TRANSCRIPT The Evidential Medium (Part One)

Transcript

music
									
“Oh No, Ross and Carrie! Theme Song” by Brian Keith Dalton. A jaunty, upbeat instrumental.
ross blocher
									
Hello and welcome to Oh No, Ross and Carrie!, the show where we don’t just report on fringe science, spirituality, claims of the paranormal—that would be ridiculous—no, we take part ourselves.
carrie poppy
									
Yup. When they make the claims, we show up so you don’t have to. I’m Carrie Poppy.
ross
									
And I’m Ross Blocher.
carrie
									
Oh, hey!
ross
									
Carrie, how common a name is that?
carrie
									
[Laughs.] Well, that’s a good question. You know what, I was just looking at a list that social security compiled of the most popular American names of the last hundred years.
ross
									
Okay.
carrie
									
So it’s—it’s actually funny that you’d mention that, but I didn’t think to look up my own name. I will right now. Carrie. Not there. See if Ross is there. Nope.
ross
									
Okay, I’m looking at a list of female names from the U.S. Census Bureau. Carrie’s 129.
carrie
									
Oh, okay. That’s interesting.
ross
									
Yeah, I would imagine it’s more common.
carrie
									
Yeah, me too. Y’all are probably wondering why the hell we’re talking about this.
crosstalk
									
Ross: Oh, Ross shows up 282 for male names. In the U.S.! Carrie: Whoo! Yeah, right. Ross: So, hey. We don’t have the most common names. Carrie: You think there’s a lot of Ross’s in another country? Ross: Yeah, probably, in, I would imagine, Scotland.
carrie
									
Oh, is that what it is?
ross
									
Well, at least it’s a common—
carrie
									
[Scottish accent] Ross.
ross
									
—last name there—
carrie
									
Ah, okay.
ross
									
—which is where my first name comes from, because it was my great grandmother’s maiden name.
carrie
									
Was her first name Albat?
ross
									
Nope.
carrie
									
Hm.
ross
									
Albat...ross (albatross). Oh, okay. Alright. [Laughs.]
carrie
									
[Laughs.] I hope you leave that whole pause in.
ross
									
Yeah, that took awhile. It did.
carrie
									
[Laughs.]
ross
									
Yeah, why are we talking about this?
carrie
									
We’re talking about this because we went to see a medium the other night.
ross
									
Yeah, and it’s always fun to talk about names, but—
carrie
									
[Laughs.]
ross
									
[Laughs.] This wasn’t any old medium, this was an—
ross & carrie
									
[Together] evidential medium.
ross
									
And we like evidence.
carrie
									
We do, and we both wear a medium. I wear a ladies’ medium.
ross
									
I wear a men’s medium.
carrie
									
It’s perfect.
ross
									
True.
carrie
									
We should tell her we’re mediums also.
ross
									
[Laughs.]
carrie
									
Write her an email. [Laughs.]
ross
									
We did make that joke during this performance.
carrie
									
She said that everyone there is a medium.
ross
									
Yeah, I’m a medium.
carrie
									
Yeah, I’m a medium. [Laughs.] So stupid. It’s just—
ross
									
It’s the little things.
carrie
									
It’s a joke that only you and I will laugh at.
ross
									
The little things. So—
carrie
									
It really is. Or, it’s the medium things.
ross
									
So you found out about Cindy Kaza—
carrie
									
Yes!
ross
									
—performing, and this was kind of the interesting thing, not only was she evidential, but she performs at comedy clubs.
carrie
									
I saw her listed as a comedian somewhere, but I couldn’t find any videos of her doing stand-up or anything like that; but I wonder if maybe that was kind of her scene already when she discovered her profound skills.
ross
									
Yeah, which came first, the psychic or the comedian?
carrie
									
The median, or the comedium.
ross
									
Okay. Yeah.
carrie
									
Yeah, she could call herself a “comedium”, if she’s not trying to lay it on thick with the comedy.
ross
									
So you bought tickets on Goldstar.
carrie
									
Oh, and I should say, this was recommended to us by friend of the show, Drew Spears.
ross
									
Excellent. Yeah, Goldstar.com. You can use the promo code OhNo and it won’t do anything for you.
carrie
									
[Laughs.] But you absolutely can.
ross
									
You can. You can try.
carrie
									
[Laughs.] Anyway.
ross
									
It was originally twenty-five dollars per ticket.
carrie
									
Right, but we got it down to sixteen, I think.
ross
									
Hey-hey.
carrie
									
Why not?
ross
									
Alright, we know how to discount our investigations.
carrie
									
We know how to save nine dollars, but then have to drive an hour and a half out of town, and have to pay for two items.
ross
									
It was off in Oxnard; and for those of you who don’t know Southern California geography, at rush hour on a Tuesday, that is a long ways to go.
carrie
									
It is. Although, I went up early so I could try out this vegan restaurant that had vegan fish stuff. Like fake fish sandwiches, fake fish and chips, stuff like that. Guess what? Bad! Don’t bother.
ross
									
First disappointment of the night.
carrie
									
Although, I think I probably don’t like real fish, either, so maybe I’m a poor yardstick.
ross
									
Okay. Yeah, I was driving towards that restaurant, then you texted me and said, “Nah, just don’t.”
carrie
									
[Laughs.] Yeah. Don’t come here.
ross
									
Not worth it. And, at this comedy club, the Levity Live, in Oxnard, California, there was a two item minimum.
carrie
									
Typical for a comedy club, but we’re here to see a psychic medium! Come on.
ross
									
Two item minimum for a medium.
carrie
									
Mm-hm.
ross
									
Interesting. So I thought, okay, well, I’ll just eat there.
carrie
									
Yeah, that works out.
ross
									
And the show started at...
carrie
									
It started at 8 P.M. Doors at 7. And, so, what is an evidential—evidenciary—evidentist medium, Ross?
ross
									
Well, I think maybe we’ve discovered the connection, at least for that terminology. When you sent me the link to this performance, you also sent me a link to a YouTube video where she was talking in a car to a radio host, and she talked to a good game about wanting to be honest as a psychic. They were talking about hot readings and looking people up in advance, and she even mentioned there had been a group of skeptics who had gone around and created fake profiles online to sort of bait these mediums, and they’d fallen for the bait. And I happen to know who she is referring to. We both do.
ross & carrie
									
[Together] Susan Gerbic.
ross
									
With friends like Kenny Biddle and some others. They’ve strategically done this. They’ve had these fun little operations where they set up a sting of sorts, but go to a lot of trouble to create an online persona that has all of the sharing of just normal memes and graphics and status updates, living in these profiles for a year or something, to create a real, lived-in person, and then maybe comment on the Facebook group for that performance and say something like—
carrie
									
“I can’t wait to go. Maybe Uncle Joe will come through.”
ross
									
Exactly. Yeah. “Really hoping I can talk to grandma tonight.” Then if you follow the link to their pages, you’ll get more little pieces of the breadcrumb trail, and they were able to catch a few psychics in the act.
carrie
									
Did they say anything in the moment? Did they say, “Oh, you looked at my Twitter.”
ross
									
Not in the moment. No, but they got evidence, they got that recorded and then could later on do the direct comparison, oh, here’s where that information came from.
carrie
									
Yeah, that’s very smart.
ross
									
Yeah, so well done, Susan.
carrie
									
So, hot readings are the process by which a fake psychic goes and just… does basic research about you, so that then she can wow you with facts about you she couldn’t possibly have known, because you forgot you put them on Facebook.
ross
									
And this used to require some old-fashioned detective work, actually. Kind of looking people up, using the phone book, whatever other methods, or often times you’d have psychics using a very similar method, would have people in the lobby beforehand fill out a card, “who are you hoping to talk to tonight?”, then that would all get fed back in to the psychic.
carrie
									
Hide microphones so you can hear people talking to their friends.
ross
									
Right, yeah. Other ways—
carrie
									
All sorts of methods.
ross
									
—to get this information that’s verified and meaty. That’s exactly what a psychic wants. As opposed to cold reading, which is where you just go in and all you’ve got is your interaction with that person, with the sitter, and their posture, their clothing, the things that they say, and maybe some techniques that make it sound like you know more about them than you really do. So, usually it’s some mixture between the cold and the hot reading. So, Susan and the Guerilla Skeptics have done a great job of exposing psychics who use that, and Cindy in this video, she was saying, “Ugh, first of all, okay fine. Those mediums should have been exposed for that. But also those skeptics, I mean look at them. They were just going in looking for things—”
carrie
									
“Who’s got the time? I’m gonna go talk to ghosts.”
ross 
									
Right, so it was interesting, she was kind of wagging her finger on both sides of that aisle, saying, “You know, I focus on really establishing that connection.”
carrie
									
“There are good people on both sides.”
ross
									
[Laughs.]
carrie
									
[Laughs.] It’s not quite the same.
ross
									
So, I thought, well okay, alright, she takes her craft seriously. I watched some other YouTube videos with her, and in one she mentioned that she studied at the Arthur Findlay College in jolly England.
carrie
									
Yes, London.
ross
									
So we looked this up, and they offer a number of courses, and they seem to have quite a focus on trance mediumship, but also evidential mediumship.
carrie
									
Okay.
ross
									
She seemed to find a lot of credibility from having been to that school where these matters are taken very seriously, so I’m guessing she’s taken that coursework and said, “Oh, I’m an evidential medium.”
carrie
									
So, an evidential medium is someone who convinces you that they have this power by telling you things they couldn’t possibly have gotten through hot and cold reading techniques. It is proof, it is better than your average psychic. Maybe she walks into the room and she says, “Oh, I see a flower, is it a poppy? Okay, yeah, over here there’s a poppy.”
ross
									
Woah, that’s your last name. What?
carrie
									
Right, and she—I’m trying to think of something no one could know about me that I’m willing to say on air, but now I can’t think of anything. She—
ross
									
That you haven’t already in 214 episodes.
carrie
									
[Laughs.] Right. “And she has an expired carton of orange juice in her fridge!”
ross
									
Whoa!
carrie
									
And I’d be like, “That’s true.”
ross
									
That would be impressive.
carrie
									
Yeah, for sure.
ross
									
But, strange that the spirit world would communicate that.
carrie
									
[Laughs.]
ross
									
And I think this is—
carrie
									
[Chuckling] Touché.
ross
									
—an important thing to keep in mind when consorting with a psychic is, why would the other side be conveying this information? And I think we’ll maybe experience some of that. But yeah, when I first heard of the Arthur Findlay school, I was thinking it sounds fake on two levels, because it sounds kind of like Art Vandelay—
carrie
									
Oh, okay, like the Seinfeld made-up name.
ross
									
—George Costanza’s go-to for Vandelay Industries and whatnot, and then also reminded me of Chuck Findlay, the fake name on the show Burn Notice. I don’t know if anyone’s seen that. Now we’ll get messages from people who like Burn Notice. Alright, so we showed up, and you’d gotten there first, so I met up with you in the back of the room. It could’ve gone farther back, but still, she had a good crowd.
carrie
									
Yeah, I think she pretty much sold out.
ross
									
Pretty close to two hundred people, a hundred fifty to two hundred, and in other interviews she had said that’s usually the size of the crowd she’s dealing with. So yeah, good turnout, and especially as a medium you want that. You want like a large group, where you can pan left and right and kind of move around the room and let people make connections.
carrie
									
So, before you arrived, I talked to the women who would be sitting next to you.
ross
									
Mm-hm. I was on the left.
carrie
									
You were on my left, yes.
ross
									
We were on the back right-hand side, at kind of a bar, so we were on stools.
carrie
									
We were house right, stage left.
ross
									
Whereas the people in front of us were generally at tables together. And it’s like any other comedy club you’ve been to, you’re ordering food, people are coming around in the dark taking orders.
carrie
									
You’re pretty squished in.
ross
									
Yes.
carrie
									
So the women who would be sitting next to you, they looked over and saw that I was reading, and so one of them said, “Oh, what are you reading?” and I showed her the book, and she said “Well, we’re just happy to see young people reading, because we’re both writers—”
ross
									
[sounding pleased]  Ah.
carrie
									
“—and we both have books too.” They showed me that they were carried book, and I said, “What do you write?” One of them was a mystery writer—
ross
									
Like she wouldn’t tell you what she writes?
carrie
									
[Laughs.]
ross
									
It’s just going to be a mystery.
crosstalk
									
Carrie: No, that’s not what I mean. That is not what I mean. I’m surprised you didn’t understand what I meant, she writes mystery novels! Ross: What do you write? It’s a mystery, I can’t tell you. What kind of novels? Mystery.
carrie
									
[Laughs.] It’s like in the Brady Bunch movie. “Oh, what are you a model for?” “Guess.” “Um, OshKosh B’Gosh?”
ross
									
[Laughs.]
carrie
									
Anyway, okay. So, then the other woman was a graphologist, a handwriting expert. I got her card.
ross
									
Oh! Oh, good, I was going to say you should’ve gotten her information.
carrie
									
I did.
ross
									
Was it the one woman who was right next to me?
carrie
									
No.
ross
									
Aw, because I really like her.
carrie
									
She’s cool.
ross
									
We established a connection. I saw the book that she had, and it was about the afterlife and pets. So I was pointing that to you, “oh look, Carrie,” and you were like, “yeah, I know.”
carrie
									
[Laughs.] Believe you me, I can sniff out any book about animals.
ross
									
That’s funny, because I walked in after this with a book of my own. I’m reading Sam Kean’s The Bastard Brigade and I am so excited about it.
carrie
									
