Transcript
biz ellis
This is Biz. I’m a part-time working mom with two full-blown kids.
theresa thorn
And I’m Theresa. I have a family business, two young kids, and a toddler.
biz
This is a show about life after giving life. Don’t listen with your kids, ‘cause there will be swears. This… is One Bad Mother.
music
“Summoning the Rawk” by Kevin MacLeod. Driving electric guitar and heavy drums. [Continues through dialogue.]
biz
This week on One Bad Mother—Aunt Flo comes for a visit! Plus, Biz has a bad feeling about this; Theresa can’t live with them and can’t live without them; and we talk to Maureen Theresa Smith, author of Your Moontime Magic.
crosstalk
Biz and Theresa: Wooooo! [Theresa extends it; Biz extends it into a song.] [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective weeks.]
biz
How are you, Theresa? [Both laugh.]
theresa
I’m very excited about today’s show. Um—
crosstalk
Biz: [Yelling through laughter] I’m not! [Laughs.] Theresa: Um—
theresa
I’ve think our topic is gonna be hilarious. I’m really excited about forcing you to talk about your body.
biz
Ugh! [Laughs.]
theresa
[Through laughter] And—and, um, also… Maureen Smith, who is our guest, is all—happens to be my aunt!
biz
Ohh!
crosstalk
Theresa: As well as being an author. And— Biz: So your aunt is visiting! [Laughs.]
theresa
[Through laughter] My—my aunt is visiting! That is so true!
biz
Oh. If only her name was Flo.
theresa
Yeah! So I—yeah. I’m excited about today. Otherwise, I’m still sick. So make what you will of that.
crosstalk
Biz: Mm. So—wait. Wait! So all the organizing on your Sudafed high— Theresa: Given our previous updates. Yeah. All the—yeah.
biz
Did not provide healing—
theresa
Look. We don’t know anything for sure because this was not, like, clinical—
crosstalk
Theresa: —study— Biz: Right. We haven’t done several—
theresa
—situations. Like, if I hadn’t have done that cleaning— [Biz laughs.] —I might’ve been even sicker today! [Biz laughs.] We don’t know for sure! Okay? Um—
biz
Uh-huh.
theresa
Anyways, I did make it to Legoland with my kids.
biz
Happy birthday, Curtis! [Laughs.]
theresa
[Through laughter] Yeah. On Saturday for Curtis’s third birthday. And… it was… it was a good day. Okay? It was a good day. But something I am grappling with a little? If you will? Is… the fact that… I have these three kids, okay? [Biz laughs.] And—
biz
Yeah, you do!
theresa
They, like, y’know… Curtis keeps becoming more and more of a person. And… [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.] I think—y’know, what people think when they’re gonna have more than two kids? Is like, well, it’s just a—it becomes, like, a crew of kids. Like, it becomes, like… your team of kids. It’s not like—
crosstalk
Biz: Like you’re a teacher and you have a class of kids that you’re taking on field trips all the time! Theresa: There’s not, like—exactly!
theresa
Yes! It’s like—it’s not like you have, like, the one kid and the other kid or you have the one—like, it’s like—it’s just your kids. You know. In a pile.
biz
Yeah! Pile o’ kids.
theresa
Um—my kids haven’t, like, caught on to that too well yet, though? And I’m wondering— [Biz laughs.] —if it’s a real phenomenon? Or just like a thing we imagine when we’re looking at families. Like, a thing we—
biz
Like another lie!
theresa
—think we see. Yeah. Like, a lie that like everybody’s just gonna go with the flow.
crosstalk
Biz: Miscommunication! Flowing! Different flow. [Laughs.] Theresa: Flow again. Yeah. Different type of flow.
theresa
But—um—yeah! It was just—it was—I will say. It was… fun. I’m glad we went. But it was very challenging. Partially just because, y’know, we now have three different kids who all wanna do different things at Legoland. And we only have so much time at Legoland! Y’know? It takes two hours to get there and two hours to get home! And… y’know, people move at different paces. Grace wants to move very fast and do everything. Oscar’s pretty much ready to go after 45 minutes so he’s just asking to go—
biz
That’s Ellis! [Laughs.]
theresa
—the whole time. [Laughs.]
crosstalk
Biz: “I’m out. Can we go home now?” Theresa: Yeah. He’s like—okay!
theresa
This is—yeah! He was, like, in a pretty good mood? But he just kept asking to leave. [Biz laughs.] And I would say, well, do you wanna do this next or this? And he would say, I don’t want to do either of them! I just wanna go home! [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.]
crosstalk
Theresa: So, and I’m like— Biz: That’s where I’m like—
biz
—can I just take this one home?
theresa
I know! [Laughs.] I know!
biz
And leave the other two with you?
theresa
Well, so this was the thing! Like, I was—and definitely Grace was being—she was doing her best but it was really hard for her that her younger siblings were moving at it such a different pace. And a lot of the things that she wanted to do, Curtis just couldn’t do. Just because of his age and his height! And we kinda wanted to make it—like, mostly center on stuff he could do! So… the whole time we’re there, I’m thinking to myself, like… y’know… should I have—should I have, like, done it differently. Like, should I have just brought Curtis. Or should I have… like, I don’t know. Just—I—I was just trying to think, like, how could this have been better? [Biz laughs.] And—I really—like, it was a “you can’t live with ‘em, you can’t live without ‘em” situation! ‘Cause I really came to the conclusion that was like—and this is—I feel like this has been coming up a lot lately where I’m like—I… feel like it’s really hard when everyone’s here. But like, if someone’s missing— [Biz laughs.] —I really feel them missing! And like it’s not as fun without them! So it’s like a weird thing all the time!
biz
Do you mean, uh, purgatory?
theresa
I guess! [Biz laughs.] I guess!
biz
I know!
theresa
Yeah! And so—I dunno. That’s—that’s all. That was… sort of a mini lesson for me, I guess? Like, oh, it’s—I’ve just—it just has to be hard so that it can be fun?
biz
Yeah! There ya go.
theresa
Yeah. There ya go.
biz
Good listening to your instincts. [Both laugh.]
theresa
Thanks, Biz. How are you today?
biz
Uh… I got a bad feeling about this.
theresa
Okay.
biz
Sense of foreboding. That somebody’s getting sick this week?
theresa
Oh, yeah!
biz
It’s definitely a week that it would not be great? If somebody gets sick? Like… like, I’m actually just waiting for a call right now—both kids are fine. There’s no fever. But it’s the [weak cough]. Right? Where you’re like—[sighs.]
crosstalk
Biz: “My throat hurts a little but I’m sure it’s just my cough!” Theresa: You’re like, there’s something—yeah!
biz
And I’m like, oh god. Grr. Really? Ugh. And then Ellis—[weak cough]. And I’m like, ehhhh! Ughhh! And the school’s on, like, hyper alert because we’ve had this particular plague that’s been going through the school of like—fever for a week! Which—followed by a cough and runny nose. Right? And that—I mean—we’re talking, like… half of class is gone. Teachers getting it. I mean, it’s been going for like three full weeks now! And—that’s not what they’ve got, it’s gonna be something totally different if they are in fact sick? It’s probably just all this fucking weather we’ve been having? That’s going, [goofy voice] ooh, it’s 80 degrees! Now it’s 40 degrees! Now it’s 80! The winds are 70 miles an hour! Right? [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.]
theresa
Let’s shake it all around!
biz
Let’s shake it all around! So anyway, bad feeling about this. Which ties in nicely to what I think we’re gonna talk about today— [Theresa laughs.] —which is my bad feeling about… talking about… periods. [Both laugh.]
music
Banjo strums; cheerful banjo music continues through dialogue.
theresa
Please—take a moment to remember: If you’re friends of the hosts of One Bad Mother, you should assume that when we talk about other moms, we’re talking about you.
biz
If you are married to the host of One Bad Mother, we definitely are talking about you.
theresa
Nothing we say constitutes professional parenting advice.
biz
Biz and Theresa’s children are brilliant, lovely, and exceedingly extraordinary.
theresa
Nothing said on this podcast about them implies otherwise. [Banjo music fades out.] [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss the weekly topic.]
biz
Theresa! It’s that time of the month. The visit… from Aunt Flo! Time to receive your red badge of courage! [Laughs.] Crimson tide! These are just some of my—these are just—
theresa
On the rag?
biz
On the rag! I hate that one. [Both laugh.] So much! Are you on the rag? Anyway, uh— [Laughs.] Checking into the Red Roof Inn! You got any more?
theresa
Mmm, I don’t know that one!
biz
I don’t know that one either, internet. “Lady Business.” I am the CEO of—Lady Business! [Both laugh.] And—“Moontime!”
crosstalk
Theresa: Yes. Moontime. A rather— Biz: Right? Which—which is—
theresa
—nice one!
