TRANSCRIPT Ep. 454: Live in Washington D.C.

Transcript

sound effect
									
[Three gavel bangs.]
jesse thorn
									
Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorn. This episode, recorded live on stage in Washington, DC at the Lincoln Theatre!
john hodgman
									
We have some excellent cases for you! And we were joined on stage by our friend Linda Holmes, from The Pop Culture Happy Hour. And our musical guest was the great Brian Farrow. It was a really fun night, and we're so happy to share it with you... right now!
jesse
									
Let's go to the stage.
sound effect
									
[Three gavel bangs.]
jesse
									
[Audience cheers and applauds.] Washington, DC, you've come to us desperate for justice! And we're here at the Lincoln Theatre to deliver! [Cheering and applause swells.] Let's bring out our first set of litigants. Please welcome to the stage Sarah and Susan! [Cheering and applause swells again.] Tonight's case: "Emergency You In Court!" (Emergency + "See you in court.") Sarah files case against her mother Susan. Susan is a volunteer EMT in a rural community. Sarah would like her mother to refrain from responding to emergency calls when Sarah is in town visiting. [Audience laughter.] Susan feels a responsibility to respond to the calls whenever they come through. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one can decide. Please rise—metaphorically—as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers an obscure cultural reference. [More cheering and applause. John waits for it to die down.]
john
									
Bailiff Jesse Thorn... I yield my time on the floor to DC native Jade Jones for the cultural reference. Please step forward.
jesse
									
So yielded. [More cheering and applause. Jade waits for it to die down.]
jade jones
									
[Singing] When I get up all in ya We can hear the angels calling us And we can see the sunrise before us And when I'm in that thing I make your body sing I make her say Wee ooh wee ooh wee Wee ooh wee ooh wee Wee ooh wee ooh wee [Audience laughter.] Like a cop car! [Louder audience laughter. Jade continues unfazed.] Wee ooh wee ooh wee Wee ooh wee ooh wee Wee ooh wee ooh wee! [Beat.] [Speaking calmly] Judge. [Audience cheers and applauds.]
john
									
Thank you, Jade!
jesse
									
Jade Jones!
john
									
Stand by, please, Jade. Please swear them in, Bailiff Jesse Thorn.
jesse
									
Sarah and Susan, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever?
sarah
									
I do.
susan
									
I do.
jesse
									
Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he has never been an EMT, only a fraudulent medical doctor? [Audience and litigants laugh.]
sarah
									
I do.
susan
									
I do.
jesse
									
Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.
john
									
Sarah and Susan, you may be seated. For an immediate summary judgment in one of yours' favors, can either of you name the piece of popular culture that Jade Jones sang when we entered the courtroom? Susan, let's start with you.
susan
									
I think I heard it on a TV show Active9—uh, 9-1-1.
john
									
You heard it on the TV show 9-1-1.
susan
									
Yeah. [Scattered audience laughter.]
john
									
Is that a TV show? [John and audience laugh.]
susan
									
It is! [Chuckles.]
jesse
									
Yeah.
susan
									
It's a real TV show.
john
									
It's a—what's that?
susan
									
It's a real TV show.
john
									
It's a real TV show, and as a volunteer EMT is it your favorite TV show? [Audience and Sarah laugh.]
susan
									
It's one I enjoy.
john
									
It's like, "I don't—" [laughs]. "I don't get enough calls. Let's get some pretend calls up in here!" [Audience laughs.] Sarah, what's your guess?
sarah
									
My guess is it's that song that goes like "Wee ooh, wee ooh, wee!" [John and audience laugh, Sarah stifles laughter.] "Wee ooh, wee ooh, wee! Like a cop car." That—that one.
jesse
									
Yeah.
john
									
Well—
jesse
									
It's not a bad guess. [Everyone laughs.]
john
									
We'll add that into the guess book, but my question I have to ask— and I apologize, Sarah—is do you know the name of the song? The name of the song.
sarah
									
No, of course not.
john
									
Well, guess what? ...Neither do I! [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.] Jade? What is the name of the song, please?
jade
									
The name of the song is "Mrs. Officer," by Lil Wayne.
sarah
									
Ohhh.
john
									
"Mrs. Officer" by Lil Wayne, as performed by Jade Jones. And Jade— [Audience cheers and applauds.] So Jade, you're a DC native, and you're a theatre person and a performer.
jade
									
Yes. Yes.
john
									
What's going on with you these days here in the District of Columbia?
jade
									
Sure, I just finished Into the Woods at the Ford's Theatre. [More cheering and applauding.] Not to be confused with the Lincoln Theatre.
john
									
Right, of course.
jade
									
People easily confuse it because Ford's Lincoln... [Someone in the audience laughs.] Um—we—we get it. [Some more laughter.]
john
									
Yeah. Oh, and this place totally named itself Lincoln Theatre to confuse people. [More laughter.] Like, they were totally like "They're gonna think Lincoln died here." Then they're gonna come—all of the podcasts are gonna come here!" [More laughter.] "Alll the history nerds are gonna be like 'Let's go to Sic-Semper-Tyrannis–land!'" We got tricked.
jade
									
Correct! Yes! So I'm a musical theatre actress. I will be working at the Shakespeare Theatre for the next six months. So if you like... [Audience cheers and applauds.] ...high art, I would come out and see it. My Instagram is @littyofficial—I'm not making that up—so if you like Instagram, you can follow me.
john
									
How do you spell that?
jade
									
L-I-T-T-Y, Litty. Official.
john
									
All I wanted to know that there was no underscore between Litty and Official, because all underscores are canceled. Alright! [Audience laughs.] Jade Jones, thank you very much! We're gonna hear the case now! [Audience cheers and applauds.] Let's get to the case! Sarah and Susan! Sarah, you bring the complaint against Susan, your mother. Is that correct?
sarah
									
That is correct, yes.
john
									
And you—Susan, you live here in the DC area, or no?
susan
									
No, I live in the Northern Shenandoah Valley, in a valley in Shenandoah Valley called Fort Valley.
john
									
A valley within a valley? [John and audience laugh.]
susan
									
It's a—
john
									
This is some Inception stuff. [More laughter.] How deep does it go? [More laughter.]
susan
									
It's a hanging—
jesse
									
Are you—I don't mean to be rude, but... are you a mole person? [Audience and litigants laugh, Jesse stifles laughter.] Are you simply describing the center of the Earth? [More laughter.]
susan
									
It's a hanging valley. It's actually above—
john
									
What are you talking about?! [Audience and litigants laugh.] Hanging—a hanging valley?! A valley doesn't hang! A cliff hangs! [More laughter.]
sarah
									
It was named by George Washington, right?
susan
									
Um, well... [Susan and/or Sarah and the audience laugh.]
john
									
Wait a minute! Sarah, what's that supposed to mean about anything? The fact that it was named by George Washington is supposed to sort of fill me with utter reverence so I won't—I'll stop questioning the reality of what your mother is saying? [Audience laughs.] "Oh, well, if it was named by George Washington, our first president, oh!" No. You know what? I believe patriotism is questioning authority. [Audience laughs, cheers, and applauds.] And I question your authority, Susan. What is a hanging valley?
susan
									
It's a geological feature, and I don't remember how it—but it's actually above the Shenandoah Valley.
john
									
So your valley's a little bit above the valley.
susan
									
Mm-hm.
john
									
So it's like here's the plateau, valley, and then "woooh, valley!" [Audience laughs.]
susan
									
Well, not exactly, but yeah. [Audience laughs harder, Susan chuckles.]
john
									
Says here you live in the Shenandoah Valley, but you technically live in the valley within the valley. The hanging valley known only as Brigadoon. [Susan and audience laugh.] Orrr what is it again?
susan
									
Fort Valley.
john
									
Fort Valley. And there you are a volunteer EMT?
susan
									
I'm a volunteer EMT.
john
									
EMT being one of the great crossword puzzle answers. [Light audience laughter.] Those people know what I'm talking about. [More laughter.] And how many calls a week do you get, would you say?
susan
									
We average one to two calls a week.
john
									
And I pres—well, you said "we," so there's more than one of you?
susan
									
Yes.
john
									
Okay.
susan
									
There's the active running EMTs.
john
									
Mm-hm.
susan
									
There's about nine.
john
									
And when you say active running EMTs, you're people who—people who are—who are not volunteers? Or no.
susan
									
No, no. We're all volunteers.
john
									
All volunteers, right.
susan
									
Some people are not released, which means you're licensed to practice as an EMT. And some people are—just don't—have not been released. And some people have just moved, or gone away, but they're still part of the fire department.
john
									
Right.
susan
									
And so—
john
									
That's how it goes in rural communities.
susan
									
It is!
john
									
Right. I see you're wearing a hat, VFD hat. It's a very hard initialism to pronounce. [Susan and the audience laugh.] Fort Valley Volunteer Fire Department, I presume?
susan
									
Yeah. We're all volunteer. We don't charge for services.
john
									
Oh, well, thank you. Unlike the rest of America. [Audience laughter and applause.]
susan
									
About eight of us, but a lot of them work outside of Fort Valley.
john
									
Oh, okay.
susan
									
Over the mountain.
john
									
Right.
susan
									
And so—
jesse
									
Just over the mountain, or also through the woods? [Audience laughs.]
susan
									
A little bit of both, actually. [Laughs.] And you never know who's in Fort Valley when a call happens.
john
									
Right. So when a call happens, how do you get alerted?
susan
									
I wear a pager.
john
									
Right.
susan
									
And I have a radio.
john
									
Right.
susan
									
And it goes off.
john
									
Is this a valley in ancient times? [Susan and the audience laugh.]
jesse
									
Yeah, I—I have a sub-question. Are you a drug dealer in 1994? [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.]
john
									
You have a question within a question, a hanging question, as it were?
jesse
									
[Laughing] Yeah. [More laughter from audience and litigant(s).]
john
									
Okay, you have a pager.
susan
									
I have a pager.
john
									
Right.
susan
									
And I stop whatever I'm doing, and I get my car and I drive, and it takes about five minutes to drive to the fire department.
john
									
Right.
susan
									
And then—
john
									
Maybe you should drive to where the person's having an emergency. [Audience laughter.]
susan
									
It depends! Sometimes I do.
john
									
Okay. Oh, right, 'cause you don't have the ambulance parked in your driveway.
susan
									
I have a jump bag, all the released EMTs in Fort Valley have a jump bag that has an AED and things that you can treat a trauma with.
john
									
Mm-hm.
susan
									
But it's usually—
john
									
Do you have that with you tonight?
crosstalk
									
John: 'Cause I do some—a lot of heavy physical comedy, and I don't wanna— Susan: Yeah, it's in—it's in the parking lot. [Laughs.] [Audience laughs.]
susan
									
It's wherever we parked when we got here.
john
									
Okay, fine.
susan
									
I do take it with me wherever I go. [Laughs.]
crosstalk
									
John: Right. I'm sorry. I asked—you're trying to answer my questions here, and I'm distracting you. Susan: I know, I'm sorry. [Laughs.]
john
									
