TRANSCRIPT Oh No, Ross and Carrie! Ep. 407: Ross and Carrie Download Caroline Cory: Extraterrestrial Telepathy Edition

Carrie tells Ross about UFO speaker Caroline Cory, who claims to bring “as much science as possible” to the study of paranormal topics like aliens, telepathy, information downloads, and mental health. Plus, Drew takes a videography class from “Mr. M.”

Podcast: Oh No, Ross and Carrie!

Episode number: 407



Music: “Oh No, Ross and Carrie! Theme Song” by Brian Keith Dalton. A jaunty, upbeat instrumental.

Carrie Poppy: Hello! Welcome to Oh No, Ross and Carrie!, the show where we don’t just report on fringe science, spirituality, and claims of the paranormal. We take part ourselves!

Ross Blocher: Yep. When they make the claims, we show up, so you don’t have to. I’m Ross Blocher.

Carrie Poppy: And I’m Kerry Poppy. And we are back at Contact in the Desert.

Ross Blocher: Yay! There are UFOs floating above our heads.

Carrie Poppy: Yes.

Ross Blocher: But first, we have to report on MaxFunDrive, because you all supported us so well. Thank you so much to everybody who continues to support us, to everybody who boosted, joined, or upgraded during the MaxFunDrive, because we got to all of our goals! If you were excited about any of them, we are on the hook for every single one. So, we got to 2,124 new and upgrading and boosting members.

Carrie Poppy: Oh, what a friendly number too! 2124? Whew! Two times one—

Ross Blocher: It’s a great number. As a number memorizer, I like that one.

Carrie Poppy: Yeah, two times one plus two equals four, right? Yeah! Ugh, love it. Love it.

Ross Blocher: Sure. Yeah. A lot of ways you could drop symbols in there, and it would make sense. And it’s just 100 ahead of the year that we’re in.

Carrie Poppy: Ah! It’s perfect.

Ross Blocher: Anyways, thank you all.

Carrie Poppy: I’m so glad one more person did not join, because this would really screw it up for me.

Ross Blocher: It would have thrown the whole thing off. Hey, you can still join if you’re like, “Oh no, I missed the MaxFunDrive!” Don’t worry. You can still go to, and you’ll still get—

Carrie Poppy: Just bring a friend so we stay at an even number.

Ross Blocher: Yeah, come in twos, like you would on the Arc.

(Carrie laughs.)

And even if you sign up now, you’ll still get the bonus content—which includes our talk with John Hodgman, our Communion Communion Bonbon BonCon.

Carrie Poppy: Exactly. I couldn’t have said it better myself.

Ross Blocher: That also means we’ll be traveling to Texas to check out the Whitley Strieber archives. We’ll also be pitching a talk to—

Carrie Poppy: Conscious Life Expo.

Ross Blocher: (Chuckling.) Yeah. I’m excited and nervous about this.

Carrie Poppy: We’ve shown up there every year to attend talks. Will we be able to give one? We’ll see.

Ross Blocher: Will they give us a mic?

Carrie Poppy: And finally, everyone’s waiting for it—another episode of Flavor Babies!

Ross Blocher: That’s right.

Carrie Poppy: When will it drop? When will they hear it? Mm. It’s hard to say.

Ross Blocher: Also to everybody who’s been eagerly waiting, thank you for your patience. We have a new Creation Museum episode hitting this week; I’m dropping it off with the MaxFun folks. So, go check the bonus content feeds.

Carrie Poppy: Nice!

Ross Blocher: And we’ll keep it going. But yeah, let’s talk about Contact in the Desert. So, you’ve got a fun talk to report on today. And! We’ve got our special guest, who was with us for the whole thing.

Carrie Poppy: We have a roving reporter from my own hometown—which is my home—Drew Spears!

Drew Spears: Oh, hey guys.

Ross Blocher: Welcome, Drew.

Carrie Poppy: Hey, babe. So, Drew is my husband, and he came with us to Contact in the Desert—mostly for fun, but then he saw this talk. And he said I have to learn more.

Drew Spears: Yeah, I originally went, because I was like I do like the desert. I like immoderate climates.

(Ross giggles.)

I spend a lot of the time going with y’all to talk. Some talks I would leave, because I found some of them not very interesting.

Ross Blocher: You’re a normal person.

Drew Spears: There’s only, like so many hours of a panel of people who talk about how they’re so close to getting disclosure to happen. Just—we can’t trust the government, but also write to your congressman and get disclosure. It’s just baffling to me.

Carrie Poppy: Yeah, there actually aren’t just so many hours to do that—there are endless hours to do that!

Drew Spears: But you know, I had a great time on the trip. I loved hanging out with you all, loved the desert, loved getting to walk around. It’s an interesting place. I think by the last day, I just went to the hotel like spa, which no one was in. Which was great. But yeah, the one thing that I wanted to make a point of going to—and I’m gonna just grab that from Ross so I can make sure I get the title right—”Putting Your Best Face Forward: Video production tips and tricks from a leading film industry professional.”

Ross Blocher: He said face, not foot? Putting your best—?

Drew Spears: Face, yes, that’s right. Best face forward. And this is by Mr. M.

Ross Blocher: ‘Cause he wanted some anonyMity.

Drew Spears: Yes. And that, I think, was the carrot on the stick for me, is like, oh, is this gonna be—? Who is this guy?

Ross Blocher: Can I figure out who this guy is?

Drew Spears: Is he going to be someone in the industry that I recognize? Is it gonna be—like, I don’t know, just like—that’s—oh, a pseudonymous person is giving a talk? That’s about as interesting as something gets. Okay. Here we go.

“Mr. M. He’s a renowned visual effects supervisor, colorist, and postproduction producer based in Los Angeles. Over the course of 20+ years in postproduction, he founded and grew two postproduction companies and supervised the workflow, dailies, VFX, color, and delivery of over 200 feature films and episodics.”

So, yeah, definitely like—I mean, per this, seems to have like a real career.


And he does a lot of the behind the scenes like deliverables stuff that, you know, kind of makes the industry move faster in post. So, I was like that seems believable. I think if you’re gonna lie about it, you would think like, “I’m actually a secret script doctor for this organization.”

Ross Blocher: You could definitely be more grandiose about those claims.

Drew Spears: Yeah, this is just like very much like—I know like dozens and dozens of people who have this sort of a job in post. It’s not super glam. I mean, it’s fun, but it’s not super glamorous or something that like, you know, you would swing your ego around in Los Angeles.

Carrie Poppy: And Drew works in film production! So, I was like imagine what you can learn from Mr. M, babe, whoever he might be.

Ross Blocher: And this wasn’t a talk he gave just once. It was kind of sprinkled occasionally throughout the schedule. So, I was really glad you were going. ‘Cause I was curious about this.

Drew Spears: Yes. I went to the lecture A, but I want to say that lecture B was canceled. ‘Cause he made a comment. I mean—and I’ll get into who he is. But he made a comment that he was like pretty much just like leaving afterwards, like right after. So, but yeah.

Ross Blocher: Oh! Only till the wind changes.

Drew Spears: A part of me was like, oh, I might pick up some business, some connections like you know. If a bunch of people need to rent a studio for their disclosure documentary or their live stream.

Ross Blocher: Oh, you might personally pick up some business and be like, “Hey, you want to record in my studio?”

Drew Spears: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don’t think I would be morally compromised by letting a UFO person film something at my studio. It feels rather—on the whole, pretty benign and, you know, safe.

Ross Blocher: And it sounds like the workshop—is it a workshop or just sort of a lecture?

Drew Spears: Well, okay. So, I get there. It’s one of the smaller halls. Just sitting by myself thinking about the nature of lecture halls and like hotel convention spaces. Because we’re at this huge hotel that’s like made for this.

Ross Blocher: So, just conventional thoughts.

Drew Spears: (Chuckling at the pun.) Yeah, just very conventional thoughts. And there’s like probably—it’s probably a room of 60, and there’s probably like 20 of us. This is still pretty early. And you know, it’s a pretty niche thing. I’m just like watching this guy set up some c stands, and set up some lights, and like set up his computer, and set up a camera. And it just—everything feels very identifiable. And like, it’s my first thing, and then—

Ross Blocher: Oh, I’ve got one of those. Ooh, I should upgrade to that. Oh, he could use the one I have.

Drew Spears: Yeah, it’s like the first—this was the prevalent theme, where I was like, “Wow, I really got out of town to just go to something where I essentially get to hear someone talk about what I do at work all the time.”

Ross Blocher: Now, my impression of this was that he’s showing people how to make higher quality YouTube videos of themselves.

Drew Spears: That is exactly what this is. This is—and it’s very interesting, because he introduces himself, and he explains why he’s pseudo-anonymous. And he’s kind of underplaying it while also like—I mean, he won’t say the thing, which is I think just like people in the industry would find it weird if I led with this as like a hobby. But he was like, “You know, I’m kind of agnostic on the whole alien thing. I don’t know, like—but it’s like I do have a lot of friends in it, and I do happen to work on a Gaia TV show, and—” Which I wish—I want to say it was—I’m not positive about this, so do not take me at my word. ‘Cause he showed some clips from some stuff he worked on. And I want to say it was Disclosure with Dr. Steven Greer. I could be wrong about that. I might have that wrong.

