TRANSCRIPT Ep. 326: Truth Or Dare? Plus, Alison Rosen

biz ellis

This is Biz. I’m a part-time working mom with two full-blown kids.

theresa thorn

And I’m Theresa. I have a family business, two young kids, and a toddler.

biz

This is a show about life after giving life. Don’t listen with your kids, ‘cause there will be swears. This… is One Bad Mother.

music

“Summoning the Rawk” by Kevin MacLeod. Driving electric guitar and heavy drums. [Continues through dialogue.]

biz

This week, on a very spooooky Halloween One Bad Mother, it’s time for Truth or Dare! Plus, Biz talks and talks; Theresa has a diary update; and we get childish with Alison Rosen.

crosstalk

Biz and Theresa: [Cheering] Wooooo! [Biz trails off the cheer into a ghost-style spooky “oOooO!”]

biz

[Singing to the “This Is Halloween” tune from The Nightmare Before Christmas] It is Halloween! It is Halloween! [Regular voice.] Theresa?

crosstalk

Theresa: Oh hey! It’s the Great Pumpkin— [Biz gasps.] Biz: [With extreme enthusiasm] Wait, where?! Theresa: Charlie Brown! Biz: Oh, it is!

biz

If you need me, I’ll be sitting along in a pumpkin patch, constantly not being believed. [Cracks up.] [Theresa laughs quietly.] Oh, it’s like my whole parenting experience! [Theresa laughs.] Theresa—[breaks off, laughing.] Theresa, how are you?

theresa

Ohhh! My back hurts! Still.

biz

Happy Halloween!

theresa

I know. [Biz laughs.] So I have a little diary update. And that really does sound like I’m saying I have a diarrhea update.

biz

It does. You’re welcome.

theresa

Should I say “Journal Update”?

biz

Nope! Too late. [Laughs.]

theresa

[Biz affirms Theresa throughout.] Okay. So…if you didn’t listen to last week’s show I talked about how I suddenly got very angry—or not suddenly, but it was like a gradual build to me being very angry at my five-year diary, which I have kept now for almost five years. And have been writing in diligently for many of those five years, up until recently, when it all kind of just fell apart. Due to emotions. [Biz laughs.] Um—

biz

You mean the diary didn’t just seal away those emotions? [Laughs.] [Theresa bursts out laughing.] Isn’t that how it’s supposed to work? Like—

crosstalk

Theresa: Yes, and it got— Biz: Like a wizard thing! [Laughs wildly.]

theresa

And it got so soaked. And so saturated with emotions that it just started to—

crosstalk

Theresa: Disintegrate. Yeah. Biz: Yeah. It created—yeah, it created, like, an actual entity.

theresa

Oh god. [Theresa laughs.]

biz

Of just…emotion. Anyway. I believe that was your update. [Laughs.]

theresa

[Biz affirms Theresa throughout.] Yeah. No, but I just—uh, I did want to give an update. Because I actually—I feel like that conversation/me yelling at all of you guys— [Biz laughs.] —was very therapeutic for me! And so after a couple of days after that, and then after, y’know, we edited this show—you edited this show and then I listened to the show, and after hearing it again, I really did feel that it was…it…I felt better. Just getting that off my chest. And like, I went back a few days later and looked at the diary and flipped through, and…it was actually because I went to post a picture of it on Instagram, on our One Bad Mothers Instagram, if you guys aren’t following that it’s @onebadmothers on Instagram. And I kinda just caught some entries and had a different reaction this time. Like, it was like once I kind of, like, got the icky feelings out? I was like, more able to…look at it and see, y’know, there’s actually also really a lot of great stuff in here and I’m really glad it exists? And…so I was thinking, like, how can I not just, like, throw this away. Y’know? Like, can—I can either stop now, and let it be what it is, and that’s still something meaningful to me, or what somebody suggested on the Facebook group was, like, that she had a similar experience and felt like she just decided to start writing in it when she wanted to.

theresa

And I kind of like that.

biz

That’s good.

theresa

So I think I might try that. I still have, like, several months left, this is my last lap. But I can write in it when I want to and I have something really nice that I want to share, and I can look at it when I want to and just, like, let it be what it is…and that is helpful.

biz

Can I make a suggestion?

theresa

Sure!

biz

[Theresa agrees with Biz throughout.] You should, like, write a little note that says just that. Right? Like, “Dear Self, I am,” y’know, “doing this, and I’m gonna start doing this" and, y’know, stick it in where you start it, so that’s part of your memory as well down the road? ‘Cause I really think, like…those five-year diary sorts of things aren’t meant for now. They’re meant for, like, 20 years from now, when you’re so far removed and you’ve processed it all? Or maybe to remind you, like, when you’re around parents who are new parents? [Laughs wildly.] Like, you can go back to your diary and be like, “Oh, that’s right. I should remember to be extra nice to you.” [Laughs.] Well good job! I think that’s good. I’m glad to hear it.

theresa

Thanks. How are you?

biz

[Theresa affirms Biz throughout.] Ohhhh, I’m here. I just wanted to say, like, I have been out and about more given that Ellis is in kindergarten and he’s at the same school that Katy Belle is at, so…I find that I have a chance to be a lot more social than I was when it was just drop one off, drop one off, go. Run for your life. And…I’m very lucky Ellis has a great kindergarten class—like, I really like all these parents as I’m getting to know them—but…I’m like, left with this feeling when I get through talking with parents? Like, either at the school right after drop-off or, y’know, as the kids walk in when we’re all, like, waiting. Or…I was at a party this weekend for one of Ellis’s friends, so all the parents are hanging out and talking. And then when I get home or I’m in the car, I always feel like…feel like I just talked at that person, like I don’t know how to talk to people? Well, I know how to talk; I don’t know how to have a conversation with people anymore? And I really felt like that came about with the isolation of having kids and then suddenly you’re out and you get to have a kind of adult conversations again? And I apparently still don’t know—or my feeling experience—is that I still don’t know how to have those conversations? I either want to just, like…complain about everything? Or make sure they see that I’m struggling somehow. We’ve talked about that, where it’s like, “Whoa! This is really hard.” Y’know, or, uh, just talk at—and then, like, I’m always like, “Did that person have a good time talking to me?” [Theresa laughs.]

biz

Like, or am I that person. Right? Like, did they have a nice time?

theresa

I mean…yeah. No, I just—I relate so much. And by the way, they probably did have a good time, ‘cause you’re very charming and fun. So—

biz

I—I appreciate that.

theresa

[Biz affirms Theresa throughout.] Yeah. So just so you know, I agree that this is a feeling experience? [Biz laughs.] But also, I have felt the same way a lot of times? And I think it really is, like, the isolation and we’re out of practice? And we’re kind of different people than we were when we were having these, like, social—regular social interactions with peers? Like— [Biz laughs.] We’re now different and so we’re trying to, like, relearn in some ways how, like, who we are and how to be social people with new people?

crosstalk

Biz: Yeah—whe—and that, like, because—what we are are parents! Theresa: And who we are to those people and—how to do it! Yeah! Yeah!

biz

And the thing that’s bringing us together are kids, so—there is this new dynamic of, am I talking about kids? Are we talking about kids right now?

crosstalk

Theresa: Should we? Is it—that’s the only reason. Yeah. Biz: Should we? Is that—right.

biz

And then that feeds into the, like, only talking shit about my kids? [Laughs.]

theresa

[Biz affirms Theresa throughout.] Well, that’s the other piece of this which is—I think if our kids are a little atypical in any way, there is a desire—at least on my part—to control the narrative a lot of times? And kind of get ahead of…something that somebody might notice is different about my kid? Or might notice is different about me or how I’m parenting differently in some way? And so I do overshare sometimes because I’m trying to control…what they perceive about me, so that let—y’know, just to make sure that they don’t decide to judge me before they know more. Do you know what I’m saying?

biz

Oh, I know exactly what you’re saying.

theresa

So that totally floods me when I’m talking to people.

biz

[Theresa affirms Biz throughout.] So basically, we’re completely incapable— [Theresa laughs.] —of having any conversations, uh, with each other. So if you ever run into us out in the world and talk to us, it’s not you. It’s definitely us. It’s sort of like looking into the mirror and discovering that [increasingly dramatic voice] you are the very monster that you were afraid of. Which ties in nicely to Halloween, which ties in not at all to what we’re gonna talk about today— [Theresa laughs.] —which is: truth or dare?

music

Banjo strums; cheerful banjo music continues through dialogue.

theresa

Please—take a moment to remember: If you’re friends of the hosts of One Bad Mother, you should assume that when we talk about other moms, we’re talking about you.

biz

If you are married to the host of One Bad Mother, we definitely are talking about you.

theresa

Nothing we say constitutes professional parenting advice.

biz

Biz and Theresa’s children are brilliant, lovely, and exceedingly extraordinary.

theresa

Nothing said on this podcast about them implies otherwise. [Banjo music fades out.]

biz

Theresa.

theresa

Yes.

biz

Truth or dare: have you ever played “Truth or Dare” and accidentally killed one of your friends, who then later comes back to haunt you until you die?

theresa

[Gasps.]

crosstalk

Biz: No? That’s not? Theresa: I don’t think so.

biz

Oh. Okay! Alright. Well—

theresa

I’ve never actually heard of that.

biz

Oh! [Laughs.] It’s like every horror film. [Laughs.]

theresa

[Through laughter] Oh!

biz

[High-pitched panicked voice] “We played ‘Truth or Dare’ and Jenny drowned in a lake!” [Regular voice, through laughter] Y’know, like, how did that even wind up, right? Like…good times. Not my experience, either.

theresa

Okay, good.