No, no, no.
susan
									
If it's closer to me than the fire department, I go straight there.
john
									
Gotcha.
susan
									
And then somebody can go to the fire department and bring the ambulance to me.
john
									
Right.
susan
									
And so there's eight people. Fort Valley is 20 miles long and 5 miles wide, and we have about... nine released—eight or nine—
john
									
Cool!
susan
									
—EMTs that, um, can—
john
									
Don't look to your daughter. She doesn't understand your life's work. [Audience laughter.] She wants you to stop.
susan
									
And so if—
john
									
She knows nothing of what life is like in Fort Valley. [Sarah laughs.]
jesse
									
She's just hearing sounds coming out of your mouth and looking at you and wondering if they're like... Vampire Weekend albums? [John, audience, and one or both litigants laugh.] Her life is meaningless. It's just a long string of avocado toasts. [More laughter.]
susan
									
So—
john
									
I would follow that life path. [Audience and litigant(s) laugh.]
jesse
									
[Laughing] Yeah.
john
									
Like, if it were just like, "Avocado toast, avocado toast, leaving to a grave in Green-Wood Cemetery in Brooklyn"? I'm there. I'm on my hands and knees. I'm gonna eat that up. [Audience laughter.] Follow that line. Anyway! Susan, I apologize.
susan
									
And so we meet, and sometimes only two of us show up, a driver and an EMT, and sometimes five or six people show up. And when we get there we decide who's the best team to go and take the person to the hospital.
john
									
And this discussion I presume takes about 45 minutes? [John, audience, and Sarah laugh.]
susan
									
No, it takes—[laughs].
john
									
"Gosh, Susan, I don't know! I mean..." [More audience and litigant laughter.] "You trained in CPR more recently. Let's get our certificates out and look at them." [More audience laughter.] "Who was the most recent person to train in CPR—will you hang on a second, Ma'am? We're trying to figure this out. So—" [John and audience laugh.]
jesse
									
[Stifling laughter] "Let's—let's roll for charisma real quick." [Audience laughs and applauds.]
john
									
Okay. And then you take 'em to the hospital.
susan
									
Right.
john
									
Right. And how did you get started in this line of—not work, but volunteerism?
susan
									
We moved there in 2012. We have horses, and we found a beautiful place to move to with our horses.
john
									
Right.
susan
									
And somebody that I met said "Do you wanna become an EMT?" and I said... [casually] "Yeah!" [Beat.] [Audience and litigants laugh.]
john
									
That's amazing! So when you say "We," you're talking about you and—
susan
									
My husband.
john
									
Your husband.
susan
									
Mm-hm.
john
									
And your horses, how many horses do you have?
susan
									
Now we have four big horses and two minis.
john
									
Oh, wow! So— [A sound that might be Jesse yelping?] [Litigants and audience laugh.]
susan
									
I have pictures!
jesse
									
How tall are the minis? [Pause.] Awww!
john
									
Let the record show that Susan is indicating about three and a half feet, maybe four?
crosstalk
									
Susan: Three. Jesse: Follow-up question— John: Three? Susan: Three. John: Okay.
jesse
									
[Desperately] Do you have any miniature donkeys, known popularly as donks?
sarah
									
Awww.
susan
									
[Regretfully] No.
john
									
[Laughing] Aw. [Audience laughs.] I'm sorry, Jesse. Someday.
susan
									
I'm—
jesse
									
I find in your daughter's favor. [Audience, litigant(s) and/or John laugh.]
john
									
Someday we'll find a case with donks for you. [More laughter.] What are the names of all of the horses? Including the miniature horses, if you don't mind. Let's start with the four bigs, and then go to the two mins.
susan
									
Bell, Wally, Zireo, Rags.
john
									
Yeah! Zireo?
susan
									
Yeah, he's from Colorado. He's a paint—
john
									
Oh. Well, therefore I understand. [Audience and litigant(s) laugh.] You may not know, that's a common Coloradan name. [More laughter.]
susan
									
For horses.
john
									
Zireo. [More laughter.]
susan
									
And the minis are Christopher Robin and Daisy.
john
									
Oh! [Audience "aw"s.] Yaaay, four horses! The miniature horses are kinda jerks though, right? [Beat.]
susan
									
No.
john
									
No?
susan
									
They're very sweet.
john
									
They're sweet?
sarah
									
They're really nice. Yeah.
john
									
Sarah is jumping in now to finally defend her mother?
sarah
									
Yeah. [Litigants and audience laugh.]
john
									
Right.
sarah
									
Well, like, ponies, you often hear have a lot of attitude.
john
									
Yeah, I always heard that ponies have bad attitudes.
sarah
									
But minis are different.
john
									
Minis are just little horses! They're just little—
sarah
									
Yeah.
susan
									
They are, they're little horses.
john
									
Yeah, they're like—
jesse
									
Just munching on them carrots, om nom nom nom nom nom nom. [Audience laughs.]
john
									
I'm really upset that you didn't bring them today. [More laughter.] But that's okay. I'll give you a fair hearing all the same.
jesse
									
You think you're upset, John? [Audience and litigants laugh.]
john
									
And you moved to Mysterious Valley with your horses... [Audience laughs.] ...in—you know, in retirement? If I may ask?
susan
									
Well—
john
									
Or a change of life of some kind?
susan
									
My husband is a consultant, and so he—
john
									
Never understood what that meant. [Audience laughs.]
jesse
									
It's a murderer for hire. [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.]
john
									
That's right, I have to imagine. Okay, so your husband retired from... mysterious consultancy. Right? And you moved to Mysterious Valley—
susan
									
Fort Valley. Mm-hm.
john
									
I know what it's really called, but I'm gonna call it Mysterious Valley. [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.] Mysterious Hanging Valley. Impossible Valley. USA. And you just were asked to volunteer, and you said yes!
susan
									
Mm-hm!
john
									
And how many—you know, I don't want—I know you don't wanna brag. But like, how many lives would you say you've saved? [Quiet audience laughter.] Or been part of the saving of?
susan
									
Most of my job is taking sick people to the hospital.
john
									
I understand.
susan
									
But there have been—we—we're far enough—
john
									
And that—and by the way? Thank you for that. [Audience cheers and applauds.] I'm certainly not saying you have to save a life every time or else it's not worth it. [Everyone laughs.] I'm just—[laughs] like, I'm really not saying you should say to whoever recruited you into this like, "This is boring! These are just sick people!" [More laughter.] "I thought it was gonna be life or death every time."
jesse
									
Yeah. "I got so excited when I saw them plunge that needle into the heart in Pulp Fiction, and this is just a bunch of whooping cough!" [Audience laughs.]
susan
									
Once or twice a year we have somebody that we have to get to the hospital very fast. We fly people out—
john
									
Yeah.
susan
									
—if they're having a stroke or a heart attack, or have serious trauma.
john
									
About twice a year, you would say, a life is preserved. Intervention occurs that allows a life to continue.
susan
									
Yeah.
john
									
And you've been—let's say as part of the team, you are part of those efforts. And how many years have you been doing this?
susan
									
I think I've been released since 2014.
john
									
So that's, uh—[mumbling mathematically] mm-hm, carry the—mm-hm, right. Five years ago. [Audience laughter.]
susan
									
Mm-hm.
john
									
So at a minimum, you've been party to five life savings. Would that be fair to say, Susan? [Beat.] I think that's fair to say.
jesse
									
Yeah. [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.] So stipulated.
john
									
The point I'm raising, Susan, is that your daughter Sarah... would rather those people have died! [Audience laughs and applauds.] Is that not so, Sarah?!
sarah
									
I—I think some people would say that. [More laughter.]
john
									
Yeah! I just did! The fact—[laughs] the fact that you are not saying "No, no, no!"... [Audience and both litigants laugh.] ...suggests to me that you agree with those people! Is that not so?
sarah
									
That is not so.
john
									
Alright, finally.
sarah
									
Yes.
john
									
You put your human mask back on. [Audience and both litigants laugh.] Thank you for showing us who you are, though, to begin with.
sarah
									
Mm-hm. [More laughter.]
john
									
So Sarah, where do you live in this world?
sarah
									
I live in Charlottesville, Virginia.
john
									
Charlottesville, Virginia. [Some of the audience whoops and applauds enthusiastically.] I agree.
sarah
									
Thank you.
john
									
How are—how are things there?
sarah
									
They—they've been better.
john
									
Yeah. [John and the audience laugh.]
sarah
									
No, I actually—they might not have ever been better. I should stipulate that. [Sarah, John and/or Jesse, and the audience laugh.]
john
									
Sounds like you enjoy living there. [Laughs.]
sarah
									
Yeah. [Laughing] I do. I do like living there, but... there's some things. You know. A-brewing.
john
									
It's—yeah. It's... yeah. It's happening everywhere.
sarah
									
Mm-hm.
john
									
What do you do there in Charlottesville, if I may ask?
sarah
									
I'm a grant writer for a small non-profit women's mental health clinic.
john
									
Oh, well thank you for what you do as well! [Audience cheers and applauds.] You are helping to save lives in a... much, much more indirect way. [Audience laughter.]
sarah
									
I agree.
john
									
But it is still important work.
sarah
									
I hope so.
john
									
And from time to time...
sarah
									
Mm-hm.
john
									
You make the journey over the hill and through the woods, and through the magic portal...
sarah
									
It is a number of hills. [Laughs.]
john
									
To the—and you go and you find the wardrobe, and you walk through it into... [Audience laughs.] Into the impossible valley of Fort Valley.
sarah
									
It's not an easy place to get to.
john
									
No, it—what's involved? Is there a funicular?
sarah
									
Like, switchbacks.
john
									
Switchbacks.
sarah
									
You have to go through the national forest.
john
									
Right. That's why they have a volunteer...
sarah
									
Yeah!
john
									
...fire and EMT department.
sarah
									
That's true.
john
									
Because people can't come in there to save lives.
sarah
									
It's difficult.
john
									
You heard about the helicopter that they have to take in. [Audience laughter.]
sarah
									
I know!
john
									
If anyone gets really sick. I mean, it's basically a death bowl. [Audience laughs.]
sarah
									
I know! [Stifling laughter] And my parents moved there when they retired!
john
									
Right, exactly! And so when you go and visit...
sarah
									
Yes.
john
									
...and you're hanging out with your mom...
sarah
									
Mm-hm.
john
									
...and you're angry, 'cause she's responding to these emergency calls... tell me your side of the story!
sarah
									
Okay. I will.
john
									
So I may dissect it.
sarah
									
So I have two small children. They love to visit their grandparents, they love to look at the horses.
john
									
Yeah, I was gonna say.
sarah
									
Yeah.
john
									
Grandparents, sure, but horses, come on!
sarah
									
Yeah, I mean— [Audience laughs.]
john
									
You know what they're there for!
sarah
									
She got too many ponies, I mean...
john
									
Little Daisy, and little—what's the other little one's name?
sarah
									
Christopher Robin.
john
									
Christopher Rob—the whole audience says it in unison. "Christopher Robin!" [Audience laughs.] So your kids love to visit.
sarah
									