‘Cause he showed like the set and like kinda how he lit it, and it was an impressive set. But like the overall thesis—(stammering) and he was like, “I did this as a favor for my friend. This lecture is like all of—” Which just feels like a very abdicating of responsibility and not willing to say what he thinks.

Ross Blocher: You’re answering all of my questions here, because—well, A) we talk about Steven Greer a lot on the show. But also, that’s cool, kind of that he admitted just his own ambivalence on the topic. But I was also curious, okay, who roped him into this? And it sounds like it was a favor for a friend.

Drew Spears: Maybe. I think he was trying to have it both ways. I kind of doubt his ambivalence. I think he is a believer. By the end of it, that’s what I got. And he also like showed us his credits, and it was a lot of—I was trying to triangulate who it was. But it was all—

Ross Blocher: Yeah, I feel like you narrowed it down, but we’ll keep his anonymity, right?

Drew Spears: Yeah. I never got to the point where I was like, “It’s definitely this person,” even though I’m like staring at someone. But when he mentioned a few credits, you know.

Ross Blocher: Describe the man! What does he look like? Who mugged you?

Drew Spears: Generic White.

Ross Blocher: (Laughs.) A tall white?

Drew Spears: In my head—I might just be stereotyping what I think of it as like White dudes who work in post, but I’m like he is White and tall. But I could be wrong about both details. I don’t think I am though.

Ross Blocher: Post folks often don’t see a lot of sun.

Drew Spears: Yes, yeah, that’s very true. As someone who works in a windowless building and sometimes I’m like, “Oh, I didn’t see the sun today.”

Ross Blocher: I’m thinking of all my post friends and I’m trying to think of like who might come after me for this. But no, I think they’d all agree.

Drew Spears: No, it’s just true. It’s just true. But yeah, he like showed his credits. And it’s a lot of like, oh, doing VFX and dailies and deliverables on kind of large-scale streaming blockbuster-y type things. I don’t like have a great example of a definite credit, but it’s like something like that Chris Evans movie on Amazon.


Like, that’s the sort of scale of something where it’s like—and that is both a big movie and also something that no one will remember in two years.

Ross Blocher: But if he’s showing you lighting setups, it sounds like he’s also been involved in production as well as moving big files around later and editing.

Drew Spears: Oh, absolutely. And that’s what he more or less was saying was like everyone’s videos look bad in this community, and it makes you look bad. It’s why people think you look crazy. It’s like, yes. I mean, he never said like, “It doesn’t matter what you’re saying.” He was just like, “Because if you have something poorly lit, and you’re doing it with your camera phone, and you’re just against a white wall, you will look less credible.” Which, you know, is something I think I have—I think it’s just empirically true.

Ross Blocher: He’s onto something. Yeah. So, on one hand, cool. Yeah. Giving good, useful tips for this community. But also, I’m not sure I want them to appear more convincing. So, I don’t know how to feel about this.

Drew Spears: So, you know, he had some lights up, and he was showing people how to do basic like three-point lighting or use negative fill to create a more moody ambiance and—

Ross Blocher: Get an angle slightly above the eye line.

Drew Spears: Yeah. And this like—it was like more or less just like go get the Blackmagic Pocket Camera. Which, you know, I have one. He’s like, “You can download DaVinci Resolve,” which I use.

Ross Blocher: It’s free, yeah.

Drew Spears: It’s weird how much his workflow just like kind of mimicked what I use. But then like towards the end, after he did the three-point lighting thing and showed like how to like actually correct color and do a little bit of in-camera, not letting things look blown out, just like nice and even and showing like something that anyone can—like, you may not have production values, but like if you have three lights and a camera, you can at least position something in a way where it looks a little bit better.

Ross Blocher: Yeah. And was he talking about costs? Like, okay—

Drew Spears: Yeah. He was like, you know. “These are all things that are, you know, on the prosumer end. But you know, even if you don’t want to get those things, these basic tenets can apply to like, you know, anything.”

Carrie Poppy: But how would you like set up three lights if you’re trying to capture a UFO in the sky? Like, what kind of practical application are we talking about?

Drew Spears: Well, it’s not for like the getting of the UFO. This would be like if you’re doing like a documentary type of confessional.

Carrie Poppy: Oh, okay, so his complaint is like, “Y’all have UFO documentaries with sloppy talking heads?”

Ross Blocher: Yeah, and your YouTube videos are horrible looking.

Drew Spears: Yeah, or your Zoom calls.

Carrie Poppy: Oh my god, that’s not the problem!

(Ross laughs.)

I thought he was gonna be like, “You know, the grainy footage in the UFO photos is bad.” And like—

Drew Spears: We’ll get to that in just a second.

Carrie Poppy: Because that, yeah, fair enough.

Ross Blocher: Put it on a tripod!

Carrie Poppy: Right, but then I’m like, oh, you don’t see the problem then. The problem is that the UFO is like probably better identified as something else.

Drew Spears: There is a little bit of that towards the end. But yeah, no, it’s mostly just like, “Oh, if you want to look like a reasonable person while talking about this, you should consider how you present yourself on camera.”

Carrie Poppy: (Yelling in frustration.) Oh my god, I can’t believe this! This is so off base!

(Ross and Drew laugh.)

This is not the problem. But okay, we’re gonna also get to improving your UFO videos?

Ross Blocher: Carrie went from just mildly approving and interested to just outrage! Oh my! What is this? What are we even doing?!

Carrie Poppy: I don’t understand!

Drew Spears: Well, no, we’re not gonna get to improving your UFO videos.

(Ross laughs.)

(Stammering.) By the end—remember, at the beginning of this, I was like—he insists that he is agnostic, and he was doing this as a favor for a friend, even though he works on a UFO TV show and is here. And so, he’s showing everyone the workflow of Blackmagic DaVinci Resolve, which is an editing—I mean, it’s—a lot of people primarily use it for color correction. But it’s also—you know, I use it for editing as well as color correction.

Ross Blocher: And the free version is very functional, and it’s like 300 bucks for the full one.

Drew Spears: Very functional. One of the last things also, if you want the full thing where—this is an ad for Blackmagic Design.

Ross Blocher: Why not? Not a sponsor of the show.

Drew Spears: I just got their G2 micro cameras. They’re great. But yeah, it’s one of those things where it’s just like—they don’t have subscription models or anything like that. Please, please give me things for free, Blackmagic Design. I’ve given you just an insane amount of money.

(Ross chuckles.)

But—so, he’s just like—and so, he’s showing you like, “Oh, this is how you drop footage in here. And you can just easily—like, this is how to like do a L edit or like a J.” You know, just like essentially so that it’s just like—you know, you can always—

Ross Blocher: Carrie is now covering her eyes.

Drew Spears: You can always have B roll and start an interview and then come into the shot of the interview mid-sentence. You know? Just like kind of like these very Film School 101 type things. But like I don’t think most of the audience is—

Ross Blocher: Have multiple angles so you can edit yourself later and cut between your pauses.

Drew Spears: Yes, stuff like that. So, he’s showing everyone DaVinci, and he’s just like, “I want to show you two cool things.” And then he grabbed two UFO videos. One was—or like unidentified object.

Ross Blocher: Carrie’s interested again.

Drew Spears: One was like from a plane that something like flew in just like kind of grazes the plane and then flies off. I feel like it was something like where it’s just like some sort of unidentifiable thing. And he’s just like—


“You know, I work in special effects. I know when things are fake. Like, I could very easily figure out whether or not there’s any obvious artifacting of, you know, CGI work, or—” You know, which is sort of true. He’s like, “Check this out in DaVinci Resolve.”

Ross Blocher: That attitude could get you into trouble if you just don’t happen to be able to explain one thing.

Carrie Poppy: It’s a bird!

Drew Spears: But he’s like—this video, he’s just like—and once again, I’m agnostic about this, but he’s just like, “And there’s an identifiable object.” He like takes a still of it. And then he like just fucks with like the gamma and the like contrast and the saturation. And he’s just like putting it at like complete saturation, and he’d just be like, “If this was CGI or Photoshop, you’d see artifacting in this like spectrometer.” And he’s like, “There’s no such artifacting.” Which is one of those things that like sounds smart, but is, in fact, complete bullshit.

Ross Blocher: Well, and also a competent visual effects person will be working with filters turned on, and they’ll be getting rid of those rough edges and stuff. So, yeah.

Drew Spears: Absolutely. And it’s like, well, it doesn’t show that it’s a UFO. It just—I mean, even if it’s not manipulated video, it just shows that that’s not manipulated video. But there’s nothing in the video where you’re like, “Well, that’s clearly a UFO or some sort of object.”

Carrie Poppy: Yeah, it’s the old God of the Gaps argument. I explained away one explanation, and the only thing left is God—or in this case, aliens. Yeah.

Ross Blocher: Yeah. And here I thought he was going to be making the point about when you do go in and try to blow these things out and adjust the exposure, the gamma, the saturation—that you’re going to be introducing elements yourself, that you’re taking something that is low information and trying to read into it. The visual equivalent of the EVP, the electronic voice phenomenon.

Drew Spears: Yeah. I think it’s one of those things where it’s like you gave them a new excuse to explain why you can’t just say something is manipulated. And instead of being like, “Well, it doesn’t confirm anything—”

Ross Blocher: Well, and that also reminds me of like the Cottingley Fairy photographs back in the early 1900s that Arthur Conan Doyle fell for. You know, they had photographic experts come in at the time and say, “These are not manipulated photographs.” It’s like, yeah. They’re real photographs of girls with cutouts of fairies. So, you could say something is not faked, and that might be true.

