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Jesse Thorn: [Somber] Hi. It's Jesse, the founder of MaxFun, coming to you from the microphone at my home office, where I am socially segregating. So, we promised you a MaxFunDrive this week, but things... [suppressing a grim chuckle] haven't exactly gone how we expected. So given the pandemic, we're gonna postpone this year's Drive. Events are still fluid, so we're hesitant to give you specifics about new dates. Right now, we have late April penciled into our calendars. We'll keep you posted about that. As it stands, a lot of our Drive machinery was already cranked up. So, for one thing you might hear a reference or two to the Drive in our shows, which might have been recorded before we made this decision. And here is some good news: there's a bunch of great bonus content available for all of our MaxFun members. If you're a member and you missed the email with instructions on how to listen, check your spam folder or log in at MaximumFun.org/manage. Also at MaximumFun.org/manage, you can change your membership if your circumstances have changed. We know this is a tough time for a lot of people, and we understand. You can also go to MaximumFun.org/join at any time if you'd like to become a member. During the next couple weeks, what would have been the Drive, we are going to do our best to be extra available to you. We've got some streaming events planned, some social media stuff. We know a lot of folks are isolated right now, and we wanna help provide comfort in the best ways that we know how. You can follow us on social media, and we'll let you know what's up. During this tough time, I have been feeling really grateful for my community of colleagues here at MaxFun. And for you, the folks who make our work possible. Goofy as that work may sometimes be. Stay safe out there. We're thinking of you.
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[Three gavel bangs.]
jesse thorn
Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I’m Bailiff Jesse Thorn. This week’s episode was recorded live, in Portland, Maine—at the beautiful state theater.
john hodgman
Yeah. Not only were we recording in Portland, Maine—one of the great cities of Maine—but we were also joined by a very special musical guest. What a treat for me. The Night & Day jazz trio. Summertime listeners will know that when I’m recording the Judge John Hodgman podcast from Maine, Joel Mann is the taciturn producer—up there at WERU FM in Orland, Maine. He also plays bass in the Night & Day trio and he was joined by his two trio members, Chris Poulin and Steve Orlofsky—Mr. O, of course, being the leader of the George Stevens Academy high school jazz band. I was so thrilled to see these guys. And I had a really great time visiting with my friends and neighbors, in Portland. So, without further ado, what should we do, Jesse?
jesse
Return to a time when public gatherings were legal and appropriate!
john
[Laughs.] Let’s go to the stage!
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
jesse
[The audience cheers and applauds. They do so several times as Jesse speaks.] [Yelling cheerfully over the crowd.] Portland, you’ve come to us desperate for justice and we’re here, at the State Theatre, to deliver it! Let’s bring out our first set of litigants. Please welcome Lauren and James! Tonight’s case: the sole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me clog, or whatever. [The guests stifle laughter as Jesse continues.] Lauren files suit against her husband, James. She has indoor slippers with hard soles that she likes to wear around the house. James is bothered when she puts her feet up on the sofa while wearing the slippers. He thinks they’re too much like shoes! Lauren says her feet get cold! And she wants to be cozy in her own home. Who’s right, who’s wrong? Only one can decide. Please rise—metaphorically—as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers an obscure cultural reverence!
john
When Jane woke up in the middle of the night, she discovered she had been sleepwalking. She was in the kitchen, but she couldn’t recall getting out of bed and coming downstairs. The kitchen was silent. The only sound was from the softly purring refrigerator—the only light was from the moon. But because the moon was full, and because the kitchen had quite a few windows, there was enough light to see by. Jane was standing at the counter, near the sink. She had opened one of the drawers and had taken a butcher knife out of it. Bailiff Jesse Thorn, swear them in. [The crowd laughs.]
jesse
Lauren and James, please raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever?
lauren
I do.
james
I do.
jesse
Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman’s ruling, despite the fact that he has no feet, only a second set of legs below his larger legs? [The guests and audience laugh.]
james
I do.
lauren
I do.
jesse
Judge Hodgman?
john
[Struggling through laughter. The audience and guests laugh as well.] Lauren—how did—
jesse
It’s the last night! We’re getting weird! [The audience cheers.] What’s even the premise of that joke?
john
I keep—[laughs] how did you—how did you know about my sub-legs? [Jesse laughs.] Take off my shoes and other legs come out of that. It’s ‘cause we—you know, ‘cause we’re on the road. We’re traveling. We’re sharing with each other. We’re seeing each other’s feet, which is something that Lauren and James don’t like to do. [The audience laughs.] Lauren and James, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors: can either of you name the piece of culture that I read as I entered the courtroom? And I’m gonna give you a—I’m gonna give you an advantage, here. ‘Cause you—this case is about slippers. And not a lot of great movies, books, and songs are written about slippers.
james
Really?
john
Really had a hard time figuring out a slipper-themed quote. The—now, I’m suddenly realizing you each have a pair of slippers, which I do not understand. I thought this was about one pair of slippers.
lauren
So did I.
james
The originals.
john
But I feel like I turned around and some elves came and made more. [The audience and guests laugh several times.] Like, at the end of this case, I feel like we’re all gonna—this whole stage is gonna be buried in slippers. The only thing that I could come up with that was in any way interesting to me, was that there is a style of men’s slipper called the Prince Albert slipper, named for the prince consort of Queen Victoria: a black, crushed velvet slipper that is to be worn as in—in a—as formal attire by gentlemen of the Victorian Era, giving dinner parties. And I realize, that was very interesting to me, but not to anyone else in the world. [The guests, Jesse, and the audience laugh.] And also, it brings out—
jesse
Well, John, I’m not here to contradict you. [John agrees.] But somebody on this stage—I won’t say who—just received in the mail, a copy of the—of the art book, The Gentleman’s Slipper. [John makes a sound of delighted surprise.] Which is exclusively photographs of such shoes. They had to order it from England, but I’m not saying who it was.
john
Well, in any case, Prince Albert himself said nothing memorable in his lifetime for me to quote. And the only quotes about Prince Albert were by Sarah Ferguson—she wrote a book about him. So, I didn’t wanna do that. So, instead I had—I had—grasping at straws, I noticed—in the greenroom, here at the lovely State Theatre, in Portland—a wildly diverse array of reading material. Books left behind by traveling acts and bands that reflected no single bibliographic vision. Just a bunch of old junk books. So, I grabbed at random a paragraph from one of these books. And to give you—since you can’t possibly guess, I will make it multiple choice for you. These are four books that are upstairs right now. I have photographic evidence, if you need to see it, doubters. That passage was from one of these four books and you may each make a choice, but you can’t pick the same one. Was that passage from: [laughs] Careless in Red, by Elizabeth George. The Mask, by Dean Koontz. The Corrections, by Johnathan Franzen. Or Letters to Penthouse, Volume 15. [The audience hoots and laughs. Jesse giggles.] Which, impossibly, exists and was printed in print. In the year 2015, I checked.
jesse
People don’t always have Wi-Fi!
john
So, uh, let’s see. Lauren, why don’t you guess first?
lauren
[Laughing.] Uh, Letters to Penthouse.
john
Letters to Penthouse is Lauren’s guess. I’ll make a note of it. There we go.
jesse
This is the Judge John Hodgman podcast, after dark, after all.
john
That’s right. Uh, James. What is your guess? If you have one. Do you remember the—
james
I’m just gonna go with B. Who knows? The second one. I’ll go with the second one.
john
Uuh, well, since you can’t name it, I can’t give it to you. [James laughs.] ‘Cause it was B. The Mask, by Dean Koontz.
james
Well, it’s been good. Thank you.
john
Yeah. [Suddenly yelling.] No, no, no! [James and Lauren laugh.] You didn’t even bother to remember the names that I offered you. [The audience laughs.] Lauren did, though. Alright. So, who seeks justice before this court?
lauren
I do.
john
Lauren, what is the nature of your dispute?
lauren
So, I have these very comfy slippers. As you can see.
john
Yes, you are holding them here. Mm-hm. Yes.
lauren
I am. And James thinks it’s disgusting when I put my feet up on the couch while I’m wearing them, even though they’re—
john
Put your feet up on the couch.
lauren
Yeah, if I’m lounging.
john
Sure, if you’re lounging on the couch.
jesse
Lauren, can you describe the slippers in question? [John thanks him.]
