Transcript
dan mccoy
On this episode we discuss: Six Weeks!
stuart wellington
[Singing] It’s been six weeks since you met that kid! Cocked your head to side and said, “You’re Dudley!” [Multiple people laugh.] [Speaking through laughter] I don’t know the rest of the lyrics.
dan
Like, those are the real lyrics. [All laugh.]
crosstalk
Stuart: That’s what it says on my phone! Dan: “I don’t know the rest of the—" Alonso Duralde: “The rest.” [Elliott laughs.]
music
Light, up-tempo, electric guitar with synth instruments.
dan
Hey, everyone, and welcome to The Flop House! I’m Dan McCoy.
stuart
Hey! I’m Stuart Wellington! Certified beef, seven days a week. That’s me, Stuart Wellington. [Elliott laughs.]
elliott kalan
What does that mean, Stuart?
stuart
That I’m certified, grade A beef? I don’t know. That a guy came and checked my marbling.
dan
Is this your new slogan? You’re branding yourself?
stuart
Yeah. I mean, I think it’s the right time, right? It’s—
elliott
What I like about it is you don’t take any time off. You’re not like lazy God taking Sundays off from creating the universe. You’re like, “I’m beef all the time. I never stop being beef.”
stuart
Seven days a week, 23 hours a day.
elliott
Unlike the beef you buy at the grocery store—the beef at the grocery store, as soon as midnight hits on Sunday, it turns into a pumpkin! No thank you! I want my beef seven days a week!
dan
Yeah. Well, that’s the exact opposite of what I was gonna say, which was that— [Laughs.] To be fair, all beef is seven days a week. So to elevate it above God just because— [Elliott laughs.] —God took a day off after creating the universe seems a little strange. But.
elliott
I mean, to be honest he did a pretty slapdash job. I think we can all agree that the universe has a lot of rough edges. Hey! My name’s Elliott Kalan, but I wanna introduce our big guest today, who I’m very excited about. Our guest is a film critic and a writer. He writes reviews for The Wrap. He cohosts a number of great movie podcasts—Linoleum Knife, A Film & A Movie, Breakfast All Day, and Maximum phone’s on—Maximum Fun’s own—not Maximum phone’s on—Maximum Fun’s own Who Shot Ya?, and he’s the author of the classic Christmas film guide, Have Yourself A Movie Little Christmas. It’s Alonso Durald, or Duralde? I always forget.
alonso duralde
Uh, I—it’s sort of either. Duralde is fine.
elliott
But which do you use?
stuart
Yeah?
alonso
I usually say “Duralde.” Technically it’s “Duralde” [said with Spanish-accented flair] but I never wanna make white guys sound like they’re saying Nicaragua [also pronounces with Spanish-accented flair] so, y’know. “Duralde” is fine.
stuart
Thank you! [Laughs.]
elliott
Okay. Thank you, ‘cause I was having some [over-pronounces it] “empanadas” for lunch and my son— [Laughs.]
crosstalk
Stuart: And I had a [over-pronounces it] croissant. It’s the same thing, right? Man, this is called the cool accent corner. [Multiple people laugh.] Elliott: And then I decided to have a big bowl of borscht [emphasizes the “t”]. Yeah. Dan, what foreign foods do you want to do the accents for? [Laughs.] [Stuart laughs.]
dan
[Through laughter] Uh, I’m uncomfortable with the whole thing.
crosstalk
Dan: Hey, so, uh— Elliott: I was having—I was having some— Stuart: Mm-hm.
elliott
I was having some sushi ai-ai-ai! Right?
crosstalk
Stuart: No. Fuck off. Dan: No. What was that, like a Spanish thing, that you were…? Okay. Elliott: Ach—ach me—ach, me laddie, it’s some spaghetti and meatballs! Y’know. That’s how you do it, right? But Alonso— Stuart: Oh, wow. I like that one.
elliott
Alonso Duralde. I’m very excited to have him here. One, ‘cause he’s great and I’m a big fan of his podcast. Two, he’s just a super-great guy and a really nice guy. When I first moved to Los Angeles, he took me to get ice cream. Just me and him. And it was very sweet and it was a great way to welcome me to a new city. And three, ‘cause it’s Christmas time, everybody! Right? So who better to talk Christmas movies and Christmas stuff than the man who literally wrote the book on Christmas movies?
dan
Yeah. Although we asked—y’know, we asked for a couple options of holiday movies, and look. I’ll take a little bit of the, um… the blame on myself.
crosstalk
Stuart: Okay. What do you mean? Dan: That I said, “Oh, Six Weeks.”
dan
“A Dudley Moore movie from the eighties. Let’s do that. That’ll be dumb.” Thinking that’ll be like a dumb… like, Christmas comedy. Not doing any research into it. [Multiple people laugh.] And then to find that this holiday movie—this so-called holiday movie—is only a holiday movie in that the Nutcracker ballet figures into the plot at the very end. And otherwise it’s a tearjerker about a young girl dying of leukemia. So… awesome.
alonso
If it had been Swan Lake, it could be a summer movie and no one would [inaudible].
crosstalk
Elliott: Mm-hm. Dan: Exactly.
dan
And to that end, also—yes. Content warning that this movie that we’re doing is all about a child dying of a disease. So if that is something you are sensitive to—
crosstalk
Elliott: Well, I would say—it is—I would say it is all about— Stuart: It is—it is barely window-dressing, Dan. Dan: Yeah, no, but—
elliott
It is all about midlife romance between a woman with a very ill-considered perm and a very short man who is an American politician, despite obviously being English!
stuart
This—I mean—
dan
That is all well and good. [Alonso laughs.] That is all well and good and it may be accurate, but if you are sensitive [through laughter] to the idea of a child dying of a disease it does not matter—
crosstalk
Dan: —the degree to which the film is about that. Stuart: Yeah, you’re right. You’re right. You’re right. Okay.
alonso
We will take that about as seriously as the film. [Laughs.]
crosstalk
Elliott: Yeah. Which is not—not very. Dan: Yes. That—that is something—
dan
Something to make clear. [Through laughter] That if we make fun of it, it is only because it is a maudlin melodrama and not because—
alonso
Not because the idea of a child with a terminal disease—
crosstalk
Alonso: —is inherently hilarious. No. Only in the context of Six Weeks. Dan: Is hilarious. Elliott: No, no. Only because— Stuart: No. So—so Alonso—
stuart
Why did you pick this movie? Are you a huge Dudley Tyler Moore fan? [Multiple people laugh.] That’s their couple name, right?
alonso
It should be! They would’ve been portmanteau’d if anyone had seen this movie. Yeah. Y’know, there are some Christmas bombs out there, certainly. And I didn’t wanna—
crosstalk
Alonso: —subject you to something like—say what now? Elliott: Like in Cambodia, right? Or was it Vietnam?
elliott
The Christmas bombing in—was it Cambodia or Vietnam?
crosstalk
Stuart: Ugh. Dan: Oh, god. Elliott: During Christmas. Yeah. Alonso: I believe it was Cambodia. But yeah.
alonso
Way to bring the room down.
elliott
You mentioned Christmas bombs! [Alonso laughs.] It’s the most obvious Christmas bomb! They were literally dropping bombs on Christmas.
crosstalk
Stuart: Technically correct. Yeah. Dan: It is uh… Elliott: But anyway, you were saying. What are—
alonso
Well, yeah. I think Henry Kissinger may have also been responsible for the Nutcracker 3D where they put hip-hop lyrics onto Tchaikovsky— [Elliott laughs.] —and work in Holocaust metaphors and Nathan Lane plays Albert Einstein. And I was like, “I’m not gonna—we’re not doing that. We’re not doing that.” But I did toss a couple out and I just thought that Six Weeks is just—it’s a flop in so many ways, because—not just critically and with audiences, but it’s one of those movies that derailed people’s careers. [Dan laughs.] Like, Dudley Moore? Hot off Arthur. Mary Tyler Moore? Hot off Ordinary People. Tony Bill, the director? Hot off My Bodyguard. And this collectively did for their careers what Moment by Moment did for Lily Tomlin and John Travolta.
elliott
It launched them to new heights. Took them into the stratosphere, is what you’re saying. [Alonso laughs.]
dan
I mean, it is such a huge bomb that despite having—at the time—big stars, and it being clearly like a Hollywood-produced picture, I had never [through laughter] heard of it. [Alonso laughs.] And if you go to, like, IMDB I believe there’s like two reviews you can find from nonprofessional reviewers and maybe like five from professionals? So.
stuart
Yeah, if you type in Six Weeks into IMDB, they’re like, “Not Found.” And you’re like, “Uh…” [Multiple people laugh.]
alonso
“I don’t know what you’re talking about. Oh, that one.”
crosstalk
Elliott: Do you mean Two Weeks, starring Buster Keaton? Dan: Now, Alonso—
elliott
No, no, no. That’s not the one.
dan
Alonso, I wanna ask you about Dudley Moore. Because here’s the thing. So I—I think—
elliott
Since you are Dudley Moore’s authorized biographer— [Multiple people laugh.] —you’re the man to go to.
dan
I think in terms of just acting, like, Dudley Moore gives the best straight acting performance in this film. But like, let us—let us stipulate that I did say “straight acting performance” as opposed to a comedy performance. I—you are about ten years older than I am.
stuart
Wow.
dan
So you lived through more of the— [Elliott laughs.] —Dudley Moore boom than I did.
crosstalk
Elliott: The Moore-lennium. Alonso: Yeah. Dan: Can you explain to me why he was funny? [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.]
dan
‘Cause I’ve never understood it.
alonso
There was this magic snapshot of time in which you could make the original Arthur that was all about a total alcoholic and it was still somehow charming and funny.
stuart
And asshole. He’s an asshole!
crosstalk
Alonso: And asshole. And super, super-rich. Elliott: He is also—and super—he’s a rich, drunk asshole. Yeah. The movie 10— Dan: And the movie 10, where he’s just like… a horrible womanizer.
alonso
Yes. And being very mean to his wife, Julie Andrews, by cheating on her with Bo Derek. And of course Foul Play, where he plays like a complete—
crosstalk
Elliott: He’s a rapist, basically. Alonso: —sort of sex-toy obsessed pervazoid.
alonso
Which was really his launching pad in America. Y’know, he had obviously performed with Peter Cook for years and had done movies like Bamboozled, but like—
crosstalk
Elliott: You mean Bedazzled. Alonso: But the—hey, I wanna see—sorry, yes. Oh wow. He—I find—yeah. Dan: Wow. Elliott: Dudley Moore in Bamboozled would be a very interesting movie. That’d be a very interesting choice. [Multiple people laugh.] Dan: I guess—
alonso
Could we—could we make that happen?
dan
I guess he’d play the TV executive character?
elliott
No, no, Dan. No, no, no. He’s playing—well, he is playing the—the— [through laughter] well, anyway. We don’t need to—anyway—
crosstalk
Elliott: He’s gonna play one of the [inaudible]. Dan: [Through laughter] Yeah. I think you’re getting into a [inaudible]. Alonso: The mind reels.
alonso
Yeah. Bedazzled. The original Bedazzled. Not to be confused with the brilliant remake with Brendan Fraser. [Multiple people laugh.] So yeah. But after Foul Play it was like America could not get enough of that short perv, and then they wanted—and then Arthur was like, “I want more of that short, drunk perv.” [Elliott laughs.] And so then that led us to Six Weeks, where—as Elliott points out—he is running for Congress while clearly British— [Dan laughs.] —and also is the funny politician because Dudley Moore can’t not be quippy in this. He also, by the way, contribute—let’s not lose sight of, like, he contributed the score to this movie. Which is oppressively terrible.
crosstalk
Elliott: Yes. Yeah. [Stuart laughs.] Dan: No, it is a terrible score.
dan
But I believe it won like a Golden Globe. I was doing some behind-the-scenes— [Alonso laughs.] —like, I think it won or was nominated for a Golden Globe. I think Dudley Moore was nominated for a Golden Globe and Mary Tyler Moore was nominated for a Razzie for this. So.
alonso
Well, the early eighties Golden Globes was really like the peak period of, like, “Let me fly you to Vegas for a weekend.”
dan
That is true. It is—
alonso
Y’know. It is right in the—just before the whole Pia Zadora thing blew up in their faces. But you could really charm, wine, dine, and gift your way into a Golden Globe nomination in that period. Not that he did, mind you.
elliott
No, no. But I think—Dan, to defend Dudley Moore somewhat, his early stuff is really funny. Like, if you see Beyond the Fringe or you see what’s left of—what survives of his work with Peter Cook from then, it is really funny. But it’s like, by Six Weeks he seems to be on that path that a lot of comedy actors go to where they’re like, “I don’t need to be funny. I’m charming. And you know what? I’m an actor.” So he’s so not funny in this even though he’s supposed to be the funny politician. And it’s such a snapshot of a time when he is just taking for granted that he is somewhat of a vaguely liberal politician. He seems to have no firm stance on anything. He never gives the audience or the voters a reason that they should vote for him.
crosstalk
Elliott: And there’s a part where— Stuart: Yeah, it’s one of the real—
stuart
—glaring weak spots of the movie. Is that we don’t really understand his politics. Right, Elliott? [Alonso laughs.]
elliott
Well, no. More that like… I don’t care if he’s elected to Congress! Like, I don’t know why he wants to be elected to Congress! So if the movie is about a little girl who becomes so devoted to him that she wants—she’ll—she wants to spend the last moments of her life getting him into the Capitol, it’s like—when she’s like, “What do you think about poor people?” He goes, “I’d like to help them.” “What do you think about wars?” “I’d like to stop them.” “You’re my man!” “Okay, great!” Like, it’s just—I don’t want to see him doing a lot of stuff, but he makes such a big deal in the movie about how he’s not about issues. He’s about, y’know, whatever. And it’s just like… it just feels—
crosstalk
Elliott: —a different version of entitled. Alonso: “I’m not about issues. I’m about spending a lot of time away from my wife.” Stuart: Yeah. [Dan laughs.]
elliott
And frankly, away from the campaign! Like, y’know.
crosstalk
Stuart: Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Elliott’s keeping his eye on the prize. Elliott: But it—you—it also—
elliott
No, but it is—it is a movie where the hero basically abandons his family and there’s this scene we’ll get to, I guess, where his son goes, “I get it, Dad.” And it’s like… it’s like, “Wait— [through laughter] hold on a second.”
crosstalk
Elliott: Like, that’s not the conversation they should be having. Dan: Yeah. Let’s—well, let’s go through the movie, because… Stuart: This movie feels like—this movie feels like it was adapted—
stuart
—from a “Am I The Asshole” post on Reddit. Like— [Multiple people laugh.] You read the headline, you’re like, “Abandons your family? What an asshole!” And then you get to the bottom and you’re like, “Hmmmm.”
elliott
Well, it feels like that’s Dudley Moore’s filmography, I guess. “Look, I’m a rich, drunk guy. But people love me. Am I the asshole?” [Stuart laughs.] “I saw this white girl with dreads on the beach and I had to have her. Am I the asshole?” Like, yeah. I guess that’s—“Look, I’m an advertising executive and I’m not doing good work so they threw me in a sanitarium. Am I the asshole?” [Multiple people laugh.]
alonso
“I’m a—” Is he a therapist having sex with his patient or a patient having sex with a therapist in Lovesick? I forget.
elliott
[Through laughter] I don’t know.
