Transcript
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
jesse thorn
Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorn. We're in chambers this week, clearing the docket. And with me as always is the Barbecue King of Brooklyn, New York— [John laughs.] —Judge John Hodgman.
john hodgman
That's not anywhere near—well, maybe—no, not anywhere near true!
jesse
[Laughs.] There's a lot of barbecue—
john
Yeah!
jesse
As soon as I said that out loud, I remembered that the food trend of Brooklyn eight years ago was barbecue restaurants.
john
Yeah, yeah, yeah! They realized—[laughs] that if you put a brisket in a smoker for a day, it becomes money. Like, it's—
jesse
Yeah. [Both laugh.]
john
Like, people in Brooklyn will line up for days to eat Texas-style smoked brisket. And it's not—there are so many places now, it's—there is no Barbecue King! This is a barbecue Game of Thrones over here! [Jesse laughs.] There's just so many kings!
jesse
As we record this, we can see each other from across the nation thanks to the magic of Internet.
john
Yeah.
jesse
And, uh, you're wearing a Fox Barbecue hat—
john
That's right.
jesse
—from Atlanta, Georgia, that was a gift to us when we performed in Atlanta!
john
That's right! Our friend Chuck Bryant from the Stuff You Should Know podcast dropped by with some really nice barbecue before our Atlanta show. This was back during the before times, when we could meet each other and eat in front of each other.
jesse
Yeah, and hug Chuck Bryant.
john
And, uh—and hug Chuck Bryant. But that's an—and by the way, that's a top—that's one of the top hugs.
jesse
Yeah, it's a dream hug.
john
And he gave us both Fox Brothers Barbecue baseball hats. And I was saying to you before we started recording, I'm quite fond of it, even though it's a low hat. I've got a—I like a hat with a—I like a baseball hat with a lotta height.
jesse
Yeah.
john
I—you know, I grew—I—
jesse
A ten-gallon baseball hat.
john
Yeah, ten-gallon baseball hat! Because unless I've got a high hat on, my hair is limp. And it's—looks painted on. And then my round Charlie Brown face looks terrible. Unless I have a little height on my hat, and a little length in my beard. And then I—finally I have a rectangular face.
jesse
You're a very handsome guy, Judge Hodgman.
john
You—hey, you know what? You're very handsome. Jennifer Marmor, I can see you as well. Look, physical beauty is nothing compared to who we are inside. Especially now that I've been eating so much Biscoff Butter. [Jesse laughs.] You know about Biscoff Butter, you guys?
jesse
[Laughing] That's—that's like a cookie spread?
john
Yeah! Yeah, remember when we used to be able to fly around the country to go places? And—
jesse
Sure.
john
Yeah. And sometimes on the airplane, especially if you flew Delta, which I did, they'd hand you European Biscoff Cookies?
jesse
Sure, they're tasty cookies.
john
Yeah. Turns out they sell it as a butter. Jennifer Marmor, did you know that? [Pause.] She's nodding.
jesse
She's nodding yes.
john
We would—look. If it weren't for what's going on in the world, I would never have been able to see Jennifer Marmor nod. So that's a—that's a plus. [John and Jesse laugh.] Anyway, a lot of Biscoff Butter in our house right now. Jesse, it's so nice to see you! And to talk to you. Because as of this day, this recording... we, the Judge John Hodgman podcast program, is a Webby Award Winner!
jesse
Congratulations to we.
john
[Laughs.] Congratulations to we, all of us! And thank you very much to you, the Webbys, and to you listeners and litigants and expert guests and supporters and guest bailiffs and everyone else, and sponsors! I happened to have a different teleconference during the Webby Awards. So— [Both laugh.] So I had to send in Tom Hanks to accept it for me.
jesse
Sure.
john
Oh, that would have been a great gag. Why didn't I think about that? I couldn't get Tom Hanks, but I betcha I could've gotten Nick Offerman to do it.
jesse
Yeah.
john
Shoot. Well, maybe next year. But meanwhile, Jesse Thorn, I'm here in my chambers and I'm crawling out of this huge swag bag that the Webbys sent me! [Jesse laughs.] Did you get one?
jesse
I—no, I didn't get a swag bag!
john
Ughhh, I'm so mad at them! The—I mean, the Webby gift bag... you know, they talk about the Oscar gift bag being pretty lux, but the Webby gift bag is amazing! 'Cause you know, the Webbys are the Internet's—[stifles laughter] the Internet's premier award. Founded in 1996. So they sent me this huge bag, and guess what's in it?
jesse
Flooz. [Stifling laughter] The Internet currency.
john
[Laughs.] Good pull. Good pull. [Laughs.]
jesse
[Stifling laughter] Thank you. Courtesy of FogDog.com.
john
There you go. [Stifles laughter.] Oh, man, that brings me back! I was gonna start with a case of Jolt and a case of Surge.
jesse
Mm-hm.
john
Plus a Motorola StarTAC.
jesse
[Stifling laughter] Mm-hm?
john
An original gold beta CD-ROM of Duke Nukem 3D. [Jesse laughs.] A crate of 200 random—this was weird, that it was random—random print edition issues of PC World magazine.
jesse
Mm-hm.
john
A DVD copy of Sandra Bullock's The Net, delivered by Cosmo.com. Didn't know they were still around.
jesse
Wow!
john
And this is a—I mean, this thing is collectible! This is the original Pets.com sock puppet.
jesse
Wow!
john
Yeah. And what's—
jesse
Did it come with Michael Ian Black?
john
Just his hand. [Laughs.]
jesse
[Laughing] Yeah, wow. I'm gonna send him—[stifles laughter]. I'm gonna send Michael a note, and let him know if cauterization is on us.
john
Yeah. [Laughs.] Yeah, I'm really—it's a little gruesome, honestly, but...
jesse
Ehhh, but collectible!
john
That's—I think the fact is he wouldn't give it up.
jesse
Yeah.
john
Do you know what I mean?
jesse
Yeah.
john
And honestly, knowing Michael Ian Black a little bit—wonderful guy.
jesse
Really nice man.
john
But if he still had that sock puppet and they came for it, I think he wouldn't give it up. Think he'd fight for it.
jesse
[Sighing/whispering] Yeah. Yeah...
john
They'd have to take—they'd have to hold him down. Take it off by force.
jesse
Yeah. All I got in mine was just one copy of Computer Currents magazine.
john
Mm-hm.
