Transcript
biz
This is Biz. I’m a part-time working mom with two full-blown kids.
theresa
And I’m Theresa. I have a family business, two young kids, and a toddler.
biz
This is a show about life after giving life. Don’t listen with your kids, ‘cause there will be swears. This… is One Bad Mother.
music
“Summoning the Rawk” by Kevin MacLeod. Driving electric guitar and heavy drums. [Continues through dialogue.]
biz
This week on One Bad Mother—liking parenting comes in waves. Cowabunga, dude! [Theresa laughs.] [Laughs.] Plus, Biz wonders if a witness makes it real, and Theresa takes the dogs for a walk.
crosstalk
Biz and Theresa: [Cheering] Woooo! [Laughs.]
biz
Is this where we’ve gotten so broken that we just can’t even get through an intro anymore?
theresa
Yes! [Laughs.]
biz
Ta-da! We’re here, guys! [Laughs.] We’ve done it! Theresa? How are you? [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective weeks.]
theresa
I’m okay, I guess? [Laughs.] Uh, a lot of IEPs in my life, guys. Um—
biz
Whew! She’s the queen of the IEPs.
theresa
More on that later. What I wanna talk about right now is Gracie’s new shoes.
biz
Okay.
theresa
So… she was carrying stuff in from Jesse’s car the other day and I noticed in her arms, a pair of hot pink Doc Martens.
biz
What?!
theresa
With the zipper side and I—I tried to be cool.
crosstalk
Biz: Yeah! You tried. No. Theresa: I tried to act like this was no big deal.
theresa
Guys, I went through a very serious Ani diFranco phase when I was in high school? [Biz laughs.] And Doc Martens mean a lot to me? Like, I don’t wear them now, but like, they were very important to me as a coming-of-age person. And these Docs that Gracie was holding are way cuter than any that I ever knew about! Or maybe they didn’t even exist when I was a teen. And Gracie’s very—our kids are very lucky, because their dad, Jesse, is always at thrift stores and flea markets and out in the world and he’s always finding cool clothes and shoes for them. And apparently he found these and they’re her size— [Biz gasps.] —and I just, like, nearly—like, again, I tried to be cool. But like, she want—I was like, oh, do you want to wear these today? Like— [though laughter] this morning.
biz
[With exaggerated casualness] These old things?
theresa
Yeah, and she’s like yeah! I do! And I was like, okay. And so then I launched into this story to her and Oscar about like— [Biz laughs.] —when I was a kid and like how badly I wanted my own pair of Doc Martens? And you know that—at the time, they’re—I can’t remember. They were like, $100?
crosstalk
Theresa: They’re still like $100. Yeah! Biz: They’re still—yeah. They were expensive! Yeah!
theresa
And like, I waited for so long—like, probably a year. And like my parents found like a special place where we could drive an hour to, like, get a special discount on them because they sold—sold them, like, wholesale or something? [Biz laughs.] And I still remember that day of my dad taking me and like getting to pick out my Docs and like how— [though laughter] how important that was. And then I wore them for, like, three years. Every single day for like three years. And… my kids loved this story!
crosstalk
Theresa: Which was very cute! Biz: Oh, that’s so good!
theresa
And then Gracie went off to school, and then I realized, after spending, like, all the time I spent like zipping her into these things, and like, they’re old—broken shoelaces, we need new shoelaces. Complicated to get these things on. I realize, like, oh—she has a doctor’s appointment later today! [Biz laughs.] I’m gonna like have to do this again! And then she also has, like, this group thing that she does later that’s at a gym where you have to, like, take everything off? So I was like—wow. I—I clearly was so excited about this that I didn’t even pause to think, like, is this a good day? For us to do this. But whatever.
biz
Way to embrace your teen rebel-hood and not care! [Theresa laughs.] About the limitations these shoes—Mom Theresa would have been like, you can’t enjoy Doc Martens! Because we’re gonna have to take ‘em on, like, 18 times today! But not cool, swept-up, once-you-were-a-self Theresa. She like—we’re gonna gooooo for it!
theresa
Just so spontaneous.
biz
Spontaneous!
theresa
Yeah.
biz
I fucking love it.
theresa
That’s me.
biz
That is you! [Both laugh.]
theresa
How are you?
biz
I’m alright. [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] I’m here. So here’s my—uh, my question that I ponder. I have spoken often on the show that—I have delightful children.
theresa
Yes.
biz
They’re a delight. Ellis is a delight! He is sweet, he is smart, he is kind, he is funny. He’s also more. Uh, and no one—it can feel at times—sees the more, so then I feel crazy. And I believe the comparison is I live in a haunted house; people come over and say, your house is beautiful, and then they leave and the walls bleed. So we did a playdate this weekend. And… the parents said—asked us—does—does Ellis have a lot of playdate experience? And Stefan was there too and we both were like, no. Nope. This is really, like, maybe his fifth playdate. Ellis is six, just so you guys know. He’s in kindergarten. We never really did playdates before because of the “more.” He has very large emotional reactions. It’s a lot. Didn’t adapt well, like, these are all things he’s working on and getting better at, and we’ve just started introducing the playdates. And they have been hit or miss. And—
theresa
All at your house?
biz
Mm, sometimes at my house. This one we decided we were gonna try the park, and it was with a girl from his class, and again—we were just trying out the temperaments. ‘Cause he had previously been doing them with some of his friends that are boys, and… that had gone—again—sometimes really well. And it’s funny, the kids that we picked? Are like, the most laid-back, easygoing kids.
theresa
That’s very wise.
biz
It is wise! So there’s a lot of like—but the—the counter to that is… when, then, Ellis loses it, and as we talked about on the last show, right now we’re in a phase of—when we lose it, the entire experience was awful. So the friend is awful. The playdate was awful.
theresa
Everything is awful. Yeah.
biz
And it’s loud and it’s big and it’s tantrum-y and it—I mean, it’s the whole nine yards. And this happened at this very nice playdate.
crosstalk
Biz: That was outside at the park. Theresa: The one at the park? Okay.
