TRANSCRIPT Judge John Hodgman Ep. 490: An Ampersand-Lopez Goof Party

Songwriters Kristen Anderson-Lopez and Robert Lopez help with a FROZEN 2 related dispute! Also cases about continuity errors, group text chats and more!

Podcast: Judge John Hodgman

Episode number: 490

Guests: Kristen Anderson-Lopez Robert Lopez

Transcript

sound effect

[Three gavel bangs.]

jesse thorn

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorn. We're in chambers this week to clear the docket. And with me is an autumn man, Judge John Hodgman.

john hodgman

[Snorts.] I am. I'm—I'm very autumnal.

jesse

You're wearing a—a puffy vest.

john

I'm wearing a puffy vest indoors. I find it to be very self-protective.

jesse

Sure!

john

Find it very comforting to have my—my trunk covered at all times. [Both laugh.] But, uh, you know, it's also Halloween time! Halloween is coming up this Saturday, Jesse Thorn. Did you know that?

jesse

I do. I—you know, I have three children here at my house.

john

Yes.

jesse

And Halloween has been an obsession the past four weeks. It was—it's as though I'm raising three tiny Dana Goulds.

john

[Cackles.] Oh, that was almost a—a villain laugh! [Cackles more theatrically.]

jesse

[Comically sinister] "We'll get you, Gould!"

john

But you're not gonna be trick-or-treating during this particular Halloween season, are you?

jesse

We have a very specific trick-or-treating plan, which is that we are going to trick-or-treat over the fence with our neighbors.

john

Uh-huh.

jesse

And then we are going to get in the car and go to Elliott Kalan's house, and trick-or-treat at his house.

john

Uh-huh. Alright!

jesse

Uh, and then try and convince our children that that is a full round of trick-or-treating. [Laughs.]

john

You're not gonna drive by the Dana Gould homestead up in the hills?

jesse

Oh, I bet Dana Gould has Falcon Manor or whatever it is that he calls it, [laughs] uh—

john

Falcon's Lair, I think it's called.

jesse

Yeah. Suited and booted.

john

Right. Yeah. Uh, we are not doing trick-or-treating here in Brooklyn. However, I am personally mailing a full-size Zagnut bar to every child in the United States. [Jesse laughs.] That is my—my treat and my trick for all the children of this nation! And not fun-size; they only sell them full-size. You know, Zagnut is the only kind of candy bar that I like, Jesse Thorn.

crosstalk

John: Peanut butter and toasted coconut. Jesse: I didn't know that you like Zagnut bars!

jesse

I'm happy to hear that!

john

Very savory candy bar. Very savory, not too sweet.

jesse

Is the Zagnut bar a product of the—of Northern California? Is it an Annabelle Candy Company product? I think it might be.

john

Uh, I don't know—I don't know what it was originally, and of course there's no way to find out. [Sighs.] Except by going to this website. [Click.] Eh, [wordless muttering], it was launched in... 1930 by the D. L. Clark Company, which sold it to Leaf later on, and was later acquired by the Hershey's Food Company.

jesse

Oh. [Stifling laughter] So it's been through—

john

So that's Pennsylvania—

jesse

Best known for their hockey cards.

john

Yeah, exactly. Pennsylvania to Pennsylvania, pretty much.

jesse

Annabelle's makes Abba-Zaba; that's what I was thinking of.

john

Abba-Zaba is pretty good.

jesse

As well as Big Hunk, Rocky Road, U-NO, and Look!.

john

[Laughs quietly.] "Big Hunk" is a good name for a candy bar. Speaking of big hunks, uh, Bailiff Jesse Thorn, you're one. [Sirens are getting louder in the background.]

jesse

Thank you.

john

Do you have a costume planned for, uh—for the Halloween?

jesse

Tired dad.

john

Tired dad. Me, too. I don't—

jesse

Yeah. Tired dad.

john

I found an—uh, an old lucha libre mask in the bottom of my son's closet. It's not like he was hiding it from me. [Laughing] It's not like that's his—

jesse

[Laughing] Yeah, that's his—a secret sideline like—

john

[Laughing] It's his secret life, yeah.

jesse

—like Spider-Man before he gets his Spider-Man suit.

john

No, no, no, no. It's a lucha libre mask that had gone missing for a long time. I just found it this morning in my son's closet. And I might try to wear it, but it's a little hard on my nose, and I can't wear my glasses with it. You remember the—I must have told you what my most imaginative Halloween costume was as a child.

jesse

What was that?

john

The Blob. I was The Blob.

jesse

Ohhh, that's fun! How did you pull that off?

john

I got into a green sleeping bag. [Both laugh.] And I made my friend Jeremy Morrison dress up as a mad scientist and pull me around in a cart.

jesse

I, uh, got to go see the lucha in Mexico City last year.

john

Yeah. [Inaudible.]

jesse

My wife and I went to Mexico City, and my friend Colt Cabana is a professional wrestler.

john

Hoo!

jesse

And I emailed him, and I said, "What lucha libre should I go see when I'm in Mexico City?" And he said, "Hold on. I'll hook you up." And he got his friend El Guerrero Maya to get us, like, courtside, or—

crosstalk

John: Ringside. Jesse: —ringside seats to the lucha.

jesse

It was so—like, I'm not a wrestling guy. But it was such a blast. I was—it was like, old ladies, twelve-year-old girls, and everything in between at the fight. And it was a great time. And when we got to our hotel—I had been DMing with El Guerrero Maya—and when we got to our—and he wasn't able to—he lived right near our hotel.

john

Listen to this guy—look at this guy, bragging! This guy brag—I was telling you—I was telling him about how I dressed up as The Blob as a kid, and you're like, "Well, I was DMing with El Guerrero Maya." Yeah, forget about my story!

crosstalk

John: Been DMing with El Guerrero—! Jesse: So he was wrestling out of town the week that I was there.

john

Yeah.

jesse

But he lived like two blocks from my hotel. So he says, "So I'll drop some tickets off at your hotel, and you guys can go. It'll be a great time." And I got to my hotel, and it was like a real small—you know, like a five-room hotel with one lady that ran it. And we—I went up to the lady, and she was welcoming us in, and she said to us—in English, she said, uh, "Also, a man brought you these tickets. Uh, he said he was named... Guerrero Maya? But he was just a man." [Both laugh.] [Laughing] She was so confused!

john

Well, because she surely knew who Guerrero Maya was, right?

jesse

Yeah!

john

And yet he was not in his, uh, secret identity!

jesse

Yeah, the magic is in the mask, my friend.

john

[Exhales thoughtfully.] Well, I was The Blob. Let's get going! We got a lot of justice on the docket.

jesse

Here's a dispute from Nick. He says: "My wife Katrina and I are having an argument about the Frozen 2 soundtrack. On the deluxe edition soundtrack, there's a delightful song called "Get This Right," where Kristoff sings about his failures in proposing to Anna. Katrina believes this song was intended to go at the beginning of the movie, when Kristoff first tries to propose and fails. I argue this was intended to be at the end of the movie, as a culmination of Kristoff's multiple failures at proposing. We need a third party to weigh in and declare one of us right. Please help us, Judge Hodgman!"

john

Well, Nick and Katrina, you're outta luck! 'Cause I don't know! And why should I? I don't—I wasn't in any of those mov—why do I know?! Why would I know anything about this? This is a trend that has been happening on this podcast, where people are using this podcast as a very, very, very selective and slow-speed search engine. They send me an email, and it lingers around until we pluck it for the podcast from Jennifer Marmor, and then we get on air, and I have to go and Google Zagnut bars, and the Frozen 2 making of, and every—well, uh, you know what? I'll—fine. Here I go. Here I go. I'll—just gonna look it up. [Typing.]

jesse

If anyone on our podcast would know what—something about a song from Frozen 2, it would be me! A man with a three-year-old.

john

Alright.

jesse

And a six-year-old, and a nine-year-old, all of whom love watching Frozen 2 over and over and over, and certainly I enjoy Frozen 2 as well! As you know, John.

john

Yes, of course!

jesse

I'm—I'm the number one Olaf stan. Olaf, we stan a legend. [John stifles laughter.] I love that all of Olaf's conflicts are about, uh, the fact that he is realizing mortality. Uh, sort of like the end of, uh, Toy Story 3. [Stifling laughter] I think all children's entertainment should be about death.

john

Well, there we agree.

jesse

But even given my extraordinary knowledge—

john

No. [Fast, continuous typing.]

jesse

—of the frozen world of Frozen, I can't help you here. I don't know the answer. The best I could do would be Google it.

john

[Fast, continuous typing.] Well, that's what I'm doing right now, as you can hear by my rapid David Strathairn in Sneakers style typing.

crosstalk

Jesse: [Laughs quietly.] Here. Let me press the "enhance" button on my keyboard. [A light hammering sound joins the typing.] John: I'm cracking into the—yeah.

john

I'm cracking into the system right now, and— [Typing and hammering stop.] —we're in. Okay, so here—the—it says here that the original songwriters for the—for both Frozens, Kristen Anderson-Lopez and Robert Lopez, and hang on, I'm Googling, "People I know." [Brief typing.]

jesse

Mm-hm.

john

Same answer. And wait a minute.

jesse

Mm-hm.

john

[More brief typing.] Also Googling, "People... right... here!" [Stifled laughter from someone.] They're right here right now! Kristen Anderson-Lopez and Robert Lopez! My friends! And our—and friends of the show! Hello!

