Transcript
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
jesse thorn
Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorn. With me, as always, Judge John Hodgman. Before we get into the courtroom for this week's case, it's MaxFunDrive! The final week of the MaxFunDrive. You might have been spacing out during our previous MaxFunDrive messages, and not realized that Maximum Fun is primarily supported by our members. Folks who go to MaximumFun.org/join and support our shows directly. And that includes Judge John Hodgman! This isn't an advertiser-driven show. This is an audience-driven show. And it's been a really tough year for all of us, and for those of you who are in a position to join us, right now... we'd be very grateful if you did.
john hodgman
Yeah. I echo O Bailiff, My Bailiff, and friend Jesse Thorn's message of thanks to those of you just for listening. Giving us the gift of allowing us to keep you company during some very hard, and confusing, and uncertain times that are continuing. MaxFunDrive is about... driving some funds to MaxFun. But it's also a time of year that's about us getting a chance to reconnect with you, the listeners. Share special bonus content with you. Remind you—and remind us—why MaxFun is so special: because it is made possible directly by your support during MaxFunDrive and throughout the year. And for that, I say thank you. And that support may only take the form of dropping us a line and saying thanks, which lots of people have been doing. Or telling another person to have a listen. That's more than enough. But if you are in a position to join for the first time, or to upgrade your membership, we make it as quick and easy as possible. Just go to MaximumFun.org/join. That's MaximumFun.org/join. And you'll also see there all of the thank-you gifts that we're offering at each and every level of membership. You know, you start at just $5 a month, you get all of the great bonus content over the years, which is now a pretty large library. Including the famous supercut of Jesse Thorn laughing at different pictures of different dogs and cats, which is great. Really a tonic for the ears at this time. At $10 a month, you get to choose a cool enamel pin designed by Megan Lynn Kott for your favorite show. You'll also have the option to purchase other pins for other shows as you like, for a little bit of money, and that money goes to charity.
john
At $20 a month you get the MaxFun custom game pack, with MaxFun dice in a velvet bag. MaxFun dice in a velvet bag?! And of course, at the Leadership Squad level or above, if you join or upgrade at that level in support of Judge John Hodgman and send me via email at hodgman@maximumfun.org your receipt, I will very happily and gratefully mis-pronounce your name in a thank-you message that I will post to Instagram. And I've had a great fun doing that, as always, every year! And if you get your upgrade or membership in before the end of MaxFunDrive this week, I'll make sure to thank you by mis-pronouncing your name on the Internet. We'll get 'em all done. So thank you for that. Again, that's MaximumFun.org/join.
jesse
Now! This week's case: "Animal Crossing Examination." Kelly brings the case against her wife Maureen. They both play the video game Animal Crossing: New Horizons. Kelly says that Maureen is adept at earning bells, which are the game's currency. Kelly would like Maureen to share her profits. Maureen is opposed. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one can decide.
sound effect
[As Jesse speaks below: Door opens, chairs scrape on the floor, footsteps.]
jesse
Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.
sound effect
[Door shuts.]
john
"Listen to me, Coppertop! We don't have time for Twenty Questions!" ...That's it! Bailiff Jesse Thorn, swear them in.
jesse
Kelly and Maureen, please raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever?
kelly
I do.
maureen
I do.
jesse
Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the narrow range of fruit trees he owns? [Multiple people laugh.]
kelly
I do!
maureen
I do.
jesse
Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.
john
That's gotta be an Animal Crossing reference, correct, Bailiff Jesse Thorn?
jesse
Yeah. I can't say that I've played Animal Crossing since... my senior year of college, 2003, with my friend Nathaniel Chapman.
john
Mm-hm.
jesse
In our apartment in the beach flats in Santa Cruz, California, but I remember it was really important to have different kinds of fruit trees.
john
You need different kinds of fruit trees in this life! Kelly and Maureen, you may be seated.
sound effect
[Chairs scrape.]
john
For an immediate summary judgment in one of yours' favors, can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered this courtroom? Kelly, let's start with you.
kelly
Is that from The Matrix? Or one of the movies? [Laughs.]
john
"Is that from The Matrix, or one of the movies?" More a question than an answer. [The litigants laugh quietly.]
kelly
It feels like I remember hearing "Coppertop" from there, but it's been a long time.
john
Mm-hm! Okay. Shall we say The Matrix, or one of the Matrices?
kelly
Yeah. One of the many Matrices, yes.
john
One of the Matrices.
kelly
Mm-hm.
john
Eh, I'll—I'll allow that.
jesse
Coppertop, maybe, was Cornel West's character in Matrix 2? [John snorts.]
kelly
Mm. [Laughs.]
john
They had a—they had an underground rave... Maureen. What is your guess?
maureen
Yes. I have no idea. I did not prepare for this.
john
There's no way to prepare! [The litigants laugh.] Because you know why? I'm like a trickster! I'm like a tanuki! I'm like a Tom Nook, a Japanese raccoon dog! Tricking you! Always mixing it up. There was nothing you could guess. [Maureen laughs quietly.] You wanna guess one anyway?
maureen
I'm gonna go for specifics with The Matrix 2 since she said The Matrix, [laughs] in case you don't give it to her for being a general trilogy.
john
I love specificity. Did you mean to say The Matrix 2... Reloaded? Or The Matrix?
maureen
Uh, 2 Reloaded. I'm gonna go for the middle one.
john
I see. Because I'm here at WERU, up here in Orland, Maine. In a hermetically sealed room. Looking through a cloudy glass window at Joel Mann, our summertime stoic producer up here. How are you, Joel?
joel mann
I'm doing very well, Judge.
john
Right, so we're adapting to some new audi—not only a whole new world of social distancing, but also some new audio tech here as we record up here. Did you hear Maureen say The Matrix 2: Reloaded, or just The Matrix?
joel
Just The Matrix.
john
Yeah, that's what I heard, too. [Laughs.] I mean, I heard not "2." I only heard The Matrix. Because guess what? Kelly and Maureeen! You guessed The Matrix, you're both right! [The litigants laugh.]
kelly
We both win!
john
You cancel each other out! But even if only, Kelly, you had guessed The Matrix, and Maureen, you had guessed The Matrix 2: Reloaded... [One of the litigants laughs.] I still would not have given it to Kelly. Do you know why? Kelly and Maureen?
maureen
No.
john
'Cause you didn't name the characterrr!
kelly
Ohhh.
john
Look. There are a lot of Matrix quotes.
kelly
Mm-hm.
john
Long, recognizable ones. Kelly, I applaud you. [Kelly laughs.] For remembering that term, "Coppertop." Which is a reference to the fact that Neo—Keanu Reeves, as we all know, in the Matrices... begins life in the simulation. He doesn't realize that he is a human battery. So they call him Coppertop. But who calls him Coppertop? Kelly or Maureen? Going once, going twice... No sale.
kelly
Morpheus? [Maureen laughs.]
john
Nooo! Switch!
maureen
Ohhh. That makes sense!
john
Minor character! Yeahhh! Switch! Like Nintendo Switch.
kelly
Mm-hm.
john
Which is what you play Animal Crossings on.
kelly
Ohhh, that's so clever.
john
See?
kelly
Mm-hm.
john
And what I did not learn, Kelly and Maureen... and this is a short quote, but this is a long explanation. [Laughs.] But I did not know until I was frantically coming up with a cultural reference in the dirt parking lot of WERU here in Orland, Maine—89.9 Blue Hillet, 99.9 Bangkor, and online at WERU.org—I did not know that the character Switch, portrayed in The Matrix by Belinda McClory, was called Switch because they had different genders inside The Matrix and out. At least as originally scripted.