biz
And the parents were very good about it. You could tell the kid was like… y’know, why are you yelling at me? Right? Like, I mean, y’know? Because I mean, he’s like—no! She’s awful! And then, I mean, y’know, like—it’s—it’s—it’s a whole scene. He might as well have walked over and punched a kid and you’re like, whoa! Where did that come from?! How am I supposed to react?! Right? Like, I—and so… y’know, we got through it and they left because it was—that was one of the triggers was that it was over. And so they left and they were very nice. They were really nice and kind and I appreciate them very much for all of their responses. But I felt… like… just a big open raw nerve. Katy Belle was with us. This was not good for her. I could see that this just, like… played on her. Stefan got—did a good job of like calming Ellis down and getting him, y’know, moveable? [Laughs.] Y’know, like out? But it was funny because this parent, the—the mom, she is one of the people who at school is constantly saying, “What?! Him?! He’s such a sweet kid! He’s so special and smart!” And I’m like, he is! And so today, we’re leaving school and I’m walking with her and I say—now you get the ghost reference that I’ve made. And she goes, y’know, it’s totally fine. It’s—he’s really [though laughter] she said the word ‘special’ so many times, I was like—settle down. She’s like, he’s really special and, y’know, we just are used to our kid who rolls with stuff! And we now—we forget that not all kids roll with stuff. [Theresa sighs.] And she was so nice. And it was—it was—again, good. But I was like… do I feel like it’s more real now that it’s been witnessed? [Laughs.] Or do—like, does it make me feel better? Like, less crazy? Or… does it make me feel… worse, like, I don’t ever wanna—eh, who needs friends? People don’t need friends. [Laughs.] So I don’t know. It was just, like, a very… interesting public—and we’ve had public displays of the “more.” And we’re really working with him on—like, when he’s not up? Like, when he’s not “more” to like—like, I currently have been doing this thing where I’m like, I take my hand and I raise it up to, like, high and I go, this is the end of the world. [Laughs.]
biz
Now. Where does not being able to get doughnuts on doughnut day fall? [Laughs.] He’ll be like, oh, down here. I’m like, okay. Uh, no Mario time for a week.
crosstalk
Biz: [Strained voice] Ehhh, it’s right here. Theresa: Little higher. Yeah.
biz
Really? Really? You think that that’s the higher? Like, so we’ve been doing that and, like, trying to help him—
theresa
That’s fun.
biz
—understand the dynamics? But yeah. I just… I dunno.
theresa
Can I add to that? Just a little? ‘Cause I—I—
biz
We don’t have a guest! Let’s go on forever!
theresa
Great! No, I just—I really relate to all of this, and I think the part that I really appreciate the most about what you’re saying is, like, did this make me feel better or worse? ‘Cause I’ve definitely been in that place where… I feel it’s very freeing for other adults and other people in the world to kind of witness, like, a worst-case scenario with my kid. Because it makes me feel like… validated. And saying—and I can say, like, yeah. See? This is what I’m working with. Like, do you see it? [Laughs.]
crosstalk
Biz: Yeah! Do you see? Yeah! Theresa: Do you see how hard this is? Like—
theresa
This is—this is real! Like, this is… something real.
biz
Yeah!
theresa
And that feels like an important experience? But… sometimes the look in people’s eyes when I see them watching my kid and me in those situations? Stays with me. In a way that I don’t really have words to describe? Except that it makes me feel bad. Like, it makes me feel… alienated. In a very particular way. Like… I am… like, other.
biz
Other.
theresa
Yeah.
biz
Yeah. No. Yeah.
theresa
Even when people are being kind—I’m not even saying, like, people are giving a judgey face. But just that I’m seeing them see us.
biz
Right.
theresa
Is hard.
biz
Yeah! And then I sometimes don’t feel good about how I’ve been reacting in that situation. Like, am I—am I selling my son out by, like, going “See?!”
crosstalk
Biz: And like, oh, it’s really hard, right? Like— Theresa: Yeah! I don’t want—I don’t want—yeah!
theresa
And like, it’s so painful for them to be going through what they’re going through? Do I want other people to be there and see that? Like, it’s almost like it’s private?
crosstalk
Theresa: It’s their emotions on display. Biz: Yeah. But, like, just even the—
biz
“Now you see” feels sort of, like, I’m stepping out of my role as, y’know—
crosstalk
Theresa: Like, guardian? Yeah. Biz: —his… guardian!
biz
And into a purely selfish role of… yeah! They’re all awful! [Laughs.]
crosstalk
Theresa: Yeah! It feels like exploitative in that way? Yeah. I know what you mean. Biz: Yes! That’s the word. That’s the word. Right.
biz
Yeah. And so, like, it’s just such a—and then, y’know, you’ve gotta go home and make dinner!
theresa
Right!
biz
Which I think ties in nicely to what we’re gonna talk about today, which is—liking parenting. And riding that wave. [Laughs.]
music
Banjo strums; cheerful banjo music continues through dialogue.
theresa
Please—take a moment to remember: If you’re friends of the hosts of One Bad Mother, you should assume that when we talk about other moms, we’re talking about you.
biz
If you are married to the host of One Bad Mother, we definitely are talking about you.
theresa
Nothing we say constitutes professional parenting advice.
biz
Biz and Theresa’s children are brilliant, lovely, and exceedingly extraordinary.
theresa
Nothing said on this podcast about them implies otherwise. [Banjo music fades out.]
biz
Theresa. The wave of enjoying parenting. [Theresa laughs.] “Wave” suggests that we have no control over it. [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss the weekly topic.]
theresa
Mmm.
biz
And—
theresa
Interesting.
biz
For me, I sort of, like, am hoping that as we talk about this, like—the underlying question is… is it something that we don’t control? Like, that it—I mean, like it just… happens at times depending on mood or what’s happening around you or can we identify— [Laughs.] This is what I’m definitely not enjoying it. And this is when I definitely am enjoying it and liking it. And does either identification help? [Laughs.] Offer any solace or help. So… I’m gonna start just by saying—I—should come as no surprise to anyone. Pretty sure the last six-and-a-half, seven years on this show, I have openly spoken about liking—I’m really enjoying parenting right now! I really don’t like parenting at all right now! I have definitely surfed this wave. And I have compared it sometimes to… this experience in New York where—when I lived in New York, for many many years, I would be going to the Subway and there would be—some days, there would be this band of, like, older guys doing, like, doo-wop. Right? They’d be singing, like, “One Fine Day.” Or whatever. And—some days, I would see that and find it to be such a joy. I’d think, oh my god, they are bringing such joy into the world! This is so nice! It’s beautiful! There’d be other days I would walk through and think, this is depressing. These are older gentlemen. This is not, like… this is sad. Sad!