Yes. They do.
john
									
Right. And so what happens while you—?
sarah
									
Let's just say you're there, you're hanging out, you know, doing something fun. And then all of the sudden these loud sounds go off, and my mom just like—like, she just bolts.
john
									
What do you mean "loud sounds"?
sarah
									
Just like, loud tones. You call 'em tones, right?
susan
									
Yeah.
john
									
Oh, this is the—
jesse
									
Like a reggae airhorn or something? [Audience laughs.] [Jesse and John imitate airhorn noises. John is sort of "pyow pyow pyow" and Jesse is more "bork bork bork bork!"] [More laughter.]
sarah
									
It's... yeah!
john
									
What do they sound like, Sarah, if you were gonna impersonate them? And, you know, don't hold back.
sarah
									
They sound like... It's like "BAAAMP! BAAAMP! BAA—" That was probably not it at all. What does it sound like?
john
									
Susan, was that a good impersonation, or no?
susan
									
No.
john
									
No, she says. [Audience and litigants laugh.]
sarah
									
I was just guessing.
john
									
Can you do it?
susan
									
"Beep beep beep beep beep beep!"
sarah
									
[Laughing] Oh, yeah.
john
									
I have a new ringtone.
susan
									
And then "doo-DAH!"
john
									
What was that? What was the last one?
susan
									
"doo-DAH!" And then— [Sarah laughs.]
john
									
"Doo-dah"?!
susan
									
Well... [Audience laughs.]
john
									
No thank you! They have to change that one! [Audience and litigants laugh.]
susan
									
And then they tell you what it is. Where and what it is.
john
									
And they—are they—
jesse
									
They come over the radio then, John. They go—
susan
									
It's over the radio.
jesse
									
"Hear me now!" [Everyone laughs.]
john
									
Do they come over live over a radio in your house?
susan
									
On my pager, yeah.
john
									
But I mean—
susan
									
Wherever I am.
john
									
Right, but does a voice start talking to you?
susan
									
Yes! It's 9-1-1.
john
									
It's—oh, okay.
susan
									
It's the people you call when you call 9-1-1.
john
									
So it's the 9-1-1 operators...
susan
									
Push a button.
john
									
...alert you—
susan
									
Push a button.
john
									
And then they just start talking into the house.
susan
									
Right. In wherever I am.
john
									
Right. And they say "There is an emergency at blah blah blah blah."
susan
									
Mm-hm!
john
									
"Who will respond?" And you jump up and say—and you jump up and you throw your children—your grandchildren off your lap— [Audience laughs.]
sarah
									
Yes!
john
									
[Stifling laughter] And you're like "I cannot wait to get outta here!" [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.] You just like, trample over the Candy Land set... [More laughter.] Is this true, or is this not true, Sarah?
sarah
									
I—it feels that way.
john
									
It feels that way. [Audience laughs.]
sarah
									
Yeah.
john
									
You feel your mother is too responsive to these other emergencies—
sarah
									
Yeah!
john
									
—and not responsive enough to your family time.
sarah
									
Yeah, I think that's accurate.
john
									
Okay. And when your mom jumps up and goes away, how does that make you feel?
sarah
									
You know, I could feel a little bit abandoned, or a little bit out of sorts. 'Cause I'm not—this is not my house.
john
									
Right.
sarah
									
It's their house. And so I'm oftentimes alone with my two small children on a 20-acre horse farm in the middle of nowhere.
john
									
Right. And you're not—
jesse
									
What if you run out of carrots? Then what are those little horses gonna eat? [Audience laughs.]
john
									
Yeah, they're gonna—
sarah
									
She doesn't want us to play with the horses without her there.
john
									
[Gasps.] [Audience laughs.] Susan, why not?
susan
									
Horses are large, dangerous flight animals, that if you don't know how to behave around them—because you don't come up and visit often enough— [Sarah laughs, audience erupts into laughter and "OHHH"s.]
sarah
									
[Laughing] That was—that was good. [Someone imitates an airhorn or emergency tone.]
john
									
Do you feel that Sarah does not visit often enough? [Beat.]
susan
									
I wish she could visit more often. But she and her husband both work. It's difficult. It's—
john
									
Well, isn't it the case then that since they cannot visit as often as any of you would like, I presume... that shouldn't you maybe turn your pager off and spend what time you have with them with them? Rather than leaving them at risk of being trampled by your wild horses? [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.]
susan
									
Sometimes I'm the only EMT in Fort Valley.
john
									
I thought you said there were like eight or nine of them!
susan
									
But—
john
									
Are they all just blowing it off? [John and audience laugh.]
sarah
									
Yeah. They are.
john
									
Tell me, Sarah.
sarah
									
So, she is the person who takes the most calls, year after year! She's the lieutenant—the EMS lieutenant?
john
									
Oh!
crosstalk
									
Sarah: So she's like the most responsible— John: So she's not Mrs. Officer, she's Mrs. Lieutenant!
sarah
									
Yes! She's the lieutenant. But she—I think at times people know that she's there, and that she's gonna respond to all the calls, and so they're like "Meh."
john
									
[Stifling laughter] Wait, you're talking about sick people? They're like—
sarah
									
Nooo! The other—
john
									
"Oh, Susan's the only one left. I think this is a good time to get sick." [Audience laughs.]
sarah
									
The other EMTs.
john
									
[Laughs.] Oh, I see. So they know—
sarah
									
So I think that they know that she's dependable, so they can just sorta like...
john
									
Oh, they're taking advantage of her!
sarah
									
They're taking advantage of her! Yeah!
john
									
Do you have any actual evidence that this conspiracy theory is true? [Audience laughs.] Susan is shaking her head no, Sarah says she knows. She understands.
sarah
									
It's—yeah. I know. I get it.
jesse
									
Susan, do you have any other option? Can you press the pause button? Can you assign your responsibilities for a period of time to another volunteer EMT?
susan
									
That's not how we work. We don't take duty shifts, because it—you can go a week or more without a call. And so if your duty—you know, you spend all that time waiting for something to happen that never happens. So the way it works there is if you are in Fort Valley and able to respond, you go. When you get to the call, like I said earlier, the person who is best able to deal with whatever the situation is...
john
									
Does so.
susan
									
Does so.
john
									
Right.
susan
									
[Hesitating] I am a top responder, but I'm not...
john
									
Oh. Not to brag. [Susan or Sarah laughs.]
jesse
									
[Stifling laughter] Is this about your Medallion status, Ma'am? [Audience laughs and applauds.]
john
									
Top responder.
susan
									
Well, they have a banquet every year and they give you—
sarah
									
Oh. Yeah.
john
									
You get four stars every time? [Audience laughs/applauds.] Ohhh!
jesse
									
You get access to all the responder lounges around the world. [Audience laughs.] If there's a responder upgrade available, you get it first...
john
									
So, no—you—I imagined that it was like a rideshare driver situation, where every time someone has a heart attack they're pestered by their phone to rate their EMT driver. [Sarah and/or Susan laughs.] Four stars, top responder.
susan
									
But I—the number I respond to is significantly less than the number I transport people out of Fort Valley. So I—
john
									
Okay.
susan
									
Frequent—and that's a—usually it's a total of about three hours to take somebody to the hospital and get everything done. But—
john
									
Right. So you respond, you show up, someone else is better qualified to deal with it, you go back on home.
susan
									
Right!
john
									
Right. Okay. So tell me about the last time that your mom responded to a call.
sarah
									
I don't know if I can remember the exact last time, but—
john
									
Or one that sticks in your mind.
sarah
									
Yeah. So one that sticks in my mind is that she had invited me and my family to visit them for the weekend. That she was gonna teach my daughter and I how to make strawberry jam.
john
									
Nice! Very grandmotherly!
sarah
									
It was a very like, lovely, grandmother-y gesture.
john
									
Right.
sarah
									
And so we get all the strawberries and the sugar in the big pot on the stove...
john
									
Right.
sarah
									
And then the tones go off.
john
									
Beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep!
sarah
									
Yeah. And she's just gone! And then I have this like, giant pot—
john
									
[Low, grave] "Susan, drop strawberry jam! Get out of house immediately!" [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.]
sarah
									
I have this big pot of like, sticky strawberry goo—
john
									
Yeah.
sarah
									
—boiling on a stove! And I never—I don't know how to make strawberry jam!
john
									
And how long—
jesse
									
You're thinking... [Jamaican accent] "Me not gwan make jam!" [Audience and Sarah laugh.]
sarah
									
Yeah!
john
									
How—[laughs].
sarah
									
Then I had this big responsibility. And no mother!
john
									
Yeah. Well, certainly, no one comes home to visit their parents to have to spend time with their children. [Audience and Sarah or Susan laugh.] But how long was she gone for before the strawberry jam project re-started again?
sarah
									
I mean, she was gone—I think at that time you did take them to the hospital. And so you were gone for several hours. I don't know. The strawberry jam got made, but...
john
									
And do you—
sarah
									
...could have been tastier. [John laughs. Audience laughs and "ohhh"s.]
john
									
Could have been tastier. Could have... Susan, do you recall this incident? And do you remember what the emergency was that you were responding to?
susan
									
I remember the incident, but I don't remember... and I really couldn't tell you—
john
									
Right.
susan
									
—because of HIPAA laws, what the incident was. [Audience, Sarah, and Jesse laugh.]
john
									
Suffice it to say, it might have been something more of an inconvenience than... having half-made jam lying around.
susan
									
I would assume so, because I really wanted to do it with them.
john
									
Right.
susan
									
And if that person needed to go to the hospital, or we could have flown them out, it takes a—pretty much everybody to get everything set up for flying somebody out. So—and it takes a long time.
john
									
So what do you like about doing this, Susan?
susan
									
I like helping the people in the community.
john
									
Yeah.
susan
									
I like knowing that I'm being supportive, and, you know, I do like the adrenaline rush. I mean, I—[laughs].
john
									
Do you think, Sarah—you say you have two children?
sarah
									
Yes.
john
									
And what's their ages and styles?
sarah
									
[Chuckles.] I have a six-year-old daughter and an almost three-year-old son.
john
									
So the three-year-old son is just a—
sarah
									
Yeah.
john
									
—a creature who just eats Legos and doesn't know what's happening, so that's... [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.]
sarah
									
Yeah. I agree completely.
john
									
But your six-year-old daughter is obviously cognizant of what's happening—
sarah
									
Mm-hm.
john
									
—and that her grandmother is going away. [Pointedly] To save lives.
sarah
									
Yes. [Audience laughs.] Everyone's very proud of her.
john
									
Everyone's very proud of—of your mother. Right.
sarah
									
My mother, yeah!
john
									
Yes. And—yeah! [Audience applauds.] Well, obviously it is a sad situation that your daughter can't make jam with—what does she call you? Grandma?
susan
									
Goggy.
john
									
Goggy. [Audience and John laugh delightedly.] Could! This! Get! More! Adorable? [Audience and litigants laugh.] I think this is the last episode of the podcast, Jesse. I think this is it. [More laughter.]
jesse
									
Yeah... we better close with a miniature donkey, or we're busted. [More laughter.]
john
									
