Transcript
biz ellis
This is Biz. I’m a part-time working mom with two full-blown kids.
theresa thorn
And I’m Theresa. I have a family business, two young kids, and a toddler.
biz
This is a show about life after giving life. Don’t listen with your kids, ‘cause there will be swears. This… is One Bad Mother.
music
“Summoning the Rawk” by Kevin MacLeod. Driving electric guitar and heavy drums. Music continues through dialogue.
biz
This week on One Bad Mother: Let’s go out to eat! Plus, Biz gives a knowing look and Theresa probably knows what she needs to do.
crosstalk
Biz and Theresa: Wooooo!
biz
[Singing] La, la, la, la, la, laaa. [Regular voice] Theresa?
theresa
Yes.
biz
How are you? [Biz affirms Theresa throughout.]
theresa
Oh, wow. I’m okay. So… [Biz giggles.] I realized I’ve been having this feeling recently that, like, somehow bedtime has gotten harder? There was, like, a time where it wasn’t. Like, there was a time where, like, people kind of knew what they needed to be doing and like—bedtime’s annoying, but like, people kind of knew what they needed to do and you would just, like, start getting ready for bed and everybody would go to bed. [Biz laughs.] And… like, I’m talking about, like, leading up to getting into bed. You know? And Curtis is still in a crib and, you know, Oscar’s—
biz
Forever.
theresa
—tired—yeah, forever. Oscar’s tired ‘cause he goes to kindergarten and they don’t take a nap, and Grace is not—whatever. It’s all fine.
biz
Grace goes down to her hole. [Laughs.]
theresa
[Through laughter] She goes down to her—
crosstalk
Biz: Her cave. [Laughs wildly.] Theresa: —her under—her— Biz and Theresa: —her under the stairs. [Both laugh.]
biz
Yes! Ohhh, I love that so much. Okay.
theresa
Yes. So—I definitely did the thing of, like, not noticing when it was good. Like, which I should’ve—
crosstalk
Biz: Does it help that I was noticing that it was good? Theresa: —done.
biz
‘Cause you hadn’t talked about it in a while?
theresa
Maybe!
crosstalk
Biz: Because, like, when they were very little, I mean—it—there was— Theresa: Yeah. Bedtime was horrible— [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]
biz
Bedtime was a nightmare. And I never wanted to say anything because I didn’t want to jinx it? And you were smart not to say anything, else you jinxed it. [Biz affirms Theresa throughout.]
theresa
Okay. But I think I— [Biz laughs.] —also… to be fair, also stopped talking about it because I also got used to how annoying bedtime is. [Biz makes knowing sound.] In a sense. Like, it got better? But also, I got used to the—the—like—there was definitely a night where, like, my cousin was visiting and, like, when I came out of the kid’s room after everybody had gone to bed, she looked at me and was like—and she has no kids—she looked at me and she was like, “Is that, like, every night?” [Biz laughs wildly.] Like, she looked at me like really in disbelief. Like, she couldn’t believe how the past 90 minutes of my life had been— [Biz laughs even more raucously.] —like, just absorbed into the void. Which was very validating. Um—
biz
Yeah. It’s validating. Sure. [Biz affirms Theresa throughout as she recounts her experience.]
theresa
Yeah! But—okay. So the—we’re getting off track here.
biz
Sorry.
theresa
Bedtime was okay for a while. Recently I’ve noticed it’s been a little more like herding cats. Like, people don’t—they’re not doing what they know they need to do. It’s been like this for a while. Like, probably two weeks. Maybe three. And… I kind of think I know what I can trace it to? And it’s that— [Biz laughs.] —I’ve been letting them watch TV while they eat dinner?
biz
[Knowingly] Ohhh!
theresa
And I—
biz
Hey—
theresa
—this is definitely—no, no, no. I—I know you’re not gonna judge me. That’s why I’m sharing.
biz
That’s right. I’m giving her the, like, hands back.
theresa
So—and the reason I was doing that is because— [Biz laughs.] —it happened one time and I noticed that my kids eat—
biz
Theresa: —their dinner. Biz: Ate the food. Yeah.
theresa
If they’re watching something. And I was like, oh, I mean, Curtis he’ll—he’s—whatever? But Oscar and Grace, if there’s no—if there’s nothing on, they don’t eat dinner. They just get up and do stuff. And sometimes sit down and take a bite. But then they’re up and they’re down and they’re up and they’re down. And they’re doing stuff! They’re not really eating. The TV thing is on…they’re just sitting there, eating all their food.
crosstalk
Biz: They’re not distracted. Yeah. Theresa: I am watching—
theresa
And it’s crazy how well it works. Like— [Biz laughs.] —to the point where I was like, I kind of feel like this is a reasonable thing for me to be doing, even though I don’t actually really like it. But I was like, but this is like kind of cool! That this works?
biz
So much of parenting is not what you want. [Laughs wildly.]
theresa
No! But I do—so I do think it’s affecting bedtime now. [Biz makes sympathetic noise.] And I think what it’s doing is that basically it makes dinner kind of last longer? And then there’s a harder transition out of that? That’s like—and then people are just… not—they’re kind of, like, overstimulated from whatever they were watching, and they’re not, like, focused on what needs to happen next. They kind of just want to play or talk or do stuff. Move around. That’s their move-around time. So then I’m thinking back to—if the TV was not on, yeah they might not be eating dinner, but then they’d be ready to like, get in the bath! Brush their teeth! Like—so [reluctantly and tentatively] I kind of know what I need to do? [Biz makes reluctant sound.] And I don’t want to do it. ‘Cause it’s—it’s been kind of nice! But then it’s also—it’s like prolonging—it’s just like, putting off the craziness. You know? Like I can either have dinnertime craziness or bedtime craziness. I think I’d rather have dinnertime craziness!
biz
Okay! Well—
theresa
Right? [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]
biz
—here’s the good news. You can swap it back out again! So— [Theresa laughs.] —have the dinnertime craziness for a little while, and then if you’re like, no. I really would prefer bedtime craziness. [Theresa laughs wildly.] I’m gonna bring the television back. Right? Or—you know, you could mix it up? Mondays and Wednesday are dinner craziness. [Theresa laughs again.] Either way, I—
theresa
My kids would do great with that.
crosstalk
Biz: Yeah, I bet. Yeah, your kids—[breaks off, laughing.] Theresa: [Through laughter] Just not knowing what to expect on any given day.
biz
Pull it out of a hat! [Laughs.]
theresa
“What is—what’s gonna happen?!” [Bursts into laughter.] [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]
biz
You get to pull it out of a hat! Is it dinner crazy or—or, you know, bedtime crazy? Yeah. Yeah. That probably would be great for—for your kids. And just kids in general.
crosstalk
Theresa: Yeah, just kids in general. They love to just be surprised! Biz: Kids love fluctuating routines.
biz
[Yelling] Wooo! Surprise! [Theresa laughs.] Surprise! [Biz affirms Theresa throughout.]
theresa
And they love to have—especially when they’re gonna get screen time? They love to have that mixed up. Like—maybe they’ll get screen time? Or maybe they won’t! They—that’s a fun game. For them to play.
biz
Do you know why it’s fun? Because they love not knowing when that might repeat itself. They—
crosstalk
Biz and Theresa: They love it.
biz
They’re really good at, like, knowing that every day can be different.
crosstalk
Theresa: Right. Yeah. Biz: Yeah. Yeah.
theresa
That’s a skill they have. All of them.
biz
Regardle—[breaks off, laughing wildly.] [Theresa laughs.] Regardless of all of that, this story just makes me love you?
theresa
Okay.
biz
Even more? I just like you—
crosstalk
Biz: And I think you’re doing a really good job. Theresa: Aw, thanks! Thanks, Biz.
biz
And I do not judge, and—yeah. I—
theresa
I appreciate that.
biz
Yeah! I just—
theresa
I appreciate that I can come here and talk about—
biz
Just that!
theresa
Eating dinner in front of the TV and whether that’s good.
biz
Good or not, who cares? [Theresa laughs at length.] I like—I like that the—[breaks off, laughing.] Okay.
crosstalk
Biz: Not gonna get us sidetracked on this being a whole topic. Theresa: [Laughs.] Okay. Alright. How—yes.
