TRANSCRIPT The Flop House Ep. 314: Gemini Man

Our guest for this episode is the terrific Jordan Kauwling, Maximum Fun producer, the woman who has made our recent shows sound better than they ever have, and a sheer delightful delight. We talk about the Ang Lee-directed Will Smith would-be blockbuster, Gemini Man.

Podcast: The Flop House

Episode number: 314

Guests: Jordan Kauwling

Transcript

dan mccoy

On this episode we discuss: Gemini Man!

stuart wellington

Not to be confused with Gemini Dan, my new podcast where Dan McCoy reads horoscopes for Geminis!

dan

You know, I am a Gemini.

stuart

[Through laughter] Oh, cool. [Dan laughs.]

music

Light, up-tempo, electric guitar with synth instruments.

dan

Hey, everyone! Welcome to The Flop House! I’m Dan McCoy.

stuart

Oh, I’m Stuart Wellington.

elliott kalan

I’m Elliott Kalan— [Stuart laughs.] —trying to pick up the cues a little faster than everybody else today. [Dan laughs.] And Dan, we’ve got a special guest with us today, don’t we?

dan

Yes. Uh, we’ve got our, um, well I mean she’s our editor on this show—Jordan Kauwling. She also is an associate producer at MaxFun. She produces, uh… the wildly-successful—as you described it—podcast, I, Podius. Uh—

elliott

And appears on it as well.

dan

Yes. That’s true. Hello, Jordan!

jordan kauwling

What’s up, hoes! [Pause.]

dan

Whoa! [Multiple people laugh.] Whoa!

crosstalk

Stuart: That’s—I mean— Elliott: That’s—that’s—no. But that’s Jordan’s catchphrase. Stuart: Accurate.

elliott

That’s Jordan’s classic catchphrase. [Dan laughs.]

crosstalk

Jordan: It’s a kapuchi— Dan: A different—

jordan

Kapuchi thing. [Dan laughs.]

elliott

Yeah. Uh, and now that we’ve introduced Jordan we’re gonna swerve away from Jordan for a moment, uh, and we’re going to just take a brief moment to remind listeners—if they know already—and tell them if they don’t know—that we are going to do our live, in your house show, uh, Saturday, June 6th at 9PM Eastern/6PM Pacific. The Flop House will be doing our online version of one of our live, uh, stage shows. We’re gonna have presentations. We’re gonna talk about the movie Howard the Duck. Uh, we’re gonna try to—in some way—simulate the idea of audience attraction. We’re not quite sure what we’re going to do with that. It probably will just involve Twitter or something. Uh, you will find it at YouTube.com/c/TheFlopHousePodcast and you can find all the information about it at TheFlopHousePodcast.com! It will be for charity. And there’ll be a list of our approved charities. Uh, on that website, The FlopHousePodcast.com. And if you donate and send us the receipt, you’ll be entered into raffles and stuff! And we’ll go into that in more detail later. Now it’s—back to Jordan! Jordan? [Dan laughs. Stuart joins in.]

crosstalk

Jordan: Were you ready? Elliott: Wait. Just a second. That’s—

elliott

That’s June 6th at 6PM Pacific. So that’s right—666! We’re officially devil-worshippers now. June 6th— [Dan laughs.] 6PM Pacific Time, 9PM Eastern.

dan

[Through laughter] Wow!

elliott

For people on the East Coast, it’s 669—3 more than the devil. Jordan? Back to you. [Dan laughs.]

dan

Uh, okay. Well, this is a podcast. You probably know that.

stuart

Uh-huh! What do we do on this podcast?

dan

We watch a bad movie and then we talk about it. Or, y’know… maybe we don’t know ahead of time! Sometimes… turns out to be good! Sometimes it turns out to be bad. Usually we’ve been led to believe it’s bad. And… on this episode— [Stuart laughs.] —as I said in the beginning—in the introduction—

elliott

Yeah. Wait. Is this Memento? Hold on a second. [Dan laughs.] Is this— [Laughs.] As we Last Year at Marienbad-ing all of a sudden? Hold on. [Laughs.]

dan

Gemini Man was what we watched. Uh, starring William Smith.

stuart

Uh-huh. Directed by… Flop House fave Ang Lee!

crosstalk

Elliott: Mm-hm. Dan: Yeah! I mean…

elliott

I mean, I do like him a lot. Is he a Flop House fave? [Long pause.]

stuart

I mean, he’s a fave of mine.

elliott

Okay. That’s—

stuart

Uh, but we’ve—I don’t think we’ve ever done an Ang Lee movie!

crosstalk

Stuart: It was kind of a joke. Elliott: No, ‘cause he—

elliott

‘Cause he makes good movies!

stuart

‘Cause this is a comedy podcast. And I make jokes sometimes.

elliott

Logic checks out. Now, Jordan, you were interested in doing this movie and I believe there was a geographical reason.

jordan

Yes. I’ve spent the last ten years in—in West Philadelphia. Not born and raised, but the playground is where I spent most of my days— [Stuart laughs.] And, uh, so I wanted to do—when you guys had, uh, given me like a selection of movies that I could pick from I saw this and I was like, yeah, we’re definitely gonna do a Will Smith movie. Um, I regret that decision? But…

crosstalk

Stuart: Ohhhh! Jordan: Y’know. Life is about choices. So what are you gonna do? Dan: Oh, snap. Well, we’ll see—

dan

—as we go along.

elliott

Well, we’ll see what the reason is for that regret. Now, I—I do have a question. Now—the—on the playground, those days, what were you doing there? Chilling? Maxing and relaxing?

jordan

All cool. Yeah.

dan

Yeah. [Multiple people laugh.]

elliott

[Through laughter] Yeah. Excellent. Okay.

stuart

Shooting some meatball outside of my school?

elliott

It’s—it—for some reason that is—I cannot remember so many things and yet the lyrics to that song are buried so deeply in my brain that I’m sure on my deathbed— [Stuart laughs.] —I’ll be croaking them out. [Dan laughs.] Through my dementia at my grandchildren. And they’ll be like, he wasn’t raised in West Philadelphia? Why is he saying these things? At the end of his life, Dad thought he was raised in West Philadelphia. [Laughs.] [Dan laughs.]

dan

Yes. Uh— [Laughs.] He imagined that later in life he lived with his auntie and uncle in Bel-Air, though. [Elliott laughs.] Yes. Well, yeah! It’s a good song! It’s a good theme song.

elliott

It’s a solid theme song. Tells you the story. Exactly what you [inaudible.] Stuart. I believe you are the summary man. Today. For Gemini Man!

stuart

[Clears throat.] Oh, I am! I am—yeah. Exactly. So… the movie opens in Belgium. We’re introduced to Henry Brogan, played by Will Smith.

crosstalk

Elliott: That’s right. Osmosis Jones himself. Will Smith. Stuart: And he uses nice— Dan: Uh—

stuart

Wait, he was Osmosis Jones?

dan

No, he wasn’t. [Laughs.] He was not—

elliott

You guys?

crosstalk

Dan: —Osmosis Jones. Elliott: You guys?

elliott

You fell into my trap. [Laughs.]

stuart

I feel like Osmosis Jones would’ve been a bigger hit ‘cause Will Smith’s a huge name!

elliott

No, Osmosis Jones was, uh… who was it?

jordan

He was the devil in that one dumb Colin Farrell movie.

crosstalk

Elliott: Oh, it was Chris Rock was Osmosis. Yep. Yep. Stuart: Oh, The Winter’s Tale, right? Is that—

elliott

And he was a genie in Aladdin! So, yeah, now he’s—and now he plays a clone! So he’s portrayed a number of, uh, science fiction and mystical characters.

jordan

Yeah.

stuart

Okay. So, uh, we open on—oh, I hit the wrong button. [Dan laughs.] We open in Belgium. [Elliott laughs.] Uh… Henry Brogan, played by Will Smith, is an assassin. And he uses a high-powered sniper rifle to carefully shoot a bad guy who is riding on a high-speed train. It’s an almost impossible shot, but he is just that good.

dan

He’s kind of a deadshot, if you will.

stuart

Uh-huh. [Laughs.] Uh, I’ve never heard of that! Is that, uh, a name of something? Did you just coin that phrase?

dan

[Through laughter] Yup. I think that’s, uh, copyright 2020 Dan McCoy. Now, so he literally, like—this is a very fast-moving train. He literally makes the shot of this guy through a window of the train from hills, like, it looks like—like a mile away or more. Now… why—he has a man on the train. Why doesn’t that man just kill the guy? [Laughs.]

stuart

Oh, actually, that’s a good question! Guys?

elliott

I think it’s probably a lot easier to get away from an assassination if you’re on the train with the body. Than if you are a mile away and can just walk away.

dan

Yeah. But I mean, like, he could poison him. Y’know. It could be a subtle killing. It doesn’t need to be, like…

elliott

But Dan. Dan. That—come on. [Dan laughs.] You’ve been reading too many Agatha Christie books. [Dan laughs.] That’s not how— [Stuart laughs.] —that’s not how anybody does it. Poison him.

stuart

Dan, were you really hoping that they were—that the movie’s gonna open with poisoning the guy and then the whole thing’s a murder mystery on the train? [Multiple people laugh.]

dan

Why not?

stuart

So. Uh, he manages this impossible shot. Uh, and then we cut to a little bit later! Henry’s hanging out on his, uh, isolated home all by himself. It’s in the country. It’s nice. Y’know. He’s wearing sweaters. He looks great. Uh, but you know what? He’s retiring! He’s getting old. He’s lost a step. He’s the best killing in the world, according to his handler Del. Uh, but he’s, y’know, he’s worried—

crosstalk

Stuart: —that he might be slipping and he might kill someone. Elliott: You know what they told him? You know what they—

elliott

You know what they told him when they assigned him that handler?

stuart

What’s that?

elliott

They said—dude, you’re getting a Del.

dan

[Unimpressed] Oh.

stuart

Oh, I guess that would make sense! ‘Cause his handler’s name’s Del, right?

elliott

But he misunderstood and he was like—Adele, the singer, is gonna be my handler? No, no, no. And they said, no. You’re not getting “Adele.” You’re getting “a Del.” Wait but you just say—yeah. Adele, the singer, “Rolling in the Deep”? That one? And they’re like, no, no, no, no. Hold on. Let me write the sentence out for you. And that’s when he finally understood what they were saying.

stuart

Mm-hm. Yup. [Dan laughs.]

dan

Now, when—when Jordan came to us— [Elliott laughs.] —to be our editor… which I was very excited about ‘cause, uh, it was right when I was getting burned out that she appeared. Uh, we were told that she enjoyed the show. But watching her face as Elliott talks… [Multiple people laugh.] —would suggest—

elliott

Well, that’s—she doesn’t—she doesn’t like that part of the show.

dan

Oh, okay.

elliott

Her favorite part of the show is when we sign off at the end and she’s like, ahhh, it’s over! [Laughs.]

jordan

My favorite part is when the song goes [sings tune of theme song clip that plays at the end of the show]. [All laugh.]

stuart

Yep. Then your curse is lifted for another two weeks.

jordan

No, I’m kidding. I absolutely love this show. And I’m so happy to be on this show and talk about this really, really silly movie. [Dan laughs. Stuart joins in.]

elliott

Um, it’s in some ways silly. In some ways, serious. We’ll get to that later. Uh… but yeah! So, uh, so he’s the best of the best. He’s the best super-killer but he’s getting tired of it.

crosstalk

Elliott: He can’t look at himself in the mirror anymore, right? Stuart: And also—but he’s also got a weakness, guys!

stuart

He’s got a conscience. He doesn’t wanna shoot little kids— [Dan laughs.] —on accident.

dan

But this is the— [Elliott laughs.] He has developed this conscience, uh, 72 kills into his, uh, life as an assassin? And that was one of my biggest problems with the movie right off the bat? Is… I wasn’t quite sure why we were supposed to sympathize with this guy? Who is like…

elliott

Because he’s Will Smith, Dan. That’s why we sympathize with him.

crosstalk

Elliott: ‘Cause he’s Will Smith. Stuart: That’s actually a good point. [Laughs.]

dan

[Laughs.] No, I know that that’s what the moviemakers count on, but I was like—ohhh. 72 kills in, you’ve suddenly realized that maybe shooting people is bad.

elliott

Now, that—now the clue to that might be also that this script apparently was floating around Hollywood trying to get made for about 20 years. And—

stuart

Yeah. It was—it was one of those blacklist scripts, right?

crosstalk

Elliott: Oh, was it? Stuart: And, uh, just—

stuart

—for the—for the people who are tuning in, uh, blacklist scripts are scripts that James Spa00:09:37der— [Dan laughs.] —writes down in his little black book— [Elliott laughs.] —and then Brittany Murphy’s always trying to steal it.

host

And, uh, it—only when he’s got a hat on. Right? [Stuart laughs.]

dan

No, of course—

stuart

He hides it in his hat.

dan

Stu is of course goofing. Black—blacklist scripts are scripts— [Elliott laughs.] —that a guy puts on a list claiming that they’re the best scripts that haven’t been produced. And then when they’re made into movies, they’re always bad!

elliott

Yeah. They’re—they’re—I don’t know that I’ve ever seen a blacklist movie— [Multiple people laugh.] —that was—that turned out to be a good movie? But I haven’t seen ‘em all! I don’t know. But, uh, this feels like a… late-‘90s, early 2000s premise? Where we love assassins and we love people who shoot people? Uh, to be honest, though, people still like that. Like, why is Deadpool the hero of this movie? ‘Cause he’s—‘cause he feels bad about himself? Like, he kills lots of people. But, uh, this—this is a movie that— [Stuart laughs.] —a lotta different stars—they tried to make it with. At one point or another. And I think it only really works with Will Smith at all. Because he’s got so much natural charisma and I totally buy him as someone who… uh… is like… the best at something? And now wants to get out and they won’t let him? But also because—hey, guys! Guess what? He’s now the Tommy Lee Jones of the Men in Black. That’s right—he’s the one—he’s no longer the new, young guy who’s joining the secret government group. [Dan sighs.] Now he’s the old guy who wants to leave! And now it’s like… full circle.

dan

Mm-kay.

elliott

We all start as Will Smith and we end up as Tommy Lee Jones. That’s life.

jordan

One thing that stood out to me in this movie is that there was, uh, almost a complete lack of charisma from Will Smith. That I could—that I could pick up on. Uh, he—

elliott

[Laughs.] Well, it was—he’s—I’ll give you that is the least charisma that I think Will Smith has ever had in a movie? And there’s—

stuart

Uhhhh… what about that one with his son where they’re trapped on that planet?

elliott

Oh, you’re right. After Earth. That was—

stuart

Where he plays, like… like, Cypher Raige or whatever is his character’s name?

elliott

Well, he’s just—uh— [Laughs.] [Dan laughs.] I don’t think that’s his name in that.

dan

I think that’s a different one.

elliott

But—well, he’s, uh, he’s—well, ‘cause he’s a shell of a man. But you have to admit—he’s really good at fighting. Uh, but so Stuart—

crosstalk

Elliott: He just wants to be an—he just wants to be on a boat, right? Stuart: So at this point, we’re introduced—

stuart

Yeah. So we’re introduced to, uh, our—our other lead of this movie. That’s right! We’re introduced to Danny— [Elliott laughs.] —played by Mary Elizabeth Winstead. Uh, and she is a—she’s just a grad student who just started working at the local marina! Now, she and Henry have a little bit of fun. They do a little bit of flirting. He’s—I actually think he’s pretty good at flirting for a murderous loner. Y’know? For a guy who lives all by himself and just kills people, y’know, he’s got some jokes.

crosstalk

Dan: I mean, this is—I will say— Stuart: Um—

dan

—this is like… mild flirting, though? Like, uh… when we were watching—

elliott

I would even go so far as to call it “small talk.”

