Transcript
biz ellis
This is Biz. I’m a part-time working mom with two full-blown kids.
theresa thorn
And I’m Theresa. I have a family business, two young kids, and a toddler.
biz
This is a show about life after giving life. Don’t listen with your kids, ‘cause there will be swears. This… is One Bad Mother.
music
“Summoning the Rawk” by Kevin MacLeod. Driving electric guitar and heavy drums. [Continues through dialogue.]
biz
This week on One Bad Mother—paging Dr. Mom! Plus, Biz takes a trip to the stars; we learn what Theresa does when she has a cold; and we talk to Molly Bloom from Brains On! and Smash Boom Best.
crosstalk
Biz and Theresa: Wooooo! [Biz extends it into high-pitched singing.] [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective weeks.]
biz
Theresa?
theresa
Yes.
biz
How are you?
theresa
[Exaggeratedly discouraged voice] I’m— [Biz laughs.] —sick again.
biz
You are?! [Laughs wildly.]
theresa
Yeah. Ho-hum. What does Eeyore say? [Laughs.]
biz
[Through laughter] It’s like— “Oh, bother.” [Laughs.]
theresa
Oh, bother. It’s nothing.
crosstalk
Theresa: Sick again. [Laughs.] Biz: No one cares about me anyway. [Laughs.]
theresa
Um, I love Eeyore. Yeah. I just—I have a cold again. I got it from Curtis, I believe. ‘Cause I think I’m just getting all the preschool illnesses over again, basically? He was a little sick last week but not, like, enough to stay home? But he just has the—we just have the cold! The cold! We have the cold. And the funny thing is, when I have a bad cold, I generally like to take Sudafed. Like, the real, like—the pseudoephedrine that you have to, like, get from behind the counter.
biz
Yeah!
crosstalk
Theresa: At least in California you do. And like, sign for it. Biz: Yeah, you do! Yeah.
theresa
Because for me, I feel like it’s the only thing that works. Like, if I really have to—if I have to operate, like, on a— [Biz laughs.]
crosstalk
Theresa: —at least, like, a normal level. Biz: Human level. [Laughs.]
theresa
I need that to operate! But the funny thing is, is it has the effect of… making me kind of manic?
biz
Aw.
theresa
And really, like… ambitiously— [Biz laughs.] —organizational. [Biz laughs wildly.] Like, big time. So—this—like, the past few days we took—we—I mentioned we had taken down the crib and then—so there’s been some reorganization going on and some cleaning out of areas. And it’s not done, but—the way I have basically rested the last few days has been— [Biz laughs.] —to, like… psychotically clean my house to the point where I’m like, sweating and there’s like stuff everywhere and I’m like—[determined voice] I’m almost done! To Jesse, like, I’m just—and it’s not a—it’s not restful?
biz
Uh-uh.
theresa
But I can’t stop myself. And it kind of feels good ‘cause it’s, like, stuff that kinda really needs to happen? So there you go! I guess—that—there’s, uh, there’s maybe something good about me being sick?
biz
I look forward to seeing how that action affects the length of your cold! [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.]
crosstalk
Biz: Because if it just fixes it—no! No! I’m hoping that it fixes it! Theresa: I’m—yeah. You don’t think I’m—yeah. [Laughs.] Okay.
biz
And then I’m like—new—new treatment! [Theresa laughs.] Oh man, that dives in well to what we’re going to talk about later. Sadly, mine doesn’t.
theresa
Okay. How are you?
biz
I—guys, I’m great. Because of one thing. Ellis and I did something and it was so great. And I—we have, like—I—y’know, this is where I come to talk about the struggles.
theresa
Yeah.
biz
But—as I’ve mentioned recently, he’s been into, like, the stars and astronomy and like constellations and stuff? And I just happened to be looking at what’s going on around town, and at Descanso Gardens—which is this beautiful, y’know, gardens thing you can go roam around in? They were having a star night! And they had it Saturday—last Saturday night. And I just took Ellis.
theresa
Nice!
biz
And I was like—I really think this is gonna be good. And there was a brief moment when I told him about it on Friday and he was like—I don’t wanna do that. And I like—my heart sank. And then the next morning, he was like—I cannot wait. So we go out there. We get there, 5:30. He’s like, bounding through the gardens—“I’m gonna be an astronomer!” And he’s like, yelling out all the stuff that he’s learned. I mean, it might as well be like… like, Star Wars characters for him, right? Like, that’s how he retains it? So he’s like—that’s blah, blah, blah, blah! And so he’s like, we’re gonna do the stargazing! So we go out there, we meet the astronomer. He asks, like, a million questions to the astronomer and she was very [through laughter] patient with Ellis. And then we laid out and we watched, like—like he spotted—we spotted star constellations together and like listened to the talk and that was so awesome? And then we went and did a star craft, which was really cute. And then we went and saw a puppet show about dragons? It was like a shadow puppet show? We had, like… the best time together.
theresa
Good job!
biz
Yeah. It—
theresa
That’s awesome.
biz
It was! It was awesome. There was none of the other stuff!
theresa
Yeah!
biz
We just did it!
theresa
That’s great!
crosstalk
Biz: It was! And it was at night; I didn’t know how that was gonna work. I mean, it coulda been—but it was special! Theresa: Good! Yeah. That’s special. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah!
biz
It was so—special! [Laughs.] I just felt like—oh my god! I did a thing with my kid! That I’m afraid to do stuff with!
crosstalk
Biz: Yeah! Sometimes. And it worked! And I—y’know— Theresa: Yeah! And it—it worked! Yeah! Yeah.
biz
I know that’s not destined for greatness forever? But!
theresa
No, that doesn’t matter!
biz
We both are still talking about it.
theresa
I mean, it makes me think back to, like, the early days where—like, you would say stuff like, “Y’know, I see families out going to stuff and like—why can’t that be me?” And that was—
crosstalk
Theresa: —a real place and time! Biz: That was us! Yeah!
theresa
But now, you kinda like—
crosstalk
Biz: We did it! We did a thing out! Wanting to do forever! I knowww! Theresa: —did that! You did that thing that you’ve been—yeah! Yeah. That’s so good.
biz
I—uh! It was so good! [Laughs.]
theresa
Good job!
biz
Thank you. It does not tie in as nicely as— [Theresa laughs.] —what you started our show off with today. Which is gonna be—paging Dr. Mom.
music
Banjo strums; cheerful banjo music continues through dialogue.
theresa
Please—take a moment to remember: If you’re friends of the hosts of One Bad Mother, you should assume that when we talk about other moms, we’re talking about you.
biz
If you are married to the host of One Bad Mother, we definitely are talking about you.
theresa
Nothing we say constitutes professional parenting advice.
biz
Biz and Theresa’s children are brilliant, lovely, and exceedingly extraordinary.
theresa
Nothing said on this podcast about them implies otherwise. [Banjo music fades out.] [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss the weekly topic.]
biz
Theresa.
theresa
Yes.
biz
Dr. Mom.
theresa
Yes.
biz
I’m just gonna set this up—we’ve been—we’ve been mulling this one over for a while.
theresa
Uh-huh.
biz
And I’m glad we didn’t just jump right into it and we’ve had some time to mull this topic over. To really, really discover this can go lots of places. But I think the basic thing is—suddenly, you have a kid in your house and I guess we know everything about medicine.
theresa
Yeah! [Biz laughs.]
biz
And—disease and injuries and emotional development—I mean, like… it’s a big leap! Like, I feel like when we’re pregnant we have all these books that are like—this is how to take care of yourself! And then like… maybe even with babies! There’s like—
theresa
Yeah. New babies.
biz
Yeah. Like, hey, look, these are the things. ‘Cause they’re usually pretty standard. Right?
crosstalk
Biz: Like, this is how your fever—right. Rashes are this. You know. Theresa: This is how high the fever can—is okay, and—y’know. Right. Yeah.
biz
Blah, blah, blah. Everything’s malleable so when they fall down it’s not that big a deal. Nothing’s broken. There’s no bone there. Katy Belle fell on her nose once and I was like—[screams]. [Laughs.] Just—and luckily, we have an ER doctor in the family who’s like, yeah. That—there’s no bone there to break. It’s just sucks. [Laughs.] Okay. But then, like, toddler and on—I mean, we’re gonna have kids in our house for a while, guys! And—I am just surprised at the assumption… that we know… what to do!
theresa
Yeah. A lot of times. Yeah.
biz
A lot of times! Whether or not we do.
theresa
Right.