lauren
Yes. They have shearling inside and they’re a hard rubber on the bottom. [John hums in agreement.] They’re an L.L. Bean slipper. You know. I’m sure half the people here have them, but you know. [Jesse chuckles.]
john
That the—you are required, by law, to buy them I believe. [Lauren and the audience laugh.] As a resident of the state of Maine.
lauren
That’s true! That’s true.
james
When I immigrated, I had to.
jesse
They come with your Subaru. [James and Lauren agree. The audience laughs.]
lauren
Which we also have. [Jesse and John chuckle.]
john
Does anyone here have the L.L. Bean—the— [John stammers into a chuckle and the others laugh, too.] The L.L. Bean edition Subaru? It’s a thing that exists. Right? I’m not making that up. Does anyone have it? [The audience goes very quiet. Distantly, an audience member can be heard saying a decisive, “No.”] Interesting. [Everyone laughs.] Too good for the L.L. Bean edition Subaru. [Jesse agrees.] Okay, so, you wear—you wear these in the house. You live here, in Maine. [Lauren confirms.] Where do you live, if I may ask?
lauren
We live in Westbrook.
john
In Westbrook.
lauren
Mm-hm. Just over the line.
john
Just over the line. [Lauren confirms.] That means something, I suppose? Okay good, yeah.
lauren
In Portland, yeah. [James agrees.] Yeah.
john
And, James—you don’t like these slippers?
james
No, well—I think, to clarify, it’s not just putting her feet up on the sofa, wearing these. [John affirms.] She’ll bring the trash out in these, in winter, in snow, in dirt. [John makes a sound of understanding.] They’ve also been worn in bed when she’s cold. [Sounds of shock and disgust from the crowd followed by laughter.] I submitted a photo of proof that she wore these in bed.
jesse
When you say worn in bed, do you mean worn on bed? Or worn—
james
In bed.
crosstalk
Jesse: Wow. John: Under the covers? James: Yeees. Jesse: Wow.
james
So, that cold night—you roll over and you—touch off her foot? No, no, it’s a rubber sole. [John shouts a sound of disgust.] Yeah. [Jesse makes a sound of shock.]
john
When—when you—when—I mean, you know—they’re—
jesse
You sought but comfort. [John and James agree.]
lauren
Can I—can I clarify a little bit?
john
There’s nothing more romantic in Maine than, in the dead of winter, reaching over… betwixt the flannel L.L. Bean sheets, to touch your loved one’s foot. [The audience howls with laughter.]
james
It writes itself.
john
Now, I noticed you have an accent. Based on your accent, may I presume that you are from Swan’s Island, Maine? [Lauren laughs.]
james
Close! Very close. Yeah. [Laughs.] No, Dublin, Ireland.
john
Dublin, Ireland! Welcome. How long have you lived in Maine?
james
Four years.
john
And what brought you to this country?
james
My lovely wife.
john
Your lovely wife. Uh, so, Lauren—do you—how do you respond to these accusations? ‘Cause that’s gross stuff? [James thanks him.]
lauren
I agree! So, I had—these are new slippers and I have never worn them outside. And he is submitting old evidence.
crosstalk
John: Oh! These are the old—! Lauren: I have changed my ways!
john
These are the oldies? [James agrees.]
lauren
Those are the oldies. He—this is last minute evidence that he’s submitting.
john
So, James—
james
For the last eight years—
john
James, you are holding a pair of slippers. These are the older slippers. [James agrees several times.] Lauren tried to deceive this court with a pair of fresh, clean slippers. As though I was—as—because, to me, those fresh, clean slippers look like perfectly good house shoes. Though, not—
james
Correct, they are.
john
[With disgust.] —bed shoes. [The audience and James laugh.] But James, you know better and you brought the original pair. How would you—Lauren described her pair of slippers. How would you, using the most colorful, Dublin slang possible—
jesse
No blarney!
john
—describe these? And you know, you say it in your own words. Whatever comes to mind.
james
Keeping it clean, they’re pretty mangy.
john
Pretty mangy.
james
I’ll keep it clean. [Laughs.]
john
It’s the same—it’s the exact same brand, but obviously much older. [They agree.] They look like—they look like they were—the shearling was taken from a very elderly sheep. [Everyone laughs.] And may I see the soles? [Beat.] I see. Mm-hm. Well, they actually—
james
Careful.
john
That’s fine. They actually look pretty clean, these soles. I mean, they’re a little darkened, obviously. I wouldn’t wanna touch them in bed. [The audience laughs.] Lauren! How are you—why are you wearing them in bed?!
jesse
We’re not gonna shame anyone.
john
How dare you wear your slippers in bed?!
lauren
It’s cold!
john
It’s not a—it’s not even a question. [The audience and Jesse laugh.]
lauren
It’s cold, like, ten months of the year here. And I’m freezing!
john
No, I understand—I understand. Are you from this area, originally?
lauren
I am.
john
You are. So, you know. Have you always—did you grow up—it’s it a Maine—it is a cultural, Maine, Westbrook kind of just-over-the-line thing? [Everyone laughs.] To wear the same footwear that you take the garbage out in, into bed?
lauren
Well, we have a new house and I have not worn those since we moved.
john
Don’t dodge the question, Lauren. [The audience laughs.] How long have you been wearing your slippers into bed?
lauren
Oh, I still wear these ones into bed, ‘cause I’m cold. [Someone in the audience screams, “Nooo!” Everyone laughs.] They’re clean! They’re house shoes! [The same person from the audience screams a longer, “Noooo!”]
john
Have you… heard of… socks?! [Lauren laughs.]
james
Thank you!
lauren
They make my feet sweat. These don’t.
john
They—[shocked and horrified] what are you talking about?! [Everyone laughs.] How?! How, in Westbrook, is it possible?! That socks make your feet sweat, but those shearling slippers do not?!
lauren
Well, I can kick them off, too, if I get hot. I can’t kick socks off in the middle of the night.
john
Have you considered getting a separate pair of slippers to wear in bed?
lauren
No.
john
No. James is shaking his head.
james
Don’t give ideas. [The audience cackles.]
john
So, you—you would not want her to wear—I mean, it’s not a—merely a cleanliness issue. It is you want her bare feet in bed with you.
james
No! I don’t mind socks! Socks is a compromise I’ll work with.
john
Yeah, but she can’t kick off the socks. And take it from me, if there’s someone who sleeps in your bed with socks on, and they kick off their socks while they sleep? Then within three days, there are 45 pairs of socks. [The audience laughs.]
james
So, the photo I submitted for evidence was myself making the bed, finding multiple slippers in the bed.
john
Multiples!?
james
‘Cause it’s all piled up under the covers!
john
[In disbelief.] Wait! How many pairs do you have, Lauren?
lauren
It’s the—the pair!
crosstalk
John and Jesse: It’s the pair.
john
So, by “multiple”, do you mean two, James? [The audience laughs.]
james
No, four. [Lauren denies it.]
john
Four, now?
lauren
Those were in the closet. He dug those out, tonight.
john
Yeah, but you still own them.
lauren
I don’t—I forgot that I own them.
john
Boy, it must be nice, living—
james
They’re in her wardrobe.
john
You know, in Maine, you have—you have different storage options than in New York City. [Everyone laughs.] You never forget that you have a pair of slippers. You can’t just throw them into your storage pod or whatever and come find them later. Uh—[sighs]. So, James… how does it make you feel when your—when your foot seeks to find your beloved’s foot and you feel the coarse, rough, hard, L.L. Bean rubber? With maybe just a soupçon of garbage on them? [The audience erupts into laughter.]
james
[Chuckling.] It’s pretty weird. It’s uncomfortable. Yeah.
john
And has—have you ever asked Lauren to modify her behavior?
james
On numerous occasions over the years, yeah. [Laughs.]
john
And whyyy—what does she say, when you ask her?
james
I’ve made no inroads. That’s why we’re here. [Laughs.]
john
Right. [Chuckles.] But she doesn’t say—she doesn’t—Lauren, you don’t say, “Uuuh—I know it’s wrong but I’m doing it anyway?”
lauren
Right, ‘cause it’s not wrong.
john
You just say— [A horrified beat.]
jesse
Oooh. [James agrees.]
john
So, you just say, “No, I’m not gonna change.”
lauren
Well, it’s mostly his approach. ‘Cause he just scoffs or it’s like, “That’s disgusting.”
john
Oh! That’s not asking.