biz
Yeah! Which is so interesting ‘cause I didn’t—I—like—literally, we got your aunt’s book and I was like, “Moontime Magic? What’s this about?” And then I was like— [Theresa laughs.] —what?! And then like I realize—ohhh! Somewhere, somebody’s referring to it as like a mystical, awesome thing! I didn’t live in that land. [Laughs.]
theresa
Yeah. You lived in Alabama. [Laughs.]
biz
I lived in Alabama! I was raised Southern and Catholic. I have no opinion of my body other than—let’s don’t ever talk about it. [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] So—here’s—I’m just gonna—like… [deep breath]. This is a weird conversation we’re about to have. But it—obviously, I think… we—our kids are getting older.
theresa
Yeah!
biz
They are both about to have very different experiences. We ourselves should probably clear the air on where, like, what baggage we have been carrying our pads and tampons around in? Because that will affect how we help our kids navigate through this?
theresa
Yeah!
biz
A little. So let’s start—let’s start with ourselves.
theresa
Okay.
biz
Also ties in nicely to our guest. Period, period, period, period, period, period, tbhth. Okay. Uh— [Theresa laughs.] [Laughs.] I’m just gonna—
theresa
Good. I think anyone who’s uncomfortable with this will no longer— [Biz laughs.] —be listening. [Laughs.]
crosstalk
Theresa: [Through laughter] After that introduction! [Laughs.] Biz: Ohhh! Zim zada bing! Poof!
biz
Let’s just start. Well, actually, I wanna say—I wanna touch on the uncomfortableness.
theresa
Okay.
biz
Just right off the bat. Because… you guys have heard me on many a soapbox talking about how sinister it is that things having to do with women and their bodies—we tend to… say we don’t wanna hear about. Or talk about. And it’s great that you have that, but don’t ever talk about it, which then leads to it being mysterious, which inevitably leads to it being sinister.
theresa
And shameful!
biz
And shameful. Eh, then that leads to… probably… a horrible end! Like—burnings! [Theresa laughs.] On pyres, right?
theresa
Oh, wow!
biz
In fact—in fact, I was thinking—I was reading an article recently, y’know, we refer to this place as the “period hut” because we are—
theresa
Our studio.
biz
Our studio. Because I think it’s just because it’s very—stark. It’s not—like, it’s just like a—always feel like we’re being kind of put off. Y’know. Like—“ladies in a rather largely male-dominated—” y’know, industry. I have lots of thoughts about it.
theresa
Can I say why I thought it was the Period Hut? Because we would go here to, like, have… our—our time. Where we can talk about anything we wanna talk about.
biz
That’s right!
theresa
Yeah.
biz
Period huts are horrible places! [Theresa laughs.] In reality. In fact, a young woman recently died in, essentially, a period hut! I read this article in the New York Times. It’s called “An Old Menstruation Taboo Killed Her.” This time, a man actually went to jail for it.
theresa
Wow.
biz
Because he’s the one who sent—this was in Nepal. Kathmandu! Nepal. And—every winter, in Nepal, it’s snow-covered. Young women keep dying because of this superstition that they shouldn’t be with people when they’re on their period! This is right now!
theresa
Wow. Okay.
biz
And, like, the huts, like—so the tradition says that any woman on her period must be banished outside to a cowshed or a makeshift bunker, no matter how cold or dangerous. It’s been a ritual belief to protect “the purity of the village,” for as long as anyone can remember.
theresa
Wow.
biz
And guess what? [Yelling] They die!
theresa
Okay.
biz
So… on that note— [Laughs.] I should embrace talking about it.
theresa
Well—yeah! But you’re also… the—the taboo—the taboo is not your fault.
biz
True.
theresa
And… your feelings—which are deeply engrained—are totally valid. Like, these—this is—I think I agree. I think it’s great that we’re talking about it. But I also think… it’s okay that you have whatever feelings you have about it because this is just… this is how we’ve been raised! This is our culture. This is the way it is. That’s not your fault.
biz
True. So with all that said—when you were a kid… what did you think about it? Were you excited to get it? Were you scared? What—yeah.
theresa
So… I was excited to get it. I… really— [Laughs.]
biz
Yeah. I’m like, smiling ‘cause I’m like, yeah. I know Theresa was excited.
theresa
Well, okay. I’m not trying to say that I had no, like, shame or embarrassment ever about my period, ‘cause that wouldn’t be true at all. But I will say, like, when I was 10, 11, 12, I was one of those kids who was just very—like, enraptured by the idea of, like, becoming a teenager and becoming a young woman. Like, I would kind of like look up to girls who were older than me and I thought they were really beautiful and really cool— [Biz laughs.] —and I like, really wanted to get my first bra—
biz
Oh, yeah!
theresa
And I was—and I felt that when I did get my period, that would make me very mature and very grown up.
biz
You could start smoking cigarettes right away. [Laughs.]
theresa
Yes. [Laughs.] And—so I was excited to get my period. I mean, I think part of that… not—wasn’t just my personality, but I was also growing up in a household with a mom who was, y’know, she’s the therapist and she works with adolescent girls and so this is an area of focus for her professionally, not just as a mom. So like, as far as I was concerned growing up—even though I was obviously picking up the shame culture that we have as a society around my period—and I understood that it was private and there were certain times you would talk about it and certain times you wouldn’t—I still got the message from my mom—which I think was very foundational, which was that—this was a good thing and a special thing and something to be celebrated.
biz
Right.
theresa
So that sort of allowed me to… look forward to it. But I will say that, like, I definitely remember… y’know, once I had my period I was always worried about, y’know, it leaking. Or somebody seeing. Or even, like, the sounds that the papers make in the bathroom when you’re using—you know. Even around other girls! Like… just felt really shy about that and I can remember, like, one time in particular being in eighth grade and I remember seeing another girl in my class… taking, like, a pad out—or taking a pencil out of her, like, pencil bag? And there was a pad in there? And she wasn’t shy about—like, she didn’t try to hide it or anything? And I remember looking at that and being like, so mystified— [Biz laughs.] —at how she was so comfortable. Like, it was not a thing to her? Like, she’s like, obviously I have a pad. [Biz laughs.] And I remember thinking, like… wow! Like, I go to great pains to hide my pads. You know, or my tampons.
crosstalk
Biz: Yay! I’m finally a woman! No one know! [Laughs.] Theresa: Or whatever. Yeah! Yeah, exactly! [Laughs.] Yeah!
theresa
Except for, like, my closest friends. You know? Like of course I would talk to my closest friends about it. But not for the world! Not for boys! Not for—y’know.
biz
Yeah! I think I was pretty late compared to my friends. So just like—
theresa
As far as when you got it?
biz
Uh-huh. So just like in pregnancy I kept thinking—is this it? Am I going into labor?
theresa
Of course!
biz
I—I am sure I’m going into labor right now. And everybody’s like, you’ll know. That’s exactly the same story of the period! Like, is this it? Am I cramping? Am I about to do it? You’ll know! You’ll know.
crosstalk
Biz: And I was like, nope! Obviously—blood! [Laughs.] Right! Yeah! I’m like— Theresa: You’ll know because your underwear will have blood all over it! Yeah. Thanks. [Laughs.]
biz
—am I supposed to be—like, am I gonna know when I’m bowled over? Like, clenching my stomach and cramps and vomiting? Like, y’know… and so—y’know. I just—knew it was eventually going to—I don’t—I don’t remember having any opinion of it. One way or the other. Except wishing… I had already gotten it. Right?
theresa
That is a weird thing. Like, who has it and who doesn’t is like a weird club. Of like—
biz
It is! It makes me think of My Little Pony and the Cutie Mark Crusaders!
crosstalk
Theresa: Yes! It totally is. It—totally is. Biz: I’m like, kinda how Cutie Mark is totally code for period. [Laughs.]
theresa
And, that is—that poses an interesting question—I might be getting ahead of our conversation—but like, for my daughter, Grace, who won’t be menstruating because she’s trans. She—she doesn’t have a uterus. She’s not going to ovulate or— [Biz laughs.]
crosstalk
Biz: Not magically— [Laughs.] Right! Theresa: —menstruate—yeah!
theresa
You know. Even if she chooses to use hormone blockers or chooses to… later on in her teen years use hormones. She will be able to have, like, y’know, some of the quote-unquote, like, “female” characteristics that we get during puberty. But she will not ever menstruate! And so I don’t know what those teen years and early teen years will bring? But I do feel a little tenderness around that idea, just because—yeah! I remember that too. I think mine started when I was 12 or something—
crosstalk
Theresa: —so I was a little on the earlier side? Oh, you think that’s late? Biz: Yeah. Mine was, like, 12. Yeah. Oh, see, mine—I thought—
biz
Biz: I feel like 12 was late compared to some of my friends. Ooooh! Yeah, maybe. I don’t know. None of us ever talked about it! [Laughs.] Theresa: Oh, I feel like 14 was late. Or 14 or something like that. Who knows! Nobody knows. We never talked about it!
