TRANSCRIPT Judge John Hodgman Ep. 446: Live in Durham at the Carolina Theatre 2019

This week’s episode was recorded LIVE in Durham, North Carolina at the Carolina Theatre in November of 2019. The first case is “Son of a Preacher Ban.” Then, the judge and bailiff rule on cases having to do with excessive planking routines, singing in goofy manners, and birthday cakes during Swift Justice.

Podcast: Judge John Hodgman

Episode number: 446

Transcript

sound effect

[Three gavel bangs.]

jesse thorn

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorn. This week's episode recorded live in Durham, North Carolina at the Carolina Theatre.

john hodgman

And this is your judge, John Hodgman. This is also our last episode of the year! We hope you have a very happy New Year. Thank you for listening. We'll be back in 2020 to bring you more justice.

jesse

Let's go to the stage at the Carolina Theatre.

sound effect

[Three gavel bangs.]

jesse

Durham, you've come to us desperate for justice! And we're here at the Carolina Theatre to deliver it! [Crowd cheers and applauds.] Friends, let's bring out our first set of litigants! Please welcome to the stage: Grant and Pastor Ervin! [More cheering and applause.] Tonight's case: "Son of a Preacher Ban." Grant files suit against his father, Pastor Ervin. Pastor Ervin regularly incorporates stories from his own life into his sermons, including stories about his children. [Light audience laughter.] Greg grew up hearing his father's Sunday sermons which oftentimes included stories about Greg. Greg would like for his father to stop talking about him in his sermons. [More laughter.] Paster Ervin feels he has the right to share stories about his family. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one can decide. Please rise—metaphorically—as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers an obscure cultural reference. [More cheering and applause.]

john

Podcasting... is awful. [Light audience laughter.] It's awful. It's painful. It's frightening. Makes you doubt yourself. Judge... yourself! Distance yourself from other people in your life. Makes you selfish. Makes you... creepy. [More laughter.] Makes you obsessed with your hair! Makes you cruel. Makes you say and do things you never thought you would do. It's all any of us want! Podcasting. And it's hell when we get there. So no wonder it's something we don't want to do on our own. I was told that if we were born with podcasting, then life is about choosing the right place to put it. People talk about that a lot. It feeling right. When it feels right, it's easy! But I'm not sure that's true. Takes strength to know what's right. And podcasting isn't something that weak people do. [More laughter.] Being a podcaster takes a hell of a lot of hope. I think that's what they mean when they say you find somebody that you podcast with... it feels like hope. [More laughter.] Bailiff Jesse Thorn, please swear them in.

jesse

Grant, Pastor Ervin, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth... [Anticipatory audience laughter.] ...and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever?

grant

I do.

pastor ervin

I do.

jesse

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, [stifling laughter] despite the fact that he consorts with members of the Church of Satan? [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.]

john

It's true. It's true.

jesse

[Stifling laughter] It's true.

crosstalk

John: It's true. Jesse: He's friends with them! They're nice!

john

It's true.

pastor ervin

Yes.

jesse

Inter-faith, it's called.

pastor ervin

Sure. [Audience laughter.]

john

Let the record show the pastor said "Sure." [Jesse and the audience laugh.]

jesse

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

john

[Laughs.] First of all, Grant and Pastor Ervin, you may be seated. [Audience laughter.] It's true that I thought for the cultural reference that I would read the blurb that my first book, The Areas of My Expertise, was given by Peter H. Gilmore, High Magus of the Church of Satan. Which was "Thank you for bringing more laughter into this world." [John and the audience laugh.] They're fun. Not actual devil-worshippers, Pastor Ervin, it's more of an art project. Don't worry. [More audience laughter.] But for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours' favors, can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered this courtroom? Grant, you're young.

jesse

You're cosplaying as Adam Scott on Parks and Rec. [John and the audience laugh.]

grant

I'll—I'll just say, uh... Reverend Jesse James autobiographyyy, maybe? Or...

john

Reverend... Jesse James. [Audience laughter.]

crosstalk

Jesse: Autobiography. John: Autobiography.

john

Those are words. Sure!

jesse

John— [Audience laughter.] So Jesse James is a famous outlaw.

john

Yeah. [More laughter.]

jesse

Um...

john

Who then became ordained in the Universal Church of Life when his friends asked him to marry them? [More laughter from audience and one of the litigants.] He's like, "Ugh, I gotta go to the Internet and do this thing!"

jesse

Can I tell you an honest fact?

john

Yeah!

jesse

My father and stepmother were married by a priest named Jesse James.

john

Really!

jesse

Yeah. That's a true story.

crosstalk

John: So that's who you were referencing, specifically, obviously, Grant. Grant: That's what I meant. Jesse: Yeah. Grant: Yeah. [Audience laughter.]

jesse

Kind of an inside baseball thing, but I like the guess.

john

That's a—that's right. Very good. Alright.

jesse

Good research.

john

Pastor Ervin, do you have a guess? As to what piece of culture I referenced as I entered the courtroom?

pastor ervin

It sounded like a little bit like Gandhi.

john

Gandhi... and Jesse James. [Audience laughter.] That's... truly is a flip of the coin.

jesse

I guess Montezuma!

john

All guesses are wrong! [Audience laughter.]

jesse

[Stifling laughter] Was it Teddy Roosevelt? I'm just naming figures from history.

john

No. [Someone laughs.]

jesse

That's what they did! [Someone laughs.]

john

Fictional character. Did anyone get it?

audience member

Fleabag!

john

Fleabag is correct! [Audience cheering.] It's the priest's homily at the wedding in the second season of Fleabag. Check it out.

jesse

Hot priest?

john

Hot priest.

jesse

Yeah.

john

That's right. Hot priest. Sorry, I was talking to them for a while. Let's talk to you. [Laughs.]

grant

I—I did mean Jesse Jackson. When I—just—

john

J—I—no, I understand. It's very—don't worry about it for a second.

grant

Okay. [Audience laughter.]

john

You have something in your hand. Is that evidence?

grant

Uh, no. But—it's just a gift.

john

Oh, really! [Interested shouts from the audience.]

grant

It's just some bribery.

john

A gift, you say! [Laughs.]

grant

Yeah. It's a—

john

Another gift! Maybe—

grant

It's a card game.

john

[Audibly disappointed/disgusted.] Oh. [Audience and Grant laugh.]

jesse

Classic!

john

[Sternly] We'll buzz-market your card game near the end!

grant

Alright. Thank you.

john

Ugh. [Laughter dies down.] So, alright. You bring this case, do you not, Grant?

grant

Yes.

john

And tell me what the—what is the—

jesse

Hold on. Grant, why don't you just bring an asthma inhaler?! [Scattered audience laughter.]

john

Actually, I could use one right about now. [Jesse and some audience members laugh.]

grant

Uh, I don't have a prescription for that, so I just couldn't really get ahold of it. But, uh—

john

I understand.

grant

You know, growing up, my dad would be at the pulpit from time to time.

john

Sure.

grant

He actually spent about 20 years as a children's minister.

john

Mm-hm.

grant

So he was my direct Sunday instructor for quite a while.

john

Sure.

grant

You know, he would bring up these stories... about my childhood, about my sisters' childhood, that were a little embarrassing. He's pretty good at what he does, so we would be at pretty big churches. And on Sunday morning if he would tell a fairly embarrassing story, there would be... maybe half as many people as there are in this room right now, like, hundreds of people.

john

Yeah.

grant

Listening about what I did when I was four years old, three years old.

john

Right. And that—and what sort of things would he tell that were so embarrassing? [Audience laughs.]

crosstalk

Grant: You know, I was a hand— Jesse: [Stifling laughter] We want as many examples as you can remember. [Audience and Grant or Paster Ervin laugh.]

grant

I was a handful as a kid, but he specifically told a story about me wanting some attention while he was on the phone. And I cut the phone line. Uh... [Audience laughter.]

john

And I presume he was on the phone... with God? [More laughter.]

pastor ervin

Yeah.

grant

Yes.

john

That was—[laughing] okay. [More laughter.] Pastor Ervin... what denomination are you a pastor in?

pastor ervin

United Methodist Church. [A few scattered cheers.]

john

Fantastic. How do you defend yourself against your son's accusations that you have been misusing his life in the sermons?

pastor ervin

I guess I usually just respond with, you know, "I'll give you five bucks, you know, for royalties." [John and some of the audience laugh.] Uh—[laughing] yeah. Just—

john

Have you ever—have you ever made good on that offer, sir?

pastor ervin

Probably not.

john

Ah, I see! Well.

pastor ervin

Yeah... Probably not.

john

Then there may be some damages to be awarded. [Some more audience laughter.]

pastor ervin

But you know, it's like these stories that I tell, though, they're stories that involve—you know, both of us.

john

Sure.

pastor ervin

You know, it's our father-son relationship, you know?

john

Yeah.

pastor ervin

I was on the phone with somebody and he wanted to talk to me, and I walked right by him coming home from—that's back when I was teaching school.

john

Right.

pastor ervin

And I kinda—just kinda switched hats, switched gears, and kinda ignored him.

john

Mm-hm.

pastor ervin

And so he reached his hand into one of those, uh, childproof locked drawers, pulled out a pair of scissors—

john

Yeah.

pastor ervin

—and cut the cord, and of course I did what—you know, we all did back then. You know, "Hello? Hello?"

john

[Laughing] Right. [Some audience laughter.]

pastor ervin

You know. And there's nobody there. So—and then I looked down, and he looks at me. He's about three years old at that point.

john

Right.

pastor ervin

And he goes "Are you gonna listen to me now?"

john

Ohhh. [Audience laughs.]

jesse

Whoa!

pastor ervin

And then I—I think I start to change some colors, you know, kinda like—you know, white to dark red. And then he takes off and goes run—uh, run down—he runs down the hall and he gets under his Barney bed.

john

Right.