What’s it about?
ross
									
It’s about a motley crew that included JFK’s older brother and a baseball catcher and, uh, various other military professionals who were tasked with stopping Hitler’s effort to get the atomic bomb.
carrie
									
Woah. Okay.
ross
									
Yeah. And, uh, Sam Kean has a background in physics. Anyways, he’s one of my favorite authors and I’m super excited to read this one. How about you?
carrie
									
I had Trick Mirror with me, which is a very popular book of personal essays right now. Alright, so! What about this psychic?
ross
									
Yeah, Cindy Kaza. So she did eventually come up. They’d been playing a lot of exciting high-tempo that you would normally play for crowd warm-up for a comedy act. She came out, she’s thin, brunette, very pale skin. And she has her kinda hair up in a bun, but one large lock of hair just sort of swept over her face, covering most of one eye.
carrie
									
That sounds right.
ross
									
She was wearing a black—you called it a...
carrie
									
Jumpsuit.
ross
									
Okay. Like, the top part looks like a little black dress, but then the bottom part are long-flowing pants.
carrie
									
Pants. Yeah.
ross
									
And then on top of that—
carrie
									
And a silk wrap.
ross
									
Yeah, like a pretty kinda floral wrap.
carrie
									
Very elegant.
ross
									
Yeah, that was elegant.
carrie
									
She’s a very pretty lady.
ross
									
Well done, Cindy Kaza.
carrie
									
So, when she got up there, she said, “Wow, lots of people here, I’m super pumped.”
ross
									
Yeah, yeah, and she asked if people had seen her before. A lot of them had. She asked if a lot of people had done this before—meaning, like, seen a psychic—and a lot of us raised our hands. That’s what we do.
carrie
									
Then she said, “You might think this is weird to do it at a comedy theater, but I don’t think so. I think laughter is the best medicine, am I right?” And we all clapped. Yes. okay.
ross
									
Eh, that’s fine, I’ll buy that premise.
carrie
									
Yeah, sure. I mean—
ross
									
You just have to ride a line in how you handle these interactions with loved, dearly departed ones, who maybe did not die well.
carrie
									
Yeah, that’s true.
ross
									
Alright, comedy club lady, have at it.
carrie
									
[Laughs.] So, she told us that she had her first extra-sensory experience, if you will, at age ten.
ross
									
Oh, yeah.
carrie
									
A friend, another child, had died, and came to visit Cindy in her bed one night.
ross
									
Yeah, and she had told this story on a few of the interviews, too, so this is just her origin story, and every time she mentions The Sixth Sense, because yeah, it was like The Sixth Sense. You know, you see the apparition, there they are, standing at the foot of your bed, and it freaked her out at the time, and she wanted it to go away, as they so often do, but now it’s far subtler than that.
carrie
									
Right, on one of the interviews she said, “she was as real as you are to me.” Like—
ross
									
Not a semi-transparent person.
carrie
									
Right. But now it’s more, she’ll get kind of the hint of someone, the feeling of someone, maybe hear a little something in her head, maybe get a slight visual, but it’s not a full-blown apparition standing in front of her.
ross
									
And she kind of broke it down for us, let us know that she is all of the clairs. [Carrie laughs.] She is clairvoyant, which means she can see. She’s clairaudient, she can hear. And she is clair...
carrie
									
Knowlton.
ross
									
That’s our friend.
carrie
									
Oh, right.
ross
									
Clairsentient.
carrie
									
Ah, right. Okay.
ross
									
She can feel things. Also, she said that we all have some level of psychic ability, and, you know, every time you feel those shivers in your back because you sense someone there, or you smell a smell that didn’t seem to come from anywhere, that little bit of perfume, that’s a sign that you have those latent abilities. Just, you know, anyone could be a concert pianist, but not everybody is.
carrie
									
So it’s just about whether you embrace your powers, which she did, in her mid-twenties, though at the time she never thought she’d be a stage psychic who was traveling, doing this kind of stuff.
ross
									
I would have believed her if she said she was still in her mid-twenties.
carrie
									
Oh. Sure. And then she said, “Now listen, if you don’t get a message tonight, it does not mean aren’t here or that they won’t talk to you. There’s a lot of you, it just means it’s someone else’s turn tonight.”
ross
									
Uh-huh. And she said, “But at the same time, make sure to acknowledge if I do name someone who is close to you. You know, don’t leave me hanging, even if it’s not someone you were hoping to talk to tonight, even if it’s someone on your F-List. You know, you came in hoping for the A-List. At least acknowledge it, and if you don’t want the message, by all means tell me, yes, you’re correct, but I don’t want to receive that.”
carrie
									
But, no thank you.
ross
									
Yeah, no thank you, ma’am. Then she’ll move on.
carrie
									
Now, she did say a couple times that she believes in God. I thought this was clever of her. I assume it’s also true, but it seems like she knew, well some of my audience is probably uncomfortable with this whole thing, and has been brought here by someone else, and is like “I don’t know, I’m a devout Christian, I don’t know if this is okay.” I’m going to put you at ease and tell you I’m one of you, too.
ross
									
We saw that a lot when we went to a Theresa Caputo performance. She’s also just Miss “Oh, love God and country.” And even Sylvia Brown, yeah, she believes in God as well and calls herself a Christian.
carrie
									
I’m trying to remember, did Theresa Caputo also pray beforehand?
ross
									
Oh, I wouldn’t be surprised. I don’t have a clear recollection of that.
carrie
									
Yeah. I think she might have.
ross
									
But, boy, every time they say that, I really want to break that down. Like, okay—
carrie
									
Yeah. Let’s talk.
ross
									
You believe in God, yeah, but is this the Judeo-Christian God—
carrie
									
[Laughs.] You’re doing Trump hands. So pull this apart. Ehh!
ross
									
Does this God interact with the world and intervene in human affairs, does he answer prayers equally among Protestants and Catholics and Muslims.
carrie
									
[Trump impression.] Okay. Okay.
ross
									
[Trump impression.] Does he answer them in China? [Normal voice.] Yeah, so I just really want to break this down. Okay, what does your God actually look like? Because the people who believed in my God growing up would not want to talk to one of your people.
carrie
									
And the old Bible basically says demons are real, psychics are real, but they are bad.
ross
									
Yeah, you should not suffer a witch to live.
carrie
									
Yeah. But we went ahead and suffered her to live. So.
ross
									
We did. We’re nice that way.
carrie
									
So, she said that her experience of getting these readings is like playing Pictionary, Charades, and Telephone all at the same time. So she’ll hear, feel, and see all at once, which, you know, now that I think of it, I also hear, feel, and see all at once.
ross
									
Woah.
carrie
									
Yeah.
ross
									
Multi-tasking. Impressive.
carrie
									
Yeah. I assume she meant the ghosts, though.
ross
									
Yeah, but she’s also, I don’t know, introducing something of a fudge factor at least, just saying, “There’s a lot coming in and I’m trying to sort it out.” And, you know, fair enough. Maybe that’s just how it is.
carrie
									
Sometimes I have to close my eyes to listen intently.
ross
									
Then she said that the voices in her head, the way they appear, do sound like her talking to herself.
carrie
									
Her internal monologue.
ross
									
Which I thought is interesting.
carrie
									
Then she said, “The only way I know if I’m not talking to myself is when you respond to what I’m saying.”
ross
									
Okay.
carrie
									
Which is actually like, kind of a bit of an—an admission.
ross
									
Yeah. Just thinking about what we’re about to experience that night, I can’t think of any time where she said, “Oh, that must have just been me talking to myself.”
carrie
									
Absolutely. In fact, she does the opposite. She doubles down.
ross
									
Oh, does she?
carrie
									
Yeah.
ross
									
And triples down!
carrie
									
[Laughs.] So, yeah, she said, “It’s way more subtle than what you see in Hollywood.” Then she gave us some newbie guidelines.
ross
									
Mm-hm. Yes.
carrie
									
She had seven big rules. So the first one you already mentioned; claim your people. Don’t just leave me hanging while I’m talking about your Uncle Frank and you know I’m talking about your Uncle Frank but you hate him. Say something.
ross
									
Right, right, and of course the second one is you shall have no graven images.
carrie
									
[Laughs.] And the third one is you shouldn’t talk about Fight Club.
ross
									
[Laughs.]
carrie
									
Uhhh, no. The second one is, you might get a message for friends and family who aren’t here tonight. So we’re really broadening the base here. We get two hundred people in this room, and everyone they’ve ever met.
crosstalk
									
Ross: Wow. Carrie: Yeah. Ross: Yeah. Carrie: Yeah. Ross: Okay. Carrie: Alright.
ross
									
Well, alright, just keep that in mind. Number three, the name could be for someone who is still alive, or has passed. Okay. So she might say, “Mom died of cancer. I’m getting the name Pat.” But that could mean— [Both laugh.] _—_the mom is Pat, which would be great, and she’d take credit for; but if you’re Pat, that’s also a connection. Or maybe you have a connection, someone else you mutually know who’s not even related, but if their name is Pat, that’s also— she’s got you down pat.
carrie
									
[Laughs.]
ross
									
That’s also relevant, because she’ll make that connection, just let her work with it.
carrie
									
Everyone kind of, like, giggled at her funny delivery of this, and then she was like, “I know, that’s a really good example, because Pat can be a man or a woman.” We’re like, we get it. We get it. Move on. But, speaking of, my new friend Julia Sweeney has been listening to our show, so, hi Julia Sweeney.
ross
									
Hi, Julia Sweeney. Oh, my goodness, I’m uh, twitterpated. She’s so wonderful and dreamy.
carrie
									
She is. I’m Facebook-pated.
ross
									
Oh, I getcha. I getcha.
carrie
									
It’s rough. Alright, number four. Oh, this is my favorite thing. She calls this piggybacking. So, she said, listen, your loved ones are smart and they’re efficient. They see that, okay, there’s two hundred of our people in this room tonight, we only have ninety minutes, and they get together on the other side. They say, hey, you’re John? I’m named John. Hey, you’re a lawyer? I was a lawyer. You died of a heart attack? Me too! And so, if I say, “Hey, does anyone know a John who was a lawyer who died of a heart attack?” all of a sudden, two or three hands go up. That’s called piggybacking. [Laughing] All those Johns got together on the other side.
ross
									
[Laughing] And they said, “Let’s go play Pictionary with this lady at the comedy club.”
carrie
									
Instead of what you might think is the more logical explanation, which is, you picked a very vague description.
ross
									
Yeah, she had the most excellent example of this. She said, oh yes, it was amazing. A few years ago there were two women in the audience and they both had dads with the same name, and both of their dads had the same job, and they had died in the same way, and they both had secretaries with that exact same name, and even a Golden Retriever. And I had said, I said, I’m getting either Skippy or Skipper, and one of them was named Skippy, and one of them was named Skipper.
carrie
									
Skipper! Oh my God, wish I could’ve been there.
ross
									
[Laughing] And Carrie leaned over to me and she said, “And one of them was Abraham Lincoln and the other was John F. Kennedy.”
carrie
									
[Laughs.] It’s true.
ross
									
If any of you have ever seen that list of all the supposed similarities between Abraham Lincoln and John F. Kennedy, some of them are correct, some of them are overblown.
carrie
									
And some are very silly, like “there are this many letters in the middle names.” Okay.
ross
									
Right, but I remember I had a cutout of that on my wall as a teenager, and I thought that was super cool.
carrie
									
I had a friend who had a numerology thing up on her door that was about 9/11. It was like, nine plus one plus one equals eleven, oh my God. But then like, nine plus the two towers equals eleven again. But nine plus one plus September plus blah blah blah, and it was just like, this is meaningless. [Laughs.]
ross
									
But nine equals eleven is twenty and—
carrie
									
Right, and two plus zero is twoooo, oh my God! Back to the twin towers.
ross
									
Nine divided by one divided by one is still nine, but nine divided by eleven is… nine over eleven. [Laughs.]
carrie
									
[Laughs.] Nine-eleven. Oh no.
ross
									
Okay, I’m not even going to try figure that out.
carrie
									
Alright, so rule number five. Don’t try to fit square pegs in round holes. Rules—
ross
									
This is just good life advice.
carrie
									
[Laughs.] Jerk.
ross
									
It’s a waste of time.
carrie
									
Well, unless you’re in a real hurry and you got a hammer.
ross
									
I once spent a solid month trying to get a square peg in a round hole. I’ll never get—
carrie
									
[Laughs.] You’re an idiot, aren’t you?
ross
									
Yup. I’ll never get that time back, Carrie.
carrie
									
Holy shit. Eight years into this. Fuck.
ross
									
[Laughs.]
carrie
									
So, this is good advice if you’re trying to persuade me that you are not trying to pull the wool over my eyes.
ross
									
Right, if you are evidential, very good.
carrie
									
Good.
ross
									
Yeah, she doesn’t want you to do too much work for her, trying to—oh, I want this reading to be for me, so I’m going to squeeze that connection.
carrie
									
You said Pat, but my brother’s name is Matt, that’s for me! She’s like, no no no, come on now.
ross
									
Yes, well, we’ll run into this later. Number six is, she will never force a message on anyone. So, if you don’t want the message, as we said, acknowledge that it’s for you, but you don’t want it.
carrie
									
And then rule number seven, don’t give too much evidence. She might stop you because you’re giving her too much data. She’s like—
ross
									
She’s an evidential medium.
carrie
									
Yeah. If you start filling in the gaps for me, how am I supposed to prove to you that I’m talking to the dead?
ross
									
And we didn’t say beforehand, we were wondering whether she would try to hot read us at all, and you left something for her.
carrie
									