jesse
But! I've been dialing into BBSes all day.
john
[Laughs.] What was your first email address? Do you remember?
jesse
[Exhales thoughtfully.] I don't remember what it was. But I went to this, like, fanc—very fa—I was the scholarship kid. I should be clear. At a very fancy private middle school.
john
Mm-hm.
jesse
That had Internet and email before the web.
john
Yeah.
jesse
So this would be 19—I got my first email address in 1992.
john
Whew!
jesse
And, uh, we had to use... Pine. Do you remember something called Pine?
john
I do. I remember that. I remember that.
jesse
Pine, and then you could dial into the school.
john
Yeah.
jesse
And connect with your modem.
john
Yeah.
jesse
And then, uh, you could get on Pine—
john
Right.
jesse
—and then you could send messages to the other sixth-graders.
john
[Exhales thoughtfully.] Wow!
jesse
That was the only people you knew that had email addresses at the time, was the—your fellow sixth-graders.
john
Yeah. My first email address was assigned to me in college, and I think it was a series of numbers. It looks like a autogenerated password that Google would make for you now. It's like—random numbers.
jesse
Some of our listeners don't know where you went to college, but you went to the University of Prodigy.
john
At—[laughs]. [Jesse laughs quietly.] That's right. At dear old CompuServe U. [Jesse laughs.] And, uh, the only person I knew who had an address was my oldest friend in the world, Damon Graff, who I've known since we were three. So I sent him two messages and got two back. But then I got Internet in my room in college at the dorm, and I've told this story before. I was just sitting in my room, quietly, hunting and pecking at my Macintosh SE.
jesse
Mm-hm.
john
And I heard a faint... scratching. Not even a knock, a scratching on my door. And I opened it, and the—and the—and the tall, impossibly skinny wraith of a dude who I knew as the Inter—the computer guy, the computer enthusiast in the dorm, said "Would you like to have the Internet in your room?" And I'm like, "Yeah, okay." And he ran a cord in, and he put it into my computer, and he showed me how to dial up bulletin boards and stuff. And it was all print, obviously. No in—no—this was—this would have been 1992. Right? It was all print, no visuals whatsoever. And the first two things I found were a group having a heated discussion as to whether or not, uh, Harrison Ford's character in Blade Runner was an android or a human.
jesse
Mm-hm.
john
Fights, about that.
jesse
Sure. Right.
john
And then the other thing I just found was just people trading prose erotica. [Jesse laughs.] I was like... "Huh!" And the Internet has never changed. It's exactly that, still. [Both laugh.] People fighting over nerd stuff, and, uh, hugging and kissing. But thank you, the Webbys!
jesse
Thank you, Webby Awards.
john
It's—I mean, it's re—it just, you know, this is a... I was quite surpri—I mean, I was surprised to learn we were nominated. And very surprised to learn we won, and in particular in this context of where we are in the world today. Just, every little bit helps! It really lightened my day. And, um—
jesse
It's always good to know that you beat Will Ferrell at something.
john
Yeah. And thanks, obviously, to all of the listeners who expressed their support on the Webbys website. Did you know that the Webbys have a website? [Beat.]
jesse
Yeah.
john
Yeah.
jesse
Website.com, I think.
john
Webs—[laughs] website dot... What do you think is on Website.com? We'll talk to—we'll get to justice in one second, but I gotta—I gotta know. [Jesse laughs quietly.] Website.com... Yeah! Guess what? It—you can create a website. [Laughs.] That's all.
jesse
Yeah. Yeah. The only, uh, website our listeners should be visiting—besides MaximumFun.org—is Zombo.com. That's advice from me in 1999 to you now, 21 years later.
john
Uh-huh.
jesse
It's still rolling. Zombocom.
john
Uh-huh.
jesse
Let's get into some justice, John! Here's something from Brian. He says: "My wife Samantha never caps pens or clicks them closed. This dries them out, and then I have to throw them away. She claims it makes them easier to access. I feel uncapping a pen takes milliseconds at most. I would like you to order an injunction stipulating my wife is only allowed to leave her pens uncapped, and for my pens to be left capped when not in use."
john
[Sighs/groans quietly.] Can we go back to talking about Zombo.com? This guy's upset 'cause his pens are dry?
jesse
Yeah.
john
Alright.
jesse
His pens are dry. Ah, he's probably got some stray marks to deal with as well.
john
[Scoffs quietly.] I—this is a—this is clearly a felt-tip sitch, right?
jesse
It must be, because I don't think the rollerballs are drying out to an appreciable extent. Certainly not to the extent that they have to be discarded.
john
Right.
jesse
Are these, like, dry-erase markers? [John laughs quietly.] That's the ones that really dry out.
john
They do! It's right there in the name.
jesse
Yeah.
john
What kind of pen do you use around the house or in the office? When you're writing by hand, what do you use? What—it doesn't have to be a pen. Could be a crayon, sten—a pencil.
jesse
I have a couple of, uh, nice pens that I like to use.
john
Uh-huh. Go on.
jesse
I like a Kaweco Sport. Which is a—
john
Ooh!
jesse
—an affordable, compact fountain pen.
john
Ooh!
jesse
I like that a lot. I have a fancy fountain pen, too, that I got through menswear connections long ago.
john
Uh-huh.
jesse
But the main—the—and the Kaweco Sport is a great pen, a cartridge fountain pen. It—the—there's plastic ones that cost like $20, and then I think mine is brass and it cost a little more than that, but not much more. But the pen that I use on a day-to-day basis is the one that was recommended to me by avol—you know, as we've talked about many, many times on Judge John Hodgman—Wirecutter.
john
Yeah.
jesse
Which is a Uni-ball Signo.
john
Oh!
jesse
And, uh, it's a very nice pen! And it writes beautifully. And very affordable.
john
My wife, who is a high school teacher, likes a fountain pen. I find them to be too scratchy.
jesse
Mm.
john
But that's just a matter of taste. And then she also likes those pens that are like, really fi—like, fine-tipped?
jesse
Yeah.
john
Like—do you know what I mean? Like, I don't know if there's felt up there, or—I don't think a ball could be that small! It like—it's like writing with the edge of—the end of a needle. Do you know that kind of pen?
jesse
Yes. I know exactly the kind of pen you're talking about.
john
Also very scratchy to me. I like a smooth thing, so I—I treated myself recently to a box of Pilot G2s, one millimeters, which are the bold. And those were always my go-to, but I think I got a dud box, 'cause these are not good enough. These aren't—these aren't laying down the ink I like. I like a nice bold thing.