crosstalk
James: I’ve asked, too! Lauren: No, that’s not asking! John: Okay.
james
I’ve asked too. I’ve asked too, but it becomes… when you’ve asked often enough, you don’t get that far, I’m…
john
Then it just becomes scoffing. [James agrees.] Have you ever, as my—
james
It’s basic manners.
john
As my—as my character in Parks and Recreation, as scripted by Megan Amram, as—uh, said to her, simply, [deeply] “Scoff.” [Everyone laughs.]
crosstalk
James: I’m not there, yet. John: Okay, alright. James: Getting there. Lauren: Close.
john
Uh, obviously this disgusts your husband. I presume you care about him. [Lauren confirms.] Why not seek a common ground?
lauren
[Beat.] ‘Cause they’re clean shoes! Or, not shoes.
james
(this might also be John, but it sounds like there’s a slight accent to it.)[Yelling.] They’re shoes!
john
[Yelling.] Let the record show! [The audience laughs and applauds.]
lauren
[Horrified.] Noooo!
john
Let the record show, she admitted they were shoes! House shoes, perhaps! [Emphatically.] But shoes to be sure!
lauren
[Collecting herself from laughter.] Can I say that I think that the mental barrier for James is that we’ve seen many a teen and college student wear these as shoes, in public, in Maine. [Someone in the audience makes a disgusted sound.]
john
Suuure. Are you in a—is Westbrook a college town.
lauren
No. [John affirms.] But if we’re going to the movies or something, there’s always someone wearing these.
john
Oh, I have no—look, I have no doubt—
lauren
And it’s gross.
john
—that when you drive 13 hours to go to the movies… [The audience and Lauren laugh.] That you are seeing young college students, in Maine, wearing all manner of non-shoe shoes. [James agrees.] I have no doubt that you are seeing many grown and happy adults wearing slippers into the movies, in Maine. That’s what Maine is all about. [Everyone laughs.]
lauren
There’s some cultural things, there, I think. [Inaudible.]
john
How would you explain the cultural difference to James? Like, “You know, once it’s winter and it’s Maine, we basically just [censored] give up.” [Lauren agrees.] And yeah.
jesse
Alternately! “Here in Maine, we nasty!” [The audience howls with laughter.]
john
Yeah!
lauren
Well, I think it started when he moved over. We went to a friend’s wedding, like, two weeks later and nice wedding. And [laughing] someone was wearing cargo shorts. [The audience boos.]
crosstalk
James: I was better dressed than the groom. Lauren: And he didn’t know—he didn’t know what he was getting himself into. So.
john
Have you no—have you no—I mean, coming from Ireland, there is—obviously—a—I think, that some—a different standard of casual vs. formal dress in the United States, in general. [James agrees.] And in Maine, specifically.
james
It’s a new level.
john
This is a—this is a pretty caszh place. [James agrees emphatically.] And how would you describe what you’re seeing?
james
Um, by the first adjustment—was people not taking a hat off at a restaurant. [John agrees.] That took me a couple years to adjust.
john
Yeah, that’s uh—that’s—
james
That was a weird one.
jesse
I’m with you. Nobody should ever, ever, ever—there’s no circumstance where you should wear a hat indoors. [James and John agree and Lauren cackles.]
john
Essentially you’re signally to the establishment that you don’t trust them to keep the rain out. [Everyone laughs.] Do—but cargo—cargo shorts at a Maine wedding is pretty—pretty down the middle.
lauren
That’s standard.
james
Yeah, no one was shocked by that. I had a nice, three-piece suit. I polished my shoes, cleaned up, and… that was—
jesse
James, I’m sure when you—
john
Did they—they all ask you, like, for hors d’oeuvres and stuff? [Everyone laughs.]
james
They probably thought I was officiating.
jesse
James, I’m sure when you moved from Dublin, to the United States, you were confident that you could find a place with worse weather than Dublin.
james
That was my goal.
jesse
The one place on Earth. Uuuh—how does weather factor into your feelings about this? Because while—while Ireland is in a constant state of bone-chilling damp, it doesn’t get nearly as cooold there as it does, here.
james
Yeah. That is true. And I do understand that, with slippers in the house. Cold feet. That’s fine. We still turn up the heat. You can still put on socks. [Helplessly.] Come on. [Jesse wheezes into a laugh.] I thought Ireland—
lauren
It’s not that hot in the house. [The audience laughs.]
james
Ireland’s rain and cold somehow gets into your bones. That’s a colder weather than the snow.
john
Yeah, and it transforms your personality. [James agrees several times.] Yes. Same here! [The audience laughs.]
james
But we have these shoes that you wear outdoors if you have to deal with the snow and whatever. [John agrees.] You take them off and you can put on these kind of shoes. You still take them off before you go to bed.
john
These kinds of slippers, right. [James chuckles.] In Ireland, when it’s very, very cold what does—what—is there—what does one wear to bed, on their feet, if anything?
james
Noth—I’ve never worn anything in bed on my feet! [John agrees.]
lauren
‘Cause he’s a furnace! He is like a human furnace.
john
Right, it’s just called Irish Nude Feet. Yes. [James agrees.] [The audience laughs.] What did you say?
lauren
He’s like a human furnace.
john
It—oh, he runs hot? [Lauren and James agree.] Oh, interesting!
lauren
And I’m freezing all the time.
john
Yeah, well that’s—you know, there’s that as well. So, if I were to rule in your favor, James, how would you have me rule?
james
I actually want a pretty middle ground. I’m willing to purchase wool socks or something warm for her feet.
john
Socks will not work, James.
james
No! Then she’ll have to have bare feet. I’ll sleep happy, then.
john
Bare feet or… nothing.
james
Bust!
john
Right. [James laughs.] Bare feet or nothing is kind of, uh—kind of redundant to say. Okay.
jesse
James, everyone knows wool socks make your feet sweat. Wearing an entire sheep on your feet doesn’t! [Everyone laughs.]
john
That’s right! Shearling [with an exaggerated glottal ‘r’] brrrreathes!
jesse
To be fair, a sheep that’s been turned inside-out.
james
I could arrange that.
john
Yeah, and also wool socks wont do it. What you need is to wear shearling slippers with your feet wrapped up in saran wrap, as well. [James agrees with a chuckle.]
john
Lauren, if I were to rule in your favor, how would you have me rule?
lauren
I would like to continue wearing my slippers on the couch. I will compromise and not wear them in bed.
john
And are you gonna wear these new slippers out to take out the garbage and such?
lauren
No! I never have.
john
Not so far.
lauren
Not so far.
john
But history shows, you’re able to do it.
lauren
[Laughing.] Yes. I will not—I won’t. I won’t take them…
john
Let the record show that Lauren is giving me a suspicious look that I don’t fully trust. [The audience laughs.] Don’t full trust she’s not gonna go out there, sometime.
lauren
I promise. I promise.
john
Just take that garbage out real quick, when James isn’t looking. Just tip-tip-tip-tip toe. On little cat—on little cat slipper feet. [James laughs.] Take out the recycling. Weeell, I’m gonna have to believe you ‘cause you’re under fake oath. I think I’ve heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. I’m going to go into my chambers. I’ll be back in a moment with my verdict.
jesse
Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exists the courtroom. [The audience cheers and applauds.] Lauren, how do you feel about your chances, in this case?
lauren
I felt really good going into it, and now I’m not so sure.
jesse
On what basis did you feel good going into it? [The audience as well as Lauren and James erupt with laughter.] I guess just, like, my point is—you know what you did.
lauren
I just felt righteous, you know?
jesse
Is this, like, something you’ve checked in with other people about?! [Lauren confirms.] Like, “You wear shoes inside the bed, right?!” And they’re like, “Yeah, girlfriend! I do!”
lauren
Yes! [Jesse and James laugh helplessly.]
jesse
James, uh, how are you feeling about your chances in the case/chances of continuing [laughing] to live in America?
james
So, part A: confident. Part B: not so much. [Laughs.]
jesse
Yeah, okay, well, we’ll—
james
It’s been a good run.
jesse
We’ll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about it. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom and presents his verdict. [The audience applauds.]