I did. Yeah, sorry to everyone who follows me on Twitter, because like forty-five people liked this, and I felt bad about it. So I do that Goodreads reading challenge, and every time I finish a book it’s like, do you want to tweet it? So I do. And so, this last time, it was like, I’m on book, whatever, 35 of 42, and I replied to it, and I said, as my Grandmother Tilly would have said, were she still alive, “If you do anything with this life, Carrie, read, read, read.” A bunch of people were like, “Aw, Carrie’s grandma, Tilly!” Didn’t have a grandma named Tilly. But, I thought that would be a very easy thing to pick up on.
ross
									
Maybe. Yeah, if she looks at your recent Twitter feed. Oh, grandma Tilly, she’s gonna show up tonight.
carrie
									
But will she? We’ll find out.
ross
									
Will she?
promo
									
[Wolf howls. Dramatic piano and organ music. Throughout, the wolf howls again, and a crow caws.] April Wolfe: Hello there, ghouls and gals. It is I, April Wolfe. I'm here to take you through the twisty, scary, heart-pounding world of genre cinema on the exhilarating program known as Switchblade Sisters. [Sinister echo on the title.] The concept is simple: I invite a female filmmaker on each week, and we discuss their favorite genre film. Listen in closely to hear past guests, like The Babadook director Jennifer Kent, Winter's Bone director Debra Granik, and so many others every Thursday on MaximumFun.org. Tune in! If you dare... [Thunder booms, something growls over April as she cackles evilly, and then all sound abruptly cuts.] April: [Rapidly] It's actually a very thought-provoking show that deeply explores the craft and philosophy behind the filmmaking process while also examining film through the lens of the female gaze. So, like, you should listen. [Same sinister echo effect] Switchblade Sisters!
carrie
									
So then she asked if there were any people who were skeptical of psychics out in the audience tonight.
ross
									
So I kind of half raised my hand, but I was toward the back, I don’t think she saw me. She saw one person over to stage left, our side, toward the front, and said, “Oh, well good on you for coming tonight.” And in those videos I had seen of her earlier, she had been nominally very open to people expressing skepticism, saying God bless you, and that’s great, go ahead, that’s fine, be skeptical, that’s good.
carrie
									
Yeah, she said she loves skeptics.
ross
									
Just, you know, stay open.
carrie
									
“They’re wasting their lives, but I love them.” I did notice that the people who raised their hands were mostly men. And there were so few men there.
ross
									
Yeah, you pointed that out. It was mostly women there. It was a good mix, I would say, of ages. There were young people.
carrie
									
Yeah! Yeah, there was a good age spread. I would say a pretty homogeneous racial makeup, I’d say most of the people were white, but not all. 
ross
									
Maybe quite a few Latino people there. Latinx. I would estimate maybe seventy, or even more, percent women.
carrie
									
So many. It’s always more women than men in almost everything we go to in this sort of spiritual realm, but I would say this was even a little higher ratio than usual.
ross
									
Lot of women, and can only assume some of the men were just sort of brought along, like, “Well, you’re coming with me.”
carrie
									
“Because you need to make peace with your mother!” So, she said sometimes she’ll be pulled toward one table, and she might identify you by your clothes, so please be aware of what you’re wearing. If I’m saying lady in the red dress… know that you’re wearing a red dress.
ross
									
She refers to her GPS frequently. That’s what sort of guides her. So, she said her GPS may be imperfect at times, but she could be saying something that would be relevant to the person right behind you. So, always be paying attention, be ready. If she’s looking in your general area, you know—
carrie
									
That counts
ross
									
—the spirits, they all—they’re all jockeying for attention.
carrie
									
Right. Alright, so let’s get into it. First we’re going to give a huge round of applause for our friends on the other side. Woo!
ross
									
[Singing.] “We’ve got friends on the other side.”
carrie
									
Oh, yeah, what is that? That’s a Disney song.
ross
									
Princess and the Frog.
carrie
									
Oh, Princess and the Frog.
ross
									
Dr. Facilier’s song.
carrie
									
Okay. Shouted Tome’s name, Tome!.
ross
									
Oh, nice.
carrie
									
Alright, let’s get into these readings.
ross
									
Yeah.
carrie
									
First name she got was a Frank or a Francis.
ross
									
Yeah, and it was a heart attack, somebody who died very quickly.
carrie
									
And she said, I’m getting drawn to this gentleman with the button-down shirt, maybe in this back area.
ross
									
And it was toward us, too, and I’m kind of looking behind me. Oh, no, she’s pointing to the guy with the stripey shirt, okay.
carrie
									
Yeah, so she’s like, anyone in this back area, anybody? No one’s really responding, and then finally a woman says, “Kinda.”
ross
									
[Laughs.] Kinda Frank or Francis.
carrie
									
Yeah. Cindy’s like, “No, I don’t like kinda, I like ‘yes!’.” Then the woman says, “Well, you know—”
ross
									
“—my father was Frank, but he took his time dying.”
carrie
									
[Laughs.] “He’s still dying.” No, uh she said, “My father in law kind of matches that description, but he’s not named Frank. I do know a Fred.” She’s like, “No, no, no, okay, that’s too far of a departure.”
ross
									
And then someone said, “well I had a father who was a Frankie, but it wasn’t a heart attack, but he did have heart problems.”
carrie
									
And apparently that one’s close enough for some reason. She says, “Okay, slight misinterpretation. Okay. Well, he’s pumped to be here. He’s got a great sense of humor. Good man, right?”
ross
									
Right.
carrie
									
Yup. Mm-hm. “And he had good morals. He made a point to instill good morals in you and your brothers and sisters, and he always gave back to the community, right?”
ross
									
They kind of nodded with that. Yeah, sure.
carrie
									
Yeah, mm-hm. Wasn’t an asshole, yeah. And then she asked if they were currently living with a woman with dementia.
ross
									
Yeah, “I’m sensing there’s a woman with dementia connected somehow.”
carrie
									
They’re like, “Ooh, no. Well, our mother had dementia, but she died two months before he did.”
ross
									
“Ah, okay. Well that’s okay. That’s it, and I felt that.” She kept saying, “That’s okay.” Like, that’s good enough for my purposes.
carrie
									
Right. And it’s so weird, she like—on the one hand, she wants you to be like, okay, she’s holding higher standards than the usual crowd, and then on the other hand she’s not holding higher standards.
ross
									
But she’ll let you know when the bar has been met. “Oh, that’s alright.” It’s funny, very often someone would say, like, “Oh, but my brother’s still living,” and she’d say, “That’s okay.”
carrie
									
That’s fine. He’s sending you a message anyway.
ross
									
It’s alright that he’s not dead. Well, thank you. [Laughs.]
carrie
									
Agreed. So she said, yeah that’s okay, your mom and dad are together on the other side, so that’s awesome to know, right? And they’re like, yes, thank you.
ross
									
You’ve given me that mental image of them together on the other side.
carrie
									
Good. Good. And she said it was a long, long love. And that woman did seem touched by that. She said, “Yeah, seventy years,” and her voice kind of cracked.
ross
									
Oh, yeah. I’d say that would be our first solid hit. Not a hard guess, but at least in terms of the emotional impact, you could tell it meant something to the hearer.
carrie
									
Yeah, yeah, that’s true. That’s true. Then she said, “Would you have lost a brother as well?” and she said, “Nope.”
ross
									
[Laughs.]
carrie
									
And Cindy’s like, “Oh, okay. Well, I see your mom holding a baby boy,” and again, the woman says, “Nope.”
ross
									
Yeah, and she’s like, trying to milk this. Like, well maybe she had a miscarriage early on that you didn’t know about, or something like that.
carrie
									
Right. And she’s like, “I doubt it, but maybe.” But then there was a woman next to her who had, in fact, lost a son, and so it turns out the woman next to her is holding her baby.
ross
									
Yeah, this is so slippery. It’s so easy. Oh, someone sitting next to you can relate to this statement. Okay, well, it just so happens they’re consorting on the other side, in heaven or wherever.
carrie
									
And like, the mother who died is like, “Hey, Janeen—”
ross
									
“Can I hold your baby?”
carrie
									
Yeah, “Can I hold your baby, because I know that our kids are going to be sitting next to each other at a comedy club.”
ross
									
At a comedy club.
carrie
									
Yeah, how does this work?
ross
									
Yeah, this says some weird things about what happens in the afterlife.
carrie
									
But, uh, Cindy said, “The mom also says ‘no more bed sores on the other side’.” We all had a good chuckle at that.
ross
									
Yeah, I don’t think there was any vociferous response to that. It seems like a fairly safe guess.
carrie
									
Sure. Someone who had dementia was probably pretty aged, probably in bed a long time. Sure.
ross
									
Mm-hm. And so she started to move on, but this is another thing she would do throughout the performance. She would say, wait a second, wait, I missed something over here. There’s something else. One more thing, like Colombo would say. So then she said, “Well, is there a Mary? I feel like there’s a Mary here.”
carrie
									
And those particular women she had been talking to didn’t have—
ross
									
Never met any Mary, sorry.
carrie
									
—have a Mary, but someone else at the table did!
ross
									
Go figure, it was a woman who was Latina. Hispanic. And she had a mother named Mary.
carrie
									
So then Cindy says, “She was Catholic, wasn’t she?” Okay. So, I looked—
ross
									
And emotionally guarded.
carrie
									
Right. So I looked this up. Fifty-seven percent of Latinx Americans are Catholic, and just a decade ago it was seventy percent!
ross
									
Wow.
carrie
									
So, not a hard guess there.
ross
									
Yeah, pretty safe guess. She probably had an important message, though, right?
carrie
									
Yes, no, she does. Mary says “Hi.”
ross
									
“Oh, that’s great. We’ve established a connection with my dead mother—"
carrie
									
“Oh, no. That’s the whole thing.”
ross
									
“Oh. Okay.”
carrie
									
“Bye!”
ross
									
“She says hi?”
carrie
									
“Yup, that’s it!”
ross
									
Hi, bye. Yeah, that was really—
carrie
									
What the hell?
ross
									
That was it.
carrie
									
Yeah, and this would happen a number of times! By the way, also, according to the social security office, Mary is the single most common female name of the last hundred years.
ross
									
Alright, so, pretty… unimpressive at that point.
carrie
									
Yeah, unimpressive. That’s the word.
ross
									
Yeah, I’ll say. It doesn’t count as evidence, per se for me. But you know, she wasn’t wrong. Except that—
carrie
									
She wasn’t wrong.
ross
									
—she was wrong initially and had to move to a different person.
carrie
									
That’s true.
ross
									
She was only one layer of wrong.
carrie
									
It would be fun, though, if she was like, “Oh no, wait, you know what? Mary’s holding your baby. Oh wait, nope! Patrick is holding your baby.”
ross
									
[Laughs.] Speaking of which, does someone know a Patrick?
carrie
									
Yes, oh my God. I liked this one.
ross
									
That’s a big net to cast. Does somebody know a Patrick?
carrie
									
Anybody know a Patrick?
ross
									
I kind of like thinking that as we’re talking to our audience, hopefully you’re all thinking about—
carrie
									
Oh, yeah. Yeah, do you have a Patrick?
ross
									
—people in your life—
carrie
									
Are you a Patrick?
ross
									
Do you have a Patrick? And some of you are saying, most of you are probably saying, yeah, I do.
carrie
									
Do you have a Patrick? I’m really asking.
ross
									
Actually, no.
carrie
									
Oh, okay. I have a Patrick.
ross
									
Yeah, no one comes to mind immediately, except for a good friend when I was young. I lived for a year in Santa Paula, and my best friend at the time was Patrick Grimes. And I just found out recently, because we were reading Amy Semple McPherson quotes in a recent episode, and I told this to my dad, and he said, “Oh, well, when we were in Santa Paula the church we went to was a Foursquare Church.” I went, woah! That was kind of a foundational church for me, it’s just, I was in preschool. I didn’t remember what type of church it was. So I looked it up, and I want to go back there now and see if I can find the old pastor Grimes, if anyone can connect me to him, so I can find my buddy Patrick, his son, because that is way too common of a name to Google and, you know, find on social media. Alright, who’s your Patrick?
carrie
									
My Patrick is Drew’s dad is named Patrick. Patrick Spears. Yup. This is the other thing, you know, you’re thinking like, okay, I… know a Patrick.
ross
									
How significant?
carrie
									
Yeah, like, is it supposed to be my dad?
ross
									
Does someone know a Patrick?
carrie
									
Right, does anyone know a Patrick? So anyway, this lands for someone, who raises their hand, and she says, “Patrick says hi.”
ross
									
[Laughs.]
carrie
									
What?
ross
									
Patrick says hi.
carrie
									
That—what?!
ross
									
That’s it.
carrie
									
Wait, no, he had one more message. Happy birthday to someone in the family.
ross
									
Okay. Who doesn’t have someone in their family with a birthday coming up?
carrie
									
That—yeah, a birthday that seems close. If someone still said, “Hey, by the way Carrie, I never got to say, happy birthday.” My birthday’s in July. I’d still be like, yeah, okay.
ross
									
Yeah, because half the year it’s belated, and the other half it’s just early. But any time of the year, I would have a family member I could say, oh, that birthday’s coming up.
carrie
									
Yep. Alright, now she got distracted by Patrick, but we need to go back to Mary. So, going back to the person who landed with the Mary name, she says, “You know what, there may also be a Tommy who Mary’s a messenger for. I see alcohol everywhere around Tommy.”
ross
									