jesse
Wow. Yeah, well, you're a bold man!
john
Yeah! I am bold. Right. So, in any case, this—uh, yeah! Um, Samantha doesn't cap the pens. They dry out. He has to throw them away. She doesn't cap them 'cause she claims this makes them easier to access. [Pause.] I don't know. Samantha, come on. I mean... [Both laugh.] That's kinda of a... crummy excuse. Like, there's—it's hard to justify not capping a pen. It's a pretty easy thing to do. And you know, maybe when we lived in an age of true abundance, when we could go out to the stationery store or press a button on the Internet we were talking about earlier—head over to Zombo.com—and get a pen delivered to your door within five seconds... you might be able to justify just, like, rolling through pens. The sheer wasteful materialism of rolling through pens that you can't bother to re-cap. But there's nothing good about the situation we're in, except a moment of reflection to say "Oh! I should be more mindful of the resources that I use." Don't let your pens dry out, Samantha! That's what I say! Keep 'em closed! Preserve whatcha got! Don't let it slip through your fingers!
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
john
Am I right, or am I wrong, Jesse Thorn?
jesse
You're absolutely right. And frankly, I don't think they're probably drying out all that much, but I do think that they almost certainly are leaving stray marks. [John laughs.] And I cannot abide by stray marks.
john
Do you know in the original draft of Edward Scissorhands, it was, uh, Edward Felt-Tip Hands? [Laughs quietly.]
jesse
[Stifling laughter] No, I did not know that!
john
True story.
jesse
'Cause in the actual movie he's a rollerball, is that correct?
john
[Laughs.] That's right.
jesse
Yeah.
john
Uh, yeah. Leaving stray marks. Stray marks. [Jesse laughs quietly.] I don't like felt-tips—
jesse
Cynthia—
john
I don't like felt—by the way, I'm just gonna say this. I don't like felt-tip pens, either. [Beat.]
crosstalk
John: How do you feel about felt-tip? Jesse: Wow. What about a permanent marker?
john
I love a Sharpie.
jesse
Yeah.
john
I do love a Sharpie.
jesse
It's very satisfying to be able to write on anything. Feel like a king.
john
That's right! Feel—
jesse
Or a monarch.
john
Feel like a Barbecue King of Brooklyn. Alright, what does Cynthia have to say?
jesse
"I'd like to have the judge preside over a pressing household issue regarding wearing shorts during winter inside the house. My husband starts wearing them in January." [John snorts.] "We live in New York."
john
Jesse... sartorial klaxon.
jesse
Yes.
john
You know about how men dress up.
jesse
[Sighing] Yeah, I do.
john
Shorts... in the house. When is it okay, in your opinion? [Long pause. A dog in the background.]
jesse
[Sighs.] John...
john
Yeah.
jesse
Everyone has their own path through the world.
john
Mm-hm!
jesse
Each one among us makes our own choices. [More barking.]
john
What have you done with my bailiff? [Laughs quietly.]
jesse
We each live with the consequences of those choices.
john
Yes?
jesse
And some people love to wear shorts.
john
Mm-hm! [Pause.]
jesse
My college roommate Mike...
john
Mm-hm.
jesse
...did not own pants.
john
Mm!
jesse
Now, he was—and is—a powerfully built, relatively short Filipino man.
john
Mm-hm.
jesse
And had spectacular calves. I know you're quite proud of your calves, John, and rightly so.
john
I'm arguably the Calf King of Brooklyn. That I could say, for sure.
jesse
Mike Manuel, the Calf King of Hayward, California—
john
Fair.
jesse
—had beautiful calves, and wore his shorts well. [Stifling laughter] And his mom had to buy him a pair of pants when he went home for a wedding or something.
john
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
jesse
But through the winter of Santa Cruz, California, he wore shorts, even in the rain.
john
Mm-hm! [Beat.]
jesse
But he was a s—he was—[sighs]. I mean, John, what do you THINK I think about this?! [John cracks up.] I think... put some pants on! It's not so bad to wear pants! It's FINE to wear pants! It's perfectly fine to wear pa—I do not understand this compulsive need to—this like, [whimpering cartoonishly] "Ohh! If—if I wear pants—ohh! Ohhh! Ohhhh! My calves will be too hot!" [John laughs. Jesse drops the voice.] Look! If it's really hot outside, and you're walking around outside, wear shorts! I have shorts! I live in Los Angeles! It's hot in the summer! I hate the heat! I wear shorts. I'm not nuts about it. [John laughs.] But I do it! But it's not gonna kill you to wear pants!
john
Listening to you work really hard at being... tolerant and accepting of other people's leg-covering, when this is truly your area of expertise, it was a—it was fun. It was a little upsetting. As I said. I don't know whether that was Coco or Sissy in the background barking. [Jesse laughs.] But clearly your dogs were upset about this. They're like, "What—what is ha—who is—what—what has happened to my master?" [Laughs quietly.]
jesse
John, here's—
john
"Who is this pod person who has replaced him?"
jesse
[Laughs.] Here's what happened! I'm thinking about the cargo shortsmen in my life.
john
Yes.
jesse
And how much I love them. I'm thinking about Chuck Bryant.
john
Chuck Bryant.
jesse
A cargo shorts enthusiast. I'm thinking about Justin McElroy!
john
Yep.
jesse
Who—I'm sure Justin McElroy's worn cargo shorts in the snow. And God bless him, I love Justin McElroy.
john
Yeah, of course.
jesse
A brilliant man, a wonderful talent, a handsome guy, a charmer. A delight. And at home... in his cargo shorts.
john
Mm-hm.
jesse
And I don't wanna prevent anyone from living their life their way. But I can say it's not a choice that I would make, John. It's not a choice that I would make.
john
[Sighs.] I have feelings about this. Because... you know, we're living in a difficult time. I am currently... wearing track pants.
jesse
[Laughing] Oh, wow!
john
Yeah. Yeah.
jesse
I can only see you from the waist up! I'd like to see you in a—in a full tracksuit! "Mandelbaum, Mandelbaum, Mandelbaum!" [Both laugh.]