theresa
How are you? [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]
biz
I am alright. I’m… still tired. I sometimes wonder—will the tired ever stop? And like you, there’s that whole thing of like—[breaks off, laughing.] Where you—you were just talking about this. I had said “Oh, I thought the sleep had gotten better” and you’re like, “Well, I think I just stopped talking about it because it became normal.” And sleep is definitely one of those things where you’re like—no, my slee—like, my tired level hasn’t gotten better, there’re just some stretches where I don’t notice it as—as much or just accept it. Anyway, not what I wanted to talk about. What I wanted to say was that the other night, Stefan looks up—I don’t even know where this came from? Maybe he had recently spent some time with other people who have kids. I dunno. But he comes home and he says, like, basically, something to the effect of—you know, it must be… one of the things that must be really nice about you and Theresa getting to see each other every week—and I’m just sitting on the couch reading a book and I’m like, why—
crosstalk
Theresa: You’re like, “Tell me what’s nice about my life.” Biz: Yeah, tell me what’s nice about that! Theresa: Tell me what’s really great about my life. [Laughs quietly as Biz continues speaking.] Biz: Why—when I finally allow myself to read a book— [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]
biz
—out in a room where other people are—why does everyone talk to me? [Yelling] Book! Anyway. He says—[breaks off, laughing.] Something basically like, it must be nice that y’know, you don’t have to pretend that everything is perfect when you talk to each other. And I just kind of, like, looked at him and I said, “We don’t even talk.” [Theresa laughs.] “What’s nice about seeing Theresa every week? Is that we’re at a place now where we can just look into each other’s eyes.” [Theresa bursts out laughing.] “And we know everything.”
theresa
So true. [Theresa and Biz repeatedly affirm each other throughout.]
biz
And it really is! She’ll, like, come into the—like, booth or like into the office and I’ll have already been there and she’ll come in—and we just like, look—
theresa
We just look at each other.
biz
We really just look.
theresa
Yeah.
biz
It would make for a very uninteresting podcast if we just sat here looking? Right? But like—
crosstalk
Theresa: And sometimes there’s a “Mm-hm.” Yep. Or like a “Mm.” Yeah? Mm-hm. Yeah! Or just laughing at each other! Laughing. Yes. Biz: Mm-hm. Yeah. Or just laughing. Just laughing! Just laughing at each other! Yeah.
biz
And, you know, like “skip the bullshit talk.”
theresa
‘Cause we know.
biz
Just give each other the look. And that be it! And it’s really nice. What’s also nice… is going out to eat like people. [Laughs.] So today, we’re gonna talk about going out to eat.
music
Banjo strums; cheerful banjo music continues through dialogue.
theresa
Please—take a moment to remember: If you’re friends of the hosts of One Bad Mother, you should assume that when we talk about other moms, we’re talking about you.
biz
If you are married to the host of One Bad Mother, we definitely are talking about you.
theresa
Nothing we say constitutes professional parenting advice.
biz
Biz and Theresa’s children are brilliant, lovely, and exceedingly extraordinary.
theresa
Nothing said on this podcast about them implies otherwise. [Banjo music fades out.]
biz
Theresa! Let’s go out to eat.
theresa
Yayyyy! [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]
biz
Yayyyy! Our children are older. We have more experience now. As… parents. Lots of experience. Going out to eat has become a slightly different experience. And I think it was recently we had a caller who called in about a fail about being out at a restaurant with her kids and she said something to the effect of: she has issues with the cups that they give kids that have lids? [Theresa laughs.] And, like, all that? And that made Theresa and I laugh a lot, and then I was like, you know what? I think we haven’t really explored restaurants with this new winds. As older, wiser parents. And I thought it would be fun to do that!
theresa
Let’s do it!
biz
So—let’s go out to eat. What makes for a good or bad restaurant? Is somewhere in this? And I feel like… first I wanna say, like, there’s lot of like, “Kids eat free.” Right? [Theresa laughs.] Have you ever gone to, like, a “kids eat free?” Right?
crosstalk
Theresa: No! I have actually never done that! Honestly! Biz: Right. I—[laughs.] I’m always like—yeah! [Biz and Theresa affirm each other throughout.]
theresa
Like, I’ve never done that!
biz
I’m like, why aren’t we going to more “kids eat free?” [Laughs.]
theresa
We used to do that when I was a kid. Like, um, Carrows? There was, like, Carrows where we lived for a period of time, and I remember it was like my dad’s thing that he would take my sister and me there. Like, once a week or something. And… yeah. “Kids eat free!” [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]
biz
“Kids eat free!” And… those are still around—usually on vacations I spot them more? “Kids eat free.” But then I’m like… well, why aren’t we going to IHOP where kids can eat free sometimes, right? [Laughs.] Like, why aren’t we going to—you know. A lot of it’s probably just that we don’t go out to eat very much? Because of our schedules? But—I also was taken out a lot as a kid, when kids eat free, and I remember that I was, like, “Oh, when I have kids, this is gonna be a bargain.” [Laughs wildly.] [Theresa laughs.] I’m not sure it is? But like… that always made you feel like you were walking into a restaurant that was ready to have kids.
theresa
Ready for kids, yeah.
biz
And I don’t think that’s always true.
theresa
Correct!
biz
Yeah!
theresa
That is correct! [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]
biz
Yeah! This, I think, goes into kids’ menus? And I think I could talk at great length about kids’ menus? And I don’t mean the format of a kids’ menu. I mean the contents of a kids’ menu. There are usually some standards that are on every kids’ menu regardless of the restaurant. [Laughs.] The, like, level of stars of a restaurant. Right? There’s always pasta. ‘Kay? For the most part. I feel like I always see—
theresa
Like, mac and cheese.
biz
Mac and cheese or plain pasta. I see plain pasta a lot.
theresa
Maybe I just don’t notice plain pasta—
crosstalk
Theresa: —because my kids don’t eat it? So I don’t, like— Biz: Do you just go right to mac and cheese? Yeah! True! [Biz and Theresa continue to affirm each other as the conversation winds back and forth.]
biz
I notice the plain pasta right away. The mac and cheese… some sort of sandwich.
theresa
Grilled cheese.
biz
Like a grilled cheese, or a PB&J, or like… turkey. Right? And then—some sort of chicken, usually in tender shape. ‘Kay?
crosstalk
Biz: These are— Theresa: Sometimes a hot dog.
biz
Sometimes a hot dog. Right. Depending on the location and what else is being served. None of these—I have yet to go to a restaurant in which someone has honestly served me what that said it was going to be. Grilled cheese sandwich? Always on fancy bread that’s too thick. And there’s so much cheese it’s oozing out. And…
crosstalk
Biz: And it’s not just yellow cheese! Theresa: They—they often—
crosstalk
Theresa: Right. They often use a variety of cheeses. Yeah. Biz: A variety of cheeses!
biz
These are all things that apparently are a nightmare to my child. Right? Like—
crosstalk
Biz: Too much cheese. Theresa: They just want American or cheddar. Yeah.
biz
The bread is too big. Y’know. It’s just like… whatever it is, it’s not what my kid expected. Same with other sandwich types: peanut butter and jelly—whatever—again, it’s on some sort of delicious big, like—
crosstalk
Biz: —brioche. Thick, really—yes! Sourdough. Theresa: The fancy bread. Really causes problems. Yeah.
biz
I’m like—doesn’t anybody have a thing of white bread back there? [Laughs.]
theresa
Yeah, I’m like—I—when that happens I’m always like, [disappointed tone] oh. It feels like you’re kind of trying to, like, impress me?
biz
Yeah! Or my child? [Laughs.]
theresa
But—just so you know, I just want—it’s fine if you just have a bag of grocery store bread in there.
crosstalk
Biz: In fact I’d like that. Yeah, I—dollars! Right! Theresa: And you just—like, that would be great. Like, I’ll pay $7.
theresa
I don’t care. [Biz laughs.] [Theresa continues affirming Biz throughout.]