One woman had grabbed on to the Tommy, said “Yeah, yeah, definitely know Tommy.” So she said, “Okay, yeah, and I’m seeing the alcohol,” and she says, “No.”
carrie
									
[Laughs.] That’s not him.
ross
									
Just a very matter of fact no. That’s, no, definitely not Tommy.
carrie
									
Not really, no. Then Cindy’s like, “Okay, not Tommy. Do you know a Joseph?” Truly, she just moves on to the name Joseph.
ross
									
Joey? Joe?
carrie
									
Yeah, someone at that table must, and then someone’s like, “Yes, I know a Joe.”
ross
									
Now, I will say that Cindy, she doesn’t switch out the names as quickly as the comical representation of a psychic typically does. So she’s not doing the “Mary, May, Marge, MMMMaybelline.” She’s not doing that. She’ll give you two, maybe three—
carrie
									
Well, maybe it’s Mark.
ross
									
Yeah, and then she’ll swap between them, and she refuses to jump genders.
carrie
									
Yes. That’s interesting.
ross
									
We’ll run into that later. So she at least sticks with that.
carrie
									
Now, just to note, Joseph is the eighth most common name of the last hundred years in the U.S., aaaand Thomas is the ninth.
ross
									
Okay. It’s starting to sound… like she’s been studying these lists.
carrie
									
Yeah, it does. So, Cindy says that now Joe drinks too much, and it seemed like there wasn’t any particular acknowledgement from the table. Which, okay.
ross
									
Yeah, we found a Joe, okay great.
carrie
									
Alright, then she says, and was he a veteran in the war?
ross
									
Meaning Joe.
carrie
									
Right.
ross
									
And the woman says—
carrie
									
“No.”
ross
									
[Laughs.]
carrie
									
She’s like, “No? Okay, well, I can see the war, so just hold that piece. There’s something there. I keep seeing agent orange?” So someone else at the table is like, “Oh, well my dad was in Vietnam.”
ross
									
Yeah, but it’s—it keeps jumping around. Every statement takes us to a new person, and agent orange is one of those things that, if it is a hit, oh, it sounds great. Oh, wow, how did you know? Yeah, he had an injury from Agent Orange or something. But then if it doesn’t, as in this case, there was nothing specific with agent orange, she just moves on and talks about other aspects of the war.
carrie
									
So she says, okay, yeah, it must be your dad. So Vietnam was an important piece of your dad’s life. [Both laugh.] The woman says yes. I’m thinking like, yeah, he went to war! Wow, I can’t believe you got that that was important to him!
ross
									
“I was in Vietnam but really, it just had no effect on me.”
carrie
									
“It was kinda boring. Like, pretty forgettable.”
ross
									
“Yeah. Hm. I can’t even remember.”
carrie
									
“What was that? Why did I do that? Oh, the draft.”
ross
									
“But I do remember the sandwich I had before I left.”
carrie
									
[Laughs.]
ross
									
But, okay, alright, Captain Obvious. Yes, the war was meaningful.
carrie
									
Then she says, “Now do you have a brother as well?” She says, “Nope.” “Oh, okay, well there’s something with a falling out of a brother.” Okay, so, same table. We’re going to start calling this Table A, because a lot happens at this table.
ross
									
Yeah, busy table.
carrie
									
Someone at Table A identifies with that, the falling out with a brother.
ross
									
And we’re talking about a good 40+ tables in this joint, but she really focuses on this one for quite a while.
carrie
									
Table A. It is popping. But also, a falling out with a brother. I bet if she had said that to the whole room, you’d get fifteen hands.
ross
									
Yup. Everyone can think of that.
carrie
									
But, okay, we’re at this table, she asks for a falling out with a brother, someone lands with that, and she says, “Okay, you know what? This whole table should just consider themselves one unit right now, ‘cause your people are all piling in together!”
ross
									
Or, “because that makes my job much easier.”
carrie
									
Right. So just know that people are healed on the other side, so. Including the father, who I guess probably has PTSD or something.
ross
									
I feel like once or twice she even started to move away from the table, but she would say something to get her next person and it would come right back to Table A.
carrie
									
Yup. Yup. I think they were enjoying it. They were giving people.
ross
									
Oh, right. Then she wanted to know if anybody knew a Scotty.
carrie
									
And you know what? Table A knows a Scotty.
ross
									
Oh, did he have a message?
carrie
									
He says—
ross
									
What does he say?
carrie
									
“Hi.”
ross
									
Oh. H…Hi, Scotty. That’s so nonspecific.
carrie
									
What the fuck? What are these messages?
ross
									
“Actually, Scotty always said ahoy-hoy. He never said hi.”
carrie
									
“So I don’t believe you.”
ross
									
“So that’s weird, he wouldn’t say hi.” [Laughs.]
carrie
									
[Laughs.] That would be so great. Someone finally claims Tommy, which is a name that got thrown out a couple steps back, so Cindy says, “Okay, Tommy wants people to know that he’s not alone on the other side. Okay, now, did Tommy pass when he was younger?” Sitter says, “Nope.” She says, “Oh, okay. Incorrect.” Did—
ross
									
Yeah, she acknowledged that was incorrect. Alright.
carrie
									
Yeah. Did Tommy have anything with shotguns, rifles?
ross
									
No.
carrie
									
No. Do you know who Richard is? Richard, again, seventh most common U.S. male name.
ross
									
No.
carrie
									
No.
ross
									
I really liked this lady, because it was just so matter-of-fact.
carrie
									
No.
ross
									
I’m not trying to take you down, but you’re just, you’re wrong.
carrie
									
Right, but, nope, can’t give you anything there. But someone from further away claims a Richard.
ross
									
Oh, did she have a message from Richard?
carrie
									
Yes. Richard—
ross
									
[Laughs.]
carrie
									
[Barely speaking through laughter] —says hi.
ross
									
Hi from Richard.
carrie
									
Oh my God, hi Rich.
ross
									
At this point, now it’s laughable.
carrie
									
Yes, it is.
ross
									
Too many people have just said hi, and that is the totality, the sum of their message, from—you know, we finally made a connection, yes, from beyond the grave, I finally get to talk to you again I’m so excited. _[Dramatic gasp.] “_Hi.” Like if I could finally talk to my wife again, or my son.
carrie
									
Yeah, like Amelia Earhart comes through and you’re like, “What happened?”, and she’s like, “Howdy-doo!”
ross
									
“Hi!”
carrie
									
“Howdy-howdy!”
ross
									
“I’m Amelia!”
carrie
									
[Laughs.] God. But Richard says hi, great. And then she said, “You know, it could be that he’s so polite, he’s letting other people come in first, you know? Saying, oh, you go first,” and the sitter seemed to think, no, that’s not Richard’s métier.
ross
									
I have an important message for them but, you know, I don’t want to take up too much time. I’m just going to say hi.
carrie
									
Then let these others through. I’m going to hand the baby over, and then let the others through.
ross
									
But she shot that down, like no, he was not polite.
carrie
									
Yeah, totally. Okay, so then Cindy’s like, “Oh, I can’t figure out why I can’t tap into it. It’s not that he’s not here, because I know he’s here. So I just want you to know that.”
ross
									
We’re condensing a lot here as well in the retelling, because when she wouldn’t get what she wanted, Cindy would kind of grab her forehead, and she’d make those—[Makes hissing sound]—noises—
carrie
									
Oh, God. That’s weird.
ross
									
Yeah, she’d kind of look around wildly, and gesticulating. Walk around the stage and stop, and kind of, “hmm”, and pivot. So she was just kind of working—oh, how do we make this work? So there was quite a performance.
carrie
									
Performance. Performative uncertainty.
ross
									
Mm-hm.
carrie
									
But she repeated hi from Richard again. There’s evidence.
ross
									
Oh, he is polite!
carrie
									
I guess so. Then she got a new name, a Sue or Susan, which, by the way—and I’m sure this is just a coincidence—is the seventh most common female name of the last 100 years in the U.S.
ross
									
[Laughs.] Okay, yeah, most of these have been very high ranking names.
carrie
									
Yup. But, there is a woman at Table A named Sue!
ross
									
Wait, what? She’s alive now?
carrie
									
Oh, my God. So, there must be a message for Sue in this case.
ross
									
It would have been more impressive if it were a boy named Sue.
carrie
									
Oh, true. Like the Johnny Cash song. One of my favorite things that’s ever been said about a parent was said by his daughter, Rosanne Cash? Is that her name? Rosanna? Something like that. It’s okay, we’ll Google it, you don’t need to email me. But I heard her interviewed on NPR, and the interviewer said, “So, I mean, everyone thinks their parents are lame. Did you think your dad was lame?” and she said “Oh, well, you’re right. Everyone thinks their parents are lame. But my dad was Johnny Cash.”
ross
									
Nice.
carrie
									
She really didn’t, she didn’t think her dad was lame. Uh, okay, so this woman at Table A is named Sue. Okay, um. “Okay, Sue, do you understand a male in the living who is struggling with addiction right now?”
ross
									
Carrie gives me this look like, yeah—
carrie
									
Okay.
ross
									
—yeah, low hanging fruit.
carrie
									
You know what? For once, I’m going to ask for emails. I want you to email us if you can’t think of any living male in your greater orbit who is dealing with addiction right now, and you live in the United States. Not uncommon. Okay, but, Cindy’s happy with this. She says, “That’s what I missed. Okay. There’s lots of love and support on the other side coming around him. I know he keeps going to rehab, he feels like nothing’s working, he’s depressed. But sometimes you gotta cut the cord and take distance, and you know, if that happens, he has a team on the other side helping him. So God bless you.”
ross
									
And people applauded for that, and finally we had something more than “hi”!
carrie
									
Yeah, true. So, this brings up one of the things that I think is the hardest to deal with, with mediums. I think probably the psychics who believe and the ones who don’t both pull this gimmick where it’s like, well, even if that’s not true, I’m telling you something that I think is helpful—
ross
									
And give them some encouragement.
carrie
									
—but you don’t actually know that! You don’t know what that person needs. It’s this like very narcissistic trust in your own ability to, like, immediately figure out the situation for this utter stranger! [Carrie agrees affirmatively several times as Ross speaks.]
ross
									
Yeah, and it didn’t convey any new information. It was ever so shallow-ly helpful. Even if it could have been helpful. But here we go. Now she says, “Okay, alright. Now I’m looking towards the back of the room. In the center, there is a pole back there. Someone near that pole, I’m sensing a Margo. Aunt Margo.” And the two women to your right, I hear one of them say to the other, “That’s not a common name.”
carrie
									
Yeah. She’s right.
ross
									
So they’re paying attention to how common these names are, and we think, okay, Margo. That’s far down that list.
carrie
									
Can’t wait to see who has a Margo.
ross
									
That’s in the hundreds.
carrie
									
Anyone in the back?
ross
									
And I’m sensing she was a chain smoker. Tons of cigarettes. Margo. Who’s got Margo?
carrie
									
[Funny voice.] Anybody. Going once, going twice.
ross
									
Yeah, literally said “going once,” and it was just this awkward—and at this point, this already feels like a bad set of readings. I think the crowd feels it. We feel it.
carrie
									
We were all feeling a little embarrassed for her.
ross
									
Already, we’ve ruled out hot readings. There’s no hot readings going on in this room.
carrie
									
Yes. For sure.
ross
									
So, you gotta give her that. But, you can take something back as well, which is… she’s not performing too well in this moment. So we’re just sitting there, and there’s crickets. Nobody’s responding to Margo.
carrie
									
People! So finally one person by that pole says that her grandfather had a similar name. She’s like—
ross
									
“Oh, thanks for trying, but I can’t turn a woman into a man.” So she keeps going for it, okay, maybe it was just my direction that was off. “I’m sensing there’s chain smoking, I’m even—this is more specific—a tracheotomy. I’m getting that mental image of someone with a hole in their throat, with smoke coming out of it. “
carrie
									
Yeah, does anyone know this? Nope. She’s like, “Ugh, I really feel the name Margo. Maybe Marge.”
ross
									
This takes half a minute, and she’s just reaching out there, anybody, then she’s gonna change the name a little bit. Okay, yeah, maybe it’s Marge. Then finally...
carrie
									
So, someone actually did have a Margo.
ross
									
Yeah, her mom was Margo, but her mom was a hospice, like a care person, she’d taken care of a person who met that description.
carrie
									
Yeah, I think it was like, Aunt Margo took care of grandma. Grandma did indeed have a tracheotomy.
ross
									
So yeah, if we introduce the degrees of Kevin Bacon, yes, we can find—
carrie
									
This feels closer than a lot of those.
ross
									
—a trajectory that does happen to end up at Kevin Bacon, but in between it hits Margo and this chain smoking lady. [Ross responds emphatically several times as Carrie speaks.]
carrie
									
But in this case I was like, okay, fair enough that you’d be like Aunt Margo’s coming through, and to prove it she’s giving you a picture of your grandma, who had a fairly unusual circumstance. Eh, okay. I’m going to count that one as maybe her best hit. But yeah, what’s also weird is that her standards just seem to be so wobbly. I can see in another moment her being like, “No, I can’t count that. It has to be exactly what I said.”
ross
									
Oh, right. Yeah. But I think after that long struggle to get out of Margo, she needed something to bolster her credibility just a little bit.
carrie
									
Alright, so she says, “Is someone a nurse, a military nurse in a war?” and she said yes, her grandmother. Pretty good.
ross
									
Oh, yeah, and she detected a nervous condition, or someone who had a lot of anxiety, and she said, “I feel from the spirit side more than from the physical side, and I’m not a doctor. I don’t—”
carrie
									