biz
But like… I mean, I—this falls into that, like, mom instinct. This falls into the, like… the—y’know, information passed down for families. You know, a teaspoon of sugar will get rid of the hiccups! [Aside] And it does. [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] Sometimes it’s not valid science. [Laughs.] Or advice. I’m just gonna lay that out there.
theresa
Yeah.
biz
So… do you feel like a qualified doctor— [Theresa laughs boisterously.] —in your house? [Laughs wildly.] All the doctors—everybody in the medical profession right now are just like— [Laughs.] Clenching up!
theresa
I know! I know, I know, I know. ‘Cause I mean… obviously, we’re going from a baseline of… we love doctors and we need doctors. [Biz laughs.] Like, we—we are kind of trying to acknowledge just how… kind of absurd it is, the assumption that parents kind of know what to do?
biz
Yeah! [Laughs.]
theresa
Um, and I think—I—the first one that it starts with is knowing when to call a doctor! Like, when should you call the doctor, or depending on what your health plan is—like, in ours, we—you have to—you can call the advice nurse or you can like make an appointment. Or you can go to Urgent Care. And so it’s like—the part of what I’m—what I learned how to do, is like—which of those things does this situation call for? [Biz laughs.] If any? You know? Or do we go to the emergency room? Like—
biz
Or do we go to the emergency room? Right.
theresa
Yeah. It’s like—it’s kind of, like, one step removed from the medical stuff. But then there’s like… the baseline. When could your kid benefit from like, taking some acetaminophen? Or some ibuprofen? When would your kid—when should you keep a band-aid on? Which we talked about a lot recently. Like—when should a cut be treated with goopy antibiotic stuff? Or when should you keep it dry? When—like—
crosstalk
Theresa: And like, things with like—rashes. Tummy—tummy things that are unu— Biz: Right. Yeah! Rashes! Let’s just jump into the rashes, too! Tummy issues?
theresa
Like, if it’s just like the—abdominal something? Like, you can tell—
crosstalk
Theresa: —abdominal—yeah. Biz: Occasional pains?
biz
‘Cause that’s the one for me, with my kids where they are ten and six, where they’re constantly complaining about different pains and I’m just like— [Laughs.] Growing pains!
theresa
Yeah! Always!
biz
Like, it’s—I’m always growing pains. And most of the time I really think it is. I mean, if they’re limping for a couple of days. [Laughs.]
crosstalk
Biz: But I’m like— Theresa: Yeah! I mean, like—
theresa
Oscar, a couple days ago, though, was like—I’m gonna go lay down in my bed. I have a growing pain in my arm. It happens sometimes. And I was thinking to myself—I said, sure! And then I was thinking—growing pain in your one arm? [Biz laughs.] Like, I’ve never heard of that. That seems weird. But I just let him go with it? Like—well, if he complains again— [Biz laughs.] —maybe I’ll, like, look into it further. But it’s a constant managing of… number one, do I understand what’s going on? Or what’s trying to be communicated to me.
biz
Right.
theresa
Does my kid understand what they’re feeling? ‘Cause like, Oscar will often mix up sensations that he’s having. Like, he will ask for food when he’s about to fall asleep ‘cause he mixes up hunger and sleepiness.
biz
Ohhh.
theresa
But there are certain, like, body feelings that he’s having that he has trouble figuring out how to describe what he’s feeling! Which totally makes sense.
biz
Well, like, headaches are a weird one!
theresa
Headaches are weird!
crosstalk
Theresa: You’re like, is it a—is it a headache? What does it feel—you know. Biz: Like, how do you descr—or did you just get up funny?
theresa
Totally. Totally! And so there’s like—there’s those first things. And then there’s like… is this, like, a home remedy thing.
biz
Is this water and rest? [Laughs.]
theresa
And then at what point do I—at what point do I, like, seek further assistance? And I feel like… that one? Is… it’s one that, like, I’ve gotten better and better at? But I’ve—but I’ve also still gotten wrong with Curtis! Is my third kid! You know? Like, I—I can’t remember if I talked about this, but like he had a—like a blemish on his cheek. And I actually, like… it bothered me so much ‘cause like, I—it was a blemish! And he has, like, little kid skin that like doesn’t have blemishes! You know, like a pimple!
biz
Yeah. It’s a spider egg. Go ahead. [Laughs.]
theresa
Great! And so I like… I totally was like trying to squeeze it. I was trying to like— [Biz laughs.] —do weird things to it. I was putting Neosporin on it. All this stuff. And then I finally—after a few more days, and like—the teacher had put a band-aid over it at one point? [Biz laughs.] And I—at school—and—and so then—
biz
So he wouldn’t pick it. Yeah.
theresa
Yeah! Or, I don’t know why!
crosstalk
Theresa: He came home with a band-aid. Yeah, probably. Biz: It disgusted her. [Laughs.]
theresa
And I finally emailed the doctor—with pictures of it!—and was like, I’m—you know, I’ve done this. I’ve done this. I’ve done this and I’ve done that. You know. What do you—what do you think? [Laughs.] And she just wrote back—“little infections happen in the skin from time to time. Nothing necessarily needs to be done. That should work.” Like, she was basically just like—literally, stop it.
biz
Yeah! Stop touching it! [Laughs.]
theresa
Stop looking at it. Stop talking about it. Stop touching it.
biz
Stop touching it.
theresa
Just leave it the fuck alone.
crosstalk
Biz: Put a band-aid on it! [Laughs.] Theresa: Get a grip!
theresa
Like, get a grip. And I was like—wow. And it was funny because I— [Biz laughs.] —I think I am—because I have three kids and because I’m like juggling a lot? I miss stuff sometimes, and so there’s this part of me that’s like—sort of on hyper-alert, like, what am I missing? ‘Cause I’m probably missing something because I’m doing too many things. And so… sometimes I—that causes me to over-react out of, like, a sense of guilt that I’m probably— [Biz laughs.] —not doing enou—y’know, that I’m probably not paying enough attention. And then this was one of those situations where I was like—wow. How much energy did I just expend over the last, like… seven days on this thing that the doctor was like—wow, first time mom. Like, calm down.
biz
You spent two tablespoons’ worth. [Laughs.]
theresa
Yeah. Right.
biz
Yeah! I am with you 100%. Like, I feel like… I agree. There’s the stuff that’s happening where you’re like—this is probably at home. Like, rest and—like, so much is tied back to water. Are you drinking enough water? [Laughs.] You need to drink a shit-ton more water, kid! Right? Like—
theresa
And sleep!
biz
Or sleep! And sleep. You know. “It hurts when I do this.” Don’t do that! You know! [Laughs.]
theresa
Yeah.
biz
Go to those classic ones.
theresa
Or how about—it’ll—it’ll feel better soon. [Laughs.]
crosstalk
Biz: It’ll feel better soon. Walk it off! Walk it off, kid! Theresa: [Through laughter] Like, I’m always like—yeah! That—like, aw, that really sucks!
theresa
By tomorrow it’ll be fine. Like— [Laughs.]
biz
“Would you like the heating pad on it?” Y’know? Like—or boo-boo bunny? Right? Like—this falls into, I think, that category of… trusting ourselves! Right? Like—and not beating ourselves up for—if we overreact or underreact! Regardless of doctors’ responses? It’s like, the poison hotline. I’d much rather call and be told it’s all okay than have the measles somehow! Right? Like— [Laughs.] Y’know? Rashes is my downward spiral.
theresa
Okay.
biz
And… like a good doctor, I google it. Whenever new bumps, uh, appear on my children’s skin, I google it and I just… can’t emphasize enough—never google “rash on child.” Just don’t. Don’t even put the word “rash” into a google search. It’s not helpful. It does not—googling stuff, I don’t think, it helpful as a parent. Unless—unless! It is “I am going to look for questions to ask my doctor.” Right? Like—or—
theresa
Oh, yeah!
biz
You know what I mean? Like, I always like to go in and be like—I wanna make sure… I understand this enough if I have questions, I can ask them.
theresa
We also—we use it for—for stuff that it is not visual. Like, um— [Biz laughs.] Like, what is the correct dosage for something? Or what—like, medicine interactions.
crosstalk
Theresa: Like, sometimes. You know. Biz: Oh, that’s a good thought. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
theresa
Or like if you’re still breastfeeding you might look up if it’s okay to have a certain thing. Like, there’s like things about medications that I feel like are very easy and helpful to find online.
biz
Yeah. That’s a good one, too. I like that. How to remove a band-aid. Another good google search. I wanna shift into… two other things related to being a doctor. One would be—and I think this ties in to—one ties into the other. Bedside manner! Do you have a good bedside manner? I—I don’t know if I do. Sometimes I do.
theresa
Mm-hm.