biz

With “Truth or Dare.” Um—

theresa

I got worried. [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]

biz

I kind of really like the idea of starting by talking about the rules of “Truth or Dare.” Okay? And it—‘cause it feels like there are no rules to “Truth or Dare,” but there are. Okay. One, I think is…you have to, like, sit in a circle. [Laughs.] Right? That’s part of “Truth or Dare.”

theresa

You’re totally sitting in a circle.

biz

Sitting in a circle. Okay. How to play “Truth or Dare” is you have to pick “truth” or “dare.” And when you do that, it is—here’s a question. In your “Truth or Dare” experiences, if you were the person picking truth or dare, was there one person assigning you a truth or dare, or was it a committee process?

theresa

I think it was a committee.

biz

It’s a committee! Yeah. A committee, ‘cause it’s a little odd to play “Truth or Dare” just with two people? I mean, that’s like—that’s basically having a conversation. [Laughs.]

theresa

Right. Yeah.

crosstalk

Biz: Somebody who might be a jerk! Yeah! Yeah! Exactly. Theresa: Yeah. And getting up to mischief together. Yeah.

biz

So there’s a committee. Alright. What happens if you pick “truth” and then you don’t wanna answer it? Do you remember what the rules are for this?

theresa

No! So I thought it was, like, you choose up-front truth or dare. So…you have—oh! If you have to answer the question or you have to do the dare. So if they ask the question and you don’t wanna answer it—

biz

Yes. It’s too personal. It’s too much.

theresa

Then I think I—I guess in my memory we would just switch to “dare” at that point.

biz

Yeah, you would have to—but what if you’re in the middle of it and you don’t want to do either? I was talking with my sister about this beforehand, and she was like—she said the same thing! She was like, “I don’t remember what happened!” And I was like, “Oh, I do. Basically, if you decline to do both, you were just an outcast and bullied forever.” [Laughs wildly.]

theresa

Yeah. Right. Exactly. Yeah!

crosstalk

Biz: I mean, just bullied for the rest of the night. [Laughs wildly.] Theresa: I mean, you can’t not do both!

theresa

[Biz affirms Theresa throughout.] I definitely have a vague memory of, like, doing a truth, not wanting to answer it, taking a dare, deciding I couldn’t do the dare, and just reluctantly answering the truth questions? Yeah.

crosstalk

Biz: So those are the rules— Theresa: Yeah, that makes sense. Yes! Yes. Biz: ‘Cause otherwise, yeah! You’re gonna be tormented and, like, made fun of.

biz

Truth or Dare: let’s hear it for games! [Laughs.] Okay. When…do you think you were playing “Truth or Dare” the most? Like, what age, like, what—

theresa

High school.

biz

Yours was high school. Not middle?

crosstalk

Theresa: No—I mean maybe— Biz: How?

theresa

We probably did, actually, and I probably just don’t remember. I—I—what I’m remembering more is, like, ninth, tenth grade. But—

biz

Okay. Ninth, tenth. Before cars.

crosstalk

Theresa: Yeah! Before cars. Biz: Before somebody got a car.

theresa

Yeah! Yeah. But no, I think, now that you mention it, we probably were playing earlier and I just wasn’t thinking that far back. Yeah.

biz

Why…do you think…we play “Truth or Dare”?

theresa

Power… [Biz laughs.] Mind games?

biz

[Cheering] Woo! I love it! [Theresa laughs.] I love it!

crosstalk

Biz: Yeah, I guess—yeah! Theresa: I mean, really.

biz

Yeah—I—I was gonna steal what my sister said, which was “for the thrill of it,” right? The thrill, and you stop playing it basically when you’re old enough to get your thrills somewhere else. Right? Like…so, at—it’s like a—but you’re right! You’re right! I agree with you, too. I wanna— [Theresa laughs.] —get into that. As we’re talking about the truth—[serious voice] this is how it all leads to murder, everybody. [Theresa laughs harder.] Accidental murder. Yeah. I was mainly middle school? I remember, like, middle school. Right? Okay. So…what…were some dares? That you remember.

theresa

So, this is interesting, ‘cause I feel like…if I—it depends on the age. Because I think—the high school “Truth or Dare” was really just spin the bottle. It was essentially—

biz

Oh! You were playing coed “Truth or Dare”?

theresa

Yeah.

biz

Woooo!

crosstalk

Theresa: But also—yeah. But—yeah. Biz: That’s truth. That’s—

theresa

I think it was mostly an excuse to kiss people.

biz

Yeah. To kiss people.

crosstalk

Biz: Without consent. [Laughs.] Theresa: I think when we were younger—yeah. Yeah.

theresa

I think when we were younger, it was calling the person you had a crush on. Calling a person that had a crush on you if you didn’t like them back, which is horrible.

biz

That’s horrible. Nothing good comes out of “Truth or Dare,” by the way. [Laughs.]

theresa

Yeah. There were probably little, like, ones that were, like, playing tricks on Mom and Dad or breaking a rule in the house? Like, sneaking cookies or—

crosstalk

Biz: [Dramatic voice] Go into their room and steal something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Theresa: Go into the room and—yeah, totally. Yeah.

theresa

Which I was never up for that.

biz

Were you more of a “truth” person or “dare” person? [Laughs.]

theresa

Definitely—well, what do you think?

biz

I think you were a truth person. [Laughs wildly.]

theresa

I was definitely a truth person. I probably did, like, one dare in my whole life. [Biz continues laughing.] I don’t think—yeah. I didn’t—

biz

Do you remember what that dare was? [Laughs as Theresa continues talking.]

theresa

I’m sure it was kissing somebody or call-calling a boy or something. [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]

biz

Yeah, I think you’re right. I remember stuff like calling the crush, right, like [nervous high voice] Oh my God! It’s gonna be him! [Normal voice] And hanging up. Having to—I can remember having to go through phone books to try and figure out which y’know, David—

crosstalk

Biz: Y’know, David—right, was the right “Joe David.” Right? Theresa: Oh, yeah! Which—Smith. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. Oh absolutely.

biz

And that was fun. Regular prank calls.

theresa

Yeah, regular prank calls. For sure.

biz

Yeah, regular prank calls was good. Then there were like—like physical ones that were like, “Put your bra in the freezer.”

crosstalk

Theresa: Drink this weird mixture. Biz: Put ice—Yeah. Drink this weird mixture.

biz

[Theresa affirms Biz throughout.] Put ice in your underpants. I’m like, why aren’t people putting ice in their underpants? “Katy Belle, go put some ice in your underpants!” [Laughs.] “With your friend.” Yeah. A lot of the dares were also…y’know, like…you show me yours, I’ll show you mine kinda thing?

crosstalk

Theresa: Oh, we didn’t get that. Nope. Biz: Do you remember any of that? Like, where it was like—

biz

[Theresa vehemently and repeatedly asserts throughout that she did not approach anything like “you show me yours, I’ll show you mine” while playing “Truth or Dare.”] Y’know. Yeah. Showing body parts? Again—we never did coed. We were always—

theresa

But even with—even with all girls. Um, we never did that.

biz

There was like—yes. Well.

theresa

We did make bra-sicles.

biz

Yeah, bra—and then you had to put them on and wear them, or just make bra-sicles?

theresa

We just made bra-sicles. [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]

biz

[Laughs.] Did you steal your mother’s bra, put it in the freezer? When it comes to truths, right…I think this is where the power comes in. ‘Cause like, what’s the point of a truth question? Because no one ever is like, “What do you want to be when you grow up?” [Theresa bursts out laughing.] “What are you struggling with right now, Theresa?” Like, no one’s asking that kind of truth question? I—as an adult, looking back, it’s all clear to me now that the truth questions were all about power. They were all like, super invasive and personal and you know the risk, the thrill, in the truth question—I used to think “Dare” was the thrill, but now I’m thinking it might be the truth is that if you revealed that secret, all of these people know. And they—one of them will be a snitch. There’s always one. I feel like the truth question right at the beginning of the game should be—

crosstalk

Biz: Are you gonna—who’s the snitch? Theresa: “Who’s the snitch.”

biz

“Who do you think here is gonna, like…break first and reveal all our secrets to everybody? It’s definitely Susan.” [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] Um—so, like, the truth questions were always like “Who do you like?”

theresa

Who do you like.

biz

Right? Who—have you ever stolen anything. [Laughs.] Have you ever shit your pants? [Theresa laughs.] Have you ever, like, what’s the like—[breaks off, laughing raucously.] What’s the—or wet the bed?

crosstalk

Theresa: What’s the worst thing you’ve ever done? Yeah. Biz: Ever done? Who do you hate?

theresa

Yeah.

biz

Right? Like—who do you—

crosstalk

Theresa: Who would you rather kiss, this person or this person? Yeah. Biz: Yeah. Or that person.

biz

Oh, what an awkward time!

crosstalk

Theresa: Whose boyfriend would you steal? Yeah. Biz: Oh, yeah! Yeah! [Laughs.] God. Theresa: Just horrible. Biz: What—I wonder what this will be like for this generation coming up.

biz

Who is—hopefully—approaching the world with a much broader, like, gender identity? Like, approach?

crosstalk

Biz: Y’know what I mean? Theresa: Woke “Truth or Dare”? [Laughs.] Biz: With more woke—[breaks off, laughing.]

biz

Yes! Yes! Woke “Truth or Dare!” Woooo! I love it. I do remember, like…yeah, how far have you gone. Oh yeah.

crosstalk

Biz: How far have you— Theresa: How far would you go.

biz

Just to the mall? [Theresa laughs.] And back? What are you guys talking about?

theresa

What do you mean? I don’t get it. [Biz makes incoherent sound, laughs.]

biz

Did you ever have an experience in which you told a truth and then you were, like, really scared that it was gonna be revealed by the people? [Biz affirms Theresa throughout.]

theresa

I think I—I think that probably happened a lot. I don’t have, like, a specific—but I definitely feel like much of my childhood and, like…like, tween and teen years? Were spent, like, trying to—

biz

Being betrayed? [Laughs.] [Biz continues affirming Theresa as Theresa speaks.]