theresa
Um—yeah. I feel like early was, like… y’know, 11. And… late was 14? But I—I honest—guys? I get—once again, we’re always reminded that we are not doctors. [Laughs.]
crosstalk
Theresa: We don’t know anything. Biz: Yeah. And also—
biz
And memories are funny thing. [Laughs.]
theresa
That’s right! That’s right. But yeah! I mean, if I was anxious to get it at 12… y’know, I just wonder what that will be like. To be ready to, like, go through puberty and see your friends going through puberty and to kind of know, like… this part of—like, there will be parts of puberty that she’ll go through! But this part of puberty she will not.
biz
Right.
theresa
So—yeah! I just… I dunno.
biz
Yeah. I think—I’ll—I’ll skip ahead. I think when I think about—I have shared this story. It’s one of my all-time favorite stories. And it’s—y’know—we had already talked to Katy Belle about… getting a period and all that. Just in general, ‘cause she was so concerned about making sure she would never get pregnant. [Laughs.] I was like—well, this is how it works and this is your period, you menstruate and blehleblhel, eggs and all this kind of stuff. And, y’know, we did—like, every couple of months that would come up and we’d talk about it. And then I guess she was probably, like, maybe seven? Six or seven. And… she… comes over. Stefan and I are sitting at the table, and she… brings it up again. And I say, yeah. Basically, for several days, as I shed my eggs and the lining removes, y’know, I bleed! And she was like… y’know, what do you use? And I said, well, y’know, I use this or this. You can use pads or you can use tampons. There’s also a variety of other options now. But these are the two that I choose from. And then she turns to Stefan and she says, “What do you use?” And he says—I don’t get my period. I don’t get a period. And she like—there’s this, like, pause? And she goes—“That’s not fair!” [Theresa laughs.] And I was like, [yelling] “You are right!” And like Stefan’s like—yup! You’re right! Not fair! And so—for her… I don’t know. She—she has got friends that have already started already. And… just as a shoutout to the whole, like—you’re—when you said I—I get to be a woman; I look up to these older—y’know, young women and I look up. When I am at the school looking? At these kids? [Theresa laughs.] I am like—ohhh, puberty is a beast! I mean, like… yes. Y’know. Even pre- and post-, y’know, there’s always like one or two kids who like luck out. [Laughs.] Like, everything falls into place. No skin issues. Like, nothing. Right? And you’re like—God bless you. That is [though laughter] so nice. Everybody else is a variety of shapes with shapes in a variety of places and like—acne and like… like—I know that the onset of one’s period brings much change. And hormonal change. And… like… I think…
theresa
There’s also, like, clothing I think makes a really big difference? And sometimes the clothing options that are available to our kids at that age? Are not things that they have figured out how to wear yet. And—yeah.
biz
So on the—eh side, I’m a little like… ugh, this is just gonna be a thing.
theresa
It’s just awkward! Yeah!
biz
Now—and now you have to deal with this every month.
theresa
Yeah!
biz
Basically almost—it’s gonna feel like forever. So… great. And I can’t know if there’s gonna be complications or issues. I won’t know if you’re, like, a big—y’know, will it affect you emotionally a lot? Will it? Y’know, ‘cause we don’t really talk about… y’know, people who suffer from severe cramping! People who… suffer from extreme mood swings. Right? Or are you just gonna float through it? I will say, on the plus side—man, oh man. She is lucky because there are a lot more options. I mean—I am from the Are You There, God? It’s Me, Margaret generation. Y’know. We all read that book and we’re like, we’re gonna get our periods!!! And like, all this stuff. But that’s, like, where you were still using—
theresa
The belt?
biz
The belt! And like—luckily, the belt had just ended when I finally started. But like—I mean—a belt and shit?
theresa
Yeah. I know. I know.
biz
And like—yeah. She just is gonna have more options, which is great! I remember having very few options and I remember, like, getting my period at school and going to the nurse and all them having was a tampon and I wasn’t using tampons yet? And just being like—feeling like really insecure about, like… well I don’t use—like, feeling some sort of shame—
crosstalk
Biz: —about still using—no, it wasn’t my first. But, like—I just got it. Yeah. Theresa: Your first period and you’re expected to—oh, oh, oh, oh. One time you got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
biz
Y’know. I was always more comfortable with that than tampons and so like… I just… I remember thinking—oh, those are the moments that I hate.
theresa
Yeah.
biz
That our kids have to go through. Right? With strangers? So… we’ve both just shared about our kids. Right? I also—we also have… kids that identify as boys currently. And… I don’t think that they should be out of the loop with this at all. So they are— [Theresa laughs.] —fully aware of what menstruation is in our house. But there are, y’know—whether it be… you have to? [Laughs.] Or choice or whatever. Y’know, you texted me the question of—do you let your toddler see you put in a tampon? And things like that. I can safely say—[screaming] God, no! [Laughs.]
theresa
Wow, yeah!
biz
I mean… Ellis has certainly been aware that I’m on my period when he was like really little, and maybe even like that whole phase—‘cause they wanna come into the bathroom with you and I’m like—
crosstalk
Biz: Well, there it is and they’ll be like, what is that? Theresa: Great! They’re in the bathroom with you! Yeah!
biz
And I’m like, it’s my period! I’m menstruating! This is why! Right? What’s over there? But I do remember one of my best friends—her mom was a therapist and very cool. Uh—I remember they had a built-in speaker system.
theresa
[Indignantly] Who is this friend?
crosstalk
Biz: And they have like— Theresa: [Laughs.] No, I’m just kidding. [Laughs.]
biz
The parents were very, like, comfortable, like, walking around, like, naked or half-naked and stuff. You know. Where you’re like—what is happening?
crosstalk
Biz: Uh— Theresa: That’s—
theresa
That’s one step further than what—my family was still Catholic. [Laughs.]
biz
Yeah, yeah. They weren’t. Uh— [Laughs.] They were both therapists. Wooo! I remember, she had me come into the bathroom with her ‘cause we were talking about my friend’s birthday? And she was like—
theresa
Wait, how old were you?
biz
I was—so like—
crosstalk
Biz: You know, I had not started my period. So I was a kid! I was like, probably 11 or 12. But— Theresa: Recently? Oh, okay. You were a kid. Okay. Yes.
biz
And she was like—we’re talking about Allison’s birthday and I’m like, well, this is weird! So I’m just kind of like standing over by the sink. Right? And she goes—hey, will you pass me a plug? And I was like—I did not know what was happening. And I was like—what? And she was—and she was like, oh, sorry. A tampon! And I—but I remember being like—a plug?! Like, I passed it to her and then I kinda turned around and was like, we’re—you know—
crosstalk
Theresa: Yeah. Do I look?! Do I not look? Yeah! Yeah! Biz: Talking—I don’t know! I—never look!!!
biz
I just remember… that… like, that feeling of… there was nothing shameful about that? There was nothing awful. I liked how honest and comfortable she was. I remember thinking, okay. This is… this is a different way. I mean, it’s not like my mom was like “period bad!” We just—I don’t remember having a lot of conversations about it. Right? I mean, she obviously talked to us about it. Right? But we didn’t have, like, a period party. Right? [Laughs.] Right? But I remember just thinking—oh, that’s another lens! That I’m getting to see things through. I will probably not ever pull a friend of Katy Belle’s into the bathroom with me to talk about something? But still I was like—huh. Interesting.
theresa
Wait—it was your friend’s mom?
biz
Yeah.
theresa
Who pulled you in? Oh. I thought it was your friend.
biz
No. Nope.
theresa
Okay.
biz
I know. It’s a little weird—
crosstalk
Theresa: Sorry. No. Okay. But you were—you were all girls. That’s the thing. A lot of—that’s—yeah! Biz: —but like—I—there was nothing weird about it. Yeah! It’s all girls! Right! Yeah!
theresa
So it just depends what kind of house you grow up in! ‘Cause like—my friends and I used to use the bathroom in front of each other all the time. Like, to the point where those same friends—who I’m still friends with?—we would still pee in front of each other now if—if it came to it? Like, it’s just not—
crosstalk
Theresa: You know what I mean? Biz: A big deal! Yeah.
theresa
But then like I wouldn’t do that with you. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, friends as adults? No!
crosstalk
Theresa: I don’t know. It’s weird! You suddenly start to do. But—okay. Biz: Yeah! You don’t—it’s not a thing that you suddenly add in your life. [Laughs.] With a friend.