john
You may be seated. [The audience applause fades out.] James, I am—I am also a stranger to Maine. You know, I grew up in Massachusetts. [Someone in the audience “woo”s. A few others echo it or whistle.] Thank you very much. I have lived and continue to live very happily, most of the time, in Brooklyn, New York. [Scattered cheers from the audience.] And—sure. [Everyone laughs.] That is a burrow that needs no cheering. We’re fine. Not an underdog. And—but Maine is the place that has been selected for me, by my wife, as the place I will die. So. [Everyone laughs. There’s scattered applause.] And—
jesse
The hole’s been dug!
john
[Laughs.] Pretty much. And we—you know, we spend a big chunk of the summer up here, because my wife teaches high school and I do this. And… more and more often, we have been coming during the colder months, during the darker months, where it is more appropriate for my rehearsal of death. And I enjoy it tremendously. It is—it is—but it is, hard. [James agrees several times as John continues.] I mean, you know, the—while climate change is causing the winters to veer back and forth between extremely cold and extremely, weirdly mild and unnervingly warm—you know, it wasn’t a couple of years ago that we were up here for a week when the temperature did not get above 15 degrees. And that is—that gets into your bones and gets really into your mind when you—you know, when you’re just like—the furnace is on all the way and you’re wearing all your clothes. [Scattered laughter.] Like, you—yeah, I was definitely going to bed with several pairs of shoes on, at that time. [Everyone laughs.] As you’ve noticed about Maine, not only do you have this mind warping sort of traumatic climate that even in the best of times wants you to die—even, you know—but also, you have—and I think, appropriately, a culture of people leaving each other alone about their choices. And I think that that is one of the things that makes Maine really very special, because it reminds you—particularly, I mean, Portland’s a big city. [The audience erupts into laughter.] But most of Maine, of course, is small communities that suffer through long, dark periods of time where everyone is just doing the best they can. And they have to just let each other be, to some degree. And so, it is not surprising to me that Lauren—you’re a native of Maine?
lauren
Yes.
john
Yeah, it’s not surprising to me that—well, wait a minute. You’re a—your parents are from Maine? [Lauren confirms.] Your grandparents are from Maine? [Lauren confirms again.] Oh, so you are a native of Maine? Alright, yeah.
lauren
I’m technically a Mainer. [Everyone laughs.]
john
It’s not surprising to me that Lauren has benefitted from a generational, genetic disfigurement. [Everyone laughs.] That causes her not to think twice about wearing her garbage shoes into the bed. Because most of what we do, in Maine, is done under the cover of cold, winter darkness. Who the hell is watching? Now, you are here to peer in, with your civilized Irish eyes.
james
That are not smiling.
john
What’s that?
james
That are not smiling.
john
That are not smiling! That’s right! When Irish eyes are glaring with disgusting contempt! [The audience and Lauren laugh.] Now, most people who enter into a marriage and someone sees them—you know, ‘cause that’s what is interesting about marriage, right? Is you’re joining the most intimate parts of your lives. You’re letting your spouse see parts of you, physically and emotionally and psychologically, that you would never let the rest of the world see. And, a lot of the time, what happens when couples join and they see themselves through the lens of their partner’s Irish eyes, for example, they’re like, “Oh, right. I can’t be wearing shoes to bed. That’s terrible.” Right? But Lauren is just too Maine to do that. It’s like, “I don’t understand. You see what I’m doing, right? This is on purpose.” [Lauren giggles.] So, [laughs]… So, this is all to say, Lauren, I sympathize with you. I admire your spirit. Honestly—as a—as a—as an aspirational, non-native, Maine resident, I really should just leave you alone and let you pull down the window shade and just let you do whatever you’re gonna do, in your house. But you do share your house with James. And it is undeniable that wearing your—wearing your house shoes—which are necessary, in Maine, right? Because out there, there’s all kinds of racoon poop and things to walk through. [James and Lauren laugh.] It’s messy out there. Particularly, you know, mud season and everything else. You do need a pair of house shoes if you’re not just gonna wear socks or bare feet in the house, right? So, it’s good that you have those house shoes. But those house shoes have to be house shoes. And that means you cannot go outside in them. I know. I do it too. I do it all the time. [The audience erupts into laughter.] I wear my slippers outside. I know you all do, too. But this—this is—for the purposes of—the purposes of people listening to this podcast, elsewhere, we have to pretend to be civilized. You understand. I definitely wear my slippers and bring out the garbage when I’m in Maine. For sure I do. For sure I do. I do it. But I don’t wear them in bed! [The audience cheers and claps while James and Lauren laugh.] [Laughing.] I have no doubt—I have no doubt that if you were to go to your favorite Maine-based, mandatory retailer… [Everyone laughs.]
jesse
Vermont Country Store.
john
[Laughing.] Yes. [He gets himself together.] Vermont Country Store sells old shampoos from the ‘70s. In my—in my own house, in Maine, I have a couple of bottles of “Gee, Your Hair Smells Terrific” that I got from there. [Everyone laughs.] I bet if you were to go to that retailer—not the Vermont Country Store—they probably have not one, not two, but maybe five different varieties of shoes that may be even specifically to be worn in bed. Different slippers for your bed. Sorry, James. Her feet are cold! You’re a human furnace. You—[laughs] you’re a throbbing, flaming heart of passion. Just like all Irishmen.
jesse
You’re a burning chunk of bog moss. [Everyone laughs.]
john
Just get some bed shoes! That’s what we all deserve, in life! Some decent bed shoes! You already have—like, you’re already keeping in your house not one, but two pairs of these shearling slippers! Throw those garbage ones away and replace them with bed shoes. This is the sound of a gavel. [Three muffled clicking sounds.] Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. [The audience cheers.]
jesse
Lauren and James! Thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast! [The sound of cheers fades out.]
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
promo
[Dramatic Star Wars-esque music playing in the background.] Speaker 1: [In dramatic movie narrator voice] You wept as we crafted the tragic tale of Jar-Jar: A Star Wars Story. Speaker 2: Do you mean, like, he forgives Darth Vader— Speaker 3: [Laughs.] Speaker 2: “Mesa still love you, Ani!” Speakers 3 & 4: [Laughs boisterously.] Speaker 1: You gasped out loud at the shocking twists of Face/Off 2: Faces Wild. Speaker 5: [Dramatically] He takes his kid’s face. Speaker 6: … What? [Laughs.] Speaker 1: Now, we’re writing an entire screenplay week by week on Story Break Season 2: Heaven Heist. [Music climaxes, then ceases. Is replaced by mellow synth jazz.] Freddie Wong: Hey, folks. Freddie Wong here with some exciting news about Story Break, the writers’ room podcast where three Hollywood professionals have one hour to spin cinematic gold! We’re shaking up our format by turning Heaven Heist—one of our favorite ideas we’ve ever come up with on the show—into a full screenplay. Speaker: Heaven Heist is an action-comedy about a crew of misfit gangsters robbing the Celestial Bank of Heaven. Think of Coco means Point Break. Freddie: Join us as we write this crazy movie scene-by-scene and get an inside look at the screenwriting process on our podcast, Story Break, every Thursday on MaximumFun.org. [Music ceases.]
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
promo
Music: Dramatic organ/piano music. [Background noise throughout: a howling wolf and cawing crow. April speaks in a sinister voice.] April Wolfe: Hello there, ghouls and gals. It is I, April Wolfe. I'm here to take you through the twisty, sca-a-a-ry, heart-pounding world of genre cinema on the exhilarating program known as Switchblade Sisters. [Sinister echo on the title.] The concept is simple: I invite a female filmmaker on each week, and we discuss their favorite genre film. Listen in closely to hear past guests, like The Babadook director Jennifer Kent, Winter's Bone director Debra Granik, and so many others every Thursday on MaximumFun.org. Tune in! If you dare... [Thunder booms, something growls over April as she cackles evilly, and then all sound abruptly cuts.] April: [Rapidly] It's actually a very thought-provoking show that deeply explores the craft and philosophy behind the filmmaking process while also examining film through the lens of the female gaze. So, like, you should listen. [Same sinister echo effect] Switchblade Sisters!