pastor ervin

'Cause he's scared.

grant

So I was like, you know, 12, 15, 16, 17, and these stories were coming up.

jesse

Yeah.

john

Yeah, but this is—!

jesse

To clarify, John—'cause there are some kids here—later on, if you're interested romantically in another kid, uh, the best thing to do—this'll happen when you're 12, 15, 16—is just have your dad bring up your Barney bed. [John and the audience laugh.]

john

Or even—

grant

It's great, isn't it?

john

Even now, how old are you now?

grant

I'm 27.

john

You still have that Barney bed, Grant? [Pastor Ervin and some of the audience laugh.]

grant

No.

jesse

You still B-bedding it, baby? [He and Grant laugh.] He's like, "No, I got a race car now, man!" [Audience laughter.]

grant

Yeah.

john

In your father's defense, that's a pretty badass story. [Some audience laughter.] That's—I mean—you know, first of all, that took some skill to get into that childproof drawer.

grant

Mm-hm.

john

Get those scissors.

grant

Right.

john

That was a big move to cut the cord. I presume that when you're under your Barney bed, the demon speaks to you and tells you what to do? [Audience and some on-stage laughter.] In order to—and—and so—I mean, I think that's an incredible story. What was the context of the story in your sermon?

pastor ervin

Well, the context was I was drawing an analogy to how sometimes we don't wanna listen to God.

john

Right.

pastor ervin

How that we get so busy that we don't really wanna tune in and hear what he has to say. And so sometimes—

john

So you're saying your son is God.

pastor ervin

Nnno. [Audience laughter.] No, it was an analogy.

crosstalk

John: [Laughs.] Oh—oh, sorry. Pastor Ervin: Yeah. Right. You know. Yeah, actua—yeah. It—it was an analogy. Yeah! John: No, but you're—but yes! No, I think that that's right!

pastor ervin

You know, kinda part of the things that we've done and all the experiences that we've had, and so, you know, a good storyteller tries to draw on, you know, those personal things.

john

But—yeah, I mean, I think that that's—it's not merely just a heartwarming story, but it's a fairly arresting story about being mindful in life.

pastor ervin

Right.

john

To the things that are meaningful to you. Correct?

pastor ervin

Right! Right.

john

I thought that was—

pastor ervin

Yeah!

john

I think that's fair use. I don't think you owe him five bucks for that one. [Some audience laughter.]

pastor ervin

Well...

john

Grant, you have another complaint?

grant

Yeah.

john

What's another one that you felt bad about? [Some audience laughter.]

grant

Uh—well. [Someone laughs.] Yeah, so, that's one example, but he also a mentioned a story about—you know, when I needed to get a booster shot, and I got put into one of those harnesses. [Some audience laughter.] And he tried to kind of soothe me and say, uh, you know, "You're like a caterpillar. You'll be a butterfly." And then I shrieked "I don't want to be a butterfly." [More laughter.] That's in line with the material—

pastor ervin

Well, I was trying to get his mind off the blood getting drawn and—

john

Yeah, no, that's—!

grant

Right.

crosstalk

John: That's extremely touching! [Inaudible.] [Audience laughter.] Pastor Ervin: Right, I mean, he was three years old, and he had never had that kinda high fever thing, and—

john

Right.

pastor ervin

He's, you know, there, and they're putting this Velcro papoose thing all around him to hold him still.

john

Yeah.

pastor ervin

So they can draw the blood, and I thought, "Well, that'd be a great idea." You know, take his mind off it and—you know, "You're gonna be a butterfly!" and then he said, with just crocodile ears coming down his cheeks, "Daddy, I don't wanna be a butterfly!"

john

I don't—crocodile tears suggests insincerity. Do you think he was faking it?

pastor ervin

Oh, no.

john

Okay. Gotcha.

pastor ervin

No. No.

john

Why didn't you wanna be a butterfly, Grant? [Audience laughter.]

grant

I just wasn't ready yet.

john

Are you there now? Are you close? Are you there?

grant

Almost.

john

Almost there? Almost.

grant

When I turn 30, I think I'll—I'll be there.

john

Yeah.

jesse

Grant, you know what story my Aunt Gail likes to tell about me?

grant

What's that?

jesse

It's the time I went to her company picnic, and I disappeared for a little while. It was on an island near San Francisco called Angel Island. I disappeared for a little while, and I came back while everyone was getting their food.

grant

Hm.

jesse

And I looked up at her and I said at the top of my voice, "Aunt Gail! I pooped on the beach like a dog!" [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.] The moral of the story is you can win these negotiations! [Laughs.]

john

So in the context, Pastor Ervin, of the sermon...

pastor ervin

Right.

john

This story symbolizes what? What were you illustrating in the story of—or were you just sort of bragging about what a great dad you are? [Grant laughs.]

pastor ervin

No, no, no, no, no! I—

john

'Cause I thought—

pastor ervin

No.

john

By the way, that's a very touching story.

pastor ervin

Well, thank you.

john

And when Grant tells it I'm like, "This dad's terrific!"

pastor ervin

Right.

john

And then thinking of you telling it at church, I'm like "This dad likes talking about what a good dad he is." [John and the audience laugh.] But I don't think it was about that.

pastor ervin

No.

john

What was the context?

pastor ervin

No. It's about, you know, the idea of new life. You know, that God loves us and God wants to bring us new life and give us an opportunity to... to be everything that he's created us to be! So that's kinda where the story fits. Kinda new creation.

john

I'm gonna give that one a B-plus.

pastor ervin

Okay. [Audience laughter.]

jesse

That's generous. God wants us to turn into butterflies by getting our blood drawn? Is that the message here? [Audience laughter.]

john

This is not a comment on your expression of faith.

pastor ervin

Right.

john

Which is A-plus.

pastor ervin

Right.

john

I am a purely agnostic non-religious person, but A-plus for expression of faith. Very touching. And then also I would say solid A for a fun story about your kid.

pastor ervin

Right.

john

But it feels a little—they feel shoehorned together.

pastor ervin

Yeah. [Audience laughter.]

john

Whereas cutting the telephone cord—"Are you listening to me now?" is like "Bwoah!" [Audience laughter.]

pastor ervin

Yeah.

john

You know what I mean? Like, I—

pastor ervin

Yeah.

john

I feel healed by that. [Pastor Ervin laughs.] Do you know, like—that makes me wanna walk again. [Pastor Ervin laughs harder, audience also laughs.]

jesse

I don't think that's what the Methodists are up to, but... [Audience and Pastor Ervin laugh.]

john

Yeah. I—I apologize for... every joke that I make. [Some more audience laughter.] When did you start telling these stories? How old was Grant initially?

pastor ervin

Grant was probably about, you know, eight or nine.

john

Eight or nine.

pastor ervin

Yeah.

john

Was he in the congregation?

crosstalk

Pastor Ervin: Uh, sometimes. John: Mm-hm. Pastor Ervin: Yeah, sometimes it was a— Grant: Every time, yeah. I mean— [Audience laughter.] Pastor Ervin: Well—[laughs].

grant

Between the ages of like, one and eighteen, I was in church.

john

Right.

grant

Like, every—every week.

john

Right.

grant

Yeah.

john

So, okay. [Stifling laughter] Were you not aware that he was there every week? [Audience and litigant laughter.]

pastor ervin

There were just different venues.

john

Yeah.

pastor ervin

You know, that we—we shared them, sometimes at camp. You know, great camp stories, and... I just found that, you know, kids really appreciated hearing about stories that they could relate to.

john

Sure.

pastor ervin

You know, times in their lives where things didn't work out good or they got in trouble, or stuff like that. And you know, Grant... Grant got in trouble a lot.

john

What—tell me more! [Audience laughter.] Tell me another story. This one doesn't have to be a metaphor for anything. [More audience laughter.]

pastor ervin

Okay. We had just moved to a church in Orlando, and we'd just been there a few months, and sometimes in between services I wouldn't have a total track of where my kids were. So I tried to keep an eye on 'em as much as I could, but I was talking to people, doing my pastor thing, and so he actually came up to my boss, the senior pastor, and actually kinda hit him in the family jewels. [Some light audience shock/laughter.] So...

jesse

Yeah...

pastor ervin

Yeah.

jesse

Cool.

pastor ervin

I think that's a kid-friendly term. So like I said, he just really gave us great material! You know? [Some audience laughter.]

john

Yeah. Is he an okay kid now, or is—do I have to watch myself?

pastor ervin

Oh, he's a great kid now.

john

Okay, yeah.

pastor ervin

Yeah.

grant

I'm employed. So that's good.

pastor ervin

Yes. [Audience laughter.]

john

You're making—tell us about your card game.

grant

Uh, that's something I do in my spare time.

john

Okay.

grant

I have a studio called Honeycomb Interactive.

john

Okay.

grant

But I also work full-time at a major video game company in the area.

john

You never yourself felt the call to service as your dad did.

grant

No.

john

No. When did you decide to become a pastor, if I may ask?

pastor ervin

When I was 12.

john

When you were 12 years old!

pastor ervin

Mm-hm! Yeah! Actually, my mom was a teacher.

john

Mm-hm.

pastor ervin

And I was, you know, for a while. And my dad was a fire chief.

john

Mm-hm.

pastor ervin

And so no, I—I have an uncle who's a pastor.

john

Alright.

pastor ervin

But I was really the first pastor, clergy in my immediate family. But when I started out in ministry, I—like Grant was saying, for the first 20 years I was involved in children's ministry. I was a children's pastor, so I would use lots of different object lessons and puppetry and different things like that, and that's kinda where Grant and I kinda first shared, you know, those hobbies—that were first hobbies.

john

Right.

pastor ervin

Before I went into the ministry full-time. And one of them was puppetry, and he was doing puppet characters like at the age of three!

john

Right.

pastor ervin

And he was memorizing scripts, and—and so storytelling was always kind of a part of our relationship, you know?