biz
I remember once, Katy Belle—we were at somebody else’s house—and they had a… zipline in the backyard. And you had to climb up really high.
crosstalk
Biz: And she fell from the zipline and I wasn’t there. Theresa: Oh, I remember that! Yeah!
biz
I mean, I was like—at a meeting thing. And they were like, oh, Katy Belle fell! So I go rushing out and she’s laying on her back and I just go into… assessment mode! “Don’t move.” Y’know. “Stay still.” ‘Cause I remember these things of like, y’know, neck injuries and head injuries, you’re not supposed to move them. Right? I don’t know where she’s fallen yet, but I am just like—I want you to look at me. You’re looking at me. Okay. Move fingers. That’s my first go-to all the time as Dr. Mom is—can you wiggle your fingers? [Theresa laughs.] Can you wiggle your toes? Right? Can you— [Laughs.] Have we severed a nerve somewhere, right? Y’know, checking the eyes. And then we’re going through all the—can you feel your back? Is there—y’know—[makes scattered noises]. And another mom is there and she goes—do you—are you a nurse? [Theresa laughs.] I was like, God no! Y’know? But I was like—I know that my bedside manner is, like, for big things… stay calm. Act really serious. So that my child knows they have my full attention. And I feel like it helps calm them down a little if I’m like, in their eyes, like, I am here and this just happened. Right? And those things, I feel like I’m great at. Like, crisis.
crosstalk
Theresa: Crisis mode! Yeah! Biz: Crisis mode.
biz
Little stuff, like… this kinda hurts or whatever?
theresa
I don’t wanna get in the bath ‘cause I have a scrape on my knee.
crosstalk
Theresa: I’m just like, oh my god. Yeah. Yeah. Biz: Yeah. I—my bedside manner goes right out the window.
theresa
It’ll be fine. [Laughs.]
biz
You’re gonna be okay.
theresa
It’s gonna be fine.
biz
It’s actually gonna feel great. Do you wanna put a band-aid on it? Do you wanna, like just—
crosstalk
Biz: —bathe with your leg hanging out of the tub? Theresa: Oh, would you like a band-aid? Yeah.
biz
You’re disgusting! You’ve gotta get in the tub. Right? Like… don’t pick it! Don’t pick it! Stop picking it! That’s my other great doctor advice: stop picking it! [Theresa laughs.] Right? [Laughs.] Just don’t pick it! And like… yeah! I—I think when it comes to the little stuff, I try not to be completely dismissive? But I also have very little room for pity.
theresa
Yeah. What I think works pretty well is the confidence. Right? Like, we—that’s what we’re basically doing? [Biz laughs.] In either situation.
biz
True.
theresa
We’re showing them what is a big deal and what is not a big deal? And I feel like they do learn from that! I’m totally with you, like, on little things where I’m just like—it’s—just—it’s fine! Like, it’ll be fine. But when I’m doing a good job—when I have the energy— [Biz laughs.] —I can say, like—I can say, like, I know that, like, this does really suck. And like, everyone feels that way. Like, you’re not alone. It’s just one of those things. And it’s gonna be—like, it’s—like—when I imagine when I was a kid, my mom talking to me in that same way? It kind of gave me the reassurance. Like, if my mom is not worried about this? It really will be okay. Like—whereas with bigger things, I think if we’re—like, I think if we’re appropriately reacting to all situations, we’re kind of teaching them.
crosstalk
Biz: See, but now I’m gonna tie this in— Theresa: What things to worry about and what not to.
biz
—to not what I thought I was gonna tie it into, but something else. And that is—we also are supposed to be psychologists, therapists, like, have this mental health background as well. Which I think may even be trickier than, like, how to handle a cut. And I think that ties in with the minor stuff? Like, this hurts? ‘Cause it makes me think of this book that I had as a kid and I found it recently and I gave it to Ellis and it’s called Albert’s Toothache. And it’s about this turtle and he’s complaining of a toothache. And he won’t go to school, and everybody’s like [dismissive high-pitched noise], his dad especially, is like—[gruff voice] you don’t have a toothache! We don’t have teeth! Right? And all the kids are like—can I get out of school too ‘cause I have a toothache? Right, and the mother’s like—worry, worry, worry. You know? And he keeps complaining about the toothache, and when his grandmother shows up, she goes up and the first thing she says to him is—where is your toothache? And he points to his toe. And she bandages it up, and gives it a kiss, and he’s better. Because sometimes, they are looking for more acknowledgement that they exist. Right?
theresa
Totally!
biz
And like—so with the small things, like the “walk it off”— [Laughs.] “Walk it off, champ!” Right? Like—when we have the patience, we can be good with our patients. When we don’t, you don’t have a toothache; you don’t have teeth. Right? Like, is also an easy place to go.
theresa
Well it’s also—just—when those things are happening and I can see that it’s for attention? I mean there’s not much you can do about it in the moment? But I’m sometimes like—I don’t really wanna give my attention to this? I’m gonna find something else to give my attention to? For, like, about my kid? To give them what they’re obviously needing? You know? [Biz laughs.]
biz
Okay. All that, right there. The, like—either acknowledging it; not acknowledging it; how we respond to it. I think ties into an even bigger question—why do our children—like, why do we think our children assume we know what we’re talking about? [Theresa laughs.] That we are the best medical choice for them?
theresa
[Through laughter] I know!
biz
Like, sorry, your insurance only covers me. [Laughs.]
theresa
I know. It’s so funny. Well—this totally reminds me of just the other day, Grace had fallen, like, on her way home from school? It was just a knee scrape, but it was like a really bad knee scrape? Like, it was—it was pretty gnarly? And they had treated her at school before sending her home, and then they put on one of those really major bandages? [Biz laughs.] That is like… glued to your skin. And has no air. Like, there’s no air getting in. And… they sent me an email saying, like, y’know, we cleaned it up a little bit and put a bandage on but you’re probably gonna need to get—freshen up the bandage. Which I would have anyway, ‘cause I’m like, I gotta get a look at this thing! Y’know?
biz
Yeah, right! I wanna see it!
theresa
Yeah! And— [Biz laughs.] —you know, she doesn’t want me anywhere near it. So I bribed her with a bowl of candy.
biz
Sure.
theresa
And that worked. And I ripped the shit out of that band-aid. [Biz laughs.] Because I did not have time to do—‘cause she had a bowl of candy and by the time that bowl of candy was in her mouth, I was done. So I was like—I can’t waste any time. [Laughs.] On this. [Biz laughs.] And it totally like—I mean, it was really—it really ripped. Like, it was not a good—it was—
crosstalk
Biz: It was red, probably. Yeah. [Laughs.] Theresa: It was red. Yes. It was red.
theresa
And um… and so I look at it, and I kind of—I cleaned it a little bit with some saline. And I—I’m kind of like gazing at it, y’know, giving it my assessment.
biz
Yeah. Your assessment.
theresa
And I said—you know what? I think this is gonna be fine and I don’t think it needs much. I don’t think we should cover it. I think we should give it some air— [Biz laughs.] —and just let it do its thing tonight and probably by tomorrow it’ll be scabbed up. It’ll be fine. And I was just fully delivering it like that. And Grace just goes, “Why do you know what I should do?” [Biz laughs.] “You’re not a doctor!” [Laughs.]
biz
What?!
theresa
And it was like—it was a genuine question. Like, she wasn’t trying to be a jerk to me? She was just like—what—like, it’s been a while, I think, since she’s gotten really hurt and so she was just kind of like—why—why do you know? Like, how do you know all this stuff? I don’t know—like—how do—? And I was like—I looked at her and I was like, wow. I guess I have to give her a real answer to this! [Biz laughs.] So I just said—I—I mean, I guess I just have a lot of experience ‘cause I’m—I’m 38. I’ve had a lot of experience with scraped-up skin by now! With my own; with my own kids; I was a babysitter; I was an after-school teacher. Lots of scrapes!
crosstalk
Theresa: So I kind of know at this point. Yeah, I went to law school! Biz: I went to law school. [Laughs.]
theresa
These are my credentials. Uh, do you want to see a resume? No. Um— [Biz laughs.] —and she was satisfied with my answer! But it was kind of like—it was like—oh! You thought to question this reality that I’ve presented you with. Which is that I know everything and I’m God.
biz
Right.
theresa
You know?
