Transcript
music
“Crown Ones” off the album Stepfather by People Under the Stairs. [Music continues under the dialogue, then fades out.]
oliver wang
Hello! I’m Oliver Wang.
morgan rhodes
And I’m Morgan Rhodes. You’re listening to Heat Rocks.
oliver
Every episode, we invite a guest to talk to us about a heat rock: a record that just burns, baby, burns. And today, we’ll be listening together to the instruments of darkness and light, by returning back to 1986, to talk about In Visible Silence, the sophomore album by The Art of Noise.
music
“Legs” from the album In Visible Silence by The Art of Noise. Legs! [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
oliver
Sometime in the spring or summer in 1986—it might even have been around my birthday in August—my dad drove me all the way to Venice, California, to drop in at Penny Lane Records, which used to be right next to the famed Venice Boardwalk. In that store, I purchased my first ever album, on cassette: In Visible Silence by The Art of Noise. Looking back over 36 years, it seems perhaps an unlikely choice for the gateway LP that led into my now lifetime of record collecting. But in ’86, the album mesmerized me. It first began with hearing the group’s cover of Duane Eddy’s 1959 rock classic, “Peter Gunn” on KROQ, out here in Los Angeles. And something about the mix between Eddy’s growling guitar and Art of Noise’s electronic music machinations had me curious enough to drop $8.99 at Penny Lane.
music
“Peter Gunn” from the album In Visible Silence by The Art of Noise. [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
oliver
I didn’t know this at the time, but this was Art of Noise 2.0 after the group’s original crew split up like EPMD, just minus the reconciliation reunion. The version of the group I heard comprised of Anne Dudley, J. J. Jeczalik, and Gary Langan working their magic behind synths, drum machines, and other electronic music tools of the trade. The end results could be whimsical and maybe just a touch novelty-esque, but also surprisingly moving and infectiously funky. It wasn’t hip-hop, but for 1986, it was hip-hop adjacent. And looking back now, I’m almost certain this album primed me for my hip-hop awakening two years down the road, breakbeats, backbeat, beat back, and all. [Morgan chuckles.]
music
“Legs” from the album In Visible Silence by The Art of Noise. [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
In Visible Silence was the album pick of our guest today, Heat Rocks listener Jason Randall Smith, who’s been holding us down throughout our whole tenure on the air. Shoutout. Today’s episode is the first of two episodes with our listeners sharing their personal Heat Rocks with us. Jason, welcome to Heat Rocks.
jason randall smith
Thank you so much for having me. It’s an extraordinary pleasure to be here with you two.
morgan
Generally, we do a whole long intro, but since we’re doing a listener supported and listener introductory episode, tell us about yourself. Where you’re from, what you do, your astrological sign, your placements. [They chuckle.]
jason
Astrological sign would be Scorpio. [Morgan affirms.] And I am out here in Mount Vernon, New York. Out here in Westchester—
oliver
Money earnin’.
jason
Yes, sir. Westchester County kid my whole life. Just got obsessed with music and with sound at a very young age. I’m currently, the music director for Bushwick Brooklyn’s Bonfire Radio, and I host a show there which grew out of a podcast of the same name, Radio BSoTS, “BSoTS” standing for “both sides of the surface”, just trying to connect the dots between various genres of music—hip-hop, soul, jazz, funk, and electronic music. And that airs every other Friday night, on the station.
oliver
Most excellent! I like that.
morgan
Nice.
oliver
Why this album? ‘Cause when you gave us a list of stuff, this instantly jumped out at me, because—as I just mentioned—it’s the first album I ever bought. And so, Art of Noise In Visible Silence has a very, very dear place in my heart. Where does place in your listening history?
morgan
In Visible Silence is a big one for me. Like you Oliver, I bought this on cassette. And this album is really, really special to me, because I think it was my gateway into the avantgarde and to thinking about the manipulation of sound. And it’s kind of crazy that—so, you have the three members—Langan, Jeczalik, and Dudley, who I just think is the secret weapon for me. All three of them were hanging tough with producer Trevor Horn, who was basically well on his way to being a super producer at that point. Horn is the producer on those early Malcolm McLaren records. So, “Buffalo Gals”, “Double Dutch”, “World’s Famous”.
oliver
“Duck Rock”.
jason
Yeah! The whole Duck Rock album.
music
“Buffalo Gals” from the album Duck Rock by Malcolm McLaren. Three buffalo gals (Wahhh) go around the outside (Wahhh, wah, wah, wahhh) Four buffalo gals (Wahhh) go around the outside 'Round the outside (Wahhh), 'round the outside (Wahhh) Four buffalo gals go around the outside [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
jason
Horn’s the producer on Duck Rock. Gary Langan is the engineer. And he’s got Anne Dudley playing keyboards on stuff, and she’s got cowriting credits on a couple of tunes, including “Buffalo Gals”, including “World’s Famous”. That is definitely her playing piano on “World’s Famous”. All of this is even before “Beat Box” hits.