theresa

Well, just trying to, like, navigate the social…situation. With my friends. Like, I was usually like the sidekick to some more powerful girl. [Biz laughs.] Y’know? And, like…that was usually just my role. [Through laughter] Like, I went to a lot of different schools and lived in a lot of different places but the—somehow that always—

crosstalk

Theresa: —worked out. Yeah! Yeah! Biz: Find the strong one and sit next to her. It’s a good survival skill. Theresa: It’s—it worked for me. In lots of ways. Biz: Yeah. Yeah!

theresa

But it’s also risky business a lot of times!

biz

Oh, it is risky business.

theresa

Yeah! [Biz laughs raucously.] So—[breaks off, laughing.]

biz

[Theresa affirms Biz throughout.] You are in the risk zone! ‘Cause that’s what it is! I think that is pretty much all of the middle/high-school experience. Is “beware of betrayal.” Katy Belle is going through this a little. She’s got, like, a nice group of friends that’s developing and it’s great. But there is one! Who constantly is telling her stuff to the rest of the group before she can tell it! And it’s like…none of it’s, like, really a secret-secret? It’s just—

theresa

But it’s like, not hers to tell.

biz

[Theresa affirms Biz throughout.] It’s not hers to tell! And then of course like two minutes later everybody’s like, friends again, and I’m just like, oh God. I don’t want to be witness to this the rest of my life. I have like—and I—it’s—just have nothing to say to her. Y’know? Like, oh well. I guess she’ll have to invite her to play “Truth or Dare” and murder her. [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] Okay. Why don’t we play “Truth or Dare” as adults? As general fun, not as—it’s not an invitation. I’m just—

crosstalk

Theresa: [Knowing tone] Some adults probably do. Biz: Some adults do!

biz

Do you—but I mean, do you ever have, like—A), it’s so rare that I’m ever with a group of my friends. [Laughs.]

crosstalk

Biz: Would you— Theresa: I could imagine if I, like, went away with a group of friends or something. Biz: Yeah. You would play “Truth or Dare.” Theresa: That—that could be fun.

biz

That would be.

theresa

But it might not even be that.

crosstalk

Theresa: I don’t know. Biz: I don’t know.

theresa

That doesn’t even appeal to me right now. I don’t know why.

biz

If I asked you to go put your bra in the freezer, would it be funny, or would you be like, “Ugh.”

crosstalk

Theresa: I’d be like [sighs] I don’t wanna…do that. Biz: Drink! Drink, Theresa!

biz

I dare you to drink this entire bottle of rosé. [Laughs wildly.]

theresa

Yeah. It’s just like…not….yeah. Just does not appeal anymore. I dunno. [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]

biz

My—so my sister hosts this game night fundraiser for a friend of hers in her apartment like, maybe twice a year or once a year? And they have different like—you pay to come in, and they have, like, four games; a puzzle room; y’know, like people are doing jigsaw puzzles. But one of the things that they’ve been doing is a “dare bag.” And you get points if you do the dare, and then, like, whoever has the most points—and so everybody puts in the dare. So it’s like, y’know, go get…the hostess’s bathrobe and wear it around the party for the rest of the night. And you get three points. Right? She says it is the highlight of the entire party, but she did say that, like, they went back and looked at the ones from three years ago? And she was like, “Woooo! There was a lot of non-consent stuff. Like ‘Spoon with another player.’” Right? [Laughs.]

theresa

Oh, wow.

biz

Like, all of the ones that have been suggested were, like, y’know—

theresa

Things we wouldn’t suggest?

biz

Take, y’know, take the hostess’s red lipstick, and then for every kiss-print that is left on another player, you get a point? Like, shit like that? Like—

crosstalk

Theresa: Oh wow. Biz: I know. It ain’t woke. [Laughs.]

theresa

Nope.

biz

[Through laughter, inaudible]

theresa

I have to ask, are your kids playing “Truth or Dare” yet? [Theresa affirms Biz as Biz speaks.]

biz

That’s a really good question. Okay. That is a good question. So…Katy Belle…has, like, she knows of “Truth or Dare.” Like, she knows the concept. I do not—I have not heard—she has never really done a playdate or sleepover with more than one person. Yet. And that would implode. So that’s why I don’t think it’s been played. She’s tried to do that thing, like, where she’s like, “Do you wanna play ‘Truth or Dare’ with me?” Y’know, because it’s—y’know. And that’ll happen until she stops seeing me as a friend. And she’s like…and I’m like, no, ‘cause that’s not how you play it. Um—[breaks off, laughing]. [Theresa laughs.] No. So that’s it. And I haven’t heard her, like, do it to her brother yet. I mean, like, my sister and I—I don’t—I think we used to maybe play? I feel like I have a vague memory of playing “Truth or Dare” with her, but I think it really was just about…getting me to do shit? And make—but—y’know what I mean? Like, like let’s say she had a friend over and she was like, “I dare you to go get me chips.” Y’know? Like—or “I dare you to do this thing that’s, like, super embarr—” Y’know? Just, like, to fuck with? So no! How about you? Have your kids started playing “Truth or Dare”?

theresa

So— [Biz laughs.] Grace, I think she read about it in Sisters or Smile—one of those books? And she asked me, “Mommy,” like—I think she asked how—like—she asked about “Truth or Dare.” Yeah. She asked about “Truth or Dare.” What is it, wanted to understand it better. And I was—I explained it to her and I said, it’s really a game for, like, older kids. Like—like, y’know, 13, 14, 15. Like that.

biz

When you have good questions to ask. [Laughs.] [Biz affirms Theresa throughout.]

theresa

Yeah. I was like, “It’s for older kids!” and she’s like, “Why?” And I was like—uh, just [makes jumbled noise akin to “mehglblrgh”] I dunno. It’s just—we’re—like, I dunno. It just is. It’s for older kids. It’s just—it’s just one of those things. And…immediately— [Biz giggles.] —the next day, she comes home from school. “I played ‘Truth or Dare.’” [Biz laughs.] And I was like, wow. It—y’know, she played with, like, a friend at school and her friend at school said “There’s no reason why you should have to wait until you’re older,” and so they—whatever. [Biz laughs raucously.] I don’t even—nothing happened. Like nothing happened, but the point is, it was one of those things where I was like, oh yeah. I should not have, like…said that. Because now she has to go and prove me wrong.

biz

Right. For the rest of your life, Theresa. [Laughs wildly.]

theresa

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

biz

[Sighs.]

music

“Ones and Zeroes” by “Awesome.” Steady, driving electric guitar with drum and woodwinds. [Music fades out.]

biz

[Chill acoustic guitar plays in background.] One Bad Mother is brought to you in part by Michelin.

theresa

Parents, we’ve all been there. We’re sitting in car line. You’re not looking at your phone while you’re sitting still in car line. Then, you look up from not looking at your phone, and you see the car in front of you is starting to inch forward! So you set down the phone that you weren’t looking at, and you also start to inch forward, and then all of a sudden the person in front of you slams on their brakes for some reason! I dunno, there’s kids everywhere! [Biz laughs.] It’s terrifying! So for a split second, you might be terrified whether you will stop in time to not cause a car accident in car line in front of your kids’ schools. [Biz laughs wildly.]

biz

Stopping safely—and consistently!—matters. When worn, Michelin Premier All-Season Tires come to a complete stop. Some other worn tires are still traveling over 15 miles per hour. So next time, when you’re looking for new tires for the family car, consider Michelin Premier All-Season Tires. Michelin: Performance Every Time. [Music fades out.]

theresa

Hey, you know what it’s time for! This week’s genius and fails! This is the part of the show where we share our genius moment of the week, as well as our failures, and feel better about ourselves by hearing yours. You can share some of your own by calling 206-350-9485. That’s 206-350-9485.

biz

Genius fail time, Theresa. Genius me!

clip

[Dramatic, swelling music in background.] Biz: Wow! Oh my God! Oh my God! I saw what you did! Oh my God! I’m paying attention! Wow! You, mom, are a genius. Oh my God, that’s fucking genius!

theresa

[Biz affirms Theresa throughout.] Over the weekend, I took Oscar with me to San Francisco, uh, for one night. Two days and one night. And we were there for my cousin’s baby shower and we also stayed with a good friend of mine and her family. And it was one of those things that probably…six months or a year ago, I would’ve felt I could just not have done? ‘Cause I didn’t have the bandwidth; I couldn’t figure out how to leave the kids; I didn’t wanna travel even with one kid; I wouldn’t know which kid to bring or I wouldn’t know if I could leave Curtis—y’know? So it felt like a new level. This—this not only felt manageable to do, but actually was fun. Like, Jesse could be at home with the other two kids, they had a nice weekend, and Oscar and I got some time just the two of us, and it’s pretty easy just traveling with one five-and-a-half-year old!

crosstalk

Biz: Once you’ve traveled with three, the one really seems right. Yeah. Theresa: That—yeah!

theresa

So…we had fun! And that was my genius moment.

biz

Oh, I’m so glad!

theresa

Yeah, thanks!

biz

Good job!

theresa

Thank you. [Theresa affirms Biz throughout.]