Drew Spears: Have you all talked about the casino photo yet?

Ross Blocher: (With interest.) No!

Drew Spears: I don’t think that’s worth it.

Carrie Poppy: Oh, the casino alien photo?

(Drew confirms.)

It came up in a different talk.

Drew Spears: It’s like that, where it’s just like, yes, there’s no visible artifacts when you’re showing me a printout of a printout of something that god knows where—it’s like I can’t hold up a piece of paper that’s like, you know, printed out on an inkjet printer and prove or disprove anything about how the original image was constructed.

Ross Blocher: Wait, which alien casino photo we’re talking about?

Drew Spears: This was one of like someone at a booth who was like just showing like photos that proves existence of aliens. And one was like a guy who like had like a kind of a big forehead that it could have been someone who had on makeup or someone who had—

Carrie Poppy: Yeah, so when Drew and I were coming out of a different talk, we walked up to a table, and someone had a binder of photos and printouts, like from an inkjet printer, of different supposed alien sightings. And then, if I recall correctly, wouldn’t let anyone take pictures of the binder. But one of them was a very grainy photo from far away of, you know, a sort of stereotypical alien-like head on a small person sitting at like a craps table, I believe. But it was so grainy and so far away, and the person was asking us like, “What else could it be?”

And we were both like, “I don’t know, it could be a person with like a genetic condition. I don’t know! This is from so far. It could be a person in a costume, there’s—you tell me! You brought me the photo!”

Ross Blocher: Yeah. How long do we want our imaginations to play here?

Drew Spears: Well, and also because it’s like on a piece of paper. It was presented as though it was security footage, but it had just that very generic like, oh, someone’s gonna put a security footage frame or sheen over a picture, so it just kind of looks that way. There was nothing that really suggested that it’s—you know how like nowadays people want to use the VHS aesthetic in like music videos and things like that? And they just have a lot of very obvious artifacting that like kind of only exists in like the 2024 version of VHS as seen through—

(Ross affirms.)

That’s what I kind of felt like this was.

Ross Blocher: Oh, okay. So, it sounds like, overall, Mr. M was giving good advice for just basic media production.

(Drew agrees.)

Well, that’s good. He did a favor, and he did it well. But he himself, it doesn’t sound like for all his expertise, is convinced of alien visitation on this planet.

Carrie Poppy: And by the way—UFO people, if you’re worried about increasing people’s confidence in you, the problem is not the lighting on the talking heads. Look elsewhere.

Drew Spears: But just real quickly, to argue the other side. If you do feel like you want to improve your production needs and go to a place where this could be all inclusive—

(Ross and Carrie laugh.)

There is a studio in Frogtown, Los Angeles, that—


You know, if you pay money and aren’t just a real bad person, I won’t question what you’re filming in there.

Carrie Poppy: (Applauding.) Drew Spears! Drew Spears, everybody!

Ross Blocher: Drew Spears Productions!

Drew Spears: Thanks for having me!

Carrie Poppy: Thank you, babe.

Ross Blocher: At least invite us if you do get any UFO clients. We’d be interested in partaking if they’re cool with it.

(Drew agrees.)

Alright! Thank you, Drew.

Carrie Poppy: Thank you, baaabe.

Drew Spears: (Off mic.) I’m gonna get out of y’all’s hair.

Ross Blocher: The lovely and talented Drew Spears.

Carrie Poppy: Yes! It’s almost our anniversary.

Ross Blocher: Okay! Which one are we coming up on? Wait, let me think. Four?

Carrie Poppy: (Muffled by not moving her lips.) You can’t tell by how my mouth is shaped when I was about to answer you?

Ross Blocher: Okay. You’re forming a—Carrie’s got her lips in a position of some letter, uh, twooo?

Carrie Poppy: That’s right, two! (Laughs.)

Ross Blocher: Hey! Two years! Hey, congratulations! (Claps.)

Carrie Poppy: Thank you, thank you. April 16th. And we are going to go stay at the Howard Johnson in Anaheim, because they have the Retro Future Suite there that’s based on the Monsanto House of Tomorrow from Disneyland.

Ross Blocher: Oh! Wow! Okay. I thought you were going to say, (salaciously) “’Cause that’s where we spent our first night together,” or something.

Carrie Poppy: (Adopting a Transatlantic accent.) Oh, the Howard Johnson! (Laughs.)

Ross Blocher: Well, my dad and stepmom go to Taco Bell once a year, ‘cause that was their first meal together.

Carrie Poppy: Aww! Oh, that’s lovely.

Ross Blocher: Yeah. So, that is their like anniversary habit.

Carrie Poppy: That’s cute. Our first date was a Dodger game. And so, we used to go to the Dodger game every year. And then finally I was like, “You know, I don’t really like it here. So, maybe I should speak up. Maybe I should say something about that.”

Ross Blocher: We don’t need to go through the formality of this difficult parking lot. Even though you live pretty close to Dodger Stadium now.

Carrie Poppy: Yeah, but it’s so hard to get into. And then there’s just a big crowd, and it’s loud, and you’re pushed, and you’re pulled, and then you gotta go to the bathroom, then you gotta find it, you gotta go to back and neh-neh-neh and then there’s all these—

Ross Blocher: And find the Veggie Dodger’s dog.

Carrie Poppy: Yes! And then everybody’s like, “They have the ball, and then they lose it again.”

Ross Blocher: We’ve gotten off topic, but I was a baseball fan growing up. And when my son was young, I wanted to give him at least the fighting chance to be a sports fan if he wanted to be. So, I would make sure we went to at least one ball game a year. And then we’d, you know, hit a few others. We’d do a basketball game. We’d do a hockey game. But haven’t in a long time. Makes me want to go back.

Anyways, we’re talking about aliens.

(Carrie laughs.)

So, this was I would say useful information for anybody who plans to produce media. So, that’s cool that Drew got to attend that.

Carrie Poppy: Yes. Perhaps the wrong focus, but yes.

Ross Blocher: (Laughs.) But when you lay out all of the talks in order of general usefulness, I would say that probably rose to the top. But you’re going to tell us about another talk, and let’s see where this lands in usefulness.

Carrie Poppy: (Laughing.) Okay! This one is by the extremely beautiful Caroline Cory. Do you remember her name?

Ross Blocher: I do, because our friend (dropping his voice) Jimmy Church has a little bit of a crush!

Carrie Poppy: I think so.

Ross Blocher: He wasn’t even being subtle about it.

Carrie Poppy: Yeah, not really.

Ross Blocher: It’s not like we’re spoiling a deep personal secret of his.

Carrie Poppy: No, he spoiled a deep personal secret of his.

Ross Blocher: He was openly hitting on her.

Carrie Poppy: Yes, at another event, yeah.

Ross Blocher: Okay, but she’s a figure in this world. And she’s a film producer?

Carrie Poppy: Let’s see what her bio says.

Ross Blocher: On Instagram it says, “Award winning filmmaker at CarolineCory_Films.”

Carrie Poppy: Okay. Yes. Her bio says, “Caroline is a filmmaker, futurist, and the visionary author of bestselling books on consciousness and energy medicine. After teaching energy medicine and consciousness work for over a decade, she founded Omnium Media. Caroline lectures and coaches internationally on various mind over matter subjects. Her film E.T. Contact won nine film awards and two nominations at festivals around the globe. Her latest film is Superhuman: The Invisible Made Visible”. She appears regularly as a guest expert on supernatural phenomena at major conferences and television shows, including History Channel’s popular series…”

Ross Blocher: Ancient Aliens?

Carrie Poppy: Ancient Aliens!

Ross Blocher: Of course! Oh, it’s such a tight knit group.

Carrie Poppy: Oh man, and she was in a lot of stuff. Let’s see. Workshop, luncheon, lecture, panel, awards banquet, panel, event, event, intensive.

Ross Blocher: And you mentioned Omnium. She’s the founder of the Omnium Method of Meditation and Consciousness Studies. So, I guess it’s ohm-nium method, because they capitalize the O-M. Ohmmmm-nium.

Carrie Poppy: Ah, right. Okay. But this talk was going to be telepathy, downloads, and nonhuman communication.

Ross Blocher: I’m here for it.

Carrie Poppy: And it was in the Endeavor Room. And I endeavored to get there. And it was soooo full.

Ross Blocher: Okay. That’s the same place where Danny Sheehan was giving his lawyerly talk that was overly full.

Carrie Poppy: Okay. There you go!

Ross Blocher: And I think they even expanded the room after he was there. So, this is now a larger room, and it’s still full!

Carrie Poppy: Still really full. She’s a popular speaker. So, at this time I had not heard of her before, but that talk title intrigued me, so I showed up by myself.


And I was glad I did! Because pretty near the top, she said that her mission is to bring science to the paranormal!

Ross Blocher: Hey! Okay, I’m down with the mission statement.

Carrie Poppy: That’s our mission! I was like ah! This is great!

Ross Blocher: (Singing.) Let’s get together. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Carrie Poppy: I was like, “Nothing’s going to go wrong.”

Ross Blocher: (Laughing.) Okay, yeah, well, that’s it for our show! I don’t want to ruin this. Uh, everything sounds so good.