biz
I know we could dwell on this forever, but I just have to like—give a shoutout to the, like… we all know that kids are different. And whatever we expected in our house before kids is not a—really, I’m not sure anybody got exactly what they expected in their house. Surprise! Your kid’s got Type 1 Diabetes. Surprise! Your kid is… you know, on the spectrum or is wired differently! Right? Like, all the stuff—and then we get into the real area of real crash course doctor learning! Right? Like… that’s beyond the cold. Right? Like, that’s beyond the flu or the scraped knees. I think we don’t acknowledge sometimes that in, like… the things that are bigger than the boo-boos and bigger than the colds and—
crosstalk
Theresa: Like, actual special needs that are—yeah. Yeah. Like surgeries or—yeah. Like, all kinds of things. Yeah. Biz: Like actual special needs. Yeah! Suddenly—
biz
—we really have to become!
theresa
Yes! Experts!
biz
Experts!
theresa
Yes. That’s so true.
biz
And I—and I think that that’s intense! And I don’t think any of us necessarily signed up to be Dr. Moms in that way. You know?
theresa
You know, I’m really glad that you brought that up. Because I also—I find that—and I’m in the One Bad Mother—the special needs group? I’m forgetting the new name ‘cause it’s really long but it’s a really good name. [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.] It’s very inclusive. Um, and specific. But um… I think that it’s one of those things where—about, like, being a parent—where, like, some people who don’t have kids with special needs will see a parent with a kid who has special needs and think like… oh, that was in their plan! They’re a special needs parent! [Biz laughs.] Like, that was—
crosstalk
Theresa: They’re a special needs parent! They—they say—yeah! Biz: How lucky you were a nurse already! [Laughs.]
theresa
They knew—like—and—oh, sure. There are some cases where there’s adoptions or there’s something that runs in your family that you know and you’re prepared for, or like—there are situations where you have some more expectations around that? But the vast majority of them are… we’re just all learning. [Biz laughs.] As quickly as we can about something we probably never thought we would need to know about.
biz
Right!
theresa
And now we need to know it really well so that our kid can survive.
biz
Yeah! Yeah! I—
theresa
Yeah.
biz
Yeah!
theresa
Yeah.
biz
That—yes!
theresa
Yes. [Laughs.]
biz
So let’s—let’s end with that shoutout. Let’s also end with… acknowledging, uh, couple of things. Just real quick. [Laughs.] One—always check your dosages. Uh, with any medicine. I mean, these are givens, but you know? It’s good to remind because we know that this is something—I was under-giving Tylenol recently. Like, and my doctor was like, it’s not really the age. It’s the weight. And so that—they can do—you know? Like—so always check with doctors or the, y’know, even just the back of the label? [Laughs.] Right? That you know you’re dosing correctly. Always trust your instinct if you feel like you should call the doctor?
theresa
Mm-hm.
biz
Call the doctor! It’s okay. And as always—vaccines are good! [Both laugh.]
crosstalk
Biz and Theresa: [Cheering] Yayyyyy! Biz: Medicine! [Laughs.]
music
“Ones and Zeroes” by “Awesome.” Steady, driving electric guitar with drum and woodwinds. [Music fades out.]
theresa
Music: Laid-back acoustic guitar plays in the background. One Bad Mother is supported in part by Grove.co. 70% of people say they wanna use natural products, but only 2% do. Why? Because what they sell at the store is from the biggest companies, not necessarily the ones that are best for you. So where do you start? Introducing Grove Collaborative.
biz
Grove Collaborative delivers all-natural home, beauty, and personal care products directly to you. For me, my biggest problem was—rabbit holes! [High-pitched voice] “I would like to change to a natural”— [Laughs.] “Dishwashing detergent.”
crosstalk
Theresa: Four hours later—yeah. Biz: Rabbit hole!
biz
And what I love about Grove is they’ve done the research for you? It has made it incredible easy for me to switch a number of my cleaning and healthcare habits. And I really appreciate it. [Laughs.]
theresa
Plus, shipping is fast and free on your first order! So for a limited time, when our listeners go to Grove.co/mother, you’ll get a free five-piece cleaning set from Mrs. Meyer and Grove—a $30 value. That’s Grove.co/mother. [Music fades out.]
theresa
Hey, you know what it’s time for! This week’s genius and fails! This is the part of the show where we share our genius moment of the week, as well as our failures, and feel better about ourselves by hearing yours. You can share some of your own by calling 206-350-9485. That’s 206-350-9485.
biz
Genius fail time, Theresa. Genius me!
clip
[Dramatic, swelling music in background.] Biz: Wow! Oh my God! Oh my God! I saw what you did! Oh my God! I’m paying attention! Wow! You, mom, are a genius. Oh my God, that’s fucking genius! [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective genius moments of the week.]
theresa
Okay. So… you guys all know that I have the minivan. Everybody has plenty of space. [Biz laughs.] In Jesse’s car—it’s like a wagon, so it’s three—so when the kids are sitting in his car, it’s three across. It’s a little squished, but they do okay. So Curtis is just about to pass the weight limit for the latch system for his car seat, which means you have to, like, feed the seatbelt through instead of using the latch. So—but his seatbelt buckles in—for his car seat—buckles in right next to the middle seatbelt, which is where Grace usually sits. And we’ve had this problem recently where we’ve noticed that—occasionally we notice that the seatbelt is unbuckled. And so like when she was getting out she just like didn’t notice she pressed the wrong one or she did both of them or she did—whatever.
biz
She’s unbuckling Curtis.
theresa
She’s unbuckling Curtis! And she’s unbuckling his whole car seat. And it’s kinda scary! Because you have to remember to look and check every time and we don’t always. And… this morning, Jesse was taking Curtis and Oscar to school and he was like, 15 minutes late because he realized that the—once he got everybody into the car, he realized, oh, this had happened. And then he—and then I had, like, locked the seatbelt in place so he couldn’t get it back in and then like whatever. I’m the seat—I’m the car seat person. So he had a real—a lot of trouble with that. And I was just sitting there, thinking—this is a really big problem! [Biz laughs.] Like, this is actually a problem.
biz
Yeah.
theresa
We need to like fix this. And I thought—this must be a problem that people have!
biz
Sure!
theresa
What do I google for this? What do I google? And it occurred to me, like, maybe there’s a child safety buckle protector!
biz
Ooh!
theresa
And I looked it up, and yes! There are like 20 to choose from! [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.] And so I ordered one, and it’s basically just a little cover for the seatbelt that is like a—it’s like a child safety lock for like a front door or a drawer, only it’s for the seatbelt. And it doesn’t need to be that hard to open; we just need to—
crosstalk
Theresa: —use it to cover it— Biz: Cover it!
theresa
—so that Grace doesn’t accidentally—you know, she’s not doing it on purpose! So I ordered one. It was $9. It will be here tomorrow and problem solved.
crosstalk
Theresa: I feel so much better! Biz: Wow! Good job!
theresa
Yes.
biz
Excellent.
theresa
Thank you.
biz
So living in Southern California, there’ve been some droughts since we have lived here. So there’s an old genius that is gonna tie into the new genius. So… during the last drought we started the habit of having, like, a container next to the sink that just, like, excess water goes into? From like, water glasses. Water bottles. Blah, blah, blah. And then that goes out and like waters a tree or something.
theresa
Yeah!
biz
And—like, it’s such a habit now. But I have really struggled with keeping my smaller plants alive, and… recently, I was cleaning out some shelf and in the back of it was this really nice brass watering can that my sister-in-law—thank you, Marika!—gave me a really long time ago! And then after we like moved and stuff it just like made its way somewhere? I pulled it out and it’s now sitting there so I can not only dump it in the big bucket—which is not usable to pour—right? Like—I can also put some of it into the watering can and I can, like, go and water my little plants!
theresa
Oh, that’s so nice!
crosstalk
Biz: I’m really trying to keep plants alive, guys. Theresa: That’s really good.
biz
It’s like a thing for me.
theresa
That’s good.
biz
Yeah! I was like, oh, that’s nice.