crosstalk

Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Hellooo! Jesse: Holy mackerel! Robert Lopez: Hi, Judge Hodgman!

kristen

Hi!

robert

Bailiff Jesse. Thanks for having us!

john

That was quite a long road. [Robert laughs quietly.] That introduction was quite a journey.

kristen

You could have Googled, "People who used to spy on me, because they lived—" We shared the same backyard alley. So we used to be able to watch you go out and barbecue things.

jesse

Yeahhh!

crosstalk

John: Well, look. I know that we— Jesse: This is exciting! [Multiple people laugh.]

john

I'm—

jesse

This is what I tune into this podcast for!

john

And by "barbecue things," you are speaking non-euphemistically, of course. Just barbecuing! Well—

robert

Yeah. [Kristen laughs.]

john

—grilling. Grilling, technically. Grilling. Right.

kristen

Grilling. Grilling things in your outdoor space.

john

I knew that we were next-door neighbors; that's how we got to know each other. And I was so thrilled to get to know you both, Kristen and Bobby, but it—I didn't put it together that your windows looked out on ours. Or on our—the alley that we—we share a beautiful alley in Brooklyn.

kristen

We shared an alley.

john

Yeah.

robert

Yes.

kristen

And your fence was pretty high, so we couldn't stalk you a lot.

john

Nooo, you're welcome to!

kristen

There was only a little sliver of stalkability. Um, which we—we tried to not use very often.

john

There was another neighbor—[stifles laughter]—who was a little bit more intrusive. [Someone laughs quietly.] And... she may still live there, although I—you know, most of the apartments in that building seem to be unoccupied at the moment. For reasons that you might speculate upon. But—

robert

There was even an Academy Award–winning short film last year from your neighbors in your apartment building, about—

kristen

About stalking your neighbors!

robert

About stalking your neighbors.

kristen

Marshall Curry—

john

Yeah, Marshall Curry and Elizabeth Martin Curry, his wife produced it—they're our next-door neighbors in our building! They're our old friends, our mutual friends! And they—

kristen

Yes!

john

And they made a movie called The—uh, a short film called The Neighbors' Window, which won an Oscar Award. And—

kristen

Yes—

jesse

Yeah, well, I went to high school with Jimmy Stewart from Rear Window, so... [John, Kristen, and Robert laugh.] I know famous people, too.

john

Look. You know, one of the things that—I mean, you guys share a lot of... You guys have a lot of awards for your songwritings, including a—one or more Oscars, right?

robert

We need them to feel valid.

john

Yeah.

kristen

We have four Oscars. Because we each won two.

john

[Laughing] Oh ho!

kristen

And they very nicely give us one each, in case things don't work out in the future.

john

Right.

jesse

Do you guys ever get mad that Wendie Malick has a CableACE Award, and you don't? [Kristen and Robert laugh.]

kristen

I would not get mad at Wendie Malick, um, just—

jesse

Yeah, she's alright. She's good in everything.

robert

Mm-hm.

kristen

She's the most angular person I've ever seen, as well.

jesse

Very angular. And she was great on HBO's Dream On.

john

I was gonna tell a story about how a neighbor across the alley in the building where you guys used to live was somewhat intrusive, because we went to Brookline High School together, and any time I went out there, she would yell out the window, "Hey, Brookline! What's going on?" Which I did not appreciate. [The others laugh quietly.]

kristen

Ooh. I think I know—I know who it is. [Laughs.]

john

But—but I take it back now! I take it back now because—[laughs]—you reminded me that Marshall and Elizabeth were out of town for a while in the spring, and we were sort of checking in on their apartment from time to time, and I would go into their apartment and I would just pick up that Oscar and hold it. [Kristen laughs.] I was a—I was a creep. I was a real cr—Oscar creep.

robert

[Laughs.] You got the [inaudible].

kristen

If you go back and watch them, we are so excited when they win. We knew we weren't gonna win, 'cause we were up against Elton John this year.

john

Right.

kristen

And when they won, we leap to our feet!

john

I know!

kristen

And the camera is like, "Who is that lady in the bright green dress, so excited?" They go all the way across, and they catch us like we are their mother or something. [Multiple people laugh.]

john

Yeahhh!

robert

Yeah, it's like we were their family there!

john

That's great!

kristen

We were so excited.

john

Park Slope representing! Thank you guys so much for being here. If you don't know—and you should—Kristen Ampers—Kristen Anderson-Lopez and Robert Lopez are the songwriting team behind all the hit songs from the movies Frozen, Frozen 2, and Coco. Uh, and, um—and they are my former neighbors. You're now back in Brooklyn, I can see on the Zoom. You're in a different location in Brooklyn, a different undisclosed location in Brooklyn.

robert

Yeah, for school. We're in in-person school now.

john

Oh.

kristen

In tents school. And—and it's intense, and it's in tents.

john

It's literally in T-E-N-T-S.

robert

Yeah. Yeah.

kristen

In T-E-N-T-S. [Someone exhales thoughtfully.] And you will hear ambulances as we're talking that go by.

john

We're all doing the best we can. [Kristen laughs quietly.] So, Kristen and Bobby, you heard the question, or perhaps you did. This is a question about the song "Get This Right" from Frozen 2.

robert

Right.

john

Katrina believes this song was intended to go at the beginning of the movie, when Kristoff is first trying to propose and fails. Whereas Nick feels that it is at the end of the movie where it is intended. Do you have any insight to share on this?

kristen

I'm gonna give you the very short version of what I try to explain about the "creating a Disney musical" process. It is not—we don't just get a script, and it's like, "Write a song here. Song goes here. Song goes here." The story and the songs evolve together.

john

Mm-hm.

kristen

And the real quick version is like, imagine you build a giant Lego city in a huge warehouse. And you work for three months, or five months, and then you invite everyone who works for Disney in to come look at your Lego city. And after they've looked at it, they all get a chance to have a baseball bat, and smash everything they don't like.

john

Oh!

kristen

And then maybe at the end of that first warehouse, you have like three buildings. And you carefully take them to a new warehouse.

john

Mm-hm.

kristen

Where you begin to build a Lego city again. And this happens in six iterations. You're writing this musical in six or seven times.

john

Yeah.

kristen

And sometimes only a song or only a story point will stay. And sometimes the whole next movie will get written around that song, like with "Let It Go."

john

Mm-hm.

robert

Right.

kristen

In this case, we had written—here, Bobby, you can take it.

robert

Yeah, so it's—it did come at the front of the story. But the story was completely different.

john

Oh. [John or Robert laughs quietly.]

robert

So it's hard to say. It's almost like—you know, "Yes. There was life in America three million years ago, but it was an ocean. You know, it was ocean life." Or whatever. You know, the—it was a different landscape.

kristen

Ooh, that's a big—that's a big stretch of a metaphor there, hun!

john

Yeah.

robert

[Chuckles.] I guess it was the—

kristen

I would just say it was in the beginning of the movie when it was a completely different movie. When we were looking at a lot more of a complicated arc for Kristoff and Anna, and spending a lot of time having them think about, like, "Where am I happy?" and "What does happiness mean?"

john

Right.

robert

Yeah, the story was that Kristoff didn't like his life very much, I guess, in that version. [Sirens in the background.] He didn't like being in the castle. He didn't like wearing clothes. He didn't like not getting to go into the forest with his reindeer and just hang around outside.

kristen

He missed the woods! Much like I do, as I listen to the ambulances going by right now. [John and Kristen laugh.] I want the woods! [Laughs.]

john

So I guess—you know, my role here is to arbitrate who is right and who is wrong. And Katrina is making the argument that "Get This Right" was intended to be at the front of the movie, and I understand that that's like saying there used to be the United States when the Earth was covered in water—we're gonna get a lot of letters from the many, many Young Earth Creationists who listen to this show. I'll take it. I'll take that heat. [Kristen and Robert laugh.]

kristen

Have them send it to Bobby.

john

It's about 50% Young Earth Creationists, and then it's about 50% people who believe in evolution and the Hollow Earth theory. That's about how it breaks down.

robert

Oh, yeah.

john

In any case, would it be fair to say that "Get This Right" was imagined in your minds as a kind of table-setting song? An establishment of where a character is starting out, rather than where the character is ending up? Would that be fair to say?

kristen

That is correct.

robert

That's correct. I think Katrina is right, technically.

kristen

Though I will say, along with the amazing Jennifer Lee and Chris Buck, who shaped the story—

john

Right.

kristen

—as well as like, an amazing group of storytellers—we did consider putting "Get This Right" at the end. So...

john

Oh!

kristen

So the gentleman in question—

robert

Nick.

kristen

Nick—

john

Nick.

kristen

—is also partially right! Because for a moment, we would—we considered, "Could this drop in?" Especially because we had already recorded with Jonathan Groff, and we he was like, "This is a bop! This is such a bop!" And he wanted to keep it in. But then we realized we could write something better for him, that was more integrated with the story.

john

Got it. Got it. Okay. So I think I heard Bobby say Katrina is technically right. Kristen, you had said that Nick is also sort of right. Is there a consensus between the two of you, or do I have to be the tiebreaker? Who is more right, would you say?

kristen

I'm gonna say—I'm gonna say if we were talking about screening one or two, Katrina's totally right.

john

Mm.

kristen

This was gonna be—this was a "set up the pins" kind of song.

john

Got it.

kristen

For the story to knock down.

john

Got it.

kristen

And yet, there was a time that we also looked at it as, like, "This is when the pins are down."

john

Right.

kristen

"And this is the end of the story."