biz

So Stefan was out of town this weekend, and I do have quite a bit going on leading up to Halloween, school Halloween, my parents are coming for a visit, like, lots of things happening. So I needed to run an errand on Sunday, and I didn’t want to do it with the kids, and Katy Belle had a playdate, and so I got ahead of it and I got a babysitter to take care of Ellis and that—with a little extra time, so I could actually go and breathe, and I invited my friend to come with me on my little errand. And then my babysitter cancelled ‘cause she had the days wrong, and that’s okay! And I was like, okay, this isn’t, like, the be-all, end-all of errands. Okay. Technically I could take Ellis with me. So I text my friend and I said, “My babysitter cancelled, so…I’m gonna take—Ellis will be with us.” And she responds, “Well, would you rather go by yourself and I’ll hang out with Ellis?” And—like you, like three years ago I might’ve said no? But…I said—[laughs.] Actually, my response was, “That is incredibly nice. May I think about it and tell you tomorrow? Like, on the day?” And she was like, “Absolutely.” And it was just this, like, moment of feeling like heard? And so the next day, I asked Ellis—Ellis, I have to go run an errand; do you wanna come with me, or do you wanna hang with my friend? Who he has grown up with. And he was like, “Oh, I’d like to hang with her! And show her all my Legos!”

biz

And so that’s what happened! And it—

theresa

Amazing.

crosstalk

Biz: It really helped me. Theresa: A-MAZ-ING.

biz

[Theresa affirms Biz throughout.] I got to do the errand with the focus that I needed, and I let somebody help me? With Ellis? And they had a great time?

theresa

That’s so good!

biz

Yeah! [Singsong voice] Growing.

theresa

Good job.

biz

Thank you.

caller

[Answering machine beeps.] Here’s a fucking genius for you! It’s actually two. The first genius is, I saved your guys’ phone number in my phone so I don’t have to look it up on the website every time I have a genius or a fail. That’s the first part. Second part! I’m in Lowe’s looking for a toilet seat. I have a two-year-old. My husband’s in-laws came, cracked both of our toilet seats—don’t ask me how—um, so I’m on the hunt for a toilet seat. I have a two-year-old, as I mentioned, in the middle of potty training, with a Paw Patrol potty seat that she loves to take and run around the house with, so when she actually has to pee I have no idea where it is. So the genius is: I just bought a fucking toilet seat with her built-in toddler seat! It can’t go anywhere! And so I just bought two! And I’m a fucking genius because I never have to find that fucking Paw Patrol potty ever again. Uh, you guys are doing a great job. And so am I. Um, thank you so much! Bye!

biz

I love this.

theresa

I love it too!

biz

You’re doing such a good job, and I know that your child taking the Paw Patrol potty around the house and it never being able to be found, that it’s not filled with pee? But I like to think it is, just to add a level of danger to the entire scenario?

theresa

And spookiness?

biz

And spookiness, ‘cause it’s Halloween. I might sound like a complete idiot, but I had no idea that there were those double toilet seats—

crosstalk

Theresa: Yeah. They’re great. Yeah. Yeah. Biz: —until we moved into the house that we live in—

biz

[Theresa affirms Biz throughout.] And there was one there, and I was like—what is this witchcraft? That’s happening in the bathroom?! Yeah! It’s so great. Good job—and buying two? Bonus points. You get an extra piece of candy in your Trick-or-Treat bag! [Theresa laughs.] Failures!

clip

[Dramatic orchestral music plays in the background.] Theresa: [In a voice akin to the Wicked Witch of the West] Fail. Fail. Fail. FAIL! [Timpani with foot pedal engaged for humorous effect.] Biz: [Calmly] You suck!

biz

Fail me, Theresa!

theresa

Okay. Halloween-related, actually!

biz

Wooo! [Biz affirms Theresa as Theresa speaks.]

theresa

My kids have been pretty relaxed about everything they’ve been watching on Netflix for a while, so I have become relaxed— [Biz laughs; laughter continues and increases as Theresa continues speaking.] —about what they can watch on Netflix! Um, like, nobody’s been—nobody’s been having, like, bedtime nightmares or, y’know, bedtime anxiety really. And so I’m like, we’re great! We love spooky stuff! We’re fun! [Biz laughs.] Like, this is—my family likes to be scared! Sometimes! And that’s fun and it’s okay! [Biz laughs again.] That’s not actually true.

biz

Not a truth?

theresa

No.

biz

Okay.

theresa

So—so there’s this show on Netflix called Bat Pat—which you may have seen?

biz

No. [Laughs.]

theresa

And I actually—because it looks like a spooky show, I actually did check it out on Common Sense Media and read that, y’know, it is spooky and intended to be spooky, but it’s also intended for very young kids and they make it really fun and it’s just really silly? Like, spooky stuff? I was like, this is great! My kids will be totally fine with that. [Deep breath.] So they watched it, and it was one of those, like, things where the first time they watched it everyone was fine? But then like the next time they watched it—I don’t know why—but something rubbed Oscar the wrong way? And the whole rest of that night, he could not even be…like—being in the room with me was not safe. Even in the room with me was not safe. He had to be attached to my body, physically. He followed me around everywhere, and I tried to be really nice about that, but it got so hard to do stuff? And so there were, like, a few points where I was like, I just—I—I—like, I can be in the same room with you but I need my body! Like, I was not—I got really frustrated. ‘Cause it got to be too much. And he was just really scared! Like he just—something spooked him, and then he couldn’t get out of his head, and…that night, he fell asleep—I was sitting in a chair in his room. He fell asleep—‘cause I was with, uh, Curtis. And he fell asleep on my feet. On my feet.

crosstalk

Biz: Curled up on your feet. Wow. Theresa: On the floor. On my feet.

theresa

That’s how he fell asleep and I just moved him to his bed.

biz

Wow.

theresa

Yeah.

biz

Mmm. That’s…harsh.

theresa

I know!

biz

God. I’m sorry. Mine is spooky as well. So Katy Belle has finally gotten into the Nancy Drew books, which—

theresa

Awwwww!

biz

[Theresa affirms Biz throughout.] —brings me great joy! Some of you may know that there is a new show on the CW called Nancy Drew! And Katy Belle had been hearing—she’s, like, all into her radio station now, which is very—makes me very happy. But she’s been hearing the commercials for the Nancy Drew show. She said she’d like to watch it. And I said let me watch the trailer and then I’ll make a decision. Now, I decided she could watch it. There is some, like, kissing. Right? We’ve—we’re two episodes in. And it is…scary. And there’s more than kissing. And during both of those parts, ‘cause she’s like “Ahh! This is really scary!” Like, she closes her eyes? I cover her eyes, and when the, like, super-sexy part comes on, I—I said, Katy Belle, this is the price that you pay in watching the slightly more adult show. I cannot sit here—I know we have talked about all these things, but I’m not ready to sit here with you—

crosstalk

Theresa: And watch it together? Yeah. Biz: And watch it with you.

biz

[Theresa affirms Biz throughout.] So eyes covering! And she’s like, “It’s okay. I can handle the—you covering my eyes for this?” Thank God. But I just am like…not only is she walking out of watching the shows spooked, ‘cause it’s spooky, there is just a lot of bras and grinding. And…outside of those two things, it’s an enjoyable show. But otherwise, I’m like—

crosstalk

Theresa: Not for ten-year-olds? Biz: Ugh. I’m committed!

biz

I’m committed now, though! Yeah! I feel like I can’t stop watching it with her.

crosstalk

Theresa: ‘Cause you started off with, “I will view the trailer and make a decision.” Biz: And I approve it. Right.

biz

Ugh. [Laughs.]

caller

[Answering machine beeps.] I have a fail. So my husband’s car is in the shop. And he took my car to work today. And I have to get my daughter to school. So…we think, okay, it’ll be okay. We’ll just walk or ride a bike because she just learned how to ride her bike a week ago. And figured riding a bike would be faster, right? It wasn’t. [Sighs.] I was mean. Trying to get her to school and she’s still 15 minutes late because she also had a wipeout right in front of the school. And it was a fucking…just…of course that would happen situation. [Sighs deeply.] It’s just been a rough morning. I’ve got a baby in the stroller trying to walk her bike while she limps her way to school, but I guess the little genius part of this is that once I realized we were late, we said fuck it. We’ll walk slowly. It’ll be okay. We’ll get there when we get there. I let her know that none of this was her fault. And I feel like that part kind of redeemed me a little bit. Thanks. You guys are doing a great job.

biz

[Theresa affirms Biz throughout.] Ugh. This is that, like, perfect storm! It’s this whole…like, assumption we’re supposed to be perfect and happy all the time. And that these—I mean, I see it all unfold. I understand all the choices you made. They all backfired on you. I think there’s nothing that makes you feel like a failure more than pushing a stroller and pushing, like—

crosstalk

Theresa: Walking a bike. Yeah. Yeah. Biz: —whatever vehicle your child—you thought would be okay for your kid to ride?

biz

[Theresa affirms Biz throughout.] Scooter, bike—I mean, it’s just—it’s—it’s too much to physically do. And now you have to walk it back. By yourself. With the baby. Yeah! I mean, you don’t feel good about this. There’s nothing about this—[Laughs]—that makes you feel successful. [Theresa laughs lightly.] I am sorry. You are—you’re doing a good job. But! You’re also doing a horrible job.

theresa

And you suck.

biz

Oh, and you suck! Absolutely. [Theresa laughs.]

music

“Mom Song” by Adira Amram. Mellow piano music with lyrics You are the greatest mom I’ve ever known. I love you, I love you. When I have a problem, I call you on the phone. I love you, I love you. [Music fades out.]

theresa

[Jazzy piano music begins, continues through dialogue.] One Bad Mother is supported in part by Mathnasium. With over 1,000 franchise locations worldwide, Mathnasium’s highly-trained, caring instructors teach each child face-to-face with customized learning plans.

biz

Once again, before I had kids, I thought learning is going to be easy! Turns out, kids learn differently. Surprise! Math is definitely one of those areas where kids can really benefit from having one-on-one time with instructors who can really work on customizing learning plans for your child.

theresa

More than half a million parents trust Mathnasium to help their kids get caught up or ahead in math. Now it’s your turn. Go to Mathnasium.com/obm today to learn more about their programs. Or call 855-354-MATH. That’s Mathnasium.com/obm, or call 855-354-MATH. [Music fades out.]