dan

Yeah. Like— [Stuart laughs.] Well, Audrey was worried that she was gonna end up being his love interest? And there is, like, uh, something like a—a 16-year difference between them or something. Uh… but…

stuart

Yeah, but she’s—isn’t—isn’t she dating Ewan McGregor in real life? That’s about the same—

crosstalk

Stuart: He—they’re about the same age, right? Dan: Look, I’m not gonna cast aspersions—

dan

—on anyone’s, uh, real-life, uh… uh… dating life. I’m just saying that it’s a bad habit of—of movies to always have this happen. Uh, with an older man and a younger woman. But to the movie’s credit—

stuart

I mean, I would date either of those guys! They’re great! [Laughs.]

dan

Again, I’m not saying that. [Laughs.] I’m just pointing out—to the movie’s credit—

crosstalk

Elliott: No. I—no. The cred—no. The—the— Dan: It does not shoehorn in—

dan

—a romantic, uh, thing between them. Like, there’s actually a scene where, uh… [sighs.] Where like he says something, like, oh, if he was the younger version of himself, maybe. Like, like… because there is—spoiler alert—a younger version of himself in this movie.

elliott

Yeah. Well, it’s on the poster. So. I think—I think that’s okay. That spoiler. But, uh, the—I think—one, uh, Dan—the pull-quote I think from episode is that Dan thinks—would not deign to date either Will Smith or Ewan McGregor— [Dan laughs.] They’re too old for him! No fogeys! Uh, the other thing—

crosstalk

Elliott: The other thing I was gonna say is— Stuart: [Laughs.] And it’s— [Laughs.] It’s kinda weird, though!

stuart

‘Cause I think, like, between—if you compare the two of them, uh, I feel like, uh, Ewan McGregor’s, like, later-career stuff has been a little more exciting than Will—Will Smith’s, uh, stuff. Why don’t you guys discuss? [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

Uh, but also I would say that I bet you there was an earlier version of this script that was—where they did have a relationship? Just—just like—there’s a scene later on where, uh, she has to strip to show that she’s not wearing a wire? And it’s handled as tastefully as that can be done, where she’s off-camera for most of it? And I guarantee you there’s a version of this movie that could’ve been made 20 years ago where it’s a woman who takes off all their clothes on camera for that scene? Like, it feels like there are times when this movie’s kind of trying to fight what the movie—the shape that the movie is—is in? And—but—

stuart

I’m sure that original script, uh, Henry lived in like a warehouse that just had a bunch of like curtains draped around? And he would be practicing his karate in his like— [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.] Like, underpants for a bunch of it?

dan

Yeah.

elliott

But he’s also a huge fan of whatever band they made a deal with to have on the soundtrack. So like Garbage or something like that? Like, he’s—he’s huge with. Or like, uh, I don’t know Chumbawumba or something. Or, uh… [Stuart laughs.] Or—

stuart

[Through laughter] Yeah!

elliott

What’s the—what’s the band that did the “Walking on the Sun” song?

dan

Uh…

elliott

Smashmouth? Like, he’s a big Smashmouth fan? Like…

dan

I had the same thought, though, Elliott, with that scene later on. Uh, where she’s asked to strip to show she doesn’t have a wire. ‘Cause it was like… Ang Lee, like, shoots it, like, so… like, he does not want the camera to be ogling her? Which was, uh… kinda—it was like a nice—

stuart

[Through laughter] Much to Dan’s anger.

crosstalk

Dan: No, no! Elliott: It almost makes ya wonder—

elliott

It almost makes ya wonder—

crosstalk

Elliott: —why they left that part in when they could’ve easily just not had it. Yeah. Dan: Well that’s what I was gonna say! It was a nice—

dan

It was a nice way of handling it but I’m like, you know you can just cut that scene, right? [Laughs.] Like you can just change the—the script if you don’t want [through laughter] to be exploitative. But anyway.

elliott

So anyway. I—but I think—and later on I think it’s implied—I mean, he—it’s the young Will Smith we are told is a virgin and it’s kind of implied that the older Will Smith is a virgin. Which makes me think that the kind of light small-talk flirting he does is actually supposed to be not that attractive. So that he can deflect women who are drawn into his natural charisma.

jordan

Well, he comes off to me—this was the point in the movie I—I nicknamed Henry, uh, uh, “Sensitive Incel”? Because he really came off— [Multiple people laugh.] —a creepy guy to me. Especially with that—that relationship with Danny. Which was really weird ‘cause I—I—I wouldn’t judge anyone, y’know, for an age difference in a relationship, you know, as long as two people are consenting adults. But there was an age difference between—

stuart

Yeah, Dan!

jordan

—the two, uh, Fresh Prince and Fresh King characters. Um, yeah. It was—he was kind of a weirdo!

elliott

Yeah. I think he’s a weirdo but it’s also—I think—if you—I would read it as that—that flirting as him trying to flush out whether she is a spy. Which is the thing that he—which is ultimately his objective. But I think you’re right. Sensitive incel is a good way to describe it, especially because—when ya clone someone, it involves their cells. And going in the cell!

dan

Yeah. Well we’re jumping all over the place. Let’s get back to Stu here.

elliott

Yeah. We’re jumping all over the place like a regular Gemini man!

stuart

Uh-huh. So instead of jumping all over the place, we’re gonna jump onto a boat! Where Henry takes a boat out to see his friend Jack, who has a matching tattoo with him so they clearly have history. Uh… They are hanging out on Jack’s yacht. Yeah he’s just one of those guys who wears a shirt buttoned-down to about the middle of his chest and he’s old but he’s got a young girlfriend. Y’know. He’s one of those guys.

crosstalk

Elliott: And he’s ex-Intelligence. Stuart: Uh, and he’s like—

stuart

He’s like retired a little bit but he’s still—y’know, he’s still cool. Uh, but he’s still got his finger in the game because he just got information that Henry’s last hit—who we thought was a bad guy—is not actually a bad guy. That he’d been lied to by his contact at the DIA. Which is a government organization that he seems to take hits from.

elliott

Now this—this—this character was one of several where I’m like—all these older white guys wanna show that they’re real cool with Will Smith and that he thinks they’re really cool friends. Like, there’s just a string of them throughout where it’s like—his different bosses and—and buddies that he works with who are all like, hey man! Great to see you! And he gives them a big hug? And I was like, all these guys wanna—wanna brag to their kids, I guess. That they’re big friends with Will Smith. But I don’t think it came off as realistic.

crosstalk

Dan: Uh, Elliott, I— Elliott: Do you guys think so?

dan

I think you may be misunderstanding something about the movie. He’s not playing himself, Will Smith. [Stuart laughs.] He is a—he is a man who is employed by the…

elliott

I thought it was called “Will Smith: Gemini Man.” [Dan laughs.]

dan

I mean, it probably would’ve done better in theatres. Yeah. Under that title. Although they—it’s not like people didn’t know [through laughter] that Will Smith was in the film.

crosstalk

Elliott: I mean—to be honest— Dan: Or there were two of them.

elliott

How—how different would the movie be if he was not a government assassin but he was Will Smith, Movie Star? [Stuart laughs.]

dan

[Through laughter] I—

elliott

And he was—found out he was cloned?

stuart

I mean, I feel like that’s an interesting idea. That they’re like, this guy’s made the studio so much money. They now need to replace him with the younger version. I mean, in a way that’s such an interesting meta-commentary on the current state of digital effects and whatnot. [Dan laughs.]

crosstalk

Elliott: Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Jordan: That’s what—

jordan

After Earth was supposed to be. Jay—what’s his son’s name? Jayden? Jaylen?

stuart

Jayden. Yeah.

jordan

Yeah. He was supposed to be the new Will Smith, except he can’t act. At all. So.

elliott

Do you think it’s possible that he’s a clone that they just raised as his son and they were like—

stuart

Wowww!

elliott

—this is how I keep going.

jordan

I think that’s absolutely possible. In fact, it is. That’s exactly what happened. [Dan laughs.]

elliott

Wow!

crosstalk

Stuart: [Through laughter] Oh, wow! Oh! Dan: You have the insider information! Elliott: And as a—

elliott

As a former not-exactly-native of Philadelphia, but resident, that’s—you’re privy to that sort of information.

jordan

Yeah. Yeah. [Stuart laughs.]

stuart

Oh, that’s great. So, uh… while they’re having this conversation, uh… we cut to a secret chamber somewhere in a government building where, uh, his—the leader head of the DIA—a woman who goes by “Lassiter”—uh, and, uh, Clive Owen, uh, everybody’s favorite English guy— [Dan laughs.] —playing a character named—

crosstalk

Dan: Uh, no, no. Stuart. Elliott: [Laughs.] I have to admit—

dan

My favorite English guy—is Sherlock Holmes. [Stuart laughs.] I know he’s fictional.

crosstalk

Dan: But he still qualifies. Elliott: And your second-favorite English guy is Michael Caine, right?

dan

[Laughs.] No. He’s just—he’s just the English guy most associated with me.

elliott

Oh, I see. And of course my favorite English guy is—the Beefeater on the Beefeater Gin bottle. ‘Cause I like his hat. [Dan laughs.]

stuart

Uh-huh. And Jordan, who’s your favorite English guy?

jordan

Uh, John Boyega.

crosstalk

Dan: Wow. Okay. That’s a good choice. Stuart: Oh! Actually, that’s a good call! Elliott: Mm-hm.

stuart

Um, okay. So, uh… Clive—Clive Owen is playing a character named Clay Verris. Uh, and they are, uh, the two of them are surveilling Henry and Jack on their yacht using some kind of a drone, I’m assuming. And they listen in to the conversation. They realize that Henry knows that there’s something up and they decide he’s too big of a risk and they need to get rid of him. He cannot retire. They’re gonna kill him. Uh, or retire him permanently. Uh… but his—his former boss, uh, the DIA wants to handle it internally, though Clive Owen thinks he should use his own team, a thing called—Gemini.

crosstalk

Dan: Now, I wanna say something here. Elliott: Bum, bum, bummm!

dan

So if he was returning anyway… did he really need to—uh, know this information? ‘Cause it seems like this is the information that triggers, uh, Clive Owen to want to kill him. This is the like only loose end that really needs to be tied up with Will Smith. So it’s not really nice of his friend to be like, hey, you shot this, uh—this wrong dude.

elliott

You’re right Dan. You’re right. It was not nice of his friend to tell him that he had been suckered and led to kill an innocent person. He shoulda just let him just retire blissfully with that stain on his soul and when he showed up in Hell and the Devil was like, you killed 71 bad people and 1 good person. And that’s why you’re here. And then Will Smith would look up to Heaven and his friend Jack would be, like, sorry, pal! I just didn’t have the heart!

crosstalk

Elliott: And just rides his cloud yacht into the gates of Heaven. Dan: Oh—oh, I’m sorry. Do—

dan

Do you think that anything Will Smith does in the rest of this film— [Laughs.] Like, makes up for [through laughter] killing that guy? I’m not really sure what you’re—

elliott

I mean, I was watching the director’s cut where every now and then it cuts to God going, I’ll allow it. And then at the end his heart is weighed by Anubis and Anubis is like, ya juuust made it.

dan

Alright.

stuart

Yeah. I think there’s originally a sequence like in, uh, Dead or Alive 2? Where the hit man is killing a bunch of people and then sending the money to starving people? [Laughs.]

elliott

Yeah, yeah. Exactly.

stuart

And then he grows angel wings?

elliott

So Dan, you say the real villain of this movie is not Clay Verris—who—without, uh, Henry’s knowledge clones him and raises that boy into a murder machine man—uh, and then creates—spoiler alert—even more bad stuff. But is actually his friend Jack, who ruined his retirement. [Dan laughs.]

dan

[Through laughter] That’s right! [Stuart laughs.] Well, I mean, he was gonna go away and not shoot anyone anymore. And now, uh, he’s gotta shoot a bunch of people to—to protect himself!

stuart

So, uh, well with that in mind— [Dan laughs.] Uh… uh—

crosstalk

Stuart: We get to see Henry— Elliott: Hey, guys, remind me—

elliott

Remind me to say at the end that the real Gemini was the friends we made along the way. ‘Cause he does end up with a circle of friends at the end.

crosstalk

Stuart: Dan—Dan, put that in the notes. Dan: I mean, can’t you say it now?

dan

I think you did say it now, actually.

elliott

Well, we haven’t met the friends yet, though.

dan

Technically.

elliott

So the audience—audience, forget I said that.

stuart

Oh! So, uh, speaking of friends, uh, Henry and Danny are having a little bit of playful flirting as he ferrets out that she’s actually working for the DIA to, uh, monitor Henry. Uh—

crosstalk

Stuart: I don’t know. Did you guys feel this was— Elliott: I think it was kind of—it was kind of a tipoff—

elliott

When, uh, Danny ordered Henry the beer he likes to drink before he arrived?

dan

Well, it was—I think it was more of a tipoff when he, like… hassles her very threateningly about whether she’s gonna be—she’s, like, uh, spying on him. And she denies it and denies it and denies it but then agrees to go to dinner with him. [Laughs.] Like, something that I think— [Stuart laughs.] —would only make sense if she was surveilling him.

elliott

Fair.

jordan

That’s why he’s the sensitive incel. Because if—I mean, yeah. She was spying on him. But just—if I was a regular woman out on the street and a guy comes up to me and he’s like, I got—I gotta go to your house. [Dan laughs.] Let me buy you—I would be, like, I would pepper spray him. So I just don’t understand why… we treat this as normal in this movie. It’s not normal.

elliott

It is the—it is the spy equivalent of when a girl breaks up with a guy and the guy’s like, give me your reasons! What’s your reason for breaking up with me? ‘Cause if it’s not a good enough reason, we’re still going out. [Dan laughs.] But in this case it’s like—she’s like, I’m not a spy. Oh yeah? Take me to your house so I can search it for spy stuff! [Dan laughs.] Uh, well, why don’t we just go on a date instead?

stuart

That’s—that was probably the wildest part. That’s like the equivalence of me, like, lecturing a woman on the merits of a katana and then making her go on a date with me. [Multiple people laugh.]

elliott

I mean, to be fair, it was—seeing him—to make that impossible shot on the train? I was like, yep, it’s a movie! But then seeing this scene? I was like— [Multiple people laugh.] —this doesn’t make any sense.

dan

I wanna say that Stuart did it the right way. He made someone marry him and then lectured her on the benefits of the katana. [Laughs.]

stuart

Uh-huh. [Laughs.]

elliott

And that’s why he’s been recording from a storage space the past couple weeks!  [Multiple people laugh.]

stuart

Oh yeah. I guess, uh, my family drama is all out in the open, guys! [Multiple people laugh.]

elliott

Uh, so—so Stuart—so they—so he—she admits that she is a spy. Right?

stuart

Yeah. But—but they seem kinda cool with it. Like, they make some jokes and shit. Whatever. Um, however—the DIA is not cool with it. And they make their own move to clean up this mess. They send a team and—that kills Jack on his yacht. And they kill, uh, they kill Henry’s buddy Marino while he’s out on a—on a surveillance mission. Uh, they send a team to kill Henry but he just—he smokes ‘em. Uh, and then he goes and he wakes up Danny. Creepy style. And then she agrees to team up with him and then they go kill some more goons and figure out— [Dan laughs.] —who’s trying to kill him.

dan

Well she— [Laughs.] She agrees to kill—team up with him because they’re trying to kill her, too. It’s— [Laughs.] Like—like she kinda does it out of, uh, necessity to stay alive. It’s not like she’s like—

crosstalk

Dan: —you make a good point! Elliott: I mean, that was—

elliott

That was—but that was one of the points where I was like, well why did they send anyone to kill her?

crosstalk

Dan: No, I agree. Elliott: Why didn’t they just reassign her?

dan

Yeah. I—

elliott

And then—

dan

The only thing I can think of is maybe—because she was surveilling him—she also heard the stuff on the boat? I don’t know. But otherwise it does not make sense that they’re like—like, she’s not a loose end at this point.

elliott

No.

jordan

This was my second-favorite part of the movie. Because he comes to her house—I guess he breaks in. She’s sleeping in bed and he’s just like, you’re burnt. I’m burnt. Everybody’s burnt. [Multiple people laugh.] I’m like, this is definitely incel nonsense. [Stuart laughs.]