[Laughs.] Yeah! Don't you think that even though she's sad she can't make jam with her Goggy, she appreciates that Goggy's got responsibilities?
sarah
									
Oh—
john
									
And is kind of a superhero?
sarah
									
For sure. And you know what, when we go to visit them, my mom takes us to the fire station and lets them climb up into the ambulance and the firetruck. Like—
john
									
Right.
sarah
									
It's like, super high-level grandma.
john
									
But you're not asking your mother to stop being a top responder.
sarah
									
No, not at all!
john
									
Just a medium responder. [Audience laughs.]
sarah
									
Yeah! I think—
john
									
Or a sometimes responder.
sarah
									
I think that she does take a lot of calls. I do think that she has even mentioned that people don't always respond when they know that she's there.
crosstalk
									
Sarah: And so I think—yeah! John: So—well, obviously you've already accused the Fort Valley— Sarah: Yeah!
john
									
And this time I will remember the name. Because you are accusing the other members of the Fort Valley Volunteer Fire Department...
sarah
									
Ooh. Ooh. [Audience laughs.]
john
									
...of being creeps and shirkers. [More laughter.] Who go out of town—or I should say out of valley—
sarah
									
That is what you say.
john
									
—when they know your mom is hanging around. 'Cause they're like "We can go away. We can eff off. Top responder will take care of it!" And when they're even there... they get the "Beep beep beep beep beep!" and they're like "Never mind, Susan's got it!" They're all a bunch of losers and wastoids. These are your words, Madam! [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.] You feel that she takes on more responsibility than she has to.
sarah
									
I think so, yeah.
john
									
Do you think that that's true, Susan, or no?
susan
									
No.
john
									
No, and you would never betray your colleagues, even though secretly you know Sarah's right.
susan
									
[Stifling laughter] No.
john
									
Let the record show that she is saying no, but I know that she's saying yes. [Audience laughs.]
susan
									
[Laughing] No.
john
									
No. You know your colleagues, and you trust them, and you have each other's...
susan
									
We have each other's backs.
john
									
...backs, yeah, exactly so. So it's Sarah who's lying. [Audience laughs.] It's—Sarah is a fabricator.
sarah
									
That hurts. [Laughs.] [Audience laughs.]
john
									
[Laughs knowingly.] I think that that was a sincere form of, uh, feeling! [Litigants laugh.] I think that was a sincere expression of feeling! Does it not—does it hurt?
sarah
									
Oh, it does hurt, yeah.
john
									
Yeah.
sarah
									
I will admit. Yes. It does hurt to feel like... you know, she actually doesn't like to leave the valley, because they depend on her! So she doesn't come and visit us as often as I would like.
john
									
Mm-hm.
sarah
									
And when we go to visit them, sometimes we'll be alone there for almost the whole weekend. She can't—it's not every time that we go that she gets a call, obviously. Like, it's one to two a week.
john
									
Let the record show that Mrs. Lieutenant Officer just gave her daughter some serious side-eye. [Audience laughs.]
sarah
									
[Gasps.] I missed that.
john
									
Do you—it was when you said "Sometimes we come and visit and she's barely there for the weekend."
sarah
									
Yeah! I think that's accurate. Because it's not just the time that she's away. It's also that it's hard physical work that's also mentally and emotionally taxing, and she needs to rest afterwards.
john
									
Sure!
sarah
									
So she'll go and do it, and then she'll come back and maybe take a nap or rest.
john
									
Right. Right.
sarah
									
It's understandable, but she's still... away.
john
									
Your father, your husband, is alive and in the picture? [Sarah laughs.]
susan
									
Yes, he is.
sarah
									
Yes.
john
									
So is he also volunteering and doing stuff?
susan
									
No.
john
									
Sooo, what do the children call him?
susan
									
Guppy. [Audience and Sarah laugh.]
john
									
I'm sorry, I didn't hear that. [Laughs.]
sarah
									
It's "Guppy."
john
									
Did you say "Guppy"?
susan
									
I said "Guppy." [More delighted hoots of audience laughter.]
john
									
Guppy and Goggy... [Audience and Sarah laugh.]
jesse
									
God, I wish we could just drop the mics and walk off stage! [More laughter.]
john
									
Where! Is! Guppy! In this picture?! When Goggy goes away, doesn't Guppy step in?! And help out with the jams and the... things?! [More laughter.]
sarah
									
It's a 22-acre horse farm. There's a lot of work to be done! Like, when we go up it's the weekend. He's been working all week. Like, he's off, like, doing farm chores a lot.
john
									
Do you have brothers and sisters?
sarah
									
I do, yeah.
john
									
Where are they in the world?
sarah
									
They live in upstate New York.
john
									
Do they visit and have similar complaints?
sarah
									
They would not go on record as such. [Audience laughs and "ohhh!"s.]
john
									
Ohhh, right! You won't betray your colleagues, either. [Audience and Sarah laugh.]
jesse
									
Do you have any sources in the deep state? [More laughter.]
sarah
									
No comment.
john
									
So Sarah, if I were to rule in your favor, what would you have me rule?
sarah
									
I would like it that when we come to visit, that she tell her colleagues that she would be unavailable to run calls. And that she would turn off her pager and the radio for the weekend. And also—this is something we didn't talk about yet, but she also is like, very active in the firehouse, and like... sometimes we'll go up there and she'll be like "Oh, yeah, there's bingo tonight, so I gotta leave at three to go like... run bingo."
john
									
Yeah.
sarah
									
So that she would just tell me if it's gonna be a bingo night before we get there.
john
									
So you might plan ahead.
sarah
									
Yeah!
john
									
And not come for a bingo night.
sarah
									
Or just know!
jesse
									
Plan to get a new grandma that weekend. [Sarah, John, and the audience laugh.]
john
									
Right. Have you ever considered hiring a substitute Goggy to hang around?
sarah
									
Oh, no!
john
									
Goggy... is it possible for you to tell your colleagues "I'm taking the weekend off"? I mean, I'm not talking about possible for you personally, but like, would it be acceptable within the... laws of the volunteer fire department?
susan
									
It's not something that people do. [Beat.]
john
									
Ever.
susan
									
Unless you're drunk, no. [Audience and Sarah laugh.]
john
									
Well, a solution has just presented itself. [Audience and Susan laugh.] I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision! [Laughter continues.]
jesse
									
Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. [Audience cheers and applauds.] Sarah, how are you feeling about your chances in the case?
sarah
									
I knew coming into this that I was gonna be the unsympathetic character. [Audience laughs.] Yeah. No. I—
jesse
									
What are you, reality show producing our podcast? [Audience laughs.]
sarah
									
Everyone in the family that I told we were gonna do this, they were all like "You're gonna lose." [Sarah, audience, and Jesse laugh.]
jesse
									
Susan, how are you feeling?
susan
									
[Sarah makes a couple of dismayed/placating sounds as Susan speaks.] I hope I am... supported, and keep—get to keep doing what I feel is necessary to do. I... [Light audience cheering and clapping.]
jesse
									
Hold your applause! [Audience laughs.] Well, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say... in just a moment. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict. [Audience cheers and applauds.]
john
									
So my dad is a grandparent to our children. A very devoted grandparent. He also does a lot for his community. He helps raise money for teacher development in the Brookline public schools, etc. etc., etc., etc. [Audience cheers and applauds.] He's a great dad. He's a great dad! Great grandparent. He is a—trained as a bookkeeper originally, and has an actuarial view about existence, which is to say he lives with one foot in the grave. [Audience laughs.] He is constantly extrapolating towards death. And at one point I was visiting him when our chil—a few years ago, when our children were a little bit younger. And he said "I would like to set up a schedule where I see your children every three weeks, either here, in Boston or Brookline or New York, one visit or another." I'm like "That sounds fine. Sure!" And he said "I've calculated—the reason I want to do this..." [Audience laughs.] "...is that I have calculated that I have about four more years where they will want to spend time with me." [Audience and Sarah laugh through some dismayed "aw"s.]
john
									
And I said "Hang on, Dad. We—I understand what you're saying. There is a period of transition when kids become preteens and teens, where they individuate, and they don't feel as excited about spending time with Guppy and Goggy." [Murmur of audience laughter.] "You're not wrong to think ahead to that time, I suppose. But if you are calculating the amount of time you have left, then the time you spend with them will be overshadowed by that, and it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy, and they'll realize that you're... a death-obsessed weirdo." [John and the audience laugh.] "If you just take it a little bit easy and not think about it that way and spend the time with them? You don't know how long they will enjoy spending time with you!" And I thought that that was very insightful on my part. [Audience and Sarah laugh.] Until I realized his calculations were absolutely correct. [John, Sarah, and the audience laugh.] Almost to the day. I mean, he didn't show me the spreadsheet, but I know there is one. [Audience laughs.]
john
									
And while my children still love their Guppy, they are now on their way in their own lives, and they are not as interested in making strawberry jam with him. You know, this is what happens when you have children. I don't need to tell you, Susan. They are the entire investment of your life, and you are the entire investment of their lives, for a very intense period of time. And then they grow up and they reveal themselves, that they have always been whole human beings the entire time. [John stifles laughter, audience and one of the litigants laugh.] They have been tricking you into thinking they were just a reflection of your own self. [More laughter.] That you could take pictures of and put on Instagram and get street cred for their cuteness. But that's all over now! 'Cause now they're their own—now they wanna be away from you. And they go away. And that's a hard thing to deal with. And particularly when you go through transitions like that, and then into later adulthood and retirement. These are big transitions, big life changes, and you have to find a way to make yourself feel happy and fulfilled and reconnect. [Suddenly scandalized] Don't put—don't stick your—let the record show that Susan just stuck her tongue out at Sarah! [Audience and one or both litigants laugh, audience keeps laughing.] 'Cause you think you have it in the bag, don't you?!
susan
									
No!
john
									
You think you have it in the bag!
susan
									
No! No! Not at all!
sarah
									
You do.
susan
									
No!
john
									
You and your friends sit around the firehouse... [stifles laughter] talking about how—no, anyway... [Audience laughs.] You don't have it in the bag, Goggy.
susan
									
I know. [Chuckles.] I know.
john
									
You're a top Goggy, but you don't have it in the bag. Still figuring it out in my head, that's why I'm talking so much. [Audience and one of the litigants laugh.] So! Your mom went through this transition that you're gonna go through.
sarah
									
Yeah.
john
									
Right? And the transition she made was to go to a fictional valley.
sarah
									
Mm-hm. [Audience laughs.]
john
									
Surround herself with dangerous horses. [More laughter.] And throw herself into the service of her community, both in terms of life-saving and bingo. And I know that you're proud of your mom! [More laughter.]
sarah
									
I am.
john
									
You have your own family now.
sarah
									
Mm-hm.
john
									
And I think that you will come to appreciate—if not now then later—that while I'm sure Goggy loves you and her grandchildren very much, she loves her life!
sarah
									
Mm-hm.
john
									
This is in—it's inc—look. I know you're grateful for your mom. It's incredible to have a parent, when you're an adult, who is self-sufficient, engaged, healthy, saving lives. Dodging horses. I don't know what's going on— [Audience laughs.]
sarah
									
