinda snippy [through laughter] with somebody recently. And I had to kind of pull myself back. Because really. Come on.
crosstalk
Biz: Yeah. I actually feel— Angela: Do I really need to tell you why?
biz
If you would like to just dance around right now and say—ha, ha, ha! I’ve been telling you so for years! Uh, this is the audience to do that for? We are here for you. [Laughs.]
angela
Thank you.
biz
I mean, god.
theresa
Can we also just… I mean, maybe this part is obvious? But I just… since the start of this, um, and being involved in like parent Facebook groups from my kids’, y’know, schools… I’ve been thinking about the families that don’t have access. And I’ve had—I’ve had, um… y’know, parents that I know from one of my kid’s schools posting, like, trying to figure out not only how to get a computer, but how to get the school to find out that they need a computer. But then once they have the computer that the school is lending to them, like, learning to use the computer? And like say they have a kindergartener who pretty much doesn’t know how to use that computer. Like, you take that situation—which feels like a pretty steep learning curve. And then you compare it to my situation, which is—a house that has many devices. More devices than people. And it’s—and it still took us two weeks, probably? To understand— [Biz laughs.] —how all the apps worked and to get all the right apps downloaded and find the right login information? ‘Cause y’know, the school’s got like the login credentials for us and getting those connected through the Google Classroom and through—and—and—and figuring out how to do that in a way that didn’t feel like I was spending my kids’ school time just basically… like, troubleshooting technology? [Biz laughs.] Like, that… made me feel—like, the idea of like comparing those two situations? Like, what a—what an impossible situation this really is. For folks who are starting out from not having access. Period.
angela
So let me add to the complications of the scenario you just created? Is that in the US, we know from census data—18 million US households do not have internet at home. 14 million of those 18 million are urban. That’s not a lack of infrastructure problem. That is a “internet is expensive” problem. That problem is solvable. That is the kicker here. [Through laughter] This problem… is solvable. Even the internet in rural areas—that is a solvable problem! You build internet out to those areas.
biz
The experiences I’ve had in… school, uh, with my kids has been—there’s also been—even before this—y’know, one of the schools we went to wanted to go paperless. And I kept having to go and explain—I have family—I was, like, a room parent. I have families that don’t have a computer. Like—like one of the moms—y’know, they didn’t have email. So she kept like—like, email—she kept having to change her email ‘cause they would get email just for a little while. Another issue—along with having internet access, having access to the technology—is, y’know, there are so many students, uh, that live in homes where the parents don’t speak English as a first language. In Katy Belle’s earlier kindergarten, first grade, the school was trying to go paperless but I kept saying, eh, we have families who don’t have, uh, computers at home or they don’t have emails! Like, they don’t—I mean, plenty of people don’t have emails!
angela
Yes. So that is connected to the… situation of children knowing more about the technology than their parents. So… in some households, the child know enough? To get by? In other households the child doesn’t know enough to get by? In those households often the child is the one who is the interpreter? So can we expect a child to know how to keep themselves safe online? Oh, no, we can’t. Really. And the parents, um, are already dealing with the challenge of the language barrier? And they—needing to keep their children safe and make sure that their child is getting all the support that they need; but they rely upon the child for them to be that intermediary in terms of a language? So then you throw the technology in the mix and—whew. That’s a rough road. Right?
biz
Yeah. It—it is. How… with all this distance learning happening right now—let’s talk about some of the obstacles, uh, more. And… like… how… what is the solution? And that’s broad. It—there— [Laughs.] Like, solve it. Can you solve it? Yeah. I know that there’s no, like—[makes chopping sound], but like—there’s so much to this! I just—I’m gonna stop talking and I’m gonna listen to you, a person who has spent most of her life doing this. [Laughs.]
angela
There are the different barriers? But once we narrow in on the different barriers we can then talk about all the solutions. So we tend to think about the barriers as being connecting to the internet—and that needs to be affordable and reliable; uh, so that tends to be, uh, in urban areas it tends to be a cost issue? Sometimes a digital literacy issue, ‘cause why would you pay for something you don’t know how to use. That’d be dumb.
biz
Right.