alonso
Either way, you’re the asshole.
crosstalk
Elliott: So, uh, guys— Dan: Yeah. This movie emotionally is all over the place, I would say.
dan
And in terms of, like, the sympathy it wants us to have for the characters, it’s asking a lot. But let’s get into the plot to explain—
crosstalk
Elliott: Let’s get into the plot. Dan: —why that is true.
elliott
First—and this is gonna be more detail-oriented than I get for most of it—it starts with that old Universal Pictures logo where it’s like a planet behind a miasma of toxic gas. And that just brought me back to my childhood right away. So I really appreciated that. Dudley Moore—like we said—he’s Patrick Dalton. He’s a foreign-born but American-raised politician—or like he’s only been in America for ten years, I guess. English—British man who’s now a citizen who’s running for Congress. He is a California state legislator, and the worst thing that he keeps complaining about is that he has to commute between Sacramento and Los Angeles. And it’s like, “Yeah, I hear you. What—you’re living a bad time, man. That sucks. That you gotta take that 40-minute flight or whatever it is.” Anyway. He’s known for his humor and his pranks. And he gets to this—he’s running late to get to a fancy fundraiser because an interview went long. Which is bad planning on the part of his campaign manager. Like, that’s—he should have people who help him with that. But his campaign manager is already at the party. He’s running late and he runs into a teen on the road. Now by that—I made it sound like he hit the teen with his car. That’s not what happens. He stops and asks this teenaged girl—or adolescent girl, I guess—for directions.
dan
She’s about 13. I looked up the actor. And I would say that one of the major problems with this movie is it does not treat it as weird that this middle-aged man immediately befriends a 13-year-old girl in kind of a beautiful girl-style flirty way, I would say.
crosstalk
Dan: It’s a little— Elliott: Well, it’s because she is—
elliott
She’s a very movie-style, precocious, like, super-flirty 13-year-old. Where she immediately asks if he’s a pedophile and if he’s attracted to her. And he navigates that, I guess, as well as someone in that situation—actually, he navigates it poorly. But not as poorly as it could be.
dan
He navigates it poorly. Look, the movie does not over—like, there’s a— [Laughs.] There’s a bar the movie has to reach to make this relationship not seem a little creepy. And it does not clear it, I would say.
crosstalk
Elliott: It repeatedly fails to clear that bar. Alonso: You have to remember—
alonso
Audiences at this time had just gotten out of watching Foxes and Pretty Baby. [Elliott laughs.] So pretty much, like—for some reason, prepubescent girls were just, like, open season in Hollywood at that point.
elliott
Yeah. As opposed to the other periods in Hollywood when it was, “Hands off!”
crosstalk
Elliott: “We have to guard these girls’ purity!” Alonso: Super-respectful, yes.
elliott
You hear that, Charles Chaplin? Anyway. So the, uh— [Alonso laughs.] —so she’s also—we know that she’s quirky.
crosstalk
Stuart: Can’t believe it. Elliott’s naming names, guys. [Laughs.] Watch out. Elliott: ‘Cause she’s— [Laughs.] Yeah.
elliott
[Through laughter] Watch out! I don’t care whose toes I step on. I gotta think of somebody else.
crosstalk
Elliott: Who’s another— Dan: [Through laughter] Whose graves I step on. [All laugh.]
elliott
So she’s collecting dead birds. She cuts their head and feets off to make what she refers to as a fetish—kind of a voodoo item. But she doesn’t say why. And this is one of those things where it’s like, again—
crosstalk
Elliott: —it’s a quirky—it’s— Stuart: It’s a paimon or paymon or whatever.
elliott
Yeah. It’s like a Garden State type thing. Real—just a quirk. Her name is Nicki, and she says, “Go up there to the house.” And he invites her as his guest. And she shows up to the party and keeps from getting kicked out. And this is a plotline I wish they had carried through, which is: the owner of the house is this rich, middle-aged, bald man who hates this little girl. And they have a real antagonistic relationship. [Dan laughs.] And it’s kinda dropped halfway through. And I wanted to know what—why did they—they’re so openly sniping at each other. And that was the most interesting relationship in the film to me. So I wanna see a movie about a rich old man and a rich adolescent girl who hate each other and are just like— [Dan laughs.] Just feuding all the time. I think that’d be really—it’s—
alonso
Oh, that’s a War With Grandpa sequel I wanna see.
elliott
Yeah! The same way that I walked out of The Irishman being like, “I wanna see a movie where Joe Pesci and another old man—and Al Pacino are arguing over the affection of their friends’ daughter—like, trying to be the best uncle to this little kid.” ‘Cause that was the part of the movie I liked the most. Okay. Nicki’s mom is Charlotte Dreyfuss. Played by Mary Tyler Moore with the hair that—I guess I’d describe it as, in the old Ninja Turtles comics April O’Neil gets a weird perm and everyone talks about how much they love it.
dan
[Through laughter] Yes.
elliott
And that’s the haircut that Mary Tyler Moore has in this movie.
dan
Yeah. I hate to linger too much on actors’ appearances in movies. It seems untoward. But, like, it does represent some of the worst of 1980s, like, rich-lady fashion. The way that they style her in this movie.
alonso
It’s that moment in the early in a decade where you’re still sort of dealing with the last refuge of the previous decade. So this is, like, the worst of like 1978 still kind of subsiding away.
elliott
Yeah. Not since Gary Oldman as butt-hair Dracula in Bram Stoker’s Dracula— [Alonso laughs.] —have I been so distracted by a haircut in a movie. [Dan laughs.] Where I was like—and she has it through the whole movie. In every scene I’d just be like, “I can’t. I’m sorry. I can’t take you seriously with that.”
crosstalk
Stuart: And you’re like— Elliott: It’s like when—
stuart
And she works for a cosmetics company, right?
crosstalk
Stuart: You would think image— Elliott: Yes! She owns a cosmetics company— Alonso: She owns the cosmetics company! Dan: Well, she’s like the CEO.
elliott
She owns a cosmetics company that operates out of her house-slash-factory-slash community arts center! But anyway. We’ll get to that. [Alonso laughs.] It’s like in American Crime Story: O.J. Simpson or whatever, when Marcia Clark gets her new hair and everyone is like, “What did you do?” Except nobody in the movie thinks there’s a problem with it. It’s just— [Multiple people laugh.] Anyway. So she is a cosmetics magnate who hates politicians. They’re always asking her for money and she thinks that Dudley Moore is just another one and that he is using her daughter to get to her money and she does not like it. And this is when we see that Dudley Moore has only the barest hint of an ideology or a personality, to be honest. [Dan laughs.] He’s just kind of like a guy who’s used to—he seems like he’s the guy who’s like, “If I’m in any situation where I have to, like, do anything I’ll just sit down at a piano and play a Billy Joel song and everyone’ll sing along and then I can leave and I don’t have to like actually exert myself to connect with other human beings.”
dan
I mean, based on this young girl he seems to inspire this Bernie-like devotion in the youthful. [Multiple people laugh.] Like, these— [Laughs.] Whatever his policies are, she immediately [through laughter] wants to sign on and volunteer. [Alonso laughs.]
alonso
Does no one talk to this girl? She seems very excited about the fact she’s getting any attention. You’re right. The scene with Mary Tyler Moore reveals his one scruple.
elliott
[Laughs.] What is his one scruple? That—I guess that he doesn’t want to be a babysitter later on? Or—
alonso
Well, that, and that—just the idea that he has no idea who she is and he resents the implication that he would dare befriend this girl just to get to Mom’s bank account.
elliott
Yeah. He’s got his pride, y’know? He’s got his honor. Even though—as we’ll see—he’s a man who will cast aside his family without much thought. Who are his family? We’ll meet ‘em. He has a wife, and he has a son who has a broken leg. Like a high-school age son.
crosstalk
Elliott: And she doesn’t like that politics keeps—yeah? Stuart: But I mean—right off—right off the bat—
stuart
We see his family—not as good as his other possible family. Right? [Dan laughs.]
elliott
No. Not as good. [Alonso laughs.]
crosstalk
Elliott: His son— Alonso: The also-rans.
elliott
His son is a real void. Just like a nothing. And his wife—she just is always nagging him about how he’s never at home, ever, because of politics.
dan
[Through laughter] Always nagging him about how he apparently—as we learn later—had another affair earlier and now seems deeply ambivalent about his family.
elliott
And it’s—I would say the only relationship with less chemistry in the movie than Dudley Moore and Mary Tyler Moore is Dudley Moore and the wife character. Where they’re in bed together and they’re talking about stuff and he’s, like, being a little flirty? And I was like, “Have they met? Like, did the son introduce them that day and this is their first night together and they’re just feeling out how they are as a couple?” Y’know?
alonso
And whoever styled her—I’m sure probably the genius behind Mary Tyler Moore’s perm—is not doing her any favors. Like, she looks like she went to the beauty parlor with a picture of the mom from Footloose— [Elliott laughs.] —and said, “Make me look like this.”
elliott
Yeah. They’re really setting her up as the dowdy nag back home that you want him to get away from. Which was not fair. I’ll say. So Charlotte Dreyfuss [pronounces is “Dry-fuss”], she calls him to her—or Dreyfuss [pronounces is “Dray-fuss”], as they always say, because I guess they don’t want people to think she’s Jewish? I dunno. Calls him to her office-slash-factory which also has an arts warehouse and Nicki has a ballet class studio there. And she wants to contribute money to him because Nicki believes in him so much. But she wants Nicki to be a part of the campaign. And he’s like, “What? I’m not gonna, lik,e just babysit your daughter to support my political campaign. I’m a serious candidate with no stances on any issues, and—”
dan
But this is one of the few scenes in the movie where I liked Dudley Moore. Because he responds to this objectively strange offer of, “I will give you a bunch of money if you, like, take my daughter around and give her a slot on your campaign staff” with “No, lady!” Like, this is the one time in the movie where I’m like, “Okay, this is a reasonable way for a human to act.” He’s like, “This is weird.” And it is weird, to be fair.
elliott
I do wish it had been more of a Cop and a Half-type thing where she’s like, “You can have the money—but Nicki’s your campaign manager now.” And now he’s doing like a kid’s idea of a political campaign? [Multiple people laugh.] But it works! People love it! They find it so refreshing, y’know? Where the other guy’s hurling mud in attack ads, this guy’s hurling candy! From a clown car!
crosstalk
Alonso: Water balloons! Dan: Well, that was the original draft of that—
dan
That was the original draft of the script and then they turned it into Crazy People. They’re like, “Eh, we like—what if the kid is good at politics, but what if a crazy person is good at advertising?” [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
“And what if an advertising man is good at lion taming? But what if a lion tamer is good at ocean exploration? What if that ocean explorer is the best stripper in the world?” Like, there’s any number of ways you could take it! [Multiple people laugh.] So she gets upset and she’s like, “Nicki wants to accomplish something in her life.” And he’s like, “She’ll accomplish something when she grows up!” And she goes, “She’s not going to grow up! I’ve said too much!” And runs off, crying. That night Patrick goes back to see Charlotte—kind of just walks into their house, which is weird—
crosstalk
Stuart: Well, he knows the secret entrance now. Elliott: They—they—they—I guess that’s true.
elliott
But they’re rich people who live in a warehouse in an industrial district and I guess the doors are not locked. But Nicki is practicing ballet like a regular Kitty Pryde and they have a heart-to-heart where he gets—by admitting that he once cheated on his wife—a story he says he didn’t tell anyone before—he gets her to admit that she has leukemia and she’s tired of having everything in her life handed to her and wants to work for something before she dies. Now when her—spoiler alert! At the end of the movie, she has her dream come true literally handed to her and she doesn’t seem to have a problem with it. But Stuart, what were you going to say?
crosstalk
Elliott: Take down—take down this dying girl! Take her down! Stuart: But the—yeah. So I—
stuart
I never would’ve realized that when she asks him—so like, y’know, she’s a precocious kid and she asks him straight to his face if he’s ever had an affair. And at first I’m like, “Is she testing to see if he’d be a good candidate?” But no! She’s testing the water to see if he’ll abandon his family to join her family at that point. Right?
elliott
Yeah. She’s grooming him. They call that grooming. In the kids that are— [Multiple people laugh.] —being predators on married, middle-aged men community. Yeah.
alonso
Well, she is taller than he is.
elliott
That’s true. I mean, she is also—she has the most emotional control of anyone in the movie. The character, I mean. Where it’s just like—the adults do a lot of, like, crying and not being sure what to do and she’s—y’know, she’s a kid in a movie so she’s super-confident and is always in charge.
stuart
Mm-hm. A real Curly Sue. [Elliott laughs.]
dan
I would like to say at this point, like—so other than the potentially worrisome nature of this relationship—which is a huge hurdle, again, that I do not think the movie quite—it sort of jumps on it and stumbles over the hurdle—but other than that—
stuart
[Imitating sound of someone hitting something and falling] Clang-alangalangalangalang! [All laugh.]
crosstalk
Stuart: Ouch! My jewels! Dan: Other than that, I think this movie—like, for the first— [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.] Elliott: Why would you carry them in your pocket when you’re jumping over those hurdles?
stuart
It’s a good question.
dan
For the first, like, 20 minutes to half an hour of the movie, I’m like, “Okay, I don’t like this one element but I can see how this movie could work and later on if we want to do our script doctoring I might be up for that.” But, like—
elliott
Yeah. In our classic segment, “Doctor, Doctor, Give Me the News—I Got a Bad Case of Rewriting You.” [Someone applauds.]
dan
Yeah. But [Through laughter] then—But— [Laughs.]
alonso
The Script Flopter. [Elliott laughs. Someone applauds.]
dan
But this part of the movie could be interesting. This, like… young girl who’s like idealistic but is dying and this politician and a friendship they strike—like, that could be an interesting part of the movie and for the first part of the movie I’m like, “Okay, I’m not loving this but we watch a lot of genre movies. It’s nice to see a human-sized drama.” And this is the point of the movie where the movie stops being interesting at all to me, because it veers into a long romance between Dudley Moore and Mary Tyler Moore. And as referenced before, they have less than no charisma together. [Elliott laughs.] Or chemistry. And it is, like—it just becomes a very boring slog peppered with, like, me yelling at the screen about the way characters are acting.
elliott
I mean, there’s three—I would say there’s three major flaws with the story of this movie. One, it’s not a very interesting story. And I say that as someone who has found that I have a real appetite for older, weepy melodramas. Like, forties weepy melodramas that get really over-the-top. But this one is neither over-the-top enough, nor is it believable enough. Two, Nicki is not a real person at any point. She’s like a movie-perfect kid who—she never gets upset. She never throws a tantrum. Like, I have two great kids and they are constantly pissing the shit out of me.
crosstalk
Elliott: Like, they’re just—they’re always getting me mad. Yeah? Stuart: And—spoiler alert—when—when she like—
stuart
When her illness finally overtakes her, at no point ‘til then does she ever really seem sick. Right? Like, unless I was—
elliott
Well, that’s ‘cause she was—
alonso
Well, that’s—we’ll get there. [Laughs.]
elliott
[Through laughter] Yeah. I mean, not only does she never seem sick, she dances in a ballet! And three, the two romantic leads, they don’t have a sense of their—the romance doesn’t feel palpable between those performers but also it feels like the movie is giving you so many reasons to not want them to be together.