stuart

Yeah. The—there’s a fair amount of presumptiveness coming off of Henry. Um, but there was—I did like the scene when she is trying to get the keys to the boat in the little boat shack. And she gets jumped by a dude. And the whole time I was assuming that Henry was going to save her, but nope! She whips that dude’s ass and, uh, finds out the information they need. So that was cool.

dan

I think—and—I think Mary Elizabeth Winstead—I mean, like, she—she was also in Birds of Prey. But I think she’s, like, really good at these action roles. I—I like—I mean, I like her a lot as an actress in general, but—but she just, uh, I don’t know. She had a solid competence radiating off of her in this part.

crosstalk

Jordan: Didn’t just whoop his ass. Stuart: Yeah, she’s great!

jordan

She, like… broke all of his teeth and handed them to Will Smith. [Stuart laughs.] Like someone asks you for change for a dollar. It was— [Dan laughs.] —pretty badass. [Laughs.]

dan

And I wanted Will Smith to be, like, ew! Why did you hand me teeth? [Stuart laughs.]

elliott

It was weirder that he just threw ‘em back in his mouth like they were tic-tacs. [Dan laughs.] And just— [Stuart laughs.] And was just like, cool, now I got extra teeth.

stuart

And he’s like—is this your change for the keys? [Elliott laughs.] What’s—I gave you a twenty!

elliott

It was—was a better fight scene than in Last Blood when Rambo just sticks his fingers into a man’s, uh, sternum and—oh, not sternum. Sticks his fingers and just rips out a man’s collarbone? [Dan laughs.] Uh… This—this was almost as nonsensical [inaudible].

stuart

I don’t think that counts as a fight scene [through laughter] Elliott.

elliott

He—he was fighting the surface tension of the man’s skin— [Dan laughs.]

crosstalk

Elliott: —to get in there and get that collarbone out. Stuart: Yeah, you’re right. You’re right.

stuart

I’m wrong. You’re right. Uh, okay. So, uh… they—y’know, uh, there’s, y’know, another feverish meeting between Clive Owen and the head of the DIA and he’s like, I think we need to send Gemini after him again. I have a special soldier to clean up this mess. Uh, whatever. Y’know? We—we know who that special soldier is gonna be in a second. So Henry then calls another old war buddy with another matching tattoo. Uh, a guy named Baron who’s also retired, played by Benedict Wong who is very charismatic and fun.

dan

Mm-hm. You may know him as, uh, one of the other wizards from the Doctor Strange corner of the MCU.

elliott

Uh, his character’s name is “Wong,” Dan. It’s his real last name. Like, it’s just—it’s not that hard to remember.

dan

I didn’t say I didn’t remember his name! I was explaining [through laughter] who he was in a way that would appeal to the widest swath of our audience. Perhaps people who don’t memorize character names.

crosstalk

Elliott: Uh, all you have to say is he plays Wong, Dr. Strange’s, uh, uh, assistant in the Doctor Strange movies. Stuart: He is—he is the act— Dan: Ugh. I don’t think there was anything wrong with the way [through laughter] I described who he was.

elliott

But the way—you—it—it—I think it raised more questions than it answered ‘cause suddenly I was like, how many wizards are there in the Doctor Strange corner of the Marvel universe?

crosstalk

Elliott: Does his character have a name? As far as I know he doesn’t! Dan: I mean, there are tons—

dan

I mean, there was Tilda Swinton before, uh, spoiler alert—she gets killed. Uh, there were the other, like, monks at her like, uh, Dr. Strange, uh, retreat. [Multiple people laugh.]

elliott

So this is—so you’re describing Gemini Man, you—

stuart

Just “Baron Mordo” doesn’t count anymore, huh?

dan

Yeah.

elliott

Well, just—that—if Dan was [inaudible] Gemini Man he’d be like, Will Smith stars as one of many special ops soldiers in Gemini Man[Stuart laughs.] They’re like, well, no, he’s one of the major characters in the movie.

crosstalk

Elliott: Let’s call him that. Dan: Uh, I mean, I—

dan

—don’t know when the last time you saw Doctor Strange was, Elliott, but there are several notable [through laughter] masters of the mystic arts in that film.

elliott

It’d be, like, now, C-3P0 is one of many droids in the Star Wars universe— [Laughs.]

dan

Oh, god. This was a very needless, uh—

crosstalk

Dan: —sidetrack. Elliott: Now—next—next we’re introduced— Stuart: So—

elliott

Next we’re introduced to Darth Vader, one of many Imperial officers in the Imperial Navy. That’s the Empire’s armada that enforces the Emperor’s laws throughout the galaxy.

dan

Mm-kay.

stuart

So Benedict Wong in this movie, his character’s that, like, y’know that—that—that type of character that shows up in an action-adventure movie who’s the, like, retired friend who only wears Hawaiian shirts and like can fly a plane? Like—that’s—y’know, that’s—it’s everybody’s dream?

elliott

He’s totally Burn Notice-ing.

dan

He’s also the friend in every one of these movies who’s, like, [through laughter] willing to drop everything in—including his home? To, uh, help the hero? Like, he gets burned too and can’t go back and is like, well, whatever.

elliott

I mean, he literally gets burned. To death. Eventually. [Jordan laughs.]

dan

Oh, spoiler.

elliott

Spoiler alert. [Dan laughs.] In case you wanted to stop the podcast now [through laughter] and watch the movie. [Laughs.]

stuart

Okay. So, uh… Baron hides them out in his home in Cartegena. Uh, and he… Henry tracks down—he uses a phone to call and threaten his old handler Del. And Del kinda spills a little bit of the—the history of Gemini. Uh, which is a private military contractor that is run by Clay Verris, played by Clive Owen, and, uh, it—they’re involved in some way. I don’t remember exactly which parts of the—the background is explained at this point. But it’s one of multiple info-dumps that are kind of spread out throughout the movie.

elliott

There’s also a brief moment of, uh, Baron just watching soccer on TV with his dog. That I really liked a lot. [Multiple people laugh.]

stuart

Uh, so of course a killer tracks them to Cartegena. Uh, Henry leads the killer away, uh, so that his friends can escape. He gets the drop on that killer, but guys? What makes this killer… different?

elliott

Uh, he’s—he’s mostly computer animation? [Dan laughs. Everyone else joins in.]

stuart

Nope! Uh, well—maybe. I don’t—I don’t know the actual technical details. But it looks like a younger version of Henry! It looks like a young Will Smith! Uh—

elliott

And guys, I’m gonna go out on a limb here. This action sequence is phenomenal.

crosstalk

Stuart: Yeah, it’s great! Dan: This is a great action sequence.

dan

Like, it goes on for a while and it’s, y’know, super well-choreographed. Although there are like weird moments like toward the end where, uh, younger Henry is like beating up older Henry using a motorcycle? And older Henry seems only sort of mildly inconvenienced by this? And I kept expecting there to be another shoe that was dropping saying that, uh, Will Smith was a super soldier of some kind? [Laughs.] Because I had no idea how he’s still alive after being slammed with a motorcycle wheel. [Laughs.]

elliott

That he—she gets—he kinda shrugged off getting hit in the face with a motorcycle? [Laughs.]

dan

[Through laughter] Yes.

stuart

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Having seen Pet Sematary Two I know that a motorcycle wheel is the ideal way to kill somebody. [Laughs.]

elliott

There’s also the part where he—uh—where Junior—the young clone—he swipes the motorcycle wheel under and Will Smith—with all—like—like a frog would!—leaps it in the air just high enough to do it? [Dan laughs.] And it’s like, you can kinda see the wires pulling his clothes up? At that moment? So it’s like—there were moments where it was this amazing action scene and at the end they kind of ran out of realistic things for him to do and it briefly became Commando. But that was okay. Y’know. Why not? It’s a movie about clones! Why not?

dan

Yeah.

stuart

I love—I love that you also—you also—this is an action scene that begins in one place and it turns into a chase and it, uh… you really get a sense of the geography of Cartagena! It looks like a really beautiful city!

elliott

You really learned the schedule of most of the working people of Cartegena. Because early on in the fight there is nobody on the streets. And then suddenly there is tons of people. So it’s like… they’re—they’re fighting past when everybody wakes up and showers and then it’s time to go to work ‘cause they were running around the streets of Cartagena just firing guns at each other for a while and I was like, oh, I guess nobody’s up and about! But when it turns into a chase sequence on motorcycles and you needs cars to zoom around, suddenly there are people everybody.

dan

And I’m gonna tip my hand a little bit here and say, like, uh—

elliott

No, Dan! There’s a drink in it! It’ll spill everywhere! [Laughs.]

dan

Uh, no. It—this—we said that this is a good action sequence. Uh, a lot of the shots—like, this movie is shot beautifully. Like, there are a lot of like things that… could be… just… boring like exposition shots that they—he finds some interesting way of… of—of framing or… of, uh… y’know, like, doing the choreography of this scene? And it really is, like—okay. This is like… movie—this script that isn’t much of anything got handed to a really, really [through laughter] good director. And you can see that.

elliott

It is a movie where the whole time you’re like, why did Ang Lee make this movie?

stuart

I like how—and I like how like bright and colorful most of the movie is, but particularly this action scene.

dan

Yeah.

crosstalk

Elliott: There’s, uh, there’s a part in this action scene— Stuart: Uh, okay. So—

elliott

—where there’s one shot where there’s a lot of firing and then young Will Smith slides down a palm tree and throws a grenade in and Will Smith just slaps it out of the way? [Dan laughs.] So that it—and then it explodes down below him? And I had—I watched that, I think, three times. [Dan laughs.] It was—

stuart

Yeah. I watched it as—almost as many times as I watched that footage of the protestor, uh, full volleying a gas canister being lobbed at him that was floating around Twitter the other day. Um, okay! So— [Laughs.] Not to let the real world bleed into this, uh, silly movie. Um, okay. Uh—

elliott

We—we don’t wanna let the real world bleed into this movie about a black man whose body is used as property by a paternalistic, older white man. Who—who—who pretends that he’s a good friend of this young black man and a father figure while using him as a—as a soldier and a tool and then later develops another young black man who can’t feel pain. There’s a lot of things going on underneath this movie that the movie is just kind of not dealing with.

jordan

Oh, shit! Gemini Man is a documentary! [Multiple people laugh.]

elliott

Oh noooo!

stuart

Uh, yeah. Well I mean well we’ll get to all this stuff over time, I’m sure. The, um—okay. So there’s, uh, the—the—the—the chase and fight sequence ends. It looks, uh, Henry seems to be holding back. He knows there’s something up. Junior is—before Junior’s able to kill him, uh… and also I kinda like that like they specifically show Junior’s gun running out of ammo so that’s why he’s using his motorcycle [through laughter] to try and kill Henry? [Laughs.] [Dan laughs.] Uh, okay. But then the cops show up. Uh, Junior runs. Uh, Henry is briefly arrested and then immediately is, uh, gets out of jail. [Laughs.]

dan

[Through laughter] Yeah. This is sort of handwaved away. Like—

elliott

Yeah. They’re, like, uh, I mean also the fact that they’re like—if we’re gonna get where we need to go, we’re gonna need a private airplane. Wait! I know a guy! Cut to them on a private airplane. [Dan laughs.] That was the moment where it was like, hold on a second. [Laughs.]

stuart

I do like that they have a little bit of throwaway dialogue, too, as they’re leaving the police station. [Laughs.] Where, like, Henry’s like—to Danny, who had like got—sprung him from jail. He’s like, oh, wow, that was amazing! [Multiple people laugh.] Oh, that was great. So, uh, yeah! So they’re—they borrow a jet. Uh, we get a little bit of backstory on the two of them. They’re on their way to Budapest where they’re going to try to meet up with Yuri, the contact of, uh, his former friend Jack. Uh, that had given him the information that the last—Henry’s last hit had actually been a bad job.

crosstalk

Dan: And Yuri is a big fan of, uh— Stuart: Uh, okay! So—

dan

—of Henry. And like makes specific reference to a lot of stuff that Henry did recently? In a way that… y’know, like, Henry comments on? And I’m like, okay, this is gonna be some sort of plot thread. And it does not develop [through laughter] into anything. Like, I guess he’s just—

crosstalk

Dan: —has like— Elliott: No, they’re—they’re—

dan

Uh, ESPN Henry that he watches at home. [Elliott laughs.] [Through laughter] And knows everything that he does.

elliott

That—they’re edging into, uh, um…

crosstalk

Dan: John Wick character? John Wick? Elliott: Oh, why can’t I remember? Y’know, those—

elliott

Yeah! John Wick stuff where it’s like, oh, he’s a famous assassin who has fans who follow his exploits. [Dan laughs.] Like, in, uh, in—there was a certain point in Marvel comics where Wolverine became famous? And I was like, uh, this character doesn’t work for me the same way if everyone recognizes him? [Laughs.] [Dan laughs.]

stuart

The—I mean, I think—I think it… I’m—I could be giving the movie too much credit, but I think it’s implied that, uh… later on we find out that, uh… Henry is being tracked because he has been chipped? Uh, and I—I suspect that Yuri is using some kind of spy satellite to watch this badass assassin battle dudes. But I could be wrong.

elliott

That’s very possible.

stuart

Uh, I mean—if I had access to that stuff I’d watch all kinds of crazy battles! [Dan laughs.] Um—

dan

Battle dudes. Battle toads. Uh—any sort of battles!

elliott

Yeah.

stuart

Battle bots!

dan

Uh-huh.

stuart

Um, okay! So, uh, meanwhile we cut to Junior. This young assassin that looks exactly like Henry, but a younger version! And he is recuperating in this palatial manor house. And it’s the house of Clay Verris! Oh no! He’s like… uh, they have this like weird father-son dynamic which I wrote down but is wrong, because they’re actually father-son in this case. Adopted son, obviously. Um, but Junior can tell that there’s something different or wrong about this job. Uh, Clay treats him both as a son but he’s also like… an emotionally abusive father in this case. He’s, uh, he’s—he’s made—he makes Junior—obviously he’s making his son kill people. So that’s not good. [Dan laughs.]

elliott

It’s like if Varsity Blues—instead of James Van Der Beek being forced to play high school football, he’s being forced to murder people. All over the globe.

crosstalk

Stuart: Thank you. Dan: Yeah. [Laughs.]

stuart

That’s what I was reaching for, Elliott. Thank you. [Multiple people laugh.]

dan

You know, also, like, I think it’s because I watch too many movies? Like, this is one of those things that if you’re like a viewer of a movie? Like you’re like, ugh, why don’t people realize this thing already? But in real life you wouldn’t realize that you’re a clone immediately? But at the same time… [Elliott laughs.] Like, Henry, Junior, uh, seems very—like, it takes him a long time to be like, hey, I look exactly like a young Will Smith! [Laughs.]

crosstalk

Elliott: Well, the scene— Stuart: I’ve been watching, uh—

stuart

I’ve been watching a couple episodes of the new Twilight Zone and I like it, but it feels like every single episode the character figures out what’s going on, like, three or four scenes too slow for me? And I’m like—no, dude. This is happening. Come on. [Elliott laughs.] Come on! You made a deal with the Devil.

elliott

I mean, I thought it was especially strange that it happened while he was channel surfing and Hancock happened to be playing on FX? [Dan laughs.] And he was like, oh, I look like Hancock! And Clay Verris is like, no, no, Hancock’s not a real person.

jordan

I could almost excuse, uh, Junior not recognizing that he looks just like the older Henry, but I can’t excuse Henry not recognizing his own younger face. Like, if I saw someone— [Multiple people laugh.] —who was—that was me at the age of 20, I would be like—that’s me! Obviously someone has cloned me! ‘Cause I remember what I looked like.

elliott

Yeah. But he’s— [Stuart laughs.] —he’s, uh—he—y’know. He has that face blindness thing? That, uh, Oliver Sacks writes about? So he actually thinks Junior is a hat.

dan

Oh no!

stuart

Seems like—seems like a terrible quality for an assassin! [Laughs.] [Dan laughs.]

elliott

Yeah, yeah. That’s why—those 72 people, that was 2 missions. [Multiple people laugh.] Uh, so, uh, the weird thing is that we also learn—uh, so we learn that Junior is a clone but we also learn that he’s called Junior because he was gestated inside the body of Arnold Schwarzenegger. Movie crossover! [Multiple people laugh.]