theresa
So—but the tampon thing is interesting because—like, obviously pads—you can kinda do it without noticing or if your kid does notice you can, like, say what it’s for or whatever. But tampons are, like—it does seem much more intimate? To have somebody see that! And so I’ve definitely had… times with my kids where they have seen me do it. And I made the conscious choice, like—well—this—they’re seeing me use the bathroom. They can see me do this. There’s—this is just part of my life that is okay for them to know about. And… I think it pretty much always sparks a conversation? [Laughs.]
biz
Oh, yeah! [Inaudible.]
theresa
And at this point now? It’s like, kind of old news. So it’s a little bit like—oh, you have that thing right now? Like, okay.
biz
Yeah.
theresa
But I have also found myself… not allowing them to be in there when I’m doing that, just because sometimes I’m like—dude, I just want privacy right now. And also… like, I think we had a caller who said something like this a while back and it really resonated with me? Like, sometimes you just don’t wanna have the conversation! Like, sometimes you’re just not in the mood! But I, like, want my kids to know about it.
crosstalk
Biz: Yeah. I want my kids to know about it. Theresa: And I want them to know about it—
theresa
—so well that there isn’t a time where it’s new information to them.
crosstalk
Theresa: Like—I know I won’t— Biz: Yeah. I—
theresa
—necessarily be able to do that with everything? Like, it’s just—reminds me of the time that my sister was like—I’ve talked about this a long time ago. That my sister was like, eight, and my mom was about to give birth to our baby brother. And my mom thought my sister remembered how babies are born, but she didn’t. She thought it was gonna come out some other way, like, through the belly button or something. [Biz laughs.] And had a total panic attack meltdown when she found out that the baby comes through the vagina. And this was not [though laughter] anyone’s fault or something that anyone tried to hide from her! It was just—they hadn’t talked about it in a couple years and kid brains are weird! They’re busy learning a lot of things! [Laughs.]
biz
Which is why you gotta repeat it! But that’s a really good point! I would not want either of my children to have a moment related to menstruation where they’re like—ah! I don’t want, like, the Carrie moment.
crosstalk
Biz: [Screaming] Plug it up! Carrie! Theresa: Exactly! Like, what?! Yeah!
biz
I mean, that was a nightmare. You know. Uh, not talking about things doesn’t prevent anything from happening! Still gonna happen! Just last note—and probably the one we are not trained to think about but we should be. If the apocalypse comes—and I’ve said this before— [Theresa laughs.] And/or your earthquake emergency pack or your flood emer—wherever you are, something’s gonna get ya. Stock up! No one tells you to put, like, that in your emergency kit! Your medication? Sure. Right? But like—that tampons—
crosstalk
Theresa: Wait a minute—emergency kids are for— Biz: And pads—
theresa
—women, too? You’re telling me they’re for women, too?!
biz
Yeah! You can do things for women— [Theresa laughs.] If you want! Yeah!
theresa
Oh, I thought it was just—
biz
For men?
theresa
Yeah.
crosstalk
Biz: So you don’t need to worry about— Theresa: Sort of like a—yeah. [Laughs.]
biz
—food for babies? Uh, like, what you might need for your period? What a baby might need, like diapers or formula or any of that?
theresa
Oh, that just sounds too complicated!
biz
You just need a deck of cards and a six-pack of beer! Wooooo!
theresa
And your Viagra!
biz
Oh, yeah! [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] Which is covered by insurance! [Yelling] Fuck that! [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] Get a—get into a period rage and go protest!
music
“Ones and Zeroes” by “Awesome.” Steady, driving electric guitar with drum and woodwinds. [Music fades out.]
theresa
Music: Laid-back acoustic guitar plays in the background. One Bad Mother is supported in part by Blinkist! It’s hard to find the time to sit down to read and learn more. When you don’t have free time, you can’t read or work on personal development.
biz
Blinkist takes the best key takeaways from the need-to-know information from thousands of nonfiction books and condenses them down into just 15 minutes that you can read or listen to on your phone, tablet, or computer. Blinkist has the latest titles from bestseller lists as well as the classic nonfiction titles you always meant to read but never had time to. And that is—quite literally—one of my favorite reasons for using Blinkist.
theresa
With Blinkist you get unlimited access to read or listen to a massive library of condensed nonfiction books. All the books you want, and all for one low price. Right now, for a limited time, Blinkist has a special offer just for our audience—so go to Blinkist.com/badmother. Try it free for seven days, and save 20% off your new subscription. That’s Blinkist—spelled Blinkist.com/badmother to start your free, seven-day trial. [Music fades out.]
theresa
Hey, you know what it’s time for! This week’s genius and fails! This is the part of the show where we share our genius moment of the week, as well as our failures, and feel better about ourselves by hearing yours. You can share some of your own by calling 206-350-9485. That’s 206-350-9485.
biz
Genius fail time, Theresa. Genius me!
clip
[Dramatic, swelling music in background.] Biz: Wow! Oh my God! Oh my God! I saw what you did! Oh my God! I’m paying attention! Wow! You, mom, are a genius. Oh my God, that’s fucking genius! [Biz and Theresa affirm and mirror each other as they discuss their respective genius moments.]
theresa
Okay. My genius really was the Legoland trip day? Because what I didn’t mention in the intro is that Jesse was with us but really not feeling well? Like, he had a headache and he was like—really nice. Really trying to do his best? But it was like he could do what I asked him to do and that was it. Like I was—it was really me, and I really had to mom up for this. And… I totally did! Like, I just totally did. I had a good attitude the whole time. I didn’t, like, go sour. I didn’t, like… yell at anyone. I just was like—every time I started to feel, like, anxious or agitated? I was like… reminder: we’re just at Legoland. Like, we’re just doing what we can do.
crosstalk
Biz: Oh, that’s good. Yeah! Theresa: You know? Like, we’re just—
theresa
Nothing is fucked.
biz
Yeah!
theresa
Everything is just what it is? And we’re just gonna make our way. [Biz laughs.] As best we can. And it really was fine! And so I feel really proud of myself for that day.
biz
That is a good job!
theresa
Thank you.
biz
Really good! So… there is some international travel in our future.
theresa
Woo!
biz
Including children. And so… they need passports! Right? ‘Cause—you gotta remember those things! And so I finally, this weekend, got all the paperwork together. And… I was very—uh—felt like a genius ‘cause I had it all filled out for each kid and I had all of the, like, documents and paperwork I needed at the ready and easy to access. And I put it all in my nice little folder all ready to go. [Singing] I felt so good about that! [Cheering] Woo!
theresa
You’re amazing.
biz
Thank you!
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Hello, One Bad Mother! I am calling with a genius! My in-laws are in town because it’s Christmas Eve, and my sister-in-law is one of my least favorite people. [Biz laughs.] And so three-weeks-ago-me decided that it was going to be a really good idea to get a massage today. So I am currently sitting in the parking lot of the massage place after having a wonderful massage and I’m about to drive home and listen to your show on the way! So many geniuses. Get to have a massage. Get to listen to your show. Get to get away from my sister-in-law. I hope that everyone is having a wonderful holiday season? [Biz laughs.] And I… you’re all doing a great job and today, so am I.
biz
Yes!
theresa
So good!
biz
This is soooo good. This is—this is self-care! Whether it was a massage or whatever, what you did was you set some boundaries for yourself? So you had a place? That was outside of… y’know… a—something that you knew would bring you displeasure. Or stress. You can’t avoid that! ‘Cause it’s a holiday! But you can do some boundaries. Make sure you’ve got a little time set for yourself, whether it’s a walk or a massa—like, whatever. Sitting. Roaming at Target. It doesn’t matter! Those boundaries? That is some good geniusing there!
theresa
Good job!
biz
Really good job! Failures.
clip
[Dramatic orchestral music plays in the background.] Theresa: [In a voice akin to the Wicked Witch of the West] Fail. Fail. Fail. FAIL! [Timpani with foot pedal engaged for humorous effect.] Biz: [Calmly] You suck! [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective failures of the week.]
biz
Fail me, Theresa!
theresa
Okay. So… [sighs.] Ruining birthdays. It was fine. He had a good birthday. But on Curtis’s actual birthday—which was a weekday—he went to school and was having his birthday at school with his friends and that was all fine. At home, I was busy putting together a very modest play kitchen for him because his wish—above all wishes—was an oven. A fake oven that he could put something into. Um… and I was so focused on the details of the day—he needed, like, a poster for school and he needed some, y’know, a little treat for with his friends and they wanted me to fill something out and then—y’know—just thinking about, like, what’s he gonna want for dinner tonight. And then just other details for everybody else that day, like a normal weekday would be. And then… can I get this little kitchen together in time so that when he comes home, it’s there. That’s his main present. Well, I realize—I just, like, hadn’t gotten a cake. Like, we talked about getting cake? But we didn’t. We didn’t do it! And so… I didn’t really have time to go back out and get a whole cake! Like, I just didn’t. And so— [Laughs.] I ordered one on a—uh—grocery delivery service. [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.]