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
jesse
[Applause from the crowd fades back in.] John, that was a lot of fun. I think we should have some more music.
john
Yeah! Can’t we hear some more music, please? From Joel Mann, Chris Poulin, and Steve Orlofsky—the Night & Day trio. We’ll talk to them a little bit after they play another song for you. But it looks like you guys are ready to go? Alright, let’s hear some jazz, Castine style! [Scattered applause.]
music
A brassy jazz cover of the song “Route 66” from the band Night & Day. If you have a plan to motor west Take the highway and travel my way ‘Cause it’s the best Get your kicks on route sixty-six It winds from Chicago to LA More than two thousand miles, It’s all the way Get your kicks on route sixty-six ‘Cause it runs to Saint Louis Joplin, Missouri Oklahoma City looks so darn pretty You see Amarillo, Gallup, New Mexico, Flagstaff, Arizona Don’t forget Winona Kingman, Barstow, San Bernardino Won’t you get hip to the timely tip If you make the California trip Get your kicks on route one-sixty-six It winds to Saint Louis Joplin, Missouri, Oklahoma City looks so darn pretty You see Amarillo, Gallup, New Mexico, Flagstaff, Arizona Don’t forget Winona Kingman, Barstow, San Bernardino Won’t you get hip to the timely tip If you make the Castine trip Get your kicks on route one-sixty-six Get your kicks on route one-sixty-six Get your kicks on route one-sixty-six [The audience cheers and applauds.]
jesse
Let’s hear it for the Night & Day jazz trio! [An eruption of cheers.]
john
That’s Steve Orlofsky on wind, Chris Poulin on guitar, and our own guest producer—Joel Mann—on—laying down the bass! So, [stammering]—I was so excited when I saw Mr. O when I came in, because I’m a huge fan of the GSA Jazz Band. Uh, they play every summer—or every Labor Day, I should say, at the Blue Hill Fair. It’s such a delight. They’re such a great band. And I saw them two summers ago and I was—I really enjoyed it. And the energy that you bring, leading the band, is so great. And then this summer I promised everyone who follows me on Instagram that I would live-Instagram the whole show. And so, during the Blue Hill Fair, in the afternoon at the grandstand, I stood on the racetrack—down from the stands—to get close to them. And I was filming them the entire time. And after a period of time, I was beginning to feel like a weird creep. [The audience laughs.] ‘Cause I didn’t ask anyone if I could [laughing] do this! The band is all teenagers, you know? It’s like, weird, that this moustache man… is, like, filming the whole thing, putting it on Instagram live, right now. And at one point I sensed, out of the corner of my eye, a Maine state trooper walking towards me. [The audience laughs.] [Through laughter.] And I’m like—and I’m like, I don’t wanna get in trouble. Just keep walking, dude. Just keep walking. I’m just trying to film this. And he—and he walks and then he doesn’t keep walking. He stops. And he stops and he stands right here. I’m like, [whispering] oh god, here I go. Gotta go to jail. And I turn to him. I go, “Yes?” And he goes, “Oh! Can I get by?” [Laughs.] He didn’t wanna walk in front of my camera. The Maine state trooper goes [a beat while John demonstrates his walking]. It was the greatest. And Joel, of course—WERU—spins the platters and moves some knobs and dials around and teaches me about psychedelic rock. Joe Bird and the Field Hippies is your band, right? I mean, was your fave.
joel mann
That’s right. [John agrees.] My favorite.
john
Any other wackadoo band names you need me to know about, Joel?
joel
No.
john
Alright. [The audience laughs.] Joel, you may notice, is somewhat taciturn. He’s famous for it on the podcast. We’re gonna move into a new segment here called “Swift Justice”, where we hear three cases in quick succession. Joel, would you mind standing around to lob a syllable from time to time into the conversation?
joel
Okay. [John agrees.] You got it.
john
Another round of applause to the—for the Night & Day trio. [The audience claps and cheers.] Jesse Thorn, will you please bring the first litigants out?
jesse
Please welcome to the stage: Jacinda and Louis.
john
Jacinda and Louis, welcome. [The audience cheers.]
music
Night & Day plays a jazzy walk-on number for the new litigants.
john
Jacinda and Louis, everybody. That was their walk-on music, fantastic!
joel
Thank you.
john
So, who—
jesse
[Yelling.] This isn’t your show, guys! [The audience laughs.]
john
Easy there, Joel. So, who here seeks justice before this court? And you are Jacinda? [Jacinda confirms.] And what is the nature of your dispute?
jacinda
Okay, the nature of the dispute is Louis and I have our own shows on the—on TV. [John affirms several times.] Our shows and then movies we watch together. And the dispute is Louis just takes a really long time—
john
This is all we have in life anymore, right? [Jacinda agrees with a laugh.]
john
Our shows.
jacinda
In Maine!
john
Our shows in Maine, in the dark.
jacinda
I was your only Brooklyn “woo” because I’m from Brooklyn.
john
Oh, you are! [Jacinda confirms.] Where are you from in Brooklyn?
jacinda
Bay Ridge.
john
Bay Ridge. [Jacinda confirms with delight.] How did you come to be here?
jacinda
I actually—funny, Lauren—I moved to Maine to farm sheep. [John reacts with surprise.] Yes! Right in Brunswick! [Scattered cheers.]
john
In Brunswick! You farmed sheep in Brunswick?!
jacinda
And I’m wearing a pair of wool socks I knitted. I—my feet don’t sweat.
john
Take off your shoes. [Scattered laughter.]
crosstalk
Louis: Are you gonna touch her feet? John: I wanna see these—no! I’m not gonna touch her feet! [The audience laughs.] John: I just wanna see her socks! Jacinda: I don’t think you— John: Now I’m gonna touch her feet! Want me to touch your feet too, sir? Louis: No thank you. John: Alright.
jesse
What’s the verdict, John!? Wet or dry!? [The audience stumbles into laughter. A member of the audience screams “moist!”]
john
Uh—Jacinda is onstage, she’s not a performer by nature, she’s under a certain amount of stress. So, I’m just a little—a little damp on the bottom. A little—I mean, I wouldn’t say sweaty, just naturally—anyone would—anyone’s feet would feel the same way. I’m sure I’m… I’m sure if Louis let me feel his feet, they’d also be damp. Well, that’s awesome. So, you raise sheep.
jacinda
Yep! For two years.
john
Oh, and then you no longer do it.
crosstalk
Jesse: This is— Jacinda: Well, no—well— Jesse: That doesn’t seem like a full— Jacinda: Well, I full-time farmed for seven years.
john
You fulltime farmed in Brunswick for seven years?
jacinda
In New Jersey, England, Maine.
john
Oh, okay. [Jacinda affirms.] And so, but now you don’t do it anymore.
jacinda
No. I run my own garden design business, now.
john
Oh, that’s great. Cool!
jacinda
Has an edible emphasis to it.
john
An edible emphasis to it. [Jacinda confirms.] So, you can’t eat those socks, though.
jacinda
No, you can’t.
john
Alright, fine. Anyway. So, you have your own—and what do you do here in Maine?
louis
I’m a real estate broker in Maine.
john
A real estate broker, in Maine. That must be… difficult. [The audience laughs.]
louis
It’s busy and then it’s dark and quiet, pretty quick.
john
Right, exactly. So, during the unbusy season, you have your shows to keep you warm. And what are your—what are the shows that you have? You have individual shows and then shows together. So, name one individual show, each, and what’s the together show?
jacinda
Well, I just started Downton Abbey, because—
john
That’s a great one! Classic! Gonna give you a little warning, though, you’re gonna see a lot of dog butt in that Downton Abbey.
jacinda
[Confused.] Dog butt?!
john
Every episode opens with the closeup of the butt of a dog walking. [The audience laughs.] It gets a little tiresome after a while.
jacinda
I’ll have to keep my eyes open. [John agrees.] I haven’t noticed yet.
louis
I think our together show is Game of Thrones, like many. [Jacinda agrees.]
john
What’s your—what’s your individual show, Louis?
louis
Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
john
Always Sunny, classic. [Scattered cheers from the audience.] Classic FX show. Alright, and your together— [Jacinda starts to speak but stops.] Sorry, go ahead.
jacinda
Oh, sorry. So, our together show, yes, Game of Thrones. But the—the real nature of the dispute is I can be a binge watcher, as I feel like most people are in the streaming era.
john
Yeah, you’re young. [Jacinda agrees.] Yeah, I got you.
jacinda
And Louis will watch twenty minutes of a show and then shut it off. [John affirms.] And then days later, maybe we’ll finish it or not, or ever. And it’s the same thing with movies. So, we’ll get like halfway through a riveting movie, and then it’s like, “Okay, it’s time to go to bed.” I’m like—[squeaks]. [John agrees.] So, almost seven years of this. Okay.
john
Well, you know, but Louis has to get up early to sling those houses. [Jacinda agrees with a laugh.]