stuart

Oh, man. That isn’t that weird.

elliott

Check the dates, dude! Check the dates. They check out.

stuart

So this is where we—we really get a… a good look at… the digital effects of… the young Will Smith. And what do you guys think? I actually—I thought that they were pretty good. And like, I—I really like the—the emotion that they—they are able to get out of, like, the young Will Smith face.

elliott

You guys know me. I’m usually pretty tough on CGI humans that are supposed to look real? I thought—in the scenes where he’s not with Will Smith? It was really convincing to me? But for some reason every time he was with Will Smith I would be like, oh, wait a minute. It looks like he’s talking to a cartoon character version of himself.

dan

I thought he looked weird in, like… the first scenes? Then I think I just got used to it. But I will say, like, I liked the movie’s first hour because it was so sun-drenched? And then the second hour, things got… really… dark? All the time? Like, they’re always doing stuff at night and I think it was because they had computer-generated Will Smith talking to real Will Smith all the time and it was like, uhh, we gotta—put—put this in the dark [through laughter] or else people are gonna be, like, this looks weird.

jordan

I think maybe I’ve been watch—well I’ve been watching a lot of, uh… reruns of The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air recently? So I wasn’t convinced—there were certain scenes where the young—where Junior—looks convincing to me? There are other scenes—specifically the last—the final scene? Where it just looks like a cutscene.

elliott

Definitely as the—that last scene where they’re like—like—the, like, wrap-up scene of the three of them? He looks terrible.

stuart

Yeah. It’s—that’s—that’s arguably the worst movie—uh, worst scene in the whole movie. So! Uh, yeah. Let me see where we’re at. Okay! Uh, we get a shot of a, like, a Gemini… training facility? Uh, where we see this like team of armored black ops dudes blowing stuff up in like a—like, a training course. And Junior is watching it the whole time and kind of analyzing it. Uh, and… uh, of course we’re gonna see that black ops team later. They’re gonna show up.

crosstalk

Stuart: You don’t introduce ‘em and waste time on ‘em. Elliott: This—

elliott

This was when I started asking the question that you really shouldn’t ask with this? Which is like—what’s the economics of Gemini? [Dan laughs.] ‘Cause they seem to spend so much money—they have a whole fake town! With actors playing townspeople! So that they can train like six dudes! And they put all this money into cloning one—possibly two—Will Smiths, as we’ll learn later—like, how much are they charging the government on these—for their missions? ‘Cause they seem to spend a lot of it on facilities, uh, R&D, and that—y’know—Clay Verris’s house looks pretty sweet. I’m sure he’s raking in a pretty nice salary.

dan

Yeah. Well the other thing about this, too, is like—you start asking the question, y’know, I don’t think it will surprise anyone to learn that… uh, Clive Owen does not make it out of this movie alive. As the villain. All villains must be kill in films.

elliott

Even though his name has “live” in it.

dan

Yeah. But uh— [Stuart laughs.]

crosstalk

Elliott: C-Live Owen. Dan: He dies and then like— Stuart: Mm-hm. Yeah. Correct. Yup.

stuart

Uh, it’s—it counts.

dan

He dies and then like, uh, y’know… basically the—all the loose—it’s one of those things where like, oh, we’ve killed the villains. All the loose ends are tied off because I guess, like… the idea’s supposed to be that he was a loose cannon within the government and they just like are cutting—cutting ties the same way? And it’s just like… they like—the government was clearly putting [through laughter] a lot of money into cloning someone! Like, I don’t—I don’t think that just because they killed the one guy this would stop being a problem. I don’t know.

elliott

Well, well they—Gemini was putting money into cloning people. ‘Cause Gemini’s a private organization. And that’s why—

dan

Oh, okay.

elliott

I wonder if there was—I wanna see the scene where he’s on the phone with his unicorn investors? [Dan laughs.] And they’re like, when is Gemini gonna start showing a profit? And he’s like, the future of assassination isn’t about profit, man! It’s about market dominance! [Multiple people laugh.] We’re disrupting how people are killed!

stuart

Yeah. There was a—there was a scene in the movie that was cut where Clay Verris went on the Joe Rogan show. [Multiple people laugh.]

jordan

Oh, boy.

dan

He’s like—he’s like, it’s a volume business! As soon as we have enough Will Smiths on the street, we’ll start making money! [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs. Stuart joins in.]

elliott

We’re looking at the numbers and that doesn’t really make sense. Hey, I just need another $500 million and maybe someday!

stuart

Okay. So yeah. What—uh—what you guys are saying is that, uh, the government isn’t evil—this one rogue company is evil. Okay. Cool.

elliott

Well, I mean—certainly, parts of the government are very evil, too. But the rogue company can also be evil.

stuart

Okay, okay, okay. Um, so… uh… wait. I lost my notes. Okay. So—meanwhile, in Budapest, Danny goes to get a DNA test of some blood and, uh… and some stuff from Will Smith. Uh—

crosstalk

Elliott: Including a hat. Including a hat. Stuart: AKA, Henry. Yep.

stuart

And so he—she goes to get a DNA test and guys? Guess what? Turns out… they’re 100% each other. [All laugh.] Get it? Get it? Okay. Uh—so yeah. Turns out—like, so, uh, Danny reveals that not only is their DNA similar, it is exactly identical. That Junior is Henry’s clone. And Henry thinks about it and then he’s like, okay. [Laughs.]

elliott

Well I also like that—that—once I—I have so assume once he was like—they’re like, they cloned you! He’s like, ohhhh! Now the company name makes sense! Gemini! [Dan laughs.] ‘Cause there’s nothing particularly Gemini about, like, having a private soldier organization, but if they’re making twins then the name makes sense! And he calls up Clive Owen and he’s like, is this why you chose the name Gemini? ‘Cause you were gonna clone someone at some point? And Clive is like—it’s just a happy coincidence, man. [Dan laughs.] My first wife was a Gemini. She wanted me to name the company after her so I named it after her star sign.

stuart

Yep. He’s like, this company has big Gemini energy. [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

He’s really into crystals? [Laughs.] [Dan laughs.]

crosstalk

Jordan: He’s like— Elliott: I would love—now—

jordan

You know how into astrology I am! [Sighs exasperatedly] You’re such a Taurus. [Multiple people laugh.] Only a Taurus would say that.

elliott

That would—that’s a character thing I would’ve loved. Is if it turned out that Clive Owen’s character was really into astrology and was always, like, doing Junior’s star charts? And he’s like, I don’t know if it works the same as you ‘cause you weren’t born! You were cloned and we grew you in a vat! But—

crosstalk

Elliott: Maybe it’s the same. Stuart: If you want that kind of—

stuart

If you want that kind of character work you hire Nicolas fucking Cage to do your movie.

elliott

Oh, yeah. Yeah. He would’ve done star charts for everybody on set. He’d be carrying crystals around. Sure. Yeah.

stuart

Okay. So… uh—

crosstalk

Elliott: How—how—wait. Stuart: Where are we at?

elliott

How likely—so he’s supposed to play the Tiger King in that Tiger King TV show? How likely do you think it is that he buys a real tiger to keep in his house? To prepare?

stuart

And we’re assuming he doesn’t already own a tiger. [Dan laughs.]

elliott

That’s a fair—right. I should not have made that assumption. [Laughs.] [Stuart laughs.] Because what do you keep a tiger in? A cage.

dan

Ohhh. Okay. [Stuart exhales slowly.]

elliott

Yeah. Nicolas Cage.

stuart

Uh, so Jordan, you’re—you’re editing all this out, right? [Laughs.] [Dan laughs.] You’re just editing it on the fly.

jordan

Now, is this the same scene where—where Danny has the line, “Nelson Mandela couldn’t kill a man on a moving train from [through laughter] two kilometers away?” [Laughs.]

elliott

Yeah. ‘Cause he’s like, why don’t they clone Nelson Mandela?

jordan

I was like, yikes, movie. Why— [Dan laughs.] —leave Nelson Mandela alone! He didn’t—he didn’t—

crosstalk

Elliott: I mean, ‘cause—to— Stuart: Why—why you gotta drag Nelson Mandela like that? [Laughs.]

elliott

And also, how do we know? He never had the chance!

dan

Well, that’s the thing! Like, I—like—the movie lost a step with me with— [Laughs.] By not having Will Smith say something like, we don’t know. [Laughs.] He could’ve been taught. [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

Well here’s—now here’s something about, uh, now—as we’ll—I—this is getting a little ahead of us, but as we later learn, uh, Junior also has, uh, Henry’s conscience. Which—again—as we know, his conscience only kicked in after 72 kills and 30 years on the job. But! Uh, something I learned recently—talking to a celebrity dog groomer—was that when you clone an animal, they look exactly the same but they do not have the same personality. Because they are raised differently. So here’s my pitch for you guys about this movie—what if it was the same movie, but the young Henry was totally—totally amoral, loved being an assassin, was so eager to get old Henry out of the way ‘cause he doesn’t want this old man clogging up his face? And he could just be—would that be a better movie or a worse movie? Discussion.

dan

Well, I mean, like, the movie keeps trying to claim, like, Clive Owen’s like, we edited out all of your, like… doubt. And conscience. And I’m like, I don’t think so. Like, he seems to be basically the same dude.

jordan

If he could edit that stuff out, how come they couldn’t edit out Junior being allergic to bees? [Dan laughs.]

elliott

That’s a very good point. And it’s something that is brought up multiple times for minimal plot development. And you’d think that would be the first thing they’re like—they’re like, we gotta send Junior on a mission to Macedonia. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait—it’s not near those beehives right? Uh, it is. Okay. Forget it. [Stuart laughs.] Send somebody else.

dan

He’s lying down in a field [inaudible] scene. I feel like once he actually does get poisoned. Like, I wish that Will Smith would’ve said—my one weakness—bees!

elliott

Yeah, yeah. [Stuart laughs.] I mean, do you think, uh, do you think colony collapse all over the world and the demise of bees is just Gemini trying to clear the way to make it so that Junior— [Dan laughs.] —can operate anywhere on the globe?

crosstalk

Stuart: Yeah. Murder— Dan: [Through laughter] They’re like, it’ll be easier!

stuart

Murder hornets are their latest, uh, latest weapon.

elliott

Yeah. Yeah.

stuart

In the fight against bees. [Dan laughs.] So, uh… so Henry—Henry meets with Yuri, uh, his friend’s contact. Uh, in a bathhouse, of course, ‘cause he’s Russian. Um, and he gives, uh, he gives another info-dump. I think it kind of explains all the basics. Uh, that Gemini has this cloning facility. They’re trying to make clone soldiers. Yadda, yadda, yadda.

elliott

The Russian that he killed in the first scene on the train was actually the scientist who was working on the cloning project.

stuart

Exactly. Um, and that—and that, uh, that Verris took him out I guess so that they couldn’t share that information. I don’t quite remember. There’s a lot of information but it’s all exactly what you’d expect. Uh, the only kind of surprise that Yuri reveals that he’s a big fan of Henry’s and that he has been watching some of his shootouts. How did this happen? Doesn’t matter. It doesn’t. He has a, uh, he has a guy—a delivery guy—

crosstalk

Elliott: A bike messenger. Stuart: —show up with a phone.

stuart

A bike messenger. Thank you. And he has paid this bike messenger to deliver a phone to her, uh, and they call and have a phone conversation—

dan

Sorry. Before that, the bike messenger reads, uh, a long message about, like, hey, uh, y’know, like, you tried to kill me. I’m gonna kill you. I know where you live. I know your— [through laughter] like, where—where you go to get your coffee. And the bike messenger seems totally cool with delivering this message. [Jordan laughs.]

crosstalk

Stuart: Hey, man, it’s a gig economy! Elliott: He got paid $1,000!

elliott

Of course he’ll deliver—he probably thinks it’s some prank. He’s like, where’s Ashton? In a van somewhere. [Multiple people laugh.] Where are the Impractical Jokers?

crosstalk

Elliott: I’m just delivering this message. Dan: So wait. This guy also—

dan

Just, like, wake up from a really, really long sleep?

elliott

Dan, it’s a 20-year-old screenplay. That was—Punk’d was still on the air back then!

dan

Okay. [Through laughter] So this thing that’s not in the movie—

crosstalk

Dan: Because that screenplay’s so old. It makes sense. Okay. Stuart: I guess—yeah. Elliott: Exactly! Yes! Thank you!

elliott

That’s why everyone in the movie is talking about how great The Matrix was! [Dan laughs.]

dan

Okay.

stuart

So, I—yeah. I did this scene a disservice. It—it has some humor in it. But—so he basically bargains with his old boss, uh, for Danny’s life. Um, and he sets up an exchange where he will turn her over but he’ll only turn her over to the killer who had been sent to kill him, Junior. Uh, and they set up a meet in a castle in Budapest.

elliott

What’s—they’re like—they’re like catacombs. They’re, uh… they’re like grave catacombs.

stuart

Yeah. It’s just like—it’s like a castle. It’s like a tourist attraction. Uh, this is where Junior makes, uh, to check Danny for bugs ‘cause he’s nervous that, uh, y’know. He’s—he’s just being cautious. He makes her strip in a both exploitative but restrained scene. Uh, and he checks her for, uh, like, a—he checks her for bugs and she, the whole time, is like… trying to get to know him. She’s asking him a bunch of questions. She’s talking quite a bit. She’s explaining what’s happening. She’s trying to work on his emotions. Uh, he takes her to these catacombs, uh, and he sets up a whole bunch of traps. But Henry, of course, gets through these, uh, he gets through all the traps that have been set up because the whole time Danny had been messaging Henry through a hidden bug. Uh, and we have a—finally, we have, uh, old Henry and Junior—the younger version of him—uh, the have a faceoff and they, uh, they start, y’know, they have—they have Junior dead to rights and they lay out the situation to him, but he is not buying it.

elliott

Okay. Now technically it’s not a faceoff ‘cause they both have the same face on.

stuart

Oh, okay. So, uh, rewind the tape, guys—so it’s a face-on— [Multiple people laugh.] —and— [Laughs.]

dan

It’s a head-on, applied directly to the forehead, situation.

elliott

Oh, wow. I haven’t thought about that in a long time. Those ads. So—Jordan, is this what you wanted to see from a Will Smith movie? Is a younger Will Smith hitting him—an older himself in the face with a bone that he grabbed out of a wall? [Multiple people laugh.]

jordan

I actually did wanna see more of this in the movie. This was the only—like, one of the only times where the movie was kind of not taking itself too seriously? And it was just kind of silly? And—and I was having a good time. So yeah. I wanted more of this. I mean, the—the—again. The—Junior doesn’t look real to me in any way? It would be if—if Will Smith was fighting, y’know, the younger Robert De Niro from The Irishman it would’ve been, y’know— [Multiple people laugh.] —equally…

stuart

Mm-hm. Or if like—or if like, uh, like one of the digital characters from one of Disney’s new live-action remakes was battling the animated version.

jordan

Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, if they could get Will Smith and then his Aladdin character to fight? [Stuart laughs.]

dan

Now, I—I will say, uh—y’know, like… Henry gets the best of Junior like… in basically every situation? And I guess the movie plays it off like, okay, it’s because like… he’s cagier most of the time? Like—like, uh, living so long has—

elliott

Well he’s more experienced!

dan

—given him more experience? But in—in like these fights, I think also you can—you see that they have made the younger version of Will Smith, like, smaller? Like, uh, he’s not as jacked as 50-year-old Will Smith? And I think that is to be like—to give a—a way that 50-year-old Will Smith could possibly win a fight [through laughter] with a much younger version of himself.

elliott

It’s possible. I mean, I was watching the behind-the-scenes stuff and the person they had doing the motion-capture fighting was actually Eddie Deezen. So it makes a lot of sense— [Stuart laughs.] —why Will Smith had no trouble defeating him.

dan

Yeah.

elliott

Just not a fair match-up.

jordan

‘Cause sometimes Junior is, like, a little baby Terminator and then other times they’re—they’re equally matched and other times, y’know, Henry is able to get the—the drop on him. So.