john
I mean, there was a time on this podcast that I said if—you know, if you are wearing elastic-waist pants in a non-athletic situation, that you are committing a crime against your adulthood. Because you are devolving into baby form. I had a pair of track pants when this started. And I realized that I was gonna be eating a lot of Biscoff Butter. [Jesse laughs quietly.] And I also realized I needed some what Paul F. Tompkins and Janie Haddad Tompkins—co-hosts of the great Stay F. Homekins podcast—what they call soft clothes. What others call loungewear or athleisure. Because I was just gonna be around the house a lot. And I needed to build in a lot of napping, to cope with this. So not only did I start wearing track pants more, I bought extra pairs of them! For the first time in my life, I bought sweatpants, and I'll wear 'em around the house! [Beat.] I'll tell you what, though. They're not shorts. [Laughs quietly.] Drew the line.
jesse
[Laughing] Yeah.
john
Drew the line!
jesse
John, I own—I own sweatpants! I wear 'em around the house!
john
Yeah.
jesse
Soft clothes!
john
Soft clothes. 'Round the house. Oh, it's just so nice! I love to feel... my shapely, muscular calves, comforted and consoled by the soft heather gray of some Adidas track pants. I don't want them flopping around! That said, we're all doing the best we can. I appreciate that this is not a new habit for Cynthia's partner. This is something that probably goes back years and years, back when—before we were at home all the time. If we're lucky enough to be able to do so. So I will say that as long as we are safer at home, observing stay-at-home recommendations, orders, regulations, whatever they are in whatever state or county you live in, I'll give anybody a pass for anything that they wanna wear at home. [Beat.] I put on shorts the other day, and I was so—I was so, so surprised and grateful that I could still fit into them. Boy, oh boy. [Jesse laughs.] 'Cause it was hot. Um, but yeah. I think I share your, uh, baseline dislike, I think, of grown men wearing shorts as basic wardrobe. Unless they are living in a tropical environment. Like Atlanta, Georgia. I'll give Chuck a pass on that. Atlanta summers, you don't wanna mess with those.
jesse
Huntington, West Virginia, home of Justin McElroy.
john
Yeah. Yeah.
jesse
[Laughing] Hayward, California, [non-committal "hmmm"-esque noise].
john
Yeah. Culturally, there are different places where you can wear shorts all the time, inside and out.
jesse
Yeah. All Filipinos get a pass from me. Shorts and flip flops.
john
Yeah. I would not wear shorts to a cocktail party, unless it was summertime and outside and hot. Otherwise I would wear pants. It's—the thing of it is, the thing I'm getting hung up on here, Jesse, I realize, is that there is a certain kind of guy in the Northeast and in New England...
jesse
Oh, yeah.
john
...a region of five states and one commonwealth in the—in the—in Southeastern Canada. Where guys will wear shorts inside during the winter, and outside during the winter.
jesse
Wow.
john
And that is something I do not care to see. The guys who are wandering around Greenfield, Massachusetts in December or February in shorts? They tend to seem to be at the end of a long, sad story. [Both laugh.] Walking down the—walking down the middle of a—not the middle of the road, but walking down a sidewalk in a car-travel town like Greenfield, walking, and wearing shorts... out of a bar? That's what I associate wearing shorts in the winter with. And it's not—I don't know what these guys are going through. I don't know why they like it. But it tends to be guys that I think are going to... dislike me, and say mean things to me, in my historic growing up in New England. So I don't wanna put that on Cynthia's husband. If he needs to wear shorts inside during the winter, especially now, I'm gonna grant him a stay of judgment. But if he's wearing those shorts outside during the winter? No. Come on, dude. Dress appropriately for the weather.
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
jesse
Let's take a quick break. A dispute... with song! is coming up on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
promo
James Arthur: Hi, I’m James, host of Minority Korner, which is a—? Speaker 1: Podcast that’s all about intersectionality. It’s hosted by James with a guest host every week. Speaker 2: Discussing all sorts of wonderful issues; nerdy and political. Speaker 3: Pop culture— Speaker 1: Black, queer feminism. Speaker 4: Race. Sexuality. Speaker 5: News. Speaker 6: You’re gonna learn your history. There’s self-empowerment. And it’s told by what feels like your best friend. Speaker 2: Why should someone listen to Minority Korner? Speaker 7: Why not?
promo
Speaker 8: Oh my god. Free stuff. James: There’s not free stuff. Speaker 1: The listeners of Minority Korner will enjoy some necessary LOLs, but mainly a look at what’s happening in our world through a colorful lens. Speaker 2: People will get the perspective of… marginalized communities. Speaker 1: I feel heard. I feel seen. Speaker 9: Like you said, you need to understand how to be more proactive in your community, and this is a great way to get started. James: Join us every Friday on MaxFun, or wherever you get your podcasts. Multiple speakers: Minority Korner! Because together, we’re the majority.
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
jesse
Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. We're clearing the docket this week. And we have something from Sylvie. "Dear Judge Hodgman, Please help me. My husband Trevor is a sponge-leaver. We live in an apartment with no dishwasher, and we love to cook, so we generate a lot of dishes. When my husband washes the dishes, he inevitably leaves the wet, sudsy sponge in the sink, where it festers, mildews, and mingles with whatever bits of food get rinsed off of incoming dishes. It's intolerably disgusting to go to wash up and find a cold, wet, smelly, dirty sponge in the sink."
john
Jesse? Jesse, let me just pause you there for one second to point out... this is the part of the letter—you know, you send in your submissions to MaximumFun.org/jjho, or simply write hodgman@maximumfun.org. I get all the submissions, I get all the letters, and I read 'em—I read 'em all! I try to respond to all of them. And chances are if you have not heard back from me, it's because I have filed it over to Jennifer Marmor to consider for the docket or for the live litigant cases, or whatever. And I'm—you'll hear back from us that way. But I have been getting disputes from people fighting about how to do the dishes, for—every week, for ten years. It is such a common dispute, and one that I vowed privately that I would never hear again on the Judge John Hodgman podcast, in any form. Docket, Swift Justice, live litigant, whatever it is. It's settled. It's dumb. But... then I read this next sentence. And I decided we had to hear this one. Please, continue.
jesse
"I have begged and pleaded, and even composed a shaming song—" [John cracks up.] "—about the travails of being a sponge-leaver's wife. Having observed my father-in-law's treatment of sponges, I suspect that his behavior might be genetic. But I beg for intervention, nonetheless. I would like you to order my husband to wring out the sponge and put it on the side of the sink to dry after each use."
john
[Emphatically] "A shaming song must be heard," I decided.
jesse
Yeah. I think that's reasonable.