kelly
Oh, wow!
john
Yeah, I know! Cool, right?
kelly
That's so cool!
maureen
That's so cool!
john
Yeah! It may—I mean, it's—why not—I mean, well, we know why not. It was 1999.
kelly
Yeah.
john
Warner Brothers freaked out. [John and one or both litigants laugh.] Couldn't handle it. But I mean, within the world of The Matrix, it would make a million times sense that you would have a character who, as scripted, Switch was gender-assigned-at-birth male in the real world of the Nebuchadnezzar, like, underwater spaceship or whatever it is.
kelly
Mm-hm.
john
But in the simulation, switched to present as female. And Warner Brothers said, "Uhhh... No!" [Stifles laughter.] Booo. But in any case, I'm sure they would do it differently now. That was the origin—it was just so fascinating! So anyway, here we are. This is not about The Matrix. This is about Animal Crossing. Who comes to my court to seek justice? Maureen or Kelly?
kelly
I do. Kelly.
john
Kelly, what is the nature of the injustice that you face?
kelly
Well, Your Honor, back in March when Animal Crossing: New Horizons was released—
john
Yes.
kelly
—my wife Maureen and I both purchased copies of it. We're both very big gamers. We actually met gaming.
john
Mm-hm.
kelly
And we decided to have our own islands, but they would be, like, sister islands! So we decided to help each other out as we built these islands. At the same time, [stifles laughter] we ended up coming down with COVID—
john
Whoa!
kelly
—very shortly after we bought the game, so the game became very important to us. It was the only thing that we could do from our beds for the... month that we were very, very, very sick.
john
I am so sorry to—I mean, obviously Animal Crossing: New Horizons has been important to a lot of people's lives during this time of social isolation and staying at home. Never mind having COVID! [One of the litigants laughs.] Would you feel comfortable describing what the experience was like?
kelly
Sure. We had similar experiences, but I'll let Maureen tell her own. I have lupus.
john
Mm.
kelly
So for me, in the beginning, I was like, "Is this a lupus flare?" But I pretty quickly got very sick. I did have some difficulty breathing, and needed an inhaler, and had to use a CPAP machine, which I had never used. Just during the day, to kind of get some oxygen in at times. [John makes a sympathetic sound.] I was one of the first people I knew to get H1N1 back in the day, and at the time, I said, "This is the sickest I've ever been outside of lupus." I would definitely say COVID beat that. It was... very painful as far as the coughing, was very hard.
john
Yeah.
kelly
Difficult to breathe, the headaches, all-over fatigue. It was—it was definitely a very rough illness.
john
For lots of people who get COVID-19 and are diagnosed, you know, who recover at home as you did, more or less, what people don't know is that the recovery is extremely... prolonged.
kelly
Yes.
john
And you're uncomfortable for a very, very long time. That it really takes quite a bit out of you.
kelly
Yes. I would say even now we are still, to degrees, recovering. I still have some difficulty breathing. I still need an inhaler.
john
Right.
kelly
And I would say that I've definitely not gotten my sort of pre-COVID strength back. And of course it triggered a lupus flare, too, so that was fun.
john
Maureen, was your case of COVID as severe, would you say?
maureen
Um, it was not. [Laughs.]
john
Great. I find in Kelly's favor. Thank you very much. This is the sound of a gavel. [The litigants laugh.]
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
maureen
I mean "It was horrible!" No—
john
No.
maureen
Mine was more mild, for sure.
john
Mm-hm.
maureen
I had a lot of joint pain.
john
Yeah.
maureen
I had very, very bad fatigue. I had a lot of gastrointestinal issues and headaches.
john
Mm.
maureen
I had less the shortness of breath, the classic shortness of breath and coughing. Which I think really takes the cake, but it's not the illness Olympics. [Kelly laughs quietly.]
john
And I understand from my briefing here that you are in St. Louis, Missouri.
maureen
That's correct.
john
Yeah. And how is Missouri doing, in your opinion? [Kelly laughs.]
maureen
Hoo... very bad. [One of the litigants laughs.] Governor Parsons is kinda like, "Open it up!" [Kelly laughs.]
john
Ugh.
kelly
Yeah.
maureen
That's how I feel.
john
I've got a message for Mike Parson, Governor of Missouri. You know what Missouri is called, right, Jesse Thorn?
jesse
Oh, what's that, John?
john
The "show me" state. Mike Parson, you got shown! Kelly and Maureen— [Someone laughs quietly.] It's not a joke! [Stifles laughter.] It's not a joke, it's not a hoax.
kelly
Not at all.
john
People are sick and suffering. You got shown. I'm sure he listens to this podcast. [One or both litigants laugh quietly.] Right? Probably that's true. Kelly, Maureen, I'm very glad that you're recovering as best as you can. I hope you're as okay as possible. Thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm glad that you have enough personal, physical, and emotional reserve, having faced this disease, and continuing to face it... I'm glad you have enough emotional and physical reserve to get really petty. [The litigants laugh.] And come on a podcast to fight about Animal Crossing.
kelly
[Laughing] Yes.
john
I'm glad there's still that space in your life. Hey, Joel Mann, you ever play Animal Crossing?
joel
No idea what you're talking about.
john
Okay. Maureen, tell Joel what Animal Crossing is, and why it's so... compelling.
maureen
Okay, Joel. There is tanuki who's gonna give you a loan to build a house, to make friends with the neighboring animals, and they will sometimes give you presents.
joel
Wow.
john
[Laughs quietly.] Joel.
joel
That sounds like fun!
john
Do you know what a tanuki is?
joel
Nnnope.
john
It's a Japanese raccoon dog.
joel
[Laughing] Well, there you have it.
john
Famous in Japanese and Asian folklore in general. Embodied in Animal Crossing by the character of Tom Nook, who is the—kinda... kinda the Godfather of the Animal Crossing world.
maureen
Accurate.
john
He owns a shop. He loans you money, that you have to repay by working for him. And you play—and you can correct me, Maureen and Kelly, where I get it wrong. 'Cause I have not played or seen any of this new Animal Crossing. All of my information goes back to Animal Crossing: City Folk circa 2008 on the Wii. But you play a human living in a open-ended world full of anthropomorphic animals, and basically you build a life for yourself. You get a house, or you get a mortgage for a house from Tom Nook. [Stifles laughter.] Predatory lender. You furnish it with stuff you buy from Tom Nook.
jesse
I mean if he's a tanuki, he's literally a predatory lender, right?
john
[Laughs quietly.] Yeah. That's right. They are, uh, predatory animals. Right? I think they—they seek prey. And they seek high interest rates. Everyone knows, right, Jesse?
jesse
Yeah.
john
Yeah.
joel
And this all happens in Missouri? [The litigants laugh.]
john
Correct.
joel
[Laughing] Okay.
john
Alright, Joel. [Laughs quietly.] Getting a little too feisty across the glass. No, it all happens in the video game! In the video game, you make money—which is called bells; instead of dollars they have bells—by working, and by raising what, Kelly?
kelly
By raising fruit trees, by raising turnips...
john
Mm-hm.
kelly
And in particular, playing the stalk (stock) market. So—
john
[Snorts.] S-T-A-L-K.
kelly
Yes. Yes, Your Honor. So essentially, you purchase turnips from your local turnip vendor every Sunday, hopefully at a good price. Preferably below 100 bells.