She doesn't always dodge them. [More laughter.]
john
									
No, right. [Laughs.] Do they getcha sometimes?
sarah
									
Yes.
susan
									
A neighbor blew up something and knocked—they knocked me down.
john
									
Who knocked you down?
susan
									
A neighbor blew up something really big, and my horses knocked me down. [Concerned laughter from the audience.]
john
									
Why are we not talking about this?! [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.]
jesse
									
[Stifling laughter] John, we have other justice to dispense tonight!
john
									
I know, I'm sorry, I'm sorry! I just want—[laughs] I just want a series of novels set in your world! [More laughter.] Is that so much to ask?! A trilogy, at least! You know, lots of people have adult parents who are not capable of taking care of themselves. Who have big—who do not manage this transition well. Maybe they have financial issues, maybe they have health issues, or maybe they're just like... you know, charting their course to the grave, like my dear father is doing. [Light audience laughter.] I love him so much. This should be a point of joy for you. And while I appreciate that it is hard—that when you go to Fictional Valley to get a break from your children, so that you can pretend to be the retired mom that your mom is... [Light audience laughter.] ...and she's not there to stick around and take care of it, that it's frustrating. And also hurtful! 'Cause you have traveled far and wide, through various dimensional portals, to get there! [Audience laughs.]
sarah
									
Several, yes.
john
									
I share your suspicions, Sarah.
sarah
									
Thank you.
john
									
That there is... that your mom has taken on a mantle of responsibility, a heavy mantle of responsibility.
sarah
									
Mm-hm.
john
									
That her drunk colleagues do not share equally. [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.]
sarah
									
You don't have to tell 'em we were on here. [Susan laughs quietly.]
john
									
This may or may not be true. Just as you will not snitch on your siblings, so she will not snitch on her fellow FVVV...FDs. [Audience laughs.] But nonetheless, I do not think she will put it down lightly. And it's clear she will not put it down even for her own daughter!
sarah
									
Mm-hm.
john
									
I cannot compel her to put down that mantle of responsibility. I appreciate that it's frustrating.
sarah
									
Mm-hm.
john
									
Instead of having her be the role model of the Goggy who stays at home and makes jam, you have a wonderful role model of the Goggy who starts making jam, and then kicks it off the stove 'cause someone else is calling, 'cause her life is an adventure novel. [John, audience, and litigants laugh.]
sarah
									
That's true.
john
									
Your siblings were right, you are wrong. [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.] This is the sound of a gavel. [Three live gavel bangs.] Judge John Hodgman rules; that is all. [Audience cheers and applauds.]
jesse
									
Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Thank you to Sarah and Susan! [Applause and cheering swells.]
sarah
									
Thank you!
sound effect
									
[Three gavel bangs.]
jesse
									
Judge Hodgman, we're taking a break from the stage in Washington, DC. You have a brand new podcast available right now!
john
									
That's right! You know, last year Elliott Kalan and I were jawing about something or another with regard to the MaxFunDrive, and I made an idle promise that if we reached a certain number of new members that year, I would force Elliott Kalan to watch all 12 episodes of the legendary 1976 BBC miniseries about Ancient Rome I, Claudius and then record a podcast with me about it. And thankfully, the Maximum Fun members stepped up and either joined for the first time or upped their membership, and we made that number, so we made the podcast! And it's called I, Podius. The first episode just dropped a couple days ago. Every week we'll be releasing a new episode corresponding to each of the 12 episodes of I, Claudius. I, Claudius, if you have not seen it, is one of the greatest pieces of television of all time. And I say that even though it looks like it was recorded on a 1982 VHS machine that you rented from Videosmith and shot in your parents' basement. [Stifles laughter.] It has some of the greatest British character acting of all time. It's based on the historical novel by Robert Graves. It's funny, it's sad, it's touching, it's moving, it's disturbing... it's really terrific. And it's available at almost every public library. Public libraries love to stock that thing. If you go—if you have a public library card and your public library has a deal with the Internet website Hoopla, you can stream it for free. Or if you have some money lying around and wanna buy it on streaming or on DVD from PBS, it's not that expensive, and it's something that you might really enjoy!
jesse
									
Less than 20 bucks. I just looked it up on a popular, uh, e-commerce website.
john
									
Yeah!
jesse
									
Less than 20 bucks digitally, and about $10 on DVD.
john
									
Join us, won't you? As another favorite podcast of mine sometimes says. And watch along to I, Claudius, and then listen along to I, Podius, every week here on the Maximum Fun network! It's not too late to start and catch up! Jesse Thorn, what do you have going on?
jesse
									
[Laughing] Oh, nothing as important as—as the launch of a podcast with no monetization strategy. [Gets it together.] That we made just because we're—we thought it would be fun and we're grateful to all of the MaxFun members who joined us during the MaxFunDrive. We do have a really great new podcast on Maximum Fun that will be ongoing called FANTI. I really have been loving listening to it. The hosts Tre'vell and Jarrett are both very accomplished entertainment journalists, and also very brilliant and hilarious. And they wanted to do a show—they came to us with the idea of doing a show about things that we love, but also are troubled by. They covered Kevin Hart in their first episode, the comedian Kevin Hart, and it was very full of insights, and laughs, and compassion, and righteous anger, and all of those things. And they got into even murkier waters in the second episode. I—it's a really—it's a great, insightful, smart, funny podcast, and we're really, really proud of it. And really proud of Jarrett and Tre'vell's hard work, and Laura our producer's hard work. So go check it out! Give it a try! It's called FANTI, F-A-N-T-I. For things you're half fan and half anti.
john
									
Check it out. You know, and to the point that Jesse made earlier, we do have the MaxFunDrive coming up. Thank you to all of you who stepped up and joined or upgraded your membership last year, to force me into a corner where I had to take many, many, many hours of my productive time to have fun with my friend Elliott and re-watch I, Claudius. But you know, now more than ever we, you know, appreciate your support as we go into MaxFunDrive this year! And if you like the stuff that we're making just on the fly, like I, Podius or the new podcasts that we're launching, and wanna see us keep it up, then I hope you will also keep it up and either join if you haven't before, or upgrade your membership this year. If you can afford it! And if you can't, we still love you, obviously.
jesse
									
Let's get back to the show!
sound effect
									
[Three gavel bangs.]
john
									
Please, everyone in this wonderful theater, put your hands together once again for Brian Farrow. [Audience cheers and applauds.]
brian farrow
									
_[_Gentle guitar music as Brian sings.] You only have to say so much The rest you can say by touch Don't struggle over words Don't fret over verbs Me and you, I know what I've heard Only speak your native tongue I hear your intentions, sung And the sweet melody be found over me Brush my skin, the meaning within Tangled fingers and no delay What more is there to say? Firmness of hands Hips that demand Not one word can speak those commands [He vocalizes for several moments. Guitar slows and then stops.] [Speaking] You can find me at @KidBFarrow on Instagram and BrianFarrow.com. Thank you all so much. [Audience cheers and applauds.] [Brian starts up the guitar again.] Y'all hear the guitar alright? [Audience shouts and cheers affirmatively, scattered applause.]
brian
									
[Begins singing "The Bourgeois Blues" by Lead Belly.] Land of the brave Home of the free Don't wanna be mistreated by no bourgeoisie 'Cause it's a booourgeois town Oh, this bourgeois town I got the bourgeois blues and I'm gonna spread that news all around Me and my wife We was upstairs Those white folks downstairs said, uh... They don't want them [censor bleep] around here 'Cause it's a booourgeois town! Oh, this bourgeois town I got these bourgeois blues, I'm gonna spread that news all around! Yeah! Them folks in Washington They know how Call a colored man names just to see him bow 'Cause it's a booourgeois town Oh, this bourgeois town I got the bourgeois blues, I'm gonna spread that news all around [Guitar music dies down to a couple of strums.]
brian
									
[Transitioning from singing to speaking] Tell all the colored folks Listen to me, all the colored folks Raise your hand real quick! [Scattered cheering.] [Brian and the audience laugh. Brian starts the guitar music back up.] [Singing] Tell all the colored folks to listen to me You don't wanna make your home in Washington, DC! 'Cause it's a booourgeois town Oh, this bourgeois town! I got the bourgeois blues, gonna spread that news all around! [Speaking] Can y'all clap with me? [Scattered, unsynchronized clapping.] Uh, hold on. I gotcha. [Brian starts a beat. The audience syncs up with him.] There you go, that's where it is! [Brian and the audience laugh. Synced clapping continues, and Brian continues the beat with no guitar music.]
brian
									
[Singing] This is the legacy of your town! It didn't grow, it just changed the mold! [Laughs.] Don't play ignorant Y'all should know Nothing's gonna change until the veto rolls So! Get your lungs ready Scream and shout As I go ahead and take this song on out [Resumes guitar.] 'Cause it's a bourgeois town! Oh, this bourgeois town! I got the bourgeois blues, gonna spread that news all around! Y'all can sing it, too! 'Cause it's a booourgeois town Oh, this bourgeois town I got the bourgeois blues, gonna spread that news all around! Ohhh, I got the bourgeois blues Gonna spread that news all around [Brian finishes up the guitar music, and the audience drops the synchronized clapping to applaud and cheer.] [Speaking] Thank you, y'all!
jesse
									
Brian Farrow! [Audience cheers louder and then fades out.]
sound effect
									
[Three gavel bangs.]
promo
									
Music: Relaxing ukulele music. Manolo Moreno: Hey, you've reached Dr. Gameshow. Leave your message after the beep. [Music stops.] [Beep!] Steve: Hello, this is Steve from Albany, talking about my favorite podcast Dr. Gameshow! Dr. Gameshow is a show where listeners submit their craaazy ideas for gameshows, and the two hosts have to play them. And they often bring in celebrities and small children to share in the pain and hilarity. At first it might seem like Jo Firestone has a contentious relationship with the listeners. But that is only mostly true! She actually really respects us. It's a lot like Lethal Weapon, where Jo is like "Oh, listeners! You're all loose cannons! You're outta control!" And we're like "No, Firestone. You're too by the book! You've forgotten what it's like out there!" And that's why I love the show! [Beep!] [Music resumes.] Jo Firestone: Listen to Dr. Gameshow on Maximum Fun. New episodes every other Wednesday. [Music fades out.]
promo
									
Music: Classical orchestral music. John Hodgman: Hey, everyone! It's I, John Hodgman of the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Elliott Kalan: And I, Elliott Kalan of the Flop House podcast. John: And we've made a whole new podcast! A 12-episode special miniseries called I, Podius. In which we recap, discuss, and explore the very famous 1976 BBC miniseries about Ancient Rome called I, Claudius! We've got incredible guests such as Gillian Jacobs, Paul F. Tompkins, as well as star of I, Claudius Sir Patrick Stewart! And his son! Non-Sir Daniel Stewart. Elliott: Don't worry, Dan, you'll get there someday. John: I, Podius is the name of the show! Every week from MaximumFun.org for only 12 weeks. Get 'em at MaximumFun.org, or wherever you get your podcasts. [Music fades out.]
sound effect
									