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Hi, One Bad Mother! This is a genius. It actually might be a fail but I’m choosing to look at it as a genius, and it’s the kind of genius that would horrify most people that I would tell— [Biz laughs.] —so of course I knew this was the place to call. Um, I was at work and during the last hour of my shift I had a sneezing fit and, well, after two kids? Uh, leaked a little bit and didn’t want to have to explain that I had to go home because I was sneezing. And so I ran to the restroom and employed my first genius, which was I always have a spare pair of underwear in my purse for these exact reasons. And then the second genius, which was—I locked the door and used the hand-dryer to dry the moisture on my pants. So again—most people will not [though laughter] understand why I was so excited to not have to go home from work and explain the whole situation and then I just solved it and took care of myself, and… yeah! I felt like that was a win. A very… maybe… sad win, but a win nonetheless. [Biz laughs.] So this early into 2020, I will take it. [Biz laughs.] Thank you for the show and for telling me that I’m doing a good job even when these things happen. Bye!
biz
These things happen all the time! You’re doing a great job!
theresa
Good job.
biz
You are doing a great job. I hate that we can’t walk around sharing stories like that.
theresa
I know!
biz
‘Cause it’s like—statistically, so many people at your work right now have a similar issue.
theresa
Yes.
biz
‘K? And those sneezing attacks? That’s no joke. That’s no joke. And like—and in terms of trying to keep [though laughter] everything where it’s supposed to be! You are doing… an amazing job.
theresa
Yes. You are.
biz
I mean, for real.
theresa
Yeah.
biz
Failures!
clip
[Dramatic orchestral music plays in the background.] Theresa: [In a voice akin to the Wicked Witch of the West] Fail. Fail. Fail. FAIL! [Timpani with foot pedal engaged for humorous effect.] Biz: [Calmly] You suck! [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective failures of the week.]
biz
Fail me, Theresa.
theresa
I mentioned last week I think? That Curtis was asking for alcohol at soccer.
biz
Yep!
theresa
So the saga continues.
biz
Oh!
theresa
I was getting him from his speech therapist last week. [Biz laughs.] And… she said, you know? He’s been saying he likes to drink alcohol. And I went—hahahahahahahahaha! [Biz laughs.] And she’s like, yeah, I—I was gonna email you but then I thought maybe I won’t email about this. [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.] And she said—he says that he used to drink alcohol, but he doesn’t anymore. [Laughs.]
biz
[Through laughter] Oh my god.
theresa
Then he said, “My daddy drinks alcohol and my mommy drinks wine.” [Biz laughs.] And I— [Laughs.] I was like—and no—no response was needed other than laughing and oh, well, and… you know. He heard—whatever. But I—what I said was—well, his dad doesn’t drink. So—which is true! But then I was like—well, but I do drink wine. [Both laugh.]
biz
[Through laughter] Goodbye! [Laughs.]
theresa
[Through laughter] Okay, thanks! Thanks for letting us know. I don’t give him alcohol, I swear. I don’t think he knows what that is!
crosstalk
Theresa: I know. I just—I don’t—[Laughs.] Biz: Oh. God. I—there’s nothing like—
biz
Like, sometimes you’re like, eh, it’s cute once. But then you’re like, oh god. Why—I know.
theresa
It’s like—and it’s like—the thing where you’re pretending—you’re—you’re trying to prove that you’re not crazy? Like the—like the guy who like wrote a book about going to, like, an—like, getting himself in—like—put in an insane asylum and then being unable to get back out ‘cause like, once you’re—once people think you’re insane it’s like really hard to convince people— [Biz laughs.] —that you’re not? And it’s like that! It’s like this feeling of like—I’m like—I don’t wanna like… I don’t wanna like make a—like, I don’t want anyone to think this is a thing! But it’s also totally weird!
crosstalk
Biz: Yeah! Oh. I am—well. There ya go. Whoop! Theresa: [Laughs.] Yep! Yep. Yeah!
biz
Just… slippery slope.
theresa
Yup. [Biz laughs.]
biz
Pulling a little thread. Okay. Friday— [Theresa laughs.] Katy Belle announced [though laughter] she wanted, uh, to cut her hair off. She’s like me. Can I get it done, like, as soon as possible. So—eh, I looked around for like, y’know, kid’s haircutting places and I had the slight question of—eh, should I take her to my person? Yeah, I don’t know!
theresa
Is it time yet? Yeah.
biz
Is it time? I don’t know. So… instead I just make it at a little place that I—y’know, we’ve been before. But a really long time ago. And she wanted to get, like, a shaggy bob. And… guys? It’s adorable. The fail is the moment we got there and opened the door, it hit me—we are not at this place anymore. This is too young for Katy Belle.
crosstalk
Theresa: These are lit—this is a little kid—yeah. Biz: It is full of like—
biz
—little kids and like seats that look like horses and there’s just—there’s no place to sit!
theresa
Yeah.
biz
And because everything is designed for kids to be on the floor, like, Llama, Llama, I Love You—whatever’s playing— [Theresa laughs.] —and like—I mean, it’s… kids are like, coming in and out every ten minutes just getting their hair buzzed off? And I just was like—I mean, we just—we walked in, y’know, ding ding ding! The doorbell. And I say, Katy Belle? I’m really sorry. [Theresa laughs.] This is… not—she was like—yeah. I mean, you can just like see her face. And it was like, all, like, little boys getting their hair cut. Right? Like, it was so many things did not feel mature. Uh—
theresa
Not what she was going for!
biz
Not what she was going for. [Theresa laughs.] Luckily, the woman who cut her hair did an amazing job.
theresa
Oh, good.
biz
But I was like—we’ll never do that again, Katy. [Laughs.]
crosstalk
Theresa: Yeah. That was your last little kid haircut. Yeah. Yeah. Awwww. Sorry. Biz: Goodbye to the last of the cheapo haircuts. But—oh, poor baby girl. I know.
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Hi! I’m calling with a fail. That was supposed to be a genius. [Biz laughs.] ‘Cause I have a two-year-old and she’s funny and smart and she wants to talk to things. Things that aren’t—able to respond to her. Like—lights! And trees! And so, y’know, I thought I was fostering her creativity by making voices for these different things— [Biz laughs.] —and, y’know, engaging with her. But after a while, different voices get boring. So one day, she decides to talk to the sky. She says—hey, sky! And I respond, [with an extremely exaggerated drawl] “Yeah, Penny?” [Biz laughs.] Guess what sky’s voice is now? [Exaggerated drawl] “Sky talks like this!” [Biz and Theresa both laugh; laughter renews periodically as the caller continues speaking.] [Accent continues] And because Penny likes the voice so much, she talks to the sky a lot! And I need you to understand that I’m a 32-year-old woman living in the Midwest! This is not how I sound! But is sky allowed to sound any other way? Nope! ‘Cause this is how sky sounds! If we’re in public? This is what the sky sounds like! If we’re on an airplane full of strangers? This is what the sky sounds like! [Sighs.] I’d like to believe I’m doing a good job. [Sighs.] I’m trying! I’m really trying! Thanks. Love the show.
theresa
So good.
biz
You are—you are, in fact, doing a good job. You—I—look. [Theresa laughs.] As a per—I’m pretty sure I had a fail like this once with Ellis and food talking.
theresa
Oh, yeah.
biz
But like—Stefan and I… we do this! We do exactly what you do. The Kaiser Building that my kids go to the doctor? It talks to the children. Uh, the moon talks to the children. Like, everything—they have conversations, like, all the time! And you’re right! It’s a trap! I mean, it’s a trap! You’re stuck with that, possibly forever. But—it is such a sign that you are, like, engaging with your kid. And that being silly and fun—I mean, we love that, like, Katy Belle is ten years old and, like… Stefan’ll like mess with her. Like, [deep goofy voice] Hey, Katy Belle! It’s me, the moon! And she’s like—[deep breath and nonplussed voice] Hey, moon. [Both laugh.] So like—you know. It’s like— [Laughs.] She’s like—yeah. I got it. [Theresa laughs.] [Deep, goofy voice] How are ya, Katy Belle? [Laughs.] [Regular voice] Right?! Like, I mean, I dunno. It’s—it’s—it…
theresa
Ohhhh.
biz
It may feel like a lot now, like a fail now, but I guarantee you… this—you are doing—
crosstalk
Theresa: Just keep going. Keep at it! [Laughs.] Biz: Keep doing it until—at her wedding.
biz
At her wedding. You’ll be like—[imitating caller’s Sky voice] “I’m the sky!” Right? Y’know, like—it’s—it’ll be embarrassing and scarring for—this—it’s like a fail that goes forever! And you definitely have our support. [Laughs.] Here at One Bad Mother. [Theresa laughs.]
music
“Mom Song” by Adira Amram. Mellow piano music with lyrics. You are the greatest mom I’ve ever known I love you, I love you When I have a problem, I call you on the phone I love you, I love you [Music fades out.]
biz
Music: Quiet, low-key jazz piano music plays in background. One Bad Mother is supported in part by Franklin & Emily.
theresa
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biz
Light enough for your little one to lift and carry, and fully-assembled to save you [though laughter] precious time and effort. Visit FranklinEmily.com to see how their kids’ furniture will complement the aesthetic of your home. Use code “badmother” at checkout for 15% off your first purchase. [Music continues for a few seconds, then fades out.]
biz
Hey, Theresa! Let’s call someone today! [Cheery acoustic guitar music with choral voices plays briefly.]
biz
Theresa! This week we are talking to Molly Bloom, who is the host, co-producer, and co-creator of Brains On!, a science podcast for kids and curious adults; as well as Smash Boom Best, a debate show for kids and families. Welcome, Molly!