louis
I think it’s very appropriate to stop a movie partway through and circle back around to it.
john
Uuuuuh…
louis
That’s the point of streaming.
john
Uuuuuh…
jesse
That’s the point of streaming?!
jacinda
So, anyway [laughs]—
jesse
[Dramatically.] I’ve got an idea that’ll entertain the—that’ll revolutionize the entertainment industry, John! We’ll stream movies directly into people’s homes, so they can stop them and then start them later! [John cackles.] Unlike on every other home entertainment technology since broadcast television! VHS tapes, laserdiscs, DVDs, Blu-rays, etc.—all of which could not be stopped and started later.
john
Technological crankiness aside, movies were not made to be watched for a little bit, then stopped, then started over, then… [The audience laughs.] Howev—I mean, so, I’m not—I won’t agree with you that’s it’s appropriate. But I will agree with you as an older person who falls asleep very easily. It is sometimes totally inevitable. I mean, my version of binge watching is watching the same episode of Watchmen over and over again, because even though there have only been four episodes, I don’t remember which ones I watched.
louis
And therein lies part of the problem. I won’t fall asleep in front of a TV, but she will. And then she wakes up and asks what has happened for the last 20 minutes, so… [John makes a sound of surprise.] It’s the perfect time to stop. [John agrees.] 20 minutes ago.
john
So—right! So, this sounds like a perfect—a perfect marriage. You fall asleep in the middle of a Game of Thrones or whatever. And that’s a good time—Louis has to stop it and pick it up again, like, the next day, right?
louis
Yeah. Turn the lights off slowly and slowly turn the volume down. And then just disappear for the night.
crosstalk
Jesse: Carry her back to the bed! John: You’re literally—you’re almost literally describing the plot of the movie Gaslight. [Everyone laughs.]
john
Like, when [laughs]—when you’re watch—when you’re watching a Game of Thrones and you’re—and you—how does it happen that Jacinda will fall asleep? Do you—do you notice that she’s falling asleep and say, “Hey, should we shut it off and pick this up later?”
louis
I just notice she’s asleep and then slowly shut it off. I don’t—I don’t even ask.
john
And then you just leave her sleeping there, on the couch, and go to bed by yourself?
louis
No, she’ll usually spring awake surprised and ask what happened and then…
john
Oh, I see! [Jacinda starts to speak several times, but only stammers through laughter.] Oh, the reasoning you’re doing the slow—the slow turn off—
louis
Keep her asleep.
john
Right, is because if you—if you just turn it off, then Jacinda, you’ll jump up and go, [emphatically] “No, we’re gonna keep watching!”
jacinda
[Laughs.] Yes. Yes, like the addict I am. [John affirms.] Well, okay, so the real, real nature of the dispute is—
john
Oh, right, sorry. [The audience laughs.]
jacinda
The real, real nature is that now I started watching Rhythm + Flow. Anyone? [Sheepishly.] Heeey, hooo, anyone? [Scattered cheers from the audience.] Okay.
john
The—you know… [Jacinda laughs.]
jesse
Let the record reflect that Jacinda attempted to… instigate a hip-hop call and response… during a Maine humorous show, in Portland. [The audience laughs.] Where my ballas, at Portland, Maine?!
john
I’m just, like—[stutters] there’s so many shows. I don’t know that one.
jacinda
Okay. It’s the rap version of American Idol. And it’s amazing.
john
Oh, okay. It’s a competition show.
jacinda
It’s a competition show. [John affirms.] So, he came in and was like, “Oh, can this be our show?” And all of the sudden I was like, [whispers] “Oh no! This means we’re gonna finish it in six months.” And so, then I said, “Okay. It can be our show.” But really I watched it and then would rewatch it with him, when he [laughs] came home. [Scattered boos.] He knew I was doing it! He knew I was doing it!
john
You weren’t hiding the fact that you knew all the outcomes.
jacinda
And I will say, I’ve been so loyal. I always—even, you know, with our shows, I don’t do the whole “watch it, rewind it”. I will wait until we’re ready to sit down together and watch it. But then, I started watching The Dark Crystal. Puppets, anyone? [Laughs.] [The audience laughs.]
john
Yeah. That’s a Judge John Hodgman “heeeey!” Where my Skeksis aaaat!? [The audience cheers.] GELFLIIIING!
jacinda
And then he was like, “Can this be our show?” And I said, “Oh—oh, this is starting to become a pattern.” So—
john
You’re trying to take Jacinda’s shows?!
jacinda
[Laughing.] Trying to take my shows.
louis
I get very excited at the beginning and I wanna watch them all, and then maybe 30 minutes in, I get uncomfortable because the Skeksis are abusing the other Muppets. [Jesse agrees.] And I have to turn it off and grab a drink.
john
I have to turn off, ‘cause I didn’t believe the Gelflings would ever beat the Skeksis enforcers! That’s crazy! [The audience laughs.] Do you—do you watch The Dark Crystal?
jesse
I… I don’t…
john
Yeah, alright good. [Jesse laughs.] Hey, Joel Mann, you watch The Dark Crystal?
joel
No.
john
Okay. [Audience laughs.] Joel, what are you watching, these days?
joel
Schitt’s Creek. [Audience cheers.]
john
Look, I don’t know what to say. What—you’re in your 30s or something, right? Yeah. This is what—this is how it’s gonna be for the rest of your life. [The audience laughs.] Like… in your 20s, when you cared about impressing each other, you’d stay awake for the other person’s thing. You’d be like, “Yeah, I’m invested! Let’s do this together, baby! Forever!” But now, it—you know. It’s the same deal. It’s cold, it’s dark in Maine. You get tired. Everyone’s wearing fleece. It’s soporific. And you wanna turn off the thing and you wanna keep the thing going. And you wanna have shows together, but you gotta—you just—no, you’re just gonna—it’s all gonna be compromise for the rest of your lives.
jacinda
I do wanna add, Louis—
john
What do you want me to rule? I don’t understand.
jacinda
Oh! My rule is—
john
Like, ‘cause all of these—all of these—this is like—palimpsest a million Judge John Hodgman disputes that we’ve had. And I—and I don’t see what the—I don’t see what the solution is.
jacinda
The rule for me is—it was actually two things. It was, when we start a movie, we finish it—like, at that night. [John agrees.] Or at least, maybe, like a cap. Like five days or some—like, we can’t go beyond it.
john
Five-day cap on finishing a movie? [Jacinda agrees with a laugh.] What movie are you working on now? [The audience laughs.]
louis
I think Seven? Had to take a—take a pause for Seven. ‘Cause…
jacinda
Yeah, we started watching Seven.
john
Seven?!
jacinda
‘Cause this was around Halloween?
louis
Got a little graphic, little violent.
jesse
That’s one of those movies you really wanna live with for a while. [Everyone laughs.]
louis
I like to reflect on it for a little while. [John cackles.]
jacinda
And then also that if I start watching a show and he wants to come in on it, he can’t. [Laughs.] Just—
john
If he wants to come in on the show, he can’t.
jacinda
On, like, a show I—like, I’ve claimed. Like The Dark Crystal. ‘Cause—so, as soon as he claimed it, I was—I was pumping through. I was three episodes in. I’m like, “Oh, yeah! I’m loving this!” [John agrees.] We haven’t watched it in a month! Because—
john
Right, because you’re waiting on him. [Jacinda agrees.] Yeah. You know what, it’s fine.
jacinda
[Through laughter.] It’s fine?! Okay!
john
And what would you—what do you want, Louis? You want to be able to claim any show you want? And then set your own time scale?
louis
I should have claim to three shows, and the rest can be hers. And I get to break them up how my sleep patterns see fit.
john
Three shows over what period of time? Seven years?! Because you’re… [The audience laughs.] It’s gonna take you that long to finish anything.
jacinda
We started watching Stranger Things in July, and we—we’re on the last episode. And like, I don’t know.
louis
I’m savoring it.
john
Well, season which? Season one?!
jacinda
Season three. [John affirms.] Yeah. It’s fine. He savors.
louis
It’s like a Reese’s. You don’t eat it all at once. You just—
john
You’re savoring it.
louis
You nibble it.
john
Yeah, but maybe that’s your show. Maybe that’s not the show you watch together.