oliver
“Beat Box” being one of Art of Noise’s early hits from their first album.
jason
Yeah! I mean, and that’s how I would come to know them. I mean, around here in New York City radio, you can’t escape that song.
music
“Beat Box” from the album Daft by The Art of Noise. Oh no, I don't believe it! [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
That was my introduction to Art of Noise, “Beat Box” and also “Moments in Love”, but “Beat Box” more because I saw so many dudes like dance to it, pop lock to it. I saw a prolific crip walk on the street to it. [They laugh.]
oliver
It really strikes me too how this album and this sound—and this goes back to your point, Jason, about talking about how it was the introduction to avantgarde music. Because when I hear this—and hearing about all of our stories about how we were introduced to songs like “Beat Box” in the early part of the ’80s, I just think about the kind of primordial soup of sounds that were crossing over, especially in New York. When you think about the kind of uptown meets downtown scene and the ways that comes through in no wave and post punk music, which has its own configurations in places like Los Angeles and Chicago and Detroit as well is that you can have something like a “Beat Box” layering over with—okay, you know, Malcom McLaren, as you were saying, with early or late era disco rap, with—you know, the early kind of Run-D.M.C. drum machine hip-hop that was starting to pop out in the same time. And so, all of these things are kind of swimming together. And it maybe just this is my nostalgia for the past, I just feel like it kind of organically all worked together, simply because radio DJs had the freedom to be able to—again, go from Art of Noise in one cut to maybe a little bit of Grandmaster Flash in the next track to Blondie in the next one, then whatever.
morgan
Sure. And throw in some Kraftwerk, because it all was sort of a part of the same family. [They agree.]
jason
In Visible Silence and Kraftwerk’s Electric Café, I was bumping them both heavy in ’86.
oliver
One thing I wanna make clear—and Jason, I would love to get your thoughts on this, in terms of how you first experienced this album—is, as I mentioned, I picked it up mostly on the strength of hearing “Peter Gunn” and just really liking that single because I heard it on the radio. But when I picked up the album, I’m not sure if I’d heard anything else. Maybe I had heard “Legs” as well. But I certainly had not heard the first track, which is “Opus 4”, which we’ll listen to in just a moment. But just putting myself back into my—what? I would’ve been 13 or 14 years old—something like that intro track would’ve been unlike anything I would’ve heard before. And it probably blew my mind then, because when I was just listening to this again last night, it still blows my mind.
music
“Opus 4” from the album In Visible Silence by The Art of Noise. No sun, dusk, no sun No sun, dusk, no sun No sun, dusk, no sun No sun, dusk, no sun No sun, no morn, dusk, no sun, no moon No sun, no morn, dusk, no sun, no moon [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue.]
jason
What a way to usher you into the world of Art of Noise. You’re getting a sense that a transition is taking place. It’s not simply about the avantgarde meeting the accessible, but this is a through-point to help take us somewhere else. They’re not quite there yet, but they’re starting to go there. So, when “Opus 4” comes in with these beautiful, repeated vocals that are dancing around each other, and then you just hear these keyboard tones rise up—it’s like flower petals open.
music
[Volume increases.] No shade, (bees!) no shade, (bees!) no shade, (bees!) no shine, no birds No shade, (bees!) no shade, (bees!) no shade, (bees!) no shine, no birds (butterflies!) [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue.]
jason
Like your world just turns into this dazzling technicolor. It’s a prism kind of revolving around and light hitting it, and you’re finally seeing the ROYGBIV effect come out the other side. I mean, it’s not just an opening. It’s a gateway.
music
[Volume increases.] no shade, (bees!) no shine, no birds ... (butterflies!) No shade, (bees!) no shade, (bees!) (butterflies!) no shade, (bees!) no shine, no birds ... (butterflies!) No shade, (bees!) no shade, (bees!) (butterflies!) no shade [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue.]
morgan
You put it really poetically, which isn’t surprising because the whole song is based on a poem called “November”, and it’s basically describing like London weather. So, it’s a bit of a downer, but this guy was known for talking about London.
music
[Volume increases.] No shade, (bees!) no shade, (bees!) (butterflies!) no shade, (bees!) no shine, no birds November [Song ends.]
oliver
I just learned something! [Morgan laughs and affirms.] Morgan coming with facts, here!
jason
Yeah, that’s a new one on me. [Laughs.] That is definitely a new one on me.