theresa
They’re not getting healthcare from this. Yeah.
biz
Yeah. Sadness! Right? And that— [Laughs.] Like, that—that is kind of how I feel my experience parenting has been, which does make me think—so is that controllable or—or not? Like… and… additionally, it raises the question of—is it really about liking being a parent? Or do I just… not wanna be a parent at sometimes?
theresa
Or… does life just have natural ebbs and flows and parenting is what we’re doing most of the time, so… it’s easy to, like, direct our mood at how we’re feeling about parenting?
biz
Right!
crosstalk
Biz: Like how—like how tides actually work! [Laughs.] Theresa: You know what I’m saying? [Laughs.]
biz
Like—there’s the life ebbing and flowing, sucking us into the—that’s interesting.
crosstalk
Theresa: I mean— Biz: I don’t know.
biz
What about you? You love parenting.
theresa
Right. [Biz laughs.] I mean, I do think we have control to some extent.
biz
Okay.
theresa
We have control, to some extent. By, like, caring for our own mental health. And the desire to enjoy it. And caring for ourselves, I think, allow—can allow us to find ways to actually enjoy it more. But, I think we also have a tendency to downplay external factors? That can cause so much stress and be so difficult—that really, truly are out of our control. And would make it difficult for—and that’s where I say, like, life comes in. It’s like less about parenting and more just about life. Money and… different needs. And medical stuff. And… y’know, loss. And… y’know—
crosstalk
Biz: Just the state of the world at times. Yeah. Theresa: Just life! Yes! Life.
theresa
Is like that. and I think that, y’know, with parenting, I think especially with young kids but I don’t have older kids yet so I don’t know, it feels like a lot of times my… feelings about how I’m feeling in general get misplaced into being feelings I’m having about parenting or about myself as a parent or about my kids. And… it’s really just because they’re there all the time! And they need a lot, and I’m their primary person. And I’m thinking about them all the time! So I—it’s—it’s very much—they are very much intertwined with my day-to-day life and my overall wellbeing? So it’s like—obviously there’s gonna be times where we’re off! Like, I think about yesterday. [Laughs.] Yesterday was Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s birthday observed. Y’know, we had the day off. And… it was one of those weekends where like Jesse had just gotten home from being on tour for a week, and he was adjusting to that, and that was hard. And we were adjusting to him being back. And… he didn’t realize it was a three-day weekend until Sunday night. [Biz laughs.] And he was like, so they’re just gonna be here tomorrow? [Laughs.] And I was like—yeah. So let’s make plans! [Biz laughs.] And— [though laughter] so—and, um—and, like, I had done okay through the weekend and we’d had some winds through the weekend, but like, by Monday, I just wanted to be alone! I didn’t want to be near anyone. And—that wasn’t possible, really. So… I had a hard day with my kids! Like, we did okay. We, like, managed. There was no, like, big melt—well, actually, Oscar did have a meltdown at one point. But I didn’t have a meltdown. I was fine. I made it through the day. But I was not enjoying it. I was not happy. I was not, like… yeah! I would—just wasn’t! I was just survival mode, basically, all day. And by bedtime, I was getting Curtis ready for bed, and he was, like, pretty much ready for bed and we were getting ready to do books and I just kinda tickled him and he laughed and I felt that, like… intoxication of like how cute he is? When I tickle him? And I had suddenly this weird reaction because—at the same time that I was like, oh! Like—like, enjoying it? I was realizing I hadn’t felt that all day. And I was like—I felt a twinge of guilt and then I tried to be like, y’know what? It’s a day. Like, you’re doing okay. But like, I felt—and so we played for a little bit? But I—but most days we have a little more fun like that? And I just hadn’t… it hadn’t even occurred to me to, like, be cute and fun and have fun with my kids. Like, it just—I just wasn’t in that headspace.
biz
Oh! Okay. Now, see, this is interesting. The—it didn’t occur to me to be cute and fun. Which is work and effort. I mean, it is! It’s not like, “What do you mean, you can’t just be cute and fun with your children?” Because of the things that you said prior to that! Of the… it’s the long weekend, you’re coming off of x, y, and z. Oh yeah. Those—we had a four-day holiday this weekend because they had a teacher workday.
theresa
On Friday. Okay.
biz
Katy Belle all last week was home sick.
theresa
Ohh! [Makes various sympathetic noises.]
biz
The entire week. Every single day.
theresa
Oh my god.
biz
So we… y’know, managed to escape it. Everybody but her. But we—we got through it and then here comes the four-day weekend. And… so I—I’m with you. There’s this thing of, like, no, we’ve got this and there’s some moments here and there. But overall by the time we got to the weekend, and Monday, I was… like you, I—there’s just nothing left? It’s so interesting. This idea of… our children are just around us so often that they are woven into… everything that we’re doing and any reactions we have to things that even have nothing to do with our kids… suddenly… it doesn’t matter! Like, y’know? It doesn’t matter! ‘Cause they’re—‘cause they’re there. And… I think this ties back so much to… if you’re not getting the self-care… right? If you’re not—if you have no space. Right? To—to—deal with whatever has nothing to do with parenting. It’s definitely gonna be up and down. And I think that’s where it does get hard to find the little joy moments of the—like… at the end of yesterday, which had been the day where we had, y’know, come back from the park and he’d been huge and everybody was—everyone was wrecked. From that. By the time it was time for me to read to Ellis, tucked in, y’know, we had this really nice time reading, and I think… I—I love this! And then I go to this, like, weird place of—maybe this is just what it should be all the time. [Laughs.]
theresa
Yeah.
biz
Like—maybe… I should just abandon all things. And he should abandon all things. And we should just… like, this seems like a safe, reasonable, space. And we should stay here all the time. And… like, fighting against that—like, ebbing and flowing at the same time—is, y’know, seven, eight straight days with a child of some kind at home having to cancel hair appointments. Canceling classes. Cancelling—y’know, just time for me to run out and do grocery shopping! Like, I was stuck at home for a week! And… when there’s a child there it’s really hard to, like, do anything! And so like… I had a week where all I was doing was being with the child and that was awful! Like, I—I mean, like, not awful, but y’know?