crosstalk
Dan: [Emphatically] Yes! Elliott: Like, there’s so many good reasons—
elliott
—they should not be in a relationship.
dan
There is no reason—like, I do not know why they fall in love with each other, other than they are bonding over this dying child.
stuart
Pure. Animal. Magnetism. [Multiple people laugh.]
dan
Yeah. And also this sort of vague sense that Dudley Moore wants out of his marriage, which is not a—look.
alonso
Sympathetic.
dan
Life is long and we all have—
crosstalk
Dan: —things that happen in our lives. Elliott: Not for Nicki, Dan. Stuart: That’s true, Elliott.
dan
Like, I’m not gonna… like, people have complicated lives. I’m not gonna necessarily pass judgment from afar on people. But as a movie protagonist, I’m not like, [through laughter] “Yeah! Leave your family for these guys!” [Multiple people laugh.]
alonso
Well, and there’s the idea of—okay. This girl is—she’s an adolescent girl and she knows she’s dying so of course she’s going to be sort of intellectually/sexually precocious. She’s going to want to talk about this stuff because she’s not gonna get older. It’s not a thing where she can wait ‘til it’s appropriate. Of course she’s gonna ask questions and blurt out inappropriate things and all that stuff. Fine! Whatever. But in the context of a movie in which there is already this weird creepy relationship between her and Dudley Moore and just that era of movies that was tending to sexualize girls at far too early an age anyway, none of that plays. And so I think that’s a thing you could cherry-pick out of this movie and put into a smarter film. But in this context it’s just gross.
crosstalk
Elliott: Yeah. It’s—it’s very gross. Stuart: Yeah. At any point I expected—
stuart
—Travis Bickel to show up and blast Dudley Moore and get that little girl out of there. [All laugh riotously.]
alonso
“I’m here to save you, kid.”
dan
I do want to say about the actor—the young girl—like, the character is completely unworkable. But, I will give her credit—she does, like, a good job trying to make it work. Especially because this is her only acting credit. She was an ice dancer and a very acclaimed ballerina, but this is her one acting role.
stuart
Yeah. So if her, like, grandkids put this podcast on for her so she can listen to it she won’t feel bad? [Laughs.]
crosstalk
Dan: Look, I— [Laughs.] I wanna give the movie— Elliott: She’s not that old. She’s like—she—this was in—she was thirteen—
elliott
—in 1982. So she’s not—I don’t think she has grandchildren. [Laughs.]
crosstalk
Stuart: This isn’t a fucking math podcast, Elliott. [Laughs.] Dan: I wanna—I wanna— [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.]
dan
I wanna give the movie the credit I can. You know me. I always wanna say the thing that, like… look. It is a—
crosstalk
Dan: —terribly written character that does not make any sense, but. Elliott: Yeah. I’ll go along—I’ll go along with—I’ll go along with the premise that you always wanna say nice things about movies.
elliott
I’ll buy into that premise. For this episode. [Laughs.]
dan
No, I’m just saying—look. This is a terrible character, but I’ve seen much more experienced child actors do much worse jobs with better material.
elliott
Oh no. I think she—I think if anyone—if anyone is trying and somewhat succeeding to make their character work a little bit? It is her. And her name is Katherine Healy. But it’s—
alonso
She can hold her head high.
elliott
She can hold—yeah. She can—I mean, she can hold her head higher than Dudley Moore, certainly. Because he’s very short. [Multiple people laugh.]
dan
Well, he’s dead, Elliott. He isn’t—he has passed away.
elliott
You’re right. And when he died, he got six feet tall. You’re right. So the joke’s inaccurate.
crosstalk
Elliott: So she can hold her head—so you’re saying she can lift her head even higher than him! [Laughs.] Dan: No, I’m saying his head—he can’t lift his head anymore. [Laughs.] Stuart: The human body keeps growing after you die. That’s what they say. [Dan laughs.]
elliott
That’s why coffins are expandable. That’s why they have those accordion sides on coffins. [All laugh.] That’s why—they had to dig up Lincoln’s body at one point and he had grown to 17 feet tall. So anyway, long story short, through things like going to carnivals together and avoiding Patrick’s family, Charlotte starts falling in love with Patrick. Patrick doesn’t wanna hurt his family but he’s been disappearing for days, if not weeks, and so he has been hurting his family. His wife assumes that he loves Charlotte and he’s like, “Eh, I dunno.” And Dudley Moore’s wife asks him, “Are you in love with Charlotte?” And he’s like, “Emmm… well… um…”
crosstalk
Elliott: And she says, “Don’t come home until you done with this.” She very reasonably— Stuart: She’s like, “Pick a lane, mofo.” Dan: Yeah. Well he—he says—
elliott
Very reasonably says, “You can’t have two families.”
dan
Yeah. He says, “I am not involved with Charlotte.” Which very much is not the question that she asked him.
elliott
No, it also implies that he’s involved with Nicki, which is worse! Which is terrible! [Multiple people laugh.] So Nicki loves this situation. She loves that she finally has a dad and her mom is finally falling in love and advises them to have sex with each other. And it’s like—it’s so gross. It’s so sitcom-kid gross. Where she’s like, “Tonight, I’m gonna sleep with my headphones on.”
alonso
Oh, no. “Are you going to make love to each other.”
elliott
Oh, that’s what she—she says, “Are you gonna make love to each other? Tonight I’m sleeping with my headphones on so I wouldn’t hear anything!” [Dan laughs.] And they both say—they’re like—
dan
[Through laughter] “I left a few tasteful toys in your bed.” [All laugh.]
alonso
“Here are my Barry White albums.”
elliott
She goes, “I think you’ll find this little blue pill can help you past any qualms you might have, Patrick.” But then they—she—they have a conversation that is so—it felt like the kind of thing that I see usually in like an Alan Alda project. Where it’s two middle-aged kind of upper-middle-class rich white people saying, like, “I have such feelings for you. I think you should go, because if you stayed tonight, I’d just never be able to let you go.” “Yes, that would be the mature decision to make. Because I’m so torn by lust for you and love for you. We do love each other, and that’s why I have to leave right now.” And I was like, “They are so—"
alonso
“Let’s shake hands.”
elliott
[Through laughter] “Let’s shake hands and say goodnight.” And it was like this very, like… “Hm. I don’t know what love feels like anymore. Or lust for that matter. But I assume that’s it now. So I think I’ll leave now.” Like, it felt like two robots that had been programmed to tell each other they love each other.
dan
I mean… there could be, like, a complex movie made about this. But this movie does not pick a lane, as Alonso said before. Like, either you don’t give Dudley Moore a family—which is what I would advocate for—or you make it much clearer that, like… y’know, like… everyone’s tortured over this. Maybe he realizes that he’s kind of a dick? Like— [Laughs.]
stuart
Yeah.
crosstalk
Dan: But it all— Alonso: Also, who is Nicki’s—who’s Nicki’s dad? Like, is he dead? Stuart: Ah, midichlorians!
alonso
Were they divorced? Is it a virgin birth? Like, we’re never told anything!
elliott
It’s true. It is a huge—it is a gaping—there must be something that they cut out. Maybe. ‘Cause it is a gaping void that we never find out what the deal is with that. ‘Cause they’re very—it’s a very different situation if her parents are divorced; if her father died; did she ever know her dad; did her mother have a child out of—like, not—those are all different situations that a child would react to differently.
crosstalk
Elliott: But it just kinda doesn’t matter. Stuart: Was her father like a short, fast-talking Englishman?
stuart
‘Cause that would explain her connection with him, right? [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
Oh yeah. Her dad was Bob Hoskins. That’s the thing. So. [Laughs.]
stuart
I mean, Bob Hoskins would be incredible!
alonso
Anthony Newley. [Elliott laughs.]
elliott
I think there’s a feeling—yeah. That God created this family out of whole cloth for Dudley Moore’s character to, like, escape from his family, which is—
stuart
Ultimate temptation.
elliott
—fine. Yeah, exactly. Anyway. They have this kind of simulacrum kind of, y’know, Jordan Wolfson animatronic character conversation about love. [Dan laughs.] And the Dreyfusses throw a big fundraiser at their factory/community center/house, and Patrick’s wife and son show up. Oh shit! Things are gonna go down! Except they don’t. It’s super-awkward. But then as I mentioned earlier, Dudley Moore’s son goes up and goes, “Dad, don’t think I don’t understand.” And it’s this weird moment where it’s like, “So is it that your son also wants to have sex with Mary Tyler Moore and that’s why he, like, gets it?” [Multiple people laugh.] Like—
dan
Well, he watched The Dick Van Dyke Show on Nick at Nite when he was young. [Alonso laughs.]
crosstalk
Elliott: I guess. But it’s this— Dan: And he saw those capri pants, and, uh—No. It’s—it is— [Elliott laughs.] Alonso: Look.
alonso
“That dying girl is so precocious. I totally understand why she needs your attention more than I do.”
elliott
“More than I do. Look. Look, Dad, I’m going to college soon. I want to cut ties with this family too. Let’s just make a pact, you and me. This family doesn’t exist anymore. Shake on it?”
alonso
“This never happened.”
crosstalk
Elliott: “Yeah. You, me, Mom, this never happened.” Dan: Well, and also Mary Tyler Moore—
dan
Mary Tyler Moore sort of pulls the wife away and they have a conversation off screen. It could be an interesting scene, but they don’t show it. Where I assume what happens is Mary Tyler Moore is reassuring the wife that nothing has happened, even though there is this emotional affair going on. And this scene is very strange because it is the closest the movie comes to acknowledging that, like, this is a really shitty thing that Dudley Moore is doing right now. But the rest of the movie—and particularly the ending—seem to make us, like, want to make us think, like, “No, no, no, you should be with Mary Tyler Moore.”
alonso
“We get it, too.”
elliott
And we never see his family again after this scene. Right? Like, they’re just not in the movie anymore, I think.
dan
Yeah, I don’t think so. But if so, they might, like, be on the other side of a phone or something.
elliott
Yeah. Yeah. So Charlotte tells Patrick during a very subdued, grown-up phone call—again, this is kind of like Alan Alda emotions—that now that she’s met his family and they have faces, they can’t do this anymore. And she and Nicki are gonna fly to New York and maybe go—who knows. Travel all over the world together. And Patrick is like—
crosstalk
Stuart: Yeah. Like it’s a Bucket List situation. Elliott: “Well, ya know—”
elliott
Yeah. I mean, literally, it is a bucket list situation. And Patrick is like, “No. No!” And he chases after them and catches them at the airport. And it is, like—and they’re all like, “Yay! We’re together again!” And there’s a segment— [through laughter] there’s a brief moment where Dudley Moore’s having trouble with the metal detector at the airport. He just can’t seem to get all this metal out of his pockets! And I was like, “I can’t figure out if this is supposed to be funny or if I’m supposed to be like, ‘No, no! He’s not gonna be able to catch up with them!’ Or if I’m gonna be like, ‘Good! Stay there. Don’t—get stuck. I don’t want you to be with these people.’”
dan
And this was even—this is before the current, like, TSA. You should be—he should be like waltzing through the checkpoint. [Elliott laughs.]
stuart
This checkpoint didn’t happen after 9/11, Dan? [Dan laughs.]
dan
I’m just saying, like, to have like this… ostensibly funny set piece about a guy who—I assume, as a Senator—travels all the time—
crosstalk
Dan: Being like, “Whaaaat?! I have to take the change out of my pocket?” I mean, although I do see people like that—yeah. These days still flying. Elliott: He is a—he’s a—he’s a state senator, yeah. [Laughs.] Alonso: You used to be able to just waltz up to the gate.
elliott
Those days, it was like, “Let me check your gun, sir. It has bullets in it? Good.” [Dan laughs.] “That’s the way to the gate. Just go up there.” [Multiple people laugh.]
stuart
“Oh, would you like me to light your cigarette?”
elliott
“Is your flamethrower fully charged? Okay, good. You’re cleared.” [Dan laughs.]
crosstalk
Dan: “Now this is the line for people who want to take the plane to Cuba—" Alonso: True—true story—
dan
“Do you want to get in that line?” [Multiple people laugh.]
alonso
True story. I—my family went to Spain in 1978 to celebrate my parents’ silver wedding anniversary ‘cause that’s where they were both born. My grandmother had—in her house!—an unexploded, defused, Spanish Civil War bomb. We took it apart, put the pieces in different pieces of luggage, and brought it home. [Elliott laughs.] And I still have it as a doorstop. [All laugh.]
stuart
Wowwww.
elliott
That’s pretty fantastic. That’s pretty great.
alonso
And yet Dudley Moore’s change is somehow making it impossible for him to get to the LAX, y’know, New York gate.
elliott
Back then, every now and then they’d stop you and they’d say, “Actually, can you check that bag? Someone wants to bring a bomb on in the overhead compartment. We’d really appreciate it if you could make space for it.” Like, it was—but yeah. He just can’t get through there. But he catches them on an escalator. I will say—I was like, “Oh, LAX really has not changed very much in the past 40 years.” ‘Cause I recognized the tunnel that he was running through. But he catches them. They all fly to—also, when did buy a ticket? Did he buy a ticket on the plane? Like, come on! [Alonso laughs.] What’s going on around here?
alonso
The conductor comes down the aisle. [Elliott laughs.]
elliott
Yeah. “Oh, where ya going to?” “Oh, New York.” “It’s a $5 surcharge. You bought it on the plane.” Click! Chick-chick-chick-chick. Punching out the holes on it. [Multiple people laugh.]
dan
Mm-hm. That was the earlier era of plane travel, yeah. The guy walking down, punching out holes.
elliott
[Laughs.] I mean, there were times—I don’t think you’d ever do it on cross-country flights, but there was a period in the seventies where there were commuter flights where—if they had empty seats—they would sell them to you on the plane. You could just walk up to—get on the plane and they’d be like—and find an empty seat and then you could buy it on the plane. Okay. So. They’re in New York and they have a magical Christmastime weekend. What better place to be in on Christmas than New York? Because it’s got all the things that Christmas is all about: snow that is covered in dog feces, homeless people dying under newspaper blankets, uh, what other great things are in New York in Christmas? I haven’t been there in a while, guys. What do you remember?
crosstalk
Elliott: What are you seeing these days? Stuart: The Rockefeller Christmas Tree, Elliott!
elliott
Oh, yeah, yeah. You got Christmas trees infested with owls. All sorts of stuff.
stuart
Yup. [Laughs.]
dan
Do they go skating?
crosstalk
Dan: I assume—I looked away from the TV and they go ice skating. Elliott: They do go—they go ice—they do all the things. She goes ice skating and they watch. Alonso: She goes skating and they watch. Yeah. Stuart: All the pizza stands sell holiday-themed reindeer-flavored pizza sausage meat? [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
Do they?
dan
[Through laughter] Reindeer-flavored pizza sausage meat?
crosstalk
Stuart: Yeah. They sell them in tubes. What? Elliott: The thing is, they grind up the pizza— [Dan laughs.]
elliott
They grind up the— [Dan laughs.]
alonso
Not reindeer sausage; reindeer flavor. [Laughs.]
elliott
They grind up the pizza and they stuff it into the sausage casing and they sprinkle a little artificial reindeer flavoring. It’s not natural. But it tastes like—y’know, bears say it tastes just like real reindeer. And yeah. [Multiple people laugh.]