oliver
The other thing I really enjoyed about listening to this album, both then and now, is just the sense of play. And when I was saying earlier about how there’s a lot of what to me feels like whimsy on this is you kind of imagine that the three folks who worked on this just in the studio, and they’re surrounded by all these different synthesizers and other equipment. And just getting a sense of what you can do with it. And I remember the first time I sat down with a synthesizer that had a vocal setting, basically, and that you could set the voice onto the keys so that you could play the piano, except instead of hearing piano sounds, you would hear a facsimile—a synthesized human voice. And there’s a lot of that on this album. And sometimes—and I’m sure there was a lot more technical work and editing and post-editing that went into it, but on some level, there’s something about the feel of certain songs in here, especially on a song like “Legs”, where you just kind of—the sense I get is that they’re just playing with stuff, seeing what sticks to the wall, and that there’s not—there wasn’t necessarily this ironclad gameplan that they went in with. It’s just they played their way through it.
music
“Legs” from the album In Visible Silence by The Art of Noise. Legs Legs Legs [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
jason
It’s not quite “Beat Box” 2.0. It’s something else. They’re playing around. They’re very much playing around with the sounds of the time. And just to bring things back to Trevor Horn for a moment, J. J. Jeczalik kind of learned the Fairlight sampler inside and out, because he was working so closely with Horn. Like, you could count the number of people in the UK who actually had a Fairlight sampler and not use all five fingers. And Trevor Horn was one of them.
oliver
For listeners who are not familiar with the Fairlight, it was one of the first major sampling synthesizers that got studio use. From what I know about it or its history, it was phenomenally expensive. So, it wasn’t like something that you could find in just any random studio. But because of its capabilities and that there was nothing quite anything like it on the market when I think it first emerged—probably around ’80 or ’81—it ends up on a lot of really pivotal recordings, including—if I’m not mistaken, I’m pretty sure Planet Rock was partially produced using a Fairlight.
music
“Planet Rock” from the album Planet Rock by Afrika Bambaataa & Soulsonic Force. [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
oliver
For folks who are gearheads, you see the Fairlight pop up a lot in that early ’80s, across the board in different countries, because of the fact that it was—really, there was nothing else like it, even if it was gonna have a five-digit price tag, or something astronomical like that.
morgan
I’d love to know who the other four were. [They laugh.] I’d love to know who’s other four— [Jason agrees.]
jason
Besides Trevor Horn.
morgan
Yeah, Jason, get that information and get back to us on that so we’ll know. Shout those—
jason
I’ll get right on that after this. [Laughs.]
morgan
Shout those consumers out.
oliver
So, Jason, given that you have—like I think both of us—been listening to this album for the first time perhaps in a while—maybe you actually listen to it all the time, but I’m wondering what do you hear now as opposed to what you heard when you first came across it back in ’86? What new things perhaps have emerged for you in those intervening 30+ years?
jason
When I go back, I can hear things that are distinctly ’80s about this album, now.
oliver
Some of the drum machines, certainly.
jason
Some of the drum machines, and then there are some chord hints and synth swells. Like, there’s a part that keeps coming around within the song “Backbeat”. You have this really frenetic, breakbeat style stuff happening that’s building up a lot of tension. And then, you just hear this crash of a drum pattern and a synths build up, and it’s just—I’m brought back to films like Chariots of Fire when I hear it. It just sounds so triumphant and motivational.
music
“Backbeat” from the album In Visible Silence by The Art of Noise. [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
oliver
I hate to say it, but now it sounds like a 1984 Olympics commercial. [They laugh.]
morgan
It does. [Chuckling.] Or American Express.
oliver
Or McDonalds or something. You know.
morgan
Yeah, keep going. You know what I mean? [Oliver agrees.] Speaking of ’80s—and I want to say that one thing that was very ’80s in listening back to this album and in prep for the chat, was “Paranoimia” with Max Headroom. [Oliver echoes the name and Jason agrees.] Because nothing says ’80s—now listen. [Oliver laughs.] Nothing says ’80s like Max Headroom. And it’s one of the most ’80s-sounding songs on this album.
music
“Paranoimia” from the album In Visible Silence by The Art of Noise. Paranoimia Paranoimia [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
And for those that don’t know, our youths, Christian—Max Headroom was—I mean, the people that created that character were way ahead of the curve, in terms of the artificial intelligence game. Right? He was a—he was a reporter, I think. His alter ego was Max Headroom. I think his name might have been Edison or something like that. I think so. And he was snarky. He was anti-media, which was crazy, ‘cause he was a reporter. But he showed up in everything. Like, everything ’80s. Go—you know, Max—
oliver
Back to the Future, right?
morgan
Yooo! Max Headroom t-shirts, MTV. So, yo, that took me back to my—
jason
Let’s not forget—let’s not forget the new coke commercials.
