Transcript
music
“Crown Ones” off the album Stepfather by People Under The Stairs
oliver wang
Hello, I’m Oliver Wang.
morgan rhodes
And I’m Morgan Rhodes. You’re listening to Heat Rocks. Every episode we invite a guest to join us to talk about a heat rock. You know, fire, an album that bumps eternally. And today we’ll be weaving through a dream in order to revisit Minnie Riperton’s debut 1970 album Come To My Garden.
music
“Come To My Garden” off the album Come To My Garden by Minnie Riperton. Gentle, tender, melodic singing. Come to my garden Let the stars fill your eyes Come to my garden And walk with me Come to my garden... [Music fades out as Morgan speaks]
morgan
On the second track from Minnie Riperton’s debut album, released in the late fall of 1970, “Completeness”, it begins this way: “You are my completeness, beloved. Every breath of you is my life. Thrill me with your own lover’s magic. Let me know that I’m alive.” Magic just has to be one of the words used to describe this album, and here are a few good reasons. 2120 South Michigan Avenue gets mentioned often, a place prolific enough to be considered a Chicago landmark. Where albums from Howlin’ Wolf, Muddy Waters, and Willie Dixon, and The Rotary Connection were recorded. An address prolific enough to have its own song, an instrumental by the Rolling Stones, included on their 1964 album, 5x5. Come To My Garden was a magic bus of talent, a seemingly perfect angel with an otherworldly whistle register, and a pocket full of lyrics like sonnets that floated out of her mouth and into our consciousness. Alongside Charles Stepney, Ramsey Lewis, Elsa Harris, and Maurice White, they were arguably the best starting five to come out of Chicago. [Oliver hums in agreement.]
morgan
Chicago pre-Ye and Chance, pre-Twista and Jay Hudson, pre-Common and No I.D. Come To My Garden is a liberating sensual experience. Big, booming, and baroque, sweeping with strings and choruses, a mythical place where melodies reside alongside bees and things and flowers. Shout-out to Roy. I’d say it’s a visual experience, but in my experience it’s best listened to with your eyes closed, so you can soar through Centerville’s rainy day and into Les Fleurs. So you can feel the love she loves to sing about. So you can feel it spiritually, which brings me to this. Whether intentional or a divine, happy accident, so much of this album feels like Song of Solomon. A poem about desire, sensuality, and the soul, where a woman’s self-description, just like in the scriptures, includes her own, quote, “sun-born Blackness.” With its drama and its built-in cinematography, Minnie Riperton and Charles Stepney made me an offer I couldn’t refuse. Just like God said to Adam and Eve, “Come to my garden. What awaits you, adventures in paradise.”
music
“Oh By The Way” off the album Come To My Garden by Minnie Riperton. Grand, melodic music. [Singers harmonizing. Music plays for several seconds, then fades out]
oliver
Come To My Garden was the album pick of our guest today. One of the greatest talents ever to come out of the City of Angels, and the pride of Locke High School, Patrice Rushen. I had the honor and privilege to interview her a few months back to help write the liner notes for a re-issue of her hit 1982 heat rock, Straight from the Heart, which just came out on Vinyl Me, Please. And in there, I try to make very clear that if you want to understand the import of Patrice, you really have to turn to the history of American pop music, especially in R&B, and try to find how many other people are as multi-hyphenate as she is. She’s musician, singer, writer, arranger, producer, composer, musical director, professor. You name it, she has done it and then some, across her nearly 50 year career. I assume her students at UFC call her Professor Rushen, but I think she’s earned the right to be named on a single name basis alongside the likes of Stevie, Curtis, or Quincy. Patrice, welcome to Heat Rocks.
patrice rushen
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
oliver
So, let’s start with this: why did you want to talk about Minnie Riperton, and in particular, why Come To My Garden?
patrice
[Oliver hums along in agreement multiple times as Patrice is speaking.] Well, the Come To My Garden album really was uh, a game changer for me. I originally wanted to be a film composer, so I was always attracted to textures inside of orchestration, and of course because I loved uh, dance music and R&B, as well as jazz, whenever I heard anything that uh, blended or seemed to address any one of those areas, it caught my attention. And this album was pivotal for me, because Charles Stepney had always been one of those arrangers and orchestrators that I began to understand had—had that—those sensibilities. Total command of those sensibilities, to be able to work with groups like Earth, Wind & Fire, and with Ramsey Lewis, and Soulful Strings, meant that he understood very, very clearly the African and Africa-American diaspora, but that he had total command of orchestration and of rhythms, and certain kinds of textures, and attitudes that weren’t typically a part of music that we would classify as being more urban or classify as being Black or classify as being R&B or pop. So Minnie Riperton, her style of singing, I became aware of her when she was with the group Rotary Connection, and um, her voice, the clarity and purity of her sound, and it was not a huge, huge voice. And we typically would associate a certain kind of soulfulness and feeling with a larger kind of voice, but all of those elements were there in this sound that was so pure and clear. And the positioning of her extended register and how fluidly she could use it as her instrument of expression. You get those two elements together, of Stepney and Riperton, doing almost what’s an art book, art song book. And I was totally hooked, and in listening to it, it really validated that it’s okay to love a lot of different things, and in the hybridity of those things, celebrate something that comes out of that. Which is, again, different and beautiful.