crosstalk
Biz: Like, I j—it wasn’t— Theresa: Well she was also sick.
theresa
It’s not like you, like, set aside time for quality time.
biz
But it wasn’t fulfilling and I didn’t feel… because there’s always that voice inside that says—man. You could just walk away. Like, what—y’know? Like, what if you hadn’t made these choices? And… y’know, I did make those choices.
theresa
You mean, like, having kids?
biz
Yeah!
theresa
Yeah.
biz
Yeah!
theresa
Yeah.
biz
Absolutely! Like— [Laughs.] Like, it’s… it would be different!
theresa
Yeah. It would.
biz
In like, multiple ways. And… while it is not healthy to get stuck in that, I think it plays into—again—the—that’s why I go back to that first question that I asked of—is it that I’m having waves of liking and not liking parenting? Or am I having more like times where I just—that’s it. I don’t wanna be a parent at all. Like, I don’t want kids in my house! I don’t want, like, any of it. Right? Like, is it more that— [Laughs.] Is it more of that? Because—
theresa
I don’t think I understand the difference.
biz
So… I can appreciate, like—let’s say… Ellis is having one of his “more” moments. Obviously—
crosstalk
Biz: —not my favorite time being a parent. However— Theresa: That’s obviously—right! Yeah. So that’s a—
biz
I’m in it, and I’m there. And because I know we’re all gonna be there. And… then I’m gonna go make dinner and then I’m gonna keep doing all the stuff after that. Or… no one’s there. [Laughs.] Or I have these moments where I think—what if life was 100% different? What if we didn’t have kids? What would I be doing right now? It’d be a hell of a lot quieter in this house! [Theresa laughs.] Right? Like—would I have been pursuing—it’s the what-if! Would I be—
theresa
Interesting.
biz
Y’know, like—do I have—it’s not—regret’s not right and like… wishing’s not right. Like, I don’t think those are the right words? It’s just these moments where I’m like—I kinda glimpse the other path? Not that there’s any way to know what that other path would be? But it’s just a path in which no one’s in my house except Stefan!
theresa
Yeah.
biz
[Through laughter] So I—so—
theresa
Okay. I see this as like, a small bubble and a big bubble.
crosstalk
Biz: Yeah. Ohhh! Bubbles are good. I like bubbles. [Laughs.] Theresa: Like, the small bubble— [Through laughter] Okay. Like the— [breaks off, laughing.]
theresa
The small bubble is like all the moments of parenting. Like—
crosstalk
Theresa: —some parenting—yeah! Biz: Okay. That’s the small bubble?! Oh. [Laughs.]
theresa
So—so listen. The small bubble is, like, the moments of parenting that are ups and downs! Like, there’s lots of ups and downs in parenting. Like, there’s—like you describe. The “more” moments with Ellis. Or the—
biz
Sick being home. Yeah.
theresa
Sick being home, but then also like, the good stuff! Like, somebody has a—an achievement. Or like, you have special time with one of your kids that’s like really rewarding. Whatever. Ups and downs of parenting. Then the big bubble is just life, and you’re going to have times in your life— [though laughter] especially if you’re overly self-aware, like you and I both are— [Biz laughs.] —but I think everybody does! Where you’re questioning your life. You’re questioning, like, life choices. You’re questioning where am I now. What’s good right now. What’s hard right now. How do I wish my life was different and what of that is, like, in my control? Those are, like, big life questions. And that’s why I’m saying, like, the parenting stuff—sometimes seems like it’s what we’re thinking about? Because our lives are so full of parenting right now. But like, I think those questions that you’re having? Like, what if I’d made different life choices? Those would just be there no matter what. They would just be different.
biz
My bubble has been popped, Theresa. [Theresa laughs.] That’s—no, I think you’re 100% right! And I—I think—that, clearly, not how I was looking at it. Y’know? But I—but—but I mean, I think—I think that’s… one of the good things about talking about stuff like this, is just—[sighs.] Being—and not sitting on it, like we all do—is being able to—yeah! Sure. I’d still—I—none of that’s gonna stop me from thinking about—is this my beautiful house? [Laughs.] How did I get here? Right? Like—
theresa
Why can’t I go back and— [Laughs.]
biz
Why can’t I go back and do this? Y’know, like—I still—seven years after starting this show—wrestle with—do I like being a mother? You know? Or whatever word you want to use to fill that in. And… am I a good one? Am I—y’know, is this something that’s natural to me? Is it—right? Like— [Laughs.] And while I can see all the—the answers to that, both good and bad, but I—I’m no longer gonna try and find an end to that question. Right? And I like how you’ve now described it twice in two different ways—bubbles and another way that, uh, I liked, that—the parenting role is just such a small part of the larger experience we’re having, but it’s the brightest at the moment because it’s just… we’re—we’re in it.
theresa
It kind of—like, the way—the reason I thought of that is because [though laughter] I was thinking about—on the weekend, when I was feeling irritated at my partner— [Biz laughs.] —that, like, this thing came back to me. I can’t remember if it was somebody on the show who said this to me, or something I read somewhere that was like—well, it’s easy to like blame your partner… for whatever’s going on, because they’re just the other person that’s there!
biz
[Through laughter] Yeah! [Laughs.]
theresa
Like, there’s—like, it’s very natural that when you’re pissed off because stuff isn’t going the way you want it to go, you can’t really blame your kids ‘cause it—they’re kids and it’s not their fault! So you’re just gonna—if you can’t blame yourself, you can’t blame your kids, you’re just [though laughter] gonna blame your partner ‘cause they’re the other person! [Biz laughs.] So like—and that—I find that helpful! Because a lot of times when I realize that, I’m like—well, yeah! Like—this is not—it’s misplaced. I’m just having these—these feelings. I’m having this frustration. It just is. Like, do I need to pin it on a person? [Biz laughs.]
crosstalk
Theresa: No, probably not. Biz: Always! [Laughs.]