clip
[Record scratch.] Max Headroom: [Glitching into a stutter occasionally.] And when you first tried coke, I bet you said, “Uh-uh, not for me.” But heeeey! Let’s not let first impressions sway us! And let’s try coke-coke-coke again! Shall we? Because once you’ve acquired that new wave taste, you’re gonna wanna try it again and again and again. A-a-a coke’s delightful the second—catchy, isn’t it? Catch the wave! Coke!
morgan
And Max Headroom had his own TV series. So, he was big in the ’80s.
oliver
Yeah. And to your earlier point, Morgan—about just the particular time capsule that listening to the production on that song opens—the way it works, the synthesized vocals—it takes me to 1985’s “Oh Yeah” by Yello, which you’ve heard in 30 different movies in the ’80s. [They laugh.]
music
“Oh Yeah” from the album Stella by Yello. Oh yeah Oh yeah Oh yeah [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
I wanted to ask you about “Instruments of Darkness”. [Jason sighs happily.] Two things. One, had you heard the Prodigy remix? [Jason confirms.] How do you feel about it?
jason
Oh, the Prodigy remix is insane. But see, that’s the thing about me. I think—you know, it was works like this that got me ready for stuff like the Prodigy. [Morgan affirms.] My love for the Prodigy goes back to my first rave ever. I mean, that’s—so, you know, me dancing on top of a basement speaker at 1:30 in the morning to Prodigy’s “Rough in the Jungle Business”, like that’s how I got indoctrinated. So—
morgan
We gotta see pictures of that, Jason.
jason
Unfortunately, no. [Laughs.]
morgan
Mm-hm. Mmm-hm. Just as I thought.
music
“Instruments of Darkness (Prodigy Remix)” from the album In Visible Silence by The Art of Noise. All of us are one people (Noise, noise) All of us are one people (Noise, noise) All of us are one people (Noise, noise) All of us are one people [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
I mean, the video’s fire. It just gets you hyped up. And what I like about this song, besides their other little nod to poetry—‘cause “Instruments of Darkness” is from MacBeth—that they sample so many leaders at the end of the—all of the words are from leaders. One I think is the president of South Africa. There’s somebody else that’s like a labor party—so, it’s very, very layered. It’s not just a jam. There’s stuff that’s being said. I think the cover says something like we’re all one people. So, it’s not my favorite song, but the Prodigy remix took it over the edge for me, because it got me super-duper hyped.
jason
It was the reinterpretation that I never knew I needed. Absolutely incredible. I mean, that against the original version, it just—these two wonderful juxtapositions. And I think “Instruments of Darkness”, while not necessarily the greatest song on the album, it’s—it has its place. It’s this wonderful halfway point. You know? They’re not necessarily chopping that up in the same way that—in that same hyperactive sense. That they have their—you know, their stock sounds. You know. You can always go to certain things. [Sings a few bars.] “Oh, oh, oh, oh.” It’s all over the place. You know, had they run that course of novelty long enough, people would be uttering them in the same breath as the singing dogs doing their own version of “Jingle Bells”. [Oliver chuckles.] So, thankfully, they didn’t push it that far. But you know, I think they played just enough to have fun, but they also know when to reel it in. And “Instruments of Darkness” is a great example of restraint by the group, because they understand that the vocal pieces that they have are so strong on their own, that they just wanna put it within a sonic atmosphere that supports the strength of those voices and what those voices are saying.
oliver
And also—I could be wrong with this, because my memory’s not great—but I don’t know if I had an idea of apartheid before this song. [Morgan agrees.] And for an album that has not necessarily “light” in terms of superficial moments, but this was definitely a shift in tone and just in a lot of ways, it does feel a little bit like an aberration on—compared to the rest of the album. Not in a bad way, but it’s sort of like—it’s like the message song they wanted to put in here that you—that, coming out of everything else both before and after it, you aren’t expecting it. [Morgan confirms.]
music
“Instruments of Darkness” from the album In Visible Silence by The Art of Noise. …that South Africa consists of a white minority and a black majority Never …and a black majority Never Never [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
oliver
We will be back with more of our conversation with Heat Rocks listener Jason Randall Smith after a brief word from some of our sibling Max Fun podcasts. Keep it locked.
music
“Crown Ones” off the album Stepfather by People Under the Stairs.
promo
Music: Faint, suspenseful violin music in background. Justin McElroy: We’re the hosts of My Brother, My Brother and Me, and now—nearly ten years into our podcast—the secret can be revealed. All the clues are in place. And the world’s greatest treasure hunt can now begin. Griffin McElroy: Embedded in each episode of My Brother, My Brother and Me is a micro-clue that will lead you to 14 precious gemstones, all around this big, beautiful blue world of ours. Travis McElroy: So, start combing through the episodes—eh, let’s say—starting at episode 101 on. Griffin: Yeah, the early episodes are pretty problematic, so there’s no clues in those episodes. Travis: No. No, not at all. Griffin: The better ones—the good ones? Clues ahoy. Justin McElroy: Listen to every episode repeatedly in sequence. Laugh if you must, but mainly, get all the great clues. My Brother, My Brother and Me: it’s an advice show, kind of, but a treasure hunt, mainly. Anywhere you find podcasts or treasure maps, My Brother, My Brother and Me—the hunt is on! [Music fades out.]