“I don’t diagnose.”
ross
									
“I don’t diagnose.” This became a refrain.
carrie
									
What person is like, “No, I’ve never experienced anxiety, so what could that mean?”
ross
									
I guess from now on if she came away from this evening having felt like this was a real connection, she can then say, “Oh, I’m feeling anxiety, but that’s from the other side, it’s not from the three projects I have due tomorrow.”
carrie
									
Is that an improvement though? Not sure. Anyway, we all applauded at that. We got in the habit of just, like, applauding after every reading is done.
ross
									
[Laughs.] Oh yeah, then afterwards she told her, “Oh, also, by the way, hi from Jimmy.”
carrie
									
Hi. What the hell!
ross
									
So she didn’t do the search for Jimmy, it was just sort a, “I’m assuming there’s a Jimmy, and he says hi.”
carrie
									
And if you don’t stand up and say, “I do not know a Jimmy!”
ross
									
[Laughing.] Then we’re moving on, and I get credit for Jimmy.
carrie
									
Alright, so we’re moving on. She’s still pulled to that back area by the pole. Dead woman comes in, and this woman had OD’ed from a sleeping pill addiction. She’s getting a name like Sammy, Samantha, no one’s quite matching up with this. Someone back there by the pole. No.
ross
									
It’s not the most common name, either, Sammy, Samantha, okay.
carrie
									
Yeah. They’re both top fifty names, but we’re finally out of the top ten. So then finally a woman near a pole back there says, “Well, my daughter’s name is Sammy, but she’s alive and obviously hasn’t overdosed on sleeping pills.” She’s like, “Okay, but did your daughter lose anybody this way?”
ross
									
Okay. Alright. Added an additional expansion factor.
carrie
									
Right. Sitter says, “No, not from pills.” She says, “Okay, but you understand overdose.” Yeah. Yeah.
ross
									
Of course. Like, with all of these lateral moves that she’ll make, these little expanding criteria. I think of that story of the man talking to the king with the chess board, and saying, you know, rather than half your kingdom, I’ll take one grain of rice, but we’re going to double the grains of rice on the second, we’re gonna double that again for the third square, and double that again, and it’s a lesson in exponential growth. By the end the grains of rice outnumber the stars in the sky.
carrie
									
I tried to pull that on my mom when I was a kid.
ross
									
Oh yeah?
carrie
									
Yeah, she wanted me to wash the dishes, and I never had chores, which is mind boggling, looking back, but anyway. I’ll do it if you pay me, but you only have to pay me one penny, but every time I do it, [laughing] I want you to give me double the amount you gave me last time. She’s like, mm-mm—
ross
									
I know where this is going.
carrie
									
—no, no, no. You just learned this at school, and I also learned it at school.
ross
									
I feel like Cindy is so often, you know, she’s already started on the fourth, fifth square, and then she finds these little ways to extend it to the sixth square, the seventh square. Oh, we found a hit. Cool.
carrie
									
Yup, yup, yup, yup. And we’ve forgotten the journey we made.
ross
									
Exactly.
carrie
									
So, okay, Cindy goes on. “I know you’re saying not pills, and I believe you, but I can’t change what I’m seeing. I guess I could have misinterpreted slightly. There should have been some sort of addiction to pills at some point in the mix.” Well.
ross
									
[Laughs.] Oh yeah, but there is a message here. There’s an important message that I need to convey to your daughter, Sammy.
carrie
									
The woman, who we have not decided on who she is, says hi to your daughter, Sammy, because Sammy can get the word to this woman’s family or friends. Does that make sense?
ross
									
Yeah, the word is hi.
carrie
									
The sitter says, “No.” Cindy says, “Are you sure?” and she says, “Yes.” [Laughs.] Cindy’s like, “Okay, well, I didn’t hear your daughter's name for no reason, so I’m trying to figure out why this woman is giving me your daughter's name. Has your daughter ever said she sees dead people?” She says, “No.”
ross
									
“No.” [Laughs.]
carrie
									
She’s like, “Oh God, this is so weird.” She would say this a lot, when she wasn’t getting hits, she’d say, “Oh, this is so weird. Okay, well, I’m just going to trust the spirit world, alright, they’re giving me this message for a reason. Oh, by the way, do you know who Robert is?” And the sitter, who I think at this point is, like, a little aggrieved, is like, “Yes. I know a Robert.”
ross
									
You get a variety of responses from the people in the audience, and this was one of the people who was thinking, “Alright—
carrie
									
Come on.
ross
									
—this is not impressive, what is happening right now.”
carrie
									
Right, right, and clearly I do know of someone who overdosed, and I don’t appreciate you using it as a little pawn in your show.
ross
									
Yeah. Oh, a pawn, moving from one square to the next.
carrie
									
Exactly. By the way, Robert? Third most common name in the U.S. in men.
ross
									
Hey, I just got a great idea for a TV show. Alright, so you have a one year old, and you take this one year old to visit various psychics, [laughs[ and you just get the readings from the one year old. The title of the show is—
carrie
									
Oh boy.
ross
									
—Baby Sitter.
carrie
									
[Bursts into loud laughter.]
ross
									
[Laughs.]
carrie
									
We have to make that show now.
ross
									
See? It’s pretty good.
carrie
									
Why did I have my fallopian tubes removed? How are we going to make this show? Oh, no. If you have a baby, and you’re willing to have your baby grow up in a very absurd way, let us know. So, Cindy says, “So you know a Robert.” “Yeah, but he’s alive.” “That’s fine. At least I know I’m with you. I know that the message is for you. Maybe the message will be clearer later.”
ross
									
Thank God Robert didn’t say hi.
carrie
									
Oh, yeah! Do you know a— well, yeah, Robert’s alive. I actually kept waiting for that to happen, her to kinda forget and say hi from someone in the living.
ross
									
That could’ve—I bet it has happened.
carrie
									
I bet it has happened, too. There was a connection that she found at the next table—
ross
									
Oh, that’s right, the cosmetology school lady. Yeah, how did that come through?
carrie
									
So, I think she was still talking to the unimpressed sitter, and she said, “and, and is there also a connection to cosmetology school?” and this exhausted woman is like, [deadpan] “No.” Then at the table next to her, someone raises their hand, she says, “I’m—me, cosmetology school.” She’s like, “Oh, okay. One table over, okay.”
ross
									
Then she said, “Oh, well I just wanted to tell you, you are going to do great there.”
carrie
									
Have fun.
ross
									
Which, anyone—I could have said that to her.
carrie
									
Totally. Then the sitter says, “Well, no, I’m not in cosmetology school, I’m a cosmetologist.” She’s like, “Oh, okay, that’s fine.”
ross
									
I like this. The woman was blonde, and she said, “Did you have purple hair at one point?” [Carrie laughs.] Again, pretty easy guess.
carrie
									
For someone who is a cosmetologist.
ross
									
Though, I gotta say—
carrie
									
Cheers on this woman.
ross
									
—cosmetology woman was a little bit of a pedant.
carrie
									
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I think intentionally.
ross
									
Because at first she was like, “Huh, purple, no. Well, it was mauve.” And I think the audience got a little bit of a chuckle out of that. Okay, yeah.
carrie
									
Yeah, yeah. For sure. That’s a hit.
ross
									
That’s a hit.
carrie
									
For sure. So, Cindy’s like, “That’s fine, that’s fine, but there’s something about you using your ability to make people feel beautiful, maybe when they’re in end of life or something.” And she’s like, “Yeah, I did that for my aunt. She died of brain cancer, and I did bleach her hair, what was left of it, and she felt like she looks like Amber Rose.” [Carries agrees emphatically a few times as Ross speaks.]
ross
									
That was, I think, one of the sweeter moments. She made that connection, and Cindy said, “Well, you should do more of that, because you’re really good at it.” Aw, well that’s nice. But have you ever dyed your hair purple, Carrie?
carrie
									
Not purple. I’ve had red and pink. Oh, you know what, I think I did have purple hair. I think I did. When I first met Drew, I think I had purple hair shortly after that.
ross
									
Really. You know what, that hair says hi.
carrie
									
[Laughs.] You know what, that makes sense, because it’s in the afterlife now. Alright, so then a Charlie arrives, for the same sitter. So—
ross
									
Yeah. [Sarcastically] Charlie, oh that’s uncommon.
carrie
									
—now Cindy’s like, “Is there a Charlie? Does that resonate for you?” Now guess… what is the tenth most common name in the United States, Ross.
ross
									
I’m going to go with Elbert.
carrie
									
[Through laughter] Nope. It’s Charles.
ross
									
Oh, weird.
carrie
									
I know.
ross
									
Huh. Okay.
carrie
									
She says, “Charlie had lung cancer.” Now, this is a good guess.
ross
									
Yeah, she got that far. She named, not only is there Charlie, but he had lung cancer—
carrie
									
Right, yeah.
ross
									
—and this woman didn’t know a Charlie.
carrie
									
Yup. You gotta wait, before you dump that second thing in.
ross
									
Yeah, normally she does. Normally you wait to get confirmation on the Charlie first, so you run around the room until you find Charlie, then you go for the lung cancer. She tried to get bold, and—as happened most of the times that evening when she got bold—she got slapped down. It was a rough night.
carrie
									
By the way, lung cancer, second most common cancer diagnosed in the U.S. according to the NIH.
ross
									
Wow. That’s how I lost my grandfather.
carrie
									
Aw. Sorry. But is he Charlie?
ross
									
Nope.
carrie
									
Oh. Eh. So then she’s like, “Does anyone else know a Charlie with lung cancer? Actually, I see a boat, I see the sea.”
ross
									
Oh, this is fun.
carrie
									
I think it’s Charles Darwin.
ross
									
Yeah, the boat, the sea. Did he smoke?
carrie
									
No, I looked it up. He died of congestive heart failure.
ross
									
Okay.
carrie
									
So, someone in the back did have an uncle Charlie, but no connection to the boat or the sea. She keeps seeing this compass. She’s like, “No, I see it, I’m sure. It all has to fit.” He’s like, “I don’t know. The Charlie lived in another part of the planet, and I never really knew him.” She’s like, “Ah, well maybe you’re going to take a boat to go see where he lived.”
ross
									
Yes. Yeah, this is—goodness, yeah—committing someone to international travel to follow your weird little hunch in a comedy club.
carrie
									
[Laughs.] Right?
ross
									
Yeah, this was another thing that she could do to get out of an awkward situation, is say, “Well, go research that.” And I’ve seen John Edward, the psychic, does that one quite a bit. “Oh, that didn’t hit with you? Well, guess what, you need to go do some research, you’re going to find out it’s true. And guess what, no one will ever be able to correct me that I was wrong, because we are in a show right now, we’re in an audience, and uh—
carrie
									
You are not famous and I am.
ross
									
—there is no opportunity for follow up on this conversation, but it looks like a hit for me.”
carrie
									
Right. In Ian Rowland’s book, The Full Facts of Cold Reading, he talks about that exact thing.
ross
									
The de facto text on the subject of cold reading.
carrie
									
Yes, it’s very good, and there is a portion on, just make it fit by saying “it fits, but somehow you don’t know it.”
ross
									
Mm-hm. And if you can vary between these different tactics… you can have a whole set at a comedy club.
carrie
									
Totally. So, then she’s trying to find a Maria with the same guy, do you also know a Maria, he’s like, “No.”
ross
									
I just met a girl named Maria.
carrie
									
Did you really?
ross
									
No.
carrie
									
Oh, “how do you solve a problem”, right.
ross
									
[Singing] And suddenly I know how wonderful a name can be.
carrie
									
That’s a good show. So someone at the next table is like, “Eh, I have an Aunt Maria.” [Holding back laughter] And guess what Aunt Maria wanted to say?
ross
									
[Laughing] She says “hi”. [Carrie bursts into laughter.] It sounds like we’re kidding.
carrie
									
[Laughing] We are not!
ross
									
We’re not leaving out other important messages, it’s just most people struggled for minutes to establish this tenuous connection, playing charades through the psychic to say “hi!”
carrie
									
Mostly. This one did have an additional message. “Don’t be a hypochondriac, because our family lives a long time—
ross
									
Oh yeah, this was kind of a fun one.
carrie
									
—and I lived a long time, so you don’t need to worry.” And the sitter was like, “Oh, yeah, I’m kind of a germaphobe. Alright.”
ross
									
Oh yeah, “Things are cleaner in this day and age, and if I lived so long, then you’re okay. “
carrie
									
Yeah. Alright.
ross
									
Yeah, and that’s alright. Actually that was one of the better moments. Oh, but wait, Carrie. I’m getting a name, starts with a Q. That’s unusual. Quentin.
carrie
									
Quistal.
ross
									
Actually, I gotta say, she at least didn’t do that. She didn’t do the letter and then expand from the letter.
carrie
									
Right. Totally.
crosstalk
									
Ross: But, I’m doing that, because I’ve got the Q. Qu— Carrie: Hmm. Queen. Quester. Ross: No, closer. Carrie: Sequester. Ross: No, shorter. Carrie: Quip. Ross: Quip! Carrie: Quistan. Ross: Quip! Qu—no, yes, Quip! You had it at Quip. Carrie: Quiiiiip.
ross
									
I’m getting a message from Quip. Quip wants you to know that it is—
carrie
									
I do know a Quip! I have a Quip!
ross
									
Do you?
carrie
									
Yeah.
ross
									
I’m sensing there’s white room, there’s porcelain—
crosstalk
									
Carrie: Hm. Ross: —there’s a basin. Does this— Carrie: Yes, yes, this is my bathroom! Ross: Does this make any sense? Carrie: This is my bathroom!
ross
									