Carrie Poppy: Let’s see what happens next! So, she said, “A lot of you have probably been to my talks before, but you will always get more information at each of my talks. Because you know, it’s not just about the talk itself, it’s about energy. We will be exchanging energy.”

Ross Blocher: Okay. So, there’s the content of my talk, and maybe you’ve heard me utter every single word of it before. But! There’s going to be an exchange of energy.

Carrie Poppy: There’s a liiiittle something extra.

Ross Blocher: Yeah. Okay. There’s some metaphysical quality just being in my presence.

Carrie Poppy: Yes. It’s like if Paul Thomas Anderson was like, “Carrie, I know you’ve seen Magnolia 35 times. But (getting higher and higher) if you watch it, I think you’ll notice just a liiiittle something extra!”

Ross Blocher: Could be.

Carrie Poppy: Could be. So, she’s going to be talking about information transfer, generally. And that might be telepathy, that might be downloads, that might be hearing voices, any kind of way that you get information in a non-obvious way.

Ross Blocher: Okay, not the senses that we all are aware of and agree upon. Okay.

Carrie Poppy: Right. So, information actually breaks down into—one, two, three, four—five levels, Ross. There’s the universal level, then the galaxy level, then the planetary level, then humanity, and then the self. And all information is nested like Russian nesting dolls. Ross is furrowing his brow like he’s—like, “Carrie, is this a metaphor or not a metaphor?”

Ross Blocher: Yeah, I’m trying to follow this. Okay, so we have—was it four or five levels?

Carrie Poppy: Yeah, level—I guess. I don’t think that a noun was given here. Just information breaks down from the universe, to the galaxy, to planetary, to humanity, to the self. And it’s like Russian dolls.

Ross Blocher: They fit within one another. Alright, it paints a picture of—I don’t know, it sounds to me a little bit like the flat earth shells of a firmament or something. Okay.

Carrie Poppy: Yeah, but we’re talking about information. So, I think she’s saying information can get from us all the way to the ETs, but first it has to go through this sort of repetition breakdown or language barrier process that breaks it down five times and distorts it.

Ross Blocher: Interesting. Okay!

Carrie Poppy: That’s how I interpret it.

Ross Blocher: Yeah. Alright. So, now I’m like hoping maybe she’ll talk about repeaters or a way to boost the signal as it moves from medium to medium.

Carrie Poppy: Mm. Are you hoping for that? Yeah.

Ross Blocher: I’m gearing myself for that. I don’t know.

Carrie Poppy: No, I mean, (stammering) just don’t get your hopes up. Things don’t get clearer.

Ross Blocher: That seems to gel with a quote of hers I just saw on her website. “If we want to create heaven on Earth, then the starting point must be heaven. Source: not Earth.” That quote would have been so better if she had just left out the word source.

Carrie Poppy: Also, that’s not true? Why would you start on heaven if you want to build something on Earth? Even if you want to build heaven on Earth. So, if I want to build Florida and California, I don’t start in Florida! You start in California, and try to make something that’s like Florida and California. So, you’d start on Earth to build heaven!

Ross Blocher: I mean, it feels like just classic deepity structure. Like, “I turned the expected on its head.”

Carrie Poppy: But guess what? It didn’t work!

Ross Blocher: Also, looking at her website, I see a series of pictures of her where she kind of looks like an age-progressed Taylor Swift. Like, I could imagine—

Carrie Poppy: Oh yeah, similar facial structure, yep. Uh-huh, yeah.

Ross Blocher: I can imagine Taylor Swift looking like that in 30 years.

Carrie Poppy: Yeah, I see that. Okay, so she’s gonna define a couple of terms for us, and maybe you’ve heard them before, maybe you haven’t. So, the first is telepathy. Have you heard of that?

Ross Blocher: Yeah. Tele, from far. Like television. Communication from afar.

Carrie Poppy: Her definition is “transfer of information and energy from one person to another”. And that was the first definition she gave. She will define telepathy lots of different ways throughout this talk, but that’s the first definition.

Ross Blocher: Yeah. That seems functional.

Carrie Poppy: Then she also defines the superconscious, which is when you feel like people walk into a room and the energy shifts, or you can feel the history of an object or a room. Or say you go to Ikea, and even though two sofas are identical, one draws you but the other doesn’t. These are all messages from the superconscious, which is shared between conscious beings.

Ross Blocher: Can’t it just be that we have complicated brains? But okay, okay.

Carrie Poppy: This reminded me of the Holothocene in the International Academy of Consciousness.

Ross Blocher: Mm! Yeah, totally. Yeah, and it has an element of psychometry, where you have ideas or memories that are tied to objects. Oh, let me touch the keys that belong to your deceased husband.

Carrie Poppy: Right. So, then she told us all that we are all sensitive, becaaause we are…


Ross Blocher: Carrie’s waiting for me to finish the sentence.

Carrie Poppy: (Laughs.) Oh, it’s just a claim that a lot of people make to us.

Ross Blocher: We are all psychics?

Carrie Poppy: Because—well, why am I psychic in particular?

Ross Blocher: We’re all intuitive? We are all—?

Carrie Poppy: Because I’m here.

Ross Blocher: Oh, in the room! Basking in the glory of the energy! Of course. Of course.

Carrie Poppy: (Laughs.) Yes, you wouldn’t show up to a conference like this unless you were special, Ross.

Ross Blocher: I was probably two rooms over, totally out of range.

Carrie Poppy: Yeah, okay. Well, so you weren’t sensitive enough to sense that you were sensitive. But we in the room, we knew. And she said if you’re here, if you’re even in this room, you are sensitive enough to do the work she’s going to be telling us about.

Ross Blocher: Oh, I love it when they say something like that! Because you and I are in the room. We’re like, “We qualified.”

Carrie Poppy: Whew! (Comically.) “I’m holding you to it!”

Ross Blocher: She could have said, “All of you are sensitive—wait, who are you? You’re not sensitive! I can see a mile away.” I mean, that would be impressive to me.

(Carrie agrees.)

Okay. But you’re one of them.

Carrie Poppy: Then she defined the subconscious. So, maybe you’ve heard of that one.

(Ross confirms.)

How would you define the subconscious?

Ross Blocher: Mental processes that don’t rise to a level that we would call consciousness, where we are observing those thoughts.

Carrie Poppy: Oh yeah, that’s a good definition. She said it’s a frequency that’s emitted from your belief structure. So, I can kind of take this as a metaphor. So, if you have preexisting beliefs, they’re sitting there in the soup of your mind. That’s your subconscious thoughts.

Ross Blocher: Okay. I’m liking that less.

Carrie Poppy: Oh, interesting! Okay. Interesting. Okay. But she said what you want is to get to a state of sending and receiving information all of the time, so that you can look directly at all levels of reality. So, aaall the way up to the extraterrestrial, universal reality. All the way through those Russian nesting dolls.

Ross Blocher: I feel Claude Shannon would have some thoughts on her information theory ideas.

Carrie Poppy: Claude Shannon?

Ross Blocher: Yeah, he’s the guy who kind of created the field of information theory and how we quantify information.

Carrie Poppy: Oh, cool. He sounds cool. She also said that the energy of her father is still with her, because he transferred his energy to her before he died. So, that was one of her examples. And she was like, “We’ve all felt this, of course.”

Ross Blocher: So, she got a little bit of an energy boost from her father. He left a piece of himself with her.

Carrie Poppy: And she will kind of like hear his voice or think of what advice he’d give her in certain situations, and she feels like that is his leftover energy.

Ross Blocher: Sounds very like Obi Wan like in Star Wars, where you’ve got the blue floating presence around you of whoever left. Or like Grandma Tala in Moana. She still sticks around like a manta ray and occasionally shows up, and she also glows blue.

Carrie Poppy: Or like Truly Madly Deeply, that movie from the ’90s.

Ross Blocher: Truly Madly Deeply. Wasn’t that the name of the song from Savage Garden?

Carrie Poppy: (Singing.) “I wanna stand with you on a mountain.” (Giggles.)

Ross Blocher: That was my song with my former girlfriend.

Carrie Poppy: No waaay!

(Ross confirms with a laugh.)

Shout out to Nikki. What up? Call in!

Ross Blocher: Oh, good memory!

Carrie Poppy: Thank you. Alright. So, telepathy. She defines it again. At 37 minutes in, she’s got to give us a new definition. Okay, telepathy is simply—

Ross Blocher: (Laughs.) Oh no. Okay, alright. (Takes a deep breath.) Hold on, hold on. I’ve got to find my seatbelt. Okay. Alright, I’m buckled in.

Carrie Poppy: (Laughs.) So, before you’ll remember that telepathy was the transfer of information from one person to another. Now it is defined as the transfer of information from one system to another.

Ross Blocher: Okay. So, we’ve just redefined ourselves as systems.

Carrie Poppy: But now that also could mean you have telepathy with a machine, a computer, a nonhuman entity.

Ross Blocher: Yeah. And hers was an open definition of telepathy. Like, when I quickly look it up, I see “the supposed communication of thoughts or ideas by means other than the known senses”. But she’s already just said any sort of transfer of information from one person to another. Now it’s any system to another.

Carrie Poppy: She—in her first definition, she did say that the usual senses weren’t involved. And she almost always mentions that the visual system isn’t involved. Which I’m always thinking, well, that—that doesn’t count. Like, I’m not doing telepathy with our listeners right now, even though they can’t see me. So, that’s not telepathy.