john

Mm-hm.

pastor ervin

We just love stories.

john

Right. And then you just started taking his stories and using them... [Audience laughter.]

crosstalk

Pastor Ervin: Uhhh, yeah! John: To spread the word.

pastor ervin

I—I guess! Yeah.

jesse

For your ooown spiritual gain. [Audience and on-stage laughter.]

john

Grant, did you ever express your displeasure with your father?

grant

Not before my mother did.

john

Oh, okay! What was her complaint?

grant

She said "Andy, it's embarrassing the children. [Laughing] Don't do it." [Audience laughter.]

john

That would be you, Pastor Ervin?

pastor ervin

Right.

grant

Yeah.

pastor ervin

She tried to advocate—

john

She's allowed to call you something other than Pastor—

pastor ervin

Right.

john

—unlike me. Right, I got it.

pastor ervin

Right. [Audience laughter.]

john

We're not—okay, I got it. We're not on that level. I got it.

pastor ervin

Right.

john

We'll get there.

pastor ervin

Right.

john

Okay! [Audience laughter.] Were you embarrassed? Did you say something to your mom?

grant

Uh, yeah. I think we eventually—me and my sisters—'cause we're all kinda three years apart.

john

Okay.

grant

So we all kind of grew up with this experience.

john

And your sisters are also grist for the story mill?

grant

Not as much as me.

john

And you sent in some evidence, right? Some photos of the family?

grant

Some photos, yeah.

john

Mm-hm. Who sent it in? Was it—would it be you, Grant?

grant

My mother picked them out.

john

Okay.

grant

And I kinda sent them in.

john

Let's have a look at these photos. They'll all be available on the Judge John Hodgman page at MaximumFun.org and our— [Positive crowd noises.] Wow! This is adorable. Also on Instagram at @judgejohnhodgman. [Audience and Grant laugh.]

pastor ervin

Yeah.

john

So here's Pastor Ervin and Grant, young Grant, sporting not one but two gold medallions; thank you for being gold. [Audience laughter.]

grant

Yes.

john

What'd you get those awards in?

grant

Probably Bible quizzing. [Someone snorts.] I would—[laughing] I'd guess. [Audience laughter.]

pastor ervin

And some puppetry!

grant

And—[laughing] yeah.

john

Double gold. One gold in Bible quizzing, one gold in puppetry. [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.] Grant, what is this evidence you sent in to represent?

grant

Proof that I was a child, and that he was a dad. Or is a dad.

john

Yeah. [Pastor Ervin and audience laugh.]

grant

You know.

pastor ervin

The stories are true. [Litigants and audience laugh.]

john

Yes, I recognize you as those people at an—at a—earlier time.

pastor ervin

Yeah.

john

Next piece of evidence, please? Here is a family portrait. These—

pastor ervin

Right.

grant

Yeah.

john

These are the whole family, including—

pastor ervin

Right. The Ervin Five.

john

—your wife/Grant's mom, plus the two sisters, right?

pastor ervin

Yep.

john

And do the sisters ever figure into the sermons, or did Grant get special treatment?

pastor ervin

Sometimes. Yeah.

john

But less often? Grant was the—

pastor ervin

Probably Grant.

john

Right, 'cause he was—

pastor ervin

Yeah.

john

—a terror. [Litigants and audience laugh.]

jesse

Is this a picture of the five of you on your way to audition for a local production of Fosse? [Audience laughs.]

pastor ervin

Yeah. No, it was a—

grant

We were—

pastor ervin

[Stifling laughter] It was a church directory photo, actually.

john

Right.

grant

We're dressed as beatniks. [Jesse laughs.]

pastor ervin

My wife said we're all wearing one color.

john

I hate to say this, 'cause it already made everyone uncomfortable, but there's a real Church of Satan vibe in this. [Audience, Jesse, and one or both litigants laugh.]

pastor ervin

[Bemused] Okay...

john

Just—it's a striking look.

pastor ervin

Alright...

john

It's just—it's just with the all black... Yeah. [More audience laughter.] Next slide, please. Yeah, this is—this is what I'm talking about! Loving family.

pastor ervin

Yeah.

john

Next to some—a body of water. And this is a vacation?

grant

Yeah. We're all happy here, uh, 'cause someone's missing in the, uh—

john

Ohhh!

grant

—-[laughing] picture. [Mixed laughter and shock from the audience.]

crosstalk

John: Right in the—right in the metaphorical family jewels! [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.] Pastor Ervin: I was taking the picture!

grant

That's true.

john

He was taking the picture.

grant

He was there.

john

[Laughs.] "When I was not there, I was the one taking the picture." Right? That— [John, the audience, Jesse, and one or both litigants laugh.] And this is to represent...? This is meant to—?

grant

Proof of family.

john

Yeah, this is—[stifling laughter] proof of fam—proof of fam— [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.] —proof of family life. Well, they're adorable photos.

grant

Thank you.

john

Did you ever think to—at a certain point—to ask Grant's permission to continue to use these stories? [Pause.] [Someone in the audience laughs.]

pastor ervin

[Nonchalantly] No. [Audience laughs.]

john

Do you use them to this day?

pastor ervin

Yeah. [Audience and someone on stage laughs. Some of the audience switches gears to "ohhh" at something, and then the audience laughs again.] Well, you know, again, they're stories that kinda describe our relationship! I mean, we're both in the stories.

john

Sure!

pastor ervin

We both, you know, are involved. And—and—

crosstalk

John: No—no, I understand, but—but— Pastor Ervin: It kinda supports that—you know, kinda his origins and where he started from and like, all these things that kinda became part of his identity.

john

I understand, and I could definitely see—as a father myself—I could definitely see an argument that my children's lives and life stories... belong to me. They're my intellectual property. [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.] And I—and I've—[laughs].

pastor ervin

Right.

john

I've certainly made a bundle off them in my books. [Pastor Ervin laughs.] But I ask this—Grant has now expressed, first via his mother, now in person, in an open forum...

pastor ervin

Right.

john

...that this makes him uncomfortable! I mean Grant, are you asking me to rule that your father not tell these stories again?

grant

There's another wrinkle. Uh, because he is a published author. So it's—it covers vocal stories, but then also written word. I just want a full coverage... [Audience laughter.] Full protection.

john

Oh, I thought you were asking for a portion of his earnings.

grant

[Laughing] No, no! [Audience and Pastor Ervin laugh.] I—I understand raising a child is expensive, so I'm not looking for damages. [Scattered audience laughter.]

jesse

Grant, if you decide to seek damages... [One of the litigants laughs.] ...I got a few good negotiating techniques you might try. [Laughs.]

grant

Okay. [Grant and the audience laugh.]

john

The family jewels? [John, Jesse, and others laugh.]

jesse

Pooping on the beach like a dog!

john

[Laughing] Oh, right!

grant

Oh! [Audience and on-stage laughter.]

john

So you would like me to order your father to excise... [Someone stifles laughter.] ...all of the stories, all the Grant stories, in his sermon repertoire. And no longer write them down, either.

grant

Correct.

john

And I presume destroy all copies of his books to date? [Some audience laughter.]

jesse

How does he even work these childhood stories into his spy thrillers? [John, one of the litigants, and some of the audience laugh.]

pastor ervin

It's a secret. If I told you, I'd have to kill you.

john

Oh! [Some more audience laughter.] What—what kind of books are you writing?

pastor ervin

They're really books about, uh, working with kids.

john

Yeah.

pastor ervin

You know, in the church, and—

john

Yeah. Mm-hm.

pastor ervin

Cool stuff.

john

Now—now—those are strong demands. So I presume that they are underscored by strong and sincere feelings of discomfort with these stories being told. Now that Grant has expressed that, does that make you feel differently about telling the stories?

pastor ervin

I think they've—make me feel... more sensitive to... using stories that are gonna still put him in a very positive light.

john

Mm-hm.

pastor ervin

You know, I don't ever wanna say anything or do anything that would intentionally embarrass him or upset him, but I—it definitely makes me think more about, you know, being sensitive to... [Someone in the audience laughs.] ...to that.

john

Yeah.

pastor ervin

So...

john

Alright. I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

pastor ervin

Okay.

john

I'm going to go into my, uh, private Church of Satan chapel. [Some of the audience and one or both litigants laugh.] And I'll be back in a moment with my verdict.

jesse

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. [Cheering and applause.] Grant, how are you feeling about your chances in the case right now?

grant

You know, fantastic. Pretty much. [Some audience laughter.] It was a little—you know, I had to lose a little. 'Cause those stories did come out in the open air in front of... a lot of people. [A little more laughter.] Uh, but—

pastor ervin

Yeah, I was surprised you told the first one!

grant

Well, yeah, so it's—I think it was worth it. Overall.

jesse

...We're also gonna podcast this; did you know that? [Jesse, one or both litigants, and the audience laugh.]

grant

I did, yeah.

jesse

[Stifling laughter] I'm just saying don't run for Congress or whatever. [Audience and one of the litigants laugh.] Pastor Ervin...

pastor ervin

Yes.

jesse

How are you feeling about your chances?

pastor ervin

You know, I have... no really worries about it, you know? I think that John and I are both dads... you know, we both— [Light, scattered audience laughter.] —have been on some—both some interesting journeys, and I think he appreciates my son's creativity as much as I do.

jesse

Take a look at your son right now. [Light audience laughter.] I don't know if he has children. But he's already a dad. [Jesse, audience, and both litigants laugh.] The two of you are on even footing! [Pastor Ervin laughs.] Pastor Ervin... I don't know how Methodists feel about throwing Hail Mary passes. [Audience and Pastor Ervin laugh.] You might be in trouble here. [Some more audience laughter.]

pastor ervin

Hmm.

jesse

[Stifling laughter] And I think I've got a negotiating technique for ya. [Audience laughs.]

pastor ervin

[Laughing] Okay.