john

And by the way, thank you for confirming my long-held theory that Frozen 2 is specifically a bowling metaphor! [Kristen laughs.] That was all—I mean, it's—I get into all kinds of fights with people about it, but it's—it's all over that movie. It's clearly a candlepin bowling movie metaphor. [Kristen and Robert laugh quietly.]

jesse

I have a very quick follow-up—

john

Please.

jesse

—about the structure of Frozen and Frozen 2, and how it came together. At what point did you realize that sort of the... the primary or central theme, uh, and technique in the film, would be using the goofy snowman sidekick and a heavy dose of dramatic irony to remind children that death is coming for them? [Everyone else laughs.]

crosstalk

Kristen & Robert: Well...

robert

That was sort of a formula thing, because that's his song, and his song in Frozen 1 also tends toward that idea.

jesse

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

kristen

I—!

robert

But—and you know, we did write a different song; we wrote two other songs for Olaf for Frozen 2, and for the Broadway show. And none of—

john

One was called "I'm Gonna Live Forever." [Multiple people laugh.]

jesse

[Stifling laughter] The other one was called "I'm A Snowman And The World's On Fire." [More laughter.]

kristen

If I'm—I'm really honest, we use Olaf as a way to get out our own anxieties, often.

john

Oh, yeah.

kristen

And sometimes having a deadline like knowing that a movie's gonna open, and the movie is not at all ready, and there's huge amounts of pressure on it, feels like death is coming for us. And so we—[laughs]

robert

That's why they call it a deadline.

john

Ohhh.

kristen

So we have Olaf speak what we're feeling. And we can write our truth through him.

john

That's fantastic.

kristen

Like, "This will all make sense when I am older" meant a lot when we were nine months from the opening and didn't have an entire act two.

john

Oh, right. Sure, for sure. And what were the two songs that you were considering writing for Olaf, aside from my joke—our joke titles for them?

robert

We wrote one called, uh—

kristen

[Stifling laughter] "Unmeltable Me"!

robert

"Unmeltable Me."

john

Oh!

robert

"I'm Gonna Live Forever." [Kristen and John laugh.] And then there was one called "I Was Made For You." And it was much more about—

john

Perfect.

robert

Yeah. I mean, he was literally put together—

kristen

Yeah.

john

Right.

crosstalk

Robert: And it was all about, uh, people have purpose in life— Kristen: [Singing] Bakers have an aptitude for baking!

kristen

[Speaking] What is it? Um...

robert

Yeah, uh—

john

I really—

kristen

[Singing] Something has an aptitude for candle-making!

robert

Something like that.

kristen

[Speaking] I forget.

crosstalk

Robert: It did involve— John: It's really important that we do not get sued by Disney. [Kristen and Robert laugh.] John: Please don't sing any songs on this—I need to—I need—I can't— Robert: No, we own this one!

john

You own it? Oh.

robert

We own it. Yeah.

john

Yeah. Well, then, I—I—

robert

We get 'em back.

kristen

How much would we get if we sue you? [Everyone laughs.] I mean, what is it worth?

john

I'd offer you Marshall Curry's Oscar, 'cause I have access to it— [Robert and Kristen laugh.] —but you're tripping over them already, so I don't even know. I'm gonna rule in favor of Katrina, with a shout-out to Nick. 'Cause you know what? You guys are partners! You gotta—like Bobby and Kristen, you're partners. You gotta work together on this. You can't always be right or wrong. But Katrina, you're right.

sound effect

[Three gavel bangs.]

john

Now, Bobby and Kristen, you're wonderful, funny, and wise people. And I know from previous experience that you're not gonna leave this meeting, and you're just gonna be staring at me through this window, whether we ask you to leave or not. [Robert and Kristen laugh.] So will you please stick around and help us dispense some more justice?

robert

Happy to.

kristen

We will! We will happily interrupt you when you're just in the middle of having the perfect punchline. [Someone laughs.]

jesse

Here's something from Meg: "My husband and I would like to request a ruling on the definition of a continuity error in movies and television shows. I define a continuity error as inconsistency from one scene to the next. My husband also includes errors such as anachronisms, guns with too many bullets, and deviations from source material, just as some examples. We regularly argue over this, and request a definitive ruling so we can move on with our lives."

john

Alright. Uh, you know what's a fun way to watch a movie? I'm sure you two, as people who are involved in the art and craft and the long, strenuous work of making movies, which is this huge, massive—whether animated or otherwise, a huge, massive, collaborative effort, juggling tons of schedules, deadlines as you say, uh, dreams and ambitions that have to be culled, difficult decisions because of budget, and everything else— [A phone is ringing.] It must be fun to know that your movies are going out there so that Meg's husband can just be like, "That gun has too many bullets." [Kristen, Robert, and John laugh.] "Here's something that's wrong about that. Mm, I'm so much smarter than this movie!"

robert

I guess people have always watched movies that way, but just now we get to hear every single one of them.

john

Before I rule on the substance of this question, do you have any amusing movie errors that you enjoy?

robert

I've been watching The Godfather with Francis Ford Coppola's doc—uh, sort of commentary track.

john

Uh-huh.

robert

And there's one—[stifles laughter]—there's one really hilarious one in The Godfather, where this woman—they're standing at a doorway, and they're talking about—I think they're talking to Johnny Fontane. And Francis Ford Coppola just says, "Now, in a second you'll see there's a woman who sort of walks by the doorway, realizing that she's on camera and probably shouldn't be there, and then she just backs up." [Robert, John, and Jesse laugh.] And then she—she indeed does. And—[laughs]—and you would never notice it, but he points out this—that now I can never not see it. It's pretty funny.

john

That's great. Yeah. No, I—I don't mean to be a jerk about Meg's husband. It's fun to know about those things and find out about those things. Kristen?

kristen

I like to look at—just for boom mics.

john

Yeah...

kristen

My favorite thing, especially with TV, is to be like, "Boom mic! Boom mic!" [John laughs.] We've been watching Gilmore Girls, um, early season, and there are these times that there's a little boom mic in, like, Rory Gilmore's kitchen or something.

john

Yeah. Yeah.

jesse

I think often the aspect ratios changing between television and film is a big contributor. The one that came to mind immediately for me was probably my favorite movie of all time is Pee-wee's Big Adventure, and there's a scene in the beginning when he's in—he's out front of the bike store, and he's locking up his bike. And he's pulling this big white chain out of his saddle bag, or his saddle case, and it goes and goes and goes and goes and goes and goes and goes and goes and goes, and as a child I was always so confused as to what the joke was.

john

Mm-hm. [Robert laughs.]

jesse

That he was pulling it through the bottom of his saddle bag. I was like, "What is this?"

crosstalk

Jesse: 'Cause you see it coming up through the bottom, and then out the top! Robert: You could see the hole, yeah. I remember that! [John, Kristen, and Robert laugh.] Jesse: And I was like, "What is this? Why is this this way?" Robert: Is that an error, or is that a joke? Jesse: Yeah! And then— Robert: I always thought it was a joke!

jesse

Yeah, exactly! And then when I was, you know, 18 or 19 years old, the movie came out on DVD in the proper aspect ratio— [Someone gasps.] —and that was how I learned about pan and scan. [Jesse, Robert, and Kristen laugh.] Learned viscerally about pan and scan. It was just that when they had—uh, when they had changed that from the filmic ratio to the 4:3 of a television at the time, a tube TV, they had just—the picture had gotten taller, and so the part that was cut off in the movie theater showed, and that was the part where it showed how they did the effect of him pulling the chain out forever. Which was they just put it on—they just literally physically looped it.

john

I'll tell you one that I've just been delighting in recently. I recently did a MaxFun members only–feed special episode of Friendly Fire, which is a great podcast about war movies with our friend John Roderick, Benjamin Harrison, and Adam Pranica. This—the movie they were covering is arguably a war movie. [Stifles laughter.] It's the—David Lynch's Dune. [John and someone else laugh quietly.] And that movie is covered with weirdness. Most of it is entirely intentional. But there's—one of the weirdnesses that I—and I had taken a picture of the screen, 'cause I had just forgotten how silly this was. Patrick Stewart is in this movie before he was Captain Picard. He played Gurney Halleck, one of Paul Atreides'—the hero's—mentors and teachers. And later in the movie, there's this pug that shows up all the time. The—Paul Atreides's family has this little pug. And you don't know why he's coming—he's going through space with this family. But later in the movie, Patrick Stewart is going into battle, and he's got the pug. [Multiple people laugh quietly, John stifles laughter.] He's got a—he's got a laser sword or something in one hand, and the pug in a little space baby bjorn— [The others laugh.] —like, that he's cradling. And I took this picture, 'cause it's so funny, he's going into battle with this pug dog. And it's only recently that I realized the pug is staring directly into the camera throughout this scene. [John, Robert, and Kristen laugh.] And as someone who—if you read Medallion Status, my book—

robert

Yeah!

kristen

Oh, yes! Yes.

john

—I have a real problem with "spiking the camera," as they say, looking directly into the camera. So my pug—that pug was looking directly through the camera, across time and into my eyes, saying, "Shame on you." So that was my— [Kristen laughs.]

robert

Yeah, to shame you. Yeah.

john

Yeah.

kristen

I just—there was one more thing I thought I would add to the question, which is when we're writing stories, often I—we use this term called, like, "Let's stick it under the couch cushions," or "Let's turn over that couch cushion."

john

Oh!

kristen

If you think about it as like a—there's sometimes stains that—something spills on your couch.