biz

Hi, guys! Quick heads up. If you are on the more squeamish side of Halloween, at the beginning of our conversation with Alison Rosen, we will be talking about an experience she has had with a certain insect that many people find super gross. Including my father. So we just want to give you that heads-up; you can always skip ahead a couple of minutes and get into the rest of the interview. Boo!

biz

Hey, Theresa! Let’s call someone today!

music

[Up-tempo acoustic guitar with choral “ahhs” in background.]

biz

Theresa. This week we are talking to Alison Rosen, who is a writer, TV personality, and interviewer best known for her podcast Alison Rosen is Your New Best Friend. She began her career as a professional journalist and her work has appeared in Rolling Stone, People, Seventeen, Elle, The New York Post, and more. She released a book in 2018 called Tropical Attire Encouraged: And Other Phrases That Scare Me. And is the cohost of the parenting podcast Childish, with Greg Fitzsimmons. Welcome, Alison! [Theresa laughs.]

alison rosen

Thank you so much for having me! I’m excited to be here.

crosstalk

Biz: Well, we are very excited to have you here. Theresa: Yay!

biz

Before we get into questions about all of your podcasting work, tell us: who lives in your house?

alison

I live with my husband, Daniel. Uh, I have two kids. I have two boys, um, Elliot, who is two-and-a-half, and Owen, who just turned eight months yesterday. And then we have a dog, Wendy. And do you guys wanna hear—

biz

Yes!

alison

Like, how—how—how much do you wanna hear a gross story?

crosstalk

Theresa: Yeah. Yeah. We want in. Yeah, we want— Biz: Oh! It’s Halloween. We want gross.

alison

[Biz, and occasionally Theresa, affirm Alison throughout.] It’s Halloween. Okay. This is a very spooky story. Uh, it’s spooky and disgusting. [Biz laughs.] So…um, yesterday—or over the weekend, my husband took a shower in the morning. I had not yet showered, uh, ‘cause I’m gross. And he—so he was sitting at his desk and I come in and he’s like, oh, oh, there’s something I need to tell you. It’s kind of disgusting. So I’m braced. And then—and then it even wowed me. He’s like, when I was in the shower there were, um, there were like, some slugs in there. [Laughs.} [Biz and Theresa laugh.] I’m like, what? Anyway, long story short, there were some maggots— [Biz and Theresa gasp in unison.] —in our shower.

biz

[Shrieking] What?!

alison

I want—I want to—I want to burn my house down and move.

theresa

This is so good.

alison

I never want to shower again.

biz

No!

alison

I’m so horrified. We’ve—we’ve already had—like, we’re—we’re on top of it. I think the problem is gone. I have— [Biz laughs.] —torched so many various things down the drain—

crosstalk

Biz: I was gonna say! [Laughs.] Alison: —to solve this. Theresa: [Through laughter] Yeah.

alison

[Biz and Theresa affirm Alison throughout.] But anyway, long story short, I also live with, like, three to four maggots, apparently. And I wanna die.

biz

So that is very Poltergeist, and…wow.

theresa

And it went from slugs to maggots!

crosstalk

Biz: Yeah, it wasn’t slugs! Wow! Theresa: Like, there’s nothing grosser than maggots! Biz: What’s wrong with your husband? [Theresa laughs.]

biz

It’s not slugs! I mean—if I went into the bathroom expecting to see the—like, to pull the curtain back—

crosstalk

Theresa: And see, like, a banana slug or something. Biz: —and see slugs!

crosstalk

[Theresa agrees with Biz.] Biz: Or even just good old-fashioned slugs. Naked snails. Alison: Right. Like a garden slug.

biz

[Theresa affirms Biz throughout.] And it’s maggots—maggots were the one thing that my father could not handle. I remember as a child [laughs] like he would always hose out the garbage can? But then when maggots had started to appear? He would make me do it. [Laughs.]

theresa

That’s great.

crosstalk

Biz: And I’m—yeah, and I’m— Alison: That’s so funny! Theresa: It’s fair though! Maggots are the grossest thing. Biz: It’s fair. Yeah.

crosstalk

Biz: Maggots are—let’s just fucking talk about maggots the rest of the day. It is Halloween. Theresa: Let’s do it! ‘Cause it’s Halloween! We have to deliver a good Halloween episode of this show.

crosstalk

Biz: I will say— Theresa: Maggots are gonna help us do that. Biz: Yeah. Alison, I gotta tell ya.

biz

The—has—have—the—this ties together with this, I promise. You’ve got a two-year-old and an eight-month-old. Have you had the experience of somebody pooping in the tub?

alison

Yes.

biz

Okay.

alison

Uh—I—yeah. Go—okay. Yes. I have.

biz

Okay. So now I’m gonna follow up with the question of: did it even cross your mind that you were not gonna get back in the tub later? Like, you were gonna get in that tub no problem.

alison

Well, he pooped in a baby tub.

crosstalk

Biz: Ohhhh! Theresa: Mmmm.

alison

Which—in the big tub.

crosstalk

Biz: Ah-ha. Theresa: Yeah.

alison

[Biz affirms Alison throughout. Theresa occasionally does as well.] If he had pooped in the big tub, I don’t know what I would have done. But I remember being ver—so this was Elliot who—where—where had. My—my elder. Owen has not yet done that. Although sometimes I look at his face and I’m like, are you? And then there’s no poop. But I remember being like, I really don’t—like—how—what—what do I possibly do with this? I don’t know how to get rid of it. [Biz laughs.] And then it only—way after the fact did it occur to me, I should’ve just tossed the—like, it was just a baby bathtub. I should’ve just dumped it in the toilet. But that didn’t even occur to me.

biz

Well, so…what’s worse, poop in the tub, or maggots in the tub?

crosstalk

Alison: Oh, maggots. Hands down. Biz: Maggots! Theresa: Maggots. Yeah. Maggots. Biz: Alright.

biz

That—we’ve all agreed. We now all get to be friends. [Biz laughs raucously.]

theresa

Now we can move on.

alison

[Biz and Theresa affirm Alison throughout.] Can I just add one more thing that’s like making it so much worse. [Theresa laughs.] Our tub—our—our shower is…white tile on the—on the bottom. And—and the walls, actually. ‘Cause there was one motoring at the wall. [Biz makes disgusted noise.] And maggots are, like, the same color. So I—before even entering the shower I have to—even though, like, this problem I think is—I think, hopefully is gone? I have to—I just open it and I just kind of unfocus my gaze and I just like stare blankly at it for a while just to wait ‘til I see anything move. It’s truly a nightmare. I think we have to move.

biz

[Alison agrees with Biz throughout.] Yeah. No. Well, it’s a clear omen that your house is haunted. [Theresa laughs quietly.] The next thing that’s going to happen is your husband’s gonna say, “I have something disturbing to tell you, and it’s that I want to kill you.” [Theresa laughs loudly.] “In your sleep, dear.” Um, but I—now I just could talk about maggots all day. ‘Cause like, what’s worse—like, if you see a maggot, do you just hose it out or do you have to—do you squash it? Do you pick it up with a paper towel and run, screaming, from the house? Like…I’m—Yeah.

alison

[Biz and Theresa affirm Alison throughout.] Well, my—my husband used the wad of toilet paper and then I’m like, “Flush it down the toilet! Flush it down the toilet!” Y’know, ‘cause God forbid it, like, reanimates in our trash bin. But then when I took a shower—we thought we had fully de-maggoted. And then I took a shower and while I’m in there washing my hair, I see one in the corner. So it’s a whole nightmare. So anyway at the end, I like, scooped it up, and— [Biz makes disgusted noise.] —on my way to flushing it I turned—I turned the toilet paper over to make sure I had it? And it like jumped— [Biz yells.] —and rolled out of the toilet paper and then hit the ground and then I shrieked like a horror movie. And then disposed of it as well. But yeah, it’s truly, truly a nightmare. It’s—it is kind of weird how upsetting it is, though. Because the truth is, the—it’s half of an inch. It’s not—

crosstalk

Alison: —that fast. So what am I so afraid of? Theresa: It’s sane. Yeah. Biz: Yeah. It’s very small.

alison

But I really am afraid of it.

biz

Well, because it eventually could eat away all of your flesh?

alison

It wants to. [Biz laughs wildly.] That’s the—right? They want to—so then I keep—this is—this is truly a Halloween episode. [Biz laughs.] Um, I keep hearing about—so I’ve been, y’know, doing a lot of googling.

biz

Oh no! No! Do not google maggots in your shower! Oh God. To find out how to get rid of them. And— [Theresa laughs.]

alison

I know. I don’t know if this is true or not, but apparently if someone has maggots in—like, there’s a thing called “medical maggots,” because they eat dead flesh they’ll like help clean a wound. Is that true?

biz

That—a long time ago, they’d, like, leeches and maggots were like used for medicinal purposes. I am sure somewhere somebody’s doing it again just to be… cool.

alison

Once again, ugh.

biz

Yeah, I—uh, but— [Alison makes disgusted noise.] —y’know, you don’t have to do that. Don’t— [Alison laughs.] —don’t feel— [Theresa giggles.] —that you need to save some maggots—

theresa

Yeah. You don’t need to give back to the community in this particular way.

biz

Yes. But I now feel like, we—our topic earlier today was “Truth or Dare,” and I feel like now I should dare you to go on to the most judgmental parenting board you can find and put “I’m wanting to clean a wound—” [Alison laughs.]

crosstalk

Biz: “—of my two-year-old, and I’m—want to use—yeah. Leeches or maggots?” Theresa: Child. Yeah. Leeches or maggots?

biz

“We found some maggots in our shower; do you think they could work?” [Theresa laughs.]

crosstalk

Alison: Oh my god. Biz: And then just leave it and wait for a, y’know.