jesse

No, no, no, no, no, no, no! [Pastor Ervin laughs.] We'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all of this. [Audience cheers and applauds.]

sound effect

[Three gavel bangs.]

jesse

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is of course supported every week by all of the members of Maximum Fun. We are also supported this week by the kind folks at Mozilla.

john

You can't see them... but they can see you! They know your age, your relationship status, your musical tastes, your political opinions! What am I talking about, Jesse? Spies?!

jesse

Online trackers! Online trackers know a ton about you, because they are everywhere online! Collecting your personal information and selling it for a profit without your consent! That is why Firefox blocks ten billion trackers for users every day, all the time, all over the web.

john

Automatically!

jesse

Get Firefox. Get your privacy back. Learn more at Firefox.com/privacy.

john

Firefox fights for you.

jesse

For you! [Mimicking an echo] For you, for you, for you...

sound effect

[Three gavel bangs.]

jesse

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict. [Audience cheers and applauds.]

john

You both seemed very confident, as I listened in to your... [Audience and John laugh.] ...assessment of your chances in the case. There is a little saying that we have... in the Church of Satan. [Audience and one of the litigants laugh.] "Pride goeth before the fall." [More audience laughter.] No, no, no, the Church of Satan doesn't say that! They say "Do whatever you want." [Laughs.] [Audience and onstage laughter. Some audience members cheer.] "Let God sort it out." [Laughs.] [More laughter from audience and one or both litigants.] I guess. I don't know. [Laughs.] I'm not a member of the Church of Satan. I just—that's— [More audience laughter.] Neither are any of the members of this family. I alluded to the fact that I am also a storyteller. Just for money. [More audience laughter. John also laughs.] No larger purpose.

jesse

[Chiding] John!

john

Whatsoever. [Laughs.]

jesse

John... money and vanity.

john

That's right! [John, audience, and one or both litigants laugh.] Money, vanity, pride, envy, sloth. [Stifles laughter.] All those things. [More audience laughter.]

pastor ervin

Yeah.

john

That's why I'm out here slinging the stories. [Some of the audience and one or both litigants laugh.] And for a long time, I chose not to tell stories about my children. Either directly or in indirect, fictional ways. And I refused to even name them in my early written work. In part because I respected their privacy. In part because telling stories about children, especially when they are young—and especially, I would say, in comedy—can verge on hackiness very quickly.

pastor ervin

Mm.

john

'Cause kids are kind of dumb, and they say hilarious things. [John and the audience laugh.] They are basically material generators. Do you know what I mean? [More audience laughter.]

pastor ervin

Mm-hm.

john

"My kid's brain hasn't grown to full adulthood yet, and so they said a dumb thing, ha-ha-ha." [Some more laughter.] But in a very real way because I did not want to use them for material. And then I moved into a different phase of my storytelling, when instead of telling very arch, absurdist, humorous... "ha-ha jokes," I started telling true stories from my life, as you tell true stories from yours. And the time came, both I felt to be open about my journey through fatherhood and that that might be helpful to other people, and so I would talk about my children and tell stories about things that we experienced together, without naming them, but—you know, they don't need me to get famous. Or they shouldn't. [Laughs.] [Audience laughter.] The point is I'm the famous one, not them. [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.] I'm not here to make them famous. [Laughs.] [Some more audience and on-stage laughter.] And I also started telling stories about their lives... 'cause I was out of material, and I had to. [More audience laughter.] All—[laughs] all of my concerns about hackiness went into the garbage, 'cause like, I gotta fill up time. [Some more laughter.] One question I didn't ask, and should have—honest answer—

pastor ervin

Mm.

john

How big a part of your "act"—in comedy terms—is Grant a part of? Settle on a percentage individually. Like... 50% of your sermons have a Grant story in them? 25%? 5%? 90%? Settle on something in your mind.

pastor ervin

Okay.

john

You settle on something in your mind.

pastor ervin

Okay.

john

And after I say "three," you both say what you came up with. One, two, three.

pastor ervin

15%.

grant

I would land on 15 as well. Yeah.

john

You just waited until your daddy talked first! [Audience and Paster Ervin laugh.] You're supposed to be a rule-breaker! [More laughter.] So... it is a choice, every time. Especially as your children grow up, and they become whole human beings. Who have feelings, and reputations, of their own! Who are known in their community, and have a right to a measure of privacy. "Is this story worth it? Is this story going to communicate something to someone else and really help them, such that it is worth violating the privacy of my child without their permission? Or is it just... sorta funny?" [Pause.] One of them I gave a B-plus. Solid B, B-plus. In terms of its engagement with what you were trying to say to your congregation. The other one—cutting the phone cord? It was such a powerful illustration of what you were trying to talk about. You can tell that one for the rest of your life. [Audience, John, and one or both litigants laugh.] I mean, here's the thing. I think that you should take very seriously the fact that Grant is made uncomfortable. That he has asked you to stop. And if Grant had not goaded you into telling the story about him punching someone in the nuts... [Audience laughs, someone stifles laughter.] ...I might take him seriously! I might have ruled in his favor completely! [Audience laughs, John stifles laughter.] But clearly— [The litigants laugh.] —your lives and your stories are entwined! There are some stories that you wanna have out there! Such as you... hurting your dad's... pastor boss. [More audience and on-stage laughter.] Shall be enshrined forever in podcast history. [Some more audience laughter.]

john

Your lives are entwined. And... Grant, I—I can't in good conscience put a injunction on your dad's right to remember you as you were when you were younger... just cutting and punching and running and hiding— [Audience, litigants, and John laugh.] —and screaming and crying, and non-butterflying. [More laughter.] You know.

jesse

And wearing that one hat from that picture. [Laughs.]

john

Yeah. [One or both litigants and the audience laugh.]

grant

2009 was a heady time. It was—

john

I know. That's right. [Some more audience laughter. Someone claps.] These are stories that are not merely, uh, of service to his congregation, when used correctly. But also of service to him, I would think, to remember what it was like to be a parent of a younger child. 'Cause you are disappearing before his eyes. You have grown into a handsome... childless young dad. [John, audience, and someone else laughs.] Wearing a shawl collar sweater. [More audience laughter.] So I am not going to find in your favor, Grant. I am going to instead grant your dad, Pastor Ervin, the right to continue to tell these stories, on two conditions. One is: you need to think very carefully, now that your son is an adult and you know how he feels, whether it's worth it. There are times when parents say—[laughs] and parents have said to me, "I know it's wrong, but I'm doing it anyway." [John and the audience laugh.] If he does not actively grant your permission, and you use the story anyway, you need to be able to justify it in the power of the storytelling.

pastor ervin

Hm.

john

Such that you can turn to your son and say "I know it's wrong, but I'm doing it anyway." [Audience laughter.] And... that—I want you to think carefully before you use those stories.

pastor ervin

Mm.

john

And I don't think that butter—that butterfly story is a great dinner table story!

pastor ervin

Yeah.

john

When it is totally appropriate to embarrass your son. [Someone stifles laughter, audience laughs.]

pastor ervin

Right.

john

You know, then it's not embarrassing. It's just a story about what a great dad you are. You know? That "cutting the phone cord," boy oh boy... [One of the litigants and the audience laugh.] Phew. [Smooch.] Chef kiss. [Audience and one or more people on stage laugh.] The other caveat—[stifling laughter] or commandment, if I may.

pastor ervin

Hm. [Audience and multiple people on stage laugh.]

john

Is atonement! Pride goeth before the fall.

pastor ervin

Hm.

john

You sat up there, you're like, "I don't care what he thinks! I'm gonna keep telling these stories!" I would like you to turn to your son and say, in your own words, you care what he thinks and you're sorry that you hurt his feelings. [Beat.] But into the microphone. And it's really hard— [Audience and John laugh.]

pastor ervin

Grant, I really do care about you. And I'm sorry that I hurt your feelings. ["Awww"ing and applause from the audience.]

john

And now—now say "But I'm doing it anyway." [John, the audience, and one of the litigants laugh.]

pastor ervin

But I'm doing it anyway.

john

Alright. Very good! [Pastor Ervin and the audience laugh.] This is the sound of a gavel! [Five live gavel thuds. Audience is cheering and applauding.]

jesse

Grant and Pastor Ervin, thank you!

sound effect

[Three gavel bangs.]

jesse

Judge Hodgman, we're taking a quick break. Let's get into chambers, talk about what we've got upcoming.

john

Yeah, Jesse. While this is our last podcast episode of the year 2019, it's not necessarily your last chance to hear my voice before year's end. I mean, you might live with me! That might be—you might run into me on the street. Or... if you live in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, you might come see me and your old friend, summertime fun time guest Bailiff Monte Belmonte. We're putting on a holiday spectacle at the Shea Theatre in Turners Falls, Massachusetts, my old stomping grounds, with special musical guest Aaron McCune! Lots of comedy, storytelling, chats from us. I might take some Snap Justice questions from the audience. And Odyssey Books will be selling copies of Medallion Status there, which I can sign for you if you want. It's gonna be a good old fun time, with a singalong. Why don't you check it out if you don't mind? At Bit.ly/HODGMONTE. Capital H-O-D-G-M-O-N-T-E. That's all capital letters, all one word. And then I'll be taking a rest, and I hope you will be doing the same, as New Year's comes along and then goes away. And then, Jesse Thorn, you and I are hitting the road again!

jesse

Yeah! We're headed to Brooklyn, New York on January 13th at the Murmrr Theatre. Boston, Massachusetts at the Wilbur Theatre on January 14th. And then we are headed to the Castro Theatre in San Francisco for SF Sketchfest. Three big blowout shows! We're looking for you to come attend them, if you live in one of those places or regions. And we are looking for your cases! So be sure to submit them at MaximumFun.org/jjho and let us know that you live in one of those places, and be sure to grab some tickets! You can find more information at MaximumFun.org/events or JohnHodgman.com/tour.