theresa
But like, same—same with parenting sometimes. You know? Like, do I need to… like, is it—is it useful and is it accurate—those are two separate things—to say, like, I feel this way overall about my life because of parenting. Like, I don’t know. I don’t think so. Because a lot of stuff goes into who we are. Like…
biz
That’s interesting. That—accurate! Because the question really is, there’s the feeling experience and then there’s the accuracy and like… I know lately, I’ve been trying—and now that I combine parenting with my life experience—why do I keep trying to keep everything separate? And I do! I do—I do see them all separate. And I—I—
crosstalk
Theresa: That’s interesting, too. Biz: I think it’s important to work—
biz
—hard at realizing it—it all overlaps? It’s all one thing? Because I—I guess parenting—again, it’s isolating. It’s there. You’re the only one witnessing it until someone else witnesses it and then that has a bunch of feels. So—y’know, for me, it does feel like “other.” And… I have been working just on my own to really try and identify good—like, all the good things, both that I’m doing as a person, doing as a parent, y’know, recognizing the opportunities. Recognizing the—the real beauty and magic of my children. Right? And my relationship with Stefan. To try and keep, like—it’s like— [Laughs.] If I insist on only seeing beauty in the world? Then I will see less and less ugly in the world? Right? So if I can try and focus—or just remind myself, or say out loud the really good things that I’m doing? Then maybe it will help me not focus on the bad things or it’ll make the “more” moments less “more” or—y’know? Like… I don’t know.
theresa
Yeah! I mean, like, we want this to work! [Biz sighs.] Like, we want this to be good! Like, we want—we want these choices that we made— [Biz laughs.] —to be as rewarding as we hoped that they would be. And we—we wanted—we wanna feel good about the work that we’re doing! ‘Cause we—‘cause we’re working so hard! So we wanna feel… good about it! Like, I think that’s valid!
biz
Yeah. And if not, we can just go out for milk! [Laughs.]
music
“Ones and Zeroes” by “Awesome.” Steady, driving electric guitar with drum and woodwinds. [Music fades out.]
biz
Music: Laid-back acoustic guitar plays in the background. One Bad Mother is brought to you in part by Magic Spoon. Remember breakfast cereal? Breakfast cereal is one of the special parts of being a kid! But as an adult? You realize that all your favorites were full of sugar and junk.
theresa
Magic Spoon is a new company that has recreated your favorite childhood cereals with more protein, less carbs, zero sugar, and nothing artificial. Magic Spoon comes in four flavors—cocoa, fruity, frosted, and blueberry. It’s also gluten-free, grain-free, soy-free, GMO-free, and keto-friendly.
biz
Go to MagicSpoon.com/badmother to get a variety pack and try it today! Use the code BADMOTHER at checkout for free shipping. That’s MagicSpoon.com/badmother. [Music continues for a short length of time before fading out.]
theresa
Hey, you know what it’s time for! This week’s genius and fails! This is the part of the show where we share our genius moment of the week, as well as our failures, and feel better about ourselves by hearing yours. You can share some of your own by calling 206-350-9485. That’s 206-350-9485.
biz
Genius fail time, Theresa. Genius me!
clip
[Dramatic, swelling music in background.] Biz: Wow! Oh my God! Oh my God! I saw what you did! Oh my God! I’m paying attention! Wow! You, mom, are a genius. Oh my God, that’s fucking genius! [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective genius moments of the week.]
theresa
Okay. I mentioned a few shows back that I was severely delayed in getting some very important safety work done on my car? [Biz laughs.] Which I used [though laughter] every single day to transport my precious family and myself.
biz
Uh-huh.
theresa
So I… in the midst of—what’s really been a very hectic time? For me? I managed to take my car in and get the three safety recalls— [Laughs.]
biz
Oof.
theresa
Done. [Laughs.] And as well as get a new battery in my key fob, which was the only reason I finally went to the stupid thing. [Biz laughs.] Because I was like, well, if this stops working I won’t be able to drive my car. So—
biz
Right. [Laughs.]
theresa
Um, and so that just felt—it took a whole day. It was a huge pain. But I did it and it’s done and now I don’t have to think about that for a while, I guess.
crosstalk
Theresa: I hope. Biz: Good job!
theresa
Yeah.
biz
Removing something that you have to think about!
theresa
Yes.
biz
That’s really the genius—
theresa
I mean, I would think about it every time I drove, too! Because of—
biz
I get it!
theresa
Yeah!
biz
I mean, it’s like really less about the car and it’s more about the fact that you have now—this new space to fill with something else! [Laughs.]
theresa
[Through laughter] Yes. Exactly.
biz
I’m sure—reading. [Both laugh.]
biz
Okay. So what Ellis and I have been reading at night—as I mentioned was a nice moment for us—is for his birthday, his great-uncle sent him this new book about constellations! And it’s not only a beautiful book, but it takes you through ancient constellations, zodiac constellations, and modern constellations. And because I had gotten the kids these, like… cheapo, tiny, fit-in-the-palm-of-your-hand constellation projectors as a stocking stuffer? But they—they’re great, actually. They’ve been—they’re so good!
theresa
Cool!
biz
It’s gotten him interested. So we have been—that’s been our nighttime reading! And it’s really nice, ‘cause he’s so into it? And he can… this is one of the opposite of the “more,” or it’s part of the “more,” but how “more” plays out in a different way with Ellis. He can remember all the names of the constellate—it’s like how he is with Star Wars. [Laughs.] He remembers all the names. He remembers, like—he gets to be—we are really know about Northern and Southern Hemisphere and Equatorial Line and like all this stuff. He giggles at me grotesquely mispronouncing the Latin words— [Laughs.] Even though I took Latin. And—like, he even—last night, it was like such a cool thing, like we had gotten all the way to animal constellations—like, three or four days after we had talked about zodiac ones. And we get to this one—it’s the serpent. It’s being held by this man, but now we’re on the serpent part, and he remembers—he’s like, this is the one that’s held by the zodiac guy! And of course, it’s the one constellation of the zodiac that we don’t reference as a zodiac representative of your birthday or whatever! It’s just in the circle so it’s been grouped with them? And he like remembered it and I was just like—Jesus!
crosstalk
Biz: Your brain! [Laughs.] Theresa: That’s so cool!
biz
It just was like—like, I do… like, it was such a nice moment and I like that we’ve just been reading this—I don’t know if it’s a genius moment or anything?
crosstalk
Theresa: It’s a genius moment! Biz: It’s just that like—
biz
Ohh. You’re a good, smart kid! I love you!
theresa
It’s great.
biz
Yeah.
theresa
Good job.
biz
Thank you.