john

Right.

kristen

And you're like, "Okay. We have another side of that couch cushion."

john

Yeah!

kristen

As long as, like, guests are coming over, it's gonna look like a perfectly fine couch. It's only if you have someone, like, housesitting, who decides to look under the house—the couch cushion, and is like, "Oh, that's a red wine stain!" There're definitely, in many of these movies, couch cushion stains that you just have to say, like, "Come on, guys."

john

Just flip the cushion and it'll be fine. Yeah.

kristen

Yeah.

john

Yeah, and like, plot holes, too! Like, little plot holes and things like that. You just—you know, not everything can be perfectly airtight, and nor do you necessarily want it to be, 'cause I think that makes a fairly airless movie. If everything works just so. Do you know what I mean?

kristen

I fully agree. I think we need the stains. We love the stains, 'cause stains are human.

john

That's—mm.

jesse

I like this picture of show business that you're painting here, John. Where on the Monday after the film's premiere, like, the teletype is going, "TIK-T-TIK-TIK-TIK-TIK-TIK-T-TIK-TIK-TIK-TIK," and the secretary runs in to the movie mogul and says, "Mr. Mayor, Mr. Mayor, the goofs are in!" [John and Kristen crack up.]

john

Well, speaking of goofs! This speaks specifically to this dispute! So. Uh, Meg and her husband have a dispute over the meaning of "continuity error." I'm gonna solve that for them now. I checked with Phil Morrison, the director—my friend, the director of all those Apple ads, also director of the incredible film Junebug, and the forthcoming film Satan is Real, when it gets to be made. About the Louvin Brothers. Look it up. And Phil confirmed my understanding that I had picked up from watching him work years ago, that "continuity" and "continuity error" have specific meanings in filmmaking. They have a specific definition. "Continuity" means "continuous within itself." That the established reality of the film is consistent. From wardrobe to prop placement, anything that is established in the film can't be contradicted later in the film. Visually or plot-wise. Etc. So for example, if it's established clearly in the movie that Hellboy's gun—the Samaritan—has only six magic potion bullets, and then Hellboy fires seven, that would be a continuity error. But if it happens to be that Meg's husband is just watching a movie, and just happens to know that that kind of rifle takes such-and-such amount of ammo, and they shoot too many, it's not a part of the plot or anything... Well, listen, Hellboy, that is what would be considered—according to canon, in IMDb—a goof! It's a goof. I love looking up the goofs on IMDb. [Stifles laughter.] Goofs are things like what Bobby described on the set of The Godfather. It's just a mess-up! Just a mess-up. Uh, the car that you can see driving in the background in Middle-earth in The Fellowship of the Ring.

john

[Someone laughs quietly.] Or that Stormtrooper hitting their head as they walk through the Death Star, and they're like, "Just leave it in. Just—no one cares. It's a goof!" [Kristen and someone else laugh.]

robert

Goofs are funny, and continuity errors are sorta, like, nitpicky.

john

Yeah, that's a good distinction!

robert

It's like, "Oh, the—that—the headlight fixed itself." That's—it's that kind of thing.

john

Right. A goof certainly does not, however, mean deviation from source material. According to the IMDb guidance page for submitting goofs that I found today, to my incredible delight. So for example, the fact that in the novel Dune, Duke Leto's Mentat, Thufir Hawat, was never forced to milk a cat that had been duct-taped to a rat and imprisoned in a steampunk machine—that's not a goof! [The others laugh.] That's not a goof! In David Lynch's Dune, where that happens! That's intentional David Lynchian weirdness! [More laughter.] Now, the IMDb guidance page for submitting goofs is an incredible document. You should all check it out. You can almost—as you read it, you can almost feel on your face the heat of the author's seething frustration with all the nitpicks and pedantry that have been submitted for their approval in the past, and it's always like, "No! Cars can be registered in different states! It's okay if there's an Oregon plate!" It just goes on and on. But my favorite line in Goof Guidance is, quote: "A goof must be both relevant and interesting. What is interesting is difficult to define. [Stifles laughter.] But it can help to think of it like this: If you met someone at a party, and wanted to impress them, would this goof do the trick?" [John, Kristen, and Jesse laugh.] So, yeah! When we have parties again—[laughs]—so when we have parties again—right—

jesse

Say you were in a nightclub in Ibiza. [Everyone laughs.]

john

So here's what I will ask all the listeners to do. When we get to have parties again... I really want you to try this out. I want you to pick out an IMDb goof, and go to a party, and just start impressing people! [Kristen laughs.] With lines like, "Uh, you know the movie Pitch Perfect 2? Yeah, that's right. The last movie John Hodgman ever starred in." [Multiple people laugh.] "Well, here's something interesting." [Laughs.] "Quote: 'The aerial shot of Copenhagen contains marks for Poland, Germany, and the UK on the horizon. But Poland and Germany would not be visible, as they are behind this point of view. Only the North of Scotland might be in the field of vision on the far left of this angle.' End quote. Yes, I know that would impress you. What's that? Crab dip? No thanks. I'm trying to be more crab-conscious." That's a goof! [Robert and Kristen laugh.]

sound effect

[Three gavel bangs.]

john

By the way, 25 out of 27 IMDb users found that goof interesting. So what do I know? [Laughs.]

robert

We should have a goof party.

kristen

A goof-off!

john

That's—a goof party is the only party where you could impress someone with goofs. [Everyone laughs.]

jesse

Let's take a quick break. More items on the docket coming up in just a minute on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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[Three gavel bangs.]

jesse

Every episode of Judge John Hodgman is supported by the members of MaximumFun.org, all the folks who've gone to MaximumFun.org/join. This week, we're also supported by our friends at Sun Basket! The only meal service... co-founded by a friend of mine from college.

john

Yeah, but that's not the only reason we love Sun Basket. We love Sun Basket because... they provide delicious, healthy food directly to your door. Fresh and ready meals delivered to you, every week. And they have menu options for everybody. Vegetarian. Pescatarian. Paleo. Gluten-free. Uh, the "I'll eat whatever you put in front of me" option. You'll recall from another time we talked about Sun Basket, I got very excited when I thought they had a crab-conscious menu. And then— [Both laugh.] And then I realized, "Ope. My mistake. It's carb-conscious." Which is fine! Whether it's crabs or carbs, we're all trying to eat more consciously, a little bit more mindfully, now that we're mostly—uh, if we're lucky, safe at home, and left alone with our food. And if you're not mindful about it you end up like me last night at one AM, eating peanut butter out of the jar in front of the refrigerator. Sun Basket can help you plan a more mindful way of eating, that is also more mindful of your safety, the safety of supermarket workers, the safety of their workers, and general deliciousness.

jesse

Yeah, I cooked a Southwestern turkey and sweet potato skillet when I had the Sun Basket at my house. I loved it so much that it actually—I mean, you and I, John, are both home cooks.

john

Yes.

jesse

And you know, I cook for myself and my wife and my kids, and the other day I was thinking about how much I had enjoyed that turkey and sweet potato skillet, and I made a copycat version slightly different with some stuff that was in my frigerator, because I had enjoyed that recipe so much. I think Sun Basket is a real conscientious choice with great recipes, and great, quality ingredients, at least in my experience. And it was so great that it inspired me to create! So—

john

Yeah!

jesse

Sometimes people think that these are only for people who don't like to cook at home, or only for people who—this is for everyone. It is inspirational for enthusiastic cooks. It is a relaxing evening off for people who have to do the meal-planning.

john

Yeah!

jesse

It is a tasty adventure for new cooks. It—there's something there for everybody, I think.

john

I'll tell you what. I used to be an avid home cook. Not anymore. Past tense for me, Jesse. [Jesse laughs quietly.] This whole experience, it's like, "I don't care anymore." This passion that has been mine since I used to watch Julia Child when I was 12 with a notebook is just—it's—it's gone now. It's gone—I don't get—I don't—I don't care. Like, I don't—I can't think of a new thing to make. But with Sun Basket, not only am I getting the food delivered to my door—and this is really wonderful, high-quality stuff. Really beautifully sourced ingredients, perfectly proportioned, great recipes. But also new ideas! That I—that I'm—I'm out of ideas myself! Now I got new ideas! Like orecchiette with asparagus, crisp prosciutto, and feta? On this week's menu—I haven't made this one yet, but it's Italian sausages and vegetable skewers... with two romescos. That sounds like a riddle, or a mystery. The Two Romescos.

jesse

Yeah!

john

And for seafood, you got your spicy shrimp paella, pan-cooked sole, even Hawai'i poke bowls. No crab! But if you're crab-crazy like me—if you're crab-crazy like Crazy Crab, the old San Francisco Giants mascot, guess what? Scroll down! You can grab a pair of crabcakes from their à la carte protein menu, for the crab-conscious! Plus—and this is the last thing I'll say. 'Cause this is amazing to me. They got snacks. Not just meals, but snacks. Little individual yogurts, nuts, whatever. But they've got cheese. They've got good cheese. They've—not only the Cabot clothbound cheddar, which for my money is one of the best cheds. But also Mt Tam from Cowgirl Creamery. You know Mt Tam? That cheese, Jesse?

jesse

Yeah, that's where my wife went to high school before she transferred to my high school.

john

Yeah! It's one of the top bloomy rinds from Theresa Thorn's high school town! And you're not gonna drive up to Point Reyes in Marin County to get this cheese now! Have Sun Basket deliver it to your door.