john

You know, every time we go out on tour we have a great time, they're a ton of surprises, they're completely unpredictable. New cases at every show. These are three of our favorite places to play. And we'll have lots of fun merch that you can look at and maybe buy if you want. Lots of fun times to have, for sure. So again, please, JohnHodgman.com/tour or MaximumFun.org/events for tickets. And you know, we need your cases! So I'll just say it again: MaximumFun.org/jjho. Let us know if you're in town and we'll consider your case for litigation on stage! If we choose you to be litigated on stage, guess what? Your tickets are free, and I will say hello to you backstage.

sound effect

[Three gavel bangs.]

jesse

We have brought so far I think a modest amount of justice. I think that the Durham area, the research triangle, requires further justice. Do you think we could do it? I mean, we only got about 15 minutes to do this.

john

We have children in the audience, one of whom is desperately wanting to go to bed, I can see right now. [Some audience laughter.]

jesse

Do you think we can offer treble justice in 15 minutes?

john

Set a timer! And let's move to Swift Justice!

jesse

Okay! [Sound that might be gavel-thumping. Crowd cheers and applauds.] Please welcome our first case: Linda and Bridget.

john

Linda and Bridget... Which one is Linda, please?

linda

This is Linda.

john

Hi, Linda! How are you?

linda

Linda: I'm great. How are you? John: You can move that stool a little bit closer to the microphone if you'd like to be more comfortable that way.

john

And you must be Bridget?

bridget

Yeah.

john

And your relationship is...?

bridget

She's my mom.

john

Okay. And she's your daughter.

linda

She's my daughter, yes.

bridget

[Stifling laughter] Mm-hm.

john

I put that together very well. Perfect. [Litigants and audience laugh.] Who comes to this court seeking justice? Is it you, Bridget, or you, Linda?

bridget

I do. Yeah.

john

And Bridget, what is your complaint?

bridget

So my mom, uh, about a year ago started doing this thing where she planks every single day. Um... and she's been increasing it by ten seconds every day for the past year. [A few people cheer enthusiastically, there's some scattered applause.]

john

For the benefit—for the benefit of the sedentary in the audience, would you explain what planking is, Linda? [Some audience laughter.]

linda

Planking is—for me, the way I do it, I am in... not a prone position, but in a position where I'm up on my arms and my toes.

john

Ly—sort of—

linda

In a—

john

Plank—planking your body above the floor, holding yourself aloft on your arms.

linda

Exactly. Exactly.

john

And this is a—is this a Pilates move? [Linda laughs or sighs.] Or a—just a general sort of core strength training move?

linda

I think it's just a general fitness move, yeah.

john

Right. And how did this get started for you?

linda

So I was in a yoga class.

john

Yeah.

linda

And my instructor was—just one day mentioned "Oh, the world record for planking was set." And—

john

What was it?

linda

It was like ten hours—

john

Oh my— [Light audience laughter.]

linda

—ten minutes, and ten seconds. And then he stopped and took like a 30-minute break and then planked for another like, nine hours.

john

A-after he set the record?

linda

Yeah.

john

The world-record planker.

linda

Exactly.

john

And what's this person's name?

linda

George Hood.

john

Well, alright! I didn't think you were gonna remember. [Laughing] I was gonna— [Litigants and audience laugh.]

linda

[Laughing] I didn't either.

john

I was going to speak to the futility of planking in the history of the world, how no one's ever remembered for planking. [More laughter.]

linda

Only the weirdos.

john

Yeah, but—George Hood?

linda

George Hood.

john

George Hood. Well...

jesse

He's now internationally famous via our podcast.

crosstalk

Linda: I'm surprised. John: I should not have— Jesse: To literally dozens of people. John: Yeah. [Audience laughter.]

john

I should—I should not—I should not have thrown shade on a planker. And what's your goal with the planking? How much—how long can you do it, and what's your goal?

linda

So I'm up to an hour and 16 minutes and 50 seconds. [Audience cheers and applauds enthusiastically.] And I'd like to go to two hours.

crosstalk

Linda: I don't do it every day. John: Okay. That's what you— Linda: I've backed off a little bit. John: Right.

linda

I started, and when I got to about 40 minutes it was just too much, so—

john

Do you—what do you think about when you're doing this?

linda

I do different things. Like, I can read.

john

Oh, okay. [Some audience laughter.] It's not purely meditative.

linda

No.

john

It's just self-punishing.

linda

[Laughing] The—exactly. [Audience laughs.]

john

Right.

jesse

Why not—

linda

It's punitive, yeah.

john

Do you watch shows? Do you stream? Do you listen to podcasts, or—?

crosstalk

Linda: Listen to podcasts, read, yeah. John: Right. Right.

john

How do you turn the pages? [Beat. Scattered audience laughter.]

linda

I just take a—I don't do it on my elbows; I do arm planking. So I just do one-handed plank—

john

That doesn't ruin the plank?

linda

Nah.

john

Alright! Good! What are you reading? [Beat. Scattered audience laughter.]

linda

Lots of things!

john

Yeah, I know, it's the worst question in the world, I apologize. [The litigants and the audience laugh.] Your mom seems pretty awesome. Why do you—what are—what's your complaint? Do you live at home?

bridget

I—no.

john

Okay.

bridget

I live away from home.

john

Yeah.

bridget

My problem—

john

Are you a legal adult?

bridget

I'm—I'm 20. Yes. [Laughs.]

john

You're out in the world?

bridget

Yeah, I'm out in the world.

john

Right? It's not like you're at home, tripping over your mom— [Bridget and the audience laugh.] —getting a snack or whatever.

bridget

No! No, no. But I'll—

jesse

She's probably just like all the other... whatever comes after Millennials; she's just planking TikToks! [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.]

bridget

It's true. Or like, not even a TikTok. Not even a full TikTok.

john

No.

bridget

Like—[laughs].

john

But sincerely, why—why—why bring your case before this court?

bridget

She—it's not so much the planking, because I know that she loves it. [Laughs.] But it's the extremity of the planking. And I'll like call her, like, during the week. And I'll be like "Hey mom, what's up?" And she's like "Oh, I'm just planking." [Jesse, the litigants, and the audience laugh.] Or like, I'll go over there—I'll go over there to spend the night or something, over to her house, and she's like "Okay, I gotta do my plank now." And then I'll just be sitting on my phone while she's like, on the floor, planking. [More audience laughter. One or both litigants laugh quietly as John responds.]

john

Yeah, but she can read a book! She can have a conversation! I mean admittedly it's strange— [Bridget and the audience laugh.]

bridget

It is—that's the problem. And—

john

But it's not—she's not going into her—right? You're not going into your own world, right, Linda? You can still have a conversation with Bridget—

linda

Yeah!

john

—while planking, right?

bridget

Yeah! I like the distraction of a conversation while planking.

john

Oh, well you just—oh, so you're just using Bridget as a— [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.]

linda

[Laughing] Yeah.

john

As a plank distraction.

linda

"Hey Bridget, can you come over so I can plank and have a conversation?" [Litigants and some audience laugh.]

john

Yeah! What—why do you think Bridget is concerned about your planking? What do you—what do you interpret this as? 'Cause I don't get it.

linda

I interpret it as her just thinking that I'm going overboard and being a little over-the-top, maybe.

john

And you agree, Bridget?

bridget

Yeah, and like maybe like a—and healths concern? Like, what if—

john

There's a health concern?

bridget

It's—a little bit. [Laughs.]

john

Are you afraid she might break herself in half? [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.]

jesse

I'm just gonna cut to the chase here, John. Linda, are you just afraid to die? [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.]

bridget

[Laughing] Yes. [Audience laughs.]

jesse

Yes or no?!

linda

I welcome death. [Everyone laughs, including Linda. Someone claps.]

jesse

[Laughing] She said she welcomes death!

john

[Audience laughter swells again as John speaks, vocally straight-faced.] Does your mom's welcoming of death trouble you, Bridget?

bridget

[Laughs.] I don't—she's not, you know, like, buying me groceries anymore, [stifling laughter] so— [Audience and Linda laugh.]

john

Right.

bridget

[Stifling laughter] So less than—less than maybe like, six years ago. But like—[laughs]. [John and the audience laugh.]

john

Now that you can feed yourself, it's fine for her to die?! [Audience and Bridget laugh.]

bridget

I'm just kidding!

john

Sure! [Bridget laughs.] Okay!

jesse

John, that's called the circle of life! [More laughter from the audience and both litigants.]

john

Right. I think I'm—I think you're coming into focus for me now, Bridget. [John, the litigants, and the audience laugh.] There are two things that I think could be going on here, and let me know if either of them resonate with you. Does your mom have a history of going overboard with hobbies in the past?

bridget

Yeah, exercise hobbies.

john

Can you give me an example?

bridget

Well... [Sighs.] She's just like, this reverence, like—like a worship for like, the workout—her workout regime.

john

Yeah.

bridget

Like, she's like, "I'm—I'm empty without it." [Laughs.]

john

We want to be alive! We don't welcome death! I don't believe your body. [Laughter from the audience and the litigants.] The other thing that might be going on that it's sometimes hard for adult children to adjust to how their parents start getting weirder and weirder once they've left the house. [More laughter.] As we try to figure out what just happened for the past 18, 20 years of our lives. [More laughter.] Where—[laughs] when our entire lives were given over to this lovely parasite that we were raising. [More laughter.] And now all they wanna do is criticize us on stage. [More laughter. One of the litigants is cracking up. Some of the audience applauds and cheers.] Does your mom's weird hobby just freak you out a little bit?

bridget

Maybe partially that?

john

Yeah.

bridget

I think it's a very—like—I feel like it might be more productive to just like... go to a therapist or something. [Jesse bursts out laughing, the audience and the litigants also laugh.]

john

Wow.

bridget

[Laughing] Sorry, sorry, Mom!

linda

I do that! [Audience and both litigants laugh.]