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Hi, One Bad Mother! This is a genius. Um, I have a little girl who is about to turn seven this week and for her birthday, she asked for a whole bunch of gift cards. The girl loves to shop. Um, and I remembered that for the last several years a lot of our well-meaning relatives have been giving us gift cards to a whole bunch of different stores that I always forget to use. And they just live in my wallet. So for her birthday, I got her a pretty card and I’m gonna fill it with these gift cards. She will be super excited and I know they’ll probably just go back into my wallet anyway? [Biz laughs.] And I’ll probably forget to use them? But at least for a little while, uh, she’s gonna feel rich and I’m gonna feel like a genius. So, um, thanks for letting me share ‘cause nobody else is gonna care. [Biz laughs.] Uh, I really appreciate the show. You guys have gotten me through a lot over the last couple of years, and um, I thank you for being such good friends even though we’ve never met. [Biz laughs.] And you’re doing a great job. Have a great day. Thanks.
crosstalk
Biz: Woo-hoo! Theresa: Yayyy!
biz
This is so genius—and I think about all the teachers out there who receive countless gift cards [though laughter] and like, I mean, it’s so—
theresa
And it’s like, $10 here and $20 there. Yeah.
biz
And it’s actually—if you’ve got a kid who wants gift card—I mean, Katy Belle wants—
crosstalk
Biz: —a Starbucks gift card. Theresa: And they can get so much!
biz
It’s not like—yeah! And they can get so much! And you’re not like—because it’s a gift card that you’ve already, like, sort of forgotten was money on some level? You know what I mean? You can give it to them—like, Katy Belle had a gift card for this, like, art store? And it was something that she got for Christmas and it was super nice. And after she got all the, like, art supplies she wanted, she was like—I’m—just what I call the “garbage area”? That’s just junk! And I’m like—I don’t care! It’s a gift card! [Laughs.] I don’t know why, but I’m like—so yeah! A $10 gift card here is a paradise awaiting!
theresa
So genius.
biz
Ugh, so good! Failures.
clip
[Dramatic orchestral music plays in the background.] Theresa: [In a voice akin to the Wicked Witch of the West] Fail. Fail. Fail. FAIL! [Timpani with foot pedal engaged for humorous effect.] Biz: [Calmly] You suck!
biz
Fail me, Theresa. [Biz and Theresa repeatedly affirm each other as they discuss their respective failures of the week.]
theresa
Okay. This is also about my daughter’s footwear—weird theme to the show today. But I mentioned last week that Gracie is taking, um, a softball clinic and so she has cleats for that. And I don’t know about cleats, really? [Biz laughs.] And I’d never played softball. I— [Laughs.] I’ve played basketball as a kid. And Jesse was on tour so it was my job to take everyone to the thing and so I had to find her cleats and have her get ready and I don’t— [Biz laughs.] That’s not usually my job! So I didn’t realize that the cleats have, like, the caked mud and dirt on the bottom? From the playing the week before. And so it didn’t occur—and she didn’t think about it. So I guess Jesse has her put those on when they get to the field?
biz
Oh, yeah.
theresa
But I had her put them on in my house. Just in my house. And then she proceeded to run around and jump on her mini-trampoline—
biz
[With alarm] Ohhh!
theresa
And I was, like, rushing everyone out the door— [Biz laughs.] —‘cause it’s really hard to get everyone ready to go. And as we’re ready to go and we’re leaving, I’m like—what is all this stuff? Like, caked around all over the floor? And I had to use my deduction skills to figure out where it was coming from, and I was just like… wow. I could’ve not done—like, I could’ve prevented this from happening. And then we had to come home to that later and I had to spend all this time cleaning it up.
biz
You’re a horrible person for not knowing about cleats. [Both laugh.] Isn’t that a question the stork asks before— [Theresa laughs.] —he brings you children? [Laughs.] Love it. Look, mine just goes back to the playdate thing. Where like—I—again—it’s just that I’m really in the middle of it? Because we’re doing a lot of playdates because he wants to do the playdates and other kids wanna have playdates with Ellis? And I—it’s just… when it happens, it feels like a fail! Again—I mean, it just feels like somehow I’m responsible for this or I haven’t done something or I’m—y’know. Have allowed this to—whatever.
theresa
And that’s the fail!
biz
That’s the fail! Because I know—
theresa
Because you’re taking it on personally.
biz
I’m taking it on personally. Yes. I don’t wanna take it on personally! I wanna put my cleats around and stomp around the house! [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.]
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Hi, this is Jenn, calling with a fail. So it’s a Monday and I get a call from my children’s daycare asking if I had packed them peanut butter for lunch. And my automatic response is, no! Of course not! We know the rules! That’s sunflower butter. And the school director’s like, oh, okay, we just wanted to triple check ‘cause it seems like peanut butter. And I’m like, no, nope. Nope. Definitely, definitely sunflower butter. So I hang up and I’m a little annoyed. And then I realize—oh! Maybe my husband did this. He was probably overwhelmed last night and grabbed the wrong jar of peanut butter. I’m gonna give him a call and let him know he did this! [Biz laughs.] About three rings in, I get this flashback. I packed the sandwiches and I definitely used peanut butter. [Biz laughs.] So not only did I send my two children to a peanut-free school with peanut butter, but then I lied about it and tried to blame my husband. [Biz laughs.] So it was a triple fail for me. Lunchtime is over now and there’s nothing I can do about this. I guess they’re gonna have to demolish the building. [Sighs.] Plus I just know when I go to pick them up everyone is going to look at me like I’m a monster because it was very obviously peanut butter. I’m a failure, but you guys are doing a great job. Thanks for the show.
biz
Well… yeah!
theresa
Yeah.
biz
This is a fail. [Theresa laughs.] This isn’t one of those, like, cute ones where we can be like—oh, how dare you love your child! Like— [Laughs.] This is—I—I could—we could do a whole show on the fear of packing the wrong thing for lunch. Right? Like—allergies are real.
theresa
Yeah!
biz
And—I—I—appreciate you calling this in?
theresa
Yeah!
biz
Because—you ain’t the first! And it’s definitely, like—you— [Laughs.] It’s the fact that you’re like, now I know I lied about it. Now I know I definitely did it. Like, and now I’m trying to blame my husband and I feel like shit about it! Right? Like…
theresa
But—and—like—you definitely like screwed up so bad? And that’s why it’s a fail? But it’s also… this can happen! And that’s why this is so scary! ‘Cause it’s like—it’s so—and— [Biz laughs.] We—we forget stuff all the time! Even when we’re trying really, really hard. And… I mean, we’re doing— [Laughs.] We’re doing the best we can! That’s the whole point of the fail segment! Like, I can tell how much you wanted to do the right thing? And you answered according to what you believed! [Biz laughs.]