promo
Music: Upbeat, cheerful music plays in the background. Allie Goertz: Hi, I'm Allie Goertz! Julia Prescott: And I'm Julia Prescott. And we host— Both: —Round Springfield! Julia: Round Springfield is a new Simpsons podcast that is Simpsons-adjacent— Allie: Mm-hm. Julia: —um, in its topic. We talk to Simpsons writers, directors, voiceover actors, you name it, about non-Simpsons things that they've done. Because, surprise! They're all extremely talented. Allie: Absolutely. For example, David X. Cohen worked on The Simpsons, but then created a little show called Futurama! Julia: Mm-hm! Allie: That's our very first episode. Julia: Yeah! Allie: So tune in for stuff like that with Yeardley Smith, with Tim Long, with different writers and voice actors. It's gonna be so much fun, and we are every other week on MaximumFun.org or wherever you get your podcasts! [Music fades out.]
music
“Crown Ones” off the album Stepfather by People Under the Stairs.
morgan
And we are back on Heat Rocks, talking Art of Noise with our listener, Jason Randall Smith.
oliver
Jason, as a longtime listener, you know that you had to prepare an answer to what I’m about to ask. [They chuckle.] Which is: what, to you, is the fire track off of this album? [Morgan confirms.]
jason
“Camilla”. [They both “oooh” excitedly.]
morgan
Yes! A man after my own heeeart!
jason
“Camilla”. “Camilla – The Old, Old Story”. [Morgan agrees emphatically.]
music
“Camilla – The Old, Old Story” from the album In Visible Silence by The Art of Noise. [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue.]
jason
You’re floating. You’re floating the entire time. You’re anchored by the bongos, the bass, the hushed synth tones that sound like breaths, and slightly tuned so that they can hit the notes that they need to hit. But everything around it is just—it’s exquisite.
music
[Volume increases.] [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
To me, it’s the most placement-ready. [Jason laughs.] And so, I cannot wait to pitch that one. Gotta be careful about where and how I use it. And it’s also one of my favorite—it has my favorite moment in the album, and that’s the place that Christian just played, because when it changes up—and I’d say the difference between that and “Moments of Love” is “Camilla” feels more singular and more intimate than “Moments of Love”.
jason
It is make-out mixtape worthy. [Morgan agrees.] And it has been from the moment that it hit. Interestingly enough, since we do have a music supervisor among us, back in 1987, there was a movie called Cracked Up that aired on ABC. It was all about this high school track star that got addicted to crack cocaine. [Morgan laughs a surprised “yo”.] Ed Asner played the boy’s father.
morgan
[Through laughter.] I remember that!
jason
Now, wait. I’m in—I’m in ninth grade. I’ve—maybe it was my health class. And they showed this on the TV and the VCR, the whole bit. And it gets to the part in the movie where that high school kid who eventually gets addicted and this boy go out. They meet an older woman, played by Kim Delaney, by the way. Somehow or another, they ended up back at her place. She comes out with this silver plate with the pipe on it and the substance. And “Camilla” starts playing. I kid you not.
clip
Jackie (Cracked Up): Showtime, guys. Come on over. Music: “Camilla” by The Art of Noise. Jackie: Ladies first. Speaker: What do you say, kid? Wanna take a trip to Bolivia?
morgan
Yo!
jason
I kid you not.
oliver
Wait, hold up. What about this song says “crack”?! Heroin maybe, but crack?! [Jason squeaks with laughter.]
morgan
I’m saying! And I’m like, now how can I top that?! [Oliver laughs.] The bar’s so low, though. I guess I could place it against anything to just—I hope I can remake this memory for you, though. [Laughs.] So, that when you see whatever it is—
jason
Wait, wait. It gets—it—it gets better. Every time that this kid goes back to use, you hear that little bit of [mimics one of the synthesized voices].
morgan
That’s terrible. [They laugh.]
jason
Every time he goes back to hit the pipe. [Mimics the voice again.] Honest to god.
clip
Music: “Camilla” by The Art of Noise intercuts the solemn background music with the same sound Jason’s been mimicking.