molly bloom
Thank you for having me!
biz
Oh, thank you so much for joining us! I just wanna, like, jump into a debate! Uh— [Laughs.] [All laugh.] Which do you prefer?! But—but before I do that, we wanna ask you what we ask our guests, which is: who lives in your house?
molly
Well, I live in my house with my husband and my four-year-old daughter. And a very grumpy cat.
biz
[Whooping lightly] Grumpy cat! Oh, that is gonna tie in so nicely to a question I have for you later— [Molly laughs.] —in our discussion when we get into Smash Boom Best. But [though laughter] we will start with Brains On! So—Brains On!—for anybody who maybe doesn’t have kids or isn’t a curious adult—shame on you—there— [Laughs.] Brains On! is this absolutely brilliant, uh, science podcast and I guess I wanna just start with… how did you get into making podcasts geared towards kids or—y’know, I don’t wanna say “for just kids” ‘cause I—my husband and I love the podcast. But how did you do that and how did you come up with the idea for Brains On!?
molly
Sure! Yeah! So… you know, Brains On! started as a side project that I made with my two coproducers, Sanden and Marc, who still work on the show with me. And… y’know, frankly we were, like, a little bored at our other job— [Biz laughs.] —our day job. [Laughs.] We all worked, y’know, in public radio in his room, and uh—we wanted sort of a creative outlet and… I had always been super interested in making stuff for kids because—I just—I was always a camp counselor— [Biz laughs.] —and I took a—like—a lot of education classes in college and, like, taught in schools and stuff and… just thought kids were so awesome and smart? Since I really wanted to make something for that, those people. Those really smart kids. And so we just started talking about how to… make something that doesn’t talk down to kids. That features them in a really positive way? That shows how smart they are? And is also something that parents wouldn’t be really annoyed by? [Biz laughs.] So those sort of are like three things we wanted to do? And so we just—we decided that, y’know, science would be a really good way to sort of highlight different areas of interest that we knew kids had and different talents that they had. And sort of that natural curiosity and inquisitiveness. So that’s how we settled on science!
biz
I gotta tell ya—ya—ya nailed all three. I also have the mind of a 12-year-old at times— [Molly laughs.] —and think—so like—a lot of your—the titles get me right away. The—y’know, we were big fans of the gas episode; the internal—the pooting. [Molly laughs.] That was…big—big fans! It really is… fun and not insulting and… my daughter—as a result—who listens a lot. She—y’know, she’s at an age where like she has my like original iPod [though laughter]. [Molly laughs.] The only thing it can do is download podcasts? [Laughs.] So, y’know, we hooked her up with this one and then from there it’s branched out to the other podcasts that you have—she, in fact, was the one who was like—oh! Yeah. They have a new podcast on history. [Laughs.] [Molly laughs.] Which we’ll talk about, too! But—I was like, oh, really?! Thank you, Katy Belle! She’ll bust out facts that I love that I can be, like—nope! She’s—there’s—she’s right. [Laughs.] ‘Cause I know she’s learned it from the show! So let me ask—she—she had a question which is: how do you guys go about picking what you’re gonna talk about and… how long does it take to make an episode?
molly
That’s a great question! Um, so yeah. So we get, y’know, hundreds of questions from kids a week? So it’s a very intense amount that—we love them and we read them all. And then about two times a year, we’ll sit down for these massive meetings. Y’know, as we read them throughout the year we’re flagging them. We’re seeing trends emerge. And we’ll have these meetings where we sit down and we sketch out sort of the next six months of episodes. So… sometimes there’ll be super unique questions that we’ve never heard before. So, like, y’know… one kid wrote in with—if there was a lake of lemonade, would it rain lemonade? And it’s like—oh! That’s a great question! So we—
biz
That is a great question! [Laughs.]
molly
[Laughs.] You know? And sometimes there will be, like, oh, all of a sudden we have all of these questions about body odor [though laughter] that come in.
biz
Mm-hm. Yeah!
molly
Where like, we should probably do a body odor episode! [Biz laughs.] Um, so that’s sort of how we pick. And then we also wanna make sure we’re doing different areas of science? So that we’re not—like, we could do an—a show that was only about animals, with the amount of questions we get about animals? But we wanna make sure we’re also doing, like, technology and engineering and physics and getting into all the different kind of branches of science. So that’s how we do it! And we’re like so lucky. We feel like we will never run out of topics.
biz
Children will have questions forever. [Laughs.]
molly
Uh-huh!
biz
Just walk into my house. [Laughs.] Just like, what? Okay. Uh, maybe. Which then leads to my question—how much do you guys know about the topic before you guys make the episodes and… have you ever been like—really?! It that true?! Like— [Laughs.]
crosstalk
Biz: Or are you just like—y’know. Molly: I think that— [Laughs.]
molly
Yeah. We’re like that for every episode pretty much. [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.] ‘Cause really—what—our producer Manica who joined us—uh, who joined our team fairly recently? She has a science background. But the rest of us do not have science backgrounds. And so we have picked a lot of topics. We’re like, oh, that’d probably be pretty easy to answer! [Biz laughs.] And then we start researching it and talking to scientists? We’re like—oh, no. What have we done? [Biz and Theresa laugh.] This is so complicated! But we keep trying anyway. Like, we did one about “why is the ocean salty?” Which should be like—yeah! That’s, like, fairly straightforward. And then we talk to a scientist who was like, I teach this to my graduate-level chemistry class. So maybe…
biz
Well, how do you—you guys really do a good job at explaining incredibly complicated and complex topics. How do you guys do that? Y’know? I mean—is that just because you have found really great guests? Or… yeah!
molly
Yeah! I mean, the super-smart scientists that we talk to are super… are key to everything? Without them—‘cause they have to teach us before we can sort of relay that information back to the families who listen. So that’s huge. We find really awesome scientists to help us. And then just… I think embracing ambiguity? [Biz laughs.] Because there’s a lot of things that kids ask that don’t have a straightforward answer and that scientists have not figured out yet. And… we’re very comfortable saying that! And saying, like, there is not a good answer for this! Here’s some things people think! But you know, you could help find the answer one day if you wanna become a scientist! Um, or just, y’know, think about it and turn it over in your head and come up with you—what you think is, like, also an exciting possibility. So we like to show that there’s lots of shades of grey for lots of different things.
biz
Yeah. Did—is there, like, a topic that comes to mind that you either were like—oh, how on earth are we going to explain this? [Molly laughs.] Or… that you all—and/or—that you were also like—this is the coolest thing I’ve ever heard! [Laughs.]
molly
Mmmm. Oh man, there’s so many! Um— [Biz laughs.] —I mean, I think—one of the… things that… you know, was very—that’s always very challenging for us is like… molecular physics? [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.] Those kinds of things? So like, we were talking about how paint sticks to a wall? It was like, oh my gosh. You know. So we like… it—we—we tried to think of like a fun visual metaphor so we came up with like, these molecule party and there’s different friend groups at the party— [Biz laughs.] —who are kind of like engaging in different ways, and those were the different kinds of bonds? You know. And it—it was fun and funny and I think it got the point across. Another one that was, like, really hard was how batteries work? Which was like—very, very difficult to explain! [Laughs.]
biz
Yeah! No, yeah!
molly
Yeah! So, it’s just… trying to think of, like, strange metaphors that’ll stick in your brain? That even if… you couldn’t say exactly how a battery works you could probably, like, recall this strange metaphor we came up with of, like, a dog running around the—a lake? And that’ll maybe help you—when it comes up in class later or something—you could be like, oh yeah! It’s kinda like that dog— [Biz laughs.] I heard of! [Molly laughs.]
biz
No, it’s—it’s incredibly genius. I remember—we—after listening to some of the ones that involved atoms and such—the discussion that kept going on in the car that I had no way to respond to—or—like, I could myself—myself—could not get my head around—was the fact that we’re never actually touching? [Laughs.] Anything? [Molly laughs.] That, like, atoms, like—that you’re not really touching it. [Laughs.] It just was like—I don’t know what to think about this.
crosstalk
Molly: Oh my gosh. Yes. Biz: Just—Yeah! They do! Molly: Kids love that stuff! Like, I mean—I think sort of like—
molly
Y’know, some—some things that a lot of scientists you talk to who deal with sort of, like, vision and how we perceive the world—y’know—there is a—it’s all created in your brain. Right? So you don’t actually—like, color doesn’t actually exist? It’s something that our brain processes and like different animals can perceive colors that we cannot. [Biz laughs.] And dogs can smell things that we cannot. And so there’s all these things that are out there that we can’t really perceive? Which I think is just… really cool to think about? That there’s a lot we’re missing? And so, like, to engage in the world in as many different ways as you can to sort of—try to piece together those things that we’re missing? Sort of blows my mind and I like to think about that. [Laughs.]