jesse

Right now Sun Basket is offering $35 off your order when you go— right now—to SunBasket.com/hodgman and enter the promo code "hodgman" at checkout. That's SunBasket.com/hodgman, and enter promo code "hodgman" at checkout for $35 off your order.

john

SunBasket.com/hodgman, and enter promo code "hodgman."

sound effect

[Three gavel bangs.]

promo

Music: Dramatic, movie trailer–esque music. [The hosts use very "announcer" voices in this promo.] Mark Gagliardi: We interrupt the podcast you're listening to to tell you about another podcast! That's right: We Got This with Mark and Hal. Hal Lublin: That's correct, Mark! This is Hal. We do the hard work for you, settling all of the meaningless arguments you have with your friends. Mark: So tune in every week on the Maximum Fun network for We Got This with Mark and Hal, and all your questions will be asked... and answered. Hal: You're welcome! [Music reaches an apex and quiets down.] Mark: Alright. That's enough of that. Chorus: [Singing] We Got This!

sound effect

[Three gavel bangs.]

jesse

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. This week we're clearing the docket with CableACE Award non-winners Kristen Anderson-Lopez and Bobby Lopez. [One or both guests laugh quietly.]

john

Wow, you're really rubbing it in.

crosstalk

Robert: Yeah. Kristen: Mm.

jesse

Yeah, well, you know! I mean—

kristen

[Fiercely] That Wendie Malick!

jesse

Yeah.

robert

Is it too late to win the CableACE Award? Do they still have 'em?

jesse

Brian Benben was nominated but did not win, if you're wondering. Initially I was gonna say Brian Benben, but I thought I'd better look that up. He didn't win.

robert

Hm.

john

Look, I—awards mean nothing. And so it means nothing to me, Bobby, that—do you both have the EGOT? Or is it just Bobby? I'm sorry, is it—is it a—

kristen

Just Bobby. I've got a GOGO.

john

Is it a sensitive—you got a GOGO?

kristen

I've got a GOGO.

john

Yeah.

kristen

No, it's not sensitive at all! I'm really proud of his awards, and I also know that I was very much involved behind the scenes of all of them.

robert

That's true. [Kristen laughs.]

jesse

I bought a Blockbuster Entertainment Award on eBay.

john

I've only got a NOGN (noggin). Which—

kristen

A NOGN!

john

Yeah. Neighbor's Oscar... Grammy Nominee. [Everyone laughs.]

jesse

I mean, John, we won that Webby!

robert

Yeah!

john

That's true.

kristen

Yeah!

john

I got a NOWPGN (nowp-guhn). So Neighbor's Oscar, Webby, Potential Grammy Nominee. [Someone laughs quietly.] I think that's where, uh, Medallion Status's audiobook is currently in—

crosstalk

Robert: Alriiight! Kristen: Oooh!

john

If you're a member of the Recording Academy, let me just say, "For your consideration." That's all I'm allowed to say, so there we go. [Kristen chuckles.]

robert

Wink, wink.

jesse

I have two Metro Santa Cruz Woody Awards, so... not bragging. I'm—I'm pretty chill, too.

john

What do you get—?

kristen

Santa Cruz Woody?

john

How do—?

jesse

Yeah.

kristen

That just sounds dirty.

john

I know!

robert

Is it a surfing league? [Kristen laughs.] What is that?

john

Yeah, what is it?

jesse

A woody is the type of station wagon that you use, classically, to go surfing in.

john

Right.

robert

Yeah.

jesse

The kind with wood trim on it. Uh, you know, from the—from the late fifties, early sixties. And, uh, the Metro Santa Cruz is the now-defunct alternative newspaper. [Stifles laughter.] One of the two now-defunct alternative newspapers of Santa Cruz, California.

crosstalk

John: So it's a— Kristen: Go Banana Slugs! Robert: Do you drive your woody with a bushy, bushy blonde hairdo? [Kristen laughs.]

jesse

Yeah. Exactly. [Laughs.]

john

It's a journalism award?

jesse

No, it was an award for being the best radio host in Santa Cruz. Although to be fair, the way we did it is the newspaper was free, so we just bought—got a huge pile of them, cut out the thing, marked our name in "Best radio personality," passed them out at the dining hall, collected them, and then brought them to the Metro Santa Cruz. [John and Kristen stifle laughter.]

john

The Wo—so like, the Woodies are the Golden Globes of Santa Cruz awards.

jesse

Yeah. Ballot fraud is real, John. [Jesse, Kristen, and Robert laugh.]

kristen

But wait! I don't understand why a car would be an award for radio. Just help—help me make that leap.

jesse

That was—I mean, it's the same as, "Why is an astronaut the award for an MTV?" [Beat.]

robert

Touché.

kristen

Touché!

john

Hang on, Jennifer Marmor's popping up in the chat here to say— [Kristen laughs.] —she won Local Hero in that same paper, similar tactic. [Kristen gasps.] Wooow. [Jesse, Robert, and Kristen laugh.] Well!

jesse

That's great.

john

Double Woody-winners here in the MaxFun family. [Inaudible.]

jesse

Shout-out to the editor of the Metro Santa Cruz, Steve Palopoli, who was like, "Yeah, I mean, it's fine with me! I think it's fun!" [Everyone laughs.] Okay. Here's something from Jason: "My friends Erica, Bill, and Michael have an ongoing group text chat. In early June of this year, Michael asked the group to settle a bet as to whether a cheesecake is a cake or a pie."

john

Oh, boy.

jesse

"I know what you're thinking, but that's not the dispute. Bill and I gave our opinions, and a vigorous debate ensued. Disappointingly, Erica remained silent throughout the exchange. Despite gentle, periodic reminders that she should take a stand, she's taken the cowardly approach, and has not divulged her opinion. Recently, a dispute arose as to whether a corndog is a tamal, and yet again, she failed to reveal a point of view. Honesty is an important pillar of friendship, and I worry what effect continued silence will have on the group dynamic."

john

[Laughs.] Oh, brother.

jesse

"I'm asking Judge Hodgman to order Erica to reveal her true opinions on these and future dumb disputes and disagreements."

john

Alright, first of all—

jesse

Hodgman, you haven't talked for 20 seconds, you liar! [John laughs.]

kristen

What kind of honesty is that?!

john

I know. Well, alright. We'll get to all of the levels of Jason's wrongness.

jesse

I thought we were friends.

john

But first of all, I noticed you pronounce what I would have said "tamale" as "tamal." Is that the correct pronunciation?

jesse

"Tamal" is the singular.

john

Oh, okay, gotcha!

robert

Hmm.

jesse

Yeah.

kristen

Whoooa!

john

Well, just—so if I said a true thing, which is, "You just reminded me of the frozen tamales I have at my house that I'm gonna have for dinner tonight, yum yum," that would be okay?

jesse

You'd be fine.

john

Alright.

kristen

And then we'd be like, "We didn't put any tamales in Frozen." [Beat.] [John and Kristen laugh.]

robert

Mm. Yeah. [Laughs.]

kristen

Frozen 3, maybe.

john

Oooh, you know what? Just—

robert

We put one tamal. [Kristen laughs.]

john

Yeah.

robert

In Frozen 3.

kristen

One tamal.

john

That's right, don't even—don't even flip the cushion on that one. That's great. [Robert and/or Kristen laugh.] That was an amazing—amazing bow—amazing—I don't even know how to make a bowling metaphor for what you just did. That was great.

jesse

Yeah.

john

Great, great, great. So, but here. Let's get—

jesse

John, we're talking to the people that thought of the ballrooms with—but no balls. [Robert and Kristen laugh, Jesse stifles laughter.] These people are geniuses.

john

That's right. "Unmeltable Me," though, you would have had the wrath of DreamWorks on you, wouldn't you?

jesse

Oh, it's mostly—not exclusively, but mostly about Minions. [Kristen laughs.]

john

[Stifling laughter] Right, okay.

robert

[Chuckles.] Oh, right!

kristen

"Unmeltable Me" was to set up how Olaf had a permafrost, so we didn't have to animate his own personal flurry through an entire movie. So...

john

Ohhh! Interesting.

robert

And they realized they didn't need a entire song for that.

kristen

Right.

john

[Laughing] No.

kristen

Now there's just a line where Anna says, like, "Enjoying your new permafrost?"

john

Yeah. We'll just call that a goof! [Kristen and/or Robert laughs.] "Just put in one line—[stifles laughter] to keep off the—"

robert

Sometimes you write a whole song—

john

Yeah.

robert

—and you find out that it was a goof.

john

"Yeah, just put in a line to explain how we didn't wanna animate this thing, just to get the goof patrol off our backs." [Robert and Kristen laugh.] That's right. So, okay, here's the thing. Bobby and Kristen, you may or may not know that I made a decision a long time ago—couple of years ago—that I was no longer gonna hear these "Is a hotdog a sandwich?" types of disputes, and that's why Jason's being so defensive. He's like, "This is—the dispute isn't whether or not a cheesecake is a cake." I don't wanna hear them anymore, because they're usually just a trap. Usually laid by some guy, usually named Jason or something. [Bobby chuckles.] Who just wants to show how clever he is by proving a pizza is a taco, or something similarly offensive. And now this time Jason proved he's so extra, extra, extra clever by hiding his food fight inside the bogus Trojan Horse of shaming his soon-to-be-ex-friend Erica for not texting him back fast enough. But you know what? I'll take the bait. Kristen and Bobby, let's do this. Is a cheesecake a cake, or a pie? [Pause.]