biz
Yeah?
theresa
And—it was the only one available in the grocery delivery service. So it was like a tall cake with fruit on it. Really for grownups. It was not for birthdays. And… it made it. And it was totally, like, toppled over from the delivery process. Which I didn’t notice—like—I mean, there wasn’t gonna be time anyway for me to exchange the cake? But I had to sort of like use my hands to put the cake back on top of itself? And then try to clean it up? And… y’know, we had it to sing the c—y’know, for the song and everything. And that was great. But like—no one ate it? Like—no one ate it! So… because it’s like not really a kid cake! Like, it wasn’t really—and they weren’t—nobody was grumpy about it. Nobody complained, which was fine. But I just saw this cake thing—like, it was just—it was so stupid. Like, it was one of those things where I was like, I totally wish there would’ve been a way for me to not have bought this cake.
biz
Yeah! Oh, it’s like a—it’s like where cake parenting failed you.
theresa
It—is where cake parenting failed me. Thank you. Yes.
biz
I am so sorry.
theresa
Yeah. Thanks.
biz
So! There I am, feeling all smug about my paperwork success for passports. Our library—doot doot, doo dooo!—has a passport processing facility and they will do it all for you. Pictures; they’ll mail it all in; the whole nine yards. I love you, libraries!
theresa
So far, so good!
biz
Right? And— [Theresa laughs.] —you have to have both parents there for it. So gotta be, like, a Saturday. And I call and leave a message ‘cause—who’s getting their passports done? The library calls back and leaves me a message, and it cuts off! But what I hear is—this is the passport service. Space available. Those were the words that I heard. And I said, great! Let’s go to the library! [Theresa laughs.] People don’t really wanna go to the library? That particular moment on a Saturday morning? But I’m like, let’s do it. I gotta be somewhere later. Let’s go. We get up there. We march to the door. And the woman’s like—hey, has people already in there. And she was like—I was like, hi! We left a message—you said that you—we could—we could come in around 11? And she’s like—whoooo are you? And I was like, uh, and she goes—Lawrence. Yeah. I left a message saying we don’t have appointments for like three weeks. [Laughs.]
theresa
Oh my god.
biz
And I was like, wow. All I heard was, “appointments” and “available.” Not “appointment not available.” So we’re now not going to be doing our appointment until, like, March 7th. And I am… like—it was one of those things where I’m like—I just didn’t—wish I didn’t have this audience? With me? To see this?
theresa
To see this. And be part of it with you.
biz
I know!
theresa
Yeah.
biz
Yeah.
crosstalk
Theresa: Got it all together. Got everyone there. I’m so sorry. Biz: I did.
biz
Yeah. Oh well.
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Hi, One Bad Mother! I am calling with a fail. I’ve been looking for my car keys for over 24 hours. I’ve had a lot of places that I needed to be and I have been late and I ended up using my husband’s key. Um… but! I found them! They were in my car. Not only were they in my car, they were underneath my toddler’s carseat. [Biz laughs.] Don’t ask me why. Or how. But that’s where they were! So… that seems like a failure. You guys are doing a great job! Thanks for the hotline. Bye.
biz
Oh, yeah!
theresa
Yeah.
biz
That’s horrible!
theresa
Yeah!
biz
Do you know how those keys got there? Magic! [Theresa laughs.] Sinister dark magic! [Laughs.]
crosstalk
Theresa: Were you on your period? [Laughs.] Biz: Were you on your period? Yeah, that— [Laughs.] Well, you’re doing a horrible job! [Laughs.] That’s what you get for trying to drive a car and have children. Ha! Oh well.
music
“Mom Song” by Adira Amram. Mellow piano music with lyrics. You are the greatest mom I’ve ever known I love you, I love you When I have a problem, I call you on the phone I love you, I love you [Music fades out.]
biz
Music: Jazzy piano music plays in background. One Bad Mother is supported in part by Third Love.
theresa
Third Love uses the measurements of millions of people to design bras in over 80 sizes, with all-day comfort and support. So Third Love helps you identify your breast size and shape in about 60 seconds by using their online quiz. Their bras are designed to be super comfortable; they have straps that won’t slip; tagless labels. They are lightweight and they use super-thin memory foam cups. So another nice thing about Third Love is you have 60 days to wear your new bra—you can wash it, put it to the test—if you don’t love it, you just return it to Third Love. They will wash it and donate it to someone in need. I love my new Third Love bra! It is comfortable, supportive, and it’s very pretty!
biz
Yeah. They are pretty! Third Love knows there’s a perfect bra for everyone, so right now they are offering our listeners 15% off your first order. Go to ThirdLove.com/mother now to find your perfect-fitting bra and get 15% off your first purchase! That’s ThirdLove.com/mother for 15% off today.
biz
Hey, Theresa! Let’s call someone today! [Short music clip of cheerful, up-tempo guitar with choral voices plays.]
biz
Theresa! This week, we are talking to Maureen Theresa Smith—your aunt!— [Theresa laughs.] —who is also the author of Your Moontime Magic and First Moon. She offers visionary coaching to girls and women in times of transition, as well as facilitating regular girls’ circles for tweens. She lives in Fairfax, California—welcome, Maureen!
maureen theresa smith
Thank you! Hello!
crosstalk
Biz: Wooooo! Theresa: Yay, yay, yay! [Laughs.]
crosstalk
Biz: Shall I leave? Just let you guys catch up? [Laughs.] Theresa: Yeah! Just let us hang out! Yeah. [Laughs.] [Maureen laughs.]
theresa
No, I’ll try to be normal. [All laugh.]
maureen
Good! [Laughs.]
biz
So before we get started—can you tell us—for all of us who are not related to you—who lives in your house?
maureen
Sure. So I live in my house with my 10-year-old daughter Chloe and I have a 26-year-old son Kai who visits. He’s kind of a nomad on the road with a company right now. Um, and then I have a little 3-1/2-month-old teacup Maltipoo and her name is Chanel. And um— [Theresa laughs.] I’m hoping she’ll behave for us during this interview. [Laughs.]
crosstalk
Theresa: It’s okay if she doesn’t. [Laughs.] Biz: Oh, Chanel! [Laughs.] Chanel! Wooo!
crosstalk
Biz: I love it! Maureen: Chanel! [Laughs.] Yes.
biz
Alright! Well let’s—let’s get in to… the book. I guess I wanna start with—what inspired you to write this book, and to talk to us a little bit about the title!
maureen
Oh, sure! So actually, um, Theresa was part of my inspiration to write this book. Originally I wrote it as a gift for my nieces, and I really wanted them to feel celebrated and supported as they went through this whole time of adolescence and puberty. In my own experience, I—y’know—my experience wasn’t so great and so I think it originally came from looking at my nieces and thinking about what I wished I could’ve had? Um, and the more I learned about… traditions from cultures around the world and the types of… celebrations that young women were having around getting their periods, I thought—wow! That is so cool. I wanted to be able to share that with them. So that’s where this originally came from. And the title—I always liked calling it “moontime” and I’m—I’m not even sure I remember where that came from? For me? But the “magic” component was that—y’know—when you think about it? Every month, if you’re a menstruator, you bleed, but that blood isn’t coming from a wound or an injury. And so I thought, well that’s kind of magic and remarkable. [Laughs.] You know, I kind of write in the book about… as you tune in to learn about your cycles and how to best take care of yourself and nurture yourself in your own creativity, you can use that throughout your life. So even though each month with your period your body’s preparing for a possible pregnancy? If you’re not ready for a pregnancy or don’t want that, but you can tune into those cycles and use them to bring other creations to life.
biz
Uh—like what?! [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] Like—what else can I create? [Laughs.]
maureen
Like—like—for example, like this podcast! Like, something that you feel inspired about and you have a dream about it but you don’t know how that’s gonna happen. And so some of like the self-care tools and exercises and tips throughout the book are like a roadmap to help you but it’s all very much, like, based in your own physicality. And your own cycle.
biz
Well—oh, this is a treat and we’ll get into this in—in just a second. But— [Maureen laughs.] I wanna—I wanna actually—you—you talked about how different cultures celebrated it. But there’s also—we also talked at the beginning about how there are still so many taboos—and there are still cultures that do not—they punish for it! Y’know—
maureen
Absolutely.
biz
And isolate people for it. So I guess—I mean—I—y’know. This is a silly question with an obvious answer, but I—we’d still like to hear it from you based on everything that you were researching. And that is: why is it important that we change these taboos about talking about our periods? And menstruation?