louis
Yeah. We should have some. And then I should step in on her shows and claim it and then…
crosstalk
John: You don’t step in on her— Jesse: [In horror.] You nibble on the—?! Louis: [Inaudible] it later. John: Here’s—here’s the—here’s the deal. Jacinda: Louis grew up in Maine. John: Yes Louis: Thank you. Jacinda: And was only allowed—
john
Where in Maine?
louis
Up the coast in Camden. Pretty close to that witch shop. [John affirms.] I was there this weekend!
john
Yeah, fantastic! Yeah, the—yeah. Does Camden have its own witch shop?
louis
Oh god, no. [John affirms.]
jacinda
It has a psychic shop, though. All of the sudden, it—right on Main Street.
john
That’s pretty good.
jesse
Somewhere for the witches!
jacinda
[Laughing.] Exactly! He was only allowed 30 minutes a week of an educational show.
louis
There’s a deep history there, when I was [inaudible].
john
What did you—uh, yeah!
crosstalk
Jacinda: So, I feel like— Louis: Reading Rainbow. John: I would think—since you were only allowed 30—what did you watch, in your 30 minutes of education? Louis: Probably Reading Rainbow. John: Reading—sure, why not? That’s the greatest. Yeah. Louis: That’s a great show. Yeah. Jesse: With past Judge John Hodgman guest, LeVar Burton!
john
That’s right! [Scattered cheers.]
jesse
You ever watch The Voyage of the Mimi with child Ben Affleck? [Louis confirms.] That show’s dope, right?
louis
Rarely do people remember that movie.
jesse
They got the water by making a tent out of a tarpaulin and collecting the condensation, John! [The audience laughs.] That’s how I get my water, to this day!
john
[Shrieking.] Gelfliiiiing! [Jacinda laughs.] [John mimics the thoughtful “hm?” noise of Skeksis from The Dark Crystal.] That’s the Chamberlain. Who can name all the Skeksis? Don’t. Don’t do it. So, I would think that someone who had been forced to limit your television watching to 30 minutes per day, now in this era of overabundance of programming, you’d wanna be mainlining as much as possible! Like, you’re—
jesse
[Shouting.] John! This is the first of three cases in ten minutes!
john
[Sheepishly.] Is this the first one?
jesse
[Desperately.] Yeah!
john
Oh, okay, never mind. [The audience laughs.] Uuuuuh… if you fall asleep, it’s over. You go to bed. That’s ruling one. Ruling two is, uh, if you can’t watch a movie in one sitting, you don’t deserve to watch movies. Alright? [The audience cheers.] Number three is, you’re welcome to watch whatever show each other claims, but if you claim the show, you watch it at your own pace and the other person just has to deal with it. This is the sound of a gavel. [Five small clacking noises.]
jesse
Jacinda and Louis! Please welcome, Lórien and Steve!
music
The Night & Day trio play a jazzy walk-on as the audience applauds.
john
Lórien. [Lórien affirms.] And Steve. Lórien, you have, like, a Middle Earth-y sounding name.
lórien
It is! It’s from Lord of the Rings. [Cheers from the audience.]
john
[Excited.] It is! Yeeeah! That’s awesome! Your parents gave you that name or did you choose it for yourself?
lórien
Uh, [chuckles] my dad said it was the only book he ever read. So. [Jesse cackles.] He wanted to choose a name from it. So, I’m just glad I’m not Galadriel.
john
Galadriel is pretty hot. There were some really—like, you could be Balrog. That would be no good. [Lórien chuckles.] Steve, what, uh, fantasy novel is your name from? [The audience laughs.]
steve
N-not sure.
john
Silver Hawk: The Trials of Steve, Book One. [Jesse cackles.] What the nature of your dispute and who seeks—
jesse
[Dramatically.] You have crossed me for the last time! Steeeve! [The audience laughs.]
john
Who comes to my court to seek justice?
lórien
Uh, I do.
john
And Lórien, what—what is the justice you seek?
lórien
Uh, so, we have one of those stand issue cars that most people in Maine have.
john
Sure. An L.L. Bean edition Subaru.
lórien
Close. [Chuckles.]
john
What kind of Subaru do you have?
lórien
Uh, a Forester.
john
Forester? [Cheers from the audience.] People are applauding. Is there a—is there, like, beef between Forester people and Outback people? [The audience laughs. Someone screams, “Yes!”] Really?
jesse
Someone was like, [furiously] “Yes!” [The audience laughs.]
john
Who here is team Outback? [Scattered cheers.] Who here is team Forester? [A louder smattering of cheers.] Yeeeah.
jesse
Anybody out there still rockin’ a Legacy? [A single cheer and scattered laughter. The crowd buzzes with chatter.]
john
You know, I always wanted one of those Subaru BRATs.
jesse
[Delighted.] Oooh, I’d love a Subaru BRAT! That would be so cool! Those little tiny trucks!
john
Those little teeny tiny trucks!
jesse
Oooh.
john
Joel Mann, do you know—do you know what a Subaru BRAT is?
joel
[Sighs.] Yes.
john
Right. Thank you. [The audience laughs.] You ever have one?
joel
No.
john
Do you—do you drive a Subaru? What do you drive?
joel
Kia! [John laughs.]
jesse
Folks! We have a new ringtone!
john
Alright. Woah! You’re still here! Sorry! Lórien—so, Lórien, you have a Forester, which is obviously the best. [Someone in the crowd “woos”.]
lórien
Right. And, so, one of the features of our particular Forester is that it has heated seats. [John affirms.] Which, in Maine, of course is a useful tool. But we play—
john
Sure. If you—if you want—if you wanna feel like you pooped yourself. [Everyone laughs.]
lórien
[Chuckling.] So, we play a game—
john
I’m—I’m—I’m just concerned, ‘cause I’m driving and obviously conditions are bad. I wanna be able to concentrate, so I need to feel as though I’m driving around in a pool of my own poop. Let me turn on the seat warmer.
lórien
Well, it’s kind of part of the game is that we try to trick the other person and turn their seat warmer on when they’re not looking.
john
[Delighted.] Oh! Sneak heat! [Lórien agrees several times.] So, you try to get the other person’s seat warmer on without their looking. Right. That’s awesome! [Lórien thanks him.] My son used to do that to me all the time.
lórien
So, the dispute is over the rules of this—
john
I drive a Volkswagen. [The audience cheers.] Whatever. It’s fine. [Beat. Lórien tries to speak but John interrupts.] The rules are?
lórien
The—well, that’s what we need your help with, because my husband was driving the car, one time, without me in it and he knew I’d be the next one to drive it. And so, he left the seat warmer on when he left the car, knowing that when I got in and turned the car on, it would get me.
john
It would explode. No. Sorry.
lórien
Like, about ten minutes after driving it, it would—it would get me, right? [John agrees.] And so, I think that was cheating! Because part of the game is—
john
You said that’s a sneaky cheat?!
lórien
That—because he—I wasn’t in the car when he put it on!
john
So, what do you—Steve?
jesse
So, you think this whole game is, like, basically closeup magic based? [Lórien agrees.]
john
Right. It has to—you can’t—your point of view is the rules should be you can’t just leave it on. It’s gotta—you gotta sneak that heat while the other person is in the car.
lórien
That both players have to be in the car.
john
There’s gotta be—there’s a gotta be a measure of sleight of hand and, dare I say, distraction. This sounds safe. Sure. [The audience laughs.] What’s—Steve, what’s the best—aside from this disputed one, what’s the best sneaky gotcha you ever got? What’s your technique? Are you driving?
steve
Uh, yeah, like—uh, on the way down here, uh… it was, uh…
john
Yeah, this is a perfect night to be—to be playing distracting games in the car.
crosstalk
Steve: [Laughing.] So, I had like— John: It’s dark at three o’clock in the afternoon, freezing rain.
steve
I was changing the radio while driving and just moved over and slowly, like—
john
But how did you know that you—how did you pick that moment? Did you notice that Lórien was looking out the window at the utter darkness, or something? [Lórien giggles.]
steve
Uh, I just figured she wasn’t paying attention, so…
john
And did it work?
steve
Yeah, it did.
john
Yeah! That’s a good get. Who’s better at it?
lórien
I’d say we’re about equal. I don’t know.
crosstalk
Lórien: We’ve been playing it for years. John: Are you keeping—are you keeping score? Lórien: Uuuh, not really? John: Then what’s the point? Lórien: [Laughs.] For the moment! The gotcha moment. John: This is—are you married? Lórien and Steve: Yes. John: And you’re not keeping score? [They laugh.]