Ross Blocher: Right. Oh, okay. Right. And you know, even though they’re not standing in front of you at the moment, we can explain with known physics all of the intermediary steps that got your voice into their heads. But okay, if she said that, then I withdraw my objection, your honor.

Carrie Poppy: Oh, interesting. Okay. (Strained.) I don’t.

(They laugh.)

Okay! Then she said that you don’t want someone else’s energy stuck to you.

Ross Blocher: Sure.

(They laugh.)

Carrie Poppy: Maybe your dad’s, but no one bad, I guess? I don’t know. She was like, “You don’t want people’s energy stuck to you.” And I was like you just said your dad’s energy stuck to you, but okay.

Ross Blocher: Good point. Fair. Yeah.

Carrie Poppy: But you know, it was three minutes later, so she forgot. She said we’ve all been telepathic since birth. And she needs to show us all of this.


Because we need to be in charge of the human mind! You cannot create a life if you’re not clear, you see? She said.

Ross Blocher: Oh! (Gasps.) L Ron Hubbard agrees.

Carrie Poppy: She said “clear” a few times after that, and I started to wonder if there was any Hubbardian influence.

Ross Blocher: Maybe a term of art in the Ohmmm-nium Method of meditation. Interestinggg.

Carrie Poppy: She is going to mention it again, and we’ll see how it comes up again.

Ross Blocher: I’m still hung up on what you said about us all being telepathic from birth. ‘Cause I’m just thinking that would blunt our need to learn language if we’re already able to like kind of communicate on a thought level.

Carrie Poppy: (Chuckling.) Yeah, why develop that at all?

Ross Blocher: Which tells me either it is very weak an effect or—

Carrie Poppy: Yeah. Why do we spend like ages two to ten teaching kids like phonics if it’s that unnecessary?

Ross Blocher: Right! And you know, I remember videos of myself as a little kid. I remember being a little kid and being confused about words and language and everything like that. It seems like she’s making this implication that we have fully formed ideas at birth. I feel like that comes with what she’s saying, but okay.

Carrie Poppy: Oh yeah. I think so too. And she also said that she has worked in consciousness for 20 years. (Laughs.) I just love that line. “I’ve worked in consciousness for 20 years.” I was like yeah, me too, babe.

Ross Blocher: Minus the eight hours a night where I’m unconscious.

Carrie Poppy: (Laughing.) Yeah, exactly! I have also been awake and working for at least 20 years. 100% agree.

Ross Blocher: I feel like when I tell people about the Conscious Life Expo—different conference, but you’ve all heard us talk about it—one of the most common responses is for them to say, “I want to go to the Unconscious Life Expo!”

Carrie Poppy: (Laughs.) That’s fun. I do often think about how the Conscious Life Expo probably has a higher proportion of unconscious people in it than a normal conference, because they make you meditate, and people fall asleep!

Ross Blocher: Oh! Good point!

Carrie Poppy: It’s probably an abnormally unconscious expo.

Ross Blocher: But the name of the expo makes you wonder about the Unconscious Death Expo and, you know, various permutations of these words.

Carrie Poppy: Sure, sure. The Unconscious Death… Tiny Room?

(They laugh.)

Ross Blocher: Yeah, very tiny room.

Carrie Poppy: A tomb?! A guess a tomb is the opposite of the Conscious Life Expo. Okay. So, you’re probably thinking, “But Carrie—”

Ross Blocher: But Carrie—

Carrie Poppy: “Don’t we know that Caroline Cory is an alien? When are you going to drop the other shoe here?!”

Ross Blocher: Oh yeah! That’s true. We are burying the lede.

Carrie Poppy: I know. I know I did. But for first, I have to tell you about websites!



Carrie Poppy: And I know what you’re thinking.

Ross Blocher: Because you’re a telepath?

Carrie Poppy: Yes, you’re thinking, “But Carrie, isn’t Caroline Cory an alien? Didn’t we establish that before? When are you going to talk about it?” Well, not now!

Ross Blocher: You read my thoughts exactly. That’s crazy.

Carrie Poppy: Absolutely not now, because there’s a JUMBOTROOOON! (Makes trumpet noise.)

Ross Blocher: Jumbotroooon! From Spencer to Dusk.

Carrie Poppy: Great names.

(Ross agrees.)

And Spencer says, “Happy birthday to my favorite sibling, and I do have over zero.”

Ross Blocher: (Laughs.) Someone’s been listening to the show. “I’ll be overseas when you hear this, so I’m sure I’m missing the heck out of you. Since you re listen to ONRAC episodes so often, I figure you’ll stumble on this message a couple times.”

Carrie Poppy: “Here’s a reminder that I love you, and I’m proud of you. You’re a kind soul.”

Ross Blocher: “Your least favorite sister, Spencer.” Ohhh, that’s amazing.

Carrie Poppy: That’s so great.

Ross Blocher: Yeah. Happy birthday, Dusk!

Carrie Poppy: Happy birthday, Dusk.

Ross Blocher: Hope it’s a great one.

Carrie Poppy: Bet you may not listen to this on any day except your birthday. Let’s just ruin this for one person.

(They laugh.)

Ross Blocher: I’m trying to think like what penalties we can—

Carrie Poppy: Okay. Okay. I’m going to flip it. I’m going to flip it. Your birthday present is you can listen to this every day, except your birthday from here out.

Ross Blocher: Oh, from here out. Okay!

Carrie Poppy: Yeah. I’m not sure why.

Ross Blocher: We will not be monitoring this. Happy birthday!

Carrie Poppy: Happy birthday.


Music: Plucky, percussion-focused synth.

Speaker: Thanks to everyone who contributed during this year’s MaxFunDrive, we truly couldn’t do what we do without you. With the drive in the rearview, it’s time for another proud tradition: our annual charity pin sale! This year, the proceeds for the pin sale will support VoteRiders, a nonprofit dedicated to expanding ballot access nationwide.

Members at $10 a month or more can purchase MaxFunDrive pins featuring shows from across the network, and all members are able to buy our network pin design, exclusive to this charity sale. The sale is live now, and it ends Friday, April 12th. For more info, head to And thanks again for your support!

(Music fades out.)

Ross Blocher: Okay, so you were saying,

Carrie Poppy: I know what you’re thinking, Ross,

Ross Blocher: Again?

Carrie Poppy: You’re probably thinking, “But isn’t Caroline Cory an alien? When is the other shoe gonna drop?!”

Ross Blocher: Yeah. Okay. So, does she talk about this?

(Carrie confirms.)

She does so many things. She produces films. She starts meditation methods. And yeah, when did she discover she was an alien?

Carrie Poppy: Is she going to withhold this from us the entire talk!? No, she said it at minute three, but I withheld it from you! So, when she was five, Caroline had an alien experience.


Caroline Cory: So, for me, when I was five years old—this is me at age of five.

(An “aw” from the audience.)

(Chuckles.) And I was just there, and I was in my parents’ living room. And all of a sudden I felt the presence of these beings. It was more like light. It was just like the room was filled with light. But it felt like a group of beings, not just one. And as soon as that happened, I was kind of like—I felt like I was in that energy. I was completely emerged in that energy, and it felt like me and them were kind of the same thing. And that’s the reason why I could feel that there was more than one being.

And what happened was I noticed that we were exchanging information. Something was going back and forth. And this information came in the form of geometry. Everything was geometric. I saw myself as a geometric pattern, them as a geometric pattern. But I also saw that the information that was going back and forth was like coded information. It was like all little codes. So, it would be like this one teeny, little thing. And then it would kind of transfer from them to me. And then as—it was like a zip drive, and it was like as it would zip from them to me, it would unzip in my human mind, and it would translate into a human language. So, it wasn’t that they spoke English or French or what have you. They spoke in these codes, geometric codes. But my human brain would then translate it into an entire sentence or what have you.

And so, basically what they said was that, you know, this is who we are, this is who you are. We have been connected; you will continue to stay connected for the rest of your life. And they said—


“Look at what your brain is doing right now.” And so, you know, I’m five years old, right? I don’t know. So, I’m just focusing very intently on what my brain was doing. They said, “Because if you want to communicate with us again, you’ll have to do exactly that.” And so, I wasn’t sure what that was, but all I know is that they were basically teaching me intention. They were teaching me to focus on something and ask for it, as opposed to it just happening spontaneously. Does that make sense?

And so, I said, “This is what I want. I want this for the rest of my life.” And more importantly, it felt like we were one and the same. It’s almost like I was on this side of the veil in human form, and they were on this side—the other side of the veil—as kind of like my own stream of consciousness. It was super cool.


Ross Blocher: That’s quite a long message for a five-year-old.

Carrie Poppy: (Laughs.) True. Yeah, so she was laying in her bed, and her room filled with light, and then she had the sense of beings. It doesn’t sound like she saw beings, but she had the sense of their presence.

Ross Blocher: Yeah, and then identified as being one of them herself.

Carrie Poppy: So, she doesn’t say that here, that I caught anyway. But later she says that she’s known since she was three that she was an alien, so she has at least layered on that analysis since.

Ross Blocher: I get a sense of a European accent from her.

Carrie Poppy: Oh yeah, she has an accent, yeah. I’m not sure where she’s from. Well, obviously, another planet.