[Three gavel bangs.]
jesse
									
Should we introduce our special guest on tonight's program? Yeah, that's right, we have a special guest expert witness! [Audience cheers.] Surprise witness, folks!
john
									
Yeah! Let's please introduce this person, won't you?
jesse
									
You know her not only as one of the greatest friends of Judge John Hodgman, the coiner of our classic phrase—[stifles laughter] I—by the way, I just claimed it for us, I guess, by saying "our" classic—
john
									
[Chuckles.] That's good.
jesse
									
The classic phrase "little weirdies," oft referenced on this program. [Scattered cheers.] She's one of the hosts of NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour. Please welcome Linda Holmes! [Audience cheers and applauds.]
john
									
Linda Holmes! Yesss! Yes! Yes!
linda holmes
									
Hi, y'all!
john
									
Linda, what a delight to see you!
linda
									
It's a delight to see you, too!
jesse
									
It's a real thrill—
linda
									
Oh, thank you!
jesse
									
—to have a successful podcaster here tonight, folks. [John and the audience laugh.]
linda
									
Well, it's a very—this is a very imposing show to be part of if you're a person who has no act. [Jesse laughs.] I feel like the Baroness Schroeder, I'm like I—
john
									
I feel the same way. [Audience and Linda laugh.]
jesse
									
[Laughing] Yeah!
linda
									
I'm like, "I would have brought my harmonica!" [John and the audience laugh.]
john
									
Do you play harmonica?
linda
									
No, but it's the Baroness Schroeder—
john
									
No.
linda
									
Some of them know. [Scattered cheers and applause.]
john
									
Oh, I'm sorry.
linda
									
Right?
john
									
I misheard something.
linda
									
Yeah. It's The Sound of Music. The baroness?
john
									
Oh yes, right. Oh, right.
linda
									
When all the children are singing and she has this wonderful line—she's like one of the best characters in all of film.
john
									
She is! [Someone claps.]
linda
									
And she says "Oh, I wish I'd known—" something about the singing, and "I would have brought my harmonica."
john
									
Right.
linda
									
And it's this wonderfully dry...
john
									
Yes. [Scattered audience laughter.]
linda
									
She deserves so much better.
john
									
Just like, ice coming out of her mouth.
linda
									
Absolutely!
john
									
Yeah.
linda
									
In the best way. When you're young you think that she's a villain.
john
									
No!
linda
									
And I'm not the first person to observe this, but when you're young you think she's a villain, and then you're kinda like... "Nah."
john
									
Yeah, no! [Audience laughter.]
linda
									
When you've seen enough moppets, it's like [noncommittally] "Mm..." [John and the audience laugh.]
john
									
It's—"I don't belong here," and she lets him go, basically, right?
linda
									
She does!
john
									
Yeah.
linda
									
And she tells him "Go get your nun!" [John and the audience laugh.]
jesse
									
When I was a kid my dad used to play the harmonica very badly. He would put on a tape, a cassette tape, and then just play along with it with his set of harmonicas. He was terrible, and I thought it was... the worst thing ever, when I was ten years old.
linda
									
Yeah.
jesse
									
I would just be like "Look at my dad, oh god." [Linda laughs.] "Ugh, playing the harmonica." And I feel like growing up is understanding that actually it was the greatest thing ever.
linda
									
Thing about him, yeah, uh-huh!
jesse
									
Yeah.
john
									
Yeah.
linda
									
Absolutely. Absolutely.
john
									
So Linda, you—obviously you observe and comment on popular culture. But you recently became a bestselling novelist, author of Evvie Drake— [Audience cheers and applauds.]
jesse
									
Evvie Drake Starts Over.
john
									
[Inaudible.]
linda
									
True.
john
									
Evvie Drake Stars Over.
linda
									
True!
john
									
And how does it feel to be on the other side?
linda
									
Well, it feels—uh, right now it feels tense, because I have to write another one. [Laughs.]
john
									
Yeah. [Jesse laughs.]
linda
									
I have a contract for another one.
john
									
When's the due date?
linda
									
The first draft due date is April 1st.
john
									
Oh, you'll never make it. [Audience and Linda laugh.] You know, as a former publishing professional, I can tell you...
linda
									
Uh-huh.
john
									
Those deadlines mean nothing. Like—
linda
									
Yeah, but here's the thing—
john
									
The deadline of every book contract should be April 1st.
linda
									
Right. Okay—
john
									
'Cause it is meaningless.
linda
									
But... [Audience and Linda laugh.] Here's what you don't know.
john
									
Okay.
linda
									
[Laughing] The original one was September. [Audience laughs.]
john
									
Oh! You've already blown by a deadline! Yeah. Make them wait. Make them wait, Linda Holmes!
linda
									
[Laughs.] Yeah.
jesse
									
You two are Maine buddies, aren't you? You two are both Maine enthusiasts. Evvie Drake Starts Over is set in the great state of Maine. [Someone cheers.]
crosstalk
									
Linda: True. John: It's set in Maine. Linda: It's set in Maine.
linda
									
It's set in Mid-Coast Maine. If you've ever been to the kind of like, Rockland, Camden... [Some more cheering from the audience.]
john
									
I'm sure I don't know what you're talking about.
linda
									
...wonderful part of Mid-Coast Maine, it is set in that area, where I vacationed frequently when I was a kid.
john
									
But you don't come back as an adult?
linda
									
I do! I do when I can. We came back a couple times to the same cabins that we used to rent when I was in high school, or middle school. My family came back when we were all—when my sister and I were adults and she had little kids. But then I also went back a couple times while I was working on the book.
john
									
Right.
linda
									
I actually wrote most of the second draft in the public—I wrote a bunch of the second draft in the public library in Camden.
john
									
Oh, wonderful!
linda
									
Which is veeery beautiful if you've ever been there.
john
									
And you didn't call me, either. I was there, probably.
linda
									
No, but I will tell you, one of my trips to Maine, I came back and I saw the Banana Man.
john
									
Oh, really? [Audience cheering.]
linda
									
Yeah!
john
									
Jonathan Niederer, the Fresh Banana Man?
linda
									
I saw the Fresh Banana Man! I stopped at the rest stop and I came in and I said "I know you from the Internet." [Audience laughs.]
john
									
Oh, really?
linda
									
Yeah! And I was not the first person to have done this with him.
john
									
Yeah.
linda
									
And he was basically like "...Yeah!" [Audience and John laugh.]
john
									
Yeah! Yeah.
crosstalk
									
Linda: That's kinda how it went. Jesse: Yeah, nobody loves being the Fresh Banana Man like the Fresh Banana Man, God bless him. John: That's right. Linda: That's kinda how it went.
john
									
Yeah. This is some old-school Judge John Hodgman stuff. Listen to the archives. [Scattered audience laughter.] In any case, time is short and there is still injustice! Let's hear some more cases. But we have to be fast 'cause we're moving along here. Time moves in one direction. Jesse Thorn, what do you say to putting ten minutes on the clock—
jesse
									
Okay.
john
									
—so we can hear three cases in swift succession, what we call Swift Justice. Shall we?
jesse
									
Please welcome to the stage Liz and Immanuel. [Audience cheers and applauds.]
john
									
Liz and Immanuel. Now, full disclosure, I must reveal that I saw Liz and Immanuel at Tattooed Mom Bar in Philadelphia last night. You're visiting from Philadelphia where you live, is that correct?
immanuel
									
Yes.
liz
									
Yes.
john
									
Right. And who comes to this court to seek justice from me, John Hodgman?
liz
									
I am taking Immanuel to court.
john
									
You are—and what is your complaint against Immanuel?
liz
									
I am lactose intolerant.
john
									
Mm-hm.
liz
									
And— [Scattered cheering ("Woo!") and applause in the audience.] [Liz laughs.] Thank you.
john
									
That is such a classic JJHo "woo." [Liz and the audience laugh.]
liz
									
And often when we go to get coffee, I will first order like a soy mocha, for example.
john
									
Right.
liz
									
And then Immanuel will come up and order after me, and they will order like a mocha with "regular" or "normal" milk. [Scattered audience laughter.]
john
									
Immanuel will order... "regular" milk.
liz
									
Yes.
crosstalk
									
John: Or... Liz: [Stifling laughter] "Normal." John: "Normal" milk. [Audience laughter.]
john
									
To differentiate their milk from your soy milk, or whatever.
liz
									
Yes.
linda
									
So you feel othered.
liz
									
[Stifling laughter] Yes.
john
									
Yes!
jesse
									
Is this a matter, Immanuel, of... cow milk hegemony? [Audience laughter.]
immanuel
									
I... I mostly just panic. Uh— [Everyone laughs.]
jesse
									
I think they found the key to the heart of the Judge John Hodgman listener! [Audience laughs.]
john
									
Well, I mean, Immanuel, I happen to know that you use they/them pronouns.
immanuel
									
Yes.
john
									
So obviously you appreciate the irony in normalizing one certain kind of milk... [Audience and Immanuel laugh.]
immanuel
									
That's—that's fair, yes. Yes.
john
									
Against all other milks.
immanuel
									
[Laughing] Yeah.
john
									
That you are—that you have chosen to accept there is not a "normal" in—
immanuel
									
Right.
john
									
—in human personhood and interaction and so forth.
immanuel
									
Right.
john
									
So what leg do you have to stand on? [Audience laughs.]
immanuel
									
I mean a lot of it just comes from severe anxiety around like, ordering, and like, talking to anyone.
john
									
Right. [Audience laughs.]
immanuel
									
And so like—so normally she'll order first, and it might not even be something I want, but I'm so panicked that I will just be like "I want the same—"
crosstalk
									
John: You just go—yeah, you just— Immanuel: "The same thing, but..."
john
									
You go back to ancient social training.
immanuel
									
Right. [Laughs.]
john
									
And conditioning. And you're like [frantic] "Normal milk!"
immanuel
									
Yes. [Litigant(s) and audience laugh.]
linda
									
What would you—
john
									
"Not that weird stuff; I'm not her!!!" [Audience and litigant(s) laugh.]
linda
									
What would you prefer that they say? Dairy milk?
liz
									
I think that saying something like "I would like whole milk" or "2% milk"—
linda
									
Sure.
liz
									
—would address their concern of not wanting to have a longer conversation.
linda
									
Sure.
liz
									
Quicker, even, than saying "normal" milk. [John laughs.] Because they have been asked sometimes to clarify!
linda
									
Right.
john
									
Sure!
liz
									
I was also a barista for a while.
john
									
Yeah.
liz
									
And so I know, too—like, I'm not gonna pretend that there isn't a standard. So if somebody would say "I want a medium latte," they will default to dairy milk.
john
									
The presumption would be to dairy milk, right.
liz
									
So they don't have to add "normal." [Laughs.]
linda
									
Oh, I see!
john
									
You're—
linda
									
So just don't—so just say "milk."
liz
									
Yes.
linda
									
Is your—would be part of your argument.
john
									
Yeah, you know, regular milk. Oh, damn, I just did it! [Audience and litigant(s) laugh.] The anxiety defense is a strong defense in the court of Judge John Hodgman.
linda
									