biz
‘Cause the in-laws are in town and we’ve gotta go out to dinner at a restaurant to make it easier. [Laughs wildly.] [Theresa laughs.] But I—I, too, have often said to, like, to waiters—I—I wanna be really clear. I want this as plain as possible. For example, the pasta! Plain pasta. My kids’ll eat plain pasta. This should be the easiest thing in the world. It always comes out with parmesan cheese on it. I’m like, why the f—that’s not even listed! Why is there parmesan—
crosstalk
Biz: —cheese? Again, it goes back to the—right! Yeah! Theresa: Because it’s like—I know—because—you can see what they’re thinking! Like— [Biz affirms Theresa throughout.]
theresa
They’re, like, thinking “I can’t just serve a table this, like, plain pasta,” and you’re like—no! That’s what’s on the men—like, that’s what you’re promising! Because that’s what a kid wants. [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]
biz
Yeah! Don’t bring the stink! I love parmesan, but parmesan can smell like a shoe. To a child. Right? And then, like, an old gross shoe. Like something very stinky. And they won’t eat it. Pasta with red sauce always tends to also be way too much red sauce. Like, it’s like a soup. Yeah. And then… mac and cheese, my kids don’t eat mac and cheese. So I wouldn’t know. [Biz affirms Theresa throughout.]
theresa
My kids love mac and cheese but they won’t—they’ve never eaten it at a restaurant. [Biz laughs wildly.] Because they just want the one from the box! They don’t want, like, real macaroni and cheese! Like, even when Jesse makes, like, homemade macaroni and cheese? They won’t eat that, either. So—okay. Hold on. One thing—this totally reminds me of when we were up north for the weekend for the gender spectrum conference a few months ago. It was, like, early in the morning and we needed to get some food before we went to the conference. And Jesse found, like, a diner that had really good reviews, but it was like, a diner-diner. Just, diner. And we’re like, this is great. Y’know? And they have a kids’ menu and all this stuff and one of the things on the kids’ menu is hot chocolates, and Grace spots that right away. And we’re like, sure. We’re on a trip. You can have—you can all have hot chocolate this morning. So—and of course, Curtis also wants the hot chocolate! Y’know? And he’s two. So I’m like, sure. It’s on a kids’ menu, like, great.
biz
I’m sure it’s fine. [Biz affirms and mirrors Theresa throughout.]
theresa
Right! So we get, like, a round of hot chocolates for the table— [Biz laughs.] —y’know, and they come out…and…it was as though they had—this restaurant had never met a kid. And this— [Biz laughs wildly.] —this restaurant—I mean, really had been there forever. It’s a diner with a kids’ menu, that were very welcoming to us, that had a high chair for him and everything. They served my two-year-old—um, also, my old two—slightly-older kids, but still too young for this, hot mugs. Like, steaming hot, heavy diner mugs? The big, heavy diner mugs of scalding, you know, like, they’d use the scalding—
crosstalk
Biz: Where it’s gonna be an hour before you can drink it. Theresa: —water?
theresa
And covered in whip cream— [Biz makes disgusted noise.] —so that the kids couldn’t even tell how hot it was underneath? They all burned themselves. And I’m looking at my two—and they—waiter serves this to my two-year-old! And I’m like—I literally dove across the table. And grabbed it from him. Because I was just, like… the—[makes a series of vocalizations to indicate she’s lost for words]—d—blw—there’s nu—like, I don’t even think Grace can do this, and she’s eight. Like, I could not—it was so crazy to me. Like, and—[lost for words again]—like, I don’t know what that is! Like, I—like—I don’t know—what—again, who are they trying to—‘cause sure, the beautiful mug and the hot cocoa and it’s covered in whipped cream? That looks delightful for an adult. [Laughs.] [Theresa affirms and mirrors Biz throughout.]
biz
Yeah! Well it’s even, like, when the food comes out hot. I’m like, can you make the pasta and just let it sit not under the heat lamp. Just let it sit. To the point where you think no one wants to eat this.
theresa
So—
biz
And then bring that out. But I want to say with the hot stuff, the other thing I would like to add my complaining—
crosstalk
Biz: —about hot stuff—while we’re on— Theresa: Yes. While we’re on complaining— [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]
biz
Did I say we’re going out to eat? It’s that when they serve drinks that are so hot. You’ve just added extra time to your time—there. Because… they’re gonna wanna drink it.
crosstalk
Theresa: Yeah! And it’s gonna take, like, 20 minutes for them to be able to drink it. Yeah. Biz: it’s gonna take 20 minutes—yes! [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]
biz
Before they can even drink it. And then… that—and then there’s drinking time. And like—
theresa
And they’re crying!
crosstalk
Theresa: ‘Cause they’re so upset at how long they have to wait. Biz: And they’re upset—and they’re—like— [Theresa continues affirming Biz throughout.]
biz
And they’re so distracted by that that they’re not fucking eating! Right? You’re like, “Bring out a television for my children to watch!” [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs at length.] “Quick!”
theresa
I mean… are we being super fussy? Like, I—I unders—
biz
Are we being children? [Biz affirms and mirrors Theresa throughout.]
theresa
Well, it kind of feels like we are? But it’s—it is… I don’t know. It’s—like, it’s just—tough. It’s tough because it’s like—I guess on the other hand, like, people would say, like, well, kids have to learn that, like, when they go out in the world, like, not everything is prepared for them the way that it is at home. And like, that’s true.
biz
I believe that.
theresa
Yeah! But like, at the same time…I also just feel kids live in the world? You know what I mean? Like, it feels…
crosstalk
Biz: It’s not like—[breaks off, laughing.] Theresa: It feels like some of this is fairly reas—
theresa
Like, I know we’re making a big deal out of it, but it feels like some of this is pretty reasonable stuff if you’re trying to, like, accommodate peoples’ needs. [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]
biz
We’re not going to Le Cirque. Right? Like—it’s—we’re going to an IHOP. Right? Or we’re going to a restaurant that says “We serve children.” And—right? Like, if you’ve got a kids’ menu, you’re expecting people to bring their kids in. And… I also—like, I totally also get the whole, like, who are you—we trying to impress. Y’know. For me, I’m like…what frustrates me, obviously, uh, y’know, we don’t go out to eat a lot! Because I know my kids aren’t going to eat half the stuff. Right? And it—or, if we go, I make sure we’ve got, like, fruit. Right? Or like, some crackers. And things like that. And sometimes I put together a meal, right? Like, I know that part of it—what I need to pack in my bag to take to the restaurant, is lower expectations? Like, sometimes I’m like, I need to accept that I’m about to be judged because fries will be dinner tonight. I should just get my kid fries, because they’ll eat them. And… that’s better— [Theresa and Biz alternately affirm each other as the conversation passes back and forth.]
theresa
That’s okay once in a while.
biz
Right! It—and it’s okay!
theresa
‘Cause you’re getting through the experience.
biz
Yeah! And it’s cheaper than the peanut butter and jelly sandwich that is too fancy—
crosstalk
Theresa: Yeah, that they won’t eat. Yeah! Yeah. Biz: —in my kid’s mind, that they’re not gonna eat.
biz
And I don’t, like, I hate the wasting of the food, I hate the cost of, like, not being—like, knowing I’m about to go spend money on stuff my kids aren’t gonna eat. And, like, that’s—and, sitting over—here’s what’s funny. Katy Belle brought up an interesting thing. She… is a pretty good eater out at restaurants, and she was like, out, maybe two… maybe a year ago. So she was like, nine. And she’s out with Stefan’s parents and they go to a Chinese restaurant ‘cause Katy Belle loves Chinese food, and they go. She orders the soup. The wonton soup. And the guy brings out the smallest— [Theresa begins laughing.] —tiniest, like, soup. And she’s like… what? And like—they have to, like, say very clearly: she needs the large. Like, the adult large. She’s gonna eat all of it. And the guy just, like, couldn’t—like, this is where the opposite worked? Like, where they tried to like—
crosstalk
Theresa: They have this idea what a kid will eat. Yeah, or they won’t want to eat it. Yeah. Biz: They had an assumption that your kid’s not—what a kid will eat. And for her— [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]
biz
She was so, like, insulted that she wasn’t getting served like an adult when she was ordering off the adult menu. And that was the thing—she had ordered off the adult menu, not the kids’ menu— [Theresa makes knowing sound.] —y’know. And that was… that was hard. And…y’know, I think there’s—I agree with the whole, like, there’s something about going out that teaches your kid a lesson that it can’t always be like it is at home. Right? And sorry—
theresa
And that that’s good sometimes! [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]
biz
Right! And sorry, restaurants, that we’re going to be doing this life lesson at your restaurant. Right? [Biz bursts into laughter.] [Biz affirms Theresa throughout.]