music
“Oh By The Way” plays again. Only in the time it takes to tell you For not to tell, but to know is wrong Only in the time it takes to want you I've known it all by myself... [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]
oliver
Patrice, you mentioned that you had already been familiar with at least some of Stepney and Riperton’s sound because of the work that they did with Rotary Connection. I found this quote someplace where Chess Records, that Rotary Connection was signed to, or one of their sub-labels, that concept. But they describe the band members as, quote, “The hottest, most Avant Garde rock guys in Chicago.” Unquote. [Morgan and Patrice laugh.] And in thinking about Rotary Connection, not necessarily their sound, but what they represented, their composition as being a very notably multiracial band. They were sort of like Chicago’s version of what Sly and the Family Stone was doing in the Bay Area. Morgan, what was your introduction to Minnie? Was it through Rotary Connection first?
morgan
You know, actually I heard—the first song I remember hearing was “Loving You” as a little kid.
oliver
Sure, big hit.
morgan
It played on the radio here, which was 103.9 KACE, and then I’d hear it on KGFJ. So that was my introduction. I came to Rotary Connection later, and I came backwards. I came through, in fact, Masters At Work, who redid “Black Gold of the Sun”.
music
“I Am The Black Gold of the Sun (Remix)” off the album Nuyorican Soul by Masters At Work. Upbeat psychedelic soul. I am the black gold of the sun I am the black gold of the sun [Music fades out as Morgan speaks]
morgan
And so, which led me down the road of sort of researching, “Who is this and what is this sound?” And that’s when I discovered Rotary Connection and in turn, that’s when I started to discover the whole psychedelic, orchestral soul thing. That, for me, was a revelation. Not just the sound of it, but to your point, sort of the multiracial band. I just didn’t know of that before, and I came to know more about it sort of through Sly and the Family Stone, sort of that sound. But this, for me, was my introduction to Minnie Riperton, and what an introduction it was.
oliver
Right. Patrice, to come back to you for a moment here, because you were are already familiar with Rotary Connection, were you really anticipating this specific album? And we always like asking this, how did you actually listen to it? Did you buy it on, I’m guessing probably vinyl LP, because I don’t think cassettes were that big yet in 1970. But if you bought it, where did you get it from, how did you first listen to this?
patrice
The Come To My Garden album was uh, was introduced to me by a friend. To your point about the different musics that were going on and what people were doing right around that same time, with Sly—see, Sly was out here, and I’m from Los Angeles. So I know exactly what you mean in terms of everything was beginning to change with this coming together of different types of people, working in these bands where heretofore it had been pretty segregated. And I think where people lived and where they were from was also part of their sound, so there was what—the thing Sly was doing, that was very Bay Area based. And then it was not a surprise that those people, as you call it, sort of the cadet area, they were Midwest. They were all from the same area, and I think that you know, you can’t escape also hearing the kinds of influences that came out of that area, even though they were doing some weird things. That was a great time, I think. Things were opening up so that the idea of what it was to be able to make music um, there were pioneers that just went for it. They weren’t looking necessarily for things to have to be commercially successful. Not that they didn’t appreciate it when it was, but the impetus wasn’t that. It was just about the music, and making stuff happen.
morgan
And speaking about Posh, I read a great quote where he said, “With the dream, I had been listening to Minnie Riperton’s Come To My Garden, one of my favorite albums. With Charles Stepney’s arrangements, I saw that he didn’t have to use large instrumentation to be orchestral in his approach, so the dream was an homage to that kind of writing.” What is it about—what was it about Come To My Garden that inspired you? Especially in terms of your own writing and production. What is the Charles Stepney touch on this album that effected you?
patrice
His orchestration never fought the pulse of any song that he wrote on. And when I say that, that’s—it’s a little bit different, because Come To My Garden obviously were his pieces, but where I began—where I was aware of him, became aware of him, was the writing that he was doing as an arranger for other people. And back then, the um, horns or strings or whatever was added, was added in an overdub situation where most of the time the rhythm section had been recorded together, and then if there were extras like horns or strings or vibes or this or that, they were overdubbed separately. But his writing always sounded organic. It always sounded like everybody was in the room at the same time, and that’s because he was so masterful at his selections in terms of how he used space, the selection in terms of what instruments were going to compliment best the song, and definitely the lines and the use of harmony always was an enhancement. Never a fight. You know, like, look at me, look at me. That was impressive to me. So when I heard Come To My Garden and I could hear it being so, so organic if you will, because as a writer, as a composer, you typically think in terms of the composition itself, and your imagination very quickly gets into what instruments would best suit what I’m trying to say. And that’s a little bit of a different process, and one that great orchestrators have together. They have memorized the sound and the textures of all of the instruments, and when they’re writing, they’re writing hearing that. And to be able to hear that orchestral mastery in the context of music that was based in the Black vernacular, game changer for me.
music
“Only When I’m Dreaming” off the album Come To My Garden by Minnie Riperton. Gentle yet somewhat excited instrumentals.
morgan
Another quote about Stepney was from the Guardian, and it said that Charles Stepney was a fabulously cantankerous genius, who dismissed critics who accused him of overproduction. That he was inspired by jazz rather than funk, and strings rather than synths, and his vision of psychedelic soul was about spiritual elevation. So a lot to say about his process and what he brought to this, and as I was sort of saying in the intro, a lot of this album feels very spiritual to me. That’s how I received it. When I first heard it, that’s how I received it, this morning in prep for the chat.