kristen

Oh... I—

robert

Sometimes it has a crust, right? Sometimes it has like a little graham crackers or something on the bottom.

john

It's always gonna have a crust on the bottom. Otherwise it's a—just a custard.

kristen

But some cakes have that already. Some cakes have the graham cracker bottom. To me, in order for something to be a pie, it has to have a hard pastry shell that you've put some sort of wet something inside of.

john

Correct. Yes.

kristen

Which is why sometimes chicken pot pie isn't really chicken pot pie. Like, sometimes it's just—

john

It is al—but it is—it is always wet. And it is gross.

kristen

It's al—it's— [Kristen and Robert laugh.] Sometimes they just try and bake a bunch of pastry on top of like, chicken stew.

john

Right.

kristen

And I'm like, "Thaaat's not chicken pot pie."

john

No, that's a chicken pot crumble.

kristen

Yes! [Kristen and Robert laugh.] Exactly! Exactly! That's why he's Judge John Hodgman.

john

Alright. So we're in agreement that a cheesecake is a cake.

robert

Yeah.

john

Jesse Thorn, do you agree or disagree?

jesse

Yeah, a cheesecake is a cake made in a pie-like manner.

john

Right. And a corndog, is it a tamal? Is it a tamal?

jesse

No! Come on! Give me a frickin' break. [Kristen and Robert laugh.]

john

Absolutely correct.

jesse

This is—both of these go directly to your overarching ruling in the hotdog/sandwich debate. Which is it doesn't matter what flowchart you make. If the answer is obvious, the answer is obvious. If I went to somebody and said, "Can you get me some tamales? Can you go to Mama's Tamales, right by Maximum Fun Headquarters in Westlake, Los Angeles, and get—pick up some tamales?"

john

[Whispering] I can't wait to have those tamales.

jesse

And you came back with corndogs, I'd have to punch you square in the nose! [Everyone else laughs.] Square in the nose is where I'd punch ya!

kristen

Break his glasses...

jesse

I'm not a puncher, John, but I'd have to! Yeah.

john

No. Jesse—Jesse Thorn would never punch one of his employees in the nose.

jesse

I wouldn't.

john

Is that right, Jennifer Marmor? She's shaking her head.

jesse

No, I wouldn't send one of my employees to get me tamales, either. That would be...

john

She's shaking her head. No, that's right. That's not how things work at MaxFun.

jesse

No. Egalitarian.

john

So I think that Erica is not writing back to Jason because A, she knows she's correct. Cheesecake is a cake. And a corndog is a corndog, and it is distinct from tamales. Also she probably values her time. [Stifles laughter.] That's what—

kristen

That's—that was my point to this question.

john

Right?

kristen

Which is—okay. Is Erica a working mom in a pandemic? Because a working mom in a pandemic cannot even find time to go to the bathroom.

john

Right.

kristen

They are—they have lost hours and hours of sleep just trying to procure groceries and antibacterial wipes. Then, chances are they have some sort of sick pet. Uh, I'm just feeling it for Erica. Erica does not have time to answer these disputes! She needs a yoga class!

john

I'm 100% with you, but I am going to venture... a guess. That Erica and Jason and their friend group who share this text chat may not necessarily be parents. They may actually be people in their twenties. Here's why, uh, I'm the world's greatest detective. A, they have what is called a friend group. [Everyone else laughs.] Which none of us ever had in our lives. B, they have a regular text chat, which is also a thing for younger people.

jesse

As a person in my thirties, I know exactly what you're talking about, John. When you're in your twenties, you have a group of friends that's like, people who all go to Central Perk to sit together and enjoy a cup of coffee.

john

Yes!

jesse

In your thirties, you have singular friends, and those are people who you spy on in their alley. [Robert and Kristen laugh.]

john

That's exactly right. Now, see, you understand!

jesse

Yeah.

john

In your forties you don't care anymore, and in your fifties you never go outside.

jesse

Take it from my high school buddy, Jimmy Stewart. [Laughs.]

john

There you go. [John, Kristen, and Robert laugh.] Well, to be fair, both of his legs are broken, 'cause he fell outta that window.

jesse

[Laughs.] Yeah. Yeah.

john

At the end of Rear Window. So— [Robert and Kristen laugh, John stifles laughter.] I appreciate that people like what they like. Right? That there—there're people who really enjoy coming up with pointless semantic debates to argue endlessly. And it goes back to—the whole history of Judge John Hodgman has involved them, and some of them quite famously and charmingly! Like the two guys who used to fight about if a machine gun is a robot or not. And that's fine. You—Jason, you can like what you like, and have this fun on your text chat. It's not for me anymore, but it's fine that you do it. But what I've discovered is that the people who do like to bring up these sort of semantic debates around "Is a hotdog a taco?" or whatever. They tend to be young people in college, or younger people who—whose college are not too far in the rearview mirror. And who desperately want to be back in college, and feel that special collegiate illusion that time is endless, and all you have to do is think about these dumb things to fight about, and everyone has to care about what you think. Which is done. Over. We all know that that's over with now. Also, let's face it, it's mostly dudes who fight about this stuff. So for Erica, for whatever reason, whether she is a harried mom in a pandemic, whether she has other responsibilities, whether it's that she know—she's not a mom, but she knows she's right and she values her time—she's over this! Jason and friend group. Let her be in your friend group. Let her like what she likes, which is not writing back to you. And let me like what I like, which is saying, "Don't come on my podcast again trying to trick me into talking about cheesecakes and cakes and pies!" [Someone laughs.]

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[Three gavel bangs.]

jesse

CK and C&P. [John snorts, Robert and Kristen laugh.]

john

Very good. VG, very good.

jesse

Let's take a quick break. We'll be back with our guests, Kristen Anderson-Lopez and Bobby Lopez, in a moment.

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[Three gavel bangs.]

promo

Music: Jaunty swing music plays. Annabelle Gurwitch: Hi. Are you someone who thinks that when one door closes, another one opens? Laura House: Someone who always sees the light at the end of the tunnel? Annabelle: If you answered yes to one or both of these questions, good for you! Laura: We are not those people. Annabelle: Nope! I'm Annabelle Gurwitch, and I'm a "You know that other door opening? It probably leads to a broom closet" kind of person. Laura: And I'm Laura House! When I see a light at the end of the tunnel, I assume it's a train! Headed right toward me! Annabelle: Laura and I have created a brand new podcast for people like us! It's called Tiny Victories. We're sharing personal tiny victories, or things we've read or seen that inspire resilience. Laura: So if you're looking for a tiny reason to get outta bed each week, subscribe to Tiny Victories. Annabelle: Available on Maximum Fun, or wherever you get your podcasts! Laura: Let's get tiny! [Music fades out.]

sound effect

[Three gavel bangs.]

jesse

Judge Hodgman, we're taking a break from clearing the docket. Let's talk about what we have upcoming. John, of course, your animated television show with David Rees is available at Hulu.com/dicktown.

john

Yep.

jesse

I've watched it. It is hilarious. It's wonderful.

john

Thank you.

jesse

It's all the humor that you would expect from the great John Hodgman and the hilarious David Rees.

john

[Inaudible.]

jesse

And I think listeners should go out of their way to watch it. If you missed it on TV when it was running as part of FX's Cake, you should watch it now on Hulu, and you don't have to watch any other stuff. You can just focus right in on your best friend and hero, Mr. Judge John Hodgman.

john

Bit.ly/dicktown. Each episode's only 10, 11 minutes long. You can watch the whole ten episodes in—on a Saturday morning with your cereal. But—and I'm glad—thank you, Jesse. But here's the thing. This is the last episode before November 3rd. Voting has been happening now for weeks in most states and commonwealths. And in a few days, it'll all be over. And you know that I've been trying to do something every day this election. I've had fun joining listener Kelsey calling voters in Wisconsin, joining listener Melissa calling voters in Pennsylvania. Calling folks in North Carolina, Dicktown country! Reaching out to voters on behalf of State Representative Rachel Hunt, who's trying to hold onto her state rep seat in house district 103 that she won in 2018 by only 68 votes. Each vote matters. And of course I'll be back with listener Zach and his team of Somervillens up in Massachusetts this Sunday, reaching out to voters in various background states and commonwealths, making sure they have a plan to vote safely and make sure their ballots get counted. Now it's almost done. You know, I first started talking about the election just a few weeks ago, and now here we are at the endpoint. After this, I won't be talking about it anymore. But I am so glad and grateful, during that short period of time, to have been welcomed and trained by these more experienced volunteers, to have reached out by phone and text to make contact during these anxious and lonely days. To find people who share my values, and be reassured by them. And to find people who don't share my values, but are willing to talk about it with me on email, and text, and otherwise.

john

This is the first time in the eight presidential elections in my voting lifetime that I've actually done this work. And I'm sorry that this is the first time. I—I'm sorry I didn't volunteer in all of them. 'Cause it's been great. I'm especially sorry I didn't do more in 2016. So my plug to you is just this: Vote. Obviously. But don't just vote. There's still time left. Please, think of three people in your life who maybe haven't voted yet, maybe need some help making a plan to vote safely, maybe could use a ride to the polls. Did you know that even if you're not registered—even if you missed the registration deadline in North Carolina, which was October 9th, you can still register and vote on the same day, in person, at any early voting location in North Carolina until Halloween! But look, I'm sure you knew that. But I bet you can think of a friend or relation in North Carolina who may not. Reach out to them. Voting rules and regulations are different all over the country. So you would behoove yourself to know what yours are in your life, and if you've got friends and family in other places, just go to IWillVote.com, and you'll find all you need to know about voting procedures in your, or any other, state or commonwealth. IWillVote.com. It's set up by the DNC, but it's all public, vetted information. Just do that. If nothing else, do that. Think of three people. Help them make a plan. And if you wanna do a little bit more, join me on Sunday afternoon at Bit.ly/gogetemzach. G-O-G-E-T-E-M-Z-A-C-H. And I'll be doing the phone banking with the Somervillens again on Sunday. I'll be doing other stuff too, so check my socials to see where else I'll be dropping in.