crosstalk
Elliott: But the—the weird thing is that they tie— Alonso: In the blind taste. Stuart: Yeah. Uh-huh? Dan: I mean, that was the problem—
dan
That’s a bad business plan, where your pizza is mostly marketed towards bears that wander into New York.
elliott
I mean, we used to—back in the olden days—
crosstalk
Elliott: —the more bears wandered in. Alonso: Well, it’s Christmas time!
elliott
Yeah! And that’s Christmastime! All the bears come in just to be holiday tourists. The other thing that’s weird is they take the sausages and tie them into a pretzel shape so it’s also a pretzel. [Alonso laughs.] Now they—one thing that I—I wonder now if I should talk about how much I’ve come to dislike Christmas as I get older?
crosstalk
Elliott: Or should we save that towards the end? Dan: I mean, sure.
dan
Alonso’s here. Why not, y’know. [Alonso laughs.]
crosstalk
Dan: Unload it. Alonso: Just say it to my face, Elliott. Elliott: Yeah. Alonso—Alonso, I didn’t want to have to tell you this way. Stuart: Alonso is sitting in front of, like, a massive Christmas tree.
stuart
There’s a huge display—there’s a nativity scene. It looks like it’s handmade! Did you make that yourself? [Multiple people laugh.]
alonso
Out of butter, yes.
dan
I mean, I will say, Alonso’s real Christmas tree—and I, y’know, look. There’s no way to say this. I was like, “I don’t wanna insult Alonso.” And I’m like, there’s no way of saying this. It looks a little like the Charlie Brown Christmas Christmas tree. There are… large gaps in it, I would say. [Elliott laughs.]
alonso
It is a silver-tipped fir, which is a very intentional choice and they’re harder to come by because this is the kind of thing you see in like forties movies all the time. But now if you want one you have to really look for it. They really show off the ornaments well.
elliott
Ahhhhh.
alonso
So I know people’s go-to for this kind of thing is Charlie Brown, but, y’know, I’ll tell ya—come back at night. You’ll see it all lit up. You’ll get it.
dan
[Laughs.] Alright. I will come back to this Skype call at night. [Alonso laughs.]
elliott
No, the problem is, Dan’s a vampire. So now, Alonso, he can just walk into your house whenever.
crosstalk
Dan: Oh! Elliott: Now that you’ve invited him once. Alonso: Oh no! I’ve invited him! Ahh!
elliott
Now here’s the thing—I used to be agnostic on Christmas, by which I mean I was like, “Whatever. Someone else’s holiday.” But now that I have children and they are bombarded by Christmas stuff at school? I’m like, “We gotta stop—this has gotta end now.”
crosstalk
Dan: You gotta stop this? [Through laughter] You think you’re gonna—you think you’re gonna stop Christmas? Elliott: And I’m finding myself becoming—yeah! [Laughs.] And so anyway! Stuart: Mm-hm. Alonso: “I must stop it from coming!”
elliott
So anyway, I’ve enlisted in the War on Christmas and I’m now gonna be just burning down Christmas trees. But I’m getting much more militant about him understanding what Hannukah is all about than I would’ve been otherwise. I’m like, “We’re gonna talk about some Maccabees, Sammy. Like, it’s time to tell a Maccabees story.” And he’s like, “Can I open my present now?” And I’m like, “Um, Antiochus wouldn’t let you open that present. Let’s talk about it, Sammy.” Anyway. [Alonso laughs.]
dan
I apologize, by the way, as a gentile, that Christmas has [through laughter] forced you to elevate a minor holiday in the Jewish calendar to—
crosstalk
Elliott: TLTL, Dan! Too little, too late! Stuart: Oh, wow! That’s really nice of you! Dan: —[inaudible].
elliott
I mean, I appreciate that. I appreciate you taking on the shoulders of 2,000 years of antisemitism. But it’s too little, too late. And just when the shoe’s on the other foot—in a couple hundred years—and when Judaism’s the world religion— [Dan laughs.] —just get ready to be bored of Passover! [Laughs.]
dan
Look, I guess if by apologizing I have now become the subject of all ire, y’know, [through laughter] that’s a sacrifice that I gotta take. I gotta take it. [Multiple people laugh.]
alonso
I watched Love, Lights, Hannukah! on the Hallmark Channel last night, so I like to think I’m doing my part to bridge the gap.
stuart
Oh, wow! [Dan laughs.]
elliott
I appreciate that. You know what, Alonso? You’re one of the good goys. I appreciate that. Yeah, yeah. [Multiple people laugh.] Now—
dan
Alonso Duralde: Good for the Jews. [All laugh.]
alonso
That’s the goal of my life.
elliott
If you need that—if you need that blurb, attribute it to me. I’ll take it. [Laughs.] “Good for the Jews.”
alonso
A little signoff. I like it.
elliott
Yeah. So anyway. But Christmas in New York, yeah, it is a magical time. Anyway. They do all the ice skating. They go see the Nutcracker, which did bring back memories to me ‘cause my family, every year, did go see the Nutcracker when I was young. Which was fantastic. They step in wet cement and ruin a construction project and I’m just hoping it’s Trump-related, in which case, great.
stuart
Yeah. Ruin away. [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
And Nicki reads them her list. They’re sitting in—what is it? In Sherman’s Square? Is that it? It’s right by the big statue of General Sherman at the corner of the park. And she’s reading this list of things she’s never done or had, and mentions “I’ve never had sex.” And I’m like, “Movie, this cannot turn into Dudley Moore being a hero by having sex with Nicki.” [Dan laughs.] “This cannot turn into that. That is not okay.”
dan
Here’s the thing. Like… if this was—again—a smarter movie—
crosstalk
Stuart: Yeah. If you’re gonna put that in, you gotta do the work, movie. [Laughs.] Dan: If this was a movie about— [Elliott laughs.]
elliott
No, no, no, no.
dan
If this is about a 13-year-old girl who is dealing heavily with her, y’know, her basically her death sentence rather than this, like, weird backdoor like tragedy romance, if it’s really about this girl dealing with things, like, I would understand this as a conversation she has with her therapist. She’s of an age where she’s beginning to have these regrets. Like, “This is a thing I will not experience in my life. Adults get to experience it. I won’t.” But like, saying it as part of her list to her mom and her… like… the guy she’s trying [through laughter] to manipulate into being her dad… is weird. [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
Yeah. Or that—
alonso
“I’ve never seen an X-rated movie” was also on that list.
elliott
Yeah. That’s true. [Dan laughs.] And it’s like, I wonder—there is—I mean, I guess there is a—if they were making this movie in like the late sixties, early seventies, I could see a version of it where they’re like, “Well, let’s do all those things!” And they’re taking her to a porno theatre.
dan
We’re off to Times Square! [Laughs.]
elliott
And they’re just hiring a hustler to sleep with her for one night or something. Like—
dan
Alright. Let’s not [through laughter] go far down this road.
alonso
“Can we watch Midnight Cowboy? Does that count?”
elliott
I mean, technically X-rated! But I could see it being one of those, like, comedies that were very outré in the late sixties and you watch them now and you’re like, “This has not aged well. This—I understand that you were rebelling against something, but this is not… this is not something.”
alonso
Most French comedies of the 1970s.
dan
Yeah. [Elliott laughs.] Certain things you wanted to rebel against should not have been rebelled against. [Laughs.] [Alonso laughs.]
elliott
Yeah. Yeah. She—instead, they just have her drive a horse carriage around Central Park. So I was like—
crosstalk
Elliott: Okay, fine. Movie? You know what? [Laughs.] Stuart: Just as good! [Dan laughs.]
elliott
That’s basically like making love. That’s good enough.
alonso
Potato, potato [potahto].
crosstalk
Dan: I mean, Stuart, as someone who’s had— Elliott: The feel of being in control of a big, dumb animal? Sure.
dan
Stuart, as someone who’s had sex, like, two, three times, you know that it’s just as good as— [Elliott laughs.] —getting in a horse-drawn carriage.
stuart
And guys—
alonso
But have you driven a horse-drawn carriage?
stuart
Yeah, of course I did. That was when I was on my way to that X-rated movie I watched. [All laugh.]
dan
Which one was it, Stuart?
stuart
Uh… which one… well, it was a short video. I saw it on somebody’s computer. It was about, I dunno, like 15 seconds long.
dan
Wow!
alonso
And it had—it was Myra Breckinridge.
stuart
It had some very interesting sound design? Let me say that. [Dan laughs.]
elliott
[Laughs.] I’m so confused about what the reality of this bit is. Like, so—that night, at Nicki’s instigation, they have a little sort of play wedding with her dead bird voodoo fetish—
dan
Oh, god.
elliott
—which she brought with her. It’s amazingly—it’s not rotted by this point—as the priest. And Nicki conducts the ceremony where she has them proclaim vows of eternal memory of the love of this moment and they’re a family now.
dan
Jesus.
elliott
And it is so—it’s like—it is such a Midsommar-type scene where I’m like—but they think it is touching and beautiful. [Through laughter] It was very—
dan
This is so upsetting that this young girl—yeah. Is like, forcing—again—these two adults. One of whom has a family. Into this mock wedding. It feels like the Twilight Zone episode “It’s A Good Life.” Where he’s like, “It’s good! It’s good that you’re making us marry each other!”
elliott
“It’s good you’re making me abandon my wife and child! Yes, it’s good you’re making me sleep with your mom!” [Multiple people laugh.] “Yes, Nicki, these are all good things!” It’s like… it’s this weird… someone who, like—it feels like someone who lives in a movie made it. Someone who’s not fully aware of human emotions but lives in movies. And is like, “Isn’t this adorable?” And it’s like, “There’s so much going—” like, and what— [Dan laughs.] —what has gone wrong in this girl’s relationship with her mother that she’s like, “This is an okay way to do things.” Like, “We’ve kidnapped this man. And now he is—"
stuart
Isn’t this scene, like, mentioned on the poster? Like, the poster is like, “The girl’s dying. The groom is already married. And the bride is in her sweatpants!” Or something. I’m obviously—
elliott
I saw a different poster.
stuart
Yeah. It’s on the poster.
dan
I mean, if not, I love that—
stuart
Or maybe it’s like the tagline listed on IMDB after you have to search for it three times ‘cause it keeps telling you “Not Found.” [Multiple people laugh.]
crosstalk
Elliott: One of the things— Alonso: “I swear, I’ve never heard of this movie!”
elliott
One of the things I did read about it was that the promotional release for the movie made a big deal about how Mary Tyler Moore and Dudley Moore have the same last name?
stuart
Great.
elliott
Which is—if that’s what you’re selling the movie on— [Dan laughs.] —you do not have much. [Through laughter] You do not have much to go on.
alonso
I’m so glad they pointed that out ‘cause I would’ve missed it.
stuart
Yeah. It would be like if The Avengers’ press material was like, “There are so many Chrises in this fucking movie.” [All laugh.]
elliott
Actually, that should be The Avengers’ rerelease around Christmastime, they go “Merry… Chris-mas—” and they just show all the Chrises?
dan
“Paul Newman and Gary Oldman in the same movie?” [All laugh.] “If they touch, will they explode?”
elliott
That is what happened. But anyway. [Dan laughs.]
alonso
“They will become Man.” [Dan laughs.]
elliott
The movie was called The Incredible Exploding Man. So they have that ceremony. They’re a family now in the eyes of whatever demon is living inside the dead bird fetish that Nicki has created. [Multiple people laugh.] And which is driving them to their doom. The next day, Patrick arranges—or rather demands—a ballet audition for Nicki. Who is running these auditions? [Dan sighs deeply.] Is it the hotel manager from Ghostbusters? I believe it is! And she really impresses them with her audition. And they’re like, “You know what? We’ve gotta use her. Today. Because—I know this is an all-kids production of the Nutcracker, and it will destroy our young star that she is being replaced by a new person we’ve only known for a day—but we are doing this right now.”
crosstalk
Dan and Stuart: Yeah.
dan
Yeah, they don’t just stick her in the fuck—she’s, like, the lead all of a sudden. And I looked away from the movie for like a minute. And I came back and I’m like, “What is going—like, how is it possible that in one day she auditioned and now they are putting her in opening night of the Nutcracker at Lincoln Center?” And then I was just like, “Y’know what, movie? No explanation you give me is gonna make me swallow this. So. Whatever.”
alonso
It’s like the dress rehearsal I think? Like, that’s their excuse for this thing? And she sort of comes in midway through. But she gets, like, the meatiest part of the dancing.
elliott
Oh, yeah! She’s Clara! Yeah.
alonso
I think there’s an unspoken conversation about how Dreyfuss Cosmetics is underwriting their next season. [Dan laughs.]
stuart
There’s also a great scene where all the young ballerinas are applying their own makeup for this production and they’re all kids and it’s like, “They wouldn’t all be able to do the same fucking thing.” [Multiple people laugh.] Like—
crosstalk
Elliott: I mean, they’re— [inaudible]. Dan: [Inaudible] the master of stagecraft. Stuart: I don’t have kids, but I’m assuming—yeah.
elliott
I like that that was the thing you really bumped on in the scene. You’re like, “Where’s the makeup person?” So yeah. She gets to be Clara for a little bit in it. They—well, to be fair, okay. The movie makes it seem as if this is the New York Ballet Balanchine production of the Nutcracker that they do every year. This is like some kind of kids’ theater, different-choreography production. So the movie pulls a little sleight-of-hand there. And meanwhile, she’s rehearsing all day. This sick girl who’s dying of leukemia. They are pushing her to the brink with this ballet rehearsal. Patrick and Charlotte go out and buy a Christmas tree and carry it by hand into a hotel. If I walked into a hotel with a Christmas tree in my hands, I bet the hotel would have some questions. But I guess things were looser back then. It is an extremely poorly-attended Nutcracker performance, but I guess that’s—I guess it is the dress rehearsal. But I was just amazed—I was like, “They couldn’t fill these seats a little more? This is a big Hollywood movie! There’s nobody there!” [Multiple people laugh.] But she dances in the Nutcracker. And this section feels like it happens for six weeks. There is a lot of Nutcracker dancing in this.
dan
You say that as someone who has gone to the ballet and enjoyed it.
elliott
Someone who loves ballet—especially loves the Nutcracker. Loves the music. I was like, “Oh, they’re putting her in right after they kill the Rat King! This is the part where—y’know—she and the—the Nutcracker takes off his mask and he’s a prince now!” But the—seeing afterwards that it’s a professional ballerina they have playing the part, I was like, “Okay, I get it now.” But it is a long time where you are just watching Dudley Moore and Mary Tyler Moore watching a children’s production of The Nutcracker. And I kept looking at how much time was left in the movie and being like, “They’re really running out the clock with this Nutcracker performance!” [Laughs.] Like, “There can’t be too much going on after this!” They throw flowers at the stage. Everyone applauds. Her final dream, as it turns out, is to take the subway home. This also took me back ‘cause it is 1980s graffiti-covered, like, disgusting subway train. So wow. It really—it was what it was like when I was a kid. But she has some kind of illness spell? Movie sickness spell? And she’s in pain and they can’t—they have a—Patrick and Charlotte argue for a while over whether they should stop the train or not. And it’s like, “We gotta stop the train! My baby!” And Dudley Moore’s like, “But it will just go to the next stop. That would be quicker than if you—” And it was so funny that they’re having the same conversation that I would have with my wife if our train was just stopped in a tunnel. Where it’s like, “Do we get off at the next stop or do we just, like—should we take a cab from here?” And all the New Yorkers try to help but they mainly just bustle around and there’s nothing they can do. Nicki passes out—
dan
I will say about this scene: it would be very hard to make a scene where a child dies on a subway and not be moved. But I—so maybe it’s a low bar. But it was a distressing scene because you see all of these other people in the Subway watch this play out, watch this drama play out. And I thought that was actually kind of a smart directorial choice, like, the amount of time they spend on the faces of other commuters who are like, “Holy shit, there’s a child dying in front of me.”