john
So I asked Sylvie, "Well, I'll hear your case if you record the shaming song and send it in." And I believe she did. Is that correct?
jesse
Jennifer Marmor says yes, from her home in Los Angeles.
john
Alright.
jesse
Uh, you want—you wanna play that song for us, Jen?
john
Thumbs-up from Jennifer Marmor.
music
[The song is slow, a cappella, and heartfelt, with a haunting touch of reverb. John and Jesse laugh underneath.] Sylvie: Ohhh, hard is the life Of a sponge leaver's wife When he leaves the sponge in the sink It never will dry And she always will cry For a sponge leaver's sponge always stinks Yes, a sponge leaver's sponge always stiiinks. [Song ends.]
crosstalk
[Both laughing.] Jesse: Holy cow, John! John: Wow! I had not—
jesse
Sylvie's got some pipes!
john
I had not listened to it until that moment. I refused to listen to it. She can really sing!
jesse
That had some major, like, "May the circle be unbroken" vibes.
john
Yeah! Yeah, yeah, yeah! She can really sing! Boy, oh, boy. If I were Trevor... I wouldn't only be extremely excited to have this person in my life, and listen to what they have to say about basic sink hygiene... I'd be a little scared. [Jesse laughs.] Be a little scared that if I don't do the right thing, I'm gonna be thrown out of a pickup truck or something! [Both laugh.] You know?
jesse
It's a hay wagon, maybe?
john
Yeah, maybe a hay wagon!
jesse
Something—I'm thinking something Little House on the Prairie-ish.
john
Yeah. Sylvie also shared a photo. She made reference to how her father-in-law, Trevor's father, also is a gross spongeman. And she sent a photo that I will never allow to be posted— [Jesse laughs.] —on the Judge John Hodgman Instagram. Because it is a real-time photo, from her father-in-law's house, of a sponge—[stifles laughter] sitting on top of the sink, with a raw turkey neck on it! On the sponge!
jesse
Ohhh. Ohhh!
john
Like he was taking the giblets out of a turkey for a holiday dinner, and just sorta like, randomly placed the turkey neck and the bag of giblets onto the sponge. And later, Trevor, at the same meal, brushed his teeth and spat into the sink... and spat on the sponge too. On the turkey-neck sponge. Turkey-Neck Sponge, by the way, being one of my favorite bands from the nineties. [Jesse laughs quietly.] So, yeah. Trevor and his dad have problems understanding—[stifles laughter] we have enough contagion in this world right now! You don't need to be spitting on or necking up a sponge! Rinse it out with hot water, put it on something that will allow air circulation underneath it, and... listen to your wife when she sings to you!
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
john
I don't understand, Trevor.
jesse
Just get a brush. How about that?
john
What's your dish-cleaning implement of choice, Jesse Thorn?
jesse
I use a brush. I use a brush with a handle on it, so that I don't have to get my hands all up in there.
john
Something imported from Japan, I presume? Or the—
jesse
Yeah, it's the one the Wirecutter recommends. [Laughs.]
john
Yeah, right. [Laughs.]
jesse
It works great! I'm not joking, it really is! [Laughs.] I—you know, you can run it through the dishwasher once in a while, if you have a dishwasher. I do that.
john
Yeah. That's a good thing.
jesse
I like the plastic bristle brush. You know, this reminds me of the wonderful comedian Todd Glass. I don't know if you've ever met Todd Glass.
john
I have met Todd Glass, and I'll tell you what, he's wonderful.
jesse
One of the great comedians here in the great city of Los Angeles. A delight of a man, with many strong and carefully observed convictions. And in his most recent special, or perhaps the one that preceded it, he had these theories about—he grew up very lower middle class, and he has these theories about what poor people and rich people do.
john
Mm-hm.
jesse
And the ones that I think about all the time are—[stifles laughter] "Poor people back into parking spaces—"
john
Mm-hm.
jesse
Which, I don't even know if that's true. I don't know if it's true, but the specificity of it is dazzling to me.
john
Mm-hm. Mm-hm, mm-hm!
jesse
"Rich people never leave their dish soap on top of the sink."
john
They just leave it in the sink?
jesse
They put it—no! They put it under the sink.
john
Ohhh! I see what you mean. Right, right, right. They don't—
jesse
Yeah. It's never out!
john
Right. You gotta—right.
jesse
Unless dishes are being done.
john
Right. Uh, I would say... I'm a Dobie spongeman myself. I like a Dobie. Not Ado—not Adobe Flash, the web add-on.
jesse
Not Larry Doby, the first African-American player in the American League.
john
No. Um, I'm talking about a Dobie sponge. It's a scrub sponge! I like that one the best.
jesse
Hm.
john
And you know what? I have a pump on my sink.
jesse
Oh, sure.
john
So I fill it up with the Dawn, or Palmolive, or whatever. I'm moving between the worlds that Todd Glass has outlined.
jesse
Yeah.
john
You know what I mean?
jesse
Yeah, well, that's our lot as entertainers.
john
[Laughs.] That's right. That's right.
jesse
We travel between worlds.
john
Right. We—even though we are, let's face it, probably the biggest celebrities in the world now that we are Webby Award–Winning podcasters. We still—
jesse
Yeah, I mean, we are Zombo.com-level celebs!
john
Right. We still have to be approachable, relatable, and convince people we're just like them.
jesse
Alright, here's something from Mike: "I'm writing to request an immediate injunction against my friends Mitch, Brendan, Matt, and Rebecca. They're quarantined separately, but play the video game StarCraft with each other online." They're—I should clarify here. This is just me interjecting something. They're quarantined in the year 2004. [John cracks up.] "I've never played the game, and have no desire to play, but they've included me in a group text that they use exclusively to talk about and set up games. I've tried replying with gross pictures of rotten food and Pete Rose's underwear ads." [Both laugh.] I did not know the Hit King made underwear ads. That is not appealing. He's not known for his—his grace and beauty. More for his pugnacious tenacity and, uh... betting on his own team. "But they still won't remove me from the text." [John laughs quietly.] "I would like to petition the court to remove me from the text chain."
john
[Laughing] I'm sorry, Jesse. My attention was diverted for a moment while I looked up "Pete Rose underwear ads," and... boy, oh boy. This is a po—this is an image that we are definitely— [Jesse bursts out laughing.]