theresa
Well—I think—but I think you raise a good point, which is… I think for—like, we have a—a few different friends whose kids really are genuinely adventurous eaters and they’re the same age as my kids and they just—they’re more comfortable trying different things. They’re more, like, up for—actually just eating what’s on their plate, even if it’s not their favorite. Like, they’re just, like, that’s kinda the—they’re just better at that. For whatever reason. Like—and I could see if that was my kid, going to a restaurant and being really frustrated that there even was a kids’ menu? That suggested that my kid won’t eat regular restaurant food? That they will only eat a PBJ or a hot dog? Like, I’d be like, “Um, you’re just teaching my child—” Like, ‘cause there totally are kids who will—
crosstalk
Theresa: —eat the regular food! Yeah! It’s like Katy Belle. Yeah. Biz: Eat—well, it’s like Katy Belle! She wants the—she doesn’t want— [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]
biz
—literally the adult—like, she orders off the adult menu, but then out comes food that there’s no way in hell she’s finishing because it’s gigantic. Right? And there’s no—and you can’t say “Can I have a half order? Can I have… can I order the plain pasta for the kids but then you put everything on it that she wants—” Right? Like…no wonder kids get to eat free, because—[breaks off, laughing.] Like, there’s—you’re gonna get gouged somewhere else along the way. But I think this is true with, like, the drinks! The drinks are… I’m—I am fine. I like going to a restaurant where they know to bring my children their drink in a kids’ cup. ‘Kay? Drinking is hard. But I also have been to places which—like the hot chocolate—they bring giant, like, glass or plastic glasses—
crosstalk
Theresa: Glasses are huge! Biz: —of water—
biz
—and put it right in front of the child! And I’m like…I ju—
crosstalk
Theresa: Yeah. You’re—that’s when you’re lunging across the table. Yeah. Yeah. Biz: That’s going down right—I’m lunging across. It’s like—what? What the hell?! [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]
biz
Look at—it’s bigger than this kid’s face. Like, they can’t—I’m not complaining about that, I’m complaining about the fact that, like… I’m not even complaining, I’m just mystified by like… how disrespectful it almost is to what the kid can and can’t—like you said, kids are in the world, why can’t we figure out how to serve kids in the world? [Biz affirms Theresa throughout.]
theresa
Well, in a way, I think this is just a problem of like…kids being tiny versions of adults and by that I mean… they are all their own people and they all have different needs and restaurants don’t know what the fuck they need! Like, I—whenever we get the—that giant thing—I’m fine with the water, but the giant thing of juice? The like—eight ounces of juice sometimes? Or sometimes more? Sometimes, like—the—
crosstalk
Theresa: —just a huge amount of juice they serve my kid. Biz: Could you just give me your smallest juice. [Biz continues affirming Theresa throughout.]
theresa
I’m like, I look at it and I think, like, what would happen if my kid drank that whole thing? [Laughs.] Like—it—it’s almost like—‘cause I’m like—my kids could all three of them share that today and tomorrow. Like, it’s like—
crosstalk
Biz: It’s a lot of juice. [Laughs.] Theresa: —so much more juice [through laughter] than they’re used to drinking. [Biz and Theresa frequently affirm each other as the thread of conversation passes back and forth.]
biz
Or like, the lemonade? I’m like, you don’t—
theresa
But I’m like someone—but I’m like—they mu—but—part of me is like, someone’s kid might be drinking that much juice. But that’s just so—like, it’s just so hard. There’s just so many…
biz
There’s so—yeah, no! There’s so many differences. Right? But kids get no respect.
theresa
Kids get no respect. Yeah.
biz
And so, like—it’s just a shitshow wherever you go. The kids’ activities that sometimes restaurants provide? For kids? Like, the—it’s the menu. The menu’s on it. And then there’s some games. And… the games I learned—I was like, [singing voice] “Oooh, we’re getting the kids’ menu with the games!” Holy shit. The only way my kids will enjoy this is if they’re old enough to read. [Laughs.]
theresa
Yep.
crosstalk
Biz: Right? Like—there’s one maze— Theresa: Or if I walk them through the entire thing. Like, this is our—activity. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Biz: Oh, yeah! I’m about to spend my entire time tic-tac-toe… word-searching… [Theresa affirms and echoes Biz throughout.]
biz
Draw the meatball person that you want to make. [Theresa laughs.] Right? Like… whatever—‘cause when they try and theme it up to their restaurant? I’m like, [goofy voice] “Draw the meatball! Name it!” Right? And I’m like, what the fuck? Just actually what would be great is just, like, paper? Just give your—paper? Or like, great restaurants that—great restaurants— [Theresa laughs.] —that serve to kids—have like, full pieces of like paper down on the like, as part of the…uh, tablecloth?
theresa
Theresa: Or the—yeah, the tablecloth is paper. Yeah. And they give you—yeah. Biz: And they give ya—they give ya a big thing of just nasty crayons and the kids can just go to town. Theresa: Yes. Love that. I love that. [Theresa affirms and praises Biz throughout.]
biz
That is great. In fact, I used that, uh, multiple times for like Thanksgiving and like big holidays where we have to have, like—kids are just kind of sitting, you know? Like, I put that down? But like… a lot of times I’m like, is this worth…is this fun? Is this fun? Is anybody having fun with this? I wanna finish by saying… I was a waiter and a bartender and a hostess for over 11 years. In multiple restaurants. And I wanna say, uh, from the waiter standpoint, what made going out to eat for families that I saw [stifling laughter] having some success was when parents realized they had brought kids with them—
theresa
That’s always helpful. Yup. [Theresa continues affirming Biz throughout.]
biz
Kay’? Like, they knew this was a experience with their kids. And not a date. [Laughs.] Also, I hated when people ordered spaghetti—I’m not gonna complain from the waiter’s side—fucking hated spaghetti! Because—
crosstalk
Biz: —that’s impossible to clean up off the floor. Theresa: ‘Cause it’s messy! Yeah. Yeah. [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]
biz
A table? Fine. But kid’s gonna throw. Right? [Singsong voice] Kiiiid’s gonna throwwww. [Regular voice.] So like—cheerios, I loved it when people brought cheerios in! Sometimes I would ju—[laughs]—I would just say, “Do you just want some bread?” Right? Like, as a waiter, I also felt it was my job to identify and be, like…look, I can also bring you x, y, and z. You don’t have to—we got a fruit plate—
crosstalk
Theresa: It’s hospitality, right? Yeah! Biz: Yeah, it’s hospitality! [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]
biz
It’s like—accepting that the kid’s not gonna eat it. Right? And like… that sort of stuff I felt like… you know, I knew kids were gonna have refills. Usually the adults were worse than the kids? Lots of times, to be perfectly honest? You know, and like—I think… if we’re gonna go out in the world with our kids, if you are the one taking your kids out in the world, I feel like you need to be aware that that is a choice you’re making? And just like you would any friend that you invited out—you need to be, like, connected! You need to be aware. Right? Like, of what’s happening. And if you are out in the world without kids—but are in a hospitality industry of some kind where you are letting families [through laughter] come into your place—you also have to be aware that all kids aren’t the same. Right? And the kids are different and… just like people are different. So we have enjoyed really ripping— [Theresa laughs.] —the eating-out experience a new asshole, and sounding like assholes ourselves. So the question is—why would we go out? Right? Like, pre—pre-kids I’d be like, “Then don’t fucking come out!” Right? So why do you go out to eat? [Biz affirms Theresa throughout.]