dan

Yeah.

elliott

Yeah.

stuart

And I feel like—I mean, uh, fast-forward to the very end of the movie, there’s a scene where the two of them were walking next to each other and it feels like Junior is like a head taller than him. [Laughs.] [Dan laughs.]

elliott

Yeah. Spinal compression. As he aged. Yeah.

stuart

Maybe he’s wearing lifts. Who knows. Um, okay, so—

elliott

But you’re right—you’re right, Jordan. There’s like no—it would be a stronger movie if it was like, oh, I can’t beat myself at my physical peak so I’ll have to outthink him. But there’s only a little bit of that. It’s usually, like, I’m gonna out-punch him.

dan

[Through laughter] Yeah.

elliott

Like, and the two of them can take so many hits to the face. It’s crazy. And especially without wrecking those beautiful faces!

stuart

I mean, I think they do a pretty good job of having the makeup reflect that they have taken some kind of damage. Uh—some.

elliott

A little bit. Some. Like, the—as much damage as I would get from like falling and smashing my face in the ground? [Laughs.]

crosstalk

Dan: Again, this guy got whacked with a motorcycle. Stuart: Yeah. That’s fair. Elliott: It’s—they’re— [Multiple people laugh.]

stuart

He just got a little road rash. Um, okay. So. Uh, they—so as we said, they have a fight. Uh, the… Danny manages to get ahold of the gun but Henry’s holding back. He doesn’t want, uh, he doesn’t want Junior to get shot. Uh, they’re battling. They end up in the water, which is—as we’ve learned earlier—Henry’s biggest weakness. He’s frightened of drowning. Uh, Danny comes down and shoots Junior in the shoulder to rescue Henry, and Junior escapes. Uh, they flee the catacombs, uh, Baron picks up Henry and Danny. And they take that private jet back to the US of A to shut down the cloning project. Meanwhile, Junior’s also back in the US of A, and he confronts his father, Clay Verris, about the whole situation. Uh… and I think this is where—this is—Verris gives him another one of those, like, abusive dad talks? Right? Where he’s like, convincing him that he’s doing the right thing, etcetera, etcetera.

dan

I mean, this is—I don’t wanna give it too much credit? But this is a slight stab at a more interesting villain because like… he’s a bad man. I mean, we could all agree he’s a bad man. But he does—

elliott

Mmm! I don’t know. I don’t know, Dan. Name one thing that he does that’s bad! [Stuart laughs.]

dan

He does believe that he loves his son in his own way and he’s trying to protect him throughout the movie. Even as he’s trying to kill… the man he [through laughter] cloned him from.

stuart

Although the—the justification of like, sending his—his son to kill his older clone… to like… battle his demons? Seems—

dan

No, it’s all— [Laughs.]

stuart

Seems—that’s a reach.

dan

It’s nutty.

elliott

[Laughs.] Yeah. I think that’s how psychiatrists would describe it. “Nutty.”

jordan

He’s kind of like Thanos for me, where—he’s explaining his motive behind, y’know, his evil plot and I’m kind of—I’m almost, like, ehhh, this guy’s got some great ideas! Does that make me a bad person? [Multiple people laugh.]

stuart

Yeah. You’re like—maybe we should—maybe we should workshop this a little bit. Let’s get a little more diversity in your writing room, Thanos. [All laugh.]

elliott

Well, and later on, Clay is talking to these guys—the other guys—the heroes, and he’s like—I was gonna have a whole army of just clones. No parents would ever lose their children again. No real people would die. And Junior is like standing right there? And it’s like, uhhh… like— [Stuart laughs.] So, uh, like… am I—hold on a second.

jordan

No, no, no. You’re one of the good ones. You’re one of the good ones. [Stuart laughs.]

elliott

No, no, Junior! You’re—you’re like a person clone. You’re totally cool. But these other clones… [Dan laughs.] So he’s a bad dude.

stuart

So—so Henry, Danny, and Baron, uh… y’know, they touch down, uh, Baron gives his private jet a kiss. It has served them well this entire movie. Um, they’re running through a barn where they get ambushed by Junior and Junior tests Henry by shooting him in the neck with bee venom, just to prove that he is allergic to bees. ‘Cause that’s the only way to prove that they are clones. [Dan laughs.]

elliott

Mm-hm. And by giving him the antidote, he proves that he’s not there to murder Henry. I guess.

crosstalk

Stuart: Yeahhh. And they— Elliott: I guess neither of those tests—

elliott

—really prove the thing that they intend to prove? Since—it’s not like Will Smith is uniquely allergic to bees among all the humans in the world?

stuart

Yeah. Yeah. That’s—that was kind of—

jordan

He gives him an EpiPen and then he goes—epinephrine! Like, it—dude, I know! I’m allergic to bees. I know what an EpiPen looks like. [Multiple people laugh.]

stuart

He’s like, I—I know. I’m allergic to bees. I travel around the world and I kill things. Uh, you would think I would have a couple of these on me at all times. But I guess not.

dan

[Dan laughs.] That was what I was thinking! Like, wait—why doesn’t older Will Smith have one of these? [Laughs.] [Jordan laughs.]

elliott

That—I—now I wish I had seen a scene where, uh, Junior is like—it’s epinephrine. Let me use it. And Will Smith’s like, I know how to do it! Just let me do it! And they’re just arguing over which one of them is gonna give the shot? No, let me do it! You need me to do this! I can do it! I’ve done this before! I’m older than you! Oh. That would’ve been great.

stuart

So this is where we find out how they’ve been tracked. Uh, Junior, uh, cuts out a tracker that’s been embedded in Henry’s arm. I guess it had been embedded in him during a previous surgery. Uh… then they are driving to go take out the clone facility. Uh, they catch up. They—y’know, they talk some stuff. And then, uh… but then they get ambushed by, uh, in a small town that looks surprisingly—uh, I guess not that surprisingly—a lot like that model village we saw the, uh, black ops guys training in earlier. Uh, so they get ambushed and a tank shoots their car, killing Benedict Wong’s character, Baron. Everybody’s super sad. Everybody else gets out.

elliott

And now—when I watched this movie earlier in the week, a military-style police response to a few people walking down a street seemed crazier. Than it does now. So… uh… I’m glad I watched it a week ago when I was like, well this is nuts. Anyway! Moving on. [Jordan laughs.]

stuart

Yeah. It wasn’t quite the fun escape I was hoping for at that moment. [Elliott laughs.] Uh, so yeah. So the, uh… we find out that Verris is onsite. He, y’know, he diverts police away. He’s having his own team try and take out these guys. Clean up this mess. Uh, I keep using that term ‘cause that’s what they say in action movies. Um, okay. And, uh—of course—

elliott

They secure the perimeter and so forth. Yeah.

stuart

Yup. At this point—at this point Junior runs away from Henry and Danny. Uh, I—I can’t quite—and he goes to confront his father. I can’t quite tell… did he intend to lead them into that ambush?

dan

No.

crosstalk

Elliott: I don’t think so. No, no. At this— Stuart: Was he still working for his dad at this point?

elliott

Well, maybe—maybe he’s worried they think that? I was on—I was understanding it as—Clay has now ambushed all of them because he doesn’t trust Junior anymore to get the job done? Because—and here’s the—they—then—‘cause then Clay is really ready to argue with Junior. When Junior shows up Clay isn’t like, great job, buddy! Thanks—thanks, sonny boy! You did it! You led him into the ambush! He’s like, what are you doing? And, uh—

dan

Well, Clay also tells Junior to run. Like, when they’re in the car. He—he calls Junior up and he’s like—hey, get out of there. Like…yeah.

elliott

That’s true. And—and this is the scene—when—now he—he starts arguing with Clay and they have a fight and Junior—the super-assassin, who is so skilled that he had to be a clone— [Dan laughs.] —of the greatest assassin in the world, gets his ass handed to him handily by Clive Owen, a man who is older than Will Smith, I think! [Multiple people laugh.] And this is the scene where I was like, uh, why didn’t they just clone Clive Owen? If that was— [Laughs.] [Stuart laughs.]

stuart

I—I kind of thought that was what was gonna come, uh, later on. But it didn’t happen. Um, okay. So meanwhile—

crosstalk

Stuart: Henry and Danny get some guns. They start— Elliott: Oh, and he goes—he goes—my name’s now Clive Owen.

elliott

It’s Clive Oh-one. And then Clive Oh-Two and Clive Oh-Three and Clive Oh-Four.

stuart

Stuart: Oh, shiiiit! Elliott: An army of Clive clones comes out!

stuart

It’s a real The Sixth Day. [Laughs.]

elliott

And it’s all—and he’s—it’s Clive Owen from all his movies. Croupier. Children of Men. Uh, what was that one he did with like Julia Roberts?

stuart

Shoot ‘Em Up.

elliott

Shoot ‘Em Up. Yeah.

crosstalk

Elliott: Did he do a movie with Julia Roberts? What movie am I thinking of? No, not Shoot ‘Em Up. That’s Monica Bellucci. Dan: Wait. Julia Roberts [through laughter] isn’t in Shoot ‘em Up. What are you talking about? [Laughs.] Stuart: That wasn’t Julia Roberts?!

elliott

No, that’s not the one he was talking about.

jordan

Is that the movie where he plays—

crosstalk

Jordan: —Bugs Bunny? Dan: Oh, Closer.

elliott

Oh. Closer. That’s the one I was thinking of. Yeah. It’s him from Closer. [Laughs.]

stuart

What was that, Jordan? You were wondering if Shoot ‘Em Up was the movie he’s a killer who chomps on a carrot the whole time? [Dan laughs.]

elliott

That’s the one where—when—every time he takes a bite out of a carrot, his eyesight instantly gets a little better? [Multiple people laugh.] Oh. I love that movie. [Through laughter] It’s so stupid. In a smart way.

stuart

What a movie! Yeah. Uh—

elliott

That’s the movie where he shoots the umbilical cord off a baby that he’s just delivered? [Dan laughs.]

stuart

Yep. Yep. So, uh, Henry and Danny start taking out this kill team quite efficiently. I don’t know why they’ve been training so much ‘cause they just keep getting smoked. Um, Junior fights Verris. Danny gest shot and they, uh… they end up getting—like, holing up in… like, some kind of like a machine shop or something?

crosstalk

Stuart: To, uh— Elliott: It’s like—it’s like a—

elliott

—hardware and things you would use to stop assassins store.

stuart

Yeah. So it’s—it’s like, uh, they prepare to make a last stand. They only have one bullet left. Uh, a couple guys run in and Henry manages to kill both of them with the same bullet? Because he’s just that good, as we’ve already addressed. Uh, looks like things are curtains for them, but of course—Junior shows up. He kills the remaining black ops guys. He rescues them. Hooray.

crosstalk

Stuart: Cut back to the roof. Elliott: Well this is after—

elliott

Well this is after—Will Smith has given Mary Elizabeth Winstead and himself axes. ‘Cause they don’t have guns anymore. And I was like… okay. I’m ready for this scene. [Dan laughs.] Where they’re—but it didn’t happen. They don’t actually fight with axes.

stuart

So… cut to the rooftop. Clay Verris has realized that his—his plan is in ruins and he has to initiate his final—his—his plan B. When he, uh, he brings in a secret, bulletproof ninja— [Dan laughs.] Who, uh— [Elliott laughs.] Who, like… like, runs around the building.

crosstalk

Stuart: Uh, parkour style. Elliott: And wears a— Dan: Yeah.

elliott

—a full face-mask helmet.

crosstalk

Dan: Yes. He’s like a—he’s a real Daft Punk, if like Daft Punk was a—yeah. Elliott: So you can’t see his identity. Stuart: It’s like a—

stuart

Or like Snake Eyes, who’s a ninja. Uh—

elliott

No, no. But if Daft Punk was a ninja that’s what [through laughter] he would be like.

crosstalk

Stuart: Okay. Cool. I guess you get partial credit. Elliott: If Daft Punk—instead of being—

elliott

Instead of being two older French guys.

jordan

I wrote down “Scuba Ninjas” ‘cause that’s what they—that’s what it looked like to me. [Stuart laughs.]

elliott

Scuba ninja. Yeah. Yeah.

stuart

But instead of jumping—uh, taking a splash into the water, he splashes into our heroes’ blood as he kicks and punches them. Uh, and they keep shooting him, but the bullets just keep bouncing off. And this, uh, y’know, this one, uh… this one bulletproof assassin is beating up all three of our heroes. It’s crazy.

crosstalk

Elliott: Now here’s—we— Stuart: And he—

stuart

He seems unstoppable. They’re, like, blasting him with shotguns. They throw explosions at him. It’s all kinds of stuff.

elliott

And this is—we learn that he is a—he cannot feel pain. But he’s being shot in the head. Like, even if it’s not hurting him like—it’s gonna—

crosstalk

Elliott: Like, it’s causing brain trauma! Like, that he keeps getting up—I don’t know. Dan: Well—it is—it is unclear—

dan

—the degree to which, like… uh… it’s the armor that he’s wearing and—versus, like, his painlessness. What—

elliott

There is no helmet you can wear that is so strong that if you get shot multiple times in the head it’s not gonna, like, make it harder for you to get up and keep—

crosstalk

Elliott: —keep kung-fu fighting? Dan: I mean, this is a special clone helmet, Elliott! [Laughs.] We’re through the looking glass here! [Laughs.] Elliott: That’s true! They cloned the helmet!

elliott

They cloned a regular helmet— [Dan laughs.] —and they removed the parts of the helmet that break. [Laughs.] [Dan laughs.]

stuart

They—they cloned—they cloned the best helmet in the world, Elliott. [Laughs.]

elliott

They—all the—every part of him is the best—they found the best pants in the world? [Dan laughs.] And they cloned them. They found the best boots in the world and cloned those?

stuart

Oh man. It’s—it’s Serpentor all over again. So—

elliott

You can’t see, but he’s wearing—underneath the shirt, he’s wearing the best puka shell necklace on a little piece of rope in the world. Yeah. [Jordan laughs.]

stuart

After—after much battling and blasting— [Elliott laughs.] —the—the bulletproof assassin collapses. They have defeated him. They go up and remove his helmet and it’s another young Will Smith under there. And I gotta say—I mean, even though it wasn’t that big of a surprise it was kinda rough! Like, I found this to be kinda affecting to see—to have this feeling of, like, endless… like… young… black faces on, like, dead soldiers. Like it was pretty rough right then.

elliott

It was rough. And it—but it was also one of those things, like, I found—I also felt that way at first. And then I was like, why didn’t they send him in the first place?

stuart

Yeah.

elliott

Why are they wasting time with Junior? Like—

dan

No, he’s better.

stuart

And like, he can’t even—at this point he can’t even—like this—like, it’s not addressed whether or not he can’t—the—the—the super-assassin is dying and can’t talk? Or if like… he—like—the ability to talk had been cloned out of him! Like, it’s this horrible [through laughter] moment.

elliott

It’s—it’s a—and that’s when Clay comes out and he’s like, oh, we were gonna have an army of Henry clones and it was gonna be great for everybody. Not the clones, but c’mon! They’re clones, right? Who cares, right, Junior? Uh, I mean, uh, Junior—I didn’t realize you were here! Ho boy! And, uh, this is when, uh, Junior has a—has a moral choice to make. Guys. And it’s a moral choice that—after Stuart explains it—I’m gonna go into why I’ve started hating— [Dan laughs.] —this part of the past few movies I’ve seen it in. [Jordan laughs.] Stuart, do you know which one I’m talking about?

stuart

Are you—I mean—I—I don’t know—so… Junior has his—his—uh—his super shotgun placed at his father’s face. And he’s like, I’m gonna kill ya. And Henry—Henry steps up and he’s like, no, you won’t be able to live with the guilt. That’s a choice you—you shouldn’t have to make, killing your own father. You won’t be able to come back from that. You’ll be irrevocably changed. So he takes the gun away and then he blasts him himself.