maureen
Periods have long been associated with something negative and surrounded by stigma and—as you know—we—we learn to kind of hide our period or our period product and think it might be something gross or embarrassing. But then having that view—especially as a young person—and something that is a natural process that your body’s going through, you can start feeling grossed out about your own body. And then that can really impact your own self-perception. And like, you were talking about today there’s still places in the world where… menstruators will stop going to school when they get their periods because they don’t have either proper access to menstrual hygiene products or because they’re—they’re shamed or both. So I think, y’know, it’s so important to educate young people about their periods and educating them that it’s their body’s natural function. How to properly care for themselves and understand how their physical changes can also affect their menstrual and emotional health. When a young person has that information and understanding it provides them with agency and access so they can make much more informed choices about their health and their decisions in every aspect of their life. I mean… if you go to the doctor and you have something wrong but you’re embarrassed to talk about it, how are you going to get the help? So I—I think it’s just so important that there’s just honest conversations, um, about a process that’s very natural and normal.
biz
[Laughs.] I love you. Uh— [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] I’m like, noooo! Plug your ears, everybody! Ahhhh!
crosstalk
Biz: It’s lady talk! Maureen: Totally! Totally! Totally. Totally.
biz
Uh, so—well—okay. There are lots of parents who do celebrate when their child gets their first period. I’ve seen the, like, period box party? All that stuff. But—what if you’ve got a child who is… really embarrassed about it? Or what if the child’s like, [high-pitched voice] I want a party! [Laughs.] And the parent’s really embarrassed about it? Not—not looking at myself. What are— [Maureen laughs.] —what are some other ways… parents can celebrate and support their children?
maureen
Oh, yeah. And it—and actually, Biz, like in my experience? Most young people will go through a phase of feeling super embarrassed about it. Not wanting to talk about it. I mean, in adolescence, you know, your body’s going through so many changes that are out of your control? That I—I just think it’s so much to process to have to have someone else—to celebrating it would—before you’re reading? Can be really intrusive and not a good thing. So, um— [Biz and Theresa laugh.] —You know, I think as parents, the best thing is that you’re just supportive to your child’s needs. And wants. And… the—y’know—you can read this book so that you kind of have a check on your own, um… ideas about menstruation and you can just reflect on, y’know—is this something positive in your experience or not? And how can you—how can you kind of make an internal adjustment so that you can be there with positivity for your child. And just—as long as you’re there with the information? That your child needs? And can be supportive? I think that’s the best thing you can do. Um, and they might come—you know, you can give them the book and you can say, would you like to do something? Um, we don’t even have to talk about your period! You know. But there’s—but there’s just a way in your own attitude that you’re giving your child permission and the message that this is good and natural.
biz
Okay. So… building, like—like, the morning my child wakes up— [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] —after we know she’s gotten her period. She wakes up in a room with, like… like, made out of boxes of tampons and pads— [Theresa laughs.] —like the shape of, like— [Maureen laughs.] —I don’t know. A big “P” or something. I will make sure that we don’t do that. Um— [Laughs.] Just plug it up, baby girl! Anyway. So— [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] I’m not gonna ever write a book about periods. Okay! Uh—so—
maureen
One thing. One thing, Biz, I thought about is that, um, one of my friend’s daughters was really similar. She did not want—she didn’t wanna talk about it. [Biz laughs.] And of her own accord, she ended up making this journal and she—and she labeled it “The Totally Private, Secret Journal” between her and her mom and she said in the journal, like, if you ever talk to me— [Biz laughs.] —about what is in here out loud? I will never talk to you again. [Biz and Theresa laugh wildly.] And—but she would—she would write questions in this journal and leave it for her mom and her mom would answer. And she would draw pictures. She would draw pictures of, y’know, growing hair in new places and say what is this and when will it end? And, y’know, it was awesome. But she just made it very clear that this is the only place we can talk about this. And that really worked well for them.
crosstalk
Biz: Oh my god. I love that so much! I… Theresa: I love that. Yeah! Yeah! It’s great!
biz
—really love that so much.
theresa
It’s a good reminder that there are lots of ways to communicate and keep that relationship strong?
biz
Well, and lots of ways to—to know that it’s safe to ask for the different ways! I—y’know. Side—side story derailing. Uh, when it’s tax time and Stefan tells me how much I have to [though laughter] give him—
crosstalk
Biz: —for the taxes— Theresa: He has to write it down for you?
biz
Last year I just said—you know what? I don’t want you to utter the words. Just write it on a note— [Maureen laughs.] —and put it somewhere in the house— [Theresa laughs.] —where I’m gonna definitely find it. And it was like—on the cat litter box? And I was like—uh! There you go. I saw it. I can handle this. I can deal with my feelings surrounding this. And then I can give you my share. Anyhoo! I want to move on to this next, uh, question, which is—the book so deeply connects girl and womanhood with menstruation in a way that’s really nice for… cisgender-identifying girls. But there are—are there activities or words of inspirations you can find applicable to kids who menstruate but don’t feel like girls? And/or girls who aren’t yet menstruating, or those who will never menstruate?
maureen
I am so glad you brought that up. Absolutely! I mean, one of the things that I’ve been really encouraged about is I kind of went back to this book from the original First Moon is just the amount of information and actually inclusive and viable products and resources for all menstruators or non-menstruators. And a lot of this is coming about through the whole menstrual movement. Thanks to period warriors such as Nadia Okomoto and Jennifer Weiss-Wolf. The entire movement is very much focused on inclusivity. And it wouldn’t be a movement without these voices from people that won’t menstruate or people that don’t—that are—aren’t—um, not wanting to. Um, and so I’m really happy to see that list of organizations that’s raising awareness and making sure that there’s access to menstrual products, um, available. And i guess i would just really say that you're not alone? And this time of adolescence and puberty is a huge transition time for everyone going through it and the most important thing is that you find people that can support you and connect with. Um, and… that you’re not alone in feeling discomfort around this time of puberty!
maureen
Comfort. [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] Let’s—let’s wrap up on comfort. One of the great things about the book is there are lots of activities and exercises and suggestions that you make. And you’ve—you’ve referenced them. But I—I would love to actually… talk a little bit about… like, why… you included these and… y’know, if there is one that—in particular stands out or that you really like for you. I—I—obviously, that girl with the journal—oh my god! That should just be like the front page of every book ever. [Theresa and Maureen laugh.] Uh—I’m like, you’re about to get your period! You can communicate with your parent through a book! That’s also good for people who may not have, like—like daughters who live with, you know, only dads? Right? Like—I love that. Anyhoo.
promo
I mean, tech—texting, if your kids are old enough to have their own phone, can also be, like—I—like, no shame there! If that’s a more comfortable way to communicate and lines of communication are open.
maureen
Ours used to be in a car ride where you can’t make eye contact ‘cause you’re driving. Alright! [Theresa laughs.] Put it away! Back to—outside of those suggestions— [Biz and Theresa laugh.] —can you talk to us a little bit about why you included certain exercises and—and different projects, uh, and crafts and things like that?
maureen
Yeah! Well I think—like—first of all, I’m—I can be pretty crafty and I think young people and adolescents like doing something crafty and kind of tangible with your hands. Really, um, gives you much more of the experience. You know. It just makes you much more engaged with the changes that are going on with you if you have a chance to write about it or make some art with it. And I talk a lot throughout the book about these—you know, you’re changing hormones. Which also can mean changing moods and strong feelings where you weren’t used to having before! And I think that these moods are the stuff that great art is made from. And so what I’m doing in the book is—by providing these kind of self-care tips and exercises—is introducing different exercises that act as kind of a road map? To help young people through this time of transition through kind of processing these changes in a really supportive way? And that they can use these same exercises throughout their lives and they’re great for no matter how old you are. Um, one of my favorites, of course—and I’m sure you guys know of this or have done it, but just, uh, vision mapping! Like I love creating vision boards. And um, sharing those with friends or getting together with a group of friends and making these visions together. We just did that after the new year. So that’s one of the exercises and that kind of goes along with, y’know, each month your body might be preparing for a possible pregnancy, but instead you can use that time to bring other new things to life. And so that’s where, like, the visioning comes into play.
biz
I love it. I think that’s so… it—it’s just—it really is honestly a different way to think about it for many of us. [Laughs.] As opposed to it being a hindrance—
maureen
Right!
biz
—or a time that limits you. To instead… change the narrative to it being a time to… celebrate and create. I mean, honestly, I—it’s just… I don’t know if I’ll ever connect 100% that way. But it’s—it’s—I—I understand it and I get it.