theresa
Being in a restaurant that you like takes you out of your house. It’s such a treat for taking you out of your house and out of your, like, typical, like, routine of things getting sour sometimes? We don’t eat that—out that much with our kids either, and I just wanna say… how nice it is when you do find that place where it does work. Mostly. Like, I—we have this place that’s down the street from our house. I’m just gonna name it ‘cause it’s called “La Abeja”— [Biz makes sympathetic noises] —and it’s gonna be gone soon because— [Biz makes more sympathetic noises] —it’s been there since the 60s and… the guy and his wife who run it, it was his dad’s place and he’s ready to retire now? And he’s gonna sell the building. And it’s gonna be—it’s—it’s like, over. And we—our family has been eating there since Jesse and I first moved to this part of the neighborhood, which was, like, when I was pregnant with Gracie. So like, it’s been—it’s been, like, our—our home place. For like a long time. And we’re already very sad that they’re leaving! And so we’re trying to eat there as often as possible. And like, I just wanna say, like, it’s—it’s not—not perfect! Because eating out with kids is never perfect? But what’s so awesome about it is, like, having—and it’s not, like—it’s not particularly kid-friendly, it’s just a place where you could go with kids and they know that kids exist in the world and they’re nice to our kids? Like, they treat our kids like people? [Biz continues affirming Theresa throughout.]
theresa
And… it’s allowed our family to have, like, a place that we go that is something we do that’s like kind of special, but not so special that it’s not, like, a regular thing. And so it’s like a tradition, it’s a routine, but it’s kind of fun, and it’s—it’s kind of normal ‘cause we’ve been there enough times that our kids are like used to it now. And… so I think—just because we’ve done, like, a lot of complaining today? And I think our complaints are warranted and, like, fair given what we’re, like, struggling with? But I think—I just wanna add that, like, when it goes right—that’s what we want! Like, that’s what we’re going for! Like, and it’s such a gift when it, like, does go right. [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]
biz
Yes. I also—I agree. There is… there are those places and those moments where you walk in and you’re like… like, right off the bat, you know it’s gonna be okay? Whether or not they cater—like, there was this—we were visiting Alabama and we went to this barbecue place, like, y’know, total hole-in-the-wall, out in the middle of nowhere. Uh, Ellis is very young, Katy Belle—young. Y’know. I’m not on meds yet. [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] Y’know? Like—and we’re home visiting, and we go out there, and… I remember walking in… and like, no one gave us side-eye with kids. Everybody just knew kids existed. And they were familiar with kids. And there was no, like, “kids’ menu,” you know what I mean? Like, but everybody was like, well, what—
crosstalk
Biz: —would you—can I split this? Yeah! Theresa: What would you like to eat? Yeah. Yeah. [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]
biz
And just like—in general, no one looked over when your kid started, like, making a mess or yelled or whatever. It just was… kids go out—they’re just—kids!
crosstalk
Theresa: Yeah. Kids are in families. Biz: You know? Like— [Theresa affirms and echoes Biz throughout.]
biz
Yeah, kids are in families. Families go out. And you’re right! There’s something… really nice about being able to go out every once in a while that takes you out of the routine, that makes everybody feel a little—like, when a restaurant can nail the, like, we actually want you here? And we actually are happy that you’re part of this and you feel part of that? That’s not always found at, like, four-star, five-star restaurants. This is usually the local place around the corner. And—and yeah! I think that’s why I keep trying to go. And I think that’s why, for all the complaining, all the stuff that’s set up, quote, “for kids,” is stuff I will continue to struggle through— [Theresa laughs.] —or just roll my eyes at, because I’m looking for the good—the sweet spot. I’m looking for the sweet spot. Right?
theresa
Yep.
biz
Here’s to the sweet spot! So until then, I guess we’re gonna rely on this newfangled “food delivery service.” [Laughs.] [Theresa bursts out laughing.] Hey, food driver! We want to go out tonight! Can you just drive us around in your car while we eat? [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.]
music
“Ones and Zeroes” by “Awesome.” Steady, driving electric guitar with drum and woodwinds. Music plays for a moment, then fades out.
biz
[Chill acoustic guitar plays in background.] One Bad Mother is supported in part by iDTech. If your child has an “okay” tech learning experience, it might feel like more homework. But, if they have the best experience, it could light a fire in them for the rest of their life! That’s the gift iDTech can give them. Whether they’re interested in coding, video game development, robots, or video production, iDTech can help your child build the STEM skills employers are desperate for. iDTech has programs at 150 prestigious campus destinations worldwide, from CalTech and NYU to Cambridge and the University of Hong Kong. There are courses for all skill levels, so nurture their interest now with the help from iDTech! Visit iDTech.com/badmother today to reserve your child’s spot and receive $75 off. This is a great gift for the holidays! That’s iDTech.com/badmother for $75 off. iDTech.com/badmother.
theresa
Hey, you know what it’s time for! This week’s genius and fails! This is the part of the show where we share our genius moment of the week, as well as our failures, and feel better about ourselves by hearing yours. You can share some of your own by calling 206-350-9485. That’s 206-350-9485.
biz
Theresa. Genius fail time. Genius me!
clip
[Dramatic, swelling music in background.] Biz: Wow! Oh my God! Oh my God! I saw what you did! Oh my God! I’m paying attention! Wow! You, mom, are a genius. Oh my God, that’s fucking genius!
theresa
[Laughs.] [Biz laughs.] [Through laughter] I’m gonna try to find a way for this to not be complicated. So— [Biz laughs.] —so, Gracie is sleeping downstairs under the stairs, so that one thing that meant is she was no longer in the room that has, like, the kid clock? The kid bedroom clock? And… so, I was going to get her, like, just like a regular digital clock. But then I remembered that any time you get a digital clock, it’s always an alarm clock, and any time you have an alarm clock, Gracie’s gonna set the alarm for 3:00 in the morning.
biz
[Gasps.] Oh my God. [Laughs.] I—
theresa
Because that’s fun to her.
crosstalk
Biz: ‘Cause that’s—yeah, it’s fun to her! No! Theresa: [Through laughter] And—and ‘cause she can’t help it. She can’t help it! Biz: Yeah, she can’t help it! Theresa: She’s gonna set it for 3:00 AM! Biz: She’s gotta set that clock! [Laughs wildly.]
theresa
And even if she goes, like, two weeks without doing it, after that—it’s—at some point, she’s gonna set it for 3:00 AM. [Laughs.]
biz
She’s gonna come back to it. [Laughs raucously.]
theresa
[Through laughter] She’s definitely gonna be doing that from time to time, as long as that is anywhere near her.
biz
Children. [Laughs.] [Biz affirms Theresa throughout.]
theresa
Yes. And so—I sat there for the longest time thinking, should I buy the, like, slightly-more-expensive, like—essentially, toddler clock, kid clock, that is not really an—you could set an alarm but it’s, like, complicated to make it into an alarm? And it lights up when it’s morning and it, like, does all this stuff. I’m like, she’s eight years old. She doesn’t need this fancy, like, beautiful, like, fun clock that lights up, blah, blah, blah. But if I get her the alarm clock, just—I’m gonna—even if it doesn’t happen, it will! [Biz laughs wildly.] But even if it doesn’t, I’m going to be expecting it to and worrying about it forever? So I just decided to get it for her, and—like all my fears that she was like, why did you buy me like, a todd—like, why did you buy me like a little kid—that never happened. She just thought it was a really cute clock, and she really likes that it changes the color when it’s time to get up in the morning? And I’m like, the more I think about it, the more I’m like—this is actually the right age, for her? To start using this clock? [Biz laughs wildly.] And like, it’s—what’s amazing is that she is really using it for, like, the original purpose that I bought one of these clocks for back when she was, like, two and there was no way she was gonna pay attention to the clock? [Biz continues affirming Theresa throughout.]
theresa
But now she’s like—yeah, I—she regularly hears me get up in the morning and comes upstairs and says, like, yeah, I didn’t—I didn’t—I’ve been up reading but I didn’t get up ‘cause I didn’t want to bother you. Like I—I saw on the clock what time it was and it wasn’t time yet. [Biz makes celebratory noise.] And so she’s really doing that, like, consistently now? And… just getting up—like—if—if the family is not up, she just doesn’t get up. And she uses the clock—I—I’m just—I—I’m—this is amazing to me— [Biz laughs.] —and I just love it so much. And I’m really happy.
crosstalk
Theresa: With my purchase. [Laughs.] Biz: Good—good purchasing genius.
theresa
Thank you. [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]
biz
Good job. Katy Belle is moving into reports. Learning how to write reports, research reports. I think the school’s doing a very good job of teaching her, all that kind of stuff, but as we discovered a while back when they were doing their first version of it—of a report—I didn’t know where the hell to research. Right? Like, I’m not super pro-Wikipedia as a resource. I don’t want that to be the go-to.