angela
And then in rural areas, it is those things plus the availability of it. So those are all the barriers that we need to address regarding internet in one’s home. And then there’s the barrier of the device. Tablet. Computer. And in this current… distance learning situation, that’s a device for every child? Whoa! Maybe you managed one before and now you need more? Okay. That’s a problem. And then there’s the skills part of it. And that has to do with… knowing how to do what it is you need to do to get by? But then also all those issues of safety? Uh, and… being able to conduct… the online learning for the child but then also for the adult, being able to do the other things they need to do. Because we’re supposed to be staying home? Okay. Well, then, uh, online banking? I love online banking, but if you’ve never done online banking? It can look like a scam. Right? So how do you feel safe about online banking and now how to do it if you’ve never done it before? So the solutions—the solution—there are solutions for all those things. For the broadband at home, it is—building it out to areas that don’t have it; changing policies to make that a little bit easier to happen; subsidies. We have to have a broadband subsidy. I really looked at this a hundred different ways? I don’t see any other way around it. Devices? We need to pay for people to have devices if they don’t have a device. That might be corporate donations; it might be philanthropy; it might be government. It is probably all of those things solving it. And then the digital literacy and the tech support? This has to come from someone that’s trusted. That might be somebody at the school. That might be somebody at a library. It might be a nonprofit where people are speaking in the language that you speak to make sure that you can understand what’s going on? So—and that has to come from a place of trust. ‘Cause if somebody comes up to you and says, look, there’s a $10 internet deal. It’ll be great. You’re gonna be like, sure, buddy. $10 for internet. But if it comes from a trusted source—because there are, in fact, $10 internet options—but you have to trust the source.
biz
This is overwhelming.
angela
It is a little overwhelming.
biz
It’s very overwhelming. I mean, we talk about that on the show. That like… y’know—[sighs.] Trying to… argue a insurance bill. Or just trying to get—like, any of the things that require work and effort to get set up. Involve a time commitment that many of us don’t have. Because of… hours. Work. Children. I mean, I—I feel like… one of the biggest things—we talked about this last week with our guest, and I feel like this ties in some to what you’re talking about—is we’re talking about returning to work but we’re not talking about children going back to school. And it’s—we’re gonna be relying—even—even though we’ve got technology in our house? I’ve started with the realization that we’re probably not going back in a normal way next year? Do we have the right technology. Right? Like, do we even have… the right stuff to meet the needs of what online learning looks like. That was just me on a soapbox yelling. Uh— [Laughs.] How can… instead of me just yelling into the void, how can we help with this? Yeah.
angela
Right. So there’s two different levels of help. There’s the level of help where you are helping a family. In your town. Right. To make this happen. And that—and I—even that, I suggest, is not just finding an extra computer in your house, which is a great thing to do; but pushing local leadership. What’s the local government doing? They have to be doing something. If they’re not, they should be pushed to do something. What’s the school district doing? What’s the library doing? What are the nonprofits doing? What is the—um—the different entities in town, right? Who’s the—are there any local foundations? What’s—what are—just keep asking the question; asking the question; asking the question. What are folks doing? Should we all be doing something together? Yes, of course, is the answer. [Biz laughs.] But if somebody doesn’t keep asking the question and pull folks together? The solutions will only be a nice person giving a computer to someone else in the family. Which is important! But we have to move that up a notch? ‘Cause there—there was funding allocated in different pots in the CARES Act. Ask! Ask—where’s the CDBG money going that the city got? Where’s the money that the schools got through the CARES Act? Like, ask those questions because some of that should be going to the connectivity—home connectivity—and to the devices. And for the tech support. But then once you get past that, it’s the advocacy at a larger level. It is state government advocacy; it is federal government advocacy; asking our elected officials—what are you doing to make sure that all of the households—those with kids—the seniors? Oh my gosh. We have to make sure seniors have it. They’re the ones that are going to die. Right? So can we just make sure they all have internet to help them stay at home? And somebody has to help them learn how to use it. For some of ‘em. Some of ‘em will be cool. Other ones won’t be cool.
biz
Yeah. I mean—I think about my own parents, who… are suddenly having to order groceries through, y’know, an app. And they’re—they’re doing it. But they’re not… I mean… [sighs.] It—they are—they are intelligent people who figured it out. That said—that— [Laughs.] We’ve been on the phone. And like—[makes strained noises]. Like, are you sure?