Ross Blocher: Touché. While I was listening to that I was trying to see if I could find anything with her talking about where she was raised. Yeah, I guess Northern Europe.

Carrie Poppy: Pluto. Why’d I pick Pluto? Now I have to get three emails about whether Pluto’s planetary.

(Ross laughs.)

Okay, yeah, so she did have some kind of experience. Awfully early to remember so much, but maybe.

Ross Blocher: Immediately I think where along the timeline did she start talking about it this way? Because I’m feeling, if we talk to her at nine, that’s probably not the same narrative we would have gotten, if any.

Carrie Poppy: Did you ever read any of those, “I went to heaven, and I’m a little boy” books?

Ross Blocher: Yeah. I read one of them, and they had such similar titles that I’m now not confident.

Carrie Poppy: Yeah, like Heaven’s My Buddy, Heaven is Real

Ross Blocher: The Boy That Went to Heaven.

Carrie Poppy: Yeah, yeah. I Died and Came Back and Now My Daddy Made Me Write This Book.

(They laugh.)

Ross Blocher: Which is the true title of all of them.

Carrie Poppy: Yeah. Yeah. One of them—oh, I forget the kid’s name. He has a crazy name. It’s—I want to say Dalton Trumbo, but that’s the guy from the Red Scare. No, but there is one little boy—Peter Bobo or like Kevin Buttshit.

(Ross laughs.)

It’s like a crazy name.

Ross Blocher: Oh, this is the one I read. Heaven is for Real. Burpo. You’re thinking of—

Carrie Poppy: Colton Burpo! Yeah. Colton Burpo. It’s an insane name.

(Ross cackles.)

Anyway, he supposedly went to heaven, came back. But I read his book, and it’s totally just the dad like puuushing this interpretation on him.

Ross Blocher: It’s such a silly book. Yeah, yeah.

Carrie Poppy: Anyway, if you do start talking to aliens, Ross, don’t get the impression that they’re all good. Because Caroline lets us know that there are some that are benevolent, but there are also some that are just entities floating around trying to mess with you!

Ross Blocher: Fair. Yeah. Of the nine tall white species, only three are known to cooperate with humans I learned from Linda Moulton Howe.

(They laugh.)

Carrie Poppy: Exactly, exactly. We need a flow chart just to make this all make sense, and then we can die.

Ross Blocher: Ugh, it’s sooo complicated. ‘Cause every time like Whitley comes along, it’s like, “Oh, there’s little blue guys now? Where do I put them on my chart?”

Carrie Poppy: Do you think we’ll have to have our graves next to each other just so we can have like a big enough flow chart just explaining everything as we finally understood it?

Ross Blocher: Oh!

Carrie Poppy: Just like with general semantics on one end and then all the way over to Scientology or whatever on the other end. And we’re like, “Well, we did it. We’re dead now.”

Ross Blocher: This sounds like a good stretch goal for our final MaxFunDrive. Help us design these tombstones! The world must know!

Carrie Poppy: Okay. So, when the aliens did come to her, they taught her to focus on her intention. “Because you can just call these experiences in once you know how to do them,” she says.

Ross Blocher: Of all the things to communicate, you’re an alien species from trillions of miles away, and you’re like, (gently) “Let me teach you about intentions.” I’m just trying to picture myself like—

Carrie Poppy: “You’ve gotta have—do you have goals?”

Ross Blocher: Riding on the back of my planet’s resources, I get shunted halfway across the Milky Way. I don’t know, however far I’m going. And then I find this other planet. I’m like, “I need to teach them about intentions! Focusing on their intentions.”

Carrie Poppy: “I’m gonna tell them about to do lists.”

Ross Blocher: “This is a good use of resources!” (Laughs.) But okay.

Carrie Poppy: (Giggling.) Yeah, let’s try to picture us doing that. Like, all this effort we’ve done into like getting to Mars. We get there and we’re like, (panting) “We brought our planners! Here it is!”

Ross Blocher: “We almost burned up in the atmosphere. I’m so glad we made it.”

Carrie Poppy: “We figured out calendars. Do you want one?! You gotta plan! You gotta have intention!


(Desperately.) You gotta have a goal!”

Ross Blocher: “Now that we’re here, you need to learn to live with each other. Don’t fight! Don’t fight!”

Carrie Poppy: “Like we did!” (Panting heavily.)

(They laugh.)

Yeah, probably didn’t go that way. Okay. So, then she also defined the term download.

Ross Blocher: Which we’ve heard at least as of the Ozark Mountain UFO Conference; I remember download was a big theme there.

Carrie Poppy: Okay. So, that’s this idea that you just suddenly have certainty, or you suddenly have information, and you don’t feel like you cobbled it together.

Ross Blocher: You’re not the owner of the information. That couldn’t have come from me!

Carrie Poppy: Right. Because I didn’t author it somehow.

Ross Blocher: Yeah. Which seems to be a real phenomenon.

Carrie Poppy: I hadn’t—I think I’ve told you that time I looked in our backyard, and I just thought, “Drew’s going to build a toy train back here. Mm.”

Ross Blocher: Yeah, and you felt so sure, and it didn’t feel like you were the author of that thought.

Carrie Poppy: Yeah, it just appeared.

Ross Blocher: It just appeared unbidden in your consciousness.

Carrie Poppy: Out of nowhere. And then I told you, I’ve recently been like, “I think I might just be into trains.”

Ross Blocher: “Maybe I just want a train.”

Carrie Poppy: Maybe I like trains, and Drew’s a boy. So, I was like, Drew will like the trains! Anyway. Okay, then synchronicity. That’s when two events appear to be related without obvious cause. And I thought, yes, exactly! That’s right! But no, she’s saying—

Ross Blocher: That’s a fair definition.

Carrie Poppy: It is, in isolation. But then she’s like, you know, “It appears to be related without obvious cause!”

Ross Blocher: “There are no coincidences.”

Carrie Poppy: “There are no appearings!” Yeah, yes. Exactly. Then she defines telepathy again. That’s interpreting information and energy through the senses without vision.

Ross Blocher: Three definitions of telepathy already?

Carrie Poppy: Yep. Don’t worry, I wrote all of them down. But this time, you just don’t need to have vision. So, deaf people—great news, you’re telepaths! Oh no, wait. Nooooo! Blind people, you’re telepaths. Congrats.

Ross Blocher: There we go.

Carrie Poppy: And then she said, “And I bet a lot of you have experienced this kind of thing, because I tend to attract audiences who experience these kinds of things.” Yeah.

Ross Blocher: Yes. And I would say that’s more than a mere synchronicity.

Carrie Poppy: Yeah. And I’m not sure I want you to be the person collecting those experiences on your own.

Ross Blocher: But yes, we are here at the Contact in the Desert. Yes. You do tend to draw these audiences. Correct.

Carrie Poppy: And then she said—oh my goodness, she told this story. She’s like, “Have you ever had this happen? One time I was at work, and I had this new boss, and I could tell he didn’t like me. And he was giving me too much work, and I was really struggling. And then as I was leaving his office, I heard him say, ‘I’m going to do this until you quit!’”

(Ross “woah”s.)

And she turns around, and his mouth is full of coffee.

Ross Blocher: So, he’s a ventriloquist!

Carrie Poppy: Because she had actually heard his thoughts. Can you imagine the scene? Can you imagine? You’re like, “Hey, Caroline, can you take care of this paperwork?”

And then she turns around, and she’s like, “I heard that!” And you’re coughing now?

Ross Blocher: (Cackles.) “I’m sorry, what did you hear?” Huh.

Carrie Poppy: So, anyway. It was a wild story. And then she’s like, “Has anyone had this?” And I don’t think anyone raised their hand. ‘Cause it was—I was like had what? Had the experience where I thought my boss said something with coffee in his mouth?!

Ross Blocher: No, I would imagine more generally overhearing somebody’s thoughts.

Carrie Poppy: (Sighs.) It’s not familiar to me.

Ross Blocher: As an auditory phenomenon. Which I feel like there are many conscious states where we know people can hear auditory phenomena without actually having a real-world equivalent.

Carrie Poppy: Yeah. Yeah. Without this speaker having produced anything. Yeah. Have you ever had the “your name in the wind” phenomenon or your name in rushing water?

Ross Blocher: Oh, no, I haven’t. You have?

Carrie Poppy: Oh, okay. I have.

(Ross “woah”s.)

Mostly I have it in water. If I like turn on the bathtub, sometimes especially I’ll hear my mom going like, (softly) “Carrie! Carrie!” Yeah. It’s just water. (Laughs.)

Ross Blocher: Well, I’m glad you realize that.

Carrie Poppy: Yes, I do. But thanks for keeping track.

Ross Blocher: Well, and knowing these things in advance is helpful, too. Hearing about sleep paralysis before you experience it is much better than hearing about it after you’ve experienced it.

Carrie Poppy: Yes, 100%. Yep.

Ross Blocher: You’ve all been warned. (Whispers.) Jonathan.

Carrie Poppy: Okay. Okay. And then she said, “There are also those voices that interrupt your thoughts, you know?” And I thought, (clicks teeth) nope, I don’t. I don’t. I don’t. But that’s a specific experience some people have. But—

Ross Blocher: Yeeeah. I feel like we might have another situation kind of like with Whitley Strieber, where we suspect there are some mental conditions that are contributing to real phenomena that are being interpreted through a very specific filter.