stuart
Yeah. Whose commute is horrible.
alonso
See, I thought you were gonna say—I thought you were gonna say it would be hard to have a scene about the death of a child and not make a movie. And somehow they did it!
elliott
Somehow they managed.
alonso
Because yeah. As Stuart pointed out earlier—she has not displayed a single symptom— [Dan laughs.] —a moment of discomfort. Like, nothing this whole movie. She has been carrying on like everything’s great. She has just exerted herself through this very exhausting ballet performance, and then suddenly it’s on the subway where she literally just says, “It hurts,” and then bam. Drops dead. I’m like, “That’s—oh, come on, movie.” Like, I get that as a dancer you leave it on the floor, but this is just too—another level of ridiculous. And then they keep cutting to other people watching, including this one boy who’s like about ten years old who just stares as though he has no interest in what’s going on. And they cut back to him—
dan
Well, that’s New York.
alonso
—three times!
elliott
Yeah. That’s—that’s New York.
alonso
They keep—and I kept waiting, like, “Is he gonna break? Is he gonna start like—is he gonna show emotion and be overwhelmed by this moment?” Nope! Nope. Never.
elliott
No. That was—and ironically, that—like Dan’s saying, when they were cutting to these other people on the train, I liked that because it was one of the few times they broke the hermetic seal on this relationship? Where it was like, “Oh, they do exist in a world of other people.” But that kid—Alonso—his total lack of response? I was like, “Yes. That is what—that’s a real New Yorker response. Yeah. On the subway.” [Multiple people laugh.] Is you’re seeing that and like, “Ugh, I don’t know. Whatever.” And I guess—
crosstalk
Dan: I mean, maybe it’s— Alonso: “Not my business.”
dan
It could be more of a critique than a compliment, the more I think about it. The fact that I’m more moved by the bystanders who we’ve never [through laughter] seen before in the movie than— [Alonso laughs.] —either of the characters who are supposed to love this other character.
elliott
Yeah. That’s a pretty strong critique, I would say. [Laughs.] That’s the movie not doing its job. When you’re like, “Who’s this kid? Who’s this—” Like, I did think that kid was more interesting than anything else going on in the movie. I was like, “Who’s this little jerk who doesn’t [through laughter] care that this girl is dying?”
alonso
“What’s his story?”
stuart
“Who’s this hardened badass?” [Elliott laughs.]
elliott
So one other—
alonso
“He grew up to be Stephen Miller.”
crosstalk
Stuart: Oh no. Dan: [Laughs.] Oh God. Political. Elliott: Oh. They should’ve thrown him under the train!
elliott
As a child! I would never advise doing that now to a human being. But they run off the train. That’s when we see it was an M train? From Lincoln Center? Whatever. We don’t have time to worry about that. ‘Cause—because it’s the next—because we’re in an ambulance all of a sudden, going across a bridge—no, we’re going down—well, it doesn’t matter what street we’re going down. Anyway. Any time I see New York in a movie, I’m like, “Geography I understand! I know this stuff!” So the next morning, Nicki has died. We know because Patrick is reading to her mom Nicki’s last testament and journal and she talks about how she had a wonderful life and she tells them not to be sad. Donate all her things. And she would like her ballet shoes to be worn by a famous ballerina. And she implies that her last—I think the implication is her last wish is for Patrick and Charlotte to finally have sex? It was not totally clear. But it was like, “You know what I want you to do. Hint, hint, wink, wink.”
dan
Or just—just be together. Which is like, “Wow. What a manipulative dead kid.” [Multiple people laugh.]
alonso
“If you love me…”
stuart
And she was like, “Donate my entire inheritance.” And you’re like, “Whaaat?” That’s like—“Wait, do I have to—do you want me to die now? Do I have to be buried in your fucking tomb, kid?” [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
Yeah. Mary Tyler Moore is supposed to give away all of her money and then throw herself on the funeral pyre of Nicki’s grave.
stuart
Like Ramses. [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
“I would like you both to be buried in my pyramid with me to take care of me and be my parents in the afterlife.”
alonso
“I would like Dudley Moore’s organs in a jar.”
elliott
“A very small jar.”
stuart
Yeah, yeah, of course. “And then stuff his corpse with sawdust.” So the… so is this when we finally get to a—we get to their—y’know, their heartfelt goodbye at the TWA terminal at JFK?
crosstalk
Stuart: ‘Cause I recognized those landmarks! Elliott: Yes. First we get to—mm-hm.
elliott
And also—but first we get to see them—we get to see the whole process as they pick out and buy a magazine at the newsstand of that airport. [Multiple people laugh.] Which—it was only afterwards that I was like, “That was a weird choice that we spent that much time watching them pay for this magazine.”
stuart
Yeah. [Alonso laughs.]
alonso
Well, you see the Men in Black in the background. That’s what that scene was for. It was just setup for a later franchise. [Elliott laughs.]
elliott
That would be amazing! If it’s like, “Yeah, the whole thing was a backdoor pilot for this Men in Black group.” So they say goodbye. She says, “I’m gonna go to France for a while. I have a house there that we used to go to with my dad.” Just to remind us that she’s super-rich, and has essentially used this congressional candidate as her family plaything for a few weeks and kinda wrecked his life.
crosstalk
Elliott: Not really; he was asking for it. He’s equally guilty. Stuart: But not really. I mean, doesn’t he get everything he wants?
elliott
I guess he does. They say they love each other. They—oh, first they take a walk in Central Park. Then they go to the airport. They buy that magazine. And then the last scene is—we see the text of a telegram that Patrick is writing over footage of Nicki and Charlotte dancing together in the ballet studio. And he says, “Hey—To: France—Hey, I won the election. How ya doing? Am I still a thing with you?” Like, that’s basically—
alonso
“Would love to hear from you.”
elliott
Yeah. It’s basically—it’s kind of like a booty telegram in a way. Where he’s like, “Hey, I’m a congressman now. You up? What’s going on?”
crosstalk
Alonso: “You up? STOP.” Stuart: Who was on the fucking politics beat—
stuart
—who just didn’t break this story about a congressional candidate?
crosstalk
Alonso: Yes! Elliott: That was the other thing!
elliott
He wins the election after abandoning his family during the campaign? Like… we just saw a guy lose a Senate race because he was texting with some people. Like, it was—
stuart
Only in California, y’know? [Elliott laughs.]
alonso
It was the eighties.
elliott
I guess—I mean—they did—at the time we did have a president who was the president also of the Hellfire Club inner circle and was presiding over S&M orgies. [Whispering] Guys, I’m trying to start this rumor that Reagan was head of the Hellfire Club S&M orgies. Think you can help me—
crosstalk
Stuart: Let’s get in on the ground floor on this one. Elliott: Let’s help get it going. Yeah. This is gonna be a— [Alonso laughs.] Alonso: You heard it here first.
elliott
I mean, in 40 years, it’s just gonna be established fact. But now I’m trying to get it started. Yeah, I guess—it’s weird that the—I think of the eighties as a much more, like, uptight time. But you’re right, what you said, Alonso, earlier—it’s like, the remnants of the seventies are still floating through. And the seventies was the time when middle-aged people wanted their sixties, I guess? And were just like…
crosstalk
Elliott: Just doing what they wanted and forgetting about the damage? Dan: Well, also… yeah. I mean, well—
dan
Yeah. Well, that is definitely the, like, fucking wheelhouse this movie is in. This is like—this is the—I don’t know—seventies soft rock male ballad of movies. But it also like… y’know, there wasn’t the media presence, I think, at the time, to be constantly on scandal watch. But it did seem strange watching it today. Being like, “Someone’s gonna break the story, right? That’s gonna be a plot point?” [Elliott laughs.]
elliott
“Why isn’t this on HuffPo right now?”
alonso
And this was literally a very seventies kind of thing in that this is a script that knocked around for quite a while before getting made. Like, there’s this insane array of people who were attached to it at some point and who were gonna be in it. It was like, y’know, Nick Nolte and Audrey Hepburn and this just list of actors and actresses before they got to the magical combination— [Elliott laughs.] —of the Moores here.
crosstalk
Dan: Well, also— Elliott: The Moose.
stuart
Screenplay by Alan Moore. [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
That’s why the characters were—
alonso
He took his name off of this, too.
elliott
Well, the characters were originally Mr. Micawber and Little Nell. That’s why—that’s why it was an Alan Moore project. Yeah.
dan
Well, speaking of the screenplay—speaking about how it bounced around for a while—thank you for giving me the opening to say that this is based on a novel and the novel is written by someone named Fred Mustard Stewart. Fred Mustard Stewart.
alonso
And the screenplay’s by David Seltzer, and seltzer will take out mustard.
elliott
That was—this was a joke that I considered making and then decided not to. Where I was gonna be like, “Oh, they’re halfway to a deli in this movie! Mustard and seltzer!” [Multiple people laugh.] But the—it’s a—
dan
Wait. Wait. Wait. That’s one that you wouldn’t say?
elliott
I felt like I am not yet an old enough Jew to tell that particular joke. Give me—
alonso
“And then the waiter brings you a Tony Bill!” [All laugh.]
crosstalk
Dan: That’s the director’s name. Elliott: Oh man.
elliott
“Ugh. The portions are so small, I do want Dudley Moore!” [Multiple people laugh.]
alonso
By the way, this is the same guy who directed Crazy People so clearly he loved working with Dudley Moore so much, it was like—
elliott
They opened up a restaurant together, it turns out. Tony Bill and Dudley Moore. They were real friends. And so it’s—the—but anyway. So Dan, did you wanna talk about—anything about the novel, or just that the guy’s name had “mustard” in it?
dan
Just the guy’s name had “mustard” in it. That’s all. Although I will say, like, in terms of what we were talking about earlier—like, script doctor stuff—I think that there could be an interesting movie in the idea of like, “Okay, there’s this idealistic girl who’s dying.”
elliott
‘K. Pitch it to me. Pitch it to me. Really give us the enthusiasm.
dan
Dudley Moore has no family. Let’s—
crosstalk
Stuart: Gotta cut that out, yeah. Dan: —correct that right now.
elliott
So you’re saying Dudley Moore has less people in his life. Okay. Great. I love it.
crosstalk
Dan: Yes. He is alone in the world. Stuart: No—no strings.
dan
There is no romance between him and the mother. Maybe even like there’s a mother and a father, both of whom are sort of reasonably suspicious that this is a weird relationship, but, y’know, come to accept this man. But it is more about this young woman who is dying who is idealistic and believes in this person and this politician who… maybe, like, does hold these ideals on the outside and like… and believes in them, but doesn’t necessarily make human connection well and does with this young girl. And it would still be kind of a cliché story. But I think it [through laughter] would eliminate a lot of the, like, emotional problems I had with it.
elliott
Okay. I’m—
alonso
So the dying girl is interested in politics and not so much in pimping out her mother.
crosstalk
Stuart: Okay. Interesting. Dan: Exactly. That’s my first fix. Elliott: Okay, fair.
dan
My screenplay fix.
elliott
I think—that’s a good—and you’re saying that he’s like a—he’s a real policy wonk, so she knows from following the blogs—we’re updating it. It’s not set in the eighties anymore. She knows from following the blogs that he’s got all the answers. He’s this young progressive—or maybe is an older progressive. I dunno. But he’s not good at talking to people about it. And she gives him the human touch. Now do you have a climax where they’re at the election headquarters? It’s election night. He has to race from the party to her bedside and she dies just as he wins the election.
crosstalk
Dan: Ohh, yeah. There ya go. Stuart: Mmm. Elliott: So there’s a big party going—
elliott
There’s a big party going on. There’s confetti falling. But you know what? The light just went out of his life. [Dan laughs.] And now he—
stuart
And it was also crazy because election night happened to be the same night as the dress rehearsal for the Nutcracker, right? [Dan laughs.]
elliott
Yeah. It’s an off election that’s happening on Christmas, for some reason. And it’s filling this—
crosstalk
Elliott: —so that the previous seat holder died under mysterious circumstances. Stuart: Special election, yeah. [Dan cracks up.]
elliott
Maybe the girl killed him. And that could be a thing. That she’s like a Hanna-type assassin. Y’know. And she wanted to make an opening for this guy to run for office, so it’s a special Christmas election. The Nutcracker thing is a fundraiser. She collapses during the show.
stuart
I love it.
elliott
In the middle of the climactic moment when the Nutcracker is about to hold her up in the lift from Dirty Dancing. That’s when she collapses and they have to take her to the hospital. And he runs out—it’s a fundraiser on the last day—on Election Day. Which is pretty late, but I guess he still has bills that he owes. Y’know. [Laughs.]
stuart
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
alonso
What if she’s at the big party and he wins. The balloons fall, the confetti. [Dan sighs.] He gets up to make a speech and goes, “I—I have to acknowledge—I couldn’t be here without Nicki.” And he brings her up and she’s been thoroughly healthy the entire film and she gets up behind the microphone and suddenly her face turns deathly white. She says, “It hurts,” and collapses, as all the cameras snap photographs. And he’s standing there holding her lifeless body.
elliott
Yeah. Like a pietà. Yeah, yeah.
dan
Now, Alonso, can I plus this idea? What if instead of just collapsing— [Elliott laughs.] —her head explodes Scanners-style?
stuart
Uh-huh. [Alonso laughs.]
elliott
So she has some sort of disease that leads to exploding heads and they’re looking for a cure.
dan
[Through laughter] Yeah. She has Scanners Disease.
elliott
Okay. She has Scanners Syndrome. And Scanners Syndrome—it’s—
alonso
Kronenberg’s Sarcoma. [Dan laughs.]
elliott
And also—it’s a pandemic. That’s the thing. He’s running for office during this time that—where the Scanners Syndrome could hit at any time. Nobody knows. And they think they’ve beaten it. But in the end, Nicki proves that they haven’t. Yeah, yeah. So you can expand the scope quite a bit. You’ve got scenes of, like, riots in foreign countries ‘cause there’s only so much vaccine for Scanner Syndrome. And it’s like World War Z or something like that? Y’know. So we could open this up, ‘cause it’s based on a stage play. We gotta open it up from the stage play it’s based on, which of course was called Scanners Girl: Election Day Christmas. And we—which I—maybe it’s a segment from Forbidden Broadway. I don’t know. Maybe that’s it. So— [Alonso laughs.] —so Dan, the uh—
dan
Alright. We should—
crosstalk
Elliott: No, no, I was saying—do you have any—no, no! Dan: —we should wrap this—
elliott
Casting! Who are you casting in these parts? Who’s the girl? Who’s the progressive policy wonk, and who’s the opponent who will do anything to take down the progressive—even blackmail, theft, and—in an amazing sequence—taking the Super Bowl hostage. So who’s the—who do you play these parts?
dan
Alright. [Through laughter] Here we go. We got—
alonso
The Christmas Super Bowl?