john

Look. I appreciate that you can have open communication with each other. [More laughter.] I think there's only one way to resolve this dispute. And that is... trial by planking! [Audience cheers and applauds.] Linda... would you mind planking on stage? In this area? [Scattered laughter.]

linda

I do not mind.

john

I'm glad to hear that. [Linda laughs.] Because Linda, if you can plank... for the rest of this entire segment— [Audience laughs.] —then I shall rule in your favor. [Audience laughs again.] If you should falter... Bridget shall be the winner. [More laughter.]

crosstalk

Bridget: That's not fair! [Laughs.] John: I don't even know what it means except winning or losing. It's not fair?! [Audience and both litigants laugh.] Bridget: She can do it! [Laughs.] She can do it! John: Let me tell you something, young lady, life isn't fair! [More laughter.]

john

Mom, get planking!

jesse

The stakes are higher for your mother! [Audience starts cheering and applauding.] [Stifling laughter] If she loses, we murder her! [Audience and Bridget laugh.]

bridget

[Laughing] Okay! That's acceptable!

john

Could we—let's—let's get Linda into planking mode. [Someone shouts something inaudible.]

jesse

Linda's—

john

Oh, someone wants to plank with her! [Some laughter and cheers from the audience.] Are—there she goes. [Cheering and applause from the audience.] And now—

jesse

Linda's removed her sensible and attractive flats.

john

Someone start a timer. Someone—here, this person on the end, start a timer. We'll add ten seconds to whatever your result is. Bridget, if you would like to sit by your mom while she planks, or you may leave the stage. Which would you like? [Pause. Linda or an audience member shouts something, only "planking" can be made out. Bridget and the audience laugh.] I know this is very—

bridget

I'm gonna watch you from afar. [Laughs.]

john

Watch it—right, okay.

bridget

I love you, good luck. [Laughs.] [Jesse and the audience laugh.]

john

Bridget, we'll have you come out later when we figure out the result of this.

bridget

Okay!

john

But we're—let's move on to the next case.

jesse

Please welcome Megan and Laura! [Audience cheers and applauds.]

john

She can't even watch you, Linda. She can't even watch you. Megan and Laura... who brings this case before me?

megan

I do.

john

And what justice do you seek, and what's your name, also?

megan

I'm—I'm Megan.

john

Hi, Megan.

megan

Hi!

john

How are you? I'm John.

megan

[Laughing] Good, I guess.

jesse

I'm Jesse.

john

You can—you can call me Pastor John. [Megan, Jesse, and the audience laugh.]

megan

So I bring this case against my sister.

john

Yeah.

megan

I really like to sing.

john

Yeah!

megan

I often make up songs, and words to songs. I'm just singing along with songs in my head all the time.

john

Yeah.

megan

And Laura says that I ruin songs. [John gasps, then he, the audience, and Megan laugh.] And I would like her to stop telling me that I ruin songs, and just let me live my life. [Megan and the audience laugh.]

john

May I presume that Laura is the elder sister?

laura

I'm the middle child.

john

And in—in age relation to Megan?

laura

Eh, Megan's like a year and a half older than me.

crosstalk

Megan: I'm the oldest. John: Oh, you're older—oh, you're the eldest! Laura: She's the—

laura

We get that a lot, actually.

john

Oh, interesting!

laura

Yeah.

john

Yeah, because you are... uh, an angry, controlling person who wants to—

laura

Well... [Everyone laughs, including Laura.]

john

Who resents your sister's joy! [More laughter.] You resent her freedom to move through the world happily and without the need to be the good one all the time.

laura

Those are not—

john

That's why I pegged you for the older sister, but—

laura

Those are not the words I would choose.

john

No. No. You're just a middle child.

laura

Yes.

john

So—

laura

Very much so.

john

So alright, I understand. How does Megan "ruin" songs?

laura

I'd like to point out, for the record, that Megan does have a beautiful singing voice. Megan sings like a bird, she harmonizes, it's beautiful. So when she's singing for real, it's a beautiful thing! But then all of a sudden, she'll just— [Laura blows raspberries, Megan and the audience laugh. Megan continues laughing quietly.] Or change the words, or like, make fun of it, and so then it just grinds my gears! I'm like, "Why can't you just either sing the beautiful, normal words, [stifling laughter] or—or just sit in silence?" [Audience and Megan laugh.]

crosstalk

Megan: Well—and then—[laughs]. Jesse: Have you ever considered she might be singing a song by the Fat Boys, in which case going— [The audience and one or both litigants laugh as Jesse briefly beatboxes, similar to the raspberry sound.] Jesse: —would be perfectly appropriate!

john

How ya doing, Linda? Good?

linda

Good!

john

Fantastic.

jesse

Yeah. [Audience cheers and laughs.]

crosstalk

Jesse: Still there. She's down there steady plankin'. John: Megan? Megan: [Laughing] Yes?

john

At s—at one point, you were going to speak. [He and Megan laugh.] Let's go back to that.

megan

Okay. Um, well, also part of the problem is that I don't even have to say anything before I ruin a song for Laura. And I do try to be conscious of certain songs that she is sensitive to, or— [Audience laughter.]

john

What songs in particular?

megan

So Laura is an aerialist performer—

john

Oh! [Scattered cheers.]

megan

—so if she is going to be doing an aerialist—

jesse

Wait, hold on. A Judge John Hodgman litigant with circus skills?! [One or both litigants laugh. Swell of cheering and applause from the audience.]

laura

Yes.

jesse

[Stifling laughter] Do you also like board games, Ma'am? [Litigants and audience laugh.]

laura

Very much so.

jesse

Yeah.

megan

So you know, if it's something that is meaningful for Laura I try very hard, my best, to not sing different words or sing in a goofy voice. But I don't realize that I'm doing it most of the time, which is the issue, is I—I don't—I can't always help myself.

john

I'm sorry, what does this have to do with aerial... artistry?

megan

If it's a song that she's performing to...

john

Oh, I see.

megan

...then she will say "Don't sing to this song. That's the only thing I'll think about while I'm in the air is you singing the weird way of the song," so... [laughs].

john

Do you—before I ask what the song—well, what is the song?

megan

Well, she's done several performances. She's done one to Sylvan Esso and [hesitantly] Hoosier?

laura

Hozier.

john

These are nonsense syllables. [The audience and the litigants laugh.] This is not—this is not Huey Lewis and the News: Sports. I got there, Jesse.

jesse

Yeah.

laura

Sylvan Esso—Durhamites know what Sylvan Esso is. [Litigants laugh, audience cheers and applauds.]

john

Uh, what is—[stifling laughter] what is the song?

laura

So it's called "Come Down," and it's one of their lesser-known ones, and it's a capella, and it's just Amelia singing over some weird, like, vibey electronic stuff.

john

Cool.

laura

So it's super soft and sweet. And so the last thing I need when I'm 18 feet in the air, doing this very serious piece, is Megan in the back of my head going [cartoonishly wavery and intense] "Coooome doooown!" [Megan and the audience laugh.] I'm just...

jesse

[Stifling laughter] So you—you mostly do Scott Stapp voice? [Audience and litigants laugh.]

megan

Honestly, I don't know! 'Cause I don't even always realize that I'm doing it. She'll just be like, "Megan, you're doing it!"

john

Megan says that you have a beautiful voice, but that you sometimes go [blows raspberries] and whatever. [One of the litigants laughs.] How do you res—is that true? And are you—are you moving into weird voice on purpose? Obviously we're gonna hear demo of good voice and weird voice in a moment. [One of the litigants laughs.] But I just—like, what's going on?

megan

Definitely there is a combination. And like I said, I don't even always realize that I'm doing it. So I'm probably doing it by myself in the car. Yeah, I'll be either just singing on purpose and if either I don't know the words or if there's a natural pause in the song, and I'm like, "This needs a little rapping in the middle." [Audience laughs.] Um, you know, then something comes out.

john

I can guarantee that's not true. [Litigants and audience laugh.]

laura

We did submit some evidence, I don't know if it's available.

john

Oh, yes! I—of course. Let's see.

megan

But it's not... [Audience and litigants laugh.]

john

Let the record show that there is a beautiful photo of Megan and Laura levitating. [More laughter.]

laura

At Long Island.

john

An incredible—you're an incredible aerialist. You're doing that without a trapeze or anything.

crosstalk

John: No—no stilts or whatever. Laura: That's right, yeah. Megan: Yeah, she's holding me up. [One of the litigants laughs.] John: Right. That's—yeah. Laura: Yeah. Right.

laura

There is a picture of Megan—this is not this one, unfortunately, although—

john

Next slide, then? [Pause.] [Audience and litigants laugh.] This is a picture of someone stealing—

crosstalk

Laura: That's Megan! Megan: That's me!

john

That's Megan stealing an hors d'oeuvre, or a cookie?

laura

A cookie at our sister's wedding. And this demonstrates Megan's... just, commitment to whimsy. [Audience laughter.] And—

john

I thought it was gonna be lack of impulse control, but sure. [Audience and Megan laugh.]

crosstalk

Laura: Well, yes! And—she wanted to be— John: It's kind of the same thing.

laura

Correct. Yes. [Megan laughs.]

john

Right.

laura

That's actually also not the picture I was thinking—well, let's see. It's coming. [Pause.] Oh, that's—[laughs].

john

Oh. [Audience, litigants, and Jesse laugh.]

jesse

Hey! Look at this, a dog dressed as a goshdarn rainbow! [More laughter.]

crosstalk

John: Linda, are you okay? Jesse: Ohhh, but he's also dressed as the Joker from the movie The Jokerrr! [More laughter.]

jesse

He doesn't care for society's conventions! [More laughter. Someone claps a few times.]

john

What does this represent?

laura

So this is my dog Quincy. He's a ten-year-old toy poodle rescue.

john

Lovely.