crosstalk
John: —definitely posting to the Instagram. Until— Jesse: [Laughing] Holy—holy crap! Wait! But look at Steve Carlton! John: Yeah. So— Jesse: [Still laughing] Look at what he's wearing! Oh my goodness!
john
[Laughs.] This is an ad from 1977—
jesse
Is this like a singlet that Steve Carlton is wearing?!
john
Yeah. Well, it's a nylon A-shirt and brief.
jesse
Okay, so it's a combo. There's a—there's a seam there.
john
Jockey—
jesse
[Laughing] I thought it was like a wrestling [inaudible].
john
Jockey International, the underwear brand from Kenosha, Wisconsin, did a ad campaign in magazines in 1977 called "Take Away Their Uniforms, And Who Are They?" And they have a bunch of famous athletes of 1977 wearing just their underwear. And it is aaalarming! Both in the un—the sort of unapologetic lumpy man-ness of all of these athletes, and this beautiful seventies-style way of hairiness and weirdness and asymmetry. And also the underwear styles! [Jesse laughs.] Jim Hart is wearing a—Jim Hart of the St. Louis Cardinals wearing a Life A-shirt and a slim guy boxer. Jojo White of the Boston Celtics wearing an Alonce Brief. [Jesse laughs.] This is the best part. Pete Rose of the Cincinnati Reds—do you know what it—[laughs] do you know what his style of Jockey underwear is called? [Both laugh.] You see it there?
jesse
[Laughing] Yeah, I do!
john
International Skants! S-K-A-N-T-S, International Skants!
jesse
Ken Anderson of the Cincinnati Bengals is just wearing, like, exercise-type stuff!
john
Yeah.
jesse
A low-rise sports short. He looks pretty good. And Jim Palmer is a gorgeous man. I mean, you can see, looking—even though he's wearing the International Skant Tropics Brief— [John laughs.] Wait, Tropez (tro-pay) Brief.
john
Tropez Brief, right.
jesse
T-R-O-P-E-Z. Sorry, it's small on the screen here. Even though he's wearing a ridiculous, like, string bikini.
john
Yeah.
jesse
Uh, Jim Palmer looks pretty good. But that's 'cause Jim Palmer is a remarkably handsome man. Almost none of the other—outside of being professional athletes, none of these other men were selected for their good looks. And... you can see why Jim Palmer was an underwear spokesperson for like a decade after this, and all the rest of these guys just went back to, uh...
crosstalk
John: [Laughs.] Being— Jesse: Playing guard for the Boston Celtics. [Stifles laughter.]
john
Right. Being incredible athletes.
jesse
Yeah. Betting on baseball.
john
Jennifer Marmor, I'm texting you this image now for you to post on the Instagram, until we receive a cease and desist order from Jockey, Pete Rose, or all of culture. [Jesse laughs quietly.] And for some reason we have set up the precedent that we can now see you, but we cannot hear you. So I would like to—I would just like to watch your face as you open this file.
jesse
[Laughing] Steve Carlton has a look on his face like, "What? Underwear?! I'm a dang pitcher!" [Both laugh.]
john
Jennifer Marmor is looking at the image now, and I'd just say that... a—a—a look of... sort of... despair has crossed her face. [Laughs.] Not disgust, it's just, like, a deep—a deep sigh. An exhalation of resignation. [John or Jesse laughs quietly.]
jesse
I think the most interesting thing about Pete Rose is that this is—you know, this has to be the... late seventies.
john
'77.
jesse
And Pete Rose appears to have, uh... a quarantine haircut!
john
[Laughs.] Yeah.
jesse
He seems to have given himself that haircut. [Laughs quietly.]
john
Yeah, he is a true—Pete Rose—I don't know a lot about sports, but I knew enough about Pete Rose to know that the—the—I would not be surprised by seeing his odd bowl cut. I am surprised to see every other part of his body, in significant detail. Well, anyway, back to the case. Um, if this Pete Rose underwear ad has not gotten them to take you off the text thread yet, they will never do it, Mike. They're obviously trying to annoy you at this point. And there must be a technological solution! You have to be able to block that thread, I would think, without blocking all the individual persons? I will do what you ask. I will order Mitch, Brendan, Matt, and Rebecca to take you off the thread. I know they will not. And if they continue to harass you in this way—[sighs], I don't know what—what solution is there, Jesse Thorn? Do you have one for Mike?
jesse
[Inhales or exhales thoughtfully.] I think they should just loop me in on this. I just—I'm—I'm not really on any group text messages. I always feel kinda left out when people talk about 'em. I just—just my wife's family have one.
john
Yeah.
jesse
It's just them liking pictures of each other's children.
john
That's a good solution. Mike? If you hear the sound of my voice, now or in the future, write me at hodgman@maximumfun.org. And if you can add me to that text thread, do so. And then when I hear from them again, I will yell at them directly.
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
john
And then I will block you all and throw my phone into a lake of fire.
jesse
[Quietly] Someone pushed my door open.
john
Oh—[laughs] sorry, I didn't see! Ohhh! [Both laugh quietly.] Meanwhile, Sissy the dog has come in to lick Jesse's nose! I think this is probably a good time for a nose-lick break. [Jesse laughs.] When we come back, we'll hear a case from a former litigant about her weird dad, plus a note from my old Daily Show pal Rob Riggle about a Daily Show memory that I discussed on a past episode! So come on back, and we'll hear more of Judge John Hodgman after this brief nose-lick break.
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
promo
[A telephone rings.] Hotshot Hollywood Producer: Listen, I’m a hotshot Hollywood movie producer. Music: Fun, grooving music begins to play quietly in the background. Producer: You have until I finish my glass of [articulating] kom-bu-cha to pitch me your idea. Go. [Slurping sounds.] Ify: Alright! It’s called Who Shot Ya: a movie podcast that isn’t just a bunch of straight, white dudes. I’m Ify Nwadiwe, the new host of the show and a certified BBN. Producer: BBN? Ify: Buff Black Nerd! Alonso: I’m Alonso Duralde, an elderly gay and legit film critic who wrote a book on Christmas movies. Drea: I’m Drea Clark, a loud, white lady from Minnesota!
promo
Ify: Each week, we talk about a new movie in theaters and all the important issues going on in the film industry. Alonso: It’s like Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner meets Cruising! Ify: And if it helps seal the deal? I can flex my muscles while we record each episode. Producer: I’m sorry, this is a podcast?! I’m a movie producer. [Disdainfully] How did you get in here? Drea: Ify, quick! Start flexing! Ify: [Dramatically] Bicep! Lats! Chest! Who Shot Ya, dropping every Friday on MaximumFun.org, or wherever you listen to podcasts. [Music ends.]