john
Mm-hm.
kelly
And then you have two options. You can wait on your island and watch the turnip price fluctuate throughout the week, and hope you get a really good deal. Or you can be bold, and meet other people who are playing Animal Crossing, and see if they have a better deal to sell, and then sell your turnips on their island.
john
So, Kelly and Maureen, the stalk market is kind of at the center of your debate. Correct?
kelly
Yes.
maureen
Mm-hm.
john
Alright. You have separate islands. That is to say, you each have your own sort of world. You are not collaborating. Correct?
kelly
Correct. Not directly, correct.
john
Alright. And so, Kelly, what is Maureen doing in the stalk market that brings you to this court?
kelly
Well, Maureen is very, very good at playing the stalk market.
john
Mm-hm. Buy low, sell high.
kelly
Exactly.
john
Right.
kelly
She immediately dived into that area of the game.
john
Mm-hm.
kelly
She was able to network with other random players, and go onto their islands and sell for very high.
john
Right.
kelly
[Stifles laughter.] She also does something called time traveling. [Maureen laughs.] Which allows her to buy turnips multiple times per week—per our week—and sell them multiple times. So she's a bit of a trickster, as well.
john
Wait a minute, Maureen. Are you a Time Lord? Are you a Doctor Who? [Kelly laughs.]
maureen
I am the Doctor Who of Animal Crossing, yes.
john
What is time traveling in the game?
maureen
It was previously quite frowned upon by the Animal Crossing community, and there was a character who would come yell at you when you'd do it. It's when you change the clock on your console, so for me, I change it on the Nintendo Switch. Because the game operates in real time each day. It's set to your console clock.
john
Uh-huh.
maureen
So I'm like, "Alright. I'm gonna change my clock 'til tomorrow, so that I can play tomorrow today, instead of going to bed like a normal human being."
john
[First word a whispery exhale] Ohhh. So... you're hacking the system.
maureen
Yes.
john
You're putting a glitch in the matrix!
maureen
[Laughs.] Oh, no, it came full circle.
john
You're seeing two cats instead of one! Because, if I understand this correctly, you can only purchase turnips on a certain day. And you're tricking the program into thinking it's that certain day, day after day after day.
maureen
Correct.
john
Correct. Alright! And you say this was previously frowned upon by the Animal Crossing community, which, correct. I would frown—I'm frowning. Sorry. [Maureen laughs.] Frown. If you're a Doctor Who, you're supposed to be out there saving the day, not hoarding turnips. But...
jesse
Yeah, I bet Doctor Who doesn't even have two or three turnips. I'd say maximum, Doctor Who has five turnips. [One of the litigants laughs.]
john
But Jesse Thorn, can I tell you something? [Stifles laughter.]
jesse
Yeah.
john
At some point, Jesse, you and I really should have—maybe we should do this someday for a MaxFunDrive special episode, like bonus content for members only. Because you, Jesse Thorn, are an expert in men's garb.
jesse
Yeah. True.
john
I would really love to sit down with you and hear your opinion and reaction to the clothing of every Doctor Who. 'Cause some of them get a little wacky.
jesse
Yeah. I'm on board for that. Sold.
john
That's good, right? The sixth Doctor Who not only wore sort of—like a cricket sweater and white pants and trainers everywhere. He dressed like a cricket batter all the time. But he also wore a tan jacket with red piping around the lapel, and on the lapel he pinned a stalk of celery. For no reason. [Stifles laughter.]
jesse
Wow!
john
Could've been a turnip! [One of the litigants laughs.]
jesse
That's like... Prince Charles will wear a thistle on his lapel, because he's, uh... King of Scotland, or whatever. [Jesse and John laugh.]
john
Sure.
jesse
I don't know exactly how it works. Sorry, Britons and, uh, citizens of the United Kingdom. But it was a celery stalk. That just indicates that—probably that he likes to make sure he gets his fiber.
john
Yeah. You know what, Jesse, I'm gonna send you a picture of him wearing this celery stalk right now. I just—I can't—and by the way, everybody, stop emailing me. Everyone's time traveling to email me angry letters right now, even though this hasn't even been released yet. [One or both litigants laugh.] 'Cause I said the Sixth Doctor. It was the Fifth Doctor! Sorry! Peter Davison. Stand by one second, Jesse, I'm gonna send you a link.
jesse
Oh, wow.
john
[Laughing] Yeah.
jesse
Wait, this guy's from, uh—is this guy from All Creatures Great and Small?
john
Yesss! He's the junior vet in All Creatures Great and Small!
jesse
So in the television show Doctor Who, does he play Tristan Farnon from All Creatures Great and Small? [John laughs quietly.] But he became—he becomes a Time Lord? Or does he play one of the other characters from All Creatures Great and Small who's become a Time Lord?
john
[Laughs.] The BBC never aired the final episode of All Creatures Great and Small. Because it was too controversial. [Stifles laughter.] Because Tristan was made into a Time Lord at the end of it. It was a tie-in. [Jesse and one or both litigants laugh.]
jesse
Like, "That is not in the books!"
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
jesse
John, let's take a quick break from the case to talk about the MaxFunDrive! We'll be back in the courtroom with more Animal Crossing action, more turnip news, in just a minute. Uh, but first! [Stifles laughter.] Our office staff has collated a few of the comments that we've gotten about the MaxFunDrive. They're always so heartwarming.
john
Yeah!
jesse
Do you have a favorite here, John?
john
Well, I love what ClydeUmney said. "Podcasts have been such a comfort during a pretty remarkably bad year here, the MaxFun network more than most. #JJHo—" That's us! "—brings Clyde wisdom, and empathy, and laughs." And Sarah Anotchmius, @SarahAnotchmius, said that the podcast helps keep her feel balanced, and that we are both funny and wise. "Thanks, Hodgman and Jesse Thorn." I say thank you to you, Sarah, and to you, Jesse. I mean, I mentioned earlier on that the MaxFunDrive is a chance for us all to connect with one another. And this year in particular it's been just very gratifying to hear from people, and appreciate that we're offering at least some welcome distraction from whatever else might be going on in their lives. Truly, if all you can do this year is just send a Tweet out into the world, not only will that be a karmic good feeling for both you and us, but maybe some deranged millionaire will read that Tweet and give MaxFun a hundred gazillion dollars. So, that's enough.
jesse
I know this, John. This has been, for me, pro—I was gonna say "probably," but certainly the hardest year of my life. And one of the things that has made it so hard is that we are—so many of us are facing huge challenges. And... we feel very lonely, in facing them.
john
Yes.
jesse
I know that's how I feel. And you know, that's even though I'm surrounded by my wonderful family. And I know that for me, doing this show is an amazing connection to some people who are special to me, and to new people who I haven't met yet. And it also provides me with this community of wonderful, kind, thoughtful MaxFun listeners and Judge John Hodgman listeners for whom I'm so grateful. It's been a great comfort to me, and listening to MaxFun shows has also been an incredible comfort to me. I was just listening to The Flop House this morning, for example.
john
Yeah.
jesse
And I know that there's probably a lot of folks out there who feel that way, too. And you know, to me, as the person who conceived of MaxFun many years ago, I am very proud that the part of it where I thought, "Maybe this could be a way to connect people, beyond just connecting people with their favorite podcast, or their favorite media outlet, but connect people with each other" feels like it has been the case this year.
john
Yeah.
jesse
And I'm really proud and grateful for that. I know there are a lot of folks out there who are not in a position to support us by becoming a member this year, and we understand that entirely. And we just—we don't want you to feel bad about it, if that's the position you're in. There's lots of stuff you can do.