elliott
The Christmas Super Bowl, yeah. It’s—again, everything’s thrown out of whack because of this special election so they’re holding the Super Bowl on Christmas as well. [Laughs.] [Multiple people laugh.]
dan
The politician, of course, has to be Adam Driver. He’s very hot right now. Y’know. He’s good at playing intense. And I think the young girl—to avoid any possible weirdness—should be Andy Serkis doing motion capture. [Alonso laughs.]
elliott
Okay. So you’re not—kind of an Alita: Battle Angel type thing, where there’s a little bit of an uncanny valley about the girl. I would say—if you wanna avoid that problem even entirely, you cast Amy Adams as the girl and she just has pigtails and it’s okay— [Dan laughs.] —because she’s an adult playing a little girl.
dan
Ugh. I mean, that’s weird in a different way. [Through laughter] Can we get to the ending here? Can we—
elliott
And who plays the bad guy? Who plays the bad guy?
stuart
Yeah, who’s the bad guy?
dan
Uh… uh, Dan Ackroyd.
crosstalk
Stuart: Wow. Yeah. That’s a big—big—big role, yeah. Dan: He’s—y’know, it’s one of his comic villain performances. Alonso: Oooh. Nothing but trouble! Elliott: Yep. Yeah, sure.
dan
Yeah. Let’s get to the Final Judgments. Because I don’t know what’s going on in Stuart’s corner of Brooklyn. It looks like it’s much later there than in my part of Brooklyn. The sun is going down. [Through laughter] So let’s—Stuart looks so baffled right now. [Elliott laughs.] Is this a good-bad movie, a bad-bad movie, a movie you kinda like? I will start. I—look. This movie, by the end of it, it put me in a bad mood. [Laughs.] I was— [Elliott laughs.] I was angry at the movie. I got out of it. I don’t hold it against Alonso, but I—y’know, I walked out of it in a sour mood. I thought the people were bad. I didn’t like it. It was boring.
stuart
Uh-huh. You snapped the DVD that you had ordered from Amazon. [Multiple people laugh.]
dan
[Through laughter] Yup. It’s on Amazon Prime, if you wanna check it out.
stuart
Oh, okay.
elliott
I’ll go next. Yeah. It is a bad-bad movie. [Through laughter] It’s terrible. [Dan laughs.] It was—I wish—there’s a version of this movie that is a good-bad movie. But this one is a little dull. But there was part of me that like… and I wanna thank Alonso, ‘cause there’s a part of me that was like, “There is no chance in hell that I would ever have seen this movie.” [Multiple people laugh.] And it was like a little taste of the kind of movie that I imagine, like, my parents going to go see when I was a kid? And then just being so disappointed and coming back and not telling me about it. And it really took me back to a year when movies like this could come out. And it’s like, “Oh, okay. There was a period when they made this stuff.” So I appreciated it. Not as a movie. It was terrible. But I appreciated it as a snapshot of a worse time. [Laughs.] Stuart?
stuart
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I—no. This is a bad-bad movie. And yeah. It’s fun to get to watch, y’know, a bad movie from another era. And bad in ways that are, like… it didn’t feel bad in the, like, boring modern kind of overproduced Hollywood way. It felt like a little bit of that, but also a little bit of the, like—this is somebody’s passion project. Even if it wasn’t, it felt a little bit like somebody cares a lot about this dumb movie that doesn’t’ make sense. Who is this movie for? Nobody knows. So yeah. Bad-bad. [Dan laughs.]
alonso
Uh, yeah. I’ll close the loop. It is totally bad-bad. My friend Jill O’Ryan tipped me off to it years ago. And the line that she always quotes from it is one that Dave and I have turned into a running joke in our house, which is after she says the thing about “Are you two going to make love?” Dudley Moore says, [dramatically] “You’re an outrageous child, Nicole.” [All laugh.]
elliott
Ugh. Ugh.
alonso
I just love throwing that into conversations because it’s a guaranteed laugh-getter. Much like this movie in general. But yeah. It is bad in the way of like, someone thought this was a good idea. Somebody really committed to the bit of this thing. It certainly doesn’t feel like it was created by committee or the studio thought, “Oh, we’re gonna cash in on the—”
crosstalk
Alonso: I don’t know what. Dying girl craze? Like, it is its own thing. Stuart: Yeah. Dying girl craze, yeah. Yeah. Elliott: Gotta cash in on the—gotta cash in on the “abandoning your family” trend. Yeah.
elliott
It’s a—and knowing that the script was around for so long—that people were trying for years to tell this story—it’s crazy. ‘Cause you’re watching it and you’re like—
alonso
It got developed a lot.
elliott
It’s amazing. You’re watching—it must’ve been a big—the book must’ve sold well. Probably? I dunno.
dan
Yeah. I figure this is like, “Oh, but what if Love Story was about a kid instead of a lover?” I don’t know. I—it’s weird.
elliott
Yeah. They’re like, “It’s Love Story, but a lot of people’s lives are ruined as collateral! By the leads!” Like, it’s—to go into the movie and be like, “Yeah, yeah, we’re gonna make this movie. It’s about a guy who becomes friends with a—it’s about a grown man who becomes friend with a 13-year-old girl.” “Okay, but, uh, why does he do that?” “Well, he’s falling in love with her mother.” “Oh, that’s great.” “He’s already married and he has a child.” “What are you doing? What is going on?!” [All laugh.]
crosstalk
Dan: Okay. Alonso: I gotta read the book one of these days. Just out of curiosity. Elliott: Yeah.
alonso
But I haven’t brought myself to that yet.
elliott
What’s weird is it’s a Western. [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
Light, up-tempo, electric guitar with synth instruments.
promo
Music: Rhythmic percussion and bass. Speaker 1: I listen to Bullseye because Jesse always has really good questions. Jesse Thorn: What did John Malkovich wear when he was 20? Speaker 2: [Laughs.] I don’t know how to describe it! Speaker 3: There’s always that moment where Jesse asks a question that the person he’s interviewing has not thought of before. Daveed Diggs: I don’t think anyone’s ever said that to me or acknowledged that to me and that is so real! Jesse Thorn: Bullseye! Interviews with creators you love and creators you need to know. From MaximumFun.org and NPR.
promo
James Arthur: Hi, I’m James, host of Minority Korner, which is a—? Speaker 1: Podcast that’s all about intersectionality. It’s hosted by James with a guest host every week. Speaker 2: Discussing all sorts of wonderful issues; nerdy and political. Speaker 3: Pop culture— Speaker 1: Black, queer feminism. Speaker 4: Race. Sexuality. Speaker 5: News. Speaker 6: You’re gonna learn your history. There’s self-empowerment. And it’s told by what feels like your best friend. Speaker 2: Why should someone listen to Minority Korner? Speaker 7: Why not? Speaker 8: Oh my god. Free stuff. James: There’s not free stuff. Speaker 1: The listeners of Minority Korner will enjoy some necessary LOLs, but mainly a look at what’s happening in our world through a colorful lens. Speaker 2: People will get the perspective of… marginalized communities. Speaker 1: I feel heard. I feel seen. Speaker 9: Like you said, you need to understand how to be more proactive in your community. And this is a great way to get started. James: Join us every Friday on MaxFun, or wherever you get your podcast. Multiple speakers: Minority Korner! Because together, we’re the majority.
dan
The Flop House is sponsored in part by Squarespace. Now you all know Squarespace. You’ve been listening for a while, unless you are listening to the first episode. In which case, welcome! I hope you enjoyed the nonsense. [Stuart laughs.] But Squarespace is a service that allows you to create a beautiful—
elliott
Now, Dan, when you said “Listening to the first episode,” you meant listening to this episode.
crosstalk
Elliott: Listening to the show for the first time. Dan: To this episode. This is the—
dan
I’m saying that this is the first episode that you may—perhaps—I don’t—y’know, I don’t wanna assume. Every episode might be someone’s first episode.
elliott
Yeah. But you’re not saying “If you’re listening to the first episode of the show,” in which case there were no sponsors and I wasn’t even on the show.
crosstalk
Dan: Yeah. Yeah. And it sounded terrible. Stuart: Uh-huh. And also any—
stuart
And also any episode could be somebody’s last episode of the show.
elliott
Oh, wow. You’re right. Dan. Just get with the ads. Sorry. I’m wasting time.
dan
Okay. So Squarespace can help you turn your cool idea into a new website. You can blog or publish content. You can sell products and services of all kinds and much, much more. Squarespace helps you do this by giving you beautiful, customizable templates created by world-class designers. Everything optimized for mobile right out of the box. A new way to buy domains and choose from over 200 extensions, and free and secure hosting. So you should head to Squarespace.com/flop for a free trial, and when you’re ready to launch, use the offer code “flop” to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.
elliott
Now, Dan, I had an idea for a website based on today’s movie. And I was wondering if Squarespace might be able to help me with it.
dan
Y’know what? I had an inkling you might have one of those.
stuart
Yeah. I mean, I’m a little troubled. I’m a little concerned. But I’ll hear you out.
elliott
So let’s say—here’s my customer base. Let’s say you’re a little kid. A precocious adolescent kid. You don’t have a dad. You want a dad. But even more than that, you want the thrill of poaching that dad from another family. Well, at SecondhandDads.com, you’d be able to come and look through our extensive catalog of dads who are, let’s say, losing steam with their current families, and looking for new families to become the dads of! This is not a dirty site. This is not people who are interested in physical relationships with adult people. This is about emotional relationships with children and their single parents. So just log onto SecondhandDad.com to know that you’re getting someone who has the skills to be a dad and the enthusiasm for a new family that will get them falling in love with your mom over, let’s say, a whirlwind Christmas New York weekend! SO that’s SecondhandDads.com. You think Squarespace would be able—legally or ethically—to help me with that? [Dan laughs.]
dan
I don’t know about the second, but I’m sure that they could help you design that website. Hey, we got another sponsor. It is called Kitty Poo Club. And you know what?
stuart
Yes!
dan
A lot of us are working from home right now. Not all of us. Y’know, many of us have to still go out for work and god bless you if you’re out there putting yourselves at risk just because you have to make a little money. I feel for you. But if you are working from home, you’re probably spending a lot more time with your cat. You’re getting to see what they do during the day. It’s a lot of sleeping, in my experience. A lot of staring out the window. Crying whenever the kitten walks through your backyard. The stray cat in the neighborhood. But one thing—and you’re loving it. You’re loving all this extra time with your cat. Y’know? Your furry friend? You’re getting extra face time with your cat. But what you don’t love is having—
elliott
Case closed. Sounds like a great product, Dan. Cats?
dan
Well, no, no, no, no. Hold on. Hold on. [Multiple people laugh.] There’s a problem this product’s gonna solve. And that’s that you don’t love dealing with the litterbox. Well now, every month Kitty Poo Club can deliver an affordable, high-quality, recyclable litter box that is prefilled with the litter of your choice. The boxes are leakproof, eco-friendly, and have a fun design for every season. When the month is up, just recycle the box and Kitty Poo Club will automatically deliver a new one to you. No changing used litter and no more cleaning the box. And right now, Kitty Poo Club is offering you 20% off your first order when you set up auto-ship by going to KittyPooClub.com and entering promo code “flop”. Just go to KittyPooClub.com and enter promo code “flop” to get 20% off when you set up auto-ship. That’s KittyPooClub.com. And don’t forget to enter promo code “flop” at checkout to help support our show. I hope you didn’t hear the burp I stifled partway through. Because I’m a middle-aged man who can no longer control the emissions from his body.
elliott
Sounds like somebody needs Kitty Poo Club for himself, too, maybe.
crosstalk
Stuart: Uh-huh. Dan: Mm-hm.
stuart
“Killed ‘em all. Burp. Killed ‘em all.” Uh, cool! Well, that was great. We got two cool sponsors.
elliott
Mm-hm.
dan
Oh, we also have a couple of Jumbotrons, I believe. Elliott, why don’t you take the first one?
elliott
Sure! He’s a Jumbotron for ya. And you know what? I’m gonna have a secret surprise. Spoiler: It’s a personal endorsement. “Every week on Marvel By the Month, Bryan Stratton and Robb Milne? Mil-ne?” I can’t remember how his last name is pronounced. Sorry about that, Robb. “Chat with your favorite podcasters and comics professionals, like John Hodgman, Matt Fraction, Clint McElroy, Fred Hembeck, Jordan Morris, and Tom Scioli about the best, worst, and weirdest parts of Marvel Comics’ history, one month at a time. Look for Marvel by the Month at MarvelByTheMonth.com, or wherever you download podcasts!” And I was on an episode of this podcast. It actually just came out right before we are recording this episode. And I had a great time. It’s a really fun podcast where they are reading through Marvel comics in their heyday, month by month, and talking about the issues. And I think it’s a really good show. So go listen to my episode, where we talked about the birth of Adam Warlock and MODOK, among other characters.
stuart
Oh, fun!
elliott
And then go listen to the other episodes! It was lots of fun! Marvel By The Month.
dan
Wow, synergy! Cool.
elliott
Mm-hm.
stuart
And I have a Jumbotron! “I’m an artist. And throughout the pandemic, I’ve been working on a project called Pornemon. It’s like a mashup of Pokémon and Jurassic Park, if the creatures were all designed by a pervert—me!” Now I’m assuming that’s talking about the creator, not me, Stuart Wellington, but who cares?
crosstalk
Dan: I was gonna ask— Stuart: It’s mostly—
dan
We gotta be honest!
stuart
Yeah. Uh, yeah. I mean, it doesn’t matter. “It’s mostly safe for work, despite how it sounds. Also, there are some tainted pornemons who resemble certain political figures in cathartic ways. So visit Pornemon.com—that’s P-O-R-N-E-M-O-N.C-O-M—for all the stuff! Made with Squarespace!” Uh-oh! Synergy! And there’s a couple trailers up on YouTube. Looks like a lot of fun. “My pornemons—let me show you them! At Pornemon.com.”
dan
One of the more unusual Jumbotrons. So perhaps it catches your ear! I believe there’s another plug that your household, Stuart…
stuart
Oh, yeah. The household—the Wellington Household.
sharlene wellington
[Faintly] Oh. But now you can’t hear.
stuart
[Faintly.] That’s okay.
sharlene
Oh, alright. Hi, guys! [Laughs.]
dan
Hi! [Laughs.]
elliott
Hello! Hi, Sharlene! How are you?
sharlene
Good! How are you? I liked your last episode.
dan
Ohh!
sharlene
It had a—it had a very high SPM. Sharlenes Per Minute.
dan
Oh, of course.
elliott
Yeah. There were a lot of Sharlenes. A lot of mentions. So Sharlene, what would you like to talk to us about today?
sharlene
I have a new podcast, guys! Have you heard about podcasts?
elliott
[Laughs.] Is it—I heard it’s like the radio of the future! [Dan laughs.]
sharlene
It’s of the future! I have a new podcast. It’s called I Know the Owner. It’s me and a guest—sometimes the guest is Stuart, sometimes the guest is somebody else in the bar industry—and we talk about bar stuff! And it’s fun! [Dan laughs.]
crosstalk
Sharlene: And… you can find it—and you can find it on iTunes! Elliott: Sounds great! What kind of— [Laughs.] What kind of— Dan: Sounds fun!
sharlene
I Know the Owner!
elliott
What kind of bar stuff do you talk about?
sharlene
Uh, we talk about how I got into the business; how other people got into the business; we have a section called… wow, I forgot what my section’s called! [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.]