patrice
Mm-hm. I believe that’s why he attracted certain kinds of artists and musicians to him, based in that fearlessness and always finding ways and resonating with his own truth to resonate with that truth in yourself. You know, it took me a long, long time to finally be in a situation where I thought I was gonna meet him. Earth, Wind & Fire was recording in town. Earth, Wind & Fire played my high school prom. [Oliver busts out laughing.]
morgan
Whaaat? Wow!
oliver
Oh my god!
patrice
They used to rehearse you know, as a band, starting out, struggling, you know, they used to rehearse periodically at our high school. They knew our high school band director. Our band director, Reggie Andrews—who was the one who introduced me to Come To My Garden, by the way, and became my first producer—he would ask the kids, “Go help them take their stuff out the car, put their stuff in the garage, put their stuff in the auditorium, so that they—help them get set up, and pay attention and watch.” And that’s what we would do. And they couldn’t pay us, and so what they did instead was they played a set at our high school prom. So I’ve known those guys for a long time, and when they would record in Los Angeles, or be rehearsing as they got bigger and bigger and bigger, periodically they would allow for some of the kids that they had met to go by and watch. And the day that I was gonna go to the studio to observe a little bit, Stepney went into the hospital and passed away. So I didn’t have that opportunity to tell him how much his music had transformed my thinking in terms of the way I would approach arranging.
morgan
I was gonna say, just mention you said something about—that I really love about how much—how many influences Charles Stepney brought to his arrangements, and I grew up a lot listening to Earth, Wind & Fire because it was my father’s favorite band. He loved jazz fusion and outside of that he wasn’t listening to the Weather Report or early Miles. It was Earth, Wind & Fire, period. And so I feel like I came to know Charles Stepney through Earth, Wind & Fire, that I started to understand a little bit more about what Black music could be, what soul music could be. That it could be all these things, that it could be big and sweeping and dramatic and gospel-y and soul-y. So to your point, I think Charles Stepney, what I learned about him is there isn’t just one way of doing soul music. There’s a whole lot of things that you can put into that soup, and I learned it before I even got to Minnie Riperton. I learned it first through Earth, Wind & Fire, particularly those early albums.
music
“That’s the Way of the World” off the album That’s the Way of the World by Earth, Wind & Fire. Mid-tempo soul with multilayered vocals. ...with a heart of gold Way of the world makes his heart so cold Hearts of fire, love desire [Music fades out as Oliver speaks\
oliver
And it’s worth noting for listeners there, if you have not heard our conversation with Raphael Saadiq from last summer where we talk about That’s the Way of the World by Earth, Wind & Fire, we go on a long Charles Stepney tangent there. And I want to come back to something that both of the two of you have said, which is that his understanding of instrumentation. And for this album, of course, one of the greatest instruments he had is Minnie Riperton and her voice. And I was thinking about how, especially throughout the 1970s, singers like Deniece Williams, singers like Patrice Rushen for example, who had these lighter, higher voices, made for a very stark contrast for what I think of as the 60s Aretha era of soul sangers. Right, not soul singers, sangers. Yeah. [Morgan and Patrice affirm.] And for that, Minnie, even amongst people that she’s sometimes compared to, to me has always struck me as being unique, partly because her range, of course, is really unparalleled for—at least within pop music. I’m sure there's opera singers who can do the same thing. But you are not hearing that kind of range in pop music at that time, and in particular, the use of that whistle register that is—it doesn’t feel human on some level, because it just gets to that high point. So can we talk a little bit, as a—just in terms of a sound and as an instrument, what makes and what made Riperton so distinctive and how she was able to deploy her voice, least of all on this album.
patrice
You know, as great singers go, she was also a very fine technician. Because it’s a lot of practice and muscle memory and focus and you know, singers—you know, I bow down to them. And I say them, because I still see myself as an instrumentalist who sings. That’s different from a singer for me. Singers have some unique issues that they have to live with. They wake up every day and they don’t know what kind of instrument they have. See, at lest when I go to the piano, I can have a headache, stomach ache, leg hurt, whatever. I can press the key down and I can get something. So for her to be the kind of technician also who could place her voice where she needed it to be or where she wanted it to be at a given time and um, you know, the right amount of air and the right amount of compression and the right amount of—that’s a big deal right there. Then you add to it the musicality, the gift of storytelling that comes out of her delivery. Which involves, yet again, another layer of what it means to be a great singer. And all the singers that you mentioned, Aretha and you know, you could just—any great singer, they also have an element of storytelling in their delivery of the words. And to be able to capture that and make it somewhat personal and then find the way to execute, all of that is going on with every line that you hear.
morgan
I think one of my favorite sort of showcases for that whistle register on this album is the track “Expecting”.
music
“Expecting” off the album Come To My Garden by Minnie Riperton. Triumphant, passionate vocalizing over grand instrumentals.
morgan
I mean, it just—she floats. Um, she starts out big with the benefit of those drums—I mean, shout-out to Maurice White—and then she just floats out of it. So as you were mentioning, control, I mean I’m not a singer. It’s a concept I really don’t understand except theoretically. But on that track, it’s just like—I don’t know how many takes there were. If it was one take, what was going on in the room. But she makes me feel like I’m flying, especially on that song, which is so mythical to me. I don’t even really know what she’s talking about. She’s talking about sixteen. But it makes me feel like I’m being told a story, and I think the perfect compliment of that instrumentation, as you mentioned, and as Oliver mentioned, and that register is just—it’s just the one-two punch.
oliver
Well, we will be back with more of our conversation with Patrice Rushen about Minnie Riperton’s Come To My Garden after a brief word form some of our sibling Max Fun podcasts. Keep it locked.