biz
At the moment!
theresa
Yeah!
biz
Yeah!
theresa
Because you do try not to send peanut butter to school!
biz
And two points for caring and trying! I mean, we certainly were at a school once where, y’know, there were signs up everywhere that are like, “Peanut-Free Zone!” And like, half the kids had peanut butter—Katy Belle would come home and be like, so-and-so’s got a peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwich. I’m like, really?! Really! Right? Like— [Laughs.] Like, they just bring bags of nuts and eat ‘em! [Theresa laughs.] And I’m like—really?! Y’know? Because—y’know—I—a parent may be so busy and just not pick up on that—y’know what I mean? Like… I—look. You are doing—overall—a good job.
theresa
Yes.
biz
But you’re also— [Theresa laughs.] —A liar, liar, pants on fire. [Laughs.]
music
“Mom Song” by Adira Amram. Mellow piano music with lyrics. You are the greatest mom I’ve ever known I love you, I love you When I have a problem, I call you on the phone I love you, I love you [Music fades out.]
theresa
Music: Jazzy piano music plays in background. One Bad Mother is supported in part by Care.com, the world’s largest online destination for finding and managing family care. Care.com helps millions of families find high-quality care for their children, aging loved ones, home, and pets!
biz
Care.com offers a platform for all kinds of family care services! From child and senior care to pet and housecare. Care.com is the largest network of local caregivers and is dedicated to making it easy to find, manage, and pay for care. Reviews and background checks help guide families through the hiring process. And if you’ve got a premium membership like Theresa and I do, you will learn how much that makes the process even easier.
promo
[Computer beeping.] Music: Light, inspirational music plays. Jean-Luc Picard: Nearly two decades ago, Commander Data sacrificed his life for me… [The clip continues in the background, inaudible under the dialogue.] Ben Harrison: The Greatest Discovery is also about Star Trek: Picard. Adam Prancia: Jesse Thorn won’t less us stay on the network unless we do all the Star Trek series. [Ben chuckles.] Adam: And so, here we are, doing a show about maybe our favorite Star Trek character of all time. Ben: If you’re excited to watch the new Star Trek: Picard series and you’d like some veteran Star Trek podcasters to watch it along with, we’re your guys! Sorry you’re stuck with us. Speaker 1: The hell are you doing out here, Picard? Saving the galaxy? [The clip continues in the background.] Adam: So, subscribe to The Greatest Discovery. You can find it anywhere you find podcasts. Ben: Or at MaximumFun.org. Speaker 2: [Screaming, distant.] Jean-Luc Picaaard! [The beep of a communicator.]
promo
Music: Fun, jaunty, upbeat music. Renee Colvert: Hi! I'm Renee Colvert. Alexis Preston: I'm Alexis Preston! Renee: And we're the hosts of the smash hit podcast Can I Pet Your Dog? Now, Alexis. Alexis: Yes. Renee: We got big news. Alexis: Uh-oh! Renee: Since last we did a promo, our dogs have become famous. Alexis: World-famous! Renee: World—like, stars on the Hollywood Walk of Fame! Second big news. Alexis: Mm-hm? Renee: The reviews are in. Alexis: Mm-hm? Renee: Take yourself to Apple Podcasts, you know what you're gonna hear? We're happy! Alexis: It's true! Renee: We're a delight! A great distraction from the world! Alexis: I like that part a lot. Renee: So if that's what you guys are looking for... Alexis: Mm-hm. Renee: You gotta check out our show! But what else can they expect? Alexis: We've got dog tech, dog news, celebrities with their dogs. All dog things! Renee: All the dog things. So if that interests you, well, get yourself on over to Maximum Fun every Tuesday! [Music ends.]
biz
[Singsong voice] Theresaaa! [Regular voice] How have I not done “Cecila”-Theresa to you? “You’re breaking my heart!”
theresa
Nobody’s done that!
biz
“You’re—” How is that possible?! No one?!
theresa
Yeah, I’ve gotten “Jesse’s Girl” many times.
biz
Oh. God. I’ve since—since the—you guys first met? I can’t—
crosstalk
Theresa: I didn’t even know the song when it was first sung to me. Biz: Oh my god. Did you play it at your wedding?
theresa
No! [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.]
biz
Yeah. It’s not like it’s a great song about your relationship!
theresa
And it defines me by being—
crosstalk
Theresa: —his. Biz: Associated—
biz
Yeah! “His.” [Laughs.] Okay. No guest. [Both laugh.] But that means we’ve got special extra time for a mom having a breakdown.
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Hi, Biz and Theresa. [Tearful voice.] This is a rant. I am sitting in the Target parking lot with a bunch of groceries and supplies that I just got and we were supposed to get 12” of snow this weekend. I found out today that my family dog is gonna be put down that we’ve had since I was in high school. I also found out today that I failed an exam that would’ve gotten me a pretty big raise at work. I can retake it, but not for a few months and I’m gonna have to restudy for it over again. And it requires hundreds of hours of studying so I don’t know how I’m going to fit that in. Um… I also found out my daughter needs to go see an orthodontist? Which I was hoping was a couple years away still? So… this day is just really kicking me and I was doing okay, actually, until I heard you say I’m doing a good job. Um… it’s just… doesn’t really feel like it right now. But I appreciate everything you guys do, and um… thank you for keeping the hotline open! Bye.
biz
We should have, like, a red phone at Target.
theresa
Yeah!
biz
That like— [Laughs.] We should partner with Target. And be like—there needs to be a—hotlines all over, and then people can just call and it links directly to the hotline. First of all—you’re doing a great job. And way to nail it, having the breakdown in the parking lot of a Target. This is the correct place to just let it all out.
theresa
Mm-hm.
biz
I mean, like, this is a prime example of everything we just talked about on this show. You have so much happening all—you got a lot of news today. That was not great news. Any one of those? Is enough to make all of it feel overwhelming? And to have these multiple things come at you today? How are we supposed to, like, not have a breakdown with this? And there’s snow coming. You’re all gonna—I mean, we all know what that means. Everybody’s gonna be home.