Okay, and there’s running water.
carrie
									
Yes! Oh my God, yes!
ross
									
Okay, okay. Well, Quip has a message for you.
carrie
									
Okay. [Carrie responds affirmatively a few times as Ross speaks.]
ross
									
So, the best way to ease back into your post-summer routine is to start it up in September, especially if you’re going back to school, and to simplify your morning and evening—yeah, I’m sensing like, two times a day—with a simpler electric toothbrush, and this is from Quip, this message that I have for you.
carrie
									
Oh. Well, that’s weird. I already have a Quip, so I don’t really know why it’d be telling me all that.
ross
									
Oh, maybe it’s for someone else. Does anybody else not have a Quip?
carrie
									
Oh, probably. Well, if you don’t, and you enjoy sleeping in, and you want to ease into the swing of your day with a smile, I know how to do it. You want one of the Quip toothbrushes.
ross
									
Then you can be like us. I brush my teeth twice a day with a Quip.
carrie
									
See? Quip features sensitive, sonic vibrations, a built-in two minute timer that pulses every thirty seconds to remind you when to switch sides, and help you to clean your whole mouth evenly. [Carries makes emphatic noises several times as Ross speaks.]
ross
									
And we’ve told you before, it’s battery powered, doesn’t have the clunky charger or the cord or anything like that. It doesn’t sit there blinking at you all night.
carrie
									
It runs for three months on a single charge.
ross
									
It really does.
carrie
									
And brush heads are automatically delivered on a dentist-recommended schedule every three months for just five buckarooroos.
ross
									
They really do.
carrie
									
And you get a friendly reminder when it’s time for a refresh, and to stay committed to your oral health.
ross
									
So, Quip is perfect for getting back into a routine, and starts at just $25; and if you go to GetQuip.com/ohno right now, you can get your first refill pack for free.
carrie
									
That’s your first refill pack for free at GetQuip.com/ohno.
ross
									
Quip says hi.
carrie
									
I’m seeing like… a beautiful, green pair of shoes, but I’m also seeing… water bottles?
crosstalk
									
Carrie: But also, like— Ross: Oh. That’s very specific.
carrie
									
I know, okay, stay with me, though. Also something that’s formal but is also everyday.
ross
									
Okay.
carrie
									
Something that’s comfortable yet stylish. I know this sounds crazy.
ross
									
This is forming—no, this sounds right to me. I think you’re referring to shoes.
carrie
									
Yes! Oh, this is a pair of shoes. It’s saying hi, it’s coming through.
ross
									
Normally the plastic bottle would have thrown me off; but funny enough, Rothy’s is a shoe brand that happens to make their footwear from reclaimed plastic bottles.
carrie
									
Oh my God, I can’t believe that came to me from the spirit world. I definitely didn’t have that information before. But now that you say that, I think they want me to tell you that they are everyday flats for life on the go. They’re stylish, they’re versatile. They go with everything from yoga pants to dresses and skirts.
ross
									
Also, since Rothy’s are seamlessly crafted from recycled water bottles, they’re ultra-comfortable as soon as you slip them on. You don’t have to break them in.
carrie
									
Oh my gosh, it’s amazing. And I’m picturing them just, like, diverting a bunch of water bottles from landfills, like as many as twenty-five million water bottles.
ross
									
Oh, that’s fantastic. For one pair of shoes?
carrie
									
[Laughs.] No, the company.
ross
									
Oh, okay, good. [Laughing] Because that would be really wasteful.
carrie
									
Yeah, it’s starting to sound not that great.
ross
									
We—_[breaks off, laughing]—_we burn them down into a moldering pile.
carrie
									
[Laughing] One pair is eight million dollars.
ross
									
Okay, that is not true. They are far more efficient. Also, they are manufactured in a zero waste facility, and they ship directly in the shoebox. We really appreciate this.
carrie
									
Ah, yes.
ross
									
None of these extra boxes inside of boxes.
carrie
									
No, thank you. So check out all the amazing styles available right now at Rothys.com/ohno.
ross
									
Go to Rothys.com/ohno to get your new favorite flats.
carrie
									
Comfort, style, sustainability. These are the shoes you’ve been waiting for, so head to Rothys.com/ohno today.
ross
									
Okay, Carrie, so how is Cindy doing at this point?
carrie
									
Oh, Gosh. I wouldn’t even necessarily give this experience a C so far. I don’t feel like it even matches like, my average psychic experience. I feel bad saying that, but… I think that’s true.
ross
									
Yeah. Well, we’ve met with various—
carrie
									
Psychics.
ross
									
—performers, and we’ve seen this show go down different ways, and this is bad. Enough that I’m feeling uncomfortable for her—
carrie
									
For her, yes.
ross
									
—but at the same time it’s… kind of funny? And I feel like we’re getting enough vibe from the audience that I feel comfortable enough to look at the people next to me, and sort of give them that look like, “Ooh, pretty bad, huh?”
carrie
									
Yeah, this is rough.
ross
									
And the lady who was right next to me reminded me a little bit of my grandma Rose, but she would look over at me, and she had sort of large, protruding eyes a bit, and she would give me this exasperated look like, “Oof, I feel you, buddy.” And she’s got her book on pets in the afterlife. She’ll kind of lean forward and look over at me sideways like, “You getting this?" Yeah, I’m getting this.
carrie
									
And I think she went in a believer. I think she probably left a believer, too, but… even she was not persuaded.
ross
									
I’m starting to think like, oh, if I did believe in psychic phenomena, I might come away here being a little more skeptical.
carrie
									
A little more suspicious, yeah. So now a murder victim is coming through. Does anyone at this table over here nearby know someone who was murdered?
ross
									
Oh, yeah, I see a gunshot wound.
carrie
									
Yeah, I can’t change it, it’s a gunshot wound.
ross
									
This was another refrain of hers. “I can’t change it.”
carrie
									
Can’t change it.
ross
									
It’s out there, I put it out there. I mean, respect on one hand, she’s taken a bold leap and she’s not going to back down from it.
carrie
									
And on the other hand, woof. So, a guy nearby is like, “Well, my brother was shot, but he isn’t dead.” She’s like, “Well, that’s not it, I’m not gonna force it.”
ross
									
Someone was murdered, who was it?
carrie
									
[Through laughter] “Now, this person was scared before they were murdered.” Woah!
ross
									
Whoa! That—that narrows it down quite a bit!
carrie
									
“Do you understand that?” and someone said, “Yes and no.” [Laughs.]
ross
									
Right. Okay, so, “I feel like there was a situation here. The picture is becoming clearer for me. There were two men, and there was a plot, and there were drugs and money involved. Someone was trying to get him, or get to him.”
carrie
									
The sitter’s like, “No.”
ross
									
“Are you sure this is an absolute no?”
carrie
									
“Yes. Uh, he got in a bar fight and the other guy shot him; but he didn’t know him, and it wasn’t about drugs.”
ross
									
And usually Cindy would stop someone from giving that much information.
carrie
									
Yeah, true. She’s desperate at this point, probably.
ross
									
And Cindy lets out like a loud sigh.
carrie
									
[Imitates sigh.]
ross
									
Like, ugh, this is so difficult.
carrie
									
“Jesus Christ.”
ross
									
She said, “Oh, okay. Do you know William?”
carrie
									
Do you know a William?
ross
									
Or Williams?
carrie
									
Which, to her credit, should be so easy. Who doesn’t know a William, a Will, a Willy, or someone who’s last name is Williams?
ross
									
But also this is offered as a quick getaway when something’s not working out. Okay, I’m going to find some other route to get around this current hurdle, and then well work our way back to it. Apropos of nothing, “Do you know a Willy or a William?”
carrie
									
And amazingly, the sitter’s like, “Nope.” Then Cindy’s like, “I know what I’m getting is working. I can’t change it. It’s a gunshot wound, drugs, William. Gosh.” Now, by the way, William is the fifth most common name in the last hundred years in the U.S., and Williams is the third most common surname in the U.S.
ross
									
So, you’d think if you’re working from some sort of actuarial table these are good guesses.
carrie
									
And then Cindy says, “I don’t believe it. The name William has got to be in here somewhere.”
ross
									
Someone’s got to know a William.
carrie
									
Come on. I cast a very large net with this one.
ross
									
Statistically—
carrie
									
—one of you knows a William. So, finally someone says they know a William.
ross
									
Yeah, this was excruciating. This was, I think, even longer than the Margo incident, where she’s just floundering up there on stage, like “Somebody please, William, gunshot, all of it’s there, I see it, it has to be real”, but no one’s claiming it.
carrie
									
Well, someone tries to throw her a lifeline, says, “I know a William,” and she says, “Nope, everything has to tie in, the gunshot, everything.” Well, okay, alright, then stand there and walk around the stage, I guess.
ross
									
Yeah, and then someone had a dad named William, and her uncle was murdered, but the rest of the story doesn’t really bear any relevance, and nope, nope, that’s not it. But then Cindy would say, those other things, is that a hard no? Or is it like—
carrie
									
Or is it like, I don’t know?
ross
									
I don’t know, because if you give me some wiggle room, I can work with the I don’t know, and insert in your ignorance my suppositions.
carrie
									
Then the sitter’s like, “I guess it’s an I don’t know, I mean, it was a long time ago,” and Cindy’s like, “That counts!”
ross
									
[Laughs.]
carrie
									
Oookay. Uh, yeah. Anyway, more of that. She keeps trying to say, “Okay, I see a vigilante, I see someone trying to get revenge.” Sitter’s like, “Nope.” “Someone behind bars.” “Nope.” And now people are like, trying to help her. Someone from the audience is like, “Could it be the name of the person who shot him?”
ross
									
Yeah, because we probably don’t know his name.
carrie
									
“Yeah, you could just claim it is. Let me help you.”
ross
									
And Cindy says, “I’m okay with that, yeah. Alright. What I’m gonna do is I’m gonna go to somebody else and we’ll come back.” Okay. Alright.
carrie
									
Thank God. So now the name Dorothy comes in— —[muttered, quickly] the 15th most common female name in the U.S— —[normally] and this is a hit for someone whose best friend’s mom was named Dorothy. Now, here’s the big show. Guess what Dorothy has to say?
ross
									
[Barely holding back laughter] Dorothy says hi.
carrie
									
She says hi. [Laughs.] Why are these people even showing up?! Go to Heaven! We’ll assume you all say hi!
ross
									
—say hi. [Laughs.]
carrie
									
Okay, and then somehow she sees this as success, and is like, “Okay, cool. We did that. Back to William.” Are you kidding me? We forgot about William! Move on! You successfully diverted our attention. No, we’re gonna go back? Okay.
ross
									
And she’s giving more details about this murder, it was in the papers, and “I’m seeing the bullet casing, did someone find the bullet casing?”
carrie
									
She’s like, “Not that I know of,” and she’s like, “Well, do some research, I think they did.” Which is a good guess, because usually that’s part of a murder investigation, is matching the gun to the casing, etcetera. But my favorite thing she said during this one, is she said, “I feel like there were two people involved.” [Bursts into laughter.]
ross
									
Let me count them. Okay, so there was the guy who just got shot—
carrie
									
There’s the murderer.
ross
									
—let’s follow the bullet back. Where did it come from? There’s a gun, the gun is in a hand, the hand is on an arm, the arm is on a second person!
carrie
									
There’s a murderer and a murderee.
ross
									
Two people.
carrie
									
Okay, very good.
ross
									
Yeah, she’s pretty smart! [Ross responds emphatically as Carrie speaks.]
carrie
									
So now a woman is coming through, and it’s like a sister or a close female friend. She’s not really sure who it’s for, but at the time she was diagnosed with a blood cancer, but misdiagnosed initially—you know what? Is it the name Gretchen?
ross
									
That’s a pretty unusual guess, Gretchen. [Ross continues responding emphatically as Carrie continues.]
carrie
									
Yeah, and as she said it there was this big feedback boom on her microphone and she said, “Hi, Gretchen.” [Carrie responds affirmatively as Ross speaks.]
ross
									
Which I had seen her do in one of her other videos. There was a little technical feedback, and she used that as an excuse to be like, “oh, here they are.” So she’s talking about Gretchen dying, and Carrie and I look at each other as she’s trying to make this fit for this person. The person doesn’t know a Gretchen, doesn’t know someone with leukemia, so this isn’t quite working. So someone tries to throw her a lifeline and say, “Could it be Greta?” So I immediately think of our poor dearly departed gretta.com— [Carrie begins laughing.] _—_which used to have transcripts of our show, which was fantastic.
carrie
									
Run by volunteers.
ross
									
And unfortunately, it went away. But now I’m thinking about greta.com, and as she’s saying things that are vague, I can kind of make them fit the website? And so I start chuckling thinking about—
carrie
									
Gretta, who died in a terrible crash.
ross
									
The poor— [Laughs.] Yeah, a website crash. So I start chuckling, and the woman to the right of me, she looks over at me with that sideways glance and she starts chuckling.
carrie
									
You guys lost it.
ross
									
I couldn’t stop. It was bad.
carrie
									
You guys became very good friends in that moment.
ross
									
I’m laughing hard, and she’s laughing hard, and we’re both trying to keep our heads down and not look at each other. Oh, it was so bad, yeah. And I was just telling brain, please stop, stop connecting this to gretta.com.
carrie
									
So there is someone who has a cousin who died of leukemia, doesn’t know a Gretchen, doesn’t know a Greta, but someone next to her knows a Gretchen, so somehow that’s relevant.
ross
									