biz

Yeah. Just wait for that fun to roll in.

alison

[Biz and Theresa affirm Alison throughout.] But y’know what I think would be—not only—it would not only be amusing to read the super-judgmental replies, but then the people that are like, really—

biz

Into it.

alison

[Biz and Theresa affirm Alison throughout.] —supportive no matter what? [Biz and Theresa laugh.] “I think that’s a great holistic idea. Sending hugs. Let me know how it goes.” [Laughter escalates.] Like, “Just want to say I—I have no advice but just want to say I feel for you, momma.” That kind of stuff.

biz

Yeah. Hashtag #maggots.

crosstalk

Theresa: Yeah. Or hashtag #goodenoughwouldcleaning. Biz: Or hashtag—

biz

Good enough—[breaks off, laughing.] [Alison bursts into laughter.]

alison

Right. “Clean is best.”

biz

Right. Hashtag #outofbandaidsandneosporin. [Laughs wildly.] [Alison laughs appreciatively.]

biz

[Theresa and Alison affirm Biz throughout.] Oh. Well this is really good. Let’s don’t talk about anything else other than maggots. Alright! ‘Cause now I just wanna talk about—now, I was asking Theresa at the end of our discussion about “Truth or Dare,” do adults play “Truth or Dare,” but now I feel like “Truth or Dare” would be a really fun game for parents. Actually. To be like I dare—I—I—like, my—besides daring somebody to go on a parenting board—[breaks off, laughing.] And leave a super crazy question, just as a dare. Now I’m only gonna read crazy things on the internet as if parents had been playing “Truth or Dare.” [Alison laughs.] And had dared somebody to put it. Right? And just—I’m just gonna respond with—to those posts with, “That must’ve been a hell of a ‘truth’ question you didn’t wanna answer.” Right? [Alison laughs.] Um…podcasting. [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] You’ve been doing Alison Rosen is Your New Best Friend, which Theresa was on recently—

alison

Yes.

biz

Uh, and then—which is highly successful. I cannot imagine—if you guys haven’t heard—go. This is an—great fun thing.

theresa

It’s a great show.

biz

It’s so much fun.

alison

Aw, thank you.

biz

But now, you have started a new podcast about a year ago called Childish. And—

alison

That’s right!

biz

How did Childish come about? Tell us about it.

alison

[Biz and Theresa affirm Alison throughout.] Well, so—Greg—comedian Greg Fitzsimmons and I have known each other for…years now. And we just have this—this friendship and this kindship. And we really like going on each other’s podcasts. [Biz laughs.] So I think the idea that we wanted to do a podcast together came up some time ago. But we both have these kind of pretty general, like, interview podcasts. Where we—we interview people and we talk about our lives. And so we thought, well maybe we should do something a little more focused than that. And then—so I did IVF with—with both of my kids. I have endometriosis and infertility and—and—all—all the things. And so getting pregnant was this, like, very [through faint laughter] long, long— [Biz laughs.] —uh, involved process that I was open about the whole time it was happening. So I feel like I was, like, in—in the—I was like attempting to get pregnant for so long. Um, and so we were talking about parenting a lot, and then when I got pregnant with Elliot and then when I had my kids, he and I continued to talk about parenting because I have, y’know, I had just one and then these two very young kids and he has—his son just—just left for college, which is—he’s very proud but also, like, very sad? [Laughs.]

alison

That he’s looking at empty nesthood. And then he has a daughter who’s 16. So we—y’know, approach parenting—like, he’s sort of near—nearing the end of it, so to speak, and then I’m at the beginning of it and he gives me lots of advice and—and we—like, talk about sort of the differences in—in how to approach things. Um, so then it just sort of became pretty apparent that, like, “Oh, this is what we should do our podcast about!” That being said, we talk a lot about our families. We talk about our spouses. We talk about relationships and—we also talk about, um, like, depression and anxiety and—and that kind of stuff. And our kids. But we talk a lot about non-kid-related stuff, too. Even—and then we always kind of bring it back to—to family stuff? But we do have a lot of listeners who don’t have kids and then they let us know, they’re like, “I don’t have kids but I still enjoy listening to you guys.” Which I think is—I—I love it. I want everyone to listen.

biz

Yeah, I do feel [breaks off, laughing.] We’ve gotten that comment before too and it feels a little like parenting porn? [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] Y’know, where it’s like—I have zero desire to have them or haven’t had them yet or whatever the situation is; I—y’know, it’s like—I get to peep into this world of, like, y’know…

crosstalk

Biz: What—what is that? Why are you—what is that? Theresa: What is this? [Laughs.]

biz

Why are you—why—what is that?

alison

We have people being like, “I don’t know if I wanna have kids or not. Listening to you guys makes me think I don’t, but—” [Laughs.]

crosstalk

Biz: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! Oh yeah! We get that one too. That one and Theresa: Yeah. Oh, we hear that allll the time. But that’s good! I feel like that’s— Biz: Yeah, that’s good! I want—yeah! Alison: Right. Theresa: I feel like that’s good. We’re doing a public service.

crosstalk

Biz: People need to understand—you, in fact, don’t have to have kids! Theresa: Not everybody has to! Yeah! Yeah. Biz: It’s okay! Alison: Right. Theresa: Yeah.

biz

Many of us have had them and question that often! [All three laugh.] Um…so I wanna ask about the interview stuff and the choice to—it’s not—interviewing people really isn’t part of the Childish podcast experience. You guys did one recently, but are you thinking—are you and Greg thinking of keeping that out and keeping it really y’all’s experience and y’alls stories, you just need a place to, like, vent? [Laughs.] Like, each week.

alison

Well—

biz

Or do you wanna have other voices come in?

alison

Full behind—full behind-the-scenes of what’s really going on with that. Um, yeah. We had—we did one live show with Andy Richter, and it was fantastic, and we have more live shows planned. And our—and our plan is to have a guest for the live shows. I would like to bring guests in for just a—the regular studio shows? Because I feel like we both know a lot of interesting people and…I would like to find out different people’s parenting experiences. In fact, we had—I forget—I may have—this has been so much on my mind. I may have brought it up on the episode with Theresa, which was fantastic. Theresa, you are so good. People love that episode. [Both Biz and Theresa laugh lightly.] Um, but we had—so we take, uh, listener questions via email or via voicemail. And we had a woman call in and she’s in a polyamorous relationship with another wife and a husband and then she and the husband—only one set is legally married but—but they consider themselves both, like, two wives and a husband and they’re all—all three are in a relationship with each other. Two kids, each woman had one kid with the guy, and—and she’s sort of wondering how that’s gonna go when they go to school. And I—I don’t think of myself as super, like…like, traditional. I mean I’m—I—yeah. I don’t think of myself as traditional or prudish but like, if I had been wearing pearls I would’ve been clutching them. Very—like not judgmental at all. Open to it, but just, like, oh my god! How does that work?

alison

And sort of fascinated. And I keep thinking about it. And she—I—it came up on the podcast subsequently. And she called back and was like, if you have questions, y’know, feel free to—to hit me up. So I intend to. But like I feel like it’d be interesting to talk to someone—to her, or to talk to other people. So I—I would eventually like to bring in other voices. I think Greg feels like we—y’know, he—he and I both have these interview podcasts, and when you begin interview—when you add interviews to it it’s just, like, it’s gonna change the fundamental dynamic. He likes it just him and me. I dunno. May—maybe it’s like I’m pushing for a threesome. I dunno. So I dunno what’s gonna happen. He’s like—we can—let’s revisit it. But I think he’s—he’s happy doing it just him and me for the studio shows, guests for the live shows. I feel like, let’s—let’s spice it up with some guests sometimes. So— [Biz laughs.] —it could go either way. [Laughs.]

biz

Let’s get somebody else in the bed with us! [Theresa laughs.]

alison

Yeah.

biz

Um—

alison

But I mean, you guys do—we could do something like what you guys do, which is where—y’know, a—a—a dedicated chunk is always just the two of you and then you have a guest.

biz

[Alison and Theresa affirm Biz throughout.] Yeah, I mean, we had the same thing of just, like, we know what our voices are in the grand scheme of the world. And—they’re pretty limited. [Laughs.] Right? And so, like—we’re—we were like you where it was like, well…I—it might be really great to hear how other people are dealing with all of this, because everybody’s doing it a little different despite what you find in the bookshelves of the bookstore or the library. There are a lot of different ways that kids wind up in your house. [Laughs.] And there’s lots of different ways to—to parent! And, um…so yeah! It—y’know. It’s nice to hear the other voices. Um, but it’s also nice to just have a place to vent, which, actually, is something our—y’know, talk about things, it’s not always venting. But I wanna ask you—something that Theresa and I struggle with—not struggle with, but we keep coming back to the conversation of, y’know, even though our show is really about our experiences as parents, we do have to just naturally talk about our kids. Right? Um…they come up. In a parenting podcast. [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] “Why are you depressed?” “My—no reason!” [Laughs.] [Alison laughs.] “There’s—there’s no inciting reason!”

theresa

“My child didn’t do something really upsetting this morning.” [Biz laughs wildly.]

biz

[Alison and Theresa affirm Biz throughout.] I definitely wasn’t prepared for when my child was going to start doing this thing— [Theresa and Alison both laugh.] —and the baggage it might open for me. But—so we go back and forth and, like, how much do we say, what’s our comfort zone, y’know, how much choice do they get. Definitely changed as the kids have gotten older. Where do you guys fall on that? ‘Cause the kids’ ages are so different and you wonder, like, does the kid going to college give two shits what his dad is saying [through laughter] on the radio?

theresa

Or maybe he cares a lot!

biz

Or maybe he cares a lot! The 16-year-old girl might; your eight-month old does not know what a podcast is. So like—

alison

Right.

biz

Yeah. Where do you fall on all that? [Biz affirms Alison throughout.]