oliver
In ’86, my fire track would’ve been “Peter Gunn”, because that was the jam that got me into this album. [Morgan confirms.] But in 2020—and it’s interesting, Jason, because really the two songs I was choosing between—“Camilla” was—it came close. But I ended up settling with, for my fire track it’s “Eye Of a Needle”. [They agree excitedly.] And they’re very similar songs. They’re the two ballads. They’re so mellow. And “Eye Of a Needle” in particular strikes me as sort of the greatest Japanese video game music soundtrack that never existed. It just kind of has that feel. [Jason laughs.]
music
“Eye Of a Needle” from the album In Visible Silence by The Art of Noise. [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
Oh, yes.
oliver
I think it’s definitely the xylophone that really does it. But again, you gotta remember, where this is sequenced in the album you have—you’ve got “Opus 4” to open with. That then goes into “Paranoimia”. And then—so, you go from this weird vocal overlap repetition thing, that poem, as Morgan was letting us know about. Then you go into a very up-tempo, super ’80s dance jam. And then, “Eye Of a Needle” comes on at track number three. And at this point, I’m just getting whiplash as a listener.
music
“Eye Of a Needle” from the album In Visible Silence by The Art of Noise. [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
jason
It’s definitely one of my favorites. It’s a lounge lizard’s scene if the painting were done by Salvador Dali. [Oliver laughs.] I mean, it’s this beautiful, delicate balance between novelty and subtly. [Oliver agrees.] The percussion is like table tennis. [Clicks his tongue to mimic the beat as the music fades in.]
music
“Eye Of a Needle” from the album In Visible Silence by The Art of Noise. [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
jason
All of it. It’s—yeah, it’s one of my all-time favorite pieces from them.
oliver
Morgan, what’s your fire track off of here?
morgan
It was “Camilla”.
oliver
It was “Camilla” as well?
morgan
Mm-hm. Uh-huh. “Camilla”, and the second one was gonna be “Eye Of a Needle”, for all the things that you just said. But I just think that—I think that they’re both pretty sexy.
oliver
I like that we all went with the mellow—the mellow tracks on here. [Morgan agrees.] This all said, my favorite moment—and Morgan, you shared your favorite moment a moment ago. For me, it does come back to “Peter Gunn”. And it’s basically what I now could describe as the bridge or even as a breakbeat, but I didn’t have any of that musical language back in ’86 when I heard it. But it’s the moment in which the guitar comes back just by itself and then they gradually layer in the percussion.
music
“Peter Gunn” from the album In Visible Silence by The Art of Noise. [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
oliver
I forgot to mention I was really into this song too because I’m pretty sure this was the theme on Spy Hunter, the video game. [They confirm.] So, that’s where I mostly would have heard some version of this. So—but yeah, that’s my favorite moment. Jason, do you have a favorite moment on here?
jason
“Slip of the Tongue”. It’s just a minute and a half, but that song in its entirety, right between “Legs” and “Backbeat”, it’s probably my favorite moment. Like, the fact that you don’t really get time to breathe as “Legs” ends and “Slip of the Tongue” begins. They shoutout “legs” twice and you’re right in it.
music
“Legs” from the album In Visible Silence by The Art of Noise. Legs Legs [One track fades seamlessly into the other.]
music
“Slip of the Tongue” from the album In Visible Silence by The Art of Noise. [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
jason
The crazy thing about “Slip of the Tongue” is, you know, after the euphoria of “Legs”, you’re kind of in this swirling, foreboding place.
music
“Slip of the Tongue” from the album In Visible Silence by The Art of Noise. Just a slip of the, just a slip of the Just a slip of the, just a slip of the Just a slip of the, just a slip of the Just a slip of the, just a slip of the [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
jason
“Slip of the Tongue” is definitely my—represents my favorite moment.
oliver
So industrial!
jason
Yeah! That’s exactly what I was thinking. It’s almost industrial in nature.
oliver
Jason, what song would you play for someone who had never heard this album? What do you think should be the proper introduction for them to just absorb Art of Noise or, in particular, In Visible Silence?
jason
Hm. “Eye Of a Needle” is good because, you know, it probably negotiates their silliness and their substance the best.
oliver
That’s a great description. I think that’s exactly right.
music
“Eye Of a Needle” from the album In Visible Silence by The Art of Noise. [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
oliver
The one thing that also both of you had mentioned—the similarities between this song, “Camilla”, and “Moments of Love”. And “Moments of Love” was from the previous Art of Noise album, when they had their original crew. It occurred to me that if I had heard In Visible Silence having already been a fan of their first album, Who’s Afraid of Art of Noise?, I don’t know how I would’ve taken this. And I was reading some of the comments made, and I can’t remember which of the original members who ended up being very disgruntled with the direction the group went in after this person left. But he basically suggested that they just turned into a novelty group, effectively. And while I don’t agree with that, it is notable that because this was my introduction to the group, this was the sound. And then when I go backwards and listen to their earlier stuff, a song like “Moments of Love”, you can make—I think—the connection between the style and sound of it with a song like “Camilla” or “Eye Of a Needle”.