john
Yeah.
jesse
That doesn't cost any money. Like just talk about liking the show to a friend, or the checker at the grocery store or something. But if you are in a position to become a member, we're very grateful for it. And you can do it at MaximumFun.org/join! It's very easy and very quick.
john
Yeah, one of the ways in which Maximum Fun is unique among podcast networks is that, by design, it really is—started as, and developed even more into, a community of creators and listeners. And you know, one of the things about MaxFunDrive's past, is that it's always been as much about fun as it is about drive. It's always been, for me personally, a chance to really reflect and enjoy the fact that Judge John Hodgman listeners—and indeed, all Maximum Fun podcast listeners—are fun, funny, smart people that I'm glad to have in my life. And this year in particular, as Jesse has said, it's just been... a true honor—"true honor" is a cliche to say, but I'm—it is both true and an honor. To know that you are letting us into your homes and your ears as you drive and work and do chores, and... I don't know how I would have gotten this far into 2020 without you all. And with you, Jesse, and Jennifer. So I'm very, very glad you're here. And thank you just for letting—just knowing that you're out there is truly contribution enough if that's all you can do. And if you're in a position, you can go to MaximumFun.org/join. Or... maybe you wanna bring someone into this community! Because for the first time, we have an opportunity for you to get a subscription for a friend! Help a friend become a member. To gift membership to someone else. You can get a subscription for a friend for one year, and that way both you and the friend can enjoy all the bonus content, and the swag. You can give this to a good friend, a distant friend, a family member who you think might enjoy it, or even someone you've never even met!
jesse
You can give it to an enemy to punish them, if you want to.
john
You can give it to an enemy! ...Joel!
joel
Yes, Judge.
john
Joel at WERU, are you a member of Maximum Fun?
joel
No, but I plan to be.
john
Well, nope, you are now, 'cause I'm gonna gift you a membership.
joel
Well, I'm gonna get a membership anyway and give that to somebody.
john
You know what, pay it forward, exactly!
joel
That's right! Alright.
john
It's a fun new way to bring more people into the community. And obviously it helps support Maximum Fun, and keeps the podcast going. So again, that's MaximumFun.org/join. When you go over there, just check the Anonymous MaxFunster box when filling out the online form, [stifles laughter] and you can give it to someone—to some anonymous person! MaximumFun.org/join.
jesse
Let's get back into the courtroom for more "Animal Crossing Examination."
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
john
Anyway, you're a time traveler, Maureen. You're not using your powers for good. You're using your powers for acquisition. You're hoarding up turnips at a low price, selling 'em at a high price. [One of the litigants laughs.] What was the animal that would come and yell at you?
maureen
He was a mole, I think? He was Mr. Resetti. Like, "reset." Like, "Hey, I caught you resetting your game."
john
[Laughs.] Well, did they take that feature out? Is that now just part of the game? Now that all norms are shattered, and society has basically collapsed, they're like "Do it. Do whatever you need to do"? [The litigants laugh, John stifles laughter.]
maureen
Yeah, I think they were like, "You guys need this." [Someone laughs.] "We're not gonna yell at you anymore." Which we took as permission.
john
And by "we" you mean you, Maureen.
maureen
[Laughs.] I mean me and every other time traveler, because it's quite popular right now to be a time traveler. [Someone laughs.]
john
Well, as long as everyone's playing by the same rules. So Kelly, I don't understand what the dispute is here. Maureen is playing the game her way. Hoarding turnips, time traveling. Sounds like a lot of fun. How is this frustrating you?
kelly
Sure. So at the time, I felt that we were having and sharing a very collaborative Animal Crossing experience, both as a partnership and as people with COVID. [Stifles laughter.]
john
Mm-hm.
kelly
Recovering. And... the first time that she actually made the bells, I will admit, it was with my help. They were very low on my island, and she was able to sort of sell them very high on her island. So that's where she learned the trick.
john
Ohhh. So what you're saying is... turnips—you sold turnips from your island to Maureen at a low price. She turned around, classic pump-and-dump.
kelly
Yes.
john
Sold them for a high price. And she made a lot of bells as a result.
kelly
Yes. And she did give me a portion.
john
That turned her into the Wolf of Turnip Street. [Maureen laughs.]
kelly
It did. It did. And I was, you know, just kind of accepting of it. And I took my portion of the profits, and continued to pay off my mortgage. We then began to where I was able to gather and craft things for Maureen because she couldn't, because partly she was busy making turnips—or buying turnips, and selling them. And so I felt that we had a sort of collaborative experience, much like in our real lives, where we share an income. We do share a lot of the same hobbies.
maureen
Mm-hm.
kelly
As I said, we did meet through gaming. I feel that if she's going to continue to make these acquisitions, which is something she loves to do, and something that I'm not very good at doing, and in fact do not like to speak to strangers on other people's islands—[stifles laughter]—
john
Mm-hm.
kelly
—that she should split some of the profits with me, especially as I am busy creating things for her and finding her things she likes. I don't believe it should be 50%. I will say that.
jesse
What's an example of something that you've created for her that she likes?
kelly
So in the evidence I submitted, you'll see a picture of our Animal Crossing avatars on a shell set. Sort of a pearlescent outside cafe area with a fountain and a table, and it's sort of a cute little area, and I created all of those for her.
john
So we're gonna share these images, obviously, on the show page at MaximumFun.org as well as on our Instagram, at @judgejohnhodgman on Instagram. I just—[laughs]—mm. I just need to... I need to acknowledge the caption of this particular piece of evidence. The caption is, "Important evidence... showing how cute we are in game." [The litigants laugh.] And I—absolutely you have proven your case.
jesse
Yeah. It's definitely adorbs.
john
Yeah. Incredibly cute avatars. But what you're trying to show here, Kelly, is that these pearlescent shells—is that something you made in the game?
kelly
Yes. I made the entire furniture set for her as a gift, or as part of my imaginary, I guess, exchange. [Maureen chuckles, Kelly stifles laughter.] The partnership I believed.
jesse
You basically have your avatar swallow a grain of sand. Then you time travel forward far enough, and then you vomit up one of these shells. [Multiple people laugh quietly.]
kelly
Exactly.
john
Is that true?! [Beat.]
kelly
No.
john
Oh. [The litigants laugh.]
kelly
No, [inaudible].
jesse
That was speculative on my part, admittedly. [Laughs.]
john
So these are two cute—for those listening, these are two very cute, adorable avatars, having a little afternoon hang. By a table made out of an iridescent sand dollar, that was created... by Kelly, in game. And sitting on little beautiful iridescent shelled stools, also created I guess by you, Kelly, right?
kelly
Yes.
john
Right. And whose island are you on? Where are you having this little party, this smile party?
kelly
[Reluctant] It's on Maureen's. This is Maureen.
john
Okay, Maureen. I got it. You're partying on your island. With stuff that Kelly made for you. And you don't wanna give her any bells. You don't wanna share the bells that you've made in the turnip market. Is that correct?
maureen
Well... kind of.
john
Let me ask you a question, Maureen. How many bells you got?
maureen
So I currently have 42 million.
john
Ugh. [Someone snorts. John laughs.] Ugh! [Long sigh.]
jesse
Being a bell millionaire is inherently immoral.
john
[Stifling laughter] Yeah. [One of the litigants cracks up.] Right? I was afraid you were gonna have a billion. [One of the litigants laughs.] Forty-two million, though... Getting there. How many bells do you have, Kelly?