theresa
I just wanted to add that I—I think one other thing that I love about this book that we haven’t really had a chance to touch on? Is just the informational aspect of the book? And we talked about, y’know, keeping those lines of communication open between parents and kids and how important that is to have that? But I also think sometimes kids just wanna get their information from their own— [Biz laughs.] —like, from somewhere else! Like, sometimes they don’t want to sit down and get—and get every question answered by their parent. And so I just—I think this book is so incredibly helpful because it really is like a how-to book? But it has all of this extra, positive, wonderful… it’s not just informational. It puts everything in this, like, really comforting, warm… positive light. So, y’know, it talks about everything from like, what’s actually going on in your body when you’re menstruating? To, like, what all the different products are that are out there and explains how they work? And, um… I just think—I find that to be such a helpful resource. That—y’know—you could just have on your kid’s bookshelf in their room that they can pull out— [Biz laughs.] —whenever they want! You know!
biz
Yeah! Just slide that in next to Nancy Drew!
theresa
Yeah! [Laughs.]
biz
Uh—actually, I do have one last question. Uh, you… discuss period poverty. In the book.
maureen
Yes.
biz
And I’d like you to talk about what that is and how… people… can help those who are living in period poverty.
maureen
Absolutely. So, many places around the world, um, people still do not have access to period products. And for a lot of people, that means they can’t afford to purchase them. One of the women that I talk about in my book—and I mentioned earlier Nadia Okomoto—she started a company—a nonprofit—a few years ago called Period.org, and she had experienced some level of homelessness as a teen. And she realized that one of the biggest challenges of the women that she lived with were access to period products ‘cause if you don’t have any money—or you just have a little bit—are you gonna spend it on food or you gonna buy it on—y’know—spend it on pads? And so these women were using, y’know, like, cardboard from cardboard boxes. Or newspaper. You know. And that can so affect their health and their hygiene. And… just—their self—self-worth and feelings and so, y’know, making sure that all people have access to… menstrual hygiene products? And that are affordable? Is really important.
biz
Yes. Isn’t that, like—
maureen
And how can you help? There are so many organizations. Um, and I list these resources both on my website—www.YourMoontimeMagic.com—or in the book, but some of them are Period.org and they have 450 chapters across the US. And the Pads Project is another one, and there are several others. So—um—but you can be in touch with those organizations and do fundraisers yourself or give money there. And just raise awareness in your own community, uh, if you’re—if you’re able to—and you can—you know, look up these organizations to get more information about how to do that.
biz
Well, we’ll make sure that we also include those links in our show notes for this episode, as well as, uh, a link to your website and to the different activists that you have spoken of so people can find out more. It’s so obvious— [Theresa laughs.] —that Theresa and you are family. [Laughs.] I love it. [Maureen laughs.] Just the—empath and just—I mean, it’s—you guys are all doing a really good job trying to help. And… thank you so much for writing this book and for joining us!
maureen
Thank you so much! You two are a complete inspiration. You keep me smiling all week when I’m hearing you. And I really appreciate getting to share about this book on your program with your amazing listeners and community. Thank you.
biz
Thank you!
theresa
Thanks, Mo!
biz
And I definitely know Theresa will talk to you soon. [Laughs.]
theresa
Yeah. [Laughs.] [Maureen laughs.]
biz
Buh-bye!
theresa
Bye!
maureen
Okay! Loves! Bye!
music
“Telephone,” by “Awesome.” Down-tempo guitar and falsetto singing. Brainwaves send a message: Pick up the phone (When you, I call) Arm is moving now, no longer stone (When you, I call) Hand reaches out with a will of its own (When you, I call) [Music fades out.]
promo
[A quick, energetic drumroll.] Music: Exciting techno music plays. Jarrett Hill: Hey, I’m Jarrett Hill, co-host of the brand-new Maximum Fun podcast, FANTI! Tre’vell Anderson: And Tre’vell Anderson. I’m the other, more fabulous, co-host, and the reason you really should be tuning in! Jarrett: I feel the nausea rising. Tre’vell: To be FANTI is to be a big fan of something, but also have some challenging or “anti” feelings toward it. Jarrett: Kind of like Kanye. Tre’vell: We’re all fans of Kanye. He’s a musical genius, but, like, you know… Jarrett: He thinks slavery’s a choice. Tre’vell: Or, like, The Real Housewives of Atlanta. Like, I love the drama, but do I wanna see black women fighting each other on screen? [Singing.] Hell, to the naaaaw. To the naw-naw-naaaw. Jarrett: We’re tackling all of those complex and complicated conversations about the people, places, and things that we love. Tre’vell: Even though they may not love us back. Jarrett: FANTI! Maximum Fun! Podcast! Tre’vell: Yeah! [Music fades out.]
promo
Music: Uplifting, orchestral music plays. Alden Ford: Hey everyone, Alden Ford here with the cast of Mission to Zyxx! The Cast: [Speaking out of sync and staggered.] Hello! Alden: Our fourth season premiers on February 19th, and for those of you who aren’t familiar with the show, we decided to ask one of our characters to give you a quick recap of what’s happened so far. Say hello to the Clone Trooper AJ! AJ: Who are you people? What’s happening? Alden: Okay. AJ, put your gun down. Uh, A—AJ—can you just tell us what’s happened in the Zyxx quadrant in the last couple season? AJ: So—well, we destroyed the emperor. Alden: Oh, really? Okay. Great. AJ: Yeah. I mean, I think—I think so. We knocked him into a chasm. Mister Robot Man and Bartoo Strip crashed through a window? And Dar and Baby Horse and I took out like a bunch of bad guys? Pop fulfilled his destiny! And the lizard was there, too! Alden: Okay. Great. I guess I’m sort of asking what the show is like. AJ: Oh, you mean, like, it’s an improvised, serialized, workplace-based opera featuring brilliant sound design, incredible guest stars, and an epic, hilarious tale of fresh versus whack? Alden: Oh, yeah! Wow! Where did you come up with that? AJ: Jesse Thorn told me to write that on my palm. Alden: Okay. Alright. Well, ju—Mission to Zyxx, season 4, debuts on February 19th on Maximum Fun. Check it out! [Music ends with a triumphant chorus of trumpets.]
biz
Information! Information!
theresa
Yeah!
biz
The more you know? The less people can tell you that you’re a witch. [Both laugh.] I really—I really like this. I’m—I—I—it is. It’s just all the right information. And, y’know— [sighs.] Look! Yeah! Some of us are not programmed to think that we are magical vessels. And… it’s just goes to show you that any time in your life? You can… get more information and possibly change your opinion on your own body. [Laughs.]
theresa
Yeah! I mean… it—worth noting is that… you can be magic and you don’t have to be a vessel!
biz
True— [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] I smell a t-shirt! Oh my god! That was wonderful and again, we are providing a link to Maureen Theresa Smith’s website where you can find out more about her book Your Moontime Magic: A Girl’s Guide to Getting Your Period and Loving Your Body. What a novel idea! As well as all the activists she talked about and some of the links you can use to help fight period poverty. Yeah! I—that was so nice! You know what’s also nice? Listening to a mom have a breakdown.
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Hey, One Bad Mother! Um, this is a rant. So my husband tore his ACL and his meniscus and basically the bottom line is—now I’m solo parenting and also taking care of him for the next five weeks. Which—I was doing okay at. Uh, you know, I had—I had it under control. Everything was going fine. And then I decided to tell what I thought was, like, a funny, comical, story to my friend about what was happening and now I’m running—I—I also work full-time. Uh, but right now I’m running my daughter from her doctor’s appointment. We’re going to my doctor’s appointment. And then in-between we stopped at home to do a change and my husband asked for a glass of wine and I didn’t kill him, which I thought was a big win. Uh, and so I shared that with her because I didn’t kill him! [Biz laughs.] Like, yayyy! Genius moment! Uh… and instead she told me—she thinks I need therapy because it sounds like I have a lot going on. And a part of me is like—yeah! I know I need therapy! Thank you! Uh, but I don’t have time right now to find a therapist that will take my insurance! And, like— [Biz laughs.] —to make a plan to go to that therapist without my daughter? There is no way! So it’s just— [sighs.] It’s just hard. And I’m tired. [Sniffs.] And I’m sick. And I—I just wanted my friend… just to tell me… that I was doing a good job. [Sighs.] Thanks for listening and telling me I’m doing a good job. Bye.
biz
You are doing a good job!
theresa
Yeah, you are!
biz
Yeah. We were saying that we should, like, roleplay this as if you had texted us all that information. So I’ll be you. ‘K.
theresa
And I’ll be us.
crosstalk
Biz: And you’ll be us. Theresa: I’ll be Biz and Theresa.
biz
Biz and Theresa. “Dear Biz and Theresa—uh, my husband has a torn meniscus—"
crosstalk
Theresa: Do you start all your texts with “dear so-and-so?” Go on. Biz: Yes. I do. I do!
biz
“Dear—” I’m traditional. [Both laugh.] “And—so now I’m solo parenting. I don’t have, like—he’s out. Y’know. Love him! But he’s—he’s out. So I gotta help him. I’m working. Lotta stuff! High stress! [Yelling] Ahhhhh! I feel like no one gives a shit. This is awful!”