music
“Crown Ones” off the album Stepfather by People Under The Stairs.
promo
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music
“Crown Ones” off the album Stepfather by People Under The Stairs
morgan
And we are back on Heat Rocks talking with Patrice Rushen about Minnie Riperton’s 1970, Come To My Garden.
oliver
Just to go on a brief tangent here, Patrice, you were mentioning earlier about some of the things that you learned from listening to this album when you were just at the beginning of your career. And you had the opportunity to, in a sense, perhaps mentor another artists younger than you, which is when you were musical director for Janet Jackson during her second world tour, which was behind the Janet album. This was back in the mid-1990s. And I’m wondering, what were some of the thing that you think Janet would have learned from you, or perhaps visa-versa on those two, three years that the two of you were working together?
patrice
Hmm. Most of my contact with her, you know, ironically, even though I was the music director for that tour, was limited. As on those huge, huge tours, by that time, sometimes the artist, once you have had your initial meetings about their vision and the ideas of what it’s gonna take to—logistically to execute that vision, you don’t—I don’t. I didn’t with her—have quite as much contact. I had met her years before she became who she became, and the family and the other—I was probably the closest to Jermaine. So—and new Michael, and Marlon. Those were the ones I knew the best. But of course, Janet was a baby, and she was around a lot, so periodically I got to see her. And as she became the iconic figure that she became, I actually talked to Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. Because her producers, they were her producers, and they used to come to see me a lot. So when I was touring, we would kid each other, like, “Oh, you guys here again, huh?” And what I came to find out later was that a lot of what, vocally, they heard, they helped—a lot of that became you know, one of several influences for Janet, as they were working on her different projects. Now I didn’t think about it then, but of course later on, I could hear that. Especially with the albums that you know, I controlled and things like this. So I uh, I don’t necessarily—I’m not able to answer your question specifically, as far as what she may have picked up or gotten from me, but obviously there was a connection that, by being asked to be her music director, and by knowing Terry and Jimmy as I did, and then you know, just telling me, there was you know, that idea of—of being able to learn something and pick up something. And use it, which is great. That’s fine.
oliver
That makes sense, because Janet did not have a big voice. She had a very light voice, and so a lot of it is what can you do with that. And I think this is something that crossed, of course, your recording career, you know, as you were saying before, about practicing and mastering. It’s something that you had to learn with your own voice as well, so I could certainly see the connection, least of all as people who grew up in Los Angeles as well. You know a lot of the same folks because of the music industry here. So, yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that. That’s fantastic.
morgan
As we’re talking about light voices, one of my favorite sis a singer named Lynne Fiddmont. [Patrice affirms.] You know Lynne Fiddmont?
patrice
I do.
morgan
And uh, she’s got this beautiful song, and I heard as a kid—I have to shout-out KGLH and KACE again, LA radio, ‘cause I grew up here. It was called “I Love You”. [Patrice responds emphatically.] You know that jam?
patrice
I know that. Yep.
morgan
And uh, and so that’s, to me, one of the prettiest lighter voices that I’ve ever heard, and also, as we’re talking about you know, a level of control, and just for listeners to go back and get into her discography.
music
“U R Loved” off the album Flow by Lynne Fiddmont. Slow, gentle, tender singing over guitar. ...that belongs to you. You are there in my dreams All I want is you [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]
oliver
I want to go around the horn here and get everyone’s fire tracks. So, in other words, the you know—Patrice, whatever song you think just, whenever you listen to this album, just really, really jumps out to you in the biggest way. And for me, it is “Les Fleurs.” I mean, if you talk about a A-1 song. It starts off the album. Um, we actually had gotten into some of this discussion when were talking about the use of “Les Fleurs” to end the film Us when we were—when we had Renée Bever here not too long ago. And I went back and just compared, because my introduction to the song, which was a Stepney composition, so this is something that Charles had written, it was first recorded by Ramsey Lewis. And let’s take a listen to that version, the original version you could describe, of “Les Fleurs.”
music
“Les Fleurs” by Ramsey Lewis. Firm, low piano that is joined after a few moments by a lighter, higher piano piece.
oliver
Super good. Good enough that Gang Starr looped it for their early, really influential jazz hip hop hit, “Jazz Music.”
music
“Jazz Music” by Gang Starr. “Les Fleurs” looped under mid-tempo hip-hop. It’s jazz music Jazz music [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]
oliver
You listen to that Ramsey Lewis original, and then you compare what Minnie, just a few years later, does with that same basic composition. And this is no disrespect to the great Ramsey Lewis, who plays on this version—because again, part of the same cadet concept crew—but my god, what an upgrade. Especially—and before we even get to Minnie’s part of it, just Phil Upchurch on guitar, and what he adds to this.
music
“Les Fleurs” off the album Come To My Garden by Minnie Riperton. Mid-tempo, purposeful, melodic drums and guitar accompanied by light vocals. Will somebody wear me to the fair? [Music fades out as Morgan speaks]
morgan
Ooh.
oliver
It chills. Just absolute chills. And it’s always interesting listening to a song that begins life as an instrumental that then has lyrics added later. And as pretty as the original, instrumental version of “Les Fleurs” is, just the lyrics that get added here. I mean, quote, “Kiss my petals, weave me through a dream.” End quote. The funny thing is, partly because I don’t speak French, I probably knew in the back of my head that “Les Fleurs” is about flowers, but it wasn’t really until prepping for today’s chat that I actually sat and really listened to the song, and all the flower metaphors. I think I was always just so caught up in how beautiful it sounded, I didn’t actually really pay attention to what was being said. And this song is incredible.