angela
Yeah. My 20-year-old daughter was talking to the neighbor across the street and she came back over. And she said—did you know Paul’s still going to the grocery store? They’re not having their groceries delivered! Paul is somewhere over 60. 70, I think. And she’s like—we have to teach them [through laughter] how to have their groceries delivered! [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.] Like—because—if you haven’t done it before, it can look intimidating. So then you just don’t do it. But yeah! They should be having their groceries delivered.
biz
Yeah. I don’t even like that process. That process was intimidating to me. So it—and it goes against, sometimes, a lot of like our inherent… I’ll do it. I can do it. Myself. It feels weird to ask. Well… I am glad that we were not scared to ask you join us on the show. Your work is—has always been incredibly important, and I am glad that when the rest of us were finally catching up? You were there to catch up to.
crosstalk
Angela: Thank you. Biz: I really—
angela
I very much appreciate that.
biz
Yeah. Uh, we see you. And for those of us who didn’t see you before— [Laughs.] Woo hoo! We see you now. We’re gonna link everybody up to where they can find out, uh, more information, uh, with the National Digital Inclusion Alliance. How they can support you. How they can help their local communities. Thank you so much for the work that you do and thank you so much for joining us today.
angela
Thank you for having me! It was delightful.
biz
Absolutely!
music
“Telephone,” by “Awesome.” Down-tempo guitar and falsetto singing. Brainwaves send a message: Pick up the phone (When you, I call) Arm is moving now, no longer stone (When you, I call) Hand reaches out with a will of its own (When you, I call) [Music fades out.]
promo
Music: light, mid-tempo rock. Jesse Thorn: Hey, MaxFunsters! It’s Jesse Thorn. This week on my public radio interview show Bullseye, I’m talking with Tina Fey and Robert Carlock about creating Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, 30 Rock, and also just kind of…why they’re the best at everything. [Laughs.] Tina Fey: There was a window of time when we—we’d just go to awards things and pick up our prizes and party with the people from Mad Men. Jesse: You can find Bullseye at MaximumFun.org or wherever you listen to podcasts. Just search for “Bullseye with Jesse Thorn.” [Music finishes; cheers in background.]
promo
Music: Guitar strums as singer counts out “One, two, one two three four.” Up-tempo guitar and harmonica music plays in the background. Justin McElroy: Hi, everybody! My name is Justin McElroy. Dr. Sydnee McElroy: I’m Sydnee McElroy! Justin: We’re both doctors, and— Sydnee: Nope. Just me. Justin: Okay, well Sydnee’s a doctor and I’m a medical enthusiast. Sydnee: Okay. Justin: And we created Sawbones, a marital tour of misguided medicine! Sydnee: Every week I dig through the annals of medical history to bring you the wildest, grossest—sometimes dumbest—tales of ways we’ve tried to treat people throughout history! Justin: Eh, lately we do a lot of modern fake medicine. ‘Cause everything’s a disaster. But it’s slightly less of a disaster every Friday, right here on MaximumFun.org, as we bring you Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine. And remember: Sydnee: Don’t drill a hole in your head. [Music ends.]
biz
Whoa! National Digital Inclusion Alliance. This is… this is so… important? And I— [Laughs.] I really—I really do hope that Angela has danced around several times in front of her partner and her family and just yelled—[yelling] I told you! I told you. [Regular voice] I would not be gracious enough to not be like, I have been telling you! [Theresa laughs.] Forever! You idiots! Uh, so—
theresa
I just picture one giant UGH emoji? Like, with the two lines for eyes and the one line for a mouth? [Laughs.] That’s what I picture. [Biz laughs.]
biz
Or that—that sigh? [Sighs at length. Theresa joins in.] Like, the really, like—[facetiously] eh. Oh. Do we?
crosstalk
Biz: Do we need it? Hmm. We should go right on it. [Laughs.] Theresa: [Flatly] Really? This is an issue now? So it’s an issue now. [Laughs.]
biz
Oh. I love smart people. So everybody—make sure you check out the links below in the show notes to where you can find out more information about that. Something else you can find lurking about in our links is our hotline number for you to call and leave… a rant.