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
jesse
We're taking a break from the courtroom to update our listeners on what we have going on. What's going on with you, John?
john
Well, of course, I cannot do like shows. For obvious reasons. But as I have mentioned before, I will be virtually returning to my hometown of Brookline, Massachusetts—in New England, in the commonwealth of Massachusetts—for two great events. Tomorrow, June the 4th, I will be appearing virtually in conversation at the Brookline Booksmith, my hometown bookstore. BrooklineBooksmith.com will give you all the information as to how and when you can join the virtual conversation, and we'll all have a very good time together. Brookline Booksmith of course, like a lot of independent bookstores, has been, you know, working steadily behind the scenes to get you all of your reading material while you're staying at home. And, uh, mailing it out. And they're doing a wonderful job of it! And I'm thrilled to be able to support them. And then on June the 9th, I will be crossing the street to my old haunt and employer, the Coolidge Corner movie theater, where I will be hosting a virtual Q&A along with Coolidge Corner staff member Anne Continelli about our shared favorite documentary, Grey Gardens! And if you go over to Coolidge.org, you can find out all the details about that as well as see all of the virtual screenings they're hosting of great arthouse and independent films, including Driveways, the last film made by Brian Dennehy; including a virtual screening of the documentary about Pauline Kael, called What She Said, which I definitely wanna check out; and all kinds of other really cool staff picks and events and virtual events that are helping keeping the Coolidge Corner Theatre going when it can't... be a theater! Sooo, please check those events out if you care to! And also today—let's see if I got this right. If tomorrow's June the 4th, and I'm at Brookline Booksmith, then next week is June the 9th and I'm at the Coolidge, that means today is June the 3rd, which means... it's my birthday.
jesse
[Laughs quietly.] Happy birthday, John!
john
Thanks, Jesse, I appreciate it. Time is moving on.
jesse
Let's get back to the courtroom.
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
john
We're back with the Judge John Hodgman podcast! Jesse can't talk right now, because now another dog has gotten into his office! [Jesse laughs/groans.] Coco the dog!
jesse
Sissy pushed my office door open, and then she came in and sat on my lap. But then Coco was jealous, so she came in and sat on my lap. But Coco's not a nose-licker. She's just resting her head on my shoulder.
john
Awww.
jesse
[Stifling laughter] I'm pretty excited about this case from Melissa.
john
Let's hear it.
john
Haaa!
jesse
"—for another issue." [Laughs.] I hadn't thought about the Zero Coke guy in a while! [Laughing] That was a guy who drank Coke Zero but always called it Zero Coke!
john
Yeah. Like most weird dads on the program, he did this specifically to annoy his child. Melissa, in this case. [Jesse laughs.] Now, apparently he has not learned his lesson. So Melissa's back. What's the beef now with weird dad?
jesse
"I'm staying with my parents right now, due to the pandemic. I brought home a bunch of food from my Brooklyn apartment, and told them I'm happy to share. One of the things I brought with me is a jar of Italian pistachio spread."
john
Mm!
jesse
"Which is a gift my parents gave to me. This stuff is incredibly delicious, and I'm slowly making my way through the jar, wanting to savor it as long as possible. I've noticed my dad eating it on a few occasions in the past couple of weeks, and asked him nicely to please not eat it all up, since it was a present from him to me. He argued all food in the house is now fair game." [John quietly cracks up.] "And since he paid for it, he's allowed to eat it." Two classic dad arguments! Pure, classic dad arguments. "Please order my weird dad to stop eating the present he got me before it's all gone."
john
[Sighs.] Do you have something in your pantry currently, Jesse, that because of what's going on in the world or just general scarcity, like, you're enjoying it a little bit at a time? Hoping that no one comes in and eats it all?
jesse
Yeah, and it's something that I theoretically got as a present for my wife.
john
Oh! That you got as a present for Theresa!
jesse
I claimed that it was a gift for Theresa, but in fact I knew that it was secretly as much as gift for me as for my wife.
john
Tell me! What is it?
jesse
It's Luxardo cherries.
john
Ooooh, Luxardo cherries!
jesse
Luxardo cherries. They're the fancy kind of maraschino cherry. And Ben Harrison—
john
Yeah.
jesse
—our MaxFun colleague, the host of The Greatest Generation among other podcasts—
john
Yes.
jesse
He—one—he is a real cocktail nut.
john
Uh-huh.
jesse
Very serious cocktail nut.
john
Right.
jesse
And one day he told me, "What are you—what are you doing, eating regular maraschino cherries? You should be getting the Luxardos."
john
Mm-hm.
jesse
I said, "Luxardos? Gimme a break. How much better could a Luxardo be? Maraschino cherries are maraschino cherries. You had one Shirley Temple, you've had 'em all." It turns out Luxardo cherries are INCREDIBLE!
john
Yeah.
jesse
But they cost like $20 a jar or something. [Laughs.]
john
Yep. Yep.
jesse
So... [laughs] you really have to plan out your eating. You can't just sit there and eat 'em.
john
Look. We live in a time right now where we are reminded that a lot of the world doesn't have access to whatever they want, whenever they want. It's a good reminder! Like Brian and his wife Samantha, who just thinks that, uh, there's an endless sea of felt-tips for her to dry out. And I don't know how long it's gonna take for this jar of Luxardo cherries that I'm ordering for you, Jesse, right now— [Jesse laughs.] I don't know how long it's gonna take to get to you. It could be weeks. But I am thrilled to send you some Luxardo cherries, as a tribute to our friendship. And I am also thrilled to offer to Melissa, to send her a jar—a big old nice jar—of pistachio... cream? I don't even know what it is. I'll look it up. Melissa? Email me. Let me know the brand of pistachio... butter you want. I'm gonna send it to you. That's gonna be for you only. And your dad—the Zero Coke dad—cannot have any of it. [Jesse laughs.] My only—my only stipulation... I'm gonna send you two jars. One for you to hide and have later on your own when you want. And one for you to only eat in front of him.