morgan
Lyrics are incredible, the feeling is inc—when she comes in it just gives me chills, and it makes me—like, in prep for this chat, I said in the intro, you have to listen to this with your eyes closed. And at some point I found my arms extended like, you know, Leonardo DiCaprio standing on the front of the boat. [Patrice and Oliver laugh.] You know what I’m saying, with the arms out? And it made me feel like I was flying. And one of the things that Jordan Peele said about4 this choice was that it was a cleansing palette, and that it was the perfect way—and the perfect way to soundtrack the shot of flying over this world that’s created. And it just—it just gives me chills. I mean, it’s a beautiful track. I have other faves on here, but I’m not gonna take anything away from it, because it moved me in a way that I couldn’t have expected.
patrice
Mm-hm. That’s one of my favorite tracks on this album. Um, you said something really interesting, you know, that—see we don’t know, we’ll never know if the way that we ultimately heard it was not the way that he ultimately heard it as he was writing it. See, a great orchestrator or any great compost has a point of view and something in mind. And so every note, even though we didn't have the benefit of knowing the lyric, or we didn’t have the benefit of knowing what it was about, was even in Ramsey’s version. Except we weren’t in on it. With Ramsey’s version, you’re focusing on Ramsey. You cannot deny its beauty of melody, you cannot deny its feel, you cannot deny any of those things that made Ramsey’s version very popular. Because it was. But we had the benefit of knowing more about the inside story, because we had lyrics, we had a voice, and all of these beautiful textures now applied to this gorgeous melody, and gorgeous pulse, gorgeous feel. So, it’s cool. [Oliver and Morgan laugh.] Yeah, I love it. And when she comes in, I know exactly what you mean. When she comes in and it hits me the same every time. I have heard this album, oh, thousands of times, okay? Hits me the same way every time. It’s like, “Wow.”
morgan
Chills. And one more note from the same article, from the Guardian, it says about “Les Fleurs”, “The ecstatic ascent to the final chorus would be absurdly bombastic in the hands of most producers. Instead, this eruption of joy and light is virtually an out of body experience.” Which is such a beautiful way to describe it. Oliver, did you write this? ‘Cause this is—
oliver
I did not.
morgan
Okay. ‘Cause this is really—
oliver
That’s above and beyond, I have to say. I wouldn’t have come up with that.
morgan
I mean, it just—it just describes what it feels like. It does feel like an out of body experience. [Patrice affirms.]
music
“Les Fleurs” plays again. Mabel, Sadie, Katie, Lola roses (Mabel, Sadie, Katie, Lola roses) Say mama nana ya, uhn-hunh (Mm-hm) [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]
oliver
Patrice, I’m wondering, what is your fire track off this album?
patrice
Ooh. I like “Completeness.” [Morgan affirms.] It’s really—it’s really beautiful, and has—I love the message. Not only the message, you know, lyrically, but the way in which the message is imparted. It’s so heartfelt for me. It’s smart, also. You know, the orchestration is smart. And I dunno another way—it just reeks of his mastery and intelligence.
music
“Completeness” off the album Come To My Garden by Minnie Riperton. Soaring, passionate vocals and instrumentals. Waken me, my love! Cherish me, my love! I belong… [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]
oliver
There’s so much drama on this album. [Patrice affirms.] And we think about—which I think it just makes such an interesting contrast with Minnie Riperton’s voice, which you wouldn’t necessarily intuitively think of as being dramatic, because it is so light and so high. But it is really that balance between what Stepney’s doing with the layers of orchestration in his arrangements, and then what Minnie brings to it, because that voice pierces through everything. Oh, yeah.
morgan
And it’s—and it is dramatic, and to me it feels like—this song feels like sort of a—since this is the debut album, it feels like a foretaste of things to come. That this perfection is what Minnie sounds like when she’s singing about love. And the fact that she’s in love, and she’s singing about love, that’s where the drama comes from. How love moves her, I think, is how the song moves me. So all that build and those lyrics, they just pierce your heart, and I think that’s the intent, because this is about love, and that explains the drama of it to me.
patrice
Uh, you know, we’ve been talking about her whistle range, uh, at the time when she’s offering you know, full chest voice right there where we were just playing, the strings are in that whistle range way above her. And then they’re gonna switch places. The strings go down to their beautiful chord range, and she goes back up to the whistle range.
music
“Completeness” plays again.
oliver
Morgan, what’s your fire track off of this?
morgan
Yo, I’m in the hot seat, because there are so—it’s just so hard to pick, because I love everything. I’m just polyamorous where it comes to this album. [Oliver laughs.] Um, but I have to say, there is something that really moves me about “Rainy Day in Centerville.” [Patrice and Oliver both hum in agreement.] I love the texture of this one. I love how it opens and how it closes, and it is responsible for one of my favorite moments from the album. It’s the build into the moment that comes out of the long instrumental.