kelly
I currently have a little over one million.
john
This is a disparity. Would you agree, Maureen?
maureen
A little bit.
john
Do you know what I find millionaires—or in this case multimillionaires are really good at doing?
maureen
No, what?
john
Justifying their existence. [The litigants laugh.] And also explaining why they should be rich. [Stifles laughter.] Why should you have 42 million bells, and why should you not share them with your wife Kelly?
maureen
[Laughs.] So I have 42 million bells because once you complete the game and you have completed the content—because they update for different holidays. They're always putting out new content. But when you time travel, you burn through it pretty quickly. So what I'm trying to do to entertain myself in Animal Crossing now is decorate my island. And I've created, like, additional humans to live on the island, and I'm upgrading their houses. So they have, like, a little beachfront cafe, and a little, like, place for my friends to go so they can look at clothes and tell me what clothes they want, and I will send them the clothes.
john
And you're spending bells on this.
maureen
So I'm spending a lot of bells on this.
john
And this is on your island, Maureen.
maureen
And it is on my island.
john
What you're saying to your wife is, "I can't share any bells with you because I'm too busy spending all my bells creating a perfect society without you." [Kelly laughs quietly.]
maureen
Welllll, now, there was—there was an—
john
"I'm creating new friends."
maureen
[Laughs.] There was an incident, Your Honor.
john
Alright.
maureen
Where I decided to redo my island one night. And I didn't wanna lose the things that I had. And I asked if I could store them temporarily on her island, and she did charge me rent. [Multiple people laugh quietly. Jesse laughs out loud.]
kelly
I would like to clarify why I charged rent, if possible. [More laughter.]
john
Alright, Kelly. Go ahead.
kelly
It's because she did not move her items from my island for two weeks. [Stifles laughter.] And it was affecting my in-game rating. [Maureen laughs.] I thought it would make her hurry.
john
It's hard for me to describe the look of confusion... and concern... and even disgust on Joel Mann's face right now. [One of the litigants cracks up.]
joel
I think they should go out to Matinicus and see how many turnips those bells will buy. [One of the litigants laughs.]
john
Talking about Matinicus Island here in Maine?
joel
Yes. Yes.
john
Yeah. That's all they got over there. They're lucky if they have a—a turnip. Matinicus, a very depopulated island in Maine. Very remote. You know, Joel expressed some confusion about why this is a game. [Multiple people laugh.] Since what you're describing's like, "I have to pay my mortgaaage." [One of the litigants laughs.] "She left her stuff in my room for too long, so I charged rent." Like, this whole virtual world is just full of what we would call some of the most mundane real-world problems! Is it fun? Kelly?
kelly
It's actually very fun. I would argue that especially in this time, those mundane problems are kind of nice. [Stifles laughter.]
john
Okay.
kelly
So especially at the time, I would say that it was—it was just sort of bonding, and nice to talk about mortgages, and also to be able to pay them off. As millennials, that's something that both of us have to think about a lot. [Stifles laughter.] Maureen's contracts, her jobs at the time, had been paused due to the pandemic. And I was actually on disability at that time for my lupus.
john
Mm-hm.
kelly
And so it was sort of a tough financial struggle at the time as well, and so I think there was this nice feeling of being able to live a very comfortable virtual life.
john
Yeah. Okay, I gotcha. It's a kinder form... of capitalism. One in which there is the potential to succeed. Would that be fair to say?
kelly
Yes. I would definitely say that it is a much kinder form.
john
One extremely kind form of capitalism... would be no capitalism at all. [Maureen laughs.]
kelly
[Emphatically] Yes.
john
Socialism. Redistributed wealth. Right, Kelly? You're what Ayn Rand would call a moocher. [Kelly laughs.] Maureen's out there moving her money around, playing the market, having the interactions with the strangers—which, by the way, I don't wanna have, either. She's earned these 42—arguably, she's earned these 42 million bells. And now you just wanna confiscate that wealth? [One of the litigants laughs quietly.] Who are you? AOC? [Both litigants laugh.] By the way, I love AOC. Incredible.
kelly
We do, too. [Maureen laughs quietly.]
john
Yeah. Your argument would be, Kelly, that Maureen should give you a percentage of her bells because you're married. Right?
kelly
Also I because I felt that, reflecting our marriage, I was also contributing to the partnership.
john
Right. You're giving her all these iridescent shells! Now, Maureen, do you take value in these iridescent shells? Is this just garbage that you're storing on your island rent-free 'cause you don't wanna hurt Kelly's feelings? [The litigants laugh.]
maureen
That's a great point. I have a lot of your items on my island that I'm not charging you rent for, but just kidding, I love them. They're wonderful. [John snorts.] They bring me joy.
john
Alright. You are getting value. I mean, like, you wouldn't have these shells. 'Cause all you're doing—you're like Lin-Manuel Miranda as Hamilton in Hamilton. And Kelly is like Daveed Diggs as Jefferson. [One or both litigants laugh quietly.] You know, she's creating! You just wanna move your money around. Right? [Both litigants laugh.]
maureen
I will say that since I time travel, I do collect rare materials to make recipes with. And recipes and DIYs are what you get to make the shells. So I'll be, like, a season ahead, like, "Oh, I've got acorns! Would you like an acorn wreath?" So I do sometimes give her things as well.
john
And do you accept, Kelly—do you accept these misbegotten gains?
kelly
[Chuckles.] I do. I admit it. They're very pretty.
john
[Knowingly] Mm-hm.
kelly
And they look very good on my island.
john
Mm-hm. There is no ethical capitalism. [One or both litigants laugh.] Maureen, you're out there cheating! You're cheating. You know that you're cheating.
maureen
Mm-hm.
john
Right?
jesse
Wait, John! I have one.
john
Alright.
jesse
ATAB. All Tanukis Are Bad. [John and one or both litigants laugh.]
john
From where I sit, Maureen, you're out there—you're—it's an accepted cheat at this point, but you're cheating the system. I mean, you are—you're a super capitalist, right? You're just acquiring wealth, and you're using your wealth to gain more wealth, and exponentially you get more and more wealthy. You're using every loophole to your advantage. You're hoarding wealth. From your very wife! Tell me a reason why I shouldn't order an "eat the rich" edict!
maureen
[Laughs.] Oh my gosh, that's so funny, 'cause my flag is actually "Eat the rich." [Kelly laughs.] You have a town flag.
john
Maureen—!?
maureen
It's, uh—
john
You have a town flag that says "Eat the rich" on it?!
kelly
[Laughing] Thank you!!! Ironically, she does.
john
That is pure performative progressivism! [Kelly and/or Maureen laugh.] Rich, eat thyself! [More laughter.] Why do you have a flag that says "Eat the rich"? Are you a Motörhead fan?
maureen
No. Because in real life I'm a pretty big anticapitalist socialist. [Laughs.]
john
Mmmmm.
maureen
But I'm, uh—
john
This is getting delicious. [The litigants laugh.] IRL... you agree that capitalism is a rigged system, perpetuating greater and greater inequality of wealth.
maureen
[Stifling laughter] I do.
john
But when you get on your island... [stifles laughter] you looove hoarding those bells! Don't you?
maureen
[Cracking up] I'm sorry! Hold on! [Recovering] I do.
john
Yes! I appreciate your recognizing that you are under fake oath, and telling the truth! [Maureen laughs.] That's fun. Roleplay is fun! Roleplay is fun. Playing a different version of yourself, maybe one that goes against some of your principles, in a game-like environment? That's a—that's a—an emotional release. I get it.