biz
Oh yeah! No, that’s a—that’s a—it feels like kids’ brains—like, this is the time! Where they haven’t had limits put on their thinking yet, of like, what is and isn’t. Right? Like… uh, I love it. Alright. We’re gonna move into the other show that I truly love, which is Smash Boom Best. Uh, it’s like a debate podcast. I mean, it includes science. It include—you learn things. But like, I think we were on—Katy Belle and I were driving around and we were listening to multiple episodes and I was like—oh my god, this is genius. They are— [Molly laughs.] —teaching debate! Like, actual rules of debate! And like… how you would score points in a debate that—I mean, it was just like—I… love this podcast. It is one of my favorites. And usually—
molly
Oh, thanks.
biz
—it’s where you guys take two topics and debate them! Like, cats versus dogs or… y’know, dragons vers—I—now I can’t remember. But we—
molly
Yeah. Dragons versus unicorns.
biz
Yes. Dragons versus unicorns. How did that one come about? How did you shift into that?
molly
Sure. Yeah. That’s—that’s a—a true spinoff of Brains On! Because on Brains On! we used to do these debate episodes where Marc and Sanden would debate, like, bridges versus tunnels. Uh, octopuses versus dolphins. And those were— [Biz laughs.] —some of our most popular episodes? And so we were like… this should be its own show. It’s, like, so specific and people seem to love it so much. So we spun it off into Smash Boom Best and really created a very standard format for all the different debates. So it starts with this declaration of greatness where— [Biz laughs.] —that’s kind of where all the—the facts are. Where the debater—who’s an adult, always, and usually like—sometimes a comedian or another smart, funny person. And um, they’ll sort of lay out, like, the facts and the history behind that. And then there’s like an improvised round, which is always just, like, pure silliness. And then… one where people have to—we call it the micro-round. [Biz laughs.] Where they have to present an argument in like a creative way, like a letter to the editor. Or a workout video or something. [Biz laughs.] And then there’s a kid who’s judging the debate. And they decide who came out on top for that particular debate! And—and—what we wanted to do with that show was like, for a slightly older audience than smash—than—than Brains On!? So it’s just like—there’s—it’s a—maybe, like, a little snarkier than Brains On!— [Biz laughs.] And like, the humor’s more dialed up. And—but it’s like—it’s really fun to work on that show. Like, I genuinely am delighted by the debaters and all the laughter you hear is real ‘cause I think they’re so funny.
biz
Oh, yeah. No. It’s—it’s great. Is that another show where… you’re pulling topics to debate from listener write-ins? Or—
molly
Mm-hm!
biz
Yeah?
molly
Yeah. We get tons—
crosstalk
Biz: Oh, I bet! I bet! Molly: —of suggestions. [Laughs.] For Smash Boom Best.
molly
Like, all the time. Um—it’s delightful. [Biz laughs.]
biz
How much anger response do you get from them? How passionate—
molly
We also get some anger. [Laughs.]
biz
‘Cause I—I have—‘cause I myself—Katy Belle and I were a little outraged by “Cats versus Dogs.” Uh—
molly
I understand!
biz
As cat people, we were like—that guy’s just talking about cat videos! [Laughs.] [Molly laughs.] Does he know what a cat is? Uh—but so—but—that made me think, like—I was like, does this guy even like cats? But it made me think of—oh my god, what sort of response do you get from listeners regarding some of these?
molly
Yes, people feel very strongly. [Biz laughs.] I think that—actually—the one that we’ve gotten the most response? Is, uh, “Books versus Movies.”
biz
Yeah!
molly
Team Book was very upset that movies won. And we hear a lot from Team Book— [Biz laughs.] —that books should’ve won that. It’s not a competition.
biz
I love it! I… love it. Was there ever one that you personally were super invested in that you were like— [Molly laughs.] —obviously. And that you, yourself, were like—I’m walking away from this! This is garbage! [Laughs.]
molly
Uh—honestly? I felt very strongly about “Rice versus Noodles.” [Biz laughs.] Um—I really love noodles. And I… I mean, Joy did such a good job debating for rice that I couldn’t begrudge her winning. She did a wonderful job. But—I’m Team Noodles. [Sighs.] So that was—you know. I felt that one deeply.
biz
Well, what I love about it, though, is that—it is about debate! Right? I mean, this is about—this is how competitive debaters and—and people—it—you sometimes may not agree with what came out. But who made the better argument? Which I—again—I just think is… a gift. Do you guys help the guests with their research? Or… when… somebody’s selected to be a debater, are they in charge of their own?
molly
Yeah! You know, it kinda depends on the debater and how much time they have in their schedule? Um—I mean, we edit their debates so it sometimes will help guide them—to spare that—and we’ll—y’know, say “try not to use ad hominem attacks if possible!” [Biz laughs.] Which are when you’re just calling someone a name, [though laughter] basically. Um—but y’know, we did introduce the State of Debate segment in our second season? Where we actually do teach about logical fallacies? Different ones? And other, y’know, debating techniques. And that’s been—like—super fun and we’ve heard from several parents of where their kids have called them out on [though laughter] logical fallacies they’re using?
biz
Yesss!
molly
So I’m very—I’m very—that’s very gratifying. [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.]
biz
Well, Molly—we cannot thank you enough for joining us. And… for you and your whole team creating this network of podcasts. Again, there is a newer one—Forever Ago—which is a great idea for sort of a history podcast. I was listening to the “Emojis” episode—
molly
Oh, yeah! [Laughs.]
biz
—today. And… I just—I hope you guys continue to create more and more podcasts like this! Thank you so much!
molly
Thank you! Thank you to you and Katy Belle for listening!
biz
Oh! Absolutely. We will link everybody up to where they can learn about Brains On!. They also have an amazing email mailing list that sends out ideas and further ways to explore the things they talk about. Thank you so much, and I hope you continue to have an amazing day.
molly
Thanks, you too!
biz
Okay. Bye-bye!
music
“Telephone,” by “Awesome.” Down-tempo guitar and falsetto singing. Brainwaves send a message: Pick up the phone (When you, I call) Arm is moving now, no longer stone (When you, I call) Hand reaches out with a will of its own (When you, I call) [Music fades out.]
promo
Music: Mid-tempo, upbeat music. Jo Firestone: Hi, I'm Jo Firestone. Manolo Moreno: And I'm Manolo Moreno. Jo: And we're the hosts of Dr. Gameshow, which is a podcast where we play games submitted by listeners, regardless of quality or content, with in-studio guests and callers from all over the world! Manolo: And you can win a custom magnet. Jo: A custom magnet! Manolo: Subscribe now to make sure you get our next episode. Jo: What's an example of a game, Manolo? Manolo: "Pokémon or Medication?" Jo: How do you play that? Manolo: You have to guess if something's a Pokémon name— [Next two lines overlapping] Jo: Or medication? Manolo: —or a medication. Manolo: First-time listener, if you want to listen to episode highlights and also know how to participate, follow Dr. Gameshow on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Jo: We'd love to hear from you! Manolo: Yeah, it's really fun! Jo: For the whole family! We'll be every other Wednesday starting March 13th, and we're coming to MAX FUN! Manolo: Snorlax. Jo: Pokémon? Manolo: Yes. Jo: Nice!
promo
[Sound of a gavel banging three times.] Music: Upbeat music plays under dialogue. Speaker 1: Judge John Hodgman ruled in my favor. Speaker 2: Judge John Hodgman ruled in my friend’s favor. Speaker 3: Judge John Hodgman ruled in my favor. Judge John Hodgman: I’m Judge John Hodgman. You’re hearing the voices of real litigants. Real people, who have submitted disputes to my internet court, at the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I hear their cases. I ask them questions—they’re good ones—and then I tell them who’s right and who’s wrong. Speaker 1: Thanks to Judge John Hodgman’s ruling, my dad has been forced to retire one of the worst Dad Jokes of all time. Speaker 3: Instead of cutting his own hair with a Flowbee, my husband has his hair cut professionally. Speaker 4: I have to join a community theatre group. Speaker 5: And my wife has stopped bringing home wild animals. Judge John Hodgman: It’s the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Find it every Wednesday at MaximumFun.org, or wherever you download podcasts. [Sound of a gavel banging three times.] Speaker 1: Thanks, Judge John Hodgman! [Music ends.]
biz
[Singing] Woooo! It’s fun when Biz gets to geek out! About guests. [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.]
theresa
And cats.
biz
And cats! I did. Woo! Go back and listen to that “Cats versus Dog” debate. There was no supporting argument for cats at all! [Both laugh.] She’s never gonna come back. Do you know what else we always need supporting evidence for? That is… listening to a mom having a breakdown.