elliott

And this is the thing I’ve seen in a bunch of movies. This made me think of Rise of Skywalker the most. Where the hero has blown away endless cannon fodder. People who oftentimes were just maybe ex—in the world of Gemini Man, they’re ex-military who now work for this evil company. Or they’re, y’know, police officers who got kicked off the force or something and now they work for this horrible thing. And after killing swaths of those they get to the one guy who’s responsible for all of it and they’re like, no. Don’t kill him. It would be wrong to. The same way how in Rise of Skywalker—how many people has Rey killed in those movies by this point? And she gets to the Emperor and he’s like—heh heh, if you kill me, everything will go even worse! And she’s like, I can’t do it. I can’t give into hate and kill the Emperor! Even though she’s killed hundreds of people in cold blood. And the Emperor—Empire is—Emperor’s murdering thousands of people at the same time. Like, this idea that once you get to the person in power… it becomes a moral choice of whether to kill them or not and it’s the high road to not kill them.

crosstalk

Dan: Whoa, whoa—hold— Elliott: That it’s better to kill—

elliott

It’s better to kill an army of nobodies than to kill the one somebody who’s responsible for it is not a thing that I—that I like. Y’know.

dan

Hold up, Elliott, though. Like—

crosstalk

Elliott: Okay! Dan: This is not an exact—

dan

—analogue because the reason—specifically, here—is that he’s shooting his surrogate father. Now the part I find weird is the way—where Henry’s like, hey. If you kill your dad, you’re not coming back. And then he like shoots the kid’s dad right in front of him. [Laughs.]

elliott

Right in front of him. I mean, if I was Henry I’d be like, this will give you the closure that you need— [Dan laughs.] —to get out of this relationship with this dude. Like— [Multiple people laugh.] Like—

stuart

Yeah. This is the Angela Bassett blowing up the car. [Jordan laughs.]

elliott

[Through laughter] Right. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Uh, it—Freud tells us that we wanna kill our fathers and finally he has the chance to do it. It’s just—I—it’s, uh, the idea that—it’s more the idea that like… hey. You’re never gonna be able to live with yourself if you kill this guy. But I killed a lot of people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but this guy is a movie star. So let me do it instead. Or maybe there was something in Will Smith’s contract where it was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but the real me gets to kill the bad guy. Not the clone me. And Ang Lee was like, but Will, you play both characters. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but the real me gets to kill him, right? Not the clone? But Will, you’re both of them. They’re both Will. The same way—there’s an old story about, um, I think Joey Bishop? That there’s—on The Joey Bishop Show there was a character who was like his cousin that he also played? And he would get mad because the cousin had more funny lines than he did and they’d be like, Joey, you’re playing both characters! Like, why do you matter if the jokes come from Joey Bishop or Joey Bishop’s cousin? That’s what it feels like to me.

dan

I do think that the moral issue that comes to play here actually, for me, Elliott, is sort of the… a different one, which is like in these movies… they should get to the bad guy and not kill him because they’re like—they’ve killed everyone else in self-defense. Now they have this man dead to rights. Like, they—like, apparently he’s operating, like, way off the reservation at this point based on the way the movie wraps up. Uh, y’know, so… in—like, if the movie’s, like, oh, I’m so tired of killing… take the fucking guy in [through laughter] and have him arrested! Like… it’s so weird—

elliott

I think maybe seven years ago? I might’ve felt the same way? But now I’m like, no. The world would be better without Clive Owen in it. And I mean that about the actor Clive Owen, too! Guys? [Multiple people laugh.]

stuart

[Through laughter] Whoa!

elliott

No, I’m just kidding. I love Clive Owen the actor. He’s great. Shoot ‘Em Up. I love it. But that—I—at this point—do you really believe that that guy’s gonna get taken in and go to jail? Look at Erik Prince! He’s still out there and he’s the same character!

dan

I—okay. Uh… I—I… [sighs.] I just think that the whole point of the movie, like, the moral, like, point of it—if there is one—has been like, I’m tired of killing. So… I—I don’t know. It just seems weird that like they’ve got him captured—every—I guess I’m angry more that every action movie has to end with killing being the solution to all of the problems in the movie.

elliott

Yeah. Then I think maybe Gemini Man’s maybe not the movie for you.

dan

Yeah.

stuart

Yeah. So they, uh… so Clive Owen’s character is dead. We now cut to a college campus—there’s probably some other bullshit. But we cut to a college campus. Where—

elliott

Henry—Henry meets up with his old boss and his old boss was like, all the bad guys are gone! It’s nothing but good guys now! And Henry’s like, hey, even though you let everybody try to kill me? We’re cool. And that’s the end of that scene.

stuart

So, uh, they’re… Henry, Danny, and Junior are walking around a college campus. Junior is the new, cool freshman. And they—

dan

He’s got a great group of friends that he’s—he’s—he’s—

crosstalk

Stuart: And they walk around and tell some jokes. Elliott: Yep. Just walking around wearing a sweater under a denim jacket.

elliott

I just kept being, like, he must be so hot! [Dan laughs.] A sweater under a denim jacket? And it’s sunny out!

stuart

Yeah. Well, y’know. Uh… so I mean sometimes you make sacrifices for fashion, Elliott. So, uh—

crosstalk

Elliott: I mean, I don’t. But other people do. [Laughs.] Stuart: They’re—y’know, they walk around.

stuart

They like tell jokes and shit and then—

crosstalk

Stuart: —the movie ends. Dan: They make a point—

dan

They make a point of saying, oh, that was the only other clone. [Through laughter] Which I thought was weird. [Stuart laughs. Someone claps.] So like, everything’s wrapped up tight!

stuart

The—this— [Elliott laughs.]

crosstalk

Stuart: I mean, I’m assuming this scene was added late in production. Elliott: It’s like the end—

elliott

Maybe “The end…?” Starts rolling onscreen and Will Smith pushes it off and goes, nope! That’s the end! No unanswered questions! No sequels, please!

dan

I mean, honestly, like, there were parts of this last scene that I thought were affecting in the sense of like, okay, well, now they have this… surrogate family. Like a thing that none of them… seemingly had had before. But it—it goes on… at least three times longer than you think [through laughter] it’s going to.

elliott

It’s a very long scene and at the end it’s fading out as Will Smith is explaining to Junior how he’s still tougher than him even though he’s older and it’s just Will Smith talking. You don’t hear any of the characters— [Dan laughs.] —as it like pulls back. And at a certain point I was like, is he talking to himself? Is he just—was this all in his head and he’s a crazy person wandering around this college campus like talking to his imaginary clone?

stuart

Feels like they’re making all this effort to identify that like, yeah, we get it. You’re clones. You don’t have to tell me again. [Elliott laughs.] It’s the end of the fucking movie! [Elliott laughs.]

jordan

I definitely think they added this scene in later. It looks terrible. [Dan laughs.]

elliott

It feels really rushed. And everything—and it—it feels like it comes out of a different movie? I mean, this is one where I was like—there’s something refreshing about the fact that Junior is just gonna try to live a normal life now? Although—it—he’s going to college and they’re like, here’s your new identity! New passport, new social security card. And I’m like—how did he get into college without any of that stuff? Like, did he—did he enroll with a college as “Junior R. Clone”? [Dan laughs.] Like, what— [Laughs.] I don’t understand!

jordan

Yeah. ‘Cause this scene is supposed to take place six months after everything else happened. So what have they been doing the past six months?

elliott

Yeah. I mean, probably teaching about all the pop culture that he never got to see? ‘Cause Clive Owen wouldn’t let him? So like they watched all the—all the Marvel movies.

jordan

He’s like, this is a movie called Bad Boys II. [Laughs.] [Multiple people laugh.]

stuart

Oh, wow!

dan

Now there’s some stuff in it that’s not great. They do drive through a shantytown— [Jordan laughs.] —but if you can ignore that… [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

We’re gonna watch all the best movies ever made: Pursuit of Happyness. Concussion. Focus. [Dan laughs.]

dan

Uh… guys, let’s wrap this up. Let’s do Final Judgments. Uh, is this a good-bad movie, a bad-bad movie, a movie you kinda like? Um… I—I’m gonna be honest. Um… I think I know where Jordan is. She seems to have a great distaste for this movie. I gotta say, [through laughter] I kinda liked it! Y’know? Like, the first hour? I thought was pretty solid. Uh, that action sequence was great. The middle part, I was pretty bored by when they were starting to like… getting into the moral implications of everything? And I’m like, this movie’s not well-written enough to make me care about all these [through laughter] characters? Uh, but… then the end was exciting again. Like, as long as this movie’s an action movie? I think it’s fun. Uh, I think Mary Elizabeth Winstead in particular is good. And Benedict Wong’s good. And I think that this movie probably would’ve played better when this script was written, before, like, we’d already seen the Bourne Identity and Looper. Um…

stuart

Yeah.

dan

But that’s what I have to say. What do you guys say?

elliott

Uh, I would—I also was coming down on, uh, kind of liked. For basically the same reasons. Like, there’s a couple really good action sequences in it. I think it is… it’s a pretty dumb plot for a movie? And it, like, almost touches on… interesting things but doesn’t quite go all the way there? But it might just be that my standards are at the usual level for… the movies we watch? That as soon as I started watching it and I was—and I was like—oh, this isn’t as bad as I thought it was gonna be! Oh yeah! Oh, this action sequence is really good! I was like, okay. This is a solid, like… I don’t know. What would you say, like, 2-1/2 star movie? Something like that? Which to me is like—it’s a Saturday. I’m sick. This comes on TNT. Okay. I’m gonna watch it.

dan

Yeah.

jordan

I think it’s a movie I—I kinda like, actually. I, um… it—it’s—

elliott

This whole time, Jordan, I thought you were gonna get really mad at us for saying that I kinda like it!

jordan

I was, too. But then I remembered the end of the movie and how silly—and how much it made me laugh when I saw the final Fresh Prince. [Multiple people laugh.] I—I—it doesn’t—it takes itself too seriously, uh, in certain parts, but I—the action sequences are pretty solid. Uh, I think that… uh… this movie could’ve starred, y’know, any number of people. I think that they wanted Mel Gibson at one point. I could see, like, a Bruce Willis or something like that. Like… I—I’m—I’m fine with it! I kinda like it! Yeah. I like it. Whatever. [Elliott laughs.]

stuart

Yeah. I mean, I think I’m with—I’m with all you guys! It’s, uh, I think the—when the action scenes are moving it’s pretty fun. I… I actually… I had a—I thought Will Smith was pretty fun in this movie! Uh— [Laughs.] I thought Mary Elizabeth Winstead was fun in it. And I thought Clive Owen was like a good, creepy skeleton. Um— [Dan laughs.] And, uh… yeah! I don’t know. Like… uh, and it—I don’t know. Maybe I was—like, it was both, uh, escapist but also it made it— [Laughs.] It made me think about, uh, the world a little bit and made me sad? So… cool! [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.] Uh—

elliott

Now I wonder if we—so—we—I watched this on my computer. So I didn’t see it in the, like, 120-frames-per-second that it was supposed to be projected in? And I—that—I—did you guys see it that way? Or…

dan

Uh—

elliott

Couldn’t tell, or no?

dan

I don’t—I mean, is that something that you—is that something that’s possible on like normal televisions? Like, I—

elliott

I don’t know.

crosstalk

Dan: It looked like a normal movie to me. Elliott: I just don’t know.

dan

And honestly, Elliott, I—I meant to say something about this but I forgot. I wonder whether… like… y’know. It’s not a great movie, but the outsized critical rejection of this movie? I wonder if it was because it was done in that high-frame rate that everyone seems to hate.

stuart

Oh, yeah.

crosstalk

Elliott: Could be. I— Stuart: Well I actually—

stuart

I—I—when I—I watched it last night, but I watched it in Peter Jackson’s screening room in New Zealand? [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.]

dan

Oh, okay.

stuart

It’s Wellington, New Zealand, so I’m allowed in.

elliott

Oh, sure, of course. Uh, now, so that’s the screening room where everything is 120 frames-per-second and also they just insert CGI hobbits into every movie?

dan

Mm-hm.

stuart

[Laughs.] Uh-huh. Yep.

elliott

So you thought for this whole time that he had a sidekick who was a hobbit.

stuart

It’s—well it’s weird, because every movie comes—every—every movie you watch there is actually twice as long as the original film? [Elliott laughs.]

dan

Yeah. It’s split into three, even though there’s no real reason to…

elliott

So you watched the Gemini Man trilogy and you’re like, ah, is it—it’s weird that Junior and Will Smith are doing this song about washing the dishes! [Laughs.] [Dan laughs.]

stuart

Makes sense, though! It was in the book! Gemini Man the book! [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

By Gem R. R. Mankin.

dan

Alright! And we may—

elliott

I should’ve—I should’ve said—I should’ve said Gem N. I. Mankin.

stuart

Yeah. Next time.

elliott

I think if you—if—if nothing else, I think our listeners owe it to themselves to watch that Cartagena action sequence?

dan

Yeah.

stuart

Yeah.

dan

I mean—

elliott

Yeah!

dan

Wait ‘til it’s free somewhere. But yeah!

elliott

Yeah. I mean—yeah. I mean—or—or… I don’t know. Do or don’t. I don’t know. It’s—but uh—this reminded me a little bit of our Doolittle experience. Where I went into it being like, this is gonna be nuts! And then I was like, alright. This is… y’know. It’s just a movie.

dan

Yeah. And we made it through without, uh, Elliott ever singing “Send in the Clones”! So… it’s a win for all of us. Uh… now!

elliott

Now. Now I—now the idea comes in. Why couldn’t you have done that earlier? [Dan laughs.]

music

Light, up-tempo, electric guitar with synth instruments.

promo

James Arthur: Hi, I’m James, host of Minority Korner, which is a—? Speaker 1: Podcast that’s all about intersectionality. It’s hosted by James with a guest host every week. Speaker 2: Discussing all sorts of wonderful issues; nerdy and political. Speaker 3: Pop culture— Speaker 1: Black, queer feminism. Speaker 4: Race. Sexuality. Speaker 5: News. Speaker 6: You’re gonna learn your history. There’s self-empowerment. And it’s told by what feels like your best friend. Speaker 2: Why should someone listen to Minority Korner? Speaker 7: Why not? Speaker 8: Oh my god. Free stuff. James: There’s not free stuff. Speaker 1: The listeners of Minority Korner will enjoy some necessary lols, but mainly a look at what’s happening in our world through a colorful lens. Speaker 2: People will get the perspective of… marginalized communities. Speaker 1: I feel heard. I feel seen. Speaker 9: Like you said, you need to understand how to be more proactive in your community? And this is a great way to get started. James: Join us every Friday on MaxFun, or wherever you get your podcast. Multiple speakers: Minority Korner! Because together, we’re the majority. 

promo

Music: "Money Won't Pay," by bo en, feat. Augustus. Upbeat, cheerful music. Rachel McElroy: Hi, this is Rachel McElroy! Griffin McElroy: Hello, this is Griffin McElroy! Rachel: And this is Wonderful! Griffin: It's a podcast that we do as—uh, we ma—we are married— [Rachel laughs.] And... How's the ad going so far? 'Cause I think it's going very good. Rachel: [Laughs.] We talk about things we like every week on Wednesdays! Griffin: One time Rachel talked about pumpernickel bread. It was so tight; you cannot afford to miss her talking about this sweet brown bread. Rachel: We also talk about music, and poems, and... you know, weather! Griffin: There was one—weather? [Rachel laughs.] One time Rachel talked about "Baby Beluga," the song, for like 14 minutes, and it b—ooh, just really blew my hair back. [Rachel laughs.] Rachel: So check us out on MaximumFun.org. Griffin: It's a cool podcast with chill vibes. Amber is the color of our energy! Is what all the iTunes reviews say. Rachel: [Chuckles.] They will now! Music: [Fading out] You could end up on the street...

dan

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elliott

Hey, Dan, uh, I had an idea for a website and I was wondering if Squarespace could help me with that. What do you think?

stuart

Go on!

dan

Uh, sure! Let’s hear it!