I’m glad you were paying attention while I was busy laughing. I missed a lot here. [Ross interjects affirmatively as Carrie speaks.]
carrie
									
So now it’s just like, you know a Gretchen, a woman next to you knew someone who had leukemia, we’re going to treat you as if you’re the same person. Then, Cindy says, “Well, the person with cancer didn’t get diagnosed until later.” Which is—yeah, leukemias often get diagnosed late because they’re very fast moving. And she says, “But she went out with grace. She believed in God. She’s at peace. So, don’t be angry. “And—oh, what’s that? The lawsuit can be dropped, if that means anything.” And it didn’t seem to mean anything. There was no response.
ross
									
Poor Cindy. She’s dropping—
carrie
									
I know!
ross
									
—so many things that—
carrie
									
She’s trying so hard!
ross
									
—on a normal night, you would get maybe a third of them, but those would be really good hits.
carrie
									
Yeah, but also drop them one at a time, hon. Don’t combine Gretchen and lawsuit.
ross
									
And they’re all failing tonight.
carrie
									
Yeah. You want one thing that would be an amazing hit, and then a bunch of very easy things surrounding it. Uh, one of my favorite moments, she said, “Does the name Scooter mean anything to anyone?”
ross
									
Oh yeah, and you were one of maybe three people in the room who raised their hands.
carrie
									
I think there were a good four or five of us. But I do think a lot of them were at the same table, so maybe they had the same Scooter.
ross
									
And I raised my hand like, “Oh, Scooter Libby. I remember him from the George W. Bush administration.”
carrie
									
[Laughs.] So a few of us raise our hands, and she’s like, “Oh, okay, that’s a lot of people.” So! I’m thinking, like, oh good, I’m going to get—
ross
									
Piggybacking.
carrie
									
—to piggyback on this one, yeah. Okay so, I had—that morning, a dog had left my apartment who had been staying with me for three days. My friend Matt and Mary’s dog, Scooter.
ross
									
Woah.
carrie
									
And she said something about Scooter having neck troubles, and Scooter wears a collar, not a harness—
ross
									
Oh my Goodness. [Ross responds emphatically as Carrie speaks.]
carrie
									
—and is always pulling, so he does get, you know, he gets that dog cough [imitates coughing] from a tough collar. So I’m thinking like, yeah, oh my Gosh! And I’m thinking, this is going to be great, she’s going to call on me and I’ll be like, “Yeah, my friend Scooter, he’s twelve. He was actually staying with me this weekend,” and she won’t realize it’s a dog, and we’ll see where this goes. But, she started talking to these other people.
ross
									
She wasn’t calling on Carrie.
carrie
									
No. So, these other people are like, “Yeah, we have a Scooter.” She says, “Okay, I feel like he’s connected to a heroin or an opioid overdose.”
ross
									
Is that true of the dog you know?
carrie
									
[Laughs.] Yeah, I don’t know. That I don’t know. So then the sitter says, “Um, maybe. You know, he’s my brother and he’s adopted, so maybe his family of origin, hard to know.” She’s like, “Okay, that makes sense.”
ross
									
[Chuckles.]
carrie
									
“Well, this person had neck trauma. They were prescribed pills, they got addicted. So, does that make sense?” And the sitter’s like, “I mean, not really.” “Well, she’s sending healing to the family, and it can happen to anyone.” [Both laugh.] It’s like, you’re comforting me about a person I’ve told you does not exist.
ross
									
Yeah, but you’ve opened up just a window of possibility that this person could exist, if you did extra work to go hunt them down.
carrie
									
Right, and you’re comforting me.
ross
									
And now you’re probably worried about them, and I’m giving you comfort to not worry about this potential person who might exist.
carrie
									
It obviously isn’t this harmful, but it kind of reminds me of this recovered memory movement, where it’s like I’ve created a problem, I’ve created this horrible memory, but also, don’t worry, it’s okay.
ross
									
[Laughs.]
carrie
									
Okay. Thanks, I guess.
ross
									
It’s so malicious. I’ve given you some new, deep emotional scarring, and a light salve to go on top of it.
carrie
									
Right. So then Cindy asked if Scooter has a daughter yet. She said yet, which I thought was interesting. So that gets her out if you say no. Sitter says yes, and she says, “Oh, good, because I saw him holding a daughter.”
ross
									
But Scooter was holding the daughter in the afterlife?
carrie
									
I think that was just a psychic thing, instead of a medium thing. Every once in a while she’d tell us, no, this is a psychic reading.
ross
									
Oh, that’s true, and she mentions, “I am a psychic and a medium.” So, I cannot only, as a medium, I can see the dead, and communicate with them—
carrie
									
And as a human, I can see the living.
ross
									
[Laughs.] But also, at the same time, as a psychic I can look into the past, the present, and the future.”
carrie
									
Yeah, and it’s very convenient, because if I accidentally say that someone’s dead, I can just tell you, yeah, I was psychic, whoops.
ross
									
Oh yeah, sorry, just temporarily shifted out of space-time.
carrie
									
Yup. So now the first light goes off. So, anyone who’s performed in a club, you know there are a couple lights that go off, that warn you, hey your time’s about to wrap up, and often there will be two to three lights. So this light goes off, and she’s like, “Oh, was that the first light or the second light?” and they said the first light, and she’s like, “Oh, good, because I have a long ways to go.” And I’m like, honey—
ross
									
And we’re thinking, this would be a great time to wrap up.
carrie
									
—are you kidding? The most dead thing in this room is you on stage. [Ross laughs.] [Laughing.] Like, come on. Be done.
ross
									
Yeah, you really wanted it, for her and for us. There’s no reason to extend this performance.
carrie
									
Poor woman. I know how it feels to bomb, it’s painful! Like, just let it end! It’s okay!
ross
									
It’s okay, and we’re there for you. Nobody in this room is saying please give us more. Please, sir—
carrie
									
Right, so just, you know—
ross
									
—can I have some more?
carrie
									
Yeah, have confidence and be like, what a great night, bye! Nope, we’re going to keep going.
ross
									
Yeah, then she fished for a woman who was interested in occultism and magic. That was an interesting read, and someone finally grabbed onto that. It wasn’t a strong hit, but yeah, we got, at least, finally someone who was a little quirky, spiritually. She ended with a God bless you to them.
carrie
									
But they hadn’t sneezed. Weird. [Ross laughs.] Then there was a Hank coming through.
ross
									
Oh yeah, and she was saying like, “Hank, Hanky, Hanky-Panky.” Yeah, at this point she’s just like, I’m riffing a little bit here, let’s see what happens.
carrie
									
And a woman in the front raises her hand, and she’s like, “Oh my God, yes!” This woman is so enthusiastic, she’s actually been into this whole show, I think. [Ross laughs.] And she’s like, “Yes, oh my God, my last name’s Panky, and a year ago I was here with my husband, and you made a Hanky-Panky joke about us.”
ross
									
Oh, wow! Oh, she’s a devotee. Alright.
carrie
									
Yeah, and Cindy acts like this is a real big hit. She’s like, “Oh my Gosh, I didn’t even remember that. Isn’t that amazing?” Alright.
ross
									
Then, this was a big moment.
carrie
									
The next one? Yeah!
ross
									
Yeah. So she started fishing around for a Gary. She sensed a father, father-in-law figure, and it was something to do with the will. Something had gone wrong with the will. And I was thinking, well, my name is Jonas. [Laughs.] I’m carrying the will.
carrie
									
Wait, what’s that?
ross
									
From Weezer. [Singing] Thanks for all you’ve shown us.
carrie
									
Ah.
ross
									
But, no, Carrie had a connection to this.
carrie
									
So, I’m listening, and I’m thinking, eh, it’s close, but not exactly right. So I’m waiting for someone who might be closer, but no one is, so I’m like, I’m going to help you. So I raise my hand, and I say, “Could it be Carrie?” And she’s like, “Ooh, now that is so round peg, square hole. I’m really hearing the name Gary. Name Gary is really significant.” So—
ross
									
She keeps fishing around the room. Nobody is getting this.
carrie
									
So she’s like, “Remember to think outside the box a little bit. This might be a message for somebody connected to you.” And I’m thinking, like, I tried to think outside the box for you. She keeps mumbling to herself, trying to figure it out. Okay, then she says, “There’s a man with a white hat on. One of you guys, does this match for you?” Nobody’s responding. So finally she’s like, god damn it, Carrie’s my best option. I’m going back.
ross
									
“Okay, but who’s the Gary. There’s a Gary somewhere here.” And you had to struggle for that.
carrie
									
Well, so she said, “You’re sure you don’t know the name Gary at all?” And I said, “Me?” She said, “Yeah.” I said, “I know the name Gary!”
ross
									
Oh, yes. That was probably the best laugh line of the whole night. Like the whole audience is like, oh yeah, she’s heard of the name Gary, yes.
carrie
									
Then she said, “But you said Carrie.” And I said, “I’m Carrie.” She said, “But you know Gary?” I said, “I’ve known Gary’s.”
ross
									
[Laughs.]
carrie
									
Then everyone’s laughing at this point.
ross
									
Yeah, that was hilarious.
carrie
									
The mic gets passed to me, and I’m like, now I’m just going to help you. I’m sorry. I’m going to give you evidence. So I said, “So everything else makes sense, but my name’s Carrie. So,” and this is true, “my dad is totally well, totally healthy, but he’s been planning his own death for many years; and what you described regarding his will, that’s accurate.” Because she had said someone being cut out of the will.
ross
									
Right, and she assumed that this was you.
carrie
									
Right. So then she said, “But there’s a Gary mentioned,” and I’m like, [laughing] god damn it. So then I remember, okay, I think my dad did have a cousin named Gary. I think that’s right.
ross
									
And we’re going to talk about him right now!
carrie
									
[Laughing] Right? So I’m like, “I mean, I have an unc—wait, no, a c—okay, I think my dad’s cousin. Yeah, I think my dad’s cousin was named Gary.” She’s like, “Okay. It’s so weird how it’s coming through him, because your dad is still alive; but he’s writing people out of the will.” As if this isn’t information I just gave her.
ross
									
Right.
carrie
									
Like, yep, yeah, so again, the rest makes sense.
ross
									
Correctly restated.
carrie
									
Yeah, and she’s like, “But there is a mention of Gary. But, okay, we’ll get there in a second. So, I keep seeing—is your father a lawyer, or are there any ties to lawyer, or there’s law in the family?”
ross
									
Well, we’re talking about a will, so yes, a lawyer was involved.
carrie
									
[Laughs.] Right, there’s that. I’m like, “In the family? No.” She’s like, “But?” And I’m like, “One of my best friends is a lawyer.” Which is true. My buddy Matthew. And she said, “Oh, well that’s awesome! Get your best friend to figure out how to work with this will situation!” Like, advice I do not need.
ross
									
Great, yeah. Which we’ve run into before. I think of that crystal skull episode.
carrie
									
Yeah, what was the advice? It was something very obvious.
ross
									
Yeah, but it was just always, “Oh, I need to get just enough information that I can give you some advice”—
carrie
									
Buy low, sell high.
ross
									
—exactly, “That will change your life. It was very easy for me, but very profound for you.”
carrie
									
Right, right.
ross
									
Too bad you hadn’t already thought of that on your own.
carrie
									
Right. Also, she has somehow interpreted I have a legal problem, which I don’t; but also yes, if I did, I’d go to my best friend-lawyer. Like, yes, I don’t need—like I’d be like, oh my God, I have to call someone I’m very close to to help!
ross
									
But then at some point you did offer that this situation is not to my detriment.
carrie
									
Yeah, so okay, so she says, “Well, I’m sorry that you’re going through this with your dad.” And I’m like, “Oh, it’s fine. He’s fine. He’s just bored.” [Laughs.] Everyone laughs at that. I don’t think she’s loving that everyone’s laughing at all this stuff, and she says, well—
ross
									
[Laughing.] At least the show’s interesting now.
carrie
									
[Laughs.] She says, “Well, that’s not a very nice way for him to show his boredom.” I’m like, okay. Okay. Sure. So then someone else, still trying to help her, goes, “I know a Jerry.” And she’s like, “Mm, that is closer to Gary,” which I disagree with. [Ross laughs.] And she’s like, “Is he on the other side?” Person says no. She says, “Interesting,” and then comes back to me, and is like, “Okay, I’m going to see where I was with Carrie and Gary, okay; ‘cause this man just came in, and he showed me he was exactly like your father. Like he had the exact same personality.” She hasn’t told me who she’s talking about. I don’t know how to verify this. She’s like, “Maybe it’s your father’s father.” I said, “I don’t know. He died before I was born, I never met him.” She said, “Oh, that’s hard.” Like, I guess.
ross
									
“But, it could mean I’m possibly right.”
carrie
									
Right. Because you won’t be able to validate it. “But, oh wait. Do you know who Joe is? Joseph?” And, okay.
ross
									
Do you?
carrie
									
This is a good one. My dad’s best friend, who is dead, was named Joe. [High-pitched voice] It is the 8th most common name in the U.S., but still. I’m like, “Oh, yeah. My dad’s best friend was named Joe.” She says, “Okay, and he’s on the other side?” and I say yup. She says, “Okay, thank you Joseph. Okay, so I’m with you, Carrie. “Okay, so, Joseph is here to acknowledge your father, but they must have been really similar. He’s your dad’s best friend, their minds are very much alike.” I’m like, yeah, okay, sure. I guess.
ross
									
Why. Why are we doing this?
carrie
									
She’s like, “Okay, do you understand where I’m going, because I keep seeing—”
ross
									