laura

And it demonstrates that I too have a sense of whimsy! And I'm not a... whatever you called me at the beginning. [Audience and Megan laugh.] Controlling...

john

Obsessed with control and resentful of younger, freer people because— [Both litigants and the audience laugh.] —you lived your entire life under the pressure to be the good one. [Someone in the audience cheers.]

laura

...Yeah, my dog's a rainbow! [The litigants, Jesse, and the audience laugh.]

jesse

John, she's got a point! The dog's a rainbow!

john

Methinks thou doth dress your dog up too much. [Litigants and audience laugh.] And is there any other evidence that you wish to share?

megan

There—there, uh—

john

No, we don't—

laura

Oh, this—okay. There actually was a picture of Megan singing "Wings Beneath My Wings" as she made a hole-in-one in mini-golf. [Audience laughter.]

john

Yeah!

laura

So, but...

john

Well, a picture of that would not be as good as... [Megan laughs.]

laura

[Laughing] You're right. Let's do it.

john

...Megan singing it now. Obviously you care very much about each other.

megan

Yes.

john

Right?

laura

Yes. Yes.

john

And you spend a lot of time together.

laura

Yes.

john

Or else this wouldn't be an issue.

laura

[Laughing] Right.

john

If you were estranged, you wouldn't—you would never hear her sing... sing again. And if I were to rule in your favor, that's exactly what's gonna happen. [Audience and litigants laugh.] You'll never hear her sing again.

laura

There's gotta be a middle ground.

john

So—no! No, middle child, no middle ground! [More laughter. John also laughs.] You're the one who brought this case—no.

crosstalk

Megan: I did. John: You are. Alright. Laura: I did, yes. [Laughs.]

john

So. Sing to your sister "Wind Beneath My Wings," and we'll decide!

megan

Sure. Okay. Uh—ahem. [Laura laughs quietly.]

john

That was a total fake throat-clear, by the way. [Audience and litigants laugh.]

megan

[Laughing] That was—

john

"Heh-hem. Heh-hem. [Singing] Mi, mi, mi, mi, mi! Miii, miii! Mm! [Vocal exercise variant of a raspberry]! Mm! [Singing] Open pit barbecue sauce!" [Speaking] Alright? [John, the litigants, and the audience laugh.]

megan

[Megan sings genuinely, vocally straight-faced.] Did I ever tell you you're my heeerooo? You're everything I wish I couuuld beee. I could fly higher than an eeeagle. 'Cause you are the wind beneath my wings! [Someone in the audience shouts something not quite clear but positive-sounding, possibly "Linda." Someone laughs. Audience cheers and applauds.]

jesse

Nailed it.

john

Even—even the woman who is planking managed to applaud! [Audience and the litigants laugh.] I do not understand how you could be ruining any song!

crosstalk

Megan: That wasn't a ruining example. [Laughs.] Linda: Okay—okay— John: I—

laura

How about I'll sing the song, and then you ruin it? [The litigants and the audience laugh.]

john

Alright. I'll allow it. Quickly now.

laura

[Singing] Did I ever tell you you're my heeerooo—

megan

You're my hero, baby, yeah! [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.]

jesse

Oh, wow. [Stifling laughter] Nailed it again!

john

I find—

jesse

Reverse nailed it!

john

I find in Megan's favor. Sing whatever you want.

megan

Yes!

john

This is the sound of a— [Several live gavel bangs as the audience cheers and applauds.]

jesse

Please welcome Ali and Karen!

john

Ali and Karen, please come to the stage. Oh! But 'tis the season of giving! [Laughs.]

crosstalk

Ali: 'Tis! John: You have also brought something to the court.

ali

I sure have.

john

And... probably not drugs, right? [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.]

ali

Not this time, sorry. [Laughs.]

john

Oh, alright. Who seeks justice before the court, please?

ali

I seek justice before the court.

john

And you are...?

ali

I'm Ali.

john

Ali, and you must be Karen.

karen

Yes.

john

Ali, what is the nature of the dispute and the reason for these two beautiful cakes out here?

ali

My favorite sister in the whole world, and I have a whole bunch—[laughs] I love her so much—

john

Wait a minute, what?

jesse

[Laughing] We're recording this! [Audience laughs.]

ali

Yeah, no, I have a whole bunch. [John and/or Jesse laughs.] I would do anything for her on her birthday.

john

Mm-hm.

ali

And she has become—she is very inflexible about the cake that she wants.

john

She's very inflexible about the cake that she wants.

ali

Yeah.

john

What cake do you want?

karen

Yellow cake from a box with chocolate frosting from a can. [John and the audience laugh. Some cheering and applause.]

john

That's a classic! You understand. Ali. That's a classic.

ali

It's a disgusting classic. [Laughs.]

john

Yeah, but it's Karen's birthday!

karen

It's not Funfetti.

ali

I understand that. [Audience laughter.] But I can make any cake! And my cakes are so delicious that she has told me on other occasions that she would invite the cake into her marriage, and her husband's okay with it! [Ali and the audience laugh.]

john

It—she would bring the cake into her marital bed?

ali

The—perhaps.

karen

No, I would marry the cake and have an extra spouse. [John and the audience laugh.]

ali

Yeah! [Laughs.]

john

A spouse cake!

ali

Yeah. Sister cakes! [One or both litigants laugh.]

john

Karen, is Ali a really good baker?

karen

She is.

john

Okay. Does Ali make you cakes other times of the year?

karen

Sometimes.

john

What kinds of cakes does she make?

karen

She makes a lot of different things. Chocolate tortes. She doesn't always make cakes, but she makes a lot of dinners. I don't ever cook anything, so if there's a family event, a lot of the cooking comes from her, and she's a very good cook.

john

Right. And you brought some evidence to show the court here?

ali

I did.

john

Let's take a look on the screen. Okay. This is some David Cronenberg-ian body horror, I believe. I, uh... [Audience, litigants, and Jesse laugh.]

ali

This is—

john

Looks like a writhing mass of wounded flesh... [More laughter.] ...pierced with flaming knives? Uh... I'm just kidding.

ali

Yeah.

john

It's a bird's-eye view of a cake!

ali

Yeah.

john

What kind of cake is it?

ali

That would be the bad cake.

john

That's a Videodrome cake. Why?

ali

Uh, yeah. [She, the audience, and John laugh.]

john

This is—oh, this is the bad cake!

ali

This is the bad cake, yeah.

john

Oh, this is your yellow cake from a box, chocolate frosting from a can—

ali

Yes.

john

—shot from above.

crosstalk

Ali & Karen: Yes.

john

Okay, so, right. And, uh—[laughs] by the way, candles? Very haphazard. Is that part of the deal? Like... [Audience and litigants laugh.]

karen

It's an A for my sister April and a heart.

john

Ohhhhh!

ali

Yeah.

jesse

[Stifling laughter] I mean, sort of.

john

[Laughing] Yeah. [Audience and litigants laugh.]

ali

Yeah. [Laughs.]

john

You could get a little pastry bag and do a little piping and it'll look a lot neater.

ali

Yeah.

karen

I don't own one.

ali

She can't do that. [Both litigants laugh.]

john

Okay. No, I no, but—this is the cake that you made yourself.

karen

Yeah.

john

For your other sister, April.

karen

Yes.

john

Right, okay, gotcha.

karen

Yeah. Yeah.

john

And—your many, many sisters.

crosstalk

Karen: Yeah. Ali: There's a lot. [Laughs.]

john

How many are there?

jesse

Your many less-preferred sisters. [Jesse, one of the litigants, and the audience laugh.]

ali

Yeah.

karen

There's five girls and one boy.

john

Wowie.

karen

Yeah.

john

Alright. So let's go to the next slide, please? This is a dark chocolate cake with raspberries on it. What's the—

ali

It's a chocolate torte.

crosstalk

Ali: With choc— John: A chocolate torte. Oh, pardon me. I apologize. [Audience laughs.] Ali: Yeah. With chocolate ganache.

ali

And fresh raspberries.

john

This is something that you made—

ali

Yes.

john

—Ali, for Karen?

ali

I make it for Karen, and anyone else who wants to enjoy it.

john

Right.

ali

Including you. [Laughs.]

john

It looks very good. Nice work.

ali

Thanks. [Laughs.]

john

It does not look like a David Cronenberg horror movie.

ali

No. [Audience laughter.]

john

I'll say that. Next slide, please? Oh!

ali

Oh.

john

There we go!

ali

That's it. [Audience laughter.]

john

So the evidence is you make beautiful-looking cakes, and they're delicious.

ali

I do.

john

And you want to make your sister a cake for her birthday that is not the junk cake that she desires.

ali

Right.

john

And do you have a birthday coming up any time soon?

karen

No.

john

Okay. [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.]

crosstalk

Ali: She just had one. John: Alright! Jesse: [Stifling laughter] Would you say you have one coming up in the next year or so? John: Yeah! Yeah. [Audience and litigants laugh.] Karen: Yes.

john

I was going to say, "Ali, it seems like case closed! Your sister has stopped aging, so it doesn't matter anyway." [Audience and litigants laugh.]

ali

That's right.

john

For Karen's next birthday, whenever it may be...

ali

Yeah.

john

What cake do you propose to make, instead of her favorite?

ali

Any other cake from scratch. [Ali and some of the audience laugh.] I've offered to make that cake for her from scratch, yellow cake from scratch. Pound cake—

john

Oh, the exact cake!

ali

The exact cake!

crosstalk

John: Okay, now you've got a case! Ali: Yeah. Right. John: Now you've got a case! Ali: Just not from a box. John: To make an exact—right.

john

An exact, from-scratch yellow cake with chocolate frosting. That is not acceptable to you, Karen?

karen

Mm, no.

john

Alright! [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.] Why do you have these two cakes here?

ali

Okay. So that you can taste-test the cakes.

john

Oh—

ali

So you can see the true—yeah.

john

Oh! So you have junk cake and a—and a different—?