theresa
The teachers probably don’t, either. [Theresa continues affirming Biz throughout.]
biz
Either. Right. Like, the library, like we went and like I was showing her how to find stuff at the library, but online—because sometimes y’know, that’s where she’s gonna get the research—I was like… wow. Where—like—I ju—so surprised at how hard it was to actually find some information that wasn’t, like, part of a travel website! Or something weird! Well. I went on to my library website, ‘cause I was trying to find her current research report that she’s doing. The person she—has selected is Wilma Mankiller. Who is the, like, Cherokee activist, this, like, female Cherokee activist. She’s still alive. It’s super—I’m like, yeah, alright, let’s—okay! [Theresa laughs.] Cool! [Laughs.] Let’s go see if we can find any information! And—the—and I’m sure all libraries have this? But as I like to surprise myself with how great the library is—I go onto the library website and of course there are resources—elementary school-geared research resources. Whole websites. That are free through the library. That you just use your library card number to log into and it’s just resources! And there’s one for, like, periodicals too! And I was like… I love you, library!
theresa
That’s so great. [Theresa continues affirming Biz throughout.]
biz
I love you, library! I don’t have to figure out where to send her! She can go log in and it’s all there! I love her. Also, I found two books and we were able to put them on hold for her.
theresa
Good. Job.
biz
I love you, library, so much! [Laughs.]
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Hi, Biz and Theresa! I have a Halloween genius. Both of my kids have palate expanders right now, which means they can’t have anything gummy or chewy or sticky, which happens to describe about 50% of the candy they’re about to get when they go Trick-or-Treating. [Biz laughs.] So, my genius is that I bought a bag of candy that they can have, and when they get back, instead of having a meltdown, they can trade the candy that they can’t have with the candy that they can have. Thus avoiding a meltdown. And, bonus genius, is that I will then have a bag of candy that no one else can eat! [Biz and Theresa both laugh appreciatively.] You’re all doing a really good job. And today, so am I. Bye!
crosstalk
Biz: Yes. Theresa: Yeah. So good. [Biz and Theresa affirm each other as the thread of conversation passes back and forth.]
biz
For anybody whose children aren’t old enough yet for various orthodontic—[laughs]—suggestions—
theresa
Oh, God.
biz
—recommendations, and/or must-dos, like, a palate expander—y’know, it’s like—you can either—it’s up on the roof of your mouth, it’s behind your teeth, and it’s just pushing your teeth out to make space? And it’s… yeah! I mean, it’s just another thing that limits you from eating anything enjoyable?
theresa
I had one of those. Actually, I feel like I had that a bunch of different times.
biz
Yeah, yeah. Good job!
theresa
Such a good job.
biz
You’re a fucking Halloween genius!
theresa
Trading treats is…
crosstalk
Biz: I—but you got— Theresa: you can use that lots of different times.
biz
Lots of different times. Just make sure that it’s a holiday in which what they’re getting is stuff you really want. Right? Like that’s—yeah. You’re doing a great job. Failures!
clip
[Dramatic orchestral music plays in the background.] Theresa: [In a voice akin to the Wicked Witch of the West] Fail. Fail. Fail. FAIL! [Timpani with foot pedal engaged for humorous effect.] Biz: [Calmly] You suck!
biz
Fail me, Theresa.
theresa
So… a couple days ago, I was… making a snack for Oscar and Curtis and myself. And we wanted to have cheese and crackers.
biz
Cheese and crackers. [Biz affirms Theresa throughout.]
theresa
So I got out the cheese, and then I realized I couldn’t find any crackers and I was like, that’s weird, we have like no crackers right now? What—what’s that about? Can’t find any crackers? [Biz laughs.] So I looked, like, everywhere. Really looked. Really looked. Down where we keep, like, the canned goods. And I found a box of saltines—we’re not, like, super into saltines, but we keep them around? Y’know? And I was like, okay, cool. And so I pull out a sleeve of saltines. From this open box of saltines. The—the sleeve is not open, just the box is open. So we’re digging into it, and we take some bites and we’re all horrified. By the taste of these saltines. I mean, they’re really, truly disgusting. I don’t even know how to describe it. It was like… worse than cardboard. Like, the texture was normal, but the taste was really bad. And… I’m like, oh, God. Maybe these are old! Maybe they—and I didn’t even know that saltines could get old! But maybe they’re old. [Laughs.] And I went and I checked the box—[through laughter] and they had expired in August of 2016.
biz
[Scary tone] Ooooh!
theresa
So that’s probably why they tasted so bad!
biz
That’s old. That’s a vintage year, from what I understand!
theresa
I believe so.
biz
That’s gross.
theresa
Really gross.
biz
You’re doing a horrible job.
theresa
I know.
biz
[Conspiratorial tone] How many did you eat? [Both Biz and Theresa burst into laughter.] Ugh. Okay. I finally—I know that you do not have a good, uh, history with birthday party RSVP-ing.
theresa
True!
biz
Or even showing up.
theresa
True.
biz
I—coming with that fail—I did not even acknowledge and/or RSVP— [Theresa starts laughing.] —to Oscar’s birthday party! I remember it came in and I was like, oh look! And then I just—like, it was—and I’m like, “Theresa deserves an RSVP.” And like—she is my good friend! [Theresa laughs.] And I know her history with this. And then… I never thought about it again. And then… Oscar’s birthday. Happened. And I wasn’t—yeah! I just was like, “Wow!” That’s… bad.
theresa
I’m gonna say I didn’t follow up with you about it ‘cause I hadn’t heard from you and it was getting pretty close to the party, but I didn’t follow up because I didn’t wanna put pressure on you because I know also sometimes kid parties are not your favorite activity?
biz
Fucking hate kids’ parties.
theresa
So I was like, she might not want to go? Or—
biz
Theresa: —they probably have— Biz: Yeah, but—
theresa
But—let me finish. [Biz laughs.] I actually came full—and then I’m like, that’s weird that I haven’t heard from her. And then I thought—actually came full-circle to—either I didn’t actually send it to you— [Biz laughs.] —I must’ve not sent it to you—or you just didn’t see it. I just decided that—I decided one of those two things in my mind.
crosstalk
Biz: My— Theresa: And I never—[breaks off, laughing.] Followed up. Biz: Somewhere in-between there is what happened. Yeah, but I— Theresa: So thank you. I appreciate that.
biz
Yeah. Feel like a jerk.
theresa
It’s alright. You’re not a jerk. You’re my friend.
biz
Thank you.
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Hello, this is definitely a fail. For a split-second I thought I was a genius, and that’s often how fails start. Um, I am one month from having my third baby, and so I went out with the baby and the toddler—who’s two—uh, to IKEA. I thought this was a good idea. And I went to get food and then I realized I couldn’t carry the tray and push the umbrella stroller, so I—I hooked the umbrella stroller to my, uh, baby carrier? That I was wearing? And for a moment, I pulled the umbrella stroller! And I even said to people around me who were just watching me—they could’ve offered to help, but they didn’t— [Biz laughs.] —um, and I said, “Hey, look at me! I’ve leveled up!” And then— [Biz laughs harder.] —the whole umbrella stroller, um, flipped over. [Theresa gasps.] Um, with my toddler in it. He was fine. He dropped his iPad. I didn’t drop the food. Um, which is good. But, y’know. All these people were watching me flip my stroller over. Like some sort of horrible mom. [Biz laughs quietly.] So, yeah! Uh, I failed. Um… shouldn’t—I shouldn’t be allowed out of the house. Thanks for telling me I’m doing a great job. ‘Cause I certainly didn’t feel like it at that moment. I’m gonna go stay in the house now. [Biz and Theresa both burst into laughter.]
biz
Wow. Yeah, you’re doing a horrible job. I gotta tell you though, why—one of my favorite things about this is when she’s like—[laughs]—‘cause I’ve done this? Where she does the thing that she thinks is genius—
theresa
Yeah!
biz
And she, like, actually says—
crosstalk
Theresa: Says it out loud! Biz: Check it out, guys! Look at that! Theresa: To people? Yeah. [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]
biz
Next level! Still thinking that you might get a reaction of help?
crosstalk
Biz: From the people around you? Theresa: Or support in some way? Yeah. Yeah. Biz: Or just anything, like, good job! [Biz and Theresa affirm each other as the thread of conversation passes back and forth.]