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Hi, Biz and Theresa! This is a rant. And it’s not even, like, an angry rant or an upset rant? It’s just a… everyone is doing their best and it still fucking sucks rant. I have two kids who are now homeschooling and our district originally was sending out emails every morning by 8AM with all the stuff they wanted you to do for your kid that day. Or all the… homeschool activities. Which was fine. Get up in the morning and then dive right in. They realized after a couple weeks that that didn’t work great for a lot of families—especially if people had healthcare workers or anyone—any essential workers still working because you couldn’t prepare at all beforehand. Which makes total sense. Getting it at 8AM if you need to be at work at 8AM isn’t gonna work. You can’t prepare for the day. So they changed it so that now they send it out the night before! By like 5:00. The teacher will send out the email for the next day. Now, every part of this makes sense and I think it was a great choice and I’m so proud of them for trying something; realizing it wasn’t working for everyone; and then making a chance. But for me? I’ve realized that… when I would get those emails of all these things I had to make happen during the day? First thing in the morning? With a cup of coffee in my hand? It seemed manageable. It was like, okay. [Biz laughs.] We’re gonna get started. We’re gonna cross some of the things off the list. It’s gonna be fine. It would eventually go off the rails, but like—we’d get a couple things done and feel good about it! And now when I’m getting the emails at the end of the day? [Biz laughs.] It’s just like… I’ve already spent every ounce of everything that I have? And it’s just so like morally… I don’t know. It’s just emotionally demoralizing. To get this thing of like, hey, guess what! Tomorrow, you have a whole new list of things you have to do! [Biz laughs.] And like—it’s not like they should change anything. And I could just not read the email— [Theresa laughs.] —though I know it’s there and I’m gonna look at it. It’s just like… ugh. It’s just one of those things where it’s like, look. I’m doing my best. Trying. They’re doing an amazing job at the school trying to make this all work. But it still just fucking sucks. And, like… [Laughs.] It’s just… oh my god. I don’t even know. But I—I mean, you know. Everyone knows. We’re all doing it. [Biz laughs.] But it’s just, like, getting to me and I’m thinking about the week ahead and I’m just like… gritting myself and like cringing knowing that every day it’s just gonna be happening. So yeah. You guys are doing a great job. We are all trying our best and it still fucking sucks for everyone. Bye. [Biz laughs.]
theresa
Yeah!
biz
Wow. Didn’t that tie in nicely? We’re all trying so hard… and yet it still fucking sucks! Yeah!
theresa
Yeah! There’s also this thing about when you get something in advance, there’s this more added pressure to prepare—to prepare in advance. Like, I feel like if you get the email the night before, you’re—you get the feeling like, oh, I need to start working on this now or I’m expected to do that now or I should prepare in advance. Or… there’s this added layer there. Whereas I feel like if you get it first thing in the morning, there’s something, like… well, we’re all just flying by the seat of our pants! [Biz laughs.] Like, I don’t—nobody actually expects you to actually do this! You just got it right now! Like— [Laughs.] Y’know?
biz
Are you a morning person or a night person? Like, that is what this boils down to. Right? Like, either—let’s—let’s just—let’s get right to the point, which is—no matter what time somebody gives you a shitty coffee, it’s still gonna taste like shit. ‘K? Like, it doesn’t matter if you get it at night or in the morning; it is still anxiety-provoking. It is still a list of new things to do on top of all the things you are president of already. And.. it’s—it’s like—y’know. Like a domino game or Jenga game or something where it’s just like—it’s just—what’s the one thing [through laughter] that’s gonna be added that just tips the whole thing over? Wait—I’m not ready for it to tip over yet! Ahhhh! Like, [imitates sound of dominos falling one after another.] It’s gone. Yeah. This is—and you’re so nice. And you know what? I think this is actually… actually would like to imagine that where we all are is where you are in the sense of—I understand. Everybody… is doing their best to meet the needs of many people, which is impossible. Right? Some of us are morning people. Some of us are night people. You’re not gonna make everybody happy all the time. Right? And people— [Theresa sighs.] But people are try— [Laughs.]
theresa
Sorry. I just—I imagine myself being someone who worked all day as an essential worker and getting that email at 5:00? Oh, thank you for giving this to me ahead of time so that I can do this right now at the end of my day. [Biz laughs.] So that it’s ready for—like, I’m sorry. I know that I went off. But like… I’m just—it—yes! Just all of this, from every angle, is so sucky. That like, very little can be done.
biz
Well, it’s like you came home from being an essential worker at 10PM at night. You didn’t check your—y’know—you’re fine. You go to bed. You still have to get up the next morning and now there’s a brand-new thing waiting for you ‘cause it came in at 8AM! Yeah! It doesn’t… matter. It’s still… hard. And I—I—I do think it’s valuable to acknowledge that we all understand—everyone’s trying their best! But that doesn’t negate… you not liking it. [Theresa laughs.] I know people are trying their best! I still don’t like it! Y’know what I mean? Like, I don’t like it at all! So… you are doing… an incredibly good job.