music
“Moments in Love” from the album Into Battle with The Art of Noise by The Art of Noise. Moments [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
oliver
“Moments of Love” does not feel diminished to me in any way, simply because I listened to it after the fact. But I wonder if I had flipped it around how I might feel in the other direction. It’s not that I dislike it. I just wouldn’t really turn to it. I would turn to In Visible Silence first, because this is the album that I know. It’s the album that lured me in, and I kind of feel—for other people who would’ve been fans of Who’s Afraid of Art of Noise? first, I wonder how they would have approached this album and the similarities and differences between those two LPs.
morgan
Yeah. And there were some parts of “Moments of Love” that ended up just being sort of kitschy, because it showed up in a lot of places. There was like a commercial for a best hits album, and “Moments of Love” was always in it. So, it lost its value, which made—in prep for this chat—listening to this album again and listening to “Camilla” seem a lot more sophisticated. Although there are similarities, “Camilla” seemed more sophisticated, because Art of Noise had become—“Moments in Love” had become this thing that was just like this slow burn, showed up on a commercial type of jam.
oliver
See, you didn’t see Cracked Up in your high school health class.
morgan
This is true. This is true. [Jason laughs.]
oliver
Which would’ve changed your opinion about “Camilla”, I think.
morgan
This is true. This is true. Shout out to Cracked Up. Shout out to Ed and whoever’s baby it was with the silver platter. Kim Delaney.
jason
Unreal.
oliver
I’m assuming if Ed Asner was the dad, I’m assuming the kid was White. And I’m just—thank you ABC for subverting racist expectations. You know? [Morgan agrees.]
jason
Yeah. They really do—they really do need to be shouted out for that. [Chuckles.]
morgan
Yeah. Finish this sentence for me, Jason. Art of Noise In Visible Silence is for people who—
jason
Are looking to get more experimental but they need an accessible way to get there.
oliver
Oh, that’s good. That’s good. Jason, if you had to describe In Visible Silence in three words—and you can’t use “in” or “visible” or “silence”. [Morgan and Jason laugh.] Or “art” or “of” or “noise”.
jason
Uh-oh.
morgan
Or Cracked Up.
oliver
[Laughing.] Or Cracked Up. What would you—what would you go with?
jason
Hmmm. Bordering on brilliance.
oliver
Bordering on brilliance! I like that. So, you don’t think it actually just is straight up brilliance. It doesn’t cross the border into brilliance? [Morgan laughs.] It’s just kind of on the sides, hoping to get past immigration control. [They laugh.]
jason
It’s on its way there! And that’s why I call this a transition record. Because the albums that come after this, In No Sense, Nonsense, and Below the Waste—by the time they get to Below the Waste, they’re in a modern classical place. [Oliver agrees.] The groove is still there, because if anything I think defines The Art of Noise it’s—you know, it’s a celebration of the groove. But also, it’s about the experiments that are happening around that groove. And that’s why I think Anne Dudley is so important. You know, by the time Below the Waste happens, Gary Langan’s out of the picture. So, it’s just Anne and J.J.. And Anne is so accomplished as a pianist and a composer that it continues to show up more and more in the music. So, In Visible Silence is this—is this gateway point between the humor and the sometimes novelty in the play. But they’re working towards a more multidimensional aspect of who they are and who they’re becoming.
oliver
Damn! This is such a thoughtful set of remarks that we have from our guest today!
music
“Beat Back” from the album In Visible Silence by The Art of Noise. [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
oliver
Last thing here is for listeners who really enjoyed today’s pick, in terms of In Visible Silence, what should be next on their listening list? How about you, Morgan? You wanna start us off?
morgan
Man, in thinking about this, there were so many places that I wanted to go. What I settled on was the 1981 album from YELLOW MAGIC ORCHESTRA, called Technodelic. The band was started in Tokyo in 1978. Some of their early material was supposed to satire, sort of they’re joking about cocktail lounges and exotica music. And it ended up being this: a blend of electronica and vocals and very cool music. So, if you had—they had several albums, but this is one of my favorites. And if you had to start the album with a song, do “Stairs” or “Soul Music” and keep going. It is delicious.
music
“Stairs” from the album Technodelic by YELLOW MAGIC ORCHESTRA. Are they moving, are they still? The stairs go on forever [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
oliver
For me, I’m gonna dip back to something I mentioned earlier, which is I really think about a lot of the Moog albums—M-O-O-G. Which was a groundbreaking synthesizer from the late 1960s. And you could certainly do worse than going with Jean-Jacques Perrey’s Moog Indigo from 1970. And JJP, as I call him, because I’m close to him like that. [Morgan and Jason laugh.] He was one of the giants of French electronic music and rose to fame in the ’60s, largely on the basis of his experimental electronic pop LPs. Moog Indigo would become, as far as I know, probably his biggest hit for a variety of reasons, but I think everyone in my generation, their introduction to this album came through Gang Starr, because they sampled “E.V.A.”, which is off of this album. And “E.V.A.” is just—regardless of how many times it’s been sampled, and it’s been sampled a lot—but “E.V.A.” just stands alone on its own as being just a fire track using the Moog.