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Hi, One Bad Mother! I think that this is a breakdown? I just took my two-year-old to her checkup with a new doctor in our town, and my five-year-old came with us and… he has some sensory processing issues and other stuff going on that we’re—y’know, working on and aware of. And I—I let the doctor know that? As she was collecting history and—she—y’know, just—you could tell that she was overwhelmed by my kids? In the room and… basically, she ended up just saying to me, y’know, you better—get—like, deal with these things now because if you don’t deal with them then your kids are gonna go to school and they’re not gonna—they’re gonna need to be on IEPs. They’re not gonna have anything that they need and you really need to deal with this now. And just was so judgmental? And… made me feel so bad! And I—I am dealing with stuff. And I just felt like—y’know, my kid was like… laying—on—on the ground underneath my chair. Like, kicking the chair as I was sitting there. And… I just want people who are there to help us to actually be there to help us? And… not cut me down or cut us down and make me feel like I’m just a shitty mom. And I know that I’m not? And… I had no one else to say this to. [Laugh slightly, but without humor.] Um… right now. And… I needed to say it. So thanks for having this line. [Sniffs.] You’re all doing a good job and so am I. Bye.
biz
Yeah, you are!
theresa
Wow.
biz
Yeah! You have… every right to be upset by that interaction!
theresa
Yeah. I’m really glad—first of all—that you’re aware of how wrong that assessment was? By that doctor. Like, because we are trained to listen to our doctors and they are there to help us! And a lot of times, they’re very helpful! And this doctor was not.
biz
Mm-mm.
theresa
Helpful. That was probably harmful! I mean—
biz
I agree!
theresa
It’s not okay—it’s not okay.
biz
[Laughs.] Do you know how you know that you are aware of what’s happening with your children? One of them is kicking your seat.
theresa
Yeah!
biz
You know what I mean? Like, that—to me—is always the—like—when you see somebody out struggling? Or with a kid that’s “more” or whatever? There’s always [though laughter] that, like… well. What are they doing?! Are they not even aw—yeah! I’m pretty sure they’re aware! And I’m pretty sure they’re making efforts. Right? To help their child. ‘K? And I—I just—a lot of work isn’t visible.
theresa
Yeah.
biz
To strangers.
theresa
Yeah!
biz
I am so sorry, ‘cause it brings up—for me—just, like… the fact that—like, any time I’d have to take Ellis with Kat—to, like, one of Katy Belle’s doctor appointments or one of my own doctor appointments? I never knew what was gonna happen. It was always gonna be unpredictable. It was always gonna be loud. It was always gonna be me having to focus solely on Ellis and his movement and, like… all of that. And… there was no way to do it without feeling—going into it already feeling self-judgment and guilt and, like, whatever? And then—that sort of response? I mean—the kindness of nurses and doctors just, like, smiling at me? And being like—that’s okay. Y’know?
theresa
Yeah, totally!
biz
It goes—
theresa
It goes such a long way.
biz
Such a long way!
theresa
It’s so appreciated.
biz
I am… so sorry.
theresa
I feel like I… have had times at doctors’ offices that have been so hard with Grace? That I then… felt, like, deterred from going back. To the doctor. And… that’s not good! And it’s not okay! Like, we deserve to access those services! And we need access to appropriate healthcare! And… we just have to keep trying! But I think—y’know—being aware of… those shortcomings is so important and I’ve gotten to the point where I—I start expecting certain things? Like, I start knowing—somebody’s gonna say something to me that’s gonna make me feel judged. And I’m just—I know that’s coming. And I’m—I’m—when I hear it, instead of believing it—
biz
Right!
theresa
I’m going to remind myself, oh yes. That is that thing that I knew was going to happen. [Laughs.] And I also know that it’s incorrect.
biz
Yeah!
theresa
And that, y’know, I’m doing—I’m doing a good job. And you are doing a good job! You’re doing amazing! And you—just like you said! You know what you’re doing! And also—by the way—sometimes there isn’t that much to do!
biz
Yeah! [Laughs.] That’s right!
theresa
Like, it’s not—this is not your fault?
biz
No!
theresa
Your kid’s behaviors are—they are what they are? And your—your kid is communicating the way they know how? And eventually they’re gonna learn to communicate in other ways too? This is not all you. Like—it’s—
biz
And also—what a bunch of, like… foreboding about when they go into school!
theresa
I know!
crosstalk
Biz: I was just like—yeah! Theresa: So what if they do need an IEP?
theresa
That’s why we have IEPs! And IEPs are really helpful if you have kids who need IEPs! [Laughs.] Like—
biz
And like… you know, a—what? Now she’s gonna make—this doctor’s gonna make a commentary on whether or not the school will be able to handle your—I mean, like—
crosstalk
Biz: There was so much in that! Theresa: Yeah. Not okay. Yeah. Not okay.
biz
None of it okay! You are doing… a great job.
theresa
Yes.
biz
And we all see you.
theresa
We do.
biz
And we all have your back!
theresa
Yeah, we do.
biz
We know.
theresa
Yep.
biz
Theresa?
theresa
Yes.
biz
What else do we know? [Theresa laughs.] What did we learn today? Well—look at this bookend of an episode! Right? Like, you got—the Dr. Mom and then the—[makes disgusted noise] doctor! Episode. I think what I learned was just that… yay, doctors.
theresa
Yes.
biz
And… that… it’s a lot put on us when kids are suddenly in our house? That we’re supposed to… suddenly be experts at all of it.
theresa
Yeah, it is. Yep.
biz
And… we’re not—we’re all learning.
theresa
Yes.
biz
And so to judge somebody on how they’re taking care of their family… and not knowing all the details? Is not helpful! [Laughs.]
theresa
Nope! [Both laugh.]
biz
And probably a waste of energy.
theresa
[Through laughter] Yeah.
biz
And also—science is great! And we can start out—you know—kids and ourselves early. [Laughs.] Loving the science with really great podcasts like Brains On!. So—also? Cats are okay! They’re not, like, the only—dogs aren’t, like, all things and cats are [makes vomiting noise]. Cats are nice! I have three. [Theresa laughs.] One’s named Steve. And he is a comfort. And a joy. Everybody? [Laughs.] You’re doing a great job. You really are? This is incredibly hard? There’s so much to weed through and try and figure out if we know or don’t know. Do we ask or not ask? Y’know? I—I—it—it’s like a horrible, thick soup. And uh… you can’t eat your way out of it. That’s a good one. [Both laugh.] Parenting: a horrible thick soup that you can’t eat your way out of! Not my best t-shirt idea. But you’re all doing a good job! You really are. And we really see you. Theresa? You are doing… a good job.
theresa
Thanks, Biz. So are you.
biz
Thank you. And we will talk to you guys next week.
crosstalk
Biz and Theresa: Byeee!
music
“Mama Blues” by Cornbread Ted and the Butterbeans. Strumming acoustic guitar with harmonica and lyrics. I got the lowdown momma blues Got the the lowdown momma blues Gots the lowdown momma blues The lowdown momma blues Gots the lowdown momma blues Got the lowdown momma blues You know that’s right [Music fades somewhat, plays in background of dialogue.]
biz
We’d like to thank MaxFun; our producer, Hannah Smith; our husbands, Stefan Lawrence and Jesse Thorn; our perfect children, who provide us with inspiration to say all these horrible things; and of course, you, our listeners. To find out more about the songs you heard on today’s podcast and more about the show, please go to MaximumFun.org/onebadmother. For information about live shows, our book and press, please check out OneBadMotherPodcast.com.
theresa
One Bad Mother is a member of the Maximum Fun family of podcasts. To support the show go to MaximumFun.org/donate. [Music continues for a while before fading out.]
speaker 2
Comedy and culture.
speaker 3
Artist owned—
speaker 4
—Audience supported.
About the show
One Bad Mother is a comedy podcast hosted by Biz Ellis about motherhood and how unnatural it sometimes is. We aren’t all magical vessels!
Join us every week as we deal with the thrills and embarrassments of motherhood and strive for less judging and more laughing.
Call in your geniuses and fails: 206-350-9485. For booking and guest ideas, please email onebadmother@maximumfun.org. To keep up with One Bad Mother on social media, follow @onebadmothers on Twitter and Instagram.
Get in touch with the show
onebadmother@maximumfun.org
@OneBadMothers
@onebadmothers
How to listen
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