music
“Rainy Day in Centerville” off the album Come To My Garden by Minnie Riperton. Grand, excited music under ardent vocals. And I thought about the night we met How the gentle rain fell down, kissed the ground Then I knew... [Music fades out as Morgan speaks]
morgan
It was just a point where I thought, one, Charles Stepney is trying to kill me. [Oliver and Patrice laugh.] He’s trying to kill me. And it is a song that has me fully engaged on really a cellular level. It’s what—it’s the decisions. And I think both of you have talked about the decisions that are made, when Minnie comes in, how she comes in, that long—that long break of instrumental where we’re not even really prepared. And it was a moment, I thought it was a really teachable moment to me, as sort of a new-ish music supervisor, is that how to manage moments. And this was a song that I thought, “Well, this isn’t something that I would place on a soundtrack, because this is a soundtrack. This is a film all by itself. It needs no help from me or the benefit of any story I would put. It tells the story all by itself.” So it was a real moment for me to think, “Aha, make smart decisions and make elegant choices.” But “Rainy Day in Centerville” was uh, is something precious to me from that one.
oliver
Two quick observations. One is that when we usually go around the horn and people are talking about their song choices, there’s three kinds of grunt reactions that we typically have. There is the, “Oh, that’s an interesting choice,” which is like, “Hmm.” There’s the sort of, “I affirm that decision,” in terms of, “Mm.” But it’s notable, I feel like every time a song on this album has come up, our instinctual, intuitive reaction is the emphatic like, “Mmm!” [Patrice and Morgan affirm emphatically and laugh.] And that really is what this album, every song on here brings out of us. It goes beyond just, “Yeah, that’s a good choice.” This is at the depths of our soul, we’re saying like, “Yes, yes, yes, yes.” The second observation is this, to me, when we’re talking about favorite moments on this album—so beyond just a particular song, but really the moments—this is an album that just feels engineered to have so pos—so many possible moments that are just gonna grab you like that. I mean, it’s—I can’t even think of a more recent album that we’ve talked about that has this many. I think, for me, one of my favorite moments—this would be my honorable mention—would be—and this goes back to something, I think maybe it was Patrice, was mentioning. Or maybe it was Morgan. Either way—it is the build up and release of the chorus on “Les Fleurs.” [Patrice and Morgan both make the aforementioned, emphatic “Mmm!” sound.]
music
“Les Fleurs” plays again. Ring all the bells sing and tell the people that be everywhere that the flower has come Light up the sky with your prayers of gladness and rejoice for the darkness is gone [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]
oliver
Hard to beat.
morgan
Good lord.
oliver
Hard to beat. But that said, I think in terms of my favorite, I think I gotta go with Minnie Riperton’s cover of the Rotary Connection classic, “Memory Band,” which I mentioned in the first half. And let’s start with that original version of Rotary Connection, “Memory Band” recorded in 1967.
music
“Memory Band” off the album Rotary Connection by Rotary Connection. A high (possibly young) voice repeatedly singing “La-la-la-la-la” over vaguely electronic music. Music plays for several moments, then fades out.
oliver
To me, this is, hands down, one of the most sublime songs you will ever hear. It is—it’s a miracle of composition, and if you can describe something as being subtly showcasing, without that sounding like an oxymoron, I do think this is that—that’s exactly what Minnie does here with her whistle register on this version, original version of the song.
music
“Memory Band” off the album Come To My Garden by Minnie Riperton. A similar tune to before, but lighter and very slightly faster. … sleep ‘til noon Climb into your head, look where you dare [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]
oliver
I’m not gonna claim that Minnie’s version on Come To My Garden is better than its progenitor, but I do think that on this album, it is one of the most ambitiously arranged songs. And that is saying a lot, because the Minnie Riperton solo album version is a song that begins with bossanova minimalism—
music
“Memory Band” by Minnie Riperton plays again. Sail out of the dawn... [Music fades down and plays quietly as Oliver speaks]
oliver
—and somehow, within just a few minutes, gets to this massive sounding string arrangement and horn section. [The song jumps forward to the aforementioned second and plays for several more seconds before fading out.]
morgan
[Emphatically.] Yo.
oliver
I’m speechless.
morgan
Yo. And I have to keep saying “yo.” Um, but I also want to say, I’m so glad that you picked this one, because the bossa sound of this song actually reminds me of another song called “You Love Me Only.” [Patrice giggles.] Flora Purim and Patrice Rushen. It is so—like, I was list—I had—I bought that song before going back to listen to this song in prep for the chat, and I was like, “Good lord.” So then I had to bump both songs super loud. When I saw my neighbor this morning, she just looked at me like, “Nah, don’t even say good morning to me,” ‘cause of the music. But I have—can we please hear a bit of “You Love Me Only” from this beautiful 1977 album, Nothing Will Be As It Was… Tomorrow?
music
“You Love Me Only” off the album Nothing Will Be As It Was... Tomorrow by Flora Purim. Mid-tempo, melodic music. Ducking, dodging your feelings Don’t you know I’m here through all your schemes, Aspirations, and dreams? [Music fades out as Morgan speaks
morgan
Arranged by another maestro, so uh, thank you for that song. It’s one of my favorites, and also reminds me a lot of Minnie’s “Memory Band.” [Patrice hums in affirmation.]
oliver
Patrice, what favorite moment do you have, or moments do you have off this album?
patrice
Well, when you talked about the big surprise for me that came out listening to the song “Expecting”, ‘cause I too, when I first heard it, I was so enthralled initially with just the sound of it, you know? And then I tried to like, pay attention, after I got past that. I said, “Okay, so what—what is this about?” And then in reading more carefully and in trying to connect the dots a little bit, um, it you know, it helped me really be able to appreciate it even more its starkness in comparison to some of the other things, in how it would just rise and fall, just all of a sudden, in these waves. This one, unlike some of the other ones where you get kind of prepped for the rise, this one you don’t. It just—it just is there and then it falls, in much the way that our emotions take over.