maureen
Yeah, like when you pick the mean answer in Dragon Age. [Laughs.]
jesse
Yeah, it's like when you pick the mean answer in Dragon Age. That's just what I was thinking.
john
Uh-huh. [Maureen laughs.]
kelly
Yeah!
john
Yeah, Joel, it's like when you pick the mean answer in Dragon Age. You know. [Kelly and Maureen laugh.]
joel
Yeah, Parcheesi.
john
Right. [More quiet laughter from multiple people.] So Kelly, how much bells do you want?
kelly
You know, Your Honor, I'm honestly just looking for a percentage. I don't need 50%. Uh, maybe... 25%.
john
Twenty-five percent... tax.
kelly
Yes.
john
Right? In consideration of shared income IRL. And in consideration of stuff that you make.
kelly
Yes.
john
Mm-hm.
jesse
Just a basic bookie's vig.
john
Yeah. [Laughs.]
kelly
Exactly.
john
Yeah. [Laughs.] Twenty-five percent—you want 25% off the top, right now? Or 25% of what she has, and 25% of everything going forward?
jesse
Yeah, is this an income tax or a wealth tax? [One or both litigants laugh quietly.]
john
Yeah. There we go. Thank you.
kelly
Uh—
jesse
And are you prepared to take the wealth tax all the way to the Supreme Court? [One or both litigants laugh, Jesse stifles laughter.]
kelly
Well, I thought that's where we are now, the Animal Crossing Supreme Court.
john
Ohhh. Who do you think I am, a finger-wagging mole? [The litigants laugh.] Animal Crossing has its own—its own court system! I'm not part of that!
jesse
Judge Hodgman is the court in the court of Sea-man! The man-faced fish that lives inside your Sega Dreamcast. [The litigants laugh.]
kelly
I'm comfortable with a continued portion throughout time. It doesn't need to be every run. Maybe once a month.
john
Once a month you're gonna take 25% of Maureen's wealth? Is that what you're saying? Be specific.
kelly
If we both agree that the services I've provided, and also in the name of our wonderful marriage, yes.
john
Hm. Well, but you don't both agree, right? Maureen, why is 25% confiscatory?
maureen
Because... of the rent incident, I was not under the impression that it was, you know, an arrangement where I was receiving goods for bells. I thought that I was returning that with other goods that I gave her. So... I think it's just—
kelly
Such—
maureen
—taking advantage of the situation. [Stifles laughter.]
john
Did you have a conversation about what it would mean to have different islands when you chose to play separate islands, as opposed to one island?
maureen
Absolutely not.
kelly
The only conversation that we had was... "Boy, I'm sure glad we each have our own console, and that we can play with our own islands any way we want, and decorate them however we want."
john
Mm-hm—
jesse
You guys have two Nintendos?! [The litigants laugh.]
maureen
Yes!
kelly
To be fair, we both had them before we were married.
jesse
But then you got two different Animal Crossings.
kelly
We did. [Maureen laughs.]
jesse
Wow. This is a—John, it's possible that this is the next level in your two beds, two bedrooms argument for married couples! [John laughs.] Two beds, two bedrooms, two Nintendos! [One of the litigants laughs.]
john
Yeah, you're right, Jesse. That isn't the point. Kelly, how does it make you feel when Maureen doesn't share bells with you?
kelly
I admit I'm hurt.
john
Tell me more.
kelly
Well, one thing I will say is that Maureen's parents also play the game.
john
Mm-hm.
kelly
And when I asked them initially about this question, they also said that they share their income, because they have always shared their life together. Which I thought was a very sweet and romantic sentiment, Maureen. And I will say that it hurt my—it hurt my feelings a little bit.
john
How do you respond to that, Maureen? How does that make you feel?
maureen
Uh—[laughs]. Well, my bad, I'm very sorry. [John snorts.] But we have never shared income in any other video game before.
john
Most sincere apology ever, by the way. [One or both litigants laugh.]
maureen
I love you very much. You're the light of my life. If you want some bells, I can give them to you! But just not like... you know, an obligatory every run, 'cause that puts pressure on me.
john
You hear what she's saying, Kelly? You have to beg.
maureen
Yes.
kelly
I do. I hear that. [Jesse and someone else laugh.]
john
Do you share your income in real life?
kelly
Yes, we do.
john
Alright. Share everything else equally, right? Kelly?
kelly
Yes, we do. We even wear the same shoe size.
jesse
But you have two different Nintendos.
kelly
[Laughs.] We do.
john
There is precedent for not sharing certain things. Even wear the same shoe size! This gets adorable and adorabler. [Maureen laughs.]
kelly
Yeah, we share clothes, and shoes, and everything.
jesse
Do you ever dress up like those old lady twins that used to walk around downtown San Francisco, all suited and booted?
kelly
I would like to. I've mentioned that. I used to live in San Francisco, so I would like to do that. [Stifles laughter.]
john
Who are these people, Jesse?
jesse
There were these two lady twins—I'm gonna look it up. [One or both litigants laugh.]
john
Yeah, send me a—send me an image.
jesse
[Audible typing.] "Old..." I'm—I'm Googling "San Francisco old lady twins." They had matching perms—"The Brown twins, Marian and Vivian Brown, were two American identical twin actresses who also appeared on television talk shows and television commercials. They were icons in San Francisco, known as the San Francisco twins!" [John laughs.] "The had identically bright, snappy outfits, and hats atop meticulously coiffed hair." [One or both litigants laugh quietly.] Matching perms. That's the secret. Matching perms.
john
Will you text me an image?
jesse
Yes.
john
Great. I'll look at it in my chambers in a moment. Kelly, unless I were to intercede and order some redistribution of wealth, is your position that you would stop helping Maureen source DIY recipes? That you would stop making shells for her? That you would withhold these goods?
kelly
I'll admit that I would not stop.
john
Right. Right. You just can't help being ground down by this system! Maureen, she loves you! She's gonna make those shells even if you don't give her some bells!
maureen
I know, I'm very lucky.
john
She's making shells for no bells! [One of the litigants laughs.] This is how you treat the love of your life? You hoard up those bells?
maureen
[Laughing] Apparently!
john
Uhhh, if I were—if—
maureen
She made me pay rent! [Maureen and John laugh.]
john
That was one thing! That was one—UGH.
maureen
Do you know how much money she charged me?! [Both litigants laugh.]
john
No, how much?
maureen
[Laughing] What was it?
kelly
Just one million bells.
maureen
Yeah.
john
Should've been 42 million bells. [Maureen cracks up.]
kelly
[Deadpan] I see that now, Your Honor.
john
Maureen, you sound just like an URL millionaire.
maureen
[Laughs.] Oh nooo.
john
Do you know what I mean?
maureen
But it's a video game! [Laughs.]
john
Oh, s—"One of my employees looked wrong at me once, so therefore I will never help them again." Mean. It's like the mean answer from Dragon Age. You picked it. [Kelly laughs quietly.]
maureen
I do pick them sometimes...
john
Yeahhh, I can tell. Alright. So if I were to find in your favor, it would be whatever. You would only give bells to your beloved wife if she asked the right way. [Maureen laughs.] What would be the right way? Maureen, do your imitation of how Kelly should ask you for bells that would work.
maureen
"Hey, babe, I need to build a bridge. Can I have two million bells?" "Okay, sure!"
john
I don't believe that. [One of the litigants laughs quietly.] Don't you want her to be obsequious? Groveling?