music
“E.V.A.” from the album Moog Indigo by Jean-Jacques Perrey. [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
And I just wanted to add one more thing, because Oliver mentioned samples, that J Dilla sampled YELLOW MAGIC ORCHESTRA’s “Rap Phenomena” for his song “Go Get ‘Em”.
music
“Rap Phenomena” from the album BGM by YELLOW MAGIC ORCHESTRA. [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
And they were a heavy influence not only on J Dilla, but also they were covered by Michael Jackson and also they had a lot to do with Detroit and the sound of Detroit and techno. A lot of DJs influenced by them.
oliver
Jason, what would be your recommendation for the next listen after In Visible Silence?
jason
In keeping with The Art of Noise, I really would like to recommend The Ambient Collection, which came out in 1990. You get a couple of songs from In Visible Silence. You get “Camilla” and “Eye Of a Needle” and “Opus 4” as well as a few songs from the two albums after that. It also closes out with this beautiful piece, called “Art of Love”, which actually takes little bits from various different songs, including “Camilla”. It is lovingly compiled by Youth, who was a part of Killing Joke and worked closely with Alex Paterson as the—uh, during his time in the orb. So, it all has that chill out, essential vibe to it. Everything just flows seamlessly together.
music
“Art of Love” from the album The Ambient Collection by The Art of Noise. You were right [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
oliver
That will do it for this episode of Heat Rocks with our listener friend, Jason Randall Smith. [Theme music fades in.] Thank you so much for joining us today. Where can people find out more about you and the stuff you’re working on?
jason
You can find me on Twitter @JasonRSmith73. You can also find the show, Radio BSoTS, on Twitter and Instagram. BSoTS—B-S-O-T-S.
oliver
And hey, if you ever need some guest DJs for that show, give me and Morgan a holler.
morgan
[Laughs.] For sure.
jason
Oh, most definitely. I am—seeing as how I am a Worldwide FM devotee, I’ve been listening to those sets for Artform Radio, so I definitely gotta give Oliver a shout. [Morgan agrees.] Been listening to some of those absolutely wonderful sets out of the Artform studio from you. [Oliver thanks him.] Top notch. Five star.
morgan
Indeed, indeed. And thank you so much for always shouting us out and always holding us down. We do see your tweets, so we do appreciate the tweezies and the retweezies.
jason
Gotta do it whenever—you know, on social media, we tend to have a preoccupation with hot takes rather than deep dives. [Morgan agrees.] So, it’s always nice when people take the time to dive deep. And you two have been diving deep ever since you brought Joi in to talk about Betty Davis, and I thank you for it. Please keep it coming.
morgan
Thank you so much. Appreciate you, man.
music
“Crown Ones” off the album Stepfather by People Under the Stairs. [Music continues under the dialogue.]
oliver
You’ve been listening to Heat Rocks with me, Oliver Wang, and Morgan Rhodes.
morgan
Our theme music is “Crown Ones” by Thes One of People Under the Stairs. Shout out to Thes for the hookup.
oliver
Heat Rocks is produced by myself and Morgan, alongside Christian Dueñas, who also edits, engineers, and does the booking for our shows.
morgan
Our senior producer is Laura Swisher, and our executive producer is Jesse Thorn.
oliver
We are part of the Maximum Fun family, taping every week live in their studios in the Westlake neighborhood of Los Angeles. [Music fades out.]
sound effect
Cheerful ukulele chord.
speaker 2
Comedy and culture.
speaker 3
Artist owned—
speaker 4
—audience supported.
About the show
Hosted by Oliver Wang and Morgan Rhodes, every episode of Heat Rocks invites a special guest to talk about a heat rock – a hot album, a scorching record. These are in-depth conversations about the albums that shape our lives.
Our guests include musicians, writers, and scholars and though we don’t exclusively focus on any one genre, expect to hear about albums from the worlds of soul, hip-hop, funk, jazz, Latin, and more.
New episodes every Thursday on Apple Podcasts or whatever you get your podcasts.
Subscribe to our website updates for exclusive bonus content (including extra interview segments, mini-episodes, etc.)
Meanwhile, you can email us at heatrockspod@gmail.com or follow us on social media:
People
How to listen
Stream or download episodes directly from our website, or listen via your favorite podcatcher!