biz
Or like, like—when I’ve seen people, like, MacGyver shit together like that? I always am like, that’s genius! That’s amazing. Right? Like—
theresa
You’re doing great!
biz
Good job! I see it! Right? Not gonna help ya, but I see it. But like—[breaks off, laughing.]
theresa
Not gonna help you ‘cause you obviously don’t need help—
biz
Theresa: ‘Cause you’re doing such a great job! Yeah! Biz: You’ve got it! Look at all that that you’ve got!
biz
Yeah! And like, it’s… then it doesn’t work.
theresa
And then it doesn’t work. That’s great.
biz
It’s pretty—[breaks off, laughing.] [Biz emphatically affirms Theresa throughout.]
theresa
I feel like—no, I just feel like—I feel like—this reminds me about how when you first get a kid— [Biz laughs wildly.] —and/or you add a kid to any scenario? That feeling of, like, the main thing you’re trying to figure out? Is how to hold all the things you need to hold. Out in the world. And that’s the main thing that’s hard about being out in the world! At first. How do I hold all these things with only two hands? It’s really hard and confusing! And then you kinda start to get in the groove. You’re like, this hand always holds this thing while this goes there; I don’t take my kid out of the car seat until this is ready and then I—I bring this over here before I get—like, you kinda get—yeah. [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]
biz
Yeah! You get into your habit. And then something new comes along. It’s that moment where you’re like—oh, I have to carry this… food?
theresa
Yeah.
biz
Why did I think I could carry food? Yeah. Why did we think we could do anything?
theresa
Yup!
music
“Mom Song” by Adira Amram. Mellow piano music with lyrics You are the greatest mom I’ve ever known I love you, I love you When I have a problem, I call you on the phone I love you, I love you [Music fades out.]
biz
[Jazzy piano music begins, continues through dialogue.] One Bad Mother is supported in part by Mathnasium. Math is one of the most critical subjects our kids learn, but no child learns the same and what I’ve discovered is—it’s one of the hardest things to try and teach your child all by yourself! [Laughs.] That is why, uh, we got Katy Belle involved with Mathnasium, with one-on-one instructors and over 1,000 franchise locations worldwide. Mathnasium believes that any child can be successful in math. Katy Belle had so much fun doing math with this group! [Laughs.] You can contact Mathnasium today. Help your kids make sense of math with this special URL and phone number just for our listeners. You go to Mathnasium.com/obm, or call 855-354-MATH. Let’s let someone else teach our kids math! [Music fades out.]
promo
Music: Gentle, rhythmic music underscores the dialogue. Janet Varney: We are so thrilled at your interest in attending Hieronymous Wiggenstaff’s School for Heroism and Villainy! Wiggenstaff’s beautiful campus boasts state-of-the-art facilities and instructors with real-world experience! We are also proud to say that our alumni have gone on to be professional heroes and villains in the most renowned kingdoms in the world! But of course, you are not applying to the main school, are you? You’re applying for our sidekick and henchperson annex! You will still benefit from the school’s amazing campus, and! You’ll have a lifetime of steady employment. Of course… there’s no guarantee how long that lifetime will be. Travis McElroy: Join the McElroys as they return to Dungeons and Dragons with The Adventure Zone: Graduation. Every other Thursday on Maximum Fun, or wherever podcasts are found. [Music ends.]
promo
Music: Fun, jaunty, upbeat music. Renee: Well, Alexis, we got big news. Alexis: Uh-oh. Renee: Season one? Done. Alexis: It's over. Renee: Season two? Coming at you hot! Three years after— [Both laugh.] Alexis: Three and a half. Three and a half. Renee: —our season one. Alexis: Technically almost four years. Renee: Alright. Alright. And now it—listen! Alexis: Hm? Renee: Here at Can I Pet Your Dog?, the— Alexis: Yes. Renee: —smash hit podcast, our seasons run for three and a half years. [Alexis laughs.] And then in season two, we come at you with new, hot cohosts. Named you. Alexis: Hi, I'm Alexis. [Both laugh.] Renee: [Laughing] We also have, uh, future of dog tech! Alexis: Yeah! Renee: Dog news! Alexis: Dog news? Renee: Celebrity guests. Alexis: Oh, big shots! Renee: Will not let them talk about their resume. Alexis: Nope! Only their dogs! Renee: Yeahhh, only the dogs! I mean, if ever you were gonna get into Can I Pet Your Dog?— Alexis: Now is the time. Renee: Get in here! Every Tuesday at MaximumFun.org.
biz
Theresa? No guests today. But that’s okay. Because… I’ve had fun talking to you. And I’ve had fun listening to our genius and fail calls. So why don’t we really stop and sit in the presence of the real guest—and that is, the mom who’s about to have a breakdown?
caller
[Answering machine beeps.] Hi, Biz and Theresa. This is a rant. Um—[choking back tears]—I just found out that I’m six weeks pregnant with my third child and I’m so happy and we did it on purpose, but I keep having these feelings of what the fuck did we just do. [Sniffles.] We have a four-year-old girl and a two-year-old boy, oh, they’re not even that old but that’s how old they’ll be when this baby is born and… they’re wonderful, but they are so much work! [Sobs.] And I work two days a week, but my days are 14-hour days. And I’m just fucking tired. And my husband’s been gone for the last three days. [Sobs.] So he just came home and took the kids to the park to play, and he says it’s to give me a break, but my break is just gonna be taking a fucking shower. [Laughs through tears.] Finishing the laundry, cleaning the house, without your kids who’s constantly saying, “Mama, Mama, Mama, I need” my attention all the time. And I just have no idea how we’re gonna do this without [inaudible]. We did it on purpose and I want three kids, and I really want three kids, like, five years from now but I have no idea how I’m gonna do this. [Biz and/or Theresa chuckle quietly in background.] We don’t have any family in town. They live a couple hours away so we can arrange for help with enough notice, but oh my God sometimes I just need to call someone and say, please come take these kids for a few hours! [Laughing through tears.]
caller
And it’s just not an option. Anyway, I’m just really tired, and I think that hormone shit is happening and I’m just dreading this pregnancy because with the last two I puked from, like, six weeks to, like, six months. I puked like, 10 or 15 times a day and I got gestational diabetes and then I got pelvic organ prolapse and I just know what’s coming for me. And I’m just dreading it and I feel terrible for dreading it when I know so many people are struggling to get pregnant and I’m so happy that we’re pregnant but I’m just—already dreading this pregnancy and that feels fucking awful. Anyway, I know that the next few years are gonna be really hard. But we’ll get through it. And it’s what we want. And… I just need to get some sleep. But I needed to say it out loud. Thank you for letting me rant and thank you so much for this show. You guys are doing a fantastic job! And I think I am, too. And I think I will, but—[sobs]—fuck, I’m overwhelmed. Love you. Bye.
biz
You are doing… a really good job.
theresa
Yep. And we love you, too.
biz
Oh, God. We love you. And… y’know, I—I really should just… let Theresa respond, because I feel like… like this was something that you have—you may have some experience with?
theresa
Possibly.
biz
Possibly?
theresa
Mm-hm.
biz
So… Theresa, you wanna take this one? [Laughs.] [Biz affirms Theresa throughout.]
theresa
Sure! Yeah, I sympathize with you and I have totally been there, and… I think that this time is, like, a good time to remember that thing we talk about sometimes on this show, which is like… it’s normal and good to feel a lot of ways about something at the same time? It’s… great that you are happy too, and that you’re worried and… I kind of want to add that, like, I think sometimes when I… feel worried about something, I have a tendency to… expect it to be terrible because I somehow think that will soften the blow later? [Biz laughs.] If it’s really hard? Uh, because I don’t like being caught off-guard by something being hard? And you already know how hard it’s gonna be! Because you have a four-year-old and a two-year-old, or an almost-four-year-old and an almost-two-year-old. You already know. So, I just wanna remind you that you know probably a lot more about what’s coming than you think, and you’re gonna be okay. You—you made this decision, and it was the right decision for you guys, obviously. Um, and it’s gonna—it’s gonna be—it’s gonna be what it is and it’s gonna be great and it’s gonna be hard and it’s gonna be all that stuff, and you know that. And… that’s… that’s—
biz
And the—the feeling of, like, somebody just come take the kids for a little while?