maureen
I would not make her do that.
john
So you're just saying if Kelly asked you for a few bells to work on a project, you would invest in that project, like Shark Tank.
maureen
Correct. I just don't like the pressure of being obligated to share, like, every run, is how I feel right now.
john
Kelly, you wanna ask Maureen for some bells right now, on air?
kelly
Um, Maureen? [Maureen laughs.] I have a small project I'd like to complete. It will be 42 million bells. [John and Maureen laugh.] May I please borrow those?
maureen
Uh, no.
john
Alright, I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. [The litigants laugh.] I am going to go to the—my own private island of my mind. Which is located not in Animal Crossing, but underneath this plastic conference table in the studios of WERU. Where I hope it'll be slightly cooler, 'cause we have the AC off. At my request! It's better for the sound. I'll cool off, I'll think it over, I'll be back in a moment with my decision.
sound effect
[As Jesse speaks below: Door opens, chairs scrape, footsteps.]
jesse
Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.
sound effect
[Door shuts.]
jesse
Maureen and Kelly, how many other of these video game machines have you got? [The litigants laugh.]
maureen
Um, we have—
jesse
You got any ColecoVisions?
kelly
No, we're not that cool.
maureen
No. If you're asking for real, we have, uh, like a PS4, an Xbox One, and some, like, older gen stuff. And some portable systems.
jesse
A nice man sent me one of those PlayStations so I could pretend to be Spider-Man. It was a lot of fun. [Stifles laughter.]
kelly
That's a great game.
maureen
It's a very good game.
kelly
It's a very good game.
jesse
It's great. He's Spider-Man, he's jumping around, shooting webs. Who wouldn't believe this stuff this guy does? [Someone stifles laughter.]
kelly
I love that game.
jesse
Uh, you got any hot tips for—for a Zelda? [Someone stifles laughter.] 'Cause my friend Jordan gave me his Nintendo Wii U, and I've been playing Zelda, and I don't know, I guess I need some recipes or something.
kelly
Oh, Maureen's good at Zelda.
maureen
Oh, you're playing Breath of the Wild?
jesse
[Dolefully] Yeah...
maureen
I was like, if you're playing Skyward Sword, I have no help for you. [Laughs.] You need a good controller.
jesse
Was there really one called Skyward Sword? [Laughs.]
kelly
There was.
maureen
There was!
jesse
Wow, what an awkward name!
kelly
I know. [All three laugh.]
maureen
Yeah, and you had to, like, hold the Wii remote in the air, pointing it up. It was very uncomfortable. [More laughter.]
jesse
How do you feel, Maureen, about your chances in this case?
maureen
I'm feeling pretty bad right now. [One or both litigants laugh quietly.]
jesse
Mm. Yeah. Kelly, how are you feeling?
kelly
I'm going to reserve judgment.
jesse
Yeah, we'll see what the judge has to say about all this when we come back in just a moment.
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
sound effect
[As Jesse speaks below: Door opens, chairs scrape on the floor, footsteps.]
jesse
Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.
sound effect
[Door shuts.]
john
So, Bailiff Jesse Thorn pointed out that your... two Nintendos, two islands lifestyle is in line with this court's precedent of encouraging a certain amount of physical and emotional independence within a marriage. Which is specifically, you don't have to sleep right on top of each other. If you have the means to get a king-size bed, do it. And ideally, you could each have separate bedrooms, connected only by a slender slate walking path over a reflecting pool. That would be an ideal bedroom. For me. ...I don't think that's true. I love—I love spending time with my wife! And it's just a fantasy that I have from time to time. And what we're talking about here is a fantasy that you have from time to time. You know, you're cute in game. That's been proven by evidence. And though we've not met in person, I don't believe, it's been really fun to talk to both of you. You both deserve better from the Governor of St. Louis. [Stifles laughter.] Governor of Missouri, I mean. Mike Parson. [Maureen laughs.] You deserve better in your state government. You deserve better in your federal government, to say the least. You deserve a functioning federal government that mobilizes information and resources in a coordinated way across the nation to respond to a... not just national but worldwide health crisis that affected you both personally. You deserve better. You deserve better in the real world than an economic system that is obviously unfair, and favors the wealthy. As I was explaining to Joel Mann, every game of Monopoly ends in tears, because it is presented as a game—as a capitalistic game—of fair play, where everyone starts at the same spot on the board. But the first person to randomly accrue any wealth whatsoever? Exponentially grows wealth until the rest are crushed and ground beneath their feet. Ha ha! Fun for a family! [Stifles laughter.] Very representative of what happens in capitalism as it is practiced today.
john
And I'll be honest, you know, I consider myself a capitalist! I am a small business! I don't create iridescent shells. I create words and ideas that I put out into the marketplace, and I hope people value them, and pay me for them! That's the only way I understand how to live, is to have work like you, Kelly, that I can put my hands on. Small-scale stuff, making... pretty shells. And giving them away, or selling them away, whatever makes you happy. I don't understand the high finance of this—of the turnip market. I'm never gonna play those markets. I don't get it. And if it weren't for a lot of luck in my life, and a lot of privilege in my life, I would have been ground down out of existence. My funny jokes, or whatever—nothing. I've had a lot of good turns in my life. Never mind the fact that I was born looking this way, and I was born in a stable family that had some—not generational wealth behind it, but economic stability. Right? I think we all understand, in the midst of this crisis, that we all deserve better. And I think one of the great awakenings of this moment is that a lot of people who never thought that they were going to be laid off, a lot of people who the system sort of favored as it worked every day, a lot of people who were never gonna have to get food stamps, a lot of people who were never gonna have to get unemployment insurance, a lot of people who were never gonna have to seek disability, suddenly had to. And they realized how faulty the system was. They realized that the system that other, less privileged people were interacting with every day was not helping them or anybody. And meanwhile, these turnip billionaires are floating above the Earth. Whining—that's what you sounded like, Maureen, like Elon Musk. Whiniiing! About how, "Eugh, California isn't being nice to me 'cause I can't make my electric cars fast enough because people are dying of COVID." Gross. Gross. Maureen? Gross.
maureen
[Fighting laughter] Yes?
john
[Pleasantly] No, it was just—it was just a rhetorical "Maureen."
maureen
[Still fighting laughter] Okay.
john
In real life, you both deserve better. Than what has happened. We all do. 'Cause we're all human beings. Sometimes, you pick the mean answer in Dragon Age. Games... are a place to explore fantasies. Games are a place to play a role. Games are a place where it can feel good! To actually pay off a mortgage! When IRL, paying down a mortgage, paying off a student loan, is often a seemingly impossible feat. Given the structure of even a functioning economy such as what we had prior to March. You made a decision to have separate islands. That was a lifestyle you chose to explore in this game. You could have had the same island! Look. Maybe you can't in Animal Crossing. I don't know. But you see what I'm saying. You made a decision to have separate islands! To play the game in different ways. Is Maureen... a monster, in Animal Crossing? [Someone stifles laughter.] Yes! Is she as bad as Tom Nook? No. Yes, capitalist monster! In game. Progressive activist out of game! Good balance. She deserves, don't you think, Kelly, the right to play the game that gives her the most pleasure, however perverse that pleasure may be? [Stifles laughter.] She not only is making a lot of money on a financial market, but is frankly exploiting your labor, Kelly. [The litigants laugh.]