alison

My eight-month-old does not know, but my two-and-a-half-year-old I think does know. And he’ll even—sometimes if he’s, like, holding my phone, looking at pictures or whatever, or like, if he does the video, he’ll go, “Hi, everybody!” [Biz and Theresa laugh.] And he definitely learned that from me. Um, it’s—it’s kind of an ever-evolving thing, and I just…hope and pray that I’m doing it right. Y’know? I know a lot of people who refuse to put their kids on social media, and I do have pictures of my kids on my social media. And I wonder am—am—is this wrong? I—I try never to put a picture of them that I think would embarrass them someday, um. But other than that, I do feel like they’re part of my life and I—I—I like to share my life, and I hope—I hope that that’s not bad. Um, in terms of stories I tell about them…[sighs.] Again, I think if a certain—if I feel that a certain story—it’s kind of situation by situation. I don’t have any hard—hard and fast rules. Um, if anything, I think…the stories that I tell about my husband and my marriage, that’s where— [Biz laughs.] —it’s more of a, like, am I violating something by being—‘cause that’s sort of where the venting comes in sometimes?

alison

[Biz affirms Alison throughout.] I don’t—I wouldn’t say—I’m not yet venting about my kids. I mean, we do a segment called “Highs and Lows,” which is pretty straightforward. We talk about our high of the week and our low of the week, and sometimes the lows are just, like, Elliot is having these tantrums and I’m helping him through them, but what I noticed recently is…he—he’s actually not—not—this has not been happening this past week, but the week before it was like, every morning this crazy meltdown. And I read that, uh, part of that book that I—that helped me, which is, like, How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk and so I was really following that, and it was helping him through the tantrums. So then he’d be fine for the rest of the day, but I would be…really depressed and, like, sad, and haunted. And I didn’t really know why. So that was my low so I talked about that. But, um…yeah. I don’t yet think there’s anything—I mean, they’re so young I don’t yet think there’s anything that could really like—that they would be upset that I shared. But I am really…open about—about marital stuff. And so I worry that—and—and—both—both Greg and I are pretty open, and neither of our spouses listen. Or so we thought. [Biz laughs raucously.]

alison

Um…but there was—so Childish has an Instagram account, and it’s—it’s—uh, @childishpod. And so they—that Instagram account posted, y’know, a photo and—and the show summary. And Daniel, my husband, just left, like, a—an emoji of a like…smirk? [Biz laughs.] And I’m like, oh fuck. [Laughs.] Oh, excuse me. You don’t—you don’t use bad words, do you?

biz

Yes we do.

theresa

Yeah we do. [Biz laughs.]

alison

[Theresa and Biz affirm Alison throughout.] Oh, you do. Okay. And I was like, oh no. Anyway. Yes. So he did listen to one and he was—he wasn’t thrilled. [Sighs.] [Biz laughs wildly. Alison joins in.] He’s just—he—his thing is—his thing—and this has kind of been since the—the beginning of him and me being together. He doesn’t want to listen to a podcast and discover that I felt a certain way about something that way. He wants me to come to him first and tell him. And in general I do? But I feel like…having kids has, like…has been like the—the grease to the—the—to the—the simmering oil fire of our relationship? [Laughs.] [Biz and Theresa laugh.] Like, sometimes it just—it’s everything’s just chaotic and I don’t really—y’know, that day, something had happened that morning in—and—and as I was driving over to Greg’s studio, I just realized I was really kind of upset about something so then we start podcasting and then it like all spills out and then I, y’know, I talk to Greg and then I feel better and I don’t feel like it’s necessary to really meant—talk—to Daniel about it— [Biz and Theresa laugh.] —because it was just a thing! And I’m done with it. And he listened and then he’s like, hey—y’know, and—and—and I said to him, like, “I didn’t wanna bum you—like, it was just a small thing, I didn’t want to bum you out.” And he—and he, to his credit, y’know, I—I—I’m so lucky. He’s like, it doesn’t matter if it’s right or wrong; if you feel it, you should tell me so we can talk about it. And then it’s like this reminder of, oh yeah, that’s—that’s really when it works best is if we’re just being open with each other.

biz

Yeah, or you could just send him the link to the episode. [Alison and Theresa burst out laughing.]

crosstalk

Alison: Put the time code. Biz: And just be like—he gets—you get it first, yeah, just so you know, this is going live in like—ten minutes! Theresa: He gets it first? He gets like, an advance listen? Ten minutes?

biz

Uh— [Alison and Theresa both laugh.] Uh, I know you wanted me to tell you—

theresa

Do you wanna talk? [Laughs.]

biz

Yeah, can we talk real fast? Yeah.

alison

Right.

biz

Right now!

theresa

Well that’s the other thing is that I feel like, if, like a lot of times if you then talk it out in advance—

crosstalk

Theresa: —of going on the show, it’s not that fun to talk about! Biz: It’s not fun to talk about! [Laughs.]

theresa

[Alison and Biz agree with Theresa.] Like, sometimes when I get to a really good place about something, I come to this show and I’m like, well I don’t really know what I wanna say because…like, I feel pretty good. [Biz laughs.] And if there’s something that I want to, like, get riled up about, I don’t really feel like getting riled up! Like, I don’t really want to do that! So.

biz

Yeah. Well then I’m here.

crosstalk

Theresa: Yeah. Then you’re here. You—you cover that. Yeah. Biz: But I just live in a constant state of rile.

biz

But also— [Alison laughs.] —it—but it’s important to, y’know, have those days. And to, like, recognize the days where things that actually go well, I think that’s important too. I—let me wrap up on one last question. And that is: I know, like…doing the show, uh, we’ve been doing ours for, like, six years, and I can definitely say there’s real benefit—[laughs]—to me coming in here every week and talking stuff out. And…it definitely, yeah. In like a weird cliché way, I am actually parenting better because of it? Have you found, like, what have you gotten out of doing the show so far? Is it—have you, like, come away with anything? Has somebody written in and made you go, “Ohhh! I didn’t think about that!” Or like, I don’t know. Or you just, like…I—my marriage is falling apart— [Theresa and Alison laugh.] Like, what have you gotten out of doing the show so far?

alison

Gosh. That’s such a good question. I feel like I’ve gotten a lot out of it. I mean, one very, very specific thing, which kind of ties into what we were saying is—there are things that I will talk about with Greg on the show. And he’ll say “I think you need to talk to Daniel about that.” [Theresa laughs.] Like, “You need to share that with him.” And then I—I’ll be like you’re—I’ll—I’ll be like, you’re right. And I will go talk to Daniel and it will make Daniel and me closer and I will feel better and I’ll be glad. I don’t—my default, I think, as a person—way before I met Daniel—was to be afraid to really communicate openly. And that’s sort of been a project in therapy for as long as I’ve been in therapy— [Biz laughs quietly.] —is—is to trust my feelings and to trust sharing. But—and I feel like I’ve gotten a lot better at it. But I think…there are still times where I—I feel like I wanna think something through before I decide to open my mouth about it, and so Greg will just nudge me in the direction of, like, just talk to him! And then I do, and it’s so much better. So I’ve gotten that.

alison

And then…y’know, we have such a great—like you guys, we have such a great listenership, and they’re, y’know, they weigh in on a lot of things in their own lives and in our lives. So it’s just nice to hear other points of view, uh, just about—but y’know, like, these—something like screen time. Which we are—we’re kind of—we have an ever-evolving discussion about it—how much screen time is okay? Is screen time bad? At the beginning I was very much in defense of screen time? But it’s gotten to a point where I try not to give Elliot my phone because he just—it’s sort of—compulsive and addictive when he’s—when he has the phone? So I feel like, let’s just avoid it all for now? And listeners weigh in on that one a lot.

biz

A lotta times with parenting, at least with my husband and I—find out is that…y’know, it’s not…[sighs.] I dunno if it was ever like this. But it’s not—a lot of times decisions are being made in the moment? And while—right before kids, maybe we had a discussion about how we were gonna do stuff? Like…hahaha! What a laughable thing. We probably thought was the important thing. [Laughs.] To like, agree on? [Alison laughs.] But now you’re like—oh! Sorry. Yeah. I totally said she could—y’know, she could stay up and have, like, 18 desserts. Y’know? [Laughs.] Right. [Alison laughs.] And he’ll be like, just coming in from something and hasn’t been there all day to know, like, the whole history of what’s been happening and he’ll be like, “What?!” And then I’m like, “Not in front of the children.” And like—[breaks off, laughing.] ‘Cause my parents were always like, “Number one rule: never let them see you not be on the same team.” Ever. And I remember that. That was great. Yeah. It’s—yeah, it’s interesting. I agree. Talking in here every week sometimes does make my relationship better as well. So does therapy! And medication. [Alison laughs.] Um… [Biz and Theresa laugh.] Alison, thank you so much for joining us. Everybody should go check out Childish, and…if you aren’t already listening to Alison Rosen is Your New Best Friend, definitely do that. We will link everyone up to it. Thank you so much! Uh, for joining us!

alison

Thank you for having me! This was really fun.

biz

Oh yeah! It was! It was absolutely a delight. Thank you so much. We’ll talk again soon.

alison

Thank you. Bye.

biz

Biz and Theresa: Bye!

music

“Telephone,” by “Awesome.” Down-tempo guitar and falsetto singing. Brainwaves send a message: Pick up the phone (When you, I call) Arm is moving now, no longer stone (When you, I call) Hand reaches out with a will of its own (When you, I call) [Music fades out.]