theresa
Oh, yeah. [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]
biz
Absolutely. Doesn’t matter how many kids are in your house. Somebody come take these kids for a while is—
theresa
Yeah, or this kid.
biz
Yeah, or this kid.
theresa
Or this—puppy. [Biz laughs.] Or whatever you—whatever you have.
biz
Right. This is… that’s an incredibly real feeling, and it just ties in to, like…all—I mean, it sounds like you’re also dealing with a lot of, like… guilt issues? Of like… but I—this is supposed to be fun!
theresa
Yeah, or like, maybe we shouldn’t have done this! But—
biz
Well—
theresa
Well?
biz
But—it’s okay.
crosstalk
Theresa: Yeah! It’s okay! Yeah! Biz: And you’re not doing it at anybody.
biz
And… it’s… you’re remarkable.
theresa
Yeah, you are.
biz
And you are doing a good job.
theresa
Yes. You are doing a good job!
biz
Yeah, you really are!
theresa
Yes! Yes!
biz
Yeah!
crosstalk
Theresa: And congratulations! Biz: Congratulations! Theresa: I mean, come on!
theresa
That’s awesome! You’re gonna have a baby!
biz
It’s gonna be what it is. And… that is a thing! We’re all there with our things.
theresa
We’re all with our things. [Laughs.]
biz
You are remarkable.
theresa
I’m sorry, but that’s a shirt. “We’re all with our things.” [Laughs.] Here we are!
biz
Here we are—
crosstalk
Biz and Theresa: —with our things.
biz
Theresa, what did we learn today? Well, I think we just learned that we’re all with our things.
theresa
Yeah, we are.
biz
Yeah. Not gonna call those things good or bad!
theresa
Nope! It’s all our things!
crosstalk
Biz: It’s all our things! Theresa: We all have all our things.
biz
We have all our things. With us. All the time! Every minute of the day! [Laughs.] At the store! When you’re sleeping! At car line! In an important meeting!
theresa
Even when our things are with a babysitter— [Biz laughs.] —we still have all our things.
biz
Yeah! There is no—somebody come get all these things! [Theresa laughs.] We learned… that… children are actually people. [Theresa laughs.] And—
theresa
And they exist in the world.
biz
And they exist in the world.
theresa
And sometimes in restaurants.
biz
Yeah, I mean… [sighs.] I dunno, it’s nice to go out!
theresa
Yes. [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]
biz
And we shouldn’t feel punished for going out, and I know restaurants are doing their best. It’s just that, like, every kid is different? And… y’know, I just… have yet to see the kid who’s eaten that fancy grilled cheese. [Laughs.]
theresa
Yeah. If they’re ordering grilled cheese, chances are they don’t want it to be fancy.
biz
They don’t! If they’re ordering from the kids’ menu, chances are they don’t want it to be fancy. What we learned? Carry white bread in your purse! [Laughs.] Be those people. We also learned that Theresa and I really wanted to talk selfishly about—[laughs]—our experience with taking kids out to restaurants as the adults. We wanted that perspective, versus sharing anything that might be helpful about how we help our children get through the restaurant experience. And I think… that’s okay, ‘cause sometimes we just need a place to rant, but… I think it also sort of goes without saying that… however! You or the family at the table next to you? Needs to help their children get through? This… eating out experience? ‘Cause sometimes it—we’re not out for fun. Sometimes we’re out because there is a family member in town, or it’s a wedding, or it’s a whatever. Right? That like… don’t side-eye the kid who’s sitting under the table eating their entire dinner down there. Right? Like… Don’t side-eye the iPad; don’t side-eye the—don’t feel bad if some other, y’know, kid is reading a book. Right? Like—[breaks off, laughing.] [Biz and Theresa affirm each other as the thread of conversation quickly switches back and forth between them.]
crosstalk
Theresa: Or maybe a kid isn’t eating. At dinner. Biz: Yeah, or just isn’t eating!
theresa
Just is there, but isn’t gonna eat at the restaurant.
biz
Just isn’t gonna eat at the restaurant.
theresa
Or has noise-cancelling headphones on. Which we sometimes need to use if the restaurant’s noisy. Like—
biz
It’s too noisy!
theresa
Yeah!
biz
You’re not doing a bad job as a parent if your kid’s doing any of those things or something else, and the other people aren’t doing a bad job as a parent, and… I think if you are out to dinner with somebody who has kids—[laughs]—and their kid’s not eating? It’s okay.
theresa
Yeah, it’s okay!
biz
It’s okay.
theresa
Yep. [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]
biz
You can—you can let that one go. Right? This is kind of what I took away today. And this gotta ties into—when—I normally tell you guys that you’re doing a great job. I was thinking about Theresa and Gracie sleeping under the stairs— [Theresa laughs.] —and… I—like, that brings me… such joy. Because I think it indicates, like, what a good job you’re doing as a parent? Because I think, like, if you go back when we first started this, there was so much self-judgment, there was so much self-doubt about—like—y’know, decisions that we make in our own damn homes! You know what I mean? That like, we—our instinct says, this is a good call. But if anybody saw this, they might think differently. And I think it’s such a comfort to remember that everybody has a kid under the stairs. In their homes. Right? Like—whether it’s the stairs; whether it’s the—yeah, I let my kid, like, walk around in a swimsuit all day! Right? Or like, we definitely take a bath fully dressed. Or we—like—kids are weirdos. And so are we. And like, I think… it’s nice—not—not just to remember that everybody’s out there trying to get through it with their things? Right, like that—y’know, it’s really hard and… that’s something to be aware of? But I think it’s also worth identifying in your own house, your set of stair-living. [Laughs.] Whatever that is! And knowing that that’s going on in somebody else’s house. And that… when you think that somebody’s doing something weird, just to remember the own weirdness that’s going on in—in your place. Right?
biz
Like—and that’s good. And if you’re—like, that means you’re accepting your kids as humans in the world? And you are letting them adapt to your lives. And you’re adapting your life to theirs. And I just… that makes me feel good? Knowing that we’re all out there, trying to do those things? I—and so—I just wanna tell everybody, you’re doing a good job. And… if you’ve been hesitant about… letting your kids sleep under the stairs—or whatever! [Theresa laughs.] I’m just using this as an example for all things. Just remember that there’s a lot going on under the stairs in lots of people’s houses. And—and it’s okay. Try it out. See what happens. [Theresa laughs.] You’re all doing a remarkable job with your things. Theresa? You are doing a very good job.
theresa
Thanks, Biz. That was really nice. You’re also doing a really great job.
biz
Thank you! And we will talk to you guys next week!
crosstalk
Biz and Theresa: Byeee!
music
“Mama Blues” by Cornbread Ted and the Butterbeans. Strumming acoustic guitar with harmonica and lyrics. I got the lowdown momma blues Got the lowdown momma blues Gots the lowdown momma blues The lowdown momma blues Gots the lowdown momma blues Got the lowdown momma blues You know that’s right [Music fades somewhat, plays in background of dialogue.]
biz
We’d like to thank Max Fun; our producer, Hannah Smith; our husbands, Stefan Lawrence and Jesse Thorn; our perfect children, who provide us with inspiration to say all these horrible things; and of course, you, our listeners. To find out more about the songs you heard on today’s podcast and more about the show, please go to MaximumFun.org/onebadmother. For information about live shows, our book and press, please check out OneBadMotherPodcast.com.
theresa
One Bad Mother is a member of the Maximum Fun family of podcasts. To support the show go to MaximumFun.org/donate. [Music continues for a while before fading out.]
speaker 2
Comedy and culture.
speaker 3
Artist owned—
speaker 4
—Audience supported.
About the show
One Bad Mother is a comedy podcast hosted by Biz Ellis about motherhood and how unnatural it sometimes is. We aren’t all magical vessels!
Join us every week as we deal with the thrills and embarrassments of motherhood and strive for less judging and more laughing.
Call in your geniuses and fails: 206-350-9485. For booking and guest ideas, please email onebadmother@maximumfun.org. To keep up with One Bad Mother on social media, follow @onebadmothers on Twitter and Instagram.
Get in touch with the show
onebadmother@maximumfun.org
@OneBadMothers
@onebadmothers
How to listen
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