crosstalk
Sharlene: It’s called “You Won’t Believe—” Elliott: Well, it sounds great.
sharlene
“You Won’t Believe the Fucking Day I Had.” [Elliott laughs.] Where it’s supposed to mimic people bellying up to the bar and telling me about their day. And then we, y’know, talk about it. And we have so far recorded in the bar while it was open, so anything can happen. And what happened is the bar’s gonna be closed. So that’s not gonna happen. So after today, we will record in other locations.
dan
So in this unfortunate time period, if you want the old Hinterlands experience, you can’t talk to the bartender now. But what you can do, I guess, is on a weekend get a takeaway drink. Y’know, pop the podcast in. Maybe you’ve sent in a complaint about something that happened in your week and you can have that experience of chatting with a bartender while sipping your drink.
sharlene
Exactly. So thanks for letting me plug it on your show!
dan
Sure!
elliott
Our pleasure!
dan
I guess that’s the end of the— [Multiple people laugh.] I guess that’s the end of this section?
elliott
I think that’s the end of that segment, yeah.
dan
Alright.
elliott
And now, back to the show!
dan
Moving on to our next segment, which is Letters From Listeners Like You. Who are listening right now, I assume? Hey!
crosstalk
Dan: This one’s from Alan, last name— Elliott: That’s right Dan, hey!
elliott
Because, Dan, [singing to the tune of “It’s the Most Wonderful Time of the Year”] It’s the most letterful time of the showwww! It’s the part of the show where the letters are read and we answer the letterssss! It’s the most letterful time of the showwwww! If you thought there were other parts of the show that had letters in them, you’d be wrong! It’s just this part that has the letters in them. This part of the show right here! ‘Cause it’s the most letterful time of the showwwwww! [Singing ends.]
stuart
Oh man, you gotta give it to him.
dan
I will give it to him that that is the most accurate letters song, I think, we’ve had in a long time?
elliott
Mm-hm.
alonso
If you’re trying to destroy Christmas, Elliott Kalan, you’re going about it all wrong ‘cause that just—my heart grew three sizes.
elliott
Oh no! Well, what about this? [Singing to the tune of “Carol of the Bells”] Here’s letter Qs! There’s letter Qs! Qs from the letters! We’ll answer Qs! Letter, letter letter, Qs, letter, Qs letter-letter-Qs. Letter, letter, letter, letter, letters. Letter, letter, letter, letter, letters. [Regular voice] What about this? Wait. Are there other Christmas songs? I can’t think of any.
alonso
No, not a one.
elliott
Oh, okay. That’s too bad.
stuart
Dan’s looking for a way to turn off his computer? I guess he’s done? [Multiple people laugh.]
dan
Yeah. Okay. So here we go with the first letter—
elliott
[Singing to the tune of “Here Comes Santa Claus”] Here come letter Qs! There go letter Qs! Hope you sent us some Qs! Qs to answer questions—I guess I should’ve been clear about that at the start! Letters sometimes have questions in ‘em and we’re gonna answer those letters in this part of the show right now—how does the rest of the song go? I don’t know. Anyway, that’s the end of that song—or is it? It seems to be going, still!
stuart
Oh man.
elliott
[Singing continues] I don’t understand! I’ve lost control of it! I’m as annoyed as you! Believe me, I wish I could stop it—at this point it’s kind of like a medical problem. I’ll talk to my doctor after the show, because I can’t get this song to end. [Speaking in faux desperation] Dan, you’ve gotta interrupt me. I’m sorry! This—you’ve gotta slay this beast!
dan
Now your war on Christmas feels real. This one’s from Alan, last name withheld, who writes—
elliott
Alan Moore.
dan
“Inspired by The Flop House, and because of our desire to not make life worse for healthcare workers—” thank you “—we have decided we’ve enough time to celebrate Cagemas this year by watching a different Nicolas Cage movie every day in December. What are some must-adds to our list?” This brings up a good point. I wanna just say, quickly, that our Cagemas episode will release in early January. Y’know—
crosstalk
Dan: Like, Cagemas is a moveable feast. It’s a moveable feast, guys. Stuart: So stop sending death threats to Dan.
dan
You don’t know—
alonso
It’s in our hearts.
dan
Yeah. It’s not necessarily gonna come before Christmas or even slightly after Christmas. Maybe in the next month! But it’s coming.
elliott
Look, guys. Cagemas is a made-up holiday, like Christmas. We can put it wherever we want to. [Dan laughs.] So. [Multiple people laugh.] That was the most inflammatory thing I think I’ve ever said.
stuart
Yeah.
elliott
And I apologize immediately.
dan
Uh… okay. What do we got?
crosstalk
Dan: Great Nicolas Cage… Elliott: So Nicolas Cage movies!
elliott
Look, you gotta do—if you haven’t seen Bad Lieutenant: Port of Call New Orleans, throw it on there.
stuart
Oh yeah. It rules.
dan
Mm-hm. Um… well, I’m trying to look through like what’s like a more… offbeat…
crosstalk
Elliott: Amore? You mean love? Stuart: I mean, you get—like, obviously Moonstruck. Dan: One that—
stuart
You gotta put Moonstruck on there.
crosstalk
Stuart: I mean, he’s great in that. Elliott: Yeah. You gotta put Moonstruck. Dan: Gotta put Moonstruck on there.
elliott
Gotta put Raising Arizona on there. Maybe you might—
alonso
Vampire’s Kiss.
crosstalk
Dan: Vampire’s Kiss. Stuart: I don’t know. Elliott: Vampire’s Kiss. Alonso: If you wanna see a really—
stuart
I’m not a huge Vampire’s Kiss fan, but, y’know, whatever.
dan
Really!
stuart
Nope.
dan
Really.
elliott
I mean, just for the scene where he goes through the alphabet, it’s worth watching.
stuart
I guess.
elliott
I mean, it’s not good.
stuart
Yeah.
crosstalk
Dan: Um… Color Out of Space recently. Stuart: Wild at Heart. Yeah. Give me some Wild at Heart.
elliott
Yeah, or like Red Rock West.
stuart
Yeah, sure.
crosstalk
Elliott: Or like, uh… Dan: I got a real— Alonso: Are we counting Into the Spider-Verse? Stuart: Oh, yeah! He’s great in Into the Spider-Verse! Elliott: Yeah! Into the Spider-Verse! Dan: Why not?
dan
I’ve got a real fondness for the National Treasure movies. They’re dumb, but they’re a lot of fun.
elliott
Speaking of dumb but—
crosstalk
Dan: Con Air? Elliott: What? Yeah. Stuart: Con Air, yeah.
stuart
A movie that is so gif-able. It’s wonderful.
elliott
I mean, just the beginning of Face/Off, before the faces get switched? ‘Cause Nicolas Cage doesn’t get that much to do once the faces get switched?
dan
Yeah. [Laughs.] Just the opening tracking shot from Snake Eyes? [Multiple people laugh.]
alonso
If you’re gonna celebrate Cagemas in December—I’m not a giant fan of it, but Family Man is his technically one big Christmas movie.
crosstalk
Elliott: Mmmm. Good point. Stuart: Ohhh! Alonso: If you wanna be seasonal about it—
alonso
—you could do Cagemas earlier than these guys.
elliott
Yeah. You could do—
stuart
Some of his recent output—I enjoyed his performance in—what is that—Mom and Dad? Where he demolishes a pool table even before he goes crazy. [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.]
dan
Yeah. And on the little-seen side of things, we watched The Trust for this show and I think we all enjoyed it a lot more than we suspected we might.
elliott
The Trust is not a particularly good movie, but him and Elijah Wood in that? They’re—the way they relate to each other in it is so much fun to watch. And I wish that they would make something else together. There’s—
alonso
He did finally get to play Superman in Teen Titans Go to the Movies, which I’m a fan of.
crosstalk
Elliott: Okay! People don’t really talk about Adaptation that much anymore. Stuart: Oh, okay. So yeah. Satisfied Nicolas Cage’s dying wish. Dan: Oh.
stuart
To be Superman.
crosstalk
Elliott: Mm-hm. Dan: Yup. Dudley Moore burst into DC offices— Alonso: So he did the dress rehearsal.
dan
—and demanded to see who was in charge of allowing him to play Superman.
elliott
Why not go watch It Could Happen to You? Why not? Goes down easy.
crosstalk
Alonso: Ohh! Dan: Yeah, that one’s a fun one. Elliott: Yeah. That’s a fun nice one. Y’know.
elliott
And probably—and of course Arsenal, right? [Dan laughs.]
dan
Shut up. Alright. [Elliott laughs.] Moving on.
alonso
Valley Girl?
stuart
Yeah, Valley Girl!
dan
Yeah, Valley Girl. Carly from—
elliott
I will say, do not see—do not see Dog Eat Dog. Avoid that one. If you’re—you’re gonna avoid plenty of ‘em, but avoid that one particularly. And you should probably fit in his performance as Fu Manchu in Grindhouse in the ad for Werewolf Women in the SS.
dan
Don’t do that. Uh, Carly, last name withheld, writes: “My brother has worked for all of his adult life in the hospitality industry in Las Vegas. We were watching Home Alone 2 with his eight-year-old daughter, and she said of the Tim Curry character, ‘He’s the bad guy, right?’ After a long pause, J.T. said, ‘Well… he’s just trying to do his job.’ And I could feel the two decades of hard work and shitty guests in his tone. My question is, have you ever watched a movie in which a character inspired a strange sense of pathos in you because of your own experience? Love you so much! Cheers, Carly, last name withheld.” [Through laughter] I love that anecdote. “Y’know, he’s just a guy trying to make his way in the world.” Like, he’s—
crosstalk
Dan: I mean, Kevin’s kinda a shitty kid. I don’t know. Elliott: He has been put in an— [Alonso laughs.]
elliott
He’s been put in an untenable position where he is trying to keep a child on his own in New York from—I guess—stealing from a hotel, best-case scenario. Worst-case scenario, being murdered in the middle of the night. This kid shouldn’t be out on his own. That—he’s the hero of the movie in a lot of ways.
stuart
Yeah. I feel the same way about Tim Curry in The Shadow. [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
I mean, in some ways I guess the Wet Bandits are the heroes of the Home Alone movies because all property ownership is theft at a certain point.
crosstalk
Stuart: Yeah. That’s a good point. Yeah. That’s a really good point. Elliott: And so they’re just trying to fix the inequities in the system. Dan: Oh, wow. Alonso: comrades!
elliott
[Through laughter] Yeah, sure! [Dan sighs deeply.]
crosstalk
Dan: Yeah. I’m trying to think—you go, Elliott. Elliott: So I—I don’t know— Alonso: I think all film critics—
alonso
All film critics have empathy for the Bob Balaban character in The Lady in the Water. [Elliott laughs.] Like, “What’s your problem, M. Night Shyamalan? We’re just out here trying to make a living!”
elliott
I think any time there’s a character in a movie who is the—like, exists in the movie only to be the butt of a joke? This is not necessarily based on life experiences, except that people—I’ve been made fun of many times in my life. But when a character exists only so the other characters can score jokes off of them, that always bothers me. I’m always like, “Don’t create this character and bring them to life just to—it’s okay to create a dumb character and have him be funny for the audience, but when it’s like—your heroes are, like, ripping on somebody—it’s like, you created this character just for this purpose. Like, come on. Don’t do that.”
stuart
Yeah. It’s one of the reasons why there’s never a character in a movie named “Stuart” that isn’t, like… I mean, it feels like the character’s only named Stuart because they couldn’t get away with naming them like Nerdbert or something. Like—
elliott
Yeah.
alonso
I have a friend named Gary. He is very angry about how he’s been handled in the movies. [Elliott laughs.]
elliott
I will say that I have a special antipathy for movies about slackers. Or the slacker character—
dan
We’ve noticed, Elliott.
elliott
We’ve talked about that. Any time there’s a character in a movie who’s, like, a slacker and it’s like, “Why can’t I just stumble into my dreams?” I’m like, “I don’t care about this person. Not interested.”
dan
Your hero is the principal in Back to the Future who hates slackers as much as you.
elliott
I mean, that’s not my hero. [Multiple people laugh.] Necessarily.
stuart
Like Ogre in The Revenge of the Nerds series is my hero, because we both hate nerds. [Elliott laughs.] And sleeves! We hate sleeves, too. [Alonso laughs.]
elliott
And any time someone in a movie is—like, in the story. Any time someone’s trying to do their job and it involves customer service of some kind and the hero is being—the protagonist is being, like… just like difficult or unreasonable? And we’re supposed to get mad at the customer service person for not bending to their will? I’m always like, “Hey. Do things the right way. Come on.” It reminds me of working at Barnes & Noble and having people come in and demand books that didn’t exist and then get mad at me when I—and demand to see the manager when I could not—
crosstalk
Elliott: —magically produce them. Yeah. Stuart: And you couldn’t write ‘em fast enough? Yeah.
elliott
But they’d come in and they’d be like, “Where’s that red book I saw? Where’s that—” Someone came in once and said, “Where’s the book with the blue cover that I saw a month ago?” And I was like, “I don’t know. Who is it by?” “I don’t know.” “What was the title?” “I don’t know.” “What was it about?” “I don’t know.” And I asked that person, “Why do you wanna read this book?” [Laughs.] [Dan laughs.] And they got mad at me. [Alonso laughs.]
alonso
A really gorgeous shade of blue.
dan
Hey, let’s move on, why don’t we. To the final segment, which is Recommendations. Of movies you might actually wanna watch rather than this. And trust me—you do not wanna watch this. I’m gonna go first and I will give you—
crosstalk
Dan: I’m not recommending this movie— Elliott: Oh, that’s very—that’s very generous of you, Dan!
dan
I’m not recommending this movie as a traditional good movie. By any means. Although there are elements of it that surprisingly work. But I’m recommending the movie—
elliott
Dan—Dan—you better not be about to tell me that you watched Hillbilly Elegy on your own and we can’t do it for the podcast.
dan
No, no, no, no, no. No. [Alonso laughs.] I—close, though! I’m recommending 2002’s The Country Bears. [Elliott cracks up.] Because oh boy— [Alonso laughs.] I watched this movie and like, y’know, like, it is the movie—bad movie that has made me laugh the most since seeing Cats. Like, I almost laughed as much at some of this as I did— [Elliott laughs.] —and the funny thing about this movie is like, okay. It is a weird idea, objectively, to be like, “We are gonna make a movie that is about the Disneyland attraction—the Country Bears—which is just a bunch of bears singing country songs. A bunch of animatronic bears.” [Elliott laughs.] Not real bears. Let’s clarify before Elliott jumps in. Animatronic bears singing country songs—
elliott
No, I was just gonna say—before you disappoint a generation of listeners who are gonna—who can’t wait to get to Disneyland again so that they can see real bears singing country songs.
dan
And this is during the period—
alonso
They’re gonna bring the artificial reindeer sausage with ‘em, huh?
crosstalk
Elliott: [Through laughter] Yeah! They’re gonna be like, “Oh, these bears are gonna love this!” Stuart: [Inaudible] Reindeer pizza sausage, but yeah, yeah. [Elliott laughs.]
dan
This is during the period when Disney had a real fever for making movies of its attractions, which only struck gold with Pirates of the Caribbean. And I guess they’re making Jungle Cruise, so it’s not like this period is over.