promo

Music: Twangy country music. Tusk Henderson: Hello, my name is Tusk Henderson, and I am an outdoorsman. Narrator: Are you looking for a new comedy podcast? This month's episode of Beef And Dairy Network Podcast has, as its guest, the wonderful Nick Offerman playing the part of Tusk Henderson, adventurer and outdoorsman. Tusk: Think about fitting yourself, a month's worth of provisions, and a half-ton cow into a kayak. Narrator: So if you've never listened to the show before, this might be a good place to start. Tusk: I string a bowstring between her horn tips and I can fire a spear off the top of her head. And, uh, took in some very delicious cod. Narrator: So! If you're after a new comedy podcast, why not try The Beef And Dairy Network from Maximum Fun? Download it now! [Music ends.] Tusk: You flip a cow upside-down, they make an excellent toboggan.

promo

[Wolf howls. Dramatic piano and organ music. Throughout, the wolf howls again, and a crow caws.] April Wolfe: Hello there, ghouls and gals. It is I, April Wolfe. I'm here to take you through the twisty, scary, heart-pounding world of genre cinema on the exhilarating program known as Switchblade Sisters. [Sinister echo on the title.] The concept is simple: I invite a female filmmaker on each week, and we discuss their favorite genre film. Listen in closely to hear past guests, like The Babadook director Jennifer Kent, Winter's Bone director Debra Granik, and so many others every Thursday on MaximumFun.org. Tune in! If you dare... [Thunder booms, something growls over April as she cackles evilly, and then all sound abruptly cuts.] April: [Rapidly] It's actually a very thought-provoking show that deeply explores the craft and philosophy behind the filmmaking process while also examining film through the lens of the female gaze. So, like, you should listen. [Same sinister echo effect] Switchblade Sisters!

biz

[Singing] Alison Rosen is Your New Best Friend is the name of her podcast, and so is Childish! [Laughs.]

theresa

I think that’s her theme song!

biz

It is.

theresa

Yeah!

crosstalk

Theresa: Coincidentally. Biz: I’m not quite sure—

biz

—why people have not been knocking down my door?

theresa

I know!

biz

For theme songs.

theresa

For jingles.

biz

Jingles?

theresa

Yeah.

biz

Some jangles.

theresa

Yeah.

crosstalk

Biz: Some theme songs Theresa: Some Bojangles.

biz

[Theresa affirms Biz throughout.] Some—oh, I can—[singing] Mister Bojangles! Dance! 1970s song! [Regular voice] I know it. [Singing] There was a man, he used—anyway. [Biz cracks up as Theresa laughs.] [Regular voice] That was really fun. And I’m so glad it tied in to our scary Halloween show with all the maggot talk. You guys are welcome. I am also ready to turn off the lights, hold up the flashlight under my chin, and listen to a mom have a breakdown.

caller

[Answering machine beeps.] Hi, Biz and Theresa. This isn’t even a rant. This is just a straight-up breakdown and I’m not doing a great job right now. Everyone out there is doing a great job. I am not. [Through tears.] I just feel like I am drowning. [Sobs.] I have a really good partner. And he is so swamped at work right now with stuff he can’t even talk to me about. And he’s just working crazy hours and is stressed all the time, which is not like him. I feel like I don’t have the support system I normally do. [Sobs.] And my three kids are amazing but my oldest one has autism. And he’s been having a lot of moments right now. And he still—he needs a counselor. I don’t know what counselors are covered by insurance for us, so that’s a little thing. And I’m trying to get my husband to look it up but he’s got so much going on at work. And then…my youngest is a toddler and cutting molars so that’s just a joy. And…my one living grandparent I just found out has congestive heart failure. And someone from back home who is basically a bonus grandfather to me just went into hospice. And I can’t go anywhere and see anybody right now because I’ve got to manage all these children and myself up in the house when my husband is overwhelmed in his job, and I just feel like a lot of things are falling apart.

caller

And I’m just not in a good place for it right now. So I’ve been yelling so much at the kids and I don’t want them to remember me being a yeller like my mom was a yeller. I mean, I’m apologizing a lot, too, but does that actually fix any of the damage I’m doing by yelling at them to the point where my oldest is crying and my little one is yelling at me because I’m hurting his feelings? I mean, and at least my little one can identify feelings, right? That’s—that’s something. But anyway. I just can’t really unload all of this on anyone else right now, so you guys can hear it. You guys are doing an amazing job just for giving us this phone number. Thank you so much for just letting me get this out. I just can’t—I just can’t do it by myself right now so I just need someone out there to know. I’m trying really hard. I’m trying and I’ll—I’ll do a good job again soon. Alright. I love you guys a lot. You are wonderful. Bye.

biz

You are doing…a really good job.

theresa

I’m trying to understand why she thinks she’s not doing a good job. Like—

crosstalk

Theresa: —at the beginning. Like—okay. Biz: I under—but I understand. Like, it’s that—

biz

I understand. She’s talking about that sensation of drowning. Which…I 100% understand. It’s too much. There’s too much going on.

crosstalk

Theresa: Right, so of course you feel you’re failing. ‘Cause you can’t do all of it. Yeah. Biz: You—so you feel that you’re failing. But I—

biz

[Theresa affirms Biz throughout.] I can remember also, like…around that time before, y’know, I really…hit my total point and, y’know, pursued medication and—and that kind of stuff. Where I would just, like—the rage and the, like…sadness that was being so triggered by the overwhelming issues of, y’know, one child going through the tantrums and just where they were developmentally. Y’know? Just—where our kids wind up developmentally? That we can’t control at all and that they can’t control either? Like, the tantrums and the yelling and the—if you’ve got a kid on the spectrum like you were talking about, like, you know they’re struggling with stuff and you’re carrying all that emotional weight! Like a sponge! We’re sponges, whether we set up boundaries or not, you can’t stand next to somebody who’s, like…having an emotional struggle and it not impact you. I just—it’s like secondhand smoke. It’s blowing all over you! And…your, y’know, your partner is in the middle of something in which they can’t be the support that they are usually able to be, and, y’know, it’s so much. And then…quite naturally, I can remember—again, I will just never forget it—just sitting in front of my washing machine. I just got through sorting laundry and closed it. It was just like, all this noise around me! And feeling like…I was doing a bad job because I hated everything that was happening. Right?

biz

[Theresa affirms Biz throughout.] Like, I mean…you don’t say it, you don’t say you hate it, you just say you’re drowning. But like…somewhere in there, maybe a feeling of like, I’m not having fun! And…I don’t like this! And I’m yelling at my kids all—but I don’t even want them to touch me! I am so full! You are full. Right now. So…it is really normal to feel like it’s…you’re not doing a good job. Like, I think it’s really hard to separate for, like…feeling full? And feeling like you’re failing. You’re doing—you actually are doing a good job. And I think it is important to unload it even if it’s just our hotline every five minutes. That’s okay. It’s a lot that you’re going through. And drowning, I think, is a remarkably good description of how I am sure you are feeling. And…you’re doing a really good job? And—

theresa

You are.

biz

We see you.

theresa

Yeah, we do.

biz

We see you. It’s—a lot. It’s too—in fact—in fact, it is fucking too much.

theresa

Yep.

biz

You are doing a good job. Theresa. What did we learn today? “Truth or Dare” helps us get our thrills out, uh, as kids. Until we find more thrilling things to do. Like “Spin the Bottle!” And drinking. [Laughs.] [Theresa laughs.] We also learned that Alison Rosen is our new best friend, and she is a total delight and I could have quite honestly talked to her about maggots for an hour. And that—

theresa

Thank you for not doing that.

biz

You’re welcome? But I am really happy with that first half of that interview.

theresa

Yeah.

biz

[Laughs.] And—we learned that it’s Halloween. It’s here. It’s time to take half your kids’ candy and eat it. That’s my idea of a good time. I’m only getting the good stuff. Twixes and Sour Patch Kids, that’s all I want this year. And I think what we’ve really learned? Is that…this is exhausting— [Theresa laughs.] —thankless work. And…everybody’s walking around out there with a lot. Um, that no one sees. And…y’know, just ‘cause it’s the day where your kid’s being great and you’re out and everybody’s just, like, “You have the best kid!” [Laughs.] That can make us feel like we’re losing our minds. Right? Somehow it doesn’t hit like a compliment. And there are other days where you’re football carrying your kid, screaming, out of an event with groceries and possibly a stroller. It’s a lot. And you’re trying to get to work! And you’re late. Or your partner is traveling. Or…you’re doing this all by yourself. I don’t know. It’s fucking Monday, guys! It’s exhausting! And everybody is on the verge of tears, or maybe it’s just me.

theresa

Happy Halloween! [Laughs.] [Biz bursts into laughter.]

biz

Let’s go out and scare the shit out of some kids! [Laughs.] Theresa?

theresa

Yes.

biz

You’re doing a good job.

theresa

[Through laughter] Thanks, Biz. [Laughs.] [Biz laughs.] So are you.

biz

[Sighs.] We will talk to you guys next week.

biz

Biz and Theresa: Byeee!

music

“Mama Blues” by Cornbread Ted and the Butterbeans. Strumming acoustic guitar with harmonica and lyrics. I got the lowdown momma blues Got the the lowdown momma blues. Gots the lowdown momma blues The lowdown momma blues. Gots the lowdown momma blues Got the lowdown momma blues You know that’s right [Music fades somewhat, plays in background of dialogue.]

biz

We’d like to thank Max Fun; our producer, Hannah Smith; our husbands, Stefan Lawrence and Jesse Thorn; our perfect children, who provide us with inspiration to say all these horrible things; and of course, you, our listeners. To find out more about the songs you heard on today’s podcast and more about the show, please go to MaximumFun.org/onebadmother. For information about live shows, our book and press, please check out OneBadMotherPodcast.com.

theresa

One Bad Mother is a member of the Maximum Fun family of podcasts. To support the show go to MaximumFun.org/donate. [Music continues for a while before fading out.]

speaker 1

MaximumFun.org.

speaker 2

Comedy and culture.

speaker 3

Artist owned—

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—Audience supported.

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