theresa
You forgot about the part—we came home and he asked for a glass of wine. [Laughs.]
biz
Oh, yeah! Sorry. “Then I come home—" [Theresa laughs.] “—and he asks for a glass of wine! And I didn’t kill him! I feel like I’m doing a great job! And I also didn’t spit in it! I didn’t, like… put it five feet out of reach! Right? Like—where he can’t get it. I did a lot of good things! I’m a good person and no one can tell. I’m—I’m struggling.”
theresa
Alright. Here’s our reply [Theresa speaks as though she’s doing a voice-dictation text, including stating the punctuation]: You are fucking amazing. Period. I cannot believe what a fucking genius you are right now. Period. You are doing such a good job. Period. Can you also have a glass of wine later? Question mark? Love you so much. Keep it up. Good job. Yay for you. Period. Send.” [Biz laughs.]
biz
Emoji, emoji, emoji, emoji. Heart emoji! [Theresa laughs.]
theresa
Yeah. Lots of emojis.
biz
Lots of emojis! Uh—
theresa
Trophy emojis.
crosstalk
Biz: Trophy, trophy, trophy—yes! Theresa: It’s one of my faves.
biz
Yes! I—yeah! I totally—guys. Sometimes all we’re looking for is a “good job” or an “I see you” and it is disappointing when you don’t get that. And I’m sorry that you didn’t get it. Sidenote: uh, lots of times I have texted or spoken to Theresa over the years we have known each other—coming up on seven years—with similar style issues I’m going through. Some even—maybe a little more struggle! Some less! She’s always said—I see you and you’re doing a good job. And then separately, I can talk to her about the benefits of therapy. [Both laugh.] Okay? It’s like—two different—
theresa
Yeah.
biz
Yeah!
theresa
There was really a timing issue with this. ‘Cause like, really—it’s—I feel like it’s welcome to share, like, hey! Have you thought about therapy? With a friend who’s having a hard time! Like, I feel like that’s… also a very caring friend thing to do! But it was the timing that was wrong with this.
crosstalk
Biz: Yeah. The timing was not good. Yeah. Therapy’s good! Theresa: Situation. Yeah. Yeah. That’s important.
theresa
Yeah.
biz
But also—just telling each other we’re doing a good job and that we see you? Or—is there anything you—I sometimes say to Theresa, “Is there anything I can do?” I could order you a pizza! And just have food suddenly magically appear in your house! Right? Like— [Laughs.]
theresa
Biz has offered to throw Gatorade over our fence when we’re sick. [Laughs.]
crosstalk
Theresa: [Through laughter] Which I—appreciate. [Laughs.] Biz: Just—throw it! Pitch it! [Laughs.]
biz
You just call me, like, an urban mom runner delivery service. You’re doing a good job.
crosstalk
Theresa: Yeah, you are. You really are. Yeah! Biz: Yeah. I’m sorry. You got a lot going on.
biz
And it’s—and you gotta mom up. It’s like being at Legoland. [Laughs.] Right? Like—but five weeks.
crosstalk
Theresa: Yeah. It’s not—it’s way worse than Legoland. Let’s be honest. You’re doing amazing. Biz: That’s not—yeah. It is. You are.
theresa
Yeah.
biz
What did we learn today, Theresa? We learned that we can talk about difficult things. And that some people don’t find those things difficult! [Laughs.] And some do! And… that we’re both relatively functioning adults in the world, regardless of how we felt about our bodies as children. [Laughs.] I also wanna—I realized, halfway through our conversation, that one of the things we had not talked about? Was the absolute—something I’m very comfortable talking about relating to periods—is the absolute bullshit myth that somehow having your period? Prevents you from being capable of doing things. Like, we can’t have a lady president! She’s gonna get her period! Honey, ain’t nobody who’s running for president still got a period. Okay? [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] Two! Or can’t be a CEO. Or can’t be—like—it’s such an excuse to limit? Like, it’s—it’s sort of our, like, modern, y’know, educated culture society that we live in. Y’know, here, but we’re still able to somehow manipulate it so that, y’know—yeah! You can have your period and still be on the couch and watch Netflix. Look how supportive we are! You just can’t do certain types of military work. You can’t do certain types of business work. You just—because you’re gonna be a mess! I mean, do we want a woman with her finger on the button? Am I right, guys?
theresa
What if she has a mood swing? [Laughs.]
biz
Whooopsie-daisy!
theresa
By the way, that’s the only time humans ever have mood swings. Right?
biz
Yeah. Women? Sorry! You can’t do anything because of your period. You’re not a witch, but you’re also—have no value. But! [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] But what we know is that is absolutely not true, and having conversations like we do, and having guests on—like we had today—will continue to help shatter this incredibly outdated myth about women. We’re also basically going to celebrate periods and menstruation—
crosstalk
Theresa: Yeah! Let’s do it! Biz: —go—more!
theresa
Yeah! Let’s do it!
biz
So we’re gonna actually do something we don’t normally do—we’re going to do a little tease-y tease-y! For an episode! So in a couple of weeks, Aida Salazar is going to be joining us.
theresa
Yeah. She has this great book, The Moon Within, that I’m reading right now. It’s about… basically, a similar thing. It’s about, like, a period journey. A young puberty journey for 10, 11, 12-year old kids who are coming of age in Oakland and the narrator is… basically not sure she wants—y’know, she’s excited but she’s not sure she wants her mom to throw her a big party? [Biz laughs.] Which is what her mom wants to do when she gets her period? And then her best friend is sort of—gender nonconforming and sort of not sure that they actually feel like a girl at all as they’re going through this process. And it’s—um—it’s a really cool book. So I’m really excited we’re gonna get that perspective on the show as well. And for other information that is about puberty education that’s more gender-inclusive, we had Lisa Kenney on the show a few weeks ago—episode 311—if you wanna refer back to that, and that covers more on the topic of—just puberty in general for all kids regardless of gender.
biz
Woo-hoo! Let’s keep talking! [Laughs.] I love it. We also learned that Maureen Theresa Smith is sa delight! And we really enjoyed talking with her about her new book, Your Moontime Magic: A Girl’s Guide to Getting Your Period and Loving Your Body. Everybody? You’re doing a good job. At some point in time, puberty is coming to your house! [Theresa laughs.] And it’s going to be something to witness. [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] And… it’s good to start talking about it now. We will continue to talk about our experiences—how it makes us feel. ‘Cause this show is all about us. [Laughs.] And… here’s the honest truth about this? As Katy Belle sits there on the threshold of it all? It’s gonna be hard. And I’m constantly surprised by what I realize I’m not ready for. And… so actually it is really important that we talk about it. And I know that many of you are going through this? Or have gone through this? Or are worried about what it’s gonna be like? And everybody’s kid is not gonna experience it the same way that you did, or that their peers are. It’s just gonna get complicated. [Laughs.] And you’re doing a really good job.
theresa
Yeah. You are.
biz
Theresa?
theresa
Yes.
biz
You are doing a really good job.
theresa
Thanks, Biz. So are you.
biz
Thank you. And we will talk to you guys next week.
crosstalk
Biz and Theresa: Byeeee!
music
“Mama Blues” by Cornbread Ted and the Butterbeans. Strumming acoustic guitar with harmonica and lyrics. I got the lowdown momma blues Got the the lowdown momma blues Gots the lowdown momma blues The lowdown momma blues Gots the lowdown momma blues Got the lowdown momma blues You know that’s right [Music fades somewhat, plays in background of dialogue.]
biz
We’d like to thank MaxFun; our producer, Hannah Smith; our husbands, Stefan Lawrence and Jesse Thorn; our perfect children, who provide us with inspiration to say all these horrible things; and of course, you, our listeners. To find out more about the songs you heard on today’s podcast and more about the show, please go to MaximumFun.org/onebadmother. For information about live shows, our book and press, please check out OneBadMotherPodcast.com.
theresa
One Bad Mother is a member of the Maximum Fun family of podcasts. To support the show go to MaximumFun.org/donate. [Music continues for a while before fading out.]
speaker 2
Comedy and culture.
speaker 3
Artist owned—
speaker 4
—Audience supported.
About the show
One Bad Mother is a comedy podcast hosted by Biz Ellis about motherhood and how unnatural it sometimes is. We aren’t all magical vessels!
Join us every week as we deal with the thrills and embarrassments of motherhood and strive for less judging and more laughing.
Call in your geniuses and fails: 206-350-9485. For booking and guest ideas, please email onebadmother@maximumfun.org. To keep up with One Bad Mother on social media, follow @onebadmothers on Twitter and Instagram.
Get in touch with the show
onebadmother@maximumfun.org
@OneBadMothers
@onebadmothers
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