jesse
How will you know who’s winning the marriage?!
steve
She is. [Everyone laughs. The audience cheers.]
jesse
Steve, you’re cool.
john
So, basically you would like me to invalidate this… this, uh, absentee gotcha.
lórien
Yeah, and make it a rule for the game that both players have to be in the car.
john
Yeah. I think I’m going to rule that, because—and here’s why. Because anyone can pull that kind of amateur [censored], Steve. [Lórien hums in delight. The audience laughs.] However, I will say—because it’s a cheap get, ‘cause anyone can do it at any time. And now, you know, she’s alerted. It will never work again. You’re gonna check it every time you go into the—you know, you get into the car. That is now no longer a good get. But I’m gonna allow you one point for it, ‘cause you did it first. [Steve agrees.] You changed the game. But now you can’t, and you can—and you’re—and you’re entitled to one reprisal, if you can try it that way.
lórien
[Sighing.] His car doesn’t have heated seats. [Someone in the audience boos.]
john
Well—but I mean, you could—what?!
jesse
Show some creativity! [John agrees and Steve chuckles.]
lórien
He’s a bike commuter. So, I’d have to put, like, a hot water bottle on his seat or something. [Chuckles.]
john
No, but the whole point is you’re driving together, right? So, you’re—you’re the driver, right? [Lórien agrees.] In your Subaru Forester. So, you—you know—next time you park the car, bump up his seat and then, when you get in the car together—but now I just had to spoil it for you. [Everyone laughs.] I mean, maybe you don’t deserve to play this anymore!
jesse
Yeah, you’re not exactly playing three-dimensional chess, here.
john
What I’m saying is, it’s a good get for Steve. You get one get like that. If you can get it! But that stands for one point and from now on? You keep score! [The audience laughs.] And you keep us posted as to who’s winning, every month, throughout the winter. [The audience cheers. The sound of three small gavel bangs.]
jesse
Lórien and Steve! Please welcome Alysha and Mike! [The audience cheers.]
music
Night & Day plays a short walk-on.
john
Alright. Alexa and Meek, which one of you— [The audience and Alysha laugh.] I’m sorry.
mike
Good enough for me. [Alysha laughs.]
john
Which of you seeks justice in this court?
alysha
I do.
john
And—Alysha, I presume? [Alysha confirms.] And uh, what is the justice you seek?
alysha
So, we’ve had a longstanding dispute over—uh, it’s a sweet sugar pie with nuts in it. I pronounce it pecan (puh-cahn) pie? And Mike says pea-can.
mike
It’s a pea-can pie.
john
I can feel the mob getting restless. [Alysha agrees. The crowd laughs.]
alysha
And I’m originally from Kansas, and so it’s, like, puh-cahn. Like, it’s just puh-cahn.
john
In Kansas everyone says [plosively] puh-caaahn. [Emphasizing the first syllable, almost like a chicken bock.] PUH-caaahn! [Alysha agrees.]
mike
I’m originally from central Mass., where we say pea-can.
john
Right. Where in—where in central Mass. are you from?
mike
Ware (where).
john
[Beat.] Th-that’s what I’m asking. Where in central Mass. are you from?
mike
Ware.
john
Thiiird base. [Everyone laughs.] [A long beat.] For those of you have never left the state of Maine, there is a town in Massachusetts called Ware. W-A-R—[chuckling] I should have—I should have done this. There’s a town in Massachusetts called Ware. It’s spelled W-O-R-C-E-S-T-E-R. [Everyone howls with laughter.] And you are not Mainers. You have driven here from Massachusetts to be here, right? [Alysha confirms.] Wow, thank you very much for taking your lives in your hands! [Jesse agrees.]
alysha
It was—it was a convenient part of our vacation. So.
john
And your vacation is to go north in the winter?
crosstalk
Alysha and Mike: Yes. John: And are you celebrating? Jesse: Seeking slush? [Alysha laughs and Mike agrees.]
john
And are you celebrating something?
alysha
Yeah, so we met on this day, in 2012. So. [Jesse “aww”s.]
john
Oh, wonderful! Is this—
alysha
Yeah! It’s our—our meet-a-versary.
john
[Delighted.] Your meet-a-versary! [Applause from the audience.] Where did you meet?
alysha
Well, on the internet, technically.
john
Oh.
mike
I usually like to tell people it was at Jurassic Park. [Alysha affirms.] But that’s not true. [Everyone laughs.]
alysha
It’s a more dramatic story.
jesse
Wait, when you tell people that you met at Jurassic Park—not at a screening of the film Jurassic Park, but at the tropical island full of dinosaurs known as Jurassic Park?!
mike
That we were on an amusement park ride and then all of the sudden it broke down and we were there next to each other, but then the fences went down and the—some of the animals started to get loose. [The audience laughs.] And—oh, wait, no—it was OkCupid. [Everyone laughs.]
john
That’s a good story, Mike.
mike
Thank you.
alysha
It’s why I married him.
john
I mean, you—you understand that I—you’re both adorable, I’d like to learn more about you, and I’m just, uh—I’m teasing it out a little bit longer, ‘cause this is a nothing-burger case that we’re gonna decide very quickly. [A ripple of chatter from the audience.]
alysha
Well, and I don’t want to change the way that Mike says pecan. I—he’s—it’s totally fine to keep calling, like, the nuts pea-can and pies, generally, pea-can pies. It’s just, specifically, when I make a puh-cahn pie, I would like it to be called a puh-cahn pie.
john
Oooh! So…
alysha
I know it’s nitpicky, but like—uh, there’s a certain, like, sweetness to puh-cahn versus pea-can. [John affirms.] And when I’m, like, sitting there gingerly flipping the pecans over, so it’s not the brain side, but like the pretty ridged side— [Someone in the audience cackles loudly.]
john
Not the brain side!
alysha
Like, I want it to be called—it’s a puh-cahn pie.
john
The pie that you make—
crosstalk
Alysha: Yeah. Just specifically mine. John: [Softly.] I understand.
john
So, just out of sense of regionalism and understanding—I mean, this is a true regionalism: whether you say puh-cahn or pea-can. [Alysha agrees.] And I—like, who here would say puh-cahn? [A rousing cheer from the audience.] And who here would say pea-can? [An even louder cheer from the audience.] Wow. So, Outback people say puh-cahn and Forester people say pea-can. Got it. [The audience laughs.] Maybe it’s not as regional as I thought! But in any case, you are—you are—you are a person of Kansas, and you say puh-cahn. [Alysha agrees.] And I have always said pea-can, because I am also from Massachusetts. But I think that the request is entirely appropriate. You can call any pea-can pie a pea-can pie, except for a puh-cahn pie made by your bride, Alysha. So, if she—it’s just like if the—if the—I don’t wanna talk about the president. [The audience laughs.] I was gonna say, if the president’s on an airplane, it automatically becomes Air Force One. We’re not gonna talk about that. If the pres—if the president is on a spaceship, it’s automatically Colonial One. So, it is that a pie made by Alysha, using the nonbrain-sided puh-cahns, it is always going to be referred to by you, Mike, and all: a puh-cahn pie. So say we all. [Three clicks of a small gavel.]
jesse
Alysha and Mike!
music
Night & Day play a closing tune.
sound effect
Three gavel bangs.
jesse
This week’s episode of the Judge John Hodgman podcast, recorded live onstage in Portland, Maine—at the State Theatre, with our musical guests, the Night & Day jazz trio. This week’s case was named by Jonathan Schlieman (shlie-men) or possibly Schlieman (shlee-man). Recorded by our friend, Jeff Bird. Produced by the wonderful Hannah Smith and edited by Jennifer Marmor. If we sound different, I am recording from home and we will be for the coming weeks. We’ll see for how long. Things might be a little different, but we’ve got a few episodes in the can. We’ve got some live shows still to come and we’ll record some docket shows from home, as well. That’s about all we need to say, right John?
john
[Beat.] Yeah, that’s all we have to say. Thanks for letting us keep your untouched faces and well-scrubbed hands company during this time. Be well out there, everybody.
jesse
Yeah, we’re thinking of everybody out there. It’s been tough for everybody and so we’re grateful you’re spending some time with us.
sound effect
Three gavel bangs.
speaker 2
Comedy and culture.
speaker 3
Artist owned—
speaker 4
—audience supported.
About the show
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