john

And yeah! One other thing you can do is go ahead and go back and listen to David Rees cry on Election Profit Makers from 2016. Day after election, 2016. Bit.ly/whendavecries. Right? You don't wanna wake up on November 4th wishing you could have done more.

jesse

You know, John, I—because I'm a journalist, I'm—I can't endorse anyone, or any ballot issues. But I can say that beyond the obvious presidential race that has captured a lot of attention, here in California there are a lot of really important thing on the ballot. I'm a Californian, lifelong Californian. I'm sure many Judge John Hodgman listeners are Californians, so I wanted to highlight a couple of things that people should consider, without any endorsement from myself.

john

Please.

jesse

One is, if anyone happens to live in District 6 of Long Beach, California, my good friend from college, Suely Saro, is running for City Council. I truly don't know much about her politics, or even what the local issues are in Long Beach, but I can tell you that she's a actual, real-life Leslie Knope.

john

[Stifling laughter] Mm-hm?

jesse

A—one of the most—the brightest and most caring and most diligent people that I've ever known. You know, first person in her family to go to college. First Cambodian-American to win a primary in Long Beach. She beat an incumbent in her race, and is now in the run-off against that incumbent; in the primary race she beat the incumbent. And she was recently endorsed by Bernie Sanders.

john

Mm-hm!

jesse

So if anybody is—lives in Long Beach, take a look at Suely. And also here in California, there are some really important ballot propositions. And you know, they're almost all very important. There's one that's kind of confusing about kidney dialysis. But they're almost all really, really important. One of them changes property tax rules. That's Proposition 19. It's very hard to raise property taxes here in California because of a ballot proposition from the seventies or early eighties, so that is a very big deal that people should look at very carefully. It's all difficult to impossible for cities to enact rent control, including cities that are going through housing crises, such as my city of Los Angeles. And Proposition 21 would expand the authority of local governments to make those changes. And Proposition 22 would overturn the California law that asks gig economy apps to treat their contractors as employees.

john

Mm-hm!

jesse

The people who they argue are contractors, as employees. Which is to say to, you know, give them the employment protections that employees get. And the—you know, Lyft and Uber and other gig economy, uh, tech companies have put huge amounts of money into this proposition so that they are not obliged to protect the people who are working through their apps as employees. So you can look at that! And consider what you think of that. And, on a non-electoral note, John?

john

Yes?

jesse

I am, this week, on what might be my favorite non–Jesse Thorn MaxFun podcast, Stop Podcasting Yourself.

john

Oh, SPY!

jesse

It is a—it was a life's dream for me to appear on Stop Podcasting Yourself. Many years ago we taped a live episode together in Vancouver that was lost to a recording error. I have been saving an "Overheard," which is their signature segment, in my wallet like a teenager's condom. [John laughs.] For the last, like, four or five years. And we recorded it the other night. It was a lot of fun. Dave and Graham are the funniest, sweetest guys on Earth. And if you're looking for something that will comfort you and make you laugh—

john

Yes.

jesse

—and some new ear friends for this lonely time, you could hardly do better than Stop Podcasting Yourself. And if you like Bailiff Jesse Thorn, uh, you can start with the Bailiff Jesse Thorn episode! If you're ambivalent about me, eh, start with one of the Paul F. Tompkins episodes! [John laughs.] That's what people usually recommend. Certainly he's funnier than I am.

john

Paul F Tompkins, gateway to all podcasts!

jesse

Yeah. But Stop Podcasting Yourself. You should—you should run out and listen to it. You'll love it, and, uh, I'm on the latest episode!

john

I will take a listen to that. Those guys are absolutely lovely and hilarious. Alright, everybody. We've been in it together for a long time. Let's get out there and, uh, vote.

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[Three gavel bangs.]

jesse

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Judge Hodgman, Kristen, Bobby, we have a couple of letters this week commenting on recent rulings. First of all, we heard from longtime MaxFun listeners and supporter GJ Charlotte III.

john

Right. So Bobby and Kristen, last week we heard a dispute between a daughter and her mom who were fighting over the mom's request that when she dies—and she's in good health now. She's in her sixties, very healthy. But down the road, when she passes, she would like her daughter to flush her ashes down a toilet at Walt Disney World. [Laughs.] And I was like, "Which—which—where in the Magic Kingdom?" She says, "Not even in the Magic Kingdom. In a hotel, like maybe the Yacht Club Hotel." Do you know that one? Have you visited Walt Disney—?

crosstalk

Robert: Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah. Kristen: Oh, yeah. We know it well.

robert

And I heard this, um—I heard this last week, the day we recorded this.

john

Oh!

robert

This was a great episode.

john

Oh, so you know it!

kristen

How did you hear it but I didn't? We usually listen together.

john

Uh-oh.

robert

I listened in the morning, sorry. [Kristen laughs.] Oh, god.

john

Uh-oh!

kristen

Oh, it must have been one of those mornings you woke up—

robert

Busted!

kristen

'Cause I was like, "How did we not—how did I not hear this one?" 'Cause we are stans. We are Judge John Hodgman stans.

robert

Yeah.

john

Oh, thank you so much! I appreciate that.

kristen

We look forward to it every single week. And apparently you looked forward to it more. [Laughs.]

robert

Yeah, sorry. Sorry.

jesse

Kristen and Bobby are to Judge John Hodgman as I famously am to Olaf the snowman from Frozen and Frozen 2. [Kristen and Robert laugh.]

john

Good analogy!

jesse

We stan a legend.

robert

God bless you.

john

Well, thank you for listening so... promptly, Bobby! [John, Robert, and Kristen laugh.] You may have heard the moment, while during the taping, where I got mad at myself 'cause I had not thought beforehand to consult our listener GJ Charlotte III, who is a third-generation funeral director! And whom I've met in person at MaxFunCon several times. And guess what? He wrote in, and here's what he had to say about flushing cremains. Just for your information. "Cremated human remains—AKA 'cremains'—have several consistencies." Eurgh. This is creepy. [Robert laughs.] "One is granular. Think kitty litter." Way to maintain the dignity of the human experience. Uh, "The other is powdery, like in ashes. And here's the thing. The ashes will float on top of the water and not sink." GJ says, "This came up when a client tried to sprinkle his loved one in a pond, and the ashes left a slick on top of half the water. They then proceeded to run their boat back and forth through the spreadings to sink them. But then when they came out of the water, the boat was covered in cremains. And they rinsed their boat off, and the whole affair was a mess." [Jesse laughs.] That does sound horrible. So on balance, Kristen and Bobby, if you're thinking about this, I don't know whether you would like to do the Yacht Club, or some other part of Walt Disney World— [Kristen laughs quietly.] —but flushing cremains, between clumpy litter consistency and floating ashes, I think flushing cremains is not probably a good idea.

kristen

I'm thinking the lagoon! Like, they—the lagoon, where the big alligators all live. There—it's got a nice big surface. I think it gets—it gets, you know—

robert

For the ashes to just float on top of?

kristen

For a while! Until, like, a big afternoon thunderstorm comes. 'Cause the lagoon is very close—it's—it connects the Yacht Club, and the Grand Floridian, and the Polynesian, as well as Epcot.

robert

But the mom wanted her remains to go down the drain into the water treatment and then be recycled as water to water the flowers in the parks.

john

Yeah, she didn't wanna feed no gators! [Robert and/or Kristen laugh.] She wanted to water flowers!

jesse

I say we mix it in with some gator meal. [Kristen and Robert laugh.]

john

Well—[laughs].

kristen

I didn't realize she wanted to water flowers. Well, that's a completely other thing! Like, why don't you just go right to the—?

robert

The flowers.

kristen

Right—or the reservoir?

robert

Yeah.

john

You're gonna love this episode, Kristen, when you finally— [Kristen and Robert laugh.] When you finally get around to it. But—[laughs]—I'll tell you what. The—GJ suggests another method. Which is mixing the cremains with epoxy. Which I guess is something that you know how to do if you're a funeral director. He says, quote: "It's easier and less suspicious to drop a quote-unquote 'stone' into a body of water than scatter a small powdery bag over its surface." So... I don't wanna spoil anything for you, Kristen, but my recommendation to this mom and daughter was that when the mom passes away—and I hope that's not for many, many years, and I hope that it is as peaceful as possible—and she is cremated, that the cremains be mixed with a bag of pennies, and the daughter drop the pennies, at subsequent visits to Walt Disney World, into the wishing well next to the castle. But now I'm thinking maybe she should just mix up the cremains with epoxy, and get some custom-made epoxy mom pennies made. [Kristen laughs quietly.] You know what I mean?

robert

Mm-hm.

john

Like in a mold. Like laser-free mold.

jesse

Now I'm thinking she should mix it up with some epoxy and just redo her bathroom! [John snorts, Robert laughs.]

john

Well... maybe redo a—maybe re-caulk a bathroom at the Yacht Club! That would maybe be another option.

jesse

Mm-hm. [Kristen laughs quietly.]