ali

Yeah. I have trash cake... and delicious torte. [Ali and the audience laugh.]

john

I normally do not eat sweets. I do not have a sweet tooth, but...

ali

I understand that.

john

I have an alcohol molar. [Audience laughs.]

ali

I know, I—I accounted for that. [Laughs.]

john

Oh, what is this that you're offering me?

ali

This is—this is—

john

Johnnie Walker Blue Label?

ali

This—[laughs].

john

Druuuugs! [Audience and litigants laugh, audience cheers and applauds.] [John sighs happily.] Thank you!

ali

You're welcome.

john

It's a very kind gift, but as this is the season of giving, there you go, child. [Audience and litigants laugh.] Take this whiskey.

ali

Yeah.

john

I'm a man with a mustache, take this whiskey! [More laughter and applause.]

ali

Yeah. Yeah. Alright. [Laughs.]

john

So the cake I'm holding is chocolate torte with raspberries, made by you, Ali.

ali

And chocolate ganache.

john

And choc—I'm—alright.

ali

Yeah.

john

I'm sorry I forgot the ganache. [Ali and the audience laugh.] Again. Maybe this is why your sister doesn't wanna make—have you make one of these cakes! [More laughter.]

ali

Yeah. [Laughs.]

john

[Laughs.] "I hope you're appreciating the dusting of cocoa."

ali

[Stifling laughter] There is dusting of cocoa.

john

[Viciously] Of course there's dusting of cocoa! [Audience and litigants laugh.] [Regular tone] Linda, how you doing? Good.

ali

Yeah. Okay.

john

And this is trash cake.

crosstalk

Ali: Yes, from a box mix. John: This is legit trash cake. Ali: Right. John: Not Ali's take on trash cake.

ali

No.

john

Alright.

ali

Frosting from a can.

jesse

John is inserting the fork into the trash cake. [Audience laughter.]

john

First I'm getting that bite ready.

jesse

Preparing a bite, preparing a raspberry and all. Looks like—that looks like a chocolate ganache to me. [More laughter.]

john

Now, the fact is I'm—I'm actually... you know, on the road you have to be careful about what you eat. I am eating no carbs at this time. So I'm gonna give this to Linda and she'll decide. [Audience cheers and applauds.]

ali

Yeah. [The litigants laugh.] Yeah. Yeah.

jesse

Linda is planking and chewing.

ali

Yeah. [Laughs.] Yeah.

jesse

Hi, Linda. I'm sideline reporter Jesse Thorn. [Audience and litigants laugh. Someone in the audience shouts Linda's name.] [Laughing] She wants the bourbon now! [Everyone laughs. Audience cheers and applauds.]

john

Yeah.

jesse

Linda—

john

No, the ch—I—the child can't give up his bourbon! How dare you? [More laughter.] I'll buy you a drink after the show. Don't worry.

ali

Yeah. [Many people are laughing. Child in the audience says something inaudible.]

john

What did you say, young man? [Child repeats himself.]

jesse

He said—

john

You don't need it? Alright, do you wanna give it to this nice lady?

jesse

After going through this experience...

john

[Laughing] Yeah.

jesse

[Laughing] You'll need it later. [Audience laughs, cheers, and applauds.]

john

Let the record show Linda expertly and swiftly planked over. [Jesse and the audience laugh.] It is not bourbon, technically. It is one of the finest blended whiskeys, and it's very delicious. And I hope you enjoy it.

jesse

[Stifling laughter] She planked over there like nature's greatest planker, the iguana. [Audience laughs.]

ali

Yeah.

john

Alright, Linda. Here is the trash cake. [More laughter, some cheering and applause.]

jesse

Linda, how's that chew? It's going—Linda's doing her chewing now. I wanna give her an opportun—John, can you grab the milk for Linda?

john

That's a good idea. [More laughter.]

ali

Yeah.

jesse

She's gonna have to—[laughs] cleanse her palate here.

john

Is there a straw available? [More laughter.]

ali

Mm-mm. I did not bring one, sorry!

jesse

It's okay, she can drink it while planking! [More laughter.]

john

Producer Hannah, could you come out here? I've only got one hand, I can't open a bottle of milk.

ali

I can open—[laughs].

jesse

Okay.

crosstalk

John: Our producer Hannah Smith, everybody. Jesse: Our producer Hannah Smith, folks! [Audience cheers and applauds.]

jesse

Okay, now Linda is...

john

This is amazing.

jesse

...drinking the milk while planking! [More cheering and applause.]

john

NSP: Never Stop Planking!

jesse

Linda—

john

Jesse, would you hold the microphone to Linda so that I may ask her some questions?

linda

Yes.

john

Linda. Which of those two cakes did you enjoy more?

linda

I'm the wrong person to ask. I will always choose nasty cake over—[laughs]. [Audience and litigants laugh.]

john

Surprise decision from Linda!

linda

Yeah.

john

But that wasn't the ruling. That was just which did she enjoy more?

ali

Yeah.

john

It's subjective.

ali

Mm.

john

Linda happens to be like your sister; she loves trash cake! [Some audience laughter.] This is a beautiful cake. No one can deny this is a beautiful cake. But Linda, in your opinion, on someone's birthday, should they have the trash cake they want? Or the chocolate ganache their sister wants to force on them? [Audience and litigants laugh.]

linda

Trash cake you want. Always. [Audience cheers and applauds.]

john

Trash cake you want, I'm afraid. I'm sorry, Ali. You're a very generous sister, but birthdays are birthdays, after all. [Several live gavel bangs.] I find in Karen's favor. We have a tradition in Swift Justice. The segment cannot end until... the person planking... [Audience laughter.] ...drinks some blended whiskey out of a small bottle. [Audience and litigants laugh.] I don't think you should be—what—can she open that?

jesse

[Laughing] Holy cow! [More laughter, swelling into raucous applause and cheering.] She's opening it with her mouth like an alcoholic iguana!

john

[Shouting/projecting over the applause.] Where's Bridget?! Where's Bridget?! In absentia, I find in Linda's favor! I find in Ali's favor! That's Swift Justice! [Seven live gavel bangs.]

crosstalk

Jesse: Ali, Karen— John: You can stop planking, Madam!

jesse

And the legendary Linda! [Applause and cheering is still going strong.]

john

You may stop! You may stop. Thank you.

jesse

Let's hear it for Linda, ladies and gentlemen! [Applause and cheering redoubles and then the live audio fades out.]

sound effect

[Three gavel bangs.]

promo

Music: Mid-tempo, upbeat music. Jo Firestone: Hi, I'm Jo Firestone. Manolo Moreno: And I'm Manolo Moreno. Jo: And we're the hosts of Dr. Gameshow, which is a podcast where we play games submitted by listeners, regardless of quality or content, with in-studio guests and callers from all over the world! Manolo: And you can win a custom magnet. Jo: A custom magnet! Manolo: Subscribe now to make sure you get our next episode. Jo: What's an example of a game, Manolo? Manolo: "Pokémon or Medication?" Jo: How do you play that? Manolo: You have to guess if something's a Pokémon name— [Next two lines overlapping]

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Jo: Or medication? Manolo: —or a medication. Manolo: First-time listener, if you want to listen to episode highlights and also know how to participate, follow Dr. Gameshow on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Jo: We'd love to hear from you! Manolo: Yeah, it's really fun! Jo: For the whole family! We'll be every other Wednesday starting March 13th, and we're coming to MAX FUN! Manolo: Snorlax. Jo: Pokémon? Manolo: Yes. Jo: Nice!

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Music: Gentle, upbeat piano music. J. Keith van Straaten: Hey everybody, this is J. Keith van Straaten, host of Go Fact Yourself, a live game show here on the Maximum Fun network. On Go Fact Yourself, we take the smartest people we know, and make them look dumb. J. Keith: Paul, by the way, how much do you know about chicken husbandry? Paul F. Tompkins: You gotta give ‘em that grain. J. Keith: Alright! [Audience laughs.] Paul: You gotta give ‘em that grain! J. Keith: And then smart again. J. Keith: What future hall of fame pitcher for the Cleveland Indians became the first active player to enlist— Speaker 1: Bob Feller. J. Keith: —wh—oh. Okay! [Audience laughs again.]

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J. Keith: We’ve got me, co-host Helen Hong, plus celebrity guests and actual surprise experts. J. Keith: Alright, we have an expert on hand for sure. Speaker 2: Is it Allan Havey? J. Keith: Helen, who do we have tonight? Helen Hong: Allan Havey! J. Keith: Allan Havey! [Crowd cheers.] J. Keith: In the coming weeks, you can hear guests like Maria Bamford, Tom Bergeron, Paul F. Tompkins, Janet Varney, and Grant Imahara. Check us out on the first and third Friday of every month, here on the Maximum Fun network. [Music continues for a moment, then ends.]

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[Three gavel bangs.]

jesse

Our thanks to all of the litigants who shared their disputes with us in Durham, North Carolina, and of course all of the folks who came out to the show. We had a great time. I hope that you enjoyed listening to it. This episode recorded by our friend Jeff Bird, native son of San Francisco, and produced by the great Hannah Smith. Jesus Ambrosio is our editor. Follow us on Twitter at @JesseThorn and @hodgman. Hashtag your Judge John Hodgman Tweets #JJHo! And check out the Maximum Fun subreddit—that's at MaximumFun.Reddit.com—to chat about this week's episode. We're on Instagram at @judgejohnhodgman; make sure to follow us there for evidence and other fun stuff. We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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[Three gavel bangs.]

music

A cheerful guitar chord.

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MaximumFun.org.

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Comedy and culture.

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Artist owned—

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—audience supported.

About the show

Have your pressing issues decided by Famous Minor Television Personality John Hodgman, Certified Judge. If you’d like John Hodgman to solve your pressing issue, please contact us HERE.

Follow @judgejohnhodgman on Instagram to view evidence from the cases tried in court.

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