elliott

Okay. Here’s the problem. You live in the United States. Your clone is in a laboratory in Hungary. How are you gonna send it to you? Well, SendInTheClones.com sends clones to you— [Dan laughs.] —from anywhere, to anywhere. That’s right. SendInTheClones is the top clone delivery service. Getting your clone from whatever bacta tank it was bred in to your home. And you’ll remember the name—SendInTheClones.com—because of the jingle. [Sings] Send in the clones. Send in those clones! Send me my clones.com! But the URL is not “SendMeMyClones.com.” It’s actually “SendInTheClones.com.” Please disregard the first part of the jingle— [Dan laughs.] —it’s SendInTheClones.com!

crosstalk

Dan: Now, are you wedded to that jingle, Elliott? Elliott: So do you think Squarespace can help me with that? [Laughs.]

dan

Or I think—I—

crosstalk

Dan: There’s some edits I could suggest to you. Elliott: I mean, I—

elliott

I mean, I paid Alan Menken to write it— [Dan laughs.] —so I feel like I can’t really afford to get a new one right now.

dan

That’s true. Okay. Well, our second, uh… sponsor for today’s show is Express VPN. Now, you know that, uh, Express VPN can protect your privacy and security online. But did you also know that you can use it to unlock movies and shows that are only available in other countries? Say you, uh, wanna watch your Rick & Morty but it’s only available on Netflix France! Or say, uh, you’re a big, uh, Will Smith fan after watching this and you wanna see, uh, Fresh Prince of Bel-Air on Netflix Australia! Well—

stuart

Mm-hm?

dan

You can use Express VPN for that! Now that so many of us are stuck at home, it’s only a matter of time ‘til you run out of stuff to watch. So you can use your Express VPN to change your location to almost 100 different countries. Just think about all the extra libraries you’ll be able to access. Uh, it’s fast; you can say goodbye to buffering or lag. And stream in HD with no problems. It’s compatible with all your devices—phones, media consoles, smart TVs and more. So you can watch what you want on a personal device or on the big screen, wherever you are. So, uh, visit our special link right now at ExpressVPN.com/flop and get an extra three months of Express VPN for free. Support the show; watch what you want; protect yourself—with Express VPN at ExpressVPN.com/flop.

elliott

It’s crazy that, uh, or amazing—I guess—or crying—whichever Aerosmith title you wanna use—that our screens have gotten so small that the TV is now the big screen? It used to be the little screen and movies were the big screen. Now TV is the big screen and phones are the little screen!

dan

Is this another Andy Rooney bit? Is that what’s going on? [Laughs.] [Stuart laughs.]

elliott

Speaking of people whose names sound kind of like Andy Rooney, Randy Newman just came in with another jingle, uh, for SendInTheClones.com? Uh, Randy, do you wanna hit it? [Singing in Randy Newman impersonation] Sometimes you got clones and you gotta send ‘em around! SendInTheClones.com! ‘Cause you got a friend in me! [Jordan laughs.]

dan

Every single one of your impressions is merging, [through laughter] Elliott. [Multiple people laugh.] Um… hey, guys! Uh, I think you got some Jumbotrons you wanna read.

elliott

Yeah, we do! Stu, you wanna go first or should I go first?

stuart

Uh, I can go first—wait. You go first. I gotta find it.

elliott

Okay. This message is for Cody Mason. And it’s from Gail Kelly. And it says— We had to postpone our wedding due to COVID. You’re quarantining with your future in-laws and you still manage to make me laugh each day. I love you and I can’t wait to get married as soon as we get the chance. I hope this message makes you smile and maybe you’ll even get a special Elliott song out of it. Here’s to more years of love and good-bad movies. That’s a very sweet sentiment. I don’t appreciate being dragooned into— [Dan laughs.] —singing a song, but I’m gonna do it anyway! [Long pause.] Uh—hold on.

dan

Wow. The first time he’s ever been at a loss for words. [Stuart laughs.]

stuart

Oh, wow!

elliott

There’s not—they didn’t give me a lot of hooks. Anyway. Oh. Oh. [Singing] So you’re in a house with your in-laws! And you can’t get married right now! I guess there’s only one thing to do and that’s to go to SendInTheClones.com! That’s right—SendInTheClones.com! [Regular voice] So does that work as a jingle? Or…

dan

Uh… yeah.

stuart

Uh… yeah. I mean, for today’s purposes, yeah.

elliott

Okay. How about this? I’ll do it in the—in the persona of Gail, who sent the message.

stuart

Mm-hm.

elliott

[Singing] Hey, Cody! Thanks for all the stuff that you’re doing right now! We’ll get married someday! I promise! At SendInTheClones.com! [Laughs.] [Regular voice] Oh, did I forget to mention you can get married at the site also.

dan

[Through laughter] Okay. Uh—

stuart

Oh, wow!

dan

All of the clones are, uh, ordained. [Long pause.]

elliott

Yeah.

stuart

[Dramatic announcer voice] Wha—wha—wha—wha—wha—wha—wha Jumbotron! Jumbotron alert! [Multiple people laugh.] Two ex-patriots from opposite sides of the world talk about modern and classic Japanese animation in Tokyo, Japan. Join hosts Ian McAffee and Mark Heath for a highly-casual—and hilarious!—look at the politics, philosophy, and production of anime. Just search for “Animegnorant”—like “ignorant” and “anime” smushed together—in iTunes-slash-wherever and subscribe. That’s A-N-I-M-E-G-N-O-R-A-N-T. Do it.

elliott

Hey, guys, I got another song for Gail and Cody.

dan

Okay.

stuart

Uh-huh. Yep.

elliott

Should I go for it? Okay. [Singing] Sometimes things seem sad! Sometimes you’re gonna get mad. ‘Cause COVID cancelled your wedding! And I’m betting COVID took the deposit and put it into its bank account. But hey! Keep looking for a brighter day! Because love is stronger than viruses! That’s right! Love is stronger than viruses! [Stuart laughs.] The math works out—put a virus and love in a jar and shake it up so they fight and the love—

crosstalk

Dan: No! No! This is— [Laughs.] This is misinformation! [Laughs.] Stuart: This is dangerous. Elliott: —Will come out the winner!

elliott

Some—of course, sometimes love can give you a virus! [Jordan laughs.] But hey! That’s okay. ‘Cause love is stronger than viruses! And the greatest medicine is love!

crosstalk

Dan: Jesus Christ! Elliott: Love, love! From below or above! It’s love— Dan: No!

elliott

Stronger than viruses! SendInTheClones.com!

dan

[Through laughter] No!

stuart

Woof. No thanks.

dan

No! [Sighs.] Not medically accurate. Okay. Um—Elliott. Uh… we teased our live show earlier. Would you like to give more full information about the live show that is happening? If you’re listening to this on the day it’s released, it is happening tonight.

elliott

That’s right. This episode comes out Saturday, June 6th. Correct? Well, today is Saturday June 6th if you’re listening on the day of release! And! Tonight! Saturday—June 6th at 6PM Pacific, 9PM Eastern—that’s right! 9PM Eastern, 6PM Pacific—The Flop House will be coming to you live! Over the internet! It’s just like if you went to go see The Flop House because they went to your city, but now nobody has to go anywhere. We’ll be broadcasting from our houses direct to your house. What are we gonna be talking about? Well, a little movie called Howard T. Duck. That’s right—actually, the movie’s called Howard The Duck—I shortened it a little bit, but it didn’t save a lot of time ‘cause then I had to explain it. That’s right—George Lucas’s classic story based on the Steve Gerber/Gene Colan comics about a duck from another dimension where ducks have boobs, who gets dropped into Lea Thompson’s lap and has to fight, uh, alongside Tim Robbins against Jeffrey Jones. That’s right! It’s Howard the Duck. I haven’t seen it since I was a kid and yet clearly I remember more of it than I should. I’m excited to watch it again. How do I watch this, and why are we doing it? Well, we’re doing it to interview you—the listeners and viewers. But also we’re doing it… for charity. We’re gonna be, uh, have a list of charities that you can donate to during the show. Uh, it’s gonna be on our website. I’ll give you the information for that in a second. And if you donate, you’ll be entered into—raffles! That’s right! Raffles! We’ll explain that in a minute, or rather Dan will. For more information, go to TheFlopHousePodcast.com. That’ll tell you how to go see it, or I’ll tell ya right now! Go to our YouTube channel! YouTube.com/C/TheFlopHousePodcast. Go to TheFlopHousePodcast.com. It’s all there. Go to the Flop House Facebook page; all the information is there, as well. Dan? Uh, tell us about some of these raffles, huh? Is that Raffles the famous, uh, literary, uh, like—

crosstalk

Dan: The gentleman—the gentleman cat burglar? Elliott: —like [inaudible] or thief?

dan

Well, yet again, you took the joke right out of my mouth! So I wont’ talk about that. But I will say—I wanna backtrack a little bit. I will say that, uh, yes. As this is—this is for charity in the sense that we will be asking for donations. But it is entirely free to watch, um… we are just trying to, uh, y’know, use the power of a free-to-watch livestream to, uh, get some money out there to some worthy causes. Uh, and yes. If you donate to any of the charities that are suggested on the website, or, y’know, any charity, basically—uh, send us, um… your receipt. If it’s over $20, this is just— [Laughs.] This is just mostly actually to keep the work down on my end so I’m not deluged by your receipts. But also to encourage generosity, $20 or more. Hey, that’s what you’d pay for a ticket anyway. To get entered into the raffle. And you will get—uh, if you win we’re gonna pick out three people to get prize packs of some Flop House merch. That, uh, was to be our touring merch. We don’t know when we’re gonna tour because of the pandemic, but uh you can have it early if you win.

elliott

And this is new merch!

crosstalk

Elliott: This is merch that has not been sold on Flop House tours before. Dan: New… merch.

dan

All new—

elliott

Never been—

dan

—beautiful merch.

elliott

Never been sold to anyone before. So that’s—today!

stuart

Currently collecting dust in my basement!

elliott

Oh yeah. It’s gonna be real good and dusty. [Laughs.] [Stuart laughs.] So that’s Saturday, June 6th, at 6PM Pacific/9PM Eastern. You wanna hear us talk about Howard the Duck? Yes you do! Are we gonna have presentations beforehand like at a live show? You betcha! We’re going to with slides and everything. That’s gonna be at YouTube.com/c/TheFlopHousePodcast. Or—if you don’t wanna remember all that, for more information just go to TheFlopHousePodcast.com or our Facebook page to find out the information. Uh, and we’ll be explaining more about the charity stuff during the show itself. Uh… just remember—if you go to the YouTube page and you don’t see it, refresh the page and the video should come up! That’s a little tip… from a pro. That’s right— [Stuart laughs.] —professional YouTube watcher!

crosstalk

Stuart: Yeah, yeah. IT Department. Dan: I do wanna—

dan

I do wanna say, uh, you called it “George Lucas’s Howard the Duck.” I wanna make it clear that Lucas produced Howard the Duck. It was, of course, directed by Willard Huyck, who wrote— [Stuart laughs.] --American Graffiti and More American Graffiti, uh, Temple of Doom, uh… Radioland Murders. He also wrote and directed, uh, Best Defense, the movie where, um, uh, Eddie Murphy was added after bad test screenings to a [through laughter] Dudley Moore comedy about, uh, uh, a defense contractor. Uh, and Howard the Duck looks to have ended his directing career! That is his last directing credit. So.

elliott

No, but you’re right, Dan. George Lucas notoriously hands off when he produces things— [Dan laughs.] —I’m sure he just slapped his name on it and let the director do whatever he wanted.

dan

I don’t—look. I just want Willard Huyck to get the, uh, credit he deserves.

stuart

Yeah. He ended on a high note!

elliott

So, uh, that’s our show then. What do we do next on this, Dan?

dan

Uh, next, we, uh, answer letters from listeners. Or just read them.

elliott

[Singing] Hey! Hey send us a letter! Maybe with a clone in it! SendInTheClones.com!

dan

Great. Uh, this first letter is—

elliott

I can see—I can see Jordan marking time codes in her head. [Dan laughs.] Cutting all of those.

stuart

Yeah. Should I just be—should I be clapping? [Dan laughs.] Should I be clapping, Jordan?

dan

[Through laughter] Just constantly? [Laughs.] She’s wielding her power with an iron fist. Um… so Gus, last name withheld, writes—

elliott

Gus Van Sant.

dan

Hey, Peaches! Long time listener, first time writer. I’m in my early twenties and I’m frequently lost when it comes to the references used on your show. Years of listening and re-listening to the podcast have made it—

elliott

[Through laughter] Wait. Hold on. This early-twenties guy isn’t hip to Raffles, the gentleman cat burglar? [Laughs.] [Multiple people laugh.]

dan

[Through laughter] Well, I don’t think that’s of our time, either, Elliott. [Laughs.] If you’re a—

crosstalk

Elliott: Yeah. True. True. Dan: —afficionado of, uh—

dan

[Through laughter] --Victoriana, maybe you’ll, uh, anyway. Uh— I’m in my early twenties and I’m frequently lost when it comes to the references used on the show. Years of listening and re-listening to the podcast have made it feel like I have watched some of the frequently-referenced films just through osmosis, but I’ve actually sought out some movies because of how often they come up on the show. I’m wondering what you all would include in a Flop House essentials list—a list of movies, television, or other media that are frequently referenced or just a good starting point for understanding your humor. Some examples that come to mind are RoboCop, Night Court and The Road Warrior. Keep Flopping in the free world! Gus. Uh, well, y’know, uh… DuckTales comes to mind, of course. The classic DuckTales, the cartoon. Part of the new wave of Disney, uh, television, uh, cartoons.

elliott

Uh, the Disney afternoon.

dan

Yeah. Based on the works of Carl Barks, who I recommend you seek out. Um… what else?

stuart

I don’t—I don’t know. Are there any movies that are essential to understanding the things I like? I don’t talk about any movie individually that often… [Elliott laughs.] Yeah, I don’t know! This is a tough one!

elliott

Now—

stuart

Uh, no. It’s Castle Freak. I would recommend watching Castle Freak. Watch the special edition that has all the scenes, not this one that most people have watched. Uh, Castle Freak, directed by Stuart Gordon, RIP. A king.

dan

Uh, Colombo, maybe? What do you got, Elliott?

elliott

Uh, I think if you can go watch, uh, old episodes of 60 Minutes to see Andy Rooney in them. Uh, and I guess watch Tango & Cash, uh, for Sylvester Stallone. And I guess watch, uh… I don’t know. Uh…

stuart

Tango & Cash is a good one. That’s basically sums up everything we like about movies. [Multiple people laugh.]

crosstalk

Elliott: I guess—yeah. Dan: Everything.

elliott

Yeah! Exactly! I think so.

dan

God—

elliott

Uh, I don’t know. I think—it’s—here’s—here’s what I would say. Much as when I was a lad and I was watching Mystery Science Theater, and I didn’t understand some of their references, I just looked up, uh, did some research and back then I had to use books. Not the internet. [Multiple people laugh.] To find out what that thing was and I watched it! So just kind of, like, don’t look for a quick—quick, uh, solution. Pick up—when a reference is particularly intriguing to you, be like, I need to find out what that means. Sometimes—

dan

Or don’t! [Laughs.]

elliott

—it might just be a—it just—it’s—I mean, sometimes it’s an ad jingle from when we were kids and it won’t be worth looking up. But.

dan

[Through laughter] Save some time and don’t! Y’know, this exercise has made me feel, uh, almost older than anything else. But uh, now—

elliott

Well, that, Dan, that says—that says more about your physical being that—that any kind of exercise like this made you feel so old. Y’know.

dan

Now, Jordan, I’m led to believe that you have listened to this show before. Is there any, uh— [Laughs.] Is there any reference you find that we make a lot that is baffling?

jordan

Uh, I’m not baffled by any of the references. I’ve been, uh, uh, listening to this show for much longer than I’ve been on as an associate producer, so I think—yeah. Your advice to, y’know, google is your friend. If it sounds like a—something cool I would definitely look it up. And maybe dig into Randy Newman’s back catalog. I don’t know.

elliott

Is there—was there ever a time—was there ever a time you remember listening to the show and you were like, what are they talking about. [Stuart laughs.]

jordan

You used to talk about theater a lot more. Of course, now, y’know, no one can really go out and see a show on Broadway. But I definitely remember in the before times, Elliott talking about different stage plays that I had never heard of before.