Carrie Poppy: Yes. I think you’re going to feel that way even more. So, next she talked about how she often wakes up feeling depressed and as if she is inside a washing machine. So, just so keyed up and depressed at the same time.

Ross Blocher: Ohh, oh no. Oh, poor Caroline.

Carrie Poppy: And then later she talked about being able to see geometric shapes around her.


It actually reminded me of Teal Swan.

Ross Blocher: With her vibration—frequency vibrations.

Carrie Poppy: Her frequency paintings.

Ross Blocher: Yeah, frequency paintings.

Carrie Poppy: Yeah, of course. So, yeah, and this also reminded me of—in my class that I’m taking right now on psychosis, there was a writer with schizophrenia who also sees fractals just sort of randomly in their fields of vision. And then she also talks about—I’ve experienced this phenomenon where you’re kind of not sure about what to do or how to interpret something. And then you go to sleep, and you wake up like, “Oh, that’s totally clear now,” because your brain has like organized the information for you.

So, she talks about that. I’ve certainly had that.

Ross Blocher: All of this sounds very human. Maybe outside the normal range of experience, but still heard of. And human. So, yeah, still waiting for this alien shoe to drop.

Carrie Poppy: A few things I wrote down in my code red section of my notebook. So, she said she can use remote sensing to determine if a boyfriend is cheating.

Ross Blocher: Oh no!

Carrie Poppy: This sounds like a bad service to offer.

Ross Blocher: This has got to be great for relationships. Oh no.

Carrie Poppy: The boyfriend? (Laughs.) Yeah. It reminds me of someone I knew back when I was working in animal rights. I knew someone who claimed she could talk to dogs and cats, and she told me that she interviewed this cat who explained to the guardian that the family dog had been murdered by the husband.

Ross Blocher: Oh no! Uh-oh. It’s all fun and games until you accuse someone of murder.

Carrie Poppy: Yeah! And then she’s like, “But you know, it really gave her peace.” And I’m like, how?! HOW?!

Ross Blocher: Oh no!

Carrie Poppy: How did it give her peace? By kicking out her husband? That’s all I could think of! I’m not keeping a husband who strangles my dog!

Ross Blocher: Or did she say, “Thank you. That gives me peace,” just to make her stop talking about it?

Carrie Poppy: (Laughs.) Yeah, that’d be great.

Ross Blocher: I might do that.

Carrie Poppy: And then I’m the only person still worked up as I hear the story.

Ross Blocher: What is a nice way to make this stop?

(Carrie laughs.)

Okay, I just found on her LinkedIn page she mentions that she speaks both English and French with native or bilingual proficiency. Oh, and Japanese as well! Maybe she’s from France or Belgium or Canada.

Carrie Poppy: Canada. And she also said that people can pass off their beliefs to you, and then those become energy that live inside of your body and may affect your health outcomes. For example, if your parent has heart disease, and they communicate to you that your heart disease risk is high, and you start to think that, then you might start having symptoms of heart disease.

Ross Blocher: Couldn’t be genes.

Carrie Poppy: But it’s not really heart disease, Ross! You just need to get clear. You just need to get clear. Cleeear.

Ross Blocher: Okay, clear, yep, I’m getting the key word there. This also sounds Christian Science like as well. Like, oh, it’s all just in your mind. You’re not actually catching a disease; you’re catching this mind corruption. And you just need to be—well, as she seems to be all about—mind over matter.

Carrie Poppy: Kimberly Meredith is also into this.

Ross Blocher: It makes me so uncomfortable though, ‘cause it’s so victim blamey. You know, when things happen, it’s like, “Oh, you’re just not thinking right,” instead of acknowledging we’re made out of molecules, and they do things that we don’t have control over.

Carrie Poppy: And waste all your time and money. Yeah. Then she said that 99.9% of diseases are attached to someone else’s belief, and she can treat that by having you do a special envisioning exercise. (Chuckles.)

(Ross groans.)

You can do her exercise every day to treat your chronic illness.

Ross Blocher: Oh, man. And probably part of her Ohm-nium universe.

Carrie Poppy: Program. Yeah. And finally, on my code red section, she said that mental illness is not real.

Ross Blocher: Oh nooo! Because that was kind of what I was suspecting for a lot of the things she was describing.

Carrie Poppy: Well, wrong!

The last thing I want to tell you about—Ross—though, is that she described what I think was a paranormal test. But I couldn’t quite follow the story she was telling. And I thought you know what? Ross has seen a lot of paranormal tests, maybe if I play him this audio, he’ll have some idea what she’s describing.

Ross Blocher: Okay.


Caroline Cory: So, we did (inaudible) experiments on camera trying to move a physical object. Actually, we did a bunch of experiments, and it was very interesting. Because as I was connecting, for example, the DNA sample—which is an organic substance, right? My energy was being transferred—right?—to the DNA, and it was like instantaneous. It was as soon as—actually, it was even before I set my intentions, it’s almost like the DNA already knew what I wanted it to do. It was insane. The scientists were like—as soon as I would look at it and just like 400% it would like increase, it would change. To change the chemistry of the water, it took a little longer. But then when we—the very first time, we tried the telekinesis exercise.


So, basically we were trying to move a paper. And so, the paper, it was a spiral at the time. And I remember it very well. So, I—just like the normal thing I would do. I would project my energy and, you know, ask it to rotate or something like that. And the first time, I felt that it talked back at me. It said, “I don’t want to rotate.”

I was like, “Excuse me? Where did this come from?”


You know, and then it was such a huge lesson, you know! Because I’m extremely sensitive, obviously. I can feel those energies very clearly. And so, like what just happened here? You know, because the organic substances would just respond. And this thing was like telling me, “Well, maybe I don’t want to rotate in this direction. I want to rotate in the other direction.” It was like—so, we’re having like this argument.


I’m like, “I want you to rotate in this direction.” So anyway, it was a huge learning experience. But what that taught me is that piece of paper—which is human made, right?—like a piece of furniture had absorbed information, energy. And this energy was retained even though this was not a live person. Does that make sense? So, I was picking up the information that was stored in this piece of paper. Think about that. If you can do that from a piece of paper, a piece of furniture, don’t you think you can pick up information from a live person who lives with you 24/7? Hello! Right? So, that’s my point.


Carrie Poppy: So, that’s her point!

(Ross “oh no”s.)

So, that’s her point. Did you follow that?

Ross Blocher: Yeah, I did.

Carrie Poppy: You did?! Okay, I have a guess. Wow. First time through you followed that. Okay. So, I think she was trying to prove some sort of paranormal ability. The test was not working for her. She had a little workaround that was like, “Actually, if you think about it, it’s not working because it’s working.”

Ross Blocher: No, that’s exactly what she’s saying.

Carrie Poppy: Okay. (Laughs.) Okay. And what test is she talking about?!

Ross Blocher: Okay. Well, she was jumping uncontrollably between multiple tests.

(Carrie laughs.)

Some that involved DNA manipulation, and then one that involved moving a physical object—which is where she started. And then there was some other bit about changing the chemical structure of water?

Carrie Poppy: Yeah! DNA went into something.

Ross Blocher: I think this is the sloppiest, free-for-all test that just has things all over the table. (Laughs.) Or she’s conflating a few different stories into one. But it seems like the main one is that there was something—I’m guessing it’s kind of like a pinwheel, like a piece of paper either suspended on a string or on a stick or something.

Carrie Poppy: Or a top or something, yeah.

Ross Blocher: Yeah, something that—she said it’s a spiral. So, I’m guessing it’s something that could be turned around. If we were testing somebody with a paper like that for the CFIIG testing, we would put it inside of a bell jar, so they couldn’t like be blowing on it. But even then, usually these are things that are very sensitive to just slight movements of air, water, currents. You know, ‘cause oftentimes it’ll be like a floating toothpick, or a paperclip suspended on the surface of water. Something that is very impressionable. And they’ll feel like they’ve proven their abilities before by manipulating this.

Carrie Poppy: But it’s actually like their breath, and they don’t realize it or something like that?

Ross Blocher: Right. Or just the room moving things and then them telling themselves narratives after the fact that, “Oh, actually—”

Carrie Poppy: “I was the cause.”

Ross Blocher: Right. “Actually did what I wanted it to. And it’s so funny, because you told me to turn it to the right, but right as it turned left, I thought left!” You know, or something like that. And that’s precisely what she’s doing in this clip, which is saying, “Oh, and you know, I was trying to make it turn, but it wanted to go the other way! And then I realized, oh, there’s somebody else’s intention in the piece of paper, because it’s a man-made object. And so, just like me receiving the personage of my father telepathically, this piece of paper is also holding onto somebody’s energy and oh, I’m tapping into their personality.”

That’s what she was doing. She was making excuses. That’s what we call that in the biz.

Carrie Poppy: (Laughs.) Yeah. Special pleading. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I thought it was basically that, but I’m glad you could decipher that. Sort of. I mean, she jumped uncontrollably.

Ross Blocher: Yeah. And I’d love to talk to these scientists that she worked with.

Carrie Poppy: Yeah. So, she said it was on camera. So, I think we should go find that sometime and take a look. Maybe let our listeners know what’s in there.

Ross Blocher: Yeah. Maybe reach out to her and ask her if she can point us to this recording.