Mm-hm! Mm-hm. [More laughter.]
john
									
Panic attack while ordering coffee is something I can field. Like, that's for sure. [Audience laughs.]
liz
									
Can I argue again?
john
									
Yes, please. [Audience and Liz laugh.]
liz
									
So—
john
									
Yeah. Liz felt me wrapping it up; she's like "This is not over." [Audience laughs.]
liz
									
So—[laughs].
john
									
"Can I argue more?" [Laughs.]
liz
									
I grew up lactose intolerant, obviously, and my mother for my entire childhood called my milk "special" milk.
john
									
Ohhh. [Audience echoes John.]
liz
									
[Laughs.] So I have—
john
									
So this is bringing up some trauma for you.
liz
									
Yes. Yes.
john
									
Right. What's your favorite kind of non-dairy milk?
liz
									
Soy.
john
									
Soy. You don't care for the oat? That's big in the podcasts right now.
jesse
									
Au courant, yeah.
john
									
Yeah.
liz
									
I'm okay with oat. Soy is my preference.
john
									
Okay with oat milk? And there's almond milk, what are the all—what are all the milks, Linda Holmes?
linda
									
My favorite is cashew, personally.
john
									
Cashew milk!
linda
									
Yeah.
jesse
									
They make that out of a cashew (kuh-SHOO)? [Audience laughs.]
john
									
Yeah.
liz
									
We get cashew almond milk, and Immanuel drinks it.
john
									
Right. Here is my order. Thank you, first of all, for coming to the court of Judge John Hodgman. Immanuel? You have to say "milk." Or "dairy milk." Stop othering Liz's soy milk. [Scattered audience laughter.] And I appreciate that it makes you anxious. But maybe you can just print out a little card. [John and the audience laugh.] That says "I suffer from ordering anxiety." [Laughs.] "Please just put regular milk in my coffee." [More laughter.] This is the sound of a gavel. [Live gavel banging.]
jesse
									
Immanuel and Liz! [Audience cheers and applauds.] Please welcome Julia and John!
judge john
									
Julia and John! Julia and John have entered the courtroom with a bo—he—John has something on a plate. And Julia has a bottle of maple syrup. Who—? [Scattered audience laughter.]
jesse
									
For the at-home listener, I just wanna clarify, John is wearing a Bonnaroo T-shirt. [Audience laughs, Jesse stifles laughter.] And the rest of the clothes a guy wearing a Bonnaroo T-shirt would wear. [Audience laughs harder, litigants also laugh.]
julia
									
I was rea—[laughs] I was really hoping you would say that.
jesse
									
[Laughing] Yeah.
julia
									
"Something. Say something." [Laughs.]
judge john
									
I presume that you are here to seek justice for John's outfit. Is that correct? [Audience and litigants laugh.] And that this weird stuff on a plate and this maple syrup is just something you carry around every day. [More laughter.]
julia
									
I've given up on that one.
john
									
I see. Well, you are Julia—
julia
									
Yes.
john
									
And you seek justice. What is the nature of your complaint?
julia
									
Um, John scrambles our pancakes?
judge john
									
John scrambles... [Jesse and the audience laugh.]
guest john
									
Yep.
judge john
									
...your pancakes. And may I presume that what you have brought on stage is a scrambled pancake?
guest john
									
Absolutely. Yep. [Audience laughs.]
judge john
									
Then I absolutely presume that.
guest john
									
Yes.
judge john
									
John, wh—how do you—let— [Audience and Guest John laugh.] Set aside the fact that pancakes needed no improvement. [More laughter.] That it is a time-tested, delicious—though not for me, as a sweet; I don't care for sweets; I don't have a sweet tooth, I have an alcohol molar. [Audience laughs.] A time-tested thing, primarily tested through time, and improved through time, by the work and labor traditionally of frontier women. But that you, a white man in the 21st century... [Audience laughs, scattered applause.] ...have figured out a new way of making pancakes. Setting aside—! Setting aside all of that context... how do you scramble a pancake?
guest john
									
First I just want to address this history of this? [Litigants and audience laugh.] They're actually—
judge john
									
So you're—you're telling me "actually." [Audience laughs.] I'm prepared—look. If you've done some serious pancake history? 'Cause I don't what I'm talking about.
guest john
									
Oh, yeah.
judge john
									
I will definitely listen sympathetically. Go on.
jesse
									
Long—
linda
									
You gotta understand the system, John.
jesse
									
Yeah.
judge john
									
Yeah. Right? The system. [Audience laughs.]
jesse
									
Long ago, Francis Bonnaroo was at Burning Man— [Audience laughs.] And—[laughs].
guest john
									
So actually in the early 1900s, scrambled pancakes were invented in Germany, I believe.
judge john
									
Oh!
guest john
									
Yeah.
judge john
									
And were they called scrambled pancakes?
guest john
									
Actu—wait. This is—wait. [Audience laughs.] I got it on a cocktail napkin. [More laughter.] Okay—[laughs].
judge john
									
I can see you've done a Bonnaroo level of preparation. [Audience laughs.]
guest john
									
Oh, yeah.
jesse
									
Yeah.
guest john
									
Yeah, Wikipedia.
judge john
									
Yeah.
guest john
									
Wikipedia, cocktail napkin—
judge john
									
Wikipedia and a cocktail napkin, that's all you need.
guest john
									
Yeah, cocktail—[laughs] yeah!
jesse
									
A cocktail napkin is otherwise known as a "Bonnaroo book."
judge john
									
[Laughing] Yeah. [Everyone laughs.]
guest john
									
Yeah...
judge john
									
"Does anyone have a spent piece of hash I can write with?" [More laughter.]
guest john
									
Cigarette, yeah. It's—it—it's, uh, called Kaiserschmarrn (kai-zird-shmarn). I can't say that.
judge john
									
Here, let me see it.
guest john
									
Yeah, there you go.
judge john
									
Oh, very nice handwriting. [Guest John laughs.] Kaiserschmarrn (kai-zir-CH-shmarm)! [Audience laughs.] Or, AKA... oh, god.
guest john
									
Emperor's Mess.
judge john
									
Emperor's Mess. [Audience and litigants laugh.] Linda Holmes—
jesse
									
[Stifling laughter] Also what America is known as! [Everyone laughs.] 2019.
judge john
									
Linda Holmes, I am passing the evidence to you for your scrutiny. And perhaps you may want to ask a question or two of the witnesses.
linda
									
Did you begin scrambling your pancake because you wanna salute the history of the... kaisershmocken—Emperor's Mess? Or because you can't make a pancake? [Audience laughs.]
guest john
									
I was impatient and it cooks faster.
linda
									
Okay. Are you aware that the idea of a pancake, properly made, is that it has like a slightly bit of a crispy outside, and then it's like soft in the middle?
guest john
									
I like the chewiness all around. [Audience and Jesse or Judge John laugh.]
judge john
									
Hey—!
linda
									
I give up. [Audience laughs, scattered cheering.]
judge john
									
I—I wanna follow up Linda's question. Did you learn of the history of the kaiserschmart...zder... [More audience laughter.] ...and like "Mm, I wanna give that a try! That sounds interesting!" or did you just [censor bleep] up a pancake? [Audience laughs harder.] And then be like "I bet there's a German word for this." [More laughter.] And like everything you think there's a German word for, you were right! [More laughter.]
guest john
									
Yeah, I was, uh—I was pretty hungover, and just, uh— [Everyone laughs.]
judge john
									
Really! I see.
guest john
									
Yeah.
julia
									
Yeah.
judge john
									
Interesting. New layers! [Inaudible.]
linda
									
I guess as hangover food, it's clearly acceptable. I would say.
guest john
									
Oh, yeah, yeah.
judge john
									
My question is, you wanted to make a pancake fast.
guest john
									
Mm-hm.
judge john
									
Which is to say, you don't know when to flip a pancake. [Linda or Julia cracks up, audience laughs.] Right?
julia
									
Truth.
guest john
									
Yeah.
judge john
									
Because it's hard! It's hard to know. Julia, do you make pancakes?
julia
									
Yes.
judge john
									
And do you make good pancakes?
julia
									
Yes.
judge john
									
What do you like—what size do you like?
julia
									
Um, medium. Sometimes I throw a couple mini... or large. Depends on how I'm feeling. [Judge John, Julia, and the audience laugh.]
jesse
									
You ever made them—
judge john
									
I thought you were trying to say "mini" and "large" were synonyms. "Sometimes I try and throw a couple mini, also known as large." [More laughter.]
julia
									
I also come from a long line of pancake makers. My father has made a pancake for breakfast every morning since probably I was born, or before.
judge john
									
Oh my goodness.
jesse
									
So by long line you mean you and your father. [Litigants and audience laugh.]
julia
									
Yes. [More laughter.]
linda
									
[Stifling laughter] It does sound like her father counts as several.
jesse
									
[Laughing] Yeah, that's fair.
judge john
									
So—
jesse
									
"He eats the pancakes of many men!" [Audience and litigants laugh.]
judge john
									
Your father makes a pancake every morning. I bet he's good at it!
julia
									
He is!
judge john
									
What is his technique and how did he—and what did he teach you?
julia
									
I learned more by watching, because it's a very—you know. It's his thing.
judge john
									
Right.
julia
									
And it's the size of the pan. So I usually get a slice.
judge john
									
What are you talking about now, Julia? [Julia and the audience laugh.]
julia
									
It's huuuge.
judge john
									
He makes a huge cake? Huge pancake?
julia
									
A huge pancake. It's really good! But it's not quite what we're making.
judge john
									
Why do you associate only with men who don't understand what pancakes are?! [Audience and litigants laugh.] I thought your father was gonna be a role model! Instead he's some other weird creep! [More laughter.]
jesse
									
Yeah, this whole thing is something you need to address with your therapist, not us. [More laughter.]
judge john
									
[Desperately] When you make pancakes, they're just regular pancakes, right? Not giant pancakes? Not scrambled-up pancakes? Round pancakes in a cast iron pan, or maybe a non-stick pan?
julia
									
Cast iron, and I usually do blueberry or chocolate chip.
judge john
									
Right.
julia
									
And I do them very traditionally. I'm a very traditional pancake maker.
crosstalk
									
John: [Heated] Yeah, which is to say you make pancakes! Linda: Except the chocolate chips. Hmm. John: What? I'm sorry. Linda: I said except the chocolate chips; those are not traditional, really, I don't think. John: I think that they're—they're— Jesse: Oooh. Linda's steamed! Julia: Oooh. [Indistinct crowd noises.] Linda: Wow, okay! Jesse: Finally a voice for real pancakes! Linda: And the crowd turns on me, over chocolate chip pancakes! Jesse: Could you elaborate on that? On the "not traditional" part? Linda: I didn't say they're not good, I said they're not traditional!
judge john
									