theresa
Yup.
biz
I’m so sorry!
crosstalk
Theresa: I am, too. Yeah. Biz: Those are really hard things!
biz
I am really—I am so sorry about your family dog. I am so sorry about the test. That is so fucking frustrating!
theresa
It really is.
biz
Ugh! That is so— frustrating!
theresa
Yeah.
biz
And upsetting. And, like—oh, the ortho—oh, yeah. I mean, I just—every time I look at Katy Belle, I realize we probably shoulda done something already! [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] I really don’t wanna think about those costs! Right? Like—it—that’s a—it’s big! These are big things. And you are really doing a good job.
theresa
You really, really are.
biz
You really are!
theresa
And, you already did your shopping!
biz
Yeah! Yeah!
theresa
Your shopping’s done.
biz
You could’ve had all this day and then still had to go out. So… yeah! You’re—you’ve got this.
theresa
Yeah. You’ll do it.
biz
You’re gonna do this.
theresa
Yeah.
biz
It’s gonna be a “this.”
theresa
Yeah.
biz
And you’re doing a great job at it.
theresa
Good job.
biz
Good job. Theresa? What did we learn today? We… learned that parenting is part of our life. [Theresa laughs.] [Laughs.] Uh, no matter how separate some of us have tried to keep it. [Both laugh.] And life—
theresa
Mm-hm.
biz
Has a lot of ups and downs. We could’ve easy called this a rollercoaster as well. But I liked waves. ‘Cause waves sound nice. Though they can also be destructive and…
theresa
Polluted.
biz
Polluted. And… not at all peaceful. Bringing in the dead from the sea! [Theresa laughs.] As it were.
theresa
[Through laughter] Oh my god.
biz
So again—I need to work harder. [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] At helping my parenting experiences blend with my life experiences. So that I can enjoy riding the wave more than running away from it at top speed every time it inches closer to me. Good lesson! [Theresa laughs.] Or it’s not a lesson at all. I don’t know. Did you learn anything? [Laughs.]
theresa
The one thing that is different for me? Is that… I know—whenever I think, like, oh god. If I didn’t have kids right now? Like, whenever I have that thought? At the same time, I have the knowledge that there was no “me” who didn’t choose to have kids. Like—I—
biz
Right.
theresa
I definitely did not expect it to be this hard! [Biz laughs.] Definitely did not understand what I was signing on for. That—those are both true. But… there was no—I was never, like… quest—it was just—I was—I was all-in for that. So… I think that when that is true? I am trying to integrate my hopes and dreams with what’s hard? But I think… I think that when—when we maybe aren’t 100% on our choices? That may be even harder? Because there is a desire to prove that the choice we made was the right one. Which is kind of unfair.
biz
Yeah. That is unfair.
theresa
To ourselves.
biz
Because we can’t prove it.
theresa
Because we never will.
biz
No. Well, it’s like—
crosstalk
Theresa: There’s no way to— Biz: —trying to put an end—
biz
—to my question of… do I like being a mom? Right? Like, there is no—
crosstalk
Theresa: There is no answer. Yeah. Biz: That’s a—that’s a—
biz
Not a good question.
theresa
Yeah.
biz
As opposed to a better question being—how do I integrate all these things and have a life that is livable?
theresa
And fulfilling.
biz
And fulfilling! Welp, I guess I’ll just have to go to Target and see if I can pick that up. [Both laugh.] Everybody? You’re doing a remarkable job. Parenting is not easy? No matter how children came into your house, it is… y’know, still sometimes being sold to us as a warped image of perfection and ease and the notion that if you’re not enjoying it, it’s you. [Laughs.] And it’s not life and children and things you didn’t expect coming at you! So, y’know. Let’s keep reminding ourselves that these are reasonable questions to ask and that we’re not supposed to have the answer right away and that we are doing a good job each day with what we have and what we know and tomorrow we might have something different, and we might know something different. Uh, and that might affect that day. Every day—learning! Rolling. [Theresa laughs.] Moving forward! And you’re doing it, and you’re doing a really good job at it! Theresa? You are doing a good job and I am glad you are my friend because you always have good words.
crosstalk
Theresa: Aw, thanks, Biz! Biz: That make me feel like, [shrill laughter].
biz
Do you mean I can unscrew the jar this way?! [Laughs.]
theresa
Yeah. I—my trick is I’m just saying other words. I’m saying the same thing you are, using different words.
biz
Well, it makes a difference. [Laughs.]
theresa
[Through laughter] Thanks, Biz. You’re also doing a really good job.
biz
Thank you. And we will talk to you guys next week!
crosstalk
Biz and Theresa: Byeeee!
music
“Mama Blues” by Cornbread Ted and the Butterbeans. Strumming acoustic guitar with harmonica and lyrics. I got the lowdown momma blues Got the the lowdown momma blues Gots the lowdown momma blues The lowdown momma blues Gots the lowdown momma blues Got the lowdown momma blues You know that’s right [Music fades somewhat, plays in background of dialogue.]
biz
We’d like to thank MaxFun; our producer, Hannah Smith; our husbands, Stefan Lawrence and Jesse Thorn; our perfect children, who provide us with inspiration to say all these horrible things; and of course, you, our listeners.To find out more about the songs you heard on today’s podcast and more about the show, please go to MaximumFun.org/onebadmother. For information about live shows, our book and press, please check out OneBadMotherPodcast.com.
theresa
One Bad Mother is a member of the Maximum Fun family of podcasts. To support the show go to MaximumFun.org/donate. [Music continues for a while before fading out.]
speaker 2
Comedy and culture.
speaker 3
Artist owned—
speaker 4
—Audience supported.
About the show
One Bad Mother is a comedy podcast hosted by Biz Ellis about motherhood and how unnatural it sometimes is. We aren’t all magical vessels!
Join us every week as we deal with the thrills and embarrassments of motherhood and strive for less judging and more laughing.
Call in your geniuses and fails: 206-350-9485. For booking and guest ideas, please email onebadmother@maximumfun.org. To keep up with One Bad Mother on social media, follow @onebadmothers on Twitter and Instagram.
Get in touch with the show
onebadmother@maximumfun.org
@OneBadMothers
@onebadmothers
How to listen
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