theresa
Yeah, you are.
biz
I mean… on multiple levels. You’re doing a good job. Theresa? What did we learn today? I think I learned that… I can easily list all the things that I’m trying really hard at? And that I’m disappointed when it doesn’t… work out to how I imagined it? But what I’m not acknowledging is… all the stuff that you can’t see? Or that there is no reward for? And the… exhaustion… and the… the issues that that causes. Right? Like, yeah! We’re gonna make slime. Oh, you guys all fucking hate it? Great. And now I feel like—I feel horrible. Versus—like—at night, I’m gonna stay up worrying about how to make, y’know, this a bearable life for children who need to be with other people. Right? Like— [Laughs.] That—I’m not gonna see a result of them? But that’s taking a huge amount of my energy and time. Right?
theresa
Yes.
biz
So I tried so hard today. And, like, what—I—I—I don’t want this to be, like, a big suck thing of like—I tried so hard. Who cares? Right? There’s no point in trying. I want to keep trying. I do want things to be enjoyable for my children. I wanna have fun doing it too. I want us to all come out of this… okay enough? You know what I mean? Like—
theresa
Yes!
biz
I don’t wanna stop trying!
theresa
Yeah! No! I don’t—and I don’t think we… we will. I—I think that it’s… that—I think that that’s why we’re— [Laughs.] I think that that’s why we’re in this. Like… even since before… the… pandemic. Like, I think that… when you try, that’s when it’s hard!
biz
Yeah.
theresa
Y’know? So… yeah. We just… we aren’t gonna stop trying. We are gonna keep trying. And it just is— [Biz laughs.] —so… hard.
biz
And we’ll just try not to spill the fingernail polish all over the comforter. [Laughs.]
theresa
Yeah.
biz
Y’know? Like… ugh. Everybody? You’re doing… a remarkable job. Even when it doesn’t feel like it. Right? Like… I—you are! This is… it’s so ongoing. Every place is different. Every situation is different. For some people, summer is tomorrow. For others, it’s maybe two more weeks of… learning from home. It’s balancing work and kids in a way that we never had to balance—like, it’s like next-level trying to figure out that balance. It’s so… much. And… we see it and acknowledge it and we see you. And you—you really are doing an incredible job.
theresa
Yeah. You are.
biz
Theresa? It is so nice to see you. You are doing… you’re doing a remarkable job. And I really see you.
theresa
Thank you, Biz. You are also doing a very, very good job.
biz
Thank you. And—we will talk to you guys next week!
crosstalk
Biz and Theresa: Byeeeee!
music
“Mama Blues” by Cornbread Ted and the Butterbeans. Strumming acoustic guitar with harmonica and lyrics. I got the lowdown momma blues Got the lowdown momma blues Gots the lowdown momma blues The lowdown momma blues Gots the lowdown momma blues Got the lowdown momma blues You know that’s right [Music fades somewhat, plays in background of dialogue.]
biz
We’d like to thank MaxFun; our producer, Hannah Smith; our husbands, Stefan Lawrence and Jesse Thorn; our perfect children, who provide us with inspiration to say all these horrible things; and of course, you, our listeners. To find out more about the songs you heard on today’s podcast and more about the show, please go to MaximumFun.org/onebadmother. For information about live shows, our book and press, please check out OneBadMotherPodcast.com.
theresa
One Bad Mother is a member of the Maximum Fun family of podcasts. To support the show go to MaximumFun.org/donate. [Music continues for a while before fading out.]
speaker 2
Comedy and culture.
speaker 3
Artist owned—
speaker 4
—Audience supported.
About the show
One Bad Mother is a comedy podcast hosted by Biz Ellis about motherhood and how unnatural it sometimes is. We aren’t all magical vessels!
Join us every week as we deal with the thrills and embarrassments of motherhood and strive for less judging and more laughing.
Call in your geniuses and fails: 206-350-9485. For booking and guest ideas, please email onebadmother@maximumfun.org. To keep up with One Bad Mother on social media, follow @onebadmothers on Twitter and Instagram.
Get in touch with the show
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@OneBadMothers
@onebadmothers
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