Well, I—you know. I think that the Judge John Hodgman crowd is always going to boo the exclusion of chocolate chips. [Everyone laughs.] It's the only thing they love about the podcast! They pick out the chocolate chips and then leave the rest of the podcast on the plate. [More laughter.] Alright, I'm gonna try these scrambled pancakes.
guest john
									
Alright.
judge john
									
Now, do you wanna put maple syrup on?
guest john
									
Yeah.
judge john
									
Well, let me do a taste with—
guest john
									
So they do have almonds and coconut oil. It's like almond—
judge john
									
What are you doing?! [Guest John chuckles, the audience cracks up.] I mean, I just got my head around scrambled pancakes! But you're one of these guys who's like "Let's add on, add on!" What are you, Guy Fieri?! [More laughter.] "You know what this needs now, some jalapeños!" [More laughter.]
guest john
									
It's like Emeril. Like, "Bam!"
judge john
									
Yeah! Thank you for that ancient shout-out to my friend Emeril Lagasse. [Linda, Guest John, and audience laugh.] So you added in—I appreciate that you're warning me, from allergy point of view.
guest john
									
Yeah.
judge john
									
The coconut oil is no problem. Actually a very good cooking oil for stuff like this, in my opinion. For when you're trying to cook eggs or pancakes or something that'll release easily. But the almonds are chunked up in here?
guest john
									
No, it's like—so it's like almond meal flour. It's like— [Something clanks, possibly Judge John hurriedly setting down a fork.]
judge john
									
Jesus. [Audience and litigants laugh.]
guest john
									
It's—
judge john
									
Are you gluten-free? Is that what's happening?
guest john
									
No, I'm just weird. [Both Johns and the audience laugh.]
judge john
									
No. There is no normal. [More laughter.]
crosstalk
									
Guest John: That's right. Judge John: Understand, Immanuel?! [More laughter.]
judge john
									
Alright. So this is not wheat flour.
guest john
									
No.
judge john
									
Almond flour.
guest john
									
Yeah.
judge john
									
Coconut oil. Any other allergens I should know about? [Audience laughs.]
guest john
									
No.
jesse
									
He learned to do this at a Dr. Dog concert. [More laughter. Muffled eating noises from the judge.]
judge john
									
Alright, add the maple syrup. [More laughter.] Thank you.
jesse
									
Let the record reflect they have a... 75-gallon bottle of maple syrup. [Jesse and the audience laugh.]
judge john
									
It's in—it looks like nice maple syrup. What—is there something you wanna talk about? Is this your dad's big maple syrup company or something?
julia
									
No, I wish.
judge john
									
Oh, okay. What brand is it?
julia
									
I think it's Trader Joe's.
judge john
									
Oh, okay! [Guest John and the audience laugh.] Is there, uh, maple in the maple syrup? 'Cause I'm deathly allergic—[taking a bite] mm! [Audience laughs.] This basically tastes—first of all, it's got a very nutty under-taste. And it's a little—for that reason it's a little extra savory, and I like it.
guest john
									
Mm-hm.
judge john
									
It tastes like... you are a three-year-old who took your pancake— [Audience and litigants laugh. Laughter swells as Judge John presumably does some sort of physical comedy.] It tastes like you're a three-year-old, who like, instead of eating his pancake, grabbed it in his little hands and went "Whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh!" [More laughter.] And left it behind, and I'm the older brother going like, "Eh, I'll eat it." [More laughter.] But altogether it's not an unpleasant taste. My question is, what kind of mess does it leave behind in the pan?
guest john
									
[Sighs.]
julia
									
Exactly! Um, a big mess in the pan. And then I go to make my pancakes right, and I don't have a pan.
judge john
									
Right. 'Cause you don't clean the pan after you do your Emperor's Mess in it?
guest john
									
We have two pans. [Audience and Guest John laugh.]
judge john
									
I rule His and Her pans, one for the Emperor's Mess, one for Julia. Never touch her pan! [More laughter.] Keep your pan and your weird plans to yourself, sir. [Live gavel banging.]
jesse
									
Julia and John! [Audience cheers and applauds.] Please welcome Jason and Allison!
john
									
Jason and Allison, who comes to this court to seek justice before me?
allison
									
I'm coming to seek justice.
john
									
Thank you. And you are Allison, I presume?
allison
									
I am.
john
									
And what is the nature of your dispute?
allison
									
I feel strongly sometimes when there has been some form of injustice towards myself or my husband that I want to speak up and say something to correct it. And that makes my husband very anxious.
john
									
Well, that all sounds very reasonable and... rehearsed. [Allison and the audience laugh.] What do you—what is actually going on here, Jason?
jason
									
So sometimes there's like an awkward social situation that kinda calls for a comment. And she'll say "I'm going to say something," and I'd really hope that she... doesn't... go say something. [Audience laughs.]
john
									
Why are you worried that she will go say something?
jason
									
It's like a Spidey sense. It just feels really wrong. [More audience laughter.]
linda
									
Just like, that she's talking, or...?
jason
									
No! [Audience laughs.]
linda
									
Yeah. Sorry. Walked right into—no, I do have a question, though! I do have a question. I need an example. Like, are we—you don't want her to say something about politics, or you don't want her to say something about somebody punched you in the face, or... [Audience laughs.]
jason
									
When we moved into our house, our next-door neighbor used to tie their dog to our front tree.
john
									
To your front tree.
jason
									
To our front tree.
linda
									
And... Allison is upset.
jason
									
Yes.
allison
									
I was. We at the time had two dogs ourselves.
linda
									
Yes.
allison
									
And the tree was clearly in the center of our front yard. And this dog could—the leash would reach to our front porch. And so this little dog would be barking on our front porch. It sometimes would bark at our neighbors who were walking on the sidewalk.
linda
									
Mm-hm.
john
									
Right.
allison
									
And since it was tied to our tree—
linda
									
Seemed like it was your dog.
john
									
They thought you—
allison
									
Yes.
jason
									
Right.
john
									
They thought that a-hole dog was yours.
allison
									
Correct. [Audience laughs.] And—
john
									
It's really weird that your neighbor tied their dog to your tree.
allison
									
Thank you! Yes, I—I agree.
linda
									
It is.
john
									
What was going on there, in your opinion? [Pause.]
allison
									
I think they had done it for years before. We had just moved in.
crosstalk
									
Linda: Ahhh. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. John: Ohhh, I see. Right. Allison: Yeah! And so we— Linda: Adverse possession.
john
									
So rather than trying to blend into the neighborhood gently and go along with the traditions and customs... [Audience laughs.] ...you kidnapped the dog. [Audience laughs harder.]
allison
									
Mr. Bobo. I had nothing against him personally. He was a pleasant enough dog—
john
									
Is this the dog or your neighbor? [Audience laughs.] Mr. Bobo's the dog?
allison
									
Mr. Bobo is the dog.
jesse
									
Mr. Bob's the dog; Goggy is the neighbor. [More laughter.]
john
									
Is Mr. Bobo no more?
allison
									
Mr. Bobo and his family have since moved.
john
									
Oh.
allison
									
Yes. Not—not our fault. [Audience laughs.]
john
									
Not in any provable way. [Audience laughs harder.]
jason
									
Right.
allison
									
No. In fact we became friends. I—so ultimately I confronted, um...
john
									
Mr. Bobo's owner.
allison
									
Yes.
john
									
Senior Bobo. Did you—but this was awkward for you, Jason?
jason
									
It just felt so weird. Yeah.
john
									
Tell me more about how it made you feel.
jason
									
We would see them a lot, and they were very friendly, and I had two—
john
									
Yeah, that does feel weird. [Audience laughs.]
jason
									
We had two big dogs at the time, so I would walk them a lot, and so it just felt like I wanted to crawl inside myself. It was kinda... awkward.
john
									
After she confronted them.
jason
									
Correct. Yes.
john
									
But was there any sense that there was a bad feeling about this? [Beat.]
jason
									
No. [Light audience laughter.]
john
									
Do you feel that your sensitivity to this issue is the fact that you're... [stifling laughter] gentrifying a neighborhood where they don't speak English? [Audience laughs.]
allison
									
I—I do wanna share this—the neighbors who ultimately did move away, before they moved away, they came to our son's first birthday party...
john
									
Yeah!
allison
									
We went to their granddaughter's first birthday party. We—they're very good people! It all—
john
									
No! I mean, having hard conversations is part of being a neighbor. They're not all easy. And being willing to put yourself out there and engage in conversation, particularly if it's a cross-cultural conversation, is... you know. Whether it's responsible or brave or just basically human and decent, it's part of being a neighbor. And I'm glad that that seemed to have deepened your relationship with your neighbors until they inevitably got priced out of your neighborhood and had to leave. [Audience, litigants, and John laugh.] That wasn't your fault! [More laughter.]
jesse
									
[Stifling laughter] Capitalism is fundamentally morally corrupt. [More laughter, followed by cheering and applause.]
john
									
In any case, I applaud your—you—presuming that you are not a sociopath who has tricked me... I applaud your assertiveness, and I encourage you, Jason, to be grateful that you have someone to hide behind.
jason
									
Thank you. [Audience cheers and applauds.] [Live gavel banging.]
jesse
									
Jason and Allison!
sound effect
									
[Three gavel bangs.]
jesse
									
Live Justice! From the Lincoln Theatre in Washington, DC. Our thanks to all of the litigants who shared their disputes with us. This episode recorded by Jeff Bird, produced by Hannah Smith, edited by Jesus Ambrosio. Our producer is the great Jennifer Marmor. Follow us on Twitter at @JesseThorn and @hodgman. Hashtag your Judge John Hodgman Tweets #JJHo, and check out the MaxFun subreddit, MaximumFun.Reddit.com, to discuss this episode! We're on Instagram at @judgejohnhodgman; make sure to follow us there for evidence and other fun stuff. And hey! You made it this far into the credits. You owe it to yourself to get more John Hodgman content by subscribing to I, Podius. Just—this is the end of this show, so you might as well listen to that next!
john
									
Yeah, if you're one of these real dead-enders who goes all the way to the end of the credits... [Both laugh.] You're definitely gonna enjoy I, Podius, for sure.
jesse
									
[Laughs.] We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.
sound effect
									
[Three gavel bangs.]
music
									
Guitar music, presumably played live by Brian Farrow.
john
									
[Singing "It's You I Like" by Mister Rogers.] It's you I like It's not the things you wear It's not the way you do your hair But it's you I like! The way you are inside Way down deep inside you It's not the things that hide you It's not your toys They're just beside you [Speaking] That's a hell of a lyric, Mister Rogers. [Audience laughs.] [Singing] It's you I like Every part of you Your hair, your skin, your feelings Whether old or new I hope that you remember even when you're feeling blue It's you I like It's you, yourself It's you! It's you I like! [Brian finishes up on the guitar.] [Speaking] That's our show, everybody! [Audience cheers and applauds.] Kid B Farrow over here! [More cheering and applause as the audio fades out.]
music
									
A cheerful guitar chord.
speaker 1
									
MaximumFun.org.
speaker 2
									
Comedy and culture.
speaker 3
									
Artist owned—
speaker 4
									
—audience supported.
About the show

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