Nope.
carrie
									
“—if I’m right with Joseph, he would have understood business, right? He had his own business. He was like a businessman.” And I’m like, “Yeah, he was into some sort of like exporting thing. I don’t really know.” “That’s fine, you don’t have to explain it, but he was a very wise businessman.” Mmhm. Sure. “He ran companies. He did well for himself.” I’m like, eh, yeah, more or less.
ross
									
Sure.
carrie
									
It’s really like a boon—
ross
									
Really important to share information about my dad’s friend.
carrie
									
[Laughing] Right? She says, “Okay, this is where it gets a little bit deeper, because what he shows me—”
ross
									
Please. Please. Just a little bit deeper.
carrie
									
[Laughs.] “—because what he shows me is that they’re different, because your father’s very smart, too. He’s very smart.” True. My dad’s very smart. She says, “He’s good with numbers.” Not true. “He’s a self-made man.” True. So all this time I’m just nodding, like fine, fine, close enough, sure. And she says, “The difference between the two of them is that Joe didn’t think he had to take it all with him.”
ross
									
Okay.
carrie
									
I’m like, “Oh, okay…?” She says, “So please let your dad know he doesn’t get to take it all with him.” And I’m like, “His… money?” and she said, “Yeah, the money, writing people out of the will.” And I’m like, “Well, he’s leaving everything to me.” [Ross laughs.] He cut out my siblings.” So then there’s, like, a big rolling laugh at how badly she’s doing. [Both laugh.] Like, that really is what the laugh is. It’s like, okay.
ross
									
We tortured this advice from Joe that is completely irrelevant to you.
carrie
									
[Laughing] Right? And my dad isn’t trying to take it with him, he’s literally bequeathing it to his child. [Laughs harder.] Like what are you—what is this advice?
ross
									
So, dad, it’s important for you to know. So I went to a comedy club, and there was a psychic there, funny enough. She had a message from Joe. Remember your friend Joe? Yeah, well—
carrie
									
[Laughing] Your best friend. First of all, you’re very similar. Second—
ross
									
—but also he learned, now that he’s in the afterlife, that he can’t take it with him, and he wants you to know that. You can’t take it with you. “I know, that’s why I want to leave it to you in the will.”
carrie
									
Oh. Huh. How are ya?
ross
									
But you know what else? He says hi.
carrie
									
So—
ross
									
He didn’t say hi.
carrie
									
Nope, he didn’t. I wish he had. So then Cindy was like, “Okay, I’m not getting involved in that. But you know what? That’s the way the message is coming up, so the message must be to you. It’s to you. You can’t take it with you.” And I’m like, okay. Applause.
ross
									
God bless you.
carrie
									
Uh, so, I got a reading!
ross
									
Yeah, that was exciting.
carrie
									
I didn’t think either of us would get one.
ross
									
Then, at the end, she’s starting to wrap up the show, and we’re thinking, okay.
carrie
									
Phew.
ross
									
Yeah, finally. She says, “I think we’ve got some time for Q&A.”
carrie
									
And then it’s one of those Q&A’s where she keeps saying one last one, and then like two last ones—
ross
									
Oh, literally.
carrie
									
—three or four last ones. Stop! Just stop!
ross
									
We’ll just do this one and this one, and then she answers both of those, “Okay, we’ll do one more.”
carrie
									
And then she sees a few hands go up and it’s like she’s powerless. She’s like, “Uh, okay!” Like, you can deny the hands, lady.
ross
									
Yeah, or you set it up. You said two more. Oh, sorry. That was two. But I’m thinking, who wants to ask her questions at this point?
carrie
									
Ross does.
ross
									
Oh, that’s right. [Carrie laughs.] I had a question. Yeah, she was talking to other people and they were asking various questions about her gift and how she speaks to people; and I was trying to think, oh what’s a question I could ask that would… maybe get some more information about how she’s picturing all of this going down, these people on the other side. People are asking stuff about like, reincarnation, and—
carrie
									
How does she handle negative spirits?
ross
									
Oh, yeah, two people asked about that. What I asked was, okay, so you have all these ghosts who seem to be aware of what’s going on. They’re tapped into our lives and the decisions we’re making, current events that are going. Does it frustrate them that they can’t communicate more?
carrie
									
More clearly? [Carrie responds emphatically as Ross speaks.]
ross
									
More clearly, you know, because I’m thinking of all these hi’s, and just them struggling to get their names out. “Oh, finally, I’ve got a connection. Finally I can speak to Carrie.”
carrie
									
[Mock-spooky voice] “I’m gonna tell her that her dad’s cousin is named Gary.”
ross
									
So she starts kind of answering that, but not in any specific or interesting way. So I say, “You know, like solving murders.” What I’m thinking is, if even this amount of communication was possible, there would be no unsolved—
carrie
									
Say rosebud. Say the one thing we need to know.
ross
									
—exactly, there would be no unsolved murders.
carrie
									
Or at least very few.
ross
									
And yet there are many unsolved murders.
carrie
									
Oh yeah, because you’re saying like, they would at least come through and just be like, “It was Dave!”
ross
									
Right. Or, check under the bed, or break down that wall, that’s where I hid it. You know, all of these mysteries would go away. So she agreed that this was a good question.
carrie
									
It was.
ross
									
So she said that her work is done when people don’t need to come to her anymore. So she’s trying to get them, you know, kinda the emotional release or assurance that they need, just so they won’t have to come back, and—
carrie
									
I think she was mostly saying she wants us all to develop her spiritual abilities, so we won’t need someone else to talk to the dead for us.
ross
									
Oh, okay.
carrie
									
Because we’re all, we are all psychic.
ross
									
Okay, I thought she was just trying to, like, establish that she herself had completed the mission for is; but yeah, she does say that sometimes they are frustrated on the other side, because just in life, they are trying to get our attention, but we’re not always paying attention. So I’m thinking, you know, they’re frustrated because they can’t use her too well as a communicator; and she’s just saying, oh they’re just frustrated in general because they’re always trying to talk to you and can’t.
carrie
									
Right, and you’re all not listening well enough. But it’s like, but you are listening, lady, you are, and still it’s not coming out so well.
ross
									
Yeah, right. So I was trying to at least suggest that, and she just kind of… took it a different way and ran with it. She said that she just trusts them that they end up getting across what they need to. And the woman next to me turned to the side and said, “Well, that was a very good question, and I don’t think she answered it.”
carrie
									
She didn’t answer it. That lady was your BFF by the end of this night.
ross
									
Mm-hm.
carrie
									
Now there was a question that I couldn’t quite make out, but her answer was really interesting to me. She said, “You know, I hate it when mediums say to a grieving family, ‘You’re keeping the soul of this person trapped in this layer because you’re grieving too much. That’s horrible. That’s completely incorrect, it’s BS, it’s not true, and it’s damaging, because then you’re trying to fight your grief.’” You know, and I’m thinking like, that’s how I would feel about it too; but again, I wouldn’t add this extra layer of trying to give myself more relevance by saying I’m a medium. Like, that just comes off so narcissistic to me. [Responds emphatically as Ross speaks.]
ross
									
Yeah, she’s one to comment on dealing with grieving families to begin with. The most respectful thing to do is to not insert your imagination into their memories, because the memories are all they have, and when you change that, that’s fairly permanent. Now that changed memory gets propagated and that becomes the new memory, and I think that’s insanely rude to insert yourself in that process.
carrie
									
And could be dangerous. Could end relationships in ways that you have no idea! You might think you said something totally harmless, but in that family, with everything they already know, and the narrative they already have built, it could be way more relevant than you think. [Continues responding emphatically as Ross speaks.]
ross
									
Right, and especially when you give them that advice to change something about their lives. Sure, sometimes, I’m sure, it does produce a positive change in their lives. But sometimes I’m sure it doesn’t, and that is not a cool game to play with grieving families.
carrie
									
You know what it kind of reminds me of, is the cheating spouse who’s like, “well, I’m not going to tell her, because it would just hurt her, and what good would it do her?” Well, the good it would do her is that she would have an informed part in your marriage, where she gets to decide if she stays. It’s taking away peoples’ agency.
ross
									
[Sighs.]
carrie
									
Anyway, that’s fun. So, a few more questions, none we really need to hash out, but she did also tell us she’s going to have a show coming out on Travel Channel in October.
ross
									
Yes, that’s exciting.
carrie
									
Yes, called—
ross
									
That’s a great channel.
carrie
									
—called The Holzer Files. Which I guess, the—Hans Holzer, he was one of the first ghost hunters in the U.S.
ross
									
Oh, the name sounds familiar.
carrie
									
Same.
ross
									
Probably read about him somewhere.
carrie
									
Not super familiar.
ross
									
Well, hey, once we watch her show we’ll know all about James Holzer and whether he says hi or not.
carrie
									
[Chuckles.] Finally, she’s like, “Okay, well thank you everybody. Had a great time. Be sure to visit my website, MediumCindyKaza.com. We all clap for her. She walks out, and all of us are like, “That was bad.”
ross
									
Oh, yeah. I was kind of looking at people as we were walking out, and you could just see that on their faces, like… not a great night.
carrie
									
Not great. Not good. So then as we were getting out, you asked me for something, I don’t remember what, and I said surely, and you said, “That’s my grandmother’s name! That’s the first time someone has said a name that matches tonight!”
ross
									
[Laughs.] It’s true.
carrie
									
Yeah, so then as we were walking to our car—
ross
									
I was trying to overhear other people near me, and that wasn’t working out too well, but I did talk to one other person who, we said, you know, what did you think of tonight? “Eh, not great. I’ve seen better.”
carrie
									
Well yeah, there was a woman—there were two women walking behind us, who I turned around and said, “What did you think?”. And I don’t know if this is the same people—
ross
									
Yeah.
carrie
									
—but they were also like, ehh.
ross
									
Yeah, that was them. [Ross responds affirmatively as Carrie speaks.]
carrie
									
And then, after you and I parted ways, I went to Target just down the strip, and as I was in there, these two women walked up to me and they were like, “Hey, aren’t you the one with the dad with the will?” I was like, “Oh, yeah, yup. What did you think of the show?” They were like, “Eh, not so good.” But one of them said they had seen her before last year and it was a better night, so this may have just been a shitty night.
ross
									
Maybe we caught her on a bad night.
carrie
									
Then the other one said, “You gotta see Theresa Caputo, she is amazing.” I was like, oh, okay. So go listen to our Theresa Caputo episode if you want to hear about that, because we already did it a few years ago.
ross
									
That was a fun one, except for all the times that she said someone had died by suicide and it was an accident. Not cool, lady.
carrie
									
Whoopsie-doodle.
ross
									
You don’t make those things up.
carrie
									
Nope.
ross
									
[Through gritted teeth] Theresa Caputo!
carrie
									
Yeah, that—yeah.
ross
									
So, yeah, Cindy Kaza.
carrie
									
So maybe this was just a bad night, and I can think of one way we can figure that out.
ross
									
Look it up on Google?
carrie
									
Look it up on Google, or… show up ourselves!
ross
									
Oh. You think we should go back and see Cindy Kaza again?
carrie
									
I do. So—
ross
									
Let’s give her another shot, see if she gets similar names!
carrie
									
Yeah, so she’s coming back to our area, a little closer, to Brentwood tomorrow night. You want to go?
ross
									
I’m in. Let’s do it.
carrie
									
Let’s see if this is any better.
ross
									
Okay. Well. That’s it for our show. Our theme music is by Brian Keith Dalton.
carrie
									
This episode was edited by Victor Figueroa.
ross
									
Our administrative manager is Ian Kramer.
carrie
									
You can find us on social media @ohnopodcast on Twitter; but, by the way, I’m taking a social media break, so you won’t find me. Ha-ha!
ross
									
Alright, you can also find us on Facebook.com/ONRAC. I spend more time there, and we post lots of things. Pictures, links, other fun stuff. Go over there to the internet.
carrie
									
You’ll love it, and you can support this and all of our investigations by going to MaximumFun.org/donate.
ross
									
And remember, if you’re Cindy Kaza, we have a message for you.
crosstalk
									
[Together.] Ross: Hi! Carrie: Hi!
music
									
“Oh No, Ross and Carrie! Theme Song” plays again before fading out.
promo
									
Aimee Mann: Hello, this is Aimee Mann. Ted Leo: And I’m Ted Leo. Aimee: And we have a podcast called The Art of Process. Ted: We have been lucky enough over the past year to talk to some of our friends and acquaintances from across the creative spectrum to find out how they actually work. Speaker 1: And so I have to write material that makes sense and makes people laugh. I also have to think about what I’m saying to people. Speaker 2: If I kick your ass I’ll make you famous. Speaker 3: The fight to get LGBTQ representation in the show. Speaker 4: We weirdly don’t know as many musicians as you would expect. Speaker 5: I really just became a political speech writer by accident. Speaker 6: I’m realizing that I have accidentally pulled my pants down. Ted: Listen and subscribe at maximumfun.org or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 7: It’s like if the guinea pig was complicit in helping the scientist.
promo
									
Speaker 1: MaximumFun.org Speaker 2: Comedy and culture. Speaker 3: Artist owned— Speaker 4: Audience supported.
About the show

Welcome to Oh No, Ross and Carrie!, the show where we don’t just report on fringe science, spirituality, and claims of the paranormal, but take part ourselves. Follow us as we join religions, undergo alternative treatments, seek out the paranormal, and always find the humor in life’s biggest mysteries. We show up – so you don’t have to. Every week we share a new investigation, interview, or update.
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