crosstalk
Elliott: They made it, Dan. Dan: It’s one of the more—
dan
—misbegotten ones. And the funny thing to me about this movie is: this movie is about a group of bear musicians who are famous bear musicians who broke up and a young bear wants to get them back together. It’s basically the plot of the new Muppets. And no one in the movie particularly makes any sort of deal about these bears being bears. Like, this is the—the fact that they’re bears is basically immaterial to the story. [Elliott laughs.] And yet they are bears. This movie posits a world in which, like, 90% of people are not bears, but 10% are bears. And everyone just, y’know, does bear stuff or not. But they don’t do bear stuff. They just like—they’re at a buffet. They’re like— [Elliott laughs.] —singing songs. And the thing is, the songs are actually—like, there’s a lot of talent behind this movie. The songwriter is, like, a famous songwriter. I can’t remember. He—John Hyatt wrote a lot of the songs. Brian Setzer wrote some of them. Bela Fleck was involved. Elton John. Bonnie Raitt and Don Henley are some of the singing voices. And in this movie you’ve got Christopher Walken, Haley Joel Osment is the tiny bear. M.C. Gainey is the human member of the bear band.
stuart
Amazing.
dan
You’ve got Toby Huss in it. Uh… Brad Garrett, Stephen Root are some of the bears. Like, there’s a lot of talent behind this movie, but the fatal flaw of this is it’s a movie about the Country Bears. [Elliott laughs.] None of this talent can overcome the fact—so it’s one of those Cats situations where you’re like, “Wow, they are really trying to make this work and putting all their energy into, like, a totally misbegotten idea.” And somehow that makes it all the more exciting to watch. So I had a lot of fun.
alonso
Do bears in this world do anything besides sing? Do they have like a bear agent or—
crosstalk
Alonso: Bear catering? Anything? Elliott: There’s like a bear janitor just cleaning up after them in one scene?
dan
There is the kid bear, who wants to get the Country Bears back together. Who has no job because it is a kid bear who has been adopted by Stephen Tobolowsky’s family. And the other son—in the one joke referring to the fact that there are bears in this universe—the other son is, like, mind-boggled that this child doesn’t realize that he is adopted because he is a bear. [Alonso laughs.] Which is not a bad joke. And then the rest of the movie doesn’t really make hay about it at all. I—it’s a strange movie. I can’t quite get across how it bent my mind.
crosstalk
Dan: But I enjoyed it. Elliott: I like the idea that—
elliott
—the people making the movie were like, “No one’s gonna be interested in how a bunch of bears started and became a band. We gotta pick up after the band’s broken up. Nobody’s interested in the origin of a Country Bear band.”
stuart
Isn’t there a montage of Christopher Walken gleefully destroying scale models of Country Bears’, like, music halls or something? [Dan laughs.]
dan
He is—I mean, like, you— [Laughs.] He is committing, Christopher Walken. He is not phoning this part in. He is very angry about these Country Bears for reasons that— [Elliott laughs.] —become clear late in the movie.
crosstalk
Dan: They have a history. As all good nemeses do with their heroes. Elliott: Don’t spoil it, Dan! Don’t spoil it!
dan
And—but it is a wacky movie.
elliott
Now Dan, you said M.C. Gainey was the human member of the band. Why do they have a human member in the band?
crosstalk
Stuart: Good question! Dan: I don’t know. He’s a drummer. He drives the bus. Elliott: Is it possible— Alonso: Opposable thumbs. Stuart: Yeah, that’s a good point.
elliott
Is it possible he was supposed to be a bear and they just ran out of bear costumes? [Dan laughs.]
stuart
Or that he, like, walked onto set and they were like, “Oh, yeah, that’s a bear.” And you’re like, “Uh… okay.” [Multiple people laugh.]
dan
Well, the other thing this movie has in common with Cats is obviously that the main characters are these anthropomorphic animals. And it is not as disquieting as the CGI cat fur put over normal people. But it is sort of a weird look because these are people in bear suits, it seems, with animatronic bear heads. And they fall square in the middle of the uncanny valley. So… it’s an unusual experience.
alonso
It’s on Disney+! You can watch it after The Mandalorian. [Elliott laughs.]
elliott
Talking just now reminded me that Cats is on HBO Max so I think I—this may be the night when I force my wife to [through laughter] watch it. [Dan laughs.]
crosstalk
Stuart: Oh, man! Dan: Report—report back. Elliott: My wife—
elliott
My wife and I talk about watching cats the same way that some couples talk about, like, having a threesome? Where she’s like, not that into it but she’ll do it for me, y’know? So she’s like, “Yeah, I guess I’d watch Cats with you.” And I’m like, “Maybe tonight’s the night.” [Multiple people laugh.]
alonso
She wants to be GGG.
stuart
Yeah. Uh, okay! So I’m gonna recommend a movie! The year: 1990. The city: Detroit, Michigan. The movie: Martial Law. That’s right—it’s a martial arts movie set in Michigan! [Elliott laughs.] We have—it’s about a pair of police officers. One played by the son of—what’s his name? Give me a second. I fucked that up. It’s okay. Don’t—no, don’t erase it. Don’t erase what I just said. I’m fixing it. Okay. I’m almost there. Yeah. [Dan laughs. Elliott joins in.]
stuart
So it’s played by—the lead is played by Chad McQueen, who’s the son of screen legend Steve McQueen. And his partner—
elliott
So Steve McQueen is the name you couldn’t remember.
stuart
Yeah! Yeah. [Elliott laughs.]
crosstalk
Elliott: Okay. That’s fair. Stuart: Yeah. I mean—
stuart
I thought that was pretty clear. And his— [Multiple people laugh.] And his partner is played by the always-wonderful Cynthia Rothrock. She’s amazing. And it’s a movie filled with karate mullets. It opens with a hostage scene where our hero dresses up like a pizza delivery guy and then beats the shit out of a bunch of criminals and the action is shot well in that every time somebody gets hit, there’s always some kind of a reaction shot. So, like, when our hero, Martial Law, blasts somebody in the jewels, the guy—it cuts to a shot of the guy being like, “Ow! My nuts!” It’s great. And of course— [Elliott laughs.] —the villain in a world of hockey mullets, the villain is the only unmulleted karate fellow. That’s right—David Carradine is in this movie and in every scene he’s got a really cool stick and he practices the technique of dim mak, where he punches people in the chest and they die from it. It’s great. [Dan laughs.] Martial Law is the movie. Stuart is me. Thank you. [Elliott laughs. Dan joins in.]
elliott
I’m glad we’re both—we’re all bringing out the real big guns on the day we have Alonso here. [Multiple people laugh.] Someone who knows film better than any of us.
crosstalk
Stuart: I mean, Country Bears and Martial Law. Elliott: I’ll go.
stuart
Where’s Elliott gonna go?
crosstalk
Stuart: How much deeper can we go? Elliott: Well, it’s—
elliott
I feel like I need to rework my recommendation. [Dan laughs.] Seeing as this movie today involved a child and a trauma, I decided to go with a movie that I watched just recently that I had only learned of recently. This movie called Ladybug Ladybug from 1963. And it’s a movie about a group of schoolchildren. There’s an elementary school that gets an alert that a nuclear bomb is going to be dropped in the area. That the war has started. And they—so they go through what they’re supposed to go through, which is that the teachers take all the kids home. And it’s kind of about how the adults are at a total loss to really know what to do in this situation. They don’t know if it’s even a real alert or not, and how the kids are left to fend for themselves, more or less. And it’s not like a Lord of the Flies type thing. It’s more of a—the children trying to mirror and make sense of the emotions that the adults are feeling and taking on those roles. And by doing so, kinda showing how ridiculous they all are! And seeing it really brought home to me some things that I kind of didn’t want to admit to myself about children during the pandemic right now, and specifically about me and my kids and how I need to pay more attention to kind of how they’re reacting to this whole situation through my reaction to it. There’s one scene in particular where this girl runs home and her dad is, like, a farmer and he’s shoveling some stuff. I don’t know what he’s doing. And she’s like, “The bomb’s—the war’s started! The bombs are dropping!” And he’s like, “What?!” And she’s like, “The war! They’re dropping the bombs!” And he’s like, “I’m busy. I’ve got work to do. Go talk to your mother.” And I was like, “Ooh, well that hits home. I’ve had that conversation with my son a bunch of times in the past year.” Where he’s like worried about something and I’m like, “I’ve got work to do. We’ll deal with it later.” So it really struck home for me, not in the way that the filmmakers intended because the movie is almost 60 years old! But it’s called Ladybug Ladybug and it’s—I think it just got released or re-released on DVD, but [conspiratorially] I found the whole thing on YouTube. So that’s where I watched it. [Regular voice] But it was really good and it’s got some very early performances on film from William Daniels and Nancy Marchand and Estelle Parsons, so there’s a bunch of really good actors in it. But they’re—it’s mostly about the kids. So that’s what I’d recommend. Alonso, what have you got? It is gonna be my bleak end or their fun end of the spectrum?
alonso
Oh, well, y’know, I’ll tell ya. This is—because—when you write a book about Christmas movies, you get asked to do a lot of podcasts in December and I love that. But I figure anybody who wants to hear me recommend Happiest Season has heard me do it about ten times. So I’m gonna go firmly in the Elliott camp and bum everybody out—
elliott
Yeah!
alonso
—with an amazing Romanian documentary about healthcare!
stuart
Oh wow. [Elliott laughs.]
alonso
Called—it’s called Collective, and it is basically about how there was this—it begins with, like, a fire in a nightclub where all these people died—
stuart
Oh, right!
alonso
—because there weren’t enough exits. And it sort of exposed this like government corruption, so this other government gets to come in for a year and take over. And they’re trying to work out the healthcare stuff because a bunch of people who should have survived that incident didn’t, and just the onion unravels and it’s just more and more levels of corruption and of chicanery and awful stuff. And just when they get really close to nailing the people responsible, the people responsible figure out how to use the media to change the subject entirely!
crosstalk
Stuart: Oh, wow. Elliott: Oof.
alonso
So it feels very much about America in 2020. This is a film that’s made in a very kind of Frederick Wiseman documentary style in terms of, like, there’s no interviews. You don’t get a lot of onscreen things identifying who the people are, necessarily. But at the same time, it is edited like a thriller. It is—it’s intense and breathless and very—you will be very upset by the end of this movie. But in a way that ideally you’ll maybe wanna change… everything. So yeah. Collective. I really—I love this movie. It infuriated me but it also—
crosstalk
Alonso: —was very timely. Stuart: And that—
stuart
That came out earlier this year, right?
alonso
Uh, it opened earlier this month.
crosstalk
Stuart: Oh, shit. Okay. Alonso: It is in theatres—
alonso
—in a few places where theatres are open, but it’s also streaming. It is Romania’s pick for the Oscars so it might be an international film nominee. But I don’t know how docs do in that category, so.
stuart
Yeah. I’ve seen it on a couple of like “Best of the Year” lists, so.
alonso
Great stuff.
elliott
I gotta see that. I wasn’t aware of it.
dan
Well, Alonso. I wanna say thank you—sincerely—for appearing on our show. And for inflicting—
crosstalk
Elliott: Here it comes! He’s gonna give ya the business! Dan: —for inflicting this on us. No, no! I mean, like, this is— Alonso: Apologies for the Six Weeks part. [Laughs.]
dan
This is a good kind of pain. I didn’t—I didn’t like it while watching it but it was a lot of fun to talk about with you guys.
elliott
It’s the kind of movie that reminds you how good good movies are? ‘Cause you’re like— [Multiple people laugh.] “Oh, yeah! This is a bad movie!”
stuart
Well, and like—we were getting text messages from Dan while he was watching it and he was like, “Oh! If only it were as good as Country Bears: The Movie!” [All laugh.]
dan
Mm-hm. Yep.
alonso
“Where are the jamborees in this film?”
elliott
“Wherefore are thou, Country Bears? Hast thou forsaken me?” [Stuart laughs.]
dan
So few jamborees. But— [Elliott laughs.] —let’s—[Laughs.]
crosstalk
Dan: Let’s say goodbye for another episode—what? Elliott: Now, wait! Wait! Before we do that—
elliott
Now I’m imagining, Dan, you’re a film critic. And you have your criteria you rate every movie on and one of them is “Jamborees?”
crosstalk
Elliott: And you’re like, “Once again… no jamborees.” Stuart: Dan, you don’t wanna—Dan doesn’t wanna lead into this bit—
stuart
—as Dan the exhausted dilettante movie fan? [Elliott laughs.]
alonso
“Why is everyone wearing pants? Why can’t it be like The Country Bears?” [Multiple people laugh.] “A vest is all they need!”
crosstalk
Dan: Uh, yeah. “Zero fur on the actors! No stars!” Elliott: “I went into—” [Laughs.]
elliott
“I went into Paddington 2—"
alonso
“I don’t see one banjo!”
elliott
“I went into Paddington 2 hoping for the best. The lead is a bear. Check. He does not wear pants. Check. Does he have a jamboree? Alas. Still no jamborees in Paddington’s world.” [Multiple people laugh.]
crosstalk
Dan: Okay. Well, y’know— Elliott: “I’m giving this movie one out of six banjo strings!” [Multiple people laugh.]
dan
As— [Laughs.] As I pine for a jamboree, I think it’s time to sign off. Thank you to Maximum Fun for having us on the network. Go to MaximumFun.org for a lot of other great shows. Some of them about movies. Some of them have Alonso in them.
stuart
Uh-huh. Yeah! Alonso, do you have anything you wanna plug?
dan
Yeah! Yeah, yeah!
alonso
Oh, golly! Uh, yeah! If people wanna follow me on Twitter, it’s ADuralde. A-D-U-R-A-L-D-E. Come for the Christmas news, stay for the socialism. [Multiple people laugh.] And yeah! I do a crazy amount of podcasts and if you would listen to them that would make my day.
dan
Thank you to Jordan Kauwling for editing and producing this show. Please rate, review, and subscribe, as they say. But for The Flop House, I have been Dan McCoy.
stuart
I’m Stuart Wellington!
elliott
I’m Elliott Kalan, and our special guest has been—
alonso
Alonso Duralde!
crosstalk
Elliott: Yeah! Dan: [With excessive cheer] See ya later, guys!
stuart
Byeee!
dan
I don’t know what that voice was.
stuart
Oh, I love it. [Elliott laughs.]
music
Light, up-tempo, electric guitar with synth instruments.
crosstalk
Elliott: It’s very hard to—it was— Dan: That’s how I feel about Alonso right now.
dan
This is how I feel about him for making us watch that.
elliott
Yeah. It was very hard to jerk to. That’s what I mean by it being a tearjerker. [Multiple people laugh.] I was crying ‘cause I was like, “I can’t masturbate to this!”
stuart
Uh-huh. Well, I feel like you’re not creative enough, my man. [Music ends.]
music
A cheerful ukulele chord.
speaker 2
Comedy and culture.
speaker 3
Artist owned—
speaker 4
—Audience supported.
About the show
The Flop House is a bimonthly audio podcast devoted to the worst in recent film. Your hosts (Elliott Kalan, Dan McCoy, and Stuart Wellington) watch a questionable film just before each episode, and then engage in an unscripted, slightly inebriated discussion, focusing on the movie’s shortcomings and occasional delights.
Follow @flophousepod on Twitter and @theflophousepodcast on Instagram. Email them at theflophousepodcast@gmail.com.
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