john
She's frankly taking shells from you, knowing that you would keep making them even if she didn't ever pay you for them or reimburse you for them. The symbiosis of your relationship in this game is sadly more resonant of the toxic symbiosis between labor and capital in the real world. That's why Joel Mann doesn't ever wanna play this game. Dude has a mortgage. [One of the litigants laughs.] Joel, I don't wanna get personal with you, but you've had a mortgage in your life, right?
joel
I have one mortgage now; I don't want another one.
john
Right, exactly. Not even a fake one. Sold to you by a folkloric raccoon dog?
joel
I wouldn't be able to sleep at night.
john
No, I know. But that's okay! That's how you have fun in the game. Maureen is having fun in the game! And now that it is clear that she wants to continue to have this exploitative, accumulative, capitalistic fun in the game, even at the expense of her wife's feelings... Now that that's clear, now that you both know this about each other, you'll have some interesting conversations outside of the game. Perhaps. [One of the litigants laughs quietly.] But in the meantime... I want Maureen to play the game that she is playing, and Kelly, I want you to play the game that gives you pleasure. So for that reason, I cannot approve a 25% confiscation of Maureen's wealth, which would be applied at some obscure—obscure timeline, from time to time. I mean, Kelly, let's face it. You didn't make a—you didn't have a very clear program. You need to have a plan for that.
kelly
That's fair.
john
But in honor of someone who had a plan for everything and still does, Elizabeth Warren... two percent wealth tax. Annually. That's what you get, Maureen! 2% wealth tax.
maureen
That sounds fair!
john
Eight hundred and forty thousand bells. I order you to transfer annually. Or, you know, 2% of your total wealth, transfer annually to your wife. Because you move that money around, uh, but you didn't build that iridescent sand dollar table. You benefit from her, as well. That's why I order a transfer immediately of 840,000 bells from Maureen to Kelly for the year—fiscal year 2019 into 2020. We will re-evaluate next year, if we're still playing this game. This is the sound of a gavel.
sound effect
Brief Animal Crossing sound effect plays.
john
Judge John Hodgman rules; that is all.
sound effect
[As Jesse speaks below: Door opens, chairs scrape on the floor, footsteps.]
jesse
Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.
sound effect
[Door shuts.]
jesse
Kelly, how do you feel?
kelly
I feel like it was a very fair verdict. I liked his plan, and this is why I brought this to Judge John Hodgman.
jesse
Yeah, well, Judge John Hodgman, he has a plan for that! Maureen, how do you feel about the verdict?
maureen
My fear is that it will apply to Animal Crossing years, and since I time travel, I will be transferring this amount of money about weekly, but otherwise I feel very good about it.
sound effect
[Door opens.]
john
I'm talking about Judge John Hodgman years! Regular years!
maureen
[Laughing] Okay.
jesse
Do you remember that Saturday Night Live sketch where Steve Forbes was trying to convince them that he wasn't pitching the flat tax 'cause he was Steve Forbes, but rather because he was Teve Torbes? [John snorts, Jesse stifles laughter.] Who just happened to support the flat tax? [John laughs.] That was just a little tax plan thing I was thinking about, and just smiling to myself.
john
Teve Torbes...
jesse
Kelly, Maureen—[laughs]—thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.
kelly
Thank you!
maureen
Thank you so much!
john
I echo my bailiff's thanks. Before we let you go, I rarely do this, but I'm gonna go ahead. You sent in as "evidence," quote-unquote, your Animal Crossing Instagram account? So I'm gonna say Instagram.com/queens_crossing. Queens_Crossing. Check it out. And good luck in real life, and... on this plane. Of existence.
jesse
Thanks very much to both of you.
kelly
[Stifling laughter] Thank you.
maureen
Thank you. You, too.
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
jesse
Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books! Our thanks to everyone who listens to our show. Our thanks to everyone who's listened through the MaxFunDrive and through all of our pitches, and our thanks to everyone who's done something for our community. Recommending the show, sharing it with someone, reviewing it in a podcast app. And especially, particularly, thanks to everybody who has become a member. We're so grateful for you. We know it's tough times, and we're glad to have this wonderful job where we get to hang out with our friend.
john
Yeah! I mean, that's the—the hard thing about this time is that you feel... you feel overwhelmed. You feel powerless, at times. You feel... disconsolate. And yet, for all of those hard feelings, you have to get up and keep going, and do your day-to-day stuff. And it's really meaningful to me that Judge John Hodgman, along with I'm sure all of your other podcasts, that you, like me, use podcasts as a way to get up and go and do your day-to-day stuff. So thank you for helping us, and tolerating us, and being patient during these weeks of MaxFunDrive, while we got up and did our day-to-day stuff. The stuff that needed to get done to keep MaxFun going. To keep MaxFun independent. To keep MaxFun producing the content that you enjoy, that I enjoy. I'm a member, obviously. Just letting us know that you're out there has been so great. And thank you so much for all of your support, both emotional and otherwise. MaximumFun.org/join. I look forward to mis-pronouncing your name on the Internet.
jesse
Thanks, everybody. In a moment, we'll have Swift Justice. First, our thanks to Briana O’Sullivan and Emily JoAnn Holasek for naming this week's episode, "Animal Crossing Examination." If you'd like to name a future episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook! We regularly put out our calls for submissions there. You can follow us on Twitter at @JesseThorn and at @hodgman. Hashtag your Judge John Hodgman Tweets #JJHo, and check out the Maximum Fun subreddit to discuss this episode. We're on Instagram at @judgejohnhodgman. Make sure to follow us there for evidence and other fun stuff. And this week's episode was edited by Hannah Smith. Our producer is Jennifer Marmor.
jesse
Now, Swift Justice! Where we answer your small disputes with a quick judgment. Eva says: "My colleagues and I are both Spanish teachers, but neither of our first languages is Spanish. They pronounce the 'Panera' part of 'Panera Bread Company' with a Spanish accent. I think it's really pretentious. What say you, Judge Hodgman?"
john
[Snorts.] So they're saying, [Spanish accent and rolling the R] "Panera"?
jesse
[Spanish accent and rolling the R] Panera?
john
[Again] Panera?
jesse
[Again] Panera?
john
Sooo, interestingly... Kelly and Maureen are in St. Louis. Panera Bread—I'm gonna say [in his usual accent] "Panera Bread"—was founded in 1993 as the St. Louis Bread Company! Guess what, Joel? They wanted to go national. And literally, the creator said, "I want something that we can take to Portland, Oregon, or Portland, Maine."
joel
Good idea.
john
Right?
joel
Yeah.
john
That is a national strategy to reach white people. Okay. [Joel laughs quietly.] So they renamed it Panera, which means "bread basket" in Spanish. Bread basket bread. That's a little history lesson. But basically, I'm gonna say... Just say "Panera." I agree. "Panera"? No es bueno. Too pretentious. It is what it is. [Stifles laughter.] It's a fast food company. Panera Bread.
jesse
That's it for this week's episode. Submit your cases at MaximumFun.org/jjho, or email hodgman@maximumfun.org. No case is too small. We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
music
A cheerful guitar chord.
speaker 2
Comedy and culture.
speaker 3
Artist owned—
speaker 4
—audience supported.
About the show
Have your pressing issues decided by Famous Minor Television Personality John Hodgman, Certified Judge. If you’d like John Hodgman to solve your pressing issue, please contact us HERE.
Follow @judgejohnhodgman on Instagram to view evidence from the cases tried in court.
Get in touch with the show
@judgejohnhodgman
@judgejohnhodgman.bsky.socialPeople
How to listen
Stream or download episodes directly from our website, or listen via your favorite podcatcher!