music
“Expecting” off the album Come To My Garden by Minnie Riperton. Slow, tender, very gentle music. She is waiting in the woods, expecting [More instruments come in, making the instrumentals feel grander and more orchestral] Expecting [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]
oliver
I was thinking of something else I had read about when they were prepping for this, which is that Minnie and Charles were really trying to go for a Dionne Warwick Bacharach sound.
morgan
Oh, wow.
oliver
Which makes a lot of sense when you think about it. There are traces of that. I wouldn’t confuse this for a Dionne, you know, burt song. But I can see where that influence would come from. There’s so many great songs on here we haven’t even gotten into. We haven’t even talked about the title track yet, and this is a song that is less than four minutes. I think it’s three and a half minutes. But it goes through four to five different movements within that.
music
“Come To My Garden” off the album Come To My Garden by Minnie Riperton
oliver
We haven’t talked about “Only When I’m Dreaming”, which is another incredible song on here.
morgan
Or “Oh, By The Way”. [Patrice repeats.] Good lord. Which is responsible for my second favorite moment on the album.
music
“Oh By The Way” plays again. Now that I have found a way it’s up to me Oh, by the way Oh, by the way Oh, by the way [Music fades out as Morgan speaks]
morgan
It’s just everything about this, and the tambourine throughout is just sending me. And as Oliver said, there's just so many moments of sonic excellence on here. How can we pick out one? I want to also, before we get out of here, I want to shout-out Minnie’s background singers, Kitty Hayward, and also Elsa Harris. Kitty Hayward, both Chicago folks, very famous, and as I was going deep into Elsa Harris, I saw more about Elsa Harris as a keyboardist than I did as a vocalist. She’s a part of the Chicago Gospel Keyboard Masters, and uh, one of her big songs was her cover of “Walk With Me”.
music
“Walk With Me Lord” by Elsa Harris and the Chicago Gospel Keyboard Masters. Jazzy, mid-tempo piano.
oliver
I believe there’s at least one song that we’ve missed talking about, and I think Patrice wants to mention it.
patrice
Well, we’ve talked about almost all of them except for “Close Your Eyes and Remember”.
morgan
Oh, god.
patrice
And uh, this one, he wrote also with Richard Rudolph, who was Minnie’s husband. So, um—or became Minnie’s husband. I don’t know if they were married at that time. But uh, it’s another one of those. It has you know, a beautiful story that she just delivers with that you know, purity and poignancy.
music
“Close Your Eyes and Remember” off the album Come To My Garden by Minnie Riperton. A few slow instruments under light, airy vocals. The moon was made of cheese Racing swiftly through the mountains Bubbling along the stream Sighing sweetly... [Music fades out as Morgan speaks]
morgan
Patrice, you can’t see us, ‘cause we’re in the booth, but both Oliver and I are having physical reactions to all these hits. [Patrice laughs.] Oliver’s moving his foot, I’m shimmying from side to side. This is a full body experience that we’re having in here.
patrice
Yes, I believe it and I understand. I’ve heard this thing a bunch of times, and when I hear you both speak of it, you speak of it in the same—with the same fervor and energy that everybody who is aware of this project ever talks about it. I remember I was somewhere, and Stevie Wonder was—we were having a conversation, just about stuff, you know? And somewhere in the conversation, this album came up. And he was like, “Oh, you know about that?” I mean, and he just went crazy for a few minutes with the same kind of enthusiasm that we are uh, displaying right now. So this album is one of those things that the people who know and really appreciated Minnie and appreciated Stepney, they see this as a masterpiece.
morgan
I mean, as Oliver likes to say sometimes, you know, sometimes you need the benefit of hindsight, and listening to the album in prep for this chat, it is listening to this knowing that we only had nine years left with Minnie after she recorded this. And it’s the benefit of knowing not only what we had, but also what we lost, but also what remains. And to be able to listen to this as a grown woman and have a grown woman’s reaction to it emotionally, and I’m just glad I lived long enough to sort of appreciate it, and also to keep challenging you know, my notions of what soul music is and all that it can be. That’s certainly what this album did for me, not only challenging those notions, but challenging you know, my own sensibilities as a music supervisor. The takeaway from this has really been huge, and so I thank everyone associated with this album for giving me that moment, for sure. [Patrice affirms.]
oliver
Patrice, if you had to describe this album in three words, what three words would you choose?
patrice
Um, masterful, thoughtful, depthful. [Oliver hums in agreement.]
music
“Come To My Garden” plays again. You know you've lived here all your nights; all your days You know you've lived here inside my mind You know you'll stay here for this you've lived all your life You know you'll stay right here [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]
oliver
Last thing is we always want to leave our listeners with a recommended next listen. I’ll start things off here, and I mentioned this earlier, but I think if people were really into this Minnie Riperton debut album, go back to her debut just on recording period. Which, I don’t know if this is her earliest, but go back to that first self-titled Rotary Connection album, released in 1968. I want to say it’s on cadet concept or maybe it was just on cadet. But regardless, if you like the ideas that were being played here, and you want to get a sense of where she started, you gotta go back to that Rotary Connection, that first album. And really, all their albums. I think they put together at least four or five in the 60s and early 70s, but you would do worse than to start there.