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
jesse
[Quietly cracks up.]
john
Because guess what, Zero Coke guy?! This is a great time to be generous! It's a terrible time to be a weird dad playing mind games so that he can steal stuff from his own daughter. Be generous of spirit, thought, and action right now, if you can help it! Don't steal people's pistachio... mousse, or—eugh, I don't even know what it is. What would you even have it on? Maybe I'll get some, too.
jesse
[Laughing] Yeah! I kinda want some!
john
Just—alright, I'm gonna send you a gift box! Maraschino cherries— [Both laugh.] Maraschino cherries and, uh, pistachio, uh—uh, pâté. Jennifer Marmor, anything you need?
jesse
She says no.
john
No, she says no. Alright. I gotta send her something to make up for this picture that I sent to her of Pete Rose in his International Skants. [Both laugh.]
jesse
So we heard from a few listeners in response to episode 461, "The Ballad of Silvia, Fernando, and the Cat." We talked about the order of putting on socks and shoes, which led John to talk about a time he noticed that Rob Riggle put on his shoes before putting on his pants! Rob at the time had said that it was "a Marines thing."
crosstalk
John: Yes, Rob is a—Rob is a reti—uh— Jesse: Rob is—Rob's a vet.
john
He's a veteran of the United States Marines.
jesse
Well, we asked Rob to elaborate on that, and he sent us this message.
clip
Rob Riggle: [Clears throat.] Hey, John Hodgman, my friend! My good friend. Hey, listen, I—[laughs]. Uh, I heard you recount the tale of me putting on socks and shoes before I put on my pants during our days in—at The Daily Show. And somehow this stuck out to you. I guess I claimed it was a Marine thing. Listen, I claim a lot of things are Marine things when I do something unusual, and people generally give me a wide berth with that. [John and Jesse laugh quietly under the message.] However! There is some—some truth to the madness, I guess. Um, listen. It's much easier to go into battle with no pants on than it is with no shoes on. It's a simple mobility thing. You know, if you've gotta run across rough terrain, rough ground, rocks, glass, um, all kinds of metal, scrap metal, um, you need to be able to run. If you get a few cuts on your legs, whatever, big deal. But you gotta be able to move. Mobility is key. So that's why when you have to prioritize in dressing, you get on your shoes first! Then the rest. 'Cause you never know when you're gonna have to move out. It's just an old—it's just an old rule! No big deal. Um, and that's, uh—that's what I recall! I hope you're well, brother.
john
I guess his—that makes a lot of sense. And I remember him sort of explaining that to me at the time. And I can't see what Pete Rose is wearing in this photo, but I bet he probably put on his socks and shoes first, too. [Jesse laughs.] Because you never know when you might have a baseball emergency, you might be sent out onto the field wearing only your skants.
jesse
So you think he's probably wearing some, like, filed metal cleats.
john
Yeah. No, I'm sure he's wearing baseball shoes and socks. [Jesse laughs.] Just in case. At all times! At all times. Now, I took—I was reassured that my memory was not completely broken when Rob, my—my friend—my old friend, as he pointed out so pointedly... uh, when Rob sent me this message, but I did not discount the possibility that not only did he lie to me back then when he did it about this being a Marine tradition, but that he might be lying to me still, just to make fun of me on my own podcast. Very, very possible. Love you, Rob.
jesse
Yeah.
john
But he's a joker! Luckily, a listener named Zack also wrote in, independently, claiming that he had also been in the Armed Services, and confirming what Rob had said to me. And he added another detail, regarding dress uniforms. Jesse, would you read that, please?
jesse
"It's also worth noting that while wearing dress uniforms, shirt stays were used to keep the dress shirt taut and wrinkle-free while being worn. These are attached at the bottom of the shirt and at the top of the socks, so one had to put their socks and shirt on before their slacks." That's like an—it's like an elastic band that attaches to the top of the socks and the bottom of the shirt.
john
Oh!
jesse
And that keeps the socks up and the shirt down.
john
That's amazing! I want that!
jesse
Yeah? Well... It's available to you! Just go to your, uh, what are those called, CPOs?
john
What if I wear shorts over them? Would that be appropriate? [Jesse laughs.] If I wrote dress shoes—[laughs] dress socks, a dress shirt, and Bermuda—
jesse
And military dress shorts?
john
[Laughing] And military dress shorts— [Jesse laughs.] —with the shirt stays coming down the side of my beautiful calves.
jesse
"A bonus note," says Zack. "It was common practice among my peers and I that you had both boots on before you tied them, as it's much easier to run to action with two un-tied boots than it is with only one tied boot."
john
Well, there you go! Thank you very much, Zack and Rob, for confirming my faulty memory and providing some insight.
jesse
John, I think we've come to the end of this episode of Judge John Hodgman. You know how I can tell?
john
Because Coco the dog is sitting on your lap, saying it's time to go?
jesse
Uh, yeah. She said, uh—she said it was time to go, using a power of a dog's body that, while completely silent, can be heard by all in the room. Through their nose. If you know the power that I'm talking about that dogs have. [John laughs.] [Stifling laughter] That symbolizes that you should get in a different chair, or go to another room.
john
Alright. Jesse's gotta give his chair up for Coco. Let's get us outta here.
jesse
[Laughs.] The docket is clear. That's it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman. Our producer is Jennifer Marmor. Follow us on Twitter at @JesseThorn and at @hodgman. We're on Instagram at @judgejohnhodgman. Make sure to hashtag your Judge John Hodgman Tweets #JJHo, and check out the Maximum Fun subreddit to discuss this episode! That's at MaximumFun.Reddit.com. Submit your cases at MaximumFun.org/jjho, or email hodgman@maximumfun.org. Since we won that Webby, I wanna offer a special thank-you not only to our capable producer Jennifer Marmor, but our other producers who have worked on the program, Jesus Ambrosio and Hannah Smith, and especially to what I have decided her title is our founding producer, Julia Smith, who put in many years of work to make this show what it is, and we're very grateful for Julia's efforts.
john
Hear, hear.
jesse
Along with everybody who's worked on our show. We're very proud.
john
A lot of the greats! A lot of—Mark McConville, Matt Gourley!
jesse
Ah! Mark McConville and Matt Gourley, of course!
john
Yeah! They were—
jesse
Thanks to them!
john
The Pistol Shrimps Radio show stars! Used to—
jesse
Yeah.
john
Used to cut tape for Judge John Hodgman!
jesse
Yeah.
john
And yes, I also echo your thanks for everyone who's worked on this show, and Julia especially. Thank you.
jesse
We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
music
A cheerful guitar chord.
speaker 2
Comedy and culture.
speaker 3
Artist owned—
speaker 4
—audience supported.
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