Carrie Poppy: Oh yeah! Good idea. I’ll email her. I’ll do that. And that was it. Oh, well, actually that’s not true. Then she led everyone in a meditation, but I reeeally had to pee. So, I left.

Ross Blocher: Oh yeah. I see that with her Omnium Method, or Ohm-nium Method I’m hoping she pronounces it. “It’s a revolutionary healing technique that allows the spontaneous alignment of the physical cells in the human energy field with the universal source frequency, and provides an instant and permanent cellular reprogramming!”


But then that leads down to her connecting to source meditation. So, maybe it was one of those. So, did she actually not say that she was an alien in the course of this talk?

Carrie Poppy: I don’t think she did. Though, like I say, I left right as the meditation began. So, possible that in the middle of that, she’s like, “I’m an alien. And I’m going to walk you through.”

Ross Blocher: So, clearly she contains multitudes. I would love to kind of latch on to the timeline of her claims. Because I’m going to guess—I’m going to venture that the “I’m an alien” claim came later than the other claims and relatively recently. Because I feel like it’s becoming a trend. There’s a lot more people who are like, “Actually, not only do I talk to the aliens, I ammmm an alien!”

Carrie Poppy: “I am one, and I always knew that actually, if you think about it.” Yeah, I think that’s right. And yeah, even if it were when she was nine, I’d believe it more than when she was five. Just because by then you’ve encountered alien media.

Ross Blocher: It feels like just another personage that we’ve encountered who blends so many of these ideas together in her own unique package. And you get—

Carrie Poppy: And boy, is it a beautiful package. Do you know what I’m saying, Jimmy? Do you know?

Ross Blocher: (Laughs.) Yeah. I mean, pretty lady.

(Carrie laughs.)

And it comes with all of these features like, A) aliens, but also B) multiple species of aliens, and C) aliens that are both good and bad. But also D) telepathy and inner thought communication. And just like all of these little features that you line up. Kind of like, I don’t know, you’re going to buy a car or something. And you’re like, “Does it have air conditioning?”

Like, yes, we do have reincarnation or whatever it is.

Carrie Poppy: Oh, yes. You’re saying all of these different speakers that we go to, they all have their various menu item takes on the different stuff.

(Ross confirms.)

Yeah, that’s true. I feel like we could make—(sighs) I wish I had been doing it this whole time, but I feel like we could make the most glorious spreadsheet of every—(laughs) every speaker and just like, “Well, what did they say about God? What did they say about the afterlife? Do animals go to heaven?” Et cetera.

Ross Blocher: Yeah. And in certain aspects of her speech, she also feels very TwinRay to me, where she’s willing to say things like reading off of her website about her method. That one sentence had spontaneous alignment, physical cells, human energy field, universal source frequency, instant and permanent cellular reprogramming—all in one sentence. There’s just so many ideas.

Carrie Poppy: Permanent! Like, can she even believe—? I guess she must believe that, but it’s just like (stammering) how did you determine that?

Ross Blocher: And we run into so many people who have these heartfelt stories about reprogramming DNA. And like, she was in that clip talking about like seeing it grow 400% or something. What are you even looking at?!

Carrie Poppy: The DNA is going from her body to the paper?

Ross Blocher: Is this DNA that’s been extracted, and you’re looking at it through a microscope? Is it part of a living organism?

Carrie Poppy: Is it your sweat? Is it your skin? ‘Cause you touched the paper? ‘Cause if so, that’s not that interesting.

Ross Blocher: What do you think you are perceiving? I would like to know.

Carrie Poppy: And if your telepathy is that weak that the tiniest whiff of you being near something makes it unusable, I’m not that impressed. I already have language and stuff that’s very good at communicating.

Ross Blocher: Oh, I see that her guided meditation technique, Connecting to Source, has a copyright. Connecting to Source, copyright.

Carrie Poppy: (Laughs.) I guess she’s the source.

Ross Blocher: “That entrains your body with the universal source frequency organically.” (Sighs.) Yeah. I mean, when I hear—I’m still looking at this website with the Omnium Method. “This short and effective meditation is then followed by cellular reprogramming, which is accomplished through a combination of intent, light, sound, and divine geometry, grid, and universal calibration, zero-point gravity pull, time suspension, among other means.”

When I hear people put together sentences like this, I feel like the only way that I could do that is if I was intentionally trying to bamboozle people, blind people with science-sounding terms. And I have a really hard time putting my mind in the headspace of someone who feels this legitimately, like thinks that they’re telling the truth, and this is the best way to describe it.

Carrie Poppy: Interesting. I can buy it. I can, but I mean only on an intuitive level. I couldn’t defend it.

Ross Blocher: Maybe it is just like a sense of these words do a good job of approximating the feeling that I have when I talk about these phenomena.

Carrie Poppy: Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s right.

Ross Blocher: I’m trying to put myself in a charitable state of mind where I can see her honestly putting this together and saying, “Okay, here’s what we’re doing with this meditation.”

Carrie Poppy: Mm-hm. Yeah, I think that’s right, but I’m sure there are lots of people who are not going about it that way.

Ross Blocher: It’s enough to get you a speaker position at a UFO conference. Contact in the Desert.

Carrie Poppy: Yeah, and the eye of Jimmy Church.

Ross Blocher: No kidding.

Carrie Poppy: Well, that is it for Caroline Cory. I hope we run into her again. I really wasn’t aware of her until this talk.


Ross Blocher: And she was at the Conscious Life Expo and I’m pretty sure at the previous Contact in the Desert. I’d have to look through my records. I think she was presenting a film then. One of her movies.

Carrie Poppy: Okay. Oh, interesting. Okay.

Ross Blocher: I think that might be the first time I saw her. But yeah, part of the community.

Carrie Poppy: Part of the community.

Ross Blocher: Someone we’re going to be encountering, I’m sure, again and again.

Carrie Poppy: And Caroline, if you hear this, come on the show! We’d love to meet you.

Ross Blocher: Absolutely. Alright. Well, that’s it, I think, for this episode of Oh No, Ross and Carrie!.

Carrie Poppy: Our theme music is by Brian Keith Dalton.

Ross Blocher: Our administrative manager is Ian Kremer.

Carrie Poppy: You can support this and all our investigations by going to It’s a weird time to pick. But it’s also a perfect time to pick, because MaxFunDrive just ended, and it’s a year away. So, why not support us now and then email us and tell us you did. And then we’ll say, “Wow, good job.”

Ross Blocher: Yeah, do that. We’ll thank you, because we are truly thankful for all of your support. And if you joined or upgraded at the $10 level, the pin sale is going on. And you probably heard an ad for that a little earlier in this episode. So, buy those pins. They’re awesome.

Carrie Poppy: Buy them pins! And the pin sale this year, the money goes to VoteRiders, who are protecting the right to vote.

Ross Blocher: Huzzah!

Carrie Poppy: Yeah, love it.

Ross Blocher: So, get some cool looking pins and help rock the vote.

Carrie Poppy: That’s right.

Ross & Carrie: And remember:


Music: Funky, high-energy synth.

Caroline Cory: You are witnessing children reading and playing completely blindfolded.

Child: The other dragons were purple with smooth, shiny scales.

Caroline Cory: It might seem like a magic trick. And when I first saw it, I thought the same thing. This can’t be true. But what if I told you that you too can train yourself to see without your physical eyes?

Speaker: Dumbo! (Inaudible.)

Carline Cory: Anyone can do this. And if we can train our brains to see with a blindfold on, then we can also cultivate this higher power to make our brain do just about anything. So, how do we do it? There are a few different methodologies that all achieve the same result, because they’re based on the same principle: if you believe it, you can achieve it.


Music: “Oh No, Ross and Carrie! Theme Song” by Brian Keith Dalton. A jaunty, upbeat instrumental.


Griffin McElroy: (Dramatically.) From the twisted minds that brought you The Adventure Zone: Balance. And Amnesty, and Graduation, and Ethersea, and Steeplechase, and Outrespace, and all the other ones—the McElroy brothers and dad are proud to reveal a bold vision for the future of actual play podcasting!

It’s, um—it’s called The Adventure Zone vs. Dracula.

Music: High energy, gothic-inspired harpsichord music.

Justin McElroy: Yeah, we’re gonna kill Dracula’s ass.

Travis McElroy: We’re gonna—well, we’re gonna attempt—we haven’t recorded all of it yet. We will attempt to kill Dracula’s ass.

(Wolf howl.)

Justin: The Adventure Zone vs. Dracula.

Griffin: Yes, a season I will be running using the D&D 5th edition rule set. And there’s two episodes out for you to listen to right now. We hope you will join us. Same bat-time, same bat-channel.

Clint McElroy: (Amused.) Bats, I see what you did there.

(Music fades out.)

Transition: Cheerful ukulele chord.

Speaker 1: Maximum Fun.

Speaker 2: A worker-owned network.

Speaker 3: Of artist owned shows.

Speaker 4: Supported—

Speaker 5: —directly—

Speaker 6: —by you!

About the show

Welcome to Oh No, Ross and Carrie!, the show where we don’t just report on fringe science, spirituality, and claims of the paranormal, but take part ourselves. Follow us as we join religions, undergo alternative treatments, seek out the paranormal, and always find the humor in life’s biggest mysteries. We show up – so you don’t have to. Every week we share a new investigation, interview, or update.

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