music
“Turn Me On” off the album Rotary Connection by Rotary Connection. Slow, melodic, passionate music. Turn me on I want to know what it's all about Turn me on Tell me of love, speak about [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]
oliver
Morgan, do you have a recommendated—a recommendation for next listen?
morgan
I have two. If you like Come To My Garden, check out the 2018 album from Kadhja Bonet, which is called Childqueen. As the follow-up to her debut album, The Visitor, that was also released on Fat Possum Records in 2016, it’s psychedelic and it’s orchestral. So for you know, all those sweeping, cinematic moments, I’d say listen to that.
music
“Childqueen” off the album Childqueen by Kadhja Bonet. Slow, intense, psychedelic orchestral music.
morgan
Just the purity of voice and you know, what it makes you feel, I would go to 1994 and Carleen Anderson in an album called True Spirit. I came to know her through um, her work with an acid jazz group called Young Disciples, and that’s where it started for me, and then True Spirit. Pretty, pretty, light voice, with a lot of power.
music
“Morning Love” off the album True Spirit by Carleen Anderson. Light vocals over bare, intense instrumentals. … lovely morning Such a sweet way to start my day All your loving has completely escalated… [Music gets faster, then fades out as Oliver speaks]
oliver
Patrice, do you have a recommendation for what listeners should be checking for next after this one?
patrice
Um, if you’re now even more curious about Minnie Riperton and want to go into some of the other things that she did, Perfect Angel— [Morgan and Oliver affirm.] —would be a great place to start. If you want to hear more of what Charles Stepney did singers, pay attention to some records that you probably have heard but didn’t realize his hand in it. Certainly lots of Earth, Wind & Fire stuff, but there’s a song called “Imagination”— [Morgan responds emphatically.] —from the Spirit album, which was the last album that he wrote before his passing.
music
“Imagination” off the album Spirit by Earth, Wind & Fire. Upbeat funk with multiple singers. So I imagine my heart with you See what imagination can do It's not hard to conceive Love ecstasy imagining you with me [Music fades out as Patrice speaks]
patrice
And uh, I’d also check out his work with Deniece Williams on “Free”.
music
“Free” off the album This Is Niecy by Deniece Williams. Upbeat, gently passionate soul. And I just got to be me, free [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]
oliver
That will do it for this episode of Heat Rocks with our special guest, Patrice Rushen. Patrice, what are you working on right now?
music
“Crown Ones” off the album Stepfather by People Under The Stairs
patrice
Well, uh, it’s the school year, or it was the school year. [Morgan and Oliver laugh.] Uh, and I’m chair of the popular music program at the University of Southern California, USC. So during the school year, I focus on that, you know, the development of this curriculum and teaching methods. We’re ten years old now. It’s really exciting to be involved in a program that is so innovative in terms of music education and in allowing the discovery of some of this great music that we’re talking about inside of a curriculum where students can see the lineage from Big Mama Thornton to now, and be able to see themselves differently when they understand where the music has come from, and on the shoulders of whom they stand. Um, and then during the summer when school is out, I get to do some touring and some playing. I still do playing on weekends occasionally in LA, but in the summer is when I can do some things. So right now, on schedule is some dates that I’ll be doing at the Newport Jazz Festival. I’ll be doing some things with Christian McBride, and I’m trying to get some music finished and maybe able to start a larger work in collaboration with one of my colleagues, that may result in a new album.
oliver
And where can people find you online?
oliver
You’ve been listening to Heat Rocks with me, Oliver Wang, and Morgan Rhodes.
morgan
Our theme music is “Crown Ones” by Thes One of People Under The Stairs. Shoutout to Thes for the hookup.
oliver
Heat Rocks is produced by myself and Morgan, alongside Christian Dueñas, who also edits, engineers, and does the booking for our shows.
morgan
Our senior producer is Laura Swisher, and our executive producer is Jesse Thorn.
oliver
We are part of the Maximum Fun family, taping every week live in their studios in the West Lake neighborhood of Los Angeles, where I picture I can return to after the social distancing days are over, but only when I’m dreaming. If you have some extra time, we’d appreciate some of y’all leaving us a five star iTunes review, since it is a key way for listeners to come and find our show. One last thing, here is a teaser for next week’s episode, which features Bay Area turned LA transplant producer and artist, Trackademicks talking with us about Sade’s Lovers Rock on the occasion of that album’s 20th anniversary.
trackademicks
I had been enjoying Sade passively for years, and so in high school, after the Best Of, when that came out, I personally started to really get into Sade. And then Lovers Rock was important because that was a time where I could participate, like as an actual fan in real time, not always going back. So I think that was the biggest thing. There was a lot of things surrounding it. Me and my friend group, we all were into Sade, but I think that was the thing. It’s almost like very pent-up energy, like, “We love Sade, we love Sade,” and never had had an album since we’d been like, music kids.
oliver
Right, because this is the point in her career where she was putting out maybe an album a decade. [Morgan affirms.] And so there’d be long, long distances between them.
speaker 2
Comedy and culture.
speaker 3
Artist owned—
speaker 4
—Audience supported.
About the show
Hosted by Oliver Wang and Morgan Rhodes, every episode of Heat Rocks invites a special guest to talk about a heat rock – a hot album, a scorching record. These are in-depth conversations about the albums that shape our lives.
Our guests include musicians, writers, and scholars and though we don’t exclusively focus on any one genre, expect to hear about albums from the worlds of soul, hip-hop, funk, jazz, Latin, and more.
New episodes every Thursday on Apple Podcasts or whatever you get your podcasts.
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