elliott

That’s also—that’s—that’s also a consequence of my having children and never getting to go to the theatre anymore. Oh, I used to see so many shows. So many amazing shows. And yet what was the last—the last play I saw? I don’t even remember!

dan

Hm.

elliott

Maybe I never saw a play. Maybe I dreamed it all. A beautiful theatre dream.

stuart

Mm-hm.

elliott

Mm-hm.

dan

Okay. Uh… so.

elliott

Oh, no, wait! It was Matilda.

stuart

Oh, okay! I saw that!

elliott

Yeah. The musical.

dan

Oh, alright. Um—

stuart

Uh, and it’s—and you’re talking about the stage play. Not—not the book, right?

elliott

No, no. I saw the book sitting on a stage.

stuart

That—that doesn’t answer—that’s not a stage play, then. [Laughs.]

elliott

Oh, I’m sorry. The last one I saw was probably then Twelfth Night. [Pause.] The book. Sitting on a stage. Yeah. [Stuart laughs.] Maybe it was Hamilton? By Ron Chernow? It was [through laughter] sitting on a stage? [Dan laughs.]

stuart

Oh man, these just keep being books! [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.]

dan

Oh, God.

elliott

I gotta look back to find when there was one that was actual person—people. Oh, it was probably The Addams Family.

crosstalk

Elliott: Book of Charles Addams cartoons. Stuart: Wait, the book? [All laugh.]

dan

[Through laughter] Okay.

elliott

No, you know what? I think—you know, I think it was Wicked. The book. [Stuart laughs.]

dan

Yep. These were all books. Fun Home? That’s another book. Okay.

crosstalk

Elliott: Yep. It is. [Laughs.] Stuart: Yep. [Laughs at length.] Dan: Anyway.

stuart

Alright, this is a fun game for listeners. Uh, if you can think of a play that isn’t a book— [Multiple people laugh.] I don’t know, go tell it to the Marines!

elliott

You know, I think—you know what? The last one I saw—

crosstalk

Dan: [Through laughter] Like—like The Monster SquadElliott: —was probably—

dan

—write in a note to the Marines! [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

Yeah.

dan

They’ll come to your town!

elliott

Just the, uh, I think it was probably Tootsie. The screenplay. The screenplay of Tootsie was sitting on the stage. [Stuart laughs.]

dan

Oh. That’s a real stretch now. Okay. Um—this next—this next— [Laughs.]

elliott

You know what? Oh. It was—it was Blue Man Group. [Multiple people laugh.]

stuart

Oh, wow!

elliott

Uh—

stuart

Where is this going?

elliott

The book? [Laughs.] [Stuart laughs.]

dan

Okay. Um… this next letter is from Adam, last name withheld, who writes—

elliott

Adam Driver. Yeah.

dan

Dear Flop House, I started a podcast about the TV show Home Improvement called Home Impodcast. But now everyone keeps asking me to hang their shelves-slash-refinish their hardwood floor and assuming I’m a conservative!

crosstalk

Dan: What should I do? Question mark, exclamation mark? Jordan: [Makes goofy “huh?!”-style grunting sound from the show.]

jordan

I can’t do the voice. I tried to do the grunt. [Dan laughs.]

crosstalk

Stuart: [Successfully makes grunting noise.] Elliott: Well, try it again! Do it!

elliott

Do the—do the caveman grunt or whatever it is.

jordan

[Imitates Home Improvement grunt.] [Dan laughs.]

dan

That’s pretty good.

elliott

Not bad.

stuart

Wait. I—I got—I got one. More powerrrr! [Multiple people laugh.] Right?

elliott

What about this? What about this? I’m the baby! Gotta love me! [Multiple people laugh.]

stuart

Oh, yeah! You did that! [Multiple people laugh.] Hey, do you guys remember when the youngest son got like super into Nu metal? That was really awesome.

elliott

Yeah. Near the end of the run he turned really goth. So, uh, so—the problem that the writer is having is that their Home Improvement podcast—people think that he is an actual home improvement guy, or they think he’s Tim Allen? Because who else would wanna do a podcast about Home Improvement? Or—oHome

stuart

Oh, yeah.

dan

I mean,—

stuart

It’s like that Sopranos podcast.

dan

Yeah. I—I assume—like, this is obviously a podcast driven in large part by nostalgia. And, uh, problem he seems to be running into is that, uh, Tim Allen has turned out to be, uh… uh… a—not a great human. [Long pause.]

stuart

Yeah.

elliott

Wait, the Tim Allen who went to jail for cocaine sales? [Dan laughs.]

crosstalk

Dan: Yeah. The same one. [Laughs.] Yeah. Elliott: Before he was a television star? Jordan: Yeah. The Tim Allen that ratted out all of his friends. [Laughs.] [All laugh.]

dan

[Sighs.] Oh. Okay. Well— [Laughs.]

stuart

Yeah. That was—that’s the one that Dan liked, right? [Dan laughs.]

elliott

What, Home Imp—that Tim Allen? Yeah. I think so.

crosstalk

Dan: Uh, yeah. No. The only one I like is the disembodied voice that, uh, does Buzz Lightyear. [Laughs.] Elliott: Yeah. When—when Galaxy

elliott

Yeah. When Galaxy Quest came out, Dan was like—ugh, just do some commercials about how great Michigan is! That’s what I wanna hear from you! [Stuart laughs.]

stuart

Yeah. When Galaxy Quest came out, Dan’s like—what’s all—what’s up with all these lame actors that aren’t Tim Allen that are in this movie? [Multiple people laugh.]

elliott

Some sort of Rickman? What is this all about?

dan

Should clone them in some sort of Gemini Man, uh, situation.

stuart

Yep.

dan

They could all be played by Tim Allen! In the future, all restaurants are Tim Allen! Anyway. [Multiple people laugh.] That’s a reference!

crosstalk

Dan: Look that one up! Elliott: So that’s a—

elliott

So that’s a—that’s a Demolition Man reference that you rolled into a Gemini Man reference. Like a turducken of references. [Multiple people laugh.]

dan

[Through laughter] Um—

elliott

It’s a reference to Tim Allen being in Galaxy Quest in the future of Demolition Man.

dan

Mm-hm. [Stuart laughs.] But he’s also a restaurant. Anyway.

elliott

With some Gemini Man sprinkled on it! Interesting. Yeah.

dan

Uh… last letter is from Jen, last name withheld. It’s very short. Uh, this is regarding Canadians having sex. I believe we asked whether they—whether they did it. And, uh…

elliott

When was that? What—what possible context would we have asked that?

dan

I have no idea. Jen, last name withheld—care of a Mountie, maybe? Uh, and Jen says: Absolutely not. So there ya have it. Canadians— [Elliott laughs.] —do not have sex.

stuart

Okay.

elliott

Wow!

stuart

Uh, somebody update that Wikipedia article. [Multiple people laugh.]

jordan

Uh, Drake is a Canadian and I’m pretty sure Drake fucks. So. [Dan laughs.]

stuart

Oh. Okay. Well, I don’t know! This person knows everybody in Canada. [Laughs.]

elliott

I don’t know. Drake seems pretty busy cheering at women’s basketball games. I don’t think he has time for that sort of thing.

dan

I mean, Rick Moranes has kids, so I guess… yeah.

elliott

Jordan, your eyeroll when I brought up Drake’s, uh, WNBA fandom was fantastic. [Multiple people laugh.]

dan

Um… well that’s letters! That’s our segment called “Letters”!

elliott

I guess—I guess we need to ask a question. We need to ask does Leslie Nielsen have any kids and that’s the only way we’ll find out for sure if Canadians have sex or not.

dan

Yeah. Uh… hey, let’s recommend movies! Movies that you can watch… if you like, uh, instead of Gemini Man or in addition to! We don’t control you. Um… what am I gonna recommend? I—I watched, uh…

elliott

I’ll tell ya, Dan. You were gonna recommend Galaxy Quest, but they’re all Tim Allen.

dan

It’s a pretty good movie, Galaxy Quest. Uh…

stuart

Yeah! Of course it is!

dan

Um, no. Yeah. No objections there. Uh, let’s see! Oh, I remember—so I watched, um, so Raising Cain is a Brian De Palma movie that, uh, was greeted with great derision, uh, when it came out. And I remember—

stuart

It’s also, uh, it’s also… the inspiration for a fast-food chain that sells chicken fingers!

dan

Oh! Uh, I’ve watched it— [Laughs.]

stuart

I think it’s—I think it’s, uh, localized to like Kentucky maybe? I’m not sure.

dan

I— [Laughs.] Watched— [Elliott laughs.] I watched this movie also as a, uh, young man and I thought it was bonkers and kind of fun. Um... but I could see definitely why it was, uh… disliked. And then recently, there was a fan edit—I believe it was—that re-sequenced the movie, um, per Brian De Palma’s original script? And original, uh, intention for the movie? The movie had been re-sequenced by the, uh, studio. And he liked it so much that it became the official director’s cut. And I watched that and the movie is still, uh, a very strange, overheated movie, but maybe a good version of that? Like, I—my favorite—like, he’s a very divisive director and I don’t—I understand if you don’t like him. And there’s some stuff that is, uh… gross in his— [Laughs.] His filmography. But I like him the best when he’s taking absolutely absurd thriller plots and raising them… raising the absurdity through like pure cinema. And… this movie has a crazy, uh, climax that plays on three, uh, planes of height? Simultaneously? Like, you see… what’s going on, on three levels? And, uh, just as, like, uh, an exercise in… filmmaking, it’s quite something to see. So, uh, that’s my recommendation. See the recut version if you can of Raising Cain.

stuart

Okay. That—that movie was on, uh, that movie was on… like… uh, when I first moved to a new house when I was a kid it was like the first time I remember moving to a new house. Uh, my parents got a satellite dish. So we had never had cable or anything and then all of a sudden we had a satellite dish, which had, like, everything. It would have like movie channels that would play the same movie over and over and over and over all day long. And Raising Cain was one of the first, uh, movies that I saw—I watched on one of those things. So I remember seeing it a lot? But since it was constantly cycling, I, like, never knew where it began or ended? It was just always Raising Cain? [Elliott laughs.]

dan

[Through laughter] Well, also, the movie like jumps around in chronology, uh, and does weird dream sequences. So it would be very baffling [through laughter] if you saw it that way.

stuart

It—it made watching 3rd Rock from the Sun very strange for me because I was so used to Raising Cain as John Lithgow’s main credit. I’m gonna recommend a movie called Extra Ordinary. It’s a spooooky comedy— [Dan laughs.] Uh, uh, starring Maeve Higgins and featuring a bunch of other people in Ireland. Uh, it’s about some, uh, ghost hunters and, uh, evil, uh, wizards and it’s funny. And Will Forte’s funny. And, uh, it manages to be, like… sweet but not overly saccharine. Uh, it’s funny. And weird and… uh, though it does have a fair amount of special effects, I don’t feel—like sometimes, uh, uh, uh, special effects-driven comedy can be, uh, I don’t know. Like, it’ll—it’ll be less funny for me, but, uh, this one worked! I liked it. I’d recommend it. Extra Ordinary.

elliott

Uh, okay. Jordan, what have you got?

jordan

So I wanted to recommend a black film because, uh, this week has been really trying for the African-American community in America? I wanted to recommend uh, 1991’s Daughters of the Dust from director Julie Dash. It’s, uh, beautifully shot, beautifully directed. Uh, I really like it. I think that, uh, you’ll—if you haven’t watched it before? It’s, uh, a great film to kind of just decompress to? And, uh, if you’ve seen it before it’s, uh, a great film to return to? And, uh, yeah! I think it’s great! Daughters of the Dust!

elliott

Mm-hm. Daughters of the Dust is like kind of like a dream vision. Movie.

jordan

It’s like a dream vision and it—it has a quality to it. One thing that I really like about it is it’s just black people in a time period that we don’t really, uh, look at from that angle? In—in, y’know, American entertainment? Just black people minding their black-ass business. I love it. [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

Put it on the poster— [Dan laughs.] Uh— [Laughs.] [Stuart laughs.] I’m going to recommend a, uh, Japanese movie. That’s right, guys! We’re continuing my strain lately of rediscovering Japanese cinema. Uh, I saw recently a movie called Funeral Parade of Roses. It’s from 1969. It’s directed by Toshio Matsumoto. And stars the performer known as Pîtâ, who, uh, you may know as the Fool character from Ran, Kurasawa’s King Lear story. But uh—Funeral Parade of Roses, it’s kind of like… part… retelling of Oedipus Rex; part retelling of All About Eve; part documentary about the 1960s—what they called in Japan the “gay boy” subculture? Which was kind of the very early stirrings in Japan of… uh… of transsexualism and homosexual identity over there? And part kind of… Jean-Luc Godard-style New Wave collage of styles. And it’s in some ways about the way that left-wing art and this kind of new… for Japan—like, kind of exploration of… uh… of sexual polarity was merging together? But it’s also kind of a suspense movie where you have to puzzle out the backstory and… it’s just really interestingly put together and the photography is great. Like, the images are super sharp and exiting and there’s all sorts of formal tricks with editing and things like that. Uh… that are real neat. And it’s just, uh, like a real—it’s just a really unique movie. So Funeral Parade of Roses, a movie that is… a real experience! I’ll tell ya that.

crosstalk

Dan: Wonderful. Four—movies. Stuart: Four movies! [Multiple people laugh.]

elliott

Four movies. Four… action blockbusters! [Dan laughs.] All on one DVD! Your local video store!

stuart

Oh, shit.

elliott

Raising Cain. Extra Ordinary. Daughters of the Dust. And Funeral Parade of Roses—now available in one set!

dan

Fled! Chill Factor! [Laughs.] Uh— [Multiple people laugh.] Uh—

stuart

Guaranteed entertainment!

dan

Hard Target!

elliott

They would have—they would have those DVDs where it would be like—it would be like: Chill Factor. Hard Target. The Fugitive. And I’d be like, how did The Fugitive get thrown onto this thing? Like— [Dan laughs.]

dan

Yeah. That’s what you call a loss-leader, Elliott.

elliott

Yeah. I guess so. It’d be like Back to the Future. Uh, Losin’ It. Screwballs. Like, why did they— [Laughs.] Why did they throw in these movies on the same disc?

dan

Teen comedy classics, Elliott! [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

I guess so!

dan

Uh… well, that’s our show! Um… hey, guys. Great to be here. Great to see ya. [Laughs.] Jordan, thanks for being here!

elliott

Is it—is it great to be here, Dan? Jordan, thanks so much for being here. I want to apologize in person and on the podcast for the way we consistently forget to credit you at the end of the podcast. [Dan laughs.] Uh—but uh… we hope you enjoyed your time as a—as a member of the Peaches on camera… microphone? As opposed to when you’re usually just… backstage.

jordan

This has been so much fun. Thanks, guys.

dan

Uh—hey! One last, uh, appeal to watch us on the livestream tonight? And even if you don’t? Y’know, donate to a charity. Now is the time. Um, but, uh, thank you for listening. We’ll be back soon. For The Flop House, I’ve been Dan McCoy.

stuart

I’m Stuart Wellington!

elliott

I’m Elliott Kalan!

jordan

And I’m Jordan Kauwling!

dan

Byeeee!

stuart

Byeeeee!

music

Light, up-tempo, electric guitar with synth instruments.

elliott

So Jordan, how many of those SendInTheClones do you think you’re gonna cut?

jordan

All of them. [Multiple people laugh.]

stuart

Thank youuu!

crosstalk

Dan: Alright. Stuart: Oh man.

stuart

It’s good to have somebody on our team. [Elliott laughs.]

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About the show

The Flop House is a bimonthly audio podcast devoted to the worst in recent film. Your hosts (Elliott Kalan, Dan McCoy, and Stuart Wellington) watch a questionable film just before each episode, and then engage in an unscripted, slightly inebriated discussion, focusing on the movie’s shortcomings and occasional delights.

Follow @flophousepod on Twitter and @theflophousepodcast on Instagram. Email them at theflophousepodcast@gmail.com.

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