john

Alright. Anyway, that's just a follow-up on that, and we have one more follow-up to go, and then we'll—

jesse

Yeah, we have a correction to make regarding the movie Monster House, as mentioned in our recent episode, "Brush with the Law."

john

Right. A longtime listener named Robert Pettler—and I'm saying his last name for a reason. He wrote in to say that he was listening while jogging, and literally stopped in his tracks. Oh, Bobby, were you listening while you were jogging?

robert

No, that would not have happened. [Kristen laughs.]

john

Alright. I don't think it's—I don't think that's the traditional way that Judge John Hodgman listeners take in this piece of culture. [Robert and Kristen laugh.]

robert

Not this one.

john

So good—good for you, Robert. [Laughs.] Listening while jogging, and then literally stopped in his tracks when I mentioned Monster House. Because he is married to one of the writers of Monster House!

robert

Huh.

john

Now, as you may recall, listeners, I mentioned that that movie was written by Dan Harmon of, uh, Community, and, uh, an animated show that is not Dicktown by me and David Rees. It's written by Dan Harmon and Rob Schrab. So, Kristen and Bobby. Here's some movie trivia! Which writer of Monster House is Robert Pettler married to? You wanna guess?

crosstalk

Kristen: The other Pettler. Robert: It's not Dan Harmon, is it?

kristen

No! It's—he's got a—he's got a wife!

robert

Right.

kristen

Um, and I wanna say her—

robert

Rob Schrab.

kristen

[Laughs.] No. [Searching for words.]

robert

Hm?

kristen

His wife! Is something Pettler.

robert

Oh. Oh—oh. Oh!

kristen

Right?

robert

Hm?

john

Hmm? [Kristen and Robert laugh.]

kristen

Here. [Inaudible]

john

Kristen, you're riiight! It was a set-up! It was like a—it was like that riddle. [Robert laughs.] Where the—

kristen

It's Mrs. Pettler!

john

The surgeon—it was a riddle, like, where the surgeon couldn't work on her son because she was unprofessional or some—I don't even know what it was. It was a trick question! 'Cause there was a third writer, that I didn't know about!

robert

Ohhh!

john

Pamela Pettler!

kristen

Pamela Pettler!

robert

Ohhh.

john

Pamela Pettler! Was that final writer, brought in after Dan and Rob Schrab had turned in their draft and moved on with their lives. And I truly, truly—

robert

She punched it up.

john

—feel terrible, and I apologize for Pamela Pettler erasure. Because there are so many people who work on scripts who don't get recognized as working on scripts, and it's really—that's—was a really bad thing for me to do. So I apologize. I'll point out that Pamela Pettler also contributed to the screenplays of The Corpse Bride and the new Addams Family animated movie. You could have a all–Pamela Pettler Halloween movie festival this weekend if you wanted.

robert

Sounds good!

kristen

At Dana Gould's house!

jesse

I like that Pamela Pettler is a goth doctor!

john

Yeah!

jesse

For scripts!

john

Goth doc! [Robert and Kristen laugh.]

jesse

I like that she has—she has a lane here!

john

Yeah! Right?

jesse

You can just bring her in at the end to goth it up a little bit!

john

Yeah!

robert

"It's not spooky enough!"

jesse

Yeah!

crosstalk

Kristen: "Let's Pamela Pettler this thing." Robert: "Let's call Pam!" Yeah!

john

Yeah, sprinkle some of that cozy goth over this.

jesse

Yeah.

john

So Kristen and Bobby, and Jesse, as we head into Halloween weekend, aside from your Pamela Pettler film fest, are there any Halloween traditions or movies, or TV shows that you're gonna watch this weekend?

kristen

We usually dress up as Ghostbusters.

john

Yeah.

kristen

'Cause our house looks a little bit like the Ghostbusters fire station.

john

Ooh!

kristen

And also because we bought the costumes like five years ago, and they're always there. And—

john

[Inaudible.]

robert

And we hang out a sign sometimes, just the—the Ghostbusters sign.

john

Yeah!

robert

And it makes it look even more like it. Yeah.

john

Guess what, uh, you guys? [Laughs.] I, uh—I—based on that description alone, I have triangulated your address. Get ready for me to look into your windows! [Robert, Kristen, and Jesse laugh.] And maybe I'll watch you watching one of my favorite scary movies, The Strangers. Kids? Don't watch The Strangers. Adults, watch The Strangers. It's scary.

robert

Hm.

kristen

You could watch us listening to you.

john

[Laughing] Aw. [Kristen laughs.]

jesse

I've spent most of my life assiduously avoiding all scary movies. But I did watch that movie The Lighthouse last year.

john

Hmm.

jesse

Uh, where Robert Pattinson and Willem Dafoe, uh, fart and go insane. And, um, man, it is amazingly good. It is spectacularly goo—like, it is so—you can't imagine how successful a film can be on its own terms until you have watched The Lighthouse, a movie about two men drinking lamp fuel, going insane, farting on each other, and fondling ivory mermaids. It is truly—and then they get cursed by a seagull. Oh my goodness, it is an amazing movie. [John snorts, Kristen or Robert laughs.] And they talk in a crazy, old-timey talk the entire time perfectly credibly. Oh, it is wonderful.

john

I can't wait to watch that movie and be like, "Mm. That brand of lamp fuel was not actually available—" [Everyone else laughs.] "—that particular year, due to a lamp fuel shortage."

jesse

Caused a different kind of insanity? [Laughs.]

john

Yeah, that's—

robert

The glass refilled itself! [John and Kristen laugh.]

jesse

I kind of feel like in its own way, the lighthouse in that movie—the lamp in the lighthouse, which is kind of a light-giving godhead in the cosmology of the film—is sort of like... in its—again, in its own way, in the context of the film, kind of an analogue, or at least the flip-side, of Olaf's role in the Frozen films.

john

I knew it. Of course I knew it. [Kristen and Robert laugh.] I knew it. And look, you know what?

jesse

Lighthouse lamp! We stan a legend! [Robert and Kristen laugh.]

john

Jesse Thorn puts a button on it. We're all button putter-onners! We all have buttons that we wanna put on this thing! I got 15 other buttons that I wanna put on this discussion of the thing. But I'm gonna let it stand. I'm gonna let it stan with our stan of Olaf. And by the way, we stan the legends Kristen Anderson-Lopez and Robert, AKA Bobby, Lopez! Living over there in the Ghostbusters house. I'll see you later! Watching my— [Kristen and Robert laugh.] I'll watch you listening to my podcast!

kristen

Listening to your podcast!

john

Twice a day! Yeah!

kristen

[Laughs quietly.] Bobby gets up early to do it first.

john

That's right.

robert

Gonna listen to this one.

kristen

Yeah.

john

Thank you so much for being with us, and helping us dispense so much justice today!

kristen

Thanks for having us! I really appreciated it. And I also really appreciated the moment that you almost called me Kristen Ampersand-Lopez, and I'm gonna go with that from now on. [Jesse and Robert laugh, Kristen stifles laughter.]

john

Did I?

kristen

"Kristen Ampersand-Lopez!"

john

I'm sorry about that. I do [inaudible]

kristen

No, no! I was like—

robert

That's a new—we haven't heard that one. That's good.

kristen

I haven't heard that! And that was brilliant! And I'm going with that from now on.

john

That could be—that—I mean, I'm sure you guys already have a LLC or a loan-out company, but that could be your corporation.

kristen

That's a great idea!

john

Kristen Ampersand-Lopez. [Kristen and Robert laugh.] You know, maybe change it up.

kristen

I'm into it.

john

Do you have anything coming up, or that—or an issue, cause, or product that you wanna talk about?

kristen

Obviously, everyone needs to vote. Everyone needs to vote.

john

Yeah.

kristen

Get out and vote.

robert

Vote, vote, vote.

kristen

And we've got something that's going to be coming out very, very soon, but we're not allowed to say that we're involved yet.

john

Mm-hm.

robert

But it's been announced.

kristen

But it's been announced.

robert

But we can't talk about it.

kristen

And it'll be on Disney+. But—but we must obey the Mouse. 'Cause the Mouse feeds us.

john

Yes.

robert

Or they'll flush us down a toilet. [Kristen and Robert laugh.]

john

Oh! Is it a reboot of Flushed Away? [Robert and Kristen laugh.]

kristen

Anyway, we're—it's been the most fun project we've worked on in a really long time, and it's coming out soon! And if you like superheroes...

robert

Oh, yeah.

kristen

...uh, you will like this.

john

Ah! Well, watch the skies for Disney+ announcements involved Kristen Ampersand-Lopez. [Someone laughs quietly.] That's like your Bennifer joint name now, as far as I'm concerned. [Kristen and Robert laugh.]

kristen

Ampersand-Lopez, I'm into it.

john

Yeah.

jesse

The docket is clear. That's it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman. Our thanks to our friends Kristen Anderson-Lopez and Bobby Lopez for joining us today. Our producer is the ever-capable, uh—what was it that you won, Jennifer? Local hero? [Jesse, John, and Kristen laugh.] The great local hero, Jennifer Marmor. Follow us on Twitter at @JesseThorn and @hodgman. We're on Instagram at @judgejohnhodgman. Make sure to hashtag your Judge John Hodgman Tweets #JJHo, and check out the Maximum Fun subreddit at MaximumFun.Reddit.com to discuss this episode. Submit your cases at MaximumFun.org/jjho, or email hodgman@